Dunblane Primary Shootings.

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Craig Cockburn

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
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In article <4i6id2$e...@crab.spider.co.uk>
bri...@spider.co.uk "Brian Russell" writes:

> Latest reports indicate that 13 5-6 year olds were killed along with
> their teacher and the gunman himself. The shootings happened at 9.30
> this morning in the school gym. The school is Dunblane primary, Doune
> Rd, Dunblane.
>

I attended that school for 7 years and my brother has two children
there who survived the incident. I lived on the Doune Rd for 18 years,
and the rest of the family still live in Dunblane so the whole tragic
incident is exceptionally close to heart. My father went down this
morning to pick up the children and said the whole scene was horrific.
I'll be heading over tonight to lend what support I can.

--
Craig Cockburn (pronounced "coburn"), Edinburgh, Scotland
Web pages at http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~craig/ comments welcome
Sgri\obh thugam 'sa Gha\idhlig ma 'se do thoil e.

apartmentsand cats

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
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Does anyone have any information to add to the news that 12
children are feared dead, and another 8/9 are injured after a
lone gunman entered the school at Dunnon Road in Dunblane?

--
Kate

Graham McIntosh

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
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In article <4i6co9$g7v$1...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>,
10132...@CompuServe.COM says...

The following link may be of interest to anyone outside the regular TV
broadcast range. The extract is from the following link:

http://www-edin.easynet.co.uk/scotnews/top.htm

"16 Children Murdered At Dunblane School

16 CHILDREN AND A TEACHER were left dead after a crazed gunman
broke in to Dunblane Primary School at 9:30am, carrying four hand guns
including an automatic pistol. After the carnage was over the man
killed
himself.

Twelve children are being treated for injuries in hospital. Three are
in a critical
condition.

The man has been named as Thomas Hamilton, 43, from Stirling. The man,
a
bachelor who lived alone had been asked to leave his position in the
1970s
after complains. It is not known if he had any previous connection with
the
primary school.

The children who died were between 4 and 6 years of age. One of the
adults
who was killed was a teacher. The killing took place in the school gym.

Michael Forsyth, Secretary of State, broke off engagements to fly to
the scene.

The Queen has sent her condolences to the bereaved families.

Dunblane is a normally tranquil and picturesque town in central
Scotland, 10
miles north of Stirling. It has been described as "the gateway to the
Highlands.

Britain has strict gun control laws in common with other European
countries
and this type of crime is rare. This is the worst incident of its type
in Scotland."

Graham


Alvin Chung

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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This is indeed a tragedy. My question is: I thought UK has pretty
strict gun control law, so how did the gunman get all those shotguns and
sub-machine guns?

Craig Cockburn (cr...@scot.demon.co.uk)
wrote: > In article <4i6id2$e...@crab.spider.co.uk>
> bri...@spider.co.uk "Brian Russell" writes:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Chung
Carleton University

Email address: ach...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------

David W. Dyke

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
to

The news of this senseless act of violence which ended the lives of innocent
children made me feel physically sick. I cannot even begin to imagine how
the people of Dunblane are feeling this morning, especially those parents
who lost their children.

Our thoughts are with the community of Dunblane this morning.

Yours,

David W. Dyke

dyk...@eee.bham.ac.uk

PS A quick message to the media - please leave the people of Dunblane to
grieve in peace. They need support at this time, not journalists and
cameramen.

gordon....@comlab.ox.ac.uk

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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In <4i8va3$h...@sun4.bham.ac.uk>, dyk...@eee.bham.ac.uk (David W. Dyke) writes:
>
>The news of this senseless act of violence which ended the lives of innocent
>children made me feel physically sick. I cannot even begin to imagine how
>the people of Dunblane are feeling this morning, especially those parents
>who lost their children.
>
>Our thoughts are with the community of Dunblane this morning.
>
>PS A quick message to the media - please leave the people of Dunblane to
> grieve in peace. They need support at this time, not journalists and
> cameramen.

And perhaps net aware people may not want to stumble across comment
in this "media"?

Steve Howie

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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Alvin Chung (ach...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
: This is indeed a tragedy. My question is: I thought UK has pretty

: strict gun control law, so how did the gunman get all those shotguns and
: sub-machine guns?

He didn't have shotguns or sub-machine guns. He had 3 handguns and one
semi-automatic pistol.

The UK has some of the strictest gun control regulations around. They're
trying to figure out how he managed to get these guns. He was a member of
a local shooting club apparently, so the police are trying to focus on
what went wrong to allow him to make off with these weapons.

Makes no difference what he used. 17 innocent lives have been snuffed out
for no reason at all. My heart goes out to everyone in the town. The whole
thing just sickened me.

Scotty
=================================================================
Steve Howie Email: sho...@uoguelph.ca
NetNews and Listserv Admin. Phone: (519) 824-4120 x2556
Computing and Communications Svcs. Fax: (519) 763-6143
University of Guelph

If it's not Scottish its CRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPP
=================================================================


Susan & David Giffen

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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ach...@chat.carleton.ca (Alvin Chung) wrote:

As the mother of four small children, i was shocked and deeply
saddened that such a thing could occur. My heartfelt sympathies
are with those so closely affected by this tragedy. I am in Canada
and the news of this has brought tears to my eyes.
HEATHERLI


>This is indeed a tragedy. My question is: I thought UK has pretty
>strict gun control law, so how did the gunman get all those shotguns and
>sub-machine guns?

>Craig Cockburn (cr...@scot.demon.co.uk)

Kevin McCord

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
to
apartmentsand cats <10132...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:

>Does anyone have any information to add to the news that 12
>children are feared dead, and another 8/9 are injured after a
>lone gunman entered the school at Dunnon Road in Dunblane?

>--
>Kate
Kate,
FYI, this atrocity is the number one news item here in Australia, both
on the TV, and is front page in the newspapers also....
Deeply saddened.


Alan Blacklock

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
to
It is a complete and utter tragedy that the system did not have
enough checks and balances to prevent this from happening. My
initial anger was directed at the Police who should have the
nouse to put two and two together and say that there is a group
of people who should not own firearms, 'just in case' and for
the good of society they will be monitored.

Words cannot really express the sense of loss and grief being
experienced. Our family wish to extend our condolences to the
families, school mates and the town.

Alan


Beth Kerman

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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To Craig Cockburn:


My personal condolences to you Craig. My heart goes out to all
in Dunblane. Any killing is ghastly but such senseless slaying of little
children is incomprehensible.
There aren't any words to convey what I'm feeling at the moment.
As with most Scots the world over I just wish there was something I could
do to help. If I could I would outlaw all guns on this entire planet!


Beth

Chris Engel

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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Our thoughts and prayers are with the bereaved, the victims, those
involved and the community as a whole.
Nothing can reverse the tragedy, no recrimination or resentment
appropriate.
There are not even any lessons to be learned other than to treasure and
protect life and live each day to the full

Chris

Boudicca

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
to
Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:


>
>I attended that school for 7 years and my brother has two children
>there who survived the incident. I lived on the Doune Rd for 18 years,
>and the rest of the family still live in Dunblane so the whole tragic
>incident is exceptionally close to heart. My father went down this
>morning to pick up the children and said the whole scene was horrific.
>I'll be heading over tonight to lend what support I can.
>

To Craig, and all the children and their families:

My heart goes out to all of you. I live on an island near Seattle,
Washington (US), with about the same population as Dunblane, and have
a son in the kindergarten here, so when I saw the headlines yesterday
it hit me really hard. I wish there was I could do than express my
sorrow and outrage and my deepest sympathy. Words cannot express....

Heidi Weispfenning
Boudicca....Queen of the Iceni!
son...@eskimo.com

Ian Brown

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
to
> This is indeed a tragedy. My question is: I thought UK has pretty
> strict gun control law, so how did the gunman get all those shotguns and
> sub-machine guns?
>
> Alvin Chung
> Carleton University
> ach...@chat.carleton.ca

You are right it is a tragedy and our thoughts are with the whole village
of Dunblane at this time but especially those that have lost ones so
young. At so early a time after the event I am sure many in the village
will find it difficult to see where and how they can go forward.
Hopefully with support and as time passes they will pick up the pieces
and with the help of the young ones around move forward again.

To comment: At this moment according to the press reports the man had
hand guns (4). These like most lawful weapons are permissible in the UK
so long as the individual shows and can prove he/she has a reason for
them. A good enough reason is that he/she is a member of a gun club and
uses them for target practice.
The problem for the Police is that they must have evidence to refuse a
licence. Evidence that will stand up in court if the individual appeals
to the Sheriff (court). It is not enough to base the refusal on
speculation only.
The difficulty is striking a balance between the legitimate enthusiast
and the person who is suffering, but not always showing, signs of some
obscure mental problem.


Ian B
iab...@cix.compulink.co.uk

Chris Engel

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
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Initial suggestions are that the killer was a member of a local gun club.
Membership of such a club as a probationer followed by approval of both
club committee and local police permits the member to acquire a hand-gun.
AIUI personal weapons are not normally permitted to be removed from the
club.

Having explained the formal procedure, anyone of Hamilton's mentality and
state of mind is not going to be deterred by regulations. Guns can be
obtained and kept illegally despite our strict gun laws.

Chris

John Hammell

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
to
IT Room - St George's School for Girls

> ach...@chat.carleton.ca (Alvin Chung) wrote:
>
> As the mother of four small children, i was shocked and deeply
> saddened that such a thing could occur. My heartfelt sympathies
> are with those so closely affected by this tragedy. I am in Canada
> and the news of this has brought tears to my eyes.
> HEATHERLI
>
>

> >This is indeed a tragedy. My question is: I thought UK has pretty
> >strict gun control law, so how did the gunman get all those shotguns and
> >sub-machine guns?
>

> >Craig Cockburn (cr...@scot.demon.co.uk)
> >wrote: > In article <4i6id2$e...@crab.spider.co.uk>
> >> bri...@spider.co.uk "Brian Russell" writes:
>
> >> > Latest reports indicate that 13 5-6 year olds were killed along with
> >> > their teacher and the gunman himself. The shootings happened at 9.30
> >> > this morning in the school gym. The school is Dunblane primary, Doune
> >> > Rd, Dunblane.
> >> >
>

> >> I attended that school for 7 years and my brother has two children
> >> there who survived the incident. I lived on the Doune Rd for 18 years,
> >> and the rest of the family still live in Dunblane so the whole tragic
> >> incident is exceptionally close to heart. My father went down this
> >> morning to pick up the children and said the whole scene was horrific.
> >> I'll be heading over tonight to lend what support I can.
>

> >> --
> >> Craig Cockburn (pronounced "coburn"), Edinburgh, Scotland
> >> Web pages at http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~craig/ comments welcome
> >> Sgri\obh thugam 'sa Gha\idhlig ma 'se do thoil e.
>
>
>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Alvin Chung
> >Carleton University
>
> >Email address: ach...@chat.carleton.ca
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

As I understand it, he had four handguns. Nothing else.

John G. Hammell
IT ROOM


Lesley Robertson

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
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ach...@chat.carleton.ca (Alvin Chung) wrote:
>This is indeed a tragedy. My question is: I thought UK has pretty
>strict gun control law, so how did the gunman get all those shotguns and
>sub-machine guns?

He had 4 handguns - that's all it took. We'd all like to know how/why he
had a permit to have a gun.
This Dundee lass is still too disbelieving to think of anything useful to
say, except that like the rest of the world, my thoughts are with the
folk of Dunblane.
Lesley Robertson

hell...@cc.weber.edu

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
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In article <314831d9...@204.122.16.44>, son...@eskimo.com (Boudicca) writes...
>Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>


so sorry, so sorry....

HME (in utah)


Bryan J. Maloney

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
to
In article <4ibh8r$m...@mo6.rc.tudelft.nl>, Lesley Robertson
<l.a.ro...@stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:

> He had 4 handguns - that's all it took. We'd all like to know how/why he
> had a permit to have a gun.


In New York city, it is illegal for non-police to have a gun.
Nevertheless, it ranks among the top sites of handgun-caused death and
crimes with guns.

Alan Blacklock

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Mar 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/18/96
to
Craig Cockburn wrote:
stuff deleted....

The shutters of the world's press
> going off photographing the poor policeman doing his job guarding the
> school was an obscene intrusion into a supposed silence.

I appreciate your sentiments here but as an exile I need the pix
to help me to deal with the siyuation and the grief....having
said that your word picture that follows is quite eloquent and
in a way substitutes for the lack of pix at this end

The entire
> pavement from one entrance to the other is a sea of flowers from every
> corner of the globe. There is another pile of toys which have now been
> moved into the gym and another pile of flowers at the cathedral. Even
> the minister nearly broke into tears and the newsreader today wasn't
> far off either. The whole of Britain seemed to stop for a minute,
> even cars on the high street just stopped where they were in the middle
> of the road in respect.
>
> We went to the cathedral for the service. It was probably the most
> touching moment I will ever experience. Utterly heartbreaking.
>

There are a lot of people around the world who are with you
partly due to the coverage given.

Alan


scotr...@ag.net

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Mar 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/21/96
to

>To Craig, and all the children and their families:
>
>My heart goes out to all of you. I live on an island near Seattle,
>Washington (US), with about the same population as Dunblane, and have
>a son in the kindergarten here, so when I saw the headlines yesterday
>it hit me really hard. I wish there was I could do than express my
>sorrow and outrage and my deepest sympathy. Words cannot express....
>
>Heidi Weispfenning
>Boudicca....Queen of the Iceni!
>son...@eskimo.com

>To Craig, and all the children and their families:
>
>My heart goes out to all of you. I live on an island near Seattle,
>Washington (US), with about the same population as Dunblane, and have
>a son in the kindergarten here, so when I saw the headlines yesterday
>it hit me really hard. I wish there was I could do than express my
>sorrow and outrage and my deepest sympathy. Words cannot express....
>
>Heidi Weispfenning
>Boudicca....Queen of the Iceni!
>son...@eskimo.com


If you would like to send an e-mail message to the families
and people of Dunblane check out this website:
http://www.catalyst-highlands.co.uk/
They have been collecting e-mail messages which they are
going to print out a send to Dunblane. They also have
information about a trust fund being set up through the
Bank of Scotland.


Craig Cockburn

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Mar 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/21/96
to
Ann an sgriobhainn <mtBYLDAx...@scot.demon.co.uk>, sgriobh Craig
Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk>.....

The last of the funerals was today, and included the teacher who died
trying to save the lives of the children in her care. It was in Dunblane
Cathedral, the scene of Sunday's highly moving service. A limited number
of the press were allowed.

By contrast, a pauper's funeral took place for the murderer yesterday
in Dundee. He had to be cremated as a grave would have been desecrated.
He had to be cremated far from Central region as the only one in Central
Region (where Dunblane is) refused to accept his body. Only his close
family and one close friend attended. His body was taken to the
cremotorium in an unmarked transit van accompanied by an unmarked police
car. Noone spoke a word in his favour at the service.

My parent tell me it is difficult living on the Doune Road, as they are
just a few houses up from the school and have to pass it regularly. The
flowers outside are almost blocking the entrance, and stretch down the
road, past the other entrance and continue for about half a mile
covering most of the width of the pavement (=sidewalk for US readers).
I wonder what the children will be feeling when they pass these flowers
on the way to school tomorrow when it reopens for the first time after
the massacre. It will just be a one day week this week for them, and
four next week as then they'll be on holiday for Good Friday and Easter.

After Monday, the tragedy of the massacre diminished in the media but
has now translated into a call for tighter gun control

--
Craig Cockburn (pronounced "coburn"), Edinburgh, Scotland
Web pages at http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~craig/ comments welcome

Sgri\obh thugam 'sa Gha\idhlig ma 'se do thoil e..

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