a word my Granny used to use.......
Graham McDermott
I was thinking the other day about some words my Gran and mum used to use
that
I never use today or at least rarely use. The phrase that popped into my
head (which I
have no idea how to spell) is hallakaplunk Tuesday. She used to use it when
she
meant a job was never going to get done or when something was to be deferred
indefinitely.....
eg:
Thats going to happen next hallakaplunk Tuesday.
Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into" eg.
"Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
Any other words that people remember that are rarely used? Perhaps even
better does
anyone remember their relatives using these phrases/words?
--
GMcD.
Dave Biggar
Graham McDermott wrote:
>
> I was thinking the other day about some words my Gran and mum used
> to use that I never use today or at least rarely use. The phrase
> that popped into my head (which I have no idea how to spell) is
> hallakaplunk Tuesday. She used to use it when she meant a job was
> never going to get done or when something was to be deferred
> indefinitely.....
> eg:
> Thats going to happen next hallakaplunk Tuesday.
>
"helluvalongtime".
> Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into"
> eg. "Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
>
Yes, my grandmother would say what sounded to me like
"Gang ben the room" meaning that I should go (through) into the
next room.
I have long been curious about a word my father sometimes used
to refer to the kitchen sink, sounded like "jawbox". Does that
ring any bells?
My mother used the expression "backside-foremost". My friends
laughed when I used it. Perfectly good expression -- but I
wondered where she got it.
db
Charles Ellson
dave....@sympatico.ca "Dave Biggar" wrote:
>
<snip>
> I have long been curious about a word my father sometimes used
> to refer to the kitchen sink, sounded like "jawbox". Does that
> ring any bells?
>
Concise Scots Dictionary:-
"a sink in a kitchen or on a common stair" (19-- Central Scotland and
Ulster)
jaw &c, ja - "pour abruptly, splash, dash, spill" (16-- now local NE-Uls)
jaup - [similar definition] (onomatopaeic)
> My mother used the expression "backside-foremost". My friends
> laughed when I used it. Perfectly good expression -- but I
> wondered where she got it.
>
A horizontally arranged and polite version of "arse upwards" ?
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson:E-mail charlesATellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
connochies
Graham McDermott <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into" eg.
> "Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
>
> Any other words that people remember that are rarely used? Perhaps even
> better does
> anyone remember their relatives using these phrases/words?
The word "ben" is still pretty widely used and understood, though I've never
heard "hallakaplunk"......an interesting one!
>
> --
> GMcD.
>
>
connochies
Dave Biggar <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:39EE5DBE...@sympatico.ca...
>
> >
> I have long been curious about a word my father sometimes used
> to refer to the kitchen sink, sounded like "jawbox". Does that
> ring any bells?
>
> My mother used the expression "backside-foremost". My friends
> laughed when I used it. Perfectly good expression -- but I
> wondered where she got it.
again that wonderful expression is still in use for "the wrong way round"
she got it from general usage.
>
> db
Mike MacKinnon
connochies <co...@conno.greatxscape.net> wrote in message
news:8sm2m5$b5q$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
I still use 'backside foremost' when referring to something the wrong way
round. Another one my mother used to use was 'Anichers midden', cf: 'This
room is like Anichers Midden!' Any ideas?
Mike
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Dave Biggar
Charles Ellson wrote:
>
> On Thursday, in article <39EE5DBE...@sympatico.ca>
> dave....@sympatico.ca "Dave Biggar" wrote:
> <snip>
> > I have long been curious about a word my father sometimes used
> > to refer to the kitchen sink, sounded like "jawbox". Does that
> > ring any bells?
> >
> Concise Scots Dictionary:-
>
> "a sink in a kitchen or on a common stair" (19-- Central Scotland and
> Ulster)
> jaw &c, ja - "pour abruptly, splash, dash, spill" (16-- now local NE-Uls)
> jaup - [similar definition] (onomatopaeic)
Thanks for that. But doesn't sound onomatopoeic to me :)
(Lanarkshire, pre 1900)
>
> > My mother used the expression "backside-foremost". My friends
> > laughed when I used it. Perfectly good expression -- but I
> > wondered where she got it.
> >
> A horizontally arranged and polite version of "arse upwards" ?
> --
I'm familiar with "arse backwards".
db
junk...@my-deja.com
"Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Any other words that people remember that are rarely used?
There was a letter in "The Herald" the other day about the word
'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
word or something I had just made up?
Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
newsgroup.
--
'I'm playing all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right
order'
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Haggisman
> In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
> experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
> software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
> what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
> word or something I had just made up?
>
> Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
> make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
> newsgroup.
>
There's a word I heard used all the time "hine" - used to emphasize
distance.
As an example, if someone was to ask you where a town was (and it
happened to be some distance), you'd point in the general direction and
reply with something like
"It's awa o'er that way, hine, hine awa"
all the while you'd be waving your arms in the general direction :)
Kind of hard to get a real meaning to the word, but it was used all the
time in Aberdeen and Morayshire when I was growing up
Scotty
LVKiltie8703
>From: "connochies" co...@conno.greatxscape.net
>Date: 10/18/00 11:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8sm2m6$b5q$2...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
were born on 1888,so you can get the vintage. I heard them growing up in Canada
in the early 30's.The backside-foremost expression was generally heard at
Halloween time when mother would put clothes on backwards to act like a
costume, since we didn't have money to buy a costume. The jawbucks was like
you've already stated the kitchen sink or the sewer like in the basement of the
house. Bye for now & Best regards from this old-timer. Charles Hamilton Leitch.
Auld Bob Peffers
"Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
everyday use. Comes from But and Ben. The old two roomed houses were But(t)
and ben. The but was the main room, (kitchen, dining, and bed room). and the
ben, (ben the hoose), the second bedroom or perhaps the best room. In the
ploughman's row the, *butt*, butted against the house next door. Ben,
though, came to mean through as in, *come awa ben*. The miners in Fife also
used the expression to mean going into the mine or pit.
--
Auld Bob Peffers,
*The Eck's Files* http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk/
Auld Bob Peffers
>
> Dave Biggar <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:39EE5DBE...@sympatico.ca...
> >
> > >
> > I have long been curious about a word my father sometimes used
> > to refer to the kitchen sink, sounded like "jawbox". Does that
> > ring any bells?
gush, dash, spill, surge so I suppose they got it from that.
> >
> > My mother used the expression "backside-foremost". My friends
> > laughed when I used it. Perfectly good expression -- but I
> > wondered where she got it.
>
really explains itself.
> again that wonderful expression is still in use for "the wrong way round"
> she got it from general usage.
>
>
> >
> > db
>
>
>
>
not realise they are speaking Scots and think these words are just slang
English. It comes as a surprise to some of them if you tell them the word(s)
are in the Scots dictionary.
Auld Bob Peffers
"Mike MacKinnon" <MMacK...@pgpower.com> wrote in message
news:CzxH5.7019$44.2...@news.iol.ie...> news:8sm2m5$b5q$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> round. Another one my mother used to use was 'Anichers midden', cf: 'This
> room is like Anichers Midden!' Any ideas?
>
> Mike
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
in a right old mess. It was/is well used in the Lothians and Fife. I'm not
sure about anywhere else. Who the Anicker was that had the famous, (or
infamous), midden I have never been able to find out.
Auld Bob Peffers
"Haggisman" <hagg...@foobar.com> wrote in message
news:PM0003740...@scotty.uoguelph.ca...
> junk...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> > "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
> > experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
> > software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
> > what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
> > word or something I had just made up?
> >
> > Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
> > make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
> > newsgroup.
> >
>
> There's a word I heard used all the time "hine" - used to emphasize
> distance.
>
> As an example, if someone was to ask you where a town was (and it
> happened to be some distance), you'd point in the general direction and
> reply with something like
>
> "It's awa o'er that way, hine, hine awa"
>
> all the while you'd be waving your arms in the general direction :)
>
> Kind of hard to get a real meaning to the word, but it was used all the
> time in Aberdeen and Morayshire when I was growing up
>
> Scotty
and Borders and does mean far away.
Haggisman
> emphasize
>> distance.
>>
>> As an example, if someone was to ask you where a town was (and it
>> happened to be some distance), you'd point in the general direction
> and
>> reply with something like
>>
>> "It's awa o'er that way, hine, hine awa"
>>
>> all the while you'd be waving your arms in the general direction :)
>>
>> Kind of hard to get a real meaning to the word, but it was used all
> the
>> time in Aberdeen and Morayshire when I was growing up
>>
>> Scotty
> Frae Auld Bob Peffers:It's, *hyne*, and was in general usage in the
> Lothians
> and Borders and does mean far away.
> --
Hmmm .. I aye thocht it wis "hine" up in the north east, min.. I'll
check fan I gang hame. :)
Scotty
Thomson McFarlane
> round. Another one my mother used to use was 'Anichers midden', cf: 'This
> room is like Anichers Midden!' Any ideas?
>
A favourite of my mother's is that.
Thomson
David A. Allan
"Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into" eg.
> "Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
Still used by all of my family members (in Forfar) today...and I suspect by
a great deal of other Scots speakers in Scotland too.
ISTR there was a thread a few months back on a similar topic, where someone
explained the origins, which were from "but an ben", ie a two-roomed
'cotterhoose'. ;-)
connochies
> > Frae Auld Bob Peffers:It's, *hyne*, and was in general usage in the
> > Lothians
> > and Borders and does mean far away.
> > --
>
> Hmmm .. I aye thocht it wis "hine" up in the north east, min.. I'll
> check fan I gang hame. :)
>
>
>
> Scotty
Don't suppose the spelling matters "hine" or "hyne"
cheers
Allan
Thomson McFarlane
<junk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8sn7nu$6uh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
> experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
> software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
> what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
> word or something I had just made up?
>
> Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
> make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
> newsgroup.
I too have been pulled up for using the word, and only then found out it was
a Scottish word. As you say it is such a useful word. I do use it often.
I wish I could remember to use more Scottish words, like forby &c..
Thomson
Haggisman
>
> <junk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8sn7nu$6uh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>> "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
>> experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
>> software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
>> what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
>> word or something I had just made up?
>>
>> Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
>> make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
>> newsgroup.
>
> I too have been pulled up for using the word, and only then found out
> it was
> a Scottish word. As you say it is such a useful word. I do use it
> often.
>
> I wish I could remember to use more Scottish words, like forby &c..
'outwith' is used extensively in the SNP Web Site and these are in
the English versions rather than the Doric or Gaelic translations. :)
Scotty
Auld Bob Peffers
Dictionary.
Auld Bob Peffers
> Thomson McFarlane wrote:
> >
> > <junk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:8sn7nu$6uh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >> In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> >> "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
> >> experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
> >> software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
> >> what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
> >> word or something I had just made up?
> >>
> >> Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
> >> make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
> >> newsgroup.
> >
> > I too have been pulled up for using the word, and only then found out
> > it was
> > a Scottish word. As you say it is such a useful word. I do use it
> > often.
> >
> > I wish I could remember to use more Scottish words, like forby &c..
>
> 'outwith' is used extensively in the SNP Web Site and these are in
> the English versions rather than the Doric or Gaelic translations. :)
>
> Scotty
accepted as also being an English word. Strange how everyone accepts English
words passing into Scots usage but not the other way round.
connochies
Auld Bob Peffers <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8sqder$st9$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "connochies" <co...@conno.greatxscape.net> wrote in message
> news:8soklp$2b7$2...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
a
> Dictionary.
Both spellings are correct though! Hine is given as the adverb for "away or
afar" in Chambers Scots Dictionary, as is Hyne. Though I suppose hyne is
more normal, and I would certainly normally use the spellings "hyne, wyne
etc." Then again my spelling has already let me down on other threads
today.
cheers
Allan
steven pirie-shepherd
"David A. Allan" wrote:
> "
> > Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into" eg.
> > "Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
> <snip>
>
> Still used by all of my family members (in Forfar) today...and I suspect by
> a great deal of other Scots speakers in Scotland too.
> ISTR there was a thread a few months back on a similar topic, where someone
> explained the origins, which were from "but an ben", ie a two-roomed
> 'cotterhoose'. ;-)
In Dutch "Kom Binnen" means "come in". I suspect that there may be a dutch
etymology here. My german friends are amused by this as binnen is very very
archaic german for much the same thing.
--
Steven Pirie-Shepherd Ph.D.
***insert pithy phrase here***
ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk
<dave....@sympatico.ca> :
>
>Graham McDermott wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking the other day about some words my Gran and mum used
>> to use that I never use today or at least rarely use. The phrase
>> that popped into my head (which I have no idea how to spell) is
>> hallakaplunk Tuesday. She used to use it when she meant a job was
>> never going to get done or when something was to be deferred
>> indefinitely.....
>> eg:
>> Thats going to happen next hallakaplunk Tuesday.
>>
>
>I think your Gran made that one up. It may be short for
>"helluvalongtime".
>
>> Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into"
>> eg. "Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
>>
>
>Yes, my grandmother would say what sounded to me like
>"Gang ben the room" meaning that I should go (through) into the
>next room.
>
>I have long been curious about a word my father sometimes used
>to refer to the kitchen sink, sounded like "jawbox". Does that
>ring any bells?
>
That's an old Glaswegian one, Dave.
What about "a wee ta'te" ?
I was amazed last week when my 45 year old cousin didn't
know what "glaur" was !!
>My mother used the expression "backside-foremost". My friends
>laughed when I used it. Perfectly good expression -- but I
>wondered where she got it.
>
That's a polite version of, "arse for elbow".
-- Ian Stewart
-- http://www.ian.stewart.ukgateway.net/
J Steele
"Thomson McFarlane" <tm...@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message
news:8sovtq$1s7$1...@tron.sci.fi...
from. I can remember my gran using the phrase but my mother-in-law also
used to use it.
David A. Allan
"steven pirie-shepherd" <pi...@davidbowie.com> wrote in message
news:39F1A7C3...@davidbowie.com...
<snip>
> In Dutch "Kom Binnen" means "come in". I suspect that there may be a dutch
> etymology here.
Quite possibly!
My german friends are amused by this as binnen is very very
> archaic german for much the same thing.
Still used to this day in Austria (as are many terms considered "archaic"
elsewhere in the German-speaking world).
David
Nick-Durie
>
> > "
> > > Another one was Ben being used for, as I remember it, "go into" eg.
> > > "Awa ben the kitchen and help yir grandfaither"
> > <snip>
> >
> > Still used by all of my family members (in Forfar) today...and I suspect
by
> > a great deal of other Scots speakers in Scotland too.
> > ISTR there was a thread a few months back on a similar topic, where
someone
> > explained the origins, which were from "but an ben", ie a two-roomed
> > 'cotterhoose'. ;-)
>
very
> archaic german for much the same thing.
>
Binan in AngloSaxon, that's where the Scots word comes from so I guess you
could also call it archaic English as well only you'd need to insert a few
hundred VERYs.
Mike MacKinnon
>
> <junk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8sn7nu$6uh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> > "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Any other words that people remember that are rarely used?
> >
> > There was a letter in "The Herald" the other day about the word
> > 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
> > experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
> > software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
> > what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
> > word or something I had just made up?
> >
> > Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
> > make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
> > newsgroup.
>
> I too have been pulled up for using the word, and only then found out it
was
> a Scottish word. As you say it is such a useful word. I do use it often.
>
> I wish I could remember to use more Scottish words, like forby &c..
>
>
Could 'forby' be directly translated from the German 'vorbei' ? Both words
mean roughly the same.
Mike
ejaycee@mahoose
someone wrote
> > >
> > >> Any other words that people remember that are rarely used?
I don't know if these are still in common use but I use them
fairly regularly - not sure on spelling we only spoke it never wrote it
> > >
'skunnered' is a favourite meaning 'disgusted with'
as in 'she fair skunnered' me ' or 'I was skunnered by'
> > >
'trochled' meaning harassed, beat, dispirited, exhausted
'your looking a wee bit trochled' or 'she's fair trochled with those kids"
'sonsie' meaning bonnie or braw 'yons a sonsie wee bairn'
'dreich' meaning miserable. tedious, dreary,usually 'its a dreich day the day'
--
from Ejaycee
in the heart of Tasmania
connochies
ejaycee@mahoose <ejan...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Bh4J5.7603$e5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Scunnert and dreich in particular are still very widely used! Sonsie and
trochled are not so common in the south, but can't speak for other areas.
cheers
Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
junk...@my-deja.com
"Auld Bob Peffers" <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Frae Auld Bob Peffers:*Outwith*, is quoted in the COD so I assume it
is now
> accepted as also being an English word. Strange how everyone accepts
English
> words passing into Scots usage but not the other way round.
I don't expect it is a case of now being accepted after passing
into general usage. Far more likely it is a word that has passed
out of usuage in most places but remained in use in Scotland.
Nick-Durie
> Could 'forby' be directly translated from the German 'vorbei' ? Both words
> mean roughly the same.
Look the same don't they?
English word's 'forbye', means something a wei, littil, peirie, peidie,
scootie, tottie bittokkie different tho, viz., I ween, on the side, durn't
it ghappan?
Amazing how different nautical English, gunwales, fo'c'sles, forenoons etc,
is to the insipid, pithless, frenchified, prosaic English of the media.
> Mike
>
>
neil maccormick
stop, "but", is still used in Glasgow as it was in my youth, and if it ever
was common elsewhere in Scotland? Neil MacCormick
Mike MacKinnon wrote:
> Thomson McFarlane <tm...@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message
> news:8spsg3$h4d$2...@tron.sci.fi...
> >
> > <junk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8sn7nu$6uh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> > > "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Any other words that people remember that are rarely used?
> > >
> > > There was a letter in "The Herald" the other day about the word
> > > 'outwith'. Apparently only Scots use it. This ties in with my
> > > experience some years back when I wrote the word in some formal
> > > software instructions. A user, in England, phoned up and asked
> > > what the hell I was talking about, was it some hi-tech buzz
> > > word or something I had just made up?
> > >
> > > Personally I think it's a great word and one I've resolved to
> > > make much more use of from now on. Both within and outwith this
> > > newsgroup.
> >
> > I too have been pulled up for using the word, and only then found out it
> was
> > a Scottish word. As you say it is such a useful word. I do use it often.
> >
> > I wish I could remember to use more Scottish words, like forby &c..
> >
> > Thomson
> >
> Could 'forby' be directly translated from the German 'vorbei' ? Both words
> mean roughly the same.
>
> Mike
Auld Bob Peffers
"neil maccormick" <lie...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:39F63E09...@mindspring.com...
> Carrying on the etymological (jings) thread, does anyone know if the
glottal
> stop, "but", is still used in Glasgow as it was in my youth, and if it
ever
> was common elsewhere in Scotland? Neil MacCormick
>
> Mike MacKinnon wrote:
>
> > Thomson McFarlane <tm...@saunalahti.fi> wrote in message
> > news:8spsg3$h4d$2...@tron.sci.fi...
> > >
> > > <junk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:8sn7nu$6uh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > > In article <8slftn$dv1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> > > > "Graham McDermott" <gra...@bankieboy.nospam.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Any other words that people remember that are rarely used?
> > > >
> > > > There was a letter in "The Herald" the other day about the word
snip
> > >
> > > Thomson
> > >
> > Could 'forby' be directly translated from the German 'vorbei' ? Both
words
> > mean roughly the same.
> >
> > Mike
>
Scotland do not use it. The one that annoys me is used extensively in
England and is the, *Know what I mean*, tagged on to everything. I feel like
saying, *Sorry I do not know what you mean*, every time they say it.
Nick-Durie
neil maccormick <lie...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:39F63E09...@mindspring.com...
> Carrying on the etymological (jings) thread, does anyone know if the
glottal
> stop, "but", is still used in Glasgow as it was in my youth, and if it
ever
> was common elsewhere in Scotland? Neil MacCormick
>
> Mike MacKinnon wrote:
I would go so far to say that there is nowhere in the world where plosives
exist and the glottal stop does not. The Queen uses them, never heard her
talk about Sco'lun before?
Every English speaker in the world puts a glottal in football.
I make a lot of use of the glottal stop; wide usage is associated with all
working class dialects in the 'U'.K.
When I say the words tak, mak, pitt etc. I almost always glottalize the
final plosive and I come from Dundee.
steven pirie-shepherd
Fuireach) with all its associated tenses.
I bide here
Div you bide there?
Are you biding?
I bade in Dundee fhan I wiz wee.
Used a lot in Buchan/Banff/Gordon, still used outwith the confines of
Aberdeenshire?
Mike MacKinnon
| Another common older word in Scots is bide (english; stay/live gaelic :
| Fuireach) with all its associated tenses.
|
| I bide here
| Div you bide there?
| Are you biding?
| I bade in Dundee fhan I wiz wee.
|
| Used a lot in Buchan/Banff/Gordon, still used outwith the confines of
| Aberdeenshire?
Or, as regars the female partner, the 'bidie in'!
Mike
David A. Allan
<snip>
> | Used a lot in Buchan/Banff/Gordon, still used outwith the confines of
> | Aberdeenshire?
Yup, still widely used in Angus at least.
> Or, as regars the female partner, the 'bidie in'!
Ditto. As in *unmarried* partner/common law wife, it should be noted.
(Also commonly referred to in Forfar as a "fancie wifie"! ;-) No such term
as "fancie mannie" for the male equivalent, however!)
Barnaby Dellar
"steven pirie-shepherd" wrote :
> Another common older word in Scots is bide (english; stay/live gaelic :
> Fuireach) with all its associated tenses.
Just as an aside, "stay" in English doesn't mean "live". Well, not in
"English" English, anyway. I had no idea what people were on about when I
first moved up here, and was asked where I stayed.
Stephen Hamilton
<pi...@davidbowie.com> wrote:
>Another common older word in Scots is bide (english; stay/live gaelic :
>Fuireach) with all its associated tenses.
>
>I bide here
>Div you bide there?
>Are you biding?
>I bade in Dundee fhan I wiz wee.
>
>Used a lot in Buchan/Banff/Gordon, still used outwith the confines of
>Aberdeenshire?
Still very common in the American South. If you used it here it would
be instantly understood.
Stephen
Richard Kaulfuss
>
> >
> Frae Auld Bob Peffers: Yes Weegies still say but and most of the rest of
> Scotland do not use it. The one that annoys me is used extensively in
> England and is the, *Know what I mean*, tagged on to everything. I feel like
> saying, *Sorry I do not know what you mean*, every time they say it.
I am reminded of a story related by a former colleague (an Englishman)
about an evening he spent in the pub with his future brother-in-law
(a Scotsman). They were discussing the relative merits of their two
cultures when the b-i-l piped up,"Bit the thing that really gets me
aboot the English is hoo they always finish everything they're
saying with 'you know?', ye ken?"
--
Dick
Helen Ramsay
"steven pirie-shepherd" <pi...@davidbowie.com> wrote
> Another common older word in Scots is bide (english; stay/live gaelic :
> Fuireach) with all its associated tenses.
>
> I bide here
> Div you bide there?
> Are you biding?
> I bade in Dundee fhan I wiz wee.
>
> Used a lot in Buchan/Banff/Gordon, still used outwith the confines of
> Aberdeenshire?
Aye yaised in Fife.
Cheers,
Helen
connochies
> Fuireach) with all its associated tenses.
>
> I bide here
> Div you bide there?
> Are you biding?
> I bade in Dundee fhan I wiz wee.
>
> Used a lot in Buchan/Banff/Gordon, still used outwith the confines of
> Aberdeenshire?
Very common in the south too Steven.
Allan
Stephen Copinger
David A. Allan wrote in message <8t9apa$kgn$1...@news5.jaring.my>...
<snip>
>> Or, as regars the female partner, the 'bidie in'!
>
>Ditto. As in *unmarried* partner/common law wife, it should be noted.
>(Also commonly referred to in Forfar as a "fancie wifie"! ;-) No such term
>as "fancie mannie" for the male equivalent, however!)
>
living together as husband and wife and claiming to be husband and wife
legally *are* husband and wife. A bidie-in would not be a husband or wife,
but legally "one living in concubinage"
Beannachd leibh
Stephen
connochies
Stephen Copinger <S-Cop...@zetnet.co.bounce.uk> wrote in message
news:39f8c90a$0$1...@news.zetnet.co.uk...
Concise Scots Dictionary. bidie-in = a person who lives with another of the
opposite sex without marriage.
The CSD gives it as an Aberdeenshire expression, but it is certainly widely
used in the south too.
Allan
>
> Beannachd leibh
> Stephen
>
>
David Thorpe
"Stephen Copinger" <S-Cop...@zetnet.co.bounce.uk> wrote in message
news:39f8c90a$0$1...@news.zetnet.co.uk...
>
> <snip>
> >> Or, as regars the female partner, the 'bidie in'!
> >
> >Ditto. As in *unmarried* partner/common law wife, it should be noted.
> >(Also commonly referred to in Forfar as a "fancie wifie"! ;-) No such
term
> >as "fancie mannie" for the male equivalent, however!)
> >
> Shame on you, "common law wife" is an *nglish term. In Scotland a couple
> living together as husband and wife and claiming to be husband and wife
> legally *are* husband and wife
>
married in Scotland unless the marriage was conducted by a recognised
clergyman or by a registrar.
David.
Auld Bob Peffers
"David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:8t9apa$kgn$1...@news5.jaring.my...
over Fife, Lothians and Perth and Kinross.
Auld Bob Peffers
news:drijvs0016td84qj3...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:38:07 +0100, "connochies"
> <co...@conno.greatxscape.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Stephen Copinger <S-Cop...@zetnet.co.bounce.uk> wrote in message
> >> >
couple
> >> living together as husband and wife and claiming to be husband and wife
> >> legally *are* husband and wife. A bidie-in would not be a husband or
wife,
> >> but legally "one living in concubinage"
> >
> >Concise Scots Dictionary. bidie-in = a person who lives with another of
the
> >opposite sex without marriage.
> >
> >The CSD gives it as an Aberdeenshire expression, but it is certainly
widely
> >used in the south too.
> >
>
>
Frae Auld bob Peffers:The expression, *bide a wee*, (Stay a little while),
is still common.
Stephen Copinger
David Thorpe wrote in message <8tcme5$mqiok$1...@ID-55350.news.dfncis.de>...
>
<snip>
>> Shame on you, "common law wife" is an *nglish term. In Scotland a couple
>> living together as husband and wife and claiming to be husband and wife
>> legally *are* husband and wife
>>
>Not since the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1939. One cannot now be legally
>married in Scotland unless the marriage was conducted by a recognised
>clergyman or by a registrar.
>
_consensus non concubitus facit matrimonium_ still applies. Marriage can be
constituted in two forms: Regular and Irregular.
Regular marriage is formed by appropriate ceremony before an authorised
celebrant, either authorised religious celebrant or a registrar, all in
accordance with statute.
Irregular marriage prior to 1st July 1940 could be constituted in thress
ways (1) declaration _de praesenti_, declaring consent in the presence of
witnesses, (2) promise _subsequente copula_, a promise of marriage followed
by copulation in reliance of marriage, and (3) habit and repute, living
together are hussband and wife and holding themselves out to be married.
Forms (1) and (2) were no longer competent to constitute new marriages after
1st July 1940 (but marriages may still be declared to exist from
constitution by such means prior to that date), while (3) remains competent
to this day.
A regular marriage is proven by the entry in the Register of Marriages, and
appropriate Extract. An irregular marriage is proven by action of
declarator, and the Extract given by the court will declare the date on
which the marriage was originally constituted.
Incidentally marriage for a terms of years were only finally abolished in
1609 by the Statutes of Iona.
Beannachd leibh
Stephen
David Thorpe
nevertheless agree that your original statement that a couple living
together as husband and wife and claiming to be husband and wife legally
recognised by, say, the Inland Revenue or the benefit authorities. As I
understand it, an irregular marriage will not be considered legal unless the
man and wife are cohabiting, are holding themselves out to be and are
generally understood to be husband and wife, and have formed the intention
to get married. If I'm right in this, that would tend to disqualify a large
number of cohabiting couples as one cannot help but think that if a couple
did intend to get married (and many, for one reason or another, don't)
they'd go and get married. Even if these criteria are satisfied, however,
the relationship will not presumably be recognised as a marriage unless and
until they go to the trouble of obtaining the Declarator and I would assume
that in fact this happens extremely rarely as if the parties want their
relationship to be legally recognised as a marriage it would presumably be
quicker, easier, and undoubtedly cheaper to go to their local minister or
registrar rather than bother the Court (of Session?). Am I right in
assuming that Declarators are most likely to be sought after one of the
parties has died and a dispute has arisen regarding the "matrimonial"
assets?
David.
Stephen Copinger
David Thorpe wrote in message <8tfsfd$mqjep$1...@ID-55350.news.dfncis.de>...
<snip>
>> May I respectfully suggest you re-examine your authorities. The rule
>> _consensus non concubitus facit matrimonium_ still applies. Marriage can
>> be constituted in two forms: Regular and Irregular.
>>
>Thanks for this interesting information. However, I trust that you will
>nevertheless agree that your original statement that a couple living
>together as husband and wife and claiming to be husband and wife legally
>*are* husband and wife is not actually true
an action of declarator confirms this, and states the date on which their
marriage commenced.
> and I'm sure would not be
>recognised by, say, the Inland Revenue or the benefit authorities.
Inland Revenue, it depends on circumstances - sometimes they accept
marriage, sometimes they challenge it, sometimes they are the ones seeking
Declarator in the opposition of the couple.
The DSS actually don't care whether people are married or not, they have a
catchall "partner", if a couple are living together in marriage or
concubinage it treats them the same. The biggest problem is actually where a
male and female share premises but are not "a couple" eg flat-sharing, and
the DSS insists on treating them as "partners"; the person affected by that
frequently has to take legal action (at least an appeal within the DSS
system) to prove they are not "partners".
>As I
>understand it, an irregular marriage will not be considered legal unless
the
>man and wife are cohabiting, are holding themselves out to be and are
>generally understood to be husband and wife, and have formed the intention
>to get married. If I'm right in this, that would tend to disqualify a large
>number of cohabiting couples as one cannot help but think that if a couple
>did intend to get married (and many, for one reason or another, don't)
>they'd go and get married.
Quite correct, although you missed out that the couple have to be free to be
married ie not married to someone else and not within the forbidden degrees.
Cohabiting couples who do not hold themselves out to be married, and do not
intend themselves to be married are not married. Legally they are "living in
concubinage", and back to the original point of this sub-thread are
"bidie-in's".
> Even if these criteria are satisfied, however,
>the relationship will not presumably be recognised as a marriage unless and
>until they go to the trouble of obtaining the Declarator and I would assume
>that in fact this happens extremely rarely as if the parties want their
>relationship to be legally recognised as a marriage it would presumably be
>quicker, easier, and undoubtedly cheaper to go to their local minister or
>registrar rather than bother the Court (of Session?).
The relationship can be recognised as a marriage without Declarator, but a
Decree of Declarator is the unchallengable form of proof. And yes it is
cheaper and quicker to have Registry marriage than take an action to the
Court of Session. However, since the couple considers themselves already to
be married, they frequently resist having to "re-marry" - in such cases if
both of the couple state themselves to be married, the onus is placed on the
person challenging to disprove or to accept the position.
> Am I right in
>assuming that Declarators are most likely to be sought after one of the
>parties has died and a dispute has arisen regarding the "matrimonial"
>assets?
>
That is the most common situation where a Declarator is sought - usually one
has died intestate, and their family have fallen out with the spouse who
requires to claim his or her prior and legal rights. The other circumstances
tend to be where a couple have long accepted that they are married, but
subsequently fall out and either raise an action of Declarator prior to
divorce or raise a cross action, one for Declarator of marriage the other
for Silence and Putting to Rest (declaring that the couple are not married
and ordering the other party to stop claiming that they are).
Beannachd leibh
stephen
Charles Ellson
<8tcme5$mqiok$1...@ID-55350.news.dfncis.de> m...@ecosse.net
"David Thorpe" wrote:
Wrong. Marriage by cohabitation with repute is now the last form of irregular
marriage still allowed under Scots Law, with around 4 or 5 registered each
year, usually posthumously for inheritance purposes. The important
qualification of such a partnership is being _known_ as husband and wife;
merely living together and being commonly known as that will pull the rug
out from under a later court action to establish that a marriage existed.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson:E-mail charlesATellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk
Thorpe" <m...@ecosse.net> :
>
>"Stephen Copinger" <S-Cop...@zetnet.co.bounce.uk> wrote in message
>news:39f8c90a$0$1...@news.zetnet.co.uk...
>>
>> David A. Allan wrote in message <8t9apa$kgn$1...@news5.jaring.my>...
>> <snip>
>> >> Or, as regars the female partner, the 'bidie in'!
>> >
>> >Ditto. As in *unmarried* partner/common law wife, it should be noted.
>> >(Also commonly referred to in Forfar as a "fancie wifie"! ;-) No such
>term
>> >as "fancie mannie" for the male equivalent, however!)
>> >
Your East Coast heritage appears to be showing !!!!!
"Fancy Man" is often heard in Glasgow / Lanarkshire.
No bigotry here, we treat all as equals (except those from Embra !)
-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.scs.informer.ukgateway.net/
David A. Allan
<ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:un460tciakjgdcjmm...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> Your East Coast heritage appears to be showing !!!!!
Indeed ;-)
> "Fancy Man" is often heard in Glasgow / Lanarkshire.
> No bigotry here, we treat all as equals (except those from Embra !)
Actually just spoke with my mother on the 'phone - and she was telling me
about some wifie's "fancie mannie"...so turns out I was mistaken! ;-)
David
Helen Ramsay
<ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
> >> <snip>
> >> >> Or, as regars the female partner, the 'bidie in'!
> >> >
> >> >Ditto. As in *unmarried* partner/common law wife, it should be
noted.
> >> >(Also commonly referred to in Forfar as a "fancie wifie"! ;-) No
such term
> >> >as "fancie mannie" for the male equivalent, however!)
> >> >
I'm from the East Coast.
> "Fancy Man" is often heard in Glasgow / Lanarkshire.
We say 'fancy man' ;-)
> No bigotry here, we treat all as equals (except those from Embra !)
Oh aye <g>
Cheers,
Helen