The Iolaire Disaster
Murdo
it on the Net found almost nothing. Now I've stumbled across it on the
website of Comunn Eachdraidh Nis (Ness Historical Society):
http://www.c-e-n.org/iolaire.htm
The Ness website is a fascinating read for those interested in the
Western Isles. Ness is a Gaelic-speaking village (as can be seen by a
number of items on the site which the writer hasn't thought to
translate into English!) and the site offers an insight into a way of
life which is foreign to most Scots.
http://www.c-e-n.org/index.htm
This website is a complete record of the village of Ness, the most
northwesterly village in Britain, home of Clan Morrison and an
extraordinarily go-ahead little settlement. Ness does cultuiral
exchanges with Ireland, churns out songs and poetry by the cartload
and maintains links with emigrants all over the world. It is heavily
visited by knowledgeable Gaels and others (over 2,000 visited the
Heritage Centre in 2000/2001) and this coming year will host a Clan
Morrison gathering as the results of Ness's archeological excavations
at Dun Eistean are studied and evaluated.
Ness epitomizes the revival of the Gael in the Hebrides. In 1977 a
small group of local history enthusiasts laid the groundwork for what
would become Comunn Eachdraidh Nis (Ness Historical Society) and
provide the catalyst for what would later develop into the wider
Comunn Eachdraidh movement in the Western Isles. The remarkable gift
of Taigh Dhonnchaidh, the former home of the late Duncan Morrison to
the community as specified in his will, has allowed the community to
offer tuition in various Gaelic arts and a grant means the program can
be expanded.
While reading about the Clann Nighean an Iasgach (The Herring Girls),
I found this saying (untranslated, so I've done the honours) which
described the typical herring girl's (and my own) attitude towards the
weekend!
Dihaoine mo ghaoil; Friday my love
Disathairn mo ghràidh; Saturday my darling
Didòmhnaich latha a’ chadail mhòir; Sunday, day of the great sleep
Ach oich, oich, Diluain, But och, och, Monday
‘S an t-seachdain cho fada 's a bha i riamh. It's the week as long as it ever was.
The famous blacksmithing Murrays are also described in detail here.
For those who enjoy genealogy, this is a typical treat. The Murray
history begins:
The history of the Lewis Murrays dates back to at least the early
1600’s, when watchers on the Ness coast spotted an unfamiliar boat
rounding the Butt and making for the beach at Cunndal. There were two
men on board and, as custom dictated when strangers landed, they were
taken to the ‘Big House’ at Habost to be entertained (and scrutinised)
by Morison - the clan chief appointed by the Lords of the Isles as
Judge, or Magistrate, over Lewis. It eventually transpired that the
men were fugitives from justice and sought permission to remain in
Lewis. Morison granted their request.
One of the visitors had a distinguishing bluish birthmark on his cheek
and neck. Later, he set up as a blacksmith in Swainbost and came to
be known in Lewis as An Gobha Gorm. From him are largely descended
the Murrays of Lewis.
(there follows a detailed description through the years of the Murray
contribution to the present...)
Murdo.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Murdo" <mu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:54k0uusslqt99onlt...@4ax.com...
--
The adorable Adam Whyte-Settlar
- destined to be forever in the minority
S Viemeister
> This website is a complete record of the village of Ness, the most
> northwesterly village in Britain, home of Clan Morrison and an
> extraordinarily go-ahead little settlement.
>
Ness is certainly more westerly than Durness, home of Clan Mackay - is it
also more northerly?
Murdo
I figure Durness would win by a whisker, but I haven't a large scale
map.
Is anyone still living at Balnakiel?
Murdo
<grawi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Murdo" <mu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:54k0uusslqt99onlt...@4ax.com...
>> A few days ago I mentioned the Iolaire Disaster and while looking for
>> it on the Net found almost nothing. Now I've stumbled across it on the
>> website of Comunn Eachdraidh Nis (Ness Historical Society):
>Good post Murdo.
Well, thank you! Nice to see you back in touch again. The new house
sounds wonderful; the PFD must be beside herself!
S Viemeister
>
> I figure Durness would win by a whisker, but I haven't a large scale
> map.
>
check.
> Is anyone still living at Balnakiel?
>
Balnakiel itself? Or do you mean Balnakeil House?
There are all sorts of craft shops at Balnakeil, and a very good
bookshop+restaurant, and yes, people do live there.
Balnakeil House has been empty for some years - there has been talk of
using it as a 'Duthaich'ic Aoidh' centre.
Sheila
ace
Murdo, a few weeks ago I sent you an e-mail asking for help with a Gaelic
translation. You never answered, so I guess you don't want to help. As
you seem so engaged with Gaelic, can you explain why you won't help me
with my book?
Sheila, your surname sounds really German/Austrian. How come?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
regards from Bielefeld/Germany
Andy
S Viemeister schrieb:
Murdo
wrote:
>Hi Murdo, Hi Sheila
>
>Murdo, a few weeks ago I sent you an e-mail asking for help with a Gaelic
>translation. You never answered, so I guess you don't want to help. As
>you seem so engaged with Gaelic, can you explain why you won't help me
>with my book?
I never got your email because the email address I've listed here
doesn't exist.
Murdo
Balnakiel House. When I was a child and we came to that part of the
mainland, that was where we would stay. There and at Eriboll.
S Viemeister
>
> Sheila, your surname sounds really German/Austrian. How come?
>
S Viemeister
>
> Balnakiel House. When I was a child and we came to that part of the
> mainland, that was where we would stay. There and at Eriboll.
>
Sheila
Murdo
Probably not - we're half a century apart.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"S Viemeister" <sheila.v...@which.net> wrote in message
news:3DE0D95E...@which.net...
: )
For those Merkans and 55.9 million other UK citizens that wouldn't realise
that the above question is quintessentially typical of north-coasters, I
should point out that there are three types of northern Scotspeople;
east-coast bastards, west-coast bastards and north-coasters. The latter are
obsessively possessive of their own perceived differentness. There are only
about 2,000 genuine Scottish north-coasters on the entire planet and they
will never let anyone forget it. (Thurso is technically on the north coast
but her 6,000+ inhabitants are regarded (quite correctly IMO) as a seperate
sub-species and conveniently ignored).
They have one road, two pubs, one Tongue and the most scrotum-contracting
and radioactive beaches in the world. Their accent is unique to them,
incorporating as it does all the worst aspects of the west-coast whine and
east coast unintelligibility.
That apart their main preoccupation is that no-one on the British mainland
lives further north than they do.
Within the first minute of meeting one you will know them as the
conversation will somehow turn to include a discussion which will reveal
that Dunnet Head is actually farther north than John-O'Groats and that the
latter green-slime-coated-hamlet-of-1970's-rippoff-craft-shops is in fact on
the east coast and not the north.
That said, they do possess one of the best little pubs in the country at Far
Bay and it is the only area in the north of Scotland where one doesn't have
to tolerate the ******* west-coasters nor the ******* east coasters.
I love it.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Sort of more on top of herself I would say - but there is an unmistakable
blush of deep grey about her cheeks these days.
I remember the first time I went to Stornaway (how could I forget?). I was
in the company of five young Stornaway lads (2 named Angus McLeod) on their
way home for a long weekend from working on the oil-rig constuction yard at
Nigg Bay. They had latched on to me as some sort of odd curiosity and
insisted I went home with them for the weekend (Oh, the innocence of youth)
Of course they began drinking the moment we left Nigg and by the time we had
reached the Aultguish Inn on the Geary (sp?) pass one hour later they were
all absolutely pissed - including the drivers of course - it was normal in
those days (1973).
I will skip all the hair-raising (to me) incidents which occurred between
there and the approach to Stornaway Harbour as it would use up most of scs
available bandwidth.
We crossed the Minch on the good ship [sic] Suilven - you remember? - the
one which was cut in half and then stitched back together again? I was gald
it was a calm sea.+
Anyway, as we pulled into Stornaway they told me the story of the Iolaire,
pointing out the spots where it all happened and the rocks where people were
smashed to bits by the waves and the spot where some of their friends on
land could hear the cries from the ship only yards off-shore.
These were just daft young guys who were two generations removed from the
disaster but they were at the maudling stage of being utterly plastered by
this time and one would have to be as insensitive as you lot not to feel
some empathy with the almost unbearable sadness of that event. The survivors
from the trenches only a hundred yards from their loved ones after all that
time away...
The Hebrides in particular have such sad tales of the sea.
Never mind - when I spotted the lines of young, dark-haired and lusty
west-coast Lassies lined up on the harbour wall to welcome the Nigg
pay-packets and their freinds home I soon cheered up.
Some weekend that turned out to be, and the first of many let me tell you.
S Viemeister
>
> Probably not - we're half a century apart.
>
Or even a quarter century.
S Viemeister
> They have one road, two pubs, one Tongue and the most scrotum-contracting
> and radioactive beaches in the world.
>
Hoy!! We've TWO roads (the one which goes east and west, and the one which
goes south) and THREE pubs. And those beaches are a lot closer to Thurso,
than to Tongue. And sometimes the water isn't quite that cold.
> Their accent is unique to them,
> incorporating as it does all the worst aspects of the west-coast whine and
> east coast unintelligibility.
>
The Gaelic is quite distinctive, as well.
> That said, they do possess one of the best little pubs in the country at Far
> Bay and it is the only area in the north of Scotland where one doesn't have
> to tolerate the ******* west-coasters nor the ******* east coasters.
>
Ah - including Farr, we have FOUR pubs.
> I love it.
>
As do I.
Sheila
Lachie Macquarie
<FGmE9.2751$Li.5...@news02.tsnz.net> and displaying the suave and
sophisticated disposition of Archibald Leach, Adam Whyte-Settlar
<grawi...@hotmail.com> sgrìobh,
>
>"Murdo" <mu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:78q1uuobe5c3fevm9...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:04:12 +1300, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
>> <grawi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Murdo" <mu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >news:54k0uusslqt99onlt...@4ax.com...
>> >> A few days ago I mentioned the Iolaire Disaster and while looking for
>> >> it on the Net found almost nothing. Now I've stumbled across it on the
>> >> website of Comunn Eachdraidh Nis (Ness Historical Society):
>>
6.21
G P HALL -
Recorded 27-1-98 *
Sea Sorrow was commissioned by David Sykes
for the people of Stornoway and dedicated to
the men who lost there lives, and the survivors
who never forgot that terrible catastrophe.
The Holm memorial Isle of Lewis which is hallowed
to the 210 men who lost there lives on the 'IOLAIRE'.
of the 210 that perished on the 1st January 1919,
(there was never any official passenger list).
188 were Lewis men.
At the time of the Tragedy written in the Times
(the only mainland national newspaper to record the
loss), there was just a small paragraph mentioning
the shipwreck, much to the irritation of the
Islanders; Who rightly so, still feel to this day,
a sense of outrage.
...Based on the loss of the 'IOLAIRE' the ship
returning demobilised troops home to the Western
Isles at the end of 1918.
..This piece evokes the power and moods of the sea,
and the lasting relationship between the sea and the
islanders and the lasting sadness and loss which the
community suffered at that time...
Malcolm Roderick Stornoway Gazette November 1997
The Western Isles tour was helped with assistance
from McLennan Oils Ltd: The Bank Of Scotland: and
David Sykes; who arranged all the personal details
of the tour and who's hard work and determination
meant that all of the concerts and educational
workshops were a success.
"I thank the people of Lewis I realize the awesome
responsibility of this commission;
It still haunts me": GP.
http://www.soft.net.uk/gphall/gpnotes.htm#ts16
Well do you know where the Suilven is now and her last Gaelic speaking
Cal-Mac Captain?
Well the last time I was on her was between Wellington and Picton. After
a night on the bevies coming down by train from Auckland I thought I
recognised her from the dim and distant. I was quizzing one of the crew
and he took me up to see the man himself. I was even given a cup of tea.
Yes there were dolphins and the ship entering the narrows as it sailed
into Picton roads was something I will never forget. Bit like entering
the Corinth Canal IMHO.
I have rellies living on the Banks, Timaru and Dunedin, so beware.
>Never mind - when I spotted the lines of young, dark-haired and lusty
>west-coast Lassies lined up on the harbour wall to welcome the Nigg
>pay-packets and their freinds home I soon cheered up.
>Some weekend that turned out to be, and the first of many let me tell you.
>--
>The adorable Adam Whyte-Settlar
> - destined to be forever in the minority
>
>
>>
>
>
--
Lachie Macquarie, Bod an Deamhan--smaoineachadh miannach.
Craig Cockburn
<mu...@shaw.ca> writes
>A few days ago I mentioned the Iolaire Disaster and while looking for
>it on the Net found almost nothing. Now I've stumbled across it on the
>website of Comunn Eachdraidh Nis (Ness Historical Society):
>
>http://www.c-e-n.org/iolaire.htm
>
durachdan
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). SiliconGlen.com Ltd. http://SiliconGlen.com
Home to the first online guide to Scotland, founded 1994.
Scottish FAQ, wedding info, travel, search tools, stop spam and more!
Murdo
<cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote:
>In message <54k0uusslqt99onlt...@4ax.com>, Murdo
><mu...@shaw.ca> writes
>>A few days ago I mentioned the Iolaire Disaster and while looking for
>>it on the Net found almost nothing. Now I've stumbled across it on the
>>website of Comunn Eachdraidh Nis (Ness Historical Society):
>>
>>http://www.c-e-n.org/iolaire.htm
>>
>tha sin gu math neonach, nach eil dad ann a thaobh na orain ainmeal?
>
>durachdan
Cha robh rud sam bith ann idir! Bha iongnadh orm cuideachd.
Murchadh.
Murdo
Well, what I meant was it's been half a century since I was in those
parts, so the people I knew are long away to Těr nan Ňg.
When I last saw them, you would not yet have been born.
S Viemeister
(simpers) Why, thank you, kind Sir!
(thinks - better make sure to send the Informer an _old_ photo...)
Sheila
ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk
Viemeister <sheila.v...@which.net> :
Just make sure it's a little more up to date than Lesley's !!
Although I'm pretty certain there's a new one in the mail of her
wearing her infamous "thigh high boots"................
-- The Despicable Stewart PPP
-- Perfidious Alban
S Viemeister
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:01:15 -0500, I read these words from S
> Viemeister <sheila.v...@which.net> :
> >(thinks - better make sure to send the Informer an _old_ photo...)
> >
> Just make sure it's a little more up to date than Lesley's !!
>
Well, the one I was thinking of, shows me, my mother and my father, in
Princes Street gardens. I'm the one in the pram. (And Dad's in uniform -
it was a _long_ time ago.)
> Although I'm pretty certain there's a new one in the mail of her
> wearing her infamous "thigh high boots"................
>
_Just_ the boots? Not the gold jacket?
Sheila
ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk
Viemeister <sheila.v...@which.net> :
>ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:01:15 -0500, I read these words from S
>> Viemeister <sheila.v...@which.net> :
>
>> >(thinks - better make sure to send the Informer an _old_ photo...)
>> >
>
>> Just make sure it's a little more up to date than Lesley's !!
>>
>Well, the one I was thinking of, shows me, my mother and my father, in
>Princes Street gardens. I'm the one in the pram. (And Dad's in uniform -
>it was a _long_ time ago.)
I suspect that may be an earlier (in personal age terms) photo than
Lesley's. At least she's standing on her own two feet !
>
>> Although I'm pretty certain there's a new one in the mail of her
>> wearing her infamous "thigh high boots"................
>>
>_Just_ the boots? Not the gold jacket?
Of course, "Not *just* the boots" !!!!
All content will be suitable for family viewing.....
This is the Informer we're speaking of,
not that infamous calendar..............
ace
in a region called Ostwestfalen-Lippe. Shows you how small the world is.
S Viemeister schrieb:
S Viemeister
>
> Lippe is just around the corner from where I live. In fact Bielefeld is
> in a region called Ostwestfalen-Lippe. Shows you how small the world is.
>
Ostwestfalen.
ace
was some 20 years ago.
S Viemeister schrieb:
ace
I think I try it again then. I'm writing a fantasy book in German and I want a
few terms to be written in Gaelic. There's a situation where a young druid
novice from the year 1300 meets my heroine who basically appeared out of
nowhere. Of course the young boy will be excited/scared/curious when speaking
to this woman for the first time. This info just in case it makes a difference
with the translation. I would want him to say the following things in Gaelic
and best in words used around 1300:
To be translated in Gaelic:
Druid
Novice
Please don't harm/hurt me! Are you a ghost or human? Are you good or evil?
I brought you this cloak. I am your friend.
Mother?
Firehead (name of the boy as allusion to his red hair)
I found this woman. She is hurt and doesn't know where she is.
No, she is German.
An old druid man will ask "firehead" the follwoing things in Gaelic:
Firehead, where were you?
Who is this woman? Is she English?
German? Very strange/suspicious!
The wise old man (As a name for the old man. Can also be "the wise one" or
"the old one")
This doesn't have to be word by word the way I wrote it. You can alter it if
that makes the translation easier and as long as it says more or less the
same. Really helpful would be, if you could add to the Gaelic the word by word
translation in English to point out the different grammar to me. I hope I'm
not asking too much.
Thanks in advance for your help!!
Andy
Murdo schrieb:
Murdo
wrote:
>Oh well Murdo, that explains!
>I think I try it again then. I'm writing a fantasy book in German and I want a
>few terms to be written in Gaelic. There's a situation where a young druid
>novice from the year 1300 meets my heroine who basically appeared out of
>nowhere. Of course the young boy will be excited/scared/curious when speaking
>to this woman for the first time. This info just in case it makes a difference
>with the translation. I would want him to say the following things in Gaelic
>and best in words used around 1300:
I only know the Gaelic of the last 300 years - in the year 1300 it
would have been much more like mediaeval Irish, I suspect, and I have
little knowledge of that.
>To be translated in Gaelic:
>Druid
Drùidh
>Novice
Neach neo-theòma
(Person not-skilled)
>Please don't harm/hurt me! Are you a ghost or human? Are you good or evil?
Na dochainn mi, ma 's e do thoile! Bheil thu tannasg no duine? Bheil
thu deagh no droch dhuine?
Do not injure me, if it be thy pleasure! Are you ghost or human? Are
you a good man or evil?
>I brought you this cloak. I am your friend.
Thoir dhutsa mi an cleòc seo. 'S mi do chàraid.
Brought to thee me the cloak here. Is me thy friend.
>Mother?
A Mhathair?
Oh Mother?
>Firehead (name of the boy as allusion to his red hair)
Ceann-teinnteach (Fiery head)
>I found this woman.
Fhuair mi an tè seo.
Found me the woman here.
She is hurt and doesn't know where she is.
Tha e 'g a ciùrradh agus chan aithne dhith far am bheil i.
Is it at her pain and is not known to her where that is she.
>No, she is German.
Chan eil, tha i Ghearmailteach.
>An old druid man will ask "firehead" the follwoing things in Gaelic:
>
>Firehead, where were you?
Ceann-teinnteach, càit' an robh thu?
>Who is this woman? Is she English?
Cò tha 'n tè seo? Bheil i Shasannach?
>German? Very strange/suspicious!
Ghearmailteach? Glè neo-àbhaisteach/amharusach!
>The wise old man
am bodach glic.
the old-man wise
>As a name for the old man. Can also be
>the wise one
an duine glic
>the old one
am bodach
Murdo
<sheila.v...@which.net> wrote:
>Murdo wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:57:16 -0500, S Viemeister
>> <sheila.v...@which.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Murdo wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Probably not - we're half a century apart.
>> >>
>> >Well. you ARE older than I am - but not by anywhere near half a century.
>> >Or even a quarter century.
>>
>> Well, what I meant was it's been half a century since I was in those
>> parts, so the people I knew are long away to Tìr nan Òg.
>>
>> When I last saw them, you would not yet have been born.
>>
>>
>
>(simpers) Why, thank you, kind Sir!
You have no idea what this is going to cost you in the years to come!
Ian O.
>All content will be suitable for family viewing.....
>This is the Informer we're speaking of,
>not that infamous calendar..............
There is no such restriction on a certain alternative website <nudge,
nudge, wink, wink>. I believe it welcomes contributions involving
n*d*ty, full or partial - with the exception of MacR's knees, of
course.
In any case, I have observed pictures on the s.c.s. Informer pages
which are guaranteed to offend those of a sensitive disposition - in
fact those very words are used on it somewhere, IIRC. I do hope the
new version is not to be "dumbed-down" any further.
ace
Your 300 year old Gaelic will do the trick for me. If anybody from the year 1300
complains to me that I used his language wrongly, I'll apologize and let you know.
It's just to make it obvious to the reader that firehead really is talking a
different/unknown language anyway. Even better when this language isn't just made
up (even if it might be 400 years off).
"Bheil thu deagh no droch dhuine? Are you a good man or evil?"
Is the word -man- in the case of talking to a woman right?
Your word by word translation just gave me the idea to copy the sentence structure
for firehead when he's speaking Non-Gaelic with my heroine. It sounds cute and
probably adds to his character. What do you think?
Now I'm gonna cut and paste the Gaelic to my story. Again, many thanks for the help
and even more thanks for being so fast!!!!
Oh, before I forget. In one of your posts here you signed off with murdo just
spelled differently. I was wondering if that was a real name? If so, is it a first
or a last name and would it have been around at 1300? If you know a few good first
names male/female that were around at this time let me know if you like. I'll use
them all.
Regards from Bielefeld/Germany
Andy
Murdo schrieb:
ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk
iomor...@yahoo.co.uk (Ian O.) :
>On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:05:07 GMT, ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>>All content will be suitable for family viewing.....
>>This is the Informer we're speaking of,
>>not that infamous calendar..............
>
>There is no such restriction on a certain alternative website <nudge,
>nudge, wink, wink>. I believe it welcomes contributions involving
>n*d*ty, full or partial - with the exception of MacR's knees, of
>course.
These Embra publishers would appear to adopt a rather loose attitude
towards family values........
>
>In any case, I have observed pictures on the s.c.s. Informer pages
>which are guaranteed to offend those of a sensitive disposition - in
>fact those very words are used on it somewhere, IIRC. I do hope the
>new version is not to be "dumbed-down" any further.
If by "dumbed-down" you mean "more politically correct", that indeed
will be the case. "Prudence" is the watchword !!
Gordon (in the red) Brown says so !
Murdo
wrote:
>THANK YOU ever so much Murdo!!!!!
>
>Your 300 year old Gaelic will do the trick for me. If anybody from the year 1300
>complains to me that I used his language wrongly, I'll apologize and let you know.
>It's just to make it obvious to the reader that firehead really is talking a
>different/unknown language anyway. Even better when this language isn't just made
>up (even if it might be 400 years off).
>
>"Bheil thu deagh no droch dhuine? Are you a good man or evil?"
>Is the word -man- in the case of talking to a woman right?
No. I deliberately chose to use the word deagh and droch because they
translate good and evil as close as makes no matter, but also because
they are two of the eight or so adjectives which PREcede the noun in
Gaelic and aspitae the following noun. "Deagh no droch dhuine" is
euphonious (well, fairly euphonious!) to a Gaelic ear.
>
>Your word by word translation just gave me the idea to copy the sentence structure
>for firehead when he's speaking Non-Gaelic with my heroine. It sounds cute and
>probably adds to his character. What do you think?
Well of course the direct translation of Gaelic is how most Gaels cope
with speaking English, but they do tend to re-arrange the translation
into compatible English, rather than translate word for word.
For example, an English author might write:
"Och, the sickness is on me"
which is a legitimate and nearly literal translation of the Gaelic
phrase "Och, tha 'n tinneas orm"
but which translates literally as:
"Och, be the sickness on-me"
which doesn't sound very romantic.
This form of Highland-English ("Och, the sickness is on me") is very
popular with non-Gaels, and is thoroughly explored in Lillian
Beckwith's many books about the Hebrides, beloved of her countless
loyal readers.
However, it is a very specific form of English and cannot be faked.
You have to know it to write it. Miss Beckwith's books, and the Para
Handy stories by Neil Munro contain endless examples of the style.
>
>Now I'm gonna cut and paste the Gaelic to my story. Again, many thanks for the help
>and even more thanks for being so fast!!!!
>
>Oh, before I forget. In one of your posts here you signed off with murdo just
>spelled differently. I was wondering if that was a real name? If so, is it a first
>or a last name and would it have been around at 1300? If you know a few good first
>names male/female that were around at this time let me know if you like. I'll use
>them all.
I probably signed off as Murchadh, which is the Gaelic spelling of
Murdo (pronounced MOOR-ah-khah, where kh is the ch sound of Ach.)
Now I must tell you that I'm not too expert in the old names of the
Gaels, but by great good luck, Sharon Krossa who writes here is a PhD
candidate with a particular interest in old Gaelic names and even has
a website which includes considerable information on them!
http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/
Because Sharon is a mediaeval Scottish expert, you'll find her other
sites useful too. They're listed at:
http://www.medievalscotland.org/
>Regards from Bielefeld/Germany
>Andy
Murdo/Murchadh.
ejaycee
<snip>>
> This form of Highland-English ("Och, the sickness is on me") is
very
> popular with non-Gaels, and is thoroughly explored in Lillian
> Beckwith's many books about the Hebrides, beloved of her
countless
> loyal readers.
Is she the writer who was a school teacher and went to the
Hebrides
because she was sick and ended up staying??
I've read two of her books and thoroughly enjoyed them
I'll have a look on Google and see what else she wrote.
Her book was the first place I ever saw ripe milk referred to,
a lovely description
Ejaycee
Lesley Robertson
"ejaycee" <ejan...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:NvgF9.85428$g9.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
>
> "Murdo" <mu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:nioauu4k8f5su0b3n...@4ax.com...
> <snip>>
> > This form of Highland-English ("Och, the sickness is on me") is
> very
> > popular with non-Gaels, and is thoroughly explored in Lillian
> > Beckwith's many books about the Hebrides, beloved of her
> countless
> > loyal readers.
>
> Is she the writer who was a school teacher and went to the
> Hebrides
> because she was sick and ended up staying??
>
> I've read two of her books and thoroughly enjoyed them
> I'll have a look on Google and see what else she wrote.
>
Lesley Robertson
ace
you sharing your endless knowledge is very welcome. Thanks.
"However, it is a very specific form of English and cannot be faked.
You have to know it to write it."
I'm sure one would have to know it to write it. I probably forgot to mention that I'm
writing my book in German. Sorry. If I translate your English word by word translation
into German, than I get a fully understandable and cute sounding yet of course
completely wrong (German) sentence structure. That's what I meant. It's too late anyway.
I altered all the (German) phrases of "firehead" into this structure and I really like
it. Another good thing comes with it, you can easily regocnize who is talking in the
book without having to point it out like "Bla bla bla" said hem, said she, said whoever.
Sharon Krossa was pointed out to me before by Ian O. and both of you were right. She's
a great source of information and a great help for me. Thanks again to both of you!
"I probably signed off as Murchadh" - Yes, that's what I saw. After reading the
pronounciation I must say it sounds (I said it 20 times to me and my wife) very Arabic
to us. So I guess I won't use it for now. Or maybe for the bad guy? I'll decide that
later I guess.
regards
Andy
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
news:as4nlq$1r8$1...@news.tudelft.nl...
Lillian Beckworth;
> >
> That's her - she wrote quite a lot, and is somewhat unpopular on Skye.
> Lesley Robertson
>
*Everyone* is unpopular on Skye.
ejaycee
in message
me") is
> > very
> > > popular with non-Gaels, and is thoroughly explored in
Lillian
> > > Beckwith's many books about the Hebrides, beloved of her
> > countless
> > > loyal readers.
> >
> > Is she the writer who was a school teacher and went to the
> > Hebrides
> > because she was sick and ended up staying??
> >
> > I've read two of her books and thoroughly enjoyed them
> > I'll have a look on Google and see what else she wrote.
> >
> That's her - she wrote quite a lot, and is somewhat unpopular
on Skye.
> Lesley Robertson
>
Ejaycee>
>
Murdo
<grawi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
>news:as4nlq$1r8$1...@news.tudelft.nl...
>
>Lillian Beckworth;
>> >
>> That's her - she wrote quite a lot, and is somewhat unpopular on Skye.
>> Lesley Robertson
>>
>*Everyone* is unpopular on Skye.
Miss Beckwith's unpopularity seems to come from her presenting
Islanders as "cute", pleasant, willing but not desperately bright.
Islanders, like most Scots, prefer to be taken seriously and to have
people appreciate that living on an island where everything costs a
lot more after transportation charges are added than it does on the
mainland does not make life easier.
(Please don't bother going on about the Skye Bridge; prices are almost
as high in Kyle and Mallaig. Islanders find it pays to make an
expedition to Inverness or Glasgow to get decent price reductions and
bargains.)
Furthermore, Islanders find cold, wet and lack of decent shopping as
frustrating and annoying as anyone else and become irritated when
mainlanders talk as though Islanders deliberately choose to live in
such conditions. The reality is that like most people they do the best
they can but haven't the means to flit to Edinburgh or Provence.
Miss. Beckwith's presentation of Islanders as "cute" Gaelic peasants
is far from reality, as becomes apparent after checking university
graduate numbers for Islanders. This annoys literate Gaels, that is,
about 98% of the Gaelic population.
(Over to you Adam for the official White Man's Burden position!)
Murdo
wrote:
>"Murchadh" sounds very Arabic
Remember that when St. Paul wrote to us in the time of Christ (Letter
to the Galatians) we were then living in Galatia on the Anatolian
plains and our naming systems were influenced by local cultures.
Indeed, it was (mercifully) only a few years ago that older
Highlanders finally stopped writing their names as "MakkaDonald"
(Donald from Mecca) and "Makk' Nab" (Nab from Mecca).
"Ali" (from Alasdair) is still popular of course, while Murchadh is
actually a variation of Murchalladh: "Favoured of God".
Names like Mcbongo, Mukvinder and O'Gonzalez are typical of Glasgow.
S Viemeister
>
> Remember that when St. Paul wrote to us in the time of Christ (Letter
> to the Galatians) we were then living in Galatia on the Anatolian
> plains and our naming systems were influenced by local cultures.
>
> Indeed, it was (mercifully) only a few years ago that older
> Highlanders finally stopped writing their names as "MakkaDonald"
> (Donald from Mecca) and "Makk' Nab" (Nab from Mecca).
>
> "Ali" (from Alasdair) is still popular of course, while Murchadh is
> actually a variation of Murchalladh: "Favoured of God".
>
> Names like Mcbongo, Mukvinder and O'Gonzalez are typical of Glasgow.
>
Shame on you, Murdo! Someone might actually believe that, you write so
convincingly.
Sheila
Adam Whyte-Settlar
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:51:50 +1300, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
> <grawi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lesley Robertson" <l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
> >news:as4nlq$1r8$1...@news.tudelft.nl...
> >
> >Lillian Beckworth;
> >> >
> >> That's her - she wrote quite a lot, and is somewhat unpopular on Skye.
> >> Lesley Robertson
> >>
> >*Everyone* is unpopular on Skye.
>
> Miss Beckwith's unpopularity seems to come from her presenting
> Islanders as "cute", pleasant, willing but not desperately bright.
Well she 1 out of 3 anyway.
> Islanders, like most Scots, prefer to be taken seriously and to have
> people appreciate that living on an island where everything costs a
> lot more after transportation charges are added than it does on the
> mainland does not make life easier.
Civility costs nothing - whats their excuse for that? And why do Lambs and
drams cost more there anyway?
> (Please don't bother going on about the Skye Bridge; prices are almost
> as high in Kyle and Mallaig. Islanders find it pays to make an
> expedition to...[snip].... Glasgow to get decent price reductions and
> bargains.)
Not to mention decent service.
> Furthermore, Islanders find cold, wet and lack of decent shopping as
> frustrating and annoying as anyone else and become irritated when
> mainlanders talk as though Islanders deliberately choose to live in
> such conditions. The reality is that like most people they do the best
> they can but haven't the means to flit to Edinburgh or Provence.
Surprising then that so many aspire to flit in the opposite direction.
I 'flitted' from the cold, wet, west coast to Edinburgh whilst unemployed.
I hitched with a rucsac and slept on the floor of a squat until I got a job.
Took me 36 hours as it happens - there were 2 million unemployed at the
time. If they dont want to live there they have a choice same as I did.
> Miss. Beckwith's presentation of Islanders as "cute" Gaelic peasants
> is far from reality,
I agree with that wholeheartedly - in reality they are 'obnoxious' Gaelic
peasants.
as becomes apparent after checking university
> graduate numbers for Islanders.
Did you check the subjects they qualified in perchance?
Hospitality? Public relations? Communications? Sociology? - I think not.
Economics maybe.
This annoys literate Gaels, that is,
> about 98% of the Gaelic population.
*Everything* annoys 98% of the Gaelic population.
>
> (Over to you Adam for the official White Man's Burden position!)
Blowing up the bridge would be a good start - though I would wait till every
'Skye bastard' was safely home first. In fact I would make certain of it.
Lesley Robertson
>
> >
> Why? what did she do
>
her in a hotel on Skye and was informed that she wouldn't be welcome any
more since the locals didn't like her mocking them.... It seems that they
thought they could recognise some of the characters.
Lesley Robertson
Murdo
You mean... you mean someone lied to me when he/she told me the above?
I shall never trust anyone from Mellon Udrigle again.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
.>
> I shall never trust anyone from Mellon Udrigle again.
They are a right dodgy lot in Mellon Charles too - 'specially that family of
7 brothers.
Murdo
<grawi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Murdo" <mu...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:8r3huucposviiepm3...@4ax.com...
>.>
>> I shall never trust anyone from Mellon Udrigle again.
>
>They are a right dodgy lot in Mellon Charles too - 'specially that family of
>7 brothers.
I don't know the seven brothers of Mellon Charles, but I thank you for
the warning.
Let me in turn warn you against a Mrs. van Driel who is probably dead
by now, but who lived on the Bay of Plenty 20 years ago and
specialized in marrying elderly wealthy gents close to their expiry
date and getting her name inserted into their wills.
Neacalban1
>Bheil thu tannasg no duine? Bheil
>thu deagh no droch dhuine?
Carson nach chanadh sibh "an e tannasg no duine a th'annad"? agus " bheil thu
'nad deagh no droch dhuine" . Cho fad's a tha fhios 'am, chan fhaod neach
"tha/a bheil" a chleachdadh eadar da rud mar sin. Chan eil mise air a bhith a
leughadh postaichean an seo bho chionn fhada,agus chan eil a 'Ghaidhlig agam
bhon ghluin, ach tha mi fileanta gu leor a bhith air Reidio nan Gaidheal(aig am
a'Mhoid an Steornabhaigh an uiridh.
>Chan eil, tha i Ghearmailteach.
>Bheil i Shasannach?
an aite 'se Gearmailteach a th'innte
An e Sasannach a th'innte?
Ma se neach-Gaidhlig a th'annadsa bho thus, agus a 'Ghaidhlig agad bhon ghluin,
duinidh mise mo ghob..... :-) Neacal
Murdo
>A'Mhurchaidh,
>
>>Bheil thu tannasg no duine? Bheil
>>thu deagh no droch dhuine?
>
>Carson nach chanadh sibh "an e tannasg no duine a th'annad"?
Is urrain dhuit sin a chan, tha mi creidsinn.
>" bheil thu 'nad deagh no droch dhuine" .
Chan eil fhios agam lagh a' ghràmair air, ach tha mi creidsinn gu 'n
chanteadh iad airson na ceàirdean agus na dreuchd, mar eiseimpleir,
tha mi 'nam shaor.
>Cho fad's a tha fhios 'am, chan fhaod neach
>"tha/a bheil" a chleachdadh eadar da rud mar sin. Chan eil mise air a bhith a
>leughadh postaichean an seo bho chionn fhada,agus chan eil a 'Ghaidhlig agam
>bhon ghluin, ach tha mi fileanta gu leor a bhith air Reidio nan Gaidheal(aig am
>a'Mhoid an Steornabhaigh an uiridh.
Chan eil fhios agam. Chan eil agam ach a'Ghàidhlig mo leanabhaichd
leth-cheud bliadhn' air ais agus cha robh mi anns an taigh na sgoile
gu bràth.
Neacalban1
>Chan eil fhios agam. Chan eil agam ach a'Ghàidhlig mo leanabhaichd
>leth-cheud bliadhn' air ais agus cha robh mi anns an taigh na sgoile
>gu bràth.
Mar sin, gu de an aois aig an robh sibh comasach air Gaidhlig a'sgriobhadh?(
Agus mise nach eil comasach air stracan a ghabhail ann air a'choimpiutair :-)
Tha fios agam gu bheil doigh air choireigin ann, ach chan eil mi fhathast ga
h-ionnsachadh....
> mar eiseimpleir,
>tha mi 'nam shaor.
Sin e direach, tha mi 'nam dhotair,'nam sheoladair,a.m.s.a.a..
>Chan eil fhios agam. Chan eil agam ach a'Ghàidhlig mo leanabhaichd
>leth-cheud bliadhn' air ais agus cha robh mi anns an taigh na sgoile
>gu bràth.
Uill, ceart gu leor. bidh rudan agad nach cuala mi riamh,tha mi cinnteach. Tha
cuid de na fileantaich mun cuairt nach eil comasach air sgriobhadh no leughadh
nas motha.(ach chan eil mi airson naire a chur orra) Dh'ionnsaich mi moran le
Catriona Parsons(an Ceap Breatuinn, aig a'Cholaisde Ghaidhlig) agus 'se
Leodhasach a th'innte-se(ged nach eil i a teagasg a dual-chainnt-fhein do na
h-oileanaich an toiseach.) le speis, Neacal
Murdo
>A"Mhurchaidh Choir,
> >Chan eil fhios agam. Chan eil agam ach a'Ghàidhlig mo leanabhaichd
>>leth-cheud bliadhn' air ais agus cha robh mi anns an taigh na sgoile
>>gu bràth.
>
>Mar sin, gu de an aois aig an robh sibh comasach air Gaidhlig a'sgriobhadh?
Coig bliadhn' air ais, ach chan eil mi socrach leatha. Nuair a bha mi
'nam bhalachan òg, bha toil mhòr agam a bhith ag eisdeachd ri
conaltradh nam bodach agus bha mi ag ionnsachadh mo Ghàidhlig ri
còmhradh fileanta am beòil. Ach cha robh iad a' sgriobhadh Gàidhlig,
bha iad a' labhairt...
Murchadh.