Stone of Destiny: wasn't it broken?

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James McGowan

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Dec 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/2/96
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Just what is the correct story?

I heard that when the Stone was nicked by the students they actually
managed to break it into three pieces in transit, but seeing it on
the telly, albeit from a distance through the Pope-mobile, it looked
intact.

Was it broken? Or was this just propaganda to turn us against the
would-be theives? Has it been restored? Or is it just a replica,
and the real one really is still hidden, or at Tara?

Anyone with any idea, please follow-up, I'm curious.

J.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James McGowan : misanthrope, poet, detached observer of human misbehaviour
-----------------------------------------+------------------------------------
He's curled into the corner . IRC nicks: Saracen LodeRunnr
But still the screen is flickering . Skeptical TheBigYin
With an endless stream of garbage to .
.......curse the place. . http://www.sarsen.demon.co.uk/
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Craig Cockburn

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Dec 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/3/96
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Ann an sgriobhainn <849558...@sarsen.demon.co.uk>, sgriobh James
McGowan <Ja...@sarsen.demon.co.uk>

>Was it broken? Or was this just propaganda to turn us against the
>would-be theives? Has it been restored? Or is it just a replica,
>and the real one really is still hidden, or at Tara?
>
it was repaired, but not very well
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"), Du\n E/ideann, Alba. (Edinburgh, Scotland)
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~craig/
Sgri\obh thugam 'sa Gha\idhlig ma 'se do thoil e.

John J. Armstrong

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Dec 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/3/96
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In article <849558...@sarsen.demon.co.uk>,
Ja...@sarsen.demon.co.uk (James McGowan) wrote:

>Just what is the correct story?

That is the $64,000 question.


>
>I heard that when the Stone was nicked by the students they actually
>managed to break it into three pieces in transit, but seeing it on
>the telly, albeit from a distance through the Pope-mobile, it looked
>intact.
>

Cement? Glue? Who can say?

I think the students found that the stone was broken when they went to
remove it.


>Was it broken? Or was this just propaganda to turn us against the
>would-be theives? Has it been restored? Or is it just a replica,
>and the real one really is still hidden, or at Tara?
>

>Anyone with any idea, please follow-up, I'm curious.


It may well be a replica. There's no guarantee that the stone returned in
1951 was the same as the one which was removed. I certainly wouldn't trust
anything that the English establishment told - or tell - us. And I include
governor general Forsyth in the Eng. est.

John J. Armstrong
Dundee
Scotland
"Indecision is the key to flexibility."

Lindsey Burne

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Dec 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/5/96
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John J. Armstrong (jjarm...@sol.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <849558...@sarsen.demon.co.uk>,
: Ja...@sarsen.demon.co.uk (James McGowan) wrote:

: >Just what is the correct story?

: That is the $64,000 question.
: >
: >I heard that when the Stone was nicked by the students they actually
: >managed to break it into three pieces in transit, but seeing it on
: >the telly, albeit from a distance through the Pope-mobile, it looked
: >intact.

: >


I cannot reveal my source on this (ok, a son of one of the students in
question). He said they dropped it on the way out of the Abbey, and it broke,
but only along lines that were already there. (As in, it had been broken
and put back together). As for the authenticity of the current Stone, he
didn't know for sure, but probably it's not the real one. The question I have
is, what does this mean for the Queen's 1953 (?) coronation?

Anyone know where I can read more about all this? Occasionally I wonder
if my friend was pulling my leg...

-Lindsey

Craig Cockburn

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Dec 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/5/96
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Ann an sgriobhainn <AECA09DF...@dial1-port21.sol.co.uk>, sgriobh
"John J. Armstrong" <jjarm...@sol.co.uk>

>
>It may well be a replica. There's no guarantee that the stone returned in
>1951 was the same as the one which was removed. I certainly wouldn't trust
>anything that the English establishment told - or tell - us. And I include
>governor general Forsyth in the Eng. est.
>
I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that the
stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they still
have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.

Timothy Ferguson

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Dec 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/6/96
to Craig Cockburn

Craig Cockburn wrote:
>
> Ann an sgriobhainn <849558...@sarsen.demon.co.uk>, sgriobh James
> McGowan <Ja...@sarsen.demon.co.uk>
> >Was it broken? Or was this just propaganda to turn us against the
> >would-be theives? Has it been restored? Or is it just a replica,
> >and the real one really is still hidden, or at Tara?
> >
> it was repaired, but not very well

The Stone of Destiny in Tara and the Scots stone of Destiny are two
separate stones. The Innis fail did break, yes.

Jim Reid

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Dec 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/6/96
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Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> writes:

> I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that the
> stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
> was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they still
> have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.

Who gives a shit?

The human race has explored outer space and shrunk the world with jet
travel and staggering advances in telecommunications. Medical science
has made incredible process, eliminating diseases such as polio and
smallpox.

Here we are yakking on about a bit of rock that some gobshites might
have stood or sat on (or maybe not) hundreds of years ago as part of
some mediaeval ritual, even though this has no relevance or
significance on anything today. Is this the best soc.culture.scottish
can come up with? Even the tripe about deep fried pizza or Braveheart
is better than this nonsense about a rock.


gordon....@comlab.ox.ac.uk

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Dec 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/6/96
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In <os682gc...@heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be>, Jim Reid <r...@heron.pst.cfmu.eurocontrol.be> writes:
>Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that the
>> stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
>> was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they still
>> have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.
>
>Who gives a shit?


I believe I voiced a similar opinion when the first announcement of its return was
made. I was chastisted for not understanding "symbolism".

I did have a think about that afterwards and felt that I did not, indeed,
understand the "symbolism" involved in the return of a rock
on which Kings and Queens of the Scots (or Scotland) were Crowned.

Sure it may have some historical significance - about as much as the
Scottish Crown Jewels beside which the Rock is being kept. As a living
"ideal" of Scottish independence it is a worthless relic.

Getting it back means nothing. It involves no more control and suggests
no lessening of the "Union". Indeed as a "symbol" it seems to me to
actually reinforce Scottish "subjugation" in the Union.

I'm with Jim.


John J. Armstrong

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Dec 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/6/96
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In article <586kqj$k...@news.bu.edu>,
lbu...@bu.edu (Lindsey Burne) wrote:

As for the authenticity of the current Stone, he
>didn't know for sure, but probably it's not the real one. The question I have
>is, what does this mean for the Queen's 1953 (?) coronation?


The Queen's coronation (June 1953) was a travesty anyway. She succeeded in
getting the backs of all right thinking Scots up by taking the wrong title.

Bill Bedford

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Dec 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/7/96
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Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Ann an sgriobhainn <AECA09DF...@dial1-port21.sol.co.uk>, sgriobh
> "John J. Armstrong" <jjarm...@sol.co.uk>
> >
> >It may well be a replica. There's no guarantee that the stone returned in
> >1951 was the same as the one which was removed. I certainly wouldn't trust
> >anything that the English establishment told - or tell - us. And I include
> >governor general Forsyth in the Eng. est.
> >

> I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that the
> stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
> was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they still
> have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.

Will that be in the same cave as King Arthur?

--
Bill Bedford bi...@mousa.demon.co.uk Shetland
Brit_Rail-L list auto...@mousa.demon.co.uk
Looking forward to 2001 -
When the world is due to start thinking about the future again.

Dania E Strong

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Dec 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/7/96
to

John J. Armstrong (jjarm...@sol.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <1996120707...@mousa.demon.co.uk>,
: bi...@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) wrote:
:
: >Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:

Is there any books or articles concerning the theft of
the stone? I imagine it would make a great story, or a movie for that matter.
I bet if there hasn't been one made yet there will be soon. It would have
everything a blockbuster needs, laughs, tears, nationalistic passion..

D.E.S

David Sneddon

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Dec 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/7/96
to

John J. Armstrong wrote:
>
> In article <1996120707...@mousa.demon.co.uk>,
> bi...@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) wrote:
>
> >Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that the
> >> stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
> >> was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they still
> >> have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.
> >
> >Will that be in the same cave as King Arthur?
>
> No. King Arthur is living down a disused coal mine. He went there after
> the miners' strike collapsed in the 80s.

>
> John J. Armstrong
> Dundee
> Scotland
> "Indecision is the key to flexibility."

I believe he is sharing it with Robert Bruce and a spider.

David

Craig Cockburn

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Dec 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/8/96
to

Ann an sgriobhainn <1996120707...@mousa.demon.co.uk>, sgriobh
Bill Bedford <bi...@mousa.demon.co.uk>

>Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Ann an sgriobhainn <AECA09DF...@dial1-port21.sol.co.uk>, sgriobh
>> "John J. Armstrong" <jjarm...@sol.co.uk>
>> >
>> >It may well be a replica. There's no guarantee that the stone returned in
>> >1951 was the same as the one which was removed. I certainly wouldn't trust
>> >anything that the English establishment told - or tell - us. And I include
>> >governor general Forsyth in the Eng. est.
>> >
>> I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that the
>> stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
>> was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they still
>> have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.
>
>Will that be in the same cave as King Arthur?
>
No, the one the Loch Ness Monster uses for the alien spacecraft which
flies Elvis around.

Craig Cockburn

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Dec 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/8/96
to

Ann an sgriobhainn <32a9e...@robby.oit.umass.edu>, sgriobh Dania E
Strong <da...@emily.oit.umass.edu>

>John J. Armstrong (jjarm...@sol.co.uk) wrote:
>: In article <1996120707...@mousa.demon.co.uk>,
>: bi...@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) wrote:
>:
>: >Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:
>
>Is there any books or articles concerning the theft of
>the stone? I imagine it would make a great story, or a movie for that matter.
>I bet if there hasn't been one made yet there will be soon. It would have
>everything a blockbuster needs, laughs, tears, nationalistic passion..
>
There's loads of info on it - a great deal was written about it at the
time and there's several famous songs about the exploit, including one
in Gaelic recorded by Dick Gaughan with Clan Alba.

gi...@aol.com

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Dec 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/8/96
to

In article <WUT8UIAg...@scot.demon.co.uk>, Craig Cockburn
<cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> writes:

>>> I have heard several independent stories and people telling me that
the
>>> stone taken 700 years ago was a fake - the real one had writing on it,
>>> was actually sat on and was hidden by the Knights Templar and they st

>>> have it. It's being kept in Scotland at a secret location.
>>
>>Will that be in the same cave as King Arthur?
>>
>No, the one the Loch Ness Monster uses for the alien spacecraft which
>flies Elvis around.

ohmigawd, Mr Cockburn wrote something funny! It must
be gettin near holdiay.

Thanks for the giggle. When Elvis drops in for his doughnut
tomorrow
I will tell him you mentioned his name.
georgette
.

**************************************************************************
gi...@aol.com "Anguished Divinity is Yours"

c...@btinternet.com

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Dec 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/14/96
to

da...@emily.oit.umass.edu (Dania E Strong) wrote:

>John J. Armstrong (jjarm...@sol.co.uk) wrote:
>: In article <1996120707...@mousa.demon.co.uk>,
>: bi...@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford) wrote:
>:
>: >Craig Cockburn <cr...@scot.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:
>
>Is there any books or articles concerning the theft of
>the stone? I imagine it would make a great story, or a movie for that matter.
>I bet if there hasn't been one made yet there will be soon. It would have
>everything a blockbuster needs, laughs, tears, nationalistic passion..

>D.E.S

At least one very good book:

ISBN 1 871901 30 8
Publisher Gairm, 29 Waterloo Street, Glasgow G2 6BZ, Scotland
Date 1993
Author Domhnall Iain MacIomhair
Title A' Chlach


Craig Cockburn

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Dec 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/15/96
to

Ann an sgriobhainn <58tbgl$c...@snow.btinternet.com>, sgriobh
c...@btinternet.com

>>
>>Is there any books or articles concerning the theft of
>>the stone? I imagine it would make a great story, or a movie for that matter.
>>I bet if there hasn't been one made yet there will be soon. It would have
>>everything a blockbuster needs, laughs, tears, nationalistic passion..
>
>>D.E.S
>
>At least one very good book:
>
>ISBN 1 871901 30 8
>Publisher Gairm, 29 Waterloo Street, Glasgow G2 6BZ, Scotland
>Date 1993

and a very good song too, as written by Donald MacIntyre, the Paisley
stonemason. 5 verses have been recorded by Clan Alba and I now have the
full version thanks to the following info which Patsy sent me:

"This is only 5 of 20 verses printed
in SPORAN DHOMHNAILL gaelic poems and songs by Donald MacIntyre the
Paisley bard, published by Scottish Gaelic Text Society Edinburgh 1968.
This is one of a series of books of Gaelic poetry, which is usually
available from James Thin Edinburgh. However there is no English
translation in the book."

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