The Four Marys
Cameron Cunningham
I have another problem with the four Marys.
The line says Mary Beaton, Mary Seaton, Mary Carmichael and me.
Was Mary Livingston the 'me'? Why was she being put to death?
If someone can send me the full story I would be greatly appreciative.
Kindest regards
Cameron
_____________________________________________________________________________
Visit my Scottish History web site at :-
http://members.tripod.com/~CunninghamC/Homepage12_97/index.htm
There you will find Gateways and Links to National--Local--and Family History.
_________________________________________________________________
jkwill
Cameron Cunningham wrote in message ...
>Thank you to all who helped me with The Flower of Scotland.
>
>I have another problem with the four Marys.
>
>The line says Mary Beaton, Mary Seaton, Mary Carmichael and me.
>
>Was Mary Livingston the 'me'? Why was she being put to death?
>
>If someone can send me the full story I would be greatly appreciative.
>Kindest regards
>
>Cameron
a museum there.
afs...@fox.nstn.ca
<cam...@cameronc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Thank you to all who helped me with The Flower of Scotland.
>
>I have another problem with the four Marys.
>
>The line says Mary Beaton, Mary Seaton, Mary Carmichael and me.
>
>Was Mary Livingston the 'me'? Why was she being put to death?
>
>If someone can send me the full story I would be greatly appreciative.
>Kindest regards
>
>Cameron
>
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>
>Visit my Scottish History web site at :-
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~CunninghamC/Homepage12_97/index.htm
>
>There you will find Gateways and Links to National--Local--and Family History.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
I thought "me" was Mary Queen of Scots. That would be Mary Stuart.
Cameron Cunningham
>>_________________________________________________________________
>I thought "me" was Mary Queen of Scots. That would be Mary Stuart.
Thank you for your reply but it can't be Mary Queen of Scots.
the lines read:--
The Four Marys
Last night there were four Marys
Tonight there'll be but three
There was Mary Seaton and Mary Beaton
And Mary Carmichael and me.
Oh, often have I dressed my Queen
And put on her braw silk gown
But all the thanks I've got tonight
Is to be hanged in Edinburgh Town.
The mystery still remains.
afs...@fox.nstn.ca
I stand corrected. Mary Queen of Scots was the "fifth" Mary.
On raking about I came up with Mary Hamilton as the fourth Mary.
According to legend she had an affair with Lord Darnley and had an
illigitimate child which she drowned. She was then hanged for the
murder.
This is not a proven tale, but it sure sounds good.
Cameron Cunningham
>>_________________________________________________________________
>I stand corrected. Mary Queen of Scots was the "fifth" Mary.
>
>On raking about I came up with Mary Hamilton as the fourth Mary.
>According to legend she had an affair with Lord Darnley and had an
>illigitimate child which she drowned. She was then hanged for the
>murder.
>
>This is not a proven tale, but it sure sounds good.
Thank you. The best so far. Sounds plausible.
Joyce Miller in her wee book on Mary lists Marys---Seaton,
Beaton,Fleming and Livingston. No Carmichael and no Hamilton.
The mystery still remains. I will keep digging.
Cameron Cunningham
<cam...@cameronc.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <35fc59fb...@news.istar.ca>, afs...@fox.nstn.ca writes
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>I stand corrected. Mary Queen of Scots was the "fifth" Mary.
>>
>>On raking about I came up with Mary Hamilton as the fourth Mary.
>>According to legend she had an affair with Lord Darnley and had an
>>illigitimate child which she drowned. She was then hanged for the
>>murder.
>>
>>This is not a proven tale, but it sure sounds good.
>
>
>Thank you. The best so far. Sounds plausible.
>
>Joyce Miller in her wee book on Mary lists Marys---Seaton,
>Beaton,Fleming and Livingston. No Carmichael and no Hamilton.
>
>The mystery still remains. I will keep digging.
After posting the above I found another version that supports the Mary
Hamilton story .
Last night there were four Marys
Tonight there'll be but three:
There was Mary Seaton and Mary Beaton
And Mary Carmichael and me.
2. Word's gane tae the kitchen
And word's gane tae the hall
That Mary Hamilton's great wi' child
By the highest Stewart of a'
3. Arise, arise, Mary Hamilton
Arise and come wi' me
There is a wedding in Glasgow town
This night we'll go and see
4. She put nae on her robes of black
Nor yet her robes of brown
But she put on her gown of white
Tae ride into Glasgow town
5. Oh, often hae I dressed my Queen
And put on her braw silk gown
But all the thanks I've got tonight
Is to be hanged in Glasgow Town.
Four more verses but still left with who was Mary Carmichael and was
Darnley considered the 'Highest Stewart in the land'? In this version
the scene also moves to Glasgow. There is no mention of this incident in
the biography of Darnley that I have.
Any further help will be appreciated.
Cameron Cunningham
I have now been on to the archivist and the major local historian for
West Lothian. There is a Pub in Linlithgow called the 'Four Marys' and
Livingston, one of the reputed Marys was Mary Livingston, was the Earl
of Linlithgow.
Anyway to cut a long story short it would seem that the ballad
originates in the court of Peter the Great in Russia around 1690 and has
been adapted to tell the story of Mary Queen of Scots' maids of honour
using a large amount of poetic licence.
Tomorrow I will attempt to confirm this. For the moment the water
remains muddy.
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<cam...@cameronc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| Back again with the latest in my researches.
|
| I have now been on to the archivist and the major local historian for
| West Lothian. There is a Pub in Linlithgow called the 'Four Marys' and
| Livingston, one of the reputed Marys was Mary Livingston, was the Earl
| of Linlithgow.
|
| Anyway to cut a long story short it would seem that the ballad
| originates in the court of Peter the Great in Russia around 1690 and has
| been adapted to tell the story of Mary Queen of Scots' maids of honour
| using a large amount of poetic licence.
The song was originally called "Mary Hamilton" although the popular name
is the 4 Marys. They were Mary Seaton, Mary Carmichael, Mary Hamilton and
Mary Beaton. MAry Hamilton had an affair with the King by whom she had a
child. She killed the child and was executed. Here's the full words.
MARY HAMILTON
Word is to the kitchen gone
And word is to the hall,
And word is up to Madam the Queen
And that's the worst of all,
That Mary Hamilton's born a babe to the highest Stuart of all
"Arise, arise, Mary Hamilton,
Arise and tell to me,
What thou hast done with thy wee babe
I saw and heard weep by thee?"
"I put him in a tiny boat,
And cast him out to sea,
That he might sink or he might swim,
But he'd never come back to me."
"Arise, arise, Mary Hamilton,
Arise and come with me;
There is a wedding in Glasgow town
This night we'll go and see."
She put not on her robes of black,
Nor her robes of brown,
But she put on robes of white,
To ride into Glasgow town.
And as she rode into Glasgow town,
The city for to see,
The bailiff's wife and the provost's wife
Cried, "Ach, and alas for thee."
"Ah, you need not weep for me," she cried
"You need not weep for me;
For had I not slain my own wee babe
This death I would not dee."
"Ah, little did my mother think
When first she cradled me,
The lands I was to travel in
And the death I was to dee."
Then by and come the King himself,
Looked up with a pitiful eye,
"Come down, come down, Mary Hamilton,
Tonight you'll dine with me."
"Ah, hold your tongue, my sovereign liege,
And let your folly be;
For if you'd a mind to save my life
You'd never have shamed me here."
"Cast off, cast off my gown," she cried,
"But let my petticoat be,
And tie a napkin 'round my face;
The gallows I would not see."
"Last night I washed the Queen's feet,
And put the gold on her hair,
And the only reward I find for this,
The gallows to be my share."
"Last night there were four Marys,
Tonight there'll be but three,
There was Mary Beaton, and Mary Seaton,
And Mary Carmichael, and me."
Someone else made a reference to the fact that the song may have originated
in Russia. This is possible as the 16th C Mary Queen of Scots even has an
18thC Russian parallel at the court of Czar Peter but it's virtually
impossible to pin down the date the song was actually written as it has been
so heavily altered. The song is is frequently truncated to just the last
two verses by modern folk singers, leaving the listner baffled as to
why she is being executed. This also explains where the alternate "4 Marys"
title comes from.
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<cam...@cameronc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|
| After posting the above I found another version that supports the Mary
| Hamilton story .
Yup..and this is a much older version of the song. I suspect this is
the original as it has many more verses and is written in Scots unlike the
contemporary Mary Hamilton or the truncated 4 Marys. Same tune though. It
was recorded by Jean Redpath in this form and, in my humble opinion, is a
much,
much better version than either of the contemporary versions.
Mary Hamilton's tae the kirk gane
Wi' ribbons in her hair
And the King thocht mair o' Mary Hamilton
Than ony that was there
Mary Hamilton's tae the kirk gane
Wi' ribbons at her breist
And the king thocht mair o' Mary Hamilton
Than he listened tae the priest
Mary Hamilton's tae the kirk gane
Wi' ribbons in her hand
And the King thocht mair o' Mary Hamilton
Than the Queen and a' her land
She hadnae been aboot the King's court
A month but barely ane
When she was beloved by a' the King's court
And the King the only man
She hadnae been aboot the King's court
A month but barely three
When fae the King's court Mary Hamilton
Mary Hamilton dursna be
The King is tae the abbey gane
Tae pu' the abbey tree
And scale the babe fae Mary's heart
But the thing it wouldnae be
She's rowed it in her apron
And she's set it in the sea, sayin'
"Gae sink ye or swim, ye bonnie babe
Ye'se get nae mair o' me"
But word is tae the kitchen gane
And word is tae the Ha'
That Mary Hamilton's brocht tae bed
And the bonnie babe 's missed and awa'
For scarce had she lain doon again
And scarcely fa'en asleep
When up there started oor guid Queen
And stood at her bed's feet, sayin'
"Whaur's yer babe, Mary Hamilton?
For I'm sure I heard it greet"
"Oh no, oh no, my noble Queen
Think nae sic thing tae be
Twas but a stitch intae my side
And sair it troubled me"
"Get up, get up, Mary Hamilton
Get up and follow me
For I am gaun tae Edinburgh toon
A rich weddin' for tae see"
Oh slowly, slowly rase she up
And slowly put she on
And slowly rad she oot the way
Wi' mony's the weary groan
"Ride hooly, hooly, gentlemen
Ride hooly noo wi' me
For never, I'm sure, a wearier bird
Rade in your company"
The Queen was clad in scarlet
Her merry maids a' in green
And ilka toon that they padded through
Took Mary for the Queen
"Why weep ye so, ye burgess wives?
Why look ye so on me
For I am gaun tae Edinburgh toon
A rich weddin' for tae see"
But little wist Mary Hamilton
When she rade on the brown
That she was gaun tae Edinburgh toon
A' tae be put down
For when she rade through the Netherbow Port
She laughed loud laughters three
But lang e'er she cam' by again
The tears blinded her e'e
When she gaed up the Tolbooth steps
The corks fae her heels did flee
But lang e'er she cam' doon again
She was condemned to dee
Yestreen the Queen had four Maries
This nicht she'll hae but three
There was Mary Beaton and Mary Seaton
And Mary Carmichael and me
It's aften hae I dressed my Queen
And put gold in her hair
But noo I've gotten as my reward
The gallows tae be my share