The origin of s.c.s.

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Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 6:18:43 AM3/30/04
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http://open-systems.ufl.edu/mirrors/ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/soc/soc.culture.scottish

and, no doubt many other places on the internet.

May 1995, I note. I think I first started posting about July 1995.

------
Ian O.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 6:36:44 AM3/30/04
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Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
are a few familiar names. There is even one regular here who voted "No"!

What is significant, I think, is the fact that a large proportion of the
votes was clearly coming from academic establishments. It must have been
almost exactly the time that Usenet changed.

Glenallan

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Mar 30, 2004, 7:14:38 AM3/30/04
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"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

> Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
> to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
> are a few familiar names. There is even one regular here who voted "No"!
>
> What is significant, I think, is the fact that a large proportion of the
> votes was clearly coming from academic establishments. It must have been
> almost exactly the time that Usenet changed.
> ------
> Ian O.


Interesting!
I am not a Churl. [That is to say...not given to Churlishness. ;-) ]
If there is a voting system, and by definition, a group who permit,
authorise, and ...wait for it...control the voting procedure, is that
not some elemental form of Control.

So. Who are these people? Whom do they represent?, and in
2004 should they still have the same rights and privileges as in 1995.

For example, do we require their permission to access their servers?
Can they refuse access? (presumably..yes) If that is not the very
bare bones of Control, then I don't know what is?

So, let me ask, in view of this, does the "anarchic, nebulous"
analogy of Usenet stand up to scrutiny.?

Where is Usenet going? Is there a 'Plan'? If so...Whose?

Glenallan
---------


KMCM

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Mar 30, 2004, 7:49:09 AM3/30/04
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"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:406964b0$0$14401$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...

> Interesting!
> I am not a Churl. [That is to say...not given to Churlishness. ;-) ]
> If there is a voting system, and by definition, a group who permit,
> authorise, and ...wait for it...control the voting procedure, is that
> not some elemental form of Control.

There is a voting system the rules and definitions are in the earlier link
posted by Neb. The group who send out the voting message do not themselves
have control over the voting. Their job is to collate the replies and
publish the decision as voted for by the public. There may be more specific
info on this, such as one group of admins look after the comp.* newsgroups
etc.

> So. Who are these people? Whom do they represent?, and in
> 2004 should they still have the same rights and privileges as in 1995.

Dont know who they are. They should have the same rights (which are limited
anyway) unless you see a need to improve on what we have already. Other than
newsgroup creation/deletion/spam busting (very limited) they have no job as
such on a daily basis regarding what goes on in usenet.

> For example, do we require their permission to access their servers?
> Can they refuse access? (presumably..yes) If that is not the very
> bare bones of Control, then I don't know what is?

Your ISP allows access or University of Berlin or any other provider who is
able to store newgroups and allow access. Your ISP could block you but then
you would simply move on to another provider. To that end, some providers
obviously do grant permission by way of your monthly ISP fee. A blanket
refusal to usenet would be impossible.

>
> So, let me ask, in view of this, does the "anarchic, nebulous"
> analogy of Usenet stand up to scrutiny.?
>
> Where is Usenet going?

Nowhere, fast! It works, we post messages (+images), we read them. Thats
usenet.

>Is there a 'Plan'? If so...Whose?

Not that I am aware of.

Kevin.


S Viemeister

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Mar 30, 2004, 8:37:03 AM3/30/04
to
Ian Morrison wrote:
>
> Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
> to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
> are a few familiar names. There is even one regular here who voted "No"!
>
Are you the Ian Morrison who was a member of ScotTalk?

Sheila

Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 8:51:08 AM3/30/04
to
"S Viemeister" <firstname...@which.net> wrote in message
news:406977FF...@which.net

Maybe. What's ScotTalk?

DocAay

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Mar 30, 2004, 9:03:55 AM3/30/04
to

"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:406964b0$0$14401$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Interesting!
> I am not a Churl. [That is to say...not given to Churlishness. ;-) ]
> If there is a voting system, and by definition, a group who permit,
> authorise, and ...wait for it...control the voting procedure, is that
> not some elemental form of Control.
>
> So. Who are these people? Whom do they represent?, and in
> 2004 should they still have the same rights and privileges as in 1995.
>
> For example, do we require their permission to access their servers?
> Can they refuse access? (presumably..yes) If that is not the very
> bare bones of Control, then I don't know what is?
>
> So, let me ask, in view of this, does the "anarchic, nebulous"
> analogy of Usenet stand up to scrutiny.?
>
> Where is Usenet going? Is there a 'Plan'? If so...Whose?
>
> Glenallan
> ---------

As has been pointed out the votes for creation of scs came primarily from
academic institutions. I work in an academic institution and I know who is
in charge, it's undergraduates. These people are the cogs in the large
wheel. Administrators and Deans are much too busy trying to find money to
fund the athletic department so all the day-to-day decisions are left in the
hands of 'work/study' funded undergrads, many of them who don't speak
English, even if they are native born. Luckily most of them leave after six
or seven years and we get a new crop in.
So, there you have who created scs.

Doc


Bryn Fraser

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Mar 30, 2004, 10:52:59 AM3/30/04
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In message <544276c8b8917586a8...@mygate.mailgate.org>,
Ian Morrison <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> writes

>"S Viemeister" <firstname...@which.net> wrote in message
>news:406977FF...@which.net
>
>> Ian Morrison wrote:
>> >
>> > Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
>> > to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
>> > are a few familiar names. There is even one regular here who voted "No"!
>> >
>> Are you the Ian Morrison who was a member of ScotTalk?
>
>Maybe. What's ScotTalk?

That's a very guarded response, Ian...
>

--
Bryn Fraser

Bartlett for President!!!

http://www.finhall.demon.co.uk
http://www.thefrasers.com

Glenallan

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Mar 30, 2004, 11:15:54 AM3/30/04
to

"Bryn Fraser" <br...@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote

> >> Are you the Ian Morrison who was a member of ScotTalk?
> >
> >Maybe. What's ScotTalk?
>
> That's a very guarded response, Ian...

> Bryn Fraser

Yes, I agree
It sounds like a clandestine quasi-political cabal.

Glenallan
---------


S Viemeister

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Mar 30, 2004, 11:17:24 AM3/30/04
to
Ian Morrison wrote:
>
> "S Viemeister" <firstname...@which.net> wrote
> > Are you the Ian Morrison who was a member of ScotTalk?
>
> Maybe. What's ScotTalk?
>
To quote from the website:

"ScotTalk is a mailing list for people interested in contemporary Scottish
Issues. It is open to anyone who believes in the self-determination of the
people of Scotland through their democratic right to decide on the form of
their own parliament and constitution and on the attainment of such through
peaceful democratic means."

Helen Ramsay

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Mar 30, 2004, 11:22:35 AM3/30/04
to
"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

> Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would
like
> to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there.
There
> are a few familiar names.

I only recognised five.

>There is even one regular here who voted "No"!

I noticed that:) as well as one familiar name in the "votes in error"
group.

> What is significant, I think, is the fact that a large proportion of
the
> votes was clearly coming from academic establishments. It must have
been
> almost exactly the time that Usenet changed.

With the cursory look that I gave the list, it seemed to me there were
loads of Canadian addresses.

--
Cheers, Helen
hramsay at cogeco dot ca


Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 11:53:58 AM3/30/04
to
"S Viemeister" <firstname...@which.net> wrote in message
news:40699D94...@which.net

> "ScotTalk is a mailing list for people interested in contemporary Scottish
> Issues. It is open to anyone who believes in the self-determination of the
> people of Scotland through their democratic right to decide on the form of
> their own parliament and constitution and on the attainment of such through
> peaceful democratic means."

I thought we had pretty much done that. A Parliament of our own
certainly was a political objective of mine through the 90s, even to the
extent of going on a march in Edinburgh. But I can't remember ScotTalk
at all*, and it didn't seem to be working when I went there a while ago.
Is it defunct - ScotTalk, I mean, not the Scottish Parliament?

Did it ever debate the likely cost of erecting a building to house our
Parliamentarians?

* just because I can't remember doesn't mean I didn't!

Glenallan

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Mar 30, 2004, 12:19:36 PM3/30/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:41cbdbd2e559c2a93b...@mygate.mailgate.org...

Bryn Fraser was right.
A totally evasive answer. :-)

"No, Ms Viemeister, I stand on the Fifth Amendment.
If ScotTalk existed I may have been a member but not necessarily
since I cannot remember and even if I did I am not going to tell
you and you can say what you like. Who is ScotTalk.anyhow.?"

"It sounds like a clandestine quasi-political cabal, Mr Morrison"

"Say what you like I have never been a member of the Communist
Party, sorry ScotTalk, ever. You're trying to confuse me Woman!!

"Take him down...obviously Guilty as charged!"

G
--


Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 1:20:21 PM3/30/04
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"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:4069ac36$0$22102$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com

> "No, Ms Viemeister, I stand on the Fifth Amendment.

Do we have a Fifth Amendment? Amendment to what? What are the first
four? Are there any after the Fifth?

I am highly sceptical, so I suspect I must have some ancestors from
Missouri.

> If ScotTalk existed I may have been a member but not necessarily
> since I cannot remember and even if I did I am not going to tell
> you and you can say what you like. Who is ScotTalk.anyhow.?"
>
> "It sounds like a clandestine quasi-political cabal, Mr Morrison"
>
> "Say what you like I have never been a member of the Communist
> Party, sorry ScotTalk, ever. You're trying to confuse me Woman!!

I was a member of the Edinburgh University Communist Society for a few
months, until I discovered that they were serious about Marxist economic
theory, and weren't plotting the Revolution.

> "Take him down...obviously Guilty as charged!"

I have been learning the arts of sophistry and dissembling from our
political masters, notably that cowardly hypocrite Mr Tony B Liar.

Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 1:23:17 PM3/30/04
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"Helen Ramsay" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4c6rv$2ccg9k$1...@ID-207901.news.uni-berlin.de

> With the cursory look that I gave the list, it seemed to me there were
> loads of Canadian addresses.

Yes, it seems that products of the Scottish diaspora were largely
responsible for s.c.s. The initial RFD came from a Brian Atkins, Hewlett
Packard, Fort Collins, Colorado.

Glenallan

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Mar 30, 2004, 2:44:29 PM3/30/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

> I was a member of the Edinburgh University Communist Society for a few
> months, until I discovered that they were serious about Marxist economic
> theory, and weren't plotting the Revolution.
>
> > "Take him down...obviously Guilty as charged!"
>
> I have been learning the arts of sophistry and dissembling from our
> political masters, notably that cowardly hypocrite Mr Tony B Liar.


"That's the last straw. off with his Pension Rights.!

Sally

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Mar 30, 2004, 3:31:13 PM3/30/04
to
"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1a59a0a2ef4c338355...@mygate.mailgate.org>...

> http://open-systems.ufl.edu/mirrors/ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/soc/soc.culture.scottish
>
> and, no doubt many other places on the internet.
>
> May 1995, I note. I think I first started posting about July 1995.
>
> ------
> Ian O.

Looking at the original charter, I would say we are fair and far off
the mark most of the time. Sal

Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 3:47:27 PM3/30/04
to
"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:4069ce1f$0$14400$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com

>
> "Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

> > I have been learning the arts of sophistry and dissembling from our


> > political masters, notably that cowardly hypocrite Mr Tony B Liar.
>
>
> "That's the last straw.

You can be such a wet blunkett....

> off with his Pension Rights.!

To what, precisely, do you object - my learning the political (black)
arts from the masters, or suggesting that St Tony is a cowardly
hypocrite?

And my pension rights are preserved (so I'm told). Meanwhile I believe I
am entitled to a not insubstantial "annual compensation payment" from my
employers, amounting to more than yer average pensioner gets in a decade
(allegedly, though my own mother seems to do pretty well from her three
pensions), so ya-boo-sucks to all you wage slaves out there....

Ian Morrison

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Mar 30, 2004, 3:50:15 PM3/30/04
to
"Sally" <esd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:b8bcd929.04033...@posting.google.com

> Looking at the original charter, I would say we are fair and far off
> the mark most of the time. Sal

You aren't seeing the REAL charter - preserved with the notorious and
sought after "Men of s.c.s" Calendar in a cellar somewhere on the right
hand side of the North Sea.

Love a Sheep

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Mar 30, 2004, 5:50:08 PM3/30/04
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"DocAay" <****docaye****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<40697e4a$0$17264$
> > ---------

>
> Luckily most of them leave after six
> or seven years and we get a new crop in.
> So, there you have who created scs.
>
> Doc

Six or seven years? They must be pretty thick. A degree is only 3
years in *ngland and 4 in Scotland - which country are you refering
to? I have neevr heard of Undergrads doing anything like this other
than drinking too much.

Ann Getty

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Mar 30, 2004, 10:05:54 PM3/30/04
to
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 6:36:44 -0500, Ian Morrison wrote
(in message <a16125cd15deb2b04f...@mygate.mailgate.org>):

> Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
> to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
> are a few familiar names. There is even one regular here who voted "No"!
>
> What is significant, I think, is the fact that a large proportion of the
> votes was clearly coming from academic establishments. It must have been
> almost exactly the time that Usenet changed.
>
> ------
> Ian O.
>

Fascinating - my brother-in-law's name is on that list, under the "yes"
votes.

Ann

S Viemeister

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Mar 30, 2004, 10:09:27 PM3/30/04
to
Ian Morrison wrote:

> But I can't remember ScotTalk
> at all*, and it didn't seem to be working when I went there a while ago.
> Is it defunct - ScotTalk, I mean, not the Scottish Parliament?
>

It suffered a major server crash, was out of commission for a number of
months, and is in the process of re-establishing itself at a different
domain.

> Did it ever debate the likely cost of erecting a building to house our
> Parliamentarians?
>

I don't recall.

> * just because I can't remember doesn't mean I didn't!
>

I had always assumed it was you - perhaps it was the other Ian Morrison.
There were a number of early ScotTalkers on the list of voters.

Sheila

Mike MacKinnon

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Mar 31, 2004, 2:17:45 AM3/31/04
to
"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1a59a0a2ef4c338355...@mygate.mailgate.org>...
> http://open-systems.ufl.edu/mirrors/ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/soc/soc.culture.scottish
>
> and, no doubt many other places on the internet.
>
> May 1995, I note. I think I first started posting about July 1995.
>
> ------
> Ian O.

This is all very strange. Is my memory playing tricks on me? I seem to
recall posting to SCS from Heriot Watt in 91/92? Is senility getting
to me at alst?

M

Ian O. Morrison

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Mar 31, 2004, 2:41:33 AM3/31/04
to
S Viemeister <firstname...@which.net> wrote in message news:<406A3667...@which.net>...

> I had always assumed it was you - perhaps it was the other Ian Morrison.

There are many others around - when I visited the Finlaggan
excavations on Islay (the first year, pre Time Team) there was another
Ian Morrison due the next day - an underwater archaeologist who
specialised in crannogs. An advisory visit to Paisley Museum coincided
with the anticipated imminent appearance of a Council plumber also
bearing my name. I attended a committee meeting of Comunn (sp?)
Eachdraidh a Nis, on Lewis, to give advice, and the Chair was another
Ian Morrison! All these occurrences caused a certain amount of
confusion. I should think there aren't too many Sheila Viemeisters
around. You are lucky.

> There were a number of early ScotTalkers on the list of voters.

When did ScotTalk start? Maybe it is what MikeMac remembers posting to
from HWU?

------
Ian O.

Glenallan

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Mar 31, 2004, 3:12:15 AM3/31/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4284cc4bd1df6cf8cd...@mygate.mailgate.org...

> "Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:4069ce1f$0$14400$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com
>
> >
> > "Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>
> > > I have been learning the arts of sophistry and dissembling from our
> > > political masters, notably that cowardly hypocrite Mr Tony B Liar.
> >
> >
> > "That's the last straw.
>
> You can be such a wet blunkett....
>
> > off with his Pension Rights.!
>
> To what, precisely, do you object - my learning the political (black)
> arts from the masters, or suggesting that St Tony is a cowardly
> hypocrite?

A fine repost! I can't top that.
If ever I meet you, I'll let you buy the drink.

G
--

Robert Peffers

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Mar 31, 2004, 3:40:29 AM3/31/04
to

"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:406a7d67$0$22111$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Don't you ever believe your pension rights are preserved, "Sunshine".

This reply comes from someone who is being taxed, (local and central), on a
pension he does not even get. Furthermore the DWP is docking a further
Ł8.25, (with no right to appeal), from my State Retirement Pension, (The Old
Age Pension), to claw back what they see as, "back tax". They are even now
claiming my current account is all, "savings". When these little jumped-up,
tin-pot, petty, (in more than one sense), officials decide to do something,
we mere mortals have, "No right of appeal".

I am taking them to court, though, and we will see what happens. Today I
await a home visit from a Fife Council Official about the matter. I want to
see the look on her face when I tell her to talk to my lawyer. I also intend
to tell her it is pointless me filling in their, "Council Tax Form", for
Fife Council does not believe what I put in the last one, 'else they would
not have used the false information coming from the DWP to override the true
information I gave.
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk
E-Mail:- b...@weedugpeffers50.freeserve.co.uk
(Tak oot the wee dug tae send e-mail).


---
Aa ootgannin screivings maun hae nae wee beasties wi thaim..
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 16/03/2004


Ian Morrison

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Mar 31, 2004, 3:51:27 AM3/31/04
to
"Robert Peffers" <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4e05u$u0v$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk

> Don't you ever believe your pension rights are preserved, "Sunshine".
>
> This reply comes from someone who is being taxed, (local and central), on a
> pension he does not even get. Furthermore the DWP is docking a further

> £8.25, (with no right to appeal), from my State Retirement Pension, (The Old


> Age Pension), to claw back what they see as, "back tax". They are even now
> claiming my current account is all, "savings". When these little jumped-up,
> tin-pot, petty, (in more than one sense), officials decide to do something,
> we mere mortals have, "No right of appeal".
>
> I am taking them to court, though, and we will see what happens. Today I
> await a home visit from a Fife Council Official about the matter. I want to
> see the look on her face when I tell her to talk to my lawyer. I also intend
> to tell her it is pointless me filling in their, "Council Tax Form", for
> Fife Council does not believe what I put in the last one, 'else they would
> not have used the false information coming from the DWP to override the true
> information I gave.

Ha! "Joined-up government" in action. Good luck with your battle. Are
you still a member of a union? If so, they could help. My union has an
"Associate Members" section for retired and unemployed ex-government
professionals, scientists and engineers. Bearing in mind what you have
said above, I think I'll make sure I remain a member if I do take early
retirement.

S Viemeister

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Mar 31, 2004, 8:39:30 AM3/31/04
to
"Ian O. Morrison" wrote:

> There are many others around - when I visited the Finlaggan
> excavations on Islay (the first year, pre Time Team) there was another
> Ian Morrison due the next day - an underwater archaeologist who
> specialised in crannogs. An advisory visit to Paisley Museum coincided
> with the anticipated imminent appearance of a Council plumber also
> bearing my name. I attended a committee meeting of Comunn (sp?)
> Eachdraidh a Nis, on Lewis, to give advice, and the Chair was another
> Ian Morrison! All these occurrences caused a certain amount of
> confusion. I should think there aren't too many Sheila Viemeisters
> around. You are lucky.
>

That's like Hugh Mackays in Sutherland!

> > There were a number of early ScotTalkers on the list of voters.
>
> When did ScotTalk start? Maybe it is what MikeMac remembers posting to
> from HWU?
>

Around 1995, I think.

Sheila

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Mar 31, 2004, 5:07:49 PM3/31/04
to
In message <1a59a0a2ef4c338355...@mygate.mailgate.org>,
Ian Morrison <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>http://open-systems.ufl.edu/mirrors/ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce

>.newgroups/soc/soc.culture.scottish
>
>and, no doubt many other places on the internet.
>
>May 1995, I note. I think I first started posting about July 1995.
>
Don't forget to mention the concurrent scotchat flamewar and the The
Republic of Scotland Affiliation!

--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). SiliconGlen.com Ltd. http://SiliconGlen.com
Home to the first online guide to Scotland, founded 1994.
Scottish FAQ, wedding info, website design, stop spam and more!

Robert Peffers

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Mar 31, 2004, 5:24:58 PM3/31/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6dced4bb0d2fd9223b...@mygate.mailgate.org...

> "Robert Peffers" <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c4e05u$u0v$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk
>
> > Don't you ever believe your pension rights are preserved, "Sunshine".
> >
> > This reply comes from someone who is being taxed, (local and central),
on a
> > pension he does not even get. Furthermore the DWP is docking a further
> > Ł8.25, (with no right to appeal), from my State Retirement Pension, (The
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
My Union is now AMACUS and I am a life time member. I was a shop steward for
over 20 years before the various amalgamations. Electrical trade Union to
Electrical and Electronic Trade Union to Electrical, Electronic and Plumbing
trade union to Electrical and Engineering Trade Union to AMICUS. I am in
contact with them. My MP is also the Chancellor, Gordon Brown. I e-mailed
him today. I also was an Employee of her Majesty's Royal Dockyard and I have
her Majesty's FAX number. This one could yet go a long way. There is nothing
more certain than that some little pen pusher somewhere has broken the law
for it can not be legal to tax someone for a pension they do not even get
and even more illegal to deny them the right of appeal. Och I do like a good
battle.<G>

Robert Peffers

unread,
Mar 31, 2004, 5:26:45 PM3/31/04
to

"Craig Cockburn" <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message
news:oE2l7tL1...@siliconglen.com...
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Hi Craig,
I wondered when you would arrive.

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Mar 31, 2004, 5:42:47 PM3/31/04
to
Long URLs alert, please rejoin wrapped lines for URLs to work

In message <4122177a.04033...@posting.google.com>, Mike
MacKinnon <michael....@acs-inc.com> writes

>>newgroups/soc/soc.culture.scottish
>>
>> and, no doubt many other places on the internet.
>>
>> May 1995, I note. I think I first started posting about July 1995.
>>
>> ------
>> Ian O.
>
>This is all very strange. Is my memory playing tricks on me? I seem to
>recall posting to SCS from Heriot Watt in 91/92? Is senility getting
>to me at alst?
>

Yes, here is the control starting the group

ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/control/soc/soc.culture.scottish

however see this reference to scs in 1992.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2OCT199212080676%40vxcrna.cern.ch&oe
=UTF-8&output=gplain

and

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=1992Oct4.082321.3797%40rdg.dec.com
&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

This is also of some relevance

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=1990Nov26.101634%40craigy.enet.dec
.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
(Scottish discussion group started in 1989)

and does anyone remember "News from Scotland"
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=1990No
v12.114944%40craigy.enet.dec.com

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=1990Oc
t18.110413%40craigy.enet.dec.com

or
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?selm=1990Oct30.120906%40craigy.enet.dec
.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Funny, trailblazing a British news service online several years ahead of
the BBC....

Mike MacKinnon

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 3:10:25 AM4/1/04
to
Craig Cockburn <cr...@SiliconGlen.com> wrote in message news:<DlC$zEPnl0...@siliconglen.com>...

Darn it Craig, you're right! It was SCC I was posting to! Weren't you
at Napier at that time?

M

Craig Cockburn

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 3:33:28 AM4/1/04
to
In message <4122177a.04040...@posting.google.com>, Mike
MacKinnon <michael....@acs-inc.com> writes
>

>Darn it Craig, you're right! It was SCC I was posting to! Weren't you
>at Napier at that time?
>
>M

I was there Feb 93 - Feb 94.

Glenallan

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 5:21:41 AM4/1/04
to

"Robert Peffers" <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote

> > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
> Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
> My Union is now AMACUS and I am a life time member. I was a shop steward
for
> over 20 years before the various amalgamations. Electrical trade Union to
> Electrical and Electronic Trade Union to Electrical, Electronic and
Plumbing
> trade union to Electrical and Engineering Trade Union to AMICUS. I am in
> contact with them. My MP is also the Chancellor, Gordon Brown. I e-mailed
> him today. I also was an Employee of her Majesty's Royal Dockyard and I
have
> her Majesty's FAX number. This one could yet go a long way. There is
nothing
> more certain than that some little pen pusher somewhere has broken the law
> for it can not be legal to tax someone for a pension they do not even get
> and even more illegal to deny them the right of appeal. Och I do like a
good
> battle.<G>
> --

No Robert, I do not think your pension is uppermost in
anyone's mind except your own. That is the sad reality.
The Chancellor and Her Majesty will never see your Fax,
and the 'little pen-pusher' will not visibly have broken any law.
In all probability it will be an effect of the same departmental inertia,
incompetence and administrative screw up that is evident in all
government bodies. Someone will have stuck a wrong number
in a column, missed or added a period, or, on a busy day,
just stuck your convoluted claim into the nearest waste bin
for a quiet life.

You could as Ian O. suggests take your details down
to your Union people who will stare at it with incomprehension.
Why take this out on the poor 'little pen pushers'.
They are just guddling through like everyone else in
Her Majesty's Dockyard..

Maybe you can arrange an appointment in the DWP office,
armed with all of your paperwork and ask them to walk
you through your own details on their computers.

My own experience of 'little pen pushers' is that by-and-
large they are just like you and would much prefer the
quiet life.

Show them where the mistake is and they'll fix it.
If you want to change government policy, of course,
you'll be wasting your time, and you won't be telling them
anything that they haven't heard before...before...before.

Glenallan
---------

Glenallan

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 5:31:34 AM4/1/04
to
PS.

Do not scribble offensive notes on forms.


Ian Morrison

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 7:58:48 AM4/1/04
to
"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:406bef85$0$22105$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com

> PS.
>
> Do not scribble offensive notes on forms.

Advice resulting from personal experience, I take it?

------
Ian O.
(waiting for an estimate of what he might be entitled to from the
underpaid pen-pushers at DWP)


--

Glenallan

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 8:56:51 AM4/1/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

> Ian O.
> (waiting for an estimate of what he might be entitled to from the
> underpaid pen-pushers at DWP)

Do not rush into too early retirement.
You will become instantly invisible and the only place where
any opinion you may have will count, will be on Usenet....
which is roughly between here and nowhere. You will take to
wearing a shell-suit and think it's attractive. You may well become
indistinquishable from all the people you ever held in contempt.
You will pick your nose and fart because what you do no longer
matters, and 'society' expects nothing of you.

Try to get useful employment lined up before making the decision.
Believe it or not, money isn't everything, and golf is over-rated.

In any event, I've seen your photie. You're too young.
You will only fall out with the wife and piss your money away.

G
--


Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 9:05:15 AM4/1/04
to

"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:406c1fa1$0$24220$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...

Jeeze, Robert, you got a video camera installed in my house or something?
Looks like a man can't even have any privacy in his declining years.

(BTW, what is a "shell suit" and where can I get one?)


Helen Ramsay

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 9:55:16 AM4/1/04
to
"Madra Dubh" <cca...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> "Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote

> > In any event, I've seen your photie. You're too young.
> > You will only fall out with the wife and piss your money away.
>
> Jeeze, Robert, you got a video camera installed in my house or
something?
> Looks like a man can't even have any privacy in his declining years.
>
> (BTW, what is a "shell suit" and where can I get one?)

I don't know what they're called here (or at least I can't think of it
at the moment), but a shell suit is made up of a zippered top and
loose pants ( like track pants) usually with elastic at the wrists
and ankles and made of nylon. You know what I mean, those ones that
sorta rustle as you walk:) Hang on ...

http://tinyurl.com/2uukf

--
Cheers, Helen
hramsay at cogeco dot ca


Robert Peffers

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 12:52:53 PM4/1/04
to

"Glenallan" <robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:406bed39$0$22124$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> .
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Sorry Robert but you are wrong. The matter is not quite\ as simple as you
think and has already had great implications. First up I do have several
names of fairly, "Hecht Heid Ains", who have put their signature to letters
I have before me now. Secondly they have indeed broken several laws, (and
not just civil law at that).

Furthermore the Rt Hon, Dr Gordon Brown. MP , (and Chancellor Of The
Exchequer), is my constituency MP and has regular surgeries in his
Constituency Office at Cowdenbeath. I will be at his next surgery and he
will read my letter or I will make a point of reading it to him. In my
pocket I will have a recorder and he will refuse to hear me at his political
peril. As to the whether Queen Elizabeth ever sees anything I write or not
is really not the point. What is the point is that Officially I spent my
whole working life in Her Majesty's Service and it is thus Her Majesty I
sue over the Pension issue.

If I do go to court over the matter then one of the people I must sue is Her
Majesty' The matter is already in the hands of a lawyer. Now remember one of
the things I am suing for is Discrimination against a disabled person.
AFAIAA. the law changed just this month and a legal precedent is not yet
set. I don't really give a damn if they just get off by back and give me my
money back. I now have Fife Council on the run. A Council Officer was due
to see me at home today but did not turn up for the appointment. She has not
contacted me and thus drives another nail into their coffin. So what if I
can't answer a telephone? I can accept a text message, an e-mail or a fax.
These are all readily available to any member of the public. They thus
discriminate against me by insisting I use a normal phone only, or they make
me use the special TextPhone for the deaf that then hangs a big label round
my neck inscribed with DEAF. Letters from the DWP that also don't have an
e-mail or FAX number and instruct me that I MUST phone a certain number also
breech my human rights and discriminate against me. It looks as if I may
indeed have a large handful of short and curlies. In the event I have never
had a halfpenny of the pension they claim I have and nothing they say or do
will negate that fact. So it stands that they either give me back what they
have deducted or they end in court and the country pays out my Dockyard
Pension.. I cannot lose for I either end up with my Dockyard Pension being
paid or I end up with the deductions back and the State Pension. One way or
another the country is due me money for the period in question. Daft really
for what it boils down to is which government department is to pay me my
pension - The MOD or the DWP. Both Fife Council and I are really bystanders
except that I have the edge on them all as all the players have
discriminated against me.

Robert Peffers

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 1:02:23 PM4/1/04
to

"Helen Ramsay" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4hag4$2hujfc$1...@ID-207901.news.uni-berlin.de...
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Shell Suits are nothing new, the stuff used to make them is. did not
Churchill wear something just like the Shell Suit but he called it a Siren
Suit? It's kind of like a fancy boilersuit. Reminds me of when the, then,
"Young-uns", thought they invented, "Hot Pants". Now how many here remember
the likes of Jane Russell and co., in Hollywood wearing very similar
garments during WW II? Down Madra! Down Boy!

Ian Morrison

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 1:12:22 PM4/1/04
to
"Robert Peffers" <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4hlfc$9m0$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk

> Shell Suits are nothing new, the stuff used to make them is. did not
> Churchill wear something just like the Shell Suit but he called it a Siren
> Suit? It's kind of like a fancy boilersuit. Reminds me of when the, then,
> "Young-uns", thought they invented, "Hot Pants". Now how many here remember
> the likes of Jane Russell and co., in Hollywood wearing very similar
> garments during WW II? Down Madra! Down Boy!

What a strange name to give your -er- "thing" - Madra! Though, come to
think of it, many people do call their dogs "boy".

------
Ian O.
(who has no intention of wearing a shell suit, or siren suit for that
matter, though might occasionally be seen in hot pants)

Richard Kaulfuss

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 1:18:18 PM4/1/04
to
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:56:51 +0100, "Glenallan"
<robert...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:


>Try to get useful employment lined up before making the decision.

Easier said than done in these times, especially if you are
male and "of a certain age". It seems that ageism is the last refuge
of socially-acceptable discrimination in our wonderful land. Still,
Jack McConnell says there's a skills shortage so there shouldn't be
a problem.

>Believe it or not, money isn't everything,

Only those who have enough can afford to say that.

>and golf is over-rated.
>
Indeed.

--
Dick

Richard Kaulfuss

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 1:24:27 PM4/1/04
to
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:55:16 -0500, "Helen Ramsay" <r...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

And very déclassé, even at the height of their popularity. Now
replaced by Burberry gear.
Q. How do you recognise the bride at a Kelty wedding?
A. She's the one with the corsage on her shell suit.

--
Dick

Ian Morrison

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 1:40:10 PM4/1/04
to
"Richard Kaulfuss" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:llmo60hg4d5hbkmli...@4ax.com

> Easier said than done in these times, especially if you are
> male and "of a certain age". It seems that ageism is the last refuge
> of socially-acceptable discrimination in our wonderful land. Still,
> Jack McConnell says there's a skills shortage so there shouldn't be
> a problem.

If I do take early retirement I will be trying to do a bit of
freelancing/consulting/short-term contract work, of which there is a lot
in my field. Having never done any kind of "no-brainer" job, that sort
of thing has a certain appeal, at least on the part-time basis that
should be all that is necessary. The biggest supermarket in Scotland,
for example, is just a couple of minutes cycle ride away.

>
> >Believe it or not, money isn't everything,
>
> Only those who have enough can afford to say that.

"Enough" does vary quite widely. As long as I have enough for my
broadband connection and the occasional trip to exotic parts, on top of
the other basic necessities of life (beer, wine, food), I'll be happy.

>
> >and golf is over-rated.
> >
> Indeed.

I have never rated it myself, having been dragged round every fr*gg*ng
golf course in Scotland when I was young. Golf courses are also one of
the biggest threats to biodiversity in Scotland.

------
Ian O.

Helen Ramsay

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 3:04:15 PM4/1/04
to
"Richard Kaulfuss" <m...@privacy.net> wrote

>"Helen Ramsay" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"Madra Dubh" <cca...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> >> (BTW, what is a "shell suit" and where can I get one?)
> >
> >I don't know what they're called here (or at least I can't think of
it
> >at the moment), but a shell suit is made up of a zippered top and
> >loose pants ( like track pants) usually with elastic at the wrists
> >and ankles and made of nylon. You know what I mean, those ones that
> >sorta rustle as you walk:) Hang on ...
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/2uukf
>
> And very déclassé, even at the height of their popularity. Now
> replaced by Burberry gear.
> Q. How do you recognise the bride at a Kelty wedding?
> A. She's the one with the corsage on her shell suit.

You always make me laugh Dick! Lang may yir lum reek:)

Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 6:09:37 PM4/1/04
to

"Helen Ramsay" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4hag4$2hujfc$1...@ID-207901.news.uni-berlin.de...

Oh my!
I've a similar outfit hanging in me closet and I do wear it to exercise in.
It's a Reeboks and quite natty.
(Robert does have a camera installed in me house somewhere)


Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 6:10:49 PM4/1/04
to

"Robert Peffers" <b...@peffers50.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4hlfc$9m0$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

Jane Russell!
Was she not a beauty?
I still remember the Western movie she starred in and the stir it caused.

Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 6:14:53 PM4/1/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ae50296a53015d5aad...@mygate.mailgate.org...

You may want to rethink your position on wearing Shell Suits.
They do a very good job of keeping the cold Scottish wind out.
More to your interest, they also do a very good job keeping the stinky
Scottish wind in.
<heh>


Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 6:16:34 PM4/1/04
to

"Richard Kaulfuss" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7ano60lilqgv9ulva...@4ax.com...

Sir, have you priced Burberry clothing?
I did and they were asking $300.00 American for a windbreaker (Not Ian
Morrison) worth no more than $60.00.


Alan Smaill

unread,
Apr 1, 2004, 7:50:13 PM4/1/04
to
T N Nurse <tnnurse...@hotmail.com> writes:

> In article <a16125cd15deb2b04f...@mygate.mailgate.org>,
> "Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
> > to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
> > are a few familiar names. There is even one regular here who voted "No"!
>
> Aha! You noticed that too?

Whatever happened to wee Adrian McMenamin?

I did see at some point that someone with that name was in fact
a small-time official Labour spin-doctor.

Him and his atrocious spelling too ....

Personally I preferred to have s.c.c., which was where most folk were
posting at the time, and where more interesting things happened. IMHO
it was a better scene there and then; for one thing because it didn't
correspond to the obvious geo-political grouping. There's something
worth remembering that s.c.c. was there before the scottish and AFAIK
Irish groups.

You can't hold back progress, but it doesn't always go
forwards.


--
Alan Smaill
School of Informatics tel: 44-131-650-2710
University of Edinburgh

ejaycee

unread,
Apr 2, 2004, 8:06:25 AM4/2/04
to

"MacHamish" <rus...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:sshp609q8f8nkq0dj...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:18:18 +0100, Richard Kaulfuss
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >>and golf is over-rated.
> >>
> > Indeed.
>
> IS NOT!!
>
>
>IS SO

Ejaycee


Ian Morrison

unread,
Apr 2, 2004, 8:23:27 AM4/2/04
to
"ejaycee" <mise_m...@hotmail.com.au> wrote in message
news:lzdbc.137107$Wa.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au

> >IS SO

Is this the 30 minute argument or a full hour?

------
Ian O.

Glenallan

unread,
Apr 2, 2004, 2:33:17 PM4/2/04
to

"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

> If I do take early retirement I will be trying to do a bit of
> freelancing/consulting/short-term contract work, of which there is a lot
> in my field. Having never done any kind of "no-brainer" job, that sort
> of thing has a certain appeal, at least on the part-time basis that
> should be all that is necessary. The biggest supermarket in Scotland,
> for example, is just a couple of minutes cycle ride away.

----------

> freelancing/consulting/short-term contract work

What is often not realised is that there is a mindset and a technique
that is required to pursue this form of income successfully.
Too often I have come across managers, financial types and
others who,quite falsely over-rate their usefulness to society,
with the much vaunted "I'll just do consultancy work....." turning
out, after three months to be nothing more than 3 days checking
someone's accounts and a face saving veneer on an actual
status of *Unemployed*

Generally speaking, if a person has never had the initiative to
strike out, and launch his own boat on a sea of uncertainty,
he is unlikely to have what it takes to make the system work
for him. This is more an issue of attitude than intelligence.

"Unions" are of no value here. They have less understanding
of how the system works than anyone else.

How do I know all this??

Trust me. :-)

> "Enough" does vary quite widely. As long as I have enough for my
> broadband connection and the occasional trip to exotic parts, on top of
> the other basic necessities of life (beer, wine, food), I'll be happy.

To be honest, I am the same. My pleasures are simple,
my taste in red wine is inexpensive, and I have no time for
greedy people and usurpers.

Many of my neighbours are millionaires,
but even that has its downside.
I am THEIR neighbour..!!. (kaboom)

Glenallan ;-)
---------


Murchadh

unread,
Apr 2, 2004, 3:05:44 PM4/2/04
to
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:36:44 +0000 (UTC), "Ian Morrison"
<iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Just scanning the list of voters on the creation of s.c.s., I would like
>to point out that I am not the "Ian Morrison" who appears there. There
>are a few familiar names.

I was listening to the Gaelic radio today to a man called Ian Morrison
who was causing much mirth among the studio audience with his remarks
on "Dear John" letters! Overly popular, that name. Change it to
Arnold ("my friends call me Ian") Pembroke-Spencer-Morrison and you'll
probably whoosh through the museum ranks to very top: O/c VIP Drinks
Cabinet or something equally impressive! Better than plodding through
all those beastly bloody bogs on Barra!

Thinking of cultural marshes and alcohol, I was much taken by a
ceilidh where a man was teaching non-Gaels some useful Gaelic phrases
and explained that "tha mi a’ dol a chur a-mach" is the Gaelic way of
saying, "I am going to be sick".

Instant sniggering broke out, and the speaker, anxious to avert any
lowering of the tone of his lesson, said hastily, "Who knows, it might
be useful on board a boat as well!" Looks of amazement all round.

I also would never have thought of that. Like all Scots I associate
vomiting purely with alcohol, never sea-sickness or poisoning.

"Any sign of an empty bottle, Constable?"

"No sir, but I did find an open jar of arsenic in the medicine cabinet
and a Calmac ferry tied up at the back gate..."

"Hmm, sounds like someone is trying to throw us off the scent..."

Thon Heelan polis is gey fly!

Murchadh

Sally

unread,
Apr 2, 2004, 10:02:58 PM4/2/04
to
"Helen Ramsay" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c4hag4$2hujfc$1...@ID-207901.news.uni-berlin.de>...

Gee, mine is made of sweatshirt material. Other than that it is the
same as the shell suit, only warmer. Sal

Sally

unread,
Apr 2, 2004, 10:05:40 PM4/2/04
to
"Ian Morrison" <iomor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ae50296a53015d5aad...@mygate.mailgate.org>...

(giggle)- hope you have the figure for hot pants, they are a bit
abbreviated. <g> Sal

Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 3, 2004, 7:02:23 PM4/3/04
to

"Sally" <esd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:b8bcd929.04040...@posting.google.com...

LL Bean sells some excellent heavy duty sweats.
Talk about warm and you can't wear them out.


Madra Dubh

unread,
Apr 3, 2004, 7:03:21 PM4/3/04
to

"Sally" <esd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:b8bcd929.04040...@posting.google.com...

Hummmm.
Him wearing muumuus might be more merciful.


Glenallan

unread,
Apr 3, 2004, 7:32:10 PM4/3/04
to

> > > http://tinyurl.com/2uukf
> >
> > Gee, mine is made of sweatshirt material. Other than that it is the
> > same as the shell suit, only warmer. Sal
>
> LL Bean sells some excellent heavy duty sweats.
> Talk about warm and you can't wear them out.


Fascinating.!
Don't think I haven't been reading this thread.

G
--


Craig Cockburn

unread,
Apr 4, 2004, 3:26:27 AM4/4/04
to
In message <jgIbc.17635$vo5.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Madra Dubh <cca...@worldnet.att.net> writes

>
>LL Bean sells some excellent heavy duty sweats.
>Talk about warm and you can't wear them out.
>
Yes, one of my favourite shops - their stuff lasts for 10 years or more!
--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). SiliconGlen.com Ltd. http://SiliconGlen.com
Home to the first online guide to Scotland, founded 1994.
Scottish FAQ, wedding info, website design, stop spam and more!