-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.ian.stewart.ukgateway.net/informer.htm
>Anyone have the words of this song ?
>Can't find it anywhere on-line.
Try here:
http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiMARCH42;ttMARCH42.html
Wha' saw the tattie howkers,
Wha' saw them gang awa'?
Wha' saw the tattie howkers,
Marching through the Broomielaw?
Some of them had bits of stockings,
Some of them had nane at a',
Some of them had umberellas
Marching through the Broomielaw.
Elaine
Same tune as "Wha wadna fecht for Chairlie"
M
>
>The Despicable Stewart wrote:
>
>>Anyone have the words of this song ?
>>Can't find it anywhere on-line.
>
>Try here:
>
>http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiMARCH42;ttMARCH42.html
Thanks Elaine.
There's a story behind my query.
Our next door neighbour (he's 80+ years) was, in his younger days, a
pretty good amateur painter. The other day he said, "You're a Glasgow
man, do you remember the song about the "Tattie Howkers" ?"
I did, but couldn't remember all the words. Anyway, he gave me a
photocopy of a drawing he did some years back. It's now at :
http://www.ian-stewart.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/howkers.htm
AFAIK(new), it was actually a parody on "Wha saw the 42nd".
(same tune)
Hello Elaine, Ian and the Group,
in Fife in the early 1960's, school kids were allowed, with
approval from the school, to pick potatos for local farmers
for about 2 to 3 weeks during the harvesting season.
Back then, I got 15 shillings per day.
Can you tell me if kids today are still allowed to go tattie
howking with school permission?
The second verse in the song referring to dress. We
were like scare crows. Wearing old clothes near to rags.
That was the first time I had ever seen grown women
wearing mens clothes, old suits. I remember that because
of the quip I received, "What are you efin gopin' at?"
I still think a woman in a man's pin strip suit, lining hanging
out the elbows, wellies and head scarf looks odd.
A couple of tractors with trailers would come round the
village and pick us up in the morning and drop us off in
the afternoon near our homes. They had to, because
after being bent over all day we could hardly walk.
For me it was a good experience, it motivated me to
try harder at school. I did not want a job involving
such aches and pains.
Ian, you triggered off my memory with that heading.
The school bully boys would raid our bags, stealing
our pieces and bottles of ginger at the side of the field.
This bully boy behavior went on for days, the farmer
was not interested in keeping order so we laced a few
of the bottles with urine.
When we told these bullies after one of their raids on the
lunch bags, about the special ginger, other kids then
joined in, exagerating how the sandwiches were also fixed.
They spat, puked and spewed at the mere thought of what
also might have been smeared in the sandwiches.
Some punches and kicks were received by us smaller boys
but revenge on the bullies that day was a magic moment
in my school life. :-)
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
Elaine.
<ian-s...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s91v3v8ggg5ah2jqg...@4ax.com...
>Thanks Elaine.
HTH.
>There's a story behind my query.
>Our next door neighbour (he's 80+ years)
> was, in his younger days, a pretty good
> amateur painter. The other day he said,
> "You're a Glasgow man, do you
> remember the song about the "Tattie
> Howkers" ?"
>I did, but couldn't remember all the
> words. Anyway, he gave me a
> photocopy of a drawing he did some
> years back. It's now at :
> http://www.ian-stewart.pwp.blueyonder.
>co.uk/howkers.htm
That's a great drawing. I'm glad you posted it.
Elaine
>I remember being a tattie howker.........I was only 14/15 at the time and I
>was picked up by the van at about 6a.m. It was back breaking work and I
>remember stealing an enormous tattie and putting it in my anorak.......I
>left it on a post and when I fetched my anorak the tattie was
>missing.......they were so mean and paid us so little and all we got was
>painful backs......I never went back the next day:-)
>
The song (at least this version) specifically relates to Irish
"howkers". The "Irish boat" berthed at the Broomielaw.
>Hello Elaine, Ian and the Group,
>in Fife in the early 1960's, school kids
> were allowed, with approval from the
> school, to pick potatos for local farmers
> for about 2 to 3 weeks during the
> harvesting season. Back then, I got 15
> shillings per day.
>Can you tell me if kids today are still
> allowed to go tattie howking with school
> permission?
Hi, John. I grew up in Iowa (the 'corn' state). My first job was also
underage, detasseling field corn. They'd load up open trucks with kids,
and take us to the cornfields where we'd walk the corn rows for 50 cents
an hour, pulling the tassels off the corn stalks. It was the only job
available to underage kids, and although we didn't have to bend down to
the ground like you did, we thought we'd die from the blistering sun,
heat, humidity, dirt and bugs! I don't even know if it's done,
manually, today. I do know that nobody would be transported like that
due to stringent seatbelt laws!
>The second verse in the song referring to
> dress. We were like scare crows.
> Wearing old clothes near to rags. That
> was the first time I had ever seen grown
> women wearing mens clothes, old suits.
> I remember that because of the quip I
> received, "What are you efin gopin' at?"
> I still think a woman in a man's pin strip
> suit, lining hanging out the elbows,
> wellies and head scarf looks odd.
> A couple of tractors with trailers would
> come round the village and pick us up in
> the morning and drop us off in the
> afternoon near our homes. They had to,
> because after being bent over all day we
> could hardly walk. For me it was a good
> experience, it motivated me to try
> harder at school. I did not want a job
> involving such aches and pains.
I just had to <snip> a lot of your post, because WebTV wouldn't let me
respond with so many lines of attributions! Sorry!
>Some punches and kicks
> were received by us smaller boys but
> revenge on the bullies that day was a
> magic moment in my school life. :-)
That's a great story! It's fun to reminisce, isn't it! I hope you're
writing down your stories the way Glenallen is.
Elaine
Thanks for sharing. He is very good:)
I did enjoy that:)
O
I thought I'd get my "cultural contribution" for the year,
over and done with, it's probably all downhill from here !
Ejaycee
Ian, There is something very 'Irish' about the sketch.
The soft hats is more of an Irish characteristic, for me,
and the river is obviously the Clyde at the Broomielaw.
Is this a sketch of Irish tattie-howkers coming off the
boat for seasonal work, I wonder.
G
--
John wrote:
>Hello Elaine, Ian and the Group,
>in Fife in the early 1960's, school kids
> were allowed, with approval from the
> school, to pick potatos for local farmers
> for about 2 to 3 weeks during the
> harvesting season. Back then, I got 15
> shillings per day.
>Can you tell me if kids today are still
> allowed to go tattie howking with school
> permission?
Hi, John. I grew up in Iowa (the 'corn' state).
Hi Elaine. For some reason I thought that you were Scottish, and had gone
to the US as an adult. Were you born in the US, or did you go there as a
child?
And Elaine is going to grow up one of these days real soon, too...
AS I remember it when I was at school we only got 5 weeks holidays in summer
in Secondary so we could go tattie-picking in Oct for 3 weeks, seemingly
there was a shortage of folk tae dae the tattie-picking after the war (for a
fair number o years)......so we got 'tattie holidays'
As I remember it we got 10 shillings a week and were picked up at several
venues by a lorry and delivered to the field that was to be picked by 8am.
Some o the laddies would light a fire and we would put tatties into the
ashes to cook.....course most of the time the tatties were half-raw......we
ate em anyway! I remember the cold and the frost a lot of the time
(Brrrrrrr......)
My best memory of that time was coming home from a day of tattie-picking,
tired and cold, and meeting a laddie who lived next to us who told me that
there was a telly in our hoose......I didn't believe him.......but when I
got home there it was. Blank of course.....programmes didn't start till 7pm!
Got cleaned up and fed, all ready to settle doon tae watch this new
technology.........saw the 1st 5 minutes.......then fell fast asleep! lol
As tae the tattie-howkers song we sang 'bits and stockings' meaning boots
and stockings, I can't remember the rest
Gawd! I'm auld! lol
Noreen
It's now at (illustrated version) :
http://www.ian-stewart.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/howkers.htm
Yes. AFAIK that was what the song was about
(see my other post re "The Irish Boat")
>I remember being a tattie howker.........I was only 14/15 at the time and I
>was picked up by the van at about 6a.m. It was back breaking work and I
>remember stealing an enormous tattie and putting it in my anorak.......I
>left it on a post and when I fetched my anorak the tattie was
>missing.......they were so mean and paid us so little and all we got was
>painful backs......I never went back the next day:-)
>
Hello Elaine,
I met several farmers tattie howking and they were mainly
miserable gits. Helen's dour and crabbit words are not strong
enough in describing these guys. A couple of farmers did allow
us to take several spuds each day. Then some greedy kid
abused the privilige and that would be the end of it. I can still
feel the agro. The old farmer swearing abuse and waving his
stick at us as he grabbed our bags for inspection, tipping out
the few potatoes he found and yelling at those kids not to come
back. I do not know if the kids that were sent off ever got
paid for the days they did work. Probably not. They took
advantage of us kids. The school headmaster had made it
clear before we went picking that he would not get involved
in disputes. So much for the caring and nurturing of young
people. What a joke! Elaine, I can understand your decision
not to go back the next day. Yes, they were "mean".
Just thinking about it now, if the farmer had made up little
bags with a few potatoes for each kid to bring back to their
mums each day, the kids would not have been sneaking
around hiding what they had pinched, their minds would
have been taken off the problem of nicking a few spuds.
The farmer would have benefited greatly by getting more
production from the kids. Anyway, that is all in the past,
probably don't use school kids anymore.
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
>Hi Elaine. For some reason I thought
> that you were Scottish, and had gone to
> the US as an adult. Were you born in
> the US, or did you go there as a child?
I was born in the US. My grandmother was Scottish. I like to go to
Scotland whenever I get the chance, and even toyed with the idea of
moving there at one time.
Elaine
>And Elaine is going to grow up one of
> these days real soon, too...
Aw, Uncle Duke, do I have to?
Elaine
By what you say above, one kid, at least, would not have been satisfied
with what the farmer offered. I will give my nuts to anyone who comes and
asks, in large quantities, yet I have one lady, yet to be caught in the
act, who insists on stealing from my orchard. It shows a lack of respect.
It makes farmers mean.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
The tattie howkin was great.We all looked forward to getting off school and
earning a fortune. The farmer picked us up on the trailer and took us to the
fields. Everyone had a strip to pick marked out by sticks stuck in the
ground. The tractor with the digger came along and everyone worked like
blazes to clear their strip before it came back again. We mainly picked
Kerr's Pinks around Milton of Balgonie. Some of them were huge. We got to
take tatties home at the end of the day. This was in the mid / late 50's. I
got 17/6 a day
I had a paper run as well ....The Evening Citizen.....This made me 24
shillings a week With my Tattie howkin money and paper run I was a
MILLIONAIRE!! Well nearly!
Sandy Cruden
Sydney and Bangkok
>
>
>
>
>
You look Scottish in your picture on the scs website.
My Da told me about going off to do that, and staying in digs with a few
other boys, and their young schoolteacher. They worked for 6 days, and the
teacher took them all to church on the Sunday. There was only one church
nearby, a wee free place. The next week, my Dad told the teacher that they
all had worked so hard all week, that he was having a lie-in on Sunday, and
to Hell wiith anybodoy who tried to tell him otherwise. The other boys
thought him quite brave to take this stand, and backed him up. The real
reason he didn't want to go, was not because he wanted to sleep in, he was
afraid to go back to the church. He said that the Hellfire and damnation
preacher had terrified him.
Hello ?
(sorry, I do not know Gaelic, I don't wish to address you incorrectly)
Yes, I can understand that stealing makes farmers mean.
I was describing farmers and incidents as I saw them, 1960 to 1962
in Fife. Not very complimentary to potato farmers in Fife back then,
but that is how it was. To me as a kid, they seemed to be always
angry and were frightening to be near. A few kids do the wrong
thing and spoil it for the rest.
To day you are a nut farmer, in America. Worlds away,
in distance and time! You and your workers have a
totally different set of attitudes and values to the people
I knew there, back then. The fact that you call your
workers ladies, speaks volumes. Please do not take
offence. Glad to know you have workers that you can trust.
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
>You look Scottish in your picture on the
> scs website.
I've always looked more like the Scottish side of the family.
Elaine
Shyemy, my name is James, Jim to most. My father was William. It is not
one of the workers who steals from me. I do not limit gifts of nuts to
only my workers. I, too, was a tattie howker in the fifties and sixties.
I suspect part of the difference in attitude, both of the workers and
farmers, is as you say, time and place, but also because of the size of
the farms. 600 acres of potatoes is a bunch of potatoes. Where I worked
potatoes, the machine left a bit at the beginning and end of each row(10-
50 pounds)undug. No farmer of my acquaintance objected to anyone
gleening the row ends, until the greedy and lazy began taking potatoes
other than the ones that would be lost in any event. Farmers abhor waste
almost as much as they abhor theivery.
Hello Jim,
nice to meet you.
In regard to the waste or leftovers, where I worked,
around the village of Oakley near Dunfermline, there
was very little waste after a field was picked. The kids
were lined up across an area of ground, two to a basket
and we would walk in a line, picking up the missed or
half buried spuds. This procedure was called harrowing.
The angry old farmer would be out in front, kicking up buried
spuds or using his stick, all the time swearing about the
fact that we lazy, useless bastards had missed them. In
that atmosphere of mutual disrespect, thieving is bound
to happened. Some farmers cheated on wages, and the
school kid workers stole. That is what I saw.
As a school kid worker I was paid 15 shillings a day by the
old man I just described. A few weeks later I played truant
from school and joined some adult pickers. I was paid one
pound a day and told to fill my bag. The atmosphere was
completely different. Of the half dozen farms I worked at,
around 1962, Reid's farm was fair. The others were
unfriendly and mean to me. Jim, I say again, please don't
take offence.
Jim, can you please explain the rest of your signature to me?
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
: Same tune as "Wha wadna fecht for Chairlie"
And almost the same words as "Wha saw the forty-second", unremarkably
enough.
Ian
--
Would newbies (that's anyone who came into scs after the above
date of '99) please note that any reply from the Nutman may,
just possibly but unlikely, contain a small degree of truth !
>
> Thanks Elaine.
> There's a story behind my query.
>
> Our next door neighbour (he's 80+ years) was, in his younger days, a
> pretty good amateur painter. The other day he said, "You're a Glasgow
> man, do you remember the song about the "Tattie Howkers" ?"
>
> I did, but couldn't remember all the words. Anyway, he gave me a
> photocopy of a drawing he did some years back. It's now at :
> http://www.ian-stewart.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/howkers.htm
Great sketch Ian! Thanks.
Cheers, Helen
Hello Ian,
here in Australia, we have had some additional
royalty for over 30 years. Prince Leonard.
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~huttrivr/
I think there may be more Principalities and
Kingdoms up in Queensland.
Once upon a time, I lived in the Kingdom of Fife. :-)
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
You misapprehend, darling niece - the question is whether or not we LET
you...
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam- someone called me a saint for giving them hazelnuts
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve-according to Mercutio, Queen
Mab(Maeve) has as her chariot an empty hazelnut shell
Prophet of The Great Tagger- the great Tagger is a poster on SCI, Paul
Carr
Canonized December '99-when I was first called a saint
In Angus (Forfar area) they do indeed still have "tattie holidays" (in
October, IINM), to allow just that - IIRC, the area was given special
dispensation (in the 1980s?) to continue the practice of allowing schoolkids
a fortnight off school to assist in the potato harvest - all other areas had
to reduce the break to (again, IINM) a single week. Not sure if many kids
actually still 'tattie howk' nowadays, however!
(Not-so-fond memories of 'tattie howkin' as a schoolchild - the frosty
ground; the girny gaffer; the glaikit wifies who always 'swickit the
peenie'; the 'piecetimes' that were never long enough; the seemingly
interminable 'dreels'; the really horrible 'harras'; the (relative) joy at
being assigned an 'end rig'; the 'graduation' to 'skull timmin'; the lack of
'skulls' meaning you'd never get your 'bit pickit' before the digger came
around yet again...yucks!)
David (ex-tattie howker)