Scottish names
David A. Allan
briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a good
old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman (who'd
been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
Somehow, we ended up talking about the weird short forms Scots give to
certain names - and the following ones were completely alien to him (he's
from South Queensferry), whereas they're perfectly normal/common in the
North East, where I'm from (in fact, the examples I've given are all from my
own family!) ;-).
Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
Charles --> Chick/Chae
David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
George --> Dod
Helen --> Nelly
Norman --> Nom
Has anyone else heard of any of these?
David
S Viemeister
> Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
>
Also Sawney. Never heard Sye - I've heard Eck for Hector, as well.
> Charles --> Chick/Chae
>
Not heard of Chae.
> David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
>
Never heard of that one.
> George --> Dod
>
Yes, also Doddy, and Geordie, as well.
> Helen --> Nelly
>
Yes.
> Norman --> Nom
>
No.
How about Nana for Joan?
Shug for Hugh?
Dave Biggar
"David A. Allan" wrote:
>
> David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
My uncle called my father "Daw", as in 'awe'. As I have
never heard that usage any other place, I have
wondered if Dave <-> Daw was a family thing.
db
greyrover
> A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency, being
> briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a good
> old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman (who'd
> been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
>
> Somehow, we ended up talking about the weird short forms Scots give to
> certain names - and the following ones were completely alien to him (he's
> from South Queensferry), whereas they're perfectly normal/common in the
> North East, where I'm from (in fact, the examples I've given are all from my
> own family!) ;-).
>
> Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
> Charles --> Chick/Chae
> David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
> George --> Dod
> Helen --> Nelly
> Norman --> Nom
>
> Has anyone else heard of any of these?
>
> David
I know of several Alexanders that are called 'Sandy.' A friend here in the US
has a son, Alexander, called Sandy. This came about because when Sandy was
born, the older daughter could not pronounce Alexander and it came out 'Sander'
and then Sandy. With the number of Alexanders called Sandy, does anyone else
have any information/ideas as to how this started?
Greyrover
Bill Potter
I imagine your paragraph above give the explanation in its entirety.
Bill
--
William Potter - bpo...@mediaone.net
Anne Jackson
from "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> contains these words:
> Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
> Charles --> Chick/Chae
> David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
> George --> Dod
> Helen --> Nelly
> Norman --> Nom
Bunty....Janet
Shug.....Hugh
Senga....Agnes
Anne
Alan Smaill
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:45:38 +0800, "David A. Allan"
> <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
> >Somehow, we ended up talking about the weird short forms Scots give to
> >certain names - and the following ones were completely alien to him (he's
> >from South Queensferry),
how weird can you get
> >whereas they're perfectly normal/common in the
> >North East, where I'm from (in fact, the examples I've given are all from my
> >own family!) ;-).
and elsewhere.
> I grew up around the east coast and sometimes never knew peoples REAL
> names. There were plenty Sye's, Chick's, Dite's etc. I'm sure there
> are a ton more. The ones I remember, in addition to yours are:-
>
> John - Jack; Jock
> William - Wull
> Margaret - Meg; Bunty
> Elizabeth - Libby
and Elsie.
> I'm sure if I asked my granny she's come up with many more that we
> never hear in everyday conversatiion anymore. Everyone's naming their
> kids with modern names anymore.
anymore ?? already !!
> Sue
>
--
Alan Smaill email: A.Sm...@ed.ac.uk
Division of Informatics tel: 44-131-650-2710
Edinburgh University
Alan Smaill
> Senga....Agnes
I've heard this story, but never credited it.
Senga is a name in the Ossian story (to pick a neutral
word).
Do you know anyone christened "Agnes" that is known as Senga?
> Anne
Alan Smaill
> I also had an honorary Uncle And(rew) pronounced 'Awnd'
> and he had a sister Margaret (Peggy)
Glad to see Peg appear here.
Dave Biggar
Helen Ramsay wrote:
>
> [........]
> and he had a sister Margaret (Peggy)
>
I have a sister Margaret (Peggy); a son called And(rew)
pronounced 'And'; an uncle from Edinburgh called Reekie;
an uncle called 'Sanny' (not Sandy) which is short for I
don't know what.
Also, Bob's my uncle.
db
David A. Allan
"Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:38FF6019...@sympatico.ca...
>
> "David A. Allan" wrote:
> >
> > David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
>
> never heard that usage any other place, I have
> wondered if Dave <-> Daw was a family thing.
Hmmm...that's a new one to me...whereabouts in Scotland were they from,
Dave?
David
David A. Allan
"Highlander" <forfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8Yf=OCKWHWmElEgp...@4ax.com...<snip>
> >Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
> >Charles --> Chick/Chae
> >Helen --> Nelly
> >Norman --> Nom
<snip>
> I grew up around the east coast
A Farfir lassie, perchance?! (Just noticed your e-mail address!) ;-)
and sometimes never knew peoples REAL
> names. There were plenty Sye's, Chick's, Dite's etc.
Yup, same here. Especially people from my parents' generation and above.
I'm sure there
> are a ton more. The ones I remember, in addition to yours are:-
>
> John - Jack; Jock
> William - Wull
> Margaret - Meg; Bunty
> Elizabeth - Libby
Och aye - I forgot about those ones! ;-) Actually, my grandmother was
christened "Colvina" (which she detests), and everyone has always called her
"Bunty"...wonder how *that* came about?!
> I'm sure if I asked my granny she's come up with many more that we
> never hear in everyday conversatiion anymore. Everyone's naming their
> kids with modern names anymore.
Indeed. One of my cousins has actually named his newborn twin daughters
Mackenzie and Wilson (!?) - you Ramsays have a lot to answer for, Helen! ;-)
David
Helen Ramsay
I expected ye tae say, "An Fanny's ma aunt!' ;-)
Cheers,
Helen
You don't stop laughing because you grow old;
you grow old because you stop laughing.
Dave Biggar
"David A. Allan" wrote:
>
> "Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:38FF6019...@sympatico.ca...
> >
> > "David A. Allan" wrote:
> > >
> >
> > never heard that usage any other place, I have
> > wondered if Dave <-> Daw was a family thing.
>
> Hmmm...that's a new one to me...whereabouts in Scotland were they from,
> Dave?
>
My father was born in Airdrie in 1890. His brother was older
and, I assume, also born in Airdrie.
db
Dave Biggar
> > >
> > > [........]
> > > I also had an honorary Uncle And(rew) pronounced 'Awnd'
> > > and he had a sister Margaret (Peggy)
> > >
> >
> > I have a sister Margaret (Peggy); a son called And(rew)
> > pronounced 'And'; an uncle from Edinburgh called Reekie;
> > an uncle called 'Sanny' (not Sandy) which is short for I
> > don't know what.
> > Also, Bob's my uncle.
>
> I expected ye tae say, "An Fanny's ma aunt!' ;-)
>
I missed that!
Bob's your uncle.
db
Joe Makowiec
>
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:45:38 +0800, "David A. Allan"
> <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
> >briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a good
> >old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman (who'd
> >been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
> >
> >certain names - and the following ones were completely alien to him (he's
> >North East, where I'm from (in fact, the examples I've given are all from my
> >own family!) ;-).
> >
> >Charles --> Chick/Chae
> >Helen --> Nelly
> >Norman --> Nom
> >
> >
> >David
>
> names. There were plenty Sye's, Chick's, Dite's etc. I'm sure there
> are a ton more. The ones I remember, in addition to yours are:-
>
> John - Jack; Jock
> William - Wull
> Margaret - Meg; Bunty
> Elizabeth - Libby
>
> never hear in everyday conversatiion anymore. Everyone's naming their
> kids with modern names anymore.
Though when those 'old-fashioned' names were used, they were modern...
In amongst the Iain/John, Sine/Jane, Mairi/Mary, in any family and area
are the runs of Blanches and Clarences, in a given time period.
Can everyone tell I've been revising my wife's Scottish lines recently?
And can anyone explain why Scottish families pick three male and three
female forenames and stick to them almost exclusively? I have one line
where there are several families with two John CAMERONs in the same
family, and my grandmum-in-law CAMERON has two sisters Marysomething and
I think two Margarets!
Joe
--------------------
Sorry for the jammed e-mail address.
Joe Makowiec can be reached at:
makowiec(at)nycap.rr.com
David A. Allan
"Helen Ramsay" <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote in message
news:mgNL4.222666$Hq3.5...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...<snip>
> > Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
>
No Sye, Helen? My Uncle Sye won't be too happy to hear that! <g>
<snip>
> > George --> Dod
>
> Dod or Geordie
Funnily enough, I have both an Uncle Dod and an Uncle Geordie....
<snip>
> I had uncles Wat (Walter), Nor(man) pronounced 'Noar',
> Hen (Henry) Shug (Hugh) and aunts Phem (Euphemia) and
> Cis (Cecilia)
I'd forgotten Wat (rhyming with "bat"?)
> I also had an honorary Uncle And(rew) pronounced 'Awnd'
> and he had a sister Margaret (Peggy)
David
David A. Allan
> > Also, Bob's my uncle.
>
> I expected ye tae say, "An Fanny's ma aunt!' ;-)
I actually had a Great Aunt Fanny in Aberdeen...never did find out if that
actually was her "real" name, though.
David
David A. Allan
"Joe Makowiec" <mako...@nycap.rEMOVECAPSr.com> wrote in message
news:390055...@nycap.rEMOVECAPSr.com...
<snip>
> And can anyone explain why Scottish families pick three male and three
> female forenames and stick to them almost exclusively? I have one line
> where there are several families with two John CAMERONs in the same
> family, and my grandmum-in-law CAMERON has two sisters Marysomething and
> I think two Margarets!
LOL! ;-) Very true...I'm actually David Allan the 17th (AFAIK) in our
family (or maybe I should write David Allan XVII?!) ;-) Used to cause
problems when my late grandfather came to stay with us and a letter would
arrive addressed to "Mr David Allan" or "David Allan, Esq." (If the middle
initial was used, it helped, since they're all different.)
Family tradition in this case...first son carrying on the name an at! ;-)
David
Adam Whyte-Settlar
David A. Allan <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:8dn8n1$so1$1...@news6.jaring.my...
> A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency, being
> briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a
good
> old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman
(who'd
> been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
Reminds me of a guy I used to work with trying to phone his pal who was
working in an oil rig construction yard at Nigg in Ross-shire.
He asked directory enquiries in England for the exchange code and she told
him he would have to call International Directory Enquiries as she only
dealt with British exchanges!
The adorable
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Adam Whyte-Settlar
This is a bizzarre and very confusing set of posts for s.c.s. - The header
reads 'Scottish Names' and everyone is talking about Scottish Names. Whats
going on?
The adorable
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Dave Biggar <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:390009A1...@sympatico.ca...
>
> Helen Ramsay wrote:
> >
> > "Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote
> > >
> > > Helen Ramsay wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [........]
> > > > I also had an honorary Uncle And(rew) pronounced 'Awnd'
> > > > and he had a sister Margaret (Peggy)
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have a sister Margaret (Peggy); a son called And(rew)
> > > pronounced 'And'; an uncle from Edinburgh called Reekie;
> > > an uncle called 'Sanny' (not Sandy) which is short for I
> > > don't know what.
> > > Also, Bob's my uncle.
> >
> > I expected ye tae say, "An Fanny's ma aunt!' ;-)
> >
>
Micheil
wrote:
>Highlander <forfar...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:45:38 +0800, "David A. Allan"
>> <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>>
>> >Somehow, we ended up talking about the weird short forms Scots give to
>> >certain names - and the following ones were completely alien to him (he's
>> >from South Queensferry),
>
>how weird can you get
>
>> >whereas they're perfectly normal/common in the
>> >North East, where I'm from (in fact, the examples I've given are all from my
>> >own family!) ;-).
>
>and elsewhere.
>
>> I grew up around the east coast and sometimes never knew peoples REAL
>> names. There were plenty Sye's, Chick's, Dite's etc. I'm sure there
>> are a ton more. The ones I remember, in addition to yours are:-
>>
>> John - Jack; Jock
>> William - Wull
>> Margaret - Meg; Bunty
>> Elizabeth - Libby
>
>and Elsie.
>
>> I'm sure if I asked my granny she's come up with many more that we
>> never hear in everyday conversatiion anymore. Everyone's naming their
>> kids with modern names anymore.
>
>anymore ?? already !!
In the Highlands, Alasdair is often reduced to Ali. I knew an Ali
Forbes. Most people find their names being used with an "i" sound on
the end, like Geordie, Petie, Wullie, etc.
And it is only now that I realize after reading the previous posts
that I knew a Bunty Matheson as a child but to this day have no idea
what her actual given name was!
A common Highland diminutive is "ňg", like the Irish "een" meaning
"young", and one meets Beellock (little Bill) everywhere. Uěsdean
(Hugh) is sometimes Hootie.
Because of territorial surnaming left over from the clan system (don't
even bother trying to find John MacDonald in the Stornoway phonebook
unless you know his complete address), nicknames are far commoner than
first name shortening. It was a constant surprise at funeral services
to discover that people such as Hack the Rocket (Rocket signifying
"not entirely with us mentally") was actually named Hector John
MacKenzie.
In the matter of bynames however, the true wealth is to be found in
Wales, which has by far the most imaginative and usually scurrilous
byname system in the Celtic world. Who can forget Evans the Death (the
local funeral director) or Yanto Bungalow (nothing upstairs)?
The paucity of surnames also leads to people being numbered, and I can
thoroughly recommend a classic sleeper film called Yanto Number Nine
as an hilarious laugh. In particular, the scene where a railway
station loudspeaker asks a Welsh rugby crowd if Yanto Jones (I forget
the actual name) can come to the stationmaster's office and a seething
mob gathers, all shouting, "Yanto Jones yeeah!" and "Oo lookin for
Yanto Jones?"
Who can forget Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas, featuring Dai Bread
(the baker) and his first and second wives, Mrs. Dai Bread One and
Mrs. Dai Bread Two? Or that wonderful declaration of love:
"I am a draper mad with love.
I love you more than all the flannelette and calico, candlewick,
dimity, crash and merino, tussore, cretonne, crepon, muslin,
poplin, ticking and twill in the whole Cloth Hall of the world.
I have come to take you away to my Emporium on the hill,
where the change hums on wires.
Throw away your little bedsocks and your Welsh wool knitted jacket,
I will lie by your side like the Sunday roast."
(I know this is totally off the subject, but what the hell, let's have
a wander!)
I don't know if anyone will agree with me, but I find the Welsh as
foreign as the Hungarians or the Finnish. Wales is a completely
self-contained culture - the people claim to be the oldest European
culture still settled in the same territory - and I think I find them
foreign because so many people use Welsh as their first language, yet
switch to their lilting English if you ask them a question, laughing
madly as they did when I once asked, "Does anyone here speak English?"
and then proving that they did, but a very strange English indeed,
filled with all sorts of exotic phrases obviously translated directly
from Welsh.
That, and the fact that they must be the tiniest people I have ever
met, contributes to a sense of being abroad. I felt like Gulliver in
Lilliput, forging head and shoulders above and through the crowd,
while pert little Welsh girls gave me appraising looks and smiles and
the men nodded in friendly manner. It is one of the few European
countries I've been in where I was immediately identifiable as an
outsider because I simply didn't look Welsh.
They are an enthusiastic people. When I tried out a few words of
Welsh, I met with a rapturous reception; backslapping, beer being
pressed into my hand, people rushing out to drag their friends in to
hear the "Ighlandah" allegedly speaking Welsh with a fluency not heard
since the days of Iolo Morganwg.
The Welsh mindset is unlike any other. As a national group, they are
probably the most literate people I have ever met, sharing with other
Celts a sly sense of humour which sees them gaping in awe while being
instructed by visiting Highlanders on some obscure matter, then
correcting the details and citing chapter and verse as their source. I
stopped quoting from the Bible (a Hebridean standby) because everyone
corrected even the slightest error.
Like the southern Chinese, they have an insatiable curiosity about the
minutest details of one's personal life and I was endlessly questioned
about matters I had scarcely ever given thought to, like why my
grandfather had the middle name he had. Like the Chinese, one had the
impression that everything was being filed away for future reference.
They are also a people of high drama. One of their more endearing
characteristics was their propensity for bursting into song or poetry
or quoting some saying or proverb at the drop of a hat. When I first
heard a Welsh choir in action, I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven.
Needless to say, I soon found myself falling madly in love with any
good-looking female I met. Most were far too intelligent to deal with
this in any other way than gentle amusement, but I was made some
startling offers and had some very frank discussions which contrasted
sharply with the usual reddened condition of my face in the Highlands,
where the cautionary slap is pretty well mandatory if the conversation
turns southwards.
Unlike the Highlands, Welsh culture gave me the impression of being
complete in itself. England's impact on Wales seemed pretty minimal,
rather like the influence of Spain on France, vaguely interesting but
not especially significant. Indeed, when the devolution vote almost
ended in Wales not even having its own assembly, I for one was
startled, but then thought that perhaps they didn't feel the need for
one because they are so comfortable with their own identity.
I'd recommend a visit to Welsh (non-anglicised) Wales if the
opportunity presents itself. For me it was a genuinely unique
experience of a totally separate Celtic environment.
- měcheil
- innis dhomh sgéile mu 'n Thěr nan Ňg......
-------------------------------------o0o--------------------------------------
The Blessed Fr. Měcheil ŕ Talisker et Lagavulin, S.J.
-------------------------------------o0o--------------------------------------
Highlander
<daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
>"Highlander" <forfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
><snip>
>> I grew up around the east coast
>
>A Farfir lassie, perchance?! (Just noticed your e-mail address!) ;-)
>
Letham actually, but my hubby has a passion for bridies, hence my
e-mail. GRIN
Sue
Anne Jackson
from Alan Smaill <sma...@dai.ed.ac.uk> contains these words:
> > Senga....Agnes
> I've heard this story, but never credited it.
> Senga is a name in the Ossian story (to pick a neutral
> word).
> Do you know anyone christened "Agnes" that is known as Senga?
Yes, the wife of a friend of mine is named Agnes, but gets
called "Senga" as a nickname.
I don't know if she was ever actually "christened" though!
Anne
Anne Jackson
from Alan Hardie <a*x*har...@clara.co.uk> contains these words:
> >Not heard of Chae.
> >
> Never heard of Chae Blyth?
> There was a Chae in Sunset Song. I think it's a North-East thing.
Only one problem, Chay Blyth is from Hawick! That's a long way from
the North East!
Anne
Jim Stewart
Aunt Mary was "mum"
Aunt Elizabeth was "Queenie" since 1936...
Jim Stewart
David A. Allan <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:8dpqln$qdm$2...@news5.jaring.my...
>
> "Helen Ramsay" <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote in message
> news:n_PL4.223459$Hq3.5...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > "Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote
> > >
> > > Helen Ramsay wrote:
> <snip>
> > > Also, Bob's my uncle.
> >
> > I expected ye tae say, "An Fanny's ma aunt!' ;-)
>
Sandy Croall
depending how many generations are alive, we cascade down from Alex
or Alec, Sandy and then Sye, if your unfortunate and there's 4 generations
alive you are then called 'the Loon'.
We have traced back to Kincardineshire in 14C, but the Alexander's only
got going in the early 1800's in Edinburgh, the family then drifted to
Angus.
My father is still alive (86) and is now called Alex, but was Sandy for most
of his
life, thus I'm Sandy, my eldest is ...... I have been both 'the loon' and
Sye.
I have an Uncle Eck outside Stonehaven, but I don't recall his first name
being Alex...
Sandy Croall
> Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
>
> George --> Dod
>
I have an uncle Dod too, Sandy.
>
> Cheers
>
> Helen
>
Ian Mac Lure
: A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency, being
: briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a good
: old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman (who'd
: been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
And I suppose you've never heard the story of the great to-do
that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
was learned that Russian trroops had landed in Britain.
Turns out the locals had asked one of a large group of strangers
in uniform disembarking from the train in some bucolic portion of
that place (mostly) south of Berwick. The answer they received was
in thickly accented English and consisted of one word, to whit:
"Rosshire"
: Somehow, we ended up talking about the weird short forms Scots give to
: certain names - and the following ones were completely alien to him (he's
: from South Queensferry), whereas they're perfectly normal/common in the
: North East, where I'm from (in fact, the examples I've given are all from my
: own family!) ;-).
: Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
Alec ( Icks as my nephew was wont to say in his early years )
: Charles --> Chick/Chae
Charley
: David --> Dite (I suffered from that in school!)
Davey
: George --> Dod
Geordie
: Helen --> Nelly
: Norman --> Nom
In Boston maybe.
--
* Ian B MacLure ********* Sunnyvale, CA ***** Engineer/Archer *****
* No Times Like The Maritimes *************************************
* Opinions Expressed Here Are Mine. That's Mine , Mine, MINE ******
* VR Level=3/Holding **********************************************
Ian Mac Lure
: "Helen Ramsay" <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote in message
: news:mgNL4.222666$Hq3.5...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
:> "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote
: <snip>
:> > Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
:>
:> Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
: No Sye, Helen? My Uncle Sye won't be too happy to hear that! <g>
When you hear someone called "Sye" its generally short for
Silas or Cyril or it used to be when folk got lumbered with
those names.
However it does seem that "Sye" is also used for Alexander
Live and learn.....
Ian Mac Lure
[SNIP]
:>and Elsie.
A cousin of my dad's hasd that name.
[SNIP]
: Because of territorial surnaming left over from the clan system (don't
: even bother trying to find John MacDonald in the Stornoway phonebook
: unless you know his complete address), nicknames are far commoner than
: first name shortening. It was a constant surprise at funeral services
: to discover that people such as Hack the Rocket (Rocket signifying
: "not entirely with us mentally") was actually named Hector John
: MacKenzie.
My forebears include a "Davey Joiner" and a "Sandy Tailor".
"Sandy Tailor" was great friends with gentlemen called
respectively "Sandy Blacksmith", "King's Road Sandy" and one
whole calling eludes me at the moment. Strangers having business
with one or the other would ask for them by their given names
which were identical for all 4 and be led a merry chase by the
locals and god help the poor unfortunate who chanced to ask
one of the 4 for directions to any of them. Their collective
sense of humour was apparently something one had to behold
in person.
: "I am a draper mad with love.
: I love you more than all the flannelette and calico, candlewick,
: dimity, crash and merino, tussore, cretonne, crepon, muslin,
: poplin, ticking and twill in the whole Cloth Hall of the world.
: I have come to take you away to my Emporium on the hill,
: where the change hums on wires.
: Throw away your little bedsocks and your Welsh wool knitted jacket,
: I will lie by your side like the Sunday roast."
I have a sneaking suspicion that one who is not a poet at heart
could never learn to speak Welsh quite correctly although as you
say the effort would be appreciated.
Micheil
Well, Senga is just Agnes backwards.
Micheil
<a*x*har...@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:01:25 -0400, S Viemeister
><she...@viemeister.com> wrote:
>
>>"David A. Allan" wrote:
>>
>>> Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
>>>
>>Also Sawney. Never heard Sye - I've heard Eck for Hector, as well.
>>
>>> Charles --> Chick/Chae
>>>
>>Not heard of Chae.
>>
>
>Never heard of Chae Blyth?
I once rigged a yacht for him and he's from Hawick!
And by the way, it's CHAY.
Anne Jackson
from Ian Mac Lure <i...@svpal.org> contains these words:
> : A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency, being
> : briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a good
> : old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman (who'd
> : been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
> And I suppose you've never heard the story of the great to-do
> that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
> was learned that Russian trroops had landed in Britain.
> Turns out the locals had asked one of a large group of strangers
> in uniform disembarking from the train in some bucolic portion of
> that place (mostly) south of Berwick. The answer they received was
> in thickly accented English and consisted of one word, to whit:
> "Rosshire"
They'd have been Seaforth Highlanders then, most likely?
Your story reminded me of a tale, often recounted by my late ex-husband, when
he'd finished his training in the RAF Regiment in (about) 1944, they were all
lined up on the parade ground, and their names called out with their postings.
It came to Andy's turn - Wingate, Persha! Andy was delighted! Slightly
disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
Anne
Anne
David A. Allan
"Ian Mac Lure" <i...@svpal.org> wrote in message
news:8dqsjs$300j$4...@borg.svpal.org...
> David A. Allan <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
> : "Helen Ramsay" <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote in message
> : news:mgNL4.222666$Hq3.5...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
> :> "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote
> : <snip>
> :> > Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
> :>
> :> Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
>
> : No Sye, Helen? My Uncle Sye won't be too happy to hear that! <g>
>
> When you hear someone called "Sye" its generally short for
> Silas or Cyril or it used to be when folk got lumbered with
> those names.
> However it does seem that "Sye" is also used for Alexander
> Live and learn.....
Indeed we do, Ian! ;-) Thanks for that.
David
David A. Allan
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <glw...@dialstart.net> wrote in message
news:8dq2b5$2lk$6...@gxsn.com...
>
> This is a bizzarre and very confusing set of posts for s.c.s. - The header
> reads 'Scottish Names' and everyone is talking about Scottish Names.
Whats
> going on?
>
> The adorable
> Adam Whyte-Settlar
Patience, Adam, patience... ;-)
David
David A. Allan
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:26:23 +0800, "David A. Allan"
> <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Highlander" <forfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> ><snip>
> >> I grew up around the east coast
> >
> >A Farfir lassie, perchance?! (Just noticed your e-mail address!) ;-)
> >
>
> Letham actually, but my hubby has a passion for bridies, hence my
> e-mail. GRIN
I guess you'll have been at the "Academy" too, then? <g>
David
David A. Allan
<snip>
> And I suppose you've never heard the story of the great to-do
> that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
> was learned that Russian trroops had landed in Britain.
You're right, I hadn't heard of it. ;-)
<snip>
> : Helen --> Nelly
> : Norman --> Nom
>
> In Boston maybe.
Surely that would be "Norm", Ian? This one's "Nom", rhyming with "home".
David
Moses Lambert
news:200004220...@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <8dqs2l$300j$3...@borg.svpal.org>
> from Ian Mac Lure <i...@svpal.org> contains these words:
>
> > : A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency, being
> > : briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a
good
> > : old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman
(who'd
> > : been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were
Russian!
>
> > that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
> > Turns out the locals had asked one of a large group of strangers
> > in uniform disembarking from the train in some bucolic portion of
> > that place (mostly) south of Berwick. The answer they received was
> > "Rosshire"
>
> They'd have been Seaforth Highlanders then, most likely?
>
> Your story reminded me of a tale, often recounted by my late ex-husband,
when
> he'd finished his training in the RAF Regiment in (about) 1944, they were
all
> lined up on the parade ground, and their names called out with their
postings.
>
> It came to Andy's turn - Wingate, Persha! Andy was delighted! Slightly
> disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
>
Bill Potter
>
> My aunt Fannie was also "Sissie". Her real name was Sara
> Aunt Mary was "mum"
> Aunt Elizabeth was "Queenie" since 1936...
>
> Jim Stewart
My Aunt Queenie was Elizabeth. You don't think ... Naw!
I can't think why because Mary (of Jordi V fame) was Queen at the time.
--
William Potter - bpo...@mediaone.net
Bill Potter
Rushing into the rescue ...
I like what the Dutch do to "foreign names". They take them and spell them in
Dutch.
Like Sjaak or Jordi.
Well, give me credit for trying.
Anne Jackson
from Alan Hardie <a*x*har...@clara.co.uk> contains these words:
> >> There was a Chae in Sunset Song. I think it's a North-East thing.
> >
> >Only one problem, Chay Blyth is from Hawick! That's a long way from
> >the North East!
> >
> Nivver, nivver. Newcastle's just doon the road, like. ;-)
Had away, man! (Nice little wriggle, though! <G> )
Anne
Anne Jackson
from "Moses Lambert" <macb...@kdsi.net> contains these words:
> > It came to Andy's turn - Wingate, Persha! Andy was delighted! Slightly
> > disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
> >
> He never made it to Persia, then?
No, he didn't! He did arrive in Palestine the day they blew up the
King David Hotel though!
He got a right gliff, the explosion happened just as he was getting
off the plane!
Anne
Highlander
<daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
>"Highlander" <forfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:jMAAOf8+1+V4KF...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:26:23 +0800, "David A. Allan"
>> <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Highlander" <forfar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> ><snip>
>> >> I grew up around the east coast
>> >
>> >A Farfir lassie, perchance?! (Just noticed your e-mail address!) ;-)
>> >
>>
>> Letham actually, but my hubby has a passion for bridies, hence my
>> e-mail. GRIN
>
>I guess you'll have been at the "Academy" too, then? <g>
>
>David
Oh aye. Six years they put up with me. Mind you. it didnae dae me any
harm! <G> Did all the other local things too. Went to see the Loons
play on a Saturday, got pissed in Troopers and fought with the Kirrie
lassies. <G>
Sue
David A. Allan
<snip>
> Oh aye. Six years they put up with me. Mind you. it didnae dae me any
> harm! <G> Did all the other local things too. Went to see the Loons
> play on a Saturday, got pissed in Troopers and fought with the Kirrie
> lassies. <G>
Sure you're not my wee sister Jennifer?!! Sure sounds like her! <BG>
Guess you'll be much younger than me then - Troopers was still just the
"Queens Hotel Bar" when I was at the Academy.
David
Micheil
>> It came to Andy's turn - Wingate, Persha! Andy was delighted! Slightly
>> disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
>>
>He never made it to Persia, then?
>
Time for a trip to the gas station air pump for a cerebral top up,
Moses...
<jings! crivvens!>
<scots expressions of amazement>
Moses Lambert
news:3901e98d...@news.primus.ca...
greyrover
> The message <fweg0sg...@puffin.dai.ed.ac.uk>
> from Alan Smaill <sma...@dai.ed.ac.uk> contains these words:
>
> > > Senga....Agnes
>
> > I've heard this story, but never credited it.
>
> > Senga is a name in the Ossian story (to pick a neutral
> > word).
>
> > Do you know anyone christened "Agnes" that is known as Senga?
>
> Yes, the wife of a friend of mine is named Agnes, but gets
> called "Senga" as a nickname.
>
> I don't know if she was ever actually "christened" though!
>
> Anne
My aunt Agnes was called 'Aggie' or sometimes 'Agatha', although I don't
know why the 'Agatha' or where it came from.
Greyrover
greyrover
> My family for at least 12 generations have called the eldest son Alexander,
> depending how many generations are alive, we cascade down from Alex
> or Alec, Sandy and then Sye, if your unfortunate and there's 4 generations
> alive you are then called 'the Loon'.
>
> We have traced back to Kincardineshire in 14C, but the Alexander's only
> got going in the early 1800's in Edinburgh, the family then drifted to
> Angus.
>
> My father is still alive (86) and is now called Alex, but was Sandy for most
> of his
> life, thus I'm Sandy, my eldest is ...... I have been both 'the loon' and
> Sye.
>
> I have an Uncle Eck outside Stonehaven, but I don't recall his first name
> being Alex...
>
> Sandy Croall
>
> > Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
> >
> > George --> Dod
> >
> I have an uncle Dod too, Sandy.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Helen
> >
My uncle Alex was called 'Olie' (I'm not sure of the spelling,) until late in
life when the family called him 'Shorty.' He was short, but when I asked my
mother why he was called 'Olie' she had no idea.
Never called 'Sandy' though.
Greyrover
greyrover
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <glw...@dialstart.net> wrote in message
> news:8dq2b5$2lk$6...@gxsn.com...
> >
> > This is a bizzarre and very confusing set of posts for s.c.s. - The header
> > reads 'Scottish Names' and everyone is talking about Scottish Names.
> Whats
> > going on?
> >
> > The adorable
> > Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
> Patience, Adam, patience... ;-)
>
> David
We're trying to confuse people, especially cross-posters.
Greyrover
Bill Potter
>
> The message <sg2dldn...@corp.supernews.com>
> from "Moses Lambert" <macb...@kdsi.net> contains these words:
>
> > > disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
> > >
> > He never made it to Persia, then?
>
> King David Hotel though!
>
> He got a right gliff, the explosion happened just as he was getting
> off the plane!
>
> Anne
Oh wow - small world. My late father, doing his National Service, also landed in
Israel the day they blew up the King David Hotel. Frightened the bloody life out
of him he said. Upto that point he thought he was in for a bit of sun and fun at
the other end of the Med.
I hesitate to give any joy to the anti-semites who too often post here but he
was captured by an Arab militia, held for three days and then sent packing. He
always told us that if he'd been taken by the Israelis, he probably wouldn't
have been around to tell the tale, which means that I wouldn't be around ...
Desperate times lead to desperate measures.
Chic McGregor
<amyg...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>The message <0sd0gsgma8tlkc4ma...@4ax.com>
> from Alan Hardie <a*x*har...@clara.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> >Not heard of Chae.
>> >
>
>> Never heard of Chae Blyth?
>
>> There was a Chae in Sunset Song. I think it's a North-East thing.
>
>Only one problem, Chay Blyth is from Hawick! That's a long way from
>the North East!
>
>Anne
>
My nickname at school was 'Chay', short for Charles. When Che
Guevarra came along in the 60's I changed it to Chic, lest people
thought I was trying to associate with the famous.
I now have a son called Ewen McGregor.
chic
Chic McGregor
>On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:05 +0100, Anne Jackson
><amyg...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>The message <fweg0sg...@puffin.dai.ed.ac.uk>
>> from Alan Smaill <sma...@dai.ed.ac.uk> contains these words:
>>
>>> > Senga....Agnes
>>
>>> I've heard this story, but never credited it.
>>
>>> Senga is a name in the Ossian story (to pick a neutral
>>> word).
>>
>>> Do you know anyone christened "Agnes" that is known as Senga?
>>
>>Yes, the wife of a friend of mine is named Agnes, but gets
>>called "Senga" as a nickname.
>>
>>I don't know if she was ever actually "christened" though!
>>
>>Anne
>>
> Well, Senga is just Agnes backwards.
>
>
That is my understanding, or possibly the reverse.
Senga/Agnes seems to be particularly common in Inverclyde
I don't recall 'Senga' from the Works of Ossian, but there is
definitely a 'Selma',(although a place rather than a person)??
regards
chic
Larry@home
What a wonderful man he (is)?
Do we know if he still lives?
Chic McGregor wrote in message <390239a7....@news.screaming.net>...
Larry@home
be sure they were Russians the reply was "They still has snow on their
boots" a reference nae doobt to their spats.
Moses Lambert wrote in message ...
>Slightly
>> >> disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
>> >>
>> >He never made it to Persia, then?
>> >
Bill Potter
>
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:43:03 GMT, Mic...@Ireland.com (Micheil) wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:05 +0100, Anne Jackson
> ><amyg...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>The message <fweg0sg...@puffin.dai.ed.ac.uk>
> >> from Alan Smaill <sma...@dai.ed.ac.uk> contains these words:
> >>
> >>> > Senga....Agnes
> >>
> >>> I've heard this story, but never credited it.
> >>
> >>> Senga is a name in the Ossian story (to pick a neutral
> >>> word).
> >>
> >>> Do you know anyone christened "Agnes" that is known as Senga?
> >>
> >>Yes, the wife of a friend of mine is named Agnes, but gets
> >>called "Senga" as a nickname.
> >>
> >>I don't know if she was ever actually "christened" though!
> >>
> >>Anne
> >>
> > Well, Senga is just Agnes backwards.
> >
> >
> That is my understanding, or possibly the reverse.
> Senga/Agnes seems to be particularly common in Inverclyde
> I don't recall 'Senga' from the Works of Ossian, but there is
> definitely a 'Selma',(although a place rather than a person)??
>
> regards
> chic
Are you thinking of Selma, Alabama which was a centre of attention for
much of the desecration movement in the early 60's. Don't tell me it's
named after a Scots village.
Anne Jackson
from Bill Potter <bpo...@mediaone.net> contains these words:
> Oh wow - small world. My late father, doing his National Service, also landed in
> Israel the day they blew up the King David Hotel.
He wasn't in the RAF Regiment, was he? BTW, it was still Palestine
at that time.
Anne
Anne Jackson
from chi...@mcgregors.screaming.net (Chic McGregor) contains these words:
> My nickname at school was 'Chay', short for Charles. When Che
> Guevarra came along in the 60's I changed it to Chic, lest people
> thought I was trying to associate with the famous.
> I now have a son called Ewen McGregor.
Wasn't he really good looking though! Che, I mean! I had loads of
posters of him on my walls!
Chay Blyth wasn't too bad, either! We all used to run about on
motorbikes together, before he went into the army, and subsequently
became moderately famous.
Anne
Anne Jackson
from "Larry@home" <la...@fsn.com> contains these words:
> RU any relation to that wonderful Scottish comedian Chic Murray?
> What a wonderful man he (is)?
> Do we know if he still lives?
Chic Murray died a while back.
Anne
Ann Getty
<bpo...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Are you thinking of Selma, Alabama which was a centre of attention for
>much of the desecration movement
????
Erm, surely you mean the *desegregation* movement?
I'm not even going to speculate on what a "desecration" movement might
be....
Ann
Bill Potter
Oops! I read them, I really do read them. It's just that my eyes trust my
fingers more than they should.
Helen Ramsay
> > "Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote
> > >
> > > Helen Ramsay wrote:
> <snip>
> > > Also, Bob's my uncle.
> >
> > I expected ye tae say, "An Fanny's ma aunt!' ;-)
>
> I actually had a Great Aunt Fanny in Aberdeen...never did find out if
that
> actually was her "real" name, though.
>
I believe Fanny is a nickname for Frances.
Cheers,
Helen
Helen Ramsay
>
> This is a bizzarre and very confusing set of posts for s.c.s. - The
header
> reads 'Scottish Names' and everyone is talking about Scottish Names.
Whats
> going on?
Gie it time laddie. Gie it time!
Cheers,
Helen
You don't stop laughing because you grow old;
you grow old because you stop laughing.
Helen Ramsay
> > "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote
> <snip>
> > > Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
> >
> > Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
>
> No Sye, Helen? My Uncle Sye won't be too happy to hear that! <g>
This'll mean anither phone call tae ma Mither!
>
> <snip>
> > > George --> Dod
> >
> > Dod or Geordie
>
> Funnily enough, I have both an Uncle Dod and an Uncle Geordie....
>
> <snip>
> > I had uncles Wat (Walter), Nor(man) pronounced 'Noar',
> > Hen (Henry) Shug (Hugh) and aunts Phem (Euphemia) and
> > Cis (Cecilia)
>
> I'd forgotten Wat (rhyming with "bat"?)
Aye ;-)
Cheers,
Helen
Helen Ramsay
<snip>
>
> In the Highlands, Alasdair is often reduced to Ali. I knew an Ali
> Forbes. Most people find their names being used with an "i" sound on
> the end, like Geordie, Petie, Wullie, etc.
In the Lowlands too;-) My brother-in-law Alasdair spelled it
Ally though.
Cheers,
Helen
Helen Ramsay
> > I'm sure if I asked my granny she's come up with many more that we
> > never hear in everyday conversatiion anymore. Everyone's naming their
> > kids with modern names anymore.
>
> Indeed. One of my cousins has actually named his newborn twin daughters
> Mackenzie and Wilson (!?) - you Ramsays have a lot to answer for, Helen!
;-)
Duh! That went richt ower ma heid son! Explanation please;-)
Cheers,
Helen
Helen Ramsay
<snip>
>
> Because of territorial surnaming left over from the clan system (don't
> even bother trying to find John MacDonald in the Stornoway phonebook
> unless you know his complete address), nicknames are far commoner than
> first name shortening. It was a constant surprise at funeral services
> to discover that people such as Hack the Rocket (Rocket signifying
> "not entirely with us mentally") was actually named Hector John
> MacKenzie.
This reminds me of a piece that took my fancy in Black's Surnames
of Scotland (p. xxxi).
"The great prevalence of certain leading surnames in some small towns
and villages led to the use of to-names, "other names," from Old
English
tö-nama. This condition of affairs has continued to the present day,
particularly in the fishing towns and hamlets on the north-east
coast, where
the fisher-folk might be termed a race apart from the rest of the
population."
* "A stranger had occasion to call on a fisherman, living in one of
the
Buchan fishing villages, of the name of Alexander White. But he
was
ignorant both of his house and his tee-name. Unfortunately there
were
many persons of the name in the village. Meeting a girl he asked -
" 'Cou'd you tell me fa'r Sanny Fite lives?'
" 'Filk Sanny Fite?'
" 'Muckle Sanny Fite.'
" 'Filk muckle Sanny Fite?'
" 'Muckle lang Sanny Fite.'
" 'Filk muckle lang Sanny Fite?'
" 'Muckle lang gleyed Sanny Fite,' shouted the stranger.
" 'Oh! It's "Goup-the-lift" ye're seekin,' cried the girl, 'and fat
the deevil
for dinna ye speer for the man by his richt name at ance?'"
*Blackwood's magazine, Edinburgh, 1842, v.51, p. 300-301.
The article is by Joseph Robertson the historian.
For the uninitiated <g>
filk=which muckle=big lang=tall
gleyed=squint-eyed seekin=looking for speer=ask
goup-the-lift=nickname for a person who has a cast/squint
in the eye.
Cheers,
Helen
Dave Biggar
Maybe you were there that night in Kircaldy many
years ago when Chic introduced his friend 'Mrs. Butta'
who was in the audience; and her husband 'Roland'.
Mr. and Mrs. Roland Butta.
db
David A. Allan
> > I actually had a Great Aunt Fanny in Aberdeen...never did find out if
> that
> > actually was her "real" name, though.
> >
>
> I believe Fanny is a nickname for Frances.
Just spoke to my Mum on the 'phone - turns out Great Aunt's real name was
indeed Fanny...and I was also surprised to learn that my Aunt Nan (who I
have always known as such) is actually also *Fanny*, named after her aunt.
Learn something new every day, so I do - even about my own family! ;-)
David
David A. Allan
> > Mackenzie and Wilson (!?) - you Ramsays have a lot to answer for, Helen!
> ;-)
>
> Duh! That went richt ower ma heid son! Explanation please;-)
Sorry - the cousin in question is a Ramsay! So the wee lassies are
Mackenzie and Wilson Ramsay ;-)
David
David A. Allan
"Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3902EDEB...@sympatico.ca...
<snip>
> Maybe you were there that night in Kircaldy many
> years ago when Chic introduced his friend 'Mrs. Butta'
> who was in the audience; and her husband 'Roland'.
> Mr. and Mrs. Roland Butta.
Am I being particularly thick today, or is this funny? I don't get
it...sorry!
David
Micheil
I was just guessing at the spelling, so yours is probably more
authentic.
- měcheil
- innis dhomh sgéile mu 'n Thěr nan Ňg......
-------------------------------------o0o--------------------------------------
The Blessed Fr. Měcheil ŕ Talisker et Lagavulin, S.J.
-------------------------------------o0o--------------------------------------
Micheil
<hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote:
>"Micheil" <Mic...@Ireland.com> wrote
>
> <snip>
> >
Is there anyone still alive who speaks like this, I wonder? Or is it
all one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent?
Anne Jackson
from "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> contains these words:
> > Mr. and Mrs. Roland Butta.
> Am I being particularly thick today, or is this funny? I don't get
> it...sorry!
Roll and butter....?
Anne
Micheil
McGregor) wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:43:03 GMT, Mic...@Ireland.com (Micheil) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:45:05 +0100, Anne Jackson
>><amyg...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>The message <fweg0sg...@puffin.dai.ed.ac.uk>
>>> from Alan Smaill <sma...@dai.ed.ac.uk> contains these words:
>>>
>>>> > Senga....Agnes
>>>
>>>> I've heard this story, but never credited it.
>>>
>>>> Senga is a name in the Ossian story (to pick a neutral
>>>> word).
>>>
>>>> Do you know anyone christened "Agnes" that is known as Senga?
>>>
>>>Yes, the wife of a friend of mine is named Agnes, but gets
>>>called "Senga" as a nickname.
>>>
>>>I don't know if she was ever actually "christened" though!
>>>
>>>Anne
>>>
>> Well, Senga is just Agnes backwards.
>>
>>
>That is my understanding, or possibly the reverse.
>Senga/Agnes seems to be particularly common in Inverclyde
>I don't recall 'Senga' from the Works of Ossian, but there is
>definitely a 'Selma',(although a place rather than a person)??
>
>regards
>chic
Ah dinnae ken...
This backwards naming is an odd thing isn't it.
If you look in your local phonebook, you might find a Maharg, which is
Graham backwards. There are a couple in Vancouver and quite a few in
Northern Ireland. They're the remnants of the family from the time of
the Union of the Crowns, when King James moved into the Debatable
Lands to finish off the Borderers once and for all. The Grahams,
having much to answer for, sensibly moved to Holland and NI, but some
changed their names to Maharg in the hope of slipping back into
England (because technically, they're an English family who filtered
into Scotland as the border was somewhat ill-defined in those days.)
The only other backwards name I can think of at present is Adanac
Street in Vancouver (Canada, backwards) and the various businesses
associated with it - Adanac Grocery, etc. Anyone got any more?
Micheil
<daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
>"Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:3902EDEB...@sympatico.ca...
><snip>
>> Maybe you were there that night in Kircaldy many
>> years ago when Chic introduced his friend 'Mrs. Butta'
>> who was in the audience; and her husband 'Roland'.
>> Mr. and Mrs. Roland Butta.
>
>Am I being particularly thick today, or is this funny? I don't get
>it...sorry!
>
>David
>
Roll and butter.
Micheil
wrote:
>In article <390242AE...@mediaone.net>, Bill Potter
><bpo...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
>>Are you thinking of Selma, Alabama which was a centre of attention for
>>much of the desecration movement
>
>????
>
>Erm, surely you mean the *desegregation* movement?
>
>I'm not even going to speculate on what a "desecration" movement might
>be....
>
>Ann
Painting Akins face on Christ's image. A popular pastime among his
followers during the height of the desecration era.
Micheil
wrote:
>"David A. Allan" wrote:
>>
>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <glw...@dialstart.net> wrote in message
>> news:8dq2b5$2lk$6...@gxsn.com...
>> >
>> > This is a bizzarre and very confusing set of posts for s.c.s. - The header
>> > reads 'Scottish Names' and everyone is talking about Scottish Names.
>> Whats
>> > going on?
>> >
>> > The adorable
>> > Adam Whyte-Settlar
>>
>> Patience, Adam, patience... ;-)
>>
>> David
>
>Rushing into the rescue ...
>
>I like what the Dutch do to "foreign names". They take them and spell them in
>Dutch.
>Like Sjaak or Jordi.
>
>Well, give me credit for trying.
>--
>William Potter - bpo...@mediaone.net
There's an appropriate Greek girl's name to interest d@ve - Photini.
Micheil
wrote:
>Jim Stewart wrote:
>>
>> My aunt Fannie was also "Sissie". Her real name was Sara
>> Aunt Mary was "mum"
>> Aunt Elizabeth was "Queenie" since 1936...
>>
>> Jim Stewart
>
>My Aunt Queenie was Elizabeth. You don't think ... Naw!
>
>I can't think why because Mary (of Jordi V fame) was Queen at the time.
>
>
>--
>William Potter - bpo...@mediaone.net
Are you talking about Queen Mairi?
Micheil
<daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
>"Helen Ramsay" <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote in message
>news:Y3wM4.238567$Hq3.6...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
>> "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote
><snip>
>> > I actually had a Great Aunt Fanny in Aberdeen...never did find out if
>> that
>> > actually was her "real" name, though.
>> >
>>
>> I believe Fanny is a nickname for Frances.
>
>Just spoke to my Mum on the 'phone - turns out Great Aunt's real name was
>indeed Fanny...and I was also surprised to learn that my Aunt Nan (who I
>have always known as such) is actually also *Fanny*, named after her aunt.
>Learn something new every day, so I do - even about my own family! ;-)
>
>David
>
For some reason in my family it was considered impolite not to be born
with the knowledge of the previous generation's birthdays. I finally
discovered that my mother's birthday was March 14, after 30 years of
grim letters saying, "so you forgot my birthday again..." This seemed
to be a form of oneupmanship, "I know something you don't know - nah
nah nanah nah!"
Micheil
wrote:
>Sandy Croall wrote:
>
>> My family for at least 12 generations have called the eldest son Alexander,
>> depending how many generations are alive, we cascade down from Alex
>> or Alec, Sandy and then Sye, if your unfortunate and there's 4 generations
>> alive you are then called 'the Loon'.
>>
>> We have traced back to Kincardineshire in 14C, but the Alexander's only
>> got going in the early 1800's in Edinburgh, the family then drifted to
>> Angus.
>>
>> My father is still alive (86) and is now called Alex, but was Sandy for most
>> of his
>> life, thus I'm Sandy, my eldest is ...... I have been both 'the loon' and
>> Sye.
>>
>> I have an Uncle Eck outside Stonehaven, but I don't recall his first name
>> being Alex...
>>
>> Sandy Croall
>>
>> > Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
>> >
>> > George --> Dod
>> >
>> I have an uncle Dod too, Sandy.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Helen
>> >
>
>My uncle Alex was called 'Olie' (I'm not sure of the spelling,) until late in
>life when the family called him 'Shorty.' He was short, but when I asked my
>mother why he was called 'Olie' she had no idea.
>
>Never called 'Sandy' though.
>
>Greyrover
>
I've never understood why Dod is the short form of George. Anyone
know?
Micheil
<hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote:
>
>"David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote
>>
>> "Helen Ramsay" <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote
>
>> > "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote
>> <snip>
>> > > Alexander --> Sye (Also Eck, Sandy)
>> >
>> > Eck and Sandy, but not Sye.
>>
>> No Sye, Helen? My Uncle Sye won't be too happy to hear that! <g>
>
> This'll mean anither phone call tae ma Mither!
>>
>> <snip>
>> > > George --> Dod
>> >
>> > Dod or Geordie
Hee's an odd thing - in Gaelic there are two correct ways to say
George - Seoras (SHORE-ass) and Deorsa (JOR-sa). I suspect the first
is a Celtic name which "sounds" vaguely like George and the second is
an attempt to reproduce the name George on the Gaelic tongue.
Bear in mind that older Gaelic people pronounce box as bock-iss and
German as Cherr-a-mun, bath as bass and tractor as trach-tor (loch
sound), so you get some idea of the hopelessness of trying to get
people to say things in the English manner. Like a bunch of Zulus,
that's what West Highlanders are.
(English "Portuguese"; Zulu "Putukisi".
English "cigarette"; Zulu "sigaliti".
My favourite - English "motorbike; Zulu "isi-tututu" (Isi means it's a
noun, tututu is what it sounds like!)
Micheil
<macb...@kdsi.net> wrote:
>"Micheil" <Mic...@Ireland.com> wrote in message
>news:3901e98d...@news.primus.ca...
>> On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:20:43 -0500, "Moses Lambert"
>> <macb...@kdsi.net> wrote:
>> >"Anne Jackson" <amyg...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >news:200004220...@zetnet.co.uk...
>> >> The message <8dqs2l$300j$3...@borg.svpal.org>
>> >> from Ian Mac Lure <i...@svpal.org> contains these words:
>> >>
>> >> > : A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency,
>being
>> >> > : briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and
>had a
>> >good
>> >> > : old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the
>barman
>> >(who'd
>> >> > : been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were
>> >Russian!
>> >>
>> >> > And I suppose you've never heard the story of the great to-do
>> >> > that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
>> >> > was learned that Russian troops had landed in Britain.
>> >> > Turns out the locals had asked one of a large group of strangers
>> >> > in uniform disembarking from the train in some bucolic portion of
>> >> > that place (mostly) south of Berwick. The answer they received was
>> >> > in thickly accented English and consisted of one word, to wit:
>> >> > "Rosshire"
>> >>
>> >> They'd have been Seaforth Highlanders then, most likely?
>> >>
>> >> Your story reminded me of a tale, often recounted by my late
>ex-husband,
>> >when
>> >> he'd finished his training in the RAF Regiment in (about) 1944, they
>were
>> >all
>> >> lined up on the parade ground, and their names called out with their
>> >postings.
>> >>
>> >> It came to Andy's turn - Wingate, Persha! Andy was delighted!
>Slightly
>> >> disappointed though when he arrived at Errol, in *Perthshire*!
>> >>
>> >He never made it to Persia, then?
>> >
>> Time for a trip to the gas station air pump for a cerebral top up,
>> Moses...
>> <jings! crivvens!>
>> <scots expressions of amazement>
>>
>Hey, Micheil - Pfffththbbt...
>
Just a wee slag to keep you alert and on your toes!
Micheil
>David A. Allan <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>: A few days ago, I met a fellow Scot when I was at an ad agency, being
>: briefed by a client. After the meeting, we went for a drink and had a good
>: old blether about all things Scottish and the Scots Leid - the barman (who'd
>: been paying particular attention!) actually asked us if we were Russian!
>
> And I suppose you've never heard the story of the great to-do
> that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
> was learned that Russian trroops had landed in Britain.
> Turns out the locals had asked one of a large group of strangers
> in uniform disembarking from the train in some bucolic portion of
> that place (mostly) south of Berwick. The answer they received was
> in thickly accented English and consisted of one word, to whit:
>
> "Rosshire"
>
This, and larry@home's comment about their white spats (They still had
snow on their boots) explains what has been a complete mystery to me
for most of my life. I've actually lived in Ross-shire yet it never
occurred to me that Ross-shire and Russia sound almost the same and
that this was the source of the story. I always assumed that the
people who spread the story simply weren't too bright! I guess I might
now say the same about myself...
As I get older, I discover more and more incomplete threads in my mind
where I seem to have "filled in the blanks" to bring them to a
conclusion, or as the Americans say, "get closure".
I wonder how many hundreds of people I've misinformed with complete
sincerity about various matters. I suppose that's why there are so
many proverbs and sayings about truth being subjective.
David A. Allan
"Micheil" <Mic...@Ireland.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> Is there anyone still alive who speaks like this, I wonder?
My gran. My father. My mother. *Some* of my sisters and brothers-in-law.
Various aunts, uncles and neighbours. Assorted other residents of NE
Scotland! ;-) (And yes, I have a real hard time of it when I go back for
holidays - "Far wid ye be fae yersel, loun? Thon's a gey furrin cant ye
hiv!" I'm usually too embarrassed to admit I'm actually from thereabouts!
*Sigh* - no muckle crye fur Scots Leid far Ah bide!)
Or is it
> all one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent?
Fortunately, not (yet?).
David
David A. Allan
"Micheil" <Mic...@Ireland.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> Roll and butter.
Thanks, Micheil - I got it about half an hour after I posted the above! ;-)
(Like, "duhhh"!!)
David
David A. Allan
<snip>
> Roll and butter....?
Thanks, Anne - as I just said to Micheil, the proverbial penny *finally* did
drop! ;-)
David
Dave Biggar
"David A. Allan" wrote:
>
> "Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3902EDEB...@sympatico.ca...
> <snip>
> > Maybe you were there that night in Kircaldy many
> > years ago when Chic introduced his friend 'Mrs. Butta'
> > who was in the audience; and her husband 'Roland'.
> > Mr. and Mrs. Roland Butta.
>
> Am I being particularly thick today, or is this funny? I don't get
> it...sorry!
>
The voice and the timing lose much as they pass
through the keyboard. In this case, it is not
evident that he has been in a routine until he says
'Mr and Mrs Roll and Butter' and even that line is
not delivered as a punch line. Actually, it would be
interesting to omit the 'Mr & Mrs Roland Butta' and
leave it to the audience to put the 'Butta' and 'Roland'
together -- if it gave them a smile. Occam would
prefer the latter.
db
db
Séimí mac Liam
David A. Allan <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:8dv020$deb$3...@news4.jaring.my...
>
> "Dave Biggar" <dave....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3902EDEB...@sympatico.ca...
> <snip>
> > Maybe you were there that night in Kircaldy many
> > years ago when Chic introduced his friend 'Mrs. Butta'
> > who was in the audience; and her husband 'Roland'.
> > Mr. and Mrs. Roland Butta.
>
> Am I being particularly thick today, or is this funny? I don't get
> it...sorry!
>
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
My eyes are hazel as well as my nuts"
Canonized December '99
ian.s...@ukgateway.net
Mic...@Ireland.com (Micheil) :
<snip>
>>
>I've never understood why Dod is the short form of George.
>Anyone know?
Think about it ! It's really a piece of cake.
-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.scs.informer.ukgateway.net/
ian.s...@ukgateway.net
Mic...@Ireland.com (Micheil) :
>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:11:02 -0500, "Moses Lambert"
>><macb...@kdsi.net> wrote:
>
>>Hey, Micheil - Pfffththbbt...
>>
>
>Just a wee slag to keep you alert and on your toes!
>
Whit's her name ?
-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.scs.informer.ukgateway.net/
>
Anne Jackson
from "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> contains these words:
> > Roll and butter....?
> Thanks, Anne - as I just said to Micheil, the proverbial penny *finally* did
> drop! ;-)
I had the same problem last week, when someone in zetnet.local mentioned
two sisters, Fiona and Sally, with the surname "Uccers"! I just couldn't
see it! Did I ever feel a numptie, when it was explained! <G>
Anne
Chic McGregor
wrote:
>RU any relation to that wonderful Scottish comedian Chic Murray?
Yes I am, as are you.
>What a wonderful man he (is)?
>Do we know if he still lives?
Yes I do.
chic
Helen Ramsay
> > "David A. Allan" <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote >
> <snip>
> > > Indeed. One of my cousins has actually named his newborn twin
daughters
> > > Mackenzie and Wilson (!?) - you Ramsays have a lot to answer for,
Helen!
> > ;-)
> >
> > Duh! That went richt ower ma heid son! Explanation please;-)
>
> Sorry - the cousin in question is a Ramsay! So the wee lassies are
> Mackenzie and Wilson Ramsay ;-)
I kinda thought that might be the case. I'd like to take this
opportunity
to disassociate myself from that particular branch of the tree ;-)
Cheers,
Helen
You don't stop laughing because you grow old;
you grow old because you stop laughing.
David A. Allan
"Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:kFFM4.357$pK4....@typhoon.aracnet.com...
>
> David A. Allan <daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
> news:8dv020$deb$3...@news4.jaring.my...
<snip>
> > Am I being particularly thick today, or is this funny? I don't get
> > it...sorry!
> >
> Yes and yes.
Thanks, Seimi! <g>
David
David A. Allan
> > Sorry - the cousin in question is a Ramsay! So the wee lassies are
> > Mackenzie and Wilson Ramsay ;-)
>
> I kinda thought that might be the case. I'd like to take this
> opportunity
> to disassociate myself from that particular branch of the tree ;-)
<G>
David
Nmcomm
>>> > that occurred during the 1914-1918 Great Unpleasantness when it
>>> > Turns out the locals had asked one of a large group of strangers
>>> > in uniform disembarking from the train in some bucolic portion of
>>> > that place (mostly) south of Berwick. The answer they received was
>>> > "Rosshire"
>>>
>>> They'd have been Seaforth Highlanders then, most likely?
I think I heard this story as well and that they had horses creating the idea
of them being Cossacks. Made me wonder if they were Lovat Scouts.
Helen Ramsay
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:22:40 GMT, "Helen Ramsay"
> <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote:
> > This reminds me of a piece that took my fancy in Black's Surnames
> > of Scotland (p. xxxi).
<snipped piece in Doric>
> Is there anyone still alive who speaks like this, I wonder? Or is it
> all one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent?
It's definitely not 'one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent'.
My Mother, brother and wife, sister and husband, as well
as aunts, uncles, cousins, neices, nephews etc. all use
broad Scots.
Micheil
<daa...@pd.jaring.my> wrote:
>
>"Micheil" <Mic...@Ireland.com> wrote in message
>news:39030f50...@news.primus.ca...
><snip>
>> Is there anyone still alive who speaks like this, I wonder?
>
>My gran. My father. My mother. *Some* of my sisters and brothers-in-law.
>Various aunts, uncles and neighbours. Assorted other residents of NE
>Scotland! ;-) (And yes, I have a real hard time of it when I go back for
>holidays - "Far wid ye be fae yersel, loun? Thon's a gey furrin cant ye
>hiv!" I'm usually too embarrassed to admit I'm actually from thereabouts!
>*Sigh* - no muckle crye fur Scots Leid far Ah bide!)
>
>Or is it
>> all one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent?
>
>Fortunately, not (yet?).
>
>David
>
In Japan you'd all be National Living Treasures! (An actual title they
bestow on people who have preserved ancient arts and crafts).
Micheil
<hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote:
>"Micheil" <Mic...@Ireland.com> wrote
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 06:22:40 GMT, "Helen Ramsay"
>> <hel...@western.wave.ca> wrote:
> > > This reminds me of a piece that took my fancy in Black's Surnames
>> > of Scotland (p. xxxi).
>
> <snipped piece in Doric>
>
>> Is there anyone still alive who speaks like this, I wonder? Or is it
>> all one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent?
>
> It's definitely not 'one homogenous "BBC Scotland" accent'.
> My Mother, brother and wife, sister and husband, as well
> as aunts, uncles, cousins, neices, nephews etc. all use
> broad Scots.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Helen
>
> You don't stop laughing because you grow old;
> you grow old because you stop laughing.
>
>
I'm glad to hear it. It seems we're becoming an "outpost" people
little outposts of those who still know Scotland's native tongues.
Micheil
David's problem must be infectious - what does it mean?!!!!