Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
La N
From The Times
October 26, 2009
Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
Shotgun and rifle crime has more than doubled in Scotland because police
have been so effective in cracking down on handgun smugglers, it emerged
yesterday.
Gangs finding it harder to access the smaller weapons are instead arming
themselves with shotguns and rifles stolen from licensed holders.
The Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency says that a recent rise in
illegal handgun trade led officers to crack down on smugglers. In response,
many criminals have been robbing legitimate shotgun owners, in particular
focusing their attention on country estates.
New figures show that shotgun and rifle offences are at a ten-year high.
Police recorded 130 offences involving shotguns and rifles between April
2008 and March this year, compared with 59 similar incidents over the
previous 12 months.
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The increase comes as overall firearms crimes in Scotland dropped from 1,125
in 2007-08 to 884 this year.
A Scottish government spokesman said: "The proportion of incidents involving
rifles and shotguns shows we cannot be complacent and must focus efforts on
driving down all categories of gun crime."
Mick North helped to found the Gun Control Network, which campaigns for
tighter controls on firearms, after his daughter Sophie was killed in the
Dunblane massacre. He said: "It's good to see the overall number of firearms
offences has gone down but the rise in incidents involving shotguns and
rifles is very worrying."
The latest figures on firearms offences are likely to fuel renewed calls for
the licensing of air weapons in Scotland - a move supported by the SNP
Administration. At present, firearms legislation is confined to Westminster.
A Scottish government spokesman said: "Of course, air weapons still account
for a very high proportion of all firearms offences in Scotland, and that is
why it is disappointing the UK Government has so far not agreed to transfer
air gun legislation to Scotland, as recommended by the Calman Commission."
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RhaFm.49437$Db2.29865@edtnps83...
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6890065.ece
>
> From The Times
> October 26, 2009
> Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
What a badly written article.
The headline gives the impression that gun crime has gone up when precisely
the opposite is true.
OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban - only shotgun and
rifle crimes have increased.
deem...@aol.com
> "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Well, you gotta use something!
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
news:ffKdnassPLkWG3jX...@westnet.com.au...
That would be a logical outcome.
Now ban shotguns and rifles and watch the bow and arrow crimes go up.
Do you guys discern a pattern here, a pattern that suggests humans will
always find convenient ways to off each other???
sandy58
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
>
> news:ffKdnassPLkWG3jX...@westnet.com.au...
>
>
>
> >news:RhaFm.49437$Db2.29865@edtnps83...
> >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6890065.ece
>
> >> From The Times
> >> October 26, 2009
> >> Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
>
> > What a badly written article.
> > The headline gives the impression that gun crime has gone up when
> > precisely the opposite is true.
> > OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban - only shotgun and
> > rifle crimes have increased.
>
> That would be a logical outcome.
> Now ban shotguns and rifles and watch the bow and arrow crimes go up.
> Do you guys discern a pattern here, a pattern that suggests humans will
> always find convenient ways to off each other???
<grin> Yep.
Nebulous
"conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:n5WdnYF0nMIqWnjX...@giganews.com...
Sure - ban guns and knives, then people will start spooning each other to
death.
Neb
La N
And, how about those broken beer glasses as weapons???!!!
The Phantom Piper
>
> And, how about those broken beer glasses as weapons???!!!
<*sigh*>
_Bottles_, Nilita: it's the broken *BOTTLES*
one uses as a weapon...
Making A Mental Note To Take Nilita
To A Proper Bar-Fight At Some Point,
The Phantom Piper
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Nebulous" <jw...@pigtail.com> wrote in message
news:hc51sa$1kp2$1...@energise.enta.net...
Yep - I can see the headlines now.
34 schoolkids beaten to death by ladel-wielding maniac.
Attack lasts three months.
[shakes head]
What is it about these gun-nuts and their denial.
It's just crazy. The government bans handguns and gun crime goes down (duh)
and these idiots are squealing.
"But how can that POSSIBLY BE!!!?"
As with Climate Change it's not simply worth the bother 'arguing' with them.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
[sigh[
The 'pattern' is that OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN.
Got that.
Not my fault if you can't handle that simple basic and predictable fact.
Allan
"Fred J. McCall" <fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7avce5dmfsvr0c80h...@4ax.com...
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
>
> :
> :"Nebulous" <jw...@pigtail.com> wrote in message
>
> What did overall violent crime do?
The 2008 official stats for Scotland showed a decrease in crimes almost
across the board from the previous year. Total crimes decreased by 8% whilst
breaking it down in to categories non sexual crimes of violence decreased by
9%. I think this is one of those cultural things though. I know there is a
huge gun lobby in the States and I know on the net one comes across American
people (well men anyway) who avidly argue that gun possession reduces crime.
You'll have a hard job persuading most Scots or most other Europeans of that
though. The stats show that Scotland is a violent country as far as Western
European countries go - principally because Glasgow and environs is a
violent place statistically - however bad as it is the murder/homicide rate
here is very small in comparison with the States.
Allan
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Allan" <al...@noemail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AqxFm.1$%f1...@newsfe15.ams2...
> The 2008 official stats for Scotland showed a decrease in crimes almost
> across the board from the previous year. Total crimes decreased by 8%
> whilst breaking it down in to categories non sexual crimes of violence
> decreased by 9%.
Can't you just hear them?:
But how can this POSSIBLY BE???!
We all know violent crime goes UP if you ban guns.
****ing morons.
conwaycaine
"sandy58" <alec...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:a20fffef-8793-4fb1...@e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
<grin> Yep.
***********
We are witnessing the birth of yet another gun control thread and just in
time for Halloween.
(BOO!, everybody)
conwaycaine
Clubs, Neb, clubs would be the next weapon of choice.
Then hand to hand.
Spoons would be way down the list.
Unless you are thinking of spoons made into shanks.
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
>>>>> From The Times
>>>>> October 26, 2009
>>>>> Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
>>>>
>>>> What a badly written article.
>>>> The headline gives the impression that gun crime has gone up when
>>>> precisely the opposite is true.
>>>> OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban - only shotgun
>>>> and rifle crimes have increased.
>>>
>>> That would be a logical outcome.
>>> Now ban shotguns and rifles and watch the bow and arrow crimes go up.
>>> Do you guys discern a pattern here, a pattern that suggests humans will
>>> always find convenient ways to off each other???
>>
>> Sure - ban guns and knives, then people will start spooning each other to
>> death.
>
> Yep - I can see the headlines now.
> 34 schoolkids beaten to death by ladel-wielding maniac.
> Attack lasts three months.
> [shakes head]
>
> What is it about these gun-nuts and their denial.
> It's just crazy. The government bans handguns and gun crime goes down
> (duh) and these idiots are squealing.
> "But how can that POSSIBLY BE!!!?"
> As with Climate Change it's not simply worth the bother 'arguing' with
> them.
You forgot to mention "Rightards" and rabid Christians.............
conwaycaine
:
>
> I'm inclined to agree with you that it's "one of those cultural
> things". Switzerland, which has preposterous numbers of guns in
> private hands for a European country, has very little violent crime
> (and most of that is by 'resident aliens' who are not allowed to have
> guns). Mexico, which has quite stringent gun laws, has a murder rate
> worse than that of the United States.
>
> In general, US States which loosen their gun laws and allow private
> citizens to be armed see a drop in violent crime rates. That won't
> necessarily work anywhere else, so it's certainly not a prescription,
> but there is sufficient evidence to believe it works here.
We are starting to see more and more home invasions here in Charlotte.
We are also starting to see the purchase of more handguns by home owners.
And we are beginning to see home owners potting thugs attempting to break
into their occupied dwellings, even chasing them down the street and
plugging them..
I'll bet you we will soon see a drop in home invasions.
(Crooks may be crooked but they ain't stupid)
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
The article stated "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban -
only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased".
Did you miss "only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased"?
The shotgun and rifle crimes increased because you benighted Brits took away
their handguns.
Got that?
(Not my fault if you can't handle that simple basic and predictable a
statement)
Allan
Well actually no the article doesn't say what you suggest. The handgun ban
was in force long before any of these figures quoted. What the article says
is that there was an increase in handguns because smuggling of illegal
weapons had increased. The police craked down on this crime and the shortage
of handguns caused some to take to theft of rifles and shotguns. So the
number of incidents involving shotguns and rifles had risen by 71 incidents
from the previous year - however the overall number of incidents involving
firearms dropped by 241 in the same period. So the policy was more success
than failure and it was nothing to do with the handgun ban.
Allan
Ian Smith
mair an' gied us this:
In many pubs, certainly in Glasgow, they are serving up pints in plastic
glasses. I kid you not. It's just not right, I tell you! :-)
Allan
"soupdragon" <m...@privacy.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB1E8E2DBB8...@62.141.42.83...
> "Allan" <al...@noemail.co.uk> wrote in
> news:UpHFm.106$Rt5...@newsfe30.ams2:
>
>>
>>> The article stated "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun
>>> ban - only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased".
>>> Did you miss "only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased"?
>>> The shotgun and rifle crimes increased because you benighted Brits
>>> took away their handguns.
>>> Got that?
>>
>> Well actually no the article doesn't say what you suggest. The handgun
>> ban was in force long before any of these figures quoted. What the
>> article says is that there was an increase in handguns because
>> smuggling of illegal weapons had increased. The police craked down on
>> this crime and the shortage of handguns caused some to take to theft
>> of rifles and shotguns.
>
Well quite so, but I don't see the need to stress that, as it isn't the
fault of the police or the authorities. We wouldn't say to the police "look
don't bother trying to stop people forging money as it will only make them
more likely to steal it from other innocent people instead". If the police
succesfully reduce people smuggling illegal weapons and someone steals one
from a licensed dealer instead then it is the fault of the thief and no one
else. The end result was still a drop in firearm crime which despite the
theft must be a good thing.
Allan
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Yes - and?
What the article says
> is that there was an increase in handguns because smuggling of illegal
> weapons had increased. The police craked down on this crime
Yes - they cracked down on illegal handgun possession.
Something they would be pretty hard pushed to do if the handguns were still
legal.
and the shortage
> of handguns caused some to take to theft of rifles and shotguns. So the
> number of incidents involving shotguns and rifles had risen by 71
> incidents from the previous year - however the overall number of incidents
> involving firearms dropped by 241 in the same period. So the policy was
> more success than failure and it was nothing to do with the handgun ban.
Yes - the OVERALL figure dropped.
Which was what I said. The length of time the handgun ban has been in place
is irrelevant.
The number of handgun crimes has dropped since it's introduction - whether
that was ten years ago or ten weeks ago.
>
>
> Allan
Adam Whyte-Settlar
AND there has been a drop in violent crime. Something we were assured by our
gun-nut cousins would be impossible if handguns were banned.
>
> Allan
Robert Peffers
"conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:n5WdnYF0nMIqWnjX...@giganews.com...
>
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> news:ffKdnassPLkWG3jX...@westnet.com.au...
>>
>> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:RhaFm.49437$Db2.29865@edtnps83...
>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6890065.ece
>>>
>>> From The Times
>>> October 26, 2009
>>> Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
>>
>> What a badly written article.
>> The headline gives the impression that gun crime has gone up when
>> precisely the opposite is true.
>
> That would be a logical outcome.
> Now ban shotguns and rifles and watch the bow and arrow crimes go up.
> Do you guys discern a pattern here, a pattern that suggests humans will
> always find convenient ways to off each other???
>
>
The only violent crime to show increase is sex offences.
--
Auld Bob
.
conwaycaine
I still read "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban - only
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> AND there has been a drop in violent crime. Something we were assured by
> our gun-nut cousins would be impossible if handguns were banned.
Come live among us, Adam.
You'll buy your pistol soon enough.
This ain't an English Rose Garden over here.
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
>
> "Allan" <al...@noemail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:UpHFm.106$Rt5...@newsfe30.ams2...
>>
>> "conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:NPGdnQu56bCemnrX...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
>>> news:Xfmdnc6Gc4JTx3vX...@westnet.com.au...
>>>>
>>>> "conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:n5WdnYF0nMIqWnjX...@giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ffKdnassPLkWG3jX...@westnet.com.au...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:RhaFm.49437$Db2.29865@edtnps83...
>>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6890065.ece
>
>> of handguns caused some to take to theft of rifles and shotguns. So the
>> number of incidents involving shotguns and rifles had risen by 71
>> incidents from the previous year - however the overall number of
>> incidents involving firearms dropped by 241 in the same period. So the
>> policy was more success than failure and it was nothing to do with the
>> handgun ban.
>
> Yes - the OVERALL figure dropped.
> Which was what I said. The length of time the handgun ban has been in
> place is irrelevant.
> The number of handgun crimes has dropped since it's introduction - whether
> that was ten years ago or ten weeks ago.
Yes - shotgun and rifle crimes have increased.
Robert Peffers
"The Phantom Piper" <ThePhan...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:79d38dcd-2914-4f17...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 26, 12:53 pm, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> And, how about those broken beer glasses as weapons???!!!
<*sigh*>
_Bottles_, Nilita: it's the broken *BOTTLES*
one uses as a weapon...
Making A Mental Note To Take Nilita
To A Proper Bar-Fight At Some Point,
The Phantom Piper
Nope! Wrong!
--
Auld Bob
Robert Peffers
better guns than the residents, who also are not daft so ... ... ... ... ...
...
--
Auld Bob
The Phantom Piper
>
> Nope! Wrong!
Now here's a Trick which is a Treat:
Go to Google and use Quotes in your search
so that you can narrowthings down; try the
following searches, one right after another:
Search-1: "broken beer glass" weapon
(As I'm quite certain you know _why_ the Quotes
are important in narrowing the search - a technically
minded fellow such as yourself - there's no need to
explain it, yes?)
You'll get back 79 Results. _79_.
Now try it with Search-2: "broken beer bottle" weapon
See that? You now get _Over 350,000_ returns.
So, what have we learnt today? We've learnt that
the ratio of pages referencing the text string :"broken
beer bottle" to the text string "broken beer glass" is
_over 4,430-to-1_ - which is a pretty fair indicator that
it's the Broken Beer Bottles which are best known for
being used as weapons, that's what.
But wait! There's more!
If you substitute the phrase (in Quotes, of course,
to make it a Phrase) "broken pint glass" you get
even *fewer* returns than 79 - 58, to be exact. And
if you use the term 'fight' instead of 'weapon', then
the number of returns for the "broken beer glass"
goes to 86, but the number of returns for: "broken
beer bottle" + fight goest to _over 413,000_, an
even higher ratio than that for the original searches!
Now granted, in bars where beer is not sold in
bottles to the customer, they will perforce be
compelled to improvise with whatever comes to
hand. But I think that ratios of Common Usage
in the range of 4,000-5,000-to-1 make a pretty
clear case as to what the Norm is.
QED,
The Phantom Piper
La N
btw, if there are no no glasses or bottles handy, pool cues will do.
- nilita
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
"Beer glasses"? What kinda namby-pamby effete goober-smoochers
drink beer outta glasses? Mugs are meant for drinking beer....and are
much more useful in a barfight than glasses.
deem...@aol.com
Bar stools.....unlike TV and the movies, they don't break when you
hit someone with them.
La N
To tell the truth, up here we drink from big plastic jugs. They bounce
right off of people's heads. And that's where the pool cue comes in handy.
- nilita
La N
If that doesn't work. You turn a table over on your target and then you get
your pals to jump on top with you in a drunken dog pile.
- nil (has seen it all in her youth)
La N
> deem...@aol.com wrote:
>
> If that doesn't work. You turn a table over on your target and then
> you get your pals to jump on top with you in a drunken dog pile.
>
> - nil (has seen it all in her youth)
btw, my youngest sister used to show how tough she was by opening (capped)
beer bottles with her teeth. She's all grown up now and is embarrassed when
we remind her of her hijinks of those days ...;p
- nilita
Robert Peffers
QED,
The Phantom Piper
Indeed!
Now you type in "Unicorn", (with quotes), and you will get 31,800,000
results for
"Unicorn":
'Nuff said?
--
Auld Bob
Robert Peffers
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:57d088d0-f0c6-4ed4...@d5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
*****************
Wanna bet?
--
Auld Bob
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
Yep.....I'm betting I could cave your face in with a mug before
you could do enough damage to me with a broken glass. Cuts don't
incapacitate unless they're really deep...hard with a broken
glass....or in the "right" spot...also pretty hard with a broken
glass. (Note: this is all theoretical)
Robert Peffers
the 50s. I was doing a stint providing the music for a youth club dance.
(Tape Deck not musical instrument). After this stint I packed up the gear
and just had time to grab a pint at an Edinburgh bar called, "The Main
Point". I have no idea what kicked the brawl off but the next thing I knew
there was bottles, glasses, chairs, ashtrays and bodies flying everywhere. I
backed off to the far end of the bar but this big guy had set his sights on
me. I'd never seen him in my life before. He had a broken bottle in one hand
and a bar tray in the other. I ducked the bottle, kicked him in the goolies
and hit him with the very heavy tape unit. I've never seen anyone go out
quite like that before or since. By luck, for him, the Old Royal Infirmary
was just along the road. After the police investigation it turned out the
only two people in the place that were not members of two local gangs were
me and the barman. Edinburgh was a tough old place back then.
--
Auld Bob
Robert Peffers
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8e947ac0-c14e-43e2...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
The point is that the glass is usually already in hand and there is no need
to break it first. Same applies to the pint joog, (or the bottle used like a
club). The bottle used as a ragged knife has to be broken first and that
takes time.
--
Auld Bob
Robert Peffers
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:56e40704-091a-4717...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Huh! Right poofie places you go to. In the real tough bars the stools are
screwed to the floor.
--
Auld Bob
deem...@aol.com
Well, we were talking about fights with broken bottles and
glasses. I'd still be partial to a mug because they're heavier than a
glass and have a very convenient handle. Of course, many bars have
gone to plastic mugs....rather unsporting if you ask me.
La N
> glasses. I'd still be partial to a mug because they're heavier than a
> glass and have a very convenient handle. Of course, many bars have
> gone to plastic mugs....rather unsporting if you ask me.
Up here in the bars, it's all plastic. In the lounges, it's glass.
btw, in my mom and dad's time, the bars here were referred to as "beer
parlours", and there were two entrances: One for "gents" and the other for
"ladies with escorts". A couple of the bars have kept these signs up just
for the sake of nostalgia.
- nilita
Jeffrey Hamilton
That's only so they no longer have to screen the front of the stage with
chicken-wire, to protect the band.
cheers.....Jeff
deem...@aol.com
> "Allan" <al...@noemail.co.uk> wrote innews:7lLFm.49$Wb4...@newsfe08.ams2:> >news:Xns9CB1E8E2DBB8...@62.141.42.83...
> >> "Allan" <al...@noemail.co.uk> wrote in
> >>news:UpHFm.106$Rt5...@newsfe30.ams2:
>
> >>>> The article stated "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the
> >>>> handgun ban - only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased".
> >>>> Did you miss "only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased"?
> >>>> The shotgun and rifle crimes increased because you benighted Brits
> >>>> took away their handguns.
> >>>> Got that?
>
> >>> Well actually no the article doesn't say what you suggest. The
> >>> handgun ban was in force long before any of these figures quoted.
> >>> What the article says is that there was an increase in handguns
> >>> because smuggling of illegal weapons had increased. The police
> >>> to take to theft of rifles and shotguns.
>
>
> > Well quite so, but I don't see the need to stress that,
>
> Isn't it a long-held belief by gun nuts in the US, that
> guns in the hands of the law-abiding citizen are a bulwark
> against crims? Looks like it's an attraction to them.-
Both can be true. Areas with more lenient permit laws see a drop
in crime, but the more guns around, the more likely they are to be
stolen. Guns are prime targets in burglaries....a good gun safe helps.
The Phantom Piper
>
> Mugs are meant for drinking beer....and are
> much more useful in a barfight than glasses.
"broken beer mug" weapon = _19_ Results
"broken beer mug" fight = _28_ Results
Thank You For Helping Prove The Point,
The Phantom Piper
The Phantom Piper
>
> Indeed!
> Now you type in "Unicorn", (with quotes), and you will get 31,800,000
> results for
> "Unicorn":
> 'Nuff said?
Funny, and here I thought we were talking
about *What We Were Talking About*...
Watching Bob Jink And Jive,
The Phantom Piper
The Phantom Piper
>
> Wanna bet?
Yeah, go fight with Nilita now...
(Try not to get *too* badly whipped!)
Calling The Paramedics,
The Phantom Piper
deem...@aol.com
La N
I have in my fist the glass shards o' death steenkin' of Moosehead!
- nilita ("come hither, you'll hardly feel a thing")
Allan
"conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:IaOdnTJuBNsv0HXX...@giganews.com...
>
> "Allan" <al...@noemail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:UpHFm.106$Rt5...@newsfe30.ams2...
>> "conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message>>>>>> news:RhaFm.49437$Db2.29865@edtnps83...
>>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6890065.ece
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From The Times
>>>>>>> October 26, 2009
>>>>>>> Gun crime in Scotland hits ten-year high
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a badly written article.
>>>>>> The headline gives the impression that gun crime has gone up when
>>>>>> precisely the opposite is true.
>>>>>> OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban - only shotgun
>>>>>> and rifle crimes have increased.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now ban shotguns and rifles and watch the bow and arrow crimes go up.
>>>>> Do you guys discern a pattern here, a pattern that suggests humans
>>>>> will always find convenient ways to off each other???
>>>>
>>>> [sigh[
>>>> The 'pattern' is that OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN.
>>>> Got that.
>>>>
>>>> Not my fault if you can't handle that simple basic and predictable
>>>> fact.
>>>
>>>
>>> The article stated "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun
>>> ban - only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased".
>>> Did you miss "only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased"?
>>> The shotgun and rifle crimes increased because you benighted Brits took
>>> away their handguns.
>>> Got that?
>>
>> Well actually no the article doesn't say what you suggest. The handgun
>> ban was in force long before any of these figures quoted. What the
>> article says is that there was an increase in handguns because smuggling
>> of illegal weapons had increased. The police craked down on this crime
>> and the shortage of handguns caused some to take to theft of rifles and
>> risen by 71 incidents from the previous year - however the overall number
>> of incidents involving firearms dropped by 241 in the same period. So the
>> policy was more success than failure and it was nothing to do with the
>> handgun ban.
>
> I still read "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban - only
************************
My point was that you said the article states that the overall gun crime
figures have gone down "since the handgun ban" but it doesn't say that. It
is talking about the last year only. All the figures quoted in the article
are long after the hand gun ban.
Allan
Adam Whyte-Settlar
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:909e0cc7-e541-41ad...@y32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Which is perhaps why there are strict laws governing the storage of guns in
Scotland.
A safe cupboard with locks and ammo stored seperately etc.
OK - people get lax and shotguns do get stolen but the pigs do check up on
licensed gun holders to make sure they comply.
Last year (2007 - 2008) there were a sum total of precisely TWO murders with
guns in Scotland.(one handgun and one shotgun) - with a population of about
five million.
http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF04.htm
Scale that up to the US population of 300 million and a comparable figure
would be about 120 homicides with guns
The actual figure was 9369 murders with guns. Yep - Nine thousand three
hundred and sixty nine. (and that's not even including so-called
'justifiable homicides')
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Oh dear.
I mean is there really even an argument here?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
> Yes - shotgun and rifle crimes have increased.
Total number of people killed by shotgun in Scotland 2007-2008?
ONE.
Get a life.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>> I still read "OVERALL gun crime has gone DOWN since the handgun ban -
>> only shotgun and rifle crimes have increased.
>
> ************************
>
> My point was that you said the article states that the overall gun crime
> figures have gone down "since the handgun ban" but it doesn't say that. It
> is talking about the last year only. All the figures quoted in the article
> are long after the hand gun ban.
Yeah - OK
Like I already said it's a really badly written article and it's difficult
to figure out just What it IS trying to say.
But the FACT is; only ONE person has been murdered with a shotgun for the
year 2007 - 2008 - the latest figures I could find.
The headline is extremely misleading, Intentionaly in my opinion.
Compared to a certain country where there are more guns than people gun
crime is practically non-existant.
Allan
"Fred J. McCall" <fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e9die51351ftaa2d7...@4ax.com...
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
>
> :
> :Last year (2007 - 2008) there were a sum total of precisely TWO murders
> :guns in Scotland.(one handgun and one shotgun) - with a population of
> about
> :five million.
> :http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF04.htm
> :
> :Scale that up to the US population of 300 million and a comparable figure
> :would be about 120 homicides with guns
> :
> :The actual figure was 9369 murders with guns. Yep - Nine thousand three
> :hundred and sixty nine. (and that's not even including so-called
> :'justifiable homicides')
> :http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
> :
> :Oh dear.
> :
> :I mean is there really even an argument here?
>
> No, there isn't, because a country the size of Scotland that sparsely
> populated would be totally different from the US, even if it was
> culturally similar (which it ain't).
Most of the country is sparsely populated it is true but that argument
doesn't work because most Scots are urban dwellers living in the small
Central Belt area and a good proportion of those live in Glasgow and
environs which is thought to be one of the most violent and deprived urban
conurbations in Europe. The thought of all those brainless neds running
about with pistols would be quite frankly bloody horrific.
Allan
Allan
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
I agree with you entirely but like I say this is a cultural thing here and I
think we are in a non winnable argument. The bare stats do speak for
themselves and the US murderdeathkill rate is truly horrific. The UK is a
hihgly urbanised nation with all the normal inner city deprevation etc so in
many ways it is similar to the US. One would expect us to have roughly the
same rate but ours is pretty insignificant compared with them. So
insignificant that a few years back one mass murderer's deeds (ie Harold
Shipman) caused the overall rate to rocket. Yet in group after group on
newsnet you can find American gun enthusiasts lecturing British people on
how to protect citizens. I find it quite puzzling but I think they do
genuinely and firmly believe this and no amount of showing stats etc is
going to make a blind bit of difference. It is in the genes - or at least in
the holster in the jeans.
Allan
Allan
Robert Peffers
horseshoe shaped.
Two entrances from the street with the bar in the centre.
They also had the lounge bar, the Snug bar and private rooms and lounges.
The horse shoe bars brass gutters running round the foot of the bar that
these were edged by stout brass footrail.
The floors were covered in sawdust.
There was usually one, or more, open fireplaces.
The Barmaid's last job after closing time was to collect the clay pipes from
the tables and place them in the embers of the open fires.
In the morning the clay pipes were removed, the mouthpiece ends were dipped
in red paint and, when dry, were refilled ready for resale.
Most of these old bars were, "Modernised", years ago and with the
modernisation lost much of the atmosphere they were famous for.
I've not been to Edinburgh city centre for many years but the last time I
did visit I called in at, "The Barley Bree", in Morrison Street.
This was once just such a horse shoe bar.
It had been, "Modernised", and was rather sterile and dead, yet it was once
among the best pubs in the Capital.
--
Auld Bob
Robert Peffers
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
Like a robbery where the robber points a gun.
It was not talking about either injury or death with firearms.
--
Auld Bob
Robert Peffers
The subject was Scottish gun figures not UK gun figures.
The UK figures are much worse than those of Scotland.
--
Auld Bob
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Robert Peffers" <peff...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:fsCdnT3pHsX8z3XX...@bt.com...> news:q-OdnTFW0Iq3m3rX...@giganews.com...
>>
>> We are starting to see more and more home invasions here in Charlotte.
>> We are also starting to see the purchase of more handguns by home owners.
>> And we are beginning to see home owners potting thugs attempting to break
>> into their occupied dwellings, even chasing them down the street and
>> plugging them..
>> I'll bet you we will soon see a drop in home invasions.
>> (Crooks may be crooked but they ain't stupid)
>>
>>
>>
>>
> No they ain't. That is why you will soon see the crooks getting bigger and
> better guns than the residents, who also are not daft so ... ... ... ...
> ...
Too right - if I was going to burgle a house in the US I'd lob in a couple
of hand grenades first just to make sure.
Can't be too carefull these days - there's a lot of violent people about.
deem...@aol.com
> "Robert Peffers" <peffer...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fsCdnT3pHsX8z3XX...@bt.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "conwaycaine" <conwayca...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >news:q-OdnTFW0Iq3m3rX...@giganews.com...
>
> >> We are starting to see more and more home invasions here in Charlotte.
> >> We are also starting to see the purchase of more handguns by home owners.
> >> And we are beginning to see home owners potting thugs attempting to break
> >> into their occupied dwellings, even chasing them down the street and
> >> plugging them..
> >> I'll bet you we will soon see a drop in home invasions.
> >> (Crooks may be crooked but they ain't stupid)
>
> > No they ain't. That is why you will soon see the crooks getting bigger and
> > better guns than the residents, who also are not daft so ... ... ... ...
> > ...
>
> Too right - if I was going to burgle a house in the US I'd lob in a couple
> of hand grenades first just to make sure.
> Can't be too carefull these days - there's a lot of violent people about.
That tends to screw up the merchandise. I'd just wait until I was
pretty certain no one was home.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
> "Fred J. McCall" <fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e9die51351ftaa2d7...@4ax.com...
>> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :Last year (2007 - 2008) there were a sum total of precisely TWO murders
>> with
>> :guns in Scotland.(one handgun and one shotgun) - with a population of
>> about
>> :five million.
>> :http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF04.htm
>> :
>> :Scale that up to the US population of 300 million and a comparable
>> figure
>> :would be about 120 homicides with guns
>> :
>> :The actual figure was 9369 murders with guns. Yep - Nine thousand three
>> :hundred and sixty nine. (and that's not even including so-called
>> :'justifiable homicides')
>> :http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
>> :
>> :Oh dear.
>> :
>> :I mean is there really even an argument here?
Idiot troll snipped.
> Most of the country is sparsely populated it is true but that argument
> doesn't work
He's just trolling me as usual. Even he can't be *that* ****ing stupid
surely?
because most Scots are urban dwellers living in the small
> Central Belt area and a good proportion of those live in Glasgow and
> environs which is thought to be one of the most violent and deprived urban
> conurbations in Europe. The thought of all those brainless neds running
> about with pistols would be quite frankly bloody horrific.
Jesus - it doesn't bear thinking about does it.
Scotland with the same level of guns as the US!! Woo hoo!
That would make something like a million guns in Glasgow alone.
Can you imagine!
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Yet in group after group on
> newsnet you can find American gun enthusiasts lecturing British people on
> how to protect citizens.
10,000 gun murders and they are lecturing us.
It's right up there with the 'we saved you' myth.
I find it quite puzzling but I think they do
> genuinely and firmly believe this and no amount of showing stats etc is
> going to make a blind bit of difference. It is in the genes - or at least
> in the holster in the jeans.
Oh it's all in the jeans allright.
Let's face it - with 90% of them it's a penis substitute. Nothing more
nothing less.
And NONE of them will EVER admit to that so they invent these wild claims in
the face of incontrovertible evidence.
Like "Pro rata Scotland has 200 murders to the USA's 9700+ because we have
bigger cities"!
: ))
I mean you couldn't make that stuff up.
But nothing new there really.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
No - but If you check the link I posted it gives a complete breakdown on ALL
the various crimes. From pointing a replica, to shooting someone in the arse
with an air pistol, to murder.
And in 2007 - 2008 in Scotland it clearly shows ONE murder with a shotgun
and ONE murder with a handgun.
MOST of the gun crime - the overwhelming majority in fact - is with air
rifles.
Not really even a 'firearm' - not that that is any consolation of you get a
lead pellet in your eye of course.
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> Too right - if I was going to burgle a house in the US I'd lob in a couple
> of hand grenades first just to make sure.
> Can't be too carefull these days - there's a lot of violent people about.
Oh, crikeies, I forgot # 7 on the boom boom list--American Gun Nutters.
Sorry 'bout that.
conwaycaine
>Yet in group after group on newsnet you can find American gun enthusiasts
>lecturing British people on how to protect citizens.
I've noticed that.
The airwaves are virtually flooded with unsolicited advice on gun
ownership.
Oh wait. You are speaking of Americans lecturing the Brits.
conwaycaine
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
As I pointed out, the articles stated that crimes had increased.
And here you leap to a totally irrelevant stat on shotgun murders
What a devious auld git you are.
Blamity, blamity, blamity!
Blamity, blamity, boom!
Robert Peffers
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
"Unfortunate Accident", like when the little kid gets hold of Daddies big
gun and kills his sister while playing cowboys & Indians. You know the type
I mean? Where Daddy just forgot to unload the big gun after playing with it
and then left it in the bedside cabinet instead of locking it away in the
gunsafe with the magazine locked away in the ammo safe. Then the wee
accident where Daddy blows his own head off while cleaning his big gun or
accidentally blows Mummy's head off while cleaning his big gun. Then there
are the ones where Mummy blows Daddy's head off while tidying up and putting
Daddies big gun away in the gun safe.
Well! I mean, these are just accidents, aren't they?
--
Auld Bob
Jeffrey Hamilton
LoL, what are you threatening him with, a close _shave_ ?
cheers......Jeff
The Phantom Piper
>
> No, mostly they're fantasies. Such incidents
> are pretty much as rare as hens' teeth here.
http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/gun_accidents_kill_500_kids_each_year.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l0SoV68BQU
Locked And Loaded,
The Phantom Piper
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
> "The Phantom Piper" <ThePhan...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:79d38dcd-2914-4f17...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 26, 12:53 pm, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> And, how about those broken beer glasses as weapons???!!!
>
> <*sigh*>
>
> _Bottles_, Nilita: it's the broken *BOTTLES*
> one uses as a weapon...
>
>
> Making A Mental Note To Take Nilita
> To A Proper Bar-Fight At Some Point,
>
> The Phantom Piper
> Nope! Wrong!
Courier Mail (Australian newspaper)
"...THE State Government's push to ban glasses in licensed venues has
received a setback, with a government-backed study finding plastic will not
cut alcohol-fuelled violence.
Forty-one "high risk" pubs and clubs in Queensland face a ban on serving
drinks in glass as of December 1. The ban might be extended to every pub and
club in the state from next year.
But a Griffith University report examining glassings in Gold Coast venues
has found plastic will not reduce the violence on our streets..."
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26223572-23272,00.html
La N
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
pa da bim!
- nil
Adam Whyte-Settlar
> The point is that the glass is usually already in hand and there is no
> need to break it first.
Yep - seen it done a few times.
In fact a good mate of mine in Drumnadrochit did exactly that more or less
accidentally.
Leastways it wasn't premeditated. He just happened to have the glass in his
hand when attacked and intinctively hit back whilst still holding the glass.
He had a hard time convincing the judge of this fact but several witnesses
testified that it was indeed the case and he got off.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:56e40704-091a-4717...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 28, 10:48 am, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Robert Peffers wrote:
> > "The Phantom Piper" <ThePhantomPi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:79d38dcd-2914-4f17...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 26, 12:53 pm, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> And, how about those broken beer glasses as weapons???!!!
>
> > <*sigh*>
>
> > _Bottles_, Nilita: it's the broken *BOTTLES*
> > one uses as a weapon...
>
> > Making A Mental Note To Take Nilita
> > To A Proper Bar-Fight At Some Point,
>
> > The Phantom Piper
> > Nope! Wrong!
>
>
> - nilita-
Bar stools.....unlike TV and the movies, they don't break when you
hit someone with them.
LOL
Yeah - a friend of mine in Edinburgh discovered that. He braced himself for
the chair to break over his forarms and shoulders planning to come back with
a viscious uppercut.
He woke up in the Royal Infirmary about an hour later.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
> La N wrote:
>> deem...@aol.com wrote:
> >
>> If that doesn't work. You turn a table over on your target and then
>> you get your pals to jump on top with you in a drunken dog pile.
>>
>> - nil (has seen it all in her youth)
>
> btw, my youngest sister used to show how tough she was by opening (capped)
> beer bottles with her teeth. She's all grown up now and is embarrassed
> when we remind her of her hijinks of those days ...;p
I forget the exact figure now but literaly hundreds of Ozzies end up in
hospital trying to do that every year.
Not sure if it's the *same* Ozzies every year but I wouldn't be surprised.
It's SO typical of here. They believe their own hype like no other race I
know.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e4657ed7-ce13-48bd...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Why take the risk.
There's bound to be undamaged goods and you 'd have plenty of time to search
through it all.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Oh DO shut up, you STUPID old fart.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
>
> "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote in message
> news:H8ydnTZ8xpLRnnTX...@westnet.com.au...
>>
>> "conwaycaine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:nKqdnURgAPPM03XX...@giganews.com...
>>
>>> Yes - shotgun and rifle crimes have increased.
>>
>>
>> Total number of people killed by shotgun in Scotland 2007-2008?
>>
>> ONE.
>>
>> Get a life.
>
> As I pointed out, the articles stated that crimes had increased.
And as *I* pointed out they didn't. The article is wrong.
> And here you leap to a totally irrelevant stat on shotgun murders
> What a devious auld git you are.
GEEzuss! You get worse by the day.
It was YOU who brought up SHOTGUNS you doddering imbecile!!
LOOK. It's right there above.
That's why *I* took the touble to find the stats for YOU, moron.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Given that our gun crime rate is about 1 50 th of yours I think we have the
moral duty to try to help you.
We certainly don't need any advice from you.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
On Oct 29, 7:41 am, Fred J. McCall <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No, mostly they're fantasies. Such incidents
> are pretty much as rare as hens' teeth here.
http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/gun_accidents_kill_500_kids_each_year.php
So that means more schoolkids are killed by accident than are murdered on
purpose?
I'm not sure if I 've got this 'gun-nut logic' quite right but SFAIUI
that's a GOOD thing isn't it?
La N
Yabbut ... somebody's going to say that website is sponsored by, written by
"moms". And what do "moms" know, eh? ..;)
Some very sad stories.
- nilita
The Phantom Piper
>
> So that means more schoolkids are killed by accident
> than are murdered on purpose?
Not sure about that: we are working on it, you know!
Just recently, laws have been passed allowing handguns
to be carried in Bars (Tennessee), Trains (Nationwide, on
the Federally-Funded AMTRAK) and in National Parks.
There are multiple instances of various local governments
trying to pass laws allowing them in Schools.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31122117/
(My favourite quote out of this was from a television
interview before the fact with a fellow who owns several
bars in Nashville - paraphrasing: "If this goes through,
I'm going to sell all of my bars and go into the Mortuary
Business.")
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/16/amtrak.guns/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88552637
From Wild'n'Wooly Wacky Wunnerful
Rootin' Tootin' Shootin' *Yee-Haw*! Land,
The Phantom Piper