Shame on Russia..rigged elction
Celtic King
central square and turned it into a defiant sea of orange flags to
denounce the results of a presidential election.
Pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich has declared victory over
pro-Western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko in the disputed poll.
As counting continued, car horns honked in protest across the
Ukrainian capital and people crowded into Kiev's landmark Independence
Square, where the opposition had set up a stage.
Mr Yushchenko appeared to roars of adulation, and organisers said they
would stay put until parliament annulled the election's results.
The crowds were entertained by an all-night rock concert and
celebrated when news filtered in that the Kiev city council - along
with two other cities - had refused to recognise the election results
as valid.
Everywhere the protesters displayed the opposition's orange colour.
They waved orange flags, wore orange scarves and tied orange ribbons
to their lapels.
The night was lit up by orange floodlights just a short distance away
from the parliament and presidential administration buildings.
"Yushchenko president!" protesters chanted. "Shame on the government!"
"We are launching an organised movement of civil resistance. The
campaign is only just beginning. Don't leave Independence Square until
victory," Mr Yushchenko said to deafening cheers from the crowd.
But underlining the polarised state of Ukrainian politics, a
counter-demonstration, flying Russian flags, was staged in the
pro-Moscow Black Sea city of Simferopol, were tens of thousands
celebrated Mr Yanukovich's declared victory.
So far, only Russian parliament speaker Boris Gryzlov has
congratulated Mr Yanukovich on the result, condemning the Kiev
demonstrations as a farce.
Despite the rumblings from Moscow, the Kiev square was a seething mass
as the old, young and parents with children on their shoulders jostled
for a view of their champion Mr Yushchenko.
A huge yellow banner of the youth movement Pora (It is Time), which is
hoping to follow the example of peaceful revolutions in fellow
ex-Soviet Georgia last year and Serbia in 2000, fluttered above the
square.
Yushchenko ally Yulia Timoshenko called for a general strike. "We
cannot work and study in a country whose government is ready to
violate it," she said.
Security was tight around the capital, with special riot forces
standing guard around the central election commission and the
presidency, a stone's throw from Independence Square.
Russian liberal opposition leader Boris Nemtsov, a former deputy prime
minister who has been sidelined from political life under the
authoritarian rule of President Vladimir Putin, helped fire up the
crowd.
He appeared on the stage to say that he had come "to support my friend
Yushchenko, and so you know that not all of Russia supports
Yanukovich".
Russian President Vladimir Putin twice visited Ukraine in the run-up
to the election and gave his public support to the pro-Kremlin prime
minister.
"We need freedom and democracy in Ukraine, we need freedom and
democracy in Russia. We must stand up not only for your freedom but
for our freedom," Mr Nemtsov said to cheers.
The opposition had set up 27 tents, one for each region of Ukraine, in
Independence Square to carry out a parallel vote count.
The voting results arrived in a trickle from midnight, and the tents
were not heated despite freezing winter temperatures, but students and
young volunteers were happy to be "at the centre of events".
"It's an historic moment that I will one day tell my children about. I
am happy to see the results with my own eyes. They are so different to
what the state television tells us", said student Yulia Klech, who was
counting votes from Kiev.
kirill
Celtic King upon finding out about a place called Ukraine wrote:
>
> TENS of thousands of Ukrainian protesters have taken over Kiev's
> central square and turned it into a defiant sea of orange flags to
> denounce the results of a presidential election.
If it was hundreds of thousands or millions then that would be something
special. Bussing in militants from western Ukrainian regions is lame.
>
> Pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich has declared victory over
> pro-Western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko in the disputed poll.
Interesting how western media declares everything to be either pro-Russian
or pro-West. Typical agitprop painting everything in the colours of us
and them.
> "Yushchenko president!" protesters chanted. "Shame on the government!"
>
> "We are launching an organised movement of civil resistance. The
> campaign is only just beginning. Don't leave Independence Square until
> victory," Mr Yushchenko said to deafening cheers from the crowd.
The polls never showed Yuschenko with more than 52% support. Considering
that the pollsters were sponsored from abroad this is quite pathetic. If
Yuschenko was the clear choice then he would have gotten over 60% in the
polls and ballots. As it stands his 47% ballot result is completely in
line with his true support.
>
> But underlining the polarised state of Ukrainian politics, a
> counter-demonstration, flying Russian flags, was staged in the
> pro-Moscow Black Sea city of Simferopol, were tens of thousands
> celebrated Mr Yanukovich's declared victory.
Inflammatory drivel. Pro Yanukovich doesn't make one automatically
pro-Moscow. Perhaps this media drone could call pro Yuschenko people
as pro-Washington.
>
> So far, only Russian parliament speaker Boris Gryzlov has
> congratulated Mr Yanukovich on the result, condemning the Kiev
> demonstrations as a farce.
Which they plainly are. Much like the die hard Chavez haters in
Venezuela who don't have the decency to admit that they are not
the one and only opinion in the land.
Of course no mention in this micky mouse story about the fraud in
favour of Yuschenko. Or even a mention of the fact that an Austrian
doctor who examined Yuschenko's claims of being poisoned was threatened
by Yuschenko loyalists when he found no evidence for the claim.
Fingal
wrote:
>
>
>Celtic King upon finding out about a place called Ukraine wrote:
>>
>> TENS of thousands of Ukrainian protesters have taken over Kiev's
>> central square and turned it into a defiant sea of orange flags to
>> denounce the results of a presidential election.
>
>If it was hundreds of thousands or millions then that would be something
>special. Bussing in militants from western Ukrainian regions is lame.
>
>>
>> Pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich has declared victory over
>> pro-Western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko in the disputed poll.
>
>Interesting how western media declares everything to be either pro-Russian
>or pro-West. Typical agitprop painting everything in the colours of us
>and them.
Yushchenko's camp has cried foul about any Russian involvement, but
remained strangely quiet about foreign funds and expertise used in
Yushchenko's bid.
Last night's TV shots of Maidan Nezalezhnosti showed the Georgian flag
prominent among the "Tak!" ones. No coincidence there. This scenario
has been worked out in advance.
In an aside to my wife, I said that I would be physically ill, if
Yushchenko were to appear with a rose in his hand, a la Saakashvili.
Sure enough, he did.
Poor downtrodden Channel 5 was in full agitprop mode last night. No
matter whom you sport, if you think that state television was
overwhelmingly slanted towards Yanukovich, you'd have to agree that
last night was a Channel 5 farce. Two examples:
* a reporter gets in the face of a GAI officer, pointedly asking why
he was only stopping vehicles selectively (as they always do.) He
answered quite reasonably, "We can't stop ALL of them!"
* a reporter and camera film some people who came up from Kharkiv (I
think) to support Yanukovich. They pick a drunk woman to interview.
Any chance that some of the people in the cold on the Maidan had had a
few?
I don't doubt that there was fraud on the Yanukovich side. AND on the
other side as well. Yanukovich's camp is now pretty quiet, but the
Yushchenko camp is in full cry. The former is in a tough position:
all it seems to me that they can do is try to wait it out. Yushchenko
et al must be praying for a couple of newsworthy deaths among the
demonstrators, but as yet Yanukovich has not been obliging them.
>> "Yushchenko president!" protesters chanted. "Shame on the government!"
>>
>> "We are launching an organised movement of civil resistance. The
>> campaign is only just beginning. Don't leave Independence Square until
>> victory," Mr Yushchenko said to deafening cheers from the crowd.
>
>The polls never showed Yuschenko with more than 52% support. Considering
>that the pollsters were sponsored from abroad this is quite pathetic. If
>Yuschenko was the clear choice then he would have gotten over 60% in the
>polls and ballots. As it stands his 47% ballot result is completely in
>line with his true support.
When did exit polls become such an important and precise instrument?
They weren't accurate in the last U.S. election, so why should anyone
place so much faith in them now in Ukraine?
>> But underlining the polarised state of Ukrainian politics, a
>> counter-demonstration, flying Russian flags, was staged in the
>> pro-Moscow Black Sea city of Simferopol, were tens of thousands
>> celebrated Mr Yanukovich's declared victory.
>
>Inflammatory drivel. Pro Yanukovich doesn't make one automatically
>pro-Moscow. Perhaps this media drone could call pro Yuschenko people
>as pro-Washington.
The fact that even the DIF-sponsored (i.e. bankrolled) exit polling
showed over 40% for Yanukovich proves that his support is not coming
purely from ethnic Russians anyway.
The Black Monk
> Celtic King upon finding out about a place called Ukraine wrote:
> >
> > TENS of thousands of Ukrainian protesters have taken over Kiev's
> > central square and turned it into a defiant sea of orange flags to
> > denounce the results of a presidential election.
>
> If it was hundreds of thousands or millions then that would be something
> special. Bussing in militants from western Ukrainian regions is lame.
The number is 200,000 and growing (as of 11:00 eastern standard time).
And the Vynnytsia government has declared that only Yushechnko is
recognized as the president by them, meaning that support for him is
far from a Galician thing.
> > Pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich has declared victory over
> > pro-Western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko in the disputed poll.
>
> Interesting how western media declares everything to be either pro-Russian
> or pro-West. Typical agitprop painting everything in the colours of us
> and them.
Sure.
> > "Yushchenko president!" protesters chanted. "Shame on the government!"
> >
> > "We are launching an organised movement of civil resistance. The
> > campaign is only just beginning. Don't leave Independence Square until
> > victory," Mr Yushchenko said to deafening cheers from the crowd.
>
> The polls never showed Yuschenko with more than 52% support.
And Yanukovich with less than that.
> Considering that the pollsters were sponsored from abroad
Not all of them.
> this is quite pathetic. If
> Yuschenko was the clear choice then he would have gotten over 60% in the
> polls and ballots. As it stands his 47% ballot result is completely in
> line with his true support.
So because the other side cheated by only a few percent that made it
okay?
> > But underlining the polarised state of Ukrainian politics, a
> > counter-demonstration, flying Russian flags, was staged in the
> > pro-Moscow Black Sea city of Simferopol, were tens of thousands
> > celebrated Mr Yanukovich's declared victory.
>
> Inflammatory drivel. Pro Yanukovich doesn't make one automatically
> pro-Moscow.
Correct. And pro-Yushchenko does not mean anti-Russian. On my last
trip to Kyiv where I visited only Russian speaking people, all were
pro-Yushchenko.
Pro-Yanukovich also means pro local mafia. Yushechnko was the one who
ended the stealing of Russian oil by Ukrainian mafia groups.
Yushchenko's support is among Russian nationalists, corrupt union
proles who do vote in the way that their bosses tell them to vote,
mafia types, and the people who support them. About 45% of the
country.
> Perhaps this media drone could call pro Yuschenko people
> as pro-Washington.
Well, Yushchenko stated that he would pull Ukrainian troops out of
Iraq and there are rumors that on Rumsfeld's visit to Kyiv the US
government sold out Yushchenko in exchange for a friendly Iraq policy
from Kuchma's mafia-dominated regime.
> > So far, only Russian parliament speaker Boris Gryzlov has
> > congratulated Mr Yanukovich on the result, condemning the Kiev
> > demonstrations as a farce.
>
> Which they plainly are. Much like the die hard Chavez haters in
> Venezuela who don't have the decency to admit that they are not
> the one and only opinion in the land.
>
> Of course no mention in this micky mouse story about the fraud in
> favour of Yuschenko. Or even a mention of the fact that an Austrian
> doctor who examined Yuschenko's claims of being poisoned was threatened
> by Yuschenko loyalists when he found no evidence for the claim.
That letter by the Austrian doctor was proven to be a fake. As for
fraud - who do you think is in a better position to commit fraud than
the government in charge of the elections?
What do you think of the 96% voter turnout in Yanokovich-controlled
areas? What do you think about the fact that by sheer "coincidence"
Yanukovich got over 95% of the votes in regions under his political
control? You think this was fair?
Yes, Ukraine is divided, but in any fair election it would have gone
52% or so for Yushchenko and 48% for Yanukovich, as suggested by the
exit polls and common sense.
Kirill, you are generally objective. What do your relatives in
Ukraine say about this mess? What region are they from?
regards,
BM
The Black Monk
> >>
> >> Pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich has declared victory over
> >> pro-Western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko in the disputed poll.
> >
> >Interesting how western media declares everything to be either pro-Russian
> >or pro-West. Typical agitprop painting everything in the colours of us
> >and them.
>
> Yushchenko's camp has cried foul about any Russian involvement, but
> remained strangely quiet about foreign funds and expertise used in
> Yushchenko's bid.
Was the level even comparable in terms of funding etc.? And obviously
no Western leader showed up in Kyiv to preside over the military
there.
> Last night's TV shots of Maidan Nezalezhnosti showed the Georgian flag
> prominent among the "Tak!" ones. No coincidence there. This scenario
> has been worked out in advance.
Could it be just a sign for the Ukrainian government of what is to
come? Or do you really suggest that this is all a Georgian plot ; )
> In an aside to my wife, I said that I would be physically ill, if
> Yushchenko were to appear with a rose in his hand, a la Saakashvili.
> Sure enough, he did.
>
> Poor downtrodden Channel 5 was in full agitprop mode last night. No
> matter whom you sport, if you think that state television was
> overwhelmingly slanted towards Yanukovich, you'd have to agree that
> last night was a Channel 5 farce. Two examples:
>
> * a reporter gets in the face of a GAI officer, pointedly asking why
> he was only stopping vehicles selectively (as they always do.) He
> answered quite reasonably, "We can't stop ALL of them!"
> * a reporter and camera film some people who came up from Kharkiv (I
> think) to support Yanukovich. They pick a drunk woman to interview.
> Any chance that some of the people in the cold on the Maidan had had a
> few?
>
> I don't doubt that there was fraud on the Yanukovich side.
Yeah. 96% turnout in his regions, and 96% in favor of him.
> AND on the other side as well.
Could be. But on the scale of Yanukovich's side?
Do you honestly believe that if all fraud were eliminated Yanukovich
would have won fairly, rather than lost by 2-3 percent?
> Yanukovich's camp is now pretty quiet, but the
> Yushchenko camp is in full cry. The former is in a tough position:
> all it seems to me that they can do is try to wait it out. Yushchenko
> et al must be praying for a couple of newsworthy deaths among the
> demonstrators, but as yet Yanukovich has not been obliging them.
Tanks are reportedly on the way.
> >> "Yushchenko president!" protesters chanted. "Shame on the government!"
> >>
> >> "We are launching an organised movement of civil resistance. The
> >> campaign is only just beginning. Don't leave Independence Square until
> >> victory," Mr Yushchenko said to deafening cheers from the crowd.
> >
> >The polls never showed Yuschenko with more than 52% support. Considering
> >that the pollsters were sponsored from abroad this is quite pathetic. If
> >Yuschenko was the clear choice then he would have gotten over 60% in the
> >polls and ballots. As it stands his 47% ballot result is completely in
> >line with his true support.
>
> When did exit polls become such an important and precise instrument?
> They weren't accurate in the last U.S. election, so why should anyone
> place so much faith in them now in Ukraine?
Exit polls were much more pro-Yushchenko than they ever were pro-Bush.
> >> But underlining the polarised state of Ukrainian politics, a
> >> counter-demonstration, flying Russian flags, was staged in the
> >> pro-Moscow Black Sea city of Simferopol, were tens of thousands
> >> celebrated Mr Yanukovich's declared victory.
> >
> >Inflammatory drivel. Pro Yanukovich doesn't make one automatically
> >pro-Moscow. Perhaps this media drone could call pro Yuschenko people
> >as pro-Washington.
>
> The fact that even the DIF-sponsored (i.e. bankrolled) exit polling
> showed over 40% for Yanukovich proves that his support is not coming
> purely from ethnic Russians anyway.
Sure. It also comes from factory workers or kolkhosp workers who vote
as their bosses tell them to, from mafia and their underlings, etc.
BM
SCRMoralCompass
>>
>> TENS of thousands of Ukrainian protesters have taken over Kiev's
>> central square and turned it into a defiant sea of orange flags to
>> denounce the results of a presidential election.
>
> If it was hundreds of thousands or millions then that would be something
> special. Bussing in militants from western Ukrainian regions is lame.
>
...reminds me of the old Milosevich S.O.P. of parking a truck full of rocks
conveniently close to where his demonstrations would be held.