Romania vs. Rumania
tanya
I was wondering why in some books and maps Romania is spelt Rumania. Did
it change to Romania or is it just a difference in translation? Any help
would be apreciated.
vicdor
I'm not sure, but I think that Ceausescu changed it from Rumania to
Romania, becouse he wanted thw world to see that our origin is from
Rome (Roman Empire), and what he actually did, the stupid old man or
maybe his wife, now people think that Romania is the country of the
Romas(Gypsyes).
Again, i'm not sure but at least trying to help.
vicdor
John
>tanya wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering why in some books and maps Romania is spelt Rumania.
Did
>> it change to Romania or is it just a difference in translation? Any
help
>> would be apreciated.
I asked this question too and got a very helpful reply from the eminent
Mr Bossy, as follows:
:Romanians have always spelt Romanian with an "o", since the name is
:derived from the word Romans -- which is universally spelt with an "o".
:Use of the "u" tends to be used by those who deny Romania's Latin
:heritage, or atleast to dismiss it. Consequently, it's taken on some
:very strong negative conotations. It's basically the equivalent of
:pelling America "Amerika". The shift in conotations is quite clear,
:and
:the change in spelling is also ment to be offesnive.
:
:>I have come across pedants in the UK who object to "Romania" and try
:>and insist on "Rumania".
:
:The argument is that the Romanian "o" sounds closer to the western "u"
:than the western "o". (It does.) However, for Americans or
Britishers,
:who have one of the least phonetic languages to insist on this one word
being
:phonetic is abit strange, to say the least. In any case, I've never
:heard of a Romanian who was offended that the name is pronounced with
:a western "o" rather than a Romanian "o", especially when speaking
:English or French.
:
:>The poster to whom you replied was being offensive, but are
:>there other reasons for avoiding the "u" word.
:
:It seems to me that good manner dictate that one calls people by the
:name that they want. There are exceptions, for example when the
:English name is completely different from the local name and deeply
:ingrained (eg., Greece, Germany, China, Egypt). However, I don't
:think that the difference between spelling Romania with an "o" and a
:"u" is sufficient to confuse anyone.
Mr Bossy's reply was following a post by someone looking for trouble and
using "Rumania" deliberately to offend. "Rumania" does tend to be used
particulary on older English maps. The Oxford English Dictionary gives
both as alternatives, but now points users of "Rumania" towards the more
acceptable "Romania".
Vicdor posted the following reply to this newsgroup:
>I'm not sure, but I think that Ceausescu changed it from Rumania to
>Romania, <snip> Again, i'm not sure but at least trying to help.
>vicdor
I think though that he is thinking of the change in spelling from "a^"
to "i^" (Romania/Rominia/Romania). The "i^" apparently emphasising the
Slavonic roots in Romanian and the "a^" the Romance roots. I learnt
this from a friend in Romania with a very large stamp collection. He
was overjoyed when Czechoslovakia split up because it meant he had a
definitive collection of Czechoslovakian stamps - no new issues could
ruin the completeness of his collection.
--
John
Liviu Iordache
In article <Hx$m7GANY...@fenemore.demon.co.uk>,
John <mil...@fenemore.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I asked this question too and got a very helpful reply from the eminent
> Mr Bossy, as follows:
>
> :Romanians have always spelt Romanian with an "o", since the name is
> :derived from the word Romans -- which is universally spelt with an "o".
I'm a big Bossy fan too, but only when he duels on the side of
pro-monarchy issues. When it comes to other history subjects it is
just fun to boss him around. And, yeah, I should add immediately, he
also has a great sense of humor ;-)
Truth is that spelling "Romanian" with "o" was but a conscious effort
that started with the deacon Coresi in the mid 16th century. But
during the Middle Ages our ancestors called themselves "rumi^ni."
First evidence of written Romanian, the 1521 "Letter of Neacsu of
Cimpulung" recorded the name of Wallachia as Tsara Ruma~neasca.
> :Use of the "u" tends to be used by those who deny Romania's Latin
> :heritage, or atleast to dismiss it.
I made once (95/10/02) a search for "Rumania" in a library data base
and discovered 30 recent articles, from various fields, none of them
dealing with politics, published by scholars from many different l
countries, Romania included, that used this English spelling variant.
Regards,
Liviu Iordache
RT765
There are some Huns (Hungarians) and other barbarians who has a complex of
inferiority
(mainly in a historical sense).
These barbarians are trying desperately to show a connection between
Romanians and
Rom ( Gypsy). For example the Hungarians ( Huns) insist that Gypsy should
be called
and spelled in a manner attracting confusion, that is:
Romanies,Romani,Roma,etc.
Whatever spelling approach they take Romanians still remain Romans,
Gypsies remain
Gypsies and Hungarians remain Huns.
We should remained the barbarians that the Gypsies were enslaved in
Romania and sold
abroad to the Huns and others where they intermixed with the native
papulation, creating
a mixed race ( in the case of Hungary, a race of Huno-Gypsies).
In Romania the opposite happened. The Romanians were punished by
enslavement if
marry a Gypsy.
Take a load of this from a Gypsy writer (David Crowe):
"In the long course of the Gypsy experience in Eastern Europe, none has
been worse than that in Romania.Within several centuries after Gypsies
entered the medieval provinces of Wallachia and Moldavia, they began to be
enslaved, a condition that lasted until the mid nineteenth century.
Although slavery was not a condition peculiar to Gypsies or the Balkans at
the time, the deep-seated, dehumanizing prejudice that has characterized
the historic Romanian relationship with Gypsies produced a socioeconomic
caste system that resulted in the "social death" of Gypsies as Romanian
slaves"
Ooo Baby Make my day.
Some countries spell Romania with an "u" and some with an "a".
Whatever the spelling is the Romanians are still descendants of the Romans
not Huns
or other barbarians.
Romanians spelled their name as Rumans for the period of time when
Slavonic was used
as the language of the Church. Rumans being the correct spelling in
Slavonic for Romans.
Latter on when Slavonic was replaced by Latin the Romanians changed the
"u" for "o" which
is very appropriate for a LATIN.
TAKE A LOAD OF SOME GOOD STAFF( For the Huns and other barbarians to
learn):
THE IMPERIAL ROMANS
(WALACHIANS)
Note: In the following article I used Romanians (Vlachs ) = ROMANS. The "
= " sign should be interpreted as: direct descendants of the Romans,
people connected culturaly, racialy to the Romans,
(as it is suggested by the chronicles).
The Romanians were known in the past as:
VALACHUS (By the Catholic West)
FLACI (By catholic West)
IFLAK (By the Turks)
VLASI & VOLOH (By the Slavs)
OLAH &BLACH (By the Hungarians)
OLAHOK (By the Hungarians)
OLASZOK (The Hungarian name for the Italians)
WALACH (By the Germans)
WALSCHER (The German name for the Italians)
BLACHOS & VLACHOS (By the Greeks)
BLOCH (By the Saxons in Transilvania)
WOLOSZY (By the Polish)
WLOCHI (The Polish name for the Italians)
In old German WALH = ROMAN
In Gothic VOLK = ARMED PEOPLE
In old slavonic VLAST = POWER(considered of Gothic origin)
In old slavonic VLAST = GIGANTE/GOD
Romanians always called themselves ROMANS & RUMANS.Their neighbors called
them Vlachs,Vlasi,Olahs,etc.
CHRONICLES DESCRIBING THE ROMANIANS (VALACHIANS):
CONSTANTINE FLAVIUS PORPHYROGENITUS (BYZANTINE EMPEROR 913-959)
From "De administrando imperio".Constantine's surname, PORPHYROGENITUS
(that is, born in the Purple Chamber of the Imperial Palace in
CONSTANTINOPLE).
"The emperor Diocletian was much enamored of the country of Dalmatia, and
he brought folk with their families from ROME and settled them in this
same country of Dalmatia, and they were called ROMANI (VLACHS) from their
having been removed from ROME, and this title attaches to them until this
day..."
"The territory possessed by the ROMANI (VLACHS) used to extend as far as
the river Danube"
(Constantine shows that the ROMANS (Latins, NOT Greek Romans or
Byzantines) or Vlachs are the original Romans.
"The country of the ZACHLUMI was previously possessed by the ROMANS, I
mean, by those ROMANI (VLACHS) whom Diocletian the emperor translated from
ROME"
(Constantine is talking about the Imperial Romans,who are going to be
known under the name of VLACHS).
"These same CROATS arrived to claim the protection of the emperor of the
Romans Heraclius before the SERBS claimed the protection of the same
emperor Heraclius, at that time when the Avars had fought and expelled
from those parts the ROMANI (VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian had
brought from Rome and settled there, and who were therefore called ROMANI
(VLACHS) from their having been translated from ROME to those
countries..."
"The country of Diocleia was also previously possessed by the ROMANI
(VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian translated from ROME"
"And sice what is now Serbia and Pagania and the so-called Kanalites were
under the dominion of the emperor of the Romans, and since these countries
had been made desolate by the AVARS (for they had expelled from those
parts the ROMANI (VLACHS) who now live in Dalmatia and Dyrrachium)"
"The country in which the PAGANI now dwell was also previously possessed
by the ROMANI(VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian translated from ROME and
settled in Dalmatia".
"At that time when the Avars had fought and expelled from those parts the
ROMANI(VLACHS) whom the emperor Diocletian had brought from ROME and
settled there,and who therefore called ROMANI from their having been
translated from ROME to those countries"
SUMMARY: In his description of the Greek Roman Empire,we can definitely
identify two people,the Imperial Romans(VLACHS-those Romans who initiated
the empire),called by Constntine,ROMANI, and the Greek
Romans(BYZANTINES-those Romans who adopted GREEK as the language of the
State and Church).
Giulio Ruggiero, Abbot ( in a report addressed to Pope PIUS 5, 1568).
"..., Sono questi Vallachi per antica origine Italiani, per esser colonia
de Romani, condotta da Flacco, la quale con vocabolo corrotto vogliono
molti che siano detti Vallachi"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS
Pierre Lescalopier, French lowyer (1574).After visiting Romanian
Principalities.
"Tout ce pays ( la Walacchie) et Moldauie et la plus part de Transiluanie
a este peuple des colonies romaines du temps de Traian l'empereur; le
capitaine se nommoit Flaccus qui a donne ce nom nouueau au pays de Flacchi
et par glissement de langue Wlacchie. Ceux du pays se disent vrays
successeurs des Romains et nomment leur parler romanechte c'est a dire
romain; la plus part de leurs parolles sont demies italiennes et demies
latines meslees de grec et de baragouin. Ilz ont en fort grande horreur le
pape et l'Eglise romaine et honorent comme Dieu leurs vaiuodatz"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Giovani Francesco Commendone (1523-1584), Prist. Presents a short
description to Pope Grigore 13, about the origins of the Vlachs.
"Valachia, id est Italia, vocatur veloc enim Italum Sarmathae siscunt, nam
Valochi non modo disciplinae romanae mores et leges ceras hactenus
retinent, sed ipsa quoque latinae linguae vocabula plurima suo idiomate,
quod illiricum est, admiserunt..."
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Antonio Possevino (1533-1611), Episcope. In his mission to Transylvania
writes a report to Pope Grigore 13.
"Principi di Moldavia et Vallachia, poiche sono discesi da ROMANI, dei
quali ancora ritengono il nome, et, come si spera, anco l'amore..."
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Ferrante Capeci (1549-1589), Napolitan Prist.
"E la Transilvania habitata da tre sorti di persone, et tutti hanno lingue
distint. Valachi, I quali sono I piu antichi habitatori e descendono da
italiani e longobardi. Onde hanno lingua simile all'italiana moderna, tal
che fra pochi mesi si potrebbe bene imparar la loro lingua; come essi anco
facilmente imparano l'italiano. Anzi essi si chiamano romaneschi..."
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
POPE CLEMENT 6 (1342-1352).
"Olachi Romani,commorantes in partibus Ungariae,Transilvanis,Ultralpinis
et Sirmus"
(In Hungary,Transilvania,Muntenia and Sirmia live the Roman-Vlachs)
or
"Tam nobilibus quam popularibus Olachis Romanis"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
POPE PIUS II (1458-1464) (Commentarium rerum memorabilium).
"VALACHI lingua utuntur Italica, verum imperfecta, et admodum corrupta;
sunt qui legiones Romanas eo missas olim censeant adversus Dacos, qui eas
terras incolebant; legionibus Flaccum quendam praefuisse, a que Flacci
primum,deinde Valachi, mutatis litteris, sint appellati;quorum posteri (ut
ante relatum est) "
Summary: (The Vlachs are a people of Roman origin, born from an antic
Roman Imperial colony, speaking a language close to Latin or Italian).
Nicolaus Machinensis, episcop of Modrussa ( DALMATIA).
"Inferiora vero quaecumque Ister Boristenesque intercipt usque ad Ponti
ripas Valacchi obtinent,
romani quondam vel exules vel milites, a duce Flacco ita cognominati, nunc
immutatione litterae Vlacchi appellati: quo vocabulo non modo ea gens sed
omnes quoque finitimae nationes hodie Italos nominant. Valacchi originis
suae illud praecipuum prae se ferunt argumentum quod, quamvis Mysorum
lingua quae illyrica est omnes utantur, vernaculo tamen sermone, hoc est
latino haud prorsus obsoleto ab incunabulis loquuntur; et cum ignotis
congressi, dum linguae explorant comertium, an ROMANAE loqui norint
interrogant".
Summary:ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Janus Pannonius.Hungarian Humanist, Poet (1434-1472).
"Sarmatici montes et vos septemplici Istri
Caerulea Euxinio cornua mixta Mari,
Ac tu Romanis olim possessa colonis
Sed iam corrupto, barbara rerra, sono
Quid dominum lentis longe retinetis in armis?"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Alessandro Cortesi. Poet, (1469-1491)
"An procul expusos Nomadas, serasque luentes
Pastores rupto Siculos pro foedere poenas?
Trinacriae Siculos quondam, Schythiaeque colonos,
Fortia magnanimos praebentes colla Valachos,
Qui referunt prisca Roamanam ab origine gentem?"
Summary: (ROMANIANS/VLACHS = ROMANS).
POPE Innocent III (in a latter from 1203).
"Therefore, we, who have been appointed by the will of GOD and
Father,unworthy as we are, as vicars and successors of the Apostolic See,
to prove by the force of facts our fatherly love for the Church of the
Bulgarians and ROMANIANS (VLACHS),who are said to be THE DESCENDENTS OF
THE ROMANS,by their flesh and blood"
POPE Innocent III (in a letter addressed to IONITA, lord of the Bulgarians
and Romanians,from 1203)
"Thus, taking this into account, we have decided since long, through our
envoy or our letters, that we should pay a visit to your lordship, so
that,realizing your faith to the Roman Church,Your Mother, we might then
send to you,WHO SAY THAT YOU ARE A DESCENDENT OF THE NOBLE KIN OF THE
ROMANS...As, he (God the Father) will help you to be a ROMAN in this
wordily life and for your Eternal Salvation by your own striving, the same
as you are BY YOUR DESCENT; and he shall help the people of your country,
which say that they are the ROMANS, blood and flesh".
Enea Silvio Piccolomini, "Cosmography" 1501.
"Transilvania...,it is inhabited by three peoples: the Saxons, the
Szecklers and the ROMANIANS.
The Saxons had come from Saxony,and are strong men,used to the
struggle...The Szecklers are considered the most ancient Hungarians...,The
ROMANIANS are of Italian stock..., A colony of the ROMANS was settled
there (Dacia) to keep a tight rein over Dacians under the leadership of a
certain Flaccus, after whose name the coutry was called Flacohia and its
inhabitants were called VLACHS instead of Flacci. This people speaks now a
ROMAN idiom, although partly changed,and hardly understood by an Italian".
Francesco della Valle,1532,(Secretary of Aloisio Gritti,a natural son to
Doge Andrea Gritti).
"The Romanians(Vlachs) are of Italian stock, and according to them, they
are the descendants of the ANCIENT ROMANS".
The anonymous notary of King Bela, "Gesta Hungarorum".
"For, after king Attila's death,the ROMANS called the soil of Panonia a
graze field as,their herds used to graze in the country of Panonia.And
they were right in calling the Panonian soil the grazing fields of the
ROMANS, as even nowadays, the ROMANIANS(Vlachs) feed their sheep on the
Hungarian estates".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
IOAN KINNAMOS (Imperial secretary under two Byzantine emperors, Manuel I &
Andronic)
"It is said about the Vlachs that they are the old descendents of those
from Italy".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Poggio Bracciolini (1380-1459),"Disceptationes convivales", Florentine
Humanist.
"Apud superiores Sarmatas colonia est ab Traiano ut aiunt derelicta, quae
nunc etiam inter tantam barbariem multa retinet latina vocabula, ab
Italis, qui eo profecti sunt, notata.
Oculum dicunt, digitum, manum,panem,multaque alia quibus apparet ab
Latinis, qui coloni ibidem relicti fuerunt, manasse eamque coloniam fuisse
latino sermoneusam".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Flavio Biondo. Humanist, (1392-1463).
"Et qui e rgione Danubio item adiacent Ripenses Daci, sive
Valachi,originem, quam ad decus prae se ferunt praedicantque ROMANAM,
loquela ostendunt, quos catholice christianos ROMAN quotannis et
Apostolorum limina invisentes, aliquando gavisi sumus ita loquentes
audiri, ut, quae vulgari communique gentis suae more dicunt, rusticam male
grammaticam redoleant latinitatem"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
NICOLAUS MACHINENSIS. Episcop of Dalmatia under Pope Pius II.
"Inferiora vero quaecumque Ister Boristenesque intercipt usque ad Ponti
ripas Valacchi obtinent, romani quondam vel exules vel milites, a duce
Flacco ita cognominati, nunc immutatione litterae Vlacchi appellati: quo
vocabulo non modo ea gens sed omnes quopue fimitimae nationes hodie Italos
nominant".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Janus Pannonicus (1434-1472), The most important Hungarian Humanist.
"Sarmatici montes et vos septemplicis Istri
Caerulea Euxinio cornua mixta Mari,
Ac tu Romanis olim possessa colonis
Sed iam corrupto, barbara terra, sono
Quid domimum lentis longe retinetis in armis?".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Filippo Buonaccorsi Callimaco (1438-1496), Italian Political Annalist.
"Sed utcunque immensus uel infinitus potios, eadem ubuque lingua et
praeter Romanorum coloniam Valachiam gentes omnes eadem primordia
profitentes".
"Fama nouae coloniae aliquamdiu motus Scuthios compescuit.Deinde non solum
propulsantibus, sed egregie etiam inferentibus bellum Romanis datae
acceptaeque sunt utrinque paene innumerabiles clades, cum pleraque a
caesaribus supplementa et auxilia suis mitterentur".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Jan Dlugosz (1415-1480),Polish Chronicler.
"(1359) Stephano Moldaviae Voievodae, apud Valachos mortuo, quorum maiores
et aboriginarii de Italiae Regno pulsi ( genus et natio Volscorum esse
fuisseque creduntur) veteribus Dominis et colonis Ruthenis, primum sudole,
deinde abundante in dies multitudine... ".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Raffaelo Maffei Volterano (1506),Italian Humanist.
"Eo quod Romanos, ut dixi, accepere colonos, pleraque uocabula loquuntur
lingua semijtalica,argumento est nomen Valachiam enim appellant, quod
Valach Italicum lingua ipsorum dicatur".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Marcantonio Coccio (1436- 1506), Italian Historian.
"Valachi italicum genus hominum: horum terram Daci olim tenuerunt: nunc
Teutones, Siculi et Valachi tenent... Valachorum nobilissimi qui
agriculturam et qui pecuariam exercent".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Felix Petancici (1445-1517), Humanist from Ragusa (Dalmatia).
"Haec est provincia Dacia dicta apud veteres, Romanorum colonia(unde eius
aborigines hac etiam nostra tempestate) passim latino utuntur colloquio".
Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.
Joachim Vadian (1484-1551), Swiss Humanist.
"Supra Cataractas Danubius, infra vero Ister dicitur, sunt autem hae
maximae, intre montes Dacorum Straboni, eos hodie Iazigibus et
Transiluanis subiunctos, Walachos nominant, vocabulo Boemis Sarmatisque
uernaculo, quod inde natum uidetur, namque ‘ty Vlasschi' Italos nominant
quos ibi consedisse ex Pannonicis Sarmaticisque Romanorum bellis
constant,cum ne hodie quidem eorum lingua ab Italica multum sit absona".
Summary:ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Stephan Taurinus (1485-1519), Moravian Humanist.
"Valachia vulgo Latinis Vlaccia dicitur, provintia Pannoniae Cisdanubianae
contermina in pontum usque descendens cum Damubo, veteres inferiorem
Moesiam dixere, vide superius loco suo. Inde Vlacci Vlacciae populi, quos
vulgus Valachos appellant".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Johann Boemus (1520), German Humanist.
"Sed ea Thraciae pars quae Gethica olim dicebat, vbi Darius Hidaspis
filius pene perijt, hodie Valachia appellatur, a Flaccis quiritum gente,
Rhomani enim Gethis superatis et deletis Flacci cuiusdam ductu eo Coloniam
miserunt, vnde prumum Flaccia, dein corrupta voce Vallacia dicta".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Sebastian Franck (1499-1543), German Humanist.
"In didem landt (Walachia) haben ettwan das volck Gethe gewonet, die gross
krieg gebraucht haben, zu letst mit den Rhomischen waffen ernider
gerruckt, abgetilckt vnd mit yhrem volck besetzt, vnder dem Rhomischen
hauptmann Flacco, von dem sy Flaccia nachmals vnlang Walachia gnant worden
ist, das diss volcks spraach noch heut her meysttheyl Rhomisch ist, doch
also corrumpiert, daz sy einem Rhomer kaum verstendtlich seind"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Georg Rithaymer (1563), Austrian Humanist.
"Valachi Italicum genus hominum in colonias huc missum, plane in mores
Getarum abierunt, ita nihil antiquae originis suae retinent, praeter
linguam quam barbare et corrupte conant".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Nicolaus Olahus (1493-1568), Romanian (Vlach) Humanist.
"Lingua, ritu, religione eadem Moldavi utuntur, qua Transalpini; vestitu
aliqua saltem ex parte differunt...Sermo eorum et aliorum Valachorum fuit
olim Romanus, vt qui sint coloniae Romanorum: nostra tempestate, maxime ab
eo differt; praeterquam quod multa eorum vocabula, latinis sint
intelligibilia...Valachi, Romanorum coloniae esse traduntur. Eius rei
argumentum est, quod multa habeant communia cum idiomate Romano, cuius
populi pleraque numismata, eo laci reperiuntur; haud dubie, magna
vetustatis imperiique Romani istic indicia".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Theodor Bibliander (1548),Swiss Humanist.
"Post irruptiones Gothorum et Germanicarum gentium et Sclavinorum, atque
lacerationem et ruinam, imperij, sermo provincialis degeneravit longius a
sua origine, ut in provincia Daciae Vualachorum lingua, Vlasky enim Italum
aut Walhen sonat Slavis. Idem accidit in Hispanijs, in Gallia, denique in
ipsa Italia, in Latio, in urbe domina gentium et sede Romanae eloquentiae"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Iacob Heraclid, Despot-Voda, Prince of Moldovia.
"Con voi valenti homeni et gente bellicosa discesi dali valorosi Romani,
quali hano fatto trmer il mondo... Et a questo se faremo cognoscer a tutto
il mondo li veri Romani et discesi da queli et il nome nostro sara
immortale et conergeremo l'imagine di nostri padri".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Stanislaw Orzechowski (1513-1566), Polish Humanist.
"Hi (sc. Daci) erant ex Italis Romanisque proceati, qui Duce Lucio Valerio
Flacco cum Daciam occupavissent, in hisque Regionibus uxores duxissent, ac
consenuissent, hoc Dacos reliquerunt, qui eorum lingua Romini a Romanis,
nostra Walachi, ab Italis appellantur. Wloszy enim Polonis idem est, quod
Itali Latinis".
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
Martin Opitz (1597-1639), The father of modern German literature.
"Doch ewre (der Romer) Sprache bleibt noch hier auff diesen Tag,
Darob man dich gewiss gar billich wundern mag.
Italien hat selbst nicht viel von seinem alten
Ingleichen Spanien vnd Gallia behalten:
Wie wenig diese nun den Romern ehnlich sein,
So nahe sind verwandt Walachisch und Latein"
"Es steckt manchs edles Blut in kleinen Bawrenhutten,
Das noch den alten brauch vnd der Vorfahren sitten
Nicht gantzlich avgelegt. Wie dann jhr Tantz anzeigt,
In dem so wunderbar gebuckt wird und geneigt,
Gesprungen in die hoh, auff art der Capreolen,
Die meine Deutschen sonst auss Franckrich mussen holen,
Bald wird ein Kreiss gemacht, bald wiederumb zutrant,
Bald gehn die Menscher recht, bald auff der lincken hand,
Die Menscher, die noch jtzt fast Romisch muster tragen,
Zwar schlecht, doch witzig sein, viel dencken, wenig sagen"
Summary: ROMANIANS (VLACHS) = ROMANS.
ETC, ETC...
FOR MORE INFORMATION READ ADOLF ARMBRUSTER, "Romanitatea Romanilor"
fredy
RT765 wrote:
> Gypsies and Hungarians remain Huns.
Where did you read that, mr. Cut'n Paste?
Paul M. Gifford
>Truth is that spelling "Romanian" with "o" was but a conscious effort
>that started with the deacon Coresi in the mid 16th century. But
>during the Middle Ages our ancestors called themselves "rumi^ni."
>First evidence of written Romanian, the 1521 "Letter of Neacsu of
>Cimpulung" recorded the name of Wallachia as Tsara Ruma~neasca.
Before 1859, there were probably very few references to "Romania" in
English. The most general usage, prior to 1918, was "Roumania." This
must have been derived from the French "Roumanie." The French probably
got the spelling from current use, which was probably derived from what
Liviu writes about (also----the Byzantines were known as "Rumi" by the
Arabs, a word which derives from "Roman"----so could this 1521 letter
have the same meaning?). After World War I, until about the 1960s, the
general spelling in English became "Rumania." The usage of "Romania"
probably is due to a desire to keep the same spelling as is used in
Romania.
Paul Gifford
fredy
> RT765 wrote:
>
> > Gypsies and Hungarians remain Huns.
Where did you read that, mr. Cut'n Paste?
It is common knowledge that the Huns came from central Asia,
whereas the Gypsies came from India.
Another shining example of quarterdoctness...
Don't write about things you don't know.
You only create pollution and we have enough of that.
MEPHISTO
tanya <Christi...@mindlink.bc.ca> wrote in article
<5fqti1$k...@fountain.mindlink.net>...
> I was wondering why in some books and maps Romania is spelt Rumania. Did
> it change to Romania or is it just a difference in translation? Any help
> would be apreciated.
>
> Why do you sign your name with a lower case t ?
Legend has it that once upon a time French was the lingua franca of the
civilised
world and the French spelled it Roumanie >Later,when French was supplanted
by
English, the two spellings coexisted for a while (old habist die hard) but
now,finally
the accepted version is Romania as consecrated by The New York Times
(goaded
by William Safire ).
Alexander N. Bossy
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:09:18 GMT, lio...@icarus.cc.uic.edu (Liviu
Iordache) wrote:
>In article <Hx$m7GANY...@fenemore.demon.co.uk>,
> John <mil...@fenemore.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I asked this question too and got a very helpful reply from the eminent
>> Mr Bossy, as follows:
>>
>> :Romanians have always spelt Romanian with an "o", since the name is
>> :derived from the word Romans -- which is universally spelt with an "o".
>
>I'm a big Bossy fan too, but only when he duels on the side of
>pro-monarchy issues. When it comes to other history subjects it is
>just fun to boss him around. And, yeah, I should add immediately, he
>also has a great sense of humor ;-)
Hi Liviu:
Thanks for the first and third sentences. I'll ignore the second one,
though.
>Truth is that spelling "Romanian" with "o" was but a conscious effort
>that started with the deacon Coresi in the mid 16th century. But
>during the Middle Ages our ancestors called themselves "rumi^ni."
In Cyrilic. Although I obviously didn't make it clear, I was refering
to the spelling of Romanian in the *Latin* script. I don't think that
it's fair to go back to Cyrilic, since we're tranliterating the word
Roman into Cyrilic and then transliterating the word Romanian out of
it.
>> :Use of the "u" tends to be used by those who deny Romania's Latin
^^^^
>> :heritage, or atleast to dismiss it.
>
>I made once (95/10/02) a search for "Rumania" in a library data base
>and discovered 30 recent articles, from various fields, none of them
>dealing with politics, published by scholars from many different l
>countries, Romania included, that used this English spelling variant.
I used the word "tends" on purpose. I've seen many books, articles,
etc (especially -- but not exclusively -- from the 19th Century and
the first half of the 20th Century) that use the "u" spelling without
any obvious ideological ax to grind. I also said that it tends "to be
used" -- present tense -- because I'm refering to what people are
doing today, not what people did a century or more before my birth.
Alexander
I have edited my return address in order to avoid the
gross excess in junk e-mail infesting the net.
To e-mail me, just remove the word spamfree
from my address.
Dorin M. Petre
On 11 Mar 1997 02:14:45 GMT, "MEPHISTO" <MEPH...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Legend has it that once upon a time French was the lingua franca of the
>civilised world and the French spelled it Roumanie
Interestingly enough, during the later part of the 19th century, the
French also used the name "La Romanie" for the country of Romania,
while referring to its people as "les roumains".
Dorin Petre
BAB STERN
Romanian or Rumanian is a Roman.
But Germnic,Hunic or Gypsy is not.
RT765
WHAT IS YOUR POINT MR.?
Acyclone01
Should read : "What is your point, mister ?"
RT765
Don't tell me.
George Ion
On 26 Mar 1997 22:50:17 GMT, rt...@aol.com (RT765) wrote:
>Don't tell me.
>
Bolsevicul le stie pe toate,
George Ion
G
RT765
You got it right ass holl.
RT765
Bolsevic esti tu mai Putoare ordinara.
Noi suntem Romani Americani de pe timpul cind tu te jucai de'a Comunismul.
Mocane.
RT765
Becouse I am noto a Mongolo.