WAS GURU GOBIND SINGH AN IDIOT
Suminderpal Bedi
I want to ask them first of all if they consider Guru GObind
Singh a part of the Guru Gaddie which was started by Guru Nanak.
If they do why is it that they want to call themselves Sikhs
yet do not have the guts or audacity to follow the teachings
and certain norms laid by our Gurus.
Guru Gobind Singh said
Khalsa meraa roop hai khas
khalsa mee mai karoo niwas
...
He gave a form to Sikh and that was eventually known as
Khalsa. Sikh is not different from Khalsa. Sikh and Khalsa
are differnt names for the same thing. What do you guys think?
Had Guru Gobind Singh Jee gone nuts when he asked his
SIKHS and Khalsa to wear the roop that he had given. If
you guys are ashamed of wearing Turbans and keeping long
hair you are most welcome to come up with another name for
your sects. But let me make it clear that a SIKH is
incomplete without the roop and the deeds. Roop and
deeds together make up a Khalsa or a SIKH.
If you want to question the relevance of the roop then
first quit calling yourselves SIKH. A SIKH is a person
who is attempting to follow the teachings of all our
Gurus and who shows respect for what they have done for
us. You guys out there by questioning Guru Gobind Singh
Jees gift of roop to Khalsa are questioning the very
essence of the Khalsa way of life or let me say th
SIKH way of life.
SIkhi is not a birth right. You have to work for it. If
you are afraid of what the world will say to your appearance
then I am sure you have not reached the level of even
considering SIKHI as a way of life.
Suminderpal Singh
ukko...@cc.memphis.edu
> Khalsa. Sikh is not different from Khalsa. Sikh and Khalsa
> are differnt names for the same thing. What do you guys think?
Several writers on the net have mentioned that Guru Gobind did not
make joining the Khalsa brotherhood mandatory for Sikhs. Of course,
such latitude would be very unacceptable to modern Sikhs who'd rather
sharpen a distinctive Sikh identity. It would be very helpful if knowledgeable
Sikhs could provide any quotes of Guru Gobind Singh on his position on the
enforcement of the Khalsa. That he sung great praises of the Khalsa is
unquestionable. That he had a dictatorial streak is questionable.
Regards,
Shelly
-Gupta,N.K.
Mr. Suminderpal Singh you are very right - Sikhi is not a
birthright and one has to work for it. Given what you say - i.e.,
that those who do not wear turbans and other symbols do not have
right to be called Sikhs but may become a new "sect". It is easy
for a person to be recoginsed by these symbols - so a determination
is easy to make whether he is a Sikh or not But what do you do
about the case where the person ahs the "roop" of the sikh but does
not follow the deeds. Some simple examples are - Sikhs who have
the "roop" of the Sikhs but drink, many also smoke( secretly ) etc. etc.
And there may be other deeds that do not make him a Sikh or a
Khalsa. How do you catch such people, what do you do with
them? How about some deeds which may be controvercial - some Sikhs
approve and others do not ? Who is to decide which of them are
right ? Some examples - in Punjab a few years back some people who
called themselves Sikhs had ordered a dress code for boys, girls
men and women in schools, colleges etc. And this was enforced by
force. Many people who called themselves Sikhs opposed it. So who
was right ? You get my drift...
Neeraj
Jaswinder Singh
Hello everyone,
The other day, I was listening to a tape by Baba Sant Maskeen,
a philospher on religion, in which he was discussing, how religion
evolved in India over the last 3000 years. He took into
consideration, how the mentality of the Indian population because of
oppression over the last 2000 years, has ingrained within their bones,
helplessness, slavery,etc.
After depicting all this, and much more, he stated that at
that time, when despair, oppression was the greatest, did Guru Nanak
Dev Ji come, to awaken and give life, to these people who were chained
(maybe not physically) but mentaly to slavery.
He said, very simply that to be a Sikh is the hardest thing in
the world. Firstly, if taken litterally what Sikh means, it means, a
student, a deciple. Thus to be a Sikh, you must come forward to the
Guru with a humble mind, stating that YOU DON"T KNOW ANYTHING!!! and
would like to learn what he has to offer to us. So the first
prerequistie to be a Sikh is to say I don't know nothing, I am here to
learn from you oh Guru. If you already think you know, what a Sikh
is...then you have already failed the TEST! before starting.
I see to often the ignorance among people here on the net, all
boasting and priding their knowledge, but none, being humble enough to
be a True Sikh, that means to learn, saying I don't know anything, and
I would like to learn the righteous path, as depicted in the Guru
Granth Sahib Ji as well as the Dasam Granth and Bhai Gurdas ji and
Bhai Nand lal ji banis.
.
Those who will do that...will eventually realize that to be a True
Sikh, and as the bani indicates on many occasions that one must live
in accordance to the will of God, and the God himself is in full form,
(long hair), and that Guru ji themselves kept their hair, etc, And
they will also realize that it was the Khalsa form, that Guru Gobind
Singh Ji ordained which freed India from the bonds of slavery, which
awakened in humankind, saintlyness and first class warriors to fight
for the right to worship, since innerpeace cannot come about if their
is no outside peace. Guru Gobind Singh ji in his zafarnama wrote that
I would rather spend my time attuned to the lords, but I am forced to
raise the sword, since obviously, one cannot pray while being oppressed.
A word of advice to everyone. If you really want to know what
a Sikh is, read Bhai Gurdas Ji's bani. People ask where does it state
in the Rahat Names,etc,etc. The most upto date Raihat Nama is of Bhai
Gurdas Ji, for he himself wrote the Guru Granth Sahib as dictated by
Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji. So who else is their in the world to better
understand the Gurbani and translate it for us to easily comprehend.
I've heard many people mock Bhai Gurdas Ji's Bani, but they have no
whims about asking a local ragi, or pathi at the Gurdwara for
clarification. Such stupidness honestly strikes me, that they don't
see the gift and jewel of Bhai Gurdas Jis translations of Gurbani,
which was blessed by Guru Arjan Dev Ji, and think of it as nothing.
So to close, as I always depicted in my posts before, one must
recognize their innerself first. Acknowledge their many
shortcomings. Acknowledge that to be a Sikh, you need to learn from
the Gurbani what it means to be one. And once you have done that,
then their will be no questions raised in your mind, about the
definition of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's formation of Khalsa, as the final
form of Sikhism. As in all religions their is a baptism ceremony...in
Sikhism their is also one, which is kande-de-pahul, thus automatically
making you a Khalsa when you've decided to finally accept Sikhi as
your way of life.
So people stop fighting amongst yourself, if you can help your
own soul first.... if others want to listen fine! but you should not
worry if they don't. After all Guru Ji writes,
"aape beej ape he kavo Nanak hukmi avo jaavo"
You shall reap the fruit of the seed you sow..hence if you sow a seed
of righteous living, the fruit will be one of salvation, otherwise a
evil minded fruit will only bare unhappiness and hell and
reincarnation.
Thats it for now,
Jas.
-Gupta,N.K. (nk...@intgp8.ih.att.com) wrote:
: In article <3la29u$a...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
Suminderpal Bedi
very true that religion is something personal. It is a foundation
for people to evaluate themselves and not use it as a yard stick
to measure other people. Jas has also rightly pointed out that
the defination of Sikhi is being humble. It is very difficult
being a Sikh but this is the least I can do to make my life
meaningful. I am using SIKHI to judge what others are doing.
I am only putting or atleast trying to put things in order.
As a part of society people have to learn to obey they rules
set by the society. Similarly, to become a part of Khalsa
brotherhood or SIKHI, you have to learn to live according to
the rules laid by the Gurus. I am sure that SIKHISM is no
better or worse than any other faiths in the world and people
are more than welcome to go and join them or even form their
own cult but it is a disgrace when people start doing things
that are not a part of SIKHI and yet claim themselves to be
SIKHS.
Examples are like female infanticide and dowry practices. Then
comes moorti pooja and superstition. And not to forget the
rigid caste practices. How can a person claim himself to be
a Guru Kaa LAAl when he is not even attempting to follow
the basic rules.
ANd to answer the question about Sikhs who wear external
GArb of Sikhi and do wrong things, it is upto them to judge themselves
but if they go around telling people like Smoking is allowed
in Sikhi, then this will not be tolrrated becasue they are
preaching wrong info. about Sikhi. I want people to see
and feel what Sikhi is and not manipulate it for their
personal benefits. They are more than welcome to leave Sikhi
if they feel uncomfortable with fundas of Sikhi.
Sikhi is no "maajaak". Neither are other religions. If people
feel that keeping hair is no big deal but the most important
factor is the moral values of SIKH GURUS. Then I have something
to say here. I studied Moral Science as a Kid and many
teachings of various religions are same. So there are many
other choices for people who are ashamed to keep their hair
of wear turban. You can become a HINDU, CHRISTAIN or a MUSLIM.
Suminderpal Singh
Suminderpal Bedi
mistake;
I wanted to say;
I am not using SIKHI to judge what others are doing.
suminder
--
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Suminderpal Bedi
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Several writers on the net have mentioned that Guru Gobind did not
make joining the Khalsa brotherhood mandatory for Sikhs. Of course,
such latitude would be very unacceptable to modern Sikhs who'd rather
sharpen a distinctive Sikh identity. It would be very helpful if knowledgeable
Sikhs could provide any quotes of Guru Gobind Singh on his position on the
enforcement of the Khalsa. That he sung great praises of the Khalsa is
unquestionable. That he had a dictatorial streak is questionable.
Regards,
Shelly
************************************************************************
I do not know when and who gave such a statement but I am sure, and
this is my personal view, that at the time when Guru Gobind Singh
asked for the sacrifice it was obvious that only a true Sikh would
come forward and so did thus the Panj Piaras were baptized
and then later when Guru Gobind Singh himself got baptized by
Panj Piaras.
"waahoo waahoo Gur Gobind Singh
aapee Gur chelaa".
The supreme sacrifice that was expected at that time could have
only come from people who could understand the anguish over
the prevailing misery in that part of the world and it was Sikhs
,who were re-inniteated as Khalsa, who could have given such
a sacrifice. There is no difference between Sikh and a Khalsa
Mr Kochhar. The Gur Gaddi was started by Guru Nanak and culminated
in Guru Garnth Sahib. There are no if's and But's about this.
There was one jot and only one Gur Gaddi. If you question
the relevance of Khalsa then you are indeed questioning the
relevance of SIKHI. SIKH and Khalsa are inseparable entities.
Suminderpal SIngh
Suminderpal Bedi
>
>
> Mr. Suminderpal Singh you are very right - Sikhi is not a
> birthright and one has to work for it. Given what you say - i.e.,
> that those who do not wear turbans and other symbols do not have
> right to be called Sikhs but may become a new "sect". It is easy
> for a person to be recoginsed by these symbols - so a determination
> is easy to make whether he is a Sikh or not But what do you do
> about the case where the person ahs the "roop" of the sikh but does
> not follow the deeds. Some simple examples are - Sikhs who have
A pertinent question and I am sure that your query would
have carried more weightage if those people were justifying
smoking and drinking. If those people were telling everyone
that smoking is not prohibted in SIKHI then that is something
worth examining but at this point the situation is not as such.
We are talking about people who are justifying actions that
are not a part of SIKHI or KHALSA brotherhood.
I am dodging the issue here. It is wrong if I had the roop
and yet I was claiming that SIKHS are allowed to smoke and what
not. I would denounce the person if he such thing but I have
yet to see a person who claims that such things are a part of
SIKHI.
> the "roop" of the Sikhs but drink, many also smoke( secretly ) etc. etc.
> And there may be other deeds that do not make him a Sikh or a
> Khalsa. How do you catch such people, what do you do with
> them? How about some deeds which may be controvercial - some Sikhs
> approve and others do not ? Who is to decide which of them are
> right ? Some examples - in Punjab a few years back some people who
What is right and what is worng is to be decided by khalsa
panth as a whole. I cannot be a judge to the activities of
an individual. It is the panth that makes such decisions.
ANd RAHAIT NAMA has spelled out everything about what is right
and what is not and nothing is debatable.
> called themselves Sikhs had ordered a dress code for boys, girls
Dress code is for women and guys is nonsence. I am not sure
what RAHAIT NAMA has to say about it.
> men and women in schools, colleges etc. And this was enforced by
> force. Many people who called themselves Sikhs opposed it. So who
> was right ? You get my drift...
>
> Neeraj
I hope I have answered the questions.
Suminder