Dilshad Akhtar Shot Dead !!
Gurinder Singh
Famous Punjabi Singer, Dilshad Akhtar, is shot dead by senior punjab
police officer. Dilshad was giving his performance on
police officer's son's marriage when bridegroom's father, a DSP or SSP, shot
him.
News Source: Weekly TV Punjabi Program, Punjab Dee Mehak
Pavit Singh
Jasdeep Singh Suniara
>
>
>Famous Punjabi Singer, Dilshad Akhtar, is shot dead by senior punjab
>police officer. Dilshad was giving his performance on
>police officer's son's marriage when bridegroom's father, a DSP or SSP, shot
>him.
>
>News Source: Weekly TV Punjabi Program, Punjab Dee Mehak
Rajwinder Singh
: Famous Punjabi Singer, Dilshad Akhtar, is shot dead by senior punjab
: police officer. Dilshad was giving his performance on
: police officer's son's marriage when bridegroom's father, a DSP or SSP, shot
: him.
: News Source: Weekly TV Punjabi Program, Punjab Dee Mehak
And the deshbhagats will salute KPSGill because he eliminated
the pakistani intruder!
The police officer sure seems to be a perfect candidate for]
"Rashtrapati's Police Padak"
Kyo(n) deshbhagto?
rs
Sudhakar Patibandla
Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@milhouse) wrote:
:
Rajwinder,
Is KPS Gill the real culprit? I think not. The real culprits are
those people who put him in that position to carry out those unlawful
acts. KPS Gill is just a scapegoat. If KPS GILL had not accepted that
position Delhi masters would have put some other slave in that position.
That's why, I think, blaming KPS GILL for lawlessness in Punjab does
not make much sense.
BTW, who is the current DGP of punjab (KPS Gill retired in the last
week of Dec. 1995)?
Sudhakar
Raju Agarwal
And, on the issue of Deshbhagats, I would expect that all Indians, be they
Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, etc. would endeavor to be desh bhakts. (in the mold of
Gandhiji, Bhagat Singh, Rana Pratap, Vivekananda, etc.)
Patriotism makes a country great, just look at America.
Raju Agarwal
fortress, and shooting at the Army - but this is besides the point. The point
is that you cannot blame an entire people for the actions of a mad man or
deviant. A better example, would you blame all christians for the actions of
David Koresh, or all Sikhs for the actions of those who blew up AI 189
(assuming they did it).
PS. thanks for the offer, I'll get in touch with you soon to set it up.
Rajwinder Singh (ra...@bu.edu) wrote:
: Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) wrote:
: : Isnt that like blaming all sikhs for the actions of Bhindrawale.
: Specifically which actions of Bhindranwale? Facts only, please.
: rs
: p.s. I have had no response to the invitation to help you
: read Gurbani. Are you not interested?
Raju Agarwal
Including your precious Bhindranwale, has the right to occupy it forcifully,
kick out the ruling Akal Takht and turn it into an armed fortress - barring
others from enterring. The Army (comprised mostly of Sikhs, by the way) came
to dislodge him and liberate the Golden Temple from his clutches.
Indira Gandhi's rationale at the time was that no one shoiuld be treated above
thel law, because they are hiding out an a place of worship.
Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@otto) wrote:
: On 5 Feb 1996 23:25:40 GMT, Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) overloaded his brain while lecturing:
: >I was thinking of him turning Harmandir Saheb into his exclusive armed
: >fortress, and shooting at the Army - but this is besides the point. The point
: I did not know that Army was supposed to be in Harimandir Sahib. What
: did the army come to Harimandir sahib for when Bhindranwala shot at them?
: Or did he attack an army cantonment?
: Bearing arms is Sikhs' right -- it is everyone's right. What is wrong with
: arms in Gurdwara? Do you know that the Guru carried guns, swords etc?
: >is that you cannot blame an entire people for the actions of a mad man or
: First you need to establish he was a mad man. Why do you think was he
: a mad man? What did he do? What specifically were the crimes he was
: guilty of?
: regards
: rajwinder singh
: --
: _________________________________________________________________
: Finger ra...@vlsi.bu.edu to get a PostScript version of the
: essay "We Are Not Symbols" about the Five Kakaars. Make sure
: you redirect the finger output to a file-- the essay is 212K.
SHER JAT
>Indira Gandhi's rationale at the time was that no one shoiuld be treated above
>thel law, because they are hiding out an a place of worship.
Indira Gandhi's rationale was that she could win over the hardline
Hindu votes by attacking the Golden Temple.
Your statement above is ridiculous.
Out like three strikes......
.......the Almighty SHER JAT
----------------------------
PAVINDERJIT SINGH ATHWAL
sher...@ix.netcom.com
----------------------------
----TBJs-ORs-SKs-CFs-GHs----
----------------------------
Pav's Top Eight for January 30, 1996....
1) "California Lovin'" -- Tupac & Dr Dre
2) "The One" -- WC & The Maad Circle
3) "Throw Your Hands Up" -- LV f/ Treach
4) "Down Low" -- R Kelly
5) "Nobody Knows" -- the Tony Rich Project
6) "Not Gonna Cry" -- Mary J Blige
7) "Before You Walk Out Of My Life" -- Monica
8) "Sittin' In My Room" -- Brandy
Rajwinder Singh
>As you know, everyone has the right to visit the Golden Temple. No one,
>Including your precious Bhindranwale, has the right to occupy it forcifully,
>kick out the ruling Akal Takht and turn it into an armed fortress - barring
>others from enterring. The Army (comprised mostly of Sikhs, by the way) came
>to dislodge him and liberate the Golden Temple from his clutches.
>thel law, because they are hiding out an a place of worship.
Do you know what you are talking about? Answer this:
1. Who is supposed to "rule" Akal Takhat?
2. What is wrong with keeping arms?
3. How many of the soldiers [out of a total of how many] who attacked
Punjab [not just the Akal Takhat, BTW] and other places were Sikhs?
4. Who did Bhindranwala prevent from visiting the Akal Takhat complex?
5. Why did he collect and carry arms to begin with?
6. What the hell do you know about the violations of laws in India anyway?
7. What SPECIFICALLY were Bhindranwala's crimes? What were the charges
against him, specifically, in Police record or otherwise? [Disregard
the bitch's opinions and rationale, and your own too. Give me data.]
No handwaving, please. Just the facts. I am sure you know of better
places on your own chair where you can stuff your opinions.
There is nothing perosnal in it, Mr. Agrawal, but your views stink of
bigotry to high heavens.
Again, I repeat, only the facts please. If you know any, i.e.
Regards,
Rajwinder Singh.
Raju Agarwal
temple at will while Mr. B. was occupying it? I think not.
In any case - I'm prepared to agree to disagree on this one and let the matter
end there. So let me ask you a theoretical question. Suppose a criminal
occupies a place of worship. Should he be immune from the law of the land?
Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@otto) wrote:
: On 6 Feb 1996 04:53:28 GMT, Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) overloaded his brain while lecturing:
Rajwinder Singh
>I was thinking of him turning Harmandir Saheb into his exclusive armed
>fortress, and shooting at the Army - but this is besides the point. The point
I did not know that Army was supposed to be in Harimandir Sahib. What
did the army come to Harimandir sahib for when Bhindranwala shot at them?
Or did he attack an army cantonment?
Bearing arms is Sikhs' right -- it is everyone's right. What is wrong with
arms in Gurdwara? Do you know that the Guru carried guns, swords etc?
>is that you cannot blame an entire people for the actions of a mad man or
First you need to establish he was a mad man. Why do you think was he
a mad man? What did he do? What specifically were the crimes he was
guilty of?
regards
rajwinder singh
--
Rajwinder Singh
On 6 Feb 1996 23:41:46 GMT, Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) overloaded his brain while lecturing:
>Do you think that Hindus and Sikhs were allowed to enter and leave the Golden
>temple at will while Mr. B. was occupying it? I think not.
Sir, I have repeatedly requested you to keep your opinions with yourself.
It does not matter what you think. Give me facts if you have any.
>In any case - I'm prepared to agree to disagree on this one and let the matter
>end there.
It is not a question of disagreement. Just substantiate what you allege,
or admit having said incorrect, untrue things.
>So let me ask you a theoretical question. Suppose a criminal
>occupies a place of worship. Should he be immune from the law of the land?
As I have repeatedly said, first the crime has to be committed. Only then
can someone be called a criminal. So the question you need to answer
before asking these theoretical questions [whih are nothing more than
the usual deshbhagt strategy to evade responsibility and accountability
for their rantings and biases] are being repeated here. I will definitely
[and that's a promise, as long as I have net access] answer all your
questions, theoretical or otherwise, to the best of my ability and time.
For your convenience, i am repeating the questions I asked you.
***********************************
1. Who is supposed to "rule" Akal Takhat?
2. What is wrong with keeping arms?
3. How many of the soldiers [out of a total of how many] who attacked
Punjab [not just the Akal Takhat, BTW] and other places were Sikhs?
4. Who did Bhindranwala prevent from visiting the Akal Takhat complex?
5. Why did he collect and carry arms to begin with?
6. What do you know about the violations of laws in India anyway?
7. What SPECIFICALLY were Bhindranwala's crimes? What were the charges
against him, specifically, in Police record or otherwise? [Disregard
the bitch's opinions and rationale, and your own too. Give me data.]
**********************************
Kindly address these questions before you ask me anything further.
I am not going to let you get away with your rantings and let you evade
responsibility by playing the game by your rules. It is going to be
a reasoned discussion, not one where the pseudopatriot can hop from
one rant to the next obfuscating the lies he spreads in the process.
So, Mr. Agrawal, kindly answer MY questions first. "I agree to disagree"
is pure bull.
regards,
rajwinder singh [btw, am I your ex GTF?]
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: Gurinder Singh (gu...@bnr.ca) wrote:
: : Famous Punjabi Singer, Dilshad Akhtar, is shot dead by senior punjab
: : police officer. Dilshad was giving his performance on
: : police officer's son's marriage when bridegroom's father, a DSP or SSP, shot
: : him.
: : News Source: Weekly TV Punjabi Program, Punjab Dee Mehak
: And the deshbhagats will salute KPSGill because he eliminated
: the pakistani intruder!
Are we sure he wasn't an intruder and it wasn't a conspiracy of ISI. What
do the news say?
regards,
kulbir singh
S.Singh
>
> I was thinking of him turning Harmandir Saheb into his exclusive armed
> fortress, and shooting at the Army - but this is besides the point. The point
> David Koresh, or all Sikhs for the actions of those who blew up AI 189
> (assuming they did it).
>
> PS. thanks for the offer, I'll get in touch with you soon to set it up.
>
> Rajwinder Singh (ra...@bu.edu) wrote:
> : Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) wrote:
> : : Isnt that like blaming all sikhs for the actions of Bhindrawale.
>
> : Specifically which actions of Bhindranwale? Facts only, please.
>
> : rs
>
> : p.s. I have had no response to the invitation to help you
> : read Gurbani. Are you not interested?
Well well Mr Secular trying telling this to the families of those killed
in the 84 riots. Did the hindus not take reprisals against Sikhs.
Sajjan Kumar f#$% you
Sahdra Harjinder S
References: <4f06bp$b...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca> <rajwi.3115247a-e@milhouse> <4f5h7h$o...@news.bu.edu> <4f5vu1$8...@news.bu.edu> <4f63lk$9...@news.bu.edu>
Distribution: world
Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) wrote:
: deviant. A better example, would you blame all christians for the
actions of
: David Koresh, or all Sikhs for the actions of those who blew up AI 189
: (assuming they did it).
Do you have any proof that Sikhs were behind the AI bombing? A book
called "Soft Target" written by two Globe and Mail journalists points to
the Gov't of India as being behind this incident - why - to discredit Sikhs.
Rajwinder Singh
Who the hell cancelled my post in response to Raju Agrawal?
Cowards.
rs
Pavit Singh
>Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@milhouse) wrote:
>: Gurinder Singh (gu...@bnr.ca) wrote:
>: : Famous Punjabi Singer, Dilshad Akhtar, is shot dead by senior punjab
>: : police officer. Dilshad was giving his performance on
>: : police officer's son's marriage when bridegroom's father, a DSP or SSP, shot
>: : him.
>: : News Source: Weekly TV Punjabi Program, Punjab Dee Mehak
>: And the deshbhagats will salute KPSGill because he eliminated
>: the pakistani intruder!
>Are we sure he wasn't an intruder and it wasn't a conspiracy of ISI. What
>do the news say?
I think Mr. Akhtar was a finger of the Foreign Hand (ie the
Pakistani-Chinese-Western-Human Rights Groups conspiracy) that is
working to undermine India. Maybe he was working to create internal
dissatisfaction amongst the Sikhs. His role in this Grand Conspiracy
remains a mystery.
Obviously his strategy (whatever it was) wasn't working because the
Sikhs have nothing to be dissatisfied about in India. But a patriotic
son still decided to get rid of this trouble maker. :-)
S. Varshney
> 2. What is wrong with keeping arms?
> 5. Why did he collect and carry arms to begin with?
> Again, I repeat, only the facts please. If you know any, i.e.
>
> Regards,
> Rajwinder Singh.
First there is a difference in keeping say a kirpaan or just a rifle or
something like that which is commonly seen in the countrysides in
Punjab/UP.
I'd like to think that there is no religious sanctions for keeping
automatic weapons, rocket launchers, grenades and the like. Moreover, much
like the Black Muslims who turn to Islam and not realizing that Islamic
traders were the ones who made money selling the black slaves to the
Europeans, Sikh extremists were selling their cause by importing arms from
Islamic Pakistan (and still are).
I doubt that if the Sikh Gurus were alive today, they would ever except
arms from "descendants" of Mughal rulers. Therein lies the biggest irony
of all. A "religious war" supposedly brought about by strict adherance to
the Guru's teachings, by collaborating with the biggest enemies of the
then Gurus!
I do know what your response is going to be, that since the Sikhs were
"oppressed" therefore there is religious sanction to keep such arms
against the oppressor.
However, I do not know how one can say that religious freedom is not
present in India for sikhs as of this moment. For example go to Delhi and
watch the kinds of marches Sikhs conduct every week without any hindrance.
Or the businesses that Sikhs run throughout India, the busing, taxi
drivers, dabaahs, small businesses, large businesses.
The popular myth that (besides other issues) Punjab is a breadbasket of
India and hence deserves special attention or treatment is ridiculous.
States have a vested interest in improving their economies. Improving
agricultural methods shall see greater yields from other states. The
"green revolution" was a result of massive aid to Punjab via the US and
other international organizations. Ofcourse the local farmers were
hardworking and honest no doubt about that. However, economically,
Maharashtra and Karnataka and Kerala are the ones to keep an eye out for
in the next few decades.
What's the role of expatriate Sikhs in the USA vs. the role of expatriate
Gujaratis or Keralites? The Gujaratis and Keralites are more interested in
improving their state's econonmy and making money using their expertise
learnt in the USA, whereas a group of extremely rich and influential Sikhs
(atleast the visible ones) in the USA are lobbying greedy senators up for
reelection by donating dollars in the 6 figures.
Other political issues can be solved by discussions I believe. Longowol
was assasinated. Now, anyone who tries to settle out peacefully is named a
traitor a sellout of the "sikh cause" by the local US cable TV programs
that Sikhs air. They don't have a sense for reality and are about a few
years behind in their perceptions. Also, rampant brainwashing is a mark of
that TV cable show that airs in the USA.
-Suvrit
xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu
asdf
Would you mind keeping your posts to relevant newsgroups please? We are
getting a lot of this "noise" because of cross-postings like this one from
you. None of the regular readers of alt.culture.karnataka really care much
for discussions about bhindranwale or the khalsa and if we do we will
definitely come and chat with you on the punjab or khalsa news group. The
idea of having regional newsgroups is to promote discussion about that
region and if you cross post indicriminately like this, you are just being
a very irresponsible person and not furthering the cause of sikhism or the
khalsa by irritating people on other news groups. So would you please keep
this stuff where it belongs?
Thanks a lot!
Rajwinder Singh
(xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu) overloaded his brain while lecturing:
>In article <rajwi.3117829d-e@otto>, rajwi@otto (Rajwinder Singh) wrote:
>> 2. What is wrong with keeping arms?
>> 5. Why did he collect and carry arms to begin with?
Dear Mr. Varshney, I have raised some points in this post, albeit
in a bit harsh language. Kindly address each and every one of them
before adding anyything new. Thanks.
>First there is a difference in keeping say a kirpaan or just a rifle or
>something like that which is commonly seen in the countrysides in
>Punjab/UP.
What is the difference?
>I'd like to think that there is no religious sanctions for keeping
>automatic weapons, rocket launchers, grenades and the like. Moreover, much
There is FULL religious sanction to Sikhs to keep "shastar"s which
means "weapons", and that includes ALL weapons.
>like the Black Muslims who turn to Islam and not realizing that Islamic
>traders were the ones who made money selling the black slaves to the
>Europeans, Sikh extremists were selling their cause by importing arms from
>Islamic Pakistan (and still are).
You are either misinformed, or lying or deluded when you claim the above.
Whatever be the case, you are patently wrong and I suggest you
check out FIRSTHAND what exactly the circumstances and developments
have been in Punjab over the last 15 years. In particular, you should
try meeting some orphans of 1984 carnage [euphemized as 'riots'],
widows of Sikhs eliminated in "encounters", viCtims of rape
and police torture, the lone surviving member of a family killed
by Alam Sena, etc etc etc.
Did you ever try even IMAGINING the sufferings of such people?
>I doubt that if the Sikh Gurus were alive today, they would ever except
>arms from "descendants" of Mughal rulers. Therein lies the biggest irony
>of all. A "religious war" supposedly brought about by strict adherance to
>the Guru's teachings, by collaborating with the biggest enemies of the
>then Gurus!
#1, there is ONLY ONE GURU. There always havs been only one Guru,
and it continues to this day. guru Nanak just took different bodies- and
currently is the umbrella over his Sikhs as Guru Granth Sahib. Anyways
this was a minor clarification.
#2, wars are all religious-- some people just have different religions--
maybe money, power, racism, whatever.
#3 The biggest enemies of the Guru is oppression and zulm, whichever
shape it takes-- Mughal rulers, British colonists, Brahminical elites
or even "Sikh" police officers. There is no special animosity
reserved for Muslims/Mughals. For your info, someone by the last name
of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
In any case, you should go check out the "Zafarnamah" by Guru Gobind
Singh ji. It will remove al your doubts provided you are honest
enough to believe Guru Gobind SIngh's own word.
>I do know what your response is going to be, that since the Sikhs were
>"oppressed" therefore there is religious sanction to keep such arms
>against the oppressor.
There is religious sanction to keep arms, irrespective of ANYTHING.
>However, I do not know how one can say that religious freedom is not
>present in India for sikhs as of this moment. For example go to Delhi and
>watch the kinds of marches Sikhs conduct every week without any hindrance.
>Or the businesses that Sikhs run throughout India, the busing, taxi
>drivers, dabaahs, small businesses, large businesses.
I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
Or, check out the long list of names of THOUSANDS of Sikhs butchered
in 4 days in November 1984. God, how easily can some people
delude themselves.
Or, check out the list of Sikhs tortured in the numerous interrogation
centers all over Punjab.
Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
Mr varshney, I could go on, but it is useless. If these few facts do
not make a difference to you, I doubt anything will. God knows,
I feel bitter and helpless, but I do know not everyone, Sikh or not,
is so coldly ruthless and cruel as you are. [I have that impression
courtesy your views as above].
>The popular myth that (besides other issues) Punjab is a breadbasket of
>India and hence deserves special attention or treatment is ridiculous.
Who claims special rights for this reason? What are the other myths, BTW?
I would love to have an instructive look inside a deshbhagt mind.
>States have a vested interest in improving their economies. Improving
>agricultural methods shall see greater yields from other states. The
>"green revolution" was a result of massive aid to Punjab via the US and
>other international organizations. Ofcourse the local farmers were
>hardworking and honest no doubt about that. However, economically,
>Maharashtra and Karnataka and Kerala are the ones to keep an eye out for
>in the next few decades.
Fuck them. They do not compensate the scores of thousands [not all Sikhs]
who have lost their lives in Punjab in the last 15 years. God knows we
Punjabis did not lose that many of our kin in the whole
100 years of British rule over us. We did not lose even one-tenth
as many. Answer me this, Mr varshney.
>What's the role of expatriate Sikhs in the USA vs. the role of expatriate
>Gujaratis or Keralites? The Gujaratis and Keralites are more interested in
>improving their state's econonmy and making money using their expertise
>learnt in the USA, whereas a group of extremely rich and influential Sikhs
>(atleast the visible ones) in the USA are lobbying greedy senators up for
>reelection by donating dollars in the 6 figures.
Yes, I would like you to elaborate o the role. I really would appreciate
that.
>Other political issues can be solved by discussions I believe. Longowol
>was assasinated. Now, anyone who tries to settle out peacefully is named a
>traitor a sellout of the "sikh cause" by the local US cable TV programs
>that Sikhs air. They don't have a sense for reality and are about a few
>years behind in their perceptions. Also, rampant brainwashing is a mark of
>that TV cable show that airs in the USA.
Thatr is entirely your subjective opinions. Unless being a Sikh
is fundamentally a wrong thing, the Sikhs are as right as you in their
opinions. And tell me, Mr. MahaDeshbigot, how many Sikhs do you have
who agree with ANY of the above pontifications of yours? And,
lest you forget, let me remind you that the issues are related to Sikhs,
not to you, your deshbigot ilk, the Pakistanis, the Arabs, Saddam
Hussein or Robert Mugabe. If anyone should have any say in the
matter, the Sikhs and Punjabis would be the first. Your deshbigot ilk
wouldn't even be at the end of the line of people whose opinions
should matter.
God knows it would make the world a better place if all criminals
[and that includes you by virtue of your crime of justifying crimes]
dropped dead. Anyways, leave my wishful thinking aside. Just address
the points I have made above.
Meanwhile, I will pray for you the next time I say Ardaas, Mr Varshney.
Regards,
Rajwinder Singh
S. Varshney
>On Thu, 08 Feb 1996 10:45:30 -0800, S. Varshney
>(xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu) overloaded his brain while lecturing:
> >automatic weapons, rocket launchers, grenades and the like. Moreover, much
>
> There is FULL religious sanction to Sikhs to keep "shastar"s which
> means "weapons", and that includes ALL weapons.
First, my brain didn't overload, it overloaded once when I was watching
some porno web sites.
There has to be a limit or else soon, individuals could be allowed to
carry nuclear weapons? (should personal size nukes or any small weapon of
that destructive magnitude be developed at all) Perhaps the religious
leaders weren't thinking what Western science would bring about then...
> Did you ever try even IMAGINING the sufferings of such people?
> #3 The biggest enemies of the Guru is oppression and zulm, whichever
> shape it takes-- Mughal rulers, British colonists, Brahminical elites
> or even "Sikh" police officers. There is no special animosity
> reserved for Muslims/Mughals.
I am not ignoring the plight of the murdered people. Countless others die
via oppression and discrimination in India so each deserves special
attention. Part of the problem lies in the way the Indian government is
structured and that the uprising are based on ethnocentrism, nothing more.
I talked about oppression as of this moment, and not a few years back, or
during the "Delhi riots" (or carnage as you might say, but the same term
ie riots was given to the Hindu-Muslim "carnage" where about the number
killed was 100 times greater 1947-48 ie.)
> For your info, someone by the last name
> of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
That forms no basis. I am aware that individual's characters matter more
than groups. Also, I voted 'YES' for soc.religion.sikhism , so what is
your point?
> In any case, you should go check out the "Zafarnamah" by Guru Gobind
> Singh ji. It will remove al your doubts provided you are honest
> enough to believe Guru Gobind SIngh's own word.
What does it say? I haven't read it as much as I haven't studied my own
religion's scriptures. That is to say there is something about religion
that requires it be shelved into the constraints of the homes or personal
space.
> I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
> Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
> doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
>
What does it say?
> Or, check out the long list of names of THOUSANDS of Sikhs butchered
> in 4 days in November 1984. God, how easily can some people
> delude themselves.
Well, I'd like to add that Hindus were also murdered aimlessly, ie
everyone lost in this fight, nobody won.
> Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
> incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
I never claimed that people have not been killed w/o trials or the like.
So you cannot charge that I am "coldly ruthless and cruel."
> Who claims special rights for this reason? What are the other myths, BTW?
> I would love to have an instructive look inside a deshbhagt mind.
That the Punjab has been a free region forever, and that it belongs to the
Sikh people since its "inception." The other more realistic issues are the
transfer of land areas, water sharing but there is no stopping where one
can go back to history and claim a region as their own group's! You could
go back 4-5 centuries and trace the history to emergence of Sikhism, I
could trace the region's history 10 centuries and claim it as Hindu land!
That is to say, religion and politics when merged become quite explosive.
> Fuck them. They do not compensate the scores of thousands [not all Sikhs]
> who have lost their lives in Punjab in the last 15 years.
> Punjabis did not lose that many of our kin in the whole
> 100 years of British rule over us. We did not lose even one-tenth
> as many. Answer me this, Mr varshney.
Every word in the above sentences is debatable.
>
> Yes, I would like you to elaborate o the role. I really would appreciate
> that.
You tell me whether the pro-independence Sikhs in the US are genuinely
helping their own people within India by pouring money into the "US
Congress sinkhole"
Political sophistication is an art that still needs to be mastered by the
Sikh culture, unfortunately. That is also the case with the Indian society
as a whole, especially the state of Tamil Nadu.
> God knows it would make the world a better place if all criminals
> [and that includes you by virtue of your crime of justifying crimes]
> dropped dead. Anyways, leave my wishful thinking aside. Just address
> the points I have made above.
> Meanwhile, I will pray for you the next time I say Ardaas, Mr Varshney.
I never justified any killings in my post, and therefore please do not
jump to any hasty conclusions. I understand why you are doing that though.
You may pray for me as long as they remain good wishes, I wish you the
best also.
-Suvrit
xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu
S. Varshney
>(xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu) overloaded his brain while lecturing:
> >automatic weapons, rocket launchers, grenades and the like. Moreover, much
>
> There is FULL religious sanction to Sikhs to keep "shastar"s which
> means "weapons", and that includes ALL weapons.
First, my brain didn't overload, it overloaded once when I was watching
some porno web sites.
There has to be a limit or else soon, individuals could be allowed to
carry nuclear weapons? (should personal size nukes or any small weapon of
that destructive magnitude be developed at all) Perhaps the religious
leaders weren't thinking what Western science would bring about then...
> Did you ever try even IMAGINING the sufferings of such people?
> #3 The biggest enemies of the Guru is oppression and zulm, whichever
> shape it takes-- Mughal rulers, British colonists, Brahminical elites
> or even "Sikh" police officers. There is no special animosity
> reserved for Muslims/Mughals.
I am not ignoring the plight of the murdered people. Countless others die
via oppression and discrimination in India so each deserves special
attention. Part of the problem lies in the way the Indian government is
structured and that the uprising are based on ethnocentrism, nothing more.
I talked about oppression as of this moment, and not a few years back, or
during the "Delhi riots" (or carnage as you might say, but the same term
ie riots was given to the Hindu-Muslim "carnage" where about the number
killed was 100 times greater 1947-48 ie.)
> For your info, someone by the last name
> of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
That forms no basis. I am aware that individual's characters matter more
than groups. Also, I voted 'YES' for soc.religion.sikhism , so what is
your point?
> In any case, you should go check out the "Zafarnamah" by Guru Gobind
> Singh ji. It will remove al your doubts provided you are honest
> enough to believe Guru Gobind SIngh's own word.
What does it say? I haven't read it as much as I haven't studied my own
religion's scriptures. That is to say there is something about religion
that requires it be shelved into the constraints of the homes or personal
space.
> I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
> Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
> doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
>
What does it say?
> Or, check out the long list of names of THOUSANDS of Sikhs butchered
> in 4 days in November 1984. God, how easily can some people
> delude themselves.
Well, I'd like to add that Hindus were also murdered aimlessly, ie
everyone lost in this fight, nobody won.
> Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
> incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
I never claimed that people have not been killed w/o trials or the like.
So you cannot charge that I am "coldly ruthless and cruel."
> Who claims special rights for this reason? What are the other myths, BTW?
> I would love to have an instructive look inside a deshbhagt mind.
That the Punjab has been a free region forever, and that it belongs to the
Sikh people since its "inception." The other more realistic issues are the
transfer of land areas, water sharing but there is no stopping where one
can go back to history and claim a region as their own group's! You could
go back 4-5 centuries and trace the history to emergence of Sikhism, I
could trace the region's history 10 centuries and claim it as Hindu land!
That is to say, religion and politics when merged become quite explosive.
> Fuck them. They do not compensate the scores of thousands [not all Sikhs]
> who have lost their lives in Punjab in the last 15 years.
> Punjabis did not lose that many of our kin in the whole
> 100 years of British rule over us. We did not lose even one-tenth
> as many. Answer me this, Mr varshney.
Every word in the above sentences is debatable.
>
> Yes, I would like you to elaborate o the role. I really would appreciate
> that.
You tell me whether the pro-independence Sikhs in the US are genuinely
helping their own people within India by pouring money into the "US
Congress sinkhole"
Political sophistication is an art that still needs to be mastered by the
Sikh culture, unfortunately. That is also the case with the Indian society
as a whole, especially the state of Tamil Nadu.
> God knows it would make the world a better place if all criminals
> [and that includes you by virtue of your crime of justifying crimes]
> dropped dead. Anyways, leave my wishful thinking aside. Just address
> the points I have made above.
> Meanwhile, I will pray for you the next time I say Ardaas, Mr Varshney.
Pavit Singh
>I doubt that if the Sikh Gurus were alive today, they would ever except
>arms from "descendants" of Mughal rulers. Therein lies the biggest irony
>of all. A "religious war" supposedly brought about by strict adherance to
>the Guru's teachings, by collaborating with the biggest enemies of the
>then Gurus!
Once again, the Gurus had nothing against Muslims or the Islamic
religion. You are trying to interpret Sikhims as an anti-Islamic
movement which it was not. I wonder why Guru Nanak Dev ji spent a
large portion of his time travelling to the Middle East if Sikhism was
an anti-Islamic movement?
>However, I do not know how one can say that religious freedom is not
>present in India for sikhs as of this moment.
The answer is : Delhi riots, Babri Masjid, etc.
How "secular" is India?
Regards,
P. Singh
Pavit Singh
>What is Golmalkerite interpretation?
I don't know, but there have been many novel attempts on the part of
desbhagats to find the root of this conspiracy. The million $
question is who is behind the Foriegn Hand???? How did the Foriegn
Hand manage to get all the enemies of India together (China, Pakistan,
USA, Arab countries, Amnestry International, Asia Watch etc.) to wage
such war against India? Historians will ponder Mr. Akhtar's role in
East Punjab...maybe it was part of the Pakistani plot to subvert the
Sikhs from their religion and slowly make them Muslims. Mr. Akhtar's
music was so mesmerizing and it could have contained subliminal
messages! For some reason Mr. Akhtar's death coincides with Mr.
Bhagat's arrest and Gill leaving his job. Why? The Akhtar conspiracy
will outdo the JFK assasination as one of histories great mysteries.
(Now that Mr. Akhtar is gone I don't think Punjab will have to worry
about terrorist threats.)
Another job well done desbhagato. :-)
>regards,
>kulbir singh
P. Singh
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: kbh...@sfu.ca (Kulbir Singh Bhatia) wrote:
What is Golmalkerite interpretation?
regards,
kulbir singh
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: Vaaheguroo ji ka Khalsa, Vaaheguroo ji ki fateh.
This is what I wrote and posted about Baba Jarnail Singh a while ago:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to the propaganda of Hindustani media the
personality of Baba Jarnail Singh had become quite
enigmatic by 1983 for many people. Young Sikhs like myself
were quite intrigued by him. On the one hand Hindustani
media fed us spicy stories of Baba Jarnail Singh's murderous
activities and on the other hand many devout suche suche charhdi kala
waale Sikhs depicted a totally different picture of his personality.
A picture of a man with exceptional courage, immense kaumi dard and
unflinching honesty and integrity. The intrigue
factor was further multiplied by rumours allegedly spread by a section
of the Hindu population that Baba Jarnail Singh was an evil lascivious
man who had about 100 women in his captivity to satisfy his men's lust.
The academic curiosity to get a first hand glimpse of the man who had become
a hero for a large section of Sikh population and a villain for Indian
establishment and it's sympathisers took me to one of the informal
sessions of consultations and discusions which Baba Jarnail Singh used to have
with the sangat regularly and this is what I witnessed after a few minutes
of presence there:
Two ordinary young Sikhs with torn up shirts and roughed up hair
with turbans in their hands arrived there. They walked up to Baba
Jarnail Singh and asked him for his blessings.
Baba Jarnail Singh: tuhade kesa(n) nu kee hoyia? tusi dastara(n)
keyo(n) hatth vich pharia(n)?
One Young Sikh: ussi darbar sahib de darshana(n) vaaste aa rahe see.
CRPF walia(n) ne sannu phar liya tte kuttia eh.
Baba jarnail Singh: oh kinne see?
Young Sikh: koyee dass bara(n) honnge
Baba Jarnail Singh: tuhaade piyo ne kiya eh ke oh savva lakh naal
ik larraay ga tte tusi dussa(n) bara(n) to kutt
kha ke mere to(n) ashirvaad laynn aa gayye ho.
jaaow ehna dushta(n) daa osse tara(n) saamna
karo jidda(n) tuhaade bapu ne keha hai.
I have thought about this incident many times. It seems
feudal landlords with massive privileges leave their landless labour, whom
they want to control, exploit and whip at will, with no choice but to rebel.
Inequality and oppression are the fundamental reasons which give rise
to revolutions. Revolutionaries have nothing but their chains to lose.
It is probably for this reason that the first Sikh revolutionary
Guru Nanak Sahib said:
je jeeve patt lathi jaave
sabb haraam jetta kitchh khaay
regards,
kulbir singh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonmy7327
shot dead!]
From: kbh...@sfu.ca (Kulbir Singh Joota)
****** Thanks to the propaganda of Hindustani media the
personality of Baba Jarnail Singh had become quite
enigmatic by 1983 for many people. Young Sikhs like myself
were quite intrigued by him. On the one hand Hindustani
media fed us spicy stories of Baba Jarnail Singh's murderous
activities and on the other hand many devout suche suche charhdi kala
waale Sikhs depicted a totally different picture of his personality.
A picture of a man with exceptional courage, immense kaumi dard and
unflinching honesty and integrity. The intrigue
factor was further multiplied by rumours allegedly spread by a section
of the Hindu population that Baba Jarnail Singh was an evil lascivious
man who had about 100 women in his captivity to satisfy his men's lust.
The academic curiosity to get a first hand glimpse of the man who had
become
a hero for a large section of Sikh population and a villain for Indian
establishment and it's sympathisers took me to one of the informal
sessions of consultations and discusions which Baba Jarnail Singh used to
have******
@@@@ What about the death lists maintained by the illiterate granthi?
Whenever this fiend labelled a person as anti- sikh, this was incitement
for his illiterate followers for death contract on that person in
tradition of Mafia chief. What about the pogrom carried about by this
fiend towards Nirankari Sikhs and their head? Who has given this
illiterate preacher the right to be the religious dictator and the
official censor?
What about the smirks of this imbecile when Hindus, Patriotic Sikhs and
intellectuals were being pulled out of buses and trains and executed?
Vilayati Sharabi sic Fascination with this Mephistocles was responsible
for the self- destructive suicidal death wish of the community @@@@@
****** I have thought about this incident many times. It seems
feudal landlords with massive privileges leave their landless labour, whom
they want to control, exploit and whip at will, with no choice but to
rebel.
Inequality and oppression are the fundamental reasons which give rise
to revolutions. Revolutionaries have nothing but their chains to lose.
It is probably for this reason that the first Sikh revolutionary
Guru Nanak Sahib said:
je jeeve patt lathi jaave
sabb haraam jetta kitchh khaay
regards,
kulbir singh Joota******
@@@ By the way worst form of feudalism in Punjab pre-partition was
practised by Sikh landlords towards Muslim peasantry and the scheduled
caste farmhands in Composite Punjab. This lead to the movement for
Pakistan carried by the resentment of Punjabi Muslims who have long
memories of Sikh Shahi with women violated , mosques defiled and Muslim
peasantry exploited. Sikh landlordism in Punjab was courtesy of landgrants
from opium addict Ranjit Singh and British Huzoor who rewarded Sikhs for
their collobration with British Imperialism
Guru Nanak was not a orginal thinker in Indic tradition. He was preceded
in the same ideas by Buddha, Ramanand and Kabir. He followed the path laid
before him. Can you find some of his ideas different from Kabir? None@@@@@
Vinod Shanker
:]On Thu, 08 Feb 1996 10:45:30 -0800, S. Varshney
:]>In article <rajwi.3117829d-e@otto>, rajwi@otto (Rajwinder Singh) wrote:
:]>I'd like to think that there is no religious sanctions for keeping
:]>automatic weapons, rocket launchers, grenades and the like. Moreover, much
:]There is FULL religious sanction to Sikhs to keep "shastar"s which
:]means "weapons", and that includes ALL weapons.
No ! You did not invent sikhism, and even giving you the benefit of doubt,
your freedom ends at the tip of my nose. I suppose next you would want
nuclear bombs inside the gurudwars as a part of religious freedom. Anyway,
you have nicely given the game away by the above statement. It is very clear
now you are not an average peaceful devout sikh, but just another of the
bandits.
:]>I doubt that if the Sikh Gurus were alive today, they would ever except
:]>arms from "descendants" of Mughal rulers. Therein lies the biggest irony
:]>of all. A "religious war" supposedly brought about by strict adherance to
:]>the Guru's teachings, by collaborating with the biggest enemies of the
:]>then Gurus!
:]reserved for Muslims/Mughals. For your info, someone by the last name
:]of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
That lets the next cat out of the bag. I'm sure this 'mughal' has nothing
to do with pakistan by any chance..
:]There is religious sanction to keep arms, irrespective of ANYTHING.
so YOU say !! and its very clear what your priorities are..
:]Or, check out the list of Sikhs tortured in the numerous interrogation
:]centers all over Punjab.
:]Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
:]incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
Or check out the millions of sikhs who live and prosper in bombay, pune,
bangalore.. (i've lived for a reasonable amount of time only in these
places).
or check out the sikhs who head the nation.., who are often the wealthiest
community anywhere they go, with the exception of perhaps the parsis..
:]Fuck them. They do not compensate the scores of thousands [not all Sikhs]
:]who have lost their lives in Punjab in the last 15 years. God knows we
:]Punjabis did not lose that many of our kin in the whole
:]100 years of British rule over us. We did not lose even one-tenth
:]as many. Answer me this, Mr varshney.
Sorry mister.. its not goung to work. This is an age old ploy.. make
inflammatory remarks posing as a member of some ethnic group.. bait others
to flame back and using those get sympathy from that community..
age old trick used by all politicians.. you have a bright future..
now, makes me wonder.. How do I know you are a sikh for real ? You can't do
better work if you are a paki propagandist...
how much do you get paid for all this anyway ? judging by the volume you
spam in this network.. you can't be doing much else..
Raju Agarwal
You talk about generalizing muslims, but arn't you in fact generalizing all
desh bhakts. Most desh bhakts simply want to make a contribution to their
homeland, as their country men are less fortuanate than they are. Most
harbour no ill will towards Sikhs.
I'm sure you can relate to wanting to help those who are less fortunate as it
formed a central part of Guru Nanak's teachings.
Secondly, do you have any constructive suggestions on what ought to be done in
order to bring together Hindu's and Sikhs once again. Fortunately, the
mastermind of the 'carnage', HKL Bhagat has been charged. Do you think we will
be able to go back to the way things were prior to 1984?
Raju
Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@barney) wrote:
: S. Varshney (xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu) wrote on Sat, 10 Feb 1996 01:15:39 -0800:
: >> There is FULL religious sanction to Sikhs to keep "shastar"s which
: >> means "weapons", and that includes ALL weapons.
: >There has to be a limit or else soon, individuals could be allowed to
: >carry nuclear weapons? (should personal size nukes or any small weapon of
: >that destructive magnitude be developed at all) Perhaps the religious
: >leaders weren't thinking what Western science would bring about then...
: Opinion dismissed. As a Sikh, to me Guru's hukam is meaningful.
: The opinions of self-styled mahatamas like you are something I do not
: give two wet shits about.
: >I am not ignoring the plight of the murdered people. Countless others die
: >via oppression and discrimination in India so each deserves special
: >attention. Part of the problem lies in the way the Indian government is
: >structured and that the uprising are based on ethnocentrism, nothing more.
: What was the Indian struggle for independence from british based on?
: >I talked about oppression as of this moment, and not a few years back, or
: >during the "Delhi riots" (or carnage as you might say, but the same term
: >ie riots was given to the Hindu-Muslim "carnage" where about the number
: >killed was 100 times greater 1947-48 ie.)
: There is one very important point missed here: not a SINGLE person
: was killed by Sikhs in "retaliation." Besides, labeling the 1947
: carnage as riots does not mean 1984 carnage was not a carnage.
: I know I am wasting my time with you but what the heck, it's still
: 45 minutes to go before I turn off the RF.
: >> For your info, someone by the last name
: >> of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
: >That forms no basis. I am aware that individual's characters matter more
: >than groups. Also, I voted 'YES' for soc.religion.sikhism , so what is
: >your point?
: The point that has sailed right over you head is that your gross
: generalization about Mughals is WRONG. THAT is the point. YOUR vote
: for s.r.sikhism is IRRELEVANT. We are discussing your selfrighteous
: generalizations.
: > ...check out Zafarnamah....
: >What does it say? I haven't read it
: Then shut up and refrain from commenting about Sikhs' right to
: keep weapons. I repeat, the next time you want to preach about
: weapons, kindly make sure you do so after you understand Sikhism's
: perspective on them. Thank you.
: > as much as I haven't studied my own
: >religion's scriptures. That is to say there is something about religion
: >that requires it be shelved into the constraints of the homes or personal
: >space.
: Maybe you should refrain from meddling into others' affairs then.
: But I forget that you are a deshbigot [tm].
: >> I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
: >> Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
: >> doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
: >What does it say?
: If you do not know, get informed first and then talk. I have no
: obligation to educate you. Make the effort if you are so bloody
: interested and are such a friggin deshbhagt. I repeat, make the effort
: befor you pontificate.
: >> Or, check out the long list of names of THOUSANDS of Sikhs butchered
: >> in 4 days in November 1984. God, how easily can some people
: >> delude themselves.
: >Well, I'd like to add that Hindus were also murdered aimlessly, ie
: >everyone lost in this fight, nobody won.
: False. You are a barefaced liar. NOT a SINGLE Hindu was killed,
: and there was no "fight". The November 1984 carnage was a well planned
: state sponsored genocide of Sikhs. Now shut up and don't
: say "I was talking about the thousands of Hindus kileld in Punjab."
: because you again need to get informed on that.
: >> Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
: >> incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
: >I never claimed that people have not been killed w/o trials or the like.
: >So you cannot charge that I am "coldly ruthless and cruel."
:
: You are when you preach how great the Sikhs have been treated in India.
: What the fuck are you on to,any way, asshole?
: >That the Punjab has been a free region forever,
: Punjab has always been a free region more than any other part of India.
: It was the last to fall to the british, for excample.
: >and that it belongs to the Sikh people since its "inception."
: Who said that? Punjab belongs to Punjabis.
: >The other more realistic issues are the
: >transfer of land areas, water sharing but there is no stopping where one
: >can go back to history and claim a region as their own group's! You could
: >go back 4-5 centuries and trace the history to emergence of Sikhism, I
: >could trace the region's history 10 centuries and claim it as Hindu land!
: Shut up, moron. You don't know what you are blabbering about. And you
: haven't shown the slightest modicum of intelligence which could encourage
: me to educate you a bit. You are beyond redemption.
: >That is to say, religion and politics when merged become quite explosive.
: Didja know Gandhi always started all his meetings, agitations
: etc with a public prayer? God how easily some people deny some things.
: >> Fuck them. They do not compensate the scores of thousands [not all Sikhs]
: >> who have lost their lives in Punjab in the last 15 years.
: >> Punjabis did not lose that many of our kin in the whole
: >> 100 years of British rule over us. We did not lose even one-tenth
: >> as many. Answer me this, Mr varshney.
: >Every word in the above sentences is debatable.
: Let us debate it, then. Give me your data. No opinions. Just data
: please. Else I will let you roll your bistra and fuck off. It is
: still a good time to bail out of this one, moron.
: >You tell me whether the pro-independence Sikhs in the US are genuinely
: >helping their own people within India by pouring money into the "US
: >Congress sinkhole"
: THAT is another issue altogether. I never even alluded to
: expatriate Sikhs. I was talking about scores of thousands who
: have been killed and jailed just cuz theya re Sikhs. Ansawer me THAT,
: asshole. Do not obfuscate the point.
: >Political sophistication is an art that still needs to be mastered by the
: >Sikh culture, unfortunately. That is also the case with the Indian society
: >as a whole, especially the state of Tamil Nadu.
: You stink to high heavens with your selfrighteous pontifications, idiot.
: Shut up. SHUT THE FUCK up.
: >I never justified any killings in my post, and therefore please do not
: >jump to any hasty conclusions. I understand why you are doing that though.
: >You may pray for me as long as they remain good wishes, I wish you the
: >best also.
: Oh sod off. You are just a deshbhagt annoyance. Get a grip and
: stop worrying about Sikhs. Let Sikhs do what they want to do
: with their lives. YOU just SHUT UP.
: Thank you so much. I have had to be a bit harsh, but all the
: expletives are well-deserved.
: I know the lame arguments you are gonna give, and also the usual
: one you are gonna say: I am stooping into the gutter. Well, that is
: atleast better than havinga fucked up mind. I am so glad I
: am not screwed in the head like you are [all you Varmoids]. I am
: glad I am only foulmouthed.
: Have a nice day, idiot.
: regards
: rajwinder singh.
: --
: _________________________________________________________________
: finger ra...@vlsi.bu.edu to get a uuencoded PostScript version of
Rajwinder Singh
>> means "weapons", and that includes ALL weapons.
>There has to be a limit or else soon, individuals could be allowed to
>carry nuclear weapons? (should personal size nukes or any small weapon of
>that destructive magnitude be developed at all) Perhaps the religious
>leaders weren't thinking what Western science would bring about then...
Opinion dismissed. As a Sikh, to me Guru's hukam is meaningful.
The opinions of self-styled mahatamas like you are something I do not
give two wet shits about.
>I am not ignoring the plight of the murdered people. Countless others die
>via oppression and discrimination in India so each deserves special
>attention. Part of the problem lies in the way the Indian government is
>structured and that the uprising are based on ethnocentrism, nothing more.
What was the Indian struggle for independence from british based on?
>I talked about oppression as of this moment, and not a few years back, or
>during the "Delhi riots" (or carnage as you might say, but the same term
>ie riots was given to the Hindu-Muslim "carnage" where about the number
>killed was 100 times greater 1947-48 ie.)
There is one very important point missed here: not a SINGLE person
was killed by Sikhs in "retaliation." Besides, labeling the 1947
carnage as riots does not mean 1984 carnage was not a carnage.
I know I am wasting my time with you but what the heck, it's still
45 minutes to go before I turn off the RF.
>> For your info, someone by the last name
>> of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
>That forms no basis. I am aware that individual's characters matter more
>than groups. Also, I voted 'YES' for soc.religion.sikhism , so what is
>your point?
The point that has sailed right over you head is that your gross
generalization about Mughals is WRONG. THAT is the point. YOUR vote
for s.r.sikhism is IRRELEVANT. We are discussing your selfrighteous
generalizations.
> ...check out Zafarnamah....
>What does it say? I haven't read it
Then shut up and refrain from commenting about Sikhs' right to
keep weapons. I repeat, the next time you want to preach about
weapons, kindly make sure you do so after you understand Sikhism's
perspective on them. Thank you.
> as much as I haven't studied my own
>religion's scriptures. That is to say there is something about religion
>that requires it be shelved into the constraints of the homes or personal
>space.
Maybe you should refrain from meddling into others' affairs then.
But I forget that you are a deshbigot [tm].
>> I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
>> Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
>> doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
>What does it say?
If you do not know, get informed first and then talk. I have no
obligation to educate you. Make the effort if you are so bloody
interested and are such a friggin deshbhagt. I repeat, make the effort
befor you pontificate.
>> Or, check out the long list of names of THOUSANDS of Sikhs butchered
>> in 4 days in November 1984. God, how easily can some people
>> delude themselves.
>Well, I'd like to add that Hindus were also murdered aimlessly, ie
>everyone lost in this fight, nobody won.
False. You are a barefaced liar. NOT a SINGLE Hindu was killed,
and there was no "fight". The November 1984 carnage was a well planned
state sponsored genocide of Sikhs. Now shut up and don't
say "I was talking about the thousands of Hindus kileld in Punjab."
because you again need to get informed on that.
>> Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
>> incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
>I never claimed that people have not been killed w/o trials or the like.
>So you cannot charge that I am "coldly ruthless and cruel."
You are when you preach how great the Sikhs have been treated in India.
What the fuck are you on to,any way, asshole?
>That the Punjab has been a free region forever,
Punjab has always been a free region more than any other part of India.
It was the last to fall to the british, for excample.
>and that it belongs to the Sikh people since its "inception."
Who said that? Punjab belongs to Punjabis.
>The other more realistic issues are the
>transfer of land areas, water sharing but there is no stopping where one
>can go back to history and claim a region as their own group's! You could
>go back 4-5 centuries and trace the history to emergence of Sikhism, I
>could trace the region's history 10 centuries and claim it as Hindu land!
Shut up, moron. You don't know what you are blabbering about. And you
haven't shown the slightest modicum of intelligence which could encourage
me to educate you a bit. You are beyond redemption.
>That is to say, religion and politics when merged become quite explosive.
Didja know Gandhi always started all his meetings, agitations
etc with a public prayer? God how easily some people deny some things.
>> Fuck them. They do not compensate the scores of thousands [not all Sikhs]
>> who have lost their lives in Punjab in the last 15 years.
>> Punjabis did not lose that many of our kin in the whole
>> 100 years of British rule over us. We did not lose even one-tenth
>> as many. Answer me this, Mr varshney.
>Every word in the above sentences is debatable.
Let us debate it, then. Give me your data. No opinions. Just data
please. Else I will let you roll your bistra and fuck off. It is
still a good time to bail out of this one, moron.
>You tell me whether the pro-independence Sikhs in the US are genuinely
>helping their own people within India by pouring money into the "US
>Congress sinkhole"
THAT is another issue altogether. I never even alluded to
expatriate Sikhs. I was talking about scores of thousands who
have been killed and jailed just cuz theya re Sikhs. Ansawer me THAT,
asshole. Do not obfuscate the point.
>Political sophistication is an art that still needs to be mastered by the
>Sikh culture, unfortunately. That is also the case with the Indian society
>as a whole, especially the state of Tamil Nadu.
You stink to high heavens with your selfrighteous pontifications, idiot.
Shut up. SHUT THE FUCK up.
>I never justified any killings in my post, and therefore please do not
>jump to any hasty conclusions. I understand why you are doing that though.
>You may pray for me as long as they remain good wishes, I wish you the
>best also.
Oh sod off. You are just a deshbhagt annoyance. Get a grip and
stop worrying about Sikhs. Let Sikhs do what they want to do
with their lives. YOU just SHUT UP.
Thank you so much. I have had to be a bit harsh, but all the
expletives are well-deserved.
I know the lame arguments you are gonna give, and also the usual
one you are gonna say: I am stooping into the gutter. Well, that is
atleast better than havinga fucked up mind. I am so glad I
am not screwed in the head like you are [all you Varmoids]. I am
glad I am only foulmouthed.
Have a nice day, idiot.
regards
rajwinder singh.
--
_________________________________________________________________
finger ra...@vlsi.bu.edu to get a uuencoded PostScript version of
Pavit Singh
>> Did you ever try even IMAGINING the sufferings of such people?
>> #3 The biggest enemies of the Guru is oppression and zulm, whichever
>> shape it takes-- Mughal rulers, British colonists, Brahminical elites
>> or even "Sikh" police officers. There is no special animosity
>> reserved for Muslims/Mughals.
>I am not ignoring the plight of the murdered people. Countless others die
>via oppression and discrimination in India so each deserves special
>attention.
Agreed.
>Part of the problem lies in the way the Indian government is
>structured and that the uprising are based on ethnocentrism, nothing more.
If persons X and Y are both subjected to harassment, but only person Y
reacts to the harasment in an assertive manner, would you consider
person Y to be unusually aggressive or wrongful?
>I talked about oppression as of this moment, and not a few years back, or
>during the "Delhi riots" (or carnage as you might say, but the same term
>ie riots was given to the Hindu-Muslim "carnage" where about the number
>killed was 100 times greater 1947-48 ie.)
The difference is that during Partition, the level of killing and
maltreatment was matched by the opposing sides. During the "delhi
riots" the slaughter was one way. A look at statistics showing the
number killed and property lost, will show the Sikh community to be
the victims following IG's death, but in 1947, the amount of damage
was nearly equal on both sides.
>> For your info, someone by the last name
>> of Mughal was very helpful in getting the Sikhism newsgroup created.
>That forms no basis. I am aware that individual's characters matter more
>than groups. Also, I voted 'YES' for soc.religion.sikhism , so what is
>your point?
That the animosity between Sikhs and Muslims has been exaggerated to a
ridiculous degree and that all Muslims are not gun-waving bigots
(contrary to popular belief.)
>Well, I'd like to add that Hindus were also murdered aimlessly, ie
>everyone lost in this fight, nobody won.
Killers on BOTH sides should be broght to justice and victims on BOTH
sides should be given compensation and our sympathy.
P. Singh
Pavit Singh
>Rajwinder,
>You talk about generalizing muslims, but arn't you in fact generalizing all
>desh bhakts. Most desh bhakts simply want to make a contribution to their
>homeland, as their country men are less fortuanate than they are. Most
>harbour no ill will towards Sikhs.
The term desbhagat here on the net is used in a sarcastic manner,
often alluding to those who say things like
"nuke pakistan"
"Sikhs deserve the danda"
"India is fair to all"
These people probably hurt India more than they help.
>Secondly, do you have any constructive suggestions on what ought to be done in>order to bring together Hindu's and Sikhs once again. Fortunately, the
>mastermind of the 'carnage', HKL Bhagat has been charged. Do you think we will
>be able to go back to the way things were prior to 1984?
I would love for things to go back to pre-1984 conditions. The
Hindu-Sikh animosity has been most unfortunate, but once mistrust
develops between two communities it is very difficult to return to the
original level of trust. Lets hope that cool heads prevail on both
sides.
P. Singh
Pavit Singh
>> I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
>> Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
>> doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
>>
>What does it say?
In baatcheet it has stated
*all amritdharis (roughly "baptized") Sikhs are potential terrorists
*Guru Gobind Singh was the starter of Sikh militancy (and consequently
the first terrorist)
Such a generalization about amritdharis has lead to their singling out
for harasment in Punjab. Various human rights org. have mentioned
that amritdharis are special targets of the Punjab police. Such a
policy is detrimental to India's secularism & unity , and only serves
to create resentment.
P. Singh
Vinod Shanker
:]Rajwinder,
:]You talk about generalizing muslims, but arn't you in fact generalizing all
:]desh bhakts. Most desh bhakts simply want to make a contribution to their
:]homeland, as their country men are less fortuanate than they are. Most
:]harbour no ill will towards Sikhs.
:]I'm sure you can relate to wanting to help those who are less fortunate as it
:]formed a central part of Guru Nanak's teachings.
This guy is just out to get some attention.. the only way he knows how to do
it is to blindly spew hate... and he is succeeding. He could care less about
Punjab or Sikhs. They are just convenient means. You have a couple of people
like this in every community.. though this one beats most you get to see in
Internet.
Rajwinder Singh
[typical deshbhagt-esque junk]
Aha. Our Deshbhagat Mahabigot Vinod Idiot Twitshankar is back.
Welcome back, Vinod. Your name is Vinod, but you are completely
clueless and ignorant. That, or you are a bareaced liar criminal.
Ignoring your obfuscative opinioated junk, I will ask you some
simple questions:
1. Have you read Gurbani? [You gotta do that before commenting on
Sikh principle.
2. What, for example, was Bhindranwale's crime? Facts only, please.
It is interesting that not a SINGLE deshbigot has EVER addressed
this. Rumors continue.
These two questions should keep you busy for a while, and perhaps
[I certainly HOPE] help you get out of your idiotic delusions.
Please get back to me with answers. Again, only facts. No opinions.
Reagrds,
rs
--
Nikhil Patel
: Vinod Shanker (vin...@india.hp.com) wrote on 12 Feb 1996 08:31:06 GMT:
Rajwinder Singh
>Subject: Re: What was Bhindranwala's crime, Raju? [was: Dilshad Akhtar
>shot dead!]
>From: kbh...@sfu.ca (Kulbir Singh Joota)
>@@@@ What about the death lists maintained by the illiterate granthi?
>Whenever this fiend labelled a person as anti- sikh, this was incitement
>for his illiterate followers for death contract on that person in
>tradition of Mafia chief. What about the pogrom carried about by this
>fiend towards Nirankari Sikhs and their head? Who has given this
>illiterate preacher the right to be the religious dictator and the
>official censor?
>What about the smirks of this imbecile when Hindus, Patriotic Sikhs and
>intellectuals were being pulled out of buses and trains and executed?
> Vilayati Sharabi sic Fascination with this Mephistocles was responsible
>for the self- destructive suicidal death wish of the community @@@@@
First of all what is your defination of illiterate? Based upon
your farts I can proudly inform you that 70 % of INDIA is illitrate.
SO was your Sriram, Krishna running after GOpis and the
list is countless for ignoramus, self-indulgent pseudointellectual
like yourself.
About Nirankari Sikhs. You might want to ask Congress as to
why they were allowed to carry out their program outside
Golden Temple even though there was every indication that
this might lead to garbar.
And ask Nirankaris as to who was responsible for the shooting
on the same day?
As usual only looking at one side of the coin. Very typical of
a desh bigot.
I wonder how many patriotic SIKHS were pulled out of Buses
and killed? Would you like to site some incidents? I am sure
your GOI will provide you with enough evidence.
I wonder who was responsible for the killing of innocent
hindus? Should we only indulge in figer pointing or actually\present some
proofs.
But, BTW, you deshbigots are only good at accusing, I i remeber
correctly.
>****** I have thought about this incident many times. It seems
>feudal landlords with massive privileges leave their landless labour, whom
>they want to control, exploit and whip at will, with no choice but to
>rebel.
>Inequality and oppression are the fundamental reasons which give rise
>to revolutions. Revolutionaries have nothing but their chains to lose.
>It is probably for this reason that the first Sikh revolutionary
>Guru Nanak Sahib said:
>je jeeve patt lathi jaave
> sabb haraam jetta kitchh khaay
>regards,
>kulbir singh Joota******
>@@@ By the way worst form of feudalism in Punjab pre-partition was
>practised by Sikh landlords towards Muslim peasantry and the scheduled
>caste farmhands in Composite Punjab. This lead to the movement for
>Pakistan carried by the resentment of Punjabi Muslims who have long
>memories of Sikh Shahi with women violated , mosques defiled and Muslim
>peasantry exploited. Sikh landlordism in Punjab was courtesy of landgrants
>from opium addict Ranjit Singh and British Huzoor who rewarded Sikhs for
>their collobration with British Imperialism
>Guru Nanak was not a orginal thinker in Indic tradition. He was preceded
>in the same ideas by Buddha, Ramanand and Kabir. He followed the path laid
>before him. Can you find some of his ideas different from Kabir? None@@@@@
Feudalism has been prevalent in India in form or the other
for centuries. The bigotry that Brahmans perpetuated aginst
lower castes when it came to sharing common wells is still
present. But, alas, the desh bigots can only present cases
which serve their bigoted point of views.
Yes, wrong things have happened and no one is denying them.
Hindus did wrong things when they were in power and they
still continue to indulge in such wrong activities. If I may
be allowed to generalize as my friend anon and Shelly and raju
have been doing then Hindus are responsible for demolishing
Babri Masjid, Killing of innocent Muslims, 1984 pogrom
against SIKHs, the caste discrimination and the list is endless.
On the other hand Mulsims did their fare share of crime when the
Mughals were in power. So did SIKHS. But where are we heading
to by discussing these issues?
Maybe my anon freind, my worthy opponent like bigoted Shelly
Kochar, Rajiv varma would like to inform me.
I guess these are tactics to keep the real issues at bay.
Suminderpal Singh
**Disclaimer**
I am posting from Rajwinder's account.
--
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: Vinod Shanker (vin...@india.hp.com) wrote on 12 Feb 1996 08:31:06 GMT:
:
: [typical deshbhagt-esque junk]
: Aha. Our Deshbhagat Mahabigot Vinod Idiot Twitshankar is back.
: Welcome back, Vinod. Your name is Vinod, but you are completely
: clueless and ignorant. That, or you are a bareaced liar criminal.
: Ignoring your obfuscative opinioated junk, I will ask you some
: simple questions:
: 1. Have you read Gurbani? [You gotta do that before commenting on
: Sikh principle.
RSS members don't read Gurbani. They only comment on Gurbani.
regards,
kulbir singh
: These two questions should keep you busy for a while, and perhaps
: Reagrds,
: --
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: xsvar...@ccvax.fullerton.edu (S. Varshney) wrote:
: >> I suggest you check out the AUtumn issues of the Indian Army
: >> Newsletter "Baatcheet" firsthand. It should remove any and all
: >> doubts, provided you are willing to accept facts as facts.
: >>
: >What does it say?
: In baatcheet it has stated
: *all amritdharis (roughly "baptized") Sikhs are potential terrorists
: *Guru Gobind Singh was the starter of Sikh militancy (and consequently
: the first terrorist)
: Such a generalization about amritdharis has lead to their singling out
: for harasment in Punjab.
Amritdharis and also people who wear orange colour Dastaar.
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: >> Did you ever try even IMAGINING the sufferings of such people?
: >> #3 The biggest enemies of the Guru is oppression and zulm, whichever
: >> shape it takes-- Mughal rulers, British colonists, Brahminical elites
: >> or even "Sikh" police officers. There is no special animosity
: >> reserved for Muslims/Mughals.
: >I am not ignoring the plight of the murdered people. Countless others die
: >via oppression and discrimination in India so each deserves special
: >attention.
: Agreed.
: >Part of the problem lies in the way the Indian government is
: >structured and that the uprising are based on ethnocentrism, nothing more.
: If persons X and Y are both subjected to harassment, but only person Y
: reacts to the harasment in an assertive manner, would you consider
: person Y to be unusually aggressive or wrongful?
In the Brahmanical Social order no body should resent harassment.
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: >I doubt that if the Sikh Gurus were alive today, they would ever except
: >arms from "descendants" of Mughal rulers. Therein lies the biggest irony
: >of all. A "religious war" supposedly brought about by strict adherance to
: >the Guru's teachings, by collaborating with the biggest enemies of the
: >then Gurus!
: Once again, the Gurus had nothing against Muslims or the Islamic
: religion. You are trying to interpret Sikhims as an anti-Islamic
: movement which it was not. I wonder why Guru Nanak Dev ji spent a
: large portion of his time travelling to the Middle East if Sikhism was
: an anti-Islamic movement?
: >However, I do not know how one can say that religious freedom is not
: >present in India for sikhs as of this moment.
: The answer is : Delhi riots, Babri Masjid, etc.
: How "secular" is India?
As secular as Baander Sena.
regards,
kulbir singh
: Regards,
: P. Singh
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: ian.gujarati,soc.culture.bengali,soc.culture.indian.delhi,alt.culture.kerala,alt.culture.us.asian-indian:
: References: <4f06bp$b...@bmerhc5e.bnr.ca> <rajwi.3115247a-e@milhouse> <4f5h7h$o...@news.bu.edu> <4f5vu1$8...@news.bu.edu> <4f63lk$9...@news.bu.edu>
: Distribution: world
: Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) wrote:
: : deviant. A better example, would you blame all christians for the
: actions of
: : David Koresh, or all Sikhs for the actions of those who blew up AI 189
: : (assuming they did it).
: Do you have any proof that Sikhs were behind the AI bombing? A book
: called "Soft Target" written by two Globe and Mail journalists points to
: the Gov't of India as being behind this incident - why - to discredit Sikhs.
Because GOI wants to perpetuate slavery of Sikhs.
regards,
kulbir singh
Kulbir Singh Bhatia
: raga...@bu.edu (Raju Agarwal) wrote:
: >Indira Gandhi's rationale at the time was that no one shoiuld be treated above
: >thel law, because they are hiding out an a place of worship.
: Indira Gandhi's rationale was that she could win over the hardline
: Hindu votes by attacking the Golden Temple.
Even before she attacked the Golden Temple Hindu Right Wing considered her
Durga Mata. She just wanted demonstrate the majestic power
of people who had lived in slavery for last one thousand years.
What could be a better way than to try to crush a minority of 2% ?
regards,
kulbir singh
: Out like three strikes......
: .......the Almighty SHER JAT
: ----------------------------
: PAVINDERJIT SINGH ATHWAL
: sher...@ix.netcom.com
: ----------------------------
: ----TBJs-ORs-SKs-CFs-GHs----
: ----------------------------
: Pav's Top Eight for January 30, 1996....
: 1) "California Lovin'" -- Tupac & Dr Dre
: 2) "The One" -- WC & The Maad Circle
: 3) "Throw Your Hands Up" -- LV f/ Treach
: 4) "Down Low" -- R Kelly
: 5) "Nobody Knows" -- the Tony Rich Project
: 6) "Not Gonna Cry" -- Mary J Blige
: 7) "Before You Walk Out Of My Life" -- Monica
: 8) "Sittin' In My Room" -- Brandy
Rajwinder Singh
Just a few points that our Mahadeshbhagt Mister Varshney
hasn't bothered to address, are being repeated.
regards
rs
Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@barney) wrote on 13 Feb 96 01:55:43 GMT:
>> ...check out Zafarnamah....
>regards
>rajwinder singh.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| Rajwinder Singh <ra...@bu.edu> | Arguing with an engineer is like |
| Professor of Psychoceramics | mud-wrestling with a pig. After a |
| Boston University (<:-)= | while you realize the pig likes it. |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| o o o o o o __o __o__ _ o __| \ /
`-( <|\ )=' `-) '-( '-) _`\<,_ | /\ __\o \o |
/< /< /< /< < \ /< (*)/ (*) / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\
_____________________________________________________________________________
A baby is an alimentary canal with a loud voice at one end and no
responsibility at the other.
--
Raju Agarwal
the Golden Temple a magnificent example of Hindu architecture. Seems unlikely
that Hindus would want to antaganize a group who they percieve to be also
Hindus.
Moreover, did they just wake up one morning with the idea to persecute Sikhs?
How come there is no past record of Hindu Sikh problems. Your logic just
doestn add up.
Kulbir Singh Bhatia (kbh...@sfu.ca) wrote:
Rajwinder Singh
>The same so called right wing also considers Sikhs to be a sect of Hindus, and
>the Golden Temple a magnificent example of Hindu architecture. Seems unlikely
>that Hindus would want to antaganize a group who they percieve to be also
>Hindus.
What a load of claptrap. The denial of distinctness of the
Divine Truth revealed in Sikhism and a unique Sikh identity
is hardly anything like a compliment to any self respecting
Sikh. Of course the jansanghi-ass licker "Sikhs" only would
accept such trash as anything even remotely meaningful.
It is funny to see that all this junk comes from bigots
who themeselves DO NOT believe in Sikhism, and are not
even remotely related to anything in Sikhism or Sikh history.
>Moreover, did they just wake up one morning with the idea to persecute Sikhs?
>How come there is no past record of Hindu Sikh problems. Your logic just
>doestn add up.
Go read some as yet unsanitized and uncorrupted history, twit. The
persecution of Sikhs at the hands of Hindu bigots is as old
as Sikhism itself.
But, being a deshbigot selfrighteous armchair philosopher, you
will of course continue your pontifications instead of
hauling your butt across Cummington Street and getting informed
by reading some Gurbani and Sikh history in my office. I have made
that offer to you repeatedly, on the net and off the net.
Oh well...
By the way, so far you have not been able to cite a SINGLE
iota of credible material showing Bhindranwala committed any
crime.
rs
--
WhoDuNNiT?
Rajwinder (whoever that is) wrote..
> Aha. Our Deshbhagat Mahabigot Vinod Idiot Twitshankar is back.
How typical of a frustrated fanatic... that's the only thing you know how
to do well eh ? foul mouth others ? good for punjab you are out of there.
So you consider 'deshbhakt' an insult eh ? Even Judas wasn't so blatant about
his intentions. Even if you did get khalistan, you'd sell them all for a few
silver coins, or may be a professorship in a US uty. The sikhs of india are more
intelligent than you give them credit for mister, after the bad time they had
at your hands, they've learned to keep well away from the likes of you..
You can't fool them again as the master con-man bhindran once did.
> Welcome back, Vinod. Your name is Vinod, but you are completely
> clueless and ignorant. That, or you are a bareaced liar criminal.
I was having an identity crisis. Thanks for helping me out of it.
> Ignoring your obfuscative opinioated junk, I will ask you some
> simple questions:
Are you so blind you can't see how silly you look passing opinions about
others passing opinions, in your opinion ? *grin* figure that out, take your
time.. or write to me if you can't...
> 1. Have you read Gurbani? [You gotta do that before commenting on
> Sikh principle.
No. But NO, repeat _NO_ religion sanctions amassing weapons of mass destruction.
It is just your fanciful interpretation to suit your subversive intentions.
Period!. One dosen't need to be a scholar to see through your words. Hatred
and venom and greed and cruelty and selfishness and blind prejudice oozes out
of every letter you type. This can't be due to sikhism, the sikhs I know are
delightful, cheery, gentle people. Your problem is something else, I won't
blame it on the Gurbani.
To reply in your style, read geeta, the vedas, mahabharat, ramayana, quran,
bible and indian constitution and the UN charter completely before you open
your mouth again. Unless you can show proof you have done that, you should not
say another word. Now, if you would follow your own advise, _that_ should keep
you quiet for sometime..
> 2. What, for example, was Bhindranwale's crime? Facts only, please.
> It is interesting that not a SINGLE deshbigot has EVER addressed
> this. Rumors continue.
He KILLED people, INNOCENT people. He wanted to SPLIT up this country. For you
these may be mere games. For deshbhakts, it is the biggest crime anyone can
commit. He deserved to die. A pity he could not be captured and hung in public.
The sikhs of punjab would have cheered the loudest. Do you have any idea how
ashamed most sikhs in india are that someone like that snake was born in their
community ? Even now their heads bow with shame, and people like YOU are the
reason. YOU are their biggest enemy, and all indians will do their best to
protect our sikh brothers from this cancer that threatens their homeland.
Mister, you are not the only sikh in the world. You are not representative of
anyone except yourself. I have many sikh friends who are very happy here and
prospering like the rest of us peaceful people. You are nothing but a homeless
orphan, who knows nothing but how to spew haterd and venom in his neighbourhood.
> These two questions should keep you busy for a while, and perhaps
> [I certainly HOPE] help you get out of your idiotic delusions.
These were so easy. Is this the best you can do ?
> Please get back to me with answers. Again, only facts. No opinions.
Really ? when you go around distributing your opinions high and low ? What do
you mean by facts ? anything that suits your purpose ? get real man. This
world has no time for you, nor do india or punjab. You are stuck in
time about 20 years back. We have all gone ahead. Soon people will not even
understand what you are talking about, even punjabis..., not that many do
now.
> Reagrds,
Right! After calling me all those names, what thick skin you have...
> rs
Do you really have _any_ friends there ? Is there _anyone_ who can stand your
venomous outpourings for more than a few minutes ? I pity you my friend..
may be in the next life you'll make peace with yourself and be rid of the
enormous inferiority complex that warps your vision so much..
Vinod.
Raju Agarwal
: Raju Agarwal (raga...@bu.edu) wrote on 18 Feb 1996 22:53:19 GMT:
: >The same so called right wing also considers Sikhs to be a sect of Hindus, and
: >the Golden Temple a magnificent example of Hindu architecture. Seems unlikely
: >that Hindus would want to antaganize a group who they percieve to be also
: >Hindus.
: What a load of claptrap. The denial of distinctness of the
: Divine Truth revealed in Sikhism and a unique Sikh identity
: is hardly anything like a compliment to any self respecting
: Sikh. Of course the jansanghi-ass licker "Sikhs" only would
: accept such trash as anything even remotely meaningful.
Look,
I understand that you do not consider Sikhism to be a part of Hinduism. Nor
am i suggesting that you change your religious views. All that I ask is that
you respect my religious beliefs as I respect yours. Just as you can cite
phrases from Gurbani that support your view, I can also cite phrases from the
Gita, Rama Krishna PArhamsa, and Swami Vivekananda that support mine.
Incidentally, I believe that in time, both views will converge.
: It is funny to see that all this junk comes from bigots
: who themeselves DO NOT believe in Sikhism, and are not
: even remotely related to anything in Sikhism or Sikh history.
: >Moreover, did they just wake up one morning with the idea to persecute Sikhs?
: >How come there is no past record of Hindu Sikh problems. Your logic just
: >doestn add up.
: Go read some as yet unsanitized and uncorrupted history, twit. The
: persecution of Sikhs at the hands of Hindu bigots is as old
: as Sikhism itself.
: But, being a deshbigot selfrighteous armchair philosopher, you
: will of course continue your pontifications instead of
: hauling your butt across Cummington Street and getting informed
: by reading some Gurbani and Sikh history in my office. I have made
: that offer to you repeatedly, on the net and off the net.
when I'm not on the net, I'm usually studying, or looking for a job. Reading
Gurbani is not my priority at the moment.
Has it ever occured to you to try and understand my religious beliefs, to know
where I'm coming from. In the Gita, Krishna says that all paths of worship
lead to the same one God, and that all Gods were mere different forms of the
one God. Sounds alot like the same explanation given in "Sikhism".
Raju
: Oh well...
Rajwinder Singh
>I understand that you do not consider Sikhism to be a part of Hinduism. Nor
>am i suggesting that you change your religious views. All that I ask is that
>you respect my religious beliefs as I respect yours. Just as you can cite
>phrases from Gurbani that support your view, I can also cite phrases from the
>Gita, Rama Krishna PArhamsa, and Swami Vivekananda that support mine.
>Incidentally, I believe that in time, both views will converge.
Raju,
For myself, I have always refrained from preaching to Hindus, Muslims
Christians and so on, partly because it is none of my business what they
should believe in, and partly because I have no intention to indulge
in mindfuck or talking about something that I do not know about well
enough. What I have problems with is your superciliuosly condescending
attitude when you preach to Sikhs about what Sikhism says. Hear it again:
you know NOTHING about Sikhism, because you have not read any Gurbani.
In view of this, as I have done on many earlier occasions, I invite you to
shut the hell up. Thank you.
>: It is funny to see that all this junk comes from bigots
>: who themeselves DO NOT believe in Sikhism, and are not
>: even remotely related to anything in Sikhism or Sikh history.
>when I'm not on the net, I'm usually studying, or looking for a job. Reading
>Gurbani is not my priority at the moment.
How come preaching to Sikhs is such a high priority for you, then?
>Has it ever occured to you to try and understand my religious beliefs, to know
>where I'm coming from. In the Gita, Krishna says that all paths of worship
>lead to the same one God, and that all Gods were mere different forms of the
>one God. Sounds alot like the same explanation given in "Sikhism".
Did I EVER comment on your beliefs? Having had quite a few experiences,
I have some idea where you come from. Again, we see you preaching about
what Sikhism says. [read your last line above.]
Raju, HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell you to refrain from pontificating
on Sikhism without reading Gurbani? Why the hell don't you understand?
I am sorry to have to be so blunt and impolite, but there seems to be
no way of making you listen to reason. Again, to remind you, I have to
repeat a few things:
1. Before talking about Sikhism, kindly make sure you know about it.
Which means go read Gurbani and some Sikh history. Withou doing that,
you will be doing exactly what you accuse me of [something I never
indulged in, BTW].
2. Before you pontificate about recent and current events and processes
in Punjab, kindly get informed.
3. Before claiming outrageous things and accusing people of crimes and
all other sorts of filth that you do, kindly make sure you are
not lying and are in fact speaking based on facts.
For example, before barking about Bhindranwale, kindly cite ONE shred
of evidence about his alleged crimes.
BTW, these points go to all the deshbigots, including the Varmoid
baander sena.
Regards,
Rajwinder Singh.
kumar
if krishna is illeterate hoe come the gita is attributed to him.
your religious ignorance is profound. I suspect you yourself are
illeterate.
kumar
Pavit Singh
>1. Before talking about Sikhism, kindly make sure you know about it.
> Which means go read Gurbani and some Sikh history. Withou doing that,
> you will be doing exactly what you accuse me of [something I never
> indulged in, BTW].
>2. Before you pontificate about recent and current events and processes
> in Punjab, kindly get informed.
>3. Before claiming outrageous things and accusing people of crimes and
> all other sorts of filth that you do, kindly make sure you are
> not lying and are in fact speaking based on facts.
> For example, before barking about Bhindranwale, kindly cite ONE shred
> of evidence about his alleged crimes.
> BTW, these points go to all the deshbigots, including the Varmoid
> baander sena.
IMHO Mr. Aggarwal is not a "desbhagat" but I would like to add
Desbhagats:
4. Before making ridiculous claims (Guru Gobind Singh ji was a Mughal
pensioner) bring your sources or some reliable statistics.
5. Please know the basic facts before engaging in your
pointifications. (A desbhagat asked me how Punjab could secede from
India, since it is in central India :-))
6. When someone asks you to cite your source (this goes for anonymy
and Coomar) please tell us your sources.
7. Don't label all Sikhs in one group.
8. Don't justify crimes like the Delhi riots or rape of Sikh women.
You only show your own level of mental perversion when you do so.
Indranil DasGupta
: In group soc.culture.indian Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@barney) wrote:
: Hatred
: and venom and greed and cruelty and selfishness and blind prejudice oozes out
: of every letter you type. This can't be due to sikhism, the sikhs I know are
: delightful, cheery, gentle people. Your problem is something else, I won't
: blame it on the Gurbani.
Rajwinder is actually quite a fine chap. Ironically I think you are a tad
prejudiced yourself, Vinod.
: The sikhs of punjab would have cheered the loudest. Do you have any idea how
: ashamed most sikhs in india are that someone like that snake was born in their
: community ? Even now their heads bow with shame, and people like YOU are the
: reason. YOU are their biggest enemy, and all indians will do their best to
: protect our sikh brothers from this cancer that threatens their homeland.
Er.. aren't you laying it a little too thick there? I know many Sikhs
myself. Few seem to have their heads bowed in shame for Bhindranwale's
deeds. And fewer Indians bow their heads in shame for the 1984 massacre
of Sikhs.
: Do you really have _any_ friends there ? Is there _anyone_ who can stand your
: venomous outpourings for more than a few minutes ? I pity you my friend..
: may be in the next life you'll make peace with yourself and be rid of the
: enormous inferiority complex that warps your vision so much..
:) :) :)
I say Rajwinder, why don't you resolve this debate the `Jath' way? I'll
be your second.
Indranil.
Sahdra Harjinder S
Followup-To:
soc.culture.punjab,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.indian.kerala,soc.culture.indian.marathi,alt.politics.india.progressive,alt.culture.tamil,soc.culture.punjab,alt.culture.karnataka,soc.culture.pakistan:
dian.gujarati,soc.culture.bengali,soc.culture.indian.delhi,alt.culture.kerala,alt.culture.us.asian-indian:
References: <4fjdul$r...@morgoth.sfu.ca> <4fju31$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <rajwi.31260e9d-e@otto> <312B6069...@synopsys.com>
Distribution:
kumar (ku...@synopsys.com) wrote:
: if sriram was illeterate how come one upnishad is attributed to him.
: kumar
Kumar, the word is "illiterate" not "illEterate". Would i be wrong in
concluding that you yourself are also illiterate??!
BlueHeaven
:]WhoDuNNiT? (vin...@india.hp.com) wrote:
:]: In group soc.culture.indian Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@barney) wrote:
:]Rajwinder is actually quite a fine chap. Ironically I think you are a tad
:]prejudiced yourself, Vinod.
I certainly am, against people whose cure for a disease is to kill the
patient. I've always agreed the delhi riots were horrendous and the guilty
should be punished.. and that the punjab problem is originally IG's creation.
But this guy here wants to split up india, attack india on all fronts and
generally loves to see this country absolutely destroyed, along with the
punjabis who are a part of this country. All this with him in a cozy comfy
place on the other side of the globe. Right ! I am prejudiced aginst this chap
and the likes of him.
He may be a good person to his friends, but my judgement of him has to be
based on the attacks he makes on India, once his own home country.
:]: The sikhs of punjab would have cheered the loudest. Do you have any idea how
:]: ashamed most sikhs in india are that someone like that snake was born in their
:]: community ? Even now their heads bow with shame, and people like YOU are the
:]: reason. YOU are their biggest enemy, and all indians will do their best to
:]: protect our sikh brothers from this cancer that threatens their homeland.
:]Er.. aren't you laying it a little too thick there? I know many Sikhs
:]myself. Few seem to have their heads bowed in shame for Bhindranwale's
:]deeds. And fewer Indians bow their heads in shame for the 1984 massacre
:]of Sikhs.
Really ? So when did you conduct a survey last ? Most people I know would like
to see bhagat and sajjan kumar hang. May be the fact that i'm from south
explains it. I know there is a lot of antipathy against sikhs in delhi. But
you can't hold the whole country responsible for the actions of a few
congress thugs. And even u have to admit, bhindranwala, whether IG initially
supported him or not, deserved what he got.
And most of the sikhs (i have not been to punjab, so these people are those
who live outside punjab, devout sikhs nevertheless) I know did not support
bhindranwala. Most of them were angry with IG too, but they did'nt have any
good words for bhindran either. They feel congress and bhindran, who was once
their puppet, together screwed punjab.
:]: Do you really have _any_ friends there ? Is there _anyone_ who can stand your
:]: venomous outpourings for more than a few minutes ? I pity you my friend..
:]: may be in the next life you'll make peace with yourself and be rid of the
:]: enormous inferiority complex that warps your vision so much..
:]:) :) :)
:]I say Rajwinder, why don't you resolve this debate the `Jath' way? I'll
:]be your second.
:]Indranil.
Ok, I admit I was a little more emotional than rational here.. just got
carried away, and if yu look at Rajwi's posts u can see he hardly resorts to
reason either. Btw, you may have to make a trip to india if u need to resolve
anything with me. Again, explains why I'm a little more concerned with what
happens to india than most guys in this ng. I live here in india.
Vinod.
Rajwinder Singh
>I say Rajwinder, why don't you resolve this debate the `Jath' way? I'll
>be your second.
>Indranil.
Naah. I don't like to kick turds. My feet get shitty.
rs
--
Rajwinder Singh
>:]Rajwinder is actually quite a fine chap. Ironically I think you are a tad
>:]prejudiced yourself, Vinod.
>I certainly am, against people whose cure for a disease is to kill the
>patient. I've always agreed the delhi riots were horrendous and the guilty
>should be punished.. and that the punjab problem is originally IG's creation.
blah blah blah... the usual deshbhagt farts.
>But this guy here wants to split up india,
Cite me, MF [MF means "my friend", any other interpretation is entirely
your own imagination.]
So, cite me, MF.
>attack india on all fronts and
>generally loves to see this country absolutely destroyed, along with the
>punjabis who are a part of this country. All this with him in a cozy comfy
>place on the other side of the globe. Right ! I am prejudiced aginst this chap
>and the likes of him.
I am sooooo glad I cost idiots like you so much peace of their perverted
minds! Keep it up, Schmucker.
>He may be a good person to his friends, but my judgement of him has to be
>based on the attacks he makes on India, once his own home country.
"Once"?
>congress thugs. And even u have to admit, bhindranwala, whether IG initially
>supported him or not, deserved what he got.
I love to ask the deshbigots again and again: Tell me MF, what was
Bhindranwala's crime. Only facts, please. No opinions, hearsay or outright
lies. So, bring on the evidence!
>And most of the sikhs (i have not been to punjab, so these people are those
>who live outside punjab, devout sikhs nevertheless) I know did not support
>bhindranwala.
Schmucker, you do not know anything abt Punjab. Younever been there, and all
you want is emotional orgasms. Punjab is currently your favorite fantasy.
You DON'T make a shit of a diference, loser.
>Most of them were angry with IG too, but they did'nt have any
>good words for bhindran either. They feel congress and bhindran, who was once
>their puppet, together screwed punjab.
They might be as swayed by propaganda and rumors as your own bloated self,
you mouse!
>:]I say Rajwinder, why don't you resolve this debate the `Jath' way? I'll
>:]be your second.
>Ok, I admit I was a little more emotional than rational here.. just got
>carried away,
You are ONLY emotional, loser. Else why would you be fantasizing about a
land you have nothing to do with, never been there, don't know many from
that land and so on? But carry on, schmuck.
>and if yu look at Rajwi's posts u can see he hardly resorts to
>reason either. Btw, you may have to make a trip to india if u need to resolve
>anything with me. Again, explains why I'm a little more concerned with what
>happens to india than most guys in this ng. I live here in india.
You live in a delusion, idiot. Get a life or else go back to India.
About the 'reason' or lack thereof in my posts, neither you nor any other
deshbigot has ever answered, for ecample, the question I have asked yu
in this post.
Your time is up. Next please!
rs
--
Rajarshi Mukherjee
> >happens to india than most guys in this ng. I live here in india.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rajwinder proclaimed:
> You live in a delusion, idiot. Get a life or else go back to India
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, that is exactly where Vinod is, in the midst of reality,
in India. He is not barking loudly, smoke and fire spewing all
over, sitting in utopian comfort, where prophesizing is so damn
easy, (even a fool can do it) out here in the States.
I am yet to see any constructive suggestions from you on how
exactly the Punjab problem ought to be solved. All you have
done is rant and rave like a hair-brained dolt.
Get a life Rajwinder. And stop this hate mongering.
- A Wellwisher
PS: Will respond only to constructive rational discussion.
All flames and obscenities will be ignored.
Rajwinder Singh
>:]Or, check out the list of Sikhs tortured in the numerous interrogation
>:]centers all over Punjab.
>:]Or check out the list of thousands of SIkhs who have been
>:]incarcerated for DECADES without trial.
>Or check out the millions of sikhs who live and prosper in bombay, pune,
>bangalore.. (i've lived for a reasonable amount of time only in these
>places).
>or check out the sikhs who head the nation.., who are often the wealthiest
>community anywhere they go, with the exception of perhaps the parsis..
Any relation out here???? Yup, no one is denying that SIKHS are
wealthy and some how have managed to reach some high posts in the
govt.
But can that be used to ignore the fact what govt. did to Punjab and what
was done to SIKHS all over INDIA during 1984?
Mr. you are going in tangent direction and as usual trying to
kill the main point.
>Sorry mister.. its not goung to work. This is an age old ploy.. make
>inflammatory remarks posing as a member of some ethnic group.. bait others
>to flame back and using those get sympathy from that community..
>age old trick used by all politicians.. you have a bright future..
>now, makes me wonder.. How do I know you are a sikh for real ? You can't do
>better work if you are a paki propagandist...
As usual. Playing the same game that GOI did when they labelled
all SIKHS from Punjab asking for rightful portion of their
water , electricity and land as secessionists in nature. SIkhs are
angry because the Punjab problem has lingered on for quite some
while without any solution and all you guys do is accuse and point
fingers at each other. Yes, everyone of you.
Accusing us of paki propoganda just because we are angry at how
GOI has fucked up Punjab. When was the last time when you
guys accepted that actually it was GOI who was responsible for
this.
Go on
Suminderpal SIngh
**Dsiclaimer**
I am posting from Rajwinder's account.
>how much do you get paid for all this anyway ? judging by the volume you
>spam in this network.. you can't be doing much else..
--
--
Rajwinder Singh
> I am yet to see any constructive suggestions from you on how
> exactly the Punjab problem ought to be solved. All you have
> done is rant and rave like a hair-brained dolt.
The first thing to do about Punjab "problem" is to get irrelevant
assholes like you and *vinod* schmucker to shut the hell up -- they
never been to Punjab, they don't matter to Punjab. They are IRRELEVANT and
they should shut up and better yet drop dead.
> Get a life Rajwinder. And stop this hate mongering.
"HAte mongering" is very subjective. I am yet to see anyone cite a
single line of hate-mongering post I have written. Cite me, idiot.
> - A Wellwisher
No, you are a fool.
> PS: Will respond only to constructive rational discussion.
> All flames and obscenities will be ignored.
Well, shut up about Punjab, to begin with. Second, cite my posts where
I di hate-mongering.
The simple fact is that you deshbigots simply hate me ad others like me who
have families i Punjab, who have lived in Punjab most of their lives. OTOH,
you fools have done only one thing -- using Punjab as a fantasy for your
mental jerkoff. When was the last time, for example, I meddled in Bengalis'
affairs, idiot?
Regards
rs
Rajwinder Singh
>In group soc.culture.indian Rajwinder Singh (rajwi@barney) wrote:
>So you consider 'deshbhakt' an insult eh ? Even Judas wasn't so blatant about
>his intentions. Even if you did get khalistan, you'd sell them all for a few
>silver coins, or may be a professorship in a US uty. The sikhs of india are more
As usual jumping the gun when they cannot indulge in ration discussion.
Just as GOI did when they wanted to play with Punjab. Sikhs were
asking fro water, electricity and Chandigarh and GOi was talking
and perpetuation the notion of SIKHS showing seccessionist traits.
Similarly, Vinod Baboo, indulging in the famous pass time that has
become some sort of a trademark for bigoted loosers.
VInod Sahib, I challange you to show where and when Rajwinder ever
talk about Khalistan. Did he even raise the demand for Khalsitan??
Or this is your concoction???
>intelligent than you give them credit for mister, after the bad time they had
>at your hands, they've learned to keep well away from the likes of you..
>You can't fool them again as the master con-man bhindran once did.
Yeah, blah blah. the usual mind-farts thus continue......
>No. But NO, repeat _NO_ religion sanctions amassing weapons of mass destruction.
>It is just your fanciful interpretation to suit your subversive intentions.
>Period!. One dosen't need to be a scholar to see through your words. Hatred
>and venom and greed and cruelty and selfishness and blind prejudice oozes out
>of every letter you type. This can't be due to sikhism, the sikhs I know are
>delightful, cheery, gentle people. Your problem is something else, I won't
>blame it on the Gurbani.
I have to agree to some extent out here. There is no need for
automatic weapons to be gathered in Guruudwaraas. If it comes to
prtecting ourselves I am sure SIKHS can do very well by fighting
outside gurudwaras. I still believe in the strength and courage
that Guru Gobind Singh has passed on to us. we took the hit
in 1984 but we are up again and even stronger.
>To reply in your style, read geeta, the vedas, mahabharat, ramayana, quran,
>bible and indian constitution and the UN charter completely before you open
*******************
Indian Constitution just looks good on paper..
>your mouth again. Unless you can show proof you have done that, you should not
>say another word. Now, if you would follow your own advise, _that_ should keep
>you quiet for sometime..
>> 2. What, for example, was Bhindranwale's crime? Facts only, please.
>> It is interesting that not a SINGLE deshbigot has EVER addressed
>> this. Rumors continue.
>He KILLED people, INNOCENT people. He wanted to SPLIT up this country. For you
Show proofs please. Go and read his interview in Sunday back from year
1982, 83and 84. And read them carefully. Then come back and talk to me.
If you cannot find these articles,please let me know I will post
them to you.
So the mind farts continue....
>these may be mere games. For deshbhakts, it is the biggest crime anyone can
>commit. He deserved to die. A pity he could not be captured and hung in public.
>The sikhs of punjab would have cheered the loudest. Do you have any idea how
>ashamed most sikhs in india are that someone like that snake was born in their
>community ? Even now their heads bow with shame, and people like YOU are the
>reason. YOU are their biggest enemy, and all indians will do their best to
>protect our sikh brothers from this cancer that threatens their homeland.
And let me guess you are talking for the whole of SIKH community??
>Mister, you are not the only sikh in the world. You are not representative of
>anyone except yourself. I have many sikh friends who are very happy here and
>prospering like the rest of us peaceful people. You are nothing but a homeless
>orphan, who knows nothing but how to spew haterd and venom in his neighbourhood.
When was the last time your family suffered because of what happend
in Punjab or DELHI???
Yes, life goes on and people continue to pick up the scattered
beads but they will not forget what happened in 1984.
>Really ? when you go around distributing your opinions high and low ? What do
>you mean by facts ? anything that suits your purpose ? get real man. This
>world has no time for you, nor do india or punjab. You are stuck in
>time about 20 years back. We have all gone ahead. Soon people will not even
>understand what you are talking about, even punjabis..., not that many do
>now.
Probably you are right. But let me assue you that the generation
that has suffered will not forget. I will not forget what happened
in DELHI in 1984. bUT, PROBABLY YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT AGAIN. i MIGHT
FORGET ALL ABOUT IT WHEN i GET UP TOMORROW MORNING.
Suminderpal SIngh
**Disclaimer**
I am posting from Rajwinder's account.
--
Iris Blue
:]BlueHeaven (vin...@india.hp.com) wrote on 26 Feb 1996 11:21:18 GMT:
:]>I certainly am, against people whose cure for a disease is to kill the
:]>patient. I've always agreed the delhi riots were horrendous and the guilty
:]>should be punished.. and that the punjab problem is originally IG's creation.
:]blah blah blah... the usual deshbhagt farts.
Right! Whatever you don't like is BS.. don't you dream the workd was just
like _you_ want it ?
:]>But this guy here wants to split up india,
:]Cite me, MF [MF means "my friend", any other interpretation is entirely
:]your own imagination.]
:]So, cite me, MF.
Stupid trick, but then what can you expect. I'm sure you are tickled to death
about your own cleverness. I wish you had just a little more class... But then
that's one point where u score over your rivals. You make them feel so cheap
arguing with such a foul mouth, they soon shut up.
As for citing you, just go back and read all your mails. Each one of them is
full of hatred for India. Do you think I maintain an archive of your
articles. You are just like the very same indian politicians you are so much
against. You speak excatly the same. You'd have had a good career in india if
u had cared to join the congress. You might have even become the PM.
:]I am sooooo glad I cost idiots like you so much peace of their perverted
:]minds! Keep it up, Schmucker.
But we still have our roots rajwi, (that was certainly no trick insult, i
really meant to address you by the name your parents gave you), unlike you
who are fighting yourself. In any other country you will be a 'dirty indian'
and in india you will be a traitor to his own people. You should worry about
your peace of mind first.
:]>He may be a good person to his friends, but my judgement of him has to be
:]>based on the attacks he makes on India, once his own home country.
:]"Once"?
You don't intent to call india your home country do you ? Don't be such a
hypocrite, atleast be true in your hatred if that's the only emotion you are
capable of feeling.
:]I love to ask the deshbigots again and again: Tell me MF, what was
:]Bhindranwala's crime. Only facts, please. No opinions, hearsay or outright
:]lies. So, bring on the evidence!
If you do not yet know what bhindran's crime is, you will never learn. One can
wake up a sleeping man, but not one who is pretending to be asleep. Killing
people, subverting national integrity, amassing arms don't these sound like
crimes to you ?, and please don't drag gurbani into this.. i have a lot of
respect for the sikh religion, don't spread the idea that sikhism is
synonymous with terrorism. Can you imagine what a stranger reading these posts
will think when you make statements like 'gurbani sanctions carrying of
weapons, even if they are hand grenades and AK-47s'?. People like you hurt the
cause of sikhs more than anyone else.
:]Schmucker, you do not know anything abt Punjab. Younever been there, and all
:]you want is emotional orgasms. Punjab is currently your favorite fantasy.
:]You DON'T make a shit of a diference, loser.
Neither do you mister. And this is of course your favourite stuff.. to say
anything about punjab, one has to have lived there all one's life, read the
entire punjab literature, all religious books of sikhism.. i wonder whether
even you qualify. Atleast I live in india, with the current realities of this
place. I meet my sikh friends who occasionaly go home to punjab and come back
and report it is no longer a crime for a boy to give a lift to a girl, that a
girl wearing a short skirt in ludhiana is no longer ostracised or become a
potential victim of the terrorists. What about you mister ? what claims can
you make to knowing the ground realities in punjab today ? reading gurbani and
understanding what punjab needs are 2 different things altogether.
:]>Most of them were angry with IG too, but they did'nt have any
:]>good words for bhindran either. They feel congress and bhindran, who was once
:]>their puppet, together screwed punjab.
:]They might be as swayed by propaganda and rumors as your own bloated self,
:]you mouse!
Ha ! atlast, you _do_ admit there are sikhs who don't consider bhindran as the
last of the gurus. Of course those sikhs are fools, who can't think for
themselves. Only _you_ can decide what is good for punjab. Boy, how lucky
punjab is yu are just a harmless garden snake. Talk about armchair terrorists..
:]You are ONLY emotional, loser. Else why would you be fantasizing about a
:]land you have nothing to do with, never been there, don't know many from
:]that land and so on? But carry on, schmuck.
Sorry mister, I have more claim to this land than you do. punjab is a part of
MY country that I love. For you punjab is just a means for power. You think
you will be someone in this world if only you and your likes can steal a chunk
from india and the punjabis. Sorry, punjab belongs with us, we ain't gonna let
anyone loot our country anymore.
Yes, I am emtional. Threats against this country that I call motherland, where
I live in, are not some arcade games that I can be cool and calculated about.
May be if I had been a traitor to my own people and opted to spend the rest of
my life as a second class citizen in some western nation, I too would have
had so much fun out of trashing india the way you do, though I doubt i can get
that perverted.
:]You live in a delusion, idiot. Get a life or else go back to India.
:]About the 'reason' or lack thereof in my posts, neither you nor any other
:]deshbigot has ever answered, for ecample, the question I have asked yu
:]in this post.
I know there are so many jokes about how dumb the sardars are. They are NOT
true. Just look at the 2 people who are turning around india's fortunes today.
Alhuwalia and Manmohan Singh. Please please be a bit more careful rajwi (no
offence intended) or you will make others take these jokes for real. I _live_
_in_ _india_.. how many times do I have to repeat it for it to get into that
wondorous brain of yours ?
Just try to reflect on what an image you are giving the people of punjab.
Terrorist, Joker, sure hope no one takes you for an average indian, or
punjabi.
:]rs
Vinod.
Sahdra Harjinder S
: Get a life Rajwinder. And stop this hate mongering.
Here we go again:
Kindly provide one shred of evidence showing the above named individual
to be a hate mongerer.
You will not be able to do so - like your hardcore, Sikh-hating, hindu
brethren you are full of COW SHIT.
Pavit Singh
>Really ? So when did you conduct a survey last ? Most people I know would like
>to see bhagat and sajjan kumar hang. May be the fact that i'm from south
>explains it. I know there is a lot of antipathy against sikhs in delhi. But
>you can't hold the whole country responsible for the actions of a few
>congress thugs.
The reaction of most Indians to what the Cong(I) did was either apathy
or tacit support. Most people felt the "Sikhs had it coming." In
fact, Mr. Bhagat won by a margin of 500,000 in his locality right
after the riots.
P. Singh
Supratic Gupta
>The simple fact is that you deshbigots simply hate me ad others like me who
>have families i Punjab, who have lived in Punjab most of their lives. OTOH,
>you fools have done only one thing -- using Punjab as a fantasy for your
>mental jerkoff. When was the last time, for example, I meddled in Bengalis'
>affairs, idiot?
>
Can you explain what you mean by "I" in the last sentence? Do you mean Punjabi
people? Because or else the statement looks illogical.
The question should be
"When did a Punjabi meddle in an affair of other state"?
Come and see the situation in Assam, you will probably get a answer.
Gupta
Rajwinder Singh
>First, my brain didn't overload, it overloaded once when I was watching
>some porno web sites.
Now that is amusing.
>There has to be a limit or else soon, individuals could be allowed to
>carry nuclear weapons? (should personal size nukes or any small weapon of
>that destructive magnitude be developed at all) Perhaps the religious
>leaders weren't thinking what Western science would bring about then...
I have to agree with you here. In Sikhsim, when the need to carry
arms was felt SIKHS did carry arms. The debate to carry arms can
go on for ever. I felt there was every need to have weapon in our
home during 1984. People who were caught in the buses or on the
roads during 1984 riots surely would have felt a lot safer if they
had been carrying some arms. On the other hand when I go to work
I don't see the need to carry automatic weapons.
Unfortunately, every society can be divided on the basis of religion.
Now, we never view the ISRAELS right to exit and bare amrs as any
matter of grave concern. As a matter of fact the very fact that
ISRAEL is a mainly Jewish settlement and their right to exist is
not viewed as a religious survival but as the survival of a nation.
Is it wrong? The situation in ISRAEl can viewed as
a) Jews carrying arms to protect their religious freedom and their
rights surrounded by Muslims. Here the ISRAELI army can viewed
as individual jews carrying arms to protect themselves from
Muslims.
b) Israelis bearing arms to defend their rights from any act of
aggression from outsider. This is a very common scene where
countries build up army like anything to protect themselves.
What is the most generaly accepted reason over here. Can these
two reasons be seperated? If not then the right of ISRAELIS to
carry arms is as wrong as the right of HINDUS, SIKHS or
MULSIMS to carry arms. If that is the case then why is INDIA
supporting ISRAEL now???
There is no limit. The limit is what the society wants to define
it as. The limit is what you think is reasonable according to
you. Limit is not absolute based on what I have mentioned. There
will be a time when carry missile launchers will be expected
based on how and where this world is going.
In your argument you have pointed out only one scenerio by
bringing in religious leaders. There are multiple other options
also.
Things that I have seen happening in INDIA, e.g.
a) 1984 riots perpetuated against one community by the elected
government of the country
b) Destruction of Babri Masjid with the consent of govt.
Where the govt. is deliberately commiting crimes against other
communities, I don't see how you have only chosen to point
fingers at only religious leaders.
>That the Punjab has been a free region forever, and that it belongs to the
>Sikh people since its "inception." The other more realistic issues are the
>transfer of land areas, water sharing but there is no stopping where one
>can go back to history and claim a region as their own group's! You could
>go back 4-5 centuries and trace the history to emergence of Sikhism, I
>could trace the region's history 10 centuries and claim it as Hindu land!
>That is to say, religion and politics when merged become quite explosive.
It is unfortunate that the demand for water and electricity by
the people of Punjab has been labelled by the GOI as a demand
for a seperate country by the SIKHS. When the Anadpur Sahib
resolution was first introduced there was no demand for Khalistan
or even seperate country. Only couple of people at that time
e.g. Balbir Singh Sandhu and Jagjit Singh Chauhan were talking
about Khalsitan. I have yet to read any news report where anyone
can quote me any AKALI or even Bhindranwala for that matter can
be quoted , asking for Khalistan.
The demands were very simple and could have been easily resolved
but alas the GOI played its politics, let the situation go out of
hand.
Just like you carry these notions that have been fed to you by
govt. propoganda the whole of INDIA is in the same boat. It is not
SIKHS fault but GOI and the whole of INDIA's fault that has
neglected the PUNJAB.
>You tell me whether the pro-independence Sikhs in the US are genuinely
>helping their own people within India by pouring money into the "US
>Congress sinkhole"
Nope. The people out here are clueless (most of them) as it is very
obvious from the crowd that hangs around on net.
>Political sophistication is an art that still needs to be mastered by the
>Sikh culture, unfortunately. That is also the case with the Indian society
>as a whole, especially the state of Tamil Nadu.
I have to agree with you.
Suminderpal Singh
