A List of Taino Organizations and There Sub-Divisions In The US and Caribbean Islands
Beverly Carey Torres
FYI:
I am providing the general public with a complete
list of Taino tribal and other Taino organizations and there educational
cultural Incorporation's. This does not include the other Taino communities
in Cuba "Caridad De Los Indios" and other the parts of the Caribbean,
Bahamas and the Carib Indigenous People of lesser Antilles.
1. Biaraku (VA)
2. Baramaya (NY)
3. Cacibajagua (NY)
4. Maisit Yucayeke (NY)
5. Ciboney Tribe Inc. (FL)
6. Presencia Taina Inc. (NY)
7. Yucayeke Guajataca (NY)
8. Kanei Spiritual Circle (NY)
9. Kanei Quinto Mundo Inc. (PR)
10. The Tanama Taino Tribe (NY)
11. War Party Productions Inc. (NY)
12. Four Directions Lodge Inc. (NY)
13. Taino Inter-Tribal Council Inc. (NJ)
14. La Nacion Taina De Las Antillas (NY)
15. Jatibonicu Taino Tribe of Boriken (PR)
16. The Turabo Taino Tribe of Boriken (PR)
17. Taino Ancestral Legacy Keepers Inc. (NY)
18. United Confederation of Taino People (NY)
19. Fundacion Historica De Jatibonicu Inc. (PR)
20. Tekesta Taino Tribal Band of Bimini Inc. (FL)
21. Tekesta Taino Tribal Band of Bimini Florida (FL)
22. Consejo General de Tainos Borincanos Inc. (PR)
23. Jatibonicu Taino Tribal Band of New Jersey (NJ)
24. Fundacion Social Luz Cosmica Fraternlista Taina (SD)
25. Cultural Center of The Taino Nation of the Antillies Inc. (NY)
With All Respect, Tainoti
Beverly Carey Torres, TITC President
Taino Inter-Tribal Council Inc. New Jersey
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/taino/
:
:Join: The Taino American Indian Web Ring
: http://www.Taino-Tribe.Org/tainowr.html
:
Tribal Affiliation: Taino People or Nation:
http://www.Taino-Tribe.org/jatiboni.html
The Jatibonicu Taino Tribe of Boriken (PR)
(C) Copyright 1999 Taino Inter-Tribal Council Inc. (NJ)
Eitel Sanchez
Eitel
Beverly Carey Torres <ti...@dandy.net> wrote in message
news:3811...@news.dandy.net...
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:i4nQ3.229$h31...@nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net...
> En cual de todas esas cae Turey el taino???
CALLA, IGNORANTE!!! Ese es el proximo que van a demandar por "violation of
civil rights of an ethnic people"!!!
Menos mal que Yayo el Indio se murio, pero La Taina que se prepare para la
demanda por "indecent exposure of an ethnic piece of ASS"!!!
JSP
Golem
de ellos tiene 5 organizaciones de la que los demás son miembros, usted ve esas
listas de organizaciones larguísimas y son los mismos cuatro gatos en todas...
¡¿¿Qué estamos esperando para hacer nuestra propia tribu de CARIBES ?!?
Beverly Carey Torres wrote:
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." ( Edmund Burke )
Beverly Carey Torres
PUBLIC ADDRESS, To the Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Native American
communities and to the general public.
I am going to publicly address this public issue as the
President of the Taino Inter-Tribal Council Inc. a Native American Nonprofit
educational organization. I am asking that you and your 3 friends and others
please stop publicly slandering and downgrading the integrity of the
leadership of the many Taino Native American educational, cultural and
tribal organizations that operate within the Caribbean, Florida and United
States Diaspora.
These Taino organizations are not controlled by one party of
5 people as you have publicly stated in the past. They do however operate
via their own Taino Tribal Councils and/or State Corporate Boards of
Directors.
We had in the past provided a list of 25 Taino organizations
solely as a point of reference and public information within the Internet
newsgroups as a resource.
We truly do not understand the reasoning nor the motivation
behind your public statements and attacks. We however do sense a strong
feeling of anti-Taino sentiment and bigotry on the part of your group that
is being directed against the Taino Native American People of the Caribbean
and Florida.
On a more serious note, I hope that your small group of
friends realize that you and your group are slowly digging a hole for
yourselves. After addressing this issue, we hope that you and your Internet
friends do start to take this issue very seriously and do not take it as
some kind of joke. Furthermore, we hope that you and your friends can see
the consequences that may be at this moment developing behind these
unfounded public statements. These public statements are negative and
unproductive and have caused a major financial loss to our educational,
cultural non-profit incorporations.
Again we ask that you please stop your public attacks upon our
Taino Native American people of Puerto Rico, Cuba, Santo Domingo and the
United States. I hope that we have made ourselves clear on this issue and
that I will not have to address this issue again.
CC: Coqui.Net Administration: Datacom Caribe Inc. in...@coqui.net
CC: Mr. Golem <rs...@coqui.net
CC: Mr. Jaime D. Sotomayor Pabon ji...@coqui.net
CC:AT&T Worldnet Service Administration AT&T Inc. ab...@att.net
CC: Mr. Peter Miller prwol...@worldnet.att.net
CC: TO ALL Taino State Incorporation's and Tribal Organizations
CC: TITC Corporate Business Agent
With All Respect, Tainoti
Beverly Carey Torres, TITC President
BOARD OF DIRECTORS TITC Inc.
Golem
We have stated what is considered a historical fact - that the Taino indians of
the Caribbean Islands of Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica, and Puerto Rico, have been
EXTINCT for CENTURIES. We have also repeatedly asked you, in public, to
demonstrate your questionable claims - that you are indeed "true Tainos", that
somehow (and somewhere) have survived through the ages, unseen and undetected
for centuries, in an Island with one of the highest population densities in the
whole world.
So far, your responses have been nothing but insults. evasives, and threats. You
have refused to provide any evidence to support your claims. You have repeatedly
and frivolously accused EVERYONE who dares to question your claims of being a
"bigot", knowing that this is a charged word that puts the recipient on the
defensive. And now, you attempt to intimidate me (by cc: my ISP and FALSELY
accusing me of countless things) and others, again those who have dared to
question your claims and ask for evidence.
Ms. Torres, I am, first and foremost, a scientist. As such, I deal with facts
and I deal with evidence. I am also a Puerto Rican. As such, I am proud of my
cultural heritage, part of which is that of the Tainos. Now, both as a
scientist, and as a Puerto Rican, let me give you a couple of few of advice.
First, there is something called the Scientific Method. In a nutshell, it means
that whoever desires to challenge the scientific status quo on any issue, must
bear the burden of proof, and PROVE his or her claims with supporting EVIDENCE.
You and your groups have chosen to challenge what still remains as an
established and well documented scientific fact, that the Tainos, like the
Caribes, Igneris, Archaics, Siboneyes, Phoenicians, Phillistines, and so many
other peoples in history, ceased to exist as a distinct and separate culture,
CENTURES ago. If you wish to challenge that, go right ahead. If you do it with
scientific data, with evidence, then your words will be heard and your claims
evaluated against the evidence. But if, however, you choose to do so in the way
you have continuously done it, by presenting ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER,
but instead by insulting, threatening, and attempting to intimidate anyone who
dares to question your claims and does not bow and accept them by faith, then
you are not only showing a DEEP ignorance of science and the scientific method,
you are also showing your TRUE intentions and motivations behind all this; and
actually HURTING any credibility you may still retain.
Second, there is something called the Constitution of the United States, which,
in case you didn't know, applies both to Puerto Rico and New Jersey. This
Constitution has something called the FIRST AMMENDMENT. You should read it, you
know. This First Ammendment gives me the RIGHT to voice my opinions on this and
any other issue, whenever I choose to do so. This Ammendment AND the
Constitution protect me and my right of Freedom of Expression from any attempts
of CENSORSHIP, from you or from anyone else. You are free to make all the
outlandish and unscientific claims you want about Tainos (or about how the Earth
is really flat, or about how it is the sun that orbits the Earth and not the
other way around...) I am, likewise, free to speak my mind on this and any
other issue, and free to question your claims. You can try to prove me wrong,
and you can also ignore anything I say. What you CANNOT do is shut me up, or
attempt to censor or limit my freedom of speech in any way.
And third, allow me to inform you that what you are doing is called HARRASSMENT.
Your group has sent me a number of threatening letters, to my private EMail
address. You have made false accusations against me. This is called LIBEL. And
if you continue, it is *I* who will complaint to *your* ISP, and see that you
stop harrassing and difaming anyone who dares to question you.
- RAUL
Golem
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
Where is the Taino Community? I have visited the "Parque Ceremonial" (a
Taino historical site), inspected the whole area and there no Taino indian
were seen. Everybody here on the island knows this fact and sooner or later
and inevitably all the people of the US will know for certain that there are
no Taino tribes in PR. If a "Taino political party" is wished, (TPT), that
is ok! but the general public here in PR knows that there, regretably, are
no Taino community here in PR, no taino indians in Puerto Rico. The general
public is proud of the Taino heritage which is still present in the local
customs, savory dishes, words (haracan/hurricane.... etc). One of the most
beautiful women in the island is TAINA !!!!! You should get the year 2000
calendar!!!
Taina is really something and is known to the general public. Long live the
Taino memory!
You should taste an "almohabana".
Repeat: we have nothing against Taino indians! It is unfortunate that they
(as a community) are 100% extint.
Taino blood is still present? of course!
Golem wrote in message <3813F5AD...@coqui.net>...
J. Vaquer Jr.
<r.falc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>You should taste an "almohabana".
I don't think that's a Taíno legacy...
_____________________________________
J. Vaquer Jr.
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
called "CAGUAS" in honor of the great Taino indian C A G U A X
Say:
"n-dohn-deh-s-tah-eal-moh-noo-men-toh-dell-een-dee-oh?
En donde esta el monumento del indio?"
Where is the monument of the indian?
Better still (I am no expert tourist guide ;-), get a professional tourism
agency to guide you) ;-)
You will save days!! ;-)
Other "taino" cities are:
Guaynabo
Naguabo
Yabucoa
Canovanas
When eating ask for "Ayaka" (Ahh-yah-khah)
almohabana.
tostones
etc
etc
Raymond Falcon-Lugo wrote in message
<7v1e35$juh$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
It "sounds" Taino.
Beverly Carey Torres
Raymond Falcon-Lugo <r.falc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7v1hq3$h7$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
> When you get to the island start looking in the center! In a mayor city
> called "CAGUAS" in honor of the great Taino indian C A G U A X
When in Caguas go to City Hall and ask to speak with
Doctor Jaun David Hernandez the towns' Historian. He can speak to you about
the Turabo Taino Tribe of Puerto Rico. He personally knows the Cacica
(Chief) Carmen Luisa Delgado and her Taino family who are direct decendants
of Cacique (Chief) Baguanamey the brother of Cacique Caguas and the
Delgado-Colon family are the surviving members of the Taino tribe of Turabo.
With All Respect, Tainoti
Beverly Carey Torres, TITC President
Taino Inter-Tribal Council Inc. New Jersey
gole...@my-deja.com
"Raymond Falcon-Lugo" <r.falc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> oops, it is "almojabana" not "almohabana". ;-)
> It "sounds" Taino.
>
"Almojabana" is most probably an ARABIC word. Many Spanish words that
begin with al- have Arabic roots (almohada, alcancia, algodon, etc).
That is also true about some surnames, such as Almodovar, which is a
Latinization of Al-Mudafar, one of the Moor rulers of Southern Spain
before the Reconquista.
Gotitas del Saber...
RAUL
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
gole...@my-deja.com
chief ALL have *SPANISH* surnames? Delgado, Colón, Torres... those
surnames don't sound very "Taíno", do they? Hmmm...
Also, who was Cacique "Caguas"? Because as far as I know, CAGUAS is the
SPANISH rendition of Kawax, the original arawak name. I guess I know a
bit more about the Tainos and their history than you and your little
group of reconstructionists...
Au revoir, mon ami!
RAUL
ps: What did the US Dept of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs,
have to say about your little 'recognize us' campaign?
In article <3814...@news.dandy.net>,
"Beverly Carey Torres" <ti...@dandy.net> wrote:
> Tau/ Hello Ramon,
>
> Raymond Falcon-Lugo <r.falc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:7v1hq3$h7$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
> > When you get to the island start looking in the center! In a mayor
city
> > called "CAGUAS" in honor of the great Taino indian C A G U A X
>
> When in Caguas go to City Hall and ask to speak
with
> Doctor Jaun David Hernandez the towns' Historian. He can speak to you
about
> the Turabo Taino Tribe of Puerto Rico. He personally knows the Cacica
> (Chief) Carmen Luisa Delgado and her Taino family who are direct
decendants
> of Cacique (Chief) Baguanamey the brother of Cacique Caguas and the
> Delgado-Colon family are the surviving members of the Taino tribe of
Turabo.
>
> With All Respect, Tainoti
> Beverly Carey Torres, TITC President
Kip King
I'm not commenting on this directly but surnames can change over time or
with intermarriage. Also many Indians use two names, one non Indian and
one Indian. For instance, I'm Cherokee and a descendant of Chief Redbird
and my name non Indian name is Kip King. My Cherokee name is Gili
Uku.
Kip
gole...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Isn't it interesting that the so-called "direct" descendants of a Taino
> chief ALL have *SPANISH* surnames? Delgado, Colón, Torres... those
> surnames don't sound very "Taíno", do they? Hmmm...
>
> Also, who was Cacique "Caguas"? Because as far as I know, CAGUAS is the
> SPANISH rendition of Kawax, the original arawak name. I guess I know a
> bit more about the Tainos and their history than you and your little
> group of reconstructionists...
>
> Au revoir, mon ami!
>
> RAUL
>
> ps: What did the US Dept of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs,
> have to say about your little 'recognize us' campaign?
>
> In article <3814...@news.dandy.net>,
> "Beverly Carey Torres" <ti...@dandy.net> wrote:
> > Tau/ Hello Ramon,
> >
> > Raymond Falcon-Lugo <r.falc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:7v1hq3$h7$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
> > > When you get to the island start looking in the center! In a mayor
> city
> > > called "CAGUAS" in honor of the great Taino indian C A G U A X
> >
> > When in Caguas go to City Hall and ask to speak
> with
> > Doctor Jaun David Hernandez the towns' Historian. He can speak to you
> about
> > the Turabo Taino Tribe of Puerto Rico. He personally knows the Cacica
> > (Chief) Carmen Luisa Delgado and her Taino family who are direct
> decendants
> > of Cacique (Chief) Baguanamey the brother of Cacique Caguas and the
> > Delgado-Colon family are the surviving members of the Taino tribe of
> Turabo.
> >
> > With All Respect, Tainoti
> > Beverly Carey Torres, TITC President
>
robert
Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote:
>
Raul,
> I'm not commenting on this directly but surnames can change over time
or
> with intermarriage. Also many Indians use two names, one non Indian
and
> one Indian. For instance, I'm Cherokee and a descendant of Chief
Redbird
> and my name non Indian name is Kip King. My Cherokee name is Gili
> Uku.
> Kip
I am wondering toro sentado, how do you know that this supposedly
"Tainos" are reeeaaaalllyyy Tainos. How do you (and do they?) know?
Just because the look like indians? Is there a DNA test comparison
against an ancient taino mummy? Did you see their genealogical tree?
Where is the evidence? No evidence? Aaahhh, now I see.....
Robertito
Ezequiel Gonzalez
It would be interesting to analyze this taino thing from a sociological point of
view. Lie detection test would be interesting. They will not prove that those who
claim to be tainos are actually so, but at least we will know if they really
believe what they are saying. Also, tainos have certain physical traits, it
would be interesting to note of these tainos look like tainos, whites, blacks or
semites [arabs and Mediterranean jews]. Finally, I would like to see genealogies.
From what I gather, these groups are saying that not all tainos died, that many of
them adopted Spanish names, kept a low profile and somehow survived. Could be?
Perhaps! After all, the historical records we all rely upon were written by
Spaniards who may have had good reasons to hide the existence of taino communities
in the island.... Don't know, but, I would like to see facts not mere opinions,
and since these taino groups are the one advocating a new historical viewpoint, I
would like to see their evidence first....
Saludos,
Ezequiel Gonzalez
Art9827
From: Golem rs...@coqui.net
Date: Mon, 25 October 1999 02:16 AM EDT
Message-id: <3813F5AD...@coqui.net>
Let's get a few things straight here:
We have stated what is considered a historical fact - that the Taino indians of
the Caribbean Islands of Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica, and Puerto Rico, have been
EXTINCT for CENTURIES. We have also repeatedly asked you, in public, to
demonstrate your questionable claims - that you are indeed "true Tainos", that
somehow (and somewhere) have survived through the ages, unseen and undetected
for centuries, in an Island with one of the highest population densities in the
whole world
-------------------------------------------------------------
Raul:
You are absolutely right. There is no such person as a full
bred Taino or Arawak Indian left in Puerto Rico.
These tribes have been extinct in Puerto Rico for centuries now. Most of them
died from disease, forced labor, and interbred by their slave masters.
Unlike other Indians in North America, the Taino and Arawak Indians developed
no pronounced culture of their own as they differed widely among themselves,
and were held as slaves by the Spanish and British colonial rule.
The remnants that were left, were exterminated in battle with the Carib Indians
in the West Indies.
Art
Kip King
As I said before, I'm only commenting on how names especially Indian
names, can change over time. I'm not commenting on anything else.
Kip
Larry Daley
?Porque sera que la extrema izquierda de Sur America es tan racista?
Larry
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:Pine.SUN.3.96.991025121253.17218U-100000@kira...
> Jaime:
> ?Porque sera que la extrema izquierda de Sur America es tan racista?
> Larry
A quien te refieres como la "extrema izquierda", Larry? No entiendo tu
comentario.
JSP
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:3814A42C...@home.com...
> Robert,
> As I said before, I'm only commenting on how names
> especially Indian names, can change over time. I'm not
> commenting on anything else.
No, Kip! What you are "commenting" about is how NORTH-AMERICAN INDIAN names
can change, you actually know NOTHING about Puerto Rico or how any
non-existant "Taino" population may have received, adopted, or changed their
names! I'm sure that someone may appreciate your efforts to enlighten us,
but taken in CONTEXT to the problem at hand, the so-called Tainos, many of
your insights into the North-American Indian community ideosyncrasies are no
help at all, and only serve to promote MORE confusion.
Please stick to the CONTEXT of this line, THE SO-CALLED "LOST" TAINO TRIBES
OF PUERTO RICO!!!
Thanks!
JSP
Golem
you've just proven us right once again...
You Reconstructaínos keep evading the main point - where's the evidence, my friend?
RAUL
Guarionex Delgado wrote:
> you waste time
>
> Golem wrote:
>
> > Let's get a few things straight here:
> >
> > We have stated what is considered a historical fact - that the Taino indians of
> > the Caribbean Islands of Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica, and Puerto Rico, have been
> > EXTINCT for CENTURIES. We have also repeatedly asked you, in public, to
> > demonstrate your questionable claims - that you are indeed "true Tainos", that
> > somehow (and somewhere) have survived through the ages, unseen and undetected
> > for centuries, in an Island with one of the highest population densities in the
> > whole world.
> >
--
J. Vaquer Jr.
<r.falc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>tostones
It is my understanding that bananas, like sugar cane and coffee, were
actually imported to the New World after the Discovery Era. That would
make tostones a later development.
Of course, we may be excused for considering our exquisite cuisine
more deeply rooted in our pre-Columbian lore than it actually is.
After all, I'm sure that more that a few Italians would be shocked to
learn that their vaunted pasta heritage is a peninsular version of
Chinese cuisine retrieved by Marco Polo; that their tomatoes are most
definitely of Mexican origin; and that potatoes, long regarded a
traditional staple of Irish fare, are 'inexplicably' original from the
Incan civilization.
Oh, and of course: our own arroz con pollo/cabro/res, malangas,
achiotes, aguacates, serenatas, gazpachos, funche, all sorts of beans
and what have you are all based on foreign staples, which means they
weren't available to Taínos before Spaniards ran over the Island.
Okay, I'll grant you that goat stew technically might have preceded
European settlements: after all, Vicente Yañez Pinzón released them
and sailed on to Perú years before Ponce de León and Sotomayor landed
with their settlement parties.
I just wonder what Taínos made of such ornery beasts, considering the
greatest land mammals known to them at that time (not counting humans)
were the jutías.
_______________________________________
J. Vaquer Jr.
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:3814...@news.dandy.net...
>>>the Delgado-Colon family are the surviving members of the Taino tribe of
Turabo.<<<
If this statement is true, then unless this family gets involved in some
serious inbreeding, the "Taino Tribe of Turabo" will go the way of the
Dodo!!! How can a "Tribe" survive with just ONE family???
JSP
Kip King
As far as I can tell only European and European descended people are
concerned with the continuity of surnames. The only reason I got off the
subject of the thread is because you and some others speak in vague
generalities about Indians. Perhaps I can start another thread about how
all Mediterranean people (and Mediterranean descended people) such as
Spanish, Greeks and Italians have enough African ancestry that they are
the only non African people that have some people that get sickle cell
anemia. The Greeks and Romans took slaves from both Europe and Africa.
These people never went home they were just absorbed into the local
population. Aseop was a black Greek born to captured black Africans. I
mentioned all this before and you didn't comment on it. Why not?
Kip
Golem
centuries-long presence of the Moors, North Africans with Arabic and Negroid
characteristics, and from which a large number of the current Southern Spaniards
descend. More "recently", Italy's colonial adventures in Ethiopia also resulted
in many intermarriages.
I guess the reason that has not become a matter of discussion is because there
aren't any raving lunatics trying to pass themselves off as "real whatevers",
other than the reconstructainos.
As for me, I'm a Puerto Rican, an American citizen, and I couldn't care less about
a person's amount of melanine..
Saludos
RAUL
Kip King wrote:
--
Kip King
themselves off as "pure blooded" white people what with all their
seeming concept that Indians need to be "pure" to be "real". Like ALL
other races Indians have absorbed people from other races.
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> I thought it might be because JSP and some others wanted to pass
> themselves off as "pure blooded" white people what with all their
> seeming concept that Indians need to be "pure" to be "real". Like ALL
> other races Indians have absorbed people from other races.
Excuse me, Kip, but WHO THE FUCK is trying to pass himself off as "pure
blooded" white people??? That has been precisely the topic of ALL these
messages, that only IDIOTS WITH NO SENSE OF REALITY would try to pass
themselves of a "pure direct descendants" of ANY race, more so as members of
a NONEXISTENT Indian Tribe which DISAPPEARED more than 400 years ago.
Apparently your "victim" complex leads you to read things according to the
tinted glasses with which you view EVERYTHING that comes from "the evil
white man who speaks with a forked tongue"!!! I suggest that you pay CLOSER
ATTENTION to what is written here and you put aside your cloak of victimhood
for a while. Maybe you'll understand better.!!!
JSP
Kip King
Sorry is I misread you. I don't think of myself as a victim. By the way,
how much non white blood do you have?
Kip
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> JSP,
> Sorry is I misread you. I don't think of myself as a victim. By the way,
> how much non white blood do you have?
Don't know, don't care and don't matter! I don't spend sleepless nights
trying to calculate PERCENTAGES so that I can call myself half Spanish, one
quarter Inca, one fourth Atlantean and one eighth Klingon. There once was a
great philosopher who gave me many teachings and I have tried to live up to
his example. He said; "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam"!!! To
this day I still eat all my spinach as a tribute to him!!!
JSP
Larry Daley
You should read a little more Cuban history. For instance the Taino
Guerrilla de Guantanamo that left the Spanish side and joined with Maceo
in the War of 1895-1898. Or Jose Marti's description of a Taina in the
last pages of his diary.
Larry
On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon wrote:
> Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
Kip King
Perhaps I misworded my question. Do you acknowledge having any black
african ancestry? I'm not asking for pecentages.
Kip
"Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
>
> Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
Kip King
Perhaps I misworded my question. Do you acknowledge having any black
J. Vaquer Jr.
>JSP,
>As far as I can tell only European and European descended people are concerned with the continuity of surnames.
Considering the sprawling dynasties founded throughout the Middle and
Far East (the Khans, the Chins... and did I forget to mention the
ibnSaud and the everlasting political hegemony of the Ghandis in
India?), and the even higher importance that Oriental societies (such
as Japan and pre-Mao China) attach to family prestige, noble or regal
descent, ancestor worship and the notion of klan 'face', I'd say
surname continuity, an aspect of kith and kin bonding as an expression
of virtual immortality, is a far more widespread concern than simply
European. The Testaments are brimming with genealogical renderings
that may not portray surnames are we're used to in Western and New
World civilizations, yet convey the same sense of pride in ancestry:
the famous 'begats' that show several lineage versions hying from Adam
and Eve through Noah and Abraham down to Jesus, not forgetting the
royal houses of David and Saoul in between.
Pre-Columbian New World dynasties, particularly in the Inca Empire,
were definitely family based and could ultimately be traced through
royal house names. Our own Taínos, albeit not known to bear surnames
the same way we carry them, were nevertheless dynastically linked;
their klans (not necessarily limited to villages) and family alliances
or betrayals have come down to us in historical accounts.
In point of fact, tracing klan names to their origins as marriage and
blood ties before coalescing into polities in order to secure
property, you may find this family pride as deeply seated in African
and post-arboreal pre-Columbian cultures as you would in European
nations. I would think that an essential element of all social bonding
is family pride; and any kith and kin name that may preserve and
convey these bonds would serve the same purpose of heralding
everlasting joint pride as our own European surname traditions.
As to how does all of the above conceivably relate to the subject at
hand, our New World history has shown us that European surnames were
either imposed on families held as chattel (slaves) or betimes adopted
by non-descendants for reasons of their own. Hey, throughout this New
World we even have a history of subtly or drastically changing
original surnames in order to break away from Old World ties or even
adapt to New World cultural mainstreams. Nevertheless, once a surname
is adopted, most New World denizens tend to attach great significance
to its endurance over generations.
__________________________________________________
J. Vaquer Jr.
Kip King
line. Since my own mother is Delaware-Muncie rather than Cherokee, I was
adopted into a clan. Usually this would have been the Ani-Wahya (Wolf
People or Wolf Clan). So many Cherokee have been adopted into the Wolf
Clan that Wolf Clan people outnumber the other six Cherokee clans
combined. However my father's father was Wolf Clan so I was adopted into
the Ani-Wodi (Paint People or Clan or Red Paint People or Clan).
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> Perhaps I misworded my question. Do you acknowledge having
> any black African ancestry? I'm not asking for percentages.
It's quite possible I do, although I have not found any "black" ancestors
directly in my bloodline, just some uncles and cousins, but we have a saying
in Puerto Rico; Everybody has either some "Dinga" or you have some
"Mandinga". (Dinga and Mandinga being African tribes). And like I said, I
don't lose any sleep trying to prove I don't, nor do I try to prove I do!!!
What's it to you??? You want to prove me a racist, boy??? My problem with
these pseudo-Tainos is NOT that they are Tainos, but rather that THEY ARE
NOT!!! I have nothing against ANYONE who is a member of a "different" race
from mine, I have SERIOUS problems with ANYONE who tries to PASS HIMSELF OFF
AS WHAT HE ISN'T in order to obtain SPECIAL STATUS!!!
For example, I have nothing against Indians, and I have nothing against the
disabled, but if I find out that a group of Indians is trying to get
"disabled parking permits" because "all Indians have been disabled by the
white man", I SURE AS HELL AM GOING TO GET PISSED!!!
Get the point???
JSP
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
Larry Daley
Jose Barriero has an article on Cuban Tainos with abundant photographs in
the journal "Native Americas" Spring 1996 vol 13 number 7 (inside front
cover and pp 38-47).
Larry
On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Kip King wrote:
> RFL,
> This is linked as a reply to my post but I have no idea what you're
> talking about. I don't know of any tribe in Caguas.
> Kip
Kip King
Thank for the reply. I'm not a boy. I'm a forty year old man. I'm not
trying to prove anything. I am Indian and I do have a disabled parking
permit because I have multiple sclerosis not because I'm Indian. It gets
me pissed to when people, any people, get permits that don't need them
or park illegally in disabled spots.
Kip
Kip King
Kip King
Thanks.
Kip
Corporate Chicken
> comentario.
Larry, oh.
Comentario.
hehehehe
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
Kip King wrote in message <38168DF6...@home.com>...
Kip King
You're asking the wrong person. I know nothing about this. Ask whoever
puts out the "Taino web page" or possibly Larry Daley.
Kip
jrv
>Guaynabo
>Naguabo
>Yabucoa
>Canovanas
>When eating ask for "Ayaka" (Ahh-yah-khah)
>almohabana.
>tostones
>etc
>etc
****Porque no escribes la lista de los alimentos "tainos"en PR......pero antes otra clasesita de gratis!!!!
should be considered the most original because island chefs, starting essentially from zero after the savage decimation of the indigenous Tainos, were able to concot an entirely new roster of dishes with foods brought in from all points of the compass subjected to an essentially Spanish culinary point of view"... Whether you knew or not, what you and I grew up eating owes quite a bit to Andalucía, Cataluña, and Africa. Sin menospreciar las aportaciones francesas/corsas/ italianas. Sorry, no room for Taínos here, or Siboneyes, or any other indigenous group, quite unfortunate, but it is a fact!
Find out a bit about more info. on your relative's past, and you'll see how impossible it would be for him to have a "taíno" background when you and I, and most likely him, descend from people that came here "the other day"... If the last acknowledged contact with anything resembling an indigenous person was towards the end of the 17th Century, or perhaps even 1800 (and even those contacts are based on hearsay and it is not even clear if they even were indians!)... and at one point along the way there were a couple thousands people in the entire island... and we descend from people that came during 19th century... Well, you get the picture...
- Antonio Machado
jrv
Raymond Falcon-Lugo wrote in message
<7v1ibv$200$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>oops, it is "almojabana" not "almohabana". ;-)
>It "sounds" Taino.
>
>
>
>
jrv
>
>It would be interesting to analyze this taino thing from a sociological point of
>view. Lie detection test would be interesting. They will not prove that those who
>claim to be tainos are actually so, but at least we will know if they really
>believe what they are saying. Also, tainos have certain physical traits, it
>would be interesting to note of these tainos look like tainos, whites, blacks or
>semites [arabs and Mediterranean jews]. Finally, I would like to see genealogies.
>
>From what I gather, these groups are saying that not all tainos died, that many of
>them adopted Spanish names, kept a low profile and somehow survived. Could be?
>Perhaps! After all, the historical records we all rely upon were written by
>Spaniards who may have had good reasons to hide the existence of taino communities
>in the island.... Don't know, but, I would like to see facts not mere opinions,
>and since these taino groups are the one advocating a new historical viewpoint, I
>would like to see their evidence first....
population of Puerto Rico, for example, is not as mixed as people believe.
Hell, the whole mestizaje thing is quite wrongly perceived in my opinion... Great
beautiful sounding myths, and half truths, and misperceptions in there... A
great Pandora's Box that we should explore in another thread, probably some place
else...Bro, try as you may, the indigenous cultures of the Caribbean are gone, there are no ifs and buts about that.
1.) El censo de 1530 (a mitad del siglo 16) contó a 1,148 tainos-¿Cierto o no cierto?*
2.)En 1539, Carlos V de España le dió la liberta a todos los tainos-¿Es esto correcto?
3.)En este mismo siglo (alrededor del año 1518) se comienza a traer esclavos africanos a Puerto Rico- ¿cierto?
4.)Durante los siglos 16 y 17 Puerto Rico estaba casi sin gente.....-¿Cierto o no cierto?
5.) En el 1775 (a finales del siglo 18) solamente habían 70,000* en Puerto Rico- ¿Es esto correcto?A finales de este mismo siglo España empieza a buscar que más personas se radiquen en Puerto Rico.
6.)Ahora veamos lo que sucedio en el siglo 19.En 1800 habian 155,426 personas. En 1827 habian alrededor de 323,838. En 1834 habitaban la isla alrededor de 357,086 personas. En 1860 habian 583,181. A finales del siglo 19 (1899) habian casi un millón de personas* (algunos piensan que habian mucho más de eso, yo me incluyo en el grupo)
7.) En otras palabras la población de Puerto Rico creció enormemente durante el siglo 19. Entre 1800 y 1900 la población explotó de unos 150,00 y "pico" a un millón.* ¿Como esto sucedió? ¿Milagro divino? ¿O inmigración? ¿Inmigración de quienes?
8.)En el 1803 Españoles y Franceses salierón de los Estados Unidos y se radicarón en Puerto Rico. Debido a la venta de Luisiana por los franceses a los EU. Lo mismo sucedió con Florida en el 1819. Estas personas querian vivir en un país catolico. Franceses huyeron de Haiti y se radicaron en Puerto Rico.
9.)Muchos españoles y sus decendientes llegarón a Puerto Rico tratando de escapar los problemas en los paises centro y sudamericanos que se encontraban en plena lucha por sus independencias. Al mismo tiempo seguian llegando gente de las Islas Canarías, de Corcega, Mallorca, ect.
10.) En los 1840s trabajadores chinos se establecierón en la isla. -¿Cuantos de ustedes sabian
esto? Trabajadores Italianos, alemanes, irlandeses, escoseces llegarón en esos años. También algunos lebaneses.
11.)Gente de muchos lugares en Europa llegarón a Puerto Rico durante todo el siglo, incluyendo Dinamarca, Holanda, Portugal y hasta de Rusia. ¿Interesante? ¿Porque esto nunca se cuenta?
12.) Durante el siglo 20 miles de estadounidenses y cubanos se radicarón en Puerto Rico y muchos de ellos se han casado con los puertorriqueños. ¿Esto nunca se cuenta?
13.)En el censo de 1950 en Puerto Rico (cuando miles de Boricuas viajaban en la guagua aerea a los EU) 80% de la gente fue clasificada como blanca.
14.)El mismo año, el censo en los EU reportó casi 250,000 Boricuas en la ciudad de Nueva York. De ellos 92% eran blancos. En el censo de 1960 (de 612,000 personas de origen puertorriqueño en NY) clasificó el 96% como blancos. ¿Como nos explicamos entonces lo de la supuesta nación mulata/mestiza?
****Muchas de las cifras numericas son estimados cercanos a los numeros reales. Aunque yo personalmente creo que la población de Puerto Rico era mucho más grande a finales del siglo 19.
PS Luego le doy más información, pues con esto tienen para pensar un largo rato. Ya saben si pueden comprobar que toda esta información es falsa, entonces hablamos.
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
Good night. This will end my search. Losing too much time in futile
"search".
Kip King wrote in message <38187D30...@home.com>...
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
jrv wrote in message <3818...@news.inch.com>...
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
our history!
========
THE END
========
Kip King wrote in message <3819094F...@home.com>...
>RFL,
>What made you think I would know where to find what you're looking for?
>Kip
Kip King
Luis Cruz
Luis desde Virginia
jrv
Luis Cruz wrote in message <38274D37...@vims.edu>...
Solo busquen el origen de muchos de los apellidos en la isla y veran que muchos son originarios del norte de la peninsula, aunque los puedes encontrar diseminados por otras areas.
Luis desde Virginia
