hispanic people of south america, worship Tonantzin
are we on same page?
Pls visit
http://www.awakenedwoman.com/tonantzin.htm
dear hispanic people of indian origin:
reclaim your ancestral civilization with joy. restore the great temple to
Tonantzin, the earth goddess.
Gurriato
"are we on same page?" <sayh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Cl1Zf.9696$9h5.2549@dukeread09...
You should know that Mexicans are a deeply religious people and most belong
to a church, or are supported by one. The most dominant religion is Aztec
Orthodox, a local form of worship very similat to Catholicism (except that
Catholics long ago dismissed the concept of the world being flat). Aztec
Orthodox congregations may also smoke cigars and drink tequila in church.
This religion dates back to the early XVII century and local believers will
proudly tell you that one of the two robbers crucified next to Christ was
in fact from Tijuana.
Many devout practioners will regularly follow the pilgrim trail that leads
to the holy shrine of Santa Cruda, near Guadalajara. It was here, back in
1537, that two shepherds on their way home from a local cantina claimed to
have seen a vision hovering in the field ahead. So intense was the power of
this apparition that both men fell in a deep sleep, waking the next next
morning with severe headaches, nausea, vomiting and blurred vision.
One of this men, San Ofabich González, virgen y mártir, was beatified by
Pope Paul in 1617, canonized by Pope Gregory XV in 1687 and featured
posthumously on an episode of "This is Your Life" in 1995. A great friend of
the poor local Indians, San Ofabich took particular interest in young single
women and could often be seen visiting their homes at all hours of the day
and night, armed only with a Bible and a bottle sacramental red. Here he
would preach the Gospel and offer to lay hands and those who keeled before
him.
Saludos
FRAY GERUNDIO DE CAMPAZAS
RAY S. ELIZONDO
"are we on same page?" <sayh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Cl1Zf.9696$9h5.2549@dukeread09...
>
How can you call Indians / Hispanic people.
Hispanics in south america, are only those from Spaniard descent.
You might find a few Indians that speak Spanish, but that does not make them
Hispanics.
You can compare this with the Indians in the US. most of them speak English,
but this does not make them Anglos.
And the same goes for all European immigrants in the US. French, Germans,
Irish, Italians, etc. they can not be called Anglos, that is why they
adopted the name "Americans" which is also wrong. "Americans" are only the
natives of the American Continent.
BTW Who is Tonantzin? it sounds like a Buda name.
David Eduardo
"RAY S. ELIZONDO" <eliz...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:9WkZf.2933$mu2...@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net...
>
>
> "are we on same page?" <sayh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Cl1Zf.9696$9h5.2549@dukeread09...
>>
>> Pls visit
>> http://www.awakenedwoman.com/tonantzin.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> dear hispanic people of indian origin:
>> reclaim your ancestral civilization with joy. restore the great temple to
>> Tonantzin, the earth goddess.
> How can you call Indians / Hispanic people.
>
> Hispanics in south america, are only those from Spaniard descent.
"Hispanic" is a term little used in South America except in terms like
"Hispanoamérica" and such, referring to a Spanish heritage.
"Hispanic" in the US is a government-invented term born of convenience and
inseminated by EEO and the Civil Rights movements of the 70's.
> You might find a few Indians that speak Spanish, but that does not make
> them Hispanics.
In most parts of the Andean zone from Ecuador to Bolivia, indigenous peoples
are bilingual, speaking both Spanish and either Quechua or Aymará. We are
talking about maybe 30 million people here, not "a few."
> You can compare this with the Indians in the US. most of them speak
> English, but this does not make them Anglos.
Since "Hispanic" is not a race, you point is invalid.
> And the same goes for all European immigrants in the US. French, Germans,
> Irish, Italians, etc. they can not be called Anglos, that is why they
> adopted the name "Americans" which is also wrong.
Actually, "Anglo" comes from a Germanic tribe thast invaded England. In
today's usage, however historically incorrect, "Anglos" are white, northern
Europeans.
>"Americans" are only the natives of the American Continent.
Maqybe in 1500, they were. Today, "Americans" in English refers to US
citizens. "Americano" in Spanish is anyone who lives in t the Western
Hemisphere.
RAY S. ELIZONDO
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
news:70EZf.68031$dW3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "RAY S. ELIZONDO" <eliz...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:9WkZf.2933$mu2...@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>>
>> "are we on same page?" <sayh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Cl1Zf.9696$9h5.2549@dukeread09...
>>>
>>> Pls visit
>>> http://www.awakenedwoman.com/tonantzin.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> dear hispanic people of indian origin:
>>> reclaim your ancestral civilization with joy. restore the great temple
>>> to Tonantzin, the earth goddess.
>> How can you call Indians / Hispanic people.
>>
>> Hispanics in south america, are only those from Spaniard descent.
>
> "Hispanic" is a term little used in South America except in terms like
> "Hispanoamérica" and such, referring to a Spanish heritage.
Iberoamerica, was used before Latin America, and Hispano America.
>
> "Hispanic" in the US is a government-invented term born of convenience and
> inseminated by EEO and the Civil Rights movements of the 70's.
Just the same, the US, created Latino, when they could not call all Central
and South American immigrants, that started coming after WWII, "Mexicans"
Before WWII a Latin person was an Italian, and the US citizens, called them
Degos, you can still find in San Francisco, Latin Quarters.(where many
Italians settled) and on the movies, 1930 - 1940 the famous Latin Lover was
Rodolfo Valentino.
Chicano was an invention of the Mexicans living in the US, who were rejected
by Mexico and also by the US, they had no roots, they did not want to be
called Mexicans so they created their own Chicano.
In the 60s, Mexicans did not like to be called Chicanos or Latinos.
So once again a new name was created, Hispanic, in relation to the Spanish
language.
>> You might find a few Indians that speak Spanish, but that does not make
>> them Hispanics.
>
> In most parts of the Andean zone from Ecuador to Bolivia, indigenous
> peoples are bilingual, speaking both Spanish and either Quechua or Aymará.
> We are talking about maybe 30 million people here, not "a few."
The fact that the "natives" of the Americas, speak Spanish, does not make
them Hispanics.
>
>> You can compare this with the Indians in the US. most of them speak
>> English, but this does not make them Anglos.
>
> Since "Hispanic" is not a race, you point is invalid.
Indian is not a race either, but is has been used as a race, for many years.
>
>> And the same goes for all European immigrants in the US. French, Germans,
>> Irish, Italians, etc. they can not be called Anglos, that is why they
>> adopted the name "Americans" which is also wrong.
>
> Actually, "Anglo" comes from a Germanic tribe thast invaded England. In
> today's usage, however historically incorrect, "Anglos" are white,
> northern Europeans.
>
>>"Americans" are only the natives of the American Continent.
>
> Maqybe in 1500, they were. Today, "Americans" in English refers to US
> citizens. "Americano" in Spanish is anyone who lives in t the Western
> Hemisphere.
>
>
"Americano" in Spanish was invented by the Mexicans, when they referred to a
citizen of the US, (but only if they were white and blond not the black
Americans) then Mexicans, also invented "Gringo", After General Pershing
Army went after Pancho Villa, and since the uniform of the army was green,
they started saying "Green-Go" Grin-go.
So now you can see how name have evolved in the USA,
And this is not the end, if you come to San Francisco, where the Irish
community is large, do not called an Irish "Anglo" they do not like it.
Gurriato
> "Americano" in Spanish was invented by the Mexicans, when they referred to
> a citizen of the US, (but only if they were white and blond not the black
> Americans) then Mexicans, also invented "Gringo", After General Pershing
> Army went after Pancho Villa, and since the uniform of the army was green,
> they started saying "Green-Go" Grin-go.
>
> So now you can see how name have evolved in the USA,
Eso es otra de las típicas leyendas urbanas de los Yunaites, o sea, puritica
mamada pocha.
La palabra gringo se lleva usando en España desde el siglo XVIII por lo
menos. En Argentina se usaba mucho antes de la época de Pancho Villa. A ver
si los pochos os informáis mejor antes de poneros a pontificar ex cathedra.
> And this is not the end, if you come to San Francisco, where the Irish
> community is large, do not called an Irish "Anglo" they do not like it.
Si no les gusta, que se jodan.
These leprechauns are usually called "Paddies", but I call them "Freckled
Inebriated Potato Heads"
Do you think that this name is too long?
GURRIATEMBERG
David Eduardo
>
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:70EZf.68031$dW3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> So once again a new name was created, Hispanic, in relation to the Spanish
> language.
Actually, the term came into usage in the late 70's, prior to the 1980
Census. It was coined by the government, and is not necessarily the
preferred term by Spanish dominant Hispanics in the US.
>
>
>>> You might find a few Indians that speak Spanish, but that does not make
>>> them Hispanics.
>>
>> In most parts of the Andean zone from Ecuador to Bolivia, indigenous
>> peoples are bilingual, speaking both Spanish and either Quechua or
>> Aymará. We are talking about maybe 30 million people here, not "a few."
>
> The fact that the "natives" of the Americas, speak Spanish, does not make
> them Hispanics.
In the US, it does. The definition is so broad and vague on purpose. Just as
"José Liberman," the Mexican-born son of Polish immigrants is considered
Hispanic. Or former president Fujimoi of Peru. Or Carlos Menem in Argentina
or Assad Bucaram or Jaime Nebot in Ecuador. All, to the US government are
Hispanics, despite being Polish, Japanese, Lebanese or Syrian.
>>
>>> You can compare this with the Indians in the US. most of them speak
>>> English, but this does not make them Anglos.
>>
>> Since "Hispanic" is not a race, you point is invalid.
>
> Indian is not a race either, but is has been used as a race, for many
> years.
The US Census considers it a race... black, white, Asian, Indian
(indigenous, native American). The US Census does not consider "Hispanic" a
race.
>>
> "Americano" in Spanish was invented by the Mexicans, when they referred to
> a citizen of the US, (but only if they were white and blond not the black
> Americans) then Mexicans, also invented "Gringo", After General Pershing
> Army went after Pancho Villa, and since the uniform of the army was green,
> they started saying "Green-Go" Grin-go.
Actually, "gringo" probably comes from the term "griego" or "Greek" used in
Spanin to denote any foreigner (c.f. "El Greco" the painter). It's first
literary use is in the epic poem Martin fierro from argentina, not Mexico.
You are perpetuating urban legends that have not an ounce of proof to thier
credit.
The term "Americano" is, similarly, not Mexican in origin, and can be found
in a great deal of literature from the late 1770's to the 1820's as the
nations of the Americas sought independence from Spain.
Most Mexicans, prior to the late 1800's, had never seen an "American" in any
case... let alone a black one.
>
> So now you can see how name have evolved in the USA,
>
> And this is not the end, if you come to San Francisco, where the Irish
> community is large, do not called an Irish "Anglo" they do not like it.
My last name is Irish and I could care less... the term is currently very
vague in its usage.
Gurriato
> In the US, it does. The definition is so broad and vague on purpose. Just
> as "José Liberman," the Mexican-born son of Polish immigrants is
> considered Hispanic. Or former president Fujimoi of Peru. Or Carlos Menem
> in Argentina or Assad Bucaram or Jaime Nebot in Ecuador. All, to the US
> government are Hispanics, despite being Polish, Japanese, Lebanese or
> Syrian.
Ethnic categories are not necessarily based on race.
The term Hispanic is based on cultural and historic grounds.
> Actually, "gringo" probably comes from the term "griego" or "Greek" used
> in Spanin to denote any foreigner (c.f. "El Greco" the painter). It's
> first literary use is in the epic poem Martin fierro from argentina, not
> Mexico. You are perpetuating urban legends that have not an ounce of proof
> to thier credit.
So are you. The word was extensively used before Martin Fierro. For
instance, it appears in Manuel Breton de los Herreros' "Elena," a drama
presented for the first time in Madrid in 1834. "Que es eso? Contais en
gringo?" (What is this? Are you using gringo language?)
The word gringo originally did not mean USA but foreigner in general. This
is the current use of the word in Argentina and other countries. Even
Spaniards can be gringos! An example of "gringo's" early use is in
Bustamante's 1841 edition of Francisco Javier Alegre's Historia de la
Compañia de Jesus en la Nueva España, in which he explains that the Spanish
soldiers sent to Mexico in 1767 by Charles III were called "gringos" by the
Mexican people.
There are numerous old references to the word "gringo" in the New World
travel accounts, in dictionaries, and in Spanish-American literature. For
example, two early 19th century travelers, the German Johan Jakob von
Tschudi and the Frenchman Arseve Isabelle, both testify to the use of the
word. In his travels in Peru during the years 1838-1842, Tschudi recounts
how Peruvian women "prefer marrying a gringo to a paisanito."
In his diaries, Isabelle complains about insulting names that travelers were
called, such as "gringo." As for dictionaries, Diccionario (1846) of Vicente
Salva y Perez, list "gringo" as a nickname given a foreigner who speaks an
unintelligible language.
> The term "Americano" is, similarly, not Mexican in origin, and can be
> found in a great deal of literature from the late 1770's to the 1820's as
> the nations of the Americas sought independence from Spain.
>
> Most Mexicans, prior to the late 1800's, had never seen an "American" in
> any case... let alone a black one.
>>
>> So now you can see how name have evolved in the USA,
>>
>> And this is not the end, if you come to San Francisco, where the Irish
>> community is large, do not called an Irish "Anglo" they do not like it.
>
> My last name is Irish and I could care less... the term is currently very
> vague in its usage.
The Diccionario Castellano of 1787 noted that in Malaga "foreigners who have
a certain type of accent which keeps them from speaking Spanish easily and
naturally" were referred to as gringos. The origin of the word from "griego"
was somebody's speculation for which he offered no proof. I believe this is
bullshit (another urban legend if you prefer). The origin of the word is
simply not known.
You should know that in the XVIII century the term was used in Madrid
particularly for the Irish, who were numerous.
GURRIATO
David Eduardo
"Gurriato" <pata...@netnitco.net> wrote in message
news:1JSdnRmnXcOPV6rZ...@netnitco.net...
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:wxIZf.65486$Jd.1...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> In the US, it does. The definition is so broad and vague on purpose. Just
>> as "José Liberman," the Mexican-born son of Polish immigrants is
>> considered Hispanic. Or former president Fujimoi of Peru. Or Carlos Menem
>> in Argentina or Assad Bucaram or Jaime Nebot in Ecuador. All, to the US
>> government are Hispanics, despite being Polish, Japanese, Lebanese or
>> Syrian.
>
> Ethnic categories are not necessarily based on race.
As indicated, the term is not even ethnic... it is losely cultural, based on
a government need to group all persons with a history of usage of the
spanish language or having lived in a ´predominantly Spanish speaking
nation.
>
> The term Hispanic is based on cultural and historic grounds.
Actually, it is cultural and historic only insofar as it is geopolitically
linked to Spaninish speaking nations. The term was invented or, actually,
borrowed, due to a need to identify what we know now as Hispanics for
purposes of compliance with civil rights and EEO legislation. Pteviously,
all hispanics who did not self identify as Black or some other race were
considered white, and this did not allow the government and government
agencies to set quotas, enforce laws, etc.
>
>
>> Actually, "gringo" probably comes from the term "griego" or "Greek" used
>> in Spanin to denote any foreigner (c.f. "El Greco" the painter). It's
>> first literary use is in the epic poem Martin fierro from argentina, not
>> Mexico. You are perpetuating urban legends that have not an ounce of
>> proof to thier credit.
>
> So are you. The word was extensively used before Martin Fierro. For
> instance, it appears in Manuel Breton de los Herreros' "Elena," a drama
> presented for the first time in Madrid in 1834. "Que es eso? Contais en
> gringo?" (What is this? Are you using gringo language?)
Thank you for the research. I did not know this, despite fairly extensive
literature studies some years back. Your proof is far more conclusive.
Do you happen to know when the first instance in American ("Las Américas")
literature occured?
> The word gringo originally did not mean USA but foreigner in general.
> This is the current use of the word in Argentina and other countries.
Absolutely. It even has a meaning indicating fairness of complection. A
friend and classmate in Ecuador was "El Gringo" Mantilla, whose family had
come from Spain 5 or 6 generations before and who published the leading
local paper. He, simply, had light colored hair.
> Even Spaniards can be gringos! An example of "gringo's" early use is in
> Bustamante's 1841 edition of Francisco Javier Alegre's Historia de la
> Compañia de Jesus en la Nueva España, in which he explains that the
> Spanish soldiers sent to Mexico in 1767 by Charles III were called
> "gringos" by the Mexican people.
>
> There are numerous old references to the word "gringo" in the New World
> travel accounts, in dictionaries, and in Spanish-American literature. For
> example, two early 19th century travelers, the German Johan Jakob von
> Tschudi and the Frenchman Arseve Isabelle, both testify to the use of the
> word. In his travels in Peru during the years 1838-1842, Tschudi recounts
> how Peruvian women "prefer marrying a gringo to a paisanito."
>
> In his diaries, Isabelle complains about insulting names that travelers
> were called, such as "gringo." As for dictionaries, Diccionario (1846) of
> Vicente Salva y Perez, list "gringo" as a nickname given a foreigner who
> speaks an unintelligible language.
Probably the best definition of the times would be "outsider," would you not
say?
>
>
>> The term "Americano" is, similarly, not Mexican in origin, and can be
>> found in a great deal of literature from the late 1770's to the 1820's as
>> the nations of the Americas sought independence from Spain.
>>
>> Most Mexicans, prior to the late 1800's, had never seen an "American" in
>> any case... let alone a black one.
>>>
>>> So now you can see how name have evolved in the USA,
>>>
>>> And this is not the end, if you come to San Francisco, where the Irish
>>> community is large, do not called an Irish "Anglo" they do not like it.
>>
>> My last name is Irish and I could care less... the term is currently very
>> vague in its usage.
>
> The Diccionario Castellano of 1787 noted that in Malaga "foreigners who
> have a certain type of accent which keeps them from speaking Spanish
> easily and naturally" were referred to as gringos. The origin of the word
> from "griego" was somebody's speculation for which he offered no proof. I
> believe this is bullshit (another urban legend if you prefer). The origin
> of the word is simply not known.
I think if you go back further you will find that, even in Latin literature
of the Empire, you will find a tendencey to use the term "Greek"
indiscriminatly to define anyone not Arab but fromt he eastern
Mediterranian. It has been a long time since I read Latin, but for some
reason Pliny the Elder comes to mind as one reference. I don't think this is
urban legend, as the etymology appears sound.
>
> You should know that in the XVIII century the term was used in Madrid
> particularly for the Irish, who were numerous.
Considering the historic relationship of the Celtic peoples between NW Spain
and Ireland, this does not surprise me.
Very interesting post, and your cites are helpful for further study and
quite fascinating as well.
RAY S. ELIZONDO
--
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
news:zsRZf.68102$dW3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
We all learn from this discussion in the Internet,
But my theories are from experience in life.
I will tell you a short story that I personally experienced.
It took me 40 years to learn the meaning of ONE word.
While visiting a small town in Texas, I was 14 years old, WWII was still
going on, I mingled with Mexican/American boys my age, the inner tubes of
the tires were made of pure rubber, so I had learned in Mexico, to make
slingshots, with a piece of a branch in the form of a Y, and a piece of
leather from old shoes. So when they saw me doing it, they ask me in
Spanish, por favor agame una "nigasura" a mi.
In 1985, I was with a friend at a bar, he was born in Texas, and when I told
him this story, he laughed, and said to me: in Texas a slingshot was
called, Niger Shooter, that is why the boys were asking me to make a
"NIGASURA"
You will never find this explanations in books, and like this I have had
more experiences that I can tell you, like when we went to the Bus Depot,
1945, and my cousin who lives in Brownsville TX, could not go with me to the
bathroom, his skins was so dark he had to go to the bathroom with the sign
"Colored" the other bathroom said: "Whites".
and when my mom´s friend she was Black from Nicaragua, buy his baby boy was
white, because the father (which was not with us) was a white Mexican. So
the driver, took the baby from the mother, and gave it to my mom in the
front of the bus.
Gurriato
.>> You should know that in the XVIII century the term was used in Madrid
>> particularly for the Irish, who were numerous.
>
> Considering the historic relationship of the Celtic peoples between NW
> Spain and Ireland, this does not surprise me.
>
Another urban legend, my friend.
The Spanish Celts originated from the the largest and most extensive of the
Celtic populations, the Gauls in central and western Europe. I don't believe
there is any evidence that they came sailing from Ireland. The relations
between the Celtic tribes of the Iberian Peninsula and those from in
Ireland are imaginary, mostly due to the nationalistic fantasies of some
crazy Gallegos.
The Celts who were major players in the ancient world were the Gauls, who
controlled an area extending from France to Switzerland. It was the Gauls
who sacked Rome and later invaded Greece; it was also the Gauls that
migrated to Asia Minor to found their own, independent culture there, that
of the Galatians. Through invasion and migration, they spread into Spain and
later crossed the Alps into Italy and permanently settled the area south of
the Alps which the Romans then named, Cisalpine Gaul.
The Spanish Celts came across the Pyrenee Mountains. They are more related
to Vercingetorix that they are to St Patrick. Perhaps I should say "we are
more related" because my native land, la Vera de Plasencia was inhabited by
a tribe of Celts, the Bettons.
The Irish came to Spain in the XVIII century mostly because of the religious
intolerance of the Anglicans. Many aristocrats came to study in Spain. When
I was an Intern in Salamanca I lived for a while in a marvelous historical
building with a gorgeous arcaded patio named "Colegio de los Nobles
Irlandeses" (College of the Irish Noblemen). If you are interested have a
peek to the many pictures of the building in Internet. Many Irismen joined
the Army, there are many famous Spanish "caudillos" with Irish names: the
dictator Leopoldo O'donell, Weyler (the nasty Captain General of the Spanish
troops in Cuba), and many others. Some joined the rebel troops in the wars
of independence in South América, like the libertador of Nueva Extremadura
(a.k.a Chile) General Bernardo O'Higgins, Daniel Florencio O'Leary, etc.
You probably already now the story of the Irish soldiers of St. Patrick
Regiment who joined the Mexicans agaisnt the gringo invaders after
deserting the USA army.
In any case, it was a Spaniard, De Valera who libertated the Irish suffering
under the British yoke. Some even say that the so called "Black Irish" are
the descendants of Spanish sailors from the Armada who survived swimming to
Irish shores.
GURRIATO
.
Gurriato
> But my theories are from experience in life.
>
> I will tell you a short story that I personally experienced.
>
> It took me 40 years to learn the meaning of ONE word.
>
> While visiting a small town in Texas, I was 14 years old, WWII was still
> going on, I mingled with Mexican/American boys my age, the inner tubes of
> the tires were made of pure rubber, so I had learned in Mexico, to make
> slingshots, with a piece of a branch in the form of a Y, and a piece of
> leather from old shoes. So when they saw me doing it, they ask me in
> Spanish, por favor agame una "nigasura" a mi.
En España eso se llama un tirachinas. Una china es una piedra pequeña. Dice
el diccionario de la RAE:
tirachinas.
1. m. Horquilla con mango a cuyos extremos se unen los de una goma para
estirarla y disparar así piedrecillas, perdigones, etc.
I used to be a very good shot with the tirachinas when I was a child. I
hunted hundreds of tórtolas and tordos sitting in the encina trees with my
nigasura.
If a retire to my village in Extremadure I will again get me a tirachinas
to find lunch everyday.
> In 1985, I was with a friend at a bar, he was born in Texas, and when I
> told him this story, he laughed, and said to me: in Texas a slingshot was
> called, Niger Shooter, that is why the boys were asking me to make a
> "NIGASURA"
Since we are talking about urban legends and mispronunciation of foreing
words let me tell you that: Texans say that "ten-gallon" hat refers to how
much liquid (certainly not brains) such hats could carry in their crowns.
This story is wrong. So here is la neta: "Ten-gallon hat" is the result of
a linguistic mix-up. "Galón" is the Spanish word for "braid." or "ribbon".
Sargents in the army wear galones as insignia of rank. Some vaqueros wore as
many as ten braided hatbands on their sombreros, and those were called "ten
galón hats." English speakers heard gallon. Real cowboy hats came to Texas
from the Spanish via Mexico.
> You will never find this explanations in books, and like this I have had
> more experiences that I can tell you, like when we went to the Bus Depot,
> 1945, and my cousin who lives in Brownsville TX, could not go with me to
> the bathroom, his skins was so dark he had to go to the bathroom with the
> sign "Colored" the other bathroom said: "Whites".
It is curious the gringos called Blacks "Colored". Actually black is the
absence of colour.
> and when my mom´s friend she was Black from Nicaragua, buy his baby boy
> was white, because the father (which was not with us) was a white Mexican.
> So the driver, took the baby from the mother, and gave it to my mom in the
> front of the bus.
I read a similar story, an anecdote by the famous Spanish writter, Ramón J.
Sender, whe went to the USA in exile after the Spanish Incivil War and
worked as a professor of literature there. One day, visiting the South
West, he was sitting in a restaurant in the Bus Depot and a Mexican
mother and her thirsty child were denied entrance to purchase a soda, and
Sender left the goddamned joint in protest. Later he felt guilty for not
having done more of a big scandal about the cruel injustice. The year in
which this anecdote happened was probably very close to what ocurred to
you. Now I wonder whether you may have been the child described in Sender's
account.
Try to find the story, it must be somewhere in Internet. Having had a
similar experience the anecdote will be touching to you.
Saludos
GURRIATO
ElGaucho
"Gurriato"
>> While visiting a small town in Texas, I was 14 years old, WWII was still
>> going on, I mingled with Mexican/American boys my age, the inner tubes of
>> the tires were made of pure rubber, so I had learned in Mexico, to make
>> slingshots, with a piece of a branch in the form of a Y, and a piece of
>> leather from old shoes. So when they saw me doing it, they ask me in
>> Spanish, por favor agame una "nigasura" a mi.
>
> En España eso se llama un tirachinas. Una china es una piedra pequeña.
> Dice el diccionario de la RAE:
> tirachinas.
> 1. m. Horquilla con mango a cuyos extremos se unen los de una goma para
> estirarla y disparar así piedrecillas, perdigones, etc.
Creo que nunca escuché esa palabra: tirachinas. Nosostros la llamábamos
Hondas... que hacíamos de la misma manera....bueno, a veces las hacíamos con
una Horqueta de alambre y con gomas extensibles entrelazadas.
Claro, horquillas eran sujetadores de pelo que usaban las mujeres...Las
hondas precisaban horquetas.
Saludos,
Oscar
ElGaucho
"Gurriato"
>> While visiting a small town in Texas, I was 14 years old, WWII was still
>> going on, I mingled with Mexican/American boys my age, the inner tubes of
>> the tires were made of pure rubber, so I had learned in Mexico, to make
>> slingshots, with a piece of a branch in the form of a Y, and a piece of
>> leather from old shoes. So when they saw me doing it, they ask me in
>> Spanish, por favor agame una "nigasura" a mi.
>
> En España eso se llama un tirachinas. Una china es una piedra pequeña.
> Dice el diccionario de la RAE:
> tirachinas.
> 1. m. Horquilla con mango a cuyos extremos se unen los de una goma para
> estirarla y disparar así piedrecillas, perdigones, etc.
Creo que nunca escuché esa palabra: tirachinas. Nosostros la llamábamos
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote ...
>
> .>> You should know that in the XVIII century the term was used in Madrid
> >> particularly for the Irish, who were numerous.
> >
> > Considering the historic relationship of the Celtic peoples between NW
> > Spain and Ireland, this does not surprise me.
> >
>
> Another urban legend, my friend.
>
> The Spanish Celts originated from the the largest and most extensive of the
> Celtic populations, the Gauls in central and western Europe.
How may the following be explained?
Celtiberian language was Q-Celtic (like Goidelic), and not P-Celtic
like Gaulish (Mallory 1989, p. 106).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtiberian_language
Gurriato
<ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144703354.1...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> How may the following be explained?
>
> Celtiberian language was Q-Celtic (like Goidelic), and not P-Celtic
> like Gaulish (Mallory 1989, p. 106).
There are other theories defended for example by McCone (1996), linking
Goidelic and Brythonic together as an Insular Celtic sub-family, and Gaulish
and Celtiberian as a Continental Celtic sub-family.
According to this theory, the distinction of Q- and P-Celtic might have
occurred independently or areally. The proponents of the Insular Celtic
hypothesis point to other shared innovations among Insular Celtic languages,
including inflected prepositions, VSO word order, and the lenition of
intervocalic [m] to [?~], a nasalized voiced bilabial fricative (an
extremely rare sound).
There is, however, no assumption that the Continental Celtic languages
descend from a common "Proto-Continental Celtic" ancestor. Rather, the
Insular/Continental schemata usually considers Celtiberian the first branch
to split from Proto-Celtic, and the remaining group would later have split
into Gaulish and Insular Celtic.
It should also be taken into account that no Celtic language has survived in
Spain. The knowledge of the Celtic languages spoken there in ancient times
is rather sketchy, and therefore the clasification of Celtiberian is quite
speculative. A great deal of the speculation has been done by Gallego and
Asturian nationalists who fantasize about joining the league of present
Celtic tribes ( Irish, Bretons, etc) who are all P-Celtic, despite of the
fact that Asturias and Galicia have Latin languages. I have told many
Gallegos that they are no more Celtic than people from central France, but
they don't want to listen. Believe it or not, this P-Q thingy is of extreme
importance to members of the PNG ( Nationalist Party of Galicia) and it
defines their place in the Universe. Personally I don't fucking care.
Saludos
GURRIATO
Gurriato
"ranolki" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:4a2b0kF...@individual.net...
> "RAY S. ELIZONDO wrote
>
>>> in Texas a slingshot was called, Niger Shooter, that is why the boys
>>> were asking me to make a "NIGASURA"
>
> No. La palabra correcta es "nigger". Se dice "nigger shooter" (Niger es un
> río de África.)
> Si bien, hoy día los negros van vengándose y tratan a los hispanos como
> basura.
> What goes around comes around...;-)
> Gurrinefasto escribió:
>
>>If a retire to my village in Extremadure I will again get me a tirachinas
>>to find lunch everyday.
>
> Es dudoso que hoy por hoy el valentón, Gurriato, que derrochó su juventud
> matando y lisiando a unos cuantos pajaritos como "buen español", tenga
> bastante valor para disparar su tirachinas a nada más grande que un
> saltamontes. (Es cierto que lo comerá con una sopa de bellotas y un vaso
> de aquella orina eshhtremeña que se llama Frenegal...)
>
> el Gaucho escribió:
>
>>Creo que nunca escuché esa palabra: tirachinas. Nosostros la
>> >llamábamos Hondas...
>
> Muy típico, Maese Pampapalurdo.
> ¿No sabes que una honda es otra cosa?
>
> honda.
> (Del lat. funda).
> 1. f. Tira de cuero, o trenza de lana, cáñamo, esparto u otra materia
> semejante, para tirar piedras con violencia.
>
> p.ej.
>
> "Abentó el pedrero_, echar al viento la honda, que llama
> _pedrero_, como cierto cañoncito para tirar piedras." (Juan Ruiz)
>
> Es decir, "Sling" y no "slingshot" (que es un término norteamericano)
> (With a sling and a stone David smote the Philistine giant (1 Sam. 17:40,
> 49). There were 700 Benjamites who were so skilled in its use that with
> the left hand they "could sling stones at a hair breadth, and not miss"
> (Judg. 20:16; 1 Chr. 12:2). It was used by the Israelites in war (2 Kings
> 3:25).
>
> saludos
> ranolki
Esta arma mortífera recibe muchos otros nombres en los paises
hispanohablantes. Uno de los más comunes es tirabeque, como registra el
diccionario de la RAE:
tirabeque.
(Del cat. tirabec).
1. m. Guisante mollar.
2. m. Horquilla con mango, a los extremos de la cual se sujetan dos gomas
unidas por una badana, en la que se ponen piedrecillas o perdigones.
El diccionario también incorpora la palabra "tiragomas"
tiragomas.
1. m. tirachinas.
El frijoleramen, por razones que se ignoran, llaman "resortera" al
tirachinas, y así lo recoge el diccionario de la RAE:
resortera.
1. f. Méx. tirachinas.
Los australopitecinos del Coño Sur prefieren la plabra "gomera", según
asegura la acepción quinta de la palabra en el diccionario de la RAE
gomera
1. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la goma.
2. m. y f. Arg. y Bol. Persona que se dedica a la reparación y a la venta de
neumáticos de automóviles.
3. m. Am. Mer. Árbol que produce goma.
4. m. Arg. Árbol ornamental de la familia de las Moráceas, de copa ancha y
hojas de color verde luciente en la cara superior y más claro en la
inferior, oblongas, grandes, y con fuertes nervaduras amarillentas.
5. f. Arg. tirachinas.
Los nombres son innumerables entre las distintas tribus de la Piel de Toro
En la lengua beibol de Asturias: Gomeru, Tiragomes, Forcau, Estiragomes.
Extremadura: Tirador.
Las Palmas: Tiradera, Lanzadera.
Tenerife: Estiladera.
Pais Vasco: Tiragomak.
Salamanca: Tirichi
Resto del Pais: Gomero, Tiracantos, Tirachinas...
Portugal: Fisga...
En el Sudakistán: Biombo, Flecha, Gomera, Honda, Resortera, Cauchera,
Hulera, China, Tirapiedras, Cata...
He encontrado este artículo en la ENCICLOPÆDIA EXTREMENNICA, donde se
demuestra que el tirachinas es un invento extremeño:
--------------------------------------------------------
NACIMIENTO DEL TIRACHINAS
Después de muchas investigaciones y recopilaciones de información, no se ha
podido concretar el nacimiento del tirachinas en una fecha concreta, pero se
puede asegurar que este artilugio ya se usab
para cazar en la prehistoria en ciertas por las tribus betonas del norte
de Extremadura. Se han encontrado restos arqueológicos de horqueillas de
tirachinas en las excavaciones efectuadas en La Dehesa de Zamarril (Cáceres)
Probablemente los extremeños prehistóricos utilizaban el tirachinas para
matar algunas aves o animales pequeños como conejos, liebres, etc... Para
ello utilizaban una rama de árbol en forma de horquilla y de goma podrían
haber utilizado las tripas del cerdo de pata negra, que son muy elásticas y
resistentes, aunque no hay hallazgos científicos que demuestren esta teoría
con absoluta certeza.
Fuera de Extremadura el tirachinas no se usó hasta bien entrada la Edad
Media. Las únicas noticias que tenemos para poner una fecha del renacimiento
de este artilugio, vienen dadas en el siguiente fragmento de un artículo
recogido de una revista alemana de historia europea:
"Antes de aparecer el tirachinas o tiragomas o tirabeque (o se puede llamar
de muchas otras maneras), los deportistas tenían que limitarse a tirar
piedras con la mano, lo que provocaba un sentimiento de frustración en
muchos de ellos que se sabían dotados para más altas empresas e incapaces de
llevarlas a cabo por falta de la herramienta adecuada. Algunos de estos
deportistas, llegaron a confeccionar la horquilla del tiragomas y arrojaban
piedras a su través con resultados francamente decepcionantes. La falta de
goma se hacía notar. La inútil horquilla fue abandonada hasta que en 1472 el
famoso químico Sir. Percival Goffman, que buscaba con ahínco un remedio para
la caída de sus medias con las que remediaba, rellenándolas de algodón, el
escaso atractivo (algunos de sus detractores llegaron a hablar de su
repulsivo aspecto) de sus flacas pantorrillas, inventó la goma elástica con
gran éxito de público y crítica. El invento del tirachinas no se hizo
esperar.
En 1786 el italiano Marco Pietrilongui asombró a Paris con una exhibición de
tiro con tirachinas, que él llamó "tiracastagnas" con el que descalabró y
rompió uno por uno todos los cristales del palacio del vizconde de la Font
de la Pompe. Esta irrespetuosa agresión a la aristocracia estimuló a los
parisinos, que poco después hicieron la Revolución Francesa con la
contundencia ya sabida.
Entre los tirachinistas más destacados conviene recordar al norteamericano
Tom Honeysuckle que ideó la caza del bisonte con tirachinas. Su método
consistía en tirotear a las bestias con guijarros envueltos en algodón
hidrófilo empapado con cloroformo para capturarlas vivas y venderlas en
algún zoo de Europa, donde los bisontes eran muy admirados. Antes de
capturar al primero, el ingenioso Tom, que vagaba por la pradera ligeramente
aturdido por los vapores del anestésico, murió atropellado por una punta de
caballos en estampida.
Saludos
LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE
ElGaucho
"Gurriato"
> Esta arma mortífera recibe muchos otros nombres en los paises
> hispanohablantes. Uno de los más comunes es tirabeque, como registra el
> diccionario de la RAE:
> Los australopitecinos del Coño Sur prefieren la plabra "gomera", según
> asegura la acepción quinta de la palabra en el diccionario de la RAE
==========================
Gomera es una palabra medio vulgar, del lunfardo..Por supuesto, yo la
llamaba así, entre amigos.
Nombre "regular": Honda.
....y me han hecho buscar en la red...(¡¡papanatas!!!)
----Comentarios----
***Yo la conozco como "honda". Mi diccionario dice que en inglés americano
es
"slingshot" y en británico es "catapult".
***Aquí también se llama honda.
***Pues la honda que yo conozco es diferente a una resortera o tirachinas,
ya
que la honda no tiene una empuñadura en forma de "Y", sino que se toman
los extremos de las correas y se le da vuelta por encima de la cabeza. Por
cierto me acabo de enterar que "tirachinas" es sinónimo de "resortera". Ya
había oído alguna vez ese término pero nunca me preocupe por saber qué
era.
***Sé de lo que hablas. Para mí, ambas se llaman "honda".
*************************************************************
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_%28arma%29
Honda (arma)
De Wikipedia
**Tirachinas
La HONDA (también conocida como tirachinas, tiracantos, tirapiedras, gomeru,
estiragomas, tirador, resortera, china, biombo, cauchera, slingshot, fisga
... etc) es un instrumento para lanzar proyectiles con la fuerza de un brazo
humano.
Historia
La honda fue conocida desde la más remota antigüedad y ha estado en uso en
el ejército hasta el siglo XVI. En su manejo, se hicieron famosos los
honderos indígenas de las Baleares, según relatan algunos historiadores
griegos, conservándose en los museos algunas piedras de las que dichos
guerreros empleaban en su uso.
El DRAE sí hace la diferencia:
Tirachinas: m. Horquilla con mango a cuyos extremos se unen los de una
goma para estirarla y disparar así piedrecillas, perdigones, etc.
Honda: [del latín funda] f. Tira de cuero, o trenza de lana, cáñamo,
esparto u otra materia semejante, para tirar piedras con violencia.
**** Pero señala que en Argentina y Uruguay dicen honda en lugar de
tirachinas
o resortera.
*****************************
============================================================
Habiendo estado en contacto con chicanos, la he oído llamar: NIGASURA
http://www.lmtonline.com/locator/m2001/january.html
lamento si les ofende, es de origen americano.
__________________
Copyright © 2006 WordReference.com
RAY S. ELIZONDO
"Gurriato" <pata...@netnitco.net> wrote in message
news:Ad-dnQJT3I7...@netnitco.net...
>
> "ranolki" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:4a2b0kF...@individual.net...
>
>> "RAY S. ELIZONDO wrote
>>
>>>> in Texas a slingshot was called, Niger Shooter, that is why the boys
>>>> were asking me to make a "NIGASURA"
>>
>> No. La palabra correcta es "nigger". Se dice "nigger shooter" (Niger es
>> un río de África.)
>> Si bien, hoy día los negros van vengándose y tratan a los hispanos como
NIGER O NIGGER ES LO MISMO, CREO QUE ENTENDISTE.
Es como comparar Iraq e Irak, Havana y Habana, Brazil y Brasil
España y Espana, Mexico y Mejico, etc. de todos modos se entiende.
Todo es relativo, como dijo Einstein.
ranolki
"RAY S. ELIZONDO" <eliz...@prodigy.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:83Z_f.9656$%m4....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> NIGER O NIGGER ES LO MISMO, CREO QUE ENTENDISTE.
No es lo mismo, y, como alguién que habla mi idioma, debes saber
porque..;-)
1) las dos palabras tienen distintas etimologias.
"Nigger" viene de la palabra española, "negro" y pasó al inglés a través
del francés (negré).
"Niger" viene del país y del río de mismo nombre (c. Nigeria y los
idiomas de la familia "Niger-Congo")
La palabra "Niger" viene de la frase "gher n-gheren" que significa "río
de los ríos", es decir, "el más grande/importante de los ríos" en el
idioma Tamashek.
[1. river 2600 miles (4184 kilometers) W Africa flowing from Fouta
Djallon NE, SE, & S into Gulf of Guinea
2 country W Africa; a republic, until 1958 a territory of French West
Africa capital Niamey area 459,073 square miles (1,188,999 square
kilometers), population 8,516,000]
2) las palabras tienen distintas acepciones.
"Nigger" es una palabra peyorativa, abusiva, empleada como insulto.
"Niger" es el nombre propio del río o de la comarca.
3) Las dos palabras se pronuncian de maneras distintas.
En inglés, dos "g" juntas se pronuncian como "g" en "guasa"....
Una "ge" sola se pronuncia, por regla general, como "dzh" o "dy" que es
un sonido que no existe en castellano cabal, pero se aproxima a la "ll"
de "llave" en ciertos acentos/dialectos del peninsular.
saludos
ranolki
ranolki
"Gurriato" <pata...@netnitco.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:Ad-dnQJT3I7...@netnitco.net...
>
> NACIMIENTO DEL TIRACHINAS
>
En actualidad las investigaciones más recientes indican que el
tirachinas fue una invención mesoamericana (y que fue llamado
"picaculomayo" por el famoso conquistador, Don Angel Custodio, quien,
con su fiel esclavo moro, Alablh Vahd Alkcyt - más bien conocido como
Ali One-egg - descubrió en la selva a una tribu de indios ocupada de un
ritual muy extraño con una curiosa pelota grande, confeccionada de un
material desconocido que los indios llamaban "latexlatl".
Ese ritual consistía en empujar el balón con manos y pies hacia un foso
lleno de "morderreatas", una especie de víbora muy venenosa. El indio
que consiguió poner la pelota en el foso ganó....el otro tuvo que bajar
al foso para recogerla.
Ese juego ritualístico se llamaba Tlachtlic y dio origen a las dos
religiones más poderosas del mundo hispánico: el fútbol y el baloncesto.
Cada partido terminó con un sacrificio humano, una tradición que sigue
viva y coleando entre los equipos de fútbol colombianos.
Después del partido, el balon fue cortado en tiras, y ellas fueron
atadas a horquillas hechas de huesos de conquistadores desafortunados
que habían fallecido padeciendo un enfermedad venerea de que se
contagiaban tomando sexo con un género de mono llamado "zambo". (Esa
horrible enfermedad fue llevada a España por varios sacerdotes de
regreso de las Indias, y todavía se halla endémica en ciertas zonas de
Extremadura...;-)
Con "picaculomayos" (tirachinas) en mano, los indios salieron borrachos
para luchar con otra tribu, y después de una gran batalla, que viene a
nosotros llevando el nombre "Guerra de los Tirachinatlacayotilatls",
regresaron a su pueblo donde los esperaban Don Angel Custodio y Ali
One-egg. El Don fue tan impresionado por esa nueva arma que firmó un
contrato con el jefe de los indios, un tal Fuckmewhatalatlmoronolatl
para la venta y difusión de tirachinas por toda España.
Por lástima, la armada y el ejército españoles decidieron abandonar
cualquier otra forma de arma a favor del tirachinas...
The rest, as they say, is Historylatl.
saludos
ranolki