Puerto Ricans Are Rejected by Other Hispanics
torresD
such as Cubans, Mexicans, etc.
I went to Pedro Pietri funeral and was told by
a Spaniard from Spain, that she resented the
way that non Spaniards were referred to
as 'Spanish or Latino' when only Spaniards
from Spain were the real thing.
She said this in the most polite way possible,
but her meanining was clear.
The children and grandchildren of Cubans
born in Puerto Rico insist that they are
Cubans and not Puerto Rican, even though
their place of birth, list Puerto Rico as their birth place.
They tell me they are Cuban form their own clubs
in Puerto Rico that excludes Puerto Ricans, allows
only Cubans.
I remember an uproar at Hostos Community College
in the Bronx, when Herman Badillo had to be escorted
out of the college under armed guard, because Dominicans
were throwing things at him, spitting at him, because
he was in favor of Hostos Community College graduates
passing an English literacy test before they graduate.
The Dominicans attending Hostos Community College
clearly hated this idea, booed him out of the building,
when Badillo tried to speak.
There is a lot of tension, animosity between Puerto Rican
and other hispanics.
Why hide our heads in the sand about this?
It's not going away.
2nd, 3rd generation Puerto Ricans living on the mainland,
have left the Spanish language behind.
And that is a shame.
Puerto Rican children, teen agers do not know how to
speak Spanish even though their parents do.
Are Puerto Ricans thinking that by erasing the Spanish language
from the minds of their kids, their kids will be better accepted
in American society?
Observador
The main reason most "latinos" dislike Puertoricans, is that
WE ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS-we DON'T have to
risk life and limb to migrate to my country. We don't have to
wait endlessly for a "tajeta-veide", (Green Card) the way dominicans call it.
And you know what, We Puertoricans have a superiority complex,
We don't have to live like cubans, or dominicans or mexicans etc
dying to come to america, but our passport is only a plane ticket away.
We Puertorican-Americans ARE part of American Society!!!
The Puertoricans who migrated to the mailand will never return,
except on perhaps vacations, but never to live there.
The generation that was born in the United States are Americans,
their language will be english, their culture will be american, and they
will be bound only to the united states.
Advado Cifuentes
ourselves turds like you.
"Observador" <Obser...@observ.com> wrote in message
news:405e2867...@news.verizon.net...
Observador
Glad to see a pr ass kissing up to the "latinos", wake up dope,
let them kiss your ass, not the other way around.
Damocles
. . .
torresD
Why do you say that?
What was wrong with Herman Badillo, taking the position,
that in order to receive a degree from a college located
in the United States, in this case, Hostos Community College,
a English literacy exam is necessary?
The Hostos Community College is not located in Puerto Rico
or the Dominican Republic.
It was the Dominican students attending Hostos Community
College that were outraged at this proposition, which has
since been implemented, not the Puerto Ricans.
The Puerto Ricans were in favor of the English Literacy
being administered prior to graduation.
Those that could not pass the English Literacy Exam
would not receive a diploma.
What is a "real" Puerto Rican to you Damocles?
"Damocles" <Damo...@espada.com> wrote in message
news:rzr7c.20813$Nj.8803@fed1read01...
Crusader
"torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
torresD
"Observador"
> The main reason most "latinos" dislike Puertoricans, is that
> WE ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS-we DON'T have to
> risk life and limb to migrate to my country. We don't have to
> wait endlessly for a "tajeta-veide", (Green Card) the way dominicans
call it.
> And you know what, We Puertoricans have a superiority complex,
> We don't have to live like cubans, or dominicans or mexicans etc
> dying to come to america, but our passport is only a plane ticket away.
>
> We Puertorican-Americans ARE part of American Society!!!
If we are part of the American Society, how come every
government from includes a separate category for Puerto Ricans.
> The Puertoricans who migrated to the mailand will never return,
> except on perhaps vacations, but never to live there.
That's where you are wrong.
Puerto Ricans, after spending 20 years or more working in
the mainland are returning to the island, with their American
non-Spanish speaking children.
San Juan has established a school catering to them.
There are jobs in NYC, where you can retire with a full pension,
about $2,000 dollars a month, while you are in your early 40's.
Puerto Ricans retiring from such jobs, are going to two places,
Puerto Rico and Florida.
> The generation that was born in the United States are Americans,
> their language will be english, their culture will be american, and they
> will be bound only to the united states.
When even the "gringos" are learning how to speak, read and write
in Spanish, it is a tragedy that our Puerto Rican young men and women
cannot qualify for jobs, where the Spanish language is a requirement
or an asset, because they can't speak, read or write in Spanish,
while the "gringo" can.
This in families, where the parents speak Spanish all day long,
but make sure that their kids speak only English.
So a Puerto Rican with a "latino/a" face gives you a blank
stare when you ask ¿Como te llamas? they don't understand.
They are not fully accepted as mainstream Americans,
they are identified as Puerto Ricans, however they are
not accepted by other Hispanics because of lack of familiarity
with the Spanish language.
Jose Millan Astray
I think the literacy test are a good idea and gratified to see states
incorporating the study of a foreign language into the college graduation
requirements.
V/r
Jose Millan Astray
"Vista, suerte y al Toro"
"torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
torresD
There is a distinction made between Puerto Ricans and other Hispanics.
That is the case.
"Crusader" <y...@white.com
torresD
position in Hostos Community College, the NYPD had
to be called to h elp escort him out.
Hostos Community College were not able to contain
the throngs of Dominicans that were spitting him,
wanted to phyiscally attack him.
While the college is called
Eugenio María de Hostos Community College
of The City University of New York - and caters primarily to
a Spanish speaking student body, it is located in the USA
and proficiency in English should be a graduated for those
that want a diploma from this college.
Aside from that, it is true, for those that care to admit it,
don't wish to ignore this, that Puerto Ricans are treated
with disdain by other Hispanic groups.
To deny this is to live in fantasy land.
"Jose Millan Astray" <chatan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oLydnTyfC58...@comcast.com...
Jose Millan Astray
Again I would have to agree, I grew up next door to some Cuban families so
I naturally picked up some Cuban ways of pronouncing certain Spanish words.
When visiting Florida I have run into Cubans that after assuming I was
Cuban, proceeded to bad mouth all Puerto Ricans as ignorant dirt.
I haven't been to the City in many years, is Union City, NJ still a big
Cuban enclave?
V/r
Jose Millan Astray
"Vista, suerte y al Toro"
"torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:I6s7c.32808$%06....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
torresD
"Jose Millan Astray"
> Mr Torres,
> Again I would have to agree, I grew up next door to some Cuban families
so
> I naturally picked up some Cuban ways of pronouncing certain Spanish
words.
> When visiting Florida I have run into Cubans that after assuming I was
> Cuban, proceeded to bad mouth all Puerto Ricans as ignorant dirt.
> I haven't been to the City in many years, is Union City, NJ still a
big
> Cuban enclave?
>
> V/r
> Jose Millan Astray
> "Vista, suerte y al Toro"
I don't know, never having been to Union City, NJ.
But I have been to Florida and the attitude that you describe,
Cubans towards Puerto Ricans is prevalent there.
In Puerto Rico they make this distinction.
Insisting that even though they were born in Puerto Rico,
and their children and I am looking at their grandchildren
all born in Puerto Rico, they are really Cubans.
But in Florida, Puerto Ricans are gaining some political power,
as Puerto Ricans in Florida, are not for the most part ghetto dwellers,
but homeowners.
However, in NYC, the Puerto Ricans that leave the neighborhoods,
in the Bronx and Manhattan, and move to areas in upstate, New York,
buy their own homes, send their children to the local upstate, New York
schools, while commuting to their jobs in NYC, no longer identify their
children as Puerto Ricans.
Especially the white Puerto Ricans that can more easily blend in up
there. They discard their Puerto Ricaness and take on the more generic
"white" American lifestyle.
They speak Spanish, but their kids do not.
If they go to Puerto Rico at all, it's to vacation in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
I can think of one couple in particular, both with good jobs in NYC.
Between them they make approximately $150,000.00 a year.
He's a Sgt in the NYS Court System, she's a NYPD Police Officer.
Both born in Puerto Rico and raised in NYC.
They have 3 beautiful blonde hair, blue eye daughters.
All 3 stair steps, the oldest being just 10 years of age.
They live in upstate, New York, 1 1/2 from NYC.
They live in mostly an all white town, the darkest people
there are Mexicans that work in the various mom and pop
stores, and on the farms located in the area.
There daughters have never visited Puerto Rico,
there parents do not speak to them about Puerto Rico.
The girls identifiy themselves as Americans, speak English only.
What is interesting is that their mom, attended school in Puerto Rico,
for a time.
However, they why their daughters raised in a non-Puerto Rican
enviorment. No Spanish music, no rice and beans, no acknowledgement
of their own nationality.
The girls seem very happy, they have a big beautiful house,
backyard, lots of friends, love their school.
Parents indulge them.
It's progress,
as long as you strip away
your Puerto Rican identity.
This is just an example there are many others just like that.
Progess with a price.
Puerto Ricans retiring from these jobs are moving to Puerto Rico.
torresD
"Advado Cifuentes" <adva...@hotmail.com>
> No man, the main reason some of them dislike us is for having among
> ourselves turds like you.
Whatever the reason the rejection of Puerto Ricans
by other hispanics that come from Spanish speaking
islands, countries is irrefutable fact.
Observador
Herman Badillo had an excellent chance of becomeing New York City's first
Puertorican Mayor, However The gang of Monkeys led herman danny farrel, un in Harlem
vowed in a public speach that,there would NEVER be a "Partarican" mayor before
a black, and the vote was split, and the rest is history.
As for me I would neve cast a vote for a monkey.
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> Mr Torres,
> Again I would have to agree, I grew up next door to some Cuban families so
> I naturally picked up some Cuban ways of pronouncing certain Spanish words.
> When visiting Florida I have run into Cubans that after assuming I was
> Cuban, proceeded to bad mouth all Puerto Ricans as ignorant dirt.
> I haven't been to the City in many years, is Union City, NJ still a big
> Cuban enclave?
I'm in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Here the rivalry is between Chileans and
Salvadoreans. I myself am Salvadorean-Canadian and have been privy to the
lovely treat of having my Chilean friends parents say "Oh, pero tu eres muy
diferente a los demas Salvadoreños". I've been told here that Salvadoreans
are illiterate, uncouth, promiscuous and unwashed by supposed Chilean friends.
I guess it doesn't really matter where you go, if there's more than one
group of Hispanics they'll hate eachother.
GM
"torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> in the Bronx, when Herman Badillo had to be escorted
> out of the college under armed guard, because Dominicans
> were throwing things at him, spitting at him, because
> he was in favor of Hostos Community College graduates
> passing an English literacy test before they graduate.
> The Dominicans attending Hostos Community College
> clearly hated this idea, booed him out of the building,
> when Badillo tried to speak.
No!! the problem was that Badillo, a puerto rican professional, that is, a
guy who had made a living by spouting his puerto rican roots when it is
convenient to him and then acting like a non latin whitie, otherwise,
provoked a scandal in 1999 when he tried to denigrate mexicans, calling
them "little people with straight hair", ridiculing dominicans saying they
come from the hills with no education, etc. and was calling for an end of
whatever is left of CUNY's Open Admissions policy; he did that because he
is a political opportunist and switched parties and went to the right to the
Republican party seeking the party's nomination for Mayor and so he felt the
obligation to please his new right wing bosses by attacking the most
vulnerable ethnic groups in the city. He went to Hostos with the intention
of insulting the student body there, that is why he was booed because
everybody remembered the things he said before about dominicans and
mexicans.
In trying to smear Mexicans and Dominicans, Badillo himself showed how
ignorant he really is by calling mexican "Incas indian". He doesn't know
that Incas are from South America; not from Mexico.
This is a guy who got to be chancellor of CUNY because he is a political
opportunist and a well connected lawyer and not because he is a great
intellectual. In fact he has never written anything intellectual that
anybody can remember.
Badillo always used his puerto rican roots just to get votes from the puerto
rican community and from other latin groups, but deep inside, he himself
regrets being a puerto rican. One time he even got pissed off when someone
told him flat out that he speaks English with an accent and why he wanted to
look and act like a whitie when he doesn't even look like one. He wasn't
booed because of the English profiency test requirement; he was booed
because of his politics and for being a puppet on the CUNY Board always
trying to win acceptance from the other people on the board.
Badillo has always been a political opportunist. For years he sold himself
as a very liberal Democrat, even calling for the restitution of free tuition
at City University, and proud of his puerto rican heritage and then all of a
sudden the guy went all the way to the right, forgot he was born in Puerto
Rico, and became a servant dog of the craps in the Republican party, doing
all this in search of a Mayoral nomination which he has never been able to
obtain.
This is a guy with no principles so he was rightly booed at Hostos.
And let me tell you this about PRs being rejected... you take it from
whence it comes. Only the idiots, the unwashed and the illiterates are the
ones who could do such a thing. Puerto Ricans are like any other people,
there are good people, there are bad people, but there are more good, decent
people than bad and these are the people who have had to resist an invasion
of their country, have resisted the imposition of a foreign culture upon
them and have kept their original language and traditions. So don't feel
bad if you see idiots talking nonsense about puerto ricans, just be proud
that you are from "La Isla Borinquena!" :):):):)
GM
>
> Why do you say that?
> What was wrong with Herman Badillo, taking the position,
> that in order to receive a degree from a college located
Here's why he was booed
Badillo smears immigrants
New York protests continue over City University chief's racist diatribe
By Bill Vann
12 October 1999
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/badi-o12_prn.shtml
Back to screen version
More than two weeks after Herman Badillo, the chancellor of the City
University of New York (CUNY), launched into a racist diatribe against
Mexican and Dominican immigrants, protests against the politically connected
lawyer and ally of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani are continuing.
Demonstrators demanding Badillo's resignation succeeded in surrounding a
startled Giuliani outside City Hall on October 8, slipping through the
extensive security measures that have turned the building into one of the
most restricted areas in the city.
The reason for the protesters' ire was a talk given by Badillo last month to
a group of educators brought together by a private foundation. He told his
audience that "the biggest problem" facing the educational system in New
York City is students "from the hills of Mexico and the Dominican Republic,
who have never been to any schools."
The CUNY chairman continued, "The problem is that in Mexico and Central
America, there never has been a tradition of education."
Badillo, a Puerto Rican-born politician, said many of the new immigrants are
"pure Indians-Incas and Mayans who are about 5 feet tall with straight
hair." He went on to complain about increasing numbers of Mexican stores
opening up in the Barrio, the upper Manhattan neighborhood where he grew up.
"That's a Puerto Rican neighborhood," he said.
The statements provoked outraged protests from Mexican and Dominican groups
as well as a number of Hispanic politicians who called upon Governor George
Pataki to dismiss the CUNY chairman. "I'm furious that a prominent leader of
our community would prove to be so callous and prejudiced," said Juan
Figueroa, president of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund.
Largely lost in the outrage over the racist tone of Badillo's remarks was
their sheer ignorance. Discovering the origin of Mexicans and Dominicans in
the Incas, a people native to the South American Andean region, is a unique
contribution of the CUNY chairman.
Mayor Giuliani initially attempted to dodge questions regarding the CUNY
chancellor's remarks. Asked for a response to the demands for his
resignation, the mayor attempted to deflect the question back to his current
right-wing hobbyhorse in his run for the US Senate. He said he hoped "those
who say they were outraged by Herman Badillo's statements would join me in
being outraged at the Brooklyn Arts Museum." Pressed on the subject he
defended Badillo, asserting that he had "said the same thing about
Italians," and accusing the CUNY chief's critics of attacking him "not for
what he said, but for what he's doing to change CUNY."
From the perspective of the working class, minority and immigrant students
that CUNY has traditionally served, however, there is a direct connection
between what Badillo said and the policies that he has attempted to
implement.
Badillo, who was himself the beneficiary of CUNY's free tuition policies of
an earlier epoch, has spearheaded the drive to exclude from the system's 11
senior colleges all those unable to pass a battery of placement exams and to
eliminate all remedial education in these schools. The new requirements are
forcing many poor and immigrant students to abandon their plans for a
college degree in the face of having to pay for expensive remedial courses
before they can enroll in college and become eligible for financial aid.
These new attacks on the right to a public higher education come at a time
when tuition is already at an all-time high.
While CUNY was founded with the ostensible mission of serving those New
Yorkers most in need of an education and least able to afford one, the
policies pushed by Badillo, Giuliani and Pataki are aimed at bringing the
system more into line with the stark inequality that pervades all aspects of
life in the city. Under the slogan of "standards," they are attempting to
transform the system into one that can educate a limited number of the
academically elite to fill positions required by the Wall Street finance
houses, law firms and corporate headquarters that dominate the city's
economy. As for the vast majority of low-wage, service industry jobs created
in recent years, little or no higher education is required.
The remarks of the CUNY chancellor, moreover, were directed not so much at
the immediate problems faced by the city universities, but at the public
schools themselves. The conception that the "biggest problem" that these
schools face is the dramatic influx of immigrants that has driven up
enrollment year after year for the past decade is an argument for a form of
educational triage, excluding those facing the greatest educational
challenges, while focusing resources on the more privileged layers. Mayor
Giuliani's and Governor Pataki's advocacy of school vouchers and charter
schools as the solution to the city's schools crisis is aimed precisely at
such a "solution," culminating ultimately in the privatization of public
education altogether.
Badillo's political career is itself a clear expression of the city's social
stratification and the turn by a layer of the privileged middle class to the
right. The 69-year-old CUNY chancellor began political life as a liberal
Democrat, serving as Bronx borough president in the late 60s and then
holding a seat in the US House of Representatives from 1970 to 1978. He was
deputy mayor for two years under Ed Koch, then switched to the Republican
Party, becoming Mayor Giuliani's top education adviser.
In addition to his CUNY post, Badillo is a senior partner in the law firm
Fischbein, Badillo, which has raked in millions from clients seeking to do
business at City Hall. The other key partner at the firm is Raymond Harding,
the boss of the Liberal Party, who provided Giuliani with crucial support in
both his mayoral races and has remained a political adviser to the Mayor and
a conduit for political favors.
Badillo is expected to seek the Republican and Liberal nominations to
succeed Giuliani as Mayor in 2001.
While Badillo apologized for his remarks and Giuliani acknowledged that the
"words he used were wrong," both men aggressively support the reactionary
policies that the remarks were meant to defend. In reality, the episode was
merely the case of a reactionary political representative of New York's
financial elite expressing in public what he and his cohorts routinely say
in private.
Damocles
Benedict Arnold.
Damocles
wannabe white Badillo. Just because he married a Jew he thought he was
white!
Alabao!
Damocles
no lo son . . .
Damocles
stupid Ricans.
Damocles
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> It's racism and its stupid.
And it's everywhere
h0mi
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> Why are we rejected, despised by other Hispanics groups,
> such as Cubans, Mexicans, etc.
Tensions between different ethnic groups is nothing new. How welcome were
Dominicains by Puerto Ricans when they started coming to NYC? How welcome
are Mexicans in NYC as they started arriving?
This goes both ways; this isn't just about "Cubans" keeping to their own
on Puerto Rico; this is also about the Puerto Rican stereotype of
Dominicains as being the Polish of the Carribean, or the actions of men
who refused to allow their Puerto Rican daughters to marry/date
Dominicain men.
At St. Jeromes in the South Bronx, during some festival a few years ago,
the Dominicains and Puerto Ricans were together, excluding Mexicans and
were "offended" that Mexicans were selling tacos instead of buying their
plates of chicken & rice dishes they sold at the festival.
> I went to Pedro Pietri funeral and was told by
> a Spaniard from Spain, that she resented the
> way that non Spaniards were referred to
> as 'Spanish or Latino' when only Spaniards
> from Spain were the real thing.
> She said this in the most polite way possible,
> but her meanining was clear.
That sounds like a Spaniard's desire to distance herself from Latin
Americans. "Latinos" in Europe tends to bring up images of Spaniards,
Portuguese, French, Italian, and Roma peoples.
> The children and grandchildren of Cubans
> born in Puerto Rico insist that they are
> Cubans and not Puerto Rican, even though
> their place of birth, list Puerto Rico as their birth place.
How is this different from 2nd and 3rd generation Puerto Ricans living in
the US calling themselves "Puerto Rican" even when they were born
stateside?
How is this different from any member of another latin nationality doing
the same thing?
> They tell me they are Cuban form their own clubs
> in Puerto Rico that excludes Puerto Ricans, allows
> only Cubans.
>
> I remember an uproar at Hostos Community College
> in the Bronx, when Herman Badillo had to be escorted
> out of the college under armed guard, because Dominicans
> were throwing things at him, spitting at him, because
> he was in favor of Hostos Community College graduates
> passing an English literacy test before they graduate.
> The Dominicans attending Hostos Community College
> clearly hated this idea, booed him out of the building,
> when Badillo tried to speak.
They didn't do this to Badillo for being Puerto Rican; if Badill was a
Dominicain, they'd still have done this to him.
> There is a lot of tension, animosity between Puerto Rican
> and other hispanics.
As there are between other ethnic groups who have rivalries or otherwise
compete for power.
> Why hide our heads in the sand about this?
> It's not going away.
>
> 2nd, 3rd generation Puerto Ricans living on the mainland,
> have left the Spanish language behind.
> And that is a shame.
>
> Puerto Rican children, teen agers do not know how to
> speak Spanish even though their parents do.
This isn't very different from the experience of other immigrant groups
to this country.
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1.4304
> @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> were "offended" that Mexicans were selling tacos instead of buying their
> plates of chicken & rice dishes they sold at the festival.
It is amazing the pettiness that goes on at these types of events, I've seen
it up here too.
>> 2nd, 3rd generation Puerto Ricans living on the mainland,
>> have left the Spanish language behind.
>> And that is a shame.
>>
>> Puerto Rican children, teen agers do not know how to
>> speak Spanish even though their parents do.
In regards to the past post, I wouldn't blame this on the kids,
this means their parents didn't properly
emphasize the importance of being able to speak Spanish. I am very lucky to
have had parents that emphasized the importance of speaking it, for
cultural and practical reasons. It has been nothing but positive for me both
culturally and professionally.
You are correct, this does happen to the children of many immigrant's
children. It's a shame really.
Marc
> > I went to Pedro Pietri funeral and was told by
> > a Spaniard from Spain, that she resented the
> > way that non Spaniards were referred to
> > as 'Spanish or Latino' when only Spaniards
> > from Spain were the real thing.
> That sounds like a Spaniard's desire to distance herself from Latin
> Americans.
And why should they do that then? May-be some people have a certain
reputation and others do not want to be asociated with them? I am
happy that the whole 'Latin' world, consists of different cultures. I
do absolute not like the general culture in f.e. Cuba and Santa
Domingo. But I can still talk to a lot of other people who talk
Spanish, hence I did not learn this language for nothing. Many
Spaniard think the same way as me about parts of the Spanish speaking
world I am afraid.
> How is this different from any member of another latin nationality doing
> the same thing?
One Difference. Cubans are mostly very nationalistic, to the extent
that they kinda refuse to adapt in any country, be it Puerto Rico, the
US, or Europe. And yes, this is one of the reasons I dislike them.
> This isn't very different from the experience of other immigrant groups
> to this country.
It also depends on the individual capacity to learn another language.
Some people can speak a few languages quite well, others have trouble
with one. I speak better spanish, yes, it is not perfect but even,
better then lots of students in my Spanish class that have Spanish
speaking roots, but do not have the talent to learn a third or fourth
language.
torresD
"Marc" <marc...@zonnet.nl
> I went to Pedro Pietri funeral and was told by
> a Spaniard from Spain, that she resented the
> way that non Spaniards were referred to
> as 'Spanish or Latino' when only Spaniards
> from Spain were the real thing.
> That sounds like a Spaniard's desire to distance herself from Latin
> Americans.
Well she wasn't at that funeral by herself,
she was with a group of people, from their accent,
pronoucing words as though they had a (th) at the end,
I gathered they were all Spaniards.
They got on the same bus, I did and got off on 50th Street.
What she was saying to me, was that the only "spanish" people,
were from Spain and everyone else was a fraud.
She wasn't nasty or anything, she was making her point,
from her point of view.
There was a look in her eye, like if you want to get offended
go ahead.
Yet this same person, spoke eloquently as Pedro Pietri's funeral.
Pedro Pietri is a black Puerto Rican.
I really don't understand people. I get confused.
torresD
"GM" <G...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:hyu7c.5962$o76...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
>
> "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > I remember an uproar at Hostos Community College
> > in the Bronx, when Herman Badillo had to be escorted
> > out of the college under armed guard, because Dominicans
> > were throwing things at him, spitting at him, because
> > he was in favor of Hostos Community College graduates
> > passing an English literacy test before they graduate.
> > The Dominicans attending Hostos Community College
> > clearly hated this idea, booed him out of the building,
> > when Badillo tried to speak.
Excuse me, I was present, when Badillo arrived and when he left.
He was talking about that exam, about the fact that he was in favor
if the English Literacy exam for Hostos graduates.
That is when he was booed and spit at and had to be escorted
out of the Hostos Community College by NYPD Police.
> No!! the problem was that Badillo, a puerto rican professional, that is,
a
> guy who had made a living by spouting his puerto rican roots when it is
> convenient to him and then acting like a non latin whitie, otherwise,
> provoked a scandal in 1999 when he tried to denigrate mexicans, calling
> them "little people with straight hair", ridiculing dominicans saying they
> come from the hills with no education, etc. and was calling for an end of
> whatever is left of CUNY's Open Admissions policy;
Well Badillo was wrong for puttint down Mexicans and Dominicans.
Notwithstanding that Mexicans and Dominicans do not like Puerto Ricans
and let us know that fact all the time.
Let's not pretend that things are different than what they actually are.
he did that because he
> is a political opportunist and switched parties and went to the right to
the
> Republican party seeking the party's nomination for Mayor and so he felt
the
> obligation to please his new right wing bosses by attacking the most
> vulnerable ethnic groups in the city.
He went to Hostos with the intention of insulting the
student body there, that is why he was booed because
> everybody remembered the things he said before about dominicans and
> mexicans.
Badillo was not booed by everybody.
The Puerto Ricans did not boo Badillo, only the Dominicans did that.
They were so angry, the followed the Badillo surrounded by Police
outside of Hostos Community College in order to continue their attack
on Badillo. Badillo had to be whisked away, not because of Puerto Ricans
doing anything to him, it was the Dominicans that day.
Puerto Ricans, for the most part, are native English speakers.
And would have no problem taking an English Literacy exam and passing it.
Dominicans not only insisted on excluding the English Literacy exam,
they wanted the majority of the classes to be conducted in Spanish.
They seemed to forget that Hostos is located in Bronx, USA,
not Dominican Republica,USA.
> In trying to smear Mexicans and Dominicans, Badillo himself showed how
> ignorant he really is by calling mexican "Incas indian". He doesn't know
> that Incas are from South America; not from Mexico.
>
> This is a guy who got to be chancellor of CUNY because he is a political
> opportunist and a well connected lawyer and not because he is a great
> intellectual. In fact he has never written anything intellectual that
> anybody can remember.
Badillo has always helped me and my family whenever we went to
him for help. That was a long time ago, but he did help.
It doesn't matter of Puerto Ricans are educated or not, they are resented
and rejected by most other hispanics.
I think Puerto Ricans should stop trying to seek the approval of other
hispanics.
It's a waste of time.
: )
Well, she had a point. Americans call Mexicans and everyone
south-of-the-border "Spanish", and that simply is not true, nor are
Puertorican Spanish. In fact, most of those that Americans call Spanish
are actually American in race, not European, and often they are also
American in the political sense, plus American in the geographical
sense, so for ALL purposes they are American, not Spanish. Many times
these so-called "Spanish" are actually anti-Spanish, and have nothing in
common with the people of the Peninsula, either racially, culturally or
even language-wise.
Heck, if we use the same logic Americans use to label people "Spanish"
to label people "English", then Martin Luther King and Tupac Shakur are
"English"...
:)
torresD wrote:
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h0mi
> In soc.culture.latin-america h0mi <h0...@ooohay.com> wrote:
>> "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1.4304
>> @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>> the Dominicains and Puerto Ricans were together, excluding Mexicans
>> and were "offended" that Mexicans were selling tacos instead of
>> buying their plates of chicken & rice dishes they sold at the
>> festival.
>
> It is amazing the pettiness that goes on at these types of events,
> I've seen it up here too.
>
>>> 2nd, 3rd generation Puerto Ricans living on the mainland,
>>> have left the Spanish language behind.
>>> And that is a shame.
>>>
>>> Puerto Rican children, teen agers do not know how to
>>> speak Spanish even though their parents do.
>
> In regards to the past post, I wouldn't blame this on the kids,
> this means their parents didn't properly
> emphasize the importance of being able to speak Spanish.
Or the parents felt that it was more important that they establish ties
with their new home and be a part of the new country, not the old one
that they had left. Just as Italians, Irish, Germans, Poles, Swedes and
others before them.
torresD
otherwise you wouldn't be so busy trying to put someone down
because he is, in your opinion a "wanna be white".
"Damocles" <Damo...@espada.com> wrote in message
news:58v7c.22160$Nj.16331@fed1read01...
Marc
And the some of Spanish are anti some parts of the Latin world.
Especially the Caribbean countries I have got the impression. And the
Argentines and Chileans are considered more Spanish.
: )
are not. Just like in the rest of America, they had a large inmigration
component from Italy and other European and American countries, thus you
will find a little bit of everything there, and neither Spain nor them
feel particularly linked to each other. These nations parted ways in
1820, while PR, Cuba and the Philippines were Spanish until rather
recently. Thus, the ties are stronger in the latter.
You will find xenophobic attitudes between all countries, including
English versus Americans.
Marc wrote:
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Damocles
stupid and meaningless. Especially, among Boricuas . . . let gringos
engage in this stupid, irrational conversation.
GM
>
> "GM" <G...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:hyu7c.5962$o76...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> He was talking about that exam, about the fact that he was in favor
> if the English Literacy exam for Hostos graduates.
Badillo had no business going to Hostos to peddle his English language
exam. He was just acting like an errands dog of his new right wing friends.
He should be ashamed of himself for acting like a guy with no culture,
peddling an exam about a language that is not even his own.
>
> That is when he was booed and spit at and had to be escorted
> out of the Hostos Community College by NYPD Police.
That was good! I would've booed him myself very loudly, as well.
>
>
> > No!! the problem was that Badillo, a puerto rican professional, that
is,
> a
> > guy who had made a living by spouting his puerto rican roots when it is
> > convenient to him and then acting like a non latin whitie, otherwise,
> > provoked a scandal in 1999 when he tried to denigrate mexicans, calling
> > them "little people with straight hair", ridiculing dominicans saying
they
> > come from the hills with no education, etc. and was calling for an end
of
> > whatever is left of CUNY's Open Admissions policy;
>
> Well Badillo was wrong for puttint down Mexicans and Dominicans.
> Notwithstanding that Mexicans and Dominicans do not like Puerto Ricans
> and let us know that fact all the time.
> Let's not pretend that things are different than what they actually are.
You are making generalizations. Maybe you know some idiots who do that but
that doesn't mean everybody is like that.
>
> he did that because he
> > is a political opportunist and switched parties and went to the right to
> the
> > Republican party seeking the party's nomination for Mayor and so he felt
> the
> > obligation to please his new right wing bosses by attacking the most
> > vulnerable ethnic groups in the city.
>
> He went to Hostos with the intention of insulting the
> student body there, that is why he was booed because
> > everybody remembered the things he said before about dominicans and
> > mexicans.
> Badillo was not booed by everybody.
> The Puerto Ricans did not boo Badillo, only the Dominicans did that.
> They were so angry, the followed the Badillo surrounded by Police
> outside of Hostos Community College in order to continue their attack
> on Badillo. Badillo had to be whisked away, not because of Puerto Ricans
> doing anything to him, it was the Dominicans that day.
> Puerto Ricans, for the most part, are native English speakers.
> And would have no problem taking an English Literacy exam and passing it.
> Dominicans not only insisted on excluding the English Literacy exam,
> they wanted the majority of the classes to be conducted in Spanish.
> They seemed to forget that Hostos is located in Bronx, USA,
> not Dominican Republica,USA.
How can you say someting like that? Was everybody wearing labels "I'm
Dominican", "I'm Puerto Rican", "I'm Mexican"????
And just because Hostos is located in the Bronx, USA doesn't mean that
people should be held back in learning Math, Chemistry, Biology, etc.
because they either are not fluent in English or don't know the language.
Languages are just tools that people use to communicate with one another;.
It's nice to learn more than one language, but you shouldn't have anyone get
in your way trying to imposse his will upon you and much less from guy who
is doing that because he still feels that he has to win acceptance from the
establishment.
Like I said before, this Badillo guy is a Puerto Rican traitor and an
annexionist; he also has a personality conflict, he wants to belong to a
group where he doesn't fit.
I wonder what would Don Pedro Albizus Campos think about this guy if he
were alive today. And this was a Harvard cream of the top and never forgot
his Puerto Rican heritage and never sold out to the Oppressors!
>
> > In trying to smear Mexicans and Dominicans, Badillo himself showed how
> > ignorant he really is by calling mexican "Incas indian". He doesn't
know
> > that Incas are from South America; not from Mexico.
> >
> > This is a guy who got to be chancellor of CUNY because he is a political
> > opportunist and a well connected lawyer and not because he is a great
> > intellectual. In fact he has never written anything intellectual that
> > anybody can remember.
> Badillo has always helped me and my family whenever we went to
> him for help. That was a long time ago, but he did help.
>
Badillo did many good things in the past, Hostos was one of his creations,
but this is not the same Badillo of 1968 or the 1970's. This is a totally
changed man who abandoned his principles and moved to the darkest sector of
society all in search of an ellusive mayoral candidacy. The man has an
obssession of becoming New York City Mayor, so much so that he sold himself
to the Right. That just makes him a shallow person with no principles.
> It doesn't matter of Puerto Ricans are educated or not, they are resented
> and rejected by most other hispanics.
> I think Puerto Ricans should stop trying to seek the approval of other
> hispanics.
> It's a waste of time.
>
>
You do really have a wrong perception. You make sweeping generalizations
about people. It is simply not true that Puerto Ricans are rejected by
other hispanics. This is a perception created by the media and the powers
that be to keep people divided, just like it's done between whites and
blacks; whites against hispanics, blacks against hispanics and the other way
around. It really plays nicely into the hands of those in power, especially
Republicans.
Marc
> PR, Cuba and the Philippines were Spanish until rather
> recently. Thus, the ties are stronger in the latter.
Why should that be? Aruba is still Dutch and I do not feel at all
linked to the culture there. The fact that it is the same constitution
does not mean the culture is the same nor that peoples will find each
other sympathic. I feel more in common with the German or even the
Spanish then with the Arubans. The impression I have is that most of
my countrymen would agree with me on that.
: )
lies there. Most of Cuba and PR's ruling family clans are of Spanish
ancestry, and proud of the fact. Even those criollos who fought against
the Spanish claimed they were fighting the unfair economic measures
forced on them by the Peninsular government, not Spain itself. Many
Spanish soldiers chose to stay in Cuba,PR and Philippines after the war,
and were welcomed to do so by the new governments.
Marc
> Are you Dutch, or of Dutch extraction?
Dutch.
> Pehaps the crux of the matter
> lies there. Most of Cuba and PR's ruling family clans are of Spanish
> ancestry, and proud of the fact.
Hence I cannot compare PR to Aruba at all. The reason for the dislike
from the Dutch lies in the fact that Aruba gives them trouble. Aruba
makes his yearly budget by letting the Netherlands pay its depts,
Aruban immigrants play a large part in crime in the Netherlands (you
might find this xenofobic, but believe me it is a statistical fact),
there are hardly any original Dutch living in Aruba. Probably a
national day of celebration will follow if Aruba and the other Dutch
Antilles would declare themselves independant. Sorry to be so blunt,
but it is the truth, it might be the same kingdom, but large part of
the Dutch hate the Arubans and the Antillians. That we partly would
speak the same language makes no difference. I must also state that
most Arubans do not even speak Dutch but a strange dialect of Spanish
called Papiamento.
: )
population was comprised mostly of our vociferous minority party, the
PIP. They loudly advocates independence from the US, yet expect the US
to keep financing their government.
At present they only represent about 2-3% of the population, but their
effect on the international media and local politics is far, far greater
than their meager numbers would suggest. There seem to be many
parallels, although to different degrees, between both islands.
Are you guys considered Europeans by the EC?
Best Regards
Marc wrote:
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india
"torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZCo7c.51218$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I THINK THIS IS THE BELIEF... WRONG, NO? IT'S A PITY. I'M IN THE U S
WORKING ON MY PHD degree, and i can see it everytime.... however, PRicans
are demostrating that we're capable to work hard in order to have
recognition in the US.
>
>
h0mi
> Ouch! At first glance, Aruba looks as PR would look if the local
> population was comprised mostly of our vociferous minority party, the
> PIP. They loudly advocates independence from the US, yet expect the US
> to keep financing their government.
>
> At present they only represent about 2-3% of the population, but their
> effect on the international media and local politics is far, far
> greater than their meager numbers would suggest. There seem to be many
> parallels, although to different degrees, between both islands.
Question.
Given their smaller numbers, how do they manage to have this sort of
influence?
Damocles
Marc wrote:
> ": )" <jo...@tld.net> wrote
>
>
>>Are you Dutch, or of Dutch extraction?
>
>
> Dutch.
>
>
>>Pehaps the crux of the matter
>>lies there. Most of Cuba and PR's ruling family clans are of Spanish
>>ancestry, and proud of the fact.
>
>
> Hence I cannot compare PR to Aruba at all. The reason for the dislike
> from the Dutch lies in the fact that Aruba gives them trouble.
I am sure Arubans felt the same when the Dutch invaded and conquered
these islands.
Aruba
> makes his yearly budget by letting the Netherlands pay its depts,
> Aruban immigrants play a large part in crime in the Netherlands (you
> might find this xenofobic, but believe me it is a statistical fact),
> there are hardly any original Dutch living in Aruba.
The fact that they have a higher crime rate might be due to soemthing
called racial profiling. If agroup is more subject to surveillance, then
it is more likely for them to have a higher arrest rate. Imagine if the
US IRS had a spying camera on the CPA and accountants of the US wealthy
elite while filling out their tax forms. I betcha there would be a lot
of arrests too. If you are on the spotlight, you will be more likely to
be arrested.
Probably a
> national day of celebration will follow if Aruba and the other Dutch
> Antilles would declare themselves independant. Sorry to be so blunt,
> but it is the truth, it might be the same kingdom, but large part of
> the Dutch hate the Arubans and the Antillians.
I bet it is mutual.
redflag
What Pitin is relying on is a specious argument. The "2-3%" figure
reflects an electoral participation, not the actual number of people
that support independence but, for any number of reasons, do not
"take it to the polls".
Many pro-independence Puerto Ricans gravitate towards the PPD. That's an
error on their part, I believe. As long as they retain some illusions
about the possibilities of independence through the colonial process of
"commonwealth" relations with the U.S., they will continue to support
the PPD.
--
"Nowadays, atheism is itself *culpa levis*, as compared
with criticism of existing property relations."
"All history is nothing but a continuous transformation
of human nature."
You can access THE PEOPLE on-line by visiting
our web page at http://www.slp.org
Damocles
redflag wrote:
>
> h0mi wrote:
>
>>": )" <jo...@tld.net> wrote in news:4062...@127.0.0.1:
>>
>>
>>>Ouch! At first glance, Aruba looks as PR would look if the local
>>>population was comprised mostly of our vociferous minority party, the
>>>PIP. They loudly advocates independence from the US, yet expect the US
>>>to keep financing their government.
>>>
>>>At present they only represent about 2-3% of the population, but their
>>>effect on the international media and local politics is far, far
>>>greater than their meager numbers would suggest. There seem to be many
>>>parallels, although to different degrees, between both islands.
>>
>>Question.
>>
>>Given their smaller numbers, how do they manage to have this sort of
>>influence?
>
>
>
> What Pitin is relying on is a specious argument. The "2-3%" figure
> reflects an electoral participation, not the actual number of people
> that support independence but, for any number of reasons, do not
> "take it to the polls".
Of course, US intelligence agencies have always been more concerned
about what pro-independence supporters do than what the colonialists do,
I wonder why? They know the 2/3% is a straw PNP!
>
> Many pro-independence Puerto Ricans gravitate towards the PPD. That's an
> error on their part, I believe. As long as they retain some illusions
> about the possibilities of independence through the colonial process of
> "commonwealth" relations with the U.S., they will continue to support
> the PPD.
>
Unofortunately true.
: )
voters of Pro-statehood and Commonwealthers are almost identical, with a
slight advantage for statehooders, the PIP leaders often "sell" their
votes to the Commonwealthers for key potical positions if the latter win
the Elections. That 2-3% vote can give them the Victory, and the
Commonwealther PPD brass will sell their souls to the Devil for that, as
they did on 2000'.
:)
h0mi wrote:
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Observador
I really have got to laugh at this gang of neo-idiots, who have
engrained in their genes an inferiority complex.
We Puerto Ricans ARE Americans and when you use the word
Gringo it amounts to calling yourselves a DIRTY SPICK !
The least worry we Borcuas should have is if the other "latinos" like
us or not...the answer for me is simple. We got to put a halt to these
dirty uncivilized Banana Monkeys and Coconut Headed monkeys
from polluting OUR UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, with their filty.
The Boricuas which feels bad for not being "loved" by other lations or
other races for that matter, have no dignity, shame and are the lowest
of the low and should look into going to hell, as an alternative to
their filty existence on my country.
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:54:59 -0800, Damocles <Damo...@espada.com>
wrote:
Observador
wrote:
>
>"Observador"
>
>> The main reason most "latinos" dislike Puertoricans, is that
>> WE ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS-we DON'T have to
>> risk life and limb to migrate to my country. We don't have to
>> wait endlessly for a "tajeta-veide", (Green Card) the way dominicans
>call it.
>
>
>
>> And you know what, We Puertoricans have a superiority complex,
>> We don't have to live like cubans, or dominicans or mexicans etc
>> dying to come to america, but our passport is only a plane ticket away.
>>
>> We Puertorican-Americans ARE part of American Society!!!
>
>If we are part of the American Society, how come every
>government from includes a separate category for Puerto Ricans.
The bleeding heart limousine liberals, WANTED and use race as a
perimiter in their agenda.
>
>
>> The Puertoricans who migrated to the mailand will never return,
>> except on perhaps vacations, but never to live there.
>
>That's where you are wrong.
>Puerto Ricans, after spending 20 years or more working in
>the mainland are returning to the island, with their American
>non-Spanish speaking children.
>
>San Juan has established a school catering to them.
>There are jobs in NYC, where you can retire with a full pension,
>about $2,000 dollars a month, while you are in your early 40's.
>Puerto Ricans retiring from such jobs, are going to two places,
>Puerto Rico and Florida.
>
>> The generation that was born in the United States are Americans,
>> their language will be english, their culture will be american, and they
>> will be bound only to the united states.
>
>When even the "gringos" are learning how to speak, read and write
>in Spanish, it is a tragedy that our Puerto Rican young men and women
>cannot qualify for jobs, where the Spanish language is a requirement
>or an asset, because they can't speak, read or write in Spanish,
>while the "gringo" can.
>
>This in families, where the parents speak Spanish all day long,
>but make sure that their kids speak only English.
>
>So a Puerto Rican with a "latino/a" face gives you a blank
>stare when you ask ¿Como te llamas? they don't understand.
>
>They are not fully accepted as mainstream Americans,
>they are identified as Puerto Ricans, however they are
>not accepted by other Hispanics because of lack of familiarity
>with the Spanish language.
Damocles
earn you respect from the gringos.
Damocles
Observador wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:10:43 GMT, "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Observador"
>>
>>
>>>The main reason most "latinos" dislike Puertoricans, is that
>>>WE ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS-we DON'T have to
>>>risk life and limb to migrate to my country. We don't have to
>>>wait endlessly for a "tajeta-veide", (Green Card) the way dominicans
>>
>>call it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>And you know what, We Puertoricans have a superiority complex,
>>>We don't have to live like cubans, or dominicans or mexicans etc
>>>dying to come to america, but our passport is only a plane ticket away.
>>>
>>>We Puertorican-Americans ARE part of American Society!!!
>>
>>If we are part of the American Society, how come every
>>government from includes a separate category for Puerto Ricans.
>
> The bleeding heart limousine liberals, WANTED and use race as a
> perimiter in their agenda.
Moron, those categories exist to monitor racial discrimination end
ensuring access even to assholes like you into the political system. But
then, one wonders . . .
Ed Paul
news:Ruv7c.233589$A12.111503@edtnps84...
> In soc.culture.latin-america Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote:
> > It's racism and its stupid.
>
> And it's everywhere
>
OK, so...now there's a Cuban "race" and a Puerto Rican "race" and a
Salvadoran "race," etc., etc.???
Why elevate to "racism" what passes otherwise for stupid jingoistic
nationalism? Are the English that loathe the Irish (or for that matter,
loathe anyone else in the European continent) being "racist" when they
express their bigotted nationalitic feelings toward those of another nation?
Same for the feelings expressed by Argentinians toward Peruvians?
Are we so tainted by victimhood in this country that the only way to frame
issues that displease or disturb us is to first refer to them as "racist?"
Since when is the fact of being a Cuban, Argentinian, Bolivian, etc., a
"race" and not a "nationality?"
Edgardo Paulini
Ed Paul
they refer all Spanish-language speakers as "Spanish."
I remember when I visited pre-Castro Cuba with my family as a youngster that
Cubans generally referred to any Spaniard as a "gallego" and most Europeans
that were not French, Italian, or German as a "polaco," regardless of their
country of origin. Also, I recall there was no differentiation made between
Japanese, Chinese, Philipinos, etc., living in Cuba. Cubans referred to all
Orientals as "chinos."
Edgardo Paulini
": )" <jo...@tld.net> wrote in message news:405f74ac$1...@127.0.0.1...
Damocles
Ed Paul wrote:
> <lho...@mayaninvaders.com> wrote in message
> news:Ruv7c.233589$A12.111503@edtnps84...
>
>>In soc.culture.latin-america Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It's racism and its stupid.
>>
>>And it's everywhere
>>
>
>
> OK, so...now there's a Cuban "race" and a Puerto Rican "race" and a
> Salvadoran "race," etc., etc.???
If you treat people as if they were a race (we know they are ethnic
groups distinguished by a common culture, history etc.) they become
racialized and act out as if in fact they were a "race." The reality is
that U.S. popular culture treats these ethnic groups as if they were a
race. You hear people talking about Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck's
tryst as an "interracial" affair!
>
> Why elevate to "racism" what passes otherwise for stupid jingoistic
> nationalism? Are the English that loathe the Irish (or for that matter,
> loathe anyone else in the European continent) being "racist" when they
> express their bigotted nationalitic feelings toward those of another nation?
The Irish are probably one of the most interesting cases of a group that
was racialized an considered for many years "non-white." Their
"otherness" intensified by their colonized status and their Catholic
religion in a deeply intolerant Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture of the
1840s. The "No Nothing Party" in the 1840s had a anti irish political
platform.
For me it if walks like a dog, barks like a dog a poops like a dog, it
is a dog. Racism is more precise than mere xenophobia. If you are
British and loose your accent in the US you become an "American" (which
still means in the popular mind "white." But if you are Mexican or
Puerto Rican, if you "look" Latino even when you are 4th generation and
don't speak Spanish an attend an Anglican church, you are still "non-white."
US culture is kind of quaint like that . . . and racist.
Ed Paul
in Africa, Asia, as well as in our own continent experience the same
nationalistic, xenophobic, jingoistic (add whatever other term you want,
except "racist") feelings toward other citizens of other countries that are
largely outside the sphere of the US and which you ascribe to "racism."
Even the Japanese ascribe an inferior status to anyone who is not pure
Japanese, esp. Koreans and Phillipinos, although these feelings of
superiority exist even toward white Westerners.
Countries in South and Central America also experience the same degree of
jingoism against other neighbor countries, often ascribing to citizens of
their neighbor countries the same epithets one finds in use within our own
borders. And they do this without having been "raised" or otherwise
acculturated to the US culture.
Damocles" <Damo...@espada.com> wrote in message
news:h0J9c.41688$1I5.25523@fed1read01...
: )
Regards
M
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: )
original inhabitants of Nipon.
:)
Ed Paul wrote:
> Your theories *may* apply within the US but nations worldwide, incl. those
> in Africa, Asia, as well as in our own continent experience the same
> nationalistic, xenophobic, jingoistic (add whatever other term you want,
> except "racist") feelings toward other citizens of other countries that are
> largely outside the sphere of the US and which you ascribe to "racism."
> Even the Japanese ascribe an inferior status to anyone who is not pure
> Japanese, esp. Koreans and Phillipinos, although these feelings of
> superiority exist even toward white Westerners.
>
>
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Damocles
Ed Paul wrote:
> Your theories *may* apply within the US but nations worldwide, incl. those
> in Africa, Asia, as well as in our own continent experience the same
> nationalistic, xenophobic, jingoistic (add whatever other term you want,
> except "racist") feelings toward other citizens of other countries that are
> largely outside the sphere of the US and which you ascribe to "racism."
I was only referring to the "empire" . . . race is a social
construction that is largely dependent on a host of factors that include
history, dmeography etc. In Puerto Rico, for example race is a very
fluid concept that is mostly situational (just like in Brazil). One can
be "white" in Puerto Rico and "non white in anglo-saxon USA."
> Even the Japanese ascribe an inferior status to anyone who is not pure
> Japanese, esp. Koreans and Phillipinos, although these feelings of
> superiority exist even toward white Westerners.
Yes, and the Japanese have a caste of Japanese which are considered
"inferior" but Japan is also a colonizer nation where these distinctions
tend to arise. Remember, no one used the term race BEFORE the 15th
century. In fact, it is not even used in the early Spanish and English
versions of the bible. It is a product of colonialism.
>
> Countries in South and Central America also experience the same degree of
> jingoism against other neighbor countries, often ascribing to citizens of
> their neighbor countries the same epithets one finds in use within our own
> borders. And they do this without having been "raised" or otherwise
> acculturated to the US culture.
But never to the level of the US. In Louisiana, a non-white person is a
person who is NOT 1/32 black. You have to go deep into a family's
genealogy to figure that one out. It's called "hypodescent."
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> <lho...@mayaninvaders.com> wrote in message
> OK, so...now there's a Cuban "race" and a Puerto Rican "race" and a
> Salvadoran "race," etc., etc.???
No you're absolutely right, in most cases this is an issue of nationalism.
> Why elevate to "racism" what passes otherwise for stupid jingoistic
> nationalism? Are the English that loathe the Irish (or for that matter,
> loathe anyone else in the European continent) being "racist" when they
> express their bigotted nationalitic feelings toward those of another nation?
> Same for the feelings expressed by Argentinians toward Peruvians?
> Are we so tainted by victimhood in this country that the only way to frame
> issues that displease or disturb us is to first refer to them as "racist?"
> Since when is the fact of being a Cuban, Argentinian, Bolivian, etc., a
> "race" and not a "nationality?"
In some of the arguments I've heard from some of my Chilean friends though,
the argument may come down to race. As I was told by one "friend" Chileans
were superior due to being more "European". Never mind that the guy looked
like he could have just as easily been conversing about the issue as shooting
a poison dart. Anyway....
torresD
It doesn't seem to be confined just to Puerto Ricans being
rejected by other hispanics.
At an event, I met a group of people from Argentina.
They absolutely insisted that Argentina was "different"
from most Latin American countries, in that Argentina
was more closely related to Europe and Europeans.
This infuriated, my son's friend, and his parents,
his mom is Puerto Rican and his Dad is from Ecuador.
His Dad said that is one reason why no one really feels
sorry for Argentina and all the trouble they've had,
because of this attitude that Argentinians have in insisting
that they are really Europeans.
The woman, taunted him, I think it was a taunt,
by saying look at me and look at you.
The Ecuadorian looks Indian.
White skin with what looks to me like Indian features.
I didn't get involved in the very interesting discussion,
because it was so intense and passions got so heated.
Basically it was a discussion on what country is whiter
and whose citizens had the "whiter" features.
I am totally surprised at how little it took for these two
sides to become so polarized.
"Damocles" <Damo...@espada.com> wrote in message
news:RiN9c.48818$1I5.17467@fed1read01...
Marc
> The fact that they have a higher crime rate might be due to soemthing
> called racial profiling. If agroup is more subject to surveillance, then
> it is more likely for them to have a higher arrest rate.
No. The crime rate is about ten times higher then for the local white
population, and even much higher then other immigrant groups, that are
'as black' as them, futhermore there is no racist police. It's an
excuse that is not valid here. And even if the group would be subject
to more surveillance, it is because the police knows the people that
are up to something. First they do the crime, then they have the bad
name. Not the other way around.
> I bet it is mutual.
Good, if feelings are mutual, then I would ask them to get
independance soon.
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> At an event, I met a group of people from Argentina.
> They absolutely insisted that Argentina was "different"
> from most Latin American countries, in that Argentina
> was more closely related to Europe and Europeans.
> This infuriated, my son's friend, and his parents,
> his mom is Puerto Rican and his Dad is from Ecuador.
As a latina, I can say that I am truly sick and tired of hearing this kind
of attitude from people. A friend of mine (who for years shied away from the
subject) one day in a fit of rage over some problem we had proceeded to tell
me that Salvadoreans were illiterate bumpkins and that Chileans were some
sort of European jewel among the masses of dirty indians...ayayay.
Anyway, I think it really depends on which two ethnic groups are the largest
in any given area. The competition for resources and being able to say "Our
group got here first" is what gets the whole rivalry going. It's amazing how
in a place like Calgary (a multi-cultural but still mostly white city) you
would see a rivalry so insidious it trickles down to highschool fights
between first and second generation Canadians who descend from either country.
Of course, to many Canadians it just looks like another Latino brawl.
What a ridiculous waste of time wouldn't you say?
Latinguyny
rejected by other Hispanic groups; in fact Puerto Rican's are the ones that
do the rejecting. I feel that is because we Puerto Ricans are US citizens
and I and most of my Puerto Rican friends are very cautious with other
Hispanics because we are a citizen ticket for them. I have found that we
Puerto Rican's have to be very careful on who tries to befriend us. You ask
a Puerto Rican if they care if other Hispanics reject them, I would say no.
Ask me if I care? Don't get me wrong, I treat people accordingly. Treat me
like a human being and I will give you the same courtesy.
Freddie Rivera
"Ed Paul" <ed...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:CsG9c.58224$PY1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
torresD
> The fact that they have a higher crime rate might be due to soemthing
> called racial profiling. If agroup is more subject to surveillance, then
> it is more likely for them to have a higher arrest rate.
Because of a variety of reasons, rejection by the society
they live in, society says they have the wrong skin color,
wrong hair texture, wrong facial features,
substandard education, limited access to the
job market.
Because of all those reasons and others, certain groups
do commit more street crime than others.
Living in their neighborhoods becomes a risk.
The government tends to concentrate people that
meet those conditions into certain neighborhoods,
where no one else lives and those neighborhoods
become a beehive for street crime.
Neighbors are afraid of neighbors, burglary, robbery,
assaults are a common day occurrence.
You have other minority neighborhoods, for example
the Chinese, Korean, other Asian neighborhoods,
where the arrest rates are not the same, the street crime
is not the same.
Because society is more accepting of Asian minorities,
they do not reject their facial features, skin color,
body composition as they do other groups.
They place a premium on Asians.
There is seldom any complaining about racial profiling
in the Chinese, Korean, communities as in other communities.
ANIJ...@webtv.net
bigotry! to get a further handle on inside and outside prejudice from
the community itself....earl shorris wrote a great book entitled
-"Latinos," the whole story. also, "Crossing " by Ruben Martinez.
admitedly, these are from a Mexican vista, but nontheless valid for
other sectors of our vast Latino society. I am an activista and member
of a predominately mexican/central american AA group here in atlanta. i
am the only non-hispanic member! also, from the age of 17, i spent a
good 11-12 years living in manhattan, and the South Bronx. Mi vecindad
es su vecindad!
h0mi
news:h0J9c.41688$1I5.25523@fed1read01:
>
>
> Ed Paul wrote:
>> <lho...@mayaninvaders.com> wrote in message
>> news:Ruv7c.233589$A12.111503@edtnps84...
>>
>>>In soc.culture.latin-america Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's racism and its stupid.
>>>
>>>And it's everywhere
>>>
>>
>>
>> OK, so...now there's a Cuban "race" and a Puerto Rican "race" and a
>> Salvadoran "race," etc., etc.???
>
> If you treat people as if they were a race (we know they are ethnic
> groups distinguished by a common culture, history etc.) they become
> racialized and act out as if in fact they were a "race." The reality
> is that U.S. popular culture treats these ethnic groups as if they
> were a race. You hear people talking about Jennifer Lopez and Ben
> Affleck's tryst as an "interracial" affair!
A google search on "ben Affleck" and "jennifer lopez" and "interracial"
retrieves 88 hits.
Including:
http://racerelations.about.com/library/profile/aahotcouples.htm?PM=ss11
_racerelations
If we believe Ben Affleck, race has a lot to do with the amount of media
scrutiny a couple gets. Affleck has said, of the media frenzy surrounding
his relationship with mega-star Jennifer Lopez (a.k.a. 'J. Lo.'), "I
think it has to do with race and class, the fact that I'm white and she's
Puerto Rican. That's what's underneath, although nobody says it, because
it's not politically correct."
Interesting twist when Ben himself seems to describe it as an
"interracial affair". But out of all of those articles on the web, 88?
Here's another one
http://www.shine.com/real_life_cultureshock.cfm?content_id=Dating
Scientists who study the human genome say that race is mostly a bogus
distinction reflecting very little genetic difference, perhaps one-
hundredth of 1 percent of our DNA. In support of racial barriers to
romance continuing to erode, the 2000 census read that nearly 7 million
Americans classified themselves as multiracial. Among whites, pairings
with Asian Americans or Latinos hardly even count as "interracial"
anymore. Has anyone ever once commented on the pairing of Jennifer Lopez
and Ben Affleck in regards to the fact that Jennifer is Puerto-Rican and
Ben is Caucasian? The incursion of immigrants from Asia, Latin America,
and Africa in the past years has made it inevitable for any racial group
to isolate itself entirely from others.
This hit on google
http://ben-affleck-jennifer-lopez-marriage.thecycles.com/
simply has the word "interracial" on the same page as those 2 names. The
context?
Gay Marriage: history never repeats?
Great thread on Corante about a historical parallel in US law to the
current fracas over gay marriage. The punch line: in 1911, there was a
constitutional amendment attempt to ban interracial marriage. Link
(Thanks, CJC)
Full Story
Obviously that has nothing to do with Ben and Jlo.
>> Why elevate to "racism" what passes otherwise for stupid jingoistic
>> nationalism? Are the English that loathe the Irish (or for that
>> matter, loathe anyone else in the European continent) being "racist"
>> when they express their bigotted nationalitic feelings toward those
>> of another nation?
>
>
> The Irish are probably one of the most interesting cases of a group
> that was racialized an considered for many years "non-white." Their
> "otherness" intensified by their colonized status and their Catholic
> religion in a deeply intolerant Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture of the
> 1840s. The "No Nothing Party" in the 1840s had a anti irish political
> platform.
>
> For me it if walks like a dog, barks like a dog a poops like a dog, it
> is a dog. Racism is more precise than mere xenophobia. If you are
> British and loose your accent in the US you become an "American"
> (which still means in the popular mind "white." But if you are Mexican
> or Puerto Rican, if you "look" Latino even when you are 4th generation
> and don't speak Spanish an attend an Anglican church, you are still
> "non-white."
How much of this is also driven by the derision of so called "assimilated
latinos" by the community?
> US culture is kind of quaint like that . . . and racist.
Quaint? Hardly.
Hagios Fenum
Anything different from that is the intention of some sicko, trying or
imposing his or her rotten views or the wrongful explanation of ethnic
differences between the different countries or regions.
After the Germans and later the Britt's [which brought it to America] tried
to impose cranial [and in a documented case, penis] measurements, everyone
was white and superior. Yes, until a group of Australia's pigmies and some
African tribes came up genetically with bigger craniums. The whole crap was
forgotten. But, the idea of superiority remained, for the shame of everyone
that has purported it.
What has been practiced for centuries is another thing, and it is socially
identified with social superiority. That explains why there has been slaves
in old Greece and so on. But remember one thing is social superiority an
another thing is "racial" superiority, do the fine line has been trespassed
so many times and in so many ways that these days it may mean the same for
many.
Anyway, it is plain stupidity to compare anyone's skin color or tone or more
exactly said, complexion, and come to the conclusion that the lighter is
better. And the ones that support it or brag about always have been brought
to a shameful position. Remember J.C. [Jesse] Owens?
Jesse entered the 1936 Olympics, which to many are known as the "Hitler
Olympics." These games were to be held in Nazi Germany, and Hitler was going
to prove to the world that the German "Aryan" people were the dominant race.
Jesse had different plans, however, and by the end of the games even German
fans cheered for him.
Jesse was triumphant in the 100-meter dash, the 200-meter dash and the broad
jump. He was also a key member of the 400-meter relay team that won the Gold
Medal. In all but one of these events Jesse set Olympic records. Jesse was
the first American in the history of Olympic Track and Field to win four
gold medals in a single Olympics.
The funny guy with the little mustache proved the superiority of the "Aryan
race" by not handshaking Owens's hand as he did on the first day of the
games.
Hagios Fenum
"h0mi" <h0...@ooohay.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BBCC4CED8...@68.6.19.6...
Marc
> You have other minority neighborhoods, for example
> the Chinese, Korean, other Asian neighborhoods,
> where the arrest rates are not the same, the street crime
> is not the same.
> Because society is more accepting of Asian minorities,
> they do not reject their facial features, skin color,
> body composition as they do other groups.
So if a more or less by whites dominated society rejects a group of
one color and accept a group of another color, both groups as
different from their origin as can be. It is because they hate the
color black skin, but they love the chinese eyes?
Furthermore I can add that some groups that are racial almost the
same, but are cultural very different, have total different crime
rates. Like the Arab and Spanish immigrants in my country. Where the
Marocs are notorious.
So, pointing racism is used to excuse the behavior of some groups.
This we have called in the Netherlands the Political Correct, and
since a year or two nobody takes this 'nazi linking' of the leftwinged
as serious anymore. And I am very happy about this.
Damocles
waste time trying to prove they are "whiter" than other colonized
people. They are basically thinking as colonized subjects whose
aesthetic, political and cultural worldviews are tainted by their
national histories of subordination and subjugation. During the war to
recuperate the Falklands (where I support Argentinian sovereignty over
them . . .) being "more European" did not help Argentinians avoid being
beaten like any other third world nation. I don't remember any other
European nation provide any help to them either (and we know what role
the US had in the sordid affair!).
The Ecuadorian should study history of the Incas whose civilization was
more advanced than the Europeans were in the 15th century. The only
advantage the Spaniards had over the Aztecs and Incas was power and
uncontrollable greed.
Damocles
Argentineans, Chileans of Salvadoreans are at the bottom of the social
ladder in terms of prestige, status. Canadians or US Anglos don't see
any differences among Latinos, they just see a homogenized group.
Unfortunately, Latinos behave like a group of crabs you place in the
bottom of a barrel, as soon as one crab begins to climb the walls out of
their metaphoric place of subordination, another crab quickly pulls the
climbing crab down.
From the top of the barrel, all crabs look alike, and frankly, the
behavior seem rather bizarre, but predictable---since they are crabs---
to those who observe from the top.
Damocles
h0mi wrote:
> Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote in
> news:h0J9c.41688$1I5.25523@fed1read01:
>
>
>>
>>Ed Paul wrote:
>>
>>><lho...@mayaninvaders.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Ruv7c.233589$A12.111503@edtnps84...
>>>
>>>
>>>>In soc.culture.latin-america Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's racism and its stupid.
>>>>
>>>>And it's everywhere
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>OK, so...now there's a Cuban "race" and a Puerto Rican "race" and a
>>>Salvadoran "race," etc., etc.???
>>
>>If you treat people as if they were a race (we know they are ethnic
>>groups distinguished by a common culture, history etc.) they become
>>racialized and act out as if in fact they were a "race." The reality
>>is that U.S. popular culture treats these ethnic groups as if they
>>were a race. You hear people talking about Jennifer Lopez and Ben
>>Affleck's tryst as an "interracial" affair!
>
>
> A google search on "ben Affleck" and "jennifer lopez" and "interracial"
> retrieves 88 hits.
>
> Including:
>
> http://racerelations.about.com/library/profile/aahotcouples.htm?PM=ss11
> _racerelations
US culture is racially obsessed, but the worst part is that it lives in
denial, youth are the hope but it will not happen by chance but with
education and less segregation.
>
> If we believe Ben Affleck, race has a lot to do with the amount of media
> scrutiny a couple gets. Affleck has said, of the media frenzy surrounding
> his relationship with mega-star Jennifer Lopez (a.k.a. 'J. Lo.'), "I
> think it has to do with race and class, the fact that I'm white and she's
> Puerto Rican. That's what's underneath, although nobody says it, because
> it's not politically correct."
It's funny how he describes himself as "white" and Jennifer as "Puerto
Rican" again racializing her. Puerto Ricans are mestizos, mulattos, of
European ancestry, Asian and yet in the US polarized system they become
"non white." Cute.
>
>
> Interesting twist when Ben himself seems to describe it as an
> "interracial affair". But out of all of those articles on the web, 88?
>
> Here's another one
>
> http://www.shine.com/real_life_cultureshock.cfm?content_id=Dating
>
> Scientists who study the human genome say that race is mostly a bogus
> distinction reflecting very little genetic difference, perhaps one-
> hundredth of 1 percent of our DNA. In support of racial barriers to
> romance continuing to erode, the 2000 census read that nearly 7 million
> Americans classified themselves as multiracial. Among whites, pairings
> with Asian Americans or Latinos hardly even count as "interracial"
> anymore. Has anyone ever once commented on the pairing of Jennifer Lopez
> and Ben Affleck in regards to the fact that Jennifer is Puerto-Rican and
> Ben is Caucasian? The incursion of immigrants from Asia, Latin America,
> and Africa in the past years has made it inevitable for any racial group
> to isolate itself entirely from others.
The author should have done a google search like you did. In 1967, not
very long ago, the Supreme Court banned anti miscegenation laws. A the
time, 16 states punished couples who crossed racial barriers. But the
banning of anti miscegenation laws did not change the culture which
stills harbor these kinds of ignorant barriers.
>
>
> This hit on google
>
> http://ben-affleck-jennifer-lopez-marriage.thecycles.com/
>
> simply has the word "interracial" on the same page as those 2 names. The
> context?
>
> Gay Marriage: history never repeats?
> Great thread on Corante about a historical parallel in US law to the
> current fracas over gay marriage. The punch line: in 1911, there was a
> constitutional amendment attempt to ban interracial marriage. Link
> (Thanks, CJC)
Actually, in 1924 (1920?) the Racial Integrity Act was enacted banning
inter racial marriages. This was at the height of the xenophobia craze
of the 1920s when the National Origin Act was enacted ending immigration
from the darker Europeans of South, East and Central Europe.
> Full Story
>
> Obviously that has nothing to do with Ben and Jlo.
>
>
>
>>>Why elevate to "racism" what passes otherwise for stupid jingoistic
>>>nationalism? Are the English that loathe the Irish (or for that
>>>matter, loathe anyone else in the European continent) being "racist"
>>>when they express their bigotted nationalitic feelings toward those
>>>of another nation?
>>
>>
>>The Irish are probably one of the most interesting cases of a group
>>that was racialized an considered for many years "non-white." Their
>>"otherness" intensified by their colonized status and their Catholic
>>religion in a deeply intolerant Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture of the
>>1840s. The "No Nothing Party" in the 1840s had a anti irish political
>>platform.
>>
>>For me it if walks like a dog, barks like a dog a poops like a dog, it
>>is a dog. Racism is more precise than mere xenophobia. If you are
>>British and loose your accent in the US you become an "American"
>>(which still means in the popular mind "white." But if you are Mexican
>>or Puerto Rican, if you "look" Latino even when you are 4th generation
>>and don't speak Spanish an attend an Anglican church, you are still
>>"non-white."
>
>
> How much of this is also driven by the derision of so called "assimilated
> latinos" by the community?
I think the influence is negligible, however, putting down assimilated
Latinos is part of the crab syndrome and not very helpful. But it is a
coping mechanism that perpetuates divisions among Latinos. The Irish
fourght hard to keep their group together to fight the racism and
exclusion they experienced. Remember the Molly Maguires?
>
>
>>US culture is kind of quaint like that . . . and racist.
>
>
> Quaint? Hardly.
It was sarcasm.
>
Damocles
"Dos Boricuas estadistas visitaban la ciudad de El Paso cuando una
trulla de "skinheads" empezaron a increparlos y lanzarles insultos
raciales. "Hey you fucking Mexicans, why don-t you go back where you
came from! Los Boricuas los ignoraron al principio pero cuando vieron
que el grupo se les acercaba corriendo empezaron a gritar "Wi ar U.S.
sitisens, wi ar U.S. sitisens, wi Polto Licans!" los "skin heads" les
contestaban mientras les daban una salsa "We don-t care what kind of
Mexicans you are! Bam! Boom!"
Damocles
Marc wrote:
> Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote
>
>
>
>>The fact that they have a higher crime rate might be due to soemthing
>>called racial profiling. If agroup is more subject to surveillance, then
>>it is more likely for them to have a higher arrest rate.
>
>
> No. The crime rate is about ten times higher then for the local white
> population, and even much higher then other immigrant groups, that are
> 'as black' as them, futhermore there is no racist police. It's an
> excuse that is not valid here. And even if the group would be subject
> to more surveillance, it is because the police knows the people that
> are up to something. First they do the crime, then they have the bad
> name. Not the other way around.
I guess I will have to take your word for the data. However, the
Netherlands then appears to be the only colonizer nation in human
history that is not racist? Hard to accept.
Damocles
torresD wrote:
>>Damocles <Damo...@espada.com> wrote
>
>
>
> > The fact that they have a higher crime rate might be due to soemthing
> > called racial profiling. If agroup is more subject to surveillance, then
> > it is more likely for them to have a higher arrest rate.
>
> Because of a variety of reasons, rejection by the society
> they live in, society says they have the wrong skin color,
> wrong hair texture, wrong facial features,
> substandard education, limited access to the
> job market.
Don't you think that wealthy people commit crimes which are the kind
(white collar) we don't monitor as much. Enron was not an aberration, it
is part of a pattern.
Damocles
Marc wrote:
> "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>
>>You have other minority neighborhoods, for example
>>the Chinese, Korean, other Asian neighborhoods,
>>where the arrest rates are not the same, the street crime
>>is not the same.
>
>
>
>>Because society is more accepting of Asian minorities,
>>they do not reject their facial features, skin color,
>>body composition as they do other groups.
I don't know about New York but in areas when poor Asians live (Hmonh,
Cambodians, Vietnamese) they also have gangs, street crime, it's about
how class and race become intertwined. Anyone remember the Irish gangs
in Hell's Kitchen?
>
>
> So if a more or less by whites dominated society rejects a group of
> one color and accept a group of another color, both groups as
> different from their origin as can be. It is because they hate the
> color black skin, but they love the chinese eyes?
>
> Furthermore I can add that some groups that are racial almost the
> same, but are cultural very different, have total different crime
> rates. Like the Arab and Spanish immigrants in my country. Where the
> Marocs are notorious.
Actually, in global terms the US has the highest crime rate,
(interventions, wars, spying, lying about WMD) and since it is white
controlled country then whites have, globally a higher crime rate than
non- European nations.
A partial list . . . so who is more criminal?
A CENTURY OF U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTIONS
The following is a partial list of 130 U.S. military interventions from
1890 to 1999
SOUTH DAKOTA/ 1890 (-?)/ Troops/ 300 Lakota Indians
massacred at Wounded Knee.
ARGENTINA/ 1890/ Troops/ Buenos Aires interests protected.
CHILE/ 1891/ Troops/ Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
HAITI/ 1891/ Troops/ Black workers revolt on U.S.-claimed
Navassa Island defeated.
IDAHO/ 1892/ troops/ Army suppresses silver miners' strike.
HAWAII/ 1893 (-?)/ Naval, troops/ Independent kingdom
overthrown, annexed.
CHICAGO/ 1894/ Troops/ Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
NICARAGUA/ 1894/ Troops/ Month-long occupation of
Bluefields.
CHINA/ 1894-95/ Naval, troops/ Marines land in Sino-Japanese
War.
KOREA/ 1894-96/ Troops/ Marines kept in Seoul during war.
PANAMA/ 1895/ Troops, naval/ Marines land in Colombian
province.
NICARAGUA/ 1896/ Troops/ Marines land in port of Corinto.
CHINA/ 1989-1900/ Troops/ Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign
armies.
PHILIPPINES/ 1898-1910(-?)/ Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain,
killed 600,000 Filipinos.
CUBA/ 1898-1902(-?)/ Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain, still hold
Navy base.
PUERTO RICO/ 1898(-?)/ Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain,
occupation continues.
GUAM/ 1898(-?)/ Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain, still use as
base.
MINNESOTA/ 1898(-?)/ Troops/ Army battles Chippewa at Leech
Lake.
NICARAGUA/ 1898/ Troops / Marines land at port of San Juan
del Sur.
SAMOA/ 1899(-?)/ Troops/ Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA/ 1899/ Troops/ Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO/ 1899-1901/ Troops / Army occupies C?ur d'Alene mining
region.
OKLAHOMA/ 1901/ Troops/ Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA/ 1901-14/ Naval, troops/ Broke off from Colombia
1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99.
HONDURAS/ 1903/ Troops/ Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REP./ 1903-04/ Troops / U.S. interests protected in
Revolution.
KOREA/ 1904-05/ Troops/ Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA/ 1906-09/ Troops/ Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA/ 1907/ Troops/ 'Dollar Diplomacy' protectorate set
up.
HONDURAS/ 1907/ Troops/ Marines land during war with
Nicaragua.
PANAMA/ 1908/ Troops / Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA/ 1910/ Troops / Marines land in Bluefields and
Corinto.
HONDURAS/ 1911/ Troops/ U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CUBA/ 1912/ Troops/ U.S. interests protected in Havana.
PANAMA/ 19l2/ Troops/ Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS/ 19l2/ Troops/ Marines protect U.S. economic
interests.
NICARAGUA/ 1912-33/ Troops, bombing/ 20-year occupation,
fought guerrillas.
MEXICO/ 19l3/ Naval/ Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/ 1914/ Naval/ Fight with rebels over
Santo Domingo.
COLORADO/ 1914/ Troops/ Breaking of miners' strike by Army.
MEXICO/ 1914-18/ Naval, troops/ Series of interventions against
nationalists.
HAITI/ 1914-34/ Troops, bombing/ 19-year occupation after revolts.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/ 1916-24/ Troops/ 8-year Marine
occupation.
CUBA/ 1917-33/ Troops/ Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I/ 19l7-18/ Naval, troops/ Ships sunk, fought Germany.
RUSSIA/ 1918-22/ Naval, troops/ Five landings to fight Bolsheviks.
PANAMA/ 1918-20/ Troops/ 'Police duty' during unrest after elections.
YUGOSLAVIA/ 1919/ Troops/ Marines intervene for Italy against
Serbs in Dalmatia.
HONDURAS/ 1919/ Troops/ Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA/ 1920/ Troops/ 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA/ 1920-21/ Troops, bombing/ Army intervenes
against mineworkers.
TURKEY/ 1922/ Troops/ Fought nationalists in Smyrna (Izmir).
CHINA/ 1922-27/ Naval, troops/ Deployment during nationalist revolt.
HONDURAS/ 1924-25/ Troops/ Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA/ 1925/ Troops / Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA/ 1927-34/ Troops/ Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR/ 1932/ Naval/ Warships sent during Faribundo Marti
revolt.
WASHINGTON DC/ 1932/ Troops/ Army stops WWI vet bonus
protest.
WORLD WAR II/ 1941-45/ Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear/ Fought
Axis for 3 years; 1st nuclear war.
DETROIT/ 1943/ Troops/ Army puts down Black rebellion.
IRAN/ 1946/ Nuclear threat/ Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian
Azerbaijan).
YUGOSLAVIA/ 1946/ Naval/ Response to shooting-down of
U.S.plane.
URUGUAY/ 1947/ Nuclear threat/ Bombers deployed as show of
strength.
GREECE/ 1947-49/ Command operation/ U.S. directs extreme-right in
civil war.
CHINA/ 1948-49/ Troops/ Marines evacuate Americans before
Communist victory.
GERMANY/ 1948/ Nuclear threat/ Atomic-capable bombers guard
Berlin Airlift.
PHILIPPINES/ 1948-54/ Command operation/ CIA directs war against
Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO\ 1950/ Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats/
Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA/ 1951-53(-?)/ U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea
to stalemate; A bomb threat in 1950, & vs.China in 1953. Still have
bases.
IRAN/ 1953/ Command operation/ CIA overthrows democracy, installs
Shah.
VIETNAM/ 1954/ Nuclear threat/ Bombs offered to French to use
against siege.
GUATEMALA/ 1954/ Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat/
CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalizes U.S.
company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT/ 1956/ Nuclear threat, troops/ Soviets told to keep out of Suez
crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners
LEBANON/ 1958/ Troops, naval/ Marine occupation against rebels
IRAQ/ 1958/ Nuclear threat/ Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA/ 1958/ Nuclear threat/ China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA/ 1958/ Troops/ Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
Damocles
However, which group has the power to implement polcies shaped by racial
prejudice?
torresD
by mostly, not all, Hispanic Artist by the School of Visual Arts
and had nothing to do with any of that.
But it does show you that passions can be ignited by very little,
and the topic of who is "whiter" which is what the Argentine
were saying they were, certainly inflames passions.
School of Visual Arts is an excellent school.
They often have exhibits, artwork,
paintings, sculptures done by their students.
"Damocles" <Damo...@espada.com> wrote in message
news:LrBac.67740$1I5.43419@fed1read01...
torresD
"Damocles" <Damo...@espada.com
> I guess I will have to take your word for the data. However, the
> Netherlands then appears to be the only colonizer nation in human
> history that is not racist? Hard to accept.
Racism experienced by certain groups,
causes the members of those groups to
engage in robberies, assaults, etc.
Racism because they are rejected by society.
Taxi's whiz by them, afraid to pick them up,
for fear of becoming victims, employers won't hire them,
schools in their neighborhoods are substandard, they don't
receive a good education.
They resort to robberies, drug dealing, street crime in general.
Are the police wrong to stop them, engage in racial profiling,
even though they are the ones more likely to be involved in street crime?
: )
Damocles wrote:
During the war to
> recuperate the Falklands (where I support Argentinian sovereignty over
> them . . .) being "more European" did not help Argentinians avoid being
> beaten like any other third world nation. I don't remember any other
> European nation provide any help to them either (and we know what role
> the US had in the sordid affair!).
Neither were the Germans better treated in 1945'. Read "Other Losses"
The Brits have no justification for being in the Malvinas, yet History
has proven that Might does make Right, and the possibility of subsea
Oil Deposits make the Malvinas very enticing.
Also, winning the conflict would have meant that the Junta would have
stayed in Power, and the butcher bill of "disappeared" argentinian youth
would be much larger. So, this cloud did have a silver lining after all.
>
> The Ecuadorian should study history of the Incas whose civilization was
> more advanced than the Europeans were in the 15th century. The only
> advantage the Spaniards had over the Aztecs and Incas was power and
> uncontrollable greed.
Not really, the Spanish had bigger brains and cojones, and the will to
forge ahead. The Americans were not that significantly behind in
military techniques.
See how much their machine guns and hand grenades helped the US and
Japanese soldiers against the Borneo natives in WWII.
Damocles
: ) wrote:
>
>
> Damocles wrote:
> During the war to
> > recuperate the Falklands (where I support Argentinian sovereignty over
> > them . . .) being "more European" did not help Argentinians avoid being
> > beaten like any other third world nation. I don't remember any other
> > European nation provide any help to them either (and we know what role
> > the US had in the sordid affair!).
>
> Neither were the Germans better treated in 1945'. Read "Other Losses"
>
> The Brits have no justification for being in the Malvinas, yet History
> has proven that Might does make Right, and the possibility of subsea
> Oil Deposits make the Malvinas very enticing.
>
> Also, winning the conflict would have meant that the Junta would have
> stayed in Power, and the butcher bill of "disappeared" argentinian youth
> would be much larger. So, this cloud did have a silver lining after all.
One good thing about the Junta's defeat.
Marc
> They resort to robberies, drug dealing, street crime in general.
Like this you can always excuse your own behavior! It reminds me of
the Cubans blaming everthing they do themselves on communism. I am
sorry to say but I think this excusing behavior and lack of self
reflection is typical for some cultures. That is the real problem, not
racial discrimination.
hegemón
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> Argentineans, Chileans of Salvadoreans are at the bottom of the social
> ladder in terms of prestige, status. Canadians or US Anglos don't see
> any differences among Latinos, they just see a homogenized group.
> Unfortunately, Latinos behave like a group of crabs you place in the
> bottom of a barrel, as soon as one crab begins to climb the walls out of
> their metaphoric place of subordination, another crab quickly pulls the
> climbing crab down.
And are you saying that you're at the top Mr.Damocles?
hegemón
Observador
It is the Christian white-mans burden to civilize the savage beast's.
Be they Incas, dinkas, Ass-techs or whatever, they ALL practiced
Cannibalism, So is there any other fitting word to describe them other
than SAVAGES. At least these savages dont parctice wholesale
cannibalism as they once did.
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:27:48 -0800, Damocles <Damo...@espada.com>
wrote:
Observador
Too white, and you are technically PUSsssssss..Ugh!
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:53:43 GMT, "torresD" <torr...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
lho...@mayaninvaders.com
> It is the Christian white-mans burden to civilize the savage beast's.
> Be they Incas, dinkas, Ass-techs or whatever, they ALL practiced
> Cannibalism, So is there any other fitting word to describe them other
> than SAVAGES. At least these savages dont parctice wholesale
> cannibalism as they once did.
And it is our burden, to endure your brand of foolishness.
redflag
Don't mind him, his foolishness is a product of an inferiority complex.
--
"Nowadays, atheism is itself *culpa levis*, as compared
with criticism of existing property relations."
"All history is nothing but a continuous transformation
of human nature."
You can access THE PEOPLE on-line by visiting
our web page at http://www.slp.org
redflag
LOL!!!!!!!!
--
: )
mistel, pliz !
:)
Si hubieran sido PNPs, les hubieran grabado en la chola de los skinheads
el mapa de Mexico, para que supieran a donde largarse despues que los
botemos de donde vayamos. ，si aprenden lo que es Lebensraum!
:)
redflag wrote:
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Marc
> > Like this you can always excuse your own behavior! It reminds me of
> > the Cubans blaming everthing they do themselves on communism. I am
> > sorry to say but I think this excusing behavior and lack of self
> > reflection is typical for some cultures. That is the real problem, not
> > racial discrimination.
> I agree, American culture is to blame.
The culture of blaming somebody else for your problems is to blame.
And you have just confirmed it, "wise guy"! Brilliant! Thanks a lot
for clarifying my point of view!
Steve Barney
"Marc" <marc...@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:840f4b5b.04040...@posting.google.com...
> hegemón <hegemón...@imperio.com> wrote
>
> > > Like this you can always excuse your own behavior! It reminds me of
> > > the Cubans blaming everthing they do themselves on communism. I am
> > > sorry to say but I think this excusing behavior and lack of self
> > > reflection is typical for some cultures. That is the real problem, not
> > > racial discrimination.
>
> > I agree, American culture is to blame.
>
> The culture of blaming somebody else for your problems is to blame.
So you're blaming the culture, not the people ?
hegemón
redflag
Reread what "hegemon" wrote, Einstein.
A "something", not a "somebody" was blamed.
--
hegemón
relativity. He is not related to anything, not even to his feeble brain!
Marc
> > The culture of blaming somebody else for your problems is to blame.
> So you're blaming the culture, not the people ?
People form together a culture. What else.
Marc
> Reread what "hegemon" wrote, Einstein.
> A "something", not a "somebody" was blamed.
The something or somebody is not relevant, what is relevant is not
blaming yourself and not to have a self reflection to improve your own
behavior. With this culture you will stay poor, what ever the
economical system capitalistic or socialistic, or whatever the
political system, democracy or dictatorship.
You can see this to a more or lesser extent everywhere in the
Carebean. In Cuba people blame communism for *all* their problems,
even if some problems are the direct consequence of their own
attitude. The same you see in other countries with more or less the
same culture. But here it is not communism, but the racism of whites.
Of course both Cubans and other people in the Carrebean never have
done something themselves. And we all have got to help them since they
are poor.
: )
of cultures, often at odds with each other. Culture and society are
usually interchangeable terms.
Regards
:)
Marc wrote:
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
Marc
> Actually, it's a little more complicated. Cultures are made of subsets
> of cultures
subcultures?
, often at odds with each other. Culture and society are
> usually interchangeable terms.
Yes, ok.
zefromlogic
Please do not confuse Cuba with Haiti, or any other island in the
Caribbean. You must have been fed communist propaganda of how good
Cuba is today with the Castro's tyranny as compared to Free Cuba from
over 45 years ago and how bad the Cubans are as a people who cannot do
anything for themselves.
Old, pre-Castro Historical documents and movies "DO" in fact exist on
what Cuba and Cubans were like before. Avail yourself of some of those
so you can come up with thoughts based on reality about Cuba and its
people. No Communist or other propaganda can change true historical
facts.
Obviously, you have not/did not live in Cuba before Castro, or at
least not long enough, to write from historical facts.
Judging by your e-mail address, if it reflects where you are writing
from at all, you live far away from the Caribbean and your thoughts
are not clear concerning at least some matters of that part of the
World.
Fact is, whatever free, non Communist country Cubans travel to and
stay, given the opportunity, they not only survive, but thrive and set
up businesses, often surpass the average businesses of that country in
the amount of jobs and productivity they create, and money generated
when compared on a one to one basis.
Would you have blamed each and every citizen of every country in
Europe if Adolph Hitler had succeeded in taking them over?
Would you have said of the peoples of Europe, or any country thereof
then that through their own weaknesses, or because "those" people are,
they could never have fought against Adolph Hitler's military and
therefore they made themselves their own bed?
I think not.
redflag
Marc wrote:
>
> redflag <red...@coqui.net> wrote
>
> > Reread what "hegemon" wrote, Einstein.
>
> > A "something", not a "somebody" was blamed.
>
> The something or somebody is not relevant, what is relevant is not
> blaming yourself and not to have a self reflection to improve your own
> behavior. With this culture you will stay poor, what ever the
> economical system capitalistic or socialistic, or whatever the
> political system, democracy or dictatorship.
Social problems cannot be solved individualy.
You mention poverty as an example. Under capitalism, where the culture
is one of acquisition and possession, the majority live or is under the
threat of living in involuntary poverty and economic insecurity.
That's a social contradiction that no ammount of individual effort
can resolve. Blaming the individual for problems that are built
into the social system is like blaming the little chrome dog on the
hood of the Mac truck that's about to run you over.
Under a social and economic system that is managed democratically
and is geared towards the satisfaction of social wants and needs
poverty would be an entirely a voluntary condition. That is, those who
wished could renounce to material well-being by refusing to work or
simply by working as little as possible.
In contrast, under capitalism, most people who work the hardest are
generally the poorest and, despite their lifetime of hard work have
little to show for it at the end of their life.
Those who do not work or work very litle, the capitalists, generally
are the richest and, at the end of their lives, have enormous wealth
which they leave to their heirs who, in turn, have worked almost
nothing for it.
> You can see this to a more or lesser extent everywhere in the
> Carebean. In Cuba people blame communism for *all* their problems,
> even if some problems are the direct consequence of their own
> attitude. The same you see in other countries with more or less the
> same culture. But here it is not communism, but the racism of whites.
> Of course both Cubans and other people in the Carrebean never have
> done something themselves. And we all have got to help them since they
> are poor.
You don't offer any specific examples of the "problems" people
in Cuba and the Caribbean are supposed to suffer, so I won't
comment on the above paragraph.