La Pagina Del Tribu' Taino Jatibonicu' De Puerto Rico/ The Jatibonicu Taino Tribe Page of Puerto Rico
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
Office of Taino Tribal Affairs <Tribal-...@Taino-Tribe.org> wrote in
message news:37ee...@news.dandy.net...
> Tau Guaitiao/ Hola Amigos,
> La tribu Taino de Jatibonicu de Puerto Rico los
> envita a visitar nuestra pagina tribal Taina del Internet. El Consejo
> Taino De Jatibonicu y los miembros del tribu de Jatibonicu que
> son residentes de los muncipios de Orocovis, Barranquitas,
> Morovis y Aibonito Puerto Rico le dan la bienvenida a la visita
> de nuestra pagina Taina. BIENVENIDOS!
Oh my God, it's almost Halloween again!!! Es hora de sacar los taparrabos
de la gaveta y ponernos a jugar a los inditos otra vez!!!
La verdad es que esta gente no aprende, NADIE LES CREE SUS FANTASIAS!!!
ZAPE!!!
JSP
Kip King
Why do you think this means it is Halloween? Aren't you aware that there
are people of Indian decent in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic.
Dominica, Aruba ect. I'm Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie and not Taino but
I've been aware of the existence of Taino people in modern day Caribbean
countries for a long time.
Kip
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:37EF32AF...@home.com...
> Jaime,
> Why do you think this means it is Halloween? Aren't you aware that there
> are people of Indian decent in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic.
> Dominica, Aruba ect. I'm Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie and not Taino but
> I've been aware of the existence of Taino people in modern day Caribbean
> countries for a long time.
> Kip
Kip, you have been deceived by a group of opportunists. These people are no
more Taino than you are Japanese!!!
Hang around soc.culture.puerto-rico for a while, or look up the Taino topic
in Deja News, and learn from what you will read. These hogwash about
"tribes" of Taino people living in the mountain towns of Puerto Rico may
score them a lot of points among the TRUE Native-American Organizations, but
there is no such thing, and the members of these "Taino" organization have
no more "Taino" blood in them that ANYBODY in Puerto Rico - just vague
genetic remnants from over 300 years ago - although in some of them it
appears that they have been increased through INBREEDING!!!
JSP
Kip King
I am aware that most Puerto Ricans have Indian blood but, isn't it
possible that some people of Indian decent from Puerto Rico identify as
Indian? A few year ago I was at the house of a Mexican-American man who,
was a friend of a friend, for the first time. The man whose house it was
was light skinned and blue-eyed. A very Indian looking man who was there
and, knew I was Indian, made an insulting remark about Indians. I didn't
want to do anything because, the only one there who I knew was the man
whose house it was and, I thought everyone else might back the insulting
guy up. The man whose house it was diffused the situation by saying that
his grandfather was Yaqui. My point is, that I've noticed that many
people from a Hispanic background have been raised to dow play their non
white heritage. For instance in Cuba, many more people acknowledge
having some African ancestry than most Cuban-Americans do. Many
Cuban-Americans would have you believe that they are pure Spanish, when
in reality most have some degree of African ancestry. I think it's
better, especially better for us non whites, when people at least
acknowledge or claim their non white heritage.
Kip King
Kip King
JRDelirious(Jose Diaz)
Kip King wrote in message <37EF4998...@home.com>...
>JSP,
>I am aware that most Puerto Ricans have Indian blood but, isn't it
>possible that some people of Indian decent from Puerto Rico identify as
>Indian?
>
>> >>
>> Kip, you have been deceived by a group of opportunists. These people are
no
>> more Taino than you are Japanese!!!
>>
Kip, what happens is, that while it may be true that (specially in Western
PR) there may be a larger-than-suspected Taino component in the descent of
our population, and that there may be *individuals* who identify more with
the Taino heritage, there has not, for CENTURIES, been any organized,
distinct, recognizable Taino "tribe" dwelling among us, living the Taino
ways. Amont the Puerto Ricans it is specially vexing to read what these
guys have to say about having a Tribal Council, etc., as it is pretty damn
hard to hide an entire nation in such small land.
Contrary to popular belief, the Taino in PR were not 100%
final-solution-style exterminated, but by the last time they were counted
(late 1700's) the couple of thousand "indios" remaining (in the mountains of
the West, mostly) were essentially Spanish-speaking Catholics, the
identifier "indio" referring to mixed-race, mostly. They probably held some
indian folk traditions and social customs but hardly identified themselves
as tribes.
Unless they have pulled off one of the most spectacular feats of maintaining
an "underground" culture in human history, the Jatibonuco-ans and their like
are perceived in the Island as, at best, a bunch of new-ager eccentrics who,
upon noticing the Taino component in their heritage, thought "Wow! This is
WAY kEwL!" and decided to go for it. There is a strong suspicion that
their "Tribal ways" are fanciful after-the-fact reconstructions arrived at
partly by reading the old Spanish Chronicles and Ricardo Alegrias' works,
partly by studying the modern-day Arawaks of South American, and partly by
copycatting the ways of other living Native Peoples.
JRD
Kip King
There are several Indian tribes in the United States that have very
small amounts of Indian blood. The Pequots who have the world's largest
casino, in Connecticut, have very little Indian blood or traditional
culture. By the way, Indian culture is whatever Indian people have today
not something from a history book. Indian cultures have changed over the
years just as non Indian cultures have. No one would expect non Indian
people to dress or act as their ancestors did hundreds of years ago. Why
can't they accept that we Indians are modern people who are part of
modern life as much as any other people? I'm using a computer and drive
a car. Does that make my identity any less Indian? Back a couple of
years ago when, they still had affirmative action here in California, a
man who was an Oklahoma Cherokee got a set-aside construction contract
reserved for minorities. He was challenged in court by some black people
who said because he only had 1/256th Indian blood he was not a "real"
minority. The court ruled in his favor saying that he was Indian because
he was recognized by his tribe as Indian. The Wyandots are a tribe in
Oklahoma in which almost all the members are less than 1/16th Indian
blood. Are they any less legitimately Indian? Heather Locklear is a blue
eyed, blond haired Lumbee Indian actress. She earlier this year,
received an award in Los Angeles for Indian actress of the year. Isn't
she Indian? I think many non Indians think of us as people of the past,
doomed to eventual extinction. If the Scottish for example, were held to
some standard of blood quantum, there wouldn't be any more Scottish
people. After all, they almost all have large amount of English and
Norman blood. Does that make them less Scottish? Indian (and any other)
people survive by absorbing blood and culture from other people not, by
trying to stay "pure". By the way someone else earlier in this thread
said something about "inbreeding". The truth is that all people, whether
they recognize it or not, are "inbred". In the middle ages there were
only about 55 million people on earth. Now there are about 5.5 billion.
about 100 times as much. We all marry distant or not so distant
relatives.
Kip King
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> JRD,
> There are several Indian tribes in the United States that have very
> small amounts of Indian blood.
Good for them, Kip!!! But the fact is that NONE of the Tainos from
Jatibonuco have ANY proof of ANY "indian" blood in their ancestry!!!
By the way, Kip, it is quite amusing that once before we had someone
materialize out of thin air to defend the supposed "Tainos" of New Jersey,
and it turned out to be one of them acting "incognito" and posing as a
supposed "American Indian".
How was he discovered? Because no self-respecting Native-American would
EVER refer to himself or his people or any other tribe as "Indian"!!! That
word is as INSULTING to TRUE Native-Americans as the word NIGGER is to
African-Americans!!!
It's quite amusing that YOU, being a "Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie"
CONSTANTLY used that cursed word in reference to yourself and other Tribes.
Like the Great Chief Arsenio used to say; "These are things that make you go
HMMMMMMMM!!!"
JSP
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> JSP, I am aware that most Puerto Ricans have Indian blood . . .
WRONG!!! Most people in Puerto Rico are direct descendants of European
settlers and African slaves who arrived in Puerto Rico long after the last
"Taino" was dead and buried. As I mentioned, there are SOME members of our
population who carry traces of mitochondrial DNA from Taino ancestry, just
as ALL humans carry traces of mitochondrial DNA from the first African
Homonid species, but THAT DOES NOT MAKE US ALL AFRICANS, does it??? Can you
understand the difference?
> My point is, that I've noticed that many people from a Hispanic
> background have been raised to dow play their non-white heritage.
That may be so of some of the people that you know, but let me tell you that
in Puerto Rico we, in general, are very proud of our "non-white" heritage.
But a "heritage" and being a "descendant" are two very different things!
We have a very colorful and LIVING heritage from African slaves that arrived
on our shores when they came to replace the "indian" workforce which was
decimated by disease and brought to the brink of "extinction" more than 300
years ago. We are proud of that LIVING heritage from our African component
of our population.
What we cannot have is someone perpetuate the MYTH that there is such a
LIVING heritage of "Taino" descent in Puerto Rico, because there is NONE now
and there hasn't been any in OVER 400 YEARS!!! Read the message by Jose
Diaz for a complete explenation.
We cannot deny what DOES NOT EXIST!!!
These "Taino Wannabes" are just a bunch of opportunists who are looking for
their 15 minutes of fame and are living a life akin to that of the Star Trek
fanatics who attend conventions dressed as Klingons, Vulcans and Romulans,
with the one difference that these jerks have found some even bigger fools
that they, who are willing to support them and lend credence to their claim
of "Taino" descent.
Look up the claim by their Chief Sitting Bullshit (a.k.a. Pedro Torres) who
claims to be a Great-grandson of a Taino "Cacique" who died close to 500
years ago!!! Check the topic on DejaNews, we already did the math and the
claim is LUDICROUS!!!
This man seems to be a direct descendant of P.T. Barnum, who said; "THERE'S
A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE"!!! It seems that he has found lots of them
since he "surfaced" in October 1992!!!
DON'T BE ONE OF THEM, KIP!!! Do your homework and learn the truth!!! We
have been doing so here since the first time that we encountered the "Lost
Taino Tribe of New Jersey" almost two years ago. LOOK IT UP!!!
JSP
For instance in Cuba, many more people acknowledge
> having some African ancestry than most Cuban-Americans do. Many
> Cuban-Americans would have you believe that they are pure Spanish, when
> in reality most have some degree of African ancestry. I think it's
> better, especially better for us non whites, when people at least
> acknowledge or claim their non white heritage.
> Kip King
>
> "Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
> >
> > Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:37EF32AF...@home.com...
> > > Jaime,
> > > Why do you think this means it is Halloween? Aren't you aware that
there
> > > are people of Indian decent in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic.
> > > Dominica, Aruba ect. I'm Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie and not Taino
but
> > > I've been aware of the existence of Taino people in modern day
Caribbean
> > > countries for a long time.
> > > Kip
> >
> > Kip, you have been deceived by a group of opportunists. These people
are no
> > more Taino than you are Japanese!!!
> >
Jose (JRDelirio) Diaz
nationality or folk, or to artificially reconstitute a society that
collapsed into assimilation, that's no skin off my nose. Best wishes to
them all, and God bless them. But don't try to sell me on that it's been
that way all along. The problem we have with the TaiNewJerseynos is that
absurd claim that they represent some "tribe" from the mountains of
Jatibonuco where no one has spotted a "tribe" of anything in centuries.
JRD
Kip King
If you check out alt.native you'll find that most people from U.S.
tribes prefer the term Indian and dislike the term Native American
because it implies Native United Statesian and cuts us off from the
other original people of the Americas. Native American has NEVER been
the prefered term. We were killed as Indians and had our land and
culture stolen as Indians. Native American is just a PC tern prefered by
liberal whites. I don't know any Indians that prefer the term Native
American. Native American is just a term whites use to try to take our
history away. You are very mistaken.
Kip King
"Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
>
> Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
Kip King
I fail to understand why Indians need to have a continuous political
history to be Indian when whites and blacks don't need a continuous
political history to be white or black.
Kip King
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> JSP,
> If you check out alt.native you'll find that most people
And what part of "India" are you from???
> . . . and dislike the term Native American because it implies
> Native United Statesian and cuts us off from the other original
> people of the Americas.
So "American" means from the "United States" and not from "America"???
There you are, folks!!! You heard it straight from the horse's mouth!!! An
"Indian" has told all of us that it's alright to use the term "American" to
apply exclusively to people from the United States! The rest of "America",
North, Central and South can find something else to call themselves!!!
Please, Kip, don't stop now that you're on a roll! It gets better with
every message!!!
I'll make sure to tell all of my Navajo friends from New Mexico and Arizona
that you said it was alright to call them "Indians". I'm sure that they
won't mind, since it's approved by ALL of you "Indians"!!! I hope that they
got the memo!!!
JSP
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> I fail to understand why Indians need to have a continuous
> political history to be Indian when whites and blacks don't
> need a continuous political history to be white or black.
No one is saying that they "need to have a continuous political history",
what they need to have is continuous EXISTENCE!!! It would be greatr if I
could claim to be the heir to the throne of the Egyptian Pharaos, but who
would believe me if I came up aout of the blue with such a claim in 1999???
Then why is it any easier to beleive that a "lost" tribe of "Tainos"
surfaced in October 1992, during the celebartion of the 500th anniversary of
the Columbus Voyages, when there wasn't ANY indication for hundresd of years
that any such "tribe" existed???
Like Jose Diaz said, you can beleive what you want, just don't do it on my
dollar, and don't expect for me to sir quietly while more and more people
are taken in by these charlatans and con-artists!!!
The TRUE "Indians" of the Americas don't need to have these IMPOSTORS among
them ruining their good name!!!
JSP
Kip King
Two questions: Are there any people in Puerto Rico of Indian descent? If
so, why aren't they Indian?
Kip King
Kip King
Columbus came here, what is now called India was called Hindustan. If
you doubt that the vast majority of Indians would rather be called
Indians than Native Americans, ask the question on alt.native which is
by far the most active Indian newsgroup. We just had a debate with some
ignorant white guy who thought we should be called Native Americans. By
the way, I post there all the time and everybody knows me. Whatever your
disagreement with me on this issue of Puerto Rico believe me Indians
(NDN's) prefer that term to Native American.
Kip King
"Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
>
> Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> JSP,
> Two questions: Are there any people in Puerto Rico of Indian descent? If
> so, why aren't they Indian?
> Kip King
No there aren't. Contrary to the United States, the "Indian" population of
Puerto Rico was not set aside in reservations to live by themselves,
ostracized from the rest of the population. Our "Indians" were used for
slave labor by the "Conquistadores" until they basically died out and
Africans were brought to replace them.
The few individuals who survived did not set up independent communities in
the mountains of Puerto Rico, like the "New Jersey Tainos" would have you
believe. They joined the population and today, 400 years later, their
"bloodline" is basically untraceable except through genetic testing for
mitochondrial DNA. After 400 years, an individual has more than 480
"ancestors" in their bloodline, and having ONE of those 480 being a Taino
does NOT make you a Taino, just as if one of your
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents was Chinese
does not make you Kung-Fu!!!
JSP
CNR
puertoricans begin to acknowledge their native ancestry, they are
immediately attacked by others that claim that puertoricans are only
blacks. You seem to forget that African slaves were a late entry into
the island. Most, if not all, books written on Puerto Rico state that
African Slaves were introduced into the island during the late 1700's.
Which means that the local native peoples were used as slaves. There
are books that are a collection of letters from monks of that period
which dead with native slavery that you should read.
As a person of mixed blood, I am often mistaken for a Puertoricans,
especially by may puertoricans. When I try to explain that I am not,
they often turn hostile and claim that I am trying to be white. Then,
when I try to explain that I am of Navajo and Catalonian mix, they then
claim that I am trying to be white and am ashamed of my black side.
Several times I have been physically assaulted by these people. I can
not help the way that I look, this comes about by the mixing of my
parents genes. My father's family are all blonde haired, blue eyed and
white skinned. My mother's family are all black haired, dark eyed and
dark skinned. The fact that I am mistaken for a Puertoricans makes me
come to the conclusion that your people are more Native than African.
Nizhoni,
Carlos
JRDelirious(Jose Diaz)
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon wrote in message ...
>Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:37F057A0...@home.com...
>> JSP,
>> Two questions: Are there any people in Puerto Rico of Indian descent? If
>> so, why aren't they Indian?
>> Kip King
>
>Puerto Rico was not set aside in reservations to live by themselves,
>ostracized from the rest of the population.
>
>the mountains of Puerto Rico, like the "New Jersey Tainos" would have you
>believe. They joined the population
>After 400 years, an individual has more than 480
>"ancestors" in their bloodline, and having ONE of those 480 being a Taino
>does NOT make you a Taino, just as if one of your
>great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents was Chinese
>does not make you Kung-Fu!!!
>
>JSP
And may I add, in response to Kip, (and Jaime knows from my previous
postings on the issue) I readily recognize the existence of persons of mixed
"Amerindian" ancestry among us. But that, in and of itself, does not make
you a "Taino". And it's not a question of a quantum of blood descent
either -- the Old South rule of "a single drop of blood" and all that is BS:
DNA alone doesn't laugh, cry, write poetry, fight in battles, etc., living
individuals do. It's not just a question of continuous "political" existence
either, but of continuous CONSCIOUSness of DISTINCT [NOT necessarily
"unchanged"] social and cultural identity, values and worldview.
An emphasis on Taino elements of the PR Heritage has been going on since the
early 50's, since the founder of the Institute of Puerto Rican Culture is
himself professionally an authority on the Precolumbian Taino and personally
an advocate of the many-living-descendants school. So it would surprise
no-one to find people or even whole families with a renewed pride of their
Taino heritage, be it great or small, by real ancestral descent or by
adopted cultural affinity. No problem with that. No problem with
artificially re-constituting a "tribe" to celebrate said heritage, either.
BIG problem with the TIC's apparent implication that there *has* been an
actual tribe in "underground" existence all along: *they* are the ones
claiming continuity, it takes more than just their word.
JRD
Kip King
In that case I don't think there are Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. If
you'll read back over this thread carefully you'll see that I never did
insist that there were. However if you'll look in on alt.native you'll
see the people they always call themslves either by ther tribal name or
Indian (NDN) never Native American. That's a term only non Indian PC
liberals use.
Kip King
"Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
>
> Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:37F057A0...@home.com...
> > JSP,
> > Two questions: Are there any people in Puerto Rico of Indian descent? If
> > so, why aren't they Indian?
> > Kip King
>
> No there aren't. Contrary to the United States, the "Indian" population of
> Puerto Rico was not set aside in reservations to live by themselves,
> ostracized from the rest of the population. Our "Indians" were used for
> slave labor by the "Conquistadores" until they basically died out and
> Africans were brought to replace them.
>
> The few individuals who survived did not set up independent communities in
> the mountains of Puerto Rico, like the "New Jersey Tainos" would have you
> believe. They joined the population and today, 400 years later, their
> "bloodline" is basically untraceable except through genetic testing for
> mitochondrial DNA. After 400 years, an individual has more than 480
Kip King
As I already said to JSP, I now don't think it's possible that there are
Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. If you'll read back over this thread
if you'll look in on alt.native you'll see that the people there always
call themselves either by there tribal name or Indian (NDN) never Native
American. That's a term only non Indian PC liberals use.
Kip King
"JRDelirious(Jose Diaz)" wrote:
>
> Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon wrote in message ...
> >Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
> >news:37F057A0...@home.com...
> >> JSP,
> >> Two questions: Are there any people in Puerto Rico of Indian descent? If
> >> so, why aren't they Indian?
> >> Kip King
> >
> >Contrary to the United States, the "Indian" population of
> >Puerto Rico was not set aside in reservations to live by themselves,
> >ostracized from the rest of the population.
> >
> >The few individuals who survived did not set up independent communities in
> >the mountains of Puerto Rico, like the "New Jersey Tainos" would have you
> >believe. They joined the population
>
> >After 400 years, an individual has more than 480
> >"ancestors" in their bloodline, and having ONE of those 480 being a Taino
> >does NOT make you a Taino, just as if one of your
> >great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents was Chinese
> >does not make you Kung-Fu!!!
> >
> >JSP
>
Eitel Sanchez
> JRD,
> As I already said to JSP, I now don't think it's possible that there are
> Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. If you'll read back over this thread
> carefully, you'll see that I never did insist that there were.
You didn't said that? Wonder who wrote this them?
>Kip King wrote in message
> Jaime,
> Why do you think this means it is Halloween? Aren't you aware that there
> are people of Indian decent in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic.
> Dominica, Aruba ect. I'm Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie and not Taino but
> I've been aware of the existence of Taino people in modern day Caribbean
> countries for a long time.
> Kip
Thanks God that it wasn't you.
Eitel Sanchez
jrv
info/facts about Cuba
Population
The Cuban population is made up mainly of three groups. Approximately 66 percent of the population is white and mainly of Spanish descent; 22 percent is of mixed racial heritage and 12 percent is black. Almost all of the people are native-born. More than 75 percent of the population is classified as urban. The revolutionary government, installed in 1959, has generally destroyed the rigid social stratification inherited from Spanish colonial rule.
Population Characteristics, Religion, and Language
The population of Cuba at the 1981 census was 9,723,605; the estimated population in 1995 was 11,091,000, giving the country a population density of about 97 persons per sq km (about 251 per sq mi). Professed Roman Catholics have declined from more than 70 percent to about 33 percent of the population since 1957. Among Protestants, about 1 percent of Cubans, Pentecostalism is the predominant tradition. About 50 percent of Cubans consider themselves nonreligious. Spanish is the official language of Cuba.
Microsoft Encarta 97 Enciclopedia
>possible that some people of Indian decent from Puerto Rico identify as
>was a friend of a friend, for the first time. The man whose house it was
>was light skinned and blue-eyed. A very Indian looking man who was there
>and, knew I was Indian, made an insulting remark about Indians. I didn't
>want to do anything because, the only one there who I knew was the man
>whose house it was and, I thought everyone else might back the insulting
>guy up. The man whose house it was diffused the situation by saying that
>people from a Hispanic background have been raised to dow play their non
>having some African ancestry than most Cuban-Americans do. Many
>Cuban-Americans would have you believe that they are pure Spanish, when
>in reality most have some degree of African ancestry. I think it's
>better, especially better for us non whites, when people at least
>acknowledge or claim their non white heritage.
>
>"Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
>>
>> > Jaime,
>> > Why do you think this means it is Halloween? Aren't you aware that there
>> > are people of Indian decent in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic.
>> > Dominica, Aruba ect. I'm Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie and not Taino but
>> > I've been aware of the existence of Taino people in modern day Caribbean
>> > countries for a long time.
>> > Kip
>>
jrv
Argentina
Population
About 85 percent of the population is of European origin
. Unlike most Latin American countries, Argentina has relatively few mestizos (persons of mixed European and Native American ancestry), although their number has increased in recent times. European immigration continues to be officially encouraged; from 1850 to 1940, some 6,608,700 Europeans settled in the country. Spanish and Italian immigrants have predominated, with significant numbers of French, British, German, Russian, Polish, Syrian, and other South American immigrants. More than one-third of the population lives in or around Buenos Aires; about 87 percent of the people live in urban areas.Population Characteristics
According to the 1991 census, Argentina had a population of 32,663,983. The 1995 estimated population is 34,264,000, giving the country an overall population density of about 12 persons per sq km (about 32 per sq mi) in 1995.
Brazil
Population
Four major groups make up the Brazilian population: Native Americans, who live primarily in the northern and western border regions; the Portuguese, whose ancestors began colonizing the country in the 16th century; Africans, whose ancestors were brought to Brazil as slaves; and various European and Asian immigrant groups that came to the country beginning in the 19th century. People of European descent, primarily Portuguese, Italian, and Spanish, compose 54 percent of the population. About 39 percent are mulattoes, those with mixed African and European ancestry, or mestizos, those with mixed European and Native American heritage. About 6 percent are mixed black and Native American and 1 percent are Asian. Those with full Native American ancestry constitute about 0.2 percent of the population.
Population Characteristics
The population of Brazil was 146,154,502 at the 1991 census. The 1995 estimate was 161,382,000, giving the country an overall population density of about 19 persons per sq km (about 49 per sq mi). About 79 percent of Brazil's people live in urban areas. About 80 percent of the population lives within about 320 km (about 200 mi) of the Atlantic coast.
Cuba
Population
The Cuban population is made up mainly of three groups. Approximately 66 percent of the population is white and mainly of Spanish descent; 22 percent is of mixed racial heritage and 12 percent is black. Almost all of the people are native-born. More than 75 percent of the population is classified as urban. The revolutionary government, installed in 1959, has generally destroyed the rigid social stratification inherited from Spanish colonial rule.
Population Characteristics, Religion, and Language
The population of Cuba at the 1981 census was 9,723,605; the estimated population in 1995 was 11,091,000, giving the country a population density of about 97 persons per sq km (about 251 per sq mi). Professed Roman Catholics have declined from more than 70 percent to about 33 percent of the population since 1957. Among Protestants, about 1 percent of Cubans, Pentecostalism is the predominant tradition. About 50 percent of Cubans consider themselves nonreligious. Spanish is the official language of Cuba.
Uruguay
Population
The people of Uruguay are predominantly of European origin, many of them foreign-born, and come chiefly from Spain and Italy and also from Brazil, Argentina, and France
. Only about 5 to 10 percent are mestizos, persons of mixed European and Native American ancestry. None of the small original Native American population remains.Population Characteristics
The population of Uruguay (1995 estimate) is 3,186,000. The average population density is about 18 persons per sq km (about 47 per sq mi). The population is concentrated near the coast. Only about 10 percent of the population is rural.
Costa Rica
Population
A majority of the people of Costa Rica are of European (largely Spanish) descent
. Whites and mestizos (people of mixed Spanish and Native American ancestry) account for about 96 percent of the population; the small black community is largely of Jamaican origin. About 50 percent of the population is defined as rural. Spanish is the official language, but English is also spoken by many educated people and some of the ethnic Jamaicans. Roman Catholicism is the state religion, but freedom of worship is guaranteed by the constitution.Population Characteristics
The population of Costa Rica (1995 estimate) is about 3,424,000, giving the country an estimated overall population density of about 67 persons per sq km (about 174 per sq mi).
Political Divisions
Costa Rica is divided into seven provinces: San José, Alajuela, Cartago, Puntarenas, Guanacaste, Heredia, and Limón. Each of the provinces has a governor appointed by the president.
Chile
Population
Compared with other South American countries, Chile has a population that is relatively homogeneous. The early Spanish settlers intermarried with the Native Americans, notably the Araucanian; their descendants, the mestizos, constitute more than 92 percent of the current population. European immigration has not been as important in Chile as in other countries of the Americas; immigration was only mildly encouraged in the 19th century. German immigrants have, however, been an important influence in the Valdivia-Puerto Montt area. Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Great Britain, the former Yugoslavia, and France have also made significant contributions to the population. Today less than 2 percent of the country's population is of unmixed European stock. Only 6 percent of the population is pure Native American, mainly Araucanians who are concentrated in the southern region.
Population Characteristics
The population of Chile at the 1992 census was 13,321,803. The 1995 estimated population is 14,237,000, giving the country an overall population density of about 19 people per sq km (about 49 per sq mi). Some nine-tenths of the people live in the central region between Concepción and La Serena. The average annual rate of increase during the early 1990s was 1.5 percent. About 86 percent of the population lives in urban centers, and nearly one-third of the country's entire population lives in the capital city of Santiago. Communities both in the south and in the northern desert are generally isolated and separated by vast, virtually unpopulated stretches.
Dominican Republic
Population
Most of the population of the Dominican Republic is of mixed Spanish and black-African descent.
The society is about 65 percent urban.Population Characteristics
The population of the Dominican Republic (1995 estimate) is about 7,915,000, giving the country an overall population density of about 162 persons per sq km (about 421 per sq mi).
Political Divisions and Principal Cities
The Dominican Republic is divided into 29 provinces plus the Distrito Nacional (National District), which encompasses Santo Domingo, the capital. The provinces are subdivided into municipalities and townships.
Santo Domingo
, also the leading port, had an estimated population of 2,400,000 in 1994. Other important cities include Santiago or Santiago de los Caballeros (1994; 500,000), a trade and transportation center; San Pedro de Macorís (1991 estimate; 137,000), a seaport; and San Francisco de Macorís (1991 estimate; 162,000) and Barahona (1981; 49,334), both agricultural trade centers.Venezuela
Population
About 67 percent of the population of Venezuela is made up of mestizos
(people of mixed European and Native American ancestry), and some 21 percent is of white descent. The remainder is predominantly black, and about 2 percent of the total population is unmixed Native American. The society is 93 percent urban. Spanish is the official language of the country. The principal religion is Roman Catholicism.Population Characteristics
The Venezuelan population (1995 estimate) is about 21,483,000, giving the country an overall population density of about 24 persons per sq km (61 per sq mi). About 80 percent of the population lives in the northern highlands or coastal regions. Only about 5 percent inhabits the huge area (nearly 50 percent of the total land area) south of the Orinoco River. Native Americans living in the jungles were estimated to number about 53,500 in 1981.
Political Divisions
Venezuela is divided into 22 states; the federal dependencies, which comprise 72 islands in the Caribbean; and the Distrito Federal (Federal District), site of Caracas, the national capital.
Microsoft Encarta 97 Enciclopedia
Kip King
Okay, I'll concede that I did say there were people of Indian descent in
Puerto Rico. According to what I've heard here there are people of
Indian DESCENT and descent only in Puerto Rico.
Kip King
Eitel Sanchez wrote:
>
> Kip King <wod...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:37F0EA07...@home.com...
> > JRD,
> > As I already said to JSP, I now don't think it's possible that there are
> > Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. If you'll read back over this thread
> > carefully, you'll see that I never did insist that there were.
>
> You didn't said that? Wonder who wrote this them?
>
> >Kip King wrote in message
> > Jaime,
> > Why do you think this means it is Halloween? Aren't you aware that there
> > are people of Indian decent in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic.
> > Dominica, Aruba ect. I'm Cherokee and Delaware-Muncie and not Taino but
> > I've been aware of the existence of Taino people in modern day Caribbean
> > countries for a long time.
> > Kip
>
Kip King
Thanks for this. I funny that about 90% of Cuban Americans claim to be
pure Spanish. I've always thought that was wishful thinking on their
part.
Kip King
> jrv wrote:
>
> I would like to share some info/facts about a few "Hispanic" countries
> with you.....enjoy it!!!!!!
>
>
> Argentina
>
> Population
>
> mestizos, persons of mixed European and Native American ancestry. None
> of the small original Native American population remains.
>
> Population Characteristics
>
> The population of Uruguay (1995 estimate) is 3,186,000. The average
> population density is about 18 persons per sq km (about 47 per sq mi).
> The population is concentrated near the coast. Only about 10 percent
> of the population is rural.
>
> Costa Rica
>
> Population
>
> A majority of the people of Costa Rica are of European (largely
Kip King
Thanks. This was very informative.
Kip King
jrv
donde quiera....yo como buen Bohuti invito a todos los Nitainos y a los
Naborias como buenos Guaitiaos a meternos un poquito de Cohoba de la buena
(la de Niujersiey) y nos montemos en la canoa aerea hasta llegar a
Coaybay....
http://angelfire.com/ct/taino/index.html
Cacique Juantoitonow4U!
Office of Taino Tribal Affairs wrote in message <37ee...@news.dandy.net>...
>
>Tau Guaitiao/ Hola Amigos,
>
> La tribu Taino de Jatibonicu de Puerto Rico los
>envita a visitar nuestra pagina tribal Taina del Internet. El Consejo
>Taino De Jatibonicu y los miembros del tribu de Jatibonicu que
>son residentes de los muncipios de Orocovis, Barranquitas,
>Morovis y Aibonito Puerto Rico le dan la bienvenida a la visita
>de nuestra pagina Taina. BIENVENIDOS!
>
>La Pagina Taina http://www.Taino-Tribe.Org/jatiboni.html
>
>Sinceramente,
>Señora Sylvia Inaruki Collazo, Relaciones Publicas
>Oficina de Asuntos Tribal Taino (Representante Tribal)
>El Gobierno del Consejo Taino de Jatibonicu/Turabo
>
>Departamentos del Gobierno Tribal Taino
>Tribal-...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Legal-...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Cultural...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Tribal-E...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Public-R...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>:
>El Consejo Taino De Jatibonicu'
>Apartado PO Box #253
>Orocovis, Puerto Rico 00720-253
>:
>La Tribu Taino Jatibonicu' De Boriken
>http://www.Taino-Tribe.org/jatiboni.html
>:
>Unite: Web Ring Del Indio Taino Americano
>: http://www.Taino-Tribe.org/tainowr.html
>:
>Afiliacion Tribal: La Tribu Taino Jatibonicu/' de Boriken
> " La Gan Gente de las Aguas Altas Sagradas"
>
>Decho De Tribu: "Como La Montaña Somos Sololitaros"
>
>
>Tau Guaitiao/ Hello Friends,
>
> The Taino tribe of Jatibonicu of Puerto Rico
>invites you to visit our Internet Tribal Home page. The Taino
>Council of Jatibonicu and its Jatibonicu tribal members who
>are residents of the municipalities of Orocovis, Baranquitas,
>Morovis and Aibonito Puerto Rico give you a warm welcome
>to our Taino home page. WELCOME!
>
>The Taino Page http://www.Taino-Tribe.Org/jatiboni.html
>
>Sincerely,
>Ms. Sylvia Inaruki Collazo, Public Relations Officer
>Office of Taino Tribal Affairs (Tribal Representative)
>The Jatibonicu' Taino Tribal Council Government
>
>Taino Tribal Government Departments
>Tribal-...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Legal-...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Cultural...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Public-R...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>Tribal-E...@Taino-Tribe.Org
>:
>Taino Tribal Council of Jatibonicu'
>US Regional Tribal Affairs Office
>703 South Eight Street
>Vineland, New Jersey 08360
>:
>Voice:..(856) 690-1565
>Fax:.... .(856) 825-7776
>:
>Jatibonicu' Taino Tribal Home Page (PR)
>http://www.Taino-Tribe.Org/jatiboni.html
>
>Southern Jersey Taino Band of Jatibonicu (NJ)
>http://www.hartford-hwp.com/taino/jatibonuco.html
>:
>Join: The Taino American Indian Web Ring
>: http://www.Taino-Tribe.Org/tainowr.html
>:
>Tribal Affiliation:: Taino People or Nation
> Jatibonicu' Taino Tribe of Boriken
>Great People of The Sacred High Waters
>:
>Tribal Motto: "Like A Mountain We Stand Alone"
>
>
>
>
Jorge Franchi
>I funny that about 90% of Cuban Americans claim to be
>pure Spanish. I've always thought that was wishful thinking on their
>part.
Cubans that left the island in the 60's are indeed 90% of Spanish descent.
However, it is different now considering that Castro's revolution relocated
blacks to populated cities such as Havana.
Jorge Franchi
Kip King
Jorge Franchi wrote:
>
> Kip King wrote in message...
>
> >I funny that about 90% of Cuban Americans claim to be
> >pure Spanish. I've always thought that was wishful thinking on their
> >part.
>
Kip King
Jorge Franchi wrote:
>
> Kip King wrote in message...
>
> >I funny that about 90% of Cuban Americans claim to be
> >pure Spanish. I've always thought that was wishful thinking on their
> >part.
>
Jorge Franchi
>90% PURE Spanish?
Yes, since many of them (in the 60s) were first or second generation Cuban of
Spanish heritage. Just like many Miami Cubans were born in the USA but have
Cuban parents or grandparents.
Just a little bit of history...
Jorge Franchi
Kip King
Thanks for the info.
Kip King
Larry Daley
However, the Taino bloodlines still are found among the families living in
the green mountains of old Oriente Province.
Larry
On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Jorge Franchi wrote:
> Kip King wrote in message...
>
> >I funny that about 90% of Cuban Americans claim to be
> >pure Spanish. I've always thought that was wishful thinking on their
> >part.
>
Jorge Franchi
>However, the Taino bloodlines still are found among the families
>living in the green mountains of old Oriente Province.
Perhaps ... however, I do know that *there are no tainos left* in Puerto Rico.
Y menos todavia en New Jersey!!!
Jorge Franchi
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
I have a couple of questions:
1. The Tribal Motto: "Like A Mountain We Stand Alone"
implies that you want to remain "pure" Taino and disdain interracial
marriages?
2. Have you seen the beautiful "Taina" on TV?
3. Do you want a separate nation or feel comfortable the way Tainos are?
I truly enjoyed this rich and magnificently done web site!
Thank you and best wishes.
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:7sr48q$s4c$1...@news.fsu.edu...
> Yes, since many of them (in the 60s) were first or second
> generation Cuban of Spanish heritage.
That and the fact that the vast majority of the Cubans who migrated to the
US in the early 60's were the upper-class echolon who could afford to
escape. Most of these families had maintained their "purity" because Cuban
high society was, in general terms, very "racist".
Like I said in a previous message, you can't deny what doesn't exist.
JSP
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
> Eitel,
> Okay, I'll concede that I did say there were people of Indian descent in
> Puerto Rico. According to what I've heard here there are people of
> Indian DESCENT and descent only in Puerto Rico.
Rule Number 1: Don't believe everything that you read!!!
JSP
Q-k...@webtv.net
datos y he confirmado lo que ya sabia. Eso de indios tainos en el PR
moderno es GUAAAAAASA..Respetuosamente
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:37F0D0BD...@columbia.edu...
> Why is it that you puertoricans hate your native blood? Every time some
> puertoricans begin to acknowledge their native ancestry, they are
> immediately attacked by others that claim that puertoricans are only
> blacks.
Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that CULTURAL HERITAGE
and GENETIC BLOODLINE are two different things??? Puerto Rico's CULTURE is
composed of elements of ALL of the cultures that have inhabited this
beautiful land. We have CULTURAL contributions from the Taino culture, the
African culture and the Spanish/white culture, which all intermingled here
to become what we call here Puertorican Culture. But GENETIC BLOODLINES are
another story! A bloodline is not eternal, it may die out if a particular
individual does not reproduce, and it is "watered-down" when it intermingles
with elements from other bloodlines. For example, you may be a "direct
descendant" of a Spanish family if your grandfather was from Spain, and at
the same time a direct descendant of African slaves if your grandmother had
African ancestors. You can be a "direct descendant" OF BOTH, one does not
cancel the other out! In such a case you could NOT claim to be pure "white"
or Spanish, because there is African blood in your bloodline.
But the "New Jersey Tainos" claim to be DIRECT AND EXCLUSIVE DESCENDANTS
from a Taino tribe which escaped extermination and assimilation and lived
hidden for centuries in the mountains of Puerto Rico. THAT is their mistake
and THAT is the deception which they attempt to perpetrate on the gullible
public. THEY are the ones who are denying ANY OTHER ANCESTRY other than
Taino. I am simply stating that it is a historical, physical, logical and
genetic IMPOSSIBILITY for their story to be true!!!
Can you imagine the degree of INBREEDING that would exist among members of
that "lost tribe" if this were true? Then again, maybe THAT explains it
all!!!
>The fact that I am mistaken for a Puertoricans makes me
> come to the conclusion that your people are more Native
> than African.
And I imagine that the fact that a frog jumps makes you come to the
conclusion that it is made out of rubber??? COOL!!!
JSP
Larry Daley
let us leave that until the DNA analysis come in
Larry
On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Jorge Franchi wrote:
Larry Daley
La colonializacion Espa~nola era de mayoria migracion masculina en
proporciones de nueve a uno.
Por eso se decia
"manda abuela para la cocina que viene visitas"
Los certificados de pureza de sangre eran firmado por los vecinos,
quienes a su vez tenia certificados firmados por sus vecinos.
No es en balde que en Cuba se decia
"Saca certificado"
cuando uno se quemaba demasiado del
sol
y tambien se decia "El que no tiene de Congo lo tiene de Carabali"
Los certificados de matrimonio decian "de la clase de blancos" no
decian "blancos," o sea ser 'de la clase de blancos" indicaba
nivels economico no racial
Los Cubanos no eran como los Argentinos que se jactan de ser blancos, por
ascendencia Italiana sin reconcer que de Italia a Africa es un pasito en
bote. Y me rio de los Argentinos pues entre ellos como entre los
Italianos que los hombres pierden las pasas cuando se vuelven calvos.
Pues si Africa empieza en los Pirineos, tambien surge a lo largo de los
Apeninos.
Larry
Golem
Hoboken, kick their pseudo-Taino asses & steal their women, just for old times'
sake?
RAUL
"Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon" wrote:
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." ( Edmund Burke )
Kip King
I don't disagree with anything you said here but you seem obsessed with
inbreeding. WE ARE ALL INBRED. In the 1500's there were only about 55
million people on earth. This year there will be about 6 billion.
Everyone marries relatives whether they know it or not.
Kip King
Guava Baby
>
> JSP,
> I don't disagree with anything you said here but you seem obsessed with
> inbreeding. WE ARE ALL INBRED. In the 1500's there were only about 55
> million people on earth. This year there will be about 6 billion.
> Everyone marries relatives whether they know it or not.
> Kip King
Sure, but if you're talking about a gene pool of a couple hundred people
(at most) isolated for 400 years that's a rather different matter. I'm
sure this has occurred in remote regions, but I think the point is that
it's very unlikely to have happened in the case of the Tainos.
Leigh
Kip King
If one claim to be pure anything, one is admitting to "extreme"
inbreeding. Even Europeans have some African ancestry. The Greeks and
Romans took slaves from both Europe and Africa. Aesop who wrote Aesop's
fables was a black born in Greece to captured black Africans. Southern
Europeans such as Greeks, southern Italians and people from southern
Spain, have enough African ancestry that they are the only non Africans
that have some people that get sickel-cell anemia. All other Europeans
even in the far north have slight amounts of African ancestry. The only
people that could be thought of as more or less "pure" are some full
blood AmerIndians and some full blood Australian Aborigines.
Kip
gavrillacq
(and anyone else who wishes to hear some Factual and not Fictional
reality about the alleged existence of the "Taino Nation" in Puerto
Rico, Perth Amboy, NJ or Paducah, KY)
(y les voy a escribir en ingles porque como muchos que he conocido en
Columbia University (una de las universidades del "Ivy League", para
los que no lo saben), no estoy seguro que me van a entender si les
escribo en espan~ol).
First of all Carlos, I would strongly suggest that you embrace your OWN
identity, WHATEVER it is and be honest about that. Catalonian
(Spanish) and Navajo (Indigenous American) is certainly exotic
ANYWHERE in the world but that does not have to mean that you are
anymore vulnerable to the prejudices of anyone else on the planet than
anyone else. But I must tell you that to hear you say...
***" Why is it that you puertoricans hate your native blood? Every time
some puertoricans begin to acknowledge their native ancestry, they are
immediately attacked..."
is very disturbing for SEVERAL reasons. And on the assumption that your
presence @ Columbia University is that of student, staff or scholar (and
not that of a part-time, temporary 3rd shift blind, deaf and illiterate
pigeon-chaser), it is shocking to read such a commentary from ANYONE
enjoying the LUXURY of such an exclusive education. But then, I have
been shocked MANY times before in the Ivy League. Take a trip to Ithaca,
NY or Providence, RI for even more absurd Taino fiction.
Firstly, we DO NOT hate our native HISTORY!!! ALL Puerto Ricans (of
ANY integrity) are VERY well aware of our own respective personal and
familial histories. Those of us who are of European ancestry, have
ABSOLUTELY NO reason to be proud of "Taino" roots that are not connected
in ANY WAY to their respective family genealogies, anymore than they
would NEED to be proud of being ESKIMO!!! That doesn't make us racist,
anti-Eskimo or suggest that we are in identity denial. WE are only
addressing what we ARE!!! Are there Puerto Ricans who are in some remote
UMPTEENTH generational sense "Taino"? I doubt ANY of us will ever know
that anymore than any USAmerican born in the Bronx will know for sure,
if s/he is a descendant of Pocahontas.
HOWEVER, what VERY few of us will tolerate for even a NANO-second
however, is the current proliferation of a Taino fiction based on a
quasi-ethnic fantasy that has the historical and anthropological
substance of the cardboard scenery of the Tex-Mex town in the
now-defunct Broadway sham called the "CAPEMAN". Nothing like Paul
Simon(the mini-Prince from Kew Garden,Queens, NY and Derek Walcott
(self-styled savior of all "Caribbean" peoples (that is when he isn't
sipping champagne on the Concorde) to interpret the histories of
others on anything other than the level of fraudulence!!!
The mere fact that some "claim" to be Tainos is an ABSURDITY and NOT a
fact.
George Washington, (the first president of the former 13 colony "USA",
based his concept of a "federation" of "states" on the model of
political affiliations that he witnessed amongst the indigenous
populations on the North American continent. Does this make him an
Apache? Think about it!
Even today, there are STILL MANY agricultural and dietary "USAmerican"
traditions observed in the 50 UStates. Do these observable societal
practices make a Russian Jewish immigrant who arrived YESTERDAY in
Brighton Beach,Brooklyn, a Cherokee??? Think about it!
Where you both make your mistakes in UNDERSTANDING the Taino fraudulence
that its promoters are so intent on representing as "popular" today, is
that you accept their, and that of other revisionist nativist clowns'
contention that ANYONE coming from ANY former Spanish-American colony
(in this case Puerto Rico),i.e. ANYWHERE south of Miami (FL) or Laredo
(TX) is automatically the long lost descendant of Montezuma. Or in this
case, a Cacique from Canarsie, Brooklyn. Please don't make this
mistake. It is REALLY beneath any organism higher than an amoeba on the
intellectual food chain to even consider, let alone not question this
farce.
Is the President of Peru, Alberto Fujimori, who is a Peruvian of
JAPANESE ancestry, a racist or in denial because he (rightfully)
acknowledge his exclusively AUTHENTIC and ANCESTRAL link to Japan and
not the INCAS? Think about it!!! (By the way, in Peru, they call him
"el Chinito", but that doesn't make him believe he is CHINESE!!!
Having been raised in Puerto Rico and with a HUGE extended family, who
lived (and continue to live) in in Quebradillas, Arecibo, Lares,
Hatillo, Utuado and San Patricio (area of metro San Juan), I can tell
you that in ALL of my experience, even as a little boy with my MANY
cousins, uncles, aunts and assorted siblings and EVEN when riding my
Paso Fino pony (yes, we were elite) in the mountains, I NEVER
encountered a Taino, except in a glass-enclosed exhibit in a museum on a
elementary school field trip.
As to whether or not there are Puerto Ricans (knowingly or unknowingly)
that are on some MICROSCOPIC genealogical level "Taino" is REALLY
doubtful (but possible for a VERY small number of people) for the
reasons that others in this NG have ALREADY stated very articulately.
However, if you CHOOSE not to believe the FACTS or the mathematical
permutations that would STRONGLY suggest that someone who is claiming to
be descended (25 GENERATIONS or MORE to be a Taino), then I wish you a
very happy Halloween experience at the next Taino uprising on Delancey
Street. But first stop at one of the costume shops on 14th
street for black wig and a grass skirt. Really now, this is already too
ridiculous to even address AGAIN in the company of thinking beings!!!
Now, you might be wondering...
"Then why are these "Pseudo-Ricans" so vocal in their claims to be
Tainos"?
The answer is really VERY simple.
It is a VERY well known fact that ANYONE who can "prove" indigenous
tribal standing in the contemporary USA, is "entitled" (by law) to VERY
special treatments and status. Some of these EXTRA-special perks
include:
---HUGE tax exemptions from the USAmerican Tax laws
(how do you spell...D-U-T-Y F-R-E-E?)
---Sovereign nation status,providing its members immunity
(from LOTS of civil laws that all other US citizens are NOT exempt from)
---Tax-empt lottery and casino status
(Bingo on a reservation tonight?)
---Tax-Free gasoline, cigarettes and liquor
(Fill 'er up, the gas tank that is...)
---Huge financial aid scholarhips ANYWHERE!!!
(ESPECIALLY in the IVY LEAGUE)
The level of privilege provided to "certified" (often proven to the
Bureau of Indian Affairs)card-carrying members of ANY SOVERIGN
indigenous nation in North America (Canada INCLUDED) is VERY slowly
becoming legendary. HOWEVER, the political comatose USAmerican
mainstream doesn't yet have a clear understanding of what IT is, who IT
is for, or how to get IT. And, as with political whores everywhere,
there are those who quickly get the scent of MONEY in their noses and
VOILA...they're suddenly dressing up for a night on the town (like all
working girls...to work it, work it, work it. Hence the birth of the
INDIGEOUS Tainos (via the Bronx, no less). Oh and you should also know
that there are even Tainos in HAWAII, of all places. No doubt they
floated in on their fluorescent rubber inflatable tanning raft while
sipping Pin~a Coladas (with little umbrellas)and sunbathing at a Kiwanis
convention in a Waikiki beachfront LUXURY resort. I hope you get my
"drift" (no pun intended...by now.
As I said recently on another thread, I have met Pseudo-Ricans (in the
States of course) who have had the audacity to say things like...
"I know I am a Taino Princess, 'cause my mother has black hair"
"I am Mandingo because my father has..."curly hair".
Sadly, Carlos this is what happens when the ALREADY-colonized accept a
YET ANOTHER colonizer and believe all the current diversity-drivel and
multi-culti-mumbo-jumbo that gets served up everyday in the US in the
name of "multi-culturalism". So you see, the Pseudo-Ricans that are
promoting these Taino comedies are only predictable victims of a banquet
of bullshit that they were fed by others who don't even know their own
histories, but would dare to tell us ours.
And one more thing. Don't make the mistake that MANY are making with
regard to CULTURAL legacy and GENEALOGICAL fact...THEY ARE NOT
SYNONOMOUS or congruent concepts. At best they are tangential and even
then, barely.
And with regard to your comment that...
***I am often mistaken for a Puertoricans,especially by may
puertoricans. When I try to explain that I am not,they often turn
hostile and claim that I am trying to be white. Then, when I try to
explain that I am of Navajo and Catalonian mix, they then claim that I
am trying to be white and am ashamed of my black side."
The only words I would have in response to this statement, would be to
remind you that bigots and hypocrites do IN FACT come in ALL COLORS even
when screaming (ironically) their chants of "we all da same", as you
have experienced yourself.
Greg Medina Rivera Chaves Saavedra Borges Zamot Soler y Morell
(copyright @1999, Greg Medina, all rights reserved, this document may
not be reprinted without express written permission of author)
*********************************************
In article <37F0D0BD...@columbia.edu>,
cr...@columbia.edu wrote:
> Why is it that you puertoricans hate your native blood? Every time
some
> puertoricans begin to acknowledge their native ancestry, they are
> immediately attacked by others that claim that puertoricans are only
> blacks. You seem to forget that African slaves were a late entry into
> the island. Most, if not all, books written on Puerto Rico state that
> African Slaves were introduced into the island during the late 1700's.
> Which means that the local native peoples were used as slaves. There
> are books that are a collection of letters from monks of that period
> which dead with native slavery that you should read.
>
> As a person of mixed blood, I am often mistaken for a Puertoricans,
> especially by may puertoricans. When I try to explain that I am not,
> they often turn hostile and claim that I am trying to be white. Then,
> when I try to explain that I am of Navajo and Catalonian mix, they
then
> claim that I am trying to be white and am ashamed of my black side.
> Several times I have been physically assaulted by these people. I can
> not help the way that I look, this comes about by the mixing of my
> parents genes. My father's family are all blonde haired, blue eyed
and
> white skinned. My mother's family are all black haired, dark eyed and
> dark skinned. The fact that I am mistaken for a Puertoricans makes me
> come to the conclusion that your people are more Native than African.
>
> Nizhoni,
>
> Carlos
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
JRDelirious(Jose Diaz)
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon wrote in message ...
>> puertoricans begin to acknowledge their native ancestry, they are
>> immediately attacked by others that claim that puertoricans are only
blacks
Which right off the bat tells us he hasn't paid much attention, since there
have been epic flamewars in the s.c.p-r NG with one side claiming that we
are fundamentally a white-spanish-criollo culture, another arguing we're
fundamentally a mulatto nation, others going for the "país de cuatro pisos"
model of overlapping identities, yet others for the 3-way melting pot, and
another faction slamming all the rest as racists for even bringing it up.
But hardly anyone claiming we're "only blacks".
>
>Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that CULTURAL HERITAGE
>and GENETIC BLOODLINE are two different things??? Puerto Rico's CULTURE is
>composed of elements of ALL of the cultures that have inhabited this
>beautiful land. We have CULTURAL contributions from the Taino culture, the
>African culture and the Spanish/white culture, which all intermingled here
>to become what we call here Puertorican Culture. But GENETIC BLOODLINES are
>another story!
>. For example, you may be a "direct
>descendant" of a Spanish family if your grandfather was from Spain, and at
>the same time a direct descendant of African slaves if your grandmother had
>African ancestors. You can be a "direct descendant" OF BOTH, one does not
>cancel the other out!
>
>But the "New Jersey Tainos" claim to be DIRECT AND EXCLUSIVE DESCENDANTS
>from a Taino tribe which escaped extermination and assimilation and lived
>hidden for centuries in the mountains of Puerto Rico. THAT is their
mistake
>and THAT is the deception which they attempt to perpetrate on the gullible
>public. THEY are the ones who are denying ANY OTHER ANCESTRY other than
>Taino. I am simply stating that it is a historical, physical, logical and
>genetic IMPOSSIBILITY for their story to be true!!!
Actually, when challenged on this, they quickly backpedal as to include the
process of "mestizaje" into the equation. But they present it as a process
by which outsiders *joined* the "tribe", adding some Spanish-Black cultural
and racial traits, and became the "New Generation" Taino, but *still* Taino.
As opposed to what more likely happened, which is that the cultures of
Spaniards, Africans and the small remnant of the Taino, after 3 centuries of
mixing in an island where there were years only 2 ships called in, joined
into something *NEW*, NO LONGER really Spanish or African or Taino, but
distinct and unique: the Puertorrican Culture (or Nation if you prefer). We
even kept the Taino term "Boricua" as a way to describe its uniqueness.
Those "cimarrones", the people who went to the hills away from stifling
authoritarian rule, became -one- of the subsets of the Puertorrican culture:
the jíbaro.
Which is not to say that Puertorriqueñidad is one smooth homogeneous thing.
As JL González aptly describes it, our society is like a single building,
with multiple levels of apartments. Just look at how the Cepedas, the
Ramirez de Arellanos, the Romeros, the Trinidads, Luis Gutierrez in Chicago
and Willie Colón in NY all consider themselves "Puerto Rican"
>
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
1. Shiny, black, "loose" hair
2. Beautiful Light-Bronze skin color
3. A beauty! ;-)
Golem
"JRDelirious(Jose Diaz)" wrote:
> As opposed to what more likely happened, which is that the cultures of
> Spaniards, Africans and the small remnant of the Taino, after 3 centuries of
> mixing in an island where there were years only 2 ships called in, joined
> into something *NEW*, NO LONGER really Spanish or African or Taino, but
> distinct and unique: the Puertorrican Culture (or Nation if you prefer). We
> even kept the Taino term "Boricua" as a way to describe its uniqueness.
> Those "cimarrones", the people who went to the hills away from stifling
> authoritarian rule, became -one- of the subsets of the Puertorrican culture:
> the jíbaro.
"Cimarrones"? I thought that was the name of the escaped black slaves that took
refuge in the mountains of Central Puerto Rico; and also in other places such as
Panama. The original jíbaros, on the other hand, were mostly descendants of
European farmers. Of course, since then there has been a lot of intermarriage.
I really don't understand why people make such a big fuss about "race". There's
only ONE race, the human race. Humans are genetically 99.9% identical to each
other; hell, there's only a 1.6% difference between the genomes of humans and
chimps. There is so much that we all have in common, why the hell do we always
have to emphasize on those few things that divide us?
Obviously I'm not saying all this because of you, José, but because of some of
the posts along this thread; geez, all this "race" stuff is bull, we're ALL
humans (well, there are some doubts about Jaime Rivera Sierra, he may be a
crossbreed between a Chupacabra and an escaped Rhesus monkey, but that's another
matter), we're all here, no one's going to leave, so we may as well make the
best of it.
Saludos
RAUL
Kip King
Right!
Kip
gavrillacq
I saw her too!!!
Last week, when I was walking past "El Mamao Sucio" Restaurant in
Washington,DC, where the 1999 Miss Guatemalan Dwarf Drag Queen
competition was being held. Ooops, but I forget, "we all da same".
You're right though, "she" really was a beauty; an incredible vision in
that black Dynel wig and purple leather jump suit. What shampoo do you
think "she" uses?
For now...Greg...
******************************************
In article <7t0v1c$rkr$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
--
When they told me I wasn't a real "Porto Rican", I
asked, "why do you say that"?
To this they responded..."cause you aint, down,
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
In Puerto Rico 100% of the people speak spanish and/or english.
Taino language has disappeared. Nobody speaks Taino anymore.
Taino cultural heritage is preserved, and is well documented.
JRDelirious(Jose Diaz) wrote in message ...
>
>Kip King wrote in message <37EF4998...@home.com>...
>>JSP,
>>I am aware that most Puerto Ricans have Indian blood but, isn't it
>>possible that some people of Indian decent from Puerto Rico identify as
>>Indian?
>>
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
"ridiculously ugly" !
Attention all Tainos! ;-)
Greg, trust me, she was beautiful and rare.
Attention!
gavrillacq wrote in message <7tin3l$23n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
99.9999999% certainty that there are no Taino tribes in PR
Raymond Falcon-Lugo
Conclusion:
1. There are no Taino tribes in Puerto Rico.
2. There are regions in P.R. where there is "Taino like" people, and all are
common, friendly, spanish speaking people with no special accent.
3. They use the same type of cars, same type of clothing, etc.
Jaime D. Sotomayor-Pabon
news:7tm021$ngq$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
> I disagree having criss-crossed the island many times I assure you with
Did you see the con artist who has been camping in front of the capitol
Building in San Juan dressed in Taino garb? He claims to be "70%
Taino-blooded", but the guy has the most amazing 5 o'clock shadow since Fred
Flintstone!!! For those of you who don't know, Tainos had NO facial and
very little body hair, as do present day "indian" tribes in the Amazon and
elsewhere.
But be that as it may, some JERK in the Legislature already announced that
he is going to file a bill to provide this con artist with FUNDING so that
he can "promote our Taino culture"!!! THAT'S THE NAME OF THE GAME!!!
I bet you that the New Jersey Tainos will SWIM back to Puerto Rico when they
hear that there's GOVERMENT FUNDS to be fleeced here!!!
JSP
Kip King
tribes in Puerto Rico.