Was Atheism In Part Responsible For The Crimes Of Communism?
J
A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The
atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had
mustaches?
The atheist's response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is not really
deserving deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the sake of fairness, we
will endeavor to assess his objection.
Was the philosophy of atheism espoused by communists responsible for the
mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot
and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists
prefer not to acknowledge.
1. Communists leaders were motivated by a strong desire to impose an
ideological "package" over the whole world. The package included the
eradication of Religion, defined by arch-atheist, Karl Marx, as "The opium
of the people." According to Marx, religion helped keep the masses passive
before the abuse of the wealthy and powerful, and the only way to free them
from the "stupor," God and religion had to be eradicated. Lenin embraced
Marx's views and so did Stalin up to the Second World war. The enforcement
of Atheism was a "critical" requirement for Communism's success, and thus it
had to be implemented at all costs. This meant oppressive measures, such as
brainwashing in state schools, the closing of houses of worship and
arresting countless religious leaders.
2. Karl Marx's extremist followers were not in any way impeded in their
blood-thirsty global quest by fear of a Higher Power. Atheism took very
efficient care of this "limiting factor." Since the end justified the means,
as Machiavelli had instructed, they could do whatever was necessary to bring
about a workers' paradise. Because the opposition in some cases proved to be
powerful and resilient, drastic means were used. Large numbers were killed
for refusing to abandon their religious beliefs. A great many were sent to
concentration camps. (For an enlightening, "first-hand" account of
suppression of Religion and other "enemies" of Atheistic-Communism in
Russia, please read, The Gulag Archipelago, by Alexander Solzhenitsyn --
especially Chapter 2.)
3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme,
all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods." They had total control over
people's lives and over who lived and who died. Being "gods," they asserted
their evil schemes over the masses with brutality and mercilessness.
4. People like Stalin were interested in propagating an ideology, not a
look. Nobody was persecuted in the Soviet Union for not having a mustache
like Stalin, or for not wearing a uniform similar to his, or for not liking
the same food, music or sports. Large numbers were persecuted and killed for
practicing religion, and for being interferences to atheist-communist
expansion. Now some would retort that Stalin had a change of heart during
the Second World war and that he recognized and elevated anew the Russian
Orthodox Church. This is a historically correct statement, but in no way
does it indicate that Stalin moved toward theism. The move was strictly
utilitarian. Steven Merritt Miner in his work Stalin's Holy War informs us
that Stalin had ulterior motives behind the move.
"Moscow's religious policy at this time can only be understood in the
context of Soviet security considerations, especially Moscow's concerns
about the disaffection of non-Russian nationalities. The Kremlin saw the
church not only, and perhaps not even primarily, as a tool for mobilizing
and harnessing Russian nationalism throughout the union, but rather as one
of several instruments for countering and disarming non-Russian, and
anti-Soviet, nationalism. As most tsars could have told Stalin, the Russian
Orthodox Church was an effective agent for the Russification of the
ethnically diverse and contentious western regions."
This move, though "seemingly" noble, did not neutralize or excuse his
heinous actions toward countless Christians and Muslims who were killed so
as to facilitate the spread of Stalin's atheistic-communistic ideology.
Militant atheism, therefore, was a major factor in the murder of countless
millions, during the past century. Unfortunately, militant atheism, is still
driven by some of the same extremist views reminiscent of atheist-communist
regimes of old. They, like their predecessors, do not hesitate to admit that
they hate God, religion and that they would like to see both disappear
forever. Furthermore, they are driven by a hatred for the unborn, and a
blind support for common-law living, sexual immorality, euthanasia, etc.
The understandable concern of many is that a propagation of their
philosophy of meaninglessness and their blind allegiance to atheistic
evolution would lead, in the long run, to a return to a cold-hearted and
dangerous devaluing of the weak and the needy in society; though they
"assure" us that that is not part of their agenda. We believe that their
cold-heartiness toward millions of unborn babies, and their total support of
euthanasia indicates otherwise.
Theist author, Dinesh D'Souza, eloquently expresses similar concerns in the
following quote:
The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic
ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest
techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a
secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the Jews, the
landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order
to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their
apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the
truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is
permitted.
--
J Young
Jvis...@live.com
'You can't cheat an honest man' - W.C. Fields
IAAH
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
And THERE is where this article shows its intent. Bullshit
blaming tactics.
![TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUSX3cHCX_yd7ZKPtBFnLqkwdUHbS2dZ8cfDHe6p1wOEbSEXVM=s40-c)
TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus]
What God did on the first Christmas and what he does in forgiving and
changing people today he did and does in utterly free, sovereign
mercy, so that all his people will end the paragraphs of their lives
with the words like verse 17: "To the King of ages, immortal,
invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen."
We are not saved from sin and changed into righteousness for the sake
of pride but for the sake of praise. And when God's work on us is done
and we stand perfected before Christ in the last day, we will not
exult in our worth but will sing with millions of angels: "Worthy is
the Lamb that was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and
honor and glory and blessing." Praise to you, O Lord. Amen
Timothy 1:4a
These are the same oppressive measures used by the Roman emperors
against paganism, and on behalf on Christianity, in the 4th century
AD. The problem with Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot is not that they were
atheists, it is that they (like Christians of the past) wanted to
force their views on others by any means.
http://ethnikoi.org/persecutions.html
Dawkins is absolutely right that he has nothing in common with these
fanatics when it comes to their violence.
> 2. Karl Marx's extremist followers were not in any way impeded in their
> blood-thirsty global quest by fear of a Higher Power.
See again the Roman emperors, or if you prefer the Spanish
Inquisition. Unfortunately extremist believers are never impeded by a
fear of a Higher Power - instead the feel justified by it and will go
to any lengths. Communism was Stalin's and Pol Pot's Higher Power.
> Atheism took very
> efficient care of this "limiting factor." Since the end justified the means,
> as Machiavelli had instructed, they could do whatever was necessary to bring
> about a workers' paradise. Because the opposition in some cases proved to be
> powerful and resilient, drastic means were used. Large numbers were killed
> for refusing to abandon their religious beliefs. A great many were sent to
> concentration camps. (For an enlightening, "first-hand" account of
> suppression of Religion and other "enemies" of Atheistic-Communism in
> Russia, please read, The Gulag Archipelago, by Alexander Solzhenitsyn --
> especially Chapter 2.)
>
> 3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme,
> all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods." They had total control over
> people's lives and over who lived and who died. Being "gods," they asserted
> their evil schemes over the masses with brutality and mercilessness.
See the history of European rulers who justified their kingdoms
through Christianity, for more of the same.
> 4. People like Stalin were interested in propagating an ideology, not a
> look. Nobody was persecuted in the Soviet Union for not having a mustache
> like Stalin, or for not wearing a uniform similar to his, or for not liking
> the same food, music or sports. Large numbers were persecuted and killed for
> practicing religion, and for being interferences to atheist-communist
> expansion. Now some would retort that Stalin had a change of heart during
> the Second World war and that he recognized and elevated anew the Russian
> Orthodox Church. This is a historically correct statement, but in no way
> does it indicate that Stalin moved toward theism. The move was strictly
> utilitarian. Steven Merritt Miner in his work Stalin's Holy War informs us
> that Stalin had ulterior motives behind the move.
Yes, that sounds true to me. Note that the ideology was communism (and
Russian expansionism) not just atheism. He would have no reason to
force people to adopt atheism if he didn't have an ideological agenda.
> "Moscow's religious policy at this time can only be understood in the
> context of Soviet security considerations, especially Moscow's concerns
> about the disaffection of non-Russian nationalities. The Kremlin saw the
> church not only, and perhaps not even primarily, as a tool for mobilizing
> and harnessing Russian nationalism throughout the union, but rather as one
> of several instruments for countering and disarming non-Russian, and
> anti-Soviet, nationalism. As most tsars could have told Stalin, the Russian
> Orthodox Church was an effective agent for the Russification of the
> ethnically diverse and contentious western regions."
>
> This move, though "seemingly" noble, did not neutralize or excuse his
> heinous actions toward countless Christians and Muslims who were killed so
> as to facilitate the spread of Stalin's atheistic-communistic ideology.
It doesn't seem noble to me.
> Militant atheism, therefore, was a major factor in the murder of countless
> millions, during the past century. Unfortunately, militant atheism, is still
> driven by some of the same extremist views reminiscent of atheist-communist
> regimes of old.
Nonsense. Militant communism kills people, militant Islam kills
people, militant Christianity kills people. Militant atheism makes
angry faces and waves posters.
> They, like their predecessors, do not hesitate to admit that
> they hate God, religion and that they would like to see both disappear
> forever.
True, except we can't hate things that we don't believe exist.
> Furthermore, they are driven by a hatred for the unborn,
What? You are undermining yourself with nonsense like this.
> and a
> blind support for common-law living, sexual immorality, euthanasia, etc.
Most atheists aren't in the habit of giving blind support to anything.
We've had practice in rejecting blind support.
> The understandable concern of many is that a propagation of their
> philosophy of meaninglessness and their blind allegiance to atheistic
> evolution would lead, in the long run, to a return to a cold-hearted and
> dangerous devaluing of the weak and the needy in society; though they
> "assure" us that that is not part of their agenda.
Many of us don't just "assure" you, we put our support of the weak and
needy into action. However this will depend on the individual atheist.
Atheism just means we don't see any convincing evidence for gods, so
not surprisingly, you get atheists in the political left, right and
centre. Just like you get Christians in all three places.
> We believe that their
> cold-heartiness toward millions of unborn babies, and their total support of
> euthanasia indicates otherwise.
>
> Theist author, Dinesh D'Souza, eloquently expresses similar concerns in the
> following quote:
>
> The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic
> ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values.
The heroic successes of atheism, which Christians and atheists all
enjoy, have also been perpetrated through that ideology. It's just a
loaded way of saying that we don't believe in god-given values such as
not eating pork.
> Using the latest
> techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a
> secular utopia here on earth.
True. Please wish us luck, since you would benefit.
> Of course if some people - the Jews, the
> landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order
> to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their
> apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay.
I am not willing to pay that price, because I am not trying to force
an ideology on others. However Christians, fascists and communists
have all shown themselves willing [hopefully present company
excepted].
> Thus they confirm the
> truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is
> permitted.
If God is not, it is up to all of us to forbid that which should not
be permitted. Such as murder; but not such as common-law marriage.
> --
> J Young
> Jvisi...@live.com
zencycle
>
> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> on a national station.
If you don't know who it was, how do we know you're not making it up?
> During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
One would only justify such actions if that person felt they were
morally supportable. Dawkins does not support stalinism, and would
never have attempted to 'justify' stalins genocide.
>The
> atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
> great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
> the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had
> mustaches?
This is true. there is no linkage between atheism and communist
genocide.
> Was the philosophy of atheism espoused by communists responsible for the
> mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot
> and Ceausescu?
It's been answered.
> Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists
> prefer not to acknowledge.
>
> 3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme,
> all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods."
you just destroyed your own argument. They were behaving in a manner
_completely_ consistent with religion. they became the 'infallible
leaders' of their people. they became 'gods', and demanded 'worship'.
Gee that sounds familiar.....
VoiceOfReason
committed by Christians over the past 2,000 years.
duke
>WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
Atheism and communism fit together like peanut butter and jam.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Uncle Vic
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
I am an atheist. I have never seen the inside of a jail cell. Does that
answer your question, pussy?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Separator of Church and Reason.
Convicted by Earthquack.
My modern calendar ends on 12/31/09. There are no days after that, so it's
obviously the date of the end of the world!
Syd
>
<Sigh> No, Junkie Young, it was not.
No matter how much you and your kind lie.
PDW
Syd
Prove this actually happened.
PDW
Syd
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:57:11 -0400, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> >WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> Atheism and communism fit together like peanut butter and jam.
>
>
And Dork shows his honesty and decency yet again.
PDW, sarcastic.
polymer
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:57:11 -0400, "J" <Jvis...@live.com> wrote:
>
>>WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> Atheism and communism fit together like peanut butter and jam.
Best be careful with that kind of comparison, Dukester.
You know very well what your favorite Church is notorious
for right now?
fasgnadh
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
No, ...it was FULLY COMPLICIT!
Ask the atheist responsible;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
James Dale Guckert
This "major atheist" whose name is not known was supposedly
interviewed on some unknown station at some unknown point in time, and
was asked to discuss something that someone else did.
I wish such standards were acceptable back when I was writing papers
for college and grad school.
fasgnadh
> On Sep 22, 10:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>> justify the evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
and an atheist thug willingly obliges, trying to justify the atheist
holocaust which killed over 30,000,000 people;
> there is no linkage between atheism and communist genocide.
Liar;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
EVERY ATHEIST STATE WAS A MURDEROUS TOTALITARIAN TYRANNY;
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus]
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:57:11 -0400, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> >WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> Atheism and communism fit together like peanut butter and jam.
>
> The Dukester, American-American
> *****
> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> Pope Paul VI
> *****
I am a C C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N
And I have C-H-R-I-S-T
In my H-E-A-R-T
And I will L-I-V-E E-T-E-R-N-A-L-L-Y!
fasgnadh
> Atheism can't even begin to compare with the endless butchery
> committed by Christians over the past 2,000 years.
Even atheists admit that the atheist states, the Union of Savage
Slaughter and Repression(USSR), Mao's Great Leap Backward and the
Cultural Devolution, and Pol Pots Cambodian genocide were the
most horrific holocausts in history;
# From: Kilmir <kil...@gmail.com>
# Newsgroups:
alt.agnosticism,alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian,alt.usenet.kooks
# Subject: Re: is religion really the answer? Not if the question is
# "What killed 60,000,000 in the last 100 years" - ATHEIST REGIMES DID
IT! 8^o
# Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
# Organization: http://groups.google.com
# Message-ID:
<042262dc-a546-4054...@b9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
# Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
#
#
# http://teapotatheism.blogspot.com/search?q=3Datheist+vs+theist+killings
#
# atheists have caused almost a whopping 100 million deaths throughout
# world history.
Peer reviewed historians put more conservative figures,
by the toll is still over 60,000,000 people, far greater
than any religion has been responsible for;
First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;
# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000 [make link]
* Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.
# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]
* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M
######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################
# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):
40 000 000
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,
1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)
Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes who made their lives such misery and
despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled from their own evil and
incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck off the filthy atheist
shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path more tolerant of
religion.. since then their nations have prospered.. still suffering
the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of Civilisation and
making progress!!
Now, all you have to do is show similar EVIDENCE.. not your IDIOTIC
OPINIONS, or those of some other atheist cretin.. that countries like
the USA, which Prints "In God We Trust" on it's money, is in any way
such a murderous tyranny, torturing terrorising and murdering over
30,000,000 of it's citizens!
Off you go you snivelling atheist fraud!
--
fasgnadh
> One fine day in alt.atheism, "J" <Jvis...@live.com> wrote:
>
>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> I am an atheist. I have never seen the inside of a jail cell. Does that
> answer your question, pussy?
No, you slimy atheist fuckwit, Osama Bin Lidden is still at large too!
B^p
fasgnadh
> On Sep 22, 10:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
> <Sigh>
Don't pretend you care, you are just another atheist holocaust denier!
> your kind
Sure I am, and you are a lying atheist shitpig.
--
Jimbo
Particularly since Stalin was not Atheist. Another lie told by
another religionist. No suprise there.
Jimbo
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:57:11 -0400, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> >WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> Atheism and communism fit together like peanut butter and jam.
>
Duke and lying fit together like bacon and eggs.
fasgnadh
> On Sep 22, 8:16 am, IAAH <n...@email.exist> wrote:
>> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>
>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>>
>>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
>>> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
>>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>> And THERE is where this article shows its intent. Bullshit
>> blaming tactics.
>
> This "major atheist" whose name is not known was supposedly
> interviewed on some unknown station at some unknown point in time, and
> was asked to discuss something that someone else did.
You are right, Primary sources are best:
Here is the athiest responsible confessing that atheism
was guilty;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
It wasn't just the Soviet union.... EVERY atheist state was a
totalitarian shithole- Maoist China, Pol Pots Cambodian genocide,..
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
�We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.�
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
�Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!� (early Soviet slogan)
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
60,000,000 were killed in the atheist holocausts of the 20th century.
> I wish such standards were acceptable back when I was writing papers
> for college and grad school.
Why, you felt the need to turn your lecturers into ice-pillars just
because they upheld freedom of thought and belief?
--
fasgnadh
>> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>
>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
>>> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
>>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" - Stalin
- E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
> Another lie told by another
atheist
and then there is Lenin, who started the atheist holocausts;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Every atheist state was a murderous, totalitarian shithole!
> No suprise there.
--
fla...@verizon.net
He's just upset because he knows his ilk can be blamed for the Holocaust.
Ssuan
fasgnadh
>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>>
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
>> <Sigh>
Don't pretend you care, you are just another atheist holocaust denier!
>> your kind
Sure I am, and you are a lying atheist shitpig.
> He's just upset because he knows his ilk can be blamed for the Holocaust.
>
> Ssuan
Syd has a sick elk? Was it molested by Chris Lee? 8^o
Call the RSPCA!
--
Alex
>
> 'You can't cheat an honest man' - W.C. Fields
ideology of communism by Marx is based on atheism!
so it responsible 100% for the crimes by communists!
Syd
> J wrote:
> > WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> No, ...it was FULLY COMPLICIT!
>
And another lier is heard from.
PDW
Uncle Vic
>
> >> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> > I am an atheist. I have never seen the inside of a jail cell. Does that
> > answer your question, pussy?
>
> No
Of course it doesn't, it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
--
Uncle Vic
AA#2011
Don H
news:UM7um.42281$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
# The Age of Dogmatism is, hopefully, past - only that of Islamic dogma
still prevails.
North Korea is a hard-line Commie state, but its counterparts elsewhere -
China, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos, are more moderate. The people even seem happy!
The days of the Clerical Fascists too have declined, and Operation
Barbarossa, in which the Nazi hordes invaded Russia, with 20 million
Russians dead (not to mention six million Jews), have left the Swastika
(hakenkreuz: hooked cross) as little more than a footnote to history.
The USA bombed Vietnam back to the Stone Age; it was also the only nation
to use an atom bomb, on (Japanese) civilians, twice. ("In God We Trust")
But fang-gnasher desperately clings to his Deity, as without God, all is
lost - as the dreaded Atheist will take over, once again.
Yes, we need Big Daddy to tell us what to do, as the Infant Ape can't be
relied upon to act socially responsibly without Him.
So, if God is Dead, please resurrect Him, or the Terror will again
descend on us all.
W.T.S.
news:357e5b....@news.alt.net...
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
too.
Bible, bad. Atheism and abortion, good.
James Dale Guckert
> ideology of communism by Marx is based on atheism!
Atheism is not an economic theory.
> so it responsible 100% for the crimes by communists!
If you could draw a line between simply not believing in any gods and
following orders from a despotic leader to kill millions of people,
then you might be correct by some small fraction of 100%.
But given that the acts in question were more than anything else about
power, that's a tough line to draw.
Have fun trying.
Mr. B
Short answer: no.
> 1. Communists leaders were motivated by a strong desire to impose an
> ideological "package" over the whole world.
Sounds like a familiar strategy employed by Catholics.
> The enforcement
> of Atheism was a "critical" requirement for Communism's success, and thus
> it had to be implemented at all costs.
Never mind that Cubans continue to practice their religion, and that the
Cuban government has only applied minor restrictions on what churches may do
in their country. In fact, the Cuban government once invited the Pope to
visit the nation.
> 2. Karl Marx's extremist followers were not in any way impeded in their
> blood-thirsty global quest by fear of a Higher Power.
Yes, and the crusaders, Arabs/Ottomans, etc. have not been impeded by their
religious beliefs either.
> 3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme,
> all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods."
Except leaders like Che Guevara. That's OK, the author of this article (I
doubt it was you, J) has pretty much failed to state anything truthful, so
why should this come as a surprise.
> 4. People like Stalin were interested in propagating an ideology, not a
> look.
Rather like Christians and Muslims.
> Nobody was persecuted in the Soviet Union for not having a mustache
> like Stalin, or for not wearing a uniform similar to his, or for not
> liking the same food, music or sports. Large numbers were persecuted and
> killed for practicing religion,
Nobody was persecuted by the Catholic church for not wearing white robes
like the Pope. Millions were killed over the centuries for failing to
follow the prescribed religious doctrine, and killed in some of the most
brutal fashions ever conceived of.
> Theist author, Dinesh D'Souza, eloquently expresses similar concerns in
> the following quote:
I am concerned about quoting D'Souza, considering that he is a known liar
who, like most far-right commentators, deliberately misrepresents the facts
surrounding everything he writes about.
> Using the
> latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and
> create a secular utopia here on earth.
Maybe D'Souza should stop using his car, computer, etc., and revert to
hunting and gathering as a way of life. He'll be content to not use
technology anymore, and we'll be content to not hear his views.
-- B
szmalcownik
> Atheism can't even begin to compare with the endless butchery
> committed by Christians over the past 2,000 years.
>
And if we are to believe in G-d, as described by religious freaks,
then according to "holy scriptures" H-e must be the most proficient in
genocide, starting with deluge, creating earth with eruptions, plague,
tornadoes earthquakes etc, Stalin, Hitler, Pol-Pot etc., are smal fry
in comparison.
As for Communism, it is also known as one of the five major world
religions, with it's "workers paradise on earth" purgatory (Gulags)
hell (as described by Solzhenitsyn), praise (gloryfying "dear leader",
"If I were present at the creation of the world
I would have suggested some improvements"
Alfonso the Wise (King of Spain)
zencycle
> > answer your question, pussy?
>
> No, you slimy atheist fuckwit, Osama Bin Lidden is still at large too!
And bin laden is a devout muslim, not an atheist, shithead
Davej
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The
> atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
> great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
> the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had
> mustaches?
On Sep 22, 8:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The
> atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
> great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
> the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he
> had mustaches?
> [...]
Atheism is the lack of a belief. The fact is that most atheists are
actually "Golden rulers." They have a basic moral code but don't
believe it is necessary to define themselves by it. To prevent this
sort of constant mischaracterization perhaps they should, perhaps coin
a new term? Perhaps I'm a "gr-er?"
Syd
> Syd slander pretends he cares:
>
> > On Sep 22, 10:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> >> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
>
> > <Sigh>
>
> Don't pretend you care, you are just another atheist holocaust denier!
>
I sure as hell don't care about you, asshole.
> > your kind
>
> Sure I am,
Yes, asshole, we know that you are a hysterical liar with a vendetta
against atheists.
You don't need to keep reminding us.
PDW
Syd
And every other bad thing. The church has several centuries of blood
on it's hands.
Atheism and communism? A paltry one.
So, which is the bigger criminal?
PDW
Syd
> flav...@verizon.net wrote:
> > Syd slander pretends he cares:
> >> On Sep 22, 10:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> >>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
>
> >> <Sigh>
>
> Don't pretend you care, you are just another atheist holocaust denier!
>
> >> your kind
>
> Sure I am, and you are a lying atheist shitpig.
>
> > He's just upset because he knows his ilk can be blamed for the Holocaust.
>
> > Ssuan
>
> Syd has a sick elk?
No, asshole. You are a lying asshole.
PDW
Timothy 1:4a
> > WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
>
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Breathing and motherhood are also inseparable parts of Communism.
There is plenty wrong with Communism, but there is nothing wrong with
breathing, motherhood or atheism.
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
>
>
>
>
>
> > A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> > on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> > evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The
> > atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
> > great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
> > the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had
> > mustaches?
>
> > The atheist's response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is not really
> > deserving deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the sake of fairness, we
> > will endeavor to assess his objection.
>
> > Was the philosophy of atheism espoused by communists responsible for the
> > mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot
> > and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists
> > prefer not to acknowledge.
>
> > 1. Communists leaders were motivated by a strong desire to impose an
> > ideological "package" over the whole world. The package included the
> > eradication of Religion, defined by arch-atheist, Karl Marx, as "The opium
> > of the people." According to Marx, religion helped keep the masses passive
> > before the abuse of the wealthy and powerful, and the only way to free them
> > from the "stupor," God and religion had to be eradicated. Lenin embraced
> > Marx's views and so did Stalin up to the Second World war. The enforcement
> > of Atheism was a "critical" requirement for Communism's success, and thus it
> > had to be implemented at all costs. This meant oppressive measures, such as
> > brainwashing in state schools, the closing of houses of worship and
> > arresting countless religious leaders.
>
> > 2. Karl Marx's extremist followers were not in any way impeded in their
> > blood-thirsty global quest by fear of a Higher Power. Atheism took very
> > efficient care of this "limiting factor." Since the end justified the means,
> > as Machiavelli had instructed, they could do whatever was necessary to bring
> > about a workers' paradise. Because the opposition in some cases proved to be
> > powerful and resilient, drastic means were used. Large numbers were killed
> > for refusing to abandon their religious beliefs. A great many were sent to
> > concentration camps. (For an enlightening, "first-hand" account of
> > suppression of Religion and other "enemies" of Atheistic-Communism in
> > Russia, please read, The Gulag Archipelago, by Alexander Solzhenitsyn --
> > especially Chapter 2.)
>
> > 3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme,
> > all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods." They had total control over
> > people's lives and over who lived and who died. Being "gods," they asserted
> > their evil schemes over the masses with brutality and mercilessness.
>
> > 4. People like Stalin were interested in propagating an ideology, not a
> > look. Nobody was persecuted in the Soviet Union for not having a mustache
> > like Stalin, or for not wearing a uniform similar to his, or for not liking
> > the same food, music or sports. Large numbers were persecuted and killed for
> > Theist author, Dinesh D'Souza, eloquently expresses similar concerns in the
> > following quote:
>
> > The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic
> > ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest
> > techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a
Timothy 1:4a
Mm, he grew up Christian Orthodox and did his college at a seminary
for Ortho priests, but I'm pretty comfortable that he was an atheist.
Similarly, Pol Pot was raised Catholic in a Catholic school system but
ended up an atheist.
If you want to argue that their strict religious education was the
genesis of their willingness to force others to their POV, I for one
would not argue against you.
Jimbo
> Jimbo wrote:
> >> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>
> >>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
> >>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> >>> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> >>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>
> > Stalin was not Atheist.
>
> "You know, they are fooling us, there
"Upon my father's most recent birthday, I asked him why he had book
upon book in his library about Jesus, and Christianity. I had been
agnostic for many years, and mostly ambivalent to religion itself, so
I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He said that he did, that Jesus
did exist. He told me of his journey to find the real Jesus and he
was absolutely convinced that Jesus was the son of God. I must say
that I was greatly surprised."
Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva, youngest daughter of Joseph Stalin and
and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
Stalin was not Atheist.
Jimbo
>
> - Show quoted text -
Communists, and tyranny.
Trance Gemini
> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
ONLY TO A THEIST.
>
> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The
> atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
> great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
> the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had
> mustaches?
Stalin was a Communist leader.
He was educated in a Catholic Seminary.
Communism is a political system.
Both atheists and theists can be communists or not be communists.
>
> The atheist's response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is not really
> deserving deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the sake of fairness, we
> will endeavor to assess his objection.
>
> Was the philosophy of atheism
There is no such thing as a "philosophy of atheism".
Have your heard of Christian Communism or Liberation Theology?
>espoused by communists responsible for the
> mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot
> and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists
> prefer not to acknowledge.
There is no such thing as a "militant atheist".
<snipped red herring based on fallacies>
Trance Gemini
> On Sep 22, 10:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> ONLY TO A THEIST.
>
>
>
> > A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> > on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> > evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The
> > atheist's response was that the connection between Stalin's atheism and his
> > great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use
> > the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had
> > mustaches?
>
> Stalin was a Communist leader.
>
> He was educated in a Catholic Seminary.
>
> Communism is a political system.
>
> Both atheists and theists can be communists or not be communists.
>
>
>
> > The atheist's response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is not really
> > deserving deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the sake of fairness, we
> > will endeavor to assess his objection.
>
> > Was the philosophy of atheism
Note. In order for Communism to be an atheist philosophy.
ALL Communist philosophies would have to be based on the atheist lack
of belief in gods.
They are not: Christian Communism and Liberation Theology exist.
In order for Communism to be an atheist system.
ALL Communists would have to be atheist.
They are not. All Communists are not atheist, they can also be theist.
In addition, Not All atheists are Communists.
Atheists have many different belief systems in addition to a lack of
belief in gods.
There is no such thing as "militant" atheists because one can't be
militant about a lack of belief in something.
Christians are militant because they are militant about their beliefs.
Particularly those who like to shoot people or blow up things when
others disagree with them.
Christopher A. Lee
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>espoused by communists responsible for the
>> mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot
>> and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists
>> prefer not to acknowledge.
>
>There is no such thing as a "militant atheist".
epsoused by people with moustaches responsible for the murders
perpetrated by leaders with moustaches such as Hitler, Stalin and
Hussein? Let's look at some enlightening facts militant people with
moustaches prefer not to acknowledge.
If they were lied about the way we are day in, day out, they might be
militant.
Alex
>
> - Show quoted text -
right, commies=tyranny, wherever they hold the power.
only in israil commies do well in kibuts.
Trance Gemini
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:51:04 -0700 (PDT), Trance Gemini
>
And there are atheists who are getting militant about people lying
about what we are and what we believe.
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> J wrote:
>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>
>>
>> No, ...it was FULLY COMPLICIT!
>>
>>
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
Well, Lenin WAS an ATHEIST! B^D
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
He even warned the world he would lie:
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
>> - Lenin
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>>
>>
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long
>>> ago on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to
>>> justify the evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist
>>> leader, Stalin. The atheist's response was that the connection between
>>> Stalin's atheism and his great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said,
>>> had mustaches; could you not use the same logic, he added, and
>>> conclude that he killed people because he had mustaches?
>>>
>>> The atheist's response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is not
>>> really deserving deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the sake of
>>> fairness, we will endeavor to assess his objection.
>>>
>>> Was the philosophy of atheism espoused by communists responsible for
>>> the mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao,
>>> Pol Pot and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that
>>> militant atheists prefer not to acknowledge.
>>>
--
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
> On Sep 22, 1:11 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> J wrote:
>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>> No, ...it was FULLY COMPLICIT!
>>
>> Ask the atheist responsible;
>>
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> Breathing and motherhood are also inseparable parts of Communism.
Under Mao's atheist regime the Great Leap backward and Cultural
Devolution killed over 30,000,000 people, churches and temples were
destroyed and Religion proscribed.
In 1982 "religion was no longer proscribed, ..the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom of religion."
China was no longer an atheist regime, it began to prosper and
make progress. It is still a Communist government.
> There is plenty wrong with Communism,
Not as much as with atheism, clearly. B^]
> but there is nothing wrong with
> breathing
Of course not, nor with motherhood, and even political
Communism IF it repudiates atheist repression and permits
religion, does not result in the mass murder of the atheist
period, and actually progresses! B^]
Lets examine this shift from Atheism to religious freedom,
progress and prosperity, more closely;
# "With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
# Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
# longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
# amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
# of religion."
#
# http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
China is no longer an atheist state, just as it is no longer
a Command Economy..
# "At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
# Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
# the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
#
# "For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
# to a large extent,"
#
# http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
As the atheist horror-show of the Maoist Great Leap Backwards
and Cultural Devolution killed over 30,000,000 people, and atheism
was abandoned as state imposed doctrine, religion has flourished
and with it, China has prospered! B^]
A win/win for everyone, except the brainless ATHEIST LOSERS of course!
#
# "religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
# past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
#
# http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
So, the terror torture and mass murder of 30,000,000 people
coincided with ATHEISM, and even though the state is officially
still Communist, it is no longer ATHEIST, and thus is now far
more stable, prosperous and religious! Atheism correlates with
tyranny and death more than Communism does! 8^o
Looks like you can have Communism without atheism and still have
a highly effective society.. BUT EVERY ATHEIST REGIME IS A
TOTALITARIAN SHITHOLE TYRANNY!!!!!
Priceless!
B^D
#
#
# "Religious believers thrice the estimate
# By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
#
# "A survey has found that the number of religious believers
# is three times bigger than the official estimate.
#
# The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
# Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
# University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
# of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
#
# http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA!
--
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Jimbo
> On Sep 22, 1:33 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 22, 11:16 am, IAAH <n...@email.exist> wrote:
>
> > > * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>
> > > > WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>
> > > > A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> > > > on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
> > > > evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>
> > > And THERE is where this article shows its intent. Bullshit
> > > blaming tactics.
>
> > Particularly since Stalin was not Atheist. Another lie told by
> > another religionist. No suprise there.
>
> Mm, he grew up Christian Orthodox and did his college at a seminary
> for Ortho priests, but I'm pretty comfortable that he was an atheist.
Well, we're all glad you're comfortable. However, history says
otherwise.
Smiler
> On Sep 22, 1:44 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:57:11 -0400, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>
>>
>> The Dukester, American-American
>> *****
>> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
>> Pope Paul VI
>> *****
>
> I am a C C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N
> And I have C-H-R-I-S-T
> In my H-E-A-R-T
> And I will L-I-V-E E-T-E-R-N-A-L-L-Y!
Your evidence for this eternal life is?
Your beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
--
Smiler
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
All gods are bespoke. They're all made to
perfectly fit the prejudices of their believer
Patrick
> Your evidence for this eternal life is?
> Your beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
Go peddle yer shit elsewhere.
Smiler
> On Sep 22, 10:57 am, "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>
>
> ideology of communism by Marx is based on atheism!
> so it responsible 100% for the crimes by communists!
By the same argument, the ideology of christianity is based on the Christ
figure.
He's responsible 100% for all the crimes by Christians!
(Expecting the sound of bagpipes in any reply.)
The Chief Instigator
> On Sep 22, 1:39?pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> Jimbo wrote:
>> >> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>
>> >>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>> >>> on a national station. During the interview, he was ?asked to justify the
>> >>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>>
>>
>> "You know, they are fooling us, there
>
> "Upon my father's most recent birthday, I asked him why he had book
> upon book in his library about Jesus, and Christianity. I had been
> agnostic for many years, and mostly ambivalent to religion itself, so
> I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He said that he did, that Jesus
> did exist. He told me of his journey to find the real Jesus and he
> was absolutely convinced that Jesus was the son of God. I must say
> that I was greatly surprised."
>
> Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva, youngest daughter of Joseph Stalin and
> and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
>
> Stalin was not Atheist.
Dzhugashvili's religion was: Dzhugashvili. (That's the name Stalin was
born into, "Stalin" meaning "man of steel".)
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Manitoba 3, Houston 1 (May 25: Moose advance, 4-2)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 2 at Manitoba, 7:35
Timothy 1:4a
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 22, 1:39?pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >> Jimbo wrote:
> >> >> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>
> >> >>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
> >> >>> ?A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
> >> >>> on a national station. During the interview, he was ?asked to justify the
> >> >>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>
> >> > Stalin was not Atheist. ?
>
> >> "You know, they are fooling us, there
>
> > "Upon my father's most recent birthday, I asked him why he had book
> > upon book in his library about Jesus, and Christianity. I had been
> > agnostic for many years, and mostly ambivalent to religion itself, so
> > I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He said that he did, that Jesus
> > did exist. He told me of his journey to find the real Jesus and he
> > was absolutely convinced that Jesus was the son of God. I must say
> > that I was greatly surprised."
>
> > Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva, youngest daughter of Joseph Stalin and
> > and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
>
> > Stalin was not Atheist.
>
> Dzhugashvili's religion was: Dzhugashvili. (That's the name Stalin was
> born into, "Stalin" meaning "man of steel".)
I guess he learned something at that seminary.
Simon Peter = Rocky the Rock.
Josef Stalin = Joe Steel.
> --
> Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patr...@io.com) Houston, Texas
> www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php(TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
Syd
<Snort> You first, godboy.
PDW
Jimbo
This is an interesting point because at no time in history has any
military donned atheist symbols, painted those symbols on their
shields, and rode into a continental killing spree in the name of no
God or Gods. I think that the definition of "Atheistic Militancy" for
most religionists is when people actually put up a fight when the
religionist is turning the thumbscrews.
Jimbo
>
> >>espoused by communists responsible for the
> >> mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot
> >> and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists
> >> prefer not to acknowledge.
>
> >There is no such thing as a "militant atheist".
>
> epsoused by people with moustaches responsible for the murders
> perpetrated by leaders with moustaches such as Hitler, Stalin and
> Hussein?
None of which were Atheists.
Trance Gemini
I'm referring more to the semantics.
There are atheists who are militant about various things.
However, a lack of belief isn't militant nor is a person who is
described as a person who lacks a belief.
People are militant about beliefs.
So an individual atheist could be militant about anti-theism and their
belief that religion is damaging to the future of humanity.
Or they could be militant about civil rights.
This would make them militant anti-theists or militant civil rights
activists.
But how can one be a militant lack of belief in godist?
Christopher A. Lee
Theists who talk about militant atheists don't understand the natural
human reaction to what they do. Eg cientists only started getting
militant after creationism gained in-roads in schools. Which destroys
the future of science education in a country which is no longer
attractive to immigrant scientists for a variety of reasons, and
produces a generation of leaders whose ignorance affects the whole
world.
>But how can one be a militant lack of belief in godist?
In exactly the same way one can be militant that there are no fairies
at the bottom of the garden.
Timothy 1:4a
Of course, if someone fences you out of your yard to prevent you from
disturbing the fairies, or sentences you to death for dissing the
fairies...
Trance Gemini
Right. But the afairyist is not being militant about afairyism (lack
of belief in fairies), they're being militant about there being no
fairies at the bottom of the garden which is a belief.
Trance Gemini
Exactly. And militant anti-theists exist because religion is trying to
impose itself on the state and impose terrorism and extremism into our
lives.
Smiler
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:51:04 -0700 (PDT), Trance Gemini
> <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> espoused by communists responsible for the
>>> mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao,
>>> Pol Pot and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that
>>> militant atheists prefer not to acknowledge.
>>
>> There is no such thing as a "militant atheist".
>
> epsoused by people with moustaches responsible for the murders
> perpetrated by leaders with moustaches such as Hitler, Stalin and
> Hussein? Let's look at some enlightening facts militant people with
> moustaches prefer not to acknowledge.
>
Hey! I resemble that remark! I've a moustache and I can be quite militant.
:-)
> If they were lied about the way we are day in, day out, they might be
> militant.
--
Smiler
You've got no evidence?
That makes your religion 'shit', moron.
Jimbo
True.
epicurious
I'm militant about priests who abuse children
does that make me a militant atheist?
Care Factor 0
Alex
>
> - Pokaż cytowany tekst -
no, your feeling is Christian!
do not mix priests and faith, not all are what supposed to be.
those bad "priests" are not faithful and wolves in sheep cloth.
Jimbo
>
> no, your feeling is Christian!
> do not mix priests and faith, not all are what supposed to be.
>
> - Show quoted text -
What about the vast amount of support and enabling that was given to
thise pedophile priests by the church and church hierarchy?
Trance Gemini
No. It makes you the same as me. Pissed off ;-)
>
> Care Factor 0
Trance Gemini
Exactly, like hiding them in the Chancery and the now famous
Instruction that anyone who didn't maintain secrecy would be ex-
communicated.
The Vatican should be charged with Racketeering, Harboring Criminals,
Obstruction of Justice and numerous other crimes.
Alex
>
> - Show quoted text -
John Paul II admitted than Catholics spit the original One Christian
Church in Constantinople.
So we can say that CC is a heresy. Now you figure out why so many
priests are evildoers.
Russian Orthodox Church is true Church as a descendant of Byzantine
Church.
But many of their priests are kosher too.
Separate flies from cutlets! If some priests violate the faith rules
it does not diminish the faith itself.
There are good road signs but some people trying to disregard them and
take an advantage of a situation.
Jimbo
>
> - Show quoted text -
Agreed. I would really like to see Cardinal Benard Law, among
others, brought to justice.
Trance Gemini
Which one was he?
Jimbo
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Cardinal that admitted to protecting fr, John Geoghan and numerous
other accused priests in the preliiminary and discovery hearing long
after he had full knowledge of their activities. Cardinal Law was
whisked out of the country to serve at the Vatican two days prior to
the Massachusetts Grand Jury issing an indictment for his arrest.
After the Detroit pedophile priest scandal broke, Bishop Laurence
Spence was similarly "transferred" to the Vatican for the same reasons
just a week before the Wayne Co. prosecutor gained a warrant for his
arrest. When these scandals broke, it wasn't just the priests that
were being arrested, numerous of the other rats scurried away, with
the help of their own superiors, to avoild prosecution.
Trance Gemini
Ah. Right. The Boston cases.
> Cardinal Law was
> whisked out of the country to serve at the Vatican two days prior to
> the Massachusetts Grand Jury issing an indictment for his arrest.
> After the Detroit pedophile priest scandal broke, Bishop Laurence
> Spence was similarly "transferred" to the Vatican for the same reasons
> just a week before the Wayne Co. prosecutor gained a warrant for his
> arrest. When these scandals broke, it wasn't just the priests that
> were being arrested, numerous of the other rats scurried away, with
> the help of their own superiors, to avoild prosecution.
They really should involve InterPol.
I don't know how they handle International Crime like this but
whatever they do normally with International Crime should be done
here.
There's just this mindset that since it's the Church they won't do it.
Ridiculous really.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BAAWA Knight Applicant
EAC Disciplinary Committee
Leather Teddy/CatONineTails Specialist
EAC Knightette
Agent 000777136669854321. Mange Inciter. Special Services.
EAC Department of Linquistic Subversion.
Evil Anagrams Division.
------------------------------------------------------------------
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> Jimbo wrote:
>>>> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>>>
>>>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>>>> long ago
>>>>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>>>
>>> Stalin was not Atheist.
>>
>> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" - Stalin
>> - E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
>> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
>>
>> > Another lie told by another
>> atheist
>>
>> and then there is Lenin, who started the atheist holocausts;
>>
>>
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
>> - Lenin
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>>
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Atheists are so incapable of serious, rational argument
they think all the evidence of history can be ignored if a tyrants
DAUGHTER gives him a reference:
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
Does ANYONE apart from these LUNATIC and DESPERATE atheist
liars.. believe that a LIE about Stalin could be published
officially in 1940 WITHOUT STALIN'S APPROVAL!!???
Like the Neo-Nazis, modern atheists make themselves COMPLICIT
by their holocaust denial!
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis,
The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
"Joseph Stalin was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the
Soviet Union's Central Committee from 1922 until his death in 1953.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Stalin was responsible for turning Christian priests into
human icy poles..
"In 1922, the Solovki Camp of Special Purpose,
the first Russian concentration camp was established
in the Solovki Islands in the White Sea"
If Stalin was a Christian then Steve Knight is the POPE!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAH
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
> "Upon my father's most recent birthday, I asked him why he had book
> upon book in his library about Jesus, and Christianity. I had been
> agnostic for many years, and mostly ambivalent to religion itself, so
> I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He said that he did, that Jesus
> did exist. He told me of his journey to find the real Jesus and he
> was absolutely convinced that Jesus was the son of God. I must say
> that I was greatly surprised."
>
> Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva, youngest daughter of Joseph Stalin and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
And Uday Hussein says his Dad, Saddam, was a lovely caring Man! B^D
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/rev920/thread%20bombs/8Ball.gif
Fer Fucks sake, how STUPID are you???
And Lenin, Mao POL POT and EVERY MEMBER OF THE PARTY, ALL ATHEISTS,
were in the SAME MOULD!!!!
Read some history you ignorant apologist for the atheist holocausts!
We are SICK of the bogus claims of atheist psychopaths and criminals
designed to DISCREDIT religion by atheists associating themselves with it:
# "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints
# of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart
# after being refused permission to put atheist
# advertising on buses." - The Age 29/1/2009
#
# "atheism counts as a religion, though we say
# we're not one," Dr Perkins said."
Magic *-Ball says:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/DarkSoul0703/thmagic8ball.jpg
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
fasgnadh
fasgnadh wrote:
> Jimbo wrote:
>>> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>>
>>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not
>>>> long ago on a national station.
>>>> During the interview, he was asked to justify the
>>>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>>>>
>>>> responsible for the mass murders perpetrated by communist
>>>> leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ceausescu?
>>>> Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant
>>>> atheists prefer not to acknowledge.
Every atheist regime was a murderous tyranny.
Every Party member was an atheist.
Over 60,000,000 people were terrorised tortured and murdered
>> Stalin was not Atheist.
Because, Like Saddam Hussein, His Kids say he was a Saint? B^D
THE MAN HIMSELF SAID SO, 1940, PUBLISHED!!
BY THE MOSCOW PRESS *HE* CONTROLLED you FUCKWIT!
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
- E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
MaJik8-Ball says
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/DarkSoul0703/thmagic8ball.jpg
>> Another lie told by another
atheist
and then there is Lenin, who started the atheist holocausts
and you have also 'forgotten' Mao and Pol Pot.. and EVERY
Party Member, ...atheists:
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Every atheist state was a murderous, totalitarian shithole!
>> No suprise there.
>
> Mm, he grew up Christian Orthodox and did his college at a seminary
> for Ortho priests,
This old crock, again?
There were no other schools!
The atheist were too fucking DUMB or too fucking Lazy,
or it was two much work for the pair of them!! B^D
If you wanted an education, you went to the Church school.
Stalin never finished.. he left...
HE joined the communist party where he killed Christians in their Millions!
The Militant atheists just keep repeating the same old shit
that atheist Holocaust deniers pump out and I will keep exposing their
lies and demonstrating why historians LAUGH AT THEM!
like I'm about to do! ;-)
> but I'm pretty comfortable that he was an atheist.
Correct. And like every atheist leader, a murderous TYRANT!
> Similarly, Pol Pot was raised Catholic in a Catholic school
for the same reasons...
the Religious provided all the essentials for civilisation,
schools hospices science, throughout history.
> but ended up an atheist.
You make it sound accidental! B^D
They CHOSE to be atheist killers.
> If you want to argue that their strict religious education was the
> genesis of their willingness to force others to their POV,
That would be absurd, as most leaders with religious upbringings
are NOT psycho killers... but EVERY atheist leader was!!!!
Are you capable of rational analysis?
So ...they are what they are.. Atheist tyrants.
There are no atheist states that were open democratic,
rights based societies like the Majority Religious Usa,
Oz, Europe, Indonesia.. etc etc
> I for one would not argue against you.
It is a waste of time arguing with atheist bigots
and Holocaust deniers.. I agree!
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
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fasgnadh
> On Sep 23, 4:02 pm, "Timothy 1:4a" <canfanor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 1:33 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sep 22, 11:16 am, IAAH <n...@email.exist> wrote:
>>>> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>>>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago
>>>>> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the
>>>>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>>
>
> Well, we're all glad you're comfortable. However, history says
> otherwise.
History says Tim wasn't comfortable? B^D
MaJik 8-Ball says
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd292/Stasibasiphobic/Magic8Ball.gif
Jimbo
It is. I remember reading an article about a French National that was
accused of multiple rapes that was given asylum at the Vatican that is
still there. The French has been trying to get him back for over a
decade now. Of course, in a way, he is inprisoned there since the
moment he were to step foot outside of Vatican City, the Italian or
French authorities would pick him up.
Kadaitcha Man
> TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus] wrote:
>>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
> Your evidence for this
Numbers of murdered millions by official atheists...
Mao Tse Tung: 65 million
Stalin: 25 million (Stalin +others in former USSR)
Vietnam: 1 million
North Korea: 2 million
Cambodia: 2 million
Eastern Europe: 1 million
Africa (various): 1.7 million
Afghanistan: 1.5 million
Others: 10,000
Total estimated deaths from offical atheism: 99 million.
Source: http://www.ncpa.org/debate2/blackbook.html
National Center for Policy Analysis
Now, let us suppose that modern man, post 1900, is far
more rational and reasonable than 11th to 13th Century
Roman Catholic Cultists, erroneously called Christians.
One source puts the death toll of the crusades at:
"thousands"
"thousands"
10-60,000 + 100,000
"thousands"
10,000
1 million
200,000
"numerous thousands"
20 million
Being very generous with the numbers, I will change all sub-million
estimates to 1 million to ensure coverage of dodgy estimates and
various unknowns:
1 million
1 million
1 million
1 million
1 million
1 million
1 million
1 million
20 million
Total: 28 million
The total does not include the deaths of others for the following
categories:
Ancient Pagans "thousands"
Mission 11,000
Heretics and Atheists
"numerous thousands"
0,000-70,000
100,000
Witches (duplicates estimates, highest is "several hundred thousand")
Other Religious Wars[*]
[*] This section includes all numbers estimates for deaths
due to Roman Catholic Cultists persecuting Christians and
Jews. Since these are murders perpetrated by cultsists,
it is probably questionable to include them since
Christians are the victims here. In fact, all of the
above numbers are demonstrably the crimes of an
an evil cult against humanity, not the crimes
of Christians.
These numbers are left out because they relate
to religious wars between a cult and Christians,
where Christians were the victims.
Adding up the murderous totals for the Roman Catholic Cult, and
changing several hundreds of thousands of others into, oh, say several
million, 5 million will do, I get a total of 32 million deaths at the
hands of the cultists.
http://www.geocities.com/iconoclastes.geo/victims.html
Comparing 32 million deaths at the hands of a cult, over against
99 million at the hands of official atheists, I get a ratio of
close to 3 to 1, or about 33%.
So, 32 MILLION deaths erroneously ascribed to Christians,
perpetrated over SIX HUNDRED YEARS ago, spanning a period of
about 300-400 years, against 99 MILLION in LESS THAN 100 YEARS
perpetrated by official atheists.
So much for your assertion that "There is no atheist that was responsible
for anything", eh?
If those numbers are scaled, official atheism would have
accounted for 400 MILLION deaths over against 32 MILLION
in the same period.
HTH
--
I'm one of those linuxfux. So sue me.
Timothy 1:4a
<snip>
>
> Every atheist regime was a murderous tyranny.
Really? Abraham Lincoln is maybe debatable for the Civil War, but
where are the piles of dead from America's Thomas Jefferson, France's
Georges Clemenceau, Russia's Gorbachev?
For the final time from me: you have a problem with communist
revolutionaries, not atheists. A political fanatic is just as
dangerous as a religious fanatic. When they get interested in good
government instead of dogma, as Chinese leaders have now done, things
get better.
Jimbo
600 Years ago? Apparently you're leaving out the numbers killed by
Christians, such as Hitler (Catholic), and the aboriginal peoples
killed by Christians on both the American continents, and Austrailia
in the name of "divine right", and the most recent pogrom committed by
Easter Orthodox Christians against Muslims in Bosnia.
And that's JUST the Christians. Toss in the deaths attributed to
Muslim activity, and that is many millions more.
>
> So much for your assertion that "There is no atheist that was responsible
> for anything", eh?
>
The difference being that no Atheist has ever placed Atheist symbols
on their uniforms or shields and marched to war in the name of no god.
Kadaitcha Man
Apparently you can't read.
Warlord MaJik8
On a per capita ruled per year basis, Atheism is the most savage
parasitic ideology ever to infect mankind.
> 600 Years ago?
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/DarkSoul0703/thmagic8ball.jpg
> Apparently you're leaving out the numbers killed by
> Christians, such as Hitler (Catholic), and the aboriginal peoples
> killed by Christians on both the American continents, and Austrailia
> in the name of "divine right", and the most recent pogrom committed by
> Easter Orthodox Christians against Muslims in Bosnia.
No figures? No credibility
>
> And that's JUST the Christians.
Well, you can't aggregate them.
According to you atheists they all believe DIFFERENT things.
Atheism, on the other hand, you tell us, is a single concept.
> Toss in the deaths attributed to
> Muslim activity, and that is many millions more.
No figures? No credibility
>> So much for your assertion that "There is no atheist that was responsible
>> for anything", eh?
>>
>
> The difference being that
Every Crime against humanity committed in the NAME of the major
world religions has been in direct violation of the ethical principles
spiritual teachings and LAW (commandments) of those religions, and
is the aberrant behaviour of those who corrupted, perverted and
subverted the religion.
This is proven by the fact that most of the prosperous, open,
democratic and pluralist democracies are majority religious
societies.. so it is NOT the religion which caused the
crimes in the others.
But there is nothing in Atheism that prohibits such crimes.
And that explains why EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian
tyranny.
The empirical evidence from history is overwhelming.
Any atheist hypocrite who chooses to LIVE in a tolerant, prosperous,
democratic pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS society has to explain their
HYPOCRISY. I will pass the hat around so they can afford a one
way trip to Nth Korea... last of the Atheist Dystopias ! B^]
> no Atheist has ever placed Atheist symbols
You have symbols? Apart from this one;
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
Oh, I forgot...
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
> on their uniforms or shields and marched to war
Atheist Holocaust deniers still celebrate mass murdering atheist tyrants;
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8294?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8293?context=latest
> in the name of no god.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u31/DunadanLord/magic8ballsaysyoureone.jpg
--
--------
The Parable of the Magic 8-Ball - Warlord Overboard!
Fluffy threw a Hissy fit and asked Google to
stop people reporting what he said:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats and
# not in a girly way.
Suffering from IDD (Irony Deficit Disorder), Fluffy
complained that REPORTING WHAT HE SAID, VERBATIM,
was 'abuse'.. and it was making him very very sad,
and could someone please stop them doing it!
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: Atheist Kooks: Sociopath shifts blame to others
# for their mistakes Re: A.A. Steve Knight checking in to Bellevue
# Message-ID: <1jivb5dparaegkqht...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:32:49 -0700
#
# FAQ pages for alt.atheism could land you in court.
#
# I reported you to Google abuse
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/DarkSoul0703/thmagic8ball.jpg
Google Laughed and asked him if he would accept
Jesus in his life, because it might be the only way
he could GET ONE!
The Knights of BAAWA realised they had bought a dud,
and decided to replace Fluffy as Warlord, with a
Magic 8-Ball after tests showed it outperformed
him in leadership, intelligence and more accurately
shitting down peoples throats, and it only cost 8 bucks!
Warlord MaJik8 was Interviewed after winning the job;
a.a: "Do you have any any words for the defeated ex-Warlord?"
MaJik8:
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/adholmes0428/My%20Stuff/Magic8BallSays.jpg
a.a: "And what do you see as the future for alt.atheism
and atheism worldwide?"
MaJik8
http://blogs.netapp.com/exposed/WindowsLiveWriter/magic-8-ball-3.jpg
Refusing to accept that it was all over for him -Ex Warlord Fluffy
made a desperate attempt to hang on to power;
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/ashwu_xoxo/Halloween2008/IMG_2259.jpg
Warlord MaJik8 was devastating in his assessment:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u31/DunadanLord/magic8ballsaysyoureone.jpg
Fluffy went out asking if the Blind Cricketer was still around because
he wanted to get far away, as quickly as he could.... ;-)
See "Fluffy leaves the Field":
Smiler
I once started 'The Cult of the Pissed Off'.
It didn't last very long. All the members got pissed off with it and left!
:-)
Jimbo
> On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:57:34 -0700, Jimbo wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 6:40 am, Kadaitcha Man <a...@no.email> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:47:25 +0100, Smiler wrote:
> >> > TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus] wrote:
> >> >>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
> >> > Your evidence for this
>
> >> Numbers of murdered millions by official atheists...
>
> >> Mao Tse Tung: 65 million
> >> Stalin: 25 million (Stalin +others in former USSR) Vietnam:
> >> 1 million
> >> North Korea: 2 million
> >> Cambodia: 2 million
> >> Eastern Europe: 1 million
> >> Africa (various): 1.7 million
> >> Afghanistan: 1.5 million
> >> Others: 10,000
>
> >> Total estimated deaths from offical atheism: 99 million.
>
I read quite well. Additionally, Stalin wasn't atheist.
Jimbo
What a laugh. You're saying that because we don't have exact figures
on these events, they never existed?
Jimbo
According to his daughter, Stalin was also Christian.
"Upon my father's most recent birthday, I asked him why he had book
upon book in his library about Jesus, and Christianity. I had been
agnostic for many years, and mostly ambivalent to religion itself, so
I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He said that he did, that
Jesus
did exist. He told me of his journey to find the real Jesus and he
was absolutely convinced that Jesus was the son of God. I must say
that I was greatly surprised."
Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva, youngest daughter of Joseph Stalin and
and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
Trance Gemini
And yet they defrock Priests for having affairs with adult women
immediately.
Insane.
Kadaitcha Man
> I read<BITCHSLAP>
Lying atheist shit, blood and sperm fuckstain on a homosexual's bedsheets.
Trance Gemini
> On Oct 2, 7:53 am, Warlord MaJik8 <MaJ...@delphic.oracle> wrote:
<snipped>
> > No figures? No credibility
>
> What a laugh. You're saying that because we don't have exact figures
> on these events, they never existed?
Here's some interesting statistics Jimbo.
Now generally speaking I don't agree that either atheism or theism has
been responsible for any deaths because no-one has been killed in the
*name* of atheism or theism.
People have been killed in the name of *Christianity*, *Islam*,
*Communism*, *Fascism*, etc.
That is, it's dogmatic beliefs based on religious and political
doctrines that have been behind these deaths.
Irrespective of that fact, this breakdown and comparison of the
"Theism vs Atheism" death count is quite interesting.
Source: http://atheistblogger.com/2008/07/02/death-toll-theism-vs-atheism/
Many theists argue that atheism has caused only death and destruction,
whilst their respective religions preach only peace and love. So what
does the evidence look like? The Teapot Atheist did a load of research
and counting and has reported his results.
His findings don’t bear well for theism, even with his extremely
generous methodology in its favour:
Where deaths from theism are concerned, I have normally low-balled
the estimates as a favor because the differential is so staggering and
theism needs all the bones it can have tossed in its direction. For
atheism, I go with the highest possible estimates.
To add insult to injury, The Teapot Atheist included in the atheism
section, deaths caused by Pol Pots regime even though there is no
evidence that he was an atheist (his regime was harshly anti-religious
though), as well as Stalin, who has recently been considered a deist /
closet-theist by historians.
So how do the scores match up?
Theism has managed to kill an estimate of 2,229,074,100 people.
Atheism has managed to kill an estimate of 95,000,000 people.
Just let those figures sink in a bit. Over 2 billion people are dead
as a result of theist wars and actions. That number is about 33.3% of
the current human population of Earth. In contrast, atheism is
responsible for the deaths of just less than 100 million, roughly
1.58% of the current human population of Earth.
Now, these results don’t in any way suggest that theism causes people
to commit murder, but that the main factor in most of the wars and
conflicts in history has been a difference in religious beliefs. Every
holy book of every theist religion preaches love and respect for
fellow man, there is no way I can debate that. However, every holy
book also preaches the destruction of anyone who says otherwise and
stands against the words of whichever god it claims is the “correct”
one.
This is the deep deep flaw of theism. There are too many varieties,
and whilst each one has a similar story, its author has taken an
extraordinary amount of time making sure that it differs in some
conceivable way. Just enough to provide the necessary contradictions
to send all religions colliding against each other in a never-ending
war.
The victims are both those who get killed and those killing in the
name of religion. Brainwashed by men who wanted to control the world,
and used religion to try to achieve their goals. The heroes in this
tragic truth are easy to point out. They are the freethinkers, the
skeptics, the naturalists, the rationalists; every single person who
has ever seen the flaws of theism and said “Enough is enough”.
If atheism has proved anything, it is that without a god, humans still
murder for no good reason; they just do it much less often.
fasgnadh
>
You and I have already had this conversation, you lost
and ran away.. now you snip ALL those facts above
and repeat your ONE LITTLE LIE! B^p
FOAD! You are a JOKE. incapable of rational argument!
Go back to this thread where you previously ignored
ALL the EVIDENCE, advanced that nonsense and it was DEMOLISHED:
From: fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Atheism Was Responsible For 60,000,000 dead
Message-ID: <aGWwm.44404$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:58:46 GMT
Jimbo wrote:
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> Jimbo wrote:
>>>> * J wrote, On 9/22/09 10:57 AM:
>>>>
>>>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
>>>>> A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not
>>>>> long ago
>>>>> on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to
>>>>> justify the
>>>>> evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin.
>>>
>>> Stalin was not Atheist.
>>
>> "You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
>> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" - Stalin
>> - E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
>> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
>>
>> > Another lie told by another
>> atheist
>>
>> and then there is Lenin, who started the atheist holocausts;
>>
>>
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
>> - Lenin
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>>
>>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Atheists are so incapable of serious, rational argument
they think all the evidence of history can be ignored if a tyrants
DAUGHTER gives him a reference:
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
Does ANYONE apart from these LUNATIC and DESPERATE atheist
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAH
> "Upon my father's most recent birthday, I asked him why he had book
> upon book in his library about Jesus, and Christianity. I had been
> agnostic for many years, and mostly ambivalent to religion itself, so
> I asked him if he believed in Jesus. He said that he did, that Jesus
> did exist. He told me of his journey to find the real Jesus and he
> was absolutely convinced that Jesus was the son of God. I must say
> that I was greatly surprised."
>
> Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva, youngest daughter of Joseph Stalin and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
And Uday Hussein says his Dad, Saddam, was a lovely caring Man! B^D
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/rev920/thread%20bombs/8Ball.gif
Fer Fucks sake, how STUPID are you???
And Lenin, Mao POL POT and EVERY MEMBER OF THE PARTY, ALL ATHEISTS,
were in the SAME MOULD!!!!
Read some history you ignorant apologist for the atheist holocausts!
We are SICK of the bogus claims of atheist psychopaths and criminals
designed to DISCREDIT religion by atheists associating themselves with it:
# "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints
# of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart
# after being refused permission to put atheist
# advertising on buses." - The Age 29/1/2009
#
# "atheism counts as a religion, though we say
# we're not one," Dr Perkins said."
Magic *-Ball says:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/DarkSoul0703/thmagic8ball.jpg
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
fasgnadh
"If Hitler was a Christian then Steve Knight is the POPE!"
> What a laugh. You're saying that because we don't have exact figures
No I'm saying you don't have ANY figures.. B^D
or any argument.
You are the fuckwit who thinks if Stalin's daughter, (or Uday Hussein),
say their dads are great blokes, you will believe it without question
but if you are presented with HISTORICAL EVIDENCE you ignore it,
snip'n'run
I have no time to waste on you, come back when you have an argument.
<paste what he ran from>
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAH
> and Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/rev920/thread%20bombs/8Ball.gif
Magic *-Ball says:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/DarkSoul0703/thmagic8ball.jpg
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
Jimbo
> On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 06:00:16 -0700, Jimbo wrote:
> > On Oct 2, 7:27 am, Kadaitcha Man <a...@no.email> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:57:34 -0700, Jimbo wrote:
> >> > On Oct 1, 6:40 am, Kadaitcha Man <a...@no.email> wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:47:25 +0100, Smiler wrote:
> >> >> > TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus] wrote:
> >> >> >>>> WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
> >> >> > Your evidence for this
>
> >> >> Numbers of murdered millions by official atheists...
>
> >> >> Mao Tse Tung: 65 million
> >> >> Stalin: 25 million (Stalin +others in former USSR)
> >> >> Vietnam:
> >> >> 1 million
> >> >> North Korea: 2 million
> >> >> Cambodia: 2 million
> >> >> Eastern Europe: 1 million
> >> >> Africa (various): 1.7 million
> >> >> Afghanistan: 1.5 million
> >> >> Others: 10,000
>
> >> >> Total estimated deaths from offical atheism: 99 million.
>
Nope, it's quite the truth. I read just fine, and Stalin wasn't an
atheist.
Jimbo
Exactly.
>
> > Of course, in a way, he is inprisoned there since the
> > moment he were to step foot outside of Vatican City, the Italian or
> > French authorities would pick him up.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Judicial Corruption Australia
>> "I don't care what you fuckers think".
>
Australia's de facto Bill of Rights (HREOCA1986) under threat from a
Corrupt, Racist White nation
Inquiry into Access to Justice.d.web.pdf
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B2aSuWg5-JMZMGFlNzNjYzAtZjE5ZC00YzNlLTg0ZjQtOWUxN2M3YTRjZjkw&hl=en
Letter to Mr Charles Pham.web.pdf
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B2aSuWg5-JMZNzY2YjNhNDYtZTkzYi00NmE0LWJhZWMtOGNhYTQ4ZDZiMTUx&hl=en
Senate.Enquiries.update.31July2009.web.pdf
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B2aSuWg5-JMZNTk3OGU2NGQtYTc2MS00ZjI3LTlkZTItZDliMzAyMWI0ZjJl&hl=en
Judicial corruption exposes institutionalised racism that reaches all
up the way to the High Court Australia. An officer of the Royal
Australian Navy is left without medical care as he was harassed
victimised and unlawfully discriminated against as he exposed unsafe
working conditions in the Navy, that put public safety and lives at
risk.
He approached HREOC with a complaint under HREOCA1986 and RDA1975;
what he found was institutional racism, coverup and perverting of the
Human Rights Act, violating Australia's obligation under International
Treaties ICCPR and ICERD. The president of HREOC, John von Doussa
violated HREOAC1986 in refusing to investigate his White mates, and
then refusing to terminate the complaints so that it can be heard in
the Federal Courts.
More institutionalised racism occurred at the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal, where Senior Member John Handley proceeded to pervert
justice by fabricating documents and evidence.
Questions of Law will be asked of the validity of the HREOAC1986 and
RDA1975 as the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee,
chair and co-chair, Senators Barnett and Crossin indicated that
Inquiries into Access to Justice, Australia's Legal System and the
Role of Judges should not be of assistance to Australian Citizens of
ethnic backgrounds.
Institutionalised racism and corruption in the Judiciary have made
political prisoners of Aborigines such as Lex Wotton, dogwhistled to
corrupt police leading to Black Deaths in Custody, putting public
health and safety in jeopardy, and allowing a four (4) year old
Aborigines girl to die after having been refused medical care at a Qld
hospital, political assasination of Phuong Ngo, political assasination
of Frederick Toben.
They set them up to fail and when they fail, they call them inferior
and lock them up.
Racist and corrupt White nation inciting racial hatred and Black
Deaths in Custody, reduce the Black Man to fight for his basic human
rights
The High Court Australia has been labelled racist by Justice Michael
Kirby. The Australian Michael Pelley called the High Court racist and
hyprocrites. They are so afraid of the HREOCA1986, because even the
High Court Australia must obey an Act of Parliament.
Corrupt and racist Judiciary will fight with all its might and means
to deprive us of HREOCA1986, to deprive us of Habeas Corpus as we file
such writs for Lex Wotton, Phuong Ngo, and Frederick Toben. We might
not like their politics or ethnicity, but their loss of judicial
independence and fairness, and their experience of judicial abuse of
discretionary powers will greatly affect us all now and in the future.
Until Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee and Australian
Parliament secede from ICCPR and ICERD, even the High Court must obey
HREOCA1986. We must fight for HREOCA1986 even if the Corrupt changes
its name, because it is the only Bill of Rights we have."
administrator
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com
iWitness: Judicial Corruption
http://iwitness.x24hr.com/judicial_corruption/
> If Institutionalised Racism kills, High Court Australia criminal? You
>bet
>
>http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2137/75221326522959327217259.jpg
>
>
>
>http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/61/logohreoc.gif
>
><img src="http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/61/logohreoc.gif">
>
Request that UN Committee on Elimination of Racism to prosecute WHITE
Racist Nations, incl Australia
Request that UN Committee on Elimination of Racism to prosecute WHITE
Racist Nations, incl Australia
Cant the Whiteman be trusted with a signed Treaty?
Come join this petition, and save American Taxpayers' dollars on
useless UN rorts that only go to fuel terrorism through their
hypocrisy and abuse of UN process, and the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights.
<a
href="http://www.change.org/actions/view/
request_that_un_committee_on_elimination_of_racism_to_prosecute_white_racist_nations_incl_australia">change.org</
a>
<a
href="http://www.change.org/actions/view/
request_that_un_committee_on_elimination_of_racism_to_prosecute_white_racist_nations_incl_australia">Change.org</
a>
<blockquote>
The Hypocrisy of the UN Human Rights Bodies continues unabated. It
seems like the western world can do no wrong, and western countries
like Australia can ride rougshod over UN Human Rights Treaties, and at
the same time can dictate to less developed nations.
REF: G/SO AUS 215/4
http://rapidshare.com/files/101392885/OHCHR.23February2008.web.pdf.html
1. Communication to: Special Rapporteur of the Commission on Human
Rights on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers
2. Submitted for consideration under International Convention on the
Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
Kangaroo Court of Australia
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com
Institutionalised Discrimination and Corruption in Australian Legal
System
Universal declaration on human rights
come join my group and help assist the OHCHR uphold its human rights
mandates
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10385581643
Below and an account of Institutionalised racism within in the
Australian Judicial System and the High Court Australia:
https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/07/435415.html
NB. i need the email address of the UN Secretary General
Torsten Schackel
Acting Secretary of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial
Discrimination
Human Rights Treaties Branch
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
Tel. +41.22.917.9614 - Fax +41.22.917.90.29
e-mail: tsch...@ohchr.org
Palais Wilson - 52, rue des P�quis, CH-1201, Geneva, Switzerland
Mailing address: UNOG-OHCHR, CH-1211 Geneva 10, Switzerland
Joyce Fucio,
Administrative Assistant
Secretariat of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial
Discrimination
Treaties and Commission Branch
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
Tel. +41.22.917.94.09 - Fax +41.22.917.90.22
e-mail: jfu...@ohchr.org
Palais Wilson - 52, rue des P�quis, CH-1201, Geneva, Switzerland
Mailing address: UNOG-OHCHR, CH-1211 Geneva 10, Switzerland
"Under Article 14 of International Convenant on the Elimination of All
Forms of Racial Discrimination, individuals can file submissions to
the International Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial
Discrimination if the country has signed the UN ICERD Treaty and allow
the Committee to hear such submissions.
The Committee has a moral obligation if not a legal obligation to
investigate and make recommendations. The Committee has a moral duty
if not legal obligation to return correspondence.
REF: G/SO AUS 215/4
http://rapidshare.com/files/101392885/OHCHR.23February2008.web.pdf.html
1. Communication to: Special Rapporteur of the Commission on Human
Rights on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers
2. Submitted for consideration under International Convention on the
Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
Kangaroo Court of Australia
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com
Institutionalised Discrimination and Corruption in Australian Legal
System
The lack of correpondence from the Committee shed bad light on the UN
process as a whole and violates the Universal Declaration on Human
Rights.
We urge Mr Secretary General Mr Ban Ki-Moon to request that the
Committee carry out their duty and make Dignity and Justice for ALL
and not just some people."
</blockquote>
Australia's de facto Bill of Rights (HREOCA1986) under threat from a
Corrupt, Racist White nation
Judicial corruption exposes institutionalised racism that reaches all
up the way to the High Court Australia. An officer of the Royal
Australian Navy is left without medical care as he was harassed
victimised and unlawfully discriminated against as he exposed unsafe
working conditions in the Navy, that put public safety and lives at
risk.
He approached HREOC with a complaint under HREOCA1986 and RDA1975;
what he found was institutional racism, coverup and perverting of the
Human Rights Act, violating Australia's obligation under International
Treaties ICCPR and ICERD. The president of HREOC, John von Doussa
violated HREOAC1986 in refusing to investigate his White mates, and
then refusing to terminate the complaints so that it can be heard in
the Federal Courts.
More institutionalised racism occurred at the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal, where Senior Member John Handley proceeded to pervert
justice by fabricating documents and evidence.
Questions of Law will be asked of the validity of the HREOAC1986 and
RDA1975 as the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee,
chair and co-chair, Senators Barnett and Crossin indicated that
Inquiries into Access to Justice, Australia's Legal System and the
Role of Judges should not be of assistance to Australian Citizens of
ethnic backgrounds.
Institutionalised racism and corruption in the Judiciary have made
political prisoners of Aborigines such as Lex Wotton, dogwhistled to
corrupt police leading to Black Deaths in Custody, putting public
health and safety in jeopardy, and allowing a four (4) year old
Aborigines girl to die after having been refused medical care at a Qld
hospital, political assasination of Phuong Ngo, political assasination
of Frederick Toben.
They set them up to fail and when they fail, they call them inferior
and lock them up.
Racist and corrupt White nation inciting racial hatred and Black
Deaths in Custody, reduce the Black Man to fight for his basic human
rights
The High Court Australia has been labelled racist by Justice Michael
Kirby. The Australian Michael Pelley called the High Court racist and
hyprocrites. They are so afraid of the HREOCA1986, because even the
High Court Australia must obey an Act of Parliament.
Corrupt and racist Judiciary will fight with all its might and means
to deprive us of HREOCA1986, to deprive us of Habeas Corpus as we file
such writs for Lex Wotton, Phuong Ngo, and Frederick Toben. We might
not like their politics or ethnicity, but their loss of judicial
independence and fairness, and their experience of judicial abuse of
discretionary powers will greatly affect us all now and in the future.
Until Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee and Australian
Parliament secede from ICCPR and ICERD, even the High Court must obey
HREOCA1986. We must fight for HREOCA1986 even if the Corrupt changes
its name, because it is the only Bill of Rights we have."
administrator
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com
iWitness: Judicial Corruption
http://iwitness.x24hr.com/judicial_corruption/
=
-----------------------------------------
why little Johnnie Winston Coward Howard?
why must you cover up for your crooked white mates like crooked high
court judges French, Hayne, Gummow and Crennan JJ ?
Senate Enquiries: Whitewash
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/legcon_ctte/judicial_system/in...
iWitness: Judicial Corruption Australia
http://iwitness.x24hr.com/judicial_corruption/index.php?/topic/2217-y...
Heres a Documentary on how these corrupt judges conspire to pervert
justice and fabricate documents, include the newly appointed Chief
Justice Robert Stenton French
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyj_gWqdDWQ
The little Johnnie Winston Coward Howard neverending Magic Pudding therapy,
where feckin white pedophiles with the nerve to accuse blackfellas !!!
Crooked racist white Australia ^^
http://iwitness.x24hr.com/judicial_corruption/index.php
http://kangaroocourtaustralia.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyj_gWqdDWQ&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/user/fightKangarooCourts
Christopher A. Lee
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 2, 9:01�ｿｽam, Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 2, 7:53�ｿｽam, Warlord MaJik8 <MaJ...@delphic.oracle> wrote:
>
><snipped>
>
>> > No figures? �ｿｽNo credibility
>>
>> What a laugh. �ｿｽYou're saying that because we don't have exact figures
>> on these events, they never existed?
>
>Here's some interesting statistics Jimbo.
>
>Now generally speaking I don't agree that either atheism or theism has
>been responsible for any deaths because no-one has been killed in the
>*name* of atheism or theism.
>
>People have been killed in the name of *Christianity*, *Islam*,
>*Communism*, *Fascism*, etc.
Too many Christians are in denial about its bloody history, especially
since today's Christianity feigns a touch-feely, can't do anything bad
image.
The conquest and conversion of much of Western Europe by Charlemagne?
The massacres of the the Cathars ("Kill them all, God will take care
of his own")? The Crusades? The mutual slaughter between Catholics and
Protestants during the Reformation? The Thirty Years War? Two
millennia of Christian anti-Semitism fostered and encouraged by both
Protestant and Catholic church fathers culminating in the holocaust
whose perpetrator said he was "doing theLord's work"? The conquest of
the Americas, particulary the Spanish conquistadors who executed a few
million native Americans in their colonies as heretics?
>That is, it's dogmatic beliefs based on religious and political
>doctrines that have been behind these deaths.
A friend couldn't understand why a decent person like myself could be
associated with an ideology that was responsible for all sorts of
evil.
Eh?
Atheistic communism.
I'm not and never have been a communist. That is an economic system.
Atheism is simply not being theist. Communists were both atheist and
theist especially in South and Central America, just look at the
Pope's reception in Cuba. Even soviet communists included Russian
Orthodox Christians, etc.
After back and forth explanation, questions and further explanations
including "why" I am atheist because I simply wasn't taught to be
theist in my formative years...
...when it seemed to be getting through to him, he seemed to switch
off and "re-boot", asking "but what about atheistic communism?"
>Irrespective of that fact, this breakdown and comparison of the
>"Theism vs Atheism" death count is quite interesting.
>
>Source: http://atheistblogger.com/2008/07/02/death-toll-theism-vs-atheism/
It mentions Pol Pot, who by all accounts was a Buddhist.
And Stalin who was educated in a Georgian Eastern Orthodox seminary,
attended Eastern Orthodoc services and had an Eastern Orthodox
funeral.
>Many theists argue that atheism has caused only death and destruction,
>whilst their respective religions preach only peace and love. So what
>does the evidence look like? The Teapot Atheist did a load of research
>and counting and has reported his results.
>
>His findings don�ｿｽt bear well for theism, even with his extremely
>generous methodology in its favour:
>
> Where deaths from theism are concerned, I have normally low-balled
>the estimates as a favor because the differential is so staggering and
>theism needs all the bones it can have tossed in its direction. For
>atheism, I go with the highest possible estimates.
>
>To add insult to injury, The Teapot Atheist included in the atheism
>section, deaths caused by Pol Pots regime even though there is no
>evidence that he was an atheist (his regime was harshly anti-religious
>though), as well as Stalin, who has recently been considered a deist /
>closet-theist by historians.
>
>So how do the scores match up?
>
>Theism has managed to kill an estimate of 2,229,074,100 people.
>
>Atheism has managed to kill an estimate of 95,000,000 people.
Not atheism per se because the exact equivalent of not believing in
pixies, is a non-event that neither justifies nor motivates anything.
Percentage wise, the Thirty Years war was one of the largest.
In absolute terms the deaths during conquest of the Americas,
including killing of native North Americans as heathens, not just the
Spanish conquest of South and Central America as well as California,
Texas etc, and the African Slave trade were worse than anything
attributed to atheists - and they were carried out with the documented
motivation and justification of Christianity. For example the black
slaves were considered the descendents of Ham.
>Just let those figures sink in a bit. Over 2 billion people are dead
>as a result of theist wars and actions. That number is about 33.3% of
>the current human population of Earth. In contrast, atheism is
>responsible for the deaths of just less than 100 million, roughly
>1.58% of the current human population of Earth.
Atheism isn't responsible for anything any more than not collecting
stamps is.
At worst, atheists don't give believers the free ride they're
accustomed to.
Kadaitcha Man
> N<BITCHSLAP>
Did you have something impotent to convey?
Jimbo
Lying theist.