Origins of word Wlochy
Stefanie Rudnicki
-Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
-There was an Italian,named Wloch or something similar, who was once in the court of a Polish king. Hence Wlochy.
-Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? I mean Wlochy and Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has got to be a historical context.
Thanks.
Stefanie A. Rudnicki
stef...@eden.rutgers.edu
Jacek Okolowicz
Thanks.
Stefanie A. Rudnicki
stef...@eden.rutgers.edu
========================================== end of citation
I know nothing more about two former points, but as far as the last
point is concerned it was just the other way round: because many
vegetables came to Poland when Bona Sforza had become Queen of Poland
(marrying king Sigismundus I) they are known under common name:
wl/oszczyzna, which is not exactly equivalent to vegetables (jarzyny).
You're welcomed
Jacek Okolowicz
Wojtek Rypniewski
|> I am wondering if anyone has any history on the origin of Wlochy as the Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
|>
|> -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
|>
|> -There was an Italian,named Wloch or something similar, who was once in the court of a Polish king. Hence Wlochy.
|>
|> -Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
|>
|> Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? I mean Wlochy and Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has got to be a historical context.
|>
The origin of the Polish name for Italy, Wlochy, comes from a distant
suburb of Warsaw, also called Wlochy. In the olden times it used to be
a separate settlement. Although not very affluent, it was a quiet, nice
place, off the beaten track. Unfortunately, the teritorial expansion
of Warsaw soon threatend its distinct identity and rustic character.
Incensed by this, some of the inhabitants packed up their belongings and
emigrated south in search of a better life. They crossed the Alps and
found themselves in a large, completely uninhabited country in which
they made their new home. Much later the land became known as Italy.
The name Italy is derived from much more recent immigrants -- an assortment
of primitive tribes, collectively known as Italians. Their origin, prior
to their arrival in Wlochy, is unknown. In fact, their only claim to fame
is the invention of a distinct, skewed way of writing. The Italics were
later subdued and assimilated by the even later arrivals in Wlochy,
the Romans.
I hope this answers your question.
Wojtek
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wojciech R. Rypniewski tel: +49-40-89902142
EMBL c/o DESY fax: +49-40-89902149
Notkestrasse 85 E-mail: woj...@embl-hamburg.de
D-22603 Hamburg, Germany WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
One should never believe any experiment
until it has been confirmed by theory. - Sir Arthur Eddington
------------------------------------------------------------------------
arm...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> I am wondering if anyone has any history on the origin of Wlochy as the Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
>
> -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
>
> -There was an Italian,named Wloch or something similar, who was once in the court of a Polish king. Hence Wlochy.
>
> -Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
>
> Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? I mean Wlochy and Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has got to be a historical context.
>
Words with the wloch/vlach/valach/walach etc root are used in most of the
Slavic languages to refer to people who spoke a Latin-descended language
(Italian, Romanian, some Balkan dialects that are most closely related
to Romanian). I'd always thought the name of the people derived from
the region in southern Romania called (in English) Wallachia, which I
understand in turn got its name from an early tribe.
There are the Wallachians living in Romanian Wallachia; the nomadic Vlachs
in the Balkans; the Wallachians/Wolosi who wandered along the Carpathians
from Romania (possibly originating even farther south) through Ukraine,
Poland, and Slovakia into Moravia (where there is also a region
called Wallachia: Valassko); and the Italians/Wlochy. In the Carpathians,
over the years the term Wallachian came to mean not a member of that
tribe, but rather a shepherd in general, or a certain rank in the
hierarchy of shepherds, without regard to ethnic origin.
Joe
Joseph Falcomata
Rypniewski)28 Jun 1996 13:04:41 GMT writes:
:>
:>In article <4qv60l$e...@er6.rutgers.edu>, stef...@eden.rutgers.edu (Stefanie Rudnicki) writes:
:>|> I am wondering if anyone has any history on the origin of Wlochy as the Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
:>|>
:>|> -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
:>|>
:>|> -There was an Italian,named Wloch or something similar, who was once in the court of a Polish king. Hence Wlochy.
:>|>
:>|> -Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
:>|>
:>|> Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? I mean Wlochy and Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has got to be a historical context.
:>
:>The origin of the Polish name for Italy, Wlochy, comes from a distant
stefan grass
>In article <4qv60l$e...@er6.rutgers.edu>, stef...@eden.rutgers.edu (Stefanie Rudnicki) writes:
>|> I am wondering if anyone has any history on the origin of Wlochy as the Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
>|>
>|> -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
>|> Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? .
>|>
Wojtek "Ripping Yarn" Rypniewski fantasized:
>The origin of the Polish name for Italy, Wlochy, comes from a distant
>suburb of Warsaw, also called Wlochy. In the olden times it used to be
>a separate settlement. Although not very affluent, it was a quiet, nice
>place, off the beaten track. Unfortunately, the teritorial expansion
>of Warsaw soon threatend its distinct identity and rustic character.
>Incensed by this, some of the inhabitants packed up their belongings and
>emigrated south in search of a better life. They crossed the Alps and
>found themselves in a large, completely uninhabited country in which
>they made their new home. Much later the land became known as Italy.
and to continue the etymology :-))) ...in that settlement
former Roman legionnaires made their living by castrating
horses. Polish word walaszyc means to castrate, so the
people who were skilled in this kind of work were called
Walachs which is also the name for a gelding.
Wloszczyzna is a castrated vegetable.
Hamburg, where such stories are told, was once a suburb of
Macdonaldstadt where people made rissoles from imported
British beef- which is why it now ceased to exist.
>I hope this answers your question.
>Wojtek
>--
It answers the question but I wouldn't believe a word of
it,iStefanie
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>One should never believe any experiment
>until it has been confirmed by theory. - Sir Arthur Eddington
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
One should never believe anything one reads on sciep
Stefan
Grzegorz Ciach
et...@dial.pipex.com (stefan grass) writes:
>Woj...@EMBL-Hamburg.DE (Wojtek Rypniewski) wrote:
>['bout etymology of "Wlochy"]
[...]
>One should never believe anything one reads on sciep
That is certainly true if you have to treat _every_ text literally
(certainly, there are people who cannot otherwise). If you can make
a difference, without thorough instruction, between a factual report,
a provocative falshood and a joke, then you can believe something
on Sciepa from time to time, identify scum from time to time, and
have lotsa fun in the meantime. :-))
Cheers,
___
Grzegorz Ciach, gci...@iihr.uiowa.edu
PO Box 3053, Iowa City, IA 52244; tel:(319)337-4961
Grzegorz Ciach
et...@dial.pipex.com (stefan grass) writes:
[...]
>>>One should never believe anything one reads on sciep
>
>>That is certainly true if you have to treat _every_ text literally
>>(certainly, there are people who cannot otherwise). If you can make
>>a difference, without thorough instruction, between a factual report,
>>a provocative falshood and a joke, then you can believe something
>>on Sciepa from time to time, identify scum from time to time, and
>>have lotsa fun in the meantime. :-))
>
> This sounds like a sound, factual advice. Or it could be a
>provocation to continue the thread (thanks, Stefanie!)
Take your pick, I won't tell you. :-))
And of course my "classification" is only a simplistic outline
of this very complex landscape, or is it?
>Or a tongue in cheek dig at those who literally take everything
>literally.
I didn't mean to be spiteful. Actually I encountered the prevailance
of this kind of attidude only after comming to the States. At the
beginning I liked it as a contrast with our sometimes vague and
sometimes deliberately ambiguous style. Now, I think it is very good
in business talk, but on everyday level it seems to be pretty boring
and even tiring to me. :-(
> And if
>someone asks for a factual report, how should one answer? factually,
>provocatively, with a barefaced lie or with a joke? Does it matter as
>long as we're all having loadsa fun?
If someone really asks for it (be careful, he/she might be joking
and/or try to provoke you!:), and you can do that - give the factual
report. OK?
Best,
stefan grass
gci...@iihr.uiowa.edu (Grzegorz Ciach) wrote:
>et...@dial.pipex.com (stefan grass) writes:
>>Woj...@EMBL-Hamburg.DE (Wojtek Rypniewski) wrote:
>>['bout etymology of "Wlochy"]
>[...]
>>One should never believe anything one reads on sciep
>That is certainly true if you have to treat _every_ text literally
>(certainly, there are people who cannot otherwise). If you can make
>a difference, without thorough instruction, between a factual report,
>a provocative falshood and a joke, then you can believe something
>on Sciepa from time to time, identify scum from time to time, and
>have lotsa fun in the meantime. :-))
>Cheers,
>___
>Grzegorz Ciach, gci...@iihr.uiowa.edu
>PO Box 3053, Iowa City, IA 52244; tel:(319)337-4961
This sounds like a sound, factual advice. Or it could be a
provocation to continue the thread (thanks, Stefanie!)
Or a tongue in cheek dig at those who literally take everything
literally.Methinks that some provocations may contain some truths,
while some falsehoods wouldn't provoke a pit-bull to attack. Jokes are
a tough nut. A smiley helps a bit, but it's been over-used. And if
someone asks for a factual report, how should one answer? factually,
provocatively, with a barefaced lie or with a joke? Does it matter as
long as we're all having loadsa fun?
Provocatively :-))
Stefan Grass
"They don't call it 'A Net Of Milion Lies' for nothing.."
Wojtek Rypniewski
Pulling a leg is a little unkind (and could be painful) and you do tend
to lose some of the audience. But I think, the best jokes are those told
with a straight face, even though some people may find them a bit confusing.
Although I suspect that anyone who got confused by my little story would
be beyond any hope anyway, and no amount of smileys whould do them any
good :-(, I usually do try to observe the netiquette and so the issue
you raised Stefan made me a little concerned,
So, please tell me -- what should I do?
Should I post an apology to all the Etruscans for leaving them out
of my otherwise accurate account of the Appenninian (pre)history?
Considerately,
Wojtek
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wojciech R. Rypniewski tel: +49-40-89902142
EMBL c/o DESY fax: +49-40-89902149
Notkestrasse 85 E-mail: woj...@embl-hamburg.de
D-22603 Hamburg, Germany WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/
Pawel F. Gora
arm...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
>
> In article <4qv60l$e...@er6.rutgers.edu>, stef...@eden.rutgers.edu (Stefanie Rudnicki) writes:
> > I am wondering if anyone has any history on the origin of Wlochy as the Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
> >
> > -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
> >
> >
> > -Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
None of the above.
> There are the Wallachians living in Romanian Wallachia; the nomadic Vlachs
> in the Balkans; the Wallachians/Wolosi who wandered along the Carpathians
> from Romania (possibly originating even farther south) through Ukraine,
> Poland, and Slovakia into Moravia (where there is also a region
> called Wallachia: Valassko); and the Italians/Wlochy.
That's, more or less, what I've also heard. To dot the i's: Poles
came into _regular_ contacts with Italias much later than with the
Wallachians (Wolosi, Vlach, whatever). Now, since the Italians spoke
a language that sounded similar to the language of the Wallachians
(cf. contemporary Romanian vs. Italian), the name of the latter was
'extended' to the former, and later abbreviated by dropping the first
'o'.
Pawel Gora
Institute of Physics, Jagellonian University, Cracow, Poland
http://zfs.if.uj.edu.pl/gora/
go...@if.uj.edu.pl
stefan grass
gci...@iihr.uiowa.edu (Grzegorz Ciach) wrote:
>et...@dial.pipex.com (stefan grass) writes:
>[...]
>>>>One should never believe anything one reads on sciep
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> This sounds like a sound, factual advice. Or it could be a
>>provocation to continue the thread (thanks, Stefanie!)
>Take your pick, I won't tell you. :-))
Fair enough. Being ignored is much worse than getting some response
and one usuall y gets what one deserves.Literally,no complaints
>And of course my "classification" is only a simplistic outline
>of this very complex landscape, or is it?
Yes. I have noticed your tendency towards Hamlet-like self-doubts ;-))
I find it a bit unreal and the suspected presence of a multitude of
lurkers a bit unnerving. Many attractions,too. Tricky more than
complex. Or both.
>>Or a tongue in cheek dig at those who literally take everything
>>literally.
>I didn't mean to be spiteful. Actually I encountered the prevailance
>of this kind of attidude only after comming to the States. At the
>beginning I liked it as a contrast with our sometimes vague and
>sometimes deliberately ambiguous style. Now, I think it is very good
>in business talk, but on everyday level it seems to be pretty boring
>and even tiring to me. :-(
>> And if
>>someone asks for a factual report, how should one answer? factually,
>>provocatively, with a barefaced lie or with a joke? Does it matter as
>>long as we're all having loadsa fun?
>If someone really asks for it (be careful, he/she might be joking
>and/or try to provoke you!:), and you can do that - give the factual
>report. OK?
Alas, factual reports tend to kill all discussion (and threads) :-((
I think I'm going to stick to provocation.
>Best,
>___
>Grzegorz Ciach, gci...@iihr.uiowa.edu
>PO Box 3053, Iowa City, IA 52244; tel:(319)337-4961
Czolem spolem, niebawem
Stefan Grass
stefan grass
Woj...@EMBL-Hamburg.DE (Wojtek Rypniewski) wrote:
>In article <4r6k1v$p...@soap.news.pipex.net>, et...@dial.pipex.com (stefan grass) writes:
>|> gci...@iihr.uiowa.edu (Grzegorz Ciach) wrote:
>|>
>|>
>|> >et...@dial.pipex.com (stefan grass) writes:
>|> >>Woj...@EMBL-Hamburg.DE (Wojtek Rypniewski) wrote:
>|> >>['bout etymology of "Wlochy"]
>|> >[...]
>|> >>One should never believe anything one reads on sciep
>|>
>|> >That is certainly true if you have to treat _every_ text literally
>|> >(certainly, there are people who cannot otherwise).
>|> >, and
>|> >have lotsa fun in the meantime. :-))
>|>
>|>
>|> >Cheers,
>|> >___
>|>
>|> This sounds like a sound, factual advice. Or it could be a
>|> provocation to continue the thread (thanks, Stefanie!)
>|> Or a tongue in cheek dig at those who literally take everything
>|> literally.Methinks that some provocations may contain some truths,
>|> while some falsehoods wouldn't provoke a pit-bull to attack. Jokes are
>|> a tough nut. A smiley helps a bit, but it's been over-used. And if
>|> someone asks for a factual report, how should one answer? factually,
>|> provocatively, with a barefaced lie or with a joke? Does it matter as
>|> long as we're all having loadsa fun?
>|>
>|> Provocatively :-))
>|> Stefan Grass
>|> "They don't call it 'A Net Of Milion Lies' for nothing.."
>|>
>Pulling a leg is a little unkind (and could be painful) and you do tend
>to lose some of the audience. But I think, the best jokes are those told
>with a straight face, even though some people may find them a bit confusing.
True, but how do you show a straight face on the Net? Is there an
emotikon for it? What does it look like?
>Although I suspect that anyone who got confused by my little story would
>be beyond any hope anyway, and no amount of smileys whould do them any
>good :-(, I usually do try to observe the netiquette and so the issue
>you raised Stefan made me a little concerned,
Now you are making me feel ever so guilty! I honestly liked your
little etymological anegdote so much that it tempted me to add my own
sequel which was also accurate. You mustn't feel concerned, Wojtek.
I have lived for a long time in England- the hotbed of practical
jokes, leg-pulls, shaggy dog stories and weird etymologies. Some of it
must have rubbed off on my literal sense of humour.
>So, please tell me -- what should I do?
>Should I post an apology to all the Etruscans for leaving them out
>of my otherwise accurate account of the Appenninian (pre)history?
I am sure that Etruscans would cherish your apology. As you know they
came to Italy from Truskawiec where they used to live making urns for
the dead inhabitants of Wlochy ner Warsaw. :-||
>Considerately,
>Wojtek
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Wojciech R. Rypniewski tel: +49-40-89902142
>EMBL c/o DESY fax: +49-40-89902149
>Notkestrasse 85 E-mail: woj...@embl-hamburg.de
>D-22603 Hamburg, Germany WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>One should never believe any experiment
>until it has been confirmed by theory. - Sir Arthur Eddington
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pacifically, Stefan
Marek Konski
In <4r2u55$m...@the-fly.zip.com.au> jof...@zip.com.au (Joseph Falcomata)
writes:
>In message <4r0l9a$r...@dscomsa.desy.de> - Woj...@EMBL-Hamburg.DE (Wojtek
>Rypniewski)28 Jun 1996 13:04:41 GMT writes:
>:>
(Stefanie Rudnicki) writes:
>:>|> I am wondering if anyone has any history on the origin of Wlochy as the
Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
>:>|>
>:>|> -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
You don't mean Craxi, do you?
>:>|> -There was an Italian,named Wloch or something similar, who was once in
the court of a Polish king. Hence Wlochy.
>:>|>
>:>|> -Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived
from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
Which one, I've never known any hairy vegetables?
>:>|>
>:>|> Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? I mean
Wlochy and >:>|>Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has
got to be a >:>|>historical context.
Ha, ha, ha mi sono divertito tanto! Che ignoranza! Vergognatevi! Alla
scuola fannulloni!
[lots of fake Italian history deleted, some better staff lost due to
general protection failure and I don't like to repeat a job]
If you are so knowledgeable about countries' names, maybe someone would
tell me please why Austria is Rakousko in Czech, maybe it should be
(K)rakousko?
Regards,
Marek Konski
Rockville, MD USA
Mira and Konrad
Panie, nie badz Pan taki madrala i pisz po polsku tyz troche!
Rzygac sie chce od tej waszej angielszczyzny z przedmiescia Harlemu.
Mira and Konrad
Pan Grass, to juz taki "Amerykan", ze po polsku zapomnial. A nazwisko
takie polskie ma!
Wojtek Rypniewski
In article <00002134...@msn.com>, Kon...@msn.com (Mira and Konrad ) writes:
|> Panie, nie badz Pan taki madrala i pisz po polsku tyz troche!
|> Rzygac sie chce od tej waszej angielszczyzny z przedmiescia Harlemu.
To do mnie? :-)
Droga Pani Miro, moze byc po polsku, czemu nie.
A wiec: czy moglaby sie Pani ode mnie laskawie odpieprzyc?
Serdecznie pozdrawiam,
stefan grass
Kon...@msn.com (Mira and Konrad ) wrote:
>Pan Grass, to juz taki "Amerykan", ze po polsku zapomnial. A nazwisko
>takie polskie ma!
Co za dziwaczna para! Staropolska grzecznosc pod zdechlym azorkiem, bo
nawet nie przedstawia sie zanim zaczna pyskowac w cywilizowanym
towarzystwie. Konrad kto? Wallenrod? Korzeniowski (oj, nie! ten
skurczybyk tylko po angielsku pisal -taki byl z niego Amerykan! I
przezwal sie Conradem-pfuj!) Ktore z was pisze te duperele? Mira czy
Konrad? to retoryczne pytanie (zajrzyjcie do slownika)
No, coz - nie kazdy moze miec ladne polskie nazwisko, ale Kopernik,
Kollontaj, Norwid, Chopin etc jakos dali sobie rady wiec ja tez
nienarzekam.
Z powazaniem ale bez szacunku
Stefan Grass
Hilary C. Chan
arm...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
>In article <4qv60l$e...@er6.rutgers.edu>, stef...@eden.rutgers.edu (Stefanie Rudnicki) writes:
>>
>> Does anyone know any more about this interesting name? I mean Wlochy and
>> Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has got to be a historical
>> context.
>>
>
>Slavic languages to refer to people who spoke a Latin-descended language
>(Italian, Romanian, some Balkan dialects that are most closely related
>to Romanian). I'd always thought the name of the people derived from
>the region in southern Romania called (in English) Wallachia, which I
>understand in turn got its name from an early tribe.
>
>
Walah/voloch/walh/ etc. is found in both old Germanic and old Slavic and means "foreigner", i.e. one who speaks a different language=
This is most frequently used to refer to a Latin or Celtic speaker.
The Old High German "Walh" usually refers to a Roman, while the Middle High German adjetive "waelhisch/welhisch" refers to the Latin=
-language world, i.e. Italy, Spain, France. Present day German retains the words "Welschland", "welsch", "welsche" etc. which refe=
r to the same Latin/southern world, e.g. a "welsche" is an Italian or Frenchman, a "welsch schweizer" a French-speaking Swiss. Thes=
e, however, may not be current or polite usage -- even though they are still found in dictionaries printed today.
The original Old English "wealh" means a foreigner, and could refer to a Gaul, a Celt, a Roman, or a Welshman -- i.e. anyone who is =
not an Anglo-Saxon. This later became specialized and evolved into the present day "Welsh" and "Wales".
However, the English word "walnut", derived also from the "wealh" root, shares the same etymological origin as "orzech wloski" -- al=
ong with the walnuts in all Teutonic Languages as well as in Lithuanian. Not in Russian, though -- they call it the "Greek Nut" ins=
tead (but, if you have a good Russian dictionary, you might find a certain "Wallachian nut" listed as an obsolete way to say "walnut=
"!) BTW in Latin languages (including Romanian) the walnut is simply noce/noix/nuz, etc.
The use of "Valakas/Valakiskas" in Lithuanian to refer to Italy/Italian is the closest I've found in modern usage that's comparable =
to Polish "Wloch/Wlochy/Wloski". They do seem to have a variation of Italia/Italya/or whatever as the official way to refer to Ital=
y, though.
There are also the semi nomadic Vlachs (also known as the Kutsovlachs, Vlahs, or Tsintsars) in southern Balkans who call themselves =
Romani/Aromanians/etc. and speak a Latin-like language closely related to Romanian. They are thought to be (along with the Romanian=
s) descendants of Roman/Dacian military colonists -- or in any case Romanized Slavs or Romanized Thracians if not actually Latin in =
origin. I suspect Wallachia, being located at where Dacia used to be, got its name from that same Roman/Dacian connection, too.
Hilary
PS - I have to admit I did find the "wlochaty => wloch / wlos =>wloski" explanation rather appealing. It's the beauty in it's simpl=
icity and intuitiveness, I guess. ;-)
Hilary C. Chan
Oops... I don't know what happened here with this format screw-up.
Sorry. Let me see if I can fix it and try again.
Hilary
Marek Konski
In <4r16u4$h...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> arm...@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>
>In article <4qv60l$e...@er6.rutgers.edu>, stef...@eden.rutgers.edu (Stefanie
Rudnicki) writes:
Polish name for Italy. Some theories I have been told:
>>
>> -Italians were seen to the Poles as hairy, so wlosy became Wlochy.
>>
the court of a Polish king. Hence Wlochy.
>>
>> -Because many fruits and vegetables came from Italy, Wlochy is derived
from an old Polish word that means vegetables.
>>
Italia? I just don't see the connection. There has got to be a historical
context.
>>
>Slavic languages to refer to people who spoke a Latin-descended language
>(Italian, Romanian, some Balkan dialects that are most closely related
>to Romanian). I'd always thought the name of the people derived from
>the region in southern Romania called (in English) Wallachia, which I
>understand in turn got its name from an early tribe.
>
>in the Balkans; the Wallachians/Wolosi who wandered along the Carpathians
>from Romania (possibly originating even farther south) through Ukraine,
>Poland, and Slovakia into Moravia (where there is also a region
Carpathians,
>over the years the term Wallachian came to mean not a member of that
>tribe, but rather a shepherd in general, or a certain rank in the
>hierarchy of shepherds, without regard to ethnic origin.
>
That's all correct except the origin of the word.
I Germanic languages it originally denoted the Celts, (cf. Lat.
"Volcae",
It. "Volci" a Gallic tribe in southern Gaul; English "Welsh", ME
"Welische", OE Welisc, der. of "Walh" Briton, foreigner, cognate with
German "welsch" foreign, Italian) later the romanized people of Celtic
origin (Vlachs and Wallachians) and finally Romance-speaking people
(also Romance-speaking Jews, whence surnames like "Bloch", "Blok" in
Germany, Switzerland, Poland and Russia) and foreigners in general. The
Wallachian settlements were even deep in Ukraine.
Marek Konski
Mira and Konrad
Panie grass, pan sie nazywa Grass, a ja Konrad. Tyz dobre zydowskie
nazwisko, jak kazde inne. Us, us. A co, mam sie nazywac Warszawski,
czy Mendel Gdanski?
Z uszanowaniem
Mira Konrad