Dr. Ostrer's Jewish Hapmap Project

[HHW]

One first goes to Dr. Ostrer's Wiki page. There he is offered an
external link to his Jewish Hapmap Project"


http://pediatrics.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish-hapmap-project

[drahcir]

working links are better. The reader may wonder why HHW is manicly
posting genetic stuff. See, he mistakenly posted a very negative
article about one Eran Elhaik, whose work he has been touting although
all serious geneticists who have studied the issue think he's wrong,
only because Elhaik supports a position supported only by idiots,
namely that Ashkenazim descend from Khazars. Now, instead of admitting
how incredibly stupid an error it was to post this excellent article,
he's trying to cover his tracks by suddenly proclaiming that he
INTENDED to post something contradictory to what he's been screeching
about nonstop for the past month or so, in the name of "fair and
balanced". So to try to flesh out this ridiculous strategy, he's now
going to flood the group with everything mentioning Elhaik, in the
hope that someone will buy this hilarious explanation of his even more
hilarious blunder. H, it was just another of your senior moments, we
understand!

[HHW]

On May 20, 9:48 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >One first goes to Dr. Ostrer's Wiki page. There he is offered an
> >external link to his Jewish Hapmap Project"
>
> >http://pediatrics.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish-hapmap-project
>
> working links are better.

Indeed, but try the link right next to it in the external links
category about Jewish sexual development defects.

[drahcir]

"Indeed" - what is that supposed to mean? That you intended to link to
"page not found"? Do you have the capacity to link to the page you
wish the group to read, or is even that too complex for you?

[HHW]

On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

You know what it means. You don't want to discuss it.



Dumbstruck, eh?

[HHW]

On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

That IS the page I want them to read and think about.

[HHW]

On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

Do you read only Hebrew? You can't escape this forever, Ratner.

[HHW]

It comes at a time when Ostrer and Elhaik are engaged in the ultimate
ideological and scientific debate in the history of Zionism, whether
The Ashkenazi have any right at all to Palestine even under Zionist
doctrine.

[drahcir]

I see - you want everyone to go to a page that doesn't exist. H, it's
obviously time you considered assisted living. They'll be able to show
you all about the internet and other modern things.

[HHW]

On May 20, 4:12 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On May 20, 9:48 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >One first goes to Dr. Ostrer's Wiki page. There he is offered an
> >> >> >external link to his Jewish Hapmap Project"
>
> >> >> >http://pediatrics.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish-hapmap-project
>
> >> >> working links are better.
>
> >> >Indeed, but try the link right next to it in the external links
> >> >category about Jewish sexual development defects.
>
> >> "Indeed" - what is that supposed to mean? That you intended to link to
> >> "page not found"? Do you have the capacity to link to the page you
> >> wish the group to read, or is even that too complex for you?
>
> >That IS the page I want them to read and think about.
>
> I see - you want everyone to go to a page that doesn't exist. H, it's
> obviously time you considered assisted living. They'll be able to show
> you all about the internet and other modern things.

I want them to think about WHY we are no longer given access to those
pages on Jewish genetics. One of the issues is whether there are
Jewish genes much less a Jewish Genome. The answer will have giant
implications politically unless it does not get into the consciousness
of the American people. Don't pretend you don't know what's at stake.
It's why in the last couple of days you've been in your hysterics gear
while I'm relaxing and taking the long view.

You can't tell us why both of those pages featuring Ostrer's projects
linked with Ostrer's Wiki page are no longer available at their
respective sources which one might presume are academic or medical
institutions. Neither can I, yet, but its a salient fact nonetheless.

[drahcir]

H, you are mentally gone. Completely, totally 100% out of your mind.
You have driven yourself crazy with your jew hating, and now are
frenetically jumping around an internet you have only a minuscule
understanding of, grasping at anything in a complete panic that you
"think" might be damaging to Jews. You provided a non-working link and
"think" it means something. And guess what. YOU'RE RIGHT. it does mean
something. it means the page it linked to is no longer up. And do you
know WHY the page is no longer up, you sick fuck? It's because that
page was requesting participants for the project. SINCE THE PROJECT IS
NOW COMPLETE AND HAS BEEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, THEY DON'T NEED
PARTICIPANTS ANYMORE.

Now I realize that in your current frame of "mind", you cannot
comprehend my above paragraph. Ask your maid or the kids down the
block to help patiently explain it to you.

Sheesh, just when I think you can't sink any lower, you surprise me.

For your edification, I will amaze you with my skills and below paste
what the page said. It was taken down in NOVEMBER OF TWO THOUSAND
ELEVEN, you friggin IMBECILE!!!!

Jewish HapMap Project
A Joint Project of Albert Einstein College of Medicine and New York
University School of Medicine
What is the Human HapMap Project?
The Human Genome Project is major Big Science scientific advance of
the early 21st century. It defined the sequence of the entire human
genome and, in turn, the repertoire of human genes.

The coda to the Human Genome Project was the Human HapMap Project that
defined the major variation in DNA sequence in Europeans, East Asians
and West Africans.

Analysis of these variants demonstrated the block-like structure in
which these variants are inherited (referred to as haplotypes and are
the basis of the �HapMap�).

The Jewish HapMap Project is a collaborative endeavor of Albert
Einstein College of Medicine, New York University School of Medicine
and Jewish communities to understand the structure of the genomes in
Jewish populations. It is an outgrowth of the Human HapMap Project.

Jewish populations are remarkable for maintaining continuous genetic,
cultural, and religious traditions over 4000 years, despite residence
all over the world.

Jewish populations are recognized to fall into three groups that
reflect the migrations and long-term patterns of residence over the
past 2500 years�Middle Eastern or Mizrahi Jews, Sephardic Jews and
Ashkenazi Jews lived for over a millennium in Central and Eastern
Europe, prior to migrating to the United States, Israel, Western
Europe and other parts of the world.

Genetic analysis of these populations has demonstrated founder
effects, that is, the contemporary descendants are the successors to a
limited number of men and women who migrated to these locations.

Another manifestation of these founder effects has been the
transmission of genetic mutations that predispose to over 40 genetic
diseases within these populations.

The identification of these founder mutations has fueled discoveries
about the causes of these genetic diseases and, the efficacy of
genetic testing and of specific therapies.

Why should Jews participate in this project?
The development of Jewish HapMaps will substantially contribute to our
understanding of the genetic histories of all three groups and could
improve the efficiency of future genetic discoveries within these
populations.

These discoveries would be particularly advantageous in New York, the
second largest Jewish city in the world and, with its metropolitan
region, the home of 15% of the world�s Jews.

The 2 million Jews in metropolitan New York represent the largest
population isolate within this region.

The Jewish HapMap Project will be a powerful resource for studying the
genetic factors which lead to the variation in responses to
environmental factors, susceptibility to infection, and effectiveness
and adverse responses to drugs and vaccines.

Perhaps most significantly, this research can lead to the development
of new and necessary approaches to prevent, diagnose and treat common
diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, etc.

What is involved with participation?
The analyses will be based on the results of high-density version six
DNA chips from Affymetrix in Santa Clara, California, the pioneer in
this field.

The analyses will be performed for 30 mother-father-offspring trios
from five different Jewish population groups�Ashkenazi, Iranian,
Iraqi, Syrian, and Turkish.

This study design follows that of the Human HapMap Project and is very
powerful and economical. Recruitment will be based on NYU Insitutional
Reiew Board (Ethics Committee) protocol #9216, �Origins and Migrations
of Jewish People.�

In every case, choice of subjects will be based on all four
grandparents having origins from the same Jewish group and informed
consent of the participants.

The data will be analyzed by teams from NYUSOM, AECOM and external
consulting statistical geneticists from Columbia University. Data will
be compared across groups as well as with the groups for which HapMaps
were originally constructed.

How can I participate in the Jewish HapMap Project?
Participation in the Jewish HapMap project s being sought from members
of the Ashkenazi, Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian and Turkish Jewish
communities.

For each participant, all 4 of his/her grandparents must have come
from the same Jewish community.

A prospective participant must recruit 2 other members of his family
to participate as a trio � 2 parents and a child.

Participants must be able to provide knowledge of his/her family
origins, informed consent, and 20 cc (1 1/2 tbs) of blood.

How can I contribute to the Jewish HapMap Project?
Support for the Jewish HapMap Project is not available from government
funding agencies and thus must come from Jewish communities and
philanthropic individuals. No gift is too small.

How will the Jewish HapMap Project benefit people?
The completed project will provide tools for large scale genetic
studies of diseases and physical traits common in Jewish populations.

Future efforts of this Consortium will be directed toward recruiting
large groups of subjects of known phenotype (diseases, physical
attributes) with the goal of performing genetic epidemiological
studies using the Jewish HapMap.

These studies would benefit not only Jewish populations, but also
other groups in which these traits occurred, as similar genetic
mechanisms may be involved.

For more information, to participate or to make a gift, contact
hap...@med.nyu.edu or hap...@aecom.yu.edu.

[drahcir]

Each post you make serves to further confirm your insanity.

[drahcir]

I see - you are insane.

[HHW]

On May 20, 6:16 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT), HHW

Clip stream of insults.

You provided a non-working link and
> "think" it means something. And guess what. YOU'RE RIGHT. it does mean
> something. it means the page it linked to  is no longer up. And do you
> know WHY the page is no longer up, you sick fuck? It's because that
> page was requesting participants for the project. SINCE THE PROJECT IS
> NOW COMPLETE AND HAS BEEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, THEY DON'T NEED
> PARTICIPANTS ANYMORE.

Maybe that's the reason. You certainly don't know.

Clip insults.


Clip insults

Thank you, dear friend. There is a lot of more or less structural
information there. There could have been several motives for taking it
down.

[HHW]

On May 20, 9:14 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On May 20, 9:48 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >One first goes to Dr. Ostrer's Wiki page. There he is offered an
> >> >> >external link to his Jewish Hapmap Project"
>
> >> >> >http://pediatrics.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish-hapmap-project
>
> >> >> working links are better.
>
> >> >Indeed, but try the link right next to it in the external links
> >> >category about Jewish sexual development defects.
>
> >> "Indeed" - what is that supposed to mean? That you intended to link to
> >> "page not found"? Do you have the capacity to link to the page you
> >> wish the group to read, or is even that too complex for you?
>
> >That IS the page I want them to read and think about.
>
> I see - you are insane.

Yeah, whatever, but were you Ostrer right now are you sure that you'd
be comfortable in describing the Jews of New York City to the pubic as
a Jewish genetic isolate knowing that Elhaik's study casts doubt on
it? And you don't know when it was taken down either.

Tell us, can you post the other external source, the one regarding
Jewish sexual development problems? That should be interesting too.

[Zev]

On May 21, 8:57 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 6:16 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT), HHW
> > <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >On May 20, 4:12 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

> >  You provided a non-working link and
> > "think" it means something. And guess what. YOU'RE RIGHT. it does mean
> > something. it means the page it linked to  is no longer up. And do you
> > know WHY the page is no longer up, you sick fuck? It's because that
> > page was requesting participants for the project. SINCE THE PROJECT IS
> > NOW COMPLETE AND HAS BEEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, THEY DON'T NEED
> > PARTICIPANTS ANYMORE.

> Maybe that's the reason. You certainly don't know.

LOL

That's about as dumb as it gets, Hunter.

[Truth and honesty]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 22:57:18 -0700 (PDT), HHW wrote:

> Maybe that's the reason. You certainly don't know.

I can tell you this, that you often post stuff you do not know.

--
Honesty. Decency. Integrity

www.youtube.com/watch?v=33An6HotyuI

Nov 20, 2012
Hamas execution of 6 men, dragged in the streets of Gaza

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:19:36 +1000, Truth and honesty
<Tr...@honest.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 May 2013 22:57:18 -0700 (PDT), HHW wrote:
>
>> Maybe that's the reason. You certainly don't know.
>
>I can tell you this, that you often post stuff you do not know.

Oh, fuck off, Jewish person! <G>

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 14:32:24 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,
psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Tue, 21 May 2013 05:26:37 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The

>Peeler, wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> Maybe that's the reason. You certainly don't know.
>>>
>>>I can tell you this, that you often post stuff you do not know.
>>
>> Oh, fuck off, Jewish person! <G>
>

>Oh, I'm gonna go fuck myself, I'm such an angry sexual Grik cripple! <BG>

You, are? GOOD! <GB>

[drahcir]

I'm going to paste my post here so that readers can be aware that HHW
is in the habit of "clipping" information he doesn't like and hopeing
no one will see that it was not "insults". Here it is in its entirety:

>
>I want them to think about WHY we are no longer given access to those
>pages on Jewish genetics.

H, you are mentally gone. Completely, totally 100% out of your mind.
You have driven yourself crazy with your jew hating, and now are
frenetically jumping around an internet you have only a minuscule
understanding of, grasping at anything in a complete panic that you

"think" might be damaging to Jews. You provided a non-working link and

"think" it means something. And guess what. YOU'RE RIGHT. it does mean
something. it means the page it linked to is no longer up. And do you
know WHY the page is no longer up, you sick fuck? It's because that
page was requesting participants for the project. SINCE THE PROJECT IS
NOW COMPLETE AND HAS BEEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, THEY DON'T NEED
PARTICIPANTS ANYMORE.

Now I realize that in your current frame of "mind", you cannot
comprehend my above paragraph. Ask your maid or the kids down the
block to help patiently explain it to you.

Sheesh, just when I think you can't sink any lower, you surprise me.

For your edification, I will amaze you with my skills and below paste
what the page said. It was taken down in NOVEMBER OF TWO THOUSAND
ELEVEN, you friggin IMBECILE!!!!

Let's review. HHW posted a broken link, and hoped that a reader might
infer a Jewish conspiracy from it. I located the page and proved that
any person with a modicum of reading comprehension can see that it was
taken down because THE PROJECT IT REFERRED TO WAS COMPLETED A YEAR AND
A HALF AGO. Now that this slimeball has yet again been proven an
idiot, he says there could have been several moties for taking the
page down. Of course, the fact that the page's purpose was to attract
volunteers for a long-ago completed project is not reason enough for
conspiracy-theorist HHW.

Let's be honest, asshole. You were hoping to create some buzz about a
Jewish genetic conspiracy, but I nixed it.

[drahcir]

LOL!! The Ostrer project was complete before Elhaik's completely
refuted paper was published.

>
>Tell us, can you post the other external source, the one regarding
>Jewish sexual development problems? That should be interesting too.

There is no "us", H. That's the loneliness of insanity.

[HHW]

Have you decided not to post the other external source, the one
regarding Jewish sexual development problems? Can you tell us why you
posted the first source but have decided not to do so regarding the
second.

[HHW]

You'd like it to be so, but it isn't, Zev. Make a note to remind us to
bo back over the question when enough time has passed.

[HHW]

On 21 mayo, 08:36, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:16:53 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

There surely is, Ratner. Are you going to post it as you did with the
first one or not?

[drahcir]

Nope, nary a soul. H, you hate women and gays and you're into licking
the assholes of folks like Mearsheimer and Elhaik. I suggest you worry
more about your own sexuality than that of Jews.

[drahcir]

Take your meds, H, before you harm yourself or others.

[drahcir]

Your inability to perceive just how ridiculous you've become is quite
entertaining.

[HHW]

Every day there is no response from Ostrer et al their credibility
deteriorates.

[drahcir]

It was quite clear from YOUR post that the experts in the field find
him a "one-off", meaning irrelevant, besides being dead wrong, of
course. Every day that goes by without a reply from Ostrer, however,
may make you, a totally irrelevant, ignorant, stupid, antisemitic oaf,
post more on usenet. That is about the end of it.

[HHW]

On May 25, 8:44 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2013 00:25:28 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 23, 7:10 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 21:43:43 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On 21 mayo, 01:17, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On May 21, 8:57 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On May 20, 6:16 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT), HHW
> >> >> > > <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > >On May 20, 4:12 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> > >  You provided a non-working link and
> >> >> > > "think" it means something. And guess what. YOU'RE RIGHT. it does mean
> >> >> > > something. it means the page it linked to  is no longer up. And do you
> >> >> > > know WHY the page is no longer up, you sick fuck? It's because that
> >> >> > > page was requesting participants for the project. SINCE THE PROJECT IS
> >> >> > > NOW COMPLETE AND HAS BEEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, THEY DON'T NEED
> >> >> > > PARTICIPANTS ANYMORE.

> >> >> > Maybe that's the reason. You certainly don't know.

> >> >> LOL
>
> >> >> That's about as dumb as it gets, Hunter.
>
> >> >You'd like it to be so, but it isn't, Zev. Make a note to remind us to

> >> >go back over the question when enough time has passed.

>
> >> Your inability to perceive just how ridiculous you've become is quite
> >> entertaining.
>
> >Every day there is no response from Ostrer et al their credibility
> >deteriorates.
>
> It was quite clear from YOUR post that the experts in the field find
> him a "one-off", meaning irrelevant, besides being dead wrong, of
> course.

Saying that in conclusory fashion without a thorough scientific
demonstration of its truth is pathetic, meaningless, devious. There is
an obligation to go forward with the evidence. Absent doing so
successfully litigants lose. It's the same in other professions. There
are also matters of honor and reputation at stake. This is a white
nuckle time for quite a few people. Professional people understand
what I'm speaking of. I don't expect you to.

Every day that goes by without a reply from Ostrer, however,
> may make you, a totally irrelevant, ignorant, stupid, antisemitic oaf,
> post more on usenet. That is about the end of it.

Either the Ostrerites, the Rhinelanders, will reply and the replies be
peer reviewed or the scientific/medical community, including Gentiles,
will have to answer FOR them. Dr. Elhaik is an historic figure at the
age of 32. What he has accomplished is analogous to a volcanic
eruption or an earthquake. His work now stands independent of his
person. It can't be dealt with by hiding or spewing filth such as in
your last paragraph. The professions need to know how to go forward
without politics or other conflicts of interest which are the deadly
enemies of science. They will have no choice but to solve it
scientifically and medically. They are probably also going to have to
review their rules as to how keep conflict of interest of this sort
out of the professions. By no means is this a small matter.

[dsharavi]

Unless Hunter Watson does it.

> There is an obligation to go forward with the evidence.

Not for Hunter Watson there isn't.

> Absent doing so successfully litigants lose.

So, you're saying your clients lost and sued you for malpractice
because of your inability to go forward with evidence? You never
manufactured evidence, as you do here?

>There are also matters of honor and reputation at stake.

Hunter usually crops up with "honor" and "ethics" and crap like that.
Dishonorable and unethical people usually do.

> Professional people understand what I'm speaking of.

Professional whores, too, no doubt.

[HHW]

On May 26, 5:37 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 1:41 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Clip

> > > .......experts in the field find

> > > him a "one-off", meaning irrelevant, besides being dead wrong, of
> > > course.

> > Saying that in conclusory fashion without a thorough scientific
> > demonstration of its truth is pathetic, meaningless, devious.
>
> Unless Hunter Watson does it.

Elhaik's study arrives at its conclusions 'through scientific
demonstration". Think now, Deborah:

Elhaik: "My findings revealed a unique Caucasus signature that is
widely common in Caucasus populations but very rare in all other
populations, except for European Jews."

Read that sentence again -- and again. The conclusion, as a matter of
logic, is not rocket science. There is a "unique" Caucasus "signature"
common nowhere else except in European Jews. Now read my sentence
again. Found nowhere else except in European Jews, the Ashkenazi, 90%
of present day Jewry.

> > There is an obligation to go forward with the evidence.

> Not for Hunter Watson there isn't.

Look again, a third time, at Elhaik's sentence. Everyone look at it
very carefully!

> > Absent going forward with the evidence successfully, litigants lose.

Clip

> >There are also matters of honor and reputation at stake.

I'll add to that. It's the honor and reputation of the scientists
involved that I speak of. And the reason I mention it is that these no
doubt brilliant and famous men have a huge professional and
reputational stake in the outcome of this matter. That includes Elhaik
of course, but his cards are on the table. I haven't any doubt that
this matter is being watched by scientists and a lot of savy political
people all over the world.

.
> Hunter usually crops up with "honor" and "ethics" and crap like that.

Honor and ethics is crap? And you deny that antisemitism is a
universal phenomenon?

> Dishonorable and unethical people usually do.

Actionable, Deborah. You extend the statute of limitations again and
revive all previous causes of action against you. Into the archive and
the calendar.

> > Professional people understand what I'm speaking of.

Clip

[dsharavi]

On May 26, 4:49 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Clip

> > > > .......experts in the field find
> > > > him a "one-off", meaning irrelevant, besides being dead wrong, of
> > > > course.

> > On May 25, 1:41 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Saying that in conclusory fashion without a thorough scientific
> > > demonstration of its truth is pathetic, meaningless, devious.

> On May 26, 5:37 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Unless Hunter Watson does it.

> Elhaik's study arrives at its conclusions 'through scientific
> demonstration". Think now, Deborah:
> Elhaik: "My findings revealed a unique Caucasus signature that is
> widely common in Caucasus populations but very rare in all other
> populations, except for European Jews."

Aristotle's study arrived at its conclusion 'through scientific
demonstration,' and what Aristotle's findings revealed was
that life can spontaneously come into being from inanimate
matter when exposed to sunlight.

Darwin and Tesla's studies arrived at the conclusion 'through
scientific
demonstration' that the Earth was forever increasing in volume,
which
explained underwater mountain ranges and continental drift. Tesla
compared the process to that of the expansion of a dying star.

Percival Lowell's studies arrived at the conclusion 'through
scientific
demonstration' that the canals of Mars were a sophisticated
irrigation
system developed by an unknown intelligent species

The studies of Aristotle, Aquinas, Locke, and Freud insisted that
mental
content is the result of experience and education, and that no human
is
born with any built-in personality traits or proclivities.

Einstein's studies arrived at the conclusion 'through scientific
demonstration' that the size of the universe is an unchanging
constant, that it was always been the size it was, always would
be; that the volume of the universe was effectively fixed, and that
the whole construct operated as a closed system; he even
calculated it into his theory of general relativity

But this more your speed, Hunter. Think now:
"I'm no anti-Semite. I was merely politically opposed to Jews because
they were stealing the breath of life from us." Adolf Eichmann, 1961.

A goblin after your own heart, Hunter.

> > > There is an obligation to go forward with the evidence.

> > Not for Hunter Watson there isn't.

> Look again, a third time, at Elhaik's sentence.

Why? No matter how many times you look at it, bullshit is bullshit.
Not that YOU would know, of course.

> > > Absent going forward with the evidence successfully, litigants lose.
>
> Clip

Is that why you lost cases for your clients, because you were inept at
"going forward with the evidence" -- and as inept at manufacturing it
then as you are now?

> > >There are also matters of honor and reputation at stake.

> I'll add to that. It's the honor and reputation

> > Hunter usually crops up with "honor" and "ethics" and crap like that.
>
> Honor and ethics is crap? And you deny that antisemitism is a
> universal phenomenon?

Coming from you, Hunter, "honor and ethics" are so much crap. They
usually are to dishonorable and unethical people such as yourself.

> > Dishonorable and unethical people usually do.

> Actionable, Deborah.

Try it, bungling shyster.

[HHW]

On May 26, 7:50 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 4:49 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Try this unemployed former legal secretary:

http://khazardnaproject.wordpress.com/

[Sam Houston]

> "dsharavi" wrote in message
> news:76ccbfb1-3e37-4dc4...@ow4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

> > On May 26, 4:49 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Actionable, Deborah.

> Try it, bungling shyster.

I'm on Deb's side. The earth can swallow up Hunter.

[drahcir]

On Sun, 26 May 2013 16:49:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 26, 5:37�pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 25, 1:41�pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Clip
>
>> > > .......experts in the field find
>> > > him a "one-off", meaning irrelevant, besides being dead wrong, of
>> > > course.
>
>> > Saying that in conclusory fashion without a thorough scientific
>> > demonstration of its truth is pathetic, meaningless, devious.
>>
>> Unless Hunter Watson does it.
>
>Elhaik's study arrives at its conclusions 'through scientific
>demonstration". Think now, Deborah:
>
>Elhaik: "My findings revealed a unique Caucasus signature that is
>widely common in Caucasus populations but very rare in all other
>populations, except for European Jews."

All experts in the field for the last 15 years contradict his
findings, according to the paper YOU posted. he is considered
irrelevant and a "one-off" by all other experts in the field.They are
the experts, not me, and certianly not an ignoramus like you. You
don't like it because elhaik suits your political ends, but that is
just too bad. End of story.

[dsharavi]

> > On May 26, 4:49 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Try this unemployed former legal secretary:

Why would I want to try an unemployed former legal secretary? That's
YOUR game, isn't it? Or, rather, it WAS your game, wasn't it?

[Michael Ejercito]

We are on the side of truth and morality.


Michael

[The Peeler]

On Sun, 26 May 2013 15:37:49 -0700 (PDT), dsharavi <dsh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Do, they Deborag? Do, you? <G>

[The Peeler]

Yes, we are Michael. Even though we're, not white! <GB>

[HHW]

Of course you are, Nefesh. But I'm a bone in the throat.

[Tell it like it is.]

On May 20, 6:16 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:38:38 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 20, 4:12 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On May 20, 9:48 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT), HHW

>
> >> >> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >One first goes to Dr. Ostrer's Wiki page. There he is offered an
> >> >> >> >external link to his Jewish Hapmap Project"
>
> >> >> >> >http://pediatrics.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish-hapmap-project
>
> >> >> >> working links are better.
>
> >> >> >Indeed, but try the link right next to it in the external links
> >> >> >category about Jewish sexual development defects.
>
> >> >> "Indeed" - what is that supposed to mean? That you intended to link to
> >> >> "page not found"? Do you have the capacity to link to the page you
> >> >> wish the group to read, or is even that too complex for you?
>
> >> >That IS the page I want them to read and think about.
>

> >> I see - you want everyone to go to a page that doesn't exist. H, it's
> >> obviously time you considered assisted living. They'll be able to show
> >> you all about the internet and other modern things.
>
> >I want them to think about WHY we are no longer given access to those
> >pages on Jewish genetics.
>

> H, you are mentally  gone. Completely, totally 100% out of your mind.
> You have driven yourself crazy with your jew hating, and now are
> frenetically jumping around an internet you have only a minuscule
> understanding of, grasping at anything in a complete panic that you

> "think" might be damaging to Jews. You provided a non-working link and

> "think" it means something. And guess what. YOU'RE RIGHT. it does mean
> something. it means the page it linked to  is no longer up. And do you
> know WHY the page is no longer up, you sick fuck? It's because that
> page was requesting participants for the project. SINCE THE PROJECT IS
> NOW COMPLETE AND HAS BEEN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, THEY DON'T NEED
> PARTICIPANTS ANYMORE.
>

> One of the issues is whether there are
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Jewish genes much less a Jewish Genome. The answer will have giant
> >implications politically unless it does not get into the consciousness
> >of the American people. Don't pretend you don't know what's at stake.
> >It's why in the last couple of days you've been in your hysterics gear
> >while I'm relaxing and taking the long view.
>
> >You can't tell us why both of those pages featuring Ostrer's projects
> >linked with Ostrer's Wiki page are no longer available at their
> >respective sources which one might presume are academic or medical
> >institutions. Neither can I, yet, but its a salient fact nonetheless.

[Tell it like it is.]

[HHW]

On May 26, 8:40 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 26, 4:49 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Try this, unemployed former legal secretary:

>
> Why would I want to try an unemployed former legal secretary? That's
> YOUR game, isn't it? Or, rather, it WAS your game, wasn't it?

I've added the necessary comma. You may stop hyperventillating any
time you choose.

[HHW]

On May 26, 8:29 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

>
> All experts in the field for the last 15 years contradict his
> findings, according to the paper YOU posted. he is considered
> irrelevant and a "one-off" by all other experts in the field.They are
> the experts, not me, and certianly not an ignoramus like you. You
> don't like it because elhaik suits your political ends, but that is
> just too bad. End of story.

None of them has contradicted him. Ostrer won't speak to reporters.
He's keeping his own data under wraps so that it can't be evaluated by
Elhaik. When their works were written he was still in the IDF, in any
event had not even finished his education.

Since his paper was published by Oxford University Press his opponents
have all gone to ground

[dusty]

On May 21, 12:12 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:06:02 -0700 (PDT), HHW

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 20, 3:05 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On May 20, 9:48 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >One first goes to Dr. Ostrer's Wiki page. There he is offered an
> >> >> >external link to his Jewish Hapmap Project"
>
> >> >> >http://pediatrics.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish-hapmap-project
>
> >> >> working links are better.
>
> >> >Indeed, but try the link right next to it in the external links
> >> >category about Jewish sexual development defects.
>
> >> "Indeed" - what is that supposed to mean? That you intended to link to
> >> "page not found"? Do you have the capacity to link to the page you
> >> wish the group to read, or is even that too complex for you?
>

> >Do you read only Hebrew? You can't escape this forever, Ratner.
>
> Each post you make serves to further confirm your insanity.

[The Peeler]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 12:40:49 +0200, The Peeler
<finish...@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 May 2013 21:02:28 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The

>Peeler, wrote:
>
>>>> I'm on Deb's side. The earth can swallow up Hunter.
>>> We are on the side of truth and morality.
>>
>> Yes, we are Michael. Even though we're, not white! <GB>
>

>And how could I be white as the Grik pariah that I am, Radavich!
><BG>

Indeed, psycho how could you? <GB>

[The Peeler]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 12:41:02 +0200, The Peeler
<finish...@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 May 2013 20:52:03 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The
>Peeler, wrote:
>

>>>Hunter usually crops up with "honor" and "ethics" and crap like that.
>>>Dishonorable and unethical people usually do.
>>
>> Do, they Deborag? Do, you? <G>
>

>They usually don't. She does. Any other questions I can answer for
>you, The Rectum? <BG>

No, further questions asshole! <GB>

[drahcir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 00:15:48 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 26, 8:29 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> All experts in the field for the last 15 years contradict his
>> findings, according to the paper YOU posted. he is considered
>> irrelevant and a "one-off" by all other experts in the field.They are
>> the experts, not me, and certianly not an ignoramus like you. You
>> don't like it because elhaik suits your political ends, but that is
>> just too bad. End of story.
>
>None of them has contradicted him.

Prove it. And even if you can prove it, which of course you cannot, it
proves nothing. They haven't contacted you either.

Ostrer won't speak to reporters.

And you see sometihng sinister, just like you did in his dead link.
You're just a fool in both circumstances and Ostrer has work to do.
Simple.

>He's keeping his own data under wraps so that it can't be evaluated by
>Elhaik. When their works were written he was still in the IDF, in any
>event had not even finished his education.
>
>Since his paper was published by Oxford University Press his opponents
>have all gone to ground

Elhaik will fade away just as all charlatans do.

[HHW]

On May 27, 8:21 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 00:15:48 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 26, 8:29 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>
> >> All experts in the field for the last 15 years contradict his
> >> findings, according to the paper YOU posted. he is considered
> >> irrelevant and a "one-off" by all other experts in the field.They are
> >> the experts, not me, and certianly not an ignoramus like you. You
> >> don't like it because elhaik suits your political ends, but that is
> >> just too bad. End of story.
>
> >None of them has contradicted him.
>
> Prove it. And even if you can prove it, which of course you cannot, it
> proves nothing. They haven't contacted you either.

So now the hypocrite Zionist demands that I prove a negative.

> Ostrer won't speak to reporters.
>
> And you see sometihng sinister, just like you did in his dead link.

There were two dead links and it's called hiding.

> You're just a fool in both circumstances and Ostrer has work to do.

As opposed to you and sharavi.

> Simple.
>
> >He's keeping his own data under wraps so that it can't be evaluated by
> >Elhaik. When their works were written he was still in the IDF, in any
> >event had not even finished his education.
>
> >Since his paper was published by Oxford University Press his opponents
> >have all gone to ground
>
> Elhaik will fade away just as all charlatans do.

Elhaik's work stands independent of his person. It will ne faver fade
away. Of course they can choose not to face it, but what then becomes
of the Jewish Hapmap project? How is the confusion in the matter of
combining genetics and medicine in the struggle against genetic
diseases to be resolved. No, no, this has to be put to rest somehow.
And what really must be put to rest is the cynical presence of
politics in science. That's inutterably vile.

[drahcir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 27, 8:21 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2013 00:15:48 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>>
>> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On May 26, 8:29 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> All experts in the field for the last 15 years contradict his
>> >> findings, according to the paper YOU posted. he is considered
>> >> irrelevant and a "one-off" by all other experts in the field.They are
>> >> the experts, not me, and certianly not an ignoramus like you. You
>> >> don't like it because elhaik suits your political ends, but that is
>> >> just too bad. End of story.
>>
>> >None of them has contradicted him.
>>
>> Prove it. And even if you can prove it, which of course you cannot, it
>> proves nothing. They haven't contacted you either.
>
>So now the hypocrite Zionist demands that I prove a negative.

H, if your intent was to demonstrate your stone stupidity, it's really
not necessary - everyone here knows, I am quite sure. Certain
negatives are impossble to prove, for example, that God does not
exist. You can't prove tne non-existence of something in general. But
if an amputee says "I have no right arm", he can prove it by taking
off his shirt, so yes, you can prove a negative, moron. If you wanted
to prove your asertion, it would be easy. Show it in a cite. that cite
could be Elhaik's word, which of course, most here would not accept.
But at least that would let you off the hook. At present, it's evident
you just made it up.

>
>> Ostrer won't speak to reporters.
>>
>> And you see sometihng sinister, just like you did in his dead link.
>
>There were two dead links and it's called hiding.

There was ONE DEAD LINK that you posted. I don't think it would
surprsei anyone but a moron like you if there were dead links from the
dead page.

>
>> You're just a fool in both circumstances and Ostrer has work to do.
>
>As opposed to you and sharavi.

Don't worry about my work, H.

>
>> Simple.
>>
>> >He's keeping his own data under wraps so that it can't be evaluated by
>> >Elhaik. When their works were written he was still in the IDF, in any
>> >event had not even finished his education.
>>
>> >Since his paper was published by Oxford University Press his opponents
>> >have all gone to ground
>>
>> Elhaik will fade away just as all charlatans do.
>
>Elhaik's work stands independent of his person.

"His person" is of no interest independent of his work.

It will ne faver fade
>away.

??? ne faver? is that the booze talking?

Of course they can choose not to face it, but what then becomes
>of the Jewish Hapmap project?

I presume it continues to gain "faver" amongst those who matter.

How is the confusion in the matter of
>combining genetics and medicine in the struggle against genetic
>diseases to be resolved. No, no,

LOL!! Don't you mean "nay, nay"?

this has to be put to rest somehow.
>And what really must be put to rest is the cynical presence of
>politics in science. That's inutterably vile.

I have repeatedly suggested you write to Ostrer, in fact, better would
be to call him, and voice your concerns, but you refuse to do it,
preferring to flaccidly post your nonsense day after day to this
group. H, grow a pair and CALL OSTRER.

[HHW]

On May 27, 1:09 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW

Yes, it's probably true, and a relief for him too, that he's a very
busy man. So while everyone is holding his breath on the Zionist
genetics fiasco, let's take a look at the projected impact of war with
Iran as demanded by Israel and it't s Americn lobby:

http://www.fas.org/_docs/2012_Iran_and_Global_Economy.pdf

[drahcir]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>On May 27, 1:09 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>Yes, it's probably true, and a relief for him too, that he's a very
>busy man. So while everyone is holding his breath on the Zionist
>genetics fiasco,

There is no fiasco and no one that I know of is holding his breath.
Elhaik is a "one-off" and contradicts ALL of the research of the past
15 years. Why would anyone who didn't have a separate agenda put any
credence in him?

let's take a look at the projected impact of war with
>Iran as demanded by Israel and it't s Americn lobby:

nah, let's not.
>
>http://www.fas.org/_docs/2012_Iran_and_Global_Economy.pdf
>

[dsharavi]

You must mean you WERE a boner in a throat. But that must have been
aeons ago.

[dsharavi]

On May 27, 12:15 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 8:29 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > All experts in the field for the last 15 years contradict his
> > findings, according to the paper YOU posted. he is considered
> > irrelevant and a "one-off" by all other experts in the field.They are
> > the experts, not me, and certianly not an ignoramus like you. You
> > don't like it because elhaik suits your political ends, but that is
> > just too bad. End of story.
>
> None of them has contradicted him.

Sure they have. Elhaik's conclusions were bullshit, and only you
antisemites take him seriously.

>
> Since his paper was published by Oxford University Press

Along with such other sterling Oxford U publications such as Winnie
the Witch, The Demon Headmaster, and Dinosaur Cove--such educational
fare!

[dsharavi]

On May 27, 3:46 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On May 27, 1:09 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >Yes, it's probably true, and a relief for him too, that he's a very
> >busy man. So while everyone is holding his breath on the Zionist
> >genetics fiasco,
>
> There is no fiasco and no one that I know of is holding his breath.

I'm not even holding my breath for the Red Wedding, and that's far
more important than any bee ess Hunter is wanking off about.

[מין הארץ יהודי ישראלי עברית אמריקאי‎]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZNu4uWSeBw

During cunnilingus it is hard to eat the bones.

[Truth and honesty]

Of course the real issue to HHW is that such an attack would weaken her
precious Assad in Syria power.


--
Honesty. Decency. Integrity

www.youtube.com/watch?v=33An6HotyuI

Nov 20, 2012
Hamas execution of 6 men, dragged in the streets of Gaza

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:52:56 +1000, Truth and honesty
<Tr...@honest.com> wrote:

>Of course the real issue to HHW is that such an attack would weaken her
>precious Assad in Syria power.

Why, is that a, bad thing lying Jewish person? <G>

[Truth and honesty]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 06:10:17 -0700, The Peeler wrote:

> On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:52:56 +1000, Truth and honesty
> <Tr...@honest.com> wrote:
>
>>Of course the real issue to HHW is that such an attack would weaken her
>>precious Assad in Syria power.
>
> Why, is that a, bad thing

When di I say it was bad? You should learn to read! What I stated was that
HHW real motive is not something good for the US or even democracy as he
pretends.


> lying Jewish person? <G>

Get real, if anyone could be described as a liar it is HHW.

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 23:34:59 +1000, Truth and honesty

<Tr...@honest.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 28 May 2013 06:10:17 -0700, The Peeler wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:52:56 +1000, Truth and honesty
>> <Tr...@honest.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Of course the real issue to HHW is that such an attack would weaken her
>>>precious Assad in Syria power.
>>
>> Why, is that a, bad thing
>
>When di I say it was bad? You should learn to read! What I stated was that
>HHW real motive is not something good for the US or even democracy as he
>pretends.

Learn, to write properly then Jewish person!

>
>> lying Jewish person? <G>
>
>Get real, if anyone could be described as a liar it is HHW.

No Jewish person, it is YOU! <B>

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 15:40:51 +0200, The Peeler
<finish...@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 28 May 2013 06:10:17 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The

>Peeler, wrote:
>
>
>>>Of course the real issue to HHW is that such an attack would weaken her
>>>precious Assad in Syria power.
>>
>> Why, is that a, bad thing lying Jewish person? <G>
>

>Isn't it, The Rectum? Explain! <BG>

Is, it Grik idiot? YOU explain! <GB>

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 16:27:37 +0200, The Peeler
<finish...@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:


>> Learn, to write properly then Jewish person!
>

>He, SHOULD Learn to write properly then, the retarded Jewish person!

He, SHOULD! <G>

>>>> lying Jewish person? <G>
>>>
>>>Get real, if anyone could be described as a liar it is HHW.
>>

>> No Jewish person, it is you! <B>
>
>That's right, psychopathic person! <BG>

Innit, idiotic Grik person! <GB>

[HHW]

On May 27, 5:46 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On May 27, 1:09 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> >Yes, it's probably true, and a relief for him too, that he's a very
> >busy man. So while everyone is holding his breath on the Zionist
> >genetics fiasco,
>
> There is no fiasco and no one that I know of is holding his breath.
> Elhaik is a "one-off" and contradicts ALL of the research of the past
> 15 years.

I gather that he contradicts the the zio-sci of the last forty years.

Why would anyone who didn't have a separate agenda put any
> credence in him?

But you do have a separate agenda.

>  let's take a look at the projected impact of war with Iran as demanded by Israel and it's Americn lobby:

> nah, let's not

http://www.fas.org/_docs/2012_Iran_and_Global_Economy.pdf

No???? Not interested in those trillions and trillions of Gentile
money going down the rat hole at the command of Benjamin Netanyahu and
the Israel Lobby? Pobrecito Missy. Why on earth not? Could it be that
keeping the last scrap of Palestine is more important to you than the
prospect of peace and the viability of the world economy?

[HHW]

Filthy woman, who was responsible for raising you?

[HHW]

Now you must attack Oxford University. Will there be any end to your
desperation?

[מין הארץ יהודי ישראלי עברית אמריקאי‎]

You think Deb is desperate. That is like saying Cote De Pablo doesn't
know how to fight. Speaking of Cote De Pablo, she is sure makes a TOV
Israeli for a Catholic girl.

[dsharavi]

Why on earth would you think that mention of Oxford U Press's
publication of Winnie the Witch (which comes with Teacher's Resource
Pack), The Demon Headmaster (featuring the Hunter family), and
Dinosaur Cove ("serious Jurassic fun...packed full of cool Jurassic
facts") ,constitute some sort of attack on that publishing house?
Really, Hunter, the stupidity of some of your posts lead one to
believe you never journeyed far beyond Gropecunte Lane.

[dsharavi]

On May 28, 7:51 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 5:46 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> > <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >On May 27, 1:09 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
> > >Yes, it's probably true, and a relief for him too, that he's a very
> > >busy man. So while everyone is holding his breath on the Zionist
> > >genetics fiasco,
>
> > There is no fiasco and no one that I know of is holding his breath.
> > Elhaik is a "one-off" and contradicts ALL of the research of the past
> > 15 years.
>
> I gather that he contradicts the the zio-sci of the last forty years.

What you "gather" is, by and large, coprolitic factoids.

> No????  Not interested in those trillions and trillions of Gentile
> money going down the rat hole at the command of Benjamin Netanyahu and
> the Israel Lobby? Pobrecito Missy.

Do post some findings, won't you, Herr mierda-para-cerbros, on these
trillions and trillions of "Gentile dollars". One may assume you
derive these numbers from the same realms as the millions and millions
of readers you claim are pouring over your every posting.

You do know how much a trillion is, don't you, Herr pendejo?

[dsharavi]

Ever read Chaucer, Herr mierda-para-cerebros? A roll (or two) of
parliament, which would inform you of the gentle and sweetly
reasonable discourse which obtained between a king and his lords?
Would you care for an example, such that which obtained between Ed1
and the earl of Norfolk?

BTW, who was responsible for raising YOU? Mom-and-Pop grocery store
thieves?

[dsharavi]

On May 28, 8:49 pm, מין הארץ יהודי ישראלי עברית אמריקאי

I would ask who's Cote de Pablo, but I found her. Wow. A Chilean
playing an Israeli? The producers couldn't find an Israeli as cute as
Natalie Portman?

[Truth and honesty]

>>> lying Jewish person? <G>
>>
>>Get real, if anyone could be described as a liar it is HHW.
>
> No Jewish person, it is YOU! <B>

I do not lie, I am Jewish

[drahcir]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:51:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 27, 5:46 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>>
>> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On May 27, 1:09 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>>
>> >Yes, it's probably true, and a relief for him too, that he's a very
>> >busy man. So while everyone is holding his breath on the Zionist
>> >genetics fiasco,
>>
>> There is no fiasco and no one that I know of is holding his breath.
>> Elhaik is a "one-off" and contradicts ALL of the research of the past
>> 15 years.
>
>I gather that he contradicts the the zio-sci of the last forty years.

There's no need for you to "gather", H. You can simply read about it
in the article you were so kind to post here.

>
>Why would anyone who didn't have a separate agenda put any
>> credence in him?
>
>But you do have a separate agenda.

Apparently you're too stupid to understand that I, who support the
vast majority, DO NOT NEED A SEPARATE AGENDA. Only those who support
firnge personalities like Elhaik need a separate agenda, unless they
are sufficiently fluent in his discipline, which, of course, lets you
out.

>>  let's take a look at the projected impact of war with Iran as demanded by Israel and it's Americn lobby:
>
>> nah, let's not
>
>http://www.fas.org/_docs/2012_Iran_and_Global_Economy.pdf
>
>No???? Not interested in those trillions and trillions of Gentile
>money going down the rat hole

Tell me, H, is it just a coincidence that you use this imagery just a
day or two after I address you with it? Funny how the 80-year-old
"brain" operates...

No interest in the below. I don't believe the US has any plans to
attack Iran, and discussing possibiliities with a fantasy-crazed
lunatic like you is not my idea of time well spent.

[The Peeler]

You, lie BECAUSE you are a Jewish person!
<tsk>

[The Peeler]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 15:50:41 +0200, The Peeler
<finish...@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 29 May 2013 05:37:50 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The
>Peeler, wrote:
>
>

>>>I do not lie, I am Jewish
>>
>> You, lie BECAUSE you are a Jewish person!
>> <tsk>
>

>I am the sort of pathological notorious liar that lies the very moment he
>accuses others of lying!

You, ARE! And a, Grik anus! <G>

[dsharavi]

On May 29, 5:06 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:51:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hunter has to have something to fill up his spare time while he's
sobering up before his next bout with the tequila bottle.

[HHW]

On May 29, 7:06 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2013 19:51:29 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Mine is 72 and 2/3 years of age. Yours is nearing 70. How's it doing?

> No interest in the below. I don't believe the US has any plans to
> attack Iran,

I don't believe *Israel* has any plans to attack Iran but would very
much like us to do it for her. If we should be pushed into doing it,
we would *have* to do it alone. Allying ourselves with the oppressive,
colonial Jewish State in an attack on *another* Muslim counry is the
worst kiss of death in the region and even globally which one can
imagine. We have interests and obligations on a global scale. Should
we do it with or without Israel we'll pay all the various costs by
ourselves too. Israel will not ante-up a single slim dime. She's the
certified victim state. Everything must flow only in her direction.
That's the way it's been done now for decades. Israel is our client
state but she's no supplicant. Her arrogance about it is overwhelming.

and discussing possibiliities with a fantasy-crazed
> lunatic like you is not my idea of time well spent.

Translation: You'll get yourself in trouble much too quickly.

>  at the command of Benjamin Netanyahu and

> >the Israel Lobby? Pobrecito Missy. Why on earth not? Could it be that
> >keeping the last scrap of Palestine is more important to you than the
> >prospect of peace and the viability of the world economy?

Apparently it is.

[HHW]

Your fear of me is amusing. I'm so powerful that I can even push all
of your around simultaneously while "sobering up".

[drahcir]

I meant mentally.

Yours is nearing 70.

Sheesh, any idiot could find my age on the web. Why don't you find one
to help you?

How's it doing?

How's what doing?

>
>> No interest in the below. I don't believe the US has any plans to
>> attack Iran,
>
>I don't believe *Israel* has any plans to attack Iran but would very
>much like us to do it for her.

Well, what we have here is two beliefs. Fabulous. But of course, I
state my belief in one sentence. It takes you a paragraph, because for
some reason you feel it necessary to explain the fine points of your
fantasy. It really sickens me to look at such pompous ravings,
pretending to be facts.

If we should be pushed into doing it,
>we would *have* to do it alone. Allying ourselves with the oppressive,
>colonial Jewish State in an attack on *another* Muslim counry is the
>worst kiss of death in the region and even globally which one can
>imagine. We have interests and obligations on a global scale. Should
>we do it with or without Israel we'll pay all the various costs by
>ourselves too. Israel will not ante-up a single slim dime. She's the
>certified victim state. Everything must flow only in her direction.
>That's the way it's been done now for decades. Israel is our client
>state but she's no supplicant. Her arrogance about it is overwhelming.
>
>
> and discussing possibiliities with a fantasy-crazed
>> lunatic like you is not my idea of time well spent.
>
>Translation: You'll get yourself in trouble much too quickly.

As I said, a fantasy-crazed lunatic.

>
>>  at the command of Benjamin Netanyahu and
>
>> >the Israel Lobby? Pobrecito Missy. Why on earth not? Could it be that
>> >keeping the last scrap of Palestine is more important to you than the
>> >prospect of peace and the viability of the world economy?
>
>Apparently it is.

Um, you're publicly talking to yourself yet again.

[dsharavi]

The only "fear" of you is that of laughing oneself sick at you. That
obtains here, in Laurium, and up and down el Calle del Arroyo, where
your "power" couldn't lead you to a pot to piss in. Sober up, payaso
viejo.

[HHW]

------------------------------------

Your effective opponents are not in the least frivolous:

The Mess in the Middle East

Chas Freeman October 27, 2011 Arab, Cyber, Economics, Iran, Islam,
Israel, Middle East and South Asia, Palestine, Speeches, U.S. Foreign
Policy, x
The Mess in the Middle East

Remarks to the 20th Annual Arab-U.S. Policymakers Conference
National Council on U.S. -Arab Relations

Ambassador Chas W. Freeman, Jr. (USFS, Ret.)
27 October 2011, Washington, D.C.

When John Duke Anthony asked me to kick off this two-day meeting by
talking about recent events and what they might mean for US-Arab
relations and U.S. policy, I was greatly honored. I was also reminded
of the words of a famous expert on the Middle East who, many years
ago, was asked to describe U.S. policy there. He replied, “We don’t
have a policy in the Middle East; but that’s just as well because, if
we did, it would be the wrong one.”

Recent events suggest that this was a major and memorable insight.
The more that “change we can believe in” unfolds in the Middle East,
the more things stay the same or retrogress. The more policy we have,
the more perverse the results it seems to produce for our country.

Over the year since we last met here in this hall, there have been
momentous events in West Asia and North Africa. Some Arab regimes
have fallen to popular uprisings. Others appear to be at risk of
doing so. Throughout the broad expanse of the Arab world incumbent
governments of all kinds must now be much more deferential than before
to the will of their people on both domestic and foreign affairs.
This is good news for those who favor more accountable government, as
I’m sure everyone here does – at least for foreigners. Americans
concerned with the capacity of the United States to shape events in
the Middle East should, however, hold the elation. Self-determination
is, by definition, a rejection of subservience. This means, among
other things, that Arab rulers are considerably less inclined to do
America’s bidding than in the past. They are starting to do things
they see as in their interests even when these things are not in ours.

This is especially the case with regard to the Israel-Palestine issue,
which remains central to our relations with the region. Given our
unbreakable bonds with Israel, it is not at all helpful that that
country has now – as some of us feared it might – alienated those few
of its neighbors with which it once enjoyed normal ties. American
policies have long put sustaining Israel’s military dominance of the
region ahead of encouraging it to make peace with Palestinians and
other Arabs. Shielded militarily from the need to deal respectfully
with its neighbors and those over whom it rules, the Zionist state has
progressively segregated itself both morally and politically from the
region and most of the international community, including a growing
number of Jews here and elsewhere in the West.

Israel has nonetheless also demonstrated that its hold on domestic
U.S. politics remains unbroken. This past year, it was able to compel
our president to swear allegiance to expansive Zionism and to
repudiate policies endorsed by his own and previous administrations as
well as the international community. By contemptuously overriding the
views and interests of the United States in this way, Israel and its
American claque debased and discredited American international
prestige and regional credibility. As a consequence, the world has
come together in a series of ever firmer votes of no-confidence in
U.S. leadership and diplomacy on the Israel-Palestine dispute.
American military might remains unchallengeable, but the power of the
United States to protect Israel from the political and legal
consequences of its policies, statements, and actions has been gravely
impaired. This is a perverse result for an Israeli government and its
supporters to have engineered.

For their part, after decades of bitter frustration with a feckless,
fraudulent, and ultimately fruitless American-led “peace process,” the
Palestinians have concluded that they cannot count on the United
States. They have ended their deference to what they (and most of the
world) now see as America’s meretricious manipulation of their affairs
to their occupier’s advantage. They have taken the initiative to
rally regional and global support for their self-determination and
independence from Israel. They hope in this way to transform the
struggle for Palestinian independence into a more equal contest.
Theirs will no longer be a bilateral struggle between a strong, US-
backed Israel and a Palestine with no leverage. It will, they hope,
become a contest between Israel and the world’s conscience.

Ironically, political reactions here to these developments promise not
only to isolate the United States in international organizations but
to deprive us of our residual influence with the Palestinians. The
end of U.S. subsidies to the Palestinian Authority will force Israel
to assume responsibility for security and other services in the
Occupied Territories that it had successfully unloaded on Palestinian
collaborators funded by American and other foreign taxpayers. Instead
of facilitating the occupation by paying Palestinians to police it,
Americans and Europeans are now likely to face demands to pay Israel
directly to conduct it. Europeans, at least, are unlikely to take up
this burden.

The perceived need to counter Israeli and American policies is already
throwing together some strange diplomatic bedfellows. It is also
marginalizing American influence on other issues of concern in West
Asia and North Africa. The regional clout of non-Western powers like
China, India, and Russia will surely grow concomitantly.

If this sounds grim, I apologize. I cannot promise that, as is the
case on Saudi Channel One, amusing cartoons will follow the sermon. I
must leave it to those who follow me to provide comic relief. I’m
happy to do that. Years ago, Ronald Reagan told me: “you know, they
say that hard work never killed anybody. But why take a chance?” He
delegated as much as he could to experts who were smarter than he
was. He set a good example I plan to follow.

This conference has been convened to weigh the implications of the
trends and developments I’ve outlined. As I look at the agenda, I see
that it will also consider other legacies of past and present US
policies in the region, like Iran’s resentful anti-Americanism and
assertive search for regional hegemony, the cancerous growth of
sectarianism in the Arab world, the deepening Iraqi strategic
alignment with Iran, the proliferation of vengeful anti-American
radicalism, and the likely fallout from the failing US-led
pacification effort in Afghanistan. In the past, denial that these
are urgent problems may have sufficed to evade uncomfortable but
necessary dialogue. Neither silence nor inaction is now a viable
option for Americans, Arabs, Iranians, Israelis, or others with a
stake in the future of the Middle East.

Three decades after Iran’s revolution, some or all of the world’s 340
million Arabs are following Persians into a repudiation of foreign
tutelage. The Iranian upheaval of 1979 marked the end of any notion
of Iran as the political or cultural ward of Britain, Russia, or the
United States. Country by country, whether under new or existing
governments, Arabs too are now asserting the right to their own self-
determined national identities and policies. Arabs are not Persians;
Sunni political culture is not that of Shi`ism; and the histories of
the diverse parts of the Arab world differ significantly from those of
Iran. It’s unlikely that any Arab country will follow Iran into
uncompromisingly theocratic forms of governance that derive their
legitimacy from broad confrontation with the West and its values.
Still, the Arab uprisings of 2011 have made it politically impossible
for rulers to put the agendas of Western patrons ahead of the views,
interests, and religious traditions of their own publics.

This shift in mind set and popular expectations has huge strategic
implications. It foretells Arab governments and policies that seek
the authenticity that only the consent of the governed and respect for
their values and views can provide. The colonial era was over
elsewhere five or six decades ago. As the Arabs insist on
independence under popular sovereignty, whether exercised through one
ruler or many, the last vestiges of neo-colonialism are vanishing in
West Asia and North Africa as well. In the new era, relations between
Middle Eastern states will be determined by local judgments about what
is right, proper, and to the national advantage, not what is
ordained, championed, or paid for by an outside power, patron, or
overlord. That has been the case for Israel. It will now be the case
for Israel’s Arab neighbors as well.

Arab rulers have just had it driven home to them that they cannot rely
on Americans to protect them from domestic backlash to unpopular
policies. They’ve also learned that they cannot look to America to
constrain Israel. The strategic utility of the United States to Arab
governments has been correspondingly devalued. As a result, Israel
can no longer count on U.S. alliances, aid programs, or patron-client
allegiances to exempt it from the consequences of its dysfunctional
relationships with its neighbors.

Israelis played a major role in creating the adverse circumstances in
which they now find themselves. They must now make their own peace
with Turkey, sustain their own relations with Egypt and Jordan, and
find their own basis for coexistence with Iran, Iraq, and Saudi
Arabia, among others. They must craft their own modus vivendi and
achieve their own reconciliation with Palestinians and Lebanese, whom
they have heretofore treated with contemptuous cruelty and disrespect.

The spectacle of members of Congress bouncing up and down like so many
obsequious yo-yos as Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke to them last May
is irrefutable evidence of Israel’s hammerlock on U.S. policy. But
U.S. policy no longer decides what happens politically or economically
in the Middle East. This has created a new and less certain political
environment in West Asia and North Africa. For the first time in
decades, Israel must manage its regional and international
relationships on its own. Judging from Israel’s recent handling of
incidents with the UAE, Turkey, and Egypt, neither its current
government nor its political elite understands the new environment or
is mentally prepared to cope with it.

Israel would be in difficulty even if American prestige in the Middle
East had not imploded. But it has. Our previous reputation was so
strong that Americans had to work really hard to do it in. With a
little help from our friends, we proved we were up to the task.

The factors that went into destroying our appeal and authority are
many. They begin with the disingenuous diplomacy of the now defunct
“peace process.” The major result of three decades of American
mediation has been to discredit American diplomacy. In effect, the
United States facilitated the ongoing seizure of territory by Israel
at the expense of a just settlement of differences between Israelis
and Palestinians and Palestinian self-determination.

The reputation of the United States for wisdom, truthfulness, and
competence was also gravely damaged by the invasions of Afghanistan
and Iraq. The course of events in both countries convincingly
demonstrated the limitations of U.S. military power. The strategic
fallout continues to spread. In Iraq, the U.S. ravaged a proud Arab
society. The resulting anarchy set off a widening firestorm of
sectarian violence in the Arab world. It also catalyzed a major – and
so far uncountered – extension of Iranian influence in the region.

Washington’s eager connivance in the maiming of Lebanon in 2006 and of
Gaza just before the Obama administration took office added to the
perception of the United States as indifferent, if not sadistically
happy about the suffering of Arab or Muslim populations. By
conservative estimate, U.S. policies and military actions in the post
Cold War period have directly or indirectly caused the deaths of
between 250,000 and a million Muslims and displaced at least ten
million from their homes. One does not need an advanced degree to
understand the origins of Muslim rage against America

America’s ideological appeal has also faded. The abuses at Kandahar,
Bagram, Abu Ghraib, and Guantánamo erased the international image of
America as a champion of freedom, fair play, the rule of law, and
human rights. Inconsistencies in the U.S. response to the popular
uprisings in various Arab countries seriously undercut the credibility
of American support for democracy. So has Washington’s willingness to
attempt the overthrow of freely elected governments it and Israel
dislike, like the Hamas-led government elected in Palestine in 2006.
There is little sympathy for Hamas in most of the Arab world, but
there is now universal outrage at U.S. collusion in the ongoing
Israeli effort to terrorize Palestinians in Gaza and permanently
ghettoize them. The blatant hate speech against Arabs and Muslims
that now pervades American political discourse further reduces the
willingness of people in the region to give a sympathetic hearing to
American perspectives on events.

So too, I am sorry to say, does the mounting global perception of the
United States as a country that can’t get its act together. In the
first few years of this century, many abroad came to see us as a
military bully. More recently, they have viewed our national
leadership as terminally uncivil, unable to set priorities or
otherwise address urgent national and international problems,
economically illiterate and fiscally incompetent, ignorant and
indifferent to foreign realities, and committed to the view that
threats, sanctions, and military intervention are the answer to most
foreign policy problems.

Of course, we’re not a bully. We’re just a superpower with
attitude. A friend of mine who works on Capitol Hill assures me that
foreigners seriously “misunderestimate” our politicians. Seen up
close, he says, they are without doubt the finest decision-makers that
political contributions can lease. If “that government is best which
governs least,” he boasts, the United States has now achieved a rare
perfection. We have attained a level of political gridlock in which
the people’s representatives celebrate their faith in God by leaving
it to Him to solve the problems their own previous misbehavior
created. We should be happy to be so thoroughly ungoverned, my friend
believes. But even he, a well-traveled French intellectual, admits
that, from afar, we don’t look as good as we once did.

The fact is that, even without the strategic albatross of all-out
support for self-destructive Israeli policies, the United States now
has less going for it than ever before to help it shape the strategic
contours of a changing Middle East. Yet it is in this highly adverse
context that we Americans must protect our interests. To do this, we
must acknowledge the multiple failures of our policies to achieve
their declared objectives.

We have not persuaded Israel to accept the recognition and
reconciliation that all twenty-two Arab countries and thirty-five
additional Muslim states have offered. There has been no Israeli
offer of peace to the Palestinians or anyone else in the region, only
demands for unconditional acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state. Yet
contemporary Israel is a transplant in the region that needs mutually
respectful relations with its other peoples to assure long-term
survival. It is now clear beyond a reasonable doubt that we Americans
do not have the will or the self-confidence to help Israel achieve
this. Nor do we have the bona fides necessary to conduct the sort of
shuttle diplomacy we once did. Anyone who watched the U.S. Congress
clap, curtsy, and kowtow to Mr. Netanyahu understands why we now have
no credibility as a mediator.

We have not been able to end the increasingly brutal Israeli
occupation and siege in the West Bank and Gaza. Neither is compatible
with international law, Security Council decisions, Israel’s
undertakings in the Camp David accords, the spirit of the Oslo
agreement, the terms of the “Roadmap,” or other relevant doctrines and
decisions. We routinely deplore Israel’s policies and actions without
ceasing to fund them or to prevent anyone else from halting them. No
one takes what we say about Israeli or Palestinian behavior seriously
anymore.

We are now trying to scuttle our own longstanding approach to the
achievement of Palestinian self-determination and independence from
Israel. The only answer we have to others’ objections to this is the
power of the veto. But there is no reason to expect the Palestinians
or the vast majority of the international community that is now
aligned with them against us to restrict their challenges to the
Security Council or other arenas where we can block them. They are
pretty clearly ready to exclude and bypass us.

We do not know how to douse the spreading wildfire of sectarian
violence in the Muslim world that we inadvertently ignited by
thrusting Iraq into anarchy. We have no coherent answer to uprisings
and unrest in places as disparate as Bahrain, Syria, and Yemen or to
the success of rebellion in Libya. We do not know how to deal with
democratic Islamists. We have not come up with a way to counter
Islamist terrorists with global reach. Our current approach simply
intensifies their fervor, strengthens their base among the Muslim
faithful, and multiplies their supporters and copy-cats.

We have no strategy for countering Iranian inroads in the Arab world
or causing Tehran to abandon its presumed nuclear ambitions. Iraq is
aligned with Iran on issues from Syria and Lebanon to Bahrain. We are
about to withdraw from Iraq without reaching any strategically
advantageous understanding with Baghdad. We are conducting our
relations with Pakistan and Afghanistan in ways that maximize the risk
of protracted terrorist reprisal for our slaughter of civilians and
alienation of religious and tribal elements in both. We don’t know
what to do about the situations we have helped create in either or
both countries.

That’s a lot of “known unknowns.” It would be easy to become
depressed.

On the other hand, over the past year, like all right-thinking
Americans, I have learned to be happy and love national credit
rollovers. I count it a triumph that we have so far avoided a
government shutdown. And I’m confident that the “Super Committee” has
our fiscal situation in hand. According to my French intellectual
friend on Capitol Hill, the Supers are about to produce a
comprehensive nonpartisan resolution of our fiscal dilemmas. This
will contract the economy while creating jobs and slash budgetary
outlays while upping defense spending to produce the best of all
possible worlds. I really want to believe this even if it’s clearly
nuts. After all, if voodoo economics could get us into this mess, why
can’t it get us out of it?

But in the absence of fiscal sorcery and some serious changes in
policy, some or all of the following is very likely in our future.

Israel will be increasingly ostracized, boycotted, and prosecuted
internationally for its scofflaw behavior, racist policies, and daily
violence and intermittent pogroms against Palestinians. The United
States will suffer correspondingly from guilt by our continuing close
association with Israel. Over our objections, Turks, Egyptians,
Saudis, and other Gulf Arabs will make common cause on matters
relating to Palestine. (The good news is that the Ayatollah Khamenei
is aligned with Prime Minister Netanyahu and other yahoos in seeking
to block a viable two-state solution in Palestine. Iran will
therefore not make common cause with Arab countries. It doesn’t share
their current and our former belief that the way to bring peace to the
Middle East is through the implementation of United Nations Security
Council Resolution 242 by recognizing the division of the Holy Land
between Israel and a much smaller State of Palestine.

The Palestinian issue will move from meeting rooms where we are
present to conference rooms where we are not – or where our objections
to measures against Israel are opposed or ignored by large,
unsympathetic majorities. The defunded Palestinian Authority will
likely cease to function. Instead of being able to rely on continuing
Palestinian collaboration on intelligence and security matters, Israel
will try to deal with those parts of the Occupied Territories still
inhabited by Palestinians the same way it does with Gaza. Palestinian
and Arab politics will be further radicalized.

Some Palestinian factions, long quiescent, will resume operations
against Israelis in Israel as well as the Occupied Territories.
Others will return to terrorism against the soft targets represented
by Israel’s supporters abroad. Not a few Israelis will conclude that
the United States, not Israel, is the only secure domicile for the
world’s Jews. Jewish emigration from Israel will accelerate. The
United States will gain many desirable new citizens as a result.

The visible presence of U.S. troops on Arab soil will attract
escalating local protests as well as terrorist attacks. The U.S. will
step up assassinations of alleged proponents, planners, and
perpetrators of such attacks. Collateral damage will mount. So will
popular rage against the United States and pressure on Arab
governments to deny U.S. forces access to facilities and installations
in the region. Eventually, one or more Arab governments will decide
that having an American military presence on its territory or
facilitating transit or overflight by the U.S. armed forces is too
provocative to local opinion. Other Arab governments will follow.
The U.S. ability to rely on strategic lines of communication in the
Gulf to link Asia to Europe and to project power around the world will
take a big hit.

The Gulf Arabs, Iran, and Turkey will compete for the support of
previously uncommitted external powers, like Brazil, China, India, and
Russia. Gulf Arab governments will find it easy to buy arms from
these countries but impossible to persuade them to replace weakening
U.S. defense commitments with their own. GCC member countries will be
driven toward greater self-reliance and stronger cooperation with each
other. Some will ally with Turkey, Pakistan, and Egypt. Others will
make their peace with Iran. Military training in the United States
and the ease of cooperation and habits of coordination that it fosters
will decline as U.S. budgets contract, military ties to the Gulf
attenuate, and the region’s military relationships diversify.

Now that I’ve cheered you up, let me turn briefly to what might be
done to avoid or mitigate developments like these. The writing may
be on the wall but nothing is certain until the ink dries. Other
speakers will have creative ideas about what is to be done. We need
some new ideas to end our current wars and to restore our domestic
security and tranquility. Before other speakers step up to this
challenge, let me venture a few thoughts.

In the Holy Land, it’s about time we recalled the Hippocratic oath.
This advises those with the power to intervene to “abstain from doing
harm.” To put it more realistically, we should abstain from doing
more harm than we already have. Foolishly encouraging Israelis to
indulge in a belief that they can enjoy security through eternal
reliance on American subsidies and protection and by sustaining a
perpetual state of war with neighboring peoples not only does them no
favor; it does Israel, the United States, and the Arabs great harm.

For a long time, we have acted as the enablers of self-injurious
Israeli behavior. This has made it possible for Israel to choose land
over peace, to corrupt its democracy, to deviate from the core values
of its official religion as understood by Jews abroad, to empower
racism and bigotry among its Jewish majority, and, most recently, to
humiliate the president of the United States while extracting twenty-
nine kowtows from Congress.

No one now harbors any real hope that America can either deliver peace
or help Israelis, Palestinians, and those with whom they share their
region to achieve it. We have shown convincingly that bilateral
negotiations between grossly unequal parties cannot produce an
equitable and sustainable result unless outside parties are willing to
intervene to redress the imbalances in power. Yet an equitable and
sustainable result is an imperative not only for Israelis and Arabs
but for Americans as well. The costs of no peace are becoming too
great to be sustained.

The essential objective of stated U.S. policy has always been the
achievement of acceptance for Israel in its region through self-
determination for the Palestinians in their own state. This is what
the Arab peace initiative of 2002 offered. Americans need to get out
of the way and let the international community work with the Arabs to
help Israel embrace peace.

The last American with a valid claim to the status of peacemaker in
the Middle East is the much-maligned Jimmy Carter. He put the squeeze
on Menachem Begin to accept the peace that Anwar Sadat had bravely
offered. There is no prospect that any elected or appointed American
official could now act toward an Israeli leader with the determination
that President Carter showed in September 1978 at Camp David.
Conversely, as long as the United States fawns on Israel and uses
drones and hit teams to carry out extrajudicial executions in an
expanding list of Arab and Muslim countries, no president will have
any credibility with Palestinians, other Arabs, or the broader Islamic
community. The American-led “peace process” is over. We blew it.

The United States must now let the international community do for
Binyamin Netanyahu what Jimmy Carter did for Menachem Begin – make
Israel an offer of peace it will not let its prime minister refuse.
This means ceasing to block the diplomatic tough love for Israel that
only non-Americans can provide, and it means withdrawing U.S. funding
and other support for Israeli policies and programs that harm U.S.
interests or constitute obstacles to peace. The combination of
international pressure and diminishing U.S. support is necessary to
concentrate Israeli minds on the long-term choices before their
country.

Peace has long been available if Israel would only trade sufficient
land for it. The vast majority of Israelis favor swapping land for
peace. A succession of right-wing Israeli governments has worked to
obviate this possibility by creating adverse “facts on the ground.”
It is time instead to create circumstances that will empower the
Israeli majority to push their country’s recalcitrant politicians into
peaceful coexistence with the other peoples of the Middle East.

Most Americans would rather forget Iraq now that we’re leaving it.
But Iraq isn’t going away as an issue. Our invasion of Iraq left Iran
without a credible military challenger in the region. Our withdrawal
from Iraq leaves us with no strategy for countering Iranian
aspirations for hegemony in the Middle East other than keeping a large
part of our armed forces in the Arab countries of the Gulf. Such a
presence is a stimulus to terrorism. Sustaining it is also almost
certainly beyond our future fiscal capacity. Our usual response in
such situations is to ask for host nation support. Given the loathing
our policies in the Holy Land now inspire and the hatred our drone and
other attacks are stoking, it is uncertain how Gulf Arab governments
would respond to such a request. Subsidies to an American military
presence are likely to be highly unpopular even where exceptional
levels of citizen affluence prevail.

A better approach would be to adopt a more economic and less fatiguing
strategy, like backstopping security arrangements that the GCC might
contract with Turkey, Egypt, and Pakistan as well, possibly, with
others, like a Syria that is no longer in the Iranian political
orbit. Among other benefits, this would share the burden of
guaranteeing Gulf Arab security between the United States and other
countries with an interest in the security of energy supplies,
regional stability, and a global oil patch undominated by a single
supplier. Such countries include all the great powers of Europe and
Asia. Why should those who benefit from global order not share the
burden of sustaining it by supporting the GCC?

In this context, the situation in Bahrain has much broader strategic
implications than many seem to realize. Bahrain is a fundamentally
decent society but there are serious injustices there, as many in the
Bahraini ruling family will admit. The Bahraini opposition is now
infected with the revolutionary Iranian ideology of wilayat al faqih,
a self-serving and self-righteous clericalism that rejects
accommodation with secular authority.

The issues are complex. Negotiation is difficult for both sides.
Yet, if there is no meeting of the minds, the disharmony in Bahrain,
already an ulcer on GCC security, will afflict more than just
Bahrainis. It will become an open wound that neither Iran nor Shi`ite
Iraq will be able to resist probing.

It is hard to see how the U.S. Fifth Fleet could remain ashore in
Bahrain under such circumstances. The island kingdom has become a
crucial arena for the widening sectarian struggle in the Gulf as well
as the contest for regional influence between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
A measure of order has now been restored in Bahrain. Substantial
reform must follow if domestic tranquility is to be sustained and
opportunities for external mischief-making contained.

The situation in Bahrain is an example of the strategic dangers posed
by injustice that is contaminated by sectarian division. In this and
other contexts, I have to say, it’s hard to understand what’s in it
for Saudi Arabia to continue to attempt to define itself by its Islam
rather than by its character as the heartland of the Arabs. Where
Saudi Arabia differs from Iran and resembles the Iranian-penetrated
states and societies of Bahrain, Lebanon, and Iraq is in its
“Arabness,” not its adherence to one or another school of Islam. The
assertion of an Islamic rather than an Arab identity was a rational
response to the challenge of secular Arab nationalism half a century
ago. It makes little sense today, when the threat emanates from
within the Dar al Islam and the objective must be to discourage other
Arab states from aligning with a non-Arab state against the Kingdom.

Religious ideology is Iran’s battleground of choice. One should
never allow one’s adversary to pick the field of battle. Only Saudis
can decide who they are, but, in terms of Saudi prospects for victory
in the struggle for the soul of the Arab world, Arab identity and
tradition would seem to be a more promising choice of terrain on which
to make a stand than religion. There is nothing Arab about the
concept of rule by mullahs embodied in the recent theological
innovation of wilayat al faqih. It is not a doctrine that Arab
Shi`ites should find appealing, any more than Arab Sunnis do. The
need to ensure that Shi`ite Arabs do not embrace it is an argument for
expanded religious dialogue and tolerance.

Iran’s hegemonic ambitions are a serious problem for its neighbors.
There is no magic bullet to put an end to this problem. Military
action is more likely to create new problems than to solve this one.
Dealing with Iran requires a comprehensive strategy and engagement
linked to a long-term effort by the GCC that is backed by the United
States and others. No such strategy or effort is in place. The
current cascade of sanctions, threats of air attack, and covert
actions against nuclear facilities does not add up to a strategy. The
sanctions impoverish ordinary Iranians and rally them against foreign
enemies. The threats emphasize to them how much safer they would be
if only they had a nuclear deterrent. The cyber attacks and other
covert actions against Iran retard its nuclear program but do not
address its motivations for the program or halt it.

There is no unity of purpose among those concerned about the various
dimensions of Iranian behavior. The GCC does not have anything useful
to say to Iran about its nuclear programs. Those in the region, like
Turkey, who have tried to speak to Iran on this issue have been
undercut rather than supported by the West. Iran’s roles in Iraq,
Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Afghanistan, and elsewhere are unaddressed
by American diplomacy, which is entirely focused on eliminating the
presumed Iranian threat to Israel’s regional nuclear monopoly. It is
clearly time for all concerned about the diverse challenges Iran
presents to confer, to deconflict their disparate policy priorities,
and to cooperate.

Osama Binladin was finally apprehended through classic intelligence
and law enforcement work. He was killed by Navy Seals but it is hard
to argue that a military hit team was essential to arrest or execute
him. America seems wedded to a militarized approach to combating
terrorism despite the fact that this is widening our struggle to an
expanding list of Muslim countries – not narrowing it – while
deepening existing Muslim animosity toward the United States. We need
to rethink our approach. Decimating leadership structures can
demoralize and disorient armies. But we are not dealing with armies.
We are dealing with an enraged global community and an ideology that
tells individuals within it what targets are legitimate objects of
retribution and reprisal and that motivates them to act on their own
or to seek others of like mind to join them in acts of terrorism.

Unless the causes of Muslim indignation are mitigated and the deviant
ideology of those who exploit it is refuted, anti-American terrorism
will continue to flourish. The apprehension and execution of Osama
Binladin or other prominent terrorists punishes their crimes against
us but we should be under no illusion that it shakes either the
motivation or the rationale of those they inspire. To accomplish
that, we need the help of Muslim allies. We Americans are good at
killing our enemies. We are unqualified to refute Islamic heresies
and unsuited to persuading those who have embraced these heresies to
step aside from the path to terror. We need Muslim help to accomplish
both.

I am tempted to turn to Afghanistan and Pakistan, where many believe
it’s all over but the excuses for the retreat, but, fortunately, my
time has expired.

I want to close by affirming my faith in the adaptability and
resilience of the United States. With all the problems we have made
for ourselves and our friends in the Middle East, we have just about
run out of alternatives to doing the right things. Now we may get
around to actually doing them, insha’Allah. Bukra. Mumkin.

Did you like this article? Share it with your friends!



Written by Chas Freeman

Ambassador Freeman chairs Projects International, Inc. He is a retired
U.S. defense official, diplomat, and interpreter, the recipient of
numerous high honors and awards, a popular public speaker, and the
author of five books.

[Tell it like it is.]

> interests, and religious traditions of their ...
>
> read more »

[Tell it like it is.]

People like you fulfill the words of Christ in Israel: "They strain
the gnat from the soupe du jour, but swallow the camel whole".
I think HHW is doing great considering the distraction he gets from
the likes of you and drahcir, and nary a kind word.

[HHW]

On May 30, 9:08 pm, "Tell it like it is."

Gracias, Tell it.

[HHW]

On May 28, 10:49 pm, מין הארץ יהודי ישראלי עברית אמריקאי

Get serious occasionally, Nefesh. Put on your AMERICAN tin foil hat on
and read this carefully. For just a few minutes imagine that you're
not Jewish and have no conflict of interest about what our national
interests are.

The Mess in the Middle East

Chas Freeman October 27, 2011

[HHW]

On May 28, 11:25 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 7:57 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 27, 6:48 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 26, 9:53 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 26, 8:21 pm, "Sam Houston" <MrSamHous...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > > > I'm on Deb's side. The earth can swallow up Hunter.
>
> > > > Of course you are, Nefesh. But I'm a bone in the throat

Clip filth.

> > Filthy woman, who was responsible for raising you?

-------------------------------------

[drahcir]

H, do me a favor, will ya? Tell psycho that I've plonked him. Thanks.

[HHW]

On May 31, 7:20 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 May 2013 22:28:02 -0700 (PDT), HHW

> >> People like you fulfill the words of Christ in Israel: "They strain
> >> the gnat from the soupe du jour, but swallow the camel whole".
> >> I think HHW is doing great considering the distraction he gets from
> >> the likes of you and drahcir, and nary a kind word.
>
> >Gracias, Tell it.

> H, do me a favor, will ya? Tell psycho that I've plonked him. Thanks.

I doubt whomever you speak of will do any grief. Certainly Tell It
wouldn't.

[מין הארץ יהודי ישראלי עברית אמריקאי‎]

> the authenticity that only the consent of the governed and ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We had a coon named Freeman in bootcamp with us. He was a rat.

[Tell it like it is.]

On May 31, 9:00 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 31, 7:20 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

On Thu, 30 May 2013 22:28:02 -0700 (PDT), HHW

People like drahcir and Deborah Sharavi aka fulfill the words of

Christ in Israel: "They strain
the gnat from the soupe du jour, but swallow the camel whole".
I think HHW is doing great considering the distraction he gets from

the likes of drahcir and the other stalker, and nary a kind word from
either of them except Sharavi's usual hard work.

[Tell it like it is.]

Jerry Lewis singing, is like a man with a sex change operation
singing, in his natural voice after the alterations, at least it
sounded that way to me; jerry can't sing, dean can, or drahcir
responding to HHW at soc.culture.usa. It must be a jewish orientation.
It sounds so queer even though it is not. I can't decide who makes the
best transvestites Mexicans or Jews. However the Asian man in a bar
one night had nice shoulder length hair. Too bad he had a dick. Even
Dustin Hoffman can't excuse same-sex-marriage except as Christian
gutlessness in America.
I put the topic back in the subject box just so
drahcir, as screwed up as he is, can remember what HHW is writing
about in this thread.

[drahcir]

Learn when to use "whomever" vs. "whoever". Here's an easy way to
figure it out - just substitute "him" or "he". Employing this
strategy, what you've written reads "I doubt him will do any grief".
Get it? I realize that you thought that whomever sounds more
sophisticated, so your pretentiousness bit you yet again, but the
truth is that neither indicates status in and of itself. It is only
when one misuses them that one reveals oneself.

That is, of course, beside the fact that your sentence is a
non-ssquitur.

[HHW]

On May 31, 12:28 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 May 2013 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>

Ha, why make a mess of it with those stupid substitutions?

[HHW]

On May 31, 12:28 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

>

> That is, of course, beside the fact that your sentence is a
> non-ssquitur.

Might you summon-up the guts to discuss Chas Freeman's brilliant
analysis of the situation in the Middle East? I've posted it twice in
this thread. You avoid it as if it were radioactive. Everyone here
should read Freeman's "The Mess in the Middle East". He takes no
prisoners. He pulls no punches. He exposes American and Israeli
policies as morally, financially and pragmatically bankrupt. If there
is any single article you should read it is this one. Circulate it.