IRAQ SHOULD LEAVE THE ARAB LEAGUE
Harith Frangoul
"American-Arab Anti-Descrimintion Committee"
for their meeting in April. Iraq was not mentioned
in the agenda. Isn't that a descrimination
against Iraq? What is that committee a joke?
Or is it another department in the US government?
If this is what Arabs are about then, please,
consider us out of your Arab League.
-Harith Frangoul
Harith Frangoul
>than five Arab countries teamed up with the United States to Kick your
>stupid arab leader ass.
>I heard that someone started collecting Infos. about you. By the way
>you look cute in the CTI class photo (1983) as you were standing by Najwa
>Haddad. I told you don't mess with the best.
>
>Michel (known as Micho on IRC)
I'm npt going to respond to your political garbage.
However, on a personal level, I'm known as a person
who hides nothing. No reason to go back to books to read
about me. Ask me.
Let's end it here.
-Harith Frangoul
Rania Masri
> Harith Frangoul known as Enlil on IRC wrote:
>
> >I wasn't shocked to read the agenda of the so called:
>
> > "American-Arab Anti-Descrimintion Committee"
>
> >for their meeting in April. Iraq was not mentioned > >in the agenda.
Isn't that a descrimination > >against Iraq? What is that committee a
joke? > >Or is it another department in the US government? > >If this is
what Arabs are about then, please, > >consider us out of your Arab League.
> >-Harith Frangoul
>
> Don't worry about it man you were kicked out from the league when more
> than five Arab countries teamed up with the United States to Kick your
> stupid arab leader ass.
Briefly....
Michel, Such use of language is inappropriate, to say the
least. Furthermore, 'five Arab countries' did NOT team up
with the US - the US led the war, and those Arab countries
followed [for numerous reasons]. Also, the US did not destroy
Iraq in the military war - and is not still destroying Iraq to
remove the Iraqi leader. The reason is the destruction of
Iraq. Why? The answer is simple - and I would recommend, if
you are sincerely interested in this issue, for you to read
the article by Gerhard Lange in the Iraq Action Coalition
homepage at:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/rrmasri/www/IAC/
Lastly, your comment implies that Saddam Hussein [alone] was hurt.
More than 300,000 people [and this a most conservative
estimate] were killed during the 43 day military bombardment on
Iraq - a war that equaled the power of 7 Hiroshimas. The most
conservative estimate states that MORE than one Million people
in Iraq have already died due directly to the sanctions [a
continued war on the country]. MORE than 564,000 CHILDREN UNDER
THE AGE OF FIVE have died to lack of food and basic medicine due
directly to the continued sanctions. [and these are most
conservative estimates] The Sanctions are War and
this war is a massacre.
Please remember the victims of this 5+year war - the children,
the women, the men - the innocent civilians.
There is absolutely no justification to starving children.
- Rania, back from NY
Michel Najem
>I wasn't shocked to read the agenda of the so called:
> "American-Arab Anti-Descrimintion Committee"
>for their meeting in April. Iraq was not mentioned
>in the agenda. Isn't that a descrimination
>against Iraq? What is that committee a joke?
>Or is it another department in the US government?
>If this is what Arabs are about then, please,
>consider us out of your Arab League.
>-Harith Frangoul
Don't worry about it man you were kicked out from the league when more
than five Arab countries teamed up with the United States to Kick your
stupid arab leader ass.
Rania Masri
> Rania Masri (rrm...@unity.ncsu.edu) wrote:
>
> : Please remember the victims of this 5+year war - the children,
> : the women, the men - the innocent civilians.
>
> : There is absolutely no justification to starving children.
>
> In full recognition of this fact, the U.N. has provided specifically for
> the sale of more than $2,000,000,000 of oil by Iraq under U.N.
> supervision for the purpose of purchasing food and medicine for the
> innocent men, women and children. However, Saddam Hussein has decided
> that such provisions (designed to ensure that the money is in fact used
> for food and medicine) offend Iraqi sovereignty and has refused to sell
> the oil or buy the food and medicine. Given that this is all public
> information, why do you blame the embargo for the starvation? It seems to
> me that it is Saddam Hussein's policies and not the embargo that is
> starving those children.
If you are sincerely interested in why the UN resolution is
unacceptable, I urge you to refer to the Iraq Action Coalition
homepage. The facts speak for themselves.
-Rania
---------------------------------------------------
http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/rrmasri/www/IAC/
Iraq Action Coalition
SAMI ELKHAYRI
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Michel Najem wrote:
>
> The arab created for me a cause that is more hhonorable than any other cause.
> The Lebanese cause.
>
> Michel
>
Michel,
The Lebanese cause and the Arab cause are, at least in my point of view,
the same. The Lebanese war was a civil war. The Syrians intervened to
defend their interests, and so did Israel. If I'm not mistaken, the
Palestinians defended Lebanon against Israel in 1982, but you people
wanted them out, so they left. I know this is a hot point, but Syria also
defended Lebanon (I suspect you strongly disagree). So don't say you were
left to defend Lebanon on your own.
As for singing and dancing while children died in Lebanon, you make it
sound like we were cheering the slaughter. What did you expect the
average Arab to do? It was Lebanese against Lebanese. The case is
different in Iraq. Iraq is not in a civil war. Iraq is being mistreated
by a foreign enemy.
As for your earlier comment about Iraq being kicked out of the Arab
league, I would leave that for the Arabs to decide, since I doubt you
consider yourself one. Iraq is and will always be an Arab country whose
past, present and future is very closely tied to those of the rest of the
Arab world. Don't forget, Iraq was once the center of the Arab and Muslim
worlds.
Salam,
Sami.
Ira P. Weiss
: On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Michel Najem wrote:
: Please remember the victims of this 5+year war - the children,
: the women, the men - the innocent civilians.
: There is absolutely no justification to starving children.
In full recognition of this fact, the U.N. has provided specifically for
the sale of more than $2,000,000,000 of oil by Iraq under U.N.
supervision for the purpose of purchasing food and medicine for the
innocent men, women and children. However, Saddam Hussein has decided
that such provisions (designed to ensure that the money is in fact used
for food and medicine) offend Iraqi sovereignty and has refused to sell
the oil or buy the food and medicine. Given that this is all public
information, why do you blame the embargo for the starvation? It seems to
me that it is Saddam Hussein's policies and not the embargo that is
starving those children.
Ira
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: As for your earlier comment about Iraq being kicked out of the Arab
: league, I would leave that for the Arabs to decide, since I doubt you
: consider yourself one. Iraq is and will always be an Arab country whose
: past, present and future is very closely tied to those of the rest of the
: Arab world. Don't forget, Iraq was once the center of the Arab and Muslim
: worlds.
So in your opinion, an arab will kill, rape, steal and distroy another
arab country ? is this the real character of an arab !!!!
Iraq chose to invade/occupy Kuwait and it paid a price for that action.
And if you and Ms Masri realy care about the ordinary Iraqi citizen then
you have to direct your attention and work on Saddam & his regime which
is the main cause for the suffering of the Ordinary Iraqi.
You are right that Iraq as a country is and will continue to be an arab
country, but not Saddam's Iraq. Saddam's Iraq deserves no respect for
what it has done and still doing to its people and neighbors.
Salam
Qutaiba
--
Qutaiba Razouqi -------...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu--------------
PhD Student |
Computer Science & Eng Dept Winning isn't always Victory |________
Arizona State University & Losing isn't always a Defeat |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michel Najem
Rania Masri wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Michel Najem wrote:
>
>> Don't worry about it man you were kicked out from the league when more
>> than five Arab countries teamed up with the United States to Kick your
>> stupid arab leader ass.
> Michel, Such use of language is inappropriate, to say the
> least. Furthermore, 'five Arab countries' did NOT team up
one who is responsible of the destruction of Iraq.
> with the US - the US led the war, and those Arab countries
> followed [for numerous reasons]. Also, the US did not destroy
> Iraq in the military war - and is not still destroying Iraq to
> remove the Iraqi leader. The reason is the destruction of
> Iraq. Why? The answer is simple - and I would recommend, if
> you are sincerely interested in this issue, for you to read
> the article by Gerhard Lange in the Iraq Action Coalition
> homepage at:
> http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/rrmasri/www/IAC/
don't only blame the US blame the stupid Iraqi dictator who fell in the trap
as well as all the arab countries that joined the US in operation sesert storm.
Arab unity heh what a joke.
> Lastly, your comment implies that Saddam Hussein [alone] was hurt.
> More than 300,000 people [and this a most conservative
> estimate] were killed during the 43 day military bombardment on
> Iraq - a war that equaled the power of 7 Hiroshimas. The most
> conservative estimate states that MORE than one Million people
> in Iraq have already died due directly to the sanctions [a
> continued war on the country]. MORE than 564,000 CHILDREN UNDER
> THE AGE OF FIVE have died to lack of food and basic medicine due
> directly to the continued sanctions. [and these are most
> conservative estimates] The Sanctions are War and
> this war is a massacre.
war you must be ready for the results. Saddam Husein until today refuse
to work with the UN. He is refusing to sell oil to buy food and medicine
to his people. The only solution to restore a normal life in Iraq is to
get ride of the lunatic who led his country to destruction.
> Please remember the victims of this 5+year war - the children,
> the women, the men - the innocent civilians.
remembering those who died by Iraqies bombs in Lebanon. I'm too busy trying to
figure out why when my country was on fire and my people were being killed
the arab world including Iraq sat their watching the destruction of a country
that never harmed them. I'm busy trying to figure out why the arab countries
supplied the warring factions with weapons during the war. Damn not even
one demostration against the Lebanese war in the arab world not even when
Israel invaded beirut. So please Rania leave me alone with my people and my
country. Rania have you ever been stopped by a young Lebanese kid who asked
you for a piece of bread? Did you ever saw a man killed by a bomb that was
manufactured in Iraq or in Syria? I guess not. Do I suffer when I hear the
news about the Iraqi people? Sure I do there is no question about it. But do
I blame the US for what is going on there? NO. I only blame Saddam Hussein
and those countries who stood with the US against the Iraqi people. Why I don't
balme the US? Simply because we all know the agenda of the US in the region.
But can ou tell me why Saddam Hussein didn't know about such agenda? Could you
tell me how the hell Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt,... joined operation desert
storm? Wallaw I thought they were one arab people.
> There is absolutely no justification to starving children.
world. mitil ma bi'ul el masal man 7afara 7ufratun li akhi7 sa yaka3u fi7a.
Iraq, Yeman, Saudi Arabia,Egypt fell in that hole that they digged. And the
rest will follow. Too bad but this is life.
> - Rania, back from NY
SAMI ELKHAYRI
On 22 Jan 1996 qut...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
> So in your opinion, an arab will kill, rape, steal and distroy another
> arab country ? is this the real character of an arab !!!!
> Iraq chose to invade/occupy Kuwait and it paid a price for that action.
> And if you and Ms Masri realy care about the ordinary Iraqi citizen then
> you have to direct your attention and work on Saddam & his regime which
> is the main cause for the suffering of the Ordinary Iraqi.
>
> You are right that Iraq as a country is and will continue to be an arab
> country, but not Saddam's Iraq. Saddam's Iraq deserves no respect for
> what it has done and still doing to its people and neighbors.
>
>
> Salam
> Qutaiba
> --
Nobody said that what Iraq did to Kuwait is justified. But you know and I
know, the average Iraqi had nothing to say about it. If the west has a
problem with Saddam, they can find him in Baghdad. The people of Iraq are
paying a dear price for the mistakes of their (unelected) leader, whose
actions they can either OK, or go to hell (sometimes literally).
The stupid Americans thought the Iraqi people could remove Saddam from
power. How?! Iraq, after the Gulf War, had its Republican Guard, whose
sole function to to protect the all-mighty Saddam, fully intact. They're
the best equiped and the best trained (in Iraq). I am sure they have no
problem levelling villages Hama style if necessary.
So, the people of Iraq are in a situation they can't change, and paying
for a mistake that wasn't theirs to begin with. If you think that is
fair, I have nothing more to say to you.
BTW, Iraq is now in negotiations with the UN to start exporting oil for
goods (humanitarian I assume and hope), and the Iraqi dinar has had a
sharp rise against the US dollar. So things are looking up.
Salam,
Sami.
SAMI ELKHAYRI
On 23 Jan 1996, Shafrir Yinon wrote:
> Hey, didn't you hear about "popular revolution"? It worked in a lot of places :
> France, England, U.S.A and other places in the world that didn't like the
> regimes of dictators.
> In the arab world the term of "popular revolution" is merely replacing one
> dictator with another.
> People and nations get the leaders they deserve.
>
The french revolution received American support. I don't the English
ever overthrew any dictators. And the US received support from Louis XVI
whom they later helped overthrow. Boy you can really count on the
Americans to return a favour.
Arab revolutions are never "popular revolution". It's just one man, with
the support of a few military Generals, who decides to overthrow the current
regime and call his actions a "popular revolution". That's how Saddam
got into power.
As for people and nations getting the leaders that they deserve, I take
strong exception to that. Life is hardly ever fair, sir. What have the
poor Iraqi children done to DESERVE what's happening to them? What sin
did the Lebanese children commit to have to live (or die) through a
senseless civil war? I could give you more examples, but I think I've
made my point. The Iraqis don't deserve this.
Salam,
Sami.
Shafrir Yinon
>
>Nobody said that what Iraq did to Kuwait is justified. But you know and I
>know, the average Iraqi had nothing to say about it. If the west has a
>problem with Saddam, they can find him in Baghdad.
>The people of Iraq are
>paying a dear price for the mistakes of their (unelected) leader, whose
>actions they can either OK, or go to hell (sometimes literally).
As an ideal it might work. People and nations will not pay with their sons
lives for the stupidity
of their leaders. But how do you suggest to make sure that only the leader
will pay (espcially if he is a dictator) for his crimes? Send couple of guys to
the presidential palace, knock on the door and ask him
to accompany them to the nearest police station?
You can not seperate in that conditions between the nation and its leader.
>
>The stupid Americans thought the Iraqi people could remove Saddam from
>power. How?! Iraq, after the Gulf War, had its Republican Guard, whose
>sole function to to protect the all-mighty Saddam, fully intact. They're
>the best equiped and the best trained (in Iraq). I am sure they have no
>problem levelling villages Hama style if necessary.
>
Why do you think the americans are so stupid? They are not.
They didn't want Saddam to be replaced, since then there will be no
counterbalance to the iranian influence
in that region.
The americans know how to speak very eloquently about human rights when it
helps their goal.
They didn't help the Kurds in the north (they established the "protected zone"
not before Saddam forces wiped out some villages) and they didn't help the
Shiites in the south (They could supply them arms and military equipment, like
they did in afganistan and in Nickaragua)
They are not stupid. They're politicians......
>So, the people of Iraq are in a situation they can't change, and paying
>for a mistake that wasn't theirs to begin with. If you think that is
>fair, I have nothing more to say to you.
>
Hey, didn't you hear about "popular revolution"? It worked in a lot of places :
France, England, U.S.A and other places in the world that didn't like the
regimes of dictators.
In the arab world the term of "popular revolution" is merely replacing one
dictator with another.
People and nations get the leaders they deserve.
>BTW, Iraq is now in negotiations with the UN to start exporting oil for
>goods (humanitarian I assume and hope), and the Iraqi dinar has had a
>sharp rise against the US dollar. So things are looking up.
>
>Salam,
>
>Sami.
>
regards,
--
*********************************************************************
** Yinon Shafrir office: #318 (Science Center)
** Physics Dept. tel: (315)-268 3807
** Clarkson University E-mail: phy...@craft.clarkson.edu
** Potsdam N.Y 13699
*********************************************************************
Unnamed Law:
If it happens, it must be possible.
Haidar Mahdi
> As for your earlier comment about Iraq being kicked out of the Arab
> league, I would leave that for the Arabs to decide, since I doubt you
> consider yourself one. Iraq is and will always be an Arab country whose
> past, present and future is very closely tied to those of the rest of the
> Arab world. Don't forget, Iraq was once the center of the Arab and Muslim
> worlds.
This was not a reply to one of my posts but I feel I have to reply to it.
Iraq is approximately 80% Arab, my friend. The Kurds, Turkomans, Armenians,
and Ashooris alone must make up 20% of the population at least.
Saying Iraq is an Arab country does not give credit to our glorious past.
True, by 750 AD, at which time the Abbassids waved the black flags of revolt
in the Khurasan sky, Baghdad was founded. Called BAgh e DAD if I am not
mistaken, clearly not an arabic word. It was corrupted into the current
baghdad of today over time.
For many centuries BAgh e DAD was the center of the world, but my friend,
this was the Islamic world, and at 750, all those individuals arabized in
North Africa of today were Berbers and ethnic Egyptians. Many scholars and
other individuals of high merit flocked to BAgh e DAD, the imperial capital.
You must know the famous Iraqi family Al-Gailani, the original one came to
Iraq in the 11th century and was a Sufi Mystic if I am not mistaken. Iraq
itself was actually ruled by Persian Shahs in Iraq, you know Ctesiphone, near
the BAgh e DAD of today. The area was partly semitic speaking, partly farsi
speaking (center of the Persian empire), and partly arabic speaking to be
fair. People had most likely been flocking from Arabia to the great
agricultural land of Iraq for a little while.
Anyway, I have even been told of villages in the east of Iraq that had
Persian names even in this century that were recently changed to Arabian
ones. We come from a mixed civilization, my friend. We are all mixed. Not
all of us are pure arabs in Iraq. We must recognize that our past is still
in us. I warn you, do not take up the cause of the Arabist, or else we will
be stuck in their situation for ever. Let us rid ourselves of this extra
weight. We must promote our own Iraqi agenda and interest. We need to begin
thinking Iraqi, instead of Arab.. We must recognize who we are and stop
destroying each other for our differences. We must recognize our special
situation, and adjust, like other fair countries with large minorities.
with regards,
your brother in nationality,
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
Michel Najem
Sami El Khayri wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Michel Najem wrote:
>>
> The arab created for me a cause that is more hhonorable than any other cause.
>> The Lebanese cause.
>>
>> Michel
>>
>The Lebanese cause and the Arab cause are, at least in my point of view,
>the same. The Lebanese war was a civil war. The Syrians intervened to
>defend their interests, and so did Israel. If I'm not mistaken, the
>Palestinians defended Lebanon against Israel in 1982, but you people
>wanted them out, so they left. I know this is a hot point, but Syria also
>defended Lebanon (I suspect you strongly disagree). So don't say you were
>left to defend Lebanon on your own.
Second, the Palestininas never defended Lebanon in 82, it was bunch of
shiaa fighters who defended Beirut. Third Israel would have never invaded
Lebanon if the Palestininas didn't attack Israel from the Leabense soil.
They left in 82 after Israel invaded Beirut and while the Arab world watched.
And please don't tell me Syria defended Lebanon. Wlo those bombs who fell on
our heads came from the Syrian army, you call that defending Lebanon?
>As for singing and dancing while children died in Lebanon, you make it
>sound like we were cheering the slaughter. What did you expect the
>average Arab to do? It was Lebanese against Lebanese. The case is
>different in Iraq. Iraq is not in a civil war. Iraq is being mistreated
>by a foreign enemy.
Arab. Who did anyway? When it started it wasn't Lebanese against Lebanese.
It was Lebanese against Palestinians. No civil war in Iraq??? What about the
Shiaa in the South? What about the Kurds in the South? What about the Assyrians
for your earlier comment about Iraq being kicked out of the Arab
a civil war. Simply because you can't forever step on the head of your people
they will rise one day. Iraq is mistreated by the whole world because Saddam
Hussein gave them the chance to do that. IF a man in power makes a mistake
he must leave. It is night right that the hole population pay the price of his
mistake.
>league, I would leave that for the Arabs to decide, since I doubt you
>consider yourself one. Iraq is and will always be an Arab country whose
>past, present and future is very closely tied to those of the rest of the
>Arab world. Don't forget, Iraq was once the center of the Arab and Muslim
>worlds.
trust me I will leave the arabs alone but I hope that they leave me alone on
too.
True Iraq is an arab country but not as you portray it. He became an arab
country after they crushed the Christians, the shiaa, and the kurds in Iraq.
>Salam,
Allah ma3ak.
>Sami.
Michel.
Haidar Mahdi
> So in your opinion, an arab will kill, rape, steal and distroy another
> arab country ? is this the real character of an arab !!!!
> Iraq chose to invade/occupy Kuwait and it paid a price for that action.
Wrong again. Saddam invaded Kuwait, and the people are paying a price
for that.
> And if you and Ms Masri realy care about the ordinary Iraqi citizen then
> you have to direct your attention and work on Saddam & his regime which
> is the main cause for the suffering of the Ordinary Iraqi.
Actually, I think Ms. Masri really does care about the ordinary Iraqi
citizen, as I do. Do you want me to list members of my family killed for
being against the government? Is that what you want. Do you want to
hear of machine gunnings? See, you are not used to that violence, are
you. Well, that's what we Iraqis have been forced to realize. Political
dissent is squashed. Not only you, but your whole family.
>
> You are right that Iraq as a country is and will continue to be an arab
> country, but not Saddam's Iraq. Saddam's Iraq deserves no respect for
> what it has done and still doing to its people and neighbors.
You seem to contradict yourself here and are unclear. Iraq will be Iraq,
Iraq will always be great in my eyes. Its history buries the history of
the other arabs combined. Islam made the arabs somewhat respectable,
God, subhana wa ta'ala, gave them that, he gave them a great empire,
before that, they were nothing. The Persian and Byzantine empires did
not even bother conquering them. There was nothing there.
Uphold the truth.
Haidar Mahdi.
Harith Frangoul
> It is night right that the hole population pay the price of his
>mistake.
night? hole?
Haha..misho I guess I was right ha? ;-)
-Harith
maher
<X4...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> writes:
>
>Don't worry about it man you were kicked out from the league when more
>than five Arab countries teamed up with the United States to Kick your
>stupid arab leader ass.
>I heard that someone started collecting Infos. about you. By the way
>you look cute in the CTI class photo (1983) as you were standing by
Najwa
>Haddad. I told you don't mess with the best.
>
>Michel (known as Micho on IRC)
Are you trying to intimidate the guy you fart face? Fuck you and people
who look like you. He's not messing with the best. He's messing with an
ego maniac who probably won't have had the guts to open his mouth in
his own coutry, and comes to the U.S. and tries to intimidate people
from his own country. But hey, what do you expect from a guy who
changes his name to feel like he belongs in this country. A guy without
an identity and therefore dignity ?
As for the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee (AADC), if they
truely didn't invite Iraq then they should change their name to the
Gulf American-Wanna-be Anti-Arab Committee.
Harith Frangoul
>Are you trying to intimidate the guy you fart face? Fuck you and people
>who look like you. He's not messing with the best. He's messing with an
>ego maniac who probably won't have had the guts to open his mouth in
>his own coutry, and comes to the U.S. and tries to intimidate people
>from his own country. But hey, what do you expect from a guy who
>changes his name to feel like he belongs in this country. A guy without
>an identity and therefore dignity ?
>
>As for the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee (AADC), if they
>truely didn't invite Iraq then they should change their name to the
>Gulf American-Wanna-be Anti-Arab Committee.
>
Thank you for defending me.
I don;t think it is worth it to reply to such a person.
He is an uneducated, low class person. I have seen a lot of his type.
As for the ADC meeting...I got an email from them and here it is:
Dear Mr. Frangoul:
Thank you for your e-mail regarding ADC's upcoming National Convention.
We must emphasize, however, that the information that we have released so
far about the convention is only preliminary. We are still working on
finalizing panels and speakers.
We regret your angry tone, but we are in fact putting together a panel
discussion on Iraq, the impact of the UN embargo and the abysmal
humanitarian conditions after the Gulf War. The plight of the Iraqi
people has always been a crucial issue to ADC and its members. I invite
you to look for coverage about Iraq in the upcoming issue of our
newsletter, the ADC Times (Feb.1996).
In future advertising about our upcoming national convention, we expect
most panel topics to be finalized -- and one of them will be about Iraq.
We hope you will join us in discussing the situation in Iraq and ways we
can help alleviate the people's suffering.
Thank you for taking the time to make your opinion known to us. We
welcome input and feedback from our members, supporters and even critics.
Best regards.
4201 Connecticut Ave., N.W.; Suite 500
Washington, D.C. 20008, U.S.A.
(202) 244-2990, (202) 244-3196 (telefax)
(e-mail: a...@adc.org, http://www.adc.org/adc/)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Now This was their reply. However, I doubt they are serious about the
matter. Well, I didn't mention that some congress men will be the
guests of the panel. So most probably they will end up with a report
that emphasizes the importance of the continuation of the embargo
singing the American song of: Implementation of UN resolutions...
Anyways, I have removed the soc.culture.lebanon from the post list
just to avoid my mailbox from being flooded with all that stupid
so called "etiquete" against what is called cross-posting responses.
I don't know who invented that bizare policy...it is just unjustifiable.
I'm still getting those warning emails although I only posted twice.
I got about 10 emails from the same stupid person. They are
automated and because he is so lame he can't even automate them
correctly.
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
<31048C...@faraday.clas.virginia.edu>
Distribution:
Haidar Mahdi (ht...@faraday.clas.virginia.edu) wrote:
: Wrong again. Saddam invaded Kuwait, and the people are paying a price
: for that.
I agree that the ordinary Iraqi is paying the price, but also you have to
remember that not just Saddam who invaded there was a big army behinde him.
: Actually, I think Ms. Masri really does care about the ordinary Iraqi
: citizen, as I do. Do you want me to list members of my family killed for
: being against the government? Is that what you want. Do you want to
: hear of machine gunnings? See, you are not used to that violence, are
: you. Well, that's what we Iraqis have been forced to realize. Political
: dissent is squashed. Not only you, but your whole family.
As for Rania, well she never ever showed her position on the Iraqi regime
& Saddam !! she never addressed the main reason for the Iraqi suffereing
which is the Iraqi regime !!
As for you I feel your suffering, and believe me I know what goes on in
Iraq and what it means to be occupied by people like your regime. I
belive the Iraqis are occupied by the Iraqi regime and should be liberated.
But who should carry this liberation ??
And I don't believe that lefting the UN Sanctions will realy help the
ordinary Iraqi, it will mainly help Saddam & his suporters.
: >
: > You are right that Iraq as a country is and will continue to be an arab
: > country, but not Saddam's Iraq. Saddam's Iraq deserves no respect for
: > what it has done and still doing to its people and neighbors.
: You seem to contradict yourself here and are unclear. Iraq will be Iraq,
I don't see how I am contradicting myself ??
What I said is that if Saddam & his regime are the real representitives
of Iraq, then this Iraq deserves no respect.
Now are you saying that this is the case !!!!!!!!!
: Iraq will always be great in my eyes. Its history buries the history of
: the other arabs combined. Islam made the arabs somewhat respectable,
I have nothing against that, but what did this history do to us now ?
till when are we going to continue this argument about the past and how
we were strong and the best, and do nothing about the present ???
Its the same with all arabs in general, we always talk about the past and
how we were this and thatt, yet we never address our present problems and
disgusting position in the world !!!!!! are we going to do something
about it ????
: God, subhana wa ta'ala, gave them that, he gave them a great empire,
: before that, they were nothing. The Persian and Byzantine empires did
: not even bother conquering them. There was nothing there.
And God took it from us...Why ? isn't it becaues of the pathetic figures
that we support and keep ... its us who keep a leader and its us who get
rid of him, we just have to have faith and courage.
OCEANS APART DAY AFTER DAY
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, SAMI ELKHAYRI wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Michel Najem wrote:
>
> >
> > The arab created for me a cause that is more hhonorable than any other cause.
> > The Lebanese cause.
> >
> > Michel
> >
> Michel,
>
> The Lebanese cause and the Arab cause are, at least in my point of view,
> the same. The Lebanese war was a civil war. The Syrians intervened to
> defend their interests, and so did Israel. If I'm not mistaken, the
> Palestinians defended Lebanon against Israel in 1982, but you people
> wanted them out, so they left. I know this is a hot point, but Syria also
> defended Lebanon (I suspect you strongly disagree). So don't say you were
> left to defend Lebanon on your own.
>
> As for singing and dancing while children died in Lebanon, you make it
> sound like we were cheering the slaughter. What did you expect the
> average Arab to do? It was Lebanese against Lebanese. The case is
> different in Iraq. Iraq is not in a civil war. Iraq is being mistreated
> by a foreign enemy.
>
> As for your earlier comment about Iraq being kicked out of the Arab
> league, I would leave that for the Arabs to decide, since I doubt you
> consider yourself one. Iraq is and will always be an Arab country whose
> past, present and future is very closely tied to those of the rest of the
> Arab world. Don't forget, Iraq was once the center of the Arab and Muslim
> worlds.
>
> Salam,
>
> Sami.
>
>
I think the arab media is doing a very good job in hiding the facts
around the middle east. Syria intervened to defend the interests of
Lebanon I hardly think so. The Syrians invaded Lebanon with thousands of
troops unofficially when the Lebanese army went to attack the PLO,
because the Syrians did not want the PLO dismantled they were useful to
Hafez, because they were fighting Israel for him and keeping them busy.
The PLO and the Palestinians were by no means on good behaviour in there
stay in Lebanon and there is ample evidence. The PLO behaved as they did
in Lebanon as they did in Jordan as gangster infringing upon the
sovereignty of their host nation. They began to act like certain parts of
Lebanon were their country. The Israelis entered Lebanon to take care of
them because Lebanon due to outside pressure could not take care of the
Palestinians in 1975. Why did the tragedy of Sabra and Chattile befall
the Palestians one must ask. Such a horrible tragedy committed by a
militia group that once under Pierre Gemayel welcomed the Palestinians
now with hatred wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth. The PLO
cooperated with groups against the government of Lebanon... Just like
when in Jordan they arrogantly walked with machine guns and jeered the
bedouin guards of King Hussein until he gave the orders to have his elite
force to humble the forces of George Habash and Arafat. I do not
understand how can anyone expect the Lebanese to fight invading Syrians
and the PLO. The fact is Arafat is the one who helped ignite the mess and
bring both Israel and Syria into this picture... Of course, this in no
way excuses Syria from being any less guilty.
As far as Iraq, well what about those news broadcasts I have seen daily.
The enemy to Iraq is not the US. It is its own leader and his sacrificing
of his people for his greed. Had Iraq not committed itself to usurping
the land of Kuwait and committing atrocities there they would not be in
such a predicament. Iraq had a promising future before the mad adventure
their leader emarked upon. One thing, I think Iraq should like Jordan is
doing on its welfare as a country trying to bring dignity to its people
within its own context and identity and face the fact that its so called
Arab sister neighbours in the Gulf have no love for them and that they
could have a bright future that they were showing but then skillfuly
destroyed just like Iran. ------------------------------Basil-
Michel Najem
>In <96021.00...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Michel Najem
><X4...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> writes:
>Are you trying to intimidate the guy you fart face? Fuck you and people
>who look like you. He's not messing with the best. He's messing with an
>ego maniac who probably won't have had the guts to open his mouth in
>his own coutry, and comes to the U.S. and tries to intimidate people
>from his own country. But hey, what do you expect from a guy who
>changes his name to feel like he belongs in this country. A guy without
>an identity and therefore dignity ?
I waste my time with a young man who learned three new words in English:
"Fart", "Face" and "Fuck". But I decided to answer the other points that
you raised. Well my son I have the guts trust me to speak whatever I want
to say in my country. You want to bet on that? Then who told you that I am
trying to intimidate him? He knows very well what I mean. It is a long story
between me and him and I told him if he want to discuss it he might give me
a call or a visit. Ba3den ya habub who told you he is from my country? Well
guess what he is not. If you stoped there we could have said that he made a
mistake but to say that I changed my name that shows your ignorance and
stupidity. Ya3ne if I have a name different than Maher, taher, Ali, Muhamad,
Mustafa,.... means I changed my name? Wlik open your eyes wlo and get some
education and stop looking in one direction. As for the identity issue ya haram
lek wein ba3dak. 20 years of war in Lebanon to save the identity and you
tell me that I don't have one because of my name? Ruh allah yihdik wi ynawrak
bi hal sha7er el mubarak.
>As for the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee (AADC), if they
>truely didn't invite Iraq then they should change their name to the
>Gulf American-Wanna-be Anti-Arab Committee.
Don't worry next time you could say what is your name i will not tell you
what school you went to and what is your identity.
Michel Michel (2 times barke bi ghut 3ala albo)
Khalifa Jallad
On 29 Jan 1996 qut...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
> <31048C...@faraday.clas.virginia.edu>
> Distribution:
> Haidar Mahdi (ht...@faraday.clas.virginia.edu) wrote:
>
> : Wrong again. Saddam invaded Kuwait, and the people are paying a price
> : for that.
>
> I agree that the ordinary Iraqi is paying the price, but also you have to
> remember that not just Saddam who invaded there was a big army behinde him.
Haidar, please understand all the 3rab feel with the good people of
IRAQ... please never think for a moment that WE are not with you.
However like all aYrab nations... "in Allaha la ughayir ma biqawmin hata
ughayiru ma bi-anfusihim". No question Saddam is the evil one... the sad
part is, the neighboring 3rab regimes are making the 'babies' pay for his
CRIME. And we the neighboring 3rab pepole may be the 'big army' behind the
destruction of the Iraqi babies--and sadly *deny* it.
> And I don't believe that lefting the UN Sanctions will realy help the
> ordinary Iraqi, it will mainly help Saddam & his suporters.
Qutaiba, it may NOT solve the problem... but goods will ultimately
trickle down to the good people of IRAQ. They won't be happy, but they
will live. UN sanctions will NOT remove Saddam...? for a LARGE army
failed the task years ago.
America & allies couldn't rid itself of Saddam... why demand it of the
poor people... by starving them?
Salam,
Khalifa
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: What is the army going to do? Are they going to disobey him and face death,
: come on, nobody is going to do that.
How does revolution take place ? how come some ( very minority )
did stand up and disobey ?.. if everyone unite and stand up together
then Saddam & his regime can't continue.
So I am curious to know what is your vision on how can the Iraqis get thier
freedom from this regime ? If you are not going to stand up to it and
face whatever consequences, how can you gain your rightfull freedom ?
Someone has to do it for your future generation and nothing comes easy !
Saddam isn't the 1st dictator in the world and yet others did manage to
get rid of their dictators, look at Romania as an example their leader
was worse than Saddam yet the people stood up one day and got rid of him.
: The Islamic Republic of Iran. I support an Islamic state. If you listen to
: the late Ayatollah Al-Sadr and how he did not blame the anti-Shi'i atrocities
: on Sunnism, even though the rulers claim they are Sunni. We need an Islamic
: rule. Secular arabism ruined us.
Well I agree on an Islamic rule but I am not sure about some of the
present " Islamic leaders". There are alot of organizations and groups
who use Isalm for their own hidden agendas and I can't trust them to be
better than someone like Saddam.
: Partly right, partly wrong. It puts people like me in a strange situation.
: If the sanctions get lifted, Saddam will benefit, but the Iraqi people will
: as well, so it is a bit tough.
I agree, but people who don't revolte under very hard conditions will
never do under better conditions. So how can Iraq get rid of this regime ?
And how can a person be alive when all he/she does is eat/work/sleep !!
is this realy life ? when I can't open my mouth except for food ? its
like a dead person in a living body...for me if I can't speak out and be
free then I would rather be dead than alive.
: Wrong, that is exactly what I do and I'm practically the only one who does
: that. Power is not what the Iraqis want or need. They just want to live. I
Here is the question again, what does "live" exactly mean ?
Am I alive if I can eat, work and sleep ? am I alive if I can't say
whatever I want in my country among my people ? am I alive if I can't
show my opinion on things which affects my future ? am I alive if I can't
even speak infront of my brother or father or any relative ?
Is this realy the life that you are looking for ?
: religion will give us power. If we forget Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, we will
: be damned and unsuccessful for all time.
That is why we are where we are now !!! and other thing, and I hope you
will not be offended by this, didn't god show that if you allow a
dictator to rule you and you don't stand against him then you deserve
this dictator ?
: Whatever happens is what Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, wills.
Exactly, but you have to remember that we take decisions on things and we
choose. God gave us choises and gave us brains, and at the end its our
choise and decision.
Salam
Qutaiba
Haidar Mahdi
> I agree that the ordinary Iraqi is paying the price, but also you have to
> remember that not just Saddam who invaded there was a big army behinde him.
What is the army going to do? Are they going to disobey him and face death,
come on, nobody is going to do that.
> As for you I feel your suffering, and believe me I know what goes on in
> Iraq and what it means to be occupied by people like your regime. I
> belive the Iraqis are occupied by the Iraqi regime and should be liberated.
> But who should carry this liberation ??
The Islamic Republic of Iran. I support an Islamic state. If you listen to
the late Ayatollah Al-Sadr and how he did not blame the anti-Shi'i atrocities
on Sunnism, even though the rulers claim they are Sunni. We need an Islamic
rule. Secular arabism ruined us.
> And I don't believe that lefting the UN Sanctions will realy help the
> ordinary Iraqi, it will mainly help Saddam & his suporters.
Partly right, partly wrong. It puts people like me in a strange situation.
If the sanctions get lifted, Saddam will benefit, but the Iraqi people will
as well, so it is a bit tough.
> I have nothing against that, but what did this history do to us now ?
> till when are we going to continue this argument about the past and how
> we were strong and the best, and do nothing about the present ???
> Its the same with all arabs in general, we always talk about the past and
> how we were this and thatt, yet we never address our present problems and
> disgusting position in the world !!!!!! are we going to do something
> about it ????
Wrong, that is exactly what I do and I'm practically the only one who does
that. Power is not what the Iraqis want or need. They just want to live. I
do not support Iraq even to have a military. It does not need one. Our
religion will give us power. If we forget Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, we will
be damned and unsuccessful for all time.
> And God took it from us...Why ? isn't it becaues of the pathetic figures
> that we support and keep ... its us who keep a leader and its us who get
> rid of him, we just have to have faith and courage.
Faith and courage. It is not that simple.
Whatever happens is what Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, wills.
Down with red, white, green, and black.
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
Haidar Mahdi
> How does revolution take place ? how come some ( very minority )
> did stand up and disobey ?.. if everyone unite and stand up together
> then Saddam & his regime can't continue.
You are not seeing something. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died in
this way before. We know from the example. How many died in the french
revolution? Surely not as many as did in the Shi'i revolution.
> So I am curious to know what is your vision on how can the Iraqis get thier
> freedom from this regime ? If you are not going to stand up to it and
> face whatever consequences, how can you gain your rightfull freedom ?
> Someone has to do it for your future generation and nothing comes easy !
> Saddam isn't the 1st dictator in the world and yet others did manage to
> get rid of their dictators, look at Romania as an example their leader
> was worse than Saddam yet the people stood up one day and got rid of him.
There is no leader on this earth worse than Saddam. We are not just dealing
with Saddam here. We are dealing with the world's grip on the Iraqi people.
Saddam is a dictator working for the United States, it's that simple. I will
reiterate, many have died standing up to Saddam to the point that the
organized opposition is finished.
> Well I agree on an Islamic rule but I am not sure about some of the
> present " Islamic leaders". There are alot of organizations and groups
> who use Isalm for their own hidden agendas and I can't trust them to be
> better than someone like Saddam.
Question? What is it of your business? Where are your familial ties to Iraq
and its people? I don't want to sound harsh but if arabs like you really
cared about Iraq then you would not have attacked us in the gulf war, very
simple. Plus, you would have helped us in our 1991 revolt. Instead, you
arabs helped put down our revolt. Don't try to act like you care when your
people contribute to the suffering of Iraqis.
> That is why we are where we are now !!! and other thing, and I hope you
> will not be offended by this, didn't god show that if you allow a
> dictator to rule you and you don't stand against him then you deserve
> this dictator ?
I will reiterate, we have tried many times to remove this dictator. Many
have been killed. I will suggest Kanan Makiyya's "Republic of Fear" and
Joyce Wiley's "The Islamic Movement of Iraqi Shi'as."
It is very easy for you to go on about how we deserve Saddam and we should
remove him and we are lazy complainers but when you get put into a situation
like all of our relatives, you will realize how difficult it is.
I know how you think, I used to think like you until I grew up and talked to
my relatives and read about the regime.
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: Question? What is it of your business? Where are your familial ties to Iraq
Ok, its true its not my business to interfer and no one else has the
right to do so except the Iraqis. But if the actions of your country
affects me then it becomes my business and I have the right to interfer.
Iraq for Iraqis, and when you have a government like the one you have
now, which keeps attacking its neighbors then don't expect those
neighbors not to do anything about it. Ok...you have to remember that
Iraq is the one who attacked its neighbors and Iraq started the war.
: and its people? I don't want to sound harsh but if arabs like you really
: cared about Iraq then you would not have attacked us in the gulf war, very
"Attacked us in the gulf war " ?????? what do you mean...we Kuwaitis were
occupied by your country, what did you expect us to do??????? Iraq is the
country which started the war !!! and how can you pick and choose the one
who is with Saddam and one who is not !!!!! Its a war that was started by
Iraq. Its true that alot of innocent people died but on both sides, and
the truth is that its Iraq who started it and chose to invade and occupy.
: simple. Plus, you would have helped us in our 1991 revolt. Instead, you
: arabs helped put down our revolt. Don't try to act like you care when your
: people contribute to the suffering of Iraqis.
Who do you mean by arabs here, because we Kuwaitis couldn't have helped
in anyway , we were just out of occupation.
Also I am curious to understand how you claim that the arabs contributed
to the suffering of Iraqis ??
: I will reiterate, we have tried many times to remove this dictator. Many
: have been killed. I will suggest Kanan Makiyya's "Republic of Fear" and
: Joyce Wiley's "The Islamic Movement of Iraqi Shi'as."
I have read Kanan's book, which is a great one. But I don't see your point.
I didn't question the efforts made to remove Saddam & his regime, but
they have to continue. You can't say oh I tried but couldn't so thats it !!
Its your future and your children's future we are talking about here.
Again as you have mentioned before, its non of my business, if you don't
want to get rid of saddam that is your business. But then you have to
take the consequences of his regime's actions.
: It is very easy for you to go on about how we deserve Saddam and we should
: remove him and we are lazy complainers but when you get put into a situation
: like all of our relatives, you will realize how difficult it is.
No, I understand that its difficult but the difficulty shouldn't stop
people from working on removing him. Because it should happen for your
sake and your families.
: I know how you think, I used to think like you until I grew up and talked to
: my relatives and read about the regime.
Well believe me I know alot about your regime and know what goes on in Iraq.
Salam
Qutaiba
Wael Masri
MaraHeb.
Harith, Maher, and all others should learn more about the ADC's past
and present before jumping to wrong judgements against it. For
example, did you know that the ADC was the major Arab-American
organization that, in 1990/91, ignored the calls of the sheikdoms and
vigorously opposed the U.S.-led war against Iraq? And what do you
think the ADC get for its principled stand? Answer: no more money from
the Gulf and now cricitism from the very people who it sought to
protect.
Having attended the last 3 ADC National Conventions, I can tell you
that lifting the blockade was a strong concern raised each time there.
At last year's convention, the outgoing ADC chairman proudly
reiterated how the ADC (almost alone in the U.S.) loudly opposed, and
continues to oppose, the U.S.-led war(s) against Iraq.
As for your last comment below about Congressmen being invited to
participate in the panel, two points need to be made here:
1. These Congressmen could be Arab-American who oppose the blockade.
2. Regardless of the statements of these Congressmen, there is no
sign that the ADC's well-established position in favor of lifting the
blockade will change.
Please do more research next time before jumping to wrong conclusions
and making accusations against people. Oh yes, and try to work WITH
people instead of against them. Begin by supporting the ADC and other
organizations that are striving to lift the blockade on Iraq.
Sincerely,
Wa'el
Harith Frangoul <har...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
>mah...@ix.netcom.com(maher ) wrote:
>>
>>As for the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee (AADC), if they
>>truely didn't invite Iraq then they should change their name to the
>>Gulf American-Wanna-be Anti-Arab Committee.
>>
>As for the ADC meeting...I got an email from them and here it is:
olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu
On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Haidar Mahdi wrote:
> qut...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
>
> Saddam is a dictator working for the United States, it's that simple.
This contention requires satisfactory evidence. So, how did you conclude
that?
> .................I don't want to sound harsh but if arabs like you really
> cared about Iraq then you would not have attacked us in the gulf war, very
> simple. Plus, you would have helped us in our 1991 revolt. Instead, you
> arabs helped put down our revolt. Don't try to act like you care when your
> people contribute to the suffering of Iraqis.
Here we go again: You are indicting all the Arabs (approx. 200 million)
for the action of the few, the elite and the most powerful. Please
re-evaluate your whole-sale charges against the Arabs especially
when the Iraqi rulers, army and the opposition groups are not innocent.
salam,
Muhammad
HarpTalker
:: Haidar Mahdi (ht...@faraday.clas.virginia.edu) wrote:
:: Question? What is it of your business?
:: Where are your familial ties to Iraq…
>> OK, its true its not my business to interfere and no one
>> else has the right to do so except the Iraqis. But if the
>> actions of your country affects me then it becomes my
>> business and I have the right to interfere. Iraq for Iraqis,
>> and when you have a government like the one you have
>> now, which keeps attacking its neighbors then don't
>> expect those neighbors not to do anything about it.
>> OK... you have to remember that Iraq is the one who
>> attacked its neighbors and Iraq started the war.
IRAQ DID NOT START THE WAR ALONE!!!!!!!
The actions of IRAQ’s government before the infamous invasion of August
1990 was not a mystery to the rest of the ARABS and definitely was not so
ambiguous to the rest of the civilized world community. Attacking IRAQ’s
neighbors (namely IRAN) was supported and endorsed by the ALSABAH family
and others elsewhere all along from day one of that war. Your Zoo Keepers
are as much responsible and damn right guilty by association with SHT for
what ever atrocities the Iraqi thugs (not all Iraqis) committed against
humanity during these Gulf wars.
AND NOW YOU ASK US FOR COMPENSATIONS?
Iraq is one of the few ARAB countries which tried to rely on its self and
tried to become a less dependent state on outside sources (unlike almost
all of the gulf states who rely heavily on outsiders to conduct their
daily business even the simplest basic necessities of life) but this meant
Iraq becoming a regional power and turning into a big threat to almost all
the other well established industrialized nations who wanted to monopolize
the market and saw RISING Iraq as a real problem to their world dominance.
For Example Iraq’s entrance in 1989 into the Space race (in the civilian
sector of launching satellites as the number ten world contender) sent a
shocking wave to almost all of the other countries and gave Israel the
shivers.
IRAQ HAD TO BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!
:: and its people? I don't want to sound harsh but if Arabs
:: like you really cared about Iraq then you would not have
:: attacked us in the gulf war, very
>> "Attacked us in the gulf war " ?????? what do you
>> mean...we Kuwaitis were occupied by your country,
>> what did you expect us to do??????? Iraq is the
>> country which started the war !!! and how can you
>> pick and choose the one who is with Saddam and
>> one who is not !!!!! Its a war that was started by
>> Iraq. Its true that a lot of innocent people died but
>> on both sides, and the truth is that its Iraq who
>> started it and chose to invade and occupy.
The invasion was a direct result of ALSABAHs’ actions for supporting the
evil SHT during the first Gulf war by turning their support to the
dictator into cheat and retreat and tried to back stab the Iraqis and
steal their oil (horizontally) from the Iraqi RUMAILA oil fields well
inside the Iraqi border. They (your government that is) was also aware of
the fact that Iraq was just out of a long exhausting eight years of war
with their (and your) enemies. These economical intimidation, other
personal insults and other twist and turn deeds by your government (which
actually received these orders from overseas to go ahead and strangulate
Iraq’s rebuilding effort in May of 1990 three months before August of
1990) caused the well known disasters and asked them (your losers) to try
to STOP the Iraqis’ quest of becoming a regional super power at all costs
lead to the infamous invasion.
>> Again as you have mentioned before, its non of my
>> business, if you don't want to get rid of Saddam that
>> is your business. But then you have to take the
>> consequences of his regime's actions.
Same argument is valid when compared to the Zoo Keepers.
>> Well believe me I know a lot about your regime
>> and know what goes on in Iraq.
So what are you going to do?
NOTHING FOR SURE!!!!
NO JUSTICE NO PEACE
OCEANS APART DAY AFTER DAY
On 28 Jan 1996, maher wrote:
> In <96021.00...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Michel Najem
> <X4...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> writes:
>
> >
> >Don't worry about it man you were kicked out from the league when more
> >than five Arab countries teamed up with the United States to Kick your
> >stupid arab leader ass.
> >I heard that someone started collecting Infos. about you. By the way
> >you look cute in the CTI class photo (1983) as you were standing by
> Najwa
> >Haddad. I told you don't mess with the best.
> >
> >Michel (known as Micho on IRC)
>
> Are you trying to intimidate the guy you fart face? Fuck you and people
> who look like you. He's not messing with the best. He's messing with an
> ego maniac who probably won't have had the guts to open his mouth in
> his own coutry, and comes to the U.S. and tries to intimidate people
> from his own country. But hey, what do you expect from a guy who
> changes his name to feel like he belongs in this country. A guy without
> an identity and therefore dignity ?
>
> As for the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee (AADC), if they
> truely didn't invite Iraq then they should change their name to the
> Gulf American-Wanna-be Anti-Arab Committee.
>
Hey who are you calling fart face? You just insulted my friend. Actually,
you insulted yourself even more by your statements. I know Micho has
more guts then you do and I know he would open his mouth. He does not
try to intimidate people. He speaks his mind. And if you know anything,
you would know he has not changed his name to suit America. What kind of
ignorant statement is that? Michel is a common name in the Lebanon and
many Egyptians also go by that name and some Syrians... Duh! Micho is
also a diminutive form of Michel just like Russians might use Mikha for
Mikha'il. Maybe Micho did use a little colourful vocabulary but the
person he responded to probably went way overboard and anyways Saddam
Hussein is not someone people should get pissed off for. If he is
insulted and they are chagrined by it then they believe the man has some
dignity and is worthy of pride in his country.
As far as the AADC I am not going to defend those guys, because they are
of no concern to me. However, this situation is understandable. Look at
Africa for example they have banned Nigeria from many things due to the
human rights abuses committed by the dictatorship there. However, since
this is not a world organization and is supposed to protect Iraqis from
discrimination then perhaps they have gone beyond reasonable bounds.
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: and others elsewhere all along from day one of that war. Your Zoo Keepers
I see that you are very respectfull and full of sunbstance !!! and your
post deserves alot of respect !!!!
: are as much responsible and damn right guilty by association with SHT for
: what ever atrocities the Iraqi thugs (not all Iraqis) committed against
: humanity during these Gulf wars.
Who fought Saddam's Wars ?
: AND NOW YOU ASK US FOR COMPENSATIONS?
Well you are responsible for your own actions.
: Iraq is one of the few ARAB countries which tried to rely on its self and
: tried to become a less dependent state on outside sources (unlike almost
Oh yeh ....we can see how independent you !!! and we saw that during your
wars !!!
: all of the gulf states who rely heavily on outsiders to conduct their
: daily business even the simplest basic necessities of life) but this meant
Can you provide me with your evidences please...
: Iraq becoming a regional power and turning into a big threat to almost all
: the other well established industrialized nations who wanted to monopolize
: the market and saw RISING Iraq as a real problem to their world dominance.
Yeehh we the arabs always think that we are this super Giant power that
everyone in the world fears !!!! Look around you my friend and see the
world and see where we are !!! wake up...... and try to see your mistakes
and change them...( you here I mean all the arabs ) then you will be able
to move forward. But if we continue to believe that we are superior !!
then we will bever make it ....
: For Example Iraq’s entrance in 1989 into the Space race (in the civilian
: sector of launching satellites as the number ten world contender) sent a
: shocking wave to almost all of the other countries and gave Israel the
: shivers.
Ohh realy can you give us information about this please !!! what space
program !!!
: IRAQ HAD TO BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!
Ohh man....how paranoide are we !!!!
: The invasion was a direct result of ALSABAHs’ actions for supporting the
: evil SHT during the first Gulf war by turning their support to the
: dictator into cheat and retreat and tried to back stab the Iraqis and
: steal their oil (horizontally) from the Iraqi RUMAILA oil fields well
: inside the Iraqi border. They (your government that is) was also aware of
: the fact that Iraq was just out of a long exhausting eight years of war
: with their (and your) enemies. These economical intimidation, other
: personal insults and other twist and turn deeds by your government (which
: actually received these orders from overseas to go ahead and strangulate
: Iraq’s rebuilding effort in May of 1990 three months before August of
: 1990) caused the well known disasters and asked them (your losers) to try
: to STOP the Iraqis’ quest of becoming a regional super power at all costs
: lead to the infamous invasion.
These are all the Iraqi regime lies, all that you have to do is go and
read ,OK. Go and get the letters that your own government sent tto the
arab leage and you will see what Iraq's intentions were. You need to know
what took place in the meeting in Jeddah to understand what Iraq's
intentions were !!!
Also it wasn't Saddam who invaded and occupied, it was an army of your
soldiers....do I need to mention the numbers !!!!
: Same argument is valid when compared to the Zoo Keepers.
Ahh here we go again with your very intelligent argument !! how revealing !!
: So what are you going to do?
: NOTHING FOR SURE!!!!
!!! well funny this is coming from you !!! I don't see you doing anything
for your own country & people !!
I can see how brave you are !!!
Qutaiba
Haidar Mahdi
> Yeehh we the arabs always think that we are this super Giant power that
> everyone in the world fears !!!! Look around you my friend and see the
> world and see where we are !!! wake up...... and try to see your mistakes
> and change them...( you here I mean all the arabs ) then you will be able
> to move forward. But if we continue to believe that we are superior !!
> then we will bever make it ....
Well, I don't know about all the arabs, but in Kuwait you guys think you are
something special. Unless you have never visited your nation, you will
realize that is is just like the west. They have everything there
materialistically. They are a welfare state that provides everything for its
people with a black liquid that oozes out of the earth. You are also best
friends with America so you do think you are something. You think the whole
world will protect you because they care about you. They just want to make
sure that you sell all your oil to them nice and cheap, cheaper than spring
water.
What is this we business? I, as an Iraqi, am not moving anywhere with you.
That is my whole argument and has been my whole argument. We keep getting
stuck with you guys. You, in Kuwait, will never be anything. Kuwait will
always be an artificial country. I am sorry if this hurts but this is the
truth. You are not industrializing in anything other than the petrochemical
industry and I don't know even if you are doing that. You are not expanding.
See, Qutaiba, a smart Arab will use this money that he gets from oil to help
his country industrialize and improve its non-petroleum based economy, which
makes up barely any of the income that the Al-Sabah family gets.
> Also it wasn't Saddam who invaded and occupied, it was an army of your
> soldiers....do I need to mention the numbers !!!!
Do I need to mention the numbers of how many Iraqi soldiers chose not to
fight for Saddam?????
Fight for truth
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
Haidar Mahdi
> Is that a fact !!! where did you get these ideas please !!!!
> Go and do some reading and search for facts instead of starting this
> stereo type, generalizing arguments !!!
The fact is that you were defended not in order to protect your national
sovereignty, but indeed you were protected for the sole purpose of securing
oil supplies for a very long period of time.
> here we go again !!! what do you mean "you" ? and please don't worry
> about us in Kuwait...just worry about your future. Thank God that its
> not up to you whether we will/won't be anything in the future !!
The reason why I am generalizing about Kuwaitis is:
1) There is not much opposition to the ruling Al-Sabah family.
2) You come from a welfare state, therefore people are content (which adds
to my right to generalize)
3) The population is so small.
> Well sorry to say this, but you saying this doesn't make it the "truth" !!
> its just your own opinion and it doesn't realy mean anything .
That was very nice of you. If my opinion doesn't mean anything, then why
have you been posting all these messages to me back and forth? Why do you
care then?
> : Do I need to mention the numbers of how many Iraqi soldiers chose not to
> : fight for Saddam?????
>
> Please do !! because I am curious to know your !! numbers.
Have you never read anything or seen any documentaries on the war fought for
the securing of your oil? In some organizational military activites up to
99% of the soldiers did not fight. Believe this or not but this is a
characteristic of a noble people who do not want to fight an unnecessary war.
> : Fight for truth
>
> Again great words, but I wounder what "truth" are we talking about here !!!
There is only one truth.
> Salam
> Qutaiba
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: Well, I don't know about all the arabs, but in Kuwait you guys think you are
: something special. Unless you have never visited your nation, you will
What is this "You" stuff !!! are you generalizing here ?
because this generalizing kind of argument can work against anybody !!!
: people with a black liquid that oozes out of the earth. You are also best
: friends with America so you do think you are something. You think the whole
: world will protect you because they care about you. They just want to make
: sure that you sell all your oil to them nice and cheap, cheaper than spring
: water.
Is that a fact !!! where did you get these ideas please !!!!
Go and do some reading and search for facts instead of starting this
stereo type, generalizing arguments !!!
Also if am not mistaken doesn't Iraq have this so called "black liquid" ???
: What is this we business? I, as an Iraqi, am not moving anywhere with you.
well you don't have to be an arab if you don't want to !!!
: That is my whole argument and has been my whole argument. We keep getting
: stuck with you guys. You, in Kuwait, will never be anything. Kuwait will
here we go again !!! what do you mean "you" ? and please don't worry
about us in Kuwait...just worry about your future. Thank God that its
not up to you whether we will/won't be anything in the future !!
: always be an artificial country. I am sorry if this hurts but this is the
: truth. You are not industrializing in anything other than the petrochemical
Well sorry to say this, but you saying this doesn't make it the "truth" !!
its just your own opinion and it doesn't realy mean anything .
: industry and I don't know even if you are doing that. You are not
:expanding.
: See, Qutaiba, a smart Arab will use this money that he gets from oil to help
: his country industrialize and improve its non-petroleum based economy, which
: makes up barely any of the income that the Al-Sabah family gets.
ohh I can see that you are very ignorant about Kuwait.
I am not going to start an argument about Kuwait and what we do other
than sell Oil, and what we do with the oil revenues,because its not the
thread. We can start a new thread about that and I can tell you the
facts, which you can go and check ( if you are interested !).
: Do I need to mention the numbers of how many Iraqi soldiers chose not to
: fight for Saddam?????
Please do !! because I am curious to know your !! numbers.
: Fight for truth
Again great words, but I wounder what "truth" are we talking about here !!!
Salam
Qutaiba
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: The fact is that you were defended not in order to protect your national
: sovereignty, but indeed you were protected for the sole purpose of securing
: oil supplies for a very long period of time.
No one argued against that !!! But this is called world politics of
interest my friend. Every country in the world plays it...nothing
emotional and it involves no feelings.
Now if I am not mistaken...but doesn't Iraq have oil as well !!!! and
they had interest in Iraq before !!!
: 1) There is not much opposition to the ruling Al-Sabah family.
Who told you this !!!! do u know anything about kuwait ??
: 2) You come from a welfare state, therefore people are content (which adds
: to my right to generalize)
What do you mean welfare state !!! its our right as citizens of Kuwait
for this since Kuwait is a rich country.
The same goes for you as an Iraqi, you should have got what you are
entiteled to since your country is much richer than Kuwait !!!
: 3) The population is so small.
What defines small !!! small compared to who ? and who has the right to
define a passing population size !!!!
Ohh well to China everyone is small !!!!! do you see how silly this
statement is !!!!
: That was very nice of you. If my opinion doesn't mean anything, then why
: have you been posting all these messages to me back and forth? Why do you
: care then?
I am not sending messages to you, I am posting my answeres to the newsgroup.
You show your own views and I can respond by showing mine...
: Have you never read anything or seen any documentaries on the war fought for
: the securing of your oil? In some organizational military activites up to
: 99% of the soldiers did not fight. Believe this or not but this is a
: characteristic of a noble people who do not want to fight an unnecessary war.
1st it was a war initiated by Iraq, when it started it by invading Kuwait.
2nd what do you mean 99% didn't fight ??? what did they do when they
invaded and occypied Kuwait ? wasn't this an act of war !!!!
3rd I would like to know the source for your claim about this 99% .
I have read alot but never came across this figure !!!!
: There is only one truth.
And what is that ?
Salam
Qutaiba
olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu
On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Haidar Mahdi wrote:
> olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu wrote:
>
> > > Saddam is a dictator working for the United States, it's that simple.
> >
> > This contention requires satisfactory evidence. So, how did you conclude
> > that?
>
> This is something extremely clear because of the actions of the United
> States government at the end of the Gulf War. Enough said.
"extremely clear?" Oh Lord! This observation does not * necessarily *
imply that "Saddam is working for the U.S." There may be more than one
interpretation for that phenomenon. The U.S. may have been unable to
liquidate Saddam without resorting to querrilla warfare or street-to-
fighting in Baghdad. Imagine how costly such an operation would be!
Moreover, the regional states may have feared that liquidating Saddam
would affect adversely their internal stability if Iraq were to be
divided among ethnic-sectarian lines; Iran, Syria and Turkey have good
reasons to be apprehensive about such an outcome. Another reason is
that the U.S. may have decided to preserve the status quo so that it
would exploit the weaknesses of Iraq to the extreme by maintaining
the embargo-- what is a good reasoning to use for this task more than
employing Saddam as a pretext for this end? Perhaps there are more
other reasons as well. Have you ever asked yourself as to why the
U.S. has bombed Iraq to the stone-age if Saddam "is working for the
U.S. Government"? Therefore, your conclusion that " Saddam is working
for the U.S." is merely an opinion.
>
> > Here we go again: You are indicting all the Arabs (approx. 200 million)
> > for the action of the few, the elite and the most powerful. Please
> > re-evaluate your whole-sale charges against the Arabs especially
> > when the Iraqi rulers, army and the opposition groups are not innocent.
>
> In a world where you cannot trust your own countrymen, you must be extremely
> careful who to trust. I shall never re-evaluate my charges against the Arabs
> for the part they played in the gulf war was against the people of Iraq, and
> not against the government of Iraq.
Well, if you want to insist on incriminating all the Arabs, your position
goes beyond the circle of logical debate; it is emotional par excellence.
Therefore, I would rather ignore your charges.
> Please re-evaluate your whole-sale charges against the Iraqi rulers, army,
> and opposition groups if you do not have proof.
All I have stated is that the three parties are NOT INNOCENT in respect
to the Gulf War. However, you have asked for proof. Unfortunately, this
request forces me to open a can of worms which I do not enjoy doing.
Anyway, as for the Iraqi rulers, their record speaks for itself. As for
the Iraqi army, it is which invaded Kuwait, participated in plundering
the country and left it a waste-land. I should declare that I sympathize
with Iraq now, but its action in Kuwait is deplorable. As for the so-called
Iraqi opposition, take a quick glance:
* Jalal al-Talbani: has joined forces with Khomeini in the Iran-Iraq war
against his own people and country.
* Mustafa al-Barazani: his father's record is known: a mercenary for the
late Shah and the CIA. Their war against the Iraqi army in 1973 caused
the Iraqi army 20,000 casualties. Afterwards, Mustafa joined the
Khomeinist forces against Iraq during 1980-1988 war.
* Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim: the clerk in charge of his organization,
"al-Majlis al-a3la li al-Thurah al-Islamiyah fi al-3iraq",
is a well-known Khomeinist mercenary. He has devoted all his people
and resources to Khomeini's war against the Iraqi army during the
1980-1988 war.
* Gen. Hussein Kamil: do I need to say anything about him?
* Gen. Hassan al-Naqib: ask his Saudi mentors about him!
* Gen. al-Samrai: ask King Hafiz Assad about him!
It is really ironic, Mr Mahdi, that you attack all the Arabs despite
the fact that their support during the Iraq-Iran war was instrumental
in saving Iraq from a sure defeat. Furthermore, it is also ironic that
you defend an "opposition" which have worked hard for long as mercenaries
for Iraq's opponents!!!
salam,
Muhammad
Haidar Mahdi
> "extremely clear?" Oh Lord! This observation does not * necessarily *
> imply that "Saddam is working for the U.S." There may be more than one
> interpretation for that phenomenon. The U.S. may have been unable to
> liquidate Saddam without resorting to querrilla warfare or street-to-
> fighting in Baghdad.
Estimates are that 2,000,000 have died since 1990 in Iraq. 565,000 under the
age of 5 have died because of the sanctions alone. Obviously, the US has not
lost any lives killing 565,000 children.
> Moreover, the regional states may have feared that liquidating Saddam
> would affect adversely their internal stability if Iraq were to be
> divided among ethnic-sectarian lines
When Iraq was created, it included many people that are NOT IRAQIS at all.
You assume that the division of Iraq among ethnic-sectarian lines is a bad
thing. That is mere opinion.
> Therefore, I would rather ignore your charges.
Then ignore them. Nobody is asking you to reply.
> * Jalal al-Talbani: has joined forces with Khomeini in the Iran-Iraq war
> against his own people and country.
You look at Khomeini as simply an enemy? He was the leader of a puritanist
Islamic revolution in Iran. That was it. He was forced to defend his
Islamic land and that remains to be the truth.
> * Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim: the clerk in charge of his organization,
> "al-Majlis al-a3la li al-Thurah al-Islamiyah fi al-3iraq",
> is a well-known Khomeinist mercenary. He has devoted all his people
> and resources to Khomeini's war against the Iraqi army during the
> 1980-1988 war.
Clearly, al-Hakim was fighting for the Islamic Republic, he was not fighting
for a secular arabist anti-Islamic dictatorship like Saddam's army was. The
regimes crimes against Muslims are well documented, read up.
> It is really ironic, Mr Mahdi, that you attack all the Arabs despite
> the fact that their support during the Iraq-Iran war was instrumental
> in saving Iraq from a sure defeat.
Do you think I wanted Iraq to win the war? The Islamic Republic would have
been defeated by pure dictatorship and evil.
Plus, whose side are you on, the Iraqi one or the arab one. All that arab
money got your brothers and mine killed. And you still support them.
> salam,
> Muhammad
Remove salam. You clearly supported evil Iraq during the 80-88 war. By
supporting Iraq during that war, you supported an anti-Islamic government.
That means you do not support peace
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu
On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Haidar Mahdi wrote:
> When Iraq was created, it included many people that are NOT IRAQIS at all.
> You assume that the division of Iraq among ethnic-sectarian lines is a bad
> thing. That is mere opinion.
What is an "Iraqi" before the creation of "Iraq"?
> > Therefore, I would rather ignore your charges.
>
> Then ignore them. Nobody is asking you to reply.
Sir, you are accusing 200 million Arabs of war-crimes against Iraq;
Consequently, I am among the accused. That is why I have replied to
your unthoughful article.
> > * Jalal al-Talbani: has joined forces with Khomeini in the Iran-Iraq war
> > against his own people and country.
>
> You look at Khomeini as simply an enemy?
Not an enemy of me personally, but an enemy of innocence, purity and
the rational trend in Islam.
> He was the leader of a puritanist
> Islamic revolution in Iran. That was it. He was forced to defend his
> Islamic land and that remains to be the truth.
I have been subjected to Iranian propaganda for a long time and realize
Khomeini's designs for the Muslim World. Just read the Iranian
constitution, the first edition to realize that his ideas trascends
beyond the Iranian borders!
> > * Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim: the clerk in charge of his organization,
> > "al-Majlis al-a3la li al-Thurah al-Islamiyah fi al-3iraq",
> > is a well-known Khomeinist mercenary. He has devoted all his people
> > and resources to Khomeini's war against the Iraqi army during the
> > 1980-1988 war.
>
> Clearly, al-Hakim was fighting for the Islamic Republic, he was not fighting
> for a secular arabist anti-Islamic dictatorship like Saddam's army was. The
> regimes crimes against Muslims are well documented, read up.
"Islamic Republic" is a self-contradictory concept. Either it is Islamic
or it is Republic-- it can not be both. Please research both concepts to
to realize the contradiction.
As for Saddam and al-Hakim, one is worse than the other--one is a brutal
dictator and the latter is a mercenary.
> > It is really ironic, Mr Mahdi, that you attack all the Arabs despite
> > the fact that their support during the Iraq-Iran war was instrumental
> > in saving Iraq from a sure defeat.
>
> Do you think I wanted Iraq to win the war? The Islamic Republic would have
> been defeated by pure dictatorship and evil.
Have fought against Iraq in the war?
>
> Plus, whose side are you on, the Iraqi one or the arab one.
Whoever has a just cause. However, the Iraqi cause is an Arab one.
> All that arab
> money got your brothers and mine killed. And you still support them.
Support who? Whom are referring to by "your" and "mine" above?
> > salam,
> > Muhammad
> Remove salam.
> You clearly supported evil Iraq during the 80-88 war.
The war was senseless. However, I was in support of Khomeini in the
beginning (many people were) until I became educated of the Khomeinist
ideology of doom and gloom. Anyway, opposing Khomeini does not qualify
me to endorse the actions of the Iraqi rulers. One is less evil than
the other--just a choice between secular dictatorship and a theocratic
dictatorship.
> By
> supporting Iraq during that war, you supported an anti-Islamic government.
Who has told you that I believe that Khomeinism is an Islamic system
and his government is a manifestation of Islam?
> That means you do not support peace
I support peace AND justice as there will never be peace without justice.
salam to the peace-makers,
Muhammad
sa...@tfs.com
>
> On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Haidar Mahdi wrote:
>
> > olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu wrote:
> >
> > > > Saddam is a dictator working for the United States, it's that simple.
> > >
> > > This contention requires satisfactory evidence. So, how did you conclude
> > > that?
> >
> > This is something extremely clear because of the actions of the United
> > States government at the end of the Gulf War. Enough said.
>
> "extremely clear?" Oh Lord! This observation does not * necessarily *
> imply that "Saddam is working for the U.S." There may be more than one
> interpretation for that phenomenon. The U.S. may have been unable to
> liquidate Saddam without resorting to querrilla warfare or street-to-
> fighting in Baghdad. Imagine how costly such an operation would be!
> Moreover, the regional states may have feared that liquidating Saddam
> would affect adversely their internal stability if Iraq were to be
> divided among ethnic-sectarian lines; Iran, Syria and Turkey have good
> reasons to be apprehensive about such an outcome. Another reason is
> that the U.S. may have decided to preserve the status quo so that it
> would exploit the weaknesses of Iraq to the extreme by maintaining
> the embargo-- what is a good reasoning to use for this task more than
> employing Saddam as a pretext for this end? Perhaps there are more
> other reasons as well.
Like the most obvious reason, milking the shit out of KSA and 19P, aka Q8.
> Have you ever asked yourself as to why the
> U.S. has bombed Iraq to the stone-age if Saddam "is working for the
> U.S. Government"?
For the shia, it was SH himself who did it to satisfy the U.S.
The brain wash state they are in is so blinding that they think they can brain wash others
with some stupid claims.
> Therefore, your conclusion that " Saddam is working
> for the U.S." is merely an opinion.
Or justification for completly siding with Iraq's enemy.
>
> >
> > > Here we go again: You are indicting all the Arabs (approx. 200 million)
> > > for the action of the few, the elite and the most powerful. Please
> > > re-evaluate your whole-sale charges against the Arabs especially
> > > when the Iraqi rulers, army and the opposition groups are not innocent.
> >
> > In a world where you cannot trust your own countrymen, you must be extremely
> > careful who to trust. I shall never re-evaluate my charges against the Arabs
> > for the part they played in the gulf war was against the people of Iraq, and
> > not against the government of Iraq.
>
> Well, if you want to insist on incriminating all the Arabs, your position
> goes beyond the circle of logical debate; it is emotional par excellence.
> Therefore, I would rather ignore your charges.
>
> > Please re-evaluate your whole-sale charges against the Iraqi rulers, army,
> > and opposition groups if you do not have proof.
>
> All I have stated is that the three parties are NOT INNOCENT in respect
> to the Gulf War. However, you have asked for proof. Unfortunately, this
> request forces me to open a can of worms which I do not enjoy doing.
> Anyway, as for the Iraqi rulers, their record speaks for itself. As for
> the Iraqi army, it is which invaded Kuwait, participated in plundering
> the country and left it a waste-land.
"waste-land" to "waste-land".
Did we forget theft conducted by disgruntled employees(slaves)?
> I should declare that I sympathize
> with Iraq now, but its action in Kuwait is deplorable.
Try to look at the facts as they are not as they were handed to you by the western
media or by some arab rags that bends with the wind's direction.
> As for the so-called
> Iraqi opposition, take a quick glance:
>
> * Jalal al-Talbani: has joined forces with Khomeini in the Iran-Iraq war
> against his own people and country.
> * Mustafa al-Barazani: his father's record is known: a mercenary for the
> late Shah and the CIA. Their war against the Iraqi army in 1973 caused
> the Iraqi army 20,000 casualties. Afterwards, Mustafa joined the
> Khomeinist forces against Iraq during 1980-1988 war.
> * Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim: the clerk in charge of his organization,
> "al-Majlis al-a3la li al-Thurah al-Islamiyah fi al-3iraq",
> is a well-known Khomeinist mercenary. He has devoted all his people
> and resources to Khomeini's war against the Iraqi army during the
> 1980-1988 war.
> * Gen. Hussein Kamil: do I need to say anything about him?
> * Gen. Hassan al-Naqib: ask his Saudi mentors about him!
> * Gen. al-Samrai: ask King Hafiz Assad about him! * Baker Al-sadder who in 1979 was promoting civil/secterian war.
* The shia theif of Al-petra Bank in Jordan whose name escapes me now.
* One of the shia theifs of Bank Al-Iitimad, in U.A.
* The ex-Iraqi embassador who stole,400,000$ from the Iraqi embassy, for safe keeping mind you.
* The ex-Iraqi embassador to the U.S., Al-Mashat, a shia, who even devorced his own
foreign wife just to be promoted in the Iraqi government. And while embassador was
organizing a shia Ba'ath sect!!!!.
* Some Iraqi students, mostly shia, who unjustly were given Iraqi government scholarships
during the reign of a shia Iraqi foreign minister, who when the money stopped coming, started
looking for CIA sources of funding.
* More?? The shia Ba'athist who was head of some Iraqi factories in the 70s, who fled Iraq
with his accountant when he felt that he can no longer justify loses from a sure winning product.
* More?? The shia architect, Makia, who was one of the main Iraqi government architects up to
the late 70s who now when asked about his cooperation says, "somebody had to do it, why not me".
And now is liking Gulf ass for some building projects, and being paid handsomely to publish
books under the name "Samir Al-Khalil", a false name, to cover his tracks, just in case SH
is back offering him more projects.
* More??!!!!
>
> It is really ironic, Mr Mahdi, that you attack all the Arabs despite
> the fact that their support during the Iraq-Iran war was instrumental
> in saving Iraq from a sure defeat.
Syria was helping Iran. Gulf states were helping both. Egypt was being paid handsomely
to give. Jordan was paid even more handsomely for faulty equipment and rotten food.
Most of the Palestinans were flip-flopping with who ever has won the last battle.
Iraq paid dearly with its money,including debt, and with its people.
I may be mistaken in the above, but can you please recount the Arab casualty
during the 8 years war?
Ofcourse what I mention above relate to official arab government stance, but including
many arab individuals.
May I remind the fellow arabs that Iraq during all its history fought for all
the arab causes and paid dearly in people and money,not loans, and asking nothing
in return.
> Furthermore, it is also ironic that
> you defend an "opposition" which have worked hard for long as mercenaries
> for Iraq's opponents!!!
>
Some arabs who are not Iraqis just don't get it. Many shia by the influence of their
persian educated leaders feel that arab nationalism is a threat to them becuase it will
be a block against shia and persian nationalism.
Devout shia believe that stealing/torture/murder/etc... is fine as long as it is directed
at non shia. They believe that they should be ruled by non other than a shia, be that person
democrtic/dictator/human or whatever. Any ruler who is not shia even if he just came from
the heavens is worthy of slaugter.
Many of the honest Iraqi shia are starting to distance themselves from such beliefs but
the majority still carry these beliefs.
What I said above is not intended as a divisive discription of shia, just facts and an
encouragement to shia to modify their attitudes.
> salam,
> Muhammad
BTW Didn't we read in history books that Al-hajaj Bin Yousif Al-thakafi said:
"Ya Ahl Al-Iraq Ya Ahl Al-Kufr Wal-Nifaq"
Can someone please tell me when did Al-hajaj die? what Iraq was he talking about?
I heard that Iraq was invented by some sick minded Brit early this century. :-)
Oh, wasn't it Churchil, another sick minded Brit, who once said:
"Wherever I find oil, I will create a country" hint,hint,hint Q8.
During a recent trip to England, I saw an airplane fuel tanker,in Heathrow, with the writing Q8 on it.
Can someone please explain what that symbol is?
Thanks
R. Jachim
There is no inherent contradiction between democracy and Islam.
Muhammad didn't say anything about democracy, and there is a viewpoint
that 'shura' and ''Ijmaa' may be viewed as democratic.
The real question is whether you want to look at democracy from the
standpoint of Locke, Hobbes, etc or from the standpoint of Rosseau.
Bob
On Tue, 13 Feb 1996 olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu wrote:
(Text Deleted)
>
> On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Haidar Mahdi wrote:
> > Clearly, al-Hakim was fighting for the Islamic Republic, he was not fighting
> > for a secular arabist anti-Islamic dictatorship like Saddam's army was. The
> > regimes crimes against Muslims are well documented, read up.
>
> "Islamic Republic" is a self-contradictory concept. Either it is Islamic
> or it is Republic-- it can not be both. Please research both concepts to
> to realize the contradiction.
> As for Saddam and al-Hakim, one is worse than the other--one is a brutal
> dictator and the latter is a mercenary.
>
olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu
On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, R. Jachim wrote:
>
> There is no inherent contradiction between democracy and Islam.
> Muhammad didn't say anything about democracy, and there is a viewpoint
> that 'shura' and ''Ijmaa' may be viewed as democratic.
> The real question is whether you want to look at democracy from the
> standpoint of Locke, Hobbes, etc or from the standpoint of Rosseau.
>
> Bob
Hi!
Well, "Ijmaa" and "shura" do exist exclusively in 'Sunni Islam' whereas
Shiism stipulates that the imam is appointed by Allah; hence, he is an
infallible leader.
However, the source of legislation in 'Sunni Islam' is the sacred texts--
the Quran and Sunnah. In other words, the law-giver is Allah as he is the
supreme ruler of the universe and the Quran/Sunnah are the divine
instruments which ought to supersede and abrogate the legislation of man.
As for a republican system, there is nothing terminal and final, for
the law of the land evolves according to the current reasoning of man.
Moreover, the criterion of "good" and "evil" (or "bad" ) in a democratic
system is determined according to the man's will whereas it is Allah's
will, in the Islamic system, which defines "good" and "evil".
The implications of the above are far reaching in all aspects of life.
Therefore, the frame of reference for "republican democracy" and the
Sunni Islamic political theory are different. So, how could one try
to equate the different? I am not stating, or implying, that one
political system is superior to the other, however. That is a different
debate altogether. Moreover, my contention in the original posting has
implied that the title of the "Islamic Republic of Iran" is self-contra-
dictory if we take the Shiite theory of al-Imamah into consideration.
It is probably worthy of your research to examine the "theory of al-
Imamah", or imamate, to understand the relevancy of my discussion.
Peace,
Muhammad
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: Oh, wasn't it Churchil, another sick minded Brit, who once said:
: "Wherever I find oil, I will create a country" hint,hint,hint Q8.
Can you show us your sources to this please ?
Also Kuwait was there before the Brits where there..Ok, so do yourself a
faver and do some reading.
: During a recent trip to England, I saw an airplane fuel tanker,in Heathrow,
:with the writing Q8 on it.
: Can someone please explain what that symbol is?
Q8 is an Oil company owned by Kuwait. Its like Shell and other Oil
companies which deals with consumers directly.
It has some Gas stations in Europe, and Oil refineries.
Salam
Qutaiba
Haidar Mahdi
Look at the language you use.
> * Baker Al-sadder who in 1979 was promoting civil/secterian war.
> * The shia theif of Al-petra Bank in Jordan whose name escapes me now.
> * One of the shia theifs of Bank Al-Iitimad, in U.A.
> * The ex-Iraqi embassador who stole,400,000$ from the Iraqi embassy, for safe keeping mind you.
> * The ex-Iraqi embassador to the U.S., Al-Mashat, a shia, who even devorced his own
> foreign wife just to be promoted in the Iraqi government. And while embassador was
> organizing a shia Ba'ath sect!!!!.
> * Some Iraqi students, mostly shia, who unjustly were given Iraqi government scholarships
> during the reign of a shia Iraqi foreign minister, who when the money stopped coming, started
> looking for CIA sources of funding.
> * More?? The shia Ba'athist who was head of some Iraqi factories in the 70s, who fled Iraq
> with his accountant when he felt that he can no longer justify loses from a sure winning product.
Look at all of your stupid examples. What do you think? What do you think
will happen under the rule of Saddam al-Tikriti? Plus, we are the majority
in the country, and when only looking at arabs, the overwhelming majority.
You think everybody is the same?
> Some arabs who are not Iraqis just don't get it. Many shia by the influence
> of their persian educated leaders feel that arab nationalism is a threat to
> them becuase it will be a block against shia and persian nationalism.
So Persians in 1979 were successful in establishing a Persian nationalist
state? Wrong. Ayatollah Khomeini's (RA) revolution was puritanist Islamic,
not Persian nationalistic. Show me all your claims of Wilayaat al-faqih
having Persian nationalistic points? Khomeini (RA) was educated in Iraq, as
were many Iranian clergy because they did not have a REAL base in Qumm like
they have now.
The fact is that Arab nationalism takes a secular character. Maybe not
always, but in Iraq it did. Sati Al-Husri was the architect of the whole
thing as far as education is concerned. The clergy in Najaf and Kerbala'
were very worried about government arab nationalist schools coming into their
cities and did everything in their power to keep them away.
> Devout shia believe that stealing/torture/murder/etc... is fine as long as it is directed at non shia.
Really? Which survey are you quoting from?
> They believe that they should be ruled by non other than a shia, be that person democrtic/dictator/human or whatever.
What type of lives have they had under these other non-shia rulers. When I
hear someone say "Ahna'n haribhum wiya chilabhum" about the shi'a, this is
saddam of course, naturally I will reject his rule.
Who in this world wants to be ruled by someone else other than his kind? Do
you? If you do, frankly, I will not believe you.
> Any ruler who is not shia even if he just came from the heavens is worthy > of slaugter.
What ruler has come from the heavens? Tell me of one, Mo'ammar al Qaddafi,
Hafedh al Assad, Saddam al Tikriti, Hosni mubarak, etc? Are these guys from
the heavens?
Actually, I do not believe that and my family is Shi'a. Plus, most Arab
families in Iraq are Shi'a, I could really care less if you believe it or
not.
Any ruler who is not shia is worthy of slaughter? I want statistics on how
many people said this. This needs to be official so your generalizing and
hate-spreading will not do.
> Thanks
Look, he says thanks. No thanks to a kaffir spreader of hatred like you.
May you burn with Abu Lahab.
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
maher
company called Kuwait corporated (it's not even big enough to be called
Kuwait Inc.). It was created by the fuckin british who fuck up
whereever they set foot in. It's the biggest joke and tragedy of all
that a couple of hundred thousand illiterate racists are given a land
that contains 1/4 of all the oil in the world. What kind of country is
this where 1/2 the population moves to London in summer! They call
themselves Arabs yet it's easier for an American or a British to get a
visa to their country than it is for a Syrian or a Jordanian. This
piece of desert was throughout time a part of Iraq and it should go
back to being part of Iraq. All that's happening to Iraq is because of
them, and the Iraqis and all the Arabs will never forgive them for it.
And what they did for the 300,000 Palestinians who were living there is
a disgrace. If it wasn't for the Palestinians those Bedwens would still
be living in tents. And that's how they paid them back. I hope I'll
live to see the day when the oil is gone and those lazy Kuwaitis start
waiting at the British or Israeli embassies to apply for work visas.
Let's see how they'll be treated by the countries that they've been
giving all their money to.
SAMI ELKHAYRI
********************************************************************
I'm in a hurry to get things done
I'm rushin' rushin' 'til life's no fun
All I really gotta do is live and die
But I'm in a hurry and don't know why
--Alabama
********************************************************************
On 18 Feb 1996, maher wrote:
> If any body should leave the Arab league it's this mock country/oil
> company called Kuwait corporated (it's not even big enough to be called
> Kuwait Inc.). It was created by the fuckin british who fuck up
> whereever they set foot in. It's the biggest joke and tragedy of all
> that a couple of hundred thousand illiterate racists are given a land
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What is it with all the generalization going around. How did you know
that all the Kuwaitis are illiterate racists?
> that contains 1/4 of all the oil in the world. What kind of country is
> this where 1/2 the population moves to London in summer! They call
> themselves Arabs yet it's easier for an American or a British to get a
> visa to their country than it is for a Syrian or a Jordanian. This
> piece of desert was throughout time a part of Iraq and it should go
> back to being part of Iraq. All that's happening to Iraq is because of
Oh, would you please give it a rest. Forget about what was. Kuwait is an
independent country now, regardless of what it was 100 years ago.
> them, and the Iraqis and all the Arabs will never forgive them for it.
Great! More divisive rhetoric. I don't know about the Iraqis, but it
looks like Kuwait's relations with the Arab World are improving daily.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Kuwait is to blame for
what's happening to Iraq. I believe it was Iraq that invaded Kuwait, not
the reverse.
> And what they did for the 300,000 Palestinians who were living there is
> a disgrace. If it wasn't for the Palestinians those Bedwens would still
> be living in tents. And that's how they paid them back. I hope I'll
You forget that the Palestinians wholeheartedly backed Iraq, which I must
admit was a moronic mistake. So you can't blame the Kuwaitis for what
they did to the Palestinians.
Your statement about the Kuwaitis still living in tents if not for the
Palestinians, I find really doubtful. I mean, the Kuwaitis could have
employed any other group of people. Don't get me wrong, I think the
Palestinians did contribute a great deal to the building of Kuwait, but
it would have been built without the Palestinians.
> live to see the day when the oil is gone and those lazy Kuwaitis start
> waiting at the British or Israeli embassies to apply for work visas.
> Let's see how they'll be treated by the countries that they've been
> giving all their money to.
>
It's too bad that we can't learn from our mistakes and move on. The great
fortune of the Arabian Gulf is a great asset for all of the Arabs. The
day that the oil runs out in the gulf, the standard of living in the
whole of the Arab World will take a deep plunge.
Salam,
Sami.
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: If any body should leave the Arab league it's this mock country/oil
: company called Kuwait corporated (it's not even big enough to be called
: Kuwait Inc.). It was created by the fuckin british who fuck up
: whereever they set foot in. It's the biggest joke and tragedy of all
: that a couple of hundred thousand illiterate racists are given a land
: this where 1/2 the population moves to London in summer! They call
: themselves Arabs yet it's easier for an American or a British to get a
: visa to their country than it is for a Syrian or a Jordanian. This
: piece of desert was throughout time a part of Iraq and it should go
: back to being part of Iraq. All that's happening to Iraq is because of
: And what they did for the 300,000 Palestinians who were living there is
: a disgrace. If it wasn't for the Palestinians those Bedwens would still
: be living in tents. And that's how they paid them back. I hope I'll
: waiting at the British or Israeli embassies to apply for work visas.
: Let's see how they'll be treated by the countries that they've been
: giving all their money to.
Wow your logic and the level of your argument overwhelmed me !! what can
I say....your post speaks for itself !!
All that I can say is that I hope that you don't really believe that
people with your mentality will rule the arab world in the future !!
because you are exactly the main reason for our present problems...
Qutaiba
st94...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Your verbal attack on the Iraqi Shia is, well, disusting....
(that should have read "disgusting")
What you put down is typical Ta'ifi poison coming from both sides....
Whether it is Sati3 al Hussri or Khairallah Tilfa7 for Sunni Ta'ifiyah..
or Said Samar'ie for Shia ta'ifiyyah...that poison is spreading and everybody
is becoming infected...The learned and the ignorant ....
But your stereotypes are really out of hand....I will grant the Shia their
right to spread their infectious poison's because it is no secret that they
have been oppressed by the Iraqi state .....
But what you spew out is their modern fodder...just as some voices in the
Shia community are calling for a curbing of the tide of counter Ta'ifiyyah...
it seems that the roots of the Sunni ta'ifiyyah have not been shamed...
Basically...Shut up Samir....just simply shut up...The Shia have been pianed
("pained") and have suffered at the hands of Sunni stereotypes about them...
Iranian Taba3iyyah and the likes of this nonsense...pick up a book....(don't
worry..books don't bite)..like Yitzhaq Nakash's "The Shi'is of Iraq"...to
give you a sensible perspective about the character of Iraq's Shia....
In my eyes..I can understand the demand for vengence that some Shiite writers
are demanding...with the hope that reason and a healing of the wounds will
take place...but out of the blue...people like you justify that trend ...
and what do we have at our hands?...Simply more polarization and
fractionalization with Iraqi ranks...
Disgusting...
(In response to the spirit with which you carried your arguement...which
smacked of pure 100% distilled ta'ifiyah)
Nibras Kazimi
sa...@tfs.com
>
> sa...@tfs.com wrote:
>
> > Like the most obvious reason, milking the shit out of KSA and 19P, aka Q8.
>
>
Did I insult the Holly oil?
> > * Baker Al-sadder who in 1979 was promoting civil/secterian war.
> > * The shia theif of Al-petra Bank in Jordan whose name escapes me now.
> > * One of the shia theifs of Bank Al-Iitimad, in U.A.
> > * The ex-Iraqi embassador who stole,400,000$ from the Iraqi embassy, for safe keeping mind you.
> > * The ex-Iraqi embassador to the U.S., Al-Mashat, a shia, who even devorced his own
> > foreign wife just to be promoted in the Iraqi government. And while embassador was
> > organizing a shia Ba'ath sect!!!!.
> > * Some Iraqi students, mostly shia, who unjustly were given Iraqi government scholarships
> > during the reign of a shia Iraqi foreign minister, who when the money stopped coming, started
> > looking for CIA sources of funding.
> > * More?? The shia Ba'athist who was head of some Iraqi factories in the 70s, who fled Iraq
> > with his accountant when he felt that he can no longer justify loses from a sure winning product.
>
> Look at all of your stupid examples.
These people are really stupid, posting their names was just to add to the list posted by
the original person.
> What do you think? What do you think
> will happen under the rule of Saddam al-Tikriti?
The only mistake that was made is trusting people with pesian background.
And if he is al-Tikriti, you are what al-Najafi? al-Irani?
> Plus, we are the majority
> in the country, and when only looking at arabs, the overwhelming majority.
> You think everybody is the same?
We have heard alot from your beloved western media about Iraq's abuse of the "Shi'at Minority",
so what are you minority/majority? or should we believe the survey that you qouted from 1947 but
did not qoute the source since that survey was done by the british?
>
> > Some arabs who are not Iraqis just don't get it. Many shia by the influence
> > of their persian educated leaders feel that arab nationalism is a threat to
> > them becuase it will be a block against shia and persian nationalism.
>
> So Persians in 1979 were successful in establishing a Persian nationalist
> state? Wrong. Ayatollah Khomeini's (RA) revolution was puritanist Islamic,
> not Persian nationalistic.
Why does Iran still use the Pesian calendar in official documents,e.g. Passports?
Why do they still celebrate eid al-Nowroose, fire worship eid?
> Show me all your claims of Wilayaat al-faqih
> having Persian nationalistic points? Khomeini (RA) was educated in Iraq, as
> were many Iranian clergy because they did not have a REAL base in Qumm like
> they have now.
Khomeini (To Hell With Him) took refuge in Iraq while he was being followed by Shah.
And as a sample of devout shia gratitude when he came to power in Iran he started spitting
shit on Iraq.
>
> The fact is that Arab nationalism takes a secular character. Maybe not
> always, but in Iraq it did. Sati Al-Husri was the architect of the whole
> thing as far as education is concerned. The clergy in Najaf and Kerbala'
> were very worried about government arab nationalist schools coming into their
> cities and did everything in their power to keep them away.
Can you explain exactly why they were worried? is it because the government wanted
all proceeds from Najaf and Kerbala' to go directly to the Iraqi treasury instead of
the pockets of the clergy? some clergy made millions from the back of poor, desparate
shia who just want some spiritual relief but end up throwing their precious possesions
through the windows of the Al-hussien grave, just so that the clergy come at the end
of the day to collect these items. I have some names of some of those clergy who use
these monies to marry teenage girls and to build huge homes. Do you want any name?
>
> > Devout shia believe that stealing/torture/murder/etc... is fine as long as it is directed at non shia.
>
>Really? what are your sources?
>
From their books and from their acts.
> > They believe that they should be ruled by non other than a shia, be that person democrtic/dictator/human or whatever.
>
> What type of lives have they had under these other non-shia rulers. When I
> hear someone say "Ahna'n haribhum wiya chilabhum" about the shi'a, this is
> saddam of course, naturally I will reject his rule.
Really? what are your sources?
And offcourse if country #1 is in war with country #2 then both will try to
get at each others "chilab".
>
> Who in this world wants to be ruled by someone else other than his kind? Do
> you? If you do, frankly, I will not believe you.
>
I thought your kind just have to be Iraqi. Now you are saying it has to be a shia.
Well, then why not move to Iran, it is being ruled by your "kind".
How about the U.S. it is not being ruled by your "kind",although I sometimes wonder,
why not change the government into shia also?
> > Any ruler who is not shia even if he just came from the heavens is worthy > of slaugter.
>
> What ruler has come from the heavens? Tell me of one, Mo'ammar al Qaddafi,
> Hafedh al Assad, Saddam al Tikriti, Hosni mubarak, etc? Are these guys from
> the heavens?
Neither was khomeini al-qummi, why worship him?
>
> Actually, I do not believe that and my family is Shi'a. Plus, most Arab
> families in Iraq are Shi'a, I could really care less if you believe it or
> not.
> Have you heard about "ta'kia"? should I remind you what it is?
> Any ruler who is not shia is worthy of slaughter? I want statistics on how
> many people said this. This needs to be official so your generalizing and
> hate-spreading will not do.
Official? you mean I should get it directly from the horses mouth? well too bad
he died in 1989 in Iran.
>
> > Thanks
>
> Look, he says thanks. No thanks to a kaffir spreader of hatred like you.
> May you burn with Abu Lahab.
Again thanks, and especially for the last statement you made, which stands as clear
as the truth does to show what kind of "democracy" you are calling for.
For the record, I fast,do my zakat,do my fitra, pray 5 times a day(without using a turba mind you).
So can you please clarify why I should burn with Abu Lahab.
And why shouldn't you burn with Abdullah Bin Saba'a.
>
> Haidar Mahdi
> http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
sa...@tfs.com
>
> sa...@tfs.com wrote:
>
> : Oh, wasn't it Churchil, another sick minded Brit, who once said:
> : "Wherever I find oil, I will create a country" hint,hint,hint Q8.
>
>
Read his writings.
> Also Kuwait was there before the Brits where there..Ok, so do yourself a
> faver and do some reading.
>
I will return the favour to you by asking you to carefully read my previous mail
in which I had the following line that you conviniently removed:
>>BTW Didn't we read in history books that Al-hajaj Bin Yousif Al-thakafi said: >> "Ya Ahl Al-Iraq Ya Ahl Al-Kufr Wal-Nifaq"
Can you point me to a historic book that dates around the same time as Al-Hajaj's
time, that makes any statement like:
"Ya Ahl Al-Q8, Ya Ahl Al-raml wal Al-naft"
or some such.
Please no Q8i text books.
> : During a recent trip to England, I saw an airplane fuel tanker,in Heathrow,
> :with the writing Q8 on it.
> : Can someone please explain what that symbol is?
>
> Q8 is an Oil company owned by Kuwait. Its like Shell and other Oil
> companies which deals with consumers directly.
> It has some Gas stations in Europe, and Oil refineries.
>
Like which came first, the egg or the chicken.
> Salam
> Qutaiba
AbdulKazzaz
UNA FAZZA UNA RAZZA
On 19 Feb 1996 qut...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
> maher (mah...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : If any body should leave the Arab league it's this mock country/oil
> : company called Kuwait corporated (it's not even big enough to be called
> : Kuwait Inc.). It was created by the fuckin british who fuck up
> : whereever they set foot in. It's the biggest joke and tragedy of all
> : that a couple of hundred thousand illiterate racists are given a land
> : that contains 1/4 of all the oil in the world. What kind of country is
> : this where 1/2 the population moves to London in summer! They call
> : themselves Arabs yet it's easier for an American or a British to get a
> : visa to their country than it is for a Syrian or a Jordanian. This
> : piece of desert was throughout time a part of Iraq and it should go
> : back to being part of Iraq. All that's happening to Iraq is because of
> : them, and the Iraqis and all the Arabs will never forgive them for it.
> : And what they did for the 300,000 Palestinians who were living there is
> : a disgrace. If it wasn't for the Palestinians those Bedwens would still
> : be living in tents. And that's how they paid them back. I hope I'll
> : live to see the day when the oil is gone and those lazy Kuwaitis start
> : waiting at the British or Israeli embassies to apply for work visas.
> : Let's see how they'll be treated by the countries that they've been
> : giving all their money to.
>
>
> What kind of talk is this ya Khayii? Kuwait is bigger then the
Palestinian authority territory and about the size of Lebanon. Another
thing Kuwait does not have 1/4th of the world's oil resources. Saudi
Arabia has a lot of the Oil, Mexico has a huge amount of reserves, Russia/
Siberia has a lot of Oil reserves, Iraq has much more oil then Kuwait.
Also, it is inaccurate to say Kuwait belonged to Iraq because perhaps you
could connect some of the northern parts of Kuwait to Iraq but certainly
not the southern parts. The Saudi Arabians have dropped their claims
to certain parts of Kuwait. If you recall, the Kuwaitis used to fight the
Wahhabi tribes of Saudi Arabia. It is true that they do not treat
Palestinians or Syrians very well, but they do treat their people
better then Syrians or the others treat their own people. Why do the
Syrians, Iraqis and Jordanian border people treat their own citizen like
walking garbage? We accept it because they are our own people but dont accept
it from Kuwaitis there is something sick in our region. It is true the
Palestinians have contributed a lot to the Kuwaitis. The Kuwaitis did not
always treat the Palestinians very well. However, some Palestinians are
rich thanks to the Kuwaitis. No matter how wrong the Kuwaitis were
sometimes it never excuses the PLO collaboration with Iraq which lead to
the torture of thousands of Kuwaitis. Have you seen the pictures and the way
these people were killed. The Kuwaitis gave billions to the PLO over the
years and everyone who worked in the Kuwaiti government of Palestinian
origin was forced to contribute to the PLO. What you should be
concentrating on if you are Jordanian, Iraqi, Egyptian, Lebanese
is an individual state not this
mythological arabism which as we see does not work and has never worked.
Do not concentrate on this hate thinking we have enough of it. You
should abandon this blind hate for these people.---------------------Basil
Simplicist
>you people are so stupid you really missed the point
>
Um, what's the point?
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: Read his writings.
Ohh so you don't know which book..OK !!
: I will return the favour to you by asking you to carefully read my previous
:mail
: in which I had the following line that you conviniently removed:
: >>BTW Didn't we read in history books that Al-hajaj Bin Yousif Al-thakafi
: >> said "Ya Ahl Al-Iraq Ya Ahl Al-Kufr Wal-Nifaq"
: Can you point me to a historic book that dates around the same time as Al-Hajaj's
: time, that makes any statement like:
: "Ya Ahl Al-Q8, Ya Ahl Al-raml wal Al-naft"
: or some such.
: Please no Q8i text books.
WHAT !!! what are you writing and trying to say here ??????
: > : During a recent trip to England, I saw an airplane fuel tanker,in Heathrow,
: > :with the writing Q8 on it.
: > : Can someone please explain what that symbol is?
: >
: > Q8 is an Oil company owned by Kuwait. Its like Shell and other Oil
: > companies which deals with consumers directly.
: > It has some Gas stations in Europe, and Oil refineries.
: >
: Like which came first, the egg or the chicken.
WHAT !!!!! can someone please explain to me what this guy is saying !!!!
Qutaiba
hesham al-basaam
olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu
On 25 Feb 1996, hesham al-basaam wrote:
> ui
I perfectly understand your position :)
Haidar Mahdi
> > What do you think? What do you think
> > will happen under the rule of Saddam al-Tikriti?
>
> The only mistake that was made is trusting people with pesian background.
> And if he is al-Tikriti, you are what al-Najafi? al-Irani?
Well, we arabs in our language have names that indicate our cities. How many
al-Baghdadis are there? Saddam is a Tikriti, that is why I called him Saddam
Al-Tikriti.
> We have heard alot from your beloved western media about Iraq's abuse of
> the "Shi'at Minority", so what are you minority/majority?
Shi'a are the majority in Iraq. Despite Saddam's efforts to make us the
minority by deporting us and killing, we remain the majority.
> Why does Iran still use the Pesian calendar in official documents,e.g. >
> Passports?
Big deal.
> Why do they still celebrate eid al-Nowroose, fire worship eid?
The clergy frowns upon the holiday as a pre-Islamic holiday. Why do Kurds,
who are Sunnis, still celebrate eid al-Nawruz?
> And as a sample of devout shia gratitude when he came to power in Iran he
> started spitting shit on Iraq.
Well, no he did not. Saddam spit missiles at Iran.
> > > Devout shia believe that stealing/torture/murder/etc... is fine as long as it is directed at non shia.
> >
> >Really? what are your sources?
> >
>
> From their books and from their acts.
I want the books and acts of every shi'a then, give me them. Tell me about
me then sameer, have I stolen, tortured, murdered ONCE IN MY LIFE?
> I thought your kind just have to be Iraqi. Now you are saying it has to be
> a shia.
You thought wrong. I am not saying anything, you are putting words in my
mouth. My kind is good Muslim, that is all. Since when does Saddam
represent good Sunni rule? When has there been a long period of good Sunni
rule in iraq to judge the reactions of the shi'a about them.
> Well, then why not move to Iran, it is being ruled by your "kind".
The Islamic Revolution will spread to you one day insha' Allah.
> For the record, I fast,do my zakat,do my fitra, pray 5 times a day(without using a turba mind you).
Yeah, you give your money to any cause that sponsors the murder of Shi'a.
You pray but clearly it does not count since between your prayers you spread
hatred.
> So can you please clarify why I should burn with Abu Lahab.
May Allah (swt) do with you as he pleases, and let Allah (swt) judge
Khairallah al-tulfah accordingly, the racist source of all your information.
Haidar Mahdi
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
SAMI ELKHAYRI
********************************************************************
I'm in a hurry to get things done
I'm rushin' rushin' 'til life's no fun
All I really gotta do is live and die
But I'm in a hurry and don't know why
--Alabama
********************************************************************
Salam Muhammad,
Good one! I had a really good chuckle. :) :)
Salam,
Sami.
hesham al-basaam
i agree with you in some points but i also disgree in point ,i will not
say some thing in my imagintion or lie to you .befor iraqi invasion
palestinines wich live in kuwait ,non of them was dream in this living
they have every thing that they never get it in any arab country or even
their country
hesham al-basaam
stay? .............. i think if any body judge on peaple befor he
see,hear,and live with them at lest 4 years so he can know them better
not just only hear from his friends or waching TV.......its not wise or
right thing totally................dont think wronr ,i didnt mean you its
general talking.
hesham al-basaam
------------
i will answer that,from i feelt or see it from friends and their familys
i know that they love kuwait and they used to live her than any conutry
we respect them and this is the truth becyse they are ahuman like us
,they born here like i was ,we rise to gather and i still remember them
until this moment............our neighbor is palestinine and he still
until now so, how could you say some thing like that about kuwait?
yes,some palestinines are treat it bad [few] so we cant generalize that
about all of them ,palestinies mybe treat it bad on US OR FRANCE OR UK in
every place ,not in kuwait theres bad and good but the majoraty are
satisfine with livlngs
hesham al-basaam
----------
im kuwaiti so i live in kuwait for the rest of my life and i have freins
from [palestin,yemen,iran,iraq]befor invasion and i have very spical one
she from lebane ,she always teeling me that she and her family used to
live in kuwait than their country wich visit on holidays only by the way
she have 7 brothers bigger than her all of them were born in kuwait
,educat,works .............so if we really bad peaple and treat them
bad,why they didnt keep thier dignity and go to ather country were the
freedom,dignity and feel more comfortable in it ?
hesham al-basaam
hesham al-basaam
-----------------
hesham al-basaam
-----------
in front of the house no difference women or men with them or rape girls
in very awful way you cant imagin that,what i can say about this i feel
very subdual i realy cuoldnt belive that until i see it in my eyes .
palestinines who help iraqis were the majoraty unfortunate while the
other that help us [few] we all respect them and ppreciat that ,they were
loyal to this country.
hesham al-basaam
-------------
about the 1/4of the world oil in kuwait,our oil now is less than it was
befor invasion and thanks for saddam fuck him becuse of oil wells firing
,i have now 2 of my family hostages in iraq ,here we try to forget this
thing but we cant , how can forget and our sons,brothers,fathers,hasbands
in iraq , iraqis destroy every single thing they put thier hands on it
hesham al-basaam
--------------
after invasion ,unfortunate and i say that ,becuse after what we did for
them i mean living with us,educate,health,entertainment.specily last one
if you go to any park in kuwait befor you will notice that most visitods
are palestinies ,what do you think of that ?......i can say that all
facilitys are avalible free of charge ,when palestinies came to kuwait in
end of fiftys we were pay for them rates its not afree of charge ,we
didnt compulsion them to came her they came by them self
hesham al-basaam
------------
becuse in thier country they couldnt get any mony and every body knows
that,so they didnt came here to help us,they want to get mony so they can
live so, NEVER SAY AFTER WHAT THEY DID FOR US BECUSE ,THEY DIDNT DO ANY
THING FOR US SPICALY ,WE WERE PAY FOR THEM . THIS IS THE TRUTH
SUDDENLY, they fight us and help iraqis [what did iraq do for them?] i
feelt very anger and i couldnt belive it until i see it in my eyes ,they
[palestinines] love humilate us and it happend to me several times and
some times turcher then kill them
hesham al-basaam
------------
finally, i have aqustions for maher if he read now ,why you put an
article and write about what happend to palestinies in LIBYA becuse of
MR.JERK AL GADAFI ? answer MR GENIUS
WE IN KUWAIT FEED UP WITH YOUR RUBBISH ,PLEASE
KEEP YOUR RUBBISH FOR YOUR SELF .
P.S. ONLY FOR maher اتمنى ان ابقى على قيد الحياة حتى ارى عزراءيل يقبض روحك .
Nasser H Ruhhal
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960226...@tigger.cc.uic.edu>, olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu writes:
|>
|>
|> On 25 Feb 1996, hesham al-basaam wrote:
|>
|> > ui
|>
|> I perfectly understand your position :)
Otherwise he should explain.
bye.
--
Ana esmi yesbheh fea'li, ay anoh tejedoni bea'd al-marekah
HaHaHa!!
Simplicist
Simplicist
hesham al-basaam <hes...@kuwait.net> wrote:
> PART 9
> ------------
> finally, i have aqustions for maher if he read now ,why you put an
>article and write about what happend to palestinies in LIBYA becuse of
>MR.JERK AL GADAFI ? answer MR GENIUS
>
>
> WE IN KUWAIT FEED UP WITH YOUR RUBBISH ,PLEASE
>KEEP YOUR RUBBISH FOR YOUR SELF .
And you do the same for everyone's sake :)
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: And you do the same for everyone's sake :)
I hope this "you" is directed towards Bassam and not all the Kuwaitis !
Qutaiba
sa...@tfs.com
>
> sa...@tfs.com wrote:
>
> > > What do you think? What do you think
> > > will happen under the rule of Saddam al-Tikriti?
> >
> > The only mistake that was made is trusting people with pesian background.
> > And if he is al-Tikriti, you are what al-Najafi? al-Irani?
>
> al-Baghdadis are there? Saddam is a Tikriti, that is why I called him Saddam
> Al-Tikriti.
>
From your signature I see "Mahdi", is that a city name?. If not why not use
your city name? how about your neighbourhood name?
If you don't like to mention it, why then the emphasise on Takriti?
or are you just following the lead of few well known Iraqi enemy radio broadcasts?
> > We have heard alot from your beloved western media about Iraq's abuse of
> > the "Shi'at Minority", so what are you minority/majority?
>
> Shi'a are the majority in Iraq. Despite Saddam's efforts to make us the
> minority by deporting us and killing, we remain the majority.
>
When did you make the count? the only given was from 1947 done by the british for
obvious reasons.
Look if you are saying that Islam should rule. Then sunnis should rule because they
are the majority in the ISLAMIC WORLD, which includes Iraq, Iran, Turkey, ...etc.
If you are saying that shia should rule in Iraq because they are majority, then I would
tell you that arabs should rule in Iraq because they are majority and it doesn't matter
wether a chritian/sunni/shia or whatever arab should rule in Iraq.
You are trying convineintly to devide based on ethnic and secterian bases.
> > Why does Iran still use the Pesian calendar in official documents,e.g. >
> > Passports?
>
> Big deal.
You have lost track of the whole discussion. You were saying that Iran is puristic muslim,
which I was debating by mentioning the official documents.
>
> > Why do they still celebrate eid al-Nowroose, fire worship eid?
>
> The clergy frowns upon the holiday as a pre-Islamic holiday.
Assuming that you are right,"The clergy frowns...". Why is it they have the urge/POWER
to accuse other nations of being non islamic by pointing to their acts, while they
cann't change the official calendar/documents, ... etc?
Dosen't that give you a hint of their persian nationalism?
> Why do Kurds,
> who are Sunnis, still celebrate eid al-Nawruz?
>
The kurds have never claimed that they are after an Islamic, shia/sunni state.
They explicitely are asking for a national state.
No body seems to want to mention their status in Iran? do they have a state?
do they have any identity? there are more than twice the number of kurds in Iran
as there are in Iraq.
> > And as a sample of devout shia gratitude when he came to power in Iran he
> > started spitting shit on Iraq.
>
> Well, no he did not. Saddam spit missiles at Iran.
>
You were 2 years old when the spitting started so you wouldn't know.
> > > > Devout shia believe that stealing/torture/murder/etc... is fine as long as it is directed at non shia.
> > >
> > >Really? what are your sources?
> > >
> >
> > From their books and from their acts.
>
> I want the books and acts of every shi'a then, give me them. Tell me about
> me then sameer, have I stolen, tortured, murdered ONCE IN MY LIFE?
>
If you look at the line that you included, I say : "believe that stealing/torture/..." and the
emphasis should have been on "believe", wether a person has the opportunity to do that or not
depends highly on that person circumstances.
> > I thought your kind just have to be Iraqi. Now you are saying it has to be
> > a shia.
>
> You thought wrong. I am not saying anything, you are putting words in my
> mouth. My kind is good Muslim, that is all. Since when does Saddam
> represent good Sunni rule? When has there been a long period of good Sunni
> rule in iraq to judge the reactions of the shi'a about them.
>
You see it is not you nor me who decide who are good muslims and who are not.
That is why there is a god who knows and distinguishes.
> > Well, then why not move to Iran, it is being ruled by your "kind".
>
> The Islamic Revolution will spread to you one day insha' Allah.
I have been exposed to Islam before you were born and before your Islamic Revolution was born.
I don't need you/Islamic Revolution to tell me what is Islamic and what is not.
I will always be proud of my faith, and will always be able to make my decisions based on what
I read in Quran and Sunnah and not by what is being taught by some self serving illeterate.
>
> > For the record, I fast,do my zakat,do my fitra, pray 5 times a day(without using a turba mind you).
>
> Yeah, you give your money to any cause that sponsors the murder of Shi'a.
> You pray but clearly it does not count since between your prayers you spread
> hatred.
>
In Islam if you give from what god has given you, you shouldn't say where your gifts are going.
Since you accuse me of something based on ignorance I will tell you that I donate always to a small
black muslim mosque in Oakland. Now if they murder any Shia, that is their problem with god.
As to the part where you say "clearly ...", I would say that your ignorance is reflecting badly on
your sect where everybody puts himself as a god who decides wether another person's prayes is accepted
or not.
> > So can you please clarify why I should burn with Abu Lahab.
>
> May Allah (swt) do with you as he pleases,
I thought you already did in the previous mail, when you branded me as a "kafir". Now if you
had a weapon at that time and I was close by, you would have shot me, right?
But now after you found out that I am a muslim, you are allowing god to do with me as he pleases.
Well then I and GOD should thank you, you merciful.
> and let Allah (swt) judge
> Khairallah al-tulfah accordingly, the racist source of all your information.
>
My sources are from a Pakistani muslim leader who was murdered by the likes of you, just
for expressing views that exposes the lies. Other sources include books by the likes of
Kashif Al-Ghita'a, you know him he is one of yours.
> Haidar Mahdi
> http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~hta4x
maher
writes:
> PART 9
> ------------
> finally, i have aqustions for maher if he read now ,why you put an
>article and write about what happend to palestinies in LIBYA becuse of
>MR.JERK AL GADAFI ? answer MR GENIUS
>
>
> WE IN KUWAIT FEED UP WITH YOUR RUBBISH ,PLEASE
>KEEP YOUR RUBBISH FOR YOUR SELF .
1st of all, your reply is a great example of the arrogance of the
Kuwaitis. Why the hell do you need to post 9 consecutive messages to
tell us what you think? You and your fellow citizens have become so
arrogant after the war that everybody now hates your guts. Not that you
were liked much before the war. The arrogance, conceit, and
indifference to other arabs, that your people acquired since the
western companies discovered oil in your desert country made your
people hated by the arabs and despised by the west. I hope you know
that the Americans, British, and Israelis that you guys look up to,
despise you and think that you are nothing more than camel-riding
bedouins who live on welfare. Some country where the whole population
lives on welfare and the foreigners are the only ones who work. In all
the wars that Arabs had with Israel I never heared of a single Kuwaiti
participating in a single fight. Even when Iraq invaded Kuwait you guys
ran away to the Bars in London. How do you expect anybody to respect
you when you have never contributed anything to anybody. If it wasn't
for the oil, your country could vanish from the face of the earth and
no one would even notice it. If you had any dignity you would have
gotten rid of your ugly Emir long time ago. But you don't.
As for Qadafi, we gave up on him long time ago. Who else hasn't treated
the Palestinians like shit? starting from Rabin's body King Hussein
(who cried at Rabin's funeral but didn't shed a tear when his tanks
bulldozed thousands of palestinian women and children in refugee camps)
going to Assad and his massacres in Tal-Alzaatar, and going to the
Lebanese Falanges in Lebanon, and the list goes on and on.
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: 1st of all, your reply is a great example of the arrogance of the
: Kuwaitis. Why the hell do you need to post 9 consecutive messages to
^^^^^^^^^^ ????
Do I sense generalization here !!!! how come if one Kuwaiti shows his/her
opinion then its taken against all Kuwaitis !!! this guy has shown his
own opinion as a Kuwaiti individual.
Why if one Iraqi shows his/her support to Saddam its not generalized
against all Iraqis ?????
But I know that for people like Maher who are just waiting for any
mistake by any Kuwaiti to just generalize, is very convenient.
: tell us what you think? You and your fellow citizens have become so
: arrogant after the war that everybody now hates your guts. Not that you
: were liked much before the war. The arrogance, conceit, and
: indifference to other arabs, that your people acquired since the
: western companies discovered oil in your desert country made your
: people hated by the arabs and despised by the west. I hope you know
: that the Americans, British, and Israelis that you guys look up to,
: despise you and think that you are nothing more than camel-riding
: bedouins who live on welfare. Some country where the whole population
: lives on welfare and the foreigners are the only ones who work. In all
: the wars that Arabs had with Israel I never heared of a single Kuwaiti
: participating in a single fight. Even when Iraq invaded Kuwait you guys
: ran away to the Bars in London. How do you expect anybody to respect
: you when you have never contributed anything to anybody. If it wasn't
: for the oil, your country could vanish from the face of the earth and
: no one would even notice it. If you had any dignity you would have
: gotten rid of your ugly Emir long time ago. But you don't.
Well I don't think such "highly intellectual" "full of substance" post
deserve any sort of response !! it speaks for itself and the reader can
think of what to make of it..
But didn't you post such thing before,and I presented some questions to
you and you ignored them conveniently :)
: As for Qadafi, we gave up on him long time ago. Who else hasn't treated
: the Palestinians like shit? starting from Rabin's body King Hussein
: (who cried at Rabin's funeral but didn't shed a tear when his tanks
: bulldozed thousands of palestinian women and children in refugee camps)
: going to Assad and his massacres in Tal-Alzaatar, and going to the
: Lebanese Falanges in Lebanon, and the list goes on and on.
:
So how come now you don't generalize against all Jordanians, Syrians,
Lebaneas,...etc ??
Ohh forgot....not convenient :) and doesn't make you feel better and
superior !!
Qutaiba
olai...@tigger.cc.uic.edu
On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Haidar Mahdi wrote:
> > Why does Iran still use the Pesian calendar in official documents,e.g. >
> > Passports?
>
> Big deal.
It is a big deal when the Iranian constitution requires that the
president of the republic be Persian. Check the constitution.
That would be o.k if they remove the word "islamic" from the name
of the republic as it is the antithesis of the universality of Islam.
> You thought wrong. I am not saying anything, you are putting words in my
> mouth. My kind is good Muslim, that is all. Since when does Saddam
> represent good Sunni rule? When has there been a long period of good Sunni
> rule in iraq to judge the reactions of the shi'a about them.
Even a just Sunni rule (or any democarcy for that matter) is considered
illegitimate system according to your clergy. The reason, of course, is
that the imam/leader must be one of the Twelve "Shiite" imams-- so
teaches Twelver Shiism. Therefore, your objection towards the actions
of a ruler (or rulers) are irrelevant as you still believe that Allah
has appointed Twelve infallible rulers for the entire world and until
the end of life. In other words, Saddam is not an object of the debate;
the political system which the clergy's followers aspire for is or
it ought to be.
> > Well, then why not move to Iran, it is being ruled by your "kind".
> The Islamic Revolution will spread to you one day insha' Allah.
The Bill of Rights will take care of the matter. However, if your
"revolution" has failed to spread in the Middle East, why are you
hopeful for it to spread in the U.S.? Moreover, if the Christian
Fundamentalists are uncapable of taking over America, why are you
so sure that your clergy would succeed?
On another note, if Allah is on your side, you would not need to
preach the clergy's theology, for Allah would have made them the
rulers of the world already.
>
salam to the peace-makers,
Muhammad
Simplicist
Your hope is fulfilled :)
Chill Qutaiba. I don't hate Kuwaities :)
qut...@imap2.asu.edu
: Your hope is fulfilled :)
: Chill Qutaiba. I don't hate Kuwaities :)
Ohhhhh you made my day :)))))
(am just kidding ok, don't take it in a different way )
Salam
Qutaiba
UNA FAZZA UNA RAZZA
On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, mohaiseh wrote:
> In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.960222...@alcor.concordia.ca> you wrote:
>
> : On 19 Feb 1996 qut...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
>
> : > maher (mah...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : > : If any body should leave the Arab league it's this mock country/oil
> : > : company called Kuwait corporated (it's not even big enough to be called
> : > : Kuwait Inc.). It was created by the fuckin british who fuck up
> : > : whereever they set foot in. It's the biggest joke and tragedy of all
> : > : that a couple of hundred thousand illiterate racists are given a land
> : > : that contains 1/4 of all the oil in the world. What kind of country is
> : > : this where 1/2 the population moves to London in summer! They call
> : > : themselves Arabs yet it's easier for an American or a British to get a
> : > : visa to their country than it is for a Syrian or a Jordanian. This
> : > : piece of desert was throughout time a part of Iraq and it should go
> : > : back to being part of Iraq. All that's happening to Iraq is because of
> : > : them, and the Iraqis and all the Arabs will never forgive them for it.
> : > : And what they did for the 300,000 Palestinians who were living there is
> : > : a disgrace. If it wasn't for the Palestinians those Bedwens would still
> : > : be living in tents. And that's how they paid them back. I hope I'll
> : > : live to see the day when the oil is gone and those lazy Kuwaitis start
> : > : waiting at the British or Israeli embassies to apply for work visas.
> : > : Let's see how they'll be treated by the countries that they've been
> : > : giving all their money to.
> : >
> : >
> : > What kind of talk is this ya Khayii? Kuwait is bigger then the
> : Palestinian authority territory and about the size of Lebanon. Another
> : thing Kuwait does not have 1/4th of the world's oil resources. Saudi
> : Arabia has a lot of the Oil, Mexico has a huge amount of reserves, Russia/
> : Siberia has a lot of Oil reserves, Iraq has much more oil then Kuwait.
> : Also, it is inaccurate to say Kuwait belonged to Iraq because perhaps you
> : could connect some of the northern parts of Kuwait to Iraq but certainly
> : not the southern parts. The Saudi Arabians have dropped their claims
> : to certain parts of Kuwait. If you recall, the Kuwaitis used to fight the
> : Wahhabi tribes of Saudi Arabia. It is true that they do not treat
> : Palestinians or Syrians very well, but they do treat their people
> : better then Syrians or the others treat their own people. Why do the
> : Syrians, Iraqis and Jordanian border people treat their own citizen like
> : walking garbage? We accept it because they are our own people but dont accept
> : it from Kuwaitis there is something sick in our region. It is true the
> : Palestinians have contributed a lot to the Kuwaitis. The Kuwaitis did not
> : always treat the Palestinians very well. However, some Palestinians are
> : rich thanks to the Kuwaitis. No matter how wrong the Kuwaitis were
> : sometimes it never excuses the PLO collaboration with Iraq which lead to
> : the torture of thousands of Kuwaitis. Have you seen the pictures and the way
> : these people were killed. The Kuwaitis gave billions to the PLO over the
> : years and everyone who worked in the Kuwaiti government of Palestinian
> : origin was forced to contribute to the PLO. What you should be
> : concentrating on if you are Jordanian, Iraqi, Egyptian, Lebanese
> : is an individual state not this
> : mythological arabism which as we see does not work and has never worked.
> : Do not concentrate on this hate thinking we have enough of it. You
> : should abandon this blind hate for these people.---------------------Basil
>
>
> It isn't enough that you are fabricating history. Ya Jasooss (O' traitor)
> the arab/muslim countries will unit, wether you and your masters like
> it or not. You are very naive to think you can shove your masters
> ideas down our throats. Tell one of your fathers (either the
> british, or the frensh foreign ministers) who divided the arab
> world to go hell.
>
>
> Am I fabricating history:) Excuse me but I could have a PHD in
history if I wanted to easily, but I do not want to major in it I want a
business degree. Call me a traitor or naive, however, I will let the
other people judge what do I care.
Just like the philosopher Voegel said "Everyone ignores history and repeates
it."
You are saying I am fabricating history? The Wahhabis of Saudi did fight
the kuwaitis it is a fact. The Kuwaitis were a part of the Ottoman
Empire another fact and one of Kuwait's old flags was the Ottoman flag.
The Southern parts of Kuwait were claimed by Saudi Arabia another fact.
Do not try to educate me about Kuwaiti history. I am quite familiar with
their history,laws, and people. Iraq had certain claims to the North parts
around the borders and they had disputes over that. This is all documented and
fact. If you claim to be so educated about the middle east then who among
Kuwaiti men can vote in the elections? Maybe this will force you to open
your eyes to facts and not what everyone teaches you.
Another point that was made was Kuwait has 1/4th of the World's
Oil. Now come on. Do you know that Saudi has much more Oil then Kuwait.
Iraq has more Oil then Kuwait they are just a poorer nation. What about
Iran's oil reserves. What about Venezuela, Siberia, Mexico, Nigeria, and
other countries. If kuwait, indeed, had 1/4th of the Oil reserves they
would control much more of OPEC's policy then they do now.
Yes, Kuwait was not nice to many Palestinians. However, they did
take the Palestinian refugees in and you know they did not have to do
this. Let us be more objective. The head of Kuwait's investments and he
is extremely successful is a Kuwaiti of Palestinian descent. I knew
another girl who was originally Palestinian her father made a lot of
money. Of course, we must not deny the abuse of Palestinian's rights in
certain times like the Police kind of overstepped their boundaries.
However, do the Jordanian police treat the Palestinians any worse is a
fundamental question I have to ask. If you are not respected in your
country and your embassy does not give you respect it can lead to being
treated like this. These problems can not be looked at a surface level.
Another point the size of Kuwait does not matter whether it
should be a country or not. Is Qatar huge? No. Is Cyprus huge? No. Is
Leichtenstein big? Is the Vatican big? No. Is Brunei big? No.
I certainly think that Kuwait has a long way to go in terms of
having respect for other nationals. I am quite aware of Kuwait's record
on human rights.
Now you had to bring up the Europeans my "so called" masters. I
am tired of this broken record about the Europeans selling out moslems.
Do you know that England promised everyone the same thing including the
Armenian and Assyrian Christians. Did they get anything. The answer is
a big NO. So, let us look objectively. Did the Europeans just bring
destruction? The answer again No. The Universite de St. Joseph in Lebanon
was built by the French. Under Mohammed Ali of Egypt many French
engineers through his bringing of them modernized Egypt. Even though he
was not a born Egyptian he was a "real Egyptian." This is why Egypt has a
French influence due to their intellectual, engineering, and
technological influence. Was there not war in the middle east before the
Europeans? Of course there was. Everyone just wants to blame someone for
something. Another thing, do you know who sold out the Palestinians? They
always say the British. The person who could have made serious damage to
Israel in 1948 was King Abdullah the Saudi Arabian born Hashemite.
However, he just wanted to deal with Israel to weaken the Arab states, so
he could take them over and replace what used to be the Ottoman Empire.
I think today Jordan for example is doing quite well. It is
improving significantly. It is a country that is quite stable and
productive why wreck it because of these ideas of revenge and hate.
Lebanon is now recovering from its civil war. I wish I had more examples,
but we are too busy blaming others to make any progress. I want you all
ask yourselves how have you shown love for each other's countries or try
to reach out to the others instead of saying I hate you? Maybe if we had
love in our region we would progress. Perhaps, this is a dream but let us
get to it or we will forever be in this Kaboos (nightmare).
--------------------------------------------------------------Basil
rafaelro...@gmail.com
Read more about persian league http://goo.gl/AyvDR
Aviroce
others are "Reply to author."
Iraq is not an independent Arab country. It is a colony of USA, hence
Israel. Saudi Arabia is not an Arab country either. It is a colony of
USA. So is Kuwait, Bahrain, ... There are no Arab countries yet.
There are colonies of the West with USA on top and Israel a tool.