"The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans". At the request of sharavi, and after ten years here, I post my first article by David Duke

[HHW]

The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans

Administrator May 07, 2013 |
Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
people.[5]

And foreign aid is just one component of the staggering cost of our
alliance with Israel.
Given the tremendous costs, it is critical to examine why we lavish so
much aid on Israel, and whether it is worth Americans’ hard-earned tax
dollars. But first, let’s take a look at what our alliance with Israel
truly costs.
Before the Iraq War in 2003
Direct Foreign Aid
According to the Congressional Research Service , the amount of
official US aid to Israel since its founding in 1948 tops $115
billion, and in the past few decades it has been on the order of $3
billion per year.[6] (In 2013, for example, this amounted to over $8.5
million every single day.)
But this money is only part of the story. For one thing, Israel gets
all of its aid money at the start of each year, rather than in
quarterly installments like other countries.[7] This is significant:
It means that Israel can start earning interest on the money right
away – interest paid by the US since Israel invests these funds in US
Treasury notes. In addition, because the US government operates at a
deficit, it must borrow money in order to give it to Israel and then
pay interest on it all year. Together these cost US taxpayers more
than $100 million every year.
Israel is also the only recipient of US military aid that is allowed
to use a significant portion annually to purchase products made by
Israeli companies instead of US companies. (The costs to Americans
caused by this unique perk are discussed below.)
In addition, the US gives roughly $1.6 billion per year to Egypt and
Jordan in aid packages arranged largely in exchange for peace treaties
with Israel. The treaties don’t include justice for Palestinians, and
are therefore deeply unpopular with the local populations.[8]
On top of this, the US gives more than $400 million to the Palestinian
Authority each year,[9] much of it used to rebuild infrastructure
destroyed by Israel and to bolster an economy stifled by the Israeli
occupation.[10] This would be unnecessary if Israel were to end the
occupation and allow the Palestinians to build a functioning and self-
sustaining economy.
Yet, there’s still much more to the story, because parts of US aid to
Israel are buried in the budgets of various US agencies, mostly the
Department of Defense. For example, since at least 2006, the American
Defense budget has included between $130 and $235 million per year for
missile defense programs in Israel.[11]
In all, direct US disbursements to Israel are higher than to any other
country, even though Israelis only make up 0.1% of the world’s
population. On average, Israelis receive 7,000 times more US foreign
aid per capita than other people throughout the world, despite the
fact that Israel is one of the world’s more affluent nations.[12] And
that number rises significantly when one considers disbursements to
Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority and Defense spending on
behalf of Israel.
Additional Ad hoc support for Israel
Dr. Thomas Stauffer, a Harvard economist and Middle East studies
professor who twice served in the Executive Office of the President,
wrote a comprehensive report about all components of the relationship
with Israel’s cost to American taxpayers for theWashington Report on
Middle East Affairs in 2003. He wrote:
“Another element is ad hoc support for Israel, which is not part of
the formal foreign aid programs. No comprehensive compilation of US
support for Israel has been publicly released. Additional known items
include loan guarantees… special contracts for Israeli firms, legal
and illegal[13] transfers of marketable US military technology, de
facto exemption from US trade protection provisions, and discounted
sales or free transfers of ‘surplus’ US military equipment. An
unquantifiable element is the trade and other aid given to Romania and
Russia to facilitate Jewish migration to Israel; this has accumulated
to many billions of dollars.”[14]
Israel has often used its privileged access to US military technology
against both the US government and US corporate interests. According
to the Associated Press in 2002,
“In France, Turkey, The Netherlands and Finland, Israeli companies
have edged such U.S. firms as Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and General
Atomics out of arms deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars in
recent years. The irony, experts say, is that tens of billions of U.S.
tax dollars and transfers of American military technology helped
create and nurture Israel’s industry, in effect subsidizing a foreign
competitor.”
The AP article quoted a vice president at the Aerospace Industries
Association of America, who bluntly said, “We give them money to build
stuff for themselves and the U.S. taxpayer gets nothing in
return.”[15]
Meanwhile, according to the Christian Science Monitor , Israel has
also “blocked some major US arms sales, such as F-15 fighter aircraft
to Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s. That cost $40 billion over 10
years.”[16]
Even worse, Israeli weapons “buttress the arsenals of nations such as
China that the United States considers strategic competitors, alarming
US military planners,” theAssociated Press article went on to report.
“[In 2001] US surveillance planes flying along China’s coast were
threatened by Chinese fighter jets armed with Israeli missiles… Had
Chinese fighter pilots been given the order to fire, they could have
brought down the US planes with Israeli Python III missiles… US
defense chiefs say Israel sold China the missiles without informing
the United States.”[17]
Lost jobs, trade, and standing
One of the most devastating indirect costs of the US alliance with
Israel was the Arab oil boycott of 1973. The Arab states imposed the
boycott in protest of US support of Israel during the 1973 war, in
which Arab countries attacked Israel to try to reclaim lands Israel
had invaded and occupied in 1967.
“Washington’s intervention triggered the Arab oil embargo which cost
the U.S. doubly: first, due to the oil shortfall, the US lost about
$300 billion to $600 billion in GDP; and, second, the US was saddled
with another $450 billion in higher oil import costs,” wrote Stauffer
in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.[18]
Then there’s the cost in lost jobs. “US policy and trade sanctions
reduce US exports to the Middle East about $5 billion a year, costing
70,000 or so American jobs,” Stauffer estimates. “Not requiring Israel
to use its US aid to buy American goods, as is usual in foreign aid,
costs another 125,000 jobs.”[19]
But perhaps the most damaging cost to the US has been its loss of
standing in the Arab and Muslim worlds, where US largesse towards
Israel as it commits human rights violations[20] provokes deep
resentment. “To many of the world’s Muslims, it places the US taxpayer
on the Israeli side of its conflicts with Arabs,” observed the
Associated Press article.[21]
According to Harvard professor Stephen Walt, “The 9/11 Commission
reported that 9/11 plotter Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s ‘animus toward the
United States stemmed not from his experiences there as a student, but
rather from his violent disagreement with US foreign policy favoring
Israel.’ Other anti-American terrorists—such as Ramzi Yousef, who led
the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center—have offered similar
explanations for their anger toward the United States.”[22]
There are many more potential categories of costs that are even more
difficult to quantify. All in all, Stauffer estimates that Israel cost
the US about $1.6 trillion between 1973 and 2003 alone—more than twice
the cost of the Vietnam war.[23]
Costs since Stauffer’s study in 2003
Israel’s cost to American taxpayers has remained high since Stauffer’s
2003 study. The US currently gives Israel an average of $3 billion a
year in military aid, under an agreement signed by the Bush
administration to transfer $30 billion to Israel over ten years,
starting in 2009.[24]
All of the other extras and costs remain and in some cases have
increased since 2003. For example, “Despite a tough economic climate
and expected US budget cuts—including drastic cuts to the US military
budget—US lawmakers will provide $236 million in fiscal 2012 for the
Israeli development of three missile defense programs,” reported
Israeli newspaper Haaretz.[25]
In addition, the US government “has provided $205 million to support
the Iron Dome, manufactured by Israel’s state-owned Raphael Advanced
Defense Systems Ltd. The system uses small radar-guided missiles to
blow up in midair Katyusha-style rockets with ranges of 3 miles to 45
miles, as well as mortar bombs… Legislation moving through the
Republican-controlled US House of Representatives would give Israel
additional $680 million for the Iron Dome system through 2015.”[26]
And if, as many experts believe, the US would not have invaded Iraq
without intense and sustained pressure from Washington insiders who
advocate actively on behalf of Israel,[27] this adds yet another
dimension of staggering cost to the equation: “hundreds of billions of
dollars, 4,000-plus U.S. and allied fatalities, untold tens of
thousands of Iraqi deaths, and many thousands of other US, allied, and
Iraqi casualties,” according to retired US foreign service officer
Shirl McArthur.[28]
Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard professor
Linda Bilmes put the cost of the Iraq War at over $3 trillion, and
incalculably more if you take into account the opportunity costs of
the resources spent on this unproductive war. For example, higher oil
prices due to the war have had a devastating impact on America’s
economy, and so have the surging federal debt and the servicing of
that debt. Without the war, the 2008 financial crisis almost certainly
would not have been as severe, and the Afghanistan war most likely
would have been shorter, cheaper, and more effective.[29]
The Israel lobby and partisans are currently gunning for a war with
Iran with the same zeal they showed in the run-up to the 2003 invasion
of Iraq.[30] By all estimates, the costs of a war with Iran will be
much higher than the Iraq war. In addition to the loss of life,
analysts predict, for example, that if Iran’s oil production were
taken out of the world market, gas prices would rise 25-70 percent.
If the Straits of Hormuz (straits adjacent to Iran through which 20%
of the world’s oil production passes on a daily basis) were attacked
or blockaded, the cost of oil would skyrocket to a level never seen
before, and the economic recession or depression that followed would
be nothing short of “apocalyptic,” according to Matthew Yglesias
writing forSlate .[31]
Reasons and Consequences
So now we are back to the question of why America continues to pour
money into a state that commits daily human rights violations, defies
US strategic interests,[32] provokes rage and resentment among
billions of people,[33] competes with and crowds out US interests
using technology subsidized by US taxpayers, and sells America’s
military secrets to its enemies.[34]
The answer is simple and summed up well by professors Stephen Walt and
John Mearsheimer in their ground-breaking article in the London Review
of Books , “The Israel Lobby,”[35] and their book The Israel Lobby and
US Foreign Policy .[36]
“Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of
many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another
state?” the article asks. “One might assume that the bond between the
two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling
moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the
remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US
provides.
“Instead, the thrust of US policy in the region derives almost
entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the
‘Israel Lobby.’ Other special-interest groups have managed to skew
foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what
the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing
Americans that US interests and those of the other country—in this
case, Israel—are essentially identical.”[37]
AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, is consistently
ranked in the top two most powerful lobbies in Washington.[38] And it
is only one arm of the much larger, multi-faceted, and well-financed
Israel lobby.[39]
According to Congressman Jim Moran, “AIPAC is very well organized. The
members are willing to be very generous with their personal wealth.
But it’s a two edged sword. If you cross AIPAC, AIPAC is unforgiving
and will destroy you politically. Their means of communications, their
ties to certain newspapers and magazines, and individuals in the media
are substantial and intimidating. Every [Congress] member knows it’s
the best-organized national lobbying force.”[40]
Senator Joseph Lieberman proudly stated, “Any attempt to pressure
Israel, to force Israel to the negotiating table by denying Israel
support, will not pass in Congress… Congress will act against any
attempt to do that.”[41]
It’s true: The US Congress, along with the executive branch,
overwhelmingly support virtually any action or wish of the Israeli
government, no matter how at odds with US national interest or
security,[42] primarily because of the power of the Israel lobby.[43]
Even when two AIPAC employees were indicted on espionage charges in
2005, and it was determined that they had obtained classified US
government information illegally and passed it to Israeli agents, the
charges were quietly dropped on technicalities.[44] AIPAC fired both
employees and issued a statement that they were fired because their
actions did not comport with AIPAC standards.[45] One of the fired
employees, Steven Rosen, filed a lawsuit for defamation, claiming his
actions were, in fact, common practice at AIPAC.[46]
When Israel attempted to sink a U.S. Navy ship, the USS Liberty , in
1967, killing 34 Americans and injuring over 170, it still failed to
put a dent in aid to Israel.[47] Indeed, aid quadrupled the following
year.[48]
Though Congressmen receive payments and support from the lobby in
exchange for their loyalty, the American taxpayer is left footing the
bill. As detailed above, the total cost has run from a bare minimum of
$115 billion since 1948 (the cost of foreign aid alone) to $1.6
trillion or more, factoring in Defense appropriations, oil crises, the
sinking of the USS Liberty , the heightened risk of terrorism, lost
trade and co-opted technology, and countless other factors. If the
Iraq war and the increased risk of a war with Iran are factored in,
the cost skyrockets even higher.
Critics point out how much brighter our future would be if we had
invested these billions or trillions in veteran rehabilitation and
care, education, job creation, social security, housing, environmental
clean-up and prevention, roads, bridges, health care, and scientific
and health research. Or if Americans had simply held onto their tax
dollars and used them as they saw fit, in our own economy. If some of
the higher estimates are closer to the mark, our support for Israel
could easily have covered the $700 billion TARP bailout with a great
deal left over for massive stimulus spending and/or tax breaks.
If Israel were using these funds for a good purpose, one could debate
whether the price was worth it. But Israel uses most of the money to
prolong a 45-year military occupation (which regularly involves gross
violations of international law),[49] commit egregious human rights
violations,[50] and destroy billions of dollars worth of Palestinian
homes and infrastructure[51] (resulting in still more U.S. tax money
being sent to Palestinians to rebuild demolished homes, hospitals, and
schools), while building illegal, Jewish-only settlements on
Palestinian land.[52]
It makes the prospect of peace ever more distant, creates dangerous
hostility to the US, placing Americans in peril, and puts the US
Congress in violation of the Arms Export Control Act,[53] all for the
sake of campaign contributions.
There is no good reason to keep throwing good money after bad in a
failed, ill-founded policy. It’s long past time for a fundamental
rethinking of the American government’s blank check to Israel.

Footnotes deleted.

[NEMO]

HHW deleted.

Doctor David Duke deleted.

Footnotes deleted.

Ah, now it smells better ..............

[The Revd]

I can still smell a dirty little jew wog here...that jew stench of
stale sweat, urine, schmaltz herring and garlic.

It's YOU, isn't it, jewbaited jew wog Lambsky!

[NEMO]

'' stench of stale sweat, urine, schmaltz herring and garlic''

Hey, stupid Serb, you're smelling yourself again......

It's a wonder you don't pass out from the smell!.......

(I've never yet met a Serb who knew what soap, deodorant, toothpaste,
mouthwash & clean underwear was for!)

[dusty]

That's and appalling racialist remark. And it's wrong. I know a Serb
who works in a supermarket which sells ALL of the aforementioned
articles. To imagine that he doesn't know what they're FOR is
ridiculous.

On the other hand, I've never known a Jew who sells stale sweat,
urine, schmaltz herring and garlic.

[dusty]

On May 18, 9:27 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
>
> Administrator May 07, 2013 |
> Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
> fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
> affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
> European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
> than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
> is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
> Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
> other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
> has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
> Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
> people.[5]

The fake Jews/Kazars can't answer any of Duke's points so they resort
to abuse. And the more effective is the critic of their beloved Israel-
Rothschildia, the more they defame him.

[dsharavi]

On May 17, 4:27 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
> Administrator May 07, 2013 |
> Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
> fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
> affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
> European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
> than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
> is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
> Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
> other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
> has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
> Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
> people.[5]

I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.

Whatever you imagine (or lie about what) I requested, you really think
another of your articles from David Duke's site will be taken
seriously?

How about posting something of Eichmann's opinions on Jews? Since you
share them, that would be as apropos.

[dsharavi]

> On May 18, 9:27 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans

On May 18, 12:53 am, dusty <trackdu...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> The fake Jews/Kazars can't answer any of Duke's points so they resort
> to abuse. And the more effective is the critic of their beloved Israel-
> Rothschildia, the more they defame him.

From one David Duke fan to another....

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 00:36:34 -0700 (PDT), dusty
<track...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>On May 18, 1:57�pm, NEMO <brianlambsbig...@excite.com> wrote:
>> '' stench of stale sweat, urine, schmaltz herring and garlic''
>>
>> Hey, stupid Serb, you're smelling yourself again......
>>
>> It's a wonder you don't pass out from the smell!.......
>>
>> (I've never yet met a Serb who knew what soap, deodorant, toothpaste,
>> mouthwash & clean underwear was for!)
>
>That's and appalling racialist remark.

Brian, is an appaling racialist innit! <GGG>

[The Peeler]

Do, they psycho?? <BV>

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 12:48:24 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,
psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Fri, 17 May 2013 19:04:18 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
>sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, FAKING his time zone again,
>farted:

>
>>> HHW deleted.
>>>
>>>Doctor David Duke deleted.
>>>
>>> Footnotes deleted.
>>>
>>>Ah, now it smells better ..............
>>
>> I can still smell a dirty little jew wog here...that jew stench of
>> stale sweat, urine, schmaltz herring and garlic.
>>
>> It's YOU, isn't it, jewbaited jew wog Lambsky!
>

>What I am smelling ALL the time is my constantly oozing colostomy under
>my nose, I'm just A hilarious fucked up housebound stinking cripple!

Yes, The Rectu! You ARE innit! <GGG>

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 03:08:38 -0700 (PDT), dsharavi <dsh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Would it, Deborag? <G>

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 03:09:40 -0700 (PDT), dsharavi <dsh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Is it, Deborag? <B>

[HHW]

On May 18, 5:08 am, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 4:27 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
> > Administrator May 07, 2013 |
> > Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
> > fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
> > affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
> > European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
> > than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
> > is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
> > Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
> > other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
> > has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
> > Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
> > people.[5]
>
> I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.

That's what your Goy-baiting about Duke added up to.

> Whatever you imagine (or lie about what) I requested, you really think
> another of your articles from David Duke's site will be taken
> seriously?

You dream of deflecting from what is said in the article to the
messenger. But you can't do that. You can't refute a single word of
it.

> How about posting something of Eichmann's opinions on Jews? Since you
> share them, that would be as apropos.

But Deborah, I'm not interested in "opinions", just the facts as you
always say. You can cuddle up with Eichmann's opinions all you like.

[HHW]

You're not going to get away with using guilt by association to smear
and slander. If it's demonstrably accurate everyone should use it. It
DOESN'T MATTER who wrote it. You technique is abusive, never on the
merits. If it were legitimate I could never quote you.

[drahcir]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 08:12:42 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 18, 5:08�am, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 17, 4:27�pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
>> > Administrator May 07, 2013 |
>> > Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
>> > fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world�s most
>> > affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
>> > European Union.[1] Israel�s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
>> > than America�s 8.2%,[2] and Israel�s net trade, earnings, and payments
>> > is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
>> > Yet, Israel receives more of America�s foreign aid budget than any
>> > other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
>> > has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
>> > Caribbean combined�which have a total population of over a billion
>> > people.[5]
>>
>> I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.
>
>That's what your Goy-baiting about Duke added up to.

LOL! obviously you're not familiar with the definition of "specify".

Hey H, I've posted the below in a few threads, but I want to make sure
that you've seen it, because I couldn't help but notice that you had
no reply. Of course, I can't imagine that a manly man such as yourself
lacks the balls to reply, so I guessed that maybe you missed it. If
so, I'd like to be considerate to you and repost it here.

*****
You're unresponsive to simple proof that, by and large, American Jewry
exhibits no signs of loyalty to any country but America, so you're
going to have to suffer the consequences.

Remember, H, you dared reinstroduce the idea of "dual loyalty". You
therefore deserve the thrashing you're about to receive:

https://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.jewish/msg/7603588266296075?hl=en%EC%A1%AFc95d0367d9&
http://tinyurl.com/a7p58jl

Here is the gist of the above linked-to thread:

The lying scum HHW, or "iconoclast", as the pretentious ass called
himself back then, put this as his subject:

"American Jews determine their political beliefs based on what is best
for Israel rather than the U.S. -- exactly the "dual loyalty"
assumption that, when made by others, this very same faction brands as
anti-Semitic."

The body of his post was an article by Glenn Greenwald that he hoped
the reader would accept as saying what his subject said it said,
which, if someone did not read carefully, might have been the case.

However, here is the context for the line he pulled from the article:

> > > UPDATE II: Here's a perfect example of the glaring double standard
> > > I'm talking about: hard-core GOP loyalists are today promoting this
> > > claim that the tension between the Obama administration and Israel
> > > will cause American Jews to stop voting Democratic and (according to
> > > John Podhoretz) stop donating to Democratic candidates. The
> > > neoconservative Right has been making similar predictions for years
> > > with complete futility, but think about it: what is the core
> > > assumption of such a claim? That American Jews determine their
> > > political beliefs based on what is best for Israel rather than the
> > > U.S. -- exactly the "dual loyalty" assumption that, when made by
> > > others, this very same faction brands as anti-Semitic.

So the author, far from claiming what HHW pulled as the subject is
true, states that it is the CORE ASSUMPTION OF A COMPLETELY FUTILE
PREDICTION.

If you don't believe anyone could possibly be so despicably dishonest,
read the linked-to thread for yourself (from which, by the way, the
manly HHW fled, of course). If there is a soul here who disputes that
HHW, as evidenced by the above, is the single most despicable,
disgusting character who has posted here, please, enlighten me as to
why.

H, just so that we understand one another, any time you try the dual
loyalty crap in this or any other group I read, you're going to get
this thrown out for all the world to see. Got it?

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 17:05:07 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,

psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 06:04:52 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The

>Peeler, wrote:
>
>>>> Hey, stupid Serb, you're smelling yourself again......
>>>>
>>>> It's a wonder you don't pass out from the smell!.......
>>>>
>>>> (I've never yet met a Serb who knew what soap, deodorant, toothpaste,
>>>> mouthwash & clean underwear was for!)
>>>
>>>That's and appalling racialist remark.
>>
>> Brian, is an appaling racialist innit! <GGG>
>

>He described my disgusting Grik character to a T, Radabitch! <BG>

Didn't, he just, The Rectu! To a T! <GG>

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 17:05:41 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,

psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 06:39:40 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The
>Peeler, wrote:
>

>It is, retard!

Is it, The Rectu? <G>

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 17:07:22 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,

psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 06:05:26 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The
>Peeler, wrote:
>

>>>> people.[5]
>>>
>>>
>>>The fake Jews/Kazars can't answer any of Duke's points so they resort
>>>to abuse. And the more effective is the critic of their beloved Israel-
>>>Rothschildia, the more they defame him.
>>
>> Do, they psycho?? <BV>
>

>Don't they, retard? <BG>

Well, do they, The Rectu? <GB>

[The Peeler]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 17:08:23 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,

psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 06:39:23 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The
>Peeler, wrote:
>

>>>Whatever you imagine (or lie about what) I requested, you really think
>>>another of your articles from David Duke's site will be taken
>>>seriously?
>>>
>>>How about posting something of Eichmann's opinions on Jews? Since you
>>>share them, that would be as apropos.
>>
>> Would it, Deborag? <G>
>

>Am I "shining" with my retardation again, as a Grik retard? <BG>

Seems, you ARE, The Rectu! <GB>

[HHW]

Exactly. They will never address, for example, the substance and
political meaning of the very last sentence of the article. It's a
fact which is absolutely inexcusable on its merits----- absent a
discussion of the domestic political environment which makes it
possible. And these swine will never participate in that.

[HHW]

> https://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.jewish/msg/76035882662960...http://tinyurl.com/a7p58jl

Just couldn't wait to get your response?

[drahcir]

I'm still waiting. If you call that pathetic attempt to redeceive a
response, you'll be soon learning otherwise. Essentially, you tried
the old HHWShuffle, but it didn't work. Of course you knew it wouldn't
work - the case against you is far too obvious and strong - but you
felt compelled to try to convince someone in this group that you have
balls by phenagling a reply of some fashion. It was humorous and
pathetic, exactly like its author.

[HHW]

On May 18, 1:52 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2013 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> tdhe old HHWShuffle, but it didn't work. Of course you knew it wouldn't

> work - the case against you is far too obvious and strong -  but you
> felt compelled to try to convince someone in this group that you have
> balls by phenagling a reply of some fashion. It was humorous and
> pathetic, exactly like its author.

Damn, I must have hit discard! Oh well, I'm off to meet the best and
brightest in our circle down in the village for our Saturday comida in
the shade of the palms with a bowl of vindaloo, a shell of Leon and a
Havana. I'll return at leisure for my certain destruction at the hands
of the gallant Miss Ratner, Defender of the neofascist faith,
otherwise known as St. Joan of Tel Aviv, temporarily resident in
Sommerville MA.

[drahcir]

You are PRECIOUS when you've been, to use your term, outed and are
desperately triying to appear cool. calm, and collected. There's
nothing at all cool about being shown a person without principle,
integrity, or honesty. Enjoy your evening.

[dsharavi]

> > On May 17, 4:27 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
> > > Administrator May 07, 2013 |
> > > Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
> > > fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
> > > affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
> > > European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
> > > than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
> > > is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
> > > Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
> > > other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
> > > has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
> > > Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
> > > people.[5]

> On May 18, 5:08 am, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.

On May 18, 8:12 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's what your Goy-baiting about Duke added up to.

I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.

> > Whatever you imagine (or lie about what) I requested, you really think
> > another of your articles from David Duke's site will be taken
> > seriously?

> You dream of deflecting from what is said in the article to the
> messenger. But you can't do that. You can't refute a single word of
> it.

I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.

> > How about posting something of Eichmann's opinions on Jews? Since you
> > share them, that would be as apropos.
>
> But Deborah, I'm not interested in "opinions"

Nor facts, either. But we've known that for a long time. Now -- I

[dsharavi]

On May 18, 8:19 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 18, 5:09 am, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 18, 9:27 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
>
> > On May 18, 12:53 am, dusty <trackdu...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > The fake Jews/Kazars can't answer any of Duke's points so they resort
> > > to abuse. And the more effective is the critic of their beloved Israel-
> > > Rothschildia, the more they defame him.
>
> > From one David Duke fan to another....
>
> You're not going to get away with using guilt by association to smear
> and slander.

There is no smearing, and there is certainly no slander ["slander n.
oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth
about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person
defamed. Slander is a civil wrong (tort) and can be the basis for a
lawsuit."] The FACT remains that "dusty" is a David Duke fan, you are
another, and you're both Jew haters.

[dsharavi]

On May 18, 11:27 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Exactly. They will never address, for example, the substance and
> political meaning of the very last sentence of the article. It's a
> fact which is absolutely inexcusable on its merits----- absent a
> discussion of the domestic political environment which makes it
> possible. And these swine will never participate in that.

Silly billy Hunter finally slipped up and gave the lie to all his
previous wide-eyed bleating liess about his innocence regarding David
Duke and Duke's racist site.

[dsharavi]

And a gallon of tequila, no doubt.

[dsharavi]

On May 18, 1:31 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2013 12:31:20 -0700 (PDT), HHW
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Actually, there's nothing to showing Hunter as "a person without
principle,
integrity, or honesty"; he's shown himself lacking in those areas time
and again over the years.

> Enjoy your evening.

Of course Hunter will enjoy his evening. He'll be smoking and chugging
gallons of tequila in the company of other lily-white slices of his
Wonderbread community.

[dusty]

On May 18, 8:08 pm, dsharavi <dshr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 4:27 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
> > Administrator May 07, 2013 |
> > Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
> > fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
> > affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
> > European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
> > than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
> > is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
> > Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
> > other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
> > has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
> > Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
> > people.[5]
>
> I requested ... what, exactly? Please specify what I requested.
>

> Whatever you imagine (or lie about what) I requested, you really think
> another of your articles from David Duke's site will be taken
> seriously?
>

> How about posting something of Eichmann's opinions on Jews? Since you
> share them, that would be as apropos.

Instead here are some of the views of Hannah Arendt on the Eichmann
Trial:

Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of
Evil
p. 117:
"Without Jewish help in administrative and police work--the final
roundup of Jews in Berlin was, as I have mentioned, done entirely by
Jewish police--there would have been either complete chaos or an
impossibly severe drain on German manpower.

p. 125:
"Wherever Jews lived, there were recognized Jewish leaders, and this
leadership, almost without exception, cooperated in one way or
another, for one reason or another, with the Nazis. The whole truth
was that if the Jewish people had been unorganized and leaderless,
there would have been chaos and plenty of misery but the total number
of victims would hardly have been between four and a half and six
million. According to Freudiger's calculations about half of them
could have saved themselves if they had not followed the instructions
of the Jewish councils."

p. 42, 118, etc.
Rudolf Kastner, a Jew made a deal with Eichmann in which 1,684 Jews
were allowed to go to Palestine in exchange for Kastner's silence
before and during which 476,000 Hungarian Jews were sent to the gas
chambers of Auschwitz.

pp. 217-218 pp. 275-276
"The measures against Eastern Jews were not only the result of anti-
Semitism, they were part and parcel of an all-embracing demographic
policy, in the course of which, had the Germans won the war, the
Poles
would have suffered the same fate as the Jews--genocide. This is no
mere conjecture: the Poles in Germany were already being forced to
wear a distinguishing badge in which the "P" replaced the Jewish
star,
and this, which we have seen, was always the first measure to be
taken
by the police in instituting the process of destruction)."

p. 95:
"...Eichmann knew that right behind the front lines all Russian
functionaries ("Communists"), all Polish members of the professional
classes, and all native Jews were being killed in mass shootings."

pp. 275-276:
"At no point, however, either in the proceedings or the judgment, did
the Jerusalem trial mention even the possibility that extermination
of
whole ethnic groups--the Jews, or the Poles, or the Gypsies--might be
more than a crime against the Jewish or the Polish or the Gypsy
people, that the international order, and mankind in its entirety,
might have been grievously hurt and endangered."

[Neil H.]

In article <744001a3-2655-42e1...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
HHW <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
you'd find better sources.

Neil.

[NoSpamAtAll]

In article <faodp8t8q7hgjq1p3...@4ax.com>,
The Revd <pee...@degenerate.Griks> wrote:

> I want to disinter the Queen Mother and butt-fuck
> her to death again!!

Can someone do something regarding this sick creature? Alert
the authorities, perhaps?

[HHW]

On May 18, 11:02 pm, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> In article <744001a3-2655-42e1-9b0f-aba16451b...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,

[HHW]

On May 18, 11:02 pm, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> In article <744001a3-2655-42e1-9b0f-aba16451b...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>

> HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
> for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
> you'd find better sources.
>
> Neil.

It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry
polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts about
the economic implications of our relationship with Israel which I
strongly believe need public discussion and criticism. It looked
credible to me and I believe in supporting civil rights, especially my
own, in this case the First Amendment, against attempts to stifle free
speech. If the article contained in my judgment something
objectionable to me personally I would have passed it by as a matter
of personal discretion. It didn't. And I won't be told what to think
or say by anyone much less someone like sharavi, a fanatical Zionist
who once published a recipe for braized Palestinian Kid, which meant
child and accused Palestinian families of eating their children which
had been murdered by the Israelis.

So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.

[dsharavi]

On May 18, 9:02 pm, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> In article <744001a3-2655-42e1-9b0f-aba16451b...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>

> HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
> for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
> you'd find better sources.
>
> Neil.

Hunter doesn't want to find better sources. The sources Hunter has --
such as neo-Nazis, convicts, thieves, and anti-American frauds -- are
good enough for Hunter, so long as they hate Jews.

[dsharavi]

On May 18, 10:23 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 18, 11:02 pm, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
>
> > In article <744001a3-2655-42e1-9b0f-aba16451b...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
> > for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
> > you'd find better sources.
>
> > Neil.
>
> It's pretty simple.

Of course it's pretty simple: Hunter Watson hates Jews -- not to
mention women and gays -- and will side with anyone or any
organization which displays hatred of Jews and/or Israel.

> So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.

Yes indeedy, Hunter does just that, such as the time he agreed with
the author of quotes about Jews, without knowing that the author was
Adolf Eichmann. Hunter is the Grand Doofus of the Hooded and Sheeted
set on these NGs.

[Neil H.]

In article <ab052a03-d2ca-4202...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

HHW <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
>> for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
>> you'd find better sources.

> It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry
> polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts

So you *did* check the facts before posting? Really? Or do you
simply trust the words of a neo-Nazi, Holocaust denier, and
convicted criminal, who stole money from his gullible followers,
and did time in jail for that?

> So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.

Yes, but that's not the issue, not even remotely.

Neil.

[dsharavi]

On May 18, 10:35 pm, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> In article <ab052a03-d2ca-4202-ba2f-082d84ee5...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

>
> HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
> >> for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
> >> you'd find better sources.
> > It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry
> > polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts
>
> So you *did* check the facts before posting?

No.

>Really?

Really. Check the thread "Dr Elhaik Back in the News" posted by
Hunter. It contradicts everything Hunter's been posting about Elhaik
for over a month.

> Or do you
> simply trust the words of a neo-Nazi, Holocaust denier, and
> convicted criminal, who stole money from his gullible followers,
> and did time in jail for that?

Hunter simply trusts the words of a neo-Nazi, Holocaust denier, and

convicted criminal, who stole money from his gullible followers,

and did time in jail for that -- so long as the neo-Nazi in question
hates Jews.

> > So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.
>
> Yes, but that's not the issue, not even remotely.
> Neil.

But Hunter does not care about issues, not even remotely.

[drahcir]

H, can I ask a technical question? Why do you so often post empty
replies? Is it a senior moment thing (although this seems to be way
beyond moments), or is it supposed to accomplish something? I'd truly
like to know.

[drahcir]

Neil, first of all,welcome. Just so that you know, HHW is a very
deceptive member here. He will atempt to change the subject when he is
not comfortable. Just stay the course and eventually he will flee. He
will, however, NEVER come clean, so don't hold your breath.

[Neil H.]

In article <dijhp8t25eh3g7dqo...@4ax.com>,

drahcir <sg...@sgscc.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 May 2013 21:53:24 -0700 (PDT), HHW
> <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

> H, can I ask a technical question? Why do you so often post empty
> replies?

Why complain? These are his best posts! :)

Neil.

[drahcir]

Reminds me of a story. After a concert conducted by Stravinsky of his
own music, an audience member went backstage to congatulate the
composer. After the adulation, he said, "Maestro, have you heard about
the new John Cage 'piece' where the pianist just sits there for a few
minutes and doesn't play a note? Don't you think that is an outrage?"
To which Igor replied, "Nyet! On the contrary, I think it's the best
thing he ever wrote!"

[The Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:10:06 +0000 (UTC), Neil H.
<neilis...@not-home-today.org> wrote:

Are they, psycho? Are you, a Jewish perso too? <G>

[The Peeler]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 19:48:47 +0200, The Rectu, the resident,
psychopath of sci and scj, FAKING his time zone, again and
IMPERSONATING his master, The Peeler, wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2013 09:39:52 -0700, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
>sci and scj, FAKING his time zone again and IMPERSONATING his master, The

>Peeler, wrote:
>
>
>>>> H, can I ask a technical question? Why do you so often post empty
>>>> replies?
>>>
>>>Why complain? These are his best posts! :)
>>>
>>>Neil.
>>

>> Are they, psycho? Are you, a Jewish person too? <G>
>
>What's it like for me leading the "life" of a total retard? <BG>

What IS it like, The Rectu? <GB>

[HHW]

It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry

polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts about
the economic implications of our relationship with Israel which I
strongly believe need public discussion and criticism. It looked
credible to me and I believe in supporting civil rights, especially
my
own, in this case the First Amendment, against attempts to stifle
free
speech. If the article contained in my judgment something
objectionable to me personally I would have passed it by as a matter
of personal discretion. It didn't. And I won't be told what to think
or say by anyone much less someone like sharavi, a fanatical Zionist
who once published a recipe for braized Palestinian Kid, which meant
child and accused Palestinian families of eating their children which
had been murdered by the Israelis.

[HHW]

On May 19, 12:35 am, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> In article <ab052a03-d2ca-4202-ba2f-082d84ee5...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

>
> HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
> >> for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
> >> you'd find better sources.
> > It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry
> > polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts
>
> So you *did* check the facts before posting?

What happened to my explanation? Here it is again.

It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry

polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts about
the economic implications of our relationship with Israel which I
strongly believe need public discussion and criticism. It looked
credible to me and I believe in supporting civil rights, especially
my
own, in this case the First Amendment, against attempts to stifle
free
speech. If the article contained in my judgment something
objectionable to me personally I would have passed it by as a matter
of personal discretion. It didn't. And I won't be told what to think
or say by anyone much less someone like sharavi, a fanatical Zionist
who once published a recipe for braized Palestinian Kid, which meant
child and accused Palestinian families of eating their children which
had been murdered by the Israelis.

So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.


Really? Or do you
> simply trust the words of a neo-Nazi, Holocaust denier, and
> convicted criminal, who stole money from his gullible followers,
> and did time in jail for that?

I trust my own judgment and experience. The article passed that test.
*If you differ on the accuracy of the facts involved*, something I've
been interested in for many years, or simply want to bitch about its
provenance, speak up. I'd love to discuss it in the bright light of
day. What's really at issue here is whether Zionist activists, such as
you most probably, are going to get away with smearing critics of
American policy regarding Israel using the fallacy of guilt by
association. And that's exactly what you do here. So unless you've got
some credible evidence which discredits the article itself, I suggese
you find some.

By the way, I went back to the site and found that it may not be by
Duke at all, but someone by the title of "administrator". Now where do
you go via guilt by association? Shall it be multi-leveled?

> > So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.
>
> Yes, but that's not the issue, not even remotely.

Ha, yes it certainly is. There is an immense struggle going on in the
United States which I sense you are well aware of over domination of
the dialogue regarding the nature of our relationship with with our so-
called ally, Israel. I'm involved in that. So, I am presuming, are
you, just on the opposite side.

[drahcir]

H, I just wanted to again give you my heartfelt thanks for posting
this dismissal of Elhaik.

http://tinyurl.com/beozfwd

I think the group owes you a debt of gratitude for setting the record
straight. I'll be frank - I would not have found this stunning
refutation of Elhaik, given that I wasn't looking for it. But you
saved us all the trouble, and it's great that we can finally stop
discussing the silly Khazar theory and move on to other, much more
important things, like, for instance, this:

http://tinyurl.com/baq4lbc

[plainolamerican]

On May 17, 6:27 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans
>
> Administrator May 07, 2013 |
> Israel has a population of approximately 7.7 million, or a million
> fewer than the state of New Jersey. It is among the world’s most
> affluent nations, with a per capita income similar to that of the
> European Union.[1] Israel’s unemployment rate of 6.3% is much better
> than America’s 8.2%,[2] and Israel’s net trade, earnings, and payments
> is ranked 146th in the world while the US sits at a dismal 193rd.[3]
> Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any
> other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it
> has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the
> Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion
> people.[5]
>

> And foreign aid is just one component of the staggering cost of our
> alliance with Israel.
> Given the tremendous costs, it is critical to examine why we lavish so
> much aid on Israel, and whether it is worth Americans’ hard-earned tax
> dollars. But first, let’s take a look at what our alliance with Israel
> truly costs.
> Before the Iraq War in 2003
> Direct Foreign Aid
> According to the Congressional Research Service , the amount of
> official US aid to Israel since its founding in 1948 tops $115
> billion, and in the past few decades it has been on the order of $3
> billion per year.[6] (In 2013, for example, this amounted to over $8.5
> million every single day.)
> But this money is only part of the story. For one thing, Israel gets
> all of its aid money at the start of each year, rather than in
> quarterly installments like other countries.[7] This is significant:
> It means that Israel can start earning interest on the money right
> away – interest paid by the US since Israel invests these funds in US
> Treasury notes. In addition, because the US government operates at a
> deficit, it must borrow money in order to give it to Israel and then
> pay interest on it all year. Together these cost US taxpayers more
> than $100 million every year.
> Israel is also the only recipient of US military aid that is allowed
> to use a significant portion annually to purchase products made by
> Israeli companies instead of US companies. (The costs to Americans
> caused by this unique perk are discussed below.)
> In addition, the US gives roughly $1.6 billion per year to Egypt and
> Jordan in aid packages arranged largely in exchange for peace treaties
> with Israel. The treaties don’t include justice for Palestinians, and
> are therefore deeply unpopular with the local populations.[8]
> On top of this, the US gives more than $400 million to the Palestinian
> Authority each year,[9] much of it used to rebuild infrastructure
> destroyed by Israel and to bolster an economy stifled by the Israeli
> occupation.[10] This would be unnecessary if Israel were to end the
> occupation and allow the Palestinians to build a functioning and self-
> sustaining economy.
> Yet, there’s still much more to the story, because parts of US aid to
> Israel are buried in the budgets of various US agencies, mostly the
> Department of Defense. For example, since at least 2006, the American
> Defense budget has included between $130 and $235 million per year for
> missile defense programs in Israel.[11]
> In all, direct US disbursements to Israel are higher than to any other
> country, even though Israelis only make up 0.1% of the world’s
> population. On average, Israelis receive 7,000 times more US foreign
> aid per capita than other people throughout the world, despite the
> fact that Israel is one of the world’s more affluent nations.[12] And
> that number rises significantly when one considers disbursements to
> Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority and Defense spending on
> behalf of Israel.
> Additional Ad hoc support for Israel
> Dr. Thomas Stauffer, a Harvard economist and Middle East studies
> professor who twice served in the Executive Office of the President,
> wrote a comprehensive report about all components of the relationship
> with Israel’s cost to American taxpayers for theWashington Report on
> Middle East Affairs in 2003. He wrote:
> “Another element is ad hoc support for Israel, which is not part of
> the formal foreign aid programs. No comprehensive compilation of US
> support for Israel has been publicly released. Additional known items
> include loan guarantees… special contracts for Israeli firms, legal
> and illegal[13] transfers of marketable US military technology, de
> facto exemption from US trade protection provisions, and discounted
> sales or free transfers of ‘surplus’ US military equipment. An
> unquantifiable element is the trade and other aid given to Romania and
> Russia to facilitate Jewish migration to Israel; this has accumulated
> to many billions of dollars.”[14]
> Israel has often used its privileged access to US military technology
> against both the US government and US corporate interests. According
> to the Associated Press in 2002,
> “In France, Turkey, The Netherlands and Finland, Israeli companies
> have edged such U.S. firms as Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and General
> Atomics out of arms deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars in
> recent years. The irony, experts say, is that tens of billions of U.S.
> tax dollars and transfers of American military technology helped
> create and nurture Israel’s industry, in effect subsidizing a foreign
> competitor.”
> The AP article quoted a vice president at the Aerospace Industries
> Association of America, who bluntly said, “We give them money to build
> stuff for themselves and the U.S. taxpayer gets nothing in
> return.”[15]
> Meanwhile, according to the Christian Science Monitor , Israel has
> also “blocked some major US arms sales, such as F-15 fighter aircraft
> to Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s. That cost $40 billion over 10
> years.”[16]
> Even worse, Israeli weapons “buttress the arsenals of nations such as
> China that the United States considers strategic competitors, alarming
> US military planners,” theAssociated Press article went on to report.
> “[In 2001] US surveillance planes flying along China’s coast were
> threatened by Chinese fighter jets armed with Israeli missiles… Had
> Chinese fighter pilots been given the order to fire, they could have
> brought down the US planes with Israeli Python III missiles… US
> defense chiefs say Israel sold China the missiles without informing
> the United States.”[17]
> Lost jobs, trade, and standing
> One of the most devastating indirect costs of the US alliance with
> Israel was the Arab oil boycott of 1973. The Arab states imposed the
> boycott in protest of US support of Israel during the 1973 war, in
> which Arab countries attacked Israel to try to reclaim lands Israel
> had invaded and occupied in 1967.
> “Washington’s intervention triggered the Arab oil embargo which cost
> the U.S. doubly: first, due to the oil shortfall, the US lost about
> $300 billion to $600 billion in GDP; and, second, the US was saddled
> with another $450 billion in higher oil import costs,” wrote Stauffer
> in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.[18]
> Then there’s the cost in lost jobs. “US policy and trade sanctions
> reduce US exports to the Middle East about $5 billion a year, costing
> 70,000 or so American jobs,” Stauffer estimates. “Not requiring Israel
> to use its US aid to buy American goods, as is usual in foreign aid,
> costs another 125,000 jobs.”[19]
> But perhaps the most damaging cost to the US has been its loss of
> standing in the Arab and Muslim worlds, where US largesse towards
> Israel as it commits human rights violations[20] provokes deep
> resentment. “To many of the world’s Muslims, it places the US taxpayer
> on the Israeli side of its conflicts with Arabs,” observed the
> Associated Press article.[21]
> According to Harvard professor Stephen Walt, “The 9/11 Commission
> reported that 9/11 plotter Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s ‘animus toward the
> United States stemmed not from his experiences there as a student, but
> rather from his violent disagreement with US foreign policy favoring
> Israel.’ Other anti-American terrorists—such as Ramzi Yousef, who led
> the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center—have offered similar
> explanations for their anger toward the United States.”[22]
> There are many more potential categories of costs that are even more
> difficult to quantify. All in all, Stauffer estimates that Israel cost
> the US about $1.6 trillion between 1973 and 2003 alone—more than twice
> the cost of the Vietnam war.[23]
> Costs since Stauffer’s study in 2003
> Israel’s cost to American taxpayers has remained high since Stauffer’s
> 2003 study. The US currently gives Israel an average of $3 billion a
> year in military aid, under an agreement signed by the Bush
> administration to transfer $30 billion to Israel over ten years,
> starting in 2009.[24]
> All of the other extras and costs remain and in some cases have
> increased since 2003. For example, “Despite a tough economic climate
> and expected US budget cuts—including drastic cuts to the US military
> budget—US lawmakers will provide $236 million in fiscal 2012 for the
> Israeli development of three missile defense programs,” reported
> Israeli newspaper Haaretz.[25]
> In addition, the US government “has provided $205 million to support
> the Iron Dome, manufactured by Israel’s state-owned Raphael Advanced
> Defense Systems Ltd. The system uses small radar-guided missiles to
> blow up in midair Katyusha-style rockets with ranges of 3 miles to 45
> miles, as well as mortar bombs… Legislation moving through the
> Republican-controlled US House of Representatives would give Israel
> additional $680 million for the Iron Dome system through 2015.”[26]
> And if, as many experts believe, the US would not have invaded Iraq
> without intense and sustained pressure from Washington insiders who
> advocate actively on behalf of Israel,[27] this adds yet another
> dimension of ...
>
> read more »

The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans

---
the extortion must end.
not a single star on the US flag represents israel.
we should be funding Peurto Rico and our other properties instead of a
country that has killed our soldiers, extorted our politicians, and
sells our technology to our competitors.

[HHW]

On May 19, 8:08 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 05:35:37 +0000 (UTC), Neil H.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> >In article <ab052a03-d2ca-4202-ba2f-082d84ee5...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

> >HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Why quote a neo-Nazi who's also a convict who did jail time
> >>> for theaft and fraud? Surely, if you had a viable point,
> >>> you'd find better sources.
>
> >> It's pretty simple. The article contained no hot buttons, no angry
> >> polemics, no racist insults, nothing but a compendium of facts
>
> >So you *did* check the facts before posting? Really? Or do you
> >simply trust the words of a neo-Nazi, Holocaust denier, and
> >convicted criminal, who stole money from his gullible followers,
> >and did time in jail for that?
>
> >> So, sir, I decide what I say and post here, no one else.
>
> >Yes, but that's not the issue, not even remotely.
>
> >Neil.
>
> Neil, first of all,welcome. Just so that you know, HHW is a very
> deceptive member here. He will atempt to change the subject when he is
> not comfortable. Just stay the course and eventually he will flee. He
> will, however, NEVER come clean, so don't hold your breath.

A pack of lies, Ratner.

[HHW]

On May 19, 8:10 am, Neil H. <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> In article <dijhp8t25eh3g7dqouc0med4snpo2i3...@4ax.com>,

>
> drahcir  <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 May 2013 21:53:24 -0700 (PDT), HHW
> > <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > H, can I ask a technical question? Why do you so often post empty
> > replies?
>
> Why complain? These are his best posts!  :)
>
> Neil.

Get serious, Neil.

[HHW]

On May 19, 8:30 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:10:06 +0000 (UTC), Neil H.
>

> <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> >In article <dijhp8t25eh3g7dqouc0med4snpo2i3...@4ax.com>,

> >drahcir  <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 18 May 2013 21:53:24 -0700 (PDT), HHW
> >> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >[...]
>
> >> H, can I ask a technical question? Why do you so often post empty
> >> replies?
>
> >Why complain? These are his best posts!  :)
>
> >Neil.
>
> Reminds me of a story. After a concert conducted by Stravinsky of his
> own music, an audience member went backstage to congatulate the
> composer. After the adulation, he said, "Maestro, have you heard about
> the new John Cage 'piece' where the pianist just sits there for a few
> minutes and doesn't play a note? Don't you think that is an outrage?"
> To which Igor replied, "Nyet! On the contrary, I think it's the best
> thing he ever wrote!"

Reminds me of the story of you as an aspirant Maestro.

[drahcir]

I've told you so many times, I do not lie. I have never lied in this
group. I try not to ever lie in my life, but rarely I choose to as the
lesser of evils. For you, lying iis a way of life - sometimes I'm
notsure whether you're even aware that you're lying. I've proven you a
liar here on many occasions - proof beyond any doubt. Anyone is free
to do a Google Groups advance search to verify. So when you talk about
packs of lies, I'm sure everyone here except newcomers like Neil knows
exactly how much credence to give you. And he'll figure it out very
quickly.

[drahcir]

Thanks for asking. Things are going quite well in that regard. I'd
inform you of my next performance, but it's not your cup of tea. It's
art music, somethng about which you've apparently made significant
effort to remain ignorant of.

[drahcir]

What, you mean you disagree with him?

[Zev]

Another lie, Hunter.

[HHW]

And how would you know that?

[HHW]

[HHW]

On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Are you Ashkenazi a population isolate, Zev? Where do you stand on
that and on Elhaik's rejection of the Rhineland Hypothesis? You've
been pretty quiet.

[HHW]

("I am not a crook!" RMN)

[HHW]

On May 20, 7:15 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

You, a man of culture and refinement?! That's far less possible than
even the ski jumping fantasy.

[HHW]

I mean that I hope to engage him on some serious subject. I want a
test run. So far he's a run away.

[HHW]

On May 20, 7:13 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

Another pack of lies, Ratner. I define them broadly so there is no eel
room for wriggling.

[Zev]

I gave you an example to show you why the whole issue is marginal.
You ran away from it.
I asked you why a growth rate of 1% is "miraculous".
You ran away from it.
I asked you about Yiddish.
You ran away from it.
You've been asked why peers ignore it or openly oppose it.
You run away from it.

After all that, you say I've been quiet?

[drahcir]

LOL!

[drahcir]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 01:46:30 -0700 (PDT), Zev <zev_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I think it's great that a person of his age can still run that way!

[drahcir]

ONce you tried to disparage my music. It was crystal clear you hadn't
the foggiest idea what you were talking about.

[drahcir]

Um, the above makes no sense. ARe you in need of a dose of meds?

[plainolamerican]

On May 20, 7:15 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

art music
---
got any samples of your music?

have you ever seen Oz Noy play?
I met him a while back. Very nice guy.

[HHW]

On May 20, 7:13 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

But you do not tell the truth. How do you explain this paradox?

[HHW]

On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Where have you been, Zev? This is your field of honor.

[drahcir]

No paradox. You're mistaken. Or lying. Everything I've posted to this
group has been the truth, except on the rare occasion where I have
erred, in which case I have freely admitted it. The fact that you
might not like it, of course, especially when it's the truth about
you, is irrelevant.

You helpless, ball-less weakling - I've challenged you so many times
to prove me a liar - you've never even tried. Everyone here knows what
will happen if I ask you to prove that I "do not tell the truth",
right? Don't you feel impotent, H? So powerless to do anything about
my proving you a liar, and unable to exact revenge! It must be a
terrible feeling, but one I'm sure your years have inured you to.

[HHW]

On May 21, 3:46 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 9:23 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On May 21, 2:36 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 19, 8:08 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 19 May 2013 05:35:37 +0000 (UTC), Neil H.
> > > > > <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
> > > > > >In article <ab052a03-d2ca-4202-ba2f-082d84ee5...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > >HHW  <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm going to respond to this based on my overall position here, so
occasionally it won't be literally somehing which came up between us,
which has been pretty sparse in any event..

> > Are you Ashkenazi  a population isolate, Zev? Where do you stand on
> > that and on Elhaik's rejection of the Rhineland Hypothesis? You've
> > been pretty quiet.
>
> I gave you an example to show you why the whole issue is marginal.

That's a clear sign that you see the handwriting on the wall and doubt
that Elhaik can be overthrown. So the question is going to be can you
finesse it somehow and control the dialogue on it here in the U.S. The
U.S. is all that matters. If you can't prevent major changes in
attitude regarding Israeli entitlement here, Israel will have to
change. Perhaps from that you can see why it is that Americans who
understand the situation are so angry with your determination to shut
down debate on such things here.

I've shown that it is absolutely central to the credibility of your
ideology which has been built around a right of return to Palestine
for lineal descendants of Judeans under an analogy to jus sanguinis.
You are not Judean or Cananite, Zev. You descend primarily from
Persian, Turkic, Caucasian, Slavic, Mongol and European strains with a
tiny admixture of the Middle East which is not necessarily Israelite.

> I asked you why a growth rate of 1% is "miraculous".

But that very term was first used by Jewish scientists who supported
the Israeli patriotic narrative and it is still being used by none
other than Dr. Harry Ostrer. It's purpose was to paper-over a huge
gap in the patriotic narrative which is now exposed for all to see.

> I asked you about Yiddish.

And I explained Wexler. You're just on the losing side of this. Why
losing? Ask the Jewish physicians trying to treat Jewish genetic
diseases who have been given nonsense to work with on the altar of the
Israeli national mythos. They're scientists and thay full well know
that it's garbage in, garbage out.

> You've been asked why peers ignore it or openly oppose it.

And I pointed out the ideological science of the peers and the fact
that they have not yet addressed Elhaik. So much for open opposition.
And how will ignoring this brilliant Jewish scientist Elhaik go down
with the brilliant Jewish physicians faced with treating some forty
Jewish genetic diseases? Are you suggesting that should your own
family need such treatment or counseling there would be a two track
approach, one, a confidential medical course following Elhaik and
another, a politically correct course for the politicians and to
confuse the Goyim?

And I've asked what Israel's goals are in Palestine.
I've asked what Israel's borders are.
I've asked why you insist on Palestinians and Americans paying for
Hitlers crimes against Khazaris..
I've asked why you've driven us into wars you don't fight yourselves.
I've asked you to acknowledge why we can not be associated with you on
Muslim battlefields.
More particularly, I've asked why in fighting your wars we are unable
to use your military. Some ally you are.

> After all that, you say I've been quiet?

Yes, very. You don't seem to like dealing with the central problems
much. Perhaps that would not be so true if I weren't here.

[HHW]

Perhaps if you made more than a tiny snippet of it available on the
internet?

[HHW]

[drahcir]

There's way more than a snippet. WHat does it matter, H? you have as
much art in you as I have farming in me.

[drahcir]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 13:36:50 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 21, 3:46�am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 21, 9:23�am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On May 21, 12:38�am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > On May 21, 2:36�am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > > On May 19, 8:08�am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
>> > > > > On Sun, 19 May 2013 05:35:37 +0000 (UTC), Neil H.
>> > > > > <neilisnoth...@not-home-today.org> wrote:
>> > > > > >In article <ab052a03-d2ca-4202-ba2f-082d84ee5...@g9g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>> > > > > >HHW �<coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I'm going to respond to this based on my overall position here, so
>occasionally it won't be literally somehing which came up between us,
>which has been pretty sparse in any event..
>
>> > Are you Ashkenazi �a population isolate, Zev? Where do you stand on
>> > that and on Elhaik's rejection of the Rhineland Hypothesis? You've
>> > been pretty quiet.
>>
>> I gave you an example to show you why the whole issue is marginal.
>
>That's a clear sign that you see the handwriting on the wall and doubt
>that Elhaik can be overthrown.

Elhaik can't be overthrown because he is neither a king nor an
infielder. However, it was clear from the article that YOU posted that
Elhaik is regarded as a joke (one-off is a polite word for "joke") by
every expert in field of population genetics who knows anything at all
about Jews.

[HHW]

> gap  in the narrative which is now exposed for all to see.

[Zev]

Here, I don't deal with "central problems".
I deal only with the articles you've presented of and about
this largely ignored (or worse) " brilliant Jewish scientist".

All you do is assume, with little support, that he's right,
and go on with your rants about your agenda.

[drahcir]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:20:03 -0700 (PDT), Zev <zev_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I'd say there's nothing in what you've said above that is even
slightly open to dispute.

[HHW]

That's because those central problems are those of the United States,
your original but now secondary country?

> I deal only with the articles you've presented of and about
> this largely ignored (or worse) " brilliant Jewish scientist".

> All you do is assume, with little support, that he's right,
> and go on with your rants about your agenda.

So you find my tone inappropriate? Does it compare unfavorably with
that of your teammates, Ratner and sharavi?

There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?

And as to support for Dr. Elhaik, they include Wexler, Koestler,
Shlomo Sand and the Dutch guy (Slater?) who writes about the
population problems with your now defunct Rhineland Hypothesis.. And
you are ignoring the fact that Elhaik named names in his article, none
of which has responded to his work. If I am wrong, please straighten
me out. Tell us, Zev, if the Rhinelanders don't follow-up, who are the
physicians treating the genetic diseases of the Ashkenazi going to
heed? Don't these men have an ethical obligation to follow-up on
Elhaik's work? Is this not a serious matter?

[HHW]

On May 22, 7:04 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:20:03 -0700 (PDT), Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com>

You should have waited for my last post.

[drahcir]

Oh yeah I'm really sorry I missed what a proven liar who is such a
complete idiot, he posted something completely antithetical to his own
position has to say.

[drahcir]

He didn't say a word about your "tone", moron. LEARN TO READ. He's
speaking about the fact that you take the positions you do, not
becuase you find them the most plausible, but becuase they fit your
agenda. Understand now, MORON, or do you need further assistance?

[Zev]

On May 22, 10:06 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 12:20 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On May 21, 11:36 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On May 21, 3:46 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 21, 9:23 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On May 21, 2:36 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 19, 8:08 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

> > Here, I don't deal with "central problems".
>
> That's because those central problems are those of the United States,
> your original but now secondary country?

No, it's because I'm waiting for your responses
to my posts on political issues,
including one you promised,
more than once, to respond to.

> There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?

My agenda is about what the Messiah will do to anti-Semites.

Would you like to discuss it?

> And as to support for Dr. Elhaik, they include Wexler, Koestler,
> Shlomo Sand and the Dutch guy (Slater?) who writes about the
> population problems with your now defunct Rhineland Hypothesis.. And
> you are ignoring the fact that Elhaik named names in his article, none
> of which has responded to his work. If I am wrong, please straighten
> me out.

I've raised questions.
Your only response is an appeal to doubtful authority.

> Tell us, Zev, if the Rhinelanders don't follow-up, who are the
> physicians treating the genetic diseases of the Ashkenazi going to
> heed? Don't these men have an ethical obligation to follow-up on
> Elhaik's work? Is this not a serious matter?

Genetic diseases are over my head,
but if you think those physicians are unethical, tell them that.

[HHW]

On May 23, 1:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 10:06 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 22, 12:20 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On May 21, 11:36 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 21, 3:46 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On May 21, 9:23 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 21, 2:36 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On May 19, 8:08 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> > > Here, I don't deal with "central problems".
>
> > That's because those central problems are those of the United States,
> > your original but now secondary country?
>
> No, it's because I'm waiting for your responses
> to my posts on political issues,
> including one you promised,
> more than once, to respond to.

Restate them. I guarantee you a response. I'm too busy, apparently, to
give you the care you need, but I'll try harder.

> > There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?
>
> My agenda is about what the Messiah will do to anti-Semites.
> Would you like to discuss it?

Yes, very much. What will the Messiah do to (1) anti-Semites and (2)
racist Jews. Please begin in your follow-up post.

>
> > And as to support for Dr. Elhaik, they include Wexler, Koestler,
> > Shlomo Sand and the Dutch guy (Slater?) who writes about the
> > population problems with your now defunct Rhineland Hypothesis.. And
> > you are ignoring the fact that Elhaik named names in his article, none
> > of which has responded to his work. If I am wrong, please straighten
> > me out.
>
> I've raised questions.
> Your only response is an appeal to doubtful authority.

Celestial authority is the most doubtful of all. He seems to have gone
out of business thousands of years ago.

>
> > Tell us, Zev, if the Rhinelanders don't follow-up, who are the
> > physicians treating the genetic diseases of the Ashkenazi going to
> > heed? Don't these men have an ethical obligation to follow-up on
> > Elhaik's work? Is this not a serious matter?
>
> Genetic diseases are over my head,

Evasive. The principles involved are of medical and scientific ethics.
Perhaps you'd like them to be over your head but it's not the case.

> but if you think those physicians are unethical, tell them that.

Is Elhaik a physician? I don't think so. Don't physicians consult
geneticists? Physicians are his colleagues in the broad sense, but I'd
be surprised if he treats or consults with patients. Help us here,
don't these two disciplines work together as the treatment and
counseling of the afflicted or potentially afflicted evolve? Are the
patients to be treated with imaginary history and presumed isolates?
Well, no. You can't let that happen. They will not be pleased. Neither
will the medical authorities. Elhaik already has laid down the law so
far as genetics is concerned. The medical profession must follow.

[drahcir]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT), HHW
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Guess you "forgot" that all of the mentioned supporters of Elhaik are
completely discredited, with the possible exception of "the dutch
guy".

And
>you are ignoring the fact that Elhaik named names in his article, none
>of which has responded to his work.

Um, yes, they have, in an article trouncing Elhaik that YOU posted
because you can't keep track of what you do.

If I am wrong, please straighten
>me out. Tell us, Zev, if the Rhinelanders don't follow-up,

What does "if the rhinelanders don't follow up" supposed to mean?

who are the
>physicians treating the genetic diseases of the Ashkenazi going to
>heed?

Quite a quiestion. Reeks, absolutely stinks, of the fact that the
asker hasn't the foggiest clue what he's talking about. But now you're
obliged to flesh it out, H. Enmeshed in the above gobbledegook you're
trying to pass off as a sentence, is something about genetic diseases.
Please do elaborate about PRECISELY how Elhaik's work affects genetic
diseases in the slightest.

Don't these men have an ethical obligation to follow-up on
>Elhaik's work? Is this not a serious matter?

You tell the group, H. Let's see if there's anything behind the
incmoprehensible crap you've just posted.
>
>
>
>
>

[Zev]

On May 24, 1:42 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 1:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On May 22, 10:06 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On May 22, 12:20 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 21, 11:36 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On May 21, 3:46 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On May 21, 9:23 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On May 21, 2:36 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On May 19, 8:08 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:

> > > > Here, I don't deal with "central problems".
>
> > > That's because those central problems are those of the United States,
> > > your original but now secondary country?
>
> > No, it's because I'm waiting for your responses
> > to my posts on political issues,
> > including one you promised,
> > more than once, to respond to.
>
> Restate them. I guarantee you a response. I'm too busy, apparently, to
> give you the care you need, but I'll try harder.

They're OK as they are.
Start with the one you promised.

> > > There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?
>
> > My agenda is about what the Messiah will do to anti-Semites.
> > Would you like to discuss it?
>
> Yes, very much. What will the Messiah do to (1) anti-Semites and (2)
> racist Jews. Please begin in your follow-up post.

Learn all you can about Gog and Magog,
so we'll be on the same page.

> > > And as to support for Dr. Elhaik, they include Wexler, Koestler,
> > > Shlomo Sand and the Dutch guy (Slater?) who writes about the
> > > population problems with your now defunct Rhineland Hypothesis.. And
> > > you are ignoring the fact that Elhaik named names in his article, none
> > > of which has responded to his work. If I am wrong, please straighten
> > > me out.
>
> > I've raised questions.
> > Your only response is an appeal to doubtful authority.
>
> Celestial authority is the most doubtful of all. He seems to have gone
> out of business thousands of years ago.

He seems to have re-opened 65 years ago.

> > > Tell us, Zev, if the Rhinelanders don't follow-up, who are the
> > > physicians treating the genetic diseases of the Ashkenazi going to
> > > heed? Don't these men have an ethical obligation to follow-up on
> > > Elhaik's work? Is this not a serious matter?
>
> > Genetic diseases are over my head,
>
> Evasive. The principles involved are of medical and scientific ethics.
> Perhaps you'd like them to be over your head but it's not the case.
>
> > but if you think those physicians are unethical, tell them that.
>
> Is Elhaik a physician? I don't think so. Don't physicians consult
> geneticists? Physicians are his colleagues in the broad sense, but I'd
> be surprised if he treats or consults with patients. Help us here,
> don't these two disciplines work together as the treatment and
> counseling of the afflicted or potentially afflicted evolve? Are the
> patients to be treated with imaginary history and presumed isolates?
> Well, no. You can't let that happen. They will not be pleased. Neither
> will the medical authorities. Elhaik already has laid down the law so
> far as genetics is concerned. The medical profession must follow.

I missed the part where you explain why it's unethical
to reject an apparently mistaken hypothesis.

[HHW]

On May 24, 12:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 1:42 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 23, 1:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On May 22, 10:06 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 22, 12:20 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On May 21, 11:36 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On May 21, 3:46 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 21, 9:23 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On May 21, 12:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On May 21, 2:36 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 8:08 am, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> > > > > Here, I don't deal with "central problems".
>
> > > > That's because those central problems are those of the United States,
> > > > your original but now secondary country?
>
> > > No, it's because I'm waiting for your responses
> > > to my posts on political issues,
> > > including one you promised,
> > > more than once, to respond to.
>
> > Restate them. I guarantee you a response. I'm too busy, apparently, to
> > give you the care you need, but I'll try harder.
>
> They're OK as they are.
> Start with the one you promised.

I see, you don't really want a reply. You prefer that I not reply so
that you can avoid dealing with me.

>
> > > > There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?
>
> > > My agenda is about what the Messiah will do to anti-Semites.
> > > Would you like to discuss it?
>
> > Yes, very much. What will the Messiah do to (1) anti-Semites and (2)
> > racist Jews. Please begin in your follow-up post.
>
> Learn all you can about Gog and Magog,
> so we'll be on the same page.

What have Gog and Magog to do with Israel withdrawing from the West
Bank?

> > > > And as to support for Dr. Elhaik, they include Wexler, Koestler,
> > > > Shlomo Sand and the Dutch guy (Slater?) who writes about the
> > > > population problems with your now defunct Rhineland Hypothesis.. And
> > > > you are ignoring the fact that Elhaik named names in his article, none
> > > > of which has responded to his work. If I am wrong, please straighten
> > > > me out.
>
> > > I've raised questions.
> > > Your only response is an appeal to doubtful authority.
>
> > Celestial authority is the most doubtful of all. He seems to have gone
> > out of business thousands of years ago.
>
> He seems to have re-opened 65 years ago.

I see nothing miraculous about Israel. Perhaps you're just too excited
about holding political power for the first time in 2,000 years.

> > > > Tell us, Zev, if the Rhinelanders don't follow-up, who are the
> > > > physicians treating the genetic diseases of the Ashkenazi going to
> > > > heed? Don't these men have an ethical obligation to follow-up on
> > > > Elhaik's work? Is this not a serious matter?
>
> > > Genetic diseases are over my head,

> > Evasive. The principles involved are of medical and scientific ethics.
> > Perhaps you'd like them to be over your head but it's not the case.
>
> > > but if you think those physicians are unethical, tell them that.
>
> > Is Elhaik a physician? I don't think so. Don't physicians consult
> > geneticists? Physicians are his colleagues in the broad sense, but I'd
> > be surprised if he treats or consults with patients. Help us here,
> > don't these two disciplines work together as the treatment and
> > counseling of the afflicted  or potentially afflicted evolve? Are the
> > patients to be treated with imaginary history and presumed isolates?
> > Well, no. You can't let that happen. They will not be pleased. Neither
> > will the medical authorities. Elhaik already has laid down the law so
> > far as genetics is concerned. The medical profession must follow.
>
> I missed the part where you explain why it's unethical
> to reject an apparently mistaken hypothesis.

It's unethical to cook the books in science and medicine in order to
promote a political/colonial agenda. And as to the Rhineland
Hypothesis, not one of the geneticists who were criticized by Dr.
Elhaik has replied. That's not the way things work. It tells me that
they have been caught-out by a better man, morally and ethically and,
perhaps, intellectually. They have a clear obligation to reply and to
do so honestly. No talk about Gog and Magog can mitigate that
responsibility.

[drahcir]

Psst. Hey idiot. He's pulling your leg. I would never do such a thing
to a vulnerable senior, but he is ruthless. RUTHLESS, I say!!

[HHW]

> He's pulling your leg.
>
>
>
>
>

Naw, he's displayed these little outbursts of Judaic spirituality
before. He believes it.

[Zev]

On May 24, 3:30 pm, drahcir <s...@sgscc.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 05:22:30 -0700 (PDT), HHW
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 24, 12:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On May 24, 1:42 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >> > > > There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?
>
> >> > > My agenda is about what the Messiah will do to anti-Semites.
> >> > > Would you like to discuss it?
>
> >> > Yes, very much. What will the Messiah do to (1) anti-Semites and (2)
> >> > racist Jews. Please begin in your follow-up post.
>
> >> Learn all you can about Gog and Magog,
> >> so we'll be on the same page.
>
> >What have Gog and Magog to do with Israel withdrawing from the West
> >Bank?
>
> Psst. Hey idiot. He's pulling your leg. I would never do such a thing
> to a vulnerable senior, but he is ruthless. RUTHLESS, I say!!

LOL

[Zev]

On May 24, 3:22 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 12:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On May 24, 1:42 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On May 23, 1:38 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 22, 10:06 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On May 22, 12:20 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On May 21, 11:36 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 21, 3:46 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On May 21, 9:23 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > Restate them. I guarantee you a response. I'm too busy, apparently, to
> > > give you the care you need, but I'll try harder.
>
> > They're OK as they are.
> > Start with the one you promised.
>
> I see, you don't really want a reply. You prefer that I not reply so
> that you can avoid dealing with me.

You promised a response.
Now you clutch at a cheap excuse not to.

> > > > > There is no secret about my agenda.Would you like to discuss it?
>
> > > > My agenda is about what the Messiah will do to anti-Semites.
> > > > Would you like to discuss it?
>
> > > Yes, very much. What will the Messiah do to (1) anti-Semites and (2)
> > > racist Jews. Please begin in your follow-up post.
>
> > Learn all you can about Gog and Magog,
> > so we'll be on the same page.
>
> What have Gog and Magog to do with Israel withdrawing from the West
> Bank?

As I thought, you do have some learning to do.

> > > Celestial authority is the most doubtful of all. He seems to have gone
> > > out of business thousands of years ago.
>
> > He seems to have re-opened 65 years ago.
>
> I see nothing miraculous about Israel.

Herzl said it would happen in 50 years.
It happened in 50 years.

Hunter, there is NO precedent for a people's return to its ancient
homeland,
speaking its ancient language and maintaining its ancient culture.
I'm not here to preach, but you have to be blind not to see it.

> Perhaps you're just too excited
> about holding political power for the first time in 2,000 years.

> It's unethical to cook the books in science and medicine in order to
> promote a political/colonial agenda. And as to the Rhineland
> Hypothesis, not one of the geneticists who were criticized by Dr.
> Elhaik has replied. That's not the way things work. It tells me that
> they have been caught-out by a better man, morally and ethically and,
> perhaps, intellectually. They have a clear obligation to reply and to
> do so honestly. No talk about Gog and Magog can mitigate that
> responsibility.

I don't know enough to comment on "science and medicine",
but it's certainly unethical to embellish a thesis with bs,
to make it more believable.

[drahcir]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:34:02 -0700 (PDT), Zev <zev_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Sorry to ruin your fun, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was
beginnint to develop crow's feet from wincing. Obviously my cruel
streak is not quite as lone as yours.