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Re: Muslim Problem, Hindu Solutions: Sid Harth

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Sid Harth

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Dec 2, 2009, 1:18:33 PM12/2/09

Pakistan Taliban Defiant Over Afghan War Push
10:15am UK, Wednesday December 02, 2009

Alex Crawford, Asia correspondent

The Pakistan Taliban has admitted for the first time its forces are
fighting in Afghanistan and insisted a US troop surge will not defeat
them.

Sky News obtained what is believed to be the first interview with the
group's leadership since the Pakistan's military began its offensive
in the tribal area of South Waziristan.

In the video footage, Tehreik e Taliban's deputy leader Wali ur Rehman
said his fighters were undeterred by America sending an extra 30,000
troops to Afghanistan.

He said: "US defeat in Afghanistan is more visible day by day.
Statements from their officials and army generals show that they are
fed up and questioning how long they stay in Afghanistan.

If I did not think that the security of the US... was at stake in
Afghanistan, I would gladly order every single one of our troops home
tomorrow.

Read our report on the US sending more troops to Afghanistan

"They don't have an idea that the Afghan nation and fighters from all
over the Muslim world fight like brave soldiers.

"US plans have failed in Afghanistan. Soon the US will face defeat in
Afghanistan and will withdraw their forces."

The interview was obtained on the condition that Sky did not reveal
when it was filmed or where.

But the militant leader admitted he himself had travelled several
times to Afghanistan with the mujaheddin (fighters) and fought mainly
in Khost, in the east of the country.

We fight in Afghanistan, and we will fight there until we defeat the
cruel non-Muslim forces.

Tehreik e Taliban's deputy leader Wali ur Rehman

He went on to explain why the Pakistan Taliban was working alongside
rebel forces in Afghanistan.

"We think it is our duty to help our Afghan brothers fight the US,"
Rehman said.

"It is our prime duty to fight in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. Allah
directed us to fight with our nearest non-Muslims.

"Yes, we accept it and we fight in Afghanistan, and we will fight
there until we defeat the cruel non-Muslim forces."

what the afghan troop surge will mean

His admission comes months after the Pakistan military mounted the
offensive to rout South Waziristan of the Taliban.

The interview appeared to be evidence that the Taliban leadership, at
least, continues to be able to issue threats and interviews to the
media, despite the apparent constant army bombardment.

Access to the battle zone is heavily restricted apart from army
escorted trips for certain media representatives.

The interview is likely to be viewed with some concern by the Western
forces battling the militant insurgency inside Afghanistan.

It has long been suspected that the Afghan militant groups were
getting help and support from militants across the border.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Pakistan-Taliban-Defiant-Over-US-Troops-Surge-In-Afghanistan-Pakistani-Wing-Fighting-Across-Border/Article/200912115483827?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15483827_Pakistan_Taliban_Defiant_Over_US_Troops_Surge_In_Afghanistan%3A_Pakistani_Wing_Fighting_Across_Border

...and I am Sid Harth

Sid Harth

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Dec 2, 2009, 1:27:51 PM12/2/09

INTERVIEW-Pakistan's Karachi the Taliban revenue engine - mayor
Wed Dec 2, 2009 6:59am EST
By Faisal Aziz and Robert Birsel

KARACHI, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Pakistan's biggest city and commercial hub
of Karachi is the revenue engine of the Taliban who pose a threat to
the U.S. military operation in Afghanistan from city no-go areas,
Karachi's mayor said on Wednesday.

The city of 18 million people generates 68 percent of the government
revenue and 25 percent of Pakistan's gross domestic product but it is
vulnerable to both militant attacks and political violence, said mayor
Syed Mustafa Kamal.

"As Karachi is the revenue engine for Pakistan, it's the same revenue
engine for the Taliban," Kamal told Reuters in an interview in his
office.

While investors in Pakistan's stock market are getting used to almost
daily violence in northwestern parts of the country, violence in
Karachi would have an immediate impact on financial markets, dealers
say.

Karachi has been largely free of militant attacks over the past two
years which Kamal put down to his party's strong and popular stand
against militancy combined with effective security operations.

Eight militant gangs had been rounded up in the city over recent
months, including one planning to attack an oil storage depot next to
the country's main port in the city, he said.

"Half of Karachi would have burned," said Kamal, referring to the
foiled depot attack. [ID:nISL83142]

A dynamic 37-year-old, Kamal has won support with his efforts to ease
traffic gridlock and improve woeful services.

Kamal said a large proportion of supplies bound for U.S.-led forces in
landlocked Afghanistan arrive at Karachi's port, which he said was
still vulnerable to an attack that could cripple the U.S. war effort.

"If they don't get their water supply through this route the next day
they'll be drinking Afghan water and the next day half the army will
have stomach problems," he said.

"THAT'S ABNORMAL"

The city, which has long suffered a reputation for political violence
and crime, still had no-go areas where the authorities including the
police dared not venture, he said.

"These no-go areas give room for any terrorist, no matter how small or
big, to come and stay," said Kamal, though he said he did not believe
press reports that Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar was
hiding in the city.

But he said militants were financing their war in the northwest of the
country and in Afghanistan through kidnapping and drug trafficking
through Karachi.

"People are being kidnapped here in Karachi and the ransom is taken in
Waziristan," he said, referring to a northwestern ethnic Pashtun
region where the army has been battling militants since October.

Four hundred million rupees ($4.8 million) had recently been sent from
one Karachi bank branch to various parts of the northwest in one
month, he said.

"That's abnormal," he said. "For sure, the biggest chunk of Taliban
war ... resources are going from Karachi." Kamal is a member of the
Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), which represents mohajirs, the
descendents of Urdu-speaking people who migrated from India after the
creation of Pakistan in 1947.

They are the biggest community in Karachi and dominate its
administration.

The MQM, now an uneasy member of the federal coalition government, was
heavily involved in bloody factional battles in Karachi in the 1990s.

Kamal said Karachi remains volatile and vulnerable to factional
violence: "It would just take a single statement to burn the whole
city."

But he said the MQM had a new mentality and maturity.

"We understand very well that Karachi is the backbone of Pakistan's
economy," he said. "If something, God forbid, happens the MQM would be
the biggest loser.

"I don't have a house in Peshawar or Lahore, nor can I go to New Delhi
again ... My graveyard is here." (For more Pakistan stories, click
[ID:nAFPAK]; For a factbox on Karachi, click on [ID:nISL407920] (For
more Reuters coverage of Afghanistan and Pakistan, see: here)

(Editing by Jeremy Laurence)

((robert...@thomsonreuters.com; +92 51 281 0017; Reuters
Messaging: robert.birse...@reuters.net)) ((If you have a
query or comment on this story, send an email to
news.feed...@thomsonreuters.com))

http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSISL5193

Sid Harth

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Dec 2, 2009, 1:44:56 PM12/2/09

Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
19:05 November 25th, 2009

India and Pakistan: the missing piece in the Afghan jigsaw

Posted by: Myra MacDonald

One year ago, I asked whether then President-elect Barack Obama’s
plans for Afghanistan still made sense after the Mumbai attacks
torpedoed hopes of a regional settlement involving Pakistan and India.
The argument, much touted during Obama’s election campaign, was that a
peace deal with India would convince Pakistan to turn decisively on
Islamist militants, thereby bolstering the United States flagging
campaign in Afghanistan.

As I wrote at the time, it had always been an ambitious plan to
convince India and Pakistan to put behind them 60 years of bitter
struggle over Kashmir as part of a regional solution to many complex
problems in Afghanistan. Had the Mumbai attacks pushed it out of
reach? And if so, what was the fall-back plan?

One year on, there is as yet still no sign of a fall-back plan for
Afghanistan and the tense relationship between India and Pakistan
remains the elusive piece of the jigsaw.

After some attempts at peace-making which culminated in a meeting
between the leaders of India and Pakistan in Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt
in July, and despite Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s own determination
to try to repair relations, the two countries have descended into
mutual recrimination.

India accuses Pakistan of failing to take enough action against the
Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group it blames for Mumbai and which analysts
believe is still in a position to launch fresh attacks, and refuses to
reopen formal peace talks broken off after the three-day assault.
Pakistan has put seven men on trial over the attacks but has refused
to arrest the group’s founder Hafiz Saeed nor, analysts say, to
dismantle the infrastructure of an organisation whose original role
was to fight India in Kashmir. It says it wants to resume talks with
India.

As a result of the deadlock, both countries remain bitter rivals for
influence in Afghanistan; while Pakistan, fighting its own battle
against Islamist militants who have turned against the state, is seen
as reluctant to move more troops from its eastern border with India to
press home a military campaign against the Pakistani Taliban in its
tribal areas. India in turn remains vulnerable to another Mumbai-style
attack which could trigger Indian retaliation against Pakistan,
running a risk of escalation between the two nuclear-armed countries.

“Now India and Pakistan are both playing for broke. Pakistan says it
will support a U.S. regional strategy that does not include India,
while India is talking about a regional alliance with Iran and Russia
that excludes Pakistan. Both positions — throwbacks to the 1990s, when
neighboring states fuelled opposing sides in Afghanistan’s civil war —
are non-starters as far as helping the U.S.-NATO alliance bring peace
to Afghanistan,” writes Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid in the
Washington Post.

“To avoid a regional debacle and the Taliban gaining even more ground,
Obama needs to fulfil the commitment he made to Afghanistan in March:
to send more troops — so that U.S.-NATO forces and the Afghan
government can regain the military initiative — as well as civilian
experts, and more funds for development. He must bring both India and
Pakistan on board and help reduce their differences; a regional
strategy is necessary for any U.S. strategy in Afghanistan to have a
chance. The United States needs to persuade India to be more flexible
toward Pakistan while convincing Pakistanis to match such flexibility
in a step-by-step process that reduces terrorist groups operating from
its soil so that the two archenemies can rebuild a modicum of trust. ”

Obama and the U.S. administration are being very careful to avoid
being seen as trying to mediate between India and Pakistan — India is
sensitive about outside interference, particularly over Kashmir, which
it sees as a bilateral dispute.

But in reality, the United States has been involved in easing tensions
in every recent crisis between the two countries – from the 1999
Kargil war when India and Pakistan fought a brief but intense conflict
along the Line of Control dividing the disputed former kingdom of
Jammu and Kashmir, to a military standoff in 2001/2002 when close to a
million men were mobilised along the border after an attack on the
Indian parliament. Following the attack on Mumbai, it was to the
United States that India turned to to put pressure on Pakistan to
crack down on the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Will Obama be able to find a way forward to ease tensions between
India and Pakistan, in turn creating a firmer regional foundation to
stabilise Afghanistan? Or more precisely, is there a method to his
initiatives over the last few months involving not just India and
Pakistan, but also China, that in the fullness of time will be seen to
be part of an overall strategy to drive a regional bargain that will
underpin his plans for Afghanistan?

As discussed in this analysis, the United States faced a difficult
balancing act in its relations with India, Pakistan and China. The
financial crisis had made it more economically dependent on China,
while its need for support in Afghanistan made it more militarily
dependent on Pakistan.

India, which was defeated in a border war with China in 1962, has
always been suspicious of Beijing’s role as one of Pakistan’s closest
allies. And since Obama’s election it also became wary of what it
feared was a U.S. tilt towards China which might undermine burgeoning
U.S.-India ties which flourished under his predecessor George W. Bush.

The United States has tried to navigate its way through these
competing rivalries by promising aid and support to Pakistan, while
also inviting Indian prime minister Singh to make the first state
visit of his presidency. During a visit by Obama to China, the two
countries promised to work together to promote peace in South Asia.
Analysts variously interpreted the pledge as unwarranted interference
between India and Pakistan, a detail in a lengthy statement about U.S.-
Chinese relations, and a sign that China might encourage Pakistan to
crack down on Islamist militants in ways that would also reassure
India. (As yet, the jury is still out on which interpretation is
correct.)

When Obama unveils his latest plans for Afghanistan next week, we
might get some clues as to whether he has used the long delay in
announcing his strategy to build regional support for a grand bargain
on Afghanistan. Failing that, we might get an answer to the question
I asked a year ago. What is the fall-back plan?

(Photos: The Taj hotel during the Mumbai attacks, the Dal lake in
Kashmir; artillery at Drass on the Line of Control; the Obamas ahead
of the state dinner for Prime Minister Singh)

December 1st, 2009
11:58 pm GMT To-day, somehow the people first want to know is your
religion or caste or whatever, subsequent responses depend entirely on
that.
-Posted by Dara

This is why I get defensive when posters come here and they first
question they ask when responding to someone is “where are you from?”
“what race are you?” “what religion are you?” etc.

From my perspective, the only reason to ask these questions is if you
are going to judge the response that person makes on what the answers
to those questions are.

One individual a few weeks back had the gall to suggest that he wanted
to know this information because he “wanted to know where people come
from”. Right.

- Posted by Keith

December 1st, 2009
10:38 pm GMT Dara,

I guess we’ll have to disagree on the specific issue of India’s
visibility in Afghanistan. Please note, though, that in general, I
think India is doing lots of good work there and they should keep it
up.

On some what of a tangent, I have always found it unfortunate that
India and West never became close earlier. You have to agree that
Nehru’s anti-colonial leftist mindset had at least something to do
with this. History would have turned out a lot differently if Nehru
had preferred the West over the sham of the non-aligned movement
(which proved to be utterly useless). I really do think that India and
the West (not just the US) could be natural allies. I realize this
sounds to Indians like they should be an American stooge. But that’s
not true. Canada is a good example of a country that has maintained
its independence on important foreign policy issues (Iraq and Vietnam
for example) while acting with its allies where common interests are
concerned (Europe, Afghanistan). I could see India operating in a
similar framework as an ally someday.

- Posted by Keith

December 1st, 2009
10:29 pm GMT M. Anjum,

I find your arguments against democracy to be spurious. You seem to
suggest that there should be no democracy unless its perfect or there
should be military rule. But is military rule perfect? I am a serving
military officer, and I would never think that I could do the job of a
civil bureaucrat/technocrat. And while the politicians may be corrupt
in Pakistan, your civil service has a reputation for being cleaner
(albeit not perfect), and infinitely more competent.

Yet, every time the Army comes in, it fires the people who know what
they are doing and puts in military officers to do those jobs. How
does that help the country?

If I want to develop the economy, I want economists. I don’t want
artillery officers developing complex strategic economic plans.

So if you think politicians are flawed and military government is
better, than what’s with this situation? If the military takes over,
why does it need to also ingrain itself into the civil service?

You still have not answered my assertion. Democracy is a process that
is perfected through time and practice. Our Western democracies are
still not perfect. We make mistakes (many of which you’d happily point
out). However, each mistake we make, our voters learn from and adjust.
For every Bush the Americans elect, there’s an Obama. So why should
Pakistanis be denied this learning curve and the opportunity to
continuously improve their democracy? Why does democracy have to be
100%, 100% of the time for it to take root in Pakistan? Why such a
high bar for democracy, yet not much expectations for military rule?

What’s interesting to me too, is that I only seem to hear middle class
Pakistanis (the kind who speak english and have visas to the UK,
Europe or the US), say that Pakistan is not ready for democracy.
Somehow, I doubt the poor downtrodden Pakistani on the street would
make that same argument.

- Posted by Keith

December 1st, 2009
9:52 pm GMT @Just because I am a Pakistani, it does not mean
everything I say has to be idiotic. This is the point I am making to
the Indian contributors here. Just because you are an Indian and we
are Pakistanis, it does not give you a higher pedestal on every view.
You can be wrong too.”
–Anjum

Anjum: I totally agree with you. Am I the only one who feels that you
are talking with cool head now and are able to have some meaningful
conversation? Take it as a complement but do not take that I agree
with you on your idea of democracy.

@I just do not want it to be a sham. I want our country to get up to a
certain level of development before taking up democracy.
-Anjum
–You mentioned it earlier also giving China’s example that they have
achieved certain level of development and are candidate for democracy.
I totally DISagree. China’s main aim is development by communist party
(only by communist party) and democracy means are least 2 parties and
China takes special precaution in uprooting any mass movement that
remotely resembles a political movement. Chinese history is replete
with such examples and I see some Chinese organizations banned with a
fear that they have the potential to have political aspirations.

Also, democracy will help development while ensuring individual rights
and expression.

If military rule carries Pakistan on path of development, what is your
motivation for adopting democracy? Thus far development and military
rule have not gone hand-in-hand in Pakistan. If Pakistan had democracy
and military did not interfere, Pakistan would have remained one;
division was due to military intervention. Pakistan would not initiate
wars if military rule was absent and democracy was in place. The
chances of peace will be higher.

Lastly, in India it is the democratic system that works not the
individual contributions of the leaders. As you noted there are
criminal leaders and corrupt leaders in India. But there are lots of
positives of the system that introduces checks and balances that puts
the country on cruise. Indian leaders have made mistakes but India can
bear the consequences of those than living under a military rule. It
just does not suit Indian psyche. It is 62 yrs since 1947, Pakistanis
and Indians are very different in their expectation of political
system.

If you ever think of democracy in Pakistan, do not wait for
development to happen. Give your leaders 10 election cycles with non-
interference of military and you will be see faster development. if
Pakistan adopts civilian govt with PA/ISI under its control,
Pakistan’s case will be like certain medical treatments that worsen
the symptoms of the disease before curing it. But then if you can live
with disease why not live with discomfort of the treatment.

- Posted by rajeev

December 1st, 2009
9:39 pm GMT Help India? America has already sent every IT job in
America to India. There are hundreds of thousands of IT engineers out
of work in the states and you say Help India. Not a dime of my
taxpayer money, (while I still have a job and pay taxes).

- Posted by Tom

December 1st, 2009
9:27 pm GMT Meant to say
“His early death has nothing to do with absence of democracy in
pakistan”.

- Posted by Raj

December 1st, 2009
8:50 pm GMT Our country was lying on the battle trenches of cold war.
We were sucked into it.. If you look at countries like India,
Singapore etc, though they have a democracy, the countries have been
ruled mostly in the form of a quasi-dictatorship.
- Posted by Mohammed Anjum
====

Mr.Anjum:
Your postings are hilarious and have very good entertainment value.
Very nice depiction of victimhood. The only problem is you are rather
loose on facts. Starting with Jinnah you have always been desperate to
be the ally of US/West.

To be precise- you have been beseeching and pleading with them to be
their allies in hopes of war mongering, militarism against India.

The article here nicely summarizes the US role in S.Asia:

http://www.chowk.com/articles/9132

Where did you learn India has been quasi dictatorship? Jinnah was an
undemocratic, authoritarian man. Once he dismissed a minister without
talking to the prime minister. His early death has nothing to do with
absence of democracy in India.

The only person you could accuse of semi-dictatorship in India was
Indira Gandhi. Nehru was a true democrat and sought the counsel of his
colleagues always. We have several prime ministers since then
including Dr.Singh who are truly democratic leaders. Stop spinning
yarns of lies and tales here.

- Posted by Raj

December 1st, 2009
8:11 pm GMT The Indian Muslim leader (Maulana Abul Kalam Azad) who
foresaw the unraveling of of Pakistan, even before partition in 1946!

http://twocircles.net/2009dec01/april_19
46_interview_maulana_abul_kalam_azad_man _who_knew_future.html

“I feel that right from its inception, Pakistan will face some very
serious problems:

1. The incompetent political leadership will pave the way for military
dictatorship as it has happened in many Muslim countries.

2. The heavy burden of foreign debt.

3. Absence of friendly relationship with neighbours and the
possibility of armed conflict.

4. Internal unrest and regional conflicts.

5. The loot of national wealth by the neo-rich and industrialists of
Pakistan.

6. The apprehension of class war as a result of exploitation by the
neo-rich.

7. The dissatisfaction and alienation of the youth from religion and
the collapse of the theory of Pakistan.

8. The conspiracies of the international powers to control Pakistan.

In this situation, the stability of Pakistan will be under strain and
the Muslim countries will be in no position to provide any worthwhile
help. The assistance from other sources will not come without strings
and it will force both ideological and territorial compromises.”

- Posted by Ramin

December 1st, 2009
7:19 pm GMT Mr. Ramin, you write: “So why don’t you guys merge with
China?

That will save us a whole lotta migraine and you guys can save a lotta
jet fuel!!!”

This is a useless statement to prolong the argument. In that case may
be India should merge with UK. After all both have Parliamentary
system and India was a British colony. Just because I am a Pakistani,
it does not mean everything I say has to be idiotic. This is the point
I am making to the Indian contributors here. Just because you are an
Indian and we are Pakistanis, it does not give you a higher pedestal
on every view. You can be wrong too.

Mr. Keith, you write: “So do you think the Quaid-e-Azam was wrong for
setting Pakistan up on the path of democracy?”

We do not know what Jinnah would have done. He died within a year of
our independence. There was a power vacuum right away. The creation of
Pakistan happened too fast and the demands made by Jinnah were not met
when partition was made. So he got a moth eaten Pakistan and the first
priority was to accept this strange geography. Then was the problem of
money and infrastructure. Depending upon the size of a country,
different approaches have to be made. Pakistan is a relatively smaller
country compared to India. We just did not have our Lee Kuan Yew. Once
again, let me state that I am not against democracy. I just do not
want it to be a sham. I want our country to get up to a certain level
of development before taking up democracy. Otherwise it is like
letting children in charge of an abandoned household. They will need
to grow while managing the household. Things can go wrong in that
condition. New countries need patrons and guides to take them to the
level where their people can decide for themselves wisely. And they
will feel empowered as a result. That is why my view is that Pakistan
is not ready for the democratic experiment yet. The past 60 years have
been wasted due to geo-political turmoil in the region. Hopefully,
once this war on terrorism is done, we will look at how our future
should be. I hope we will get a devoted leader under whom we all can
rally and work towards taking the country to a higher stage. I do not
see any such leader at present. That is why I am looking up to the
next best option. It is not because I believe only in the military. We
have no other leadership that we need right now.

Mr. Pratt, you write: “Is there a Democracy in Pakistan ??? Look how
many years have been ruled by authoritarian Military Dictators here.
What a shame!!! Its virtually on the verge of total colapse now.”

Small countries have that vulnerability of getting crushed. Our growth
got offset by various factors - Our national leader died right after
our independence. Our country was lying on the battle trenches of cold
war. We were sucked into it. Now we are fighting terrorism. One after
another, we have been in a crisis. So our military has been the choice
for us to get us out of these difficult situations. There is nothing
shameful about being ruled by an elected leader or a dictator so long
as there is progress. If you look at countries like India, Singapore
etc, though they have a democracy, the countries have been ruled
mostly in the form of a quasi-dictatorship. Developing countries do
not have the privilege of experimenting. Their growth takes precedence
over everything else. Growth brings prosperity and then everyone can
choose what they want. Until that happens, it is good to be under the
wings of some kind of leadership that is steady and unchanging. In
India, Nehru dynasty provided that steadiness. Though elections came
and went, this family mostly held on to the power and their personal
outlooks shaped the nation’s path. India is doing well not entirely
because of these politicians. They opened up their economy and have
benefitted from it for the past 20 years. Prior to that, their
democracy was still there and never got this much of publicity they
are getting now. Everyone loves to be associated with those who make
money. So in the case of Pakistan, we need to settle things and start
making money. And then no one will complain about what kind of a
system we have. At that time we can decide what we want.

- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

December 1st, 2009
4:10 pm GMT Keith,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I need to keep it short here - I
agree that the shadows of the cold war did play a part in shaping
attitudes. In one word it was - caution. However, we have all moved. I
think most in India, who keep abreast of events in Afghanistan are
aware of the problems and the difficult balance that the US and NATO
have to maintain while dealing with the two sub-contental neighbours.
While one understands them one also sees a tilt at times.

For example, you mention here that India and the West agree they are
on the same side. Well from my personal view point I have this to say.
You may recollect, and this is on Congressional records too in the US
- India was amongst the first to offer support to the US within hours
of the attack on the twin towers. Who was the amongst the last?
Pakistan, as Musharraf admitted on American TV, had to be threatened
of being bombed back to the stone age, before it agreed to offer
support. Even so, and it is only now becoming apparent to the West,
that support was a cat and mouse game. I am not going to elaborate on
that aspect except to say that it was an explicit condition that India
be kept out.

The arm twisting worked because strategically Pakistan was better
placed to facilitate US aims in Afghanistan than India - I can see the
logic there. However, just because Pakistan feels threatened by Indian
presence, even if it involves mere humanitarian work,to hear
suggestions of India becoming less visible is a bit difficult to
digest. If you attribute troop casualties there to Indian presence in
Afghanistan, I don’t follow the reasoning other than the implication
that if the Indians weren’t there, the Pakistanis would co-operate and
not resort to shadow boxing in Afghanistan.

Keith, to my knowledge there are more than 40 countries operating in
Afghanistan. To single out only India and question its presence or
visibility or interests there as being detrimental to the Western
cause, I’m sorry to say somehow just doesn’t wash with me. It is plain
and simple playing to the Pakistani gallery. The West has compulsions,
India may empathise there but is surely not going to let it be a
determining factor of its foreign policy. No country would.

Well like I said at the outset, I need to keep it short!

- Posted by Dara

December 1st, 2009
2:24 pm GMT Ganesh, Musaafir, Keith,
I find your discussions here on democracy and its functioning very
infortmative. I would like to join it but for now am simply rushed for
time. So please spare me some space in to-morrow’s edition.

- Posted by Dara

December 1st, 2009
2:19 pm GMT Vijay,

I have absolutely no doubts over your sincerity in what you say and
that it is genuinely meant. Unfortunately I see Indian presence in
Afghanistan differently. The issue for me is simple, Afghanistan is a
country that direly needs all the help it can get, if we can provide
some it is worth going there. India and Afghanistan, pre-Taliban
regime, had excellent relations and many ties, mainly economic which
benefited both. I also don’t think our presense there has anything
much to do with our energy security. But I genuinely feel India is
doing more good than harm there and helping to improve quality of life
there. The work it is involved in is humanitarian not military related
in any form.

The present hue and cry being made is what I am against, because to my
mind it is totally instigated by those who see India as a threat or a
permanent rival, no matter what it does, whether in Afghanistan or
Timbuktu.

As to your views on democracy - Indian style - I am generally of the
same opinion as you. We have messed it up. And I really mean ‘we’.
Agreed there is an unholy nexus between politicos-babus-criminals etc
etc. but how did they get to be so strong? WE let them do this to us,
over many years, by simply ignoring things and letting government get
away with doing nothing or whatever it wanted. A long time ago,
Khushwant Singh, when he was editor of the Illustrated Weekly of
India, wrote that the wrong kind of people win elections because the
right ones don’t vote. Have things changed even now? Look at Mumbai -
a perfect example of just talking and yelling. We have been so laid
back that the role of the average Indian or aam aadmi if you will, has
been reduced to voting, perhaps, and then the politician or the rest
of the democratic machinery has no more use for us. We are slowly
realising this and now seem to want everything to get back on the
rails yesterday! Its not going to happen, not for many years to come
and then too only if all of us get seriously involved.

In a way the same applies to the way religion now dominates
everything. Arun Shourie wrote something that has stuck in my mind for
years. He mentioned that in the 50s people dealt with others as human
beings frist and listened to what they had to say and held discussions
depending on what that person said. To-day, somehow the people first
want to know is your religion or caste or whatever, subsequent
responses depend entirely on that. I think it is a very pertinent
observation. Again, I think we let ourselves be manipulated to get
where we are. Unfortunately, we slept for five decades and now
probably have to work for 10 more to get things back on the rails.

- Posted by Dara

December 1st, 2009
11:19 am GMT The question is who represents the Military.Is it a fair
representation through every province or it will be advantageous for
one specific group of people who speaks a specific language.Only those
who speak a specific language get the creamy posts since the working
relationship is excellent,a perceived notion is there that he will
work for a common cause.There will then be disenchantment with others
or one can feed their frustration.One can’t say when you live in a
multicultural society with different language that head of state
should be only from this province.WHat happens when one states sends
military personnel another state sends revenues another natural
resources who should have a better say.Is there not bound to be
exploitation which explains why India before the british was having
100s of kingdoms, You had nizams,mughal,shahi kingdoms or among hindus
rajput,maratha,vijaynagar,travencore etc, the dearth for zealots that
he is superior to the other has no ending.When brothers from same
business family can’t get along despite being so rich i am not very
sure whether governance from a particular province will stand durable
test of time.

A representative government is inclusive across language & socio
cultural representation.

All infatuations to government besides democracy makes it slightly
troublesome since progressive development even if it moves at a slower
clip is unsustainable longer term in other forms of government.

I would think 20% of elected representatives who are MPs may be
corrupt,when you go to state it increases 40%+,when you move to
muncipality you have to search who is good since they have just
started their career.IT, technology,RTI can curb this gradually.

The most important measure i do is asking students in schools how many
cheat in their exams,inadverently most do & boast about it.That is
where reforms need to start about.Cheating & Illiteracy among parents
is directly linked in a major way,Where their parents come from a
middle class background the ignominy is very palpable when kids find
it disgusting about their parents or vice versa.Kalam pushed that
thought in interactions with students.The power of reforming schools &
colleges through NGOs should be a good start where deeper values of
hardwork,honesty has to be imbibed.If one plots out statistically you
will see incidence of corruption is more from people who come out from
poorer school system than from middle class kind of backgrounds.Most
leaders representing our society are basically school or college drop
outs, when there is pilferages in mid day school meal the hope of a
finer society is least expectable.

- Posted by Vijay

December 1st, 2009
10:27 am GMT M Anjum,

I think we are losing sight on what our primary focus here is. Yes,
India’s democracy is yet to mature and we as citizens need to go a
long way before we can call it a mature democracy, but isn’t it always
a continuing process? However I find it hard to understand why any
country would want its military to have the final say,I think fear has
gripped Pakistan to such an extent that people have lost faith in
their democratic institutions.

I hope Democracy will flourish in Pakistan primarily because the
voices of people in Pakistan will have greater say in which direction
their country should head in the 21st century.I understand you are
cynical about the same, but democracy needs time and effort by all its
citizens for a better nation.One more hope is that the people in
Pakistan can stand up against those who always look outside to cover
up their shortcomings.Let us also strive at getting our houses in
order in the first place. A short cut will not work, it is a gradual
process of maturing which starts with a vision, a vision which truly
has to be the aspirations of the people of Pakistan for a better
country. I think both India and Pakistan have a million reasons to
unite in their goals of eradicating poverty, educating its citizens,
ensuring human values are held high and also to fight extremism.

I believe India actually woke up after 26/11 in many ways. Similarly
Pakistan has a need to stand up against extremism. The moderate voices
should have a greater say in both our countries.Being fixated on
Kashmir does no good either for Pakistan or India. Lets first fight
terrorism in every way and also see the million reasons why we should
channel our energy for common goals of development.

- Posted by Bijoy Jose

December 1st, 2009
9:38 am GMT Keith:

Corection to my eralier post:

“Currently, US perhaps will be #1 in the countries that India likes.”

- Posted by rajeev

December 1st, 2009
9:35 am GMT Keith:

@What’s frustrating for Westerners is the fact that while Indians
complain about not getting enough recognition from the West or claim
that the West betrayed them in the past (ironically Pakistanis make
the same claim too), there is very little recognition of the efforts
made by the West to engage India in the post-Cold War era.
-Keith

Keith: perhaps you have not seen the surveys and have not sensed how
much support US enjoys in Indian public.
Have a look:
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php ?PageID=800

There is more anti-Americanism in Europe than in India (though this
survey is at Bush’s time). This is due to growing India-US
relationship in several sectors. Currently, US perhpas will be #1 on
Indians like any country. This is not a small thing and is happening
despite any Indian complaint of US–like on terrorism as an example.
Indian public and govt go together in this relationship. Look at US-
China and

US-Pak relationships—people in both China and Pak do not like US.
Indians, however, do not like to agree to each US policy since that is
the practical need of India considering several geo-political factors.

- Posted by rajeev

December 1st, 2009
7:34 am GMT Who cares what system is good so long as economy is good?
Look at China. They do not have democracy, but are doing better than
Americans now. That is all matters for this land.
- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

So why don’t you guys merge with China?

That will save us a whole lotta migraine and you guys can save a lotta
jet fuel!!!

- Posted by Ramin

December 1st, 2009
6:43 am GMT Mr. Ganesh you write: “There’s a contradiction right
there. On the one hand, you say India’s democracy is a sham because
the privileged continue to rule unchallenged. Then in almost the same
breath, you turn around and point to the example of a lower caste
leader who has come to power. Doesn’t this example contradict your own
thesis?”

I am not contradicting anything here. On one side are the rich class
who wield political power because of their money and clout. On the
other side are union leaders, communists and caste politicians who act
like war lords literally. The politician I mentioned about belongs to
the latter category. The bottom line is that neither group really
cares for anyone other than themselves and their aggrandizement. In a
healthy democracy, accountability is a necessity. I read that many
members of Parliament or state legislative assemblies are criminals or
have criminal records or criminal cases in process. I wonder how
different these people are from Afghanistan’s war lords. These people
can take to the guns and militia if they could. I am just making a
point. I will not say that your democracy is inferior to our system.
Ours is a sham too. I’d say it is much worse.

The discussion was about what people from different regions will
choose to better their lives. In the case of Pakistan, the military
has helped the nation survive. In the case of India, dynastic politics
which resembles a monarchy has helped India survive. Bangladesh was
under military rule for a long time after Mujib’s assassination. If
the economy goes down, none of the systems will work. Sri Lanka was
almost on the brink.

Our feudal lords and your politicians can sell their mothers if it
suits them. In Pakistan, our military has been an honorable
institution. We have nothing else to rely on at this time. So we will
support our military and its benevolence.

- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

December 1st, 2009
6:35 am GMT M. Anjum,

So do you think the Quaid-e-Azam was wrong for setting Pakistan up on
the path of democracy?

- Posted by Keith

December 1st, 2009
6:20 am GMT Is there a Democracy in Pakistan ???
Look how many years have been ruled by authoritarian Military
Dictators here. What a shame!!! Its virtually on the verge of total
colapse now.

- Posted by Pratt

December 1st, 2009
5:20 am GMT ISI, the democracy killer in Pakistan!

“Pakistani Journalist Critical of the Military Is Threatened by ISI”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/world/ asia/01pstan.html

- Posted by Soman

December 1st, 2009
3:46 am GMT Mohammad Anjum said:
> In India you have the ex-kings who still have large following in the regions where their ancestors ruled. And these people keep getting elected no matter what they do. [...] I read about one low caste leader in the Northern Indian state getting filthy rich and she has used state’s money to build statues for her everywhere.

There’s a contradiction right there. On the one hand, you say India’s
democracy is a sham because the privileged continue to rule
unchallenged. Then in almost the same breath, you turn around and
point to the example of a lower caste leader who has come to power.
Doesn’t this example contradict your own thesis?

I liked your previous post where you diagnosed the reason why
Pakistan’s democracy has not evolved - feudalism. I also agree with
you that the prolonged use of the army by India in its troubled areas
is not healthy. But your statement that India pretends to be something
it is not, while Pakistan is more honest, is making a virtue of
necessity. It’s quite possible that India is not yet a mature
democracy, but it must be acknowledged that India is much further
ahead than Pakistan. The strength, resilience and responsiveness of
Indian democracy have only improved over the years.

I also don’t agree with your earlier statement that democracy does not
suit South Asia. I think only Pakistan and Nepal have done badly here.
India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have not done as badly. Indeed, no
other system of government would work for our countries.

I am pretty confident that Pakistan will one day become a mature
democracy. There’s no reason for sour grapes just because it is taking
time to mature.

Regards,
Ganesh

- Posted by Ganesh Prasad

December 1st, 2009
3:06 am GMT Myra,

Sorry, the interview has been published in well known magazines. I’d
rather take that as a word than opinions published on blogs such as
Pakteahouse.

- Posted by Nikhil

December 1st, 2009
2:44 am GMT Nikhil,

Slightly off topic, but since you mention it, that Maulana Azad
interview has been challenged over at Pak Tea House:

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/12 /01/the-man-who-forged-an-
interview-sho rish-kashmiris-maulana-azad-hoax/

- Posted by Myra MacDonald

December 1st, 2009
2:13 am GMT Keith/Mohammed Anjum,

Democracies are works in progress and Indian democracy is no
exception. India, unlike Pakistan, knew well what it stood for from
the beginning. Many here perhaps may not know that Maulana Azad, the
Indian Congress President, in April 1946 gave an interview to Lahore
based Urdu magazine named ‘Chattan’ - now defunct publisher - and had
predicted the possible outcomes of the new state of Pakistan and its
impacts on South Asia. Looking back, it is almost freaky to know how
accurate his list of predictions related to Pakistan were; such as the
loss of East Pakistan, military rule, ethnic conflicts, foreign
interventions and tense relations with its neighbors, particularly
India.

- Posted by Nikhil

December 1st, 2009
2:01 am GMT “India’s monarchy is flourishing. It is really not a
democracy in the real sense. They have no term limits for their
politicians and some of them have grown filthy rich at the expense of
others”- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

I didn’t know that people get to choose their leaders in a monarchy.
It seems, you need a crash course on democracy. India follows the
parliamentary democratic system, which is followed by most
democracies, including UK & Australia. Under that system, there’s no
term limit for Prime Ministers or MP’s. This system is different from
the Presidential form of democracy followed by the US, which has a 2
term Presidential limit but no term limits for senators, House Reps,
governors or mayors. Pakistan is the only country in the world which
seems to be following a bizarre fusion of both Presidential &
Parliamentary democracies. No offense, but I think you should stick
your expertise on Pakistani democracy instead of enlightening us about
Indian democracy & Politics.

- Posted by Mortal

December 1st, 2009
1:16 am GMT Keith,

Pakistan could have evolved into a decent democracy. Because of its
geo-political position, it was manipulated by the cold-war equations.
I have read somewhere that the CIA staged a coup that brought Ayub
Khan to power in 1958. I do not have the reference here with me.
Pakistan has never been the same again. Once military is given too
much power and pampered with money, weapons etc., they are going to
find an enemy and start fighting them. Pakistan has intelligent
people. They are no different from the people in India culturally and
otherwise. The mindset, outlook etc are very similar. It is
unfortunate that their proximity to the cold war battle field never
allowed them to experiment with democracy. India was lucky in the
sense it had Nehru who stayed in power for a long time and helped set
up the infrastructure for democrcy, nation building etc. Pakistan did
not have such a leader. Even Jinnah would not have gone along that
path. It was easy to stage protests and riots. Administration and
governance need true leaders. We saw how Bush ran the American
Presidency. All it takes is one bad leader to mess everything up.
Pakistan has been unfortunate in this regard. They got too busy with
external goals and did not prioritize internal development. Now they
seem to have no alternative but their military. If the military is
weakened, it will lead to its eventual collapse. The military is the
one that is holding the country together currently. It is
unfortunate.

I’d suggest going easy on Pakistanis right now. They are under
tremendous emotional stress and they may not express themselves calmly
at this time.

- Posted by KP Singh

Posted by: Myra MacDonald

One year on, there is as yet still no sign of a fall-back plan for
Afghanistan and the tense relationship between India and Pakistan
remains the elusive piece of the jigsaw.

(Photos: The Taj hotel during the Mumbai attacks, the Dal lake in
Kashmir; artillery at Drass on the Line of Control; the Obamas ahead
of the state dinner for Prime Minister Singh)

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December 1st, 2009
1:04 am GMT Keith,

Since you came up with more questions, let me try to answer them from
my perspective.

I never said democracy is bad. It is a good institution. But states
have to become ready for democracy to flourish. This means leaders
should be held accountable and bad leaders should be rejected
repeatedly and good alternatives must come forward to take over and
lead. In third world countries like ours, this cycle is not efficient.
We get mostly bad leaders who are in general either rich people to
start with, or became famous by some means (acting in movies,
sportsman etc). These are the people with easy tickets to power. In
India you have the ex-kings who still have large following in the
regions where their ancestors ruled. And these people keep getting
elected no matter what they do. If you throw out a bad one, the
replacement is as bad or even worse. Very few are honest and sincere
people. Most get filthy rich and start treating their states and
constituencies like many African despots do. I read about one low
caste leader in the Northern Indian state getting filthy rich and she
has used state’s money to build statues for her everywhere.

Though you say that these kind of circus acts are part and parcel of a
growing democracy, I’d prefer the society to mature to a higher level
by education, economy etc and then move into a democractic system.
That is what I prefer for Pakistan. I prefer the Chinese model of
getting to a better stage and then contemplate on what is good for us.
Do not assume that dictatorships will always lead to nepotism and
corruption. Nepotism and favoitism can be rampant in democracies too.
Look at India as an example.

We have had elections in the past and we got no politician who was
devoted for nation building. They swindled the coffers right away and
built mansions for themselves in UK and elsewhere. We had no other
alternatives. And I am not alone in my expectations. Most Pakistanis
want to be led by those who are passionately patriotic and will give
up their lives for the nation. Who else can do it for us? Every
soldier in the military will.

Our military personnel also have high expectations of any leader who
comes forward to lead the nation. After all they are protecting the
country with their lives and it is not worth that life if some
politician sits in comfort and swindles the country. That is the
perspective of our citizens and our military.

We have not had the luck of such a leader emerging yet. But in the
meantime, we want to progress economically and expand our national
infrastructure towards growth in all aspects. Once we get there, I am
sure there will be enough wisdom to choose what suits us.

Musharraf was coerced out by the US. The elections held to bring Mr.
10% to power was an eye wash staged by the US. We don’t know what the
US was trying to accomplish by it. Musharraf did everything in
Pakistan’s interest. He was a complete soldier. With war on terrorism
at our door step, things cannot be expected to go better, even under
military rule. Look at what the democratic government has achieved.
Pakistan has become worse within the last one year ever since Mr.
Zaradi and Gilani took over. Only when these American puppets are
replaced by worthy leaders can we even consider democracy for us.

I have no regrets about military rule in our country. It happened
because our nation was pushed to the brink every time and we had to
save our nation first. Our military did everything in our interest. I
can bet that without our military, Pakistan would have been destroyed
long ago by the wolves in the sheep skin that are surrounding us. For
now, we need a focused effort to get to a level of stability and
prosperity. We do not see any other form of government that will get
us to the next level. Hence my faith in our military.

- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

December 1st, 2009
12:29 am GMT Hello Keith,

I know I’d be one of those million Indians who believe there’s a lot
we need to do for our country and our top priority is to get our
democracy to truly work in all aspects first within our country.
Eradicating poverty, educating our citizens, strengthening our
democratic institutions are some of the many things that we need to
work on.However regarding this topic I for one have never understood
why off late, there has been several reports in certain media of the
need for India to scale down the visibility of some of the development
work its doing in Afghanistan.I feel that is precisely playing into
the hands of what the Taliban would want, If anything we need to unite
to strengthen the Afghan government, its democratic institutions and
help train the Afghan police to eventually be capable of fighting the
Taliban.

Isn’t it India’s priority to ensure that it has a safe neighborhood in
India’s own security interests?Doesn’t a country as vulnerable as
Afghanistan need support in strengthening its institutions to fight
extremism,especially considering the threat of extremism spreading
from its border.I think it’d be more productive for all of us
US,India,EU interested in seeing how we can ensure a more secure
Afghanistan.

I think most of us in India are supportive of US/NATO’s role in
Afghanistan.My heart goes out to the many brave soldiers who continue
to fight for a better world.Without the allied forces in the region it
would only become a place for harboring terrorists.The presence of the
allied forces is surely one of the reasons why India is even able to
carry some of the development work there. I would go a step ahead to
say that our combined goal is to improve development and create a
vision for many of the young Afghans for a better tomorrow.It surely
will gain more goodwill even with the people of Afghanistan and help
them understand why we are there in the first place.As much as I would
want India to join these forces militarily in solving the problem I
feel such measures will only be counter productive considering the
strain in INDO-PAK relations.I believe it can escalate tensions to
extreme levels between India and Pakistan if India were to deploy
troops in Afghanistan.They are already paranoid about our 5 consulates
there, I can only imagine the fear deploying troops can cause.I should
again agree that its the trust deficit between the two countries that
is a barrier between the people of both India & Pakistan.

I hope we can eventually see how education,human rights,eradicating
poverty,strengthening democracy, experiencing true potential should be
what every individual in these countries should be striving for.I hope
voices of RSS and extremist BJP in India can be marginalized similarly
I am extremely concerned about the growth of madrassas and religious
fundamentalism in Pakistan which many of us view as a grave threat to
world peace.

Let us not get swayed by voices which have a hidden agenda. Let us
unite for a cause that needs all of us to stand together which is a
need for a secure future and a slightly better world.Enough is Enough
with terrorism anywhere in the world. We all deserve a right to live
and not succumb to fear.

- Posted by Bijoy Jose

November 30th, 2009
11:27 pm GMT Similarly, take this business of Indian consulates. I and
a host of others have asked all those who keep talking about the
threat of these consulates to at least enumerate the numbers and where
they are located and since when. Have you read that question being
addressed anywhere? Yet I can lay a bet, wait another a few days, this
will come up again.
- Posted by Dara

On this point, note that I question any Pakistani who brings this up,
including in official circles. Just because Pakistanis don’t answer
the question on here, I don’t see how this should be an indictment of
a lack of western concern for India and its interests. What are we to
do if Pakistanis aren’t up to answering the question? It’s not as
though we believe them or take their assertions at face value.

This is what I mean, when I say it can be frustrating to deal with
India. This dialogue here is a microcosm of the thousands of
interactions that happen between our diplomats, intelligence
professionals, analysts, military personnel, etc. everyday.

- Posted by Keith

November 30th, 2009
10:37 pm GMT … he was just an aircraft pilot. After he was killed, his
Italian wife who knew no politics got the power baton passed to her.
She controls the nation from behind until her children come off age to
rule.

This is nothing but monarchy in the disguise of democracy. It is the
same leaders with an exercise every five years.

In the US, the Kennedy’s do not control the national psyche this much.
In Cuba you have the Castros.

I do not know how Pakistan would have emerged, had Jinnah lived a
little longer.

India’s monarchy is flourishing. It is really not a democracy in the
real sense. They have no term limits for their politicians and some of
them have grown filthy rich at the expense of others.

Just wanted to clarify. That’s all. I leave the stage for others.
- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

Setting aside the rest of your points which I am sure the Indians on
here will respond to, I find this one curious. You’ve made the
assertion before that voting for actors or cricketers is indication of
an immature democracy.

So what’s the qualification to run for the Presidency or Premiership
in your view? What should we make of Obama who was a Senator for a
mere two years before running for President and was a community
activist before that. Should we have a class of people that are
groomed to rule? I fail to see how that would be any different than a
monarchy.

You’ve also made the point repeatedly that Pakistanis prefer military
rule. Why then, the agitation during the lawyer’s movement? Were those
not Pakistanis on the street?

I have heard this view expressed from Pakistani military officers too
who routinely say Pakistanis can’t handle democracy. The way I see it,
the PA does everything possible to prevent democracy from maturing.
Democracies only mature when voters pay for the mistakes of those they
elect, learn from them and learn to adjust their choices. The American
public got this lesson in spades during the recent Bush presidency.
Why won’t the PA allow Pakistanis the same freedom to screw up? What
was the need for example for Zia to overthrow Bhutto (given that the
East Pakistan was already over at that point)? What was the need for
Musharraf to overthrow Sharif? Does the Army really not trust the
public to make those decisions? Did the PA really think the public
would not have voted out ZA Bhutto at the first chance they got?

Yet the Army jumps in before the public ever gets to make the
decision, rules through the upswing and then just before everything
goes to pot, they hand over a government in impending disaster to a
civilian administration. Don’t you find it curious at all that
Musharraf gave up so easily right before an impending financial
disaster in Pakistan?

- Posted by Keith

November 30th, 2009
10:20 pm GMT Dara,

No offence taken. I think its important to have frank discussions. I
did it when I worked as an analyst and I do it on here.

I also think its important to remember that friends can disagree. And
it is this point that I think Indian diplomacy still has to grasp.

What’s frustrating for Westerners is the fact that while Indians
complain about not getting enough recognition from the West or claim
that the West betrayed them in the past (ironically Pakistanis make
the same claim too), there is very little recognition of the efforts
made by the West to engage India in the post-Cold War era. Yet,
despite all the strides made, Indians expect the West to completely
absorb the Indian viewpoint, and to make it their own overnight.
Anything less is viewed as a lack of progress. For example, if our
threat perception of Pakistan or China, is anything less than 100% in
line with the Indian mindset, then the West is betraying India.

There is little room for give and take here. Look at the lambasting I
got over the suggestion that India’s acquisition of nuclear capability
had shades of an AQ Khan like action. All of a sudden, India is an
exception to the rule and the West should just accept it. Never mind
that the single action by India shattered nuclear and foreign policy
in Canada, for example, led to the formation of the NSG, and lead to a
severe global clampdown on nuclear technological development. Yet,
somehow in the same breath the claim is made that what’s good for the
goose is not good for the gander. So Pakistan’s acquisition of nuclear
weapons in light of the perception of the Indian threat is not
acceptable (talking getting the bomb here, I recognize the difference
of proliferation records).

It is these kinds of ‘with us or against us’ mentality and double
standards that makes the relationship troublesome.

Yes, we recognize that mistakes have been made in the past. But
somehow Indians seem to think that Westerners are superhuman and are
not allowed to make foreign policy mistakes, and if they do its
probably not a mistake but was intentional (a conspiracy theory
mindset at times). Case in point, Pakistan. Increasingly, you are
seeing a shift in the mindset about Pakistan over here. There is a
growing realization that Pakistan has been less than ideally co-
operative post 9/11. We realize now that we were a little naive post
9/11 in expecting full Pakistani cooperation. However, action has been
hampered by the lack of leverage.

This is something Indians can’t seem to understand. The US President
is not superhuman and Pakistan is not a US colony he can fix. The
yanks cajole the Paks, offer them carrots to try and get them to
progress. But at the end of the day there’s only so much they can do.
Consider for example, the CIA checking on LeT camps. The argument was
made that the CIA’s actions show they don’t care about India because
they were only checking for foreigners. Now consider what leverage the
Americans have. They can’t order the Paks to close the camps because
the Paks would simply ignore the order, hide the camps or threaten non-
cooperation with US/NATO forces in Afghanistan. So the best that the
CIA can do is get a shot at inspecting the camps and hopefully share
that information (which is why developing intelligence sharing
mechanisms is vitally important to Indian security). The Paks, of
course, will assume the information has been shared, hide the camps,
till the CIA finds them and the whole cycle recommences. But again,
what leverage do the Yanks have in this case? The best they can do is
try and maintain the peace by offering incentives to the Pakistanis,
while sharing vital information with India.

Some have argued that the US should completely re-align its policy to
the Indian viewpoint. One suggestion, few comments back suggested that
the US should have used Indian bases to bomb India’s nuclear armed
neighbour. Aside from the fact that such a suggestion would probably
do more damage to India than anybody else, I fail to see how a re-
alignment would necessarily ensure US or Indian interests for that
matter. Any full re-alignment would ensure Pakistani non-cooperation,
thereby also ending Western access to useful intelligence that India
can use. In such a scenario, Pakistan would have also resorted to
openly causing havoc in Afghanistan and would have unleashed hell
across the LOC. It was for these reasons that it was judged better for
both parties to keep their efforts separate. A healthy tension between
Western and Indian interests, engenders more Pakistani cooperation
than a relationship where the US is seen as an Indian stooge in
Pakistan.

Anyway to cut my rant short, both sides need to understand where the
other is coming from. From our side there are significant efforts
being made. Can anybody imagine India being admitted to the NSG with a
unanimous vote by every Western nation (including the ones it swiped
technology from) just a few years ago? Clearly, we recognize that
times have changed, we have changed and so has India. All we ask is
for some similar flexibility from India.

Tying it to this post, I have suggested that India should make a more
concrete effort to annunciate its Afghan policy, avoid attracting too
much attention in Afghanistan, and consider growing its relationship
there. And though they might sound contradictory, they can be
implemented in a synergistic fashion. On a broader note, I’ve
suggested that India needs to consider NATO’s interests in Afghanistan
as well, since we’re doing the bulk of the fighting and dying over
there. From this perspective I’ve suggested that India could help by
lowering its visibility (not its efforts or presence). I don’t think
any of that is tough or extremely controversial to implement. Nor
should any of these suggestions be taken as an affront to Indian
dignity.

If we’re all on the same team in Afghanistan, then surely we can work
together and make accommodations where required. Consider that if the
US had wished they could have pressured Afghanistan into minimizing
India’s involvement there. However, the West has long recognized that
India has interests in Afghanistan and a lot to offer to the
stabilization effort. There now needs to be dialogue (although years
late) on what that role is and how India is going about fulfilling its
role.

ps. on a side note, read the recent rumblings on the new US Pakistan
policy which includes specific language requiring action on the Afghan
Taliban, the Haqqani network and LeT. Clearly, the Americans are
coming around to the Indian viewpoint slowly but surely.

- Posted by Keith

November 30th, 2009
10:12 pm GMT Dara,

I am pretty genuine when i do say this,My heart really reaches out
when i see the Kids in Afghanistan.It is the most frustrating thing to
know when a country has been cursed so badly & every political power
through fair or unfair means have exploited for strategic reasons.But
at same time we need to realize India complicates Afghanistan than it
soothes people up there.Our backyard itself is flush with innumerable
headaches,you can’t go & do anything.Long term energy security of
India cannot be a reason to be there,since only through Innovation &
focussed substitution efforts in energy guzzling industry is way
out.This is where you make efforts to invest in right initiative &
galvanize public opinion.

Now to second point on a form of governance surely something like
caliphate sounds absurd to me,this is because you may have one benign
emperor who will be good & another who can be a drunkard,so
perpetuating a race where one man’s family enjoys the benefits through
lineage is not at all good.Secondly a military form which people say
can bring discipline,from what i understand it again spells nepotism
which will go completely unchecked,they may do public looting,appoint
their own henchmen.In democracy the lease of life of a legislator is
fixed & when a Multiparty sytem is fixed moods of the public has to be
obeyed you may swindle still but the courts or newspapers can expose
you,in a military such a thing will invite death sentence or
punishment of varied type.Democracy by itself can’t be successful till
the institution around it are not strong Police,Judiciary,press or
bureacrcy.The gang up of all these institution with Politics is what
has made accountability weaker.The longer independant
institution,public debates are held in right way the mix & match
ultimately will give the right balance.For india this is right thing
to do. As to views whether seperating from indian federation can
improve a state’s prospect i am pretty doubtful,You need funds to
progress which can only come through economic means.Establishing your
own setups,foreign missions,cost of governance makes it impossible for
smaller states.The romance of new ideas is like the first few days of
marriage where excitement wanes down when reality sets in.At the
moment personally i think every educated man should promote democracy
irrespective of whichever nation he may belong.

The thing which is really disappointing & frustrating me is
extremism,religious fanatism which is causing unwanted stress.There is
a systamatic build up of fear,hatred,supramist tendency which is
simply going unchecked.Even if all of humanity follows one particular
religion you still can’t overcome prejudice or hatred.A handsome man
will not marry someone ugly or vice versa,the difference of
language,ancient lineage everything will come into play.It is a ficle
minded arguement by every bigot that scriptures came to them by God &
forcing it to be followed even unwillingly.This poison spread by every
zealots of every religious denomination can only cause harm & no
good.The external manifestation of god’s revealation is not looking
pretty.
The twisted arguement that God saved one person in a group of 100 for
a tsunami accident without blaming him for other 99 makes the case for
fighting religious tendency idiotic.

Once the political aspects of religion is removed then solutions would
be feasible for peace,since the excuse for war in every country
becomes untenable.

- Posted by Vijay

November 30th, 2009
8:59 pm GMT Mr. Keith,

Let me elaborate on one more point that you have raised and then quit
from this topic. I know we are drifting off from the main topic. My
apologies to Myra again.

You mention about the benefits of dynastic rule as follows:

“Dynastic politics are by no means an indicator that democracy is
flawed. Every country has its dynasties (the Kennedy’s and Bush’s in
the US for example). And younger democracies tend to rely on the
founding dynasty for some years when they start out. Had Jinnah
survived for a few more years, I am willing to bet that Pakistan would
have had it’s own version of Gandhi dynastic politics. ”

Dynasties like the Kennedy family are very different from those one
comes across in third world countries. Typically in a third world
country like India, North Korea or Cuba, they will start with a
charismatic leader. These leaders will wipe out all opposition as the
first task. Any serious contender will be relegated to oblivion.
Corruption charges will be brought against such people. Typically in
these countries, there will be only one radio channel or TV channel in
which people will get to see only the face of these leaders day in and
day out. Young children in schools will be brainwashed with the images
of these leaders, their sacrifices, their triumphs and so on. Text
books will be distorted to highlight the achievements of these
leaders. Imagine a country that is mostly illiterate, poor and
backward. An image really helps control these people. As the “leader”
ages, his or her replacement begins to surface. Until then this
“prince” is studying abroad, partying and having fun. One starts
seeing the image of this “prince” along with the “father or mother” of
the nation. Opposition is reduced to naught and in every election, the
“national leader” has a big swing in votes. Election rules are twisted
in order to favor the leader. This kind of system breeds sycophants
and corrupt people who take over the system and proliferate all over.
Corruption becomes the way of life. People become dejected and accept
their fate. Some of these leaders will launch their countries into
wars with others whenever their ratings go low.

In the case of India for example, socialism was touted as the medicine
for national welfare and growth. Nehru ruled for 17 years until his
death. And people looked at his daughter immediately. All others who
filled in the slot were mostly looked at as gap fillers. And Indira
Gandhi came to power. I remember reading the slogan “Indira is India
and India is Indira.” She plainly declared that corruption is part of
life. When she found that she was losing ground, she declared the
emergency and put everyone behind the bars. I do not have to elaborate
on it further. Indians have mentioned on these blogs that she burnt
the country from within. I can quote contributors like Mauryan who
have been caustic about her. Her son was no less a tyrant. Both his
mother and he engaged in the civil strife in Sri Lanka.

In 1991, all these people were dead, falling prey to assassins. That
left a power vacuum in the country. If you look at the states, again
you will see the same thing at the microcosmic level.

India has progressed because of economic reforms and doing away with
socialism that was the policy of the Nehru dynasty. Their democracy
has not changed much and its loopholes are hidden below this economic
progress. Now the new prince and princess are being groomed for
continuing the leadership of the nation. This is 60 years after the
country was born. When Indira Gandhi was killed, they simply voted her
son to power. And he was just an aircraft pilot. After he was killed,
his Italian wife who knew no politics got the power baton passed to
her. She controls the nation from behind until her children come off
age to rule.

This is nothing but monarchy in the disguise of democracy. It is the
same leaders with an exercise every five years.

In the US, the Kennedy’s do not control the national psyche this much.
In Cuba you have the Castros.

I do not know how Pakistan would have emerged, had Jinnah lived a
little longer.

India’s monarchy is flourishing. It is really not a democracy in the
real sense. They have no term limits for their politicians and some of
them have grown filthy rich at the expense of others.

Just wanted to clarify. That’s all. I leave the stage for others.

- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

November 30th, 2009
8:45 pm GMT Anyone care to take this forward?
- Posted by Myra MacDonald

Some benefits of Af-Pak-India working together and developing the
region.

But before that can happen, terrorists camps and talibans must go
away! Trade, Talk and Terrorists don’t go together!

“A route for South Asian peace via Afghanistan”
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/ KK25Df01.html

- Posted by Soman

November 30th, 2009
7:05 pm GMT On this subject, draw your attention to today’s comment by
Gordon Brown on Afghanistan:

“And I can also say that over time our objective is to work for and to
encourage a new set of relationships between Afghanistan and its
neighbours, based on their guarantee of non-interference in
Afghanistan’s affairs and on a commitment to fostering not only its
long term economic and cultural links with other powers in the region
but immediate confidence-building security measures from which all can
benefit.”

The implication is that involvement in Afghanistan by its neighbours
does not have to be zero sum game. In theory it would leave room both
for CBMs and for economic benefits for every country in the region.

As Nikhil wrote:

“Access to energy is the primary benefit for India to have its
influence in Afghanistan and beyond. A relatively stable Afghanistan
unlocks many opportunities for trade and commerce between India and
Central Asia. Energy and economy will continue to be the policy
drivers in India’s foreign policy for years or decades to come.”

Anyone care to take this forward?

- Posted by Myra MacDonald

November 30th, 2009
5:36 pm GMT Keith,

It is not that I am against democracy. In order for democracy to work
effectively, a nation has to reach a certain level of development and
maturity. In that regard I’d say the Chinese are ready for democracy.
But if they find it comfortable to leave the power at the hands of
autocrats and continue with their lives so long as the economy is
doing good, then it is their inclination. For Pakistan, I’d say we are
not ready for it. That is why corrupt leaders take over as soon as any
democratic circus is staged. Just like you mentioned about people
preferring a default party when things do not go well, we put our
faith in the military. They may not be publicly elected, but we need
to get a level of development before we can say we are ready for a
democratic exercise. Our fedual system has to be eradicated first. And
our country has been busy with conflicts in the region way more than
others. So that has to settle down first.

My only point was to the Indians about feeling superior with a
democracy. As I see it, it is more like a circus than a real
democratic process. But that is their choice. In places like Kashmir,
and their North Eastern states, military has unlimited powers and has
no accountability for its actions. In a true democracy states will not
be managed under the gun for so long. The North Eastern states have
been kept forcibly under gun point. If these people are true democracy
lovers as they project themselves to be, let them hold public
referendums in those states and see what their people really choose. I
am sure it will not be favorable to them.

At least Pakistan is being straight forward. We are not pretending to
be something we are not. We have to rely on an institution like the
military until we get to that stage of development when we can choose
which path we should take. Right now, considering the situation in our
country, democracy is not the priority in our minds. We have to let
the dust settle down. We want corrupt people like Zardari brought to
justice.

- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

November 30th, 2009
2:39 pm GMT Vijay,

Allow me to go a step further. Looking at how we are managing certain
aspects of it in this part of the world, I don’t think democracy is
such a hot idea. Unfortunately it is what we have accepted and we need
to work within itslimitations. Sometimes I despair at seeing to what
levels our public discourse has reached.

I also agree that we should not try to influence outcomes for others.
In fact I wish India got off its high chair and stopped talking about
Security Council seats etc. we have a long way to go and need to
concentrate on ourselves for the next many years first. However,
though we shouldn’t try to influence outcomes elsewhere, we need to
maintain co-operation internationally, specially in our neighbourhood
and increase commerce and co-operation. That is essential for progress
to be maintained. It has to be mutually beneficial and a win win
situation for all concerned, only then will it succeed. Again I’m
being idealistic, but really there is no short cut.

- Posted by Dara

November 30th, 2009
1:57 pm GMT Keith,
I really don’t know where to start from here after a two day gap. But
let me dwell on an older exchange with you on Indian involvement.

Firstly I found your opening statement about a sensible post from an
Indian very strange, to put it mildly. On reflection I presume it was
also due in part to the flak you had been receiving and that the
pressure relief valve operated eventually! The fact is I think many
Indians are quite disappointed at the progress, if any, that is made
on any subject. We seem to be stagnating and goping over the same
ground on the same issues.

For example, I don’t know how often this question of pressure on
Pakistan with the talk of forces on its eastern border. I don’t know
how many Indians have repeated the same answer, that it is a matter of
India’s security concern that is India’s priority. The US or Pakistan
or any other country is equally right in reflecting on its own
interests. Yet the same question gets repeated by quoting yet another
foreign ‘expert’ or analyst or diplomat etc. But the Indian answer
just seems to be overlooked. So how often do we have to say, “Hey we
try to learn lessons from history, got our own priorities, we got a
war on terror on our hands too, if you can’t help, that’s ok but
please don’t hinder.” I do not recall Indian concerns, being discussed
at all.

Similarly, take this business of Indian consulates. I and a host of
others have asked all those who keep talking about the threat of these
consulates to at least enumerate the numbers and where they are
located and since when. Have you read that question being addressed
anywhere? Yet I can lay a bet, wait another a few days, this will come
up again.

Not being familiar with how things are conducted, I asked as to how
your recommendation that India should channel aid through the Afghan
Govt. and as to how it is being done at present. Perhaps its a matter
of syntax or our own individual ways of expressing ourselves, but my
doubts and query still persist.

This is not to get personal or rant, but I hope I have been able to
convey, at least vaguely, why there is a certain amount of frustration
creeping in when people answer the same question without their
previous opinions or views even being acknowledged.

Anyhow, feel free to chalk this one up as another rant from an Indian,
no offense will be taken.

- Posted by Dara

November 30th, 2009
1:19 pm GMT Gordon Brown questions Pakistan’s record on fighting
terrorismPM asks why no one knows whereabouts of al-Qaida leaders
Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov /29/gordon-brown-pakistan-
terrorism

At the end of the day, all said and done, every one agrees pakistan’s
main industry is sponsoring terrorism.
[:D]

- Posted by Raj

November 30th, 2009
8:32 am GMT The best arguement against democracy is what Churchill
said ” you just need to speak to a average voter for 5 minutes”.The
point still is democracy works compared to any other form of
government.

A country like USA with unlimited resources,talent & energy has not
been able to fix Afghan, so it is foolish to think Indian army could
have done any miracles there.I think it is now important for India to
look at its own backyard where someone needs to study 1951
demographics to 2001 & understand how everything has been changing
dramatically.When you fast forward to 2035 Islamic caliphate looks a
very real possibility.For first time history of the world will have a
emperor earth.

After looking at referendum vote in switzerland i am just reminded of
need hiearchy theory of Maslow, whether we have orbited beyond
necessity,physical or safety needs in enlightened or poorer society.
Or is it possible that these needs have to be legislated for each
country going forward.For the moment Keith is right he takes umbrage
to head of state position, but i am sure a michael can’t rule Saudi
Arabia as much as Hussain ruling canada or Ahmad as Indian
Primeminister this is unwritten fact.All these political niceties will
be up for real test in next few years.

- Posted by Vijay

November 30th, 2009
8:31 am GMT Keith:

@So please try not to group all of the West in the same club. At
times, we take offence to it, just like how Indians don’t like to be
clubbed in with Pakistanis when it comes to discussions about
democracy and such.
- Posted by Keith

Keith: Please scroll down and read my post again before you type. My
comment was in response to Anjum’s commnent on America (US based upon
your earlier Reagan comment).

He said “American system is set up such that anyone can be a head of
state”-Anjum

I said “NO, practically speaking Christians only.”

Do you disagree?

I am aware of Canada’s politics and Indian sikhs in BC like Dosanjh
going up the political ladder (i give that as an example to admire the
syetem). I know the difference between US and Canada. Not every Indian-
sounding poster thinks the way you assume. So pause.

- Posted by rajeev

November 30th, 2009
6:32 am GMT Keith, Myra,

You have begun to ask if it would be prudent for India to engage its
troops in Afghanistan. This question is late by eight years. When 9/11
happened, there was an expectation in India that the US would turn to
India for help in cornering all parties responsible for global Islamic
terror. Had the US done the right thing at that time, India might have
co-operated by allowing for bases and supplies as starters. Troops
might have been engaged as well. From Indian perspective, global
Islamic terror originates from Pakistan and India has been a victim of
it for a long time. Had the US launched a two-pronged attack - one
directly targeting Afghanistan and another from the South knocking out
Pakistan’s terror infrastructure, by now all elements could have been
driven to the center and dismantled. For India, Pakistan would have
been cut to size and its fangs removed. So India would have co-
operated, considering its own gains. Attacks like Mumbai would never
have happened.

At this time, it is prudent for India to engage in civilian activities
in Afghanistan. A golden opportunity to set things right has been
missed. It is too late to think along those lines now. It is better to
go forward with the current plans of increasing the military strength
in Afghanistan, force Pakistan to dismantle its terror networks, and
launch an all out offensive against the Taliban and Al Qaeda until
they surrender. This objective is very much achievable. Already an
experiment using locals to arm themselves in defending against the
Taliban insurgency has been gaining ground in Afghanistan. It is good
to engage the local people and thwart any future attempts by these
barbarians to regain their power.

India has always invested in constructive activities abroad, while it
has many needs at home. One needs to do both. It is not a small
country and is highly respected and looked up for its stand on many
issues by countries in the third world. It cannot confine all
constructive activities within its borders.

- Posted by KP Singh

November 30th, 2009
6:09 am GMT M. Anjum,

Dynastic politics are by no means an indicator that democracy is
flawed. Every country has its dynasties (the Kennedy’s and Bush’s in
the US for example). And younger democracies tend to rely on the
founding dynasty for some years when they start out. Had Jinnah
survived for a few more years, I am willing to bet that Pakistan would
have had it’s own version of Gandhi dynastic politics.

Countries also tend to have what we call natural governing parties, or
parties that voters tend to default to when nothing out of the
ordinary is going on. However, a sign of maturity is when voters
decide to punish the natural governing party for a poor performance.
And Indians have shown a readiness to do this.

Your measure is extremely pessimistic. If you consider India a flawed
democracy for its run with the Gandhis, I wonder what you would say
about Japan and the LDP!

When it comes to Afghanistan, I can agree that perhaps western
parliamentary democracy may have limited success. But that does not
mean other forms of democracy (the jirga can be one for example) would
not be successful. The key is to help the Afghans find something that
works for them.

Finally, I would hope that Pakistanis aspire to more than military
rule. Why can’t they hold Turkey as an example? That country has not
lost its Islamic identity at all. Heck, the Turks show the world that
Islam can be ‘cool’ and compatible with modernity. Yet it’s staunchly
secular, has a vibrant democracy (the Army only having stepped in to
keep the authoritarian parties who’d threaten said democracy out…and
they hand back power right after) and a well developed economy. What
keeps them strong at their core though is their democracy which
forever fosters debate between the right mix of secularism and
Islamism. That back and forth helps them define a middle ground that
keeps the country moving forward without giving up its traditions. And
although sacrilegious for Muslims to hear this, Israel is another
excellent example of a democracy that mixes secular and faith based
traditions in a vibrant democracy. Is all this too much for
Pakistanis? Do you have such little faith in your people?

- Posted by Keith

November 30th, 2009
5:51 am GMT –NO, practically speaking Christians only.

In India, religion is not bar, if you know India so well.
- Posted by rajeev

Note this does not apply to all Western democracies.

We’ve had an Indian-born Sikh premier for our third largest province
in Canada:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjal_Dosan jh

So please try not to group all of the West in the same club. At times,
we take offence to it, just like how Indians don’t like to be clubbed
in with Pakistanis when it comes to discussions about democracy and
such.

- Posted by Keith

November 30th, 2009
5:31 am GMT Keith,

You asked, ‘Is this India’s intention in Afghanistan or their primary
policy driver? Are they there solely to counter/encircle Pakistan or
is that a secondary driver/benefit?’

- Access to energy is the primary benefit for India to have its
influence in Afghanistan and beyond. A relatively stable Afghanistan
unlocks many opportunities for trade and commerce between India and
Central Asia. Energy and economy will continue to be the policy
drivers in India’s foreign policy for years or decades to come.

The secondary benefit for India is the security of its interests.
India always enjoyed excellent relations with Afghanistan with the
exception of the Taliban regime. If the Taliban are back, with or
without the support of Pakistan, India will be hit harder than the
countries in the West.

I’m attaching a link to an article in WSJ regarding India’s role in
different regions of Afghanistan. India has done remarkably well in
executing development projects while keeping a relative low key
presence in Afghanistan.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12506154 8456340511.html

To summarize, the goals of the NATO and India in Afghanistan are
similar - stability, end to terrorism and development. India sincerely
hopes that Afghanistan, a member of the SAARC, evolves in to a
relatively stable, multi-ethnic democracy.

- Posted by Nikhil

November 30th, 2009
4:10 am GMT Till the truth about Afghanistan’s war is revealed by the
American Government, it is not advisable for a country like India to
participate in the Afghanistan war. I don’t mean the OBL capture
thingy, I am referring to the real thing, which many people know but
do not want to refer to.

India should play it’s cards right and only be involved in the re-
building of Afghanistan from a humanitarian or alternatively a
business-minded perspective. Running headlong and taking the yoke from
the Americans will only result in Obama removing away all the troops
and the onus will then be on India to maintain peace, so that
America’s pipeline dreams are consummated.

The Mumbai attacks probably have something more sinister to them than
just a terror attack. It is surprising how vociferous the US has
become about India joining it’s cause in Afghanistan and being
concerned for it’s security after the attacks. While the US might be
concerned about India’s security, it is high time we Indians learn to
take care of ourselves and hold our own in the global arena, rather
than looking westwards every time someone sneezes.

- Posted by Prashanth

Perspectives on Pakistan« Previous PostNext Post »19:05 November 25th,
2009
India and Pakistan: the missing piece in the Afghan jigsaw

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 3, 2009, 5:51:04 AM12/3/09

I felt ashamed of 1984 anti-Sikh riots: Pranab I felt ashamed of 1984
anti-Sikh riots: Pranab
Punjab Newsline Network
Thursday, 03 December 2009

NEW DELHI: Pranab Mukherjee said he felt “ashamed” of the 1984 anti-
Sikh riots and described the violence as one of India’s “most tragic”
events.

“Every one of us is ashamed that it happened. We cannot get back lives
that were lost. But we can certainly take a vow not to allow it to
happen again,” the finance minister and senior Congress leader told
the Lok Sabha on Wednesday.

The expression of regret came over four years after Prime Minister
Manmohan Singh told the Rajya Sabha he had no “hesitation in
apologising” for the mayhem in which thousands died.

Today, Mukherjee, the leader of the Lok Sabha, was responding to an
emotional speech by Harsimrat Kaur Badal of the Shiromani Akali Dal
questioning why none of those accused in the violence had been
punished even after 25 years.

Mukherjee said he would communicate the sentiments of the House to the
Prime Minister — who had left earlier after attending the House for
the first time this session — and to other ministers.

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/21498/38/

chhotemianinshallah

unread,

Dec 3, 2009, 6:08:02 AM12/3/09

Hindus ask world-class arrangements for India’s Kumbh Mela—biggest
spiritual gathering on earth
Punjab Newsline Network
Tuesday, 01 December 2009

NEVADA(USA): Hindus are asking governments of India and Uttarakhand to
speed-up the preparations for Haridwar Kumbh Mela, termed as biggest
spiritual gathering on earth, starting January 14.

Acclaimed Hindu statesman Rajan Zed, in a statement in Nevada (USA)
today, urged the authorities involved for making world-class
arrangements for the Mela and for showing the incredible hospitality
which was core value of Hinduism and India.

Some Hollywood and other celebrities are expected to participate in
the Mela, according to reports. Tour operators are keeping the
celebrity names hush-hush. Many luxury camps with all-weather cottages
will be set-up on the banks of holy river Ganga for international
celebrities, business tycoons and other VVIPs for the Mela, which is
expecting an influx of about 100 million people. Some American tour
companies are advertising the tour for about $9,000 (airfares not
included).

Rajan Zed, who is the president of Universal Society of Hinduism,
urged Hollywood and other international celebrities to go to the Mela
as pilgrims and not as tourists and in addition to immersing in holy
Ganga waters, also explore the rich philosophy which Hinduism offered.

According to a belief, all sins/evils committed by the Mela pilgrims
and their ancestors back to the 88th generation will be washed away
forever by a dip in Ganga during these dates and that they will
achieve salvation and emerge regenerated and healed. Its observance is
believed to go back to ancient Vedic period and the legend of
“Churning of the Ocean” is associated with it.

Kumbh Mela (pot-fete) will be held from January 14 (Makarsankranti) to
April 28 (Vaisakh Aadhimaas Purnima) and includes 11 bathing dates in
between, at Haridwar, where fast-flowing Ganga enters the plains from
Himalaya. Held four times every twelve years and rotating among
Allahabad, Nasik, Haridwar, and Ujjain (all in India); this Mela takes
place when the planet Jupiter enters Aquarius and Sun enters Aries.

Haridwar Mela will be managed by Uttarakhand State Government, which
will establish a temporary city called “Mela Kshetra” measuring 8X48
kilometers, and including 31 police stations and 36 fire stations to
monitor the crowd inflow and pressure towards bathing ghats (wharfs),
and will have its own administration and traffic rules.

Various sadhus (hermits) are also said to visit the Mela; including
Nagas, who do not wear any clothes; Urdhwavahurs, who believe in
putting the body through severe austerities; Parivajakas, who have
taken a vow of silence; Shirshasins, who stand 24 hours and meditate
for hours standing on their heads; Kalpvasis, who bathe thrice a day.

Various films have documented Kumbh Mela, including “Invocation,
Kumbha Mela” (2008, Fernando del Sol), “Short Cut to Nirvana: Kumbh
Mela” (2004, Maurizio Benazzo, Nick Day), “Kumbh Mela: Songs of the
River” (2004, Nadeem Uddin), "Kumbh Mela: The Greatest Show on
Earth" (2001, Graham Day), “Kumbha Mela” (1989, Michelangelo
Antonioni), “Amrita Kumbher Sandhane” (1982, Dilip Roy).

India has been dubbed the planet’s most multidimensional country,
offering an intoxicating cultural cocktail.

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/21415/92/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 3, 2009, 6:12:29 AM12/3/09

Upset Hindus want withdrawal of “denigrating” image of Goddess Kali
from New York museum Upset Hindus want withdrawal of “denigrating”
image of Goddess Kali from New York museum
Punjab Newsline Network
Wednesday, 25 November 2009

NEVADA(USA): Upset Hindus have asked for immediate removal of an
artpiece from an exhibition at Neuberger Museum of Art (NMA) in
Purchase (New York) which, they say, apparently depicts denigrating
image of Goddess Kali.

Hindu statesman Rajan Zed, in a statement in Nevada (USA) today, urged

NMA authorities to urgently withdraw the artpiece from the exhibition
as it was apparently very hurtful to the feeling of the devotees.
Goddess Kali was highly revered in Hinduism and she was meant to be
worshipped in temples and not to be used indecorously.

Zed, who is the president of Universal Society of Hinduism, stressed
that Hinduism was the oldest and third largest religion of the world
with about one billion adherents and a rich philosophical thought and
it should not be taken lightly. No faith, larger or smaller, should be
ridiculed at; Zed said and added that inappropriate use of Hinduism
concepts and symbols was not okay. We did not understand that why this
artpiece was allowed at the first place to be displayed in publicly
funded museums, Zed argued.

Rajan Zed stated that Hindus welcomed artists to immerse in Hinduism
but taking it seriously and respectfully and not just for improper
showing of Hindu symbols and concepts to advance their selfish agenda.
Casual flirting sometimes resulted in pillaging serious spiritual
doctrines and revered symbols and hurting the devotees. Hindus were
for free speech as much as anybody else if not more. But faith was
something sacred and attempts at belittling it hurt the devotees.
Artists should be more sensitive while handling faith related
subjects, Zed pointed out.

Meanwhile, Bhavna Shinde of Forum for Hindu Awakening has written to
NMA, Purchase College, Lord Mayor of Bradford, and Bradford Museums
and Galleries, requesting withdrawal of the artwork depicting Goddess
Kali at the earliest and saying: Please note that the Deity Kali is
revered as the Mother Goddess by millions of Hindus around the world.
Depicting the Deity as a gruesome figure as in this painting amounts
to irreverence and trivialization of the sacred Deity. It hurts the
religious sentiments of the devout Hindu community that looks upon any
representation or depiction of a Deity as sacred.

Created by a British conceptual artist as a self-portrait and
currently on display at NMA as a part of exhibition “British Subjects:
Identity and Self-Fashioning 1967 – 2009”, the concerned artpiece is
actually part of the collection of Bradford Museums and Galleries in
United Kingdom and has been loaned to NMA as part of a special
exhibition. This exhibition, which runs till December 13, contains
over 60 pieces of art, including videos, paintings and sculpture,
around self-portraiture.

NMA is part of Purchase College of State University of New York (SUNY)
in Purchase. Thom Collins is its Director. Nancy L. Zimpher is SUNY
Chancellor and Thomas J. Schwarz is President of Purchase College
which claims to "offer an exceptional educational experience in a
learning centered environment". NMA portraits itself as the "the
premier museum of modern, contemporary, and African art" and it
presents more than a dozen changing exhibitions each year. Claire
Ackroyd is the Interim Manager of Bradford Museums & Galleries which
is run by City of Bradford. John D. Godward is Lord Mayor of Bradford
City.

Goddess Kali, who personifies Sakti or divine energy, is widely
worshipped in Hinduism. She is considered the goddess of time and
change. Some Bengali poets described her as supreme deity.

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/21257/92/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 3, 2009, 6:21:51 AM12/3/09

India and Pakistan post 26/11
TANVEER JAFRI
Monday, 23 November 2009

One year has passed to 26/11, the biggest terror attack, India has
ever witnessed. Still there is a feeling of sadness and anger among
the people of India. Country can’t forget how the ten terrorists,
sponsored and supported by Pakistan, entered and attacked the
commercial capital of the country, Mumbai.

Last year, on the evening of 26 November, 4 important places in Mumbai
were targeted and 183 people were killed by these cruel terrorists,
whereas over 400 people were injured.

Besides civilians, security many security forces officers also lost
their lives.

This fiasco ended after 60 hours when 9 out of 10 terrorists were
killed and the 10th terrorist, Ajmal Aamir Kasab was caught alive.
Kasab is still under trial for that inhuman incident and the entire
country is eagerly waiting for his execution.

Undoubtedly, most affected people are those who lost their near and
dear ones in 26/11. Nobody can feel more pain than them. But the
people of the country today want to know that after one year of 26/11,
what we learnt from that incident? And what steps are taken to avoid
repetition of such terror attack? Besides, the country also wants to
know whether Pakistan too has learnt from 26/11. Has Pakistan now
decided not to let the terrorists operate from its soil to attack
India? And what is the position of the same Pak sponsored terrorism,
in Pakistan? Whether the demon of terrorism is under the control of
Pakistan army and Pakistan administration or not?

Firstly, if we see the social and political situation in the country
after a year of 26/11, we can see that cooperation between the Centre
and the States, to fight terror, has increased. For quick response to
any terror attack, many steps are being taken to increase the commando
strength. Anti-terror teams of commandos and special zones are being
set up. Modern ways are adopted to keep a watch on the coastal borders
of the country and the strength of the Coast Guard has also been
increased. Other such steps related to security are in progress.

All political parties are one on the issue of fighting terror.
Security arrangements are ensured in sensitive places in the country.
The government of India is trying to shield the country from terror
attacks on the lines of post 9/11, America.

As far as the social situation is concerned, after 26/11, the country
has also become more united across communities and regions. The entire
world seen that the Muslim Council Trust of Mumbai declined to bury
the bodies of 9 terrorists in the Muslim cemeteries. The Muslim Ulemas
also supported this decision of the trust by saying that the attack of
26/11 was entirely anti-Islam and inhuman. Therefore, the terrorists
involved in the attack don’t deserve to be called Muslims, so there is
no question of providing a burial place to them in a Muslim cemetery.
While this attack united all castes and communities in the country,
the people of the Muslim community organized peace marches as well as
demonstrations against Pakistan in many big cities of the country. On
the whole, we can say that after 26/11, the country has become united
in the same way, as was during the Kargil war.

As far as post 26/11 Pakistan is concerned, the entire world is seeing
its deteriorating situation. As a neighbouring country, India always
wants a peaceful and prosperous Pakistan. India is aware of the fact
that if there is fire in the neighbour’s home, the heat is felt to the
neighbours also. But the condition of Pakistan has reached such a
level, where one can’t hope easily for return of peace and prosperity
in that country. The demon of terrorism created and nurtured for
attacking the neighbours, is now bent on destroying Pakistan itself.
The headquarters of the ISI and the Pakistani army are the major
targets of these jihadi forces. Daily there is more than one terror
incident in Pakistan. Most of these attacks involve suicide bombers.
These suicide bombers are not sent by India to carry out attacks in
Pakistan rather these are the offspring of the Pakistani parents.
There socialization and education is in Pakistan. And as a result of
the wrong policies of the Pak rulers, these are today challenging
Pakistan itself. No country should ever pass from such a phase, as
Pakistan is today. Even the Indian people are disturbed by the regular
attacks in Pakistan, particularly Peshawar, but in such a situation,
we Indians can’t do anything more than mourning.

We are more concerned that notwithstanding all these facts and the
grounded image of Pakistan in the world, the responsible people of
Pakistan are still giving childish and irresponsible statements. Such
irresponsible people sometimes decline to accept Kasab as a Pakistani,
sometimes some Pakistani intellectuals start calling Kasab a terrorist
related with Hindu community because there was a red thread tied on
his right wrist during the attack. Whereas the former Prime Minister,
Nawaz Sharif didn’t hesitate in accepting Kasab as a Pakistani
citizen. Similarly, instead of learning lessons from 26/11 and
committing itself to non-repetition of such incident, Pakistani rulers
are busy in finding the possible ‘hand’ of India behind the
disturbance & terror attacks in Pakistan, even if a Pak based terror
group takes the responsibility of the attacks.

Here again, I want to talk about the testimony of the defence minister
of Pakistan, Ahmed Mukhtar after 26/11 in which he publicly accepted
that had the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the parent organization of the LeT, not
been banned, Pakistan would have been declared a terrorist state. As a
result of such wrong decisions of nurturing terrorism, today the
current and former Pakistani rulers are being seen saying that
Pakistan needs sympathy, not accusations and criticism. No doubt,
India has full sympathy with Pakistan but first Pakistan will have to
liberate itself from such fracas jihadis so that peace can prevail in
Pakistan and India too can be saved from the repetition of
26/11.

Tanveer Jafri
columnist

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/21161/140/

Sid Harth

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Dec 3, 2009, 9:55:58 AM12/3/09

December 3, 2009...4:45 am
What We Have Done to Democracy

Arundhati Roy’s New Book Field Notes on Democracy: Listening to
Grasshoppers Looks at What We Have Done to Democracy

Written by Al Huebner Cross-Post from Toward Freedom

The essays in this new book by the brilliant Indian writer Arundhati
Roy cover topics that range from the attack on the Indian Parliament
to the Armenian genocide, and the terrorist attack on Mumbai to George
Bush’s “triumphant” visit to India and Pakistan. But what runs through
all of these essays is a critical look at democracy, as practiced in
those countries that claim to be democracies.

Her examination prompts some important questions. What have we done to
democracy? What have we turned it into? What happens when democracy
has been hollowed out and emptied of meaning?

One place where Roy looks for answers to these questions, although not
the only place, is the Indian state of Gujarat. There, in 2002, a
railroad coach was ser afire and the fifty-three Hindu pilgrims in it
were burned to death. In response, as collective punishment for this
unsolved crime, acts of genocide were carried out against the Muslim
community. (The term genocide is used here with precision – that is,
exactly as defined in Article 2 of the United Nations Convention on
the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.)

In a carefully planned “retaliation,” squads of armed killers,
organized by militias and backed by the Gujarat government and by the
national administration, slaughtered two thousand Muslims in broad
daylight. Muslim women were gang-raped and then burned alive. Muslim
shops, Muslim businesses, and Muslim mosques were systematically
destroyed. One hundred and fifty-thousand people were driven from
their homes.

Roy notes that even today many of them live in ghettoes, with no water
supply, no street lights, no health care. Meanwhile the killers,
police as well as civilians, have been embraced, rewarded, promoted.
And only a short time after the genocide, two of India’s leading
industrialists praised Gujarat as a dream location for finance
capital.

In Gujarat the genocide has been celebrated as the epitome of Gujarati
pride, even of Indian-ness. What Roy calls “this poisonous brew” has
been used twice to win elections. She concludes that this, and a dozen
similar incidents that she describes, are “enough to make you wonder
whether there is any connection at all between elections and
democracy.”

One of these incidents directly contrasts the corrupted form of
democracy that Roy deplores in her book.

When India and Pakistan were partitioned after British rule a
bloodbath followed that claimed the loss of more than a million
people. In the contested region of the Kashmir valley a war has been
going on for decades that has taken more than seventy thousand lives.
Tens of thousands more Kashmiris have been tortured, thousands have
“disappeared.” Women have been raped and tens of thousands of them
widowed. Half a million troops patrol the Kashmir valley, making it
the most militarized zone in the world.

With this as background, in the summer of 2008 a dispute over land
being allotted to the Amarnath Shrine Board escalated into a massive,
nonviolent uprising. Day after day hundreds of thousands of people
defied soldiers and police, who fired straight into the crowds,
killing scores of people. From early in the morning until late at
night the city reverberated with chants of “Azadi! Azadi!.” (Freedom!
Freedom!)

Despite the Indian government’s reaction, enforcing a harsh curfew
with shoot-to-kill orders, arresting the major pro-freedom leaders and
hundreds more, the massive, nonviolent protest continued. Although she
is horrified by the government’s response, for Roy this people’s
plebiscite is democracy at its best .

During the protests banners proclaiming “We want freedom” were often
accompanied by others reading “Long Live Pakistan.” Some of this
expression of affection for Pakistan has to do with the support for
what Kashmiris see as their freedom struggle, and the Indian state
sees as a terrorist campaign. Roy has no illusions about either
Pakistan or India.

She writes that it’s “easy to scoff at the idea of a ‘freedom
struggle’ that wishes to distance itself from a country that is
supposed to be a democracy and align itself with another that has, for
the most part, been ruled by military dictators.” A country whose
army committed genocide in what is now Bangladesh and a country that
is presently being torn apart by ethnic conflict. These are important
issues but “perhaps it’s more useful to wonder what this so-called
democracy did in Kashmir to make people hate it so.”

What it did, of course, was to spend huge amounts of money on weapons,
concertina wire, and prisons in Kashmir, money that could have been
spent instead for schools, hospitals, and food for an impoverished,
malnourished population. Elsewhere in the essay Roy looks more
analytically at the meaning of the word itself, reeling at the
insanity that permits the world largest democracy, as India markets
itself, to administer the world’s largest military occupation and
continue to call itself a democracy.

Nor do democracies reject using torture when there is what they
consider a legitimate reason. Roy reports, with as much restraint as
she can muster, the words of one superintendent of police in India:
“Torture is the only deterrent for terrorism,” he says, adding “I did
it for the nation.” This need to use torture against alleged
terrorists is chillingly similar to what we heard from the highest
elected officials in the US. Torture became policy in India, as it did
in the US, although sometimes the US sent presumed terrorists to other
countries to be tortured.

The subtitle of the book, Listening to Grasshoppers, refers to Roy’s
visit to Istanbul where she gave a lecture about genocide. She was
appalled to learn there that people who speak about the Armenian
version can be jailed under the Penal Code. Some of them have even
been killed by “patriots.” And like those in India who terrorized
innocent Muslims after the burning of Hindu pilgrims, these patriots
were celebrated as heroes by some Turks.

In addition to being dismayed about how democracy is practiced in
India (and many other countries), Roy is outraged at how development
is carried out by that democracy. What is happening, in the name of
development, is that multinational corporations are plundering India’s
natural resources, with the cooperation — indeed with the
encouragement — of the government. Forests, agricultural land, and
water systems are ravaged, the livelihood of millions of people
destroyed. By some strange perversion of language this is called
“progress.”

Clearly Roy worries that what passes for democracy is compatible with,
or actually promotes, torture, repression, and ecological destruction,
reversing among other things the policy of land reform declared by the
newly-independent India. On this last point, farmlands have been
modernized, which means saturated with chemical fertilizers and
pesticides that farmers go into debt to buy, and then gradually leave
the land exhausted and infertile. The consequence of this “progress”
is that over the past few years more than 180,000 Indian farmers have
committed suicide.

Roy mourns for these and the millions of other victims of this false
progress and perverted democracy. And she fears that the debased
democracies on the planet may be doing even more harm to humanity than
the brutal tyrannies that afflict the globe.

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/what-we-have-done-to-democracy/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+teahouse+%28Pak+Tea+House%29

Sid Harth

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Dec 3, 2009, 9:58:14 AM12/3/09

December 2, 2009...8:02 pm
Is it really India?

By Pervez Hoodbhoy Dawn, 28 Nov, 2009

FOREIGN Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi says that Pakistan is “compiling
hard evidence of India’s involvement” in terrorist attacks on
Pakistan’s public and its armed forces.

If he and the interior minister are correct then we must conclude that
the Indians are psychotics possessed with a death wish, or are perhaps
plain stupid. While India’s assistance for Baloch insurgents could
conceivably make strategic sense, helping the jihadists simply does
not.

As Pakistan staggers from one bombing to the other, some Indians must
be secretly pleased. Indeed, there are occasional verbalisations: is
this not sweet revenge for the horrors of Mumbai (allegedly)
perpetrated by Lashkar-i-Taiba? Shouldn’t India feel satisfaction as
Pakistan reels from the stinging poison of its domestically reared
snakes?

But most Indians are probably less than enthusiastic in stoking fires

across the border. In fact, the majority would like to forget that

Pakistan exists. With a six per cent growth rate, booming hi-tech
exports and expectations of a semi-superpower status, they feel that

India has no need to engage a struggling Pakistan with its endless

litany of problems.

Of course, some would like to hurt Pakistan. Extremists in India ask:
shouldn’t one increase the pain of a country — with which India has
fought three bloody wars — by aiding its enemies? Perhaps do another
Bangladesh on Pakistan someday?

These fringe elements, fortunately, are inconsequential today.
Rational self-interest demands that India not aid jihadists. Imagine
the consequences if central authority in Pakistan disappears or is
sharply weakened. Splintered into a hundred jihadist lashkars, each
with its own agenda and tactics, Pakistan’s territory would become
India’s eternal nightmare. When Mumbai-II occurs — as it surely would
in such circumstances — India’s options in dealing with nuclear
Pakistan would be severely limited.

The Indian army would be powerless. As the Americans have discovered
at great cost, the mightiest war machines on earth cannot prevent holy
warriors from crossing borders. Internal collaborators, recruited from
a domestic Muslim population that feels itself alienated from Hindu-
India, would connive with jihadists. Subsequently, as Indian forces
retaliate against Muslims — innocent and otherwise — the action-
reaction cycle would rip the country apart.

So, how can India protect itself from invaders across its western
border and grave injury? Just as importantly, how can we in Pakistan
assure that the fight against fanatics is not lost?

Let me make an apparently outrageous proposition: in the coming years,
India’s best protection is likely to come from its traditional enemy,
the Pakistan Army. Therefore, India ought to now help, not fight,
against it.

This may sound preposterous. After all, the two countries have fought
three and a half wars over six decades. During periods of excessive
tension, they have growled at each other while meaningfully pointing
towards their respective nuclear arsenals. And yet, the imperative of
mutual survival makes a common defence inevitable. Given the rapidly
rising threat within Pakistan, the day for joint actions may not be
very far away.

Today Pakistan is bearing the brunt. Its people, government and armed
forces are under unrelenting attack. South Waziristan, a war of
necessity rather than of choice, will certainly not be the last one. A
victory here will not end terrorism, although a stalemate will
embolden jihadists in south Punjab, including Lashkar-i-Taiba and
Jaish-i-Mohammad. The cancer of religious militancy has spread across
Pakistan, and it will take decades to defeat.

This militancy does not merely exist because America occupies
Afghanistan. A US withdrawal, while welcome, will not end Pakistan’s
problems. As an ideological movement, the jihadists want to transform
society as part of their wider agenda. They ride on the backs of their
partners, the mainstream religious political parties like the Jamaat-i-
Islami and Jamiat-i-Ulema-Pakistan. None of these have condemned the
suicide bombings of Pakistani universities, schools, markets, mosques,
police and army facilities.

Pakistan’s political leadership and army must not muddy the waters,
especially now that public sanction has finally been obtained for
fighting extremism in Swat and Waziristan. Self-deception weakens and
enormously increases vulnerability. Wars can only be won if nations
have a clear rallying slogan. Therefore the battle against religious
extremism will require identifying it — by name — as the enemy.

India should derive no satisfaction from Pakistan’s predicament.
Although religious extremists see ordinary Muslims as munafiqs
(hypocrites) — and therefore free to be blown up in bazaars and
mosques — they hate Hindus even more. In their calculus, hurting India
would buy even more tickets for heaven than hurting Pakistan. They
dream of ripping apart both societies, or starting a war — preferably
nuclear — between Pakistan and India.

A common threat needs a common defence. But this is difficult unless
the Pakistan-India conflict is reduced in intensity. In fact the
extremist groups that threaten both countries today are an unintended
consequence of Pakistan’s frustrations at Indian obduracy in Kashmir.

To create a future working alliance with Pakistan, and in deference to
basic democratic principles, India must be seen as genuinely working
towards some kind of resolution of the Kashmir issue. Over the past
two decades India has been morally isolated from Kashmiri Muslims and
continues to incur the very considerable costs of an occupying power
in the Valley. Indian soldiers continue to needlessly die — and to
oppress and kill Kashmiri innocents.

It is time for India to fuzz the Line of Control, make it highly
permeable and demilitarise it up to some mutually negotiated depth on
both sides. Without peace in Kashmir the forces of cross-border jihad,
and its hate-filled holy warriors, will continue to receive
unnecessary succour.

India also needs to allay Pakistan’s fears on Balochistan. Although
Pakistan’s current federal structure is the cause of the problem — a
fact which the government is now finally addressing through the newly
announced Balochistan package — it is nevertheless possible that India
is aiding some insurgent groups. Statements have been made in India
that Balochistan provides New Delhi with a handle to exert pressure on
Pakistan. This is unacceptable.

While there is no magic wand, confidence-building measures (CBMs)
continue to be important for managing the Pakistan-India conflict and
bringing down the decibel level of mutual rhetoric. To be sure, CBMs
can be easily disparaged as palliatives that do not address the
underlying causes of a conflict. Nevertheless, looking at those
initiated over the years shows that they have held up even in adverse
circumstances. More are needed.

The reason for India to want rapprochement with Pakistan, and thus end
decades of hostility, has nothing to do with feelings of friendship or
goodwill. It has only to do with survival. For us in Pakistan, this is
even truer.

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/is-it-really-india/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+teahouse+%28Pak+Tea+House%29

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 5, 2009, 4:06:46 AM12/5/09

Hurriyat leader shot at in J-K; LeT outfit responsible

IANS

Published on Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 19:36, Updated on Sat, Dec 05, 2009
at 07:24 in Politics section

Srinagar: Senior separatist Hurriyat Conference leader Fazal Haque
Qureshi was shot at and critically wounded outside his house by
unidentified gunmen in the Jammu and Kashmir capital on Friday
evening, police said. The Al-Nasreen, believed to be an off-shoot of
the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Qureshi, a senior leader of the moderate Hurriyat group headed by
Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, is said to be one of the most vocal supporters of
the dialogue process to solve the Kashmir issue.

The attack on him is seen as an attempt to derail the "quiet dialogue"
reportedly going on between the union government and the Kashmiri
separatist leaders.

He was shot at and critically wounded outside his Soura house on
Friday evening when he was leaving for prayers at a mosque. Four men
shot at him from close range.

The Al-Nasreen called up some local dailies claiming responsibility
for the attack.

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah condemned the attack,
saying it was "an attempt to derail the peace process". The Chief
Minister, however, hoped the attack would strengthen the people's
resolve in Kashmir to pursue peace more actively.

He also said that the security of all moderate Hurriyat leaders was
being reviewed.

"We are reviewing the security provided to all the moderate separatist
leaders. Fazal Haque Qureshi had also been offered security, but he
had declined the offer", Omar said.

Doctors at the Sher-e-Kashmir Medical Institute Soura (SKIMS) are
battling hard to save Qureshi's life who was brought there in a
critical condition after the attack. Doctors said a bullet has pierced
his head.

Meanwhile, Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, the chairman of the moderate Hurriyat
group, Muhammad Yasin Malik, chairman of the Jammu and Kashmir
Liberation Front (JKLF) and some other separatist leaders rushed to
the hospital immediately after hearing about the attack.

The moderate Hurriyat group has called for a complete shutdown here
Saturday to protest the dastardly attack on a senior leader of the
conglomerate.

Qureshi shot into prominence in August 2000 when he mediated between a
group of Hizbul Mujaheedin guerrillas and the then union home
secretary.

The four commanders of the Hizbul Mujaheedin, led by the outfit's then
operational chief Abdul Majid Dar, had come to hold talks with central
government after Dar announced a unilateral ceasefire in July 2000.

The moderate group of the Hurriyat has been reportedly in secret talks
with the Indian government to find a solution to the Kashmir issue.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/hurriyat-leader-shot-at-in-jk-let-outfit-responsible/106481-37.html

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 8, 2009, 1:11:34 PM12/8/09

Tuesday, December 08, 2009
Afstan: Getting the Quetta Shura Taliban in US sights
Further to this post,

Time to make a decision about attacking Taliban in Baluchistan

the Americans are upping the pressure on the Paks (and it's important
for the CF across from the Baluchistan border at Kandahar):

The Obama administration is turning up the pressure on Pakistan to
fight the Taliban inside its borders, warning that if it does not act
more aggressively the United States will use considerably more force
on the Pakistani side of the border to shut down Taliban attacks on
American forces in Afghanistan, American and Pakistani officials said.

The blunt message was delivered in a tense encounter in Pakistan last
month, before President Obama announced his new war strategy, when
Gen. James L. Jones, Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, and John
O. Brennan, the White House counterterrorism chief, met with the heads
of Pakistan’s military and its intelligence service.

United States officials said the message did not amount to an
ultimatum, but rather it was intended to prod a reluctant Pakistani
military to go after Taliban insurgents in Pakistan who are directing
attacks in Afghanistan.

For their part the Pakistanis interpreted the message as a fairly bald
warning that unless Pakistan moved quickly to act against two Taliban
groups they have so far refused to attack, the United States was
prepared to take unilateral action to expand Predator drone attacks
beyond the tribal areas and, if needed, to resume raids by Special
Operations forces into the country against Al Qaeda and Taliban
leaders.

A senior administration official, asked about the encounter, declined
to go into details but added quickly, “I think they read our
intentions accurately.”

A Pakistani official who has been briefed on the meetings said,
“Jones’s message was if that Pakistani help wasn’t forthcoming, the
United States would have to do it themselves.”

American commanders said earlier this year that they were considering
expanding drone strikes in Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas [i.e.
Quetta area], but General Jones’s comments marked the first time that
the United States bluntly told Pakistan it would have to choose
between leading attacks against the insurgents inside the country’s
borders or stepping aside to let the Americans do it...

Even before Mr. Obama announced his decision last week, the White
House had approved an expansion of the C.I.A.’s drone program in
Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas. A missile strike from what was said
to be a United States drone in the tribal areas killed at least three
people early Tuesday, according to Pakistani intelligence officials,
The Associated Press reported.

Pakistani officials, wary of civilian casualties and the appearance of
further infringement of national sovereignty, are still in discussions
with American officials over whether to allow the C.I.A. to expand its
missile strikes into Baluchistan for the first time [emphasis added] —
a politically delicate move because it is outside the tribal areas.
American commanders say this is necessary because Mullah Omar, the
Taliban leader who ran Afghanistan before the 2001 invasion, and other
Taliban leaders are hiding in Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan
Province.

Pakistani officials also voice concern that if the Pakistani Army were
to aggressively attack the two groups that most concern the United
States — the Afghan Taliban leaders and the Haqqani network based in
North Waziristan — the militants would respond with waves of
retaliatory bombings, further undermining the weak civilian
government...

posted by Mark, Ottawa at 9:58 AM

1 Comments:

Agwho said...
I know it is a silly what-if question, and I know next to nothing
about Pakistani politics, but part of me does wonders what things
would look like now if Musharaf was still in power.

10:10 AM, December 08, 2009

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2009/12/afstan-getting-quetta-shura-taliban-in.html

Sid Harth

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Dec 8, 2009, 4:46:26 PM12/8/09

Zardari gained financial benefits after graft cases dropped: NAB
PTI Tuesday, December 8, 2009 18:16 IST

Islamabad: President Asif Ali Zardari allegedly gained financial
benefits worth billions of dollars when graft cases against him were
dropped under a law that has now expired, according to documents
submitted by Pakistan's anti-corruption watchdog to the supreme court
today.

The documents provided by the National Accountability Bureau (NAB)
showed that Zardari had been accused of illegally amassing assets
worth $1.5 billion and Rs22 billion, mainly during the period when his
slain wife Benazir Bhutto was the premier in the 1990s.

Zardari was charged with amassing assets beyond his means of income
and these cases were dropped under the controversial National
Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO), issued by former military ruler Pervez
Musharraf two years ago.

NAB submitted the documents in the apex court after a 17-judge bench
headed by chief justice Iftikhar Chaudhry sought details of all
beneficiaries of the NRO, which expired on November 28 after the
government failed to get it endorsed by Parliament within a deadline
set by the apex court.

The bench yesterday began hearing challenges to the expired law and
the amnesty granted under it to over 8,000 people, including Zardari
and several of his close aides.

The documents provided by NAB further stated that several corruption
cases were registered against Zardari for allegedly causing losses to
the public exchequer by misusing his authority during his tenure as a
minister in his late wife's Cabinet.The cases included the alleged
misuse of authority to grant concessions to shipping companies and a
gold importing firm and to purchase tractors for a government-run
scheme, according to the documents.

These cases involved alleged losses of hundreds of millions of rupees
to the public exchequer, the documents stated. All these cases too
were dropped under the NRO.

The government yesterday informed the court that it would not defend
the NRO, raising the possibility of fresh legal challenges to Zardari
holding the post of president.

Legal experts believe Zardari, whose approval ratings have hit rock
bottom, could face more trouble if the apex court declares the NRO
illegal and challenges his eligibility for the post of president.

Zardari has dismissed the corruption charges against him, saying they
were politically motivated and fabricated by the previous military
regime. He has maintained that he enjoys immunity from prosecution by
virtue of holding the post of
president.

Acting attorney general Shah Khawar told reporters at the supreme
court today that Zardari was "protected under the Constitution" and
the current case would have no "adverse effect" on him.

Even if the NRO was not promulgated, Zardari could have contested
elections for parliament and the presidency, he said.

Besides Zardari, several of his close aides, including interior
minister Rehman Malik, defence minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar and
senior Pakistan People's Party leader Jahangir Badr, benefitted from
the NRO.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_zardari-gained-financial-benefits-after-graft-cases-dropped-nab_1321554

bademiyansubhanallah

unread,

Dec 9, 2009, 9:11:43 AM12/9/09

Muslim can become PM if he is capable: Rahul
PTI 7 December 2009, 01:53pm IST

ALIGARH: Religion does not matter when it comes to becoming the prime
minister and a Muslim can get the top job provided he is the most
capable person for it, Congress leader Rahul Gandhi said here on
Monday.

"It is not about what religion or community you come from, it is what
you bring to the table, what capability you have," he said in an
interaction with students of the Aligarh Muslim University.

He was replying to a question that having come a long way after
Independence how much more time will it take for India to have its
first Muslim prime minister.

"Today, Manmohan Singh is not the Prime Minister of India because he
is a Sikh. He is the Prime Minister because he is the most capable
person to do the job.

"And let me tell you something that even when you do have a Muslim
prime minister, he will be a prime minister because he is the most
capable person," 39-year-old Gandhi said.

He told a questioner, "You need to step up and the number of leaders
coming out of your community needs to go up. You got today a Sikh
prime minister that nobody would have ever imagined in a country of
over a billion people that we would have a Sikh prime minister. Sikhs
are a very small percentage of this country."

Gandhi said his effort was to involve people from different
communities and from different parts of India in the political
system.

Exhorting Muslim youths to participate in national politics in a big
way, Gandhi said, "Increased participation of Muslim youths is the
ideal way to take on problems not only of the Muslim community but the
country as a whole."

He said it was unfortunate that today there was hardly any young
Muslim leader active in national politics.

Earlier, Gandhi was given a rousing reception on his arrival at the
AMU campus. He first drove to the grave of AMU founder Sir Syed Ahmad
Khan to pay tributes.

The Aligarh Muslim University Teachers' Association, which also hosted
a reception in his honour, described his visit as "historic" and
called Gandhi "the modern face of Congress party in India."

Muslim can become PM if he is capable: Rahul

Vineet Gaurava,Chennai,says:The Question asked to Rahul was "when will
India see it's Muslim PM?", & the answer is -"India has already seen a
Muslim PM, Indira Gandhi/Maimuna Begum." What a absurd question --
Indian PM is not some community leader & he does not hold the chair
for "Muslim,Dalit,Mahadalit,Christian,sikh,Brahmin,etc..". & is that
not enough that the present PM has repeatedly said, "MUSLIMS have the
first right on the Indian resources".
[9 Dec, 2009 1401hrs IST]

anonymous,kolkata,says:seems rahul gandhi forgot about Md.Jinnah, who
was an educated, who had a great leadership quality and he was just a
single person(publicly) who leaded above 90% muslim of unpartitioned
india and took away almost 33% of our land for the 26% muslim during
partition of india to make islamic pakistan and forced many hindus and
sikhs to leave their ancestral land also killed many of them. this
history will repeat again if we make a muslim our prime minister |
There's a fact that world knows when muslim live in less power they
talk about secularism, democracy, humanity once they get the power
they impose islam, sharia law and arabic culture on nonmuslims with
the help of their islamic sword and spear| Don't you think secularism,
democracy and humanity is better than Islam,sharia and telebanism?
Beware Hindu,Sikh,Jain and Buddhist brothers and sisters. Vande
Mataram |
[9 Dec, 2009 1334hrs IST]

Bob the builder,hyderabad,says:readers first of all try to understand
on what basis rahul made this statement. dont just show ur pathetic
negative response before learning what the actual point is.
[9 Dec, 2009 1330hrs IST]

Jayprakash,Mumbai,says:For congress who can be the most suitable,
competent and their Favorite candidate than Azmal Kasab. The very idea
to keep him alive till next election is to make him Indian National,
get him elected and make him Prime Minister of Hindustan. Good Luck
Rahul.
[9 Dec, 2009 1320hrs IST]

Mukesh Devrari,Hyderabad,says:Anyone can become Prime Minister.
Legally there is no bar. Rahul Gandhi made of politically correct
remark. Person of any religion can become Prime Minister, if he
propagates, promotes and accepts that no religion is bigger than this
country. This country is supereme. A person who feels first as Indian
than as Muslim or Christian or Hindu can be a PM. Those recognize
themselves by their relgion are certainly not welcome to become Prime
Minister of India.
[9 Dec, 2009 1305hrs IST]

edho,"Gandhi",says:not only Muslim,a person from an religion or
country can be a PM if he belongs to the Nehru family which has Gandhi
as last name,see SONIA,just missed out because of BJP.Indira Gandhi's
husband was Muslim,but I guess he did not like politics
[9 Dec, 2009 1300hrs IST]

Hasan Khan,Pune,says:It would have been a real spirit if you say that
every person who has the qualities can become the PM. Please stop
rationalising us. At the post of CM, PM or President of United India
the person should not think he is Hindu, Muslim or any other religion
he has all the right to practice. Dear Rahul, We want a developed
INDIA which should have adequate food, water and housing facility for
every person, electricity for every house. And we do not want any
Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sikh or any other person to become CM, PM
and segregate us as per our religion and keep us backward. A person
like you should take initiative to unite our Country which is most
required right now when our religious leader and politician doesn't
want at all otherwise how can they get the vote as they dont have the
right points to win the elections on grounds of development. We have a
lot of faith on you please stop being a politician be a leader that is
what we need right now to lead our INDIA to the highest point. (Please
post this one TOI)
[9 Dec, 2009 1252hrs IST]

Raj,PoK,says:How about 'reservations' and 'quotas' in line with the
current 'reverse apparthied' regime in India? What a joke of a
question to ask a politician!
[9 Dec, 2009 1219hrs IST]

Jose,India,says:Appreciate Mr. Rahul's thinking...in line with the
current Gen. Education and Quality is important to be in such a high
position. Its the quality of a person that should make him a Leader
and not the religion.
[9 Dec, 2009 1216hrs IST]

HRIDAY,Kolkata,says:Yeah they can become the PM of course if APJ Abdul
Kalam makes such a great President..but point is..what was the reason
of mentioning that in Aligarh University ... to show secularism? There
you are caught, Rahul..you are a big hypocrite as your mom is and
Man.. you are really lucky that you are in India where you (with kurta
pajama and khadi dress--image make over)can dream of becoming the PM..
Indians love to lick the shoes of the foreigners whoever he is..and so
you will actually implement your dream of becoming the PM. And listen
my dear PM aspirant, if its a secular country, then we dont need any
clarifications on whether a Muslim or a christian can become a PM or
not. In the NDA era,APJ Abdul Kalam became the President without your
favor or recommendation.And we all loved him. We never thought what
cast he belongs to..DID YOU GET THAT? So, please stop playing like
Mulayam. We hate you Rahul.. hate your mom and hate your pseudo
secular Govt too.. Its our shit luck that we would see you as PM of
India.. ~Ray
[9 Dec, 2009 1203hrs IST]

swami chandarmoli,delhi 40,says:capable can not become a prime
minister,jagjiwan ram was most capable,but could not,in vaish
community,many capable leader,but could not become a prime
minister,president in india.To become a prime minister in india,should
be loyal to soniya,should be member to a power full community ,just
like,JAT,AHIR,RAJPUT,BRAHMIN
[9 Dec, 2009 1145hrs IST]

Shakil,USA,says:I think question is misunderstood by media...
Questions should be "Why there is no big mustlim leader in India?" Why
there is no business man from Muslim Community? In last 60 yrs, where
are muslim?.... Why after each 10 yrs there is one always rite? Please
please think on this, Muslim don't need PM from their
community..Muslim should ask for PM who can understand their problems.
[9 Dec, 2009 1141hrs IST]

VIshal Bhatia,Bahrain,says:WHEN WILL PAKISTAN HAVE A HINDU PM OR
CHRISTIAN PM & WHY IS THIS POINT BEING RAISED WITH MUSLIM COMMUNITY
KEPT IN PICTURE. I LIVE IN BAHRAIN AND THEY TREAT OTHER RELIGIONS LIKE
SHIT.. THEY ONLY HAVE RESPECT FOR ISLAM. ASK ALL MUSLIMS TO SING
VANDEMTARAM, ASK ALL MUSLIMS TO SAY INDIA COMES BEFORE THEIR RELIGION.
WHAT HAVE THEY CONTRIBUTED TO THEN NATION.. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE APJ
ABDUL KALAM, AZIM PREMJI AS PM'S NOT SOME LUNATIC FROM MADRASSA OR
ALIGARH MUSLIM UNIVERSITY WITH A LONG BEARD AND SAYS ALLAAAHH MILLION
TIMES A DAY..CHEERS
[9 Dec, 2009 1102hrs IST]

Dwj,Mumbai,says:Remember a muslim home minister? It is not medieval
period. The fag end of a modern 20th century only. A foolish PM who
promised muslim districts where all they are in mjority, by name
"Weepy" Singh,(who always only wept when he was in power)nominated a
muslim as home minister. As usual, the secular media showered
encomiums on him for having nominated a muslim for such an important
post. What happened? An abduction drama was enacted and the government
of India danced to all the tunes of the terrorists. The abductee said
that she was only helping her "Brothers". The same person along with
his daughter is creating ruckus in kashmir now. It is self-deceiting
to beleive mulims change with times, medieval or modern.So if a muslim
is to become a PM, India will no longer be India or Bharat but
talibanistan.
[9 Dec, 2009 1029hrs IST]

Javeed,Kuwait,says:What ever he said at AMU is more than enough to
make fool of muslims! & Now onwards i can assure atleast 90% votes of
Muslims are with congress!!! iN FACT If he will look around he will
find many persons not only in Muslim but also in other community who
are cable of becoming a PM.
[9 Dec, 2009 1024hrs IST]

A Mirza,Indore,says:Many people here are having a misconception that
Rahul Gandhi's Grand father was a muslim. This is all rubbish. His
grand father was "Feroze Gandhi" and was a Parsi. He led a very active
political life and was "NOT" just a shadow of Nehru Parivar. I would
suggest that people should read history before commenting.
[9 Dec, 2009 1019hrs IST]

anonymous,kolkata,says:seems rahul gandhi had forgotten about
Md.Jinnah while speaking at AMU, jinnah was educated, he had a great
leadership quality and he was just a single person(publicly) who
leaded above 90% muslim of unpartitioned india and took away almost
33% of our land for the 26% muslim of unpartitioned india to make
islamic pakistan and forced many hindus and sikhs to leave their
ancestral land and also killed many of them. this history will repeat
again if we make a muslim our prime minister | There's a fact that
world knows when muslim live under non-muslims control they talk about
secularism, democracy, humanity once they acquire the power they
impose islam, sharia law and arabic culture on nonmuslims with the
help of their islamic sword and spear| Don't you think secularism,
democracy and humanity is better than Islam,sharia and telebanism?
Beware Hindu,Sikh,Jain and Buddhist brothers and sisters. Vande
Mataram , Bharat Mata Ki Jai
[9 Dec, 2009 0952hrs IST]

Rehman,Hospet,says:Very good advise from the probable Prime Minister.
Please remember the words and keep your promise as soon as a good and
able leader from Muslim Community emerges. Thanks. H.K.Raheman.
[9 Dec, 2009 0919hrs IST]

shiva L,Bangalore,says:good initiative http://jobcollections.blogspot.com
[9 Dec, 2009 0906hrs IST]

Anil,Raipur,says:You are Muslim too - Grand Son of Firoz khan. So you
want to say you want to become Pm from muslim quota or based on
Merits.
[9 Dec, 2009 0850hrs IST]

Anil,Raipur,says:You are Muslim too - Grand Son of Firoz khan. So you
want to say you want to become Pm from muslim quota or based on
Merits.
[9 Dec, 2009 0849hrs IST]

Narasimha,Hyderabad,says:Mr. Rahul ... every indian citizen will
qualify to become PM if he is Capable ... dont get Religion into
picture.
[9 Dec, 2009 0826hrs IST]

Sumesh,Dubai,says:Many including the media are talking this out of
context without looking at why this was answered and also why this
line was picked up? Rahul was asked for which he answered, and could
have expressed in a different way that "Any INDIAN who is capable can
be a Prime Minister" as simple as that. But then one does not think
between the lines when questions are poured upon and Rahul answered
straight to the point. It is the media who picked up this line and all
of us discussing, including me to be ignored as it is a known fact
that anyone can take up any role within this country irrespective of
Caste and creed, which is proven time and again. That is why INDIA is
INDIA
[9 Dec, 2009 0822hrs IST]

Avi ,Cebu City , Philippines,says:Rahul's right ! This statement comes
from a true indian !
[9 Dec, 2009 0712hrs IST]

Abdul,Bangalore,says:Poor guy; Rahul should have answered by saying
"Anyone with right competecies can become Prime Minister". Intention
was not to appease Muslim, it was a just a query that he probably
could have handled better. Some comments are laughable because they so
obbsessed with sonia Gandhi that Rahul has to bear the brunt!
[9 Dec, 2009 0649hrs IST]

N.Shekar,Bangalore,says:A muslim or christian or a sikh can become the
prime minister of India. THE ONLY CONDITION IS HIS SURNAME SHOULD BE
GHANDHI. How come Rahul and the congress can give such statements?
There have been so many muslim presidents and we know how they were
treated by the congress party. Mr.Abdul kalam ,mr.Fakruddin Ali Ahmed
are a few who can be named.
[9 Dec, 2009 0627hrs IST]

Neeraj,UK,says:That actually is an incomplete statement...as in half
silent which goes like...has the blessings of the dynasty and is
willing to wag his tail in darbar....Coming from a person who not very
long ago made a statement "had i wanted to become PM I fwould have
done that 5 years ago", time we should slam such imbecile, calculated
divisive and irresponsible remarks.
[9 Dec, 2009 0439hrs IST]

dave,schaumburg,says:Rahul, ask you grand-dad if he was capable enough
to be the PM. Ask your father if he was capable enough. Ask your Grand
Mom if she was capable. All of them are the nehru dynasty people. If
Nehru was capable he would have let Jinnah be th e PM. Incapable
leaders are bleeding India, barring few like ATAL, PVN, Manmohan rest
is pure trash and " the worst is devegowda, Chandra. Charan Singh etc
[9 Dec, 2009 0328hrs IST]

Sunil,Sydney,says:Will his family allow a Muslim to become the next
leader of the Congress Party and allow that person to be PM? Congress
Party should be named the NGP ) Nerhu Gandhi Party. What non-sense
from this man who lives with a silver spoon in his mouth and does not
have to worry about being capable his family name is enough.
[9 Dec, 2009 0313hrs IST]

MChand,canada,says:looking at the history of Gandhi Nehru - Khan
family, Is Mr Rahul making him a way to be PM ?
[9 Dec, 2009 0250hrs IST]

Sidarth,Mumbai,says:I'm Hindu and If I ever want a Muslim PM My vote
would be for real Indian patriot APJ Abdul Kalam.... I don't want
those stupid Skull cap, Beard Madrassa educated crooks in that Aligarh
university, I bet that will be the end of India. Just wondering who
would dare to be PM when this idiot(Rahul gandhi) is there. India is
still not prepared to have a Muslim for the top job. It is still a
conservative country unlike USA(The most diverse country on Planet)
where anyone can become President just like Obama.
[9 Dec, 2009 0044hrs IST]

Indian,India,says:Why not suggest Italy, your mother homeland instead
of India. That is where you and your family belong.
[9 Dec, 2009 0043hrs IST]

C.S.Dixit,NewDelhi,says:The Prime Minister of India is the Prime
Minister of India is he suposed to be a
Hindu,Muslim,Chirstian,Sikh,Jain,Budhist etc.? I think this question
should never be asked or replied.Even after 62 years of
independenceand practicing secularisim in our nation such talks does
not reflect the intigrity of some people who think that they represent
a community to the beleif of unity in diversity.
[9 Dec, 2009 0020hrs IST]

Indian,India,says:Hi Rahul, U missed an oppourunity but if ur Great
Grandafther would have been alive, u must have very well asked him why
didnt he gave up the prime minister seat to Jinnah(As suggested by MK
gandhi) and stopped the division of this country. Jinnah was very much
capable we all know that.Sir As far as I know this is the only
homeland for hindus and we have been ruled over for more than 2000
years.So please become the prime minister at once(real motive behind
these statements) but stop giving all these statement.....
[8 Dec, 2009 2307hrs IST]

suren singh sahni,sydney,says:How dare anyone else can become Prime
Minister of India and challenge the Nehru dynasty.India has made more
progress under non Nehru Prime Ministers.Once your apprentice ship is
finished then you can become the Prime Minister.So far no muslim is
capable of becomming PM is a far fetch joke
[8 Dec, 2009 2252hrs IST]

MSB,USA,says:@PKG,Surat,says - Bad comment !
[8 Dec, 2009 2244hrs IST]

Pradeep Rangarajan,Madras,says:What nonsense Ambika. We are now in a
democracy not in mideival times with emperors. Grow up for heavens
sake. Sane people of India would rather have an able, just, and
charismatic Indian PM as opposed to a Muslim or a Hindu or a Sikh or
whatever, and we definitely would like to see the likes of Ambika
packed off to more insane places around the world.
[8 Dec, 2009 2207hrs IST]

khalida,hyd,says:Its not that a MUslim or A hindu who will b the prime
minister? But a person who ve the talent and ppls faith need to b a
prime minister
[8 Dec, 2009 2201hrs IST]

Elias,Pune,says:Unfortunate that this question came up from a group of
educated illiterate muslims of Aligarh university.
[8 Dec, 2009 2126hrs IST]

M.Mercy,Hyderabad,says:Mr.RahulGandhi has had a pep talk with his
Muslim admirers when he said any Muslim can also become a Prime
Minister provided he is as efficient as Dr M.M.Sigh a sikh who is now
the Prime Minister of the country.He knows pretty well that Dr.Sigh is
nominated Prime Minister by Mrs.Sonia Gandhi with a clear
understandthat he would vacate the seat the next movement his mother
asks him to do so, as and when he is ready to take over.Every Muslim
boy or young man should pray to God that he too be blessed with a
mother such as Mrs.Sonia Gandhi to prop his son to that position.
[8 Dec, 2009 2103hrs IST]

Elan,asia,says:Anybody can become PM. Rahul can also become PM. It is
a free country. It should also bring laws for dual citizenship after
elections. God bless all.
[8 Dec, 2009 2040hrs IST]

Ambika,Phagwara,says:When India was under muslim rule it has lost
everything, we can't afford that time again. Also at what basis Dr. A.
P. J. Abdul Kalam has been bypassed for Mrs. Pratibha Patel for the
top job and you have become the general secretary of youth wing of
congress. There are lot of capable people for this post in congree,
still u have been chosen. I think it is so true for rahul "Ganga Gaye
to Ganga Ram Yammuna Gaye to Yammuna Das" (Mr. chameleon).
[8 Dec, 2009 2039hrs IST]

Raj,USA,says:Rahul, This statment is not only foolish,childish but
also a pure fantasy of bulk of nonsense.By saying like this you are,
on one hand trying to appese a certain community for your vote bank
politics, but at the same time you are insulting all those
nationalists leaders who had sacrificed their lives for thiis great
country called India that is Bharat. Your great grandfather Nehru,
your grand mother Indira Gandhi, your father Rajiv, sardar vallabbhai
Patel etc etc, were alive today and listenedto this nonsense, they
would have commited sucide in holy Ganges! I liked you as a youth
leader till date but now I have second thoughts. I knew all along that
your DNA is not pure, it is BHRUST, meaning it is mixed with a Italian
mix.If this country's power center is in the hands of only bunch of
crooks like you, only God can save India as He always did! I know you
want to be a shahid in the eyes of Muslims in India, but it is a very
foolish thought. Be wise and get married now and settle properly
because it is only when one is a imbalanced bachelor, such irrational
thoughts come in mind! This feeling may have a thought of a billion
people.Praise The Lord brother!
[8 Dec, 2009 1948hrs IST]

Puroorva,Montreal,says:Why was this question so important to the
student who asked it? A pm is decided based on capability and not by
rotation to each community. Show the capability and become one. Isn't
the student asking the question equally narrow and that only his own
community matters to him.
[8 Dec, 2009 1940hrs IST]

sandeep,dubai,says:Dear Editor This comment is not any anti religion
feeling, but why are all the comments towards PRO Hindu and Pro
Muslims. We all need to uplift ourselves then the relgion thing as we
are INDIANS and we should be proud of being an INDIAN. IMAGINE INDIA
being devided by religion and race and language by politicians, they
did in 1947 when jawahar divided our 26 states based on language and
now ignorant rahul makes susch statements. INDIA is one, we are one,
we have to trust in our country. There is no country like INDIA. In my
office, we have Hindu, Cristian, Muslim, Jain, Sikh all working
together and we know the discrimination and jealosy other western and
arabs have for our unity. Imagine this - One food - One language - one
religion - one culture and one history and Muslim Arabs are living in
26 countries and fighitng amongst themselves and with their own so
called brothers. Also Imagine this - 26 types of food - 26 languages -
so many religion - different cuture - different hsitory and INDIA is
one country. GOD BLESS INDIA HELL to Politicians
[8 Dec, 2009 1936hrs IST]

jaime,Spain,says:I have no doubt people shall be judged by their deeds
rather than their proceeds. To command we need people free from
religious narrow minded commitments. The identity is that we are human
beings, no religion no caste but capabilities that count. Everything
else is a biased person , we donot need to be back in the 16th century
where they are installed.
[8 Dec, 2009 1915hrs IST]

Shailendra ,MUMBAI,says:India has had Muslim Presidents, the topmost
post in Indian governance. President is the head of India and the
council of Ministers headed by the Prime Minister report to him. I
fail to understand why Muslims and some people clamour for the second
highest post i.e. Prime Minister of India instead of the highest post
of President of India. As Mr.Rahul Gandhi has rightly said if the
person is capable to be the PM he will become the PM. Which means that
if your dreams are low how will you rise. Every winner likes to take
the first place and would never dream for the second post, so are you
a WINNER?. So my request to fellow Indians is that if you want to
dream big dream to be the President of India or else you can opt for
the PM's post. We never had any problem with Dr.Abdul Kalam being the
President of India. Jai Hind!
[8 Dec, 2009 1906hrs IST]

Eshant,Bangalore,says:Can anybody suggest any other line or anything
else he could have said at that location and time..:-) but yes, that
is true, when our president can be of muslim why not prime minister.
[8 Dec, 2009 1857hrs IST]

Pravin Kapadia,USA,says:It seems like all real Indian people are
getting lightening call from Rahul Gandhi by he and his terrorist
followers are heading in the direction of his grand father like to
create whole India as second Kashmir. It sounds like we are not far
away from that situation if whole India do not wake up from reality
and throw them out of power like foot ball kick. No body thought
during independence that India will have to go through to their life
time to resolve Kashmere issue. Here Rahul is a kid and do not have
any sense what he is bluffing and harming our holly Hindustan.
[8 Dec, 2009 1850hrs IST]

Manik,London,says:Mr. Gandhi, On what basis you have elected our
president Pratibha Patil over a muslim qualified president our beloved
APJ Abdul kalam? Do you have any answer, damn it qualification... You
congress people afre hippocrates
[8 Dec, 2009 1848hrs IST]

ashok,USA,says:I think at least Rahul ideology is much better compared
to RSS and VHP, whose only motive is to destroy India, in the name of
so called stupid "hinduvta". Rahul at least promotes secularism, but
these good for nothing groups just promote communal riots Its high
time, these groups should be labelled terrorists.
[8 Dec, 2009 1843hrs IST]

Desh Prami,Gujrat,says:WELL SAID. When Muslim can become US president.
Why not in India. For the readers information -- India was ruled by
Muslim Kings for 1500 Years -- Long Live India ! Long Live Rahul
Gandhi !
[8 Dec, 2009 1749hrs IST]

Mahesh Naik,Mumbai,says:His fathers father was ?.So is he trying to
say he is fit to be a PM.INDIANS don't care about the religion but if
a uneducated moron is to be a PM..God bless this Nation.
[8 Dec, 2009 1737hrs IST]

Babu,Chennai,says:Classic example of vote bank politics. Look at the
headline: "Muslim can become PM if he is capable: Rahul". As if some
one earlier told that a Muslim can not become PM. Media should ignore
such statements. A responsible meatured leader should say "Any Indian
can become PM if he is capable - religion doesn't matter".
[8 Dec, 2009 1728hrs IST]

Sunil Ptabhudesai,Panaji Goa,says:I am in favour of such statement
because India is the only country in the world where there are more
hidden talents than visible. Most of the times visible talents do not
allow the hidden talents to crop up. The capable person can be good
leader and with good numbers of followers he or she can rise to any
such adorable heights. the important aspects to reach such a position
is to be sincere, non corrupt, assertive, pragmatist and with positive
attitude. I am sure no matter from which religion he is the person is
capable to reach to any heights. I extremely thank the TOI fro raising
such worthy debates which will unite the country.
[8 Dec, 2009 1710hrs IST]

Qadeer Shareef,Riyadh,says:I appreciate and welcome Rahul Gandhi's
suggestions,religion or community does not matter, but capability does
matter.If a person is capable then he may be given top job.
[8 Dec, 2009 1627hrs IST]

Dibya,Chennai,says:The question was: "having come a long way after
Independence how much more time will it take for India to have its
first Muslim prime minister?". The answer should have been: "having
come a long way, since mideval age, why muslims can not get rid of
their Burqa and other mideval thoughts and practices?". Now that Rahul
Gandhi has answered their question in positive, we may expect this
question also:"When will we have a Maulana preaching in a Madrasa
become a PM?". Now no one should question their capabilities. But,
altogether, the question was very pertinent, this is so because it is
"Rahul Gandhi and Mom" only who decide who is to be India's PM. Smart
audiences!!
[8 Dec, 2009 1521hrs IST]

Ram ,Africa,says:Is Mr.Gandhi trying to say that there have been no
capable person from the Muslim community till date to take the
position of the PM? Mr.Gandhi the congressmen have reserved that post
of PM for the Nehru family.It comes as a birth right for them whether
they are capable or not.We can see that Rahul is the PM in making for
the next term.Watch out dear muslim brethern dont get carried away by
these Pep talks.
[8 Dec, 2009 1518hrs IST]

pankaj,Nangal,says:I am not fully agree with some of your comments .
Rahul is decent man and i don't think he gave any wrong comment where
we have to discuss here like this .. He just said anyone can be prime
minister if he has capability to manage the things and its correct, PM
post is not so easy . As PM you represent your country in world and
take such critical decision that can helpful or can be harmful for
country. so without experience ,capability and proper education no
body can prime minister . If you remember last visit of our PM and
discuss about baluchistan. <ONE Wrong COMMENT HAD PUTTED INDIA IN
TROUBLE> so i think people who belong to any cast/religion/ color can
be PM .if he has capability. Dr Manmohan sigh is good economist and i
remember that because of his intelligence and strict decision India
able to improve its economic. and still as PM he play active role to
take out our country and world from recession. So stop putting these
stupid comments and please try understand what he want to say..
[8 Dec, 2009 1431hrs IST]

Sentu,Kuala Lampur,says:Rahul, every one knows this that who is
capable and politically shrewd can be PM. But still then you told this
because you are hankerer for the PM post and your try for this started
already.Why some one come out and kick this communal Rahul on his ass.
[8 Dec, 2009 1412hrs IST]

Gaurav,Mumbai,says:A great tactic to woo muslim votes. Palpable that
Congress is so desperate to make a hold in UP n much likely, Congress
do this just to b in power, if not sooner then later. But, Mr. Gandhi,
our nation governs on its constitute law n not by any religious book.
The ppls u r talking abt doesn't consider the constitute law of the
nation above all but considers only their Sharia above all. So, plz,
make it sure, the person u r planning to make our next PM, atleast
capable of thinking that the constitute law of the nation is above
all. Rest, v all know, v r on Ram Bharose n not on Govt. of India.
[8 Dec, 2009 1403hrs IST]

Apurva,Mumbai,says:Very good reasoning by Rahul Gandhi. I hope this
system of having the most capable peole run the Govt and Gandhi family
handle the political side of things continues. Its good for India ,
but alas its a matter of time before chamchas of the parivar will
install Rahul as PM even though he may be not the best man for the
job. As on today Narsimha Rao was most capable PM after Nehru and now
Manmohan Singh. I hope Chidambaram becomes next PM if Congress wins
next time.
[8 Dec, 2009 1348hrs IST]

DP,Gurgaon,says:It is immature to comment that what muslims are and
what they are not. Some of the comments are too generalised. If
Muslims can become Presidents of India why not PM? Is Rahul trying to
say that President is a mere rubber stamp? May be true. Shame on
politicians... for votes, they can utter anything to appease any
group, be it minority or majority. This needs to stop! We all are
human beings and then 1.2 Billion of them are Indians. I care a damn
who becomes our PM... I would prefer a PM made of his own rather than
ruled by a proxy.
[8 Dec, 2009 1327hrs IST]

s n bhandarkar,mumbai,says:Rahul Gandhi has not said anything
new ,India had two muslilm presidents in the past which also is the
highest post in the country.His statement today is aimed at muslim
votes.
[8 Dec, 2009 1326hrs IST]

g balakrishnan,bangalore,says:no doubt Rahul is a new face of this
democracy. he is right it is only calibre counts and not what
community you belong to. he is right. First such experiment is done by
his mother Sonia Gandhi when she chose Dr.Man Mophan Singh to become
PM of India which none would have done in India and so she is
innovative and cvreative leader but she enjoys great awe from her
party men and why even other parties. One day a Parsi , A Muslim,
Chritian and all denominations of religions after all that is the
purpose of secularism. Rahul is also as or more innovative and
creative in his approaches, when opther parties bat for their clans
ande see Mays does myopic drama of putting her statues and Kanshi Ram
that terchnic will not work with younger generation, after all it is
said Child is the father of man in Tintern Abbey
[8 Dec, 2009 1319hrs IST]

PKG,Surat,says:Was his father capable? Dr. Manmohan Singh is prime
minister becuase kids of Sonia are not grown to be prime minister. He
is a gap filling mechanism. Sonia is confident that he will not damage
her control over copngress.
[8 Dec, 2009 1318hrs IST]

Ofcourse,India,says:Ofcourse, why not. India will have a muslim PM the
very next day that Pakistan has a Hindu PM.
[8 Dec, 2009 1317hrs IST]

Indian,India,says:@ ashok mehdiratta,Noida, the correct answer should
have been - any capable Indian, irrespective of his religion or caste,
can become the PM of India (provided ofcourse that the Gandhi family
approves).
[8 Dec, 2009 1316hrs IST]

Ram,India,says:I thought Rahul, would become a better leader, I
thought he was educated, I dint expect such kind of statements from
him... I kindly request him to go to pakistan and elect a muslim prime
minister there... hemare Hindustan mai aise bhul khabi mat katna.
[8 Dec, 2009 1307hrs IST]

Non-communal,India,says:Now that IS a communal statement. If you were
talking about ability as a PM, you could have just said 'any capable
Indian can become a PM'. That would have been a secular statement. The
moment you added the word muslim, it became a communal statement. This
IS the reason people call your party as pseudo-secular. THESE are the
tactics which are branded as Minority Appeasement. But then you are
not doing anthing different than what your forefathers did. So it was
neither surprising nor unexpected.
[8 Dec, 2009 1300hrs IST]

sasi menon,delhi,says:Our young Rahulji should be more careful during
public speech. Not only muslims, any body can become PM if HE/SHE is
capable. President also - eg - Dr. Abdul Kalamji.
[8 Dec, 2009 1235hrs IST]

krish,chennai,says:If cong in power for next 10yrs we the Hindus will
loose identity and become minority status loosing our pride.Just to
get votes from minority community cong is playing the dividing game
which will lead the country to another type of partition.Unless we
unite and change the govt.the hinduism will disappear from the history
by this century.
[8 Dec, 2009 1210hrs IST]

Navin,Guwahati,says:A PM is one who looks after the country as a whole
and be he/she muslim or a hindu is not a consideration for being a PM.
And not even PM, be it any post, ofcourse, other than religious posts.
Rahul ji has rightly answered to the question asked by a girl aged 21.
I must say she is an idiot who has wasted such a great chance to
interact with a youth icon of India by asking such a stupid question
which holds no significance. Well, India is a democratic country and
every person has a right to ask whatever he/she wish to but that shows
the thinking and ideology of today's youth ( a 21 year old girl asking
If a Muslim can become a PM?) who, in my opinion, should be more broad
minded and instead of giving religion a top hand must consider human
values first. There are greater problems like poverty, corruption,
illiteracy and a lot more facing India. Why not discuss such problems
instead of this not so important religious issues which only bring out
communal violence and nothing? Please, use your brains and understand
that we need to be united as a people of India and not as Hindu or
Muslim to see a prospering India which is independent financially,
economically and powerful enough to fight against terrorism and other
unsocial events that hamper the peace and unity of a country.
[8 Dec, 2009 1205hrs IST]

vimal joshi,gurgaon,says:I have a question for Rahul Gandhi - Have you
any capability to be PM? Why are you making fuss out of Muslims all
the time. You politican always say MUSLIM, MUSLIM, MUSLIM, what wrong
they have done to you. Who are you to decide this? Did you appointed
Mr. Abdul Kalam as President of India. Did you send Beer Abdul Hamid
to fight for his country. Did Abdul Hamid asked you to lay his life
for his motherland. There are many muslims who hold top place in
India. They did not requested to help from Rahul Gandhi for that. Each
and every muslim love his country and they do not need any political
approval, this is the matter of their heart. There are more than 25
muslim countires and they have fought war against each other because
they love their country. ALL MUSLIM LOVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY. And we all
know "APANE WATAN SE BAD KAR KOI WATAN NAHI HOTA". This you can verify
from the people who work out of our country, they will tell you the
importance of MOTHERLAND, where you are free to do everything and
where you get due respect. Being a muslim do not disqualify from being
PM - note Mr. Rahul Gandhi please. Do not make fuss. Let us (we poor
people) live in peace. We are facing lot of problem earning our bread.
Can you give us bread and butter Mr. Rahul Gandhi. No you can not -
then do not try to take away our peace of mind. I pray to almight god
to give us strength to understand these evil politicians.
[8 Dec, 2009 1159hrs IST]

Indian,India,says:Rahul and Sonia Gandhi are both Christians and since
they have come conversions have been taking place like never before.
[8 Dec, 2009 1151hrs IST]

Tushar,India,says:Lucknow and Azamgarh are Wahaabi dens where militant
Islam is being taught.Aligarh Muslim University is one of them.Why
Congress is not giving incentives for Sanskrit based universities or
any of their leaders are not visiting them?It is time that students of
such communal wahhabi universities are boycotted and people should not
give employment to these students.
[8 Dec, 2009 1147hrs IST]

khalif,bangalore,says:I can smell vote bank politics by Rahul but I
feel this is better than the politics by BJP. Their politics will
divide the nation. I am seeing lot of hate statements for this topic?.
Any way what is wrong if a Muslim becomes a Prime Minister ?. Does our
country so much dependent on thi PM post ?.
[8 Dec, 2009 1142hrs IST]

Pushkar,Mumbai,says:ASK MUSLIM TO RECITE VANDE MATARAM FIRST!IF
ITALIAN SONIA BECOME PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS THEN MUSLIM CAN ALSO BECOME
PM! Minority appeasment has been agenda of congress since
preindependence.This statment is also part of same. If sufi follower
Abdul Kalam become President then why cant any muslim become PM?? For
him bharat is above religion Islam.They have to come out of illiterate
ulemas and madarassa and adapt modern eduction system.They have to do
family planning, have to forget cricket team in their home.This
statments revelas same path of Neharu who is resopnsible for Partition
of india with JInha and gandhi.
[8 Dec, 2009 1128hrs IST]

Indian,India,says:When did Rahul Gandhi ever visited a Sanskrit based
university?This is the fact that Muslims see themselves as Muslims
frst and not Indians.They are so narrow minded that they are not
bothered abt who becomes PM and what his credibility is.Will they
accept Osama Bin Laden as India's PM just because he is a Muslim?
[8 Dec, 2009 1127hrs IST]

vimal joshi,gurgaon,says:My dear Muslim brothers do not go on the
words of Rahul Gandhi. He is a politician. He is just appeasing you
only for his political gain. Every true Indian who love his country
can be PM, there is no issue, then why making this an issue. We have
so many Muslim who held top place in our country. We have great muslim
like Ibrahim Lodi, Beer Abdul Hamid and our beloved President Shri
Abdul Kalam, who truly loved their country. We need not any
recognition from politicians that muslim love their country or could
be PM. Ture muslim always love his motherland and there is no need for
political recognition. Politicans always make fuss from everything. If
they had used such energy what they use in creating fuss India would
have developed as developed nation and we would be living out of
poverty.
[8 Dec, 2009 1121hrs IST]

Dr A R More,UK,says:Rahul should have added another adjective in his
appraisal of qualification of a capable Prime Minister and that would
be non-corrupt. The country has sbstandard nearly everything and the
basis of this is dishonest deals, behaviour and corruption among
politicians to start with and then it cascades down to the humble Babu
in an office or a policeman on the beat. If Rahul continues in the
same vein as he is with dealing with 'any religion' as a criterion for
PM, if he added 'non-corrupt' people will take more notice.
[8 Dec, 2009 1115hrs IST]

Manoj Joshi,Kharghar, Navi Mumbai, Maharashtra,says:His statement is
absolutely correct, and should be fully endorsed. India is a Secular
country and people from all religions are eligible for the post of
becoming the Prime Minister of India provided they have the required
competance. We can have a Prime Minister who is a Muslim, Christian,
Parsi or even if he is a Jew. Let not religion be given weightage when
the Political Head of a Secular Nation is to be chosen. India is a
'DHARMA NIRPEKSHA RASHTRA' and not a 'HINDU RASHTRA'as the BJP and
their allies want this nation to be. Dr Manmohan Singh is seen as an
economist and a professional person who is most appropriate for this
post. Let us not read between the lines of Rahul Gandhi. The media too
must refrain from giving unnecessary coverage to his views simply
because he belongs to the Nehru Gandhi family.
[8 Dec, 2009 1059hrs IST]

Hindustani,Hindustan,says:Rahul, there are enough terrorists killing
the innocent, see how to save the country, rather than playing vote
bank politics. We poor hindus know that Congress is the other name of
Muslims, you dont have to tell it. Congress is an other Mogul Empire,
I really dont know when India will be free of this Black cloud. God
save India.
[8 Dec, 2009 1005hrs IST]

natraj bajaj,colon,says:does rahul knows what was india before 1947.
his mother received golden india without doing any sacrifice or hard
work Rahul want power not INDIA for real hidustanijai hind
[8 Dec, 2009 0954hrs IST]

sisiro,Parliament,says:Rahul: Wouldn't you be able to get a good sleep
unless you talk some nonsense? Why alienate the Muslims in the first
place, and then make such a silly statement? Who said that they are
not Indians? We are, in fact, feel sorry for India having people like
you, you want to get things done hereditarily or using the last name
"Gandhi". Don't you feel that Gandhis and Nehrus have done enough
damage to an otherwise prosperous country called India? Would you ever
ask your mom how much black money she is stashing away for the
family?? Give us a break man.
[8 Dec, 2009 0949hrs IST]

smali,Riyadh,says:There were eligible persons like, Maulana Abul Kalam
Azad, Shaikh Mohd. Abdullah, Dr. APJ Abbul Kalam to name a few
suitable for the PM job, but denied due to what? Congress to reply.
[8 Dec, 2009 0939hrs IST]

Anil,China,says:Hey..you all guys are giving so much important to the
statement given by Junior Gandhi. Why this Man is so important? Why
India, Indian politics and Indians can never come out of Gandhi's. Why
Indian politics is all arround Gandhi?. What Qualification does he
hold to be so much important in Indian Politics. He just came in
politics 2-3 years ago and holding only few years of experience, why
he is even more important than PM. We have a leaders, holding more
than 20 years experience of Indian politics, why donot we focus on
them., why we are not giving them that important, and only running
behind Gandhi? please please please...just for shake of India change
the way of your thinking...
[8 Dec, 2009 0816hrs IST]

MP,Chicago,says:Rahul, I think you need to be matured on your
thoughts. All Indians knows that PM can be anybody whether he / she
Hindu, Muslim, Christian etc. You and your party must concentrate on
you development of India while ruling country. So advise is just dont
talk about future. You have got an golden opportunity to prove.. So
prove it that Congress is better!!!
[8 Dec, 2009 0805hrs IST]

Chetanms,Ahmadabad,says:Rahul forgot to add that A Muslim can become
PM only if he is not only capable but Congress president wishes same
too simultaneously.==Jay Hind
[8 Dec, 2009 0730hrs IST]

ashok mehdiratta,Noida(UP),India,says:Most of the comments are full of
Hate and reflect a bias against Rahul.While I am no fan of his,the
statement was in response to a question from those who had invited
him. What should he reply? He has replied correctly and sensibly.We
had three Muslim Presidents,various ministers,Army Generals,Sikh
Defense Minister, Sikh Army and AF chiefs.Why should we always make an
issue out of a Non Issue.
[8 Dec, 2009 0717hrs IST]

Harry,US,says:Yes a Muslim can become Prime Minister if he is capable
provided he is BORN INTO NEHRU DYNASTY.
[8 Dec, 2009 0709hrs IST]

Jimmy,Jabalpur,says:Uh Uh, the read between the lines guys: If you
want to be PM, and if you are not capable, you need to be a Gandhi -
Rahul is! Besides, what did they do with the super-capable his
highness Ex-President Dr. A.P.J. Kalam? They replaced his highness
with a puppet president. And the only reason Congress still happened
to keep the power is not because it is "capable", the reason is it is
the least "un"-secular party. Sorry for the confusion Rahul, we had no
other choice! As far as your government's capability goes, you've
showed us down on almost every forum- both at domestic and
international levels. Copenhegan deal, nuclear deal, justice for riot-
affected Sikh families, 26/11, terrorism, Naxalism, justice for Union
Carbide mishap victims. The list is endless. If you still think its
your capability, somebody - rightly capable - is gonna take the hat
away! Till then keep boasting - of what?
[8 Dec, 2009 0548hrs IST]

Chandru Narayan,USA,says:Any one capable of duping the people, telling
lies, constantly promising the poor roses that are without thorns,
giving quotas and preferential treatments to work for the government,
stealing from the rich and making it sound like they are helping the
poor, taking it from people who have one or two children and giving to
the dirty dozen producers, strong arming votes and cheating the people
who believe that the electronic voting machines cannot be manipulated,
giving great promises only to make many many misses of the promises
are all important traits to rule India. "ASATYA MEVA JAYATE"
[8 Dec, 2009 0523hrs IST]

Kalidas,World,says:What Rahul should tell people of India is if Hindus
and people of other faiths can live with honour and equal rights in
Pakistan! Can a Hindu or someone who is not Muslim can ever become
prime minister of Pakistan or any where in the middle east ???
[8 Dec, 2009 0441hrs IST]

AB,IN,says:Why then Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was not made the Prime
Minister instead of Nehru?
[8 Dec, 2009 0358hrs IST]

Albeur,uk,says:What Rahul Gandhi said IS RIGHT.He is a learned person,
young,with a broader vision for India,( unlike a lot of our present-
day politicians ). He even made a UK politician experience what life
in a low-cast Indian family is like.!!!. This story has spread around
UK in Rahul's favour. Also, when "India was shining" process, why did
the Indians choose Congress?? I think, at the end of the day, Indians
are not stupid!!!--Hi Hi.(mei kyaa karoon?.
[8 Dec, 2009 0337hrs IST]

manju,new york usa,says:who is rahul gandhi fooling.he did not do any
thing about this country.just being born in gandhi family he and his
itlian mother sonia(married in gandhi family)taking advantage of poor
indian people.beside giving lectures try to fit in their shoes.
[8 Dec, 2009 0228hrs IST]

sushil verma,usa,says:The question was stupid and the answer more so.
Any one can become the prime minister of India if he/she is supported
for the position by a majority of MPs. Capability is not always the
criterion. We have enough examples of that. You can become the king if
the kingmakers deem you to be compliant and serve their interest.
Caste, creed or religion are not the issue.
[8 Dec, 2009 0208hrs IST]

Narayan,San Jose,says:Kudos to Rahul for answering this question in a
right way. Let us hope that one day we have as good a prime minister
as Manmohan ji is, who happens to be a muslim. I think the key is
capabilities and not thinking in terms caste & religion like Lalu and
Narendra Modi.
[8 Dec, 2009 0208hrs IST]

Kajal,UK,says:I think it is foolish to ask when we are going to have a
Muslim prime minister? People should know what is democracy? We are a
democratic country any one can be our prime minister.
[8 Dec, 2009 0155hrs IST]

Sonya,USA,says:Why make such statements??Haven't we had muslim
presidents in the past? It is people like these who give a caste or
religion based color to everything.
[8 Dec, 2009 0141hrs IST]

Sanjay Trivedi,Goa,says:Where was the congress's ideology of calling
themselves a secular party disappeared, when the whole nation was
emotionally backing Dr.A P J Abdul Kalam,for a second term, as The
President Of India, who made this post more honourable.The congress
with the support of handful of parliamentarins and legislators, showed
him the way out,going against the wishes of more more than 110 crore
Indians.They have been using the communal card and exploiting muslims
from the very begining after independence.They are responsible for
partition of India, seperation of Bangadesh and whatever is going on,
because of Kashmir.Dear Rahul,you all think the qualification to lead
the country is basically to be from Nehru/Gandhi family, but kindly do
Indians a favour,and qualify yourself a little more,so that we can
atleast go to the world and say that now we have a graduate P M in the
making from the Gandhi family.
[8 Dec, 2009 0140hrs IST]

Vineeta,NJ,says:So why is Mr.Rahul Gandhi saying this now, everybody
with a brain knows this if they read the constitution of India! Why is
Mr.Rahul Gandhi wasting time on giving such already known obvious
advice?
[8 Dec, 2009 0122hrs IST]

Topsy Turvy,Mumbai,says:Hi. Sab golmaal hai bhai. Sab golmaal hai!
Bravo Mr Rahul!
[8 Dec, 2009 0115hrs IST]

Deepak pateriya,Indore M.P.,says:I am to this Rahul statment but in my
personal openion person is as like as our former presedent Dr.AP Abul
kalam Azad.
[8 Dec, 2009 0112hrs IST]

Tom,USA,says:I am surprised with people's comments on this! Why are we
so upset with a decent comment from Rahul? What is wrong in saying
that the PM post is for the true leader based on his/her merits, not
because of religious affiliation? As many of the readers mentioned,
the Gandhi's are a good model for communal harmony, with multiple
religion in their own family. I think that's what make them more
qualified to be true leaders. Why are we so much upset about people's
personal lives and religion? We are a democracy. Let people choose or
change their religion as they like. If they find merit in their own
religion, let them continue; if they find another one better, let them
change; or if they do not believe in God at all, let them be atheists.
Why are we so much worried about others religion and try to interfere.
If you think your religion is good, show it in your life so that
others might follow. We really need to get out of this narrow
mindedness to fit in the 21st century.
[8 Dec, 2009 0016hrs IST]

Sarosh Sepai,USA,says:So many of you comment without reading the
complete article and without knowing the facts: 1) Rahul is simply
responding to a question put forward by a student. He is not raising
an issue. 2) Feroz Gandhi was a Zoroastrian, not a Muslim. 3) Rahul
must have answered so many questions but this one was made to stand
out by the media because the media likes to sensationalise sensitive
issues for sales - see how many of you read this article :) 4) Wake
up!!! Pakistan is no more a part of India. Finally.....be proud you
are an Indian FIRST, before you go on to distinguish your self on
religious grounds. If you are a Muslim and don't see your self as much
of an Indian FIRST, then go apply for Pakistani or Saudi
citizenship...or better go to the middle-east, train with the Taliban
and blow yourself up. If you are a Hindu and don't see your self as
much of an Indian FIRST, then go and join some Hindu extremist group
or better Raj Thakare's party (goonda gang). So guys....use your
brains and stop fighting like idiots.
[7 Dec, 2009 2357hrs IST]

Uday S,india,says:A Prime Ministerial candidate is somebody who
arises, who declares oneself BEYOND the clutches of religion, cast,
creed. Thats a honor that one carves out for oneself. A Muslim being a
PrimeMinister is a possiblity, as a possiblity for India and the
World.
[7 Dec, 2009 2342hrs IST]

Godwin,Iraq,says:what a stupid news, from a stupid politician,may be
one month back i read in this news online from toi , muslims can not
sing VANDE MATHARAM, because it is against thier religion,agreed, may
be RAHUL GHANDI OR CONGRESS PARTY is ready to make a muslim PRIME
MINISTER OF INDIA can he sing VANDE MATHRAM.TOI here after pls. dont
give imp. of such stupid news in your papers or online,that too told
by a incompitent and stupid politcians like RAHUL GANDHI OR SONIYA
GHANDI, this is simple only gaining minority suffort and there votes
during the election time.
[7 Dec, 2009 2329hrs IST]

Dr.(Prof)Vijay Kumar(Retired)R.U.,Ratu,Ranchi,Jharkhand,says:As per
Rahul till today there does not exist any capable Muslim as none from
the Muslim succeeded to become the PM.
[7 Dec, 2009 2322hrs IST]

Prem.Palliyalil,UAE,says:I absolutely agree with what Mr. Rahul said
the capability of the person is important not that his caste, creed,
relegion, language or so so. But then if Congress is a so called
secular frontleading party and they have a party under their wing
which in its name itself is fundamental Any comments
[7 Dec, 2009 2315hrs IST]

joseph rodrigues,Goa,says:Lets be honest about this. Manmohan Singh is
a very honest and very capabale person and prime minister but nobody
can deny he is in his seat because of blind loyalty to Madam Sonia and
the Gandhi family. Its a disgrace that a contry of a billion people
cannot find more leaders like Manmohan singh and have to depend on
family connections to stay in power and what about Rahul Gandhi, what
does this guy know about national politics besides being born in the
Gandhi family
[7 Dec, 2009 2315hrs IST]

kris,canada,says:What else he could have answered? Any capable or a
shrude corrupt politician regardless of his or her race or religion
can become a prime minister, yes! I do agree that we had some
incapable primeminister in the past and we have already forgotten
their names.We take good with bad one.Muslim youth are busy with SIMI
activity and AMU is their head office. Where the good muslim leaders
are going to come from if their prime insitution like AMU is hiding
their head in the sand and play ignorent to this fact. Any well
educated good and true muslim can become a prime minister if is heart
and head is in right place and Abdul Kalam Azad, APJ are a few
examples.You can live in India and wave pakistani flag from the roof
top and murder people in the name of Islam and then expact to be a
prime minister is nothing but a foolish dream. We have some good
muslims leaders but they can not open their mouth bacause they will
have Fatava issued against them.
[7 Dec, 2009 2312hrs IST]

Puran Luthra,US,says:Dr. Manmohan Singh is a capable Prime Minister
but he is a NOMINATED Prime Minister by Mrs. Sonia gandhi. Even in the
second term he was not elected by the party MPs as. He is not the
elected Lok Sabha MP either which has been the convention since
Nehru's time that a prime minister should be a member of Lok Sabha. Is
not this a sorry state of affairs in India?
[7 Dec, 2009 2308hrs IST]

Ananda Kumara M.R,Bangalore,says:This is stupidity Mr Rahul. You young
blood you need to work a lot in this politics. You dont know how to
handle a question thrown by student. I wonder how would you lead a
country like India(as you are projected as future PM)..Indians are
secular atleast most of them...but you bloody politicians raise all
these comunal issue. My question to Mr Rahul what was the need to
raise this topic at this point of time, Babri Masjid Demoltion. Just
for VOTE BANK na..? Muslims are always with your PALM dont
worry....but dont try to stir the soceity communally by issuing this
kind of bloody statements for your gain. Media: Please stop projecting
these issues as a hot news for heaven's sake. After all these we
Indians still say Bharath Maatha ki Jai...!
[7 Dec, 2009 2302hrs IST]

dinesh,India,says:That is right, prior to that person should love
india, indian culture not from other senseless illutions.
[7 Dec, 2009 2245hrs IST]

roy,kolkata,says:NO..NEVER..MUSLIM NEVER B THE PM OF INDIA........LET
ALL MUSLIMS GO PAKISTAN..INDIA JUST FOR HINDUS.............RAHUL
TALKED LIKE STUPID !!
[7 Dec, 2009 2244hrs IST]

dinesh,India,says:That is right, prior to that person should love
india, indian culture not saudi culture.
[7 Dec, 2009 2243hrs IST]

raju,USA,says:There are actually two things. Capability and timing.
Either one or both should be on your side for taking the top slot.
Deve Gowda had time on his side.Otherwise how can a poor-farmer (worth
thousands of crores) like him become a PM. (Charan singh i dont know
how capable he was). Rajiv Gandhi was definitely capable and time was
also in his favor though he had no experience. For Manmohan he is
really capable but he had to get time in his side then only he could
become, because if Rahul would have been ready by that time, and BJP
would not opposed Sonia's elevation then she would have been the PM.
Current muslim leaders that i can think of in india only view muslims
as their votebank and think only for muslims. They need to think for
Indian welfare, not for Muslim welfare. Take for example the leaders
of MIM in Hyderabad. They behave more like goons and not like leaders.
Muslim leaders need to collectively think how to solve the problems of
poverty,illiteracy etc, but alas if they think on these lines then ppl
would no longer be ignorant and would question their deeds. I am no
fan of congress, because i consider it to be creator of major problems
for the country. But still Rahul is taking steps in right direction.
Hopefully he would not surround himself with the coterie of YES-SIR in
future else all these would go waste. (all the so called young MPs or
second generation MPs are always seen making beeline to him, bcos they
know he would be their boss in near future. This culture needs to stop
for the country to develop)
[7 Dec, 2009 2235hrs IST]

Shreya,NY,says:What is the big deal about a muslim prime minister? Did
we not have a muslim president? Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam is a muslim,
who held the most respectable and highest post in India, of a
president. Why publish some nonsense, media and the leaders should be
more responsible when they open their mouth because they influence the
way ordinary people think. Be accountable for what you speak and write
fellows!!
[7 Dec, 2009 2220hrs IST]

Johnny,Hyderabad,says:We must not forget that our first Education
minister was a hard line MUSLIM and his name is Moulana Abdul Kalam
Azad.
[7 Dec, 2009 2213hrs IST]

NCJ,MH,says:WHAT ABOUT CHRISTIANS, BUDDHISTS ETC MR RAHUL G.? DO YOU
THINK MUSLIMS ARE SO STUPID THAT THEY CANNOT SEE WHAT YOU MEAN!! SINCE
YOU ARE THE PM OF INDIA(NOT MMS), YOU MUST RESPECT ALL RELIGIONS.
EVERY COMMUNITY HAS IT'S SHARE OF COMPETENT PEOPLE. MUSLIMS ARE ALSO A
COMMUNITY AND THEY ARE SUFFICIENTLY INTELLIGENT TO EASILY SEE THROUGH
YOUR STUPID DESIGN TO GET VOTES WITHOUT WORKING LONG YEARS IN
POLITICS!!
[7 Dec, 2009 2213hrs IST]

Raj,London,says:Rahul's grandmother Indira Nehru married a muslim
Feroz Khan in abroad and informed to nehru over the phone. To fool the
Indians, nehru brought the couple to India and conducted a vedic
marriage by renaming Feroz khan as feroz gandhi, whereas feroz khan
has nothing to do with Gandhi at all; Please Note that vedic marriage
shldn't be done for feroz khan eventhough he renamed. Rahul gandhi
shld've been called as Rahul Khan and its more appropriate that he
says that a muslim can be a PM; Indians need to wakeup to throw the
non-Indians out of power and to get ruled only by Indians, who really
care abt our country rather than the Italian family group.
[7 Dec, 2009 2156hrs IST]

Mike,london,says:hi everybody i think this Gandhi family is here to
convert hindus to muslim because they are converted.how many hindus
are there in pakistan holding public position? pakistan is part of
india and i wonder instead of talking about that issues,Raul talking
rubbish.Gandhi family is responsible to devide india and i am sure
coming days are no good for hindus in india.Hindus are coward
everywhere and this is what they deserve. i am hindu my self.i dont
mean to get hurt anyone but history show that.Hindus can only work as
slave.they dont know how to be boss.thank you
[7 Dec, 2009 2153hrs IST]

Ben,Canada,says:I take strong opposition to this statement Mr. Gandhi.
I'm not even sure if you are even qualified on your own merits to make
this statement. (you are being entertained in politics and listened to
only because you belong to the Gandhi dynasty).Are you so narrow
minded to bring in Religion?. We live in the 21st Century and the
world is a Global Village. We do not differentiate based on caste,
creed or family. If anything does matter is your individual merit and
hard work. India needs to move ahead and we definitely don't need to
look back. Please stop this good for nothing talk. NOW.
[7 Dec, 2009 2145hrs IST]

NATIONALIST INDIAN,MH,says:SURE MR GANDHI, WHY NOT RESERVE PM'S POST
FOR OBCS AND MUSLIMS?? AN ABSOLUTE IDIOTIC STATEMENT MR GANDHI!! HOW
CAN WE ENTRUST YOU WITH INDIAN INTERESTS WHEN YOU MAKE SUCH IDIOTIC
STATEMENT!! YOU HAVE MADE THIS STATEMENT TO GET MUSLIM VOTES. INDIA
NEEDS POLITICIANS WHO SEEK VOTES FOR THEIR HARD WORK AND PERFORMANCE,
NOT THOSE LIKE YOU WHO SEEK VOTES BY FOOLING THE CITIZENS. HAVE YOU
EVER CONSIDERED HOE HAVE ALL THE NON- MUSLIMS IN PAKISTAN DISAPPEARED?
DID YOU WONDER WHY A CAPABLE HINDU WAS NOT GIVEN THE POST OF CHIEF
JUSTICE IN PAKISTAN?? ARE INDIANS THE ONLY ONES TO SHOW GOOD
BEHAVIOUR?? YOU HAVE CREATED LIBRAHAN REPORT TO CHEAT THE PEOPLE AND
NOW TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE FOOLS!!
[7 Dec, 2009 2145hrs IST]

NCJ,MH,says:Isn't it written in constitution of India?? Then Why Rahul
Gandhi has to say it?? If citizens of India can't see through this
open ploy then even God cannot help India. LIBRAHAN REPORT AND THEN
THIS STATEMENT, I DROP RAHUL GANDHI AS A CAPABLE POLITICIAN WHO CAN BE
ENTRUSTED WITH ANY RESPONSIBILITY OF NATIONAL IMPORTANCE. YET, I KNOW,
HE WILL BE ELECTED FOR PRIME MINISTER'S POST, THAT'S THE FATE INDIA
HAS!!
[7 Dec, 2009 2130hrs IST]

bala srinivasan,saginaw.mich.usa.,says:WE CANNOT&SHOULD NOT COMPARE
OUR COUNTRY TO EVEN EUROPEAN ONES WHO ARE INHERENTLY
BIASED&RACIAL.INDIA DID NOT INVADE,OCCUPY EVEN COERCIVELY ANY COUNTRY
IN THE WORLD EVER IN ITS HISTORY.YET ITS CULTURAL,PHILOSOPHICAL AND
VALUES HAVE NOT ONLY BEEN ADOPTED,ASSIMILATED&ACKNOWLEDGED FROM THE
ARABIAN PENINSULA,AFRICA IN THE WEST TO FAR REACHES OF CHINA&INDONESIA
IN THE EAST.THIS IS CALLED "SOFT POWER"OF INDIA WHICH HAS ENDURED MANY
MANY CENTURIES.WE ARE TREND SETTERS NEVER FOLLOWERS,ONLY LATELY DUE TO
BRITISH COERCIVENESS WE LOST OUR CONFIDENCE BUT AGAIN WITH IN HALF
CENTURY SINCE INDEPENDANCE WE ARE BACK ON TRACK.
[7 Dec, 2009 2124hrs IST]

bala srinivasan,saginaw.mich.usa.,says:ABOUT TIME THE FEDERAL /CENTRAL
GOVT OF INDIA EMBARKS ON AN INTENSE EDUCATIONAL DRIVE ACROSS INDIA
EMPHASISING THE MEANING OF "CONSTITUTIONAL SECULAR DEMOCRACY"AND THE
CONSEQUENCIAL SEPARATION OF "STATE FROM CHURCH". THEY SHOULD SHOW
SERIOUS COMMITMENT BY SUPREME COURT RULING THE ABOLISHION OF RELIGION
BASED RESTRICTIONS&RESERVATIONS BUT REPLACE IT WITH PURELY ECONOMIC
BASED ONE WHICH IS TRANSPARENT&VERIFYABLE BY INDEPENDANT NON GOVT
ORGS.WE SHOULD STOP AS LEADERS MAKING CONDESCENDING STATEMENTS.THE
PEOPLE OF REPUBLIC OF INDIA CAN ELECT ANY ONE THEY,{NOONE ELSE}DEEM
FIT TO LEAD THEM&THEIR COUNTRY.CASTE,COLOR,CREED OR RELIGION HAVE
ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING, PERIOD.
[7 Dec, 2009 2108hrs IST]

Haroon,AMU,Aligarh,says:What rahul should have said then when the
question posed to him was can a muslim be a PM of India.that was a
fine answer anybody can give.He wanted to say only that any body from
any religion could be PM if he is capable,and religion is not a
problem.what else he can say on this question.
[7 Dec, 2009 2108hrs IST]

Sharad,US,says:I am confident that if we get a muslim PM, he will
deliver the goods and also be able to take great decisions for the
country. I doubt if Pakistan will ever even remotely think of a
possibility of a minority community person to hold the top job. This
can only happen in a Hindu majority state, and I am proud of the fact
that we are liberal not just in word, but in spirit and the Hindu way
of life is an all inclusive way of life. We just need to get rid of
some old idiotic prathas. Our way of thinking and taking life as a
whole is the most modern.
[7 Dec, 2009 2106hrs IST]

Shikayat,Local,says:Many muslims have held many positions in India and
India government. The quesion this R-ULU should be asking is whether
any Hindu can become a Saudi King, or the head of any muslim country
or state.
[7 Dec, 2009 2103hrs IST]

Chandrashekhar,Karnataka,says:Yes i do agree with Rahul Gandhi that a
muslim can be a prime mininster.Mrs Indira Gandhi wed one muslim and
changed her religion to Islam to marry him Mr. Feroz Khan(changed to
Gandhi in UK).Then there is Sanjay Gandhi Born of a father who is
Muslim (NOT FEROZ Khan-Gandhi) .Ask Rahul(RAUL Italian name) Gandhi
What is his religion? or that of his sister {Bianca(italian)
=Priyanka}? what was his fathers religion at the time he married
Sonia.What is his mothers religion as on today? What the .... is he
talking about and to whom.The mass of INDIA is illterate and will
remain so in the domain of CONGRESS.The media of India is owned by
whom???Who controls the media???Can some one give this answers,
PLEASE.MAY GOD SAVE BHARAT MATA! JAI HIND.(SOMEONE WISER THAN ME
PLEASE COMMENT OR CORRECT ME.)
[7 Dec, 2009 2058hrs IST]

Samar Mukherjee,Edison NJ USA,says:It is high time we refrain from
identifying an Indian by it's religion,when other community people are
not referred to by their religion even after 50 years. I am a staunch
believer in Hindu doctrine, but feel let down and shattered when some
one is called Muslim in this country, in same wave length. We had
moulana Abdul kalam azad, fakhruddin Ali Ahmed and last but not the
least who has made INDIA proud,APJ Kalam. Rahul,s comment is
obnoxious.
[7 Dec, 2009 2049hrs IST]

Naveed,India,says:I'm not sure how much competent were Deve Gowda,
Charan Singh, and Rajiv Gandhi for that matter.
[7 Dec, 2009 2048hrs IST]

jotendra,India,says:The great secular government and political party
the congress party a favorite of the private secular Indian press did
not want TO GIVE A SECOND TERM OF PRESIDENCY TO CAPABLE AND EDUCATED
AND SECULAR INDIAN FIRST AND MUSLIM NEXT DR. ABDUL KALAM. They talk of
1ST RIGHT TO MUSLIMS FOR INDIA'S RESOURCES AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO
GIVE A SECOND TERM AND THIRD TERM TO THE BEST INDIAN IN DR. ABDUL
KALAM WHO IS AN INDIAN FIRST AN MUSLIM NEXT. DR. ABDUL KALAM HAD A
VISION FOR THE COUNTRY. HE IS NOBLE, HE IS TRUTHFUL, HE IS POSITIVE,
HE IS SECULAR, HE STUDIED ALL RELIGIONS, HE IS INSPIRATIONAL, HE IS
KNOWS WHAT IS GOOD FOR COUNTRY. But our great secular party the
congress party which shouts on roof tops of their secularism and the
great private Indian press which glorifies the congress party did not
have the gumption to ask the congress WHY THEY DO NOT WANT A GOOD
INDIAN MUSLIM TO GET THE SECOND TERM AS PRESIDENCY. The SANGH PARIVAR
SUPPORTED DR. ABDUL KALAM FOR PRESIDENT THE FIRST TIME AND FOR THE
SECOND TIME. THE WHOLE INDIA WANTED DR. ABDUL KALAM AS THE PRESIDENT
FOR THE SECOND TIME. It is only the PSEUDO SECULAR CONGRESS PARTY DID
NOT WANT A GOOD INDIAN MUSLIM TO GET THE PRESIDENCY FOR THE SECOND
TIME. Today the GREAT AND RESPECTED YOUTH LEADER IN RAHUL GANDHI
MINTOS THAT IF MUSLIM IS COMPETENT HE CAN BECOME TEH PRIME MINISTER.
HE HAS FORGOTTEN THAT HIS PARTY DID NOT WANT AN IMMENSELY CAPABLE
INDIAN MUSLIM TO GET THE SECOND TERMS AS PRESIDENT. To the press, they
only know how to shout on roof tops HINDU TERROR and nothing else. The
press itself is highly biased. jai Hind. sarve janaha sukino bavantu.
[7 Dec, 2009 2040hrs IST]

Abdul Rahim,Jeddah Saudi Arabia,says:Its very nice to hear that from
Mr.Rahul Gandhi. But the term Capable needs a strong explanation. Yes
he is right in telling that Muslims lack of strong political leaders.
Above all we should not see the post of Prime minister or President
with religious or gender difference. We need good leaders to drove our
country in a right path.
[7 Dec, 2009 2015hrs IST]

Pavan,Hyd,says:Hi, Did Rahul say "Muslim can bacome a PM if
Capable..." OR "Any one irrespective of Religion can become PM if
capable"? As I read the article, I understood Rahul said the Later,
but the TOI phrased it as "Muslim ..." which is miss leading and again
a stunt to add masala. This shows the indiscipline in the media
reporting the news as it is. Media should be more responsible and
Disciplined. Media should not try to add masala to what people/leaders
say for their Benifit. Comming to what Rahul said..Its perfectly
correct...Any one who is capable can become PM of this country
irrespective of religion.
[7 Dec, 2009 2009hrs IST]

Mangal Pandey,Sydney,says:Only extremist muslims have such problems.
And as a matter of fact we have already had a muslim president. I dont
understand why this insecurity. How about a hindu PM in Pakistan.
[7 Dec, 2009 2006hrs IST]

jay verma,helsinki,says:Mr Rahul Gandhi, the Prime Minister in
waiting, is correct. His own family had been Hindus, Muslims and
Christians- all in one. So if he says Muslim, he is not saying
something new. He does not want an Indian as the Prime Minister, but
just Muslim- from Pakistan or Italy, it does not matter. Wondering
where was he when Congress or say Mrs Gandhi did not support our
former President,Sri A.P.J Abdul Kalam, for second term. Perhaps
choosing him again would not brought him more Muslims votes. And yes,
why not a Hindu Chief Minister for his great-grand fatherÂ´s home
state, Jammu and Kashmir ?
[7 Dec, 2009 2006hrs IST]

CoolKA,chennai,says:Well, we had Dr.Abdul Kalam as our President for 1
awesome term. We could fantasise him as our PM !! India will have the
best PM ever and in eons to come. We are blessed to have had Dr.Kalam
for the top job. Did it matter him being a Muslim? He considers
himself a patriotic Indian.
[7 Dec, 2009 2000hrs IST]

Ramesh,singapore ,says:According to a recent survey in Pakistan - most
Pakistani regard them selves 1st Musilms & then Pakistani I dont there
is much difference in India - A Muslim PM has to think as an Indian
1st then as Muslim - Ex President is one such person It will not easy
to find many like him
[7 Dec, 2009 1956hrs IST]

vkguptan,Bangalore,says:Thirty nine year old Rahul Gandhi could have
told the students that anyone capable to hold that post can be a PM.
And under his breath he could have told that anyone whom my mom
approves can be a PM or President.
[7 Dec, 2009 1948hrs IST]

Rajdeep,India,says:These are totally political words for the vote
bank, Sonia Gandhi is very clever she made ManMohan Singh PM just to
get Sikh people's vote, which they never used to get. I guess everyone
knows who is driving the govt in India, ManMohan Singh or Sonia G
[7 Dec, 2009 1944hrs IST]

kumar ,Chennai,says:Yes Rahul means their should be no caste or
religion considered to elect a PM,but people thinks the other way, Be
one no caste or religion how long it will take to unite ourself kuch
to sudro yar
[7 Dec, 2009 1936hrs IST]

Rohit,Delhi,says:Then they will ask how much time will it take India
to become a Muslim majority nation. On one hand europens have taken
lessons from history and they want to restrict the exponential growth
of Muslims to save them from Islamiation and on the other our so-
caleed leader is saying we can have Muslim PM. Thats why we are
enslaved again and again because we haven't taken lessons from our
history. Read these:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negationism_in_India_-_Concealing_the_Record_of_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_in_the_Indian_subcontinent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus
[7 Dec, 2009 1933hrs IST]

Shashi Yadav,Saudi Arabia,says:Rahul Gandhi knows the art to attract
the young generation.He might be genuine in his thinking about Muslim
PM.But the saddest part is that now,congress wants puppet, be it PM or
President of the country. They are so weak and fragile to look
at.There seems to be no daring spirit in both of them.They look more
like a statue which works on remote control.Expressionless faces.One
cannot make out any difference,when they are happy or sad.Some change
of expression is definitely warranted.Rahul should know the ground
reality and then make promises left right.He has the vision it seems,
but he has to really come up with drastic change in policies if he is
little serious about uplifting the society and the nation.He should
concentrate on Hindus as well.He should keep in mind that he cannot
afford to neglect the major community.He is too young to understand
the real politics,which brews inside the party.He has a long way to go
and understand the minor details to remain in power.His position is
very safe for the future,he knows it very well.Now he is just playing
games with the youth of the country to gain votes for the
party.Nothing beyond this.If he is serious at all,then he should
prepare right candidates to fight the elections.Young and energetic
people with a wider vision,leaving caste and community aside.Then only
I will take his work and words seriously.
[7 Dec, 2009 1931hrs IST]

kamlesh,mumbai,says:MR. RAHUL GANDHI THANK U FOR YOUR SUGGESTION, KEEP
THESE SUGGESTION WITH U ONLY, FRIST OF ALL I THINK YOU ARE WEAK IN
HISTORY, IN A COUNTRY LIKE INDIA WHERE 81% POPULATION ARE HINDUS, WE
HAD ALREADY GIVEN A GREAT JOB OF PRESIDENCY TO DR. A.P.J.ABDUL KALAM,
SO THERE IS NO QUESTION ARISES FOR MUSLIM TO THINK ABOUT INDIA P.M.,
1ST SHOW ME ANY COUNTRY OF MUSLIM'S WHERE ANY HINDU IS A PRESIDENT OR
PRIME MINSTER OF THAT COUNTRY, AND MIND THIS THING THE DAY INDIA GOT A
MUSLIM PRIME MINISTER INDIA WILL BECOME AFGHANISTAN.
[7 Dec, 2009 1925hrs IST]

sen,delhi,says:another instance when talking about muslims is secular
but anything said about hindus is communal. i, as some other people
here, would like to ask this guy whether a hindu can become CM of a
muslim majority J/K? We have already had a muslim president (who was
let go by no other than this guys party). what more need we to prove
to the muslim that we are secular. do the muslims pay us back on the
same coin? no. they want to tear away j/K. they denounce vande
mataram. they burn trains carrying sadhus. they threw away the pandits
from kashmir. and we have not forgotten the numerous blasts carried
out by them killing thousands. how can they still expect to be treated
like equals if not more. sorry. we are at the end of our patience. the
congress will see a huge downfall if they continue this.
[7 Dec, 2009 1925hrs IST]

whiz,Pune,says:enough is enough....you asked a question...he answered.
Negative comments are that...negative...and stupid. Positive opinions
are simply accepting a fact. To interpret it as advert is being
foolish. Would any other National Party say the same ? Are they ready
top announce the same ? Thanks.
[7 Dec, 2009 1924hrs IST]

Ro,London,says:Rahul said "if they are capable". Does that mean if we
had a muslim PM, they would be capable of protecting India from
Pakistan, Kasmiri Militants or the Taliban? Will India still remain a
multi religion country? Ask yourself this question if we had a muslim
leader which was put under such pressure to protect India from Muslim
Militants
[7 Dec, 2009 1914hrs IST]

Archana ,Mangalore,says:Of course Muslim can become if he is capable &
competent. Only Rahul Gandhi can become PM even if he is incapable &
incompetent. This is a no-brainer, true to the sms joke doing the
rounds "Rahul Gandhi is a Genius". That itself is the joke- his dim IQ
[7 Dec, 2009 1909hrs IST]

sushil verma,usa,says:..."39 year old Gandhi said" These words in the
news followed in TOI following a statement made by Rahul Gandhi. What
as the journalistic need to mention his age? Do you mention after
every statement the PM makes or any other leader makes. This is
indicative of bias on the part of TOI.
[7 Dec, 2009 1905hrs IST]

ISMAIL K PERINJE,YANBU-SAUDI ARABIA,says:MR PNV Krishanan well said!
INDIA is not a theoritic,communist,monopolistic un democratic
country.India is a secular and largest "LIVING" democratic,republic
country in the world.Unity in diversity is a beauty of Indian
democracy.As far as Mr Rahul concerned,it may be a dream for muslims
to have a Muslim Prime Minister of India.But still as muslims we are
in need of opportinities in education,civil services,finacial
stimulous pakages Etc.Perhaps if we able to get priority in education,
(also if muslims thinks education is a key factor for their forwardnes)
the opportuniy for PM for Muslims will be certainly on default.MR
Rahul's comment on in this issue is nothing but" presence of mind and
politicaly motivated.
[7 Dec, 2009 1904hrs IST]

Manubhai,Kolkata,says:No. A Muslim cannot and should not become a PM
of India. This is intolerable.
[7 Dec, 2009 1901hrs IST]

Mohammad,Akram,says:I also want to become the politician when i see
old freedom fighter like Gandhiji, Shubash chandra Bose etc i also got
a feeling to do something for the development of the country but now
after seeing the situation of the politician in India i drop my idea
because according to my view if u are qualified in following u have
the chance to become the politician: (i) U should be corrupt. (ii)U
have the capability of telling alie and take advantage of the people's
emotion (iii) U should be good in speech to do riots and killing of
people for the sake of u'r benefit. But few people are still very good
person as a politician like Mr Manmohan singh, Mr Rahul Gandhi etc but
they have the family but i don't have any in politics if Mr. Rahul
Gandhi is adding people in their list so please add my name also
because i love to do something for my country and want to make INDIA
Bright and more powerful. I LOve INDIAN
[7 Dec, 2009 1900hrs IST]

Abdul Jabbar,Riyadh,says:People take very interest in commenting on a
news or article where the title includes 'Muslims', i know a person
enjoying a great position (job) in muslim worls (Saudi Arabia -
Riyadh) and commenting here everythng against muslims,
[7 Dec, 2009 1859hrs IST]

Mona Sharma,monas...@hotmail.com,says:If congress remains capable
enough then muslims will be definitely PM of India. And there would be
thousands of pakistan created in no time.
[7 Dec, 2009 1855hrs IST]

Meenu,UK,says:WILL A HINDU BE A PM OF AN MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRY OR
BETTER STILL OF PAKSITAN, EVEN PAKSTIAN DOES NOT HAVE A CM IN THEIR
COUNTRY, WHO IS AN HINDU.....SO WHO THE HELL IS RAUHAL TO MAKE SUCH A
STATEMENT OR IS THIS A POLICTIAL STUNT LIKE CONGRESS ALWAYS DOES.
MAYBE AS HE IS A CHRISTEN HE HAS NO FEELINGS FOR HINDUS AT ALL IN
INDIA.
[7 Dec, 2009 1854hrs IST]

syed zameer,uae,says:i really appriciate Rahul Gandhi that he made
that comment but its not just saying, he has to do something what he
is saying, i'm a muslim and im proud to be an indian, above this every
politicians has to know that we are all indians and politicians /
leaders divide us only for the sake of money & power.
[7 Dec, 2009 1841hrs IST]

syed zameer,uae,says:i really appreciate Rahul Gandhi that he made
that comment but its not just saying, he has to do something what he
is saying, i'm a muslim and im proud to be an Indian, above this every
politicians has to know that we are all Indians and politicians /
leaders divide us only for the sake of money & power.
[7 Dec, 2009 1841hrs IST]

V.R.Das,Dubai,says:What hypocrisy!! Rahul Gandhi himself is proof that
capability is not the over riding quality to be PM of India. I will
hasten to add that he has shown much more sense than most of the
current jokers in Indian politics. But the fact remains Rahul Gandhi
entered active politics only 3 to 5 years ago and the slavish congress
leaders have already accepted him as the next PM . Why? because he is
the son of Sonia Gandhi!! Are we a democratic country? An Obama has to
spend many years in active politics participating in debates etc in
colleges making clear his stands on major issues before he is even
considered for the top post. Does any body know Rahul Gandhi's
position on key issues except that it will be the predictable vote
bank politics. Why the Aligarh University students are particular
about a Muslim becoming a PM? If Rahul Gandhi was truly secular he
should have used the opportunity to change their mind set!!
[7 Dec, 2009 1841hrs IST]

ssmoorthy,carmel usa,says:Mr. Rahul Gandhi is absolutely right.The
constitution has to be followed correctly who ever is the prime
minister.Ideals can be stated but constitution should be instituted
and the law followed.There should be time limits for the posts of the
prime minister and chief minister and president.If a prime minister
cannot bring positive changes in two terms(10 Years) what can he
change in the third term?New leaders have to be given a chance.At
present ,except the present prime minister, almost all chief ministers
are corrupt multi-crorepathies.The best brains should be cabinet
secretaries and supreme court justices.
[7 Dec, 2009 1839hrs IST]

Vats,Delhi,says:Nehru-Gandhi family has some of the most capable
people born in India; three have already adorned the PM's chair, and
the fourth the-most-capable, is on the way. Anyway, to be the PM, a
Muslim has to be atleast as capable as the Gandhies :D
[7 Dec, 2009 1833hrs IST]

Indian,central indian,says:What a biased irresponsible statement from
a congress leader. Does he mean that the problem that a muslim have
not become a Prime Minister is because they are not eligible. I do not
thing the muslims will get offended by this statement since all these
years the muslim political leaders are just the slaves of the Congress
party. The Congress party is riding high only on glamour factors. None
of their leaders from Nehru to Indira to Rahul have contributed any
thing reasonable for the uplift of the downtrodden. What contribution
has the Congress done to eradicate the shariat laws which restricts
the rationality of the muslms. the prime minister of india should be
secular and not communal. Rahul's comments will only boomerang soon.
[7 Dec, 2009 1830hrs IST]

Raj,Muscat,says:He should have rather said "If we leave him capable
enough"
[7 Dec, 2009 1830hrs IST]

Amin Sayani,Chennai,says:We dont need Rahul's approval. We already
have had Muslim President and insha allah will have PMs also but stop
making politics on the issue.
[7 Dec, 2009 1822hrs IST]

P N V Krishnan,pune,says:It now seems that the next great scrifice may
be coming from Rahul himself. He may nominate a capable Muslim leader
as the next prime minister if the congress gets the required
numbers.Any Muslim leader qualifying for the post. May be the Nehrus
(Gandhis) are going to rectify the mistake done by the Great Mahatma
to Mr Jinnah.
[7 Dec, 2009 1818hrs IST]

Raj,Chennai,says:A muslim is welcome to become the prime minister of
hindu-majority (81%) India. All I would want to know from Rahul Gandhi
is that, whether a hindu can become the chief minister of muslim-
majority (67%) Jammu & Kashmir ?
[7 Dec, 2009 1817hrs IST]

Siva,Bangalore,says:Shall we start politics? What a statement? Does he
mean some people are not capable still :-). Then what religion PM does
our neighbourhood country has?
[7 Dec, 2009 1813hrs IST]

prafull,Mumbai,says:I totally agree with Rahul Gandhi,who has Sonia,s
assent to speak on behalf of her.Sonia should encourage a Muslim Prime
Minister to be elected in Italy. How far these cheap stakes will go to
appease the 400 million minority is unbelievable.Hindustan ruled by an
Italian Christian and now they want us to have a Muslim Prime
Minister.I am sure BSP and SP will curse themselves for not having
come up with this master stroke first.Cowardly and subservient Hindus
wake up and smell the religion politics by Congress,BSP and SP.Mr.
Editor do not forget about freedom of speech and do post my comments.
[7 Dec, 2009 1811hrs IST]

raj,Mumbai,says:Dear Mr Rahul,In Pak, Hindu is still not part of
cricket game and you know the result where ever muslim are the
politicians or in lead role. You already have millions of muslim votes
and hence this statement was immaterial , instead you will loose vote
from hindus next time. Shiv sena should learn politics from Congress
and should think as wide as possible rather concentrating/limiting to
Maharashtra.
[7 Dec, 2009 1809hrs IST]

Jagat,London,says:Why should a Muslim have to be competent to become
PM when all the Hindus who became PM were not competent? This is
discrimination!!
[7 Dec, 2009 1757hrs IST]

vivek,India,says:Hypocritical comment. Out of 55 years of congress
rule, Gandhi family has ruled for 50 years. The fact is they have
killed capable leadership within congress for the last 50 years. And
what a double talk. They were even giving the PM post to Sonia. Talk
about capability. What a joke of a statement. And media does not
question. Looks like media has developed paralysis or alzhemier's. Why
was he not questioned that his lip statement and actual history of
congress is clear contradictory?
[7 Dec, 2009 1749hrs IST]

Desi,US,says:Of course, any capable Indian should be able to make PM.
In fact, Indians are willing to chose non-Indian as well.
[7 Dec, 2009 1746hrs IST]

santhosh,dubai,says:Any layman can tell this thing, but when Rahul
tells it is coming in the frontpage. At what capacity he is telling
all these, since he belongs to one dynasty. if he is out of that
dynasty what will be his role now. What will be his capabilities, who
will listen him, who will write about him. It is not capabilities or
skill measures in this Congress party politics. Why Congress party
with the support of media always projecting only this Gentleman. There
are lots of capable persons in this Congress, whether Congress will
think of making them Prime Minister. Even if, nobody want him, media
and the leaders of their party will make him all. Pity you all
Indians.
[7 Dec, 2009 1745hrs IST]

SHOUKAT FIRFIRAY,KUWAIT,says:While I give my high regard to young
politician's commentery for not just favouring muslims but in general
it stands for all communities. Hope Shri Rahul Gandhi misundertood
that there is no muslim candidate available in the country for PM job.
He may find capable candidate from his muslim surrounding friends
itself better and able person to decorate as PM. However, Shri Rahul
Gandhi shouldn't underestimate muslim community who are second largest
population in the world living in India.
[7 Dec, 2009 1741hrs IST]

MH Syed,Ahmedabad,says:Mr. Rahul Gandhi is absolutly right.Who know
that Mr.Manmohan singh would be PM ? Accordingly any Indian citizen
can be PM.We should not consider his or her cast,religion and region
but should his cometency to be PM.If a black can be a President of US,
why not a muslim can not be a PM of India ?
[7 Dec, 2009 1735hrs IST]

vijay lakhani,hong kong,says:if a muslim can be president, suerly he
can be prime meinster, who is this ignorant asking such
questions...dont try to get political mileage with such low grade
politics, india was, is and will be all inclusive. before making such
comment and trying to take advantage go and study your history. india
was never biased at any point of time in history towards any cast,
community, creed or religion, its people like this who try to
differntiate people to achieve their goal that has divided india, read
the religious text of your ancestors if they were hindus....no person
is higher or lower by birth the karma of a person decides whether he
is a brahmin , kshatriya, vaishya, shudra. but people like this have
alway intrepreted wrongly (represented wrongly)for their own
benefi..... just to keep the muslim vote bank you say such
words....who has ever denied a muslim to be a PM where he can be
president. rise above this dirty politics and do something good for
the country and if you cant do this atleast keep you mouth shut.
[7 Dec, 2009 1732hrs IST]

Dinesh Kamath,Mumbai,says:Who is Rahul to say that Muslim can become
PM. Is it not Rahul playing vote bank politics? He could have said any
Indian can become PM, why selectively Muslim. Ofcourse, in India even
Italian can become PM
[7 Dec, 2009 1729hrs IST]

jay verma,helsinki,says:Dear Mr Rahul Gandhi, It is nice to hear that
you agree that Muslims too can be the Prime Minister of India. So what
is new in this ? India has and had Muslims as the President or the
Vice President of India. Why do you actually need to add Muslims in
this ? Dont you think that without mentioning Indians by their castes,
you could have just said that any Indian could become Prime Minister.
Do you have to go so down that for votes you would mention Muslims,
not any Indian ?
[7 Dec, 2009 1729hrs IST]

ISYED YUSUF FARHAN,JINJA, UGANDA,says:As an alumnus,I would like to
thank Rahul Gandhi to encourage young muslims to join politics while
visiting Aligarh Muslim University. Let him include some young muslims
on his team of young congressmen and train them to get a "MUSLIM"
Prime Minister in future amongst those.
[7 Dec, 2009 1717hrs IST]

PM Rao,Dubai,says:Let us be honest in understanding how President,
Vice President and Speaker, PM and CM are selected in this country!
More often than not, it is because of some other consideration than
the real capability. If Rahul Gandhi is unaware of this simple fact,
either he is too naive or he is a hypocrite.
[7 Dec, 2009 1717hrs IST]

Sanjiv,Vizag,says:Rahul Gandhi makes a statement of fact that anyone
who has gone to school knows that religion plays no part in the
selection of a prime minister and it is news? The Congress should pay
for this advertisement. As far as being capable, one only has to look
at his father to know that there is no requirement for that.
[7 Dec, 2009 1705hrs IST]

bharat,chennai,says:It is the worst one can expect to happen
[7 Dec, 2009 1655hrs IST]

jotendra,India,says:The so called the most secular party of India, the
CONGRESS PARTY did not want to give chance to Dr. Abdul Kalam to
become president of India a second time becuase he was a CAPABLE AND
GOOD MUSLIM who wanted welfare of everyone in the country and was NOT
BIASED to anyone. The great secualar party the congress party which
the SECUALAR PRIVATE INDIAN PRESS glorify adn support did not have the
gumption to ask the congress why arent you making a good Indian the
president once again. The SECUALAR PRESS OF INDIA AND THE SECULAR
POLITICIANS AND POLITICAL PARTIES shed crocodile tears in the name of
minorities. If they had the gumption, they would have made Dr. Abdul
Kalam the president for second term and IMPLEMENTED ALL HIS THOUGHTS
AND MADE INDIA GOOD COUNTRY WITH RESPONSIBLE AND WELL BEHAVED CITIZENS
UNDERSTAND. They did not want a President who was just, truthful,
secular, respectful, knew how to solve the peoples problems, was
knowledgeble, was a good scientist, was working towards a better
country and better world irrespective of the religions becuase he did
not beleive in minorities or majorities. He wanted Indians to become
SENSIBLE CITIZENS UNDERSTAND. Shame to the so called SECULAR PRIVATE
PRESS AND SECULAR POLITICAL PARTIES who did not want a GOOD MUSLIM DR.
ABDUL KALAM THE PRESIDENT ONCE AGAIN. They stand exposed and are only
PSEUDO SECULARISTS and are worse than SANGH PARIVAR as they have
secret NEFARIOUS THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS which are behind the vote bank
veil. Jai Hind. Sarve janaha sukino bavantu.
[7 Dec, 2009 1655hrs IST]

K Rajesh Kumar,Chennai,says:Yes a muslim can become a PM here. Can any
Hindu become a PM in any of the muslim country. We are too broad
minded and over a period of time Hindus can be seen only in our
history books. I request the international community to work towards
democracy and wipe out religious bias and fanaticm in the minds of all
muslim countries. Let a Christian or Hindu become a PM in a muslim
country. That day is the real democracy and the world will live in
peace. For your information a lovable muslim has already become the
President of our country.
[7 Dec, 2009 1653hrs IST]

Gauatham,Bangalore,says:Wat that mean ?? Any Indian Can become PM of
India . No need for Rahul Ghandhis Approval .
[7 Dec, 2009 1649hrs IST]

sanjay singh,lucknow,says:we used to have a muslim president,perhaps
that will be sufficient to favour rahul ji.its only capability to run
the country that matters.we are still secular republic state.
[7 Dec, 2009 1645hrs IST]

Anand,Mumbai,says:Wooing a particular group of society has always been
a agenda of congress. If a Hindu talks about Hindu then he becomes
communal, but if a Muslim talks about only Muslim society then also he
is secular. Thats the wall which we need to brake. Why not we talk's
only as a Human first. Are Muslims having different problems than
Hindus, Christian's or Shikh? In the biggest democracy of India are
not we having equal opportunity? Till the time we will keep on wooing
a particular group we won't be able to achieve the status we always
dreamed of. Be a Human first.
[7 Dec, 2009 1644hrs IST]

Ghulam Moinuddin,UAE,says:Great to here about the views of rahul
gandhi,this will give a strong message to all muslim brothers and we
also have to afford more & more to to lead india in the path of
progress and can make India a developed country.
[7 Dec, 2009 1604hrs IST]

Abraham Philip,Kuwait,says:It is exactly the right comment from
congress icon and young veteran. If individuals fron various
communities with same attitude and thinking joins in politics we can
expect a major polital reform and a fast development of our
motherland.
[7 Dec, 2009 1554hrs IST]

M. Parwez Shams,Katihar, Bihar (India),says:In democracy heads are
counted not weighted
[7 Dec, 2009 1549hrs IST]

Pradeep M Bangali,Mumbai,says:What Rahul said was absolutely true.This
should also apply for top posts in Indian government jobs. For key
posts such as Income tax commssioner, Sales tax commissioner, I.G in
police, the candidate should be capable of handling job having
brilliant accademic qualification and over all a vision to erradicate
corruption and not alloted by quota. Pradeep
[7 Dec, 2009 1547hrs IST]

Sant2020,Delhi,says:All other things well said Rahul....but why pay
tributes to Sir Syed Ahmed Khan who laid the seeds of separete Muslim
state /nation. Just for few Muslim Votes.!!!!
[7 Dec, 2009 1545hrs IST]

A S CHAUHAN,USA,says:Rahul Gandhi : Yes,a Muslim can become the PM of
India ,only if one is capable ! Well , the most immediate question
springs up here,naturally: Is Rahul Gandhi the King Maker & the last
word in the Congress /UPA combine to declare & make such a statement ?
Why do we hold elections then ,at all ? Is it not the right of the
elected Members of the Parliament to elect/choose the future PM of
India : be it a Muslim ,a Hindu ,a Christian or yet a 3rd time PM Mr
MMS ? And is Mr Rahul that sure that the Congress or its commune shall
be victorious,yet a third time ,at a stretch ? The chosen diction of
Mr Rahul definitely needs better polishing & a little more thoughtful
while answering questions of such great importance having far reaching
consequences too .Let ,therefore , better wisdom prevail for befitting
responses while responding to tricky questions of such nature . We had
a number of Muslim Presidents / vice Presidents alright ,previously !
Across the border; does anyone in India , especially amongst the
Muslim brothren ,even distantly think of a Hindu /Sikh/Christian
becoming PM or President ? Agreed ,we are a democratic nation & across
the border it is not so . The questioner ought not to have raised such
a question at all in the first place . Such like questions do not fit
in squarely over here under the present circumstances ;serve little
purpose too : seemingly more of hypothetical in nature . By raising
such a question itself smacks of 'not - that - good' intentions of the
questioner by itself .
[7 Dec, 2009 1540hrs IST]

K.Suresh,Bengaluru,says:"Today, Manmohan Singh is not the Prime
Minister of India because he is a Sikh. He is the Prime Minister
because he is the most capable person to do the job.". "...Sikhs are a
very small percentage of this country." "You need to step up and the
number of leaders coming out of your community needs to go up." Well,
for one thing, MMS was NOT elected by the people but appointed by
Sonia Gandhi. i.e., Sonia Gandhi thought that he was the most capable
from amoung over-a-billion people. If MMS, from a minority Sikh
community, could become PM, why then is the condition that muslims
must throw up greater number of leaders than at present ?
[7 Dec, 2009 1536hrs IST]

Anil,Mumbai,says:What is capability?
[7 Dec, 2009 1535hrs IST]

Indian,Saudi Arabia,says:Why the muslims of india want everything
based on caste not on merits..? This give chance to political parties
to exploit them. Make the community educated to get the things on
merit. Anyway,india is a secular country it doesnot mean that muslims
should get benefitted on the basis of their religion.
[7 Dec, 2009 1520hrs IST]

Tk,Kolkata,says:I do not understand the point he is trying to make.
What's so big or unique about this. We have alreay a Muslim president,
sikh President, a Sikh PM. No one really thinks about in religeous
term. I think it's just a PR excercise
[7 Dec, 2009 1518hrs IST]

Dr Tarashankar Rudra,Australia,says:Dear Sir/Madam, I take this
opportunity to say that Sikh as Christians are the most loyal citizens
of India and constitute the bulk in OUR armed forces. Both religions
are part of sanatan dharma - one born in Pakistan and the other in
Israel. Due to the suspicious, anti national activities of Muslims,
majority of Indians cannot trust a political leader from that
community as a Minister - Prime Minister is out of question.
[7 Dec, 2009 1513hrs IST]

s k senapati,Kuwait,says:Rahul is absolutely right. Whenever we have a
Muslim Prime Minister, he will be so because of his capability, not
because he is a Muslim. Remember, we had Muslim as head of IAF, Parsi
as head of Army,so on so on, because of their ability not because of
their religious background. Let us not raise such cheap and petty
matters in an Acadamic institute of repute.
[7 Dec, 2009 1513hrs IST]

Durga Prasad Pattanaik,Maldives,says:Mr Rahul Gandhi is becoming a
matured politician day by day. Look at his wordings its very well
throught and matured. However, in reality its not true that in general
talent is getting honoured in this country.For example 1)Reservation
in Jobs 2) Selection of countries Ministers 3) Distribution of tickets
in Countries elections Every where by law or by convention, we play
cast or religious politics. Its true, we have to live with this. I
hope within 30-40 years we can get rid of these discremination Thanks
and regards Durga Prasad Pattanaik
[7 Dec, 2009 1508hrs IST]

Raj,India,says:Very well said Rahul ji.I am sure,as your "discovery"
would have told you,After all this wasnt this the reason partition
took place Sir?
[7 Dec, 2009 1503hrs IST]

A Venkatakrishnan,PUNE,says:It should not be forgotten that Dr. Zakir
Hussain and Fakruddin Ali Ahmed who belonged to Muslim community, were
the past Presidents of this country. India is appreciating the values
of capable persons/scholars, who are deserving given the right place
in the democracy.
[7 Dec, 2009 1500hrs IST]

luhar sen,India,says:Well said, Rahul. It's high time we put an end to
caste / religious bigotry and take India ahead. And this applies as
much to Hindus as to Muslims, or any other religious denomination. We
should constantly ask ourselves what kind of values we are leaving
behind for the future generations.
[7 Dec, 2009 1500hrs IST]

ABIR ,GUHA,says:DEAR RAHUL ...HATS OF TO YOU ...FOR YOUR COMENTS
[7 Dec, 2009 1449hrs IST]

sri,india,says:Leadership in democracy and election is a matter of
policy and support from people. A capable person never becomes a
leader. A person with support is elected. Only kins of great leaders
with silverspoon get leadership inherited. Our political leaders don't
know to make a speech without invoking religion.The speech leaves
questions like what about Christians, budhists, jains, jews. other
religious personalities and atheists.
[7 Dec, 2009 1434hrs IST]

dhananjay,bangalore,says:Well said Rahul Muslim political activism is
limited some hard liners. Educated moderate Muslims should come
forward and join main stream parties like Congress and BJP in large
numbers - people who believe that there is only one God and all
religions are nothing but paths shown by wise people to masses to
attain salvation. They should not join parochial parties like MIM,
IUML, etc. In fact, parties like MIM and IUML should die a natural
death. I will be very happy to see 10% plus representatives in Lok
Sabha during the next elections.
[7 Dec, 2009 1426hrs IST]

shafat lone,srinagar,says:why not, when the country could not find a
single capable person to head its R&AW or the IB or the MI or a
director generalof military operations or just an Army Chief. A
powerless man was made an Air Chief or a muslim president only because
he could play the veena and knew Gayatri mantra. Stop this sham, for,
muslims know the writing on the wall. you need to be more hindu than
hindus themselves to reach the top echelons of power,for muslims never
were nor ever shall be trusted by the sanatanis
[7 Dec, 2009 1426hrs IST]

A.S.K. Nair,Muscat,says:The above opinion very clearly indicates that
Rahul is still an immatured politician and for a handful of votes he
will utter any damn thing. Further, I vehmently oppose to his
revelation that Manmohan is a capable PM -- every intelligent citizen
of India knows that Manmohan is a puppet in the hands of the Italian
lady who is the mother of Rahul. So, before uttering anything, Rahul
should think twice and he should his maturity through sensible talks.
[7 Dec, 2009 1425hrs IST]

D.A.Eswar,Mysore,says:Rahul should also tell in Democracy like India
Chandrasekahr with 49 MPs support became Prime Minister.If Hindus who
are 80% in India vote in Parliament polls how a Muslim or Christian
will become PM? Please explain.What we have in India is not democracy
it is idiocy.
[7 Dec, 2009 1421hrs IST]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Muslim-can-become-PM-if-he-is-capable-Rahul/articleshow/5310561.cms

bademiyansubhanallah

unread,

Dec 12, 2009, 3:38:38 AM12/12/09

The Pakistan we can talk to
Hindustan Times
December 06, 2009

First Published: 23:21 IST(6/12/2009)
Last Updated: 23:33 IST(6/12/2009)

Pakistan, as is becoming increasingly obvious to the world outside, is
a prime victim of Islamic terrorism. This hardly makes the observation
of Pakistan being a prime conduit of jihadi violence redundant. It
merely makes the ‘Pakistan constant’ in the equation of Islamic
terrorism — and the way the world deals with Pakistan — more complex.
If Friday’s attacks on mosques in the military headquarters town of
Rawalpindi is a further confirmation, jihadis on Pakistani soil have
reached the stage that all revolutionaries do after a point: that of
turning on their own benefactors. For India, Pakistan has been for the
last one year two nations: its civil society and civilian government
trying to make sense (if nothing more) of the fundamentalist rage
swirling around them; and its military establishment, spearheaded by
the Inter-Services Intelligence, continuing to cherry-pick ‘good
jihadis’ for strategic reasons. This two-nation theory of Pakistan has
now become dated.

The Pakistani military establishment, with its own cabals and huddles,
is itself under attack from Islamic terrorists. The military
operations in Swat and Waziristan were not, thanks to American
refereeing, shadowboxing. In such a setting, the issue of India
talking to Pakistan in ‘good faith’ is no longer an option of
diplomatic manoeuvring; it is necessary. Demanding cooperation at a
time when Pakistan is facing an existential crisis is more fruitful
than doing what New Delhi has always done when it alone has been the
target: simply rail against an uncooperative Islamabad. But for India,
the question is, as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh put it in Washington
recently, whom do we talk to? Islamabad is living a hand-to-Big Mouth
existence with no coordinated decision — let alone one involving
neutralising elements bent on destroying the Pakistani State — being
made. US President Barack Obama understands this and thus his comments
about America being forced to ‘do their job’ if the Pakistanis can’t.

With a Federal Bureau of Investigation team scheduled to visit New
Delhi this week to share information on Pakistani-American David
Headley’s and Pakistani-Canadian Tahawwur Rana’s involvement in
planned terrorist attacks on India soil, India must push the envelope.
As of now, jihadi agents like Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafeez Saeed are
roaming about freely in Pakistan despite India providing ‘enough
evidence’ for his arrest for his role in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks.
With terrorist attacks within Pakistan unlikely to go down until the
country’s military establishment bites the leather to shed its
schizoid approach towards jihadi terror, New Delhi has the advantage
of telling Islamabad — Rawalpindi, actually — that it’s high time
Pakistan helps us to help them to help both of us against an
increasingly obvious common enemy.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/editorials/The-Pakistan-we-can-talk-to/Article1-483692.aspx

chhotemianinshallah

unread,

Dec 12, 2009, 7:49:15 AM12/12/09

Page last updated at 12:10 GMT, Saturday, 12 December 2009

Pakistan anti-Taliban offensive in S Waziristan 'over'

Pakistan's military began its offensive in South Waziristan in mid-
October

Pakistan's prime minister has said its military has completed an
offensive against the Taliban in the tribal region of South
Waziristan.

Yousuf Raza Gilani told reporters in Lahore the operation might now
move north to the Orakzai region, where many militants are thought to
have fled.

The Pakistani army has not yet commented on Mr Gilani's remarks.

However, correspondents say Mr Gilani's words do not mean the army is
pulling out of South Waziristan.

The United Nations says more than 40,000 civilians have left their
homes in Orakzai and are in need of humanitarian assistance.

"The operation in South Waziristan is over. Now there are talks about
Orakzai," Mr Gilani told reporters in televised remarks.

The Pakistani military launched its offensive in South Waziristan, in
the tribal area bordering Afghanistan, in mid-October.

The BBC's Orla Guerin in Islamabad says the prime minister did not
elaborate on the scale of any possible offensive in Orakzai, also in
the lawless tribal belt.

The military operation in South Waziristan was the biggest in years,
our correspondent says, with 30,000 troops sent into battle.

They have managed to drive many militants from their main bases there
but hundreds of people have been killed in revenge attacks in
Pakistan's cities, she adds, and many militant commanders are thought
to have escaped into other areas.

A number of air strikes have targeted militant targets in Orakzai in
recent weeks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8409486.stm

chhotemianinshallah

unread,

Dec 12, 2009, 8:48:14 AM12/12/09

November 27, 2009

India and Pakistan relations ‘better than feared’ one year after
Mumbai attacks
The repercussions of the 1992 attack on Babri Masjid continue to be
felt

Bronwen Maddox: World Briefing
6 Comments
Recommend? (14)

A year after the Mumbai attacks, relations between India and Pakistan
are better than many feared. That goes, too, for relations between
India’s Hindus and Muslims, for all the fury this week caused by a new
report on the 1992 razing of the Babri Masjid Mosque. The author
appears to blame senior figures in the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya
Janata Party — which caused something of an uproar in Parliament.

Of course, “better than feared” isn’t saying much, many would suggest.
The tension between the 80 per cent of the population that is Hindu
and the 13.5 per cent estimated to be Muslim has long been seen as one
of the fault lines running through Indian democracy.

It’s there, sure, and the bitterness, in any single case, cannot be
disputed. As this week’s leaked report by the Justice Liberhan
commission observes, the 1992 attack on the mosque by a Hindu mob,
which led to the deaths of 2,000 people, proved a watershed in modern
Indian politics, fuelling the rise of the BJP to power.

But the tension can be overstated among all the differences between
India’s religions, ethnic groups, castes and levels of affluence and
poverty that criss-cross a country of 1.2 billion people. If you were
going to point to a single threat to outclass the others, it would be
the risk that the so-called economic miracle proves shallow, and that
the economic alarms now sounding on many fronts herald a slowdown.

India deserves credit for restraint, at the unsubtle urging of the US
and Britain, in its response to the Mumbai bombing, as evidence came
in of the terrorists’ connections in Pakistan. Islamabad deserves
less, for its unconvincing investigation of those links.

It is harder, however, to give India credit for helping to ease
conflict with Pakistan over Kashmir, in its adamant refusal to
countenance outside mediation. It rejected with vehemence President
Obama’s declaration that he would work for a resolution over the
disputed Himalayan province. Its governments have maintained that they
have no trustworthy partner with whom to negotiate and, in the past
year, that the Mumbai bombing destroyed all such impulses.

That’s an understandable point — but not, in the end, a good one.
Given the turmoil now afflicting Pakistan (and, come to that, most of
India’s neighbours), anything that defuses tension over Kashmir should
be welcomed. India is in the rare position of being able to influence
events in Pakistan, most healthily through trade (still derisory) and
through giving Kashmir more autonomy, helping to peel the Pakistan
Army off that old, unhealthy obsession.

Its prime concern now, however, must be its own economy. The boom of
the past 15 years has done more than any government policy to lift old
barriers between religions and castes, and between the cities and the
rural poor, even if the contrasts are still breathtaking. This week’s
figures showing food price inflation of 15 per cent are a warning
sign. Industrial output grew by 9.1 per cent in September compared
with a year earlier — hardly sluggish — but fears of rising interest
rates are pushing down projections from here onwards.

India’s best answers to clashes among its own people and in its
neighbours have been, first, democracy, which gives a voice to those
tensions, and second, economic success.

It cannot take the security of either for granted.

6 Comments

Kishore Thampy wrote:
The British should stop lecturing India on its obligations; after all
the chaos of today in South Asia is of their own creation. Had the
country remained united Muslims would today constitute almost 50% of
the population.The status of Jammu & Kashmir would not be an issue.

As far as Pakistan is concerned what it has sown in the wind it is now
reaping in the whirlwind
November 28, 2009 12:28 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
Recommend? (4)

Mohanraj Vattampoil Moorkoth wrote:
All satistics are meaningless. The GDP and gound reality have no
relation whatsoever. As an Indian not concerned with statistical
juggling of the "great economists" in the government, I can say that
poverty in India is incredible. The success of a governemnt's economic
policy is to be judged not by the number of millionaires that the
"great economists" have helped create. It should be judged by the
general quality of life and the living condition of the common man. If
there are 50 millionaires in the country, there are 50 million people
living on less than half a (US) dollar a day!!! This is the result of
one term of the prime ministership of a "great economist" and his
advisers who claim to be "great economists."
V.M.Mohanraj, Bangalore.
November 27, 2009 6:48 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
Recommend? (2)

J A wrote:
A lot of comments about Pakistan, “making their bed and laying in
it.”, bizaar since evidence is emerging on a daily basis that the
militants causing terrorism in India are being backed by India's
Intelligence services. One must remember the dissidents in Kashmir are
local Indians unhappy with the way they treated as people with no
voice and no rights (within a so called democracy) with daily stories
of abuse of the people by the military. That is the bed India is
making.
The only difference between the two countries is that the Pakistan
democracy is in the hands of illiterate money grabbers that are not
interested or unable to deal with the situation and expose the state
backed terrorism India is behind. Mumbai gets world press coverage -
yet the daily terrorist attacks in Pakistan are dismissed as “home
made” problems. But that is the advantage of being a Tiger economy
that everyone wants a slice of. India should remember “what goes round
comes round”, so it is in every ones interest to diffuse the tensions
and and prevent tomorrow’s problems today through dialogue and not
state backed terrorism. Britain learned that lesson in N. Ireland and
is now reaping the rewards of Peace.

November 27, 2009 5:42 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
Recommend? (9)

R M wrote:
I support the dialog on Jammu and Kashmir.However this would only be
possible within framework of the recent statement of PM Dr.Singh that
the borders are non-negotiable.Everything else including
trade,entertainment,songs etc. could be discussed I imagine.
November 27, 2009 2:57 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
Recommend? (1)

B N wrote:

Pakistan is in mayhem, a gun trotting lawless society and a terrorist
State. Its military is obsessed with power and influence and therefore
needs to keep alive a bogyman to absorb lion share of the budget. At
the same time Pakistan sees itself custodian of Islam and therefore
will continue to nurture terrorist and terrorism.
Pakistan will continue to pull wool over the eyes of the West by
detaining a few terrorist now and then to show their involvement with
the war on terror, and continue to receive huge amount of Aid.
However, they will not touch the terror camps or the breeding ground
of terror. One must remember, “As you make your bed, so you must lie
in it”. It’s time the civilised citizens of Pakistani wakeup and see
what is being done in their name.

November 27, 2009 11:08 AM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
Recommend? (8)

Ganesh Prasad wrote:
India should do this, India should do that, yada yada yada.

How about this for a better idea?

India does nothing for anybody else. It looks after its own interests
and lets others lie in the beds they made for themselves. The Pakistan
Army can "peel itself off its old, unhealthy obsession" when the
blowback from its sponsorship of terrorism gets hot enough.
November 27, 2009 9:31 AM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk
Recommend? (16)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6934129.ece

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 12, 2009, 9:10:25 AM12/12/09

National Conference-Congress treating those fighting militancy
shabbily: BJP
PTI Saturday, December 12, 2009 16:21 IST

Jammu: Leader of BJP legislature party in Jammu and Kashmir Chaman Lal
Gupta today accused the National Conference-Congress coalition
of"shabbily" treating the brave men who have played a big role in
fighting the menace of terrorism in far-flung areas of the state.

"Instead, the coalition partners are encouraging those elements who
indulged in loot and plunder during the past years after getting arms
trainings in Pakistan occupied Kashmir," Gupta said addressing a
meeting of corporators and other party activists of Jammu West
Assembly constituency here.

He said the authorities, under various pulls and pressures, were
removing the security forces even from militancy-infected areas of the
state and several schemes are underway to "rehabilitate" those ultras
who had been indulging in many killings and subversive activities.

"The Special Police Officers (SPOs) and some others who played most
important role in helping the security forces in driving out the
militants from their hideouts in difficult areas and had kept the
morale of villagers high in fighting the ultras, have been ignored by
the authorities," Gupta, who was Union minister of state for defence
during NDA rule, said.

In this connection, he cited recent lathi charge on protesting SPOs
who were demanding permanent jobs in police and paramilitary forces.

Terming the "quiet diplomacy" as initiated by the Centre to rope in
all shades of opinion in dialogue process for finding solution to
Kashmir issue as dangerous, the BJP leader said nationalists of Jammu
and Ladakh as also representatives of Pandit, Gujjar and Bakerwal
communities have been kept out of the purview of this exercise.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_national-conference-congress-treating-those-fighting-militancy-shabbily-bjp_1322888

Sid Harth

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Dec 12, 2009, 1:16:01 PM12/12/09

Peshawar on front line of Pakistan's militant war
By KATHY GANNON (AP) – 2 hours ago

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Grisly ghosts haunt 8-year-old Saira Khan's
dreams.

Her tiny hands cover her mouth as she tells of the images that come to
her at night, images of burnt and mutilated bodies. She heard an
explosion last month just a few blocks away from her cousin's home.

"I got so scared," she says, her eyes getting wider. "We didn't know
what to do, so we just lay on the floor."

Peshawar, where Saira lives, is on the front line of Pakistan's war
against militants. In October, the Pakistani army launched its most
concentrated offensive yet in Peshawar, against the tribal strongholds
of some of the country's most ruthless militants.

The militants in turn are fighting back with a vicious bombing
campaign. They are striking with frightening regularity anywhere and
everywhere in the city.

That leaves the people of Peshawar caught in between, afraid, fed up
and mistrustful of all sides — the militants, the Pakistani army and
the U.S., which is seen as supporting the push against insurgents.

Peshawar hospitals are overwhelmed with wounded from nearly daily
explosions. Dozens of police barricades meant to catch suicide bombers
slow the chaotic traffic on bigger roads to a crawl. Schools are shut
periodically because of security fears.

Ten-year-old Kainat, who goes to Saira's school, calls her hometown
scary and telephones her friends all the time now.

"I am just worried about everyone," she says. "I talk to them all the
time and I ask 'how is your mother and your father and everyone is
safe?' I just want to know that everyone is all right."

The school hides within a 10-foot-high metal gate with two guards
watching it. One guard checks the small backpacks of the children
every morning with a metal detector. The Taliban has routinely
attacked schools, particularly ones attended by girls.

The school principal and owner, retired Maj. Sultan Hussain, says he
has trained his guards to trust no one. "I have told them, don't
believe anyone, doubt everyone, search everyone," he says.

The strict security measures are a stark change from just a few months
ago, when people were rarely stopped from entering the school
compound.

"We even discourage parents from coming to the school," says Hussain.
"The fewer adults seeking access the better. The situation here is
very bad."
___

Peshawar, the capital of Northwest Frontier Province, has always been
on the front lines because of its location, sprawled out at the foot
of the famed Khyber Pass next to Afghanistan. It has been raided by
the likes of Genghis Khan, Tamerlaine and Alexander the Great, and
writer Rudyard Kipling once described it as a place of tribesmen,
smugglers and horsemen.

The Pakistani army launched its offensive on Oct. 17. Militant leader
Hakimullah Mehsud vowed to exact his revenge with suicide attacks.

In one month in Peshawar, 221 people were killed and nearly 500
wounded in bombings. A single truck bomb in a market that sells mostly
women's clothes and children's toys killed more than 100. The latest
attack was Monday when a bomb went off outside the courthouse in
Peshawar, killing 10 people.

Yet in the marketplaces, people wonder at who is behind the bombing
campaign. More often than not, their answer is not the militants.
Occasionally it is Pakistan's spy agency, but most often it is a
"foreign hand" — which here in northwest Pakistan usually refers to
the United States.

At the entrance to Peshawar's Saddar Street, a congested shopping area
where most government and army buildings are located, steel yellow
striped barricades force vehicles to stop. Cyclists are patted down,
and four policemen are armed with AK 47 assault rifles.

They have no dogs trained to sniff out explosives, and the authorities
have run out of bullet-proof vests.

"But we are not afraid," says the head constable, Sifatullah Khan. "We
are Pukhtuns. We are standing here without anything showing the
terrorists that we are not afraid of them. And if a suicide bomber
explodes himself here, then a bulletproof vest won't save you."

The suicide bombers are becoming more sophisticated, Khan says, hiding
their explosives in the door panels of their vehicles.

"Of course we are worried about the situation here. But if I could
save the whole of Saddar from a suicide bomber, then it is a sacrifice
I would make of my life," Khan says.
___

In the Lady Reading Hospital, Peshawar's oldest and largest hospital,
the war is ever-present. The last thing police officer Samiullah Ahmed
remembers is the sound of a deafening explosion that killed 19 people.
He lies in a hospital bed grimacing as his elder brother spreads
ointment on his burned face and hands.

"Everyone is afraid," he says.

In the ward reserved for blast victims, there is a consensus among the
wounded: The army should stop its assault on the militants to bring
peace to their city.

In a neighboring bed, 16-year-old Noman is recovering from wounds
received in the same explosion. The only son in a household of five
girls, Noman and his father take turns rickshaw driving to earn money.
He's narrowly missed death twice in bomb explosions over the last
month.

"He's my only son," says Noman's father, Akram. "All we want is peace
and I think the army should stop so we can have peace."

Dr. Arif Attaullah says he doesn't cry easily. But when the truck bomb
killed 112 people in Peshawar's Mena Bazaar he couldn't stop the
tears.

"A father came in and he was holding a small boy. The boy's body was
burned black and his father was crying 'I sent you to school to learn,
not to die,'" Attaullah says. "That made me cry. I am a tough person —
a surgeon — but day after day we are seeing these things that are too
horrible."

Dr. Muslim Khan, who is deputy head of the emergency department, says
the relentless attacks and steady stream of wounded and dead are
taking a psychological toll on his doctors.

"Little things make them angry, they are often depressed," he says.
"My wife tells her friends that for at least one hour when I get home
no one can talk to me. I guess it is true."

The cavernous room that is the initial port of call for the dead and
wounded is stacked with dozens of gurneys and stretchers, intravenous
poles listing to one side __ all at the ready for the next bombing.

The online blood bank at the 1450-bed hospital has stocks reserved
exclusively for blast victims. Security is tight. Guards stand at
every gate, patting down visitors, refusing to allow vehicles to
enter. Patients have been restricted to one visitor.

"It's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys," says Dr. Bilal
Ahmed. "It's scary."

They all agree the army should end its operation in the tribal regions
that border Peshawar, negotiate and find peace.

Khan says he believes the United States has the technology and the
ability to end the fighting but chooses not to.

"I think that America wants this drama because it is in their
interest, because they want a reason to take our nuclear weapons," he
says.
___

Provincial Information Minister Iftikar Hussain is on the Taliban's
hit list.

In February 2008, voters threw out a right-wing religious government
made up mostly of mullahs or clerics and put in power the secular-
leaning Awami National Party (ANP) or People's National Party, to
which Hussain belongs.

The Taliban has killed more than 200 ANP workers. In a statement, it
also vowed to kill Hussain. Hussain travels with an armed guard but
says he will not be driven underground by the Taliban.

"We believe that our fate is written, that our time of death is
already written," he says.

Hussain's government last week announced the establishment of a 2,000-
strong Community Watch force to work with the police to intercept
militants trying to sneak into cities with explosive-packed cars.
Already, lashkars, or local militias drawn from the villages, do
something similar.

Fahimur Rahman Khan heads one such lashkar in Basidkhiel, barely 10
kilometers (six miles) from Peshawar but next door to the violent
Khyber tribal belt.

The Taliban have tried several times to kill Khan. Just two weeks ago
they sent their gunmen hidden beneath the all-enveloping burqa to kill
Khan. They failed. But the attempts have left 35 dead and more than
140 injured.

Mobilizing the people is key to defeating the Taliban, says Khan.

"The Taliban cannot do anything without the support of the people," he
says. "The locals know who they are and can run them out of town."

FILE - This Oct. 28. 2009 file photo shows a man at the site of a
bombing in Peshawar, Pakistan, which killed more than 100. Peshawar is
on the front line of Pakistan's war against militants. In October, the
Pakistani army launched its most concentrated offensive yet in
Peshawar, against the tribal strongholds of some of the country's most
ruthless militants. (AP Photo/Mohammad Iqbal, File)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gI84-t2aQSxodAE_gMOlwH0dvz0QD9CHS0300

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 12, 2009, 4:33:45 PM12/12/09

A Pakistani Connection In NY
Arati Jerath
Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:48 IST

T he Pakistani lineup at Hurriyat leader Mirwaiz Omar Farooq's recent
meeting with President Asif Zardari in New York was stunning. While
foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and foreign secretary Salman
Bashir were obvious participants since they were attending on Zardari,
it's the presence of two others that has set tongues wagging here. One
was Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Hussain Haqqani.

The other was Islamabad's envoy to New Delhi, Shahid Malik, who
apparently flew to New York for the 45-minute meeting. Haqqani is a
significant addition to the team. He is said to be one of the three
Pakistanis who wield considerable influence with the Obama
Administration, the other two being Afghanistan expert Ahmed Rashid
and leading political and strategic affairs analyst and Huffington
Post columnist Shuja Nawaz.

Suffice to say, Haqqani's takeaway from the meeting with the Mirwaiz
is likely to be a significant input into Obama's evolving South Asia
policy. Analysts here are wondering what New Delhi-based Malik put on
the table for discussion.

* * *
There's a telling irony in the name that's being considered to succeed
Gopal Gandhi as Left-ruled West Bengal governor. Shivraj Patil is said
to be the frontrunner for the job. Considering that the CPI(M) had
blocked his nomination as UPA candidate for the post of President of
India, Patil seems to be an odd choice.

Although the union government has not made up its mind yet, nor has it
sounded out the Bengal government, Left circles are already buzzing
about Patil. And surprisingly, there seems to be little hostility to
the idea.

This is clearly not a case of sauce for the goose also being sauce for
the gander. Maybe after the Left's stormy and fractious relationship
with Gandhi, Patil's laidback approach will come as a relief. He's
known to stick to the rules and play by the book, unlike Gandhi who
had a unique interventionist style of functioning.
* * *
RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat may have taken a leaf out of Rahul Gandhi's
book. Aware that overhauling a huge, ancient organisation like the
Congress is not easy (he has his father Rajiv's failures to draw on
for lessons), Rahul is engaged in parallel activities outside of the
main structure. He's creating a youthful organisation that could
replace the ancient regime when it's finally ready.

Bhagwat has embarked on a somewhat similar project in the BJP. While
the traditional party organisation fumbles and stumbles its way
through a nasty leadership battle, Bhagwat has put his pointsman in
the BJP, Bal Apte, on several parallel projects.

One is the creation of a thinktank to ideate and craft a whole range
of policies that would give coherence to the BJP's future politics. It
is unfortunate that the party has virtually no economic, defence,
social or foreign policy views today. Bhagwat has set a few parameters
for choosing members of this thinktank. One is an age bar. No-one over
55 will be allowed to join!

* * *
Tailpiece
The essential sycophantic nature of Congress workers spilled over when
Manmohan Singh visited Mumbai recently to campaign for the party in
the assembly elections. They surrounded him and gushed that he is
their lucky mascot. Apparently, Manmohan Singh was in Mumbai just
before voting day in the Lok Sabha polls and the Congress-NCP swept
almost all the city seats. Reminding him of that, the workers simpered
and said they hope his Midas touch will help them strike gold again.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/column_a-pakistani-connection-in-ny_1300225

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 13, 2009, 8:40:27 AM12/13/09

Tough Visa norms for foreigners with Pakistani roots

12 Dec 2009, 0535 hrs IST, Deepshikha Sikarwar & Amiti Sen, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: Business travellers, tourists, students or any other
category of visa seekers to India from all countries, including the US
and the EU, Most expensive cities for expats may have to get prior
clearance from the home ministry if their ancestry till their
grandparents is traced back to Pakistan.

Following the David Headley affair, the government is seeking to frame
new visa regulations which would require individuals, whose parents or
grandparents were from Pakistan, to go through rigorous scrutiny
before they are given visas, a government official has said.

“Even if an individual’s parents are not from Pakistan, but his/her
grandparents belonged to the country, that person would be considered
to be of Pakistani origin and would have to go through prior checks,”
a government official, who did not wish to be named, told ET.

Minister of state for external affairs Shashi Tharoor had said on
Thursday in a written reply in Rajya Sabha that the Centre is
reviewing visa policy for foreigners of Pakistan-origin. At present,
heads of Indian missions in the US have the freedom to grant visas to
US and Canadian citizens of Pakistani origin as per guidelines laid
down by the home ministry.

Once new visa rules are in place, they may lose this freedom and all
applications for visa from people of Pakistani origin would have to be
routed through the home ministry. Consultations have already been
initiated with other ministries on the issue.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Services/Travel/Visa-Power/Tough-Visa-norms-for-foreigners-with-Pakistani-roots/articleshow/5328748.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 13, 2009, 8:43:52 AM12/13/09

India reviews policy for visa to foreigners of Pak origin

11 Dec 2009, 0656 hrs IST, TNN

NEW DELHI: As a fallout of David Headley and his aide Tahawwur Hussain
Rana’s case, the government is now reviewing the process of visa
issuance to all foreigners of Pakistani origin.

In a reply in the Rajya Sabha, minister of state for foreign affairs
Shashi Tharoor said the ministry has initiated an inquiry into how
Rana and his wife Samraz Rana Akhtar managed to acquire Indian visas.

“The policy for issue of visas to all foreigners of Pakistani origin
is under review,’’ said Tharoor, adding heads of Indian mission and
posts in the US have the discretion to grant visas to US and Canadian
citizens of Pakistani origin as per the existing norms.

On Wednesday, home secretary G K Pillai had said the country needed to
take a fresh look at its visa policy to vet people travelling on
passports issued by countries which are considered to be “safe” from
the point of view of counter-terror .

US citizens get India visa alert:

The US has asked its citizens to review travel plans to India amid
reports of new visa rules which are likely to affect those willing to
come to the country again on a tourist visa within two months of their
last departure. A message on the US embassy website said India was
reviewing its norms pertaining to the entry of US citizens holding
long-term Indian tourist visas.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Services/Travel/Visa-Power/India-reviews-policy-for-visa-to-foreigners-of-Pak-origin/articleshow/5325195.cms

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 13, 2009, 3:40:52 PM12/13/09

India gears up to tackle 'financial terror'
Aditya Kaul / DNA
Monday, December 14, 2009 0:38 IST

New Delhi: India, for the first time, has decided to put together a
'financial terror dossier', which is expected to be handed over to
Pakistan as evidence of its attempts to destabilise the Indian
economy.

More importantly, the dossier will help India secure critical
international support in pressurising Pakistan to clamp down on
counterfeit currency exports to India.
The exercise is expected to commence on Monday when top intelligence
officials will put their heads together in a meeting to be headed by
the national security council secretariat (NSCS), which is under the
supervision of the national security advisor.

The meeting will be attended by top officials from the Research and
Analysis Wing, ministry of external affairs, National Investigation
Agency, directorate of revenue intelligence, Central Bureau of
Investigation and the Intelligence Bureau's multi-agency centre.

After 26/11, India has aggressively built its case against Pakistan
internationally, which has yielded significant returns. The government
now wants to build a similar case against Pakistan's counterfeit
Indian currency industry, which has lately acquired startling accuracy
in copying the security features of Indian banknotes.

"There is enough evidence with us of Pakistan's incriminating role in
printing fake Indian currency notes (FICN) and pumping it into India,"
a senior intelligence official told DNA.
Intelligence agencies are believed to be in possession of indisputable
evidence about the existence of FICN-printing units in Karachi,
Lahore, Quetta and Peshawar. Several disclosures to this effect have
been made by arrested Pakistani militants and others.
Many FICN printing operations are reportedly being carried out at
Pakistan's legitimate currency presses.

There are also reports that Pakistan has been importing currency paper
and ink in massive quantities from European countries, including the
UK, Sweden and Switzerland for diversion into FICN.

Currency experts who have examined recently smuggled FICN were stumped
by the degree of genuineness of the notes, which could not be detected
by the naked eye as fake and required microscopic scrutiny.

The security features on the notes are believed to have been copied
with over 95% accuracy, including the new features incorporated by the
Reserve Bank of India in 2004-05. In the backdrop of a currency
template theft -- which is being investigated by the CBI -- a fresh
assessment says that the number of fake notes may shoot up this year.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-gears-up-to-tackle-financial-terror_1323457

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 14, 2009, 1:03:21 AM12/14/09

Pakistan's PM backtracks on military offensive comments
December 13, 2009 -- Updated 1013 GMT (1813 HKT)

Pakistani troops patrol on a hill top post in South Waziristan along
the Afghan border on November 17.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Pakistan's Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani tells reporter operation
against Taliban is over
Hours later he backtracks on national television and declines to say
when operation may end
Pakistani army conducting an intense operation to rout militants along
Afghan border

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan's Prime Minister Yousaf Raza
Gilani made a U-turn Saturday -- first declaring that the military
offensive against Islamic militants in South Waziristan had ended,
then saying there is no timeframe for its completion.

The Pakistani army is conducting an intense operation to rout
militants from their haven along the country's border with
Afghanistan. The militants, in turn, have launched a series of deadly
attacks in retaliation.

Answering a question from a reporter who asked whether the government
will engage in dialogue with the Taliban in South Waziristan, Gilani
said the operation was over.

"There was talk of dialogue even during the Malakand Operation. But
now, the operation in South Waziristan is over. In fact, at the
moment, there is talk of an operation in Orakzai Agency," he said.

Malakand is another operation that the military is conducting in
another region. Orakzai is one of seven districts that make up the
Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan. Like South
Waziristan, it is also considered rife with militants.

Gilani's comments, made in the eastern city of Lahore, were aired on
national television. But hours later, he backtracked.

"It could have been in a different context," he told reporters in
Karachi. These remarks were also aired on television.

Gilani also declined to say when the offensive might end.

"We will take military action wherever we get information about the
presence of militants," he said.

When reached for clarification, the prime minister's office pointed
CNN to the second statement.

The army did not comment on Gilani's remarks. A release it sends out
daily made no mention of an end to the offensive on Saturday.

Instead, Saturday's release provided the usual breakdown of operations
in various parts of the country, including South Waziristan.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/13/pakistan.gilani.offensive/index.html

Sid Harth

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Dec 14, 2009, 1:35:30 PM12/14/09

Swiss Muslims protest minaret ban
AP 12 December 2009, 10:06pm IST

BERN, Switzerland: Several hundred Swiss Muslims peacefully protested
against their country's minaret ban on Saturday, with speakers
denouncing what they called a hate campaign against Islam.

The protest of between 500 and 800 people in the capital, Bern, was
not supported by the country's main Muslim organizations.

It came two weeks after Swiss voters decided to ban the construction
of minarets, drawing wide criticism from Muslim and other European
nations.

Nicolas Blancho, who organized Saturday's protest, said he did not
believe that the country's voters hate Islam but that they had been
scared by propaganda from right-wing parties.

The main guest speaker, a controversial Muslim preacher, was absent
because Swiss authorities refused him entry, saying he poses a public
security risk.

Pierre Vogel, a German former professional boxer who converted to
Islam, is known for his conservative positions. Vogel was turned back
as he tried to cross into Switzerland by car from Germany late Friday,
said frontier corps spokesman Markus Zumbach.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/Swiss-Muslims-protest-minaret-ban-/articleshow/5331475.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 14, 2009, 8:30:53 PM12/14/09

India a 'strategic ally', Pak a 'hired gun' for the US: Imran

14 Dec 2009, 1912 hrs IST, PTI

ISLAMABAD: The US considers India as a "strategic ally" while Pakistan
is treated as a "hired gun", cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan
has said, as he blamed President Asif Ali Zardari for not daring to
upset New Delhi for its alleged involvement in terror attacks in the
country.

Khan has said that Zardari does not want to "ruffle any feathers in
New Delhi" or blame India for being "involved through Afghanistan in
terrorist attacks in Pakistan."

"He (Zardari) doesn't want to ruffle any feathers in New Delhi. He
basically does what Americans want him to do. He is petrified of
anything where he would get Americans upset," Khan said.

Khan noted that the Inspector General of Police of the North West
Frontier Province had publicly stated that there was an "Indian hand"
in a recent suicide attack in Peshawar.

"Yet Zardari didn't utter a word. Well, India and America (have a)
strategic alliance. India is considered a long-term strategic ally
while Pakistan really is a hired gun and Zardari is a hired gun,
petrified of saying something.

And so he (Zardari) is scared of blaming India when the other
government functionaries keep saying that India is involved through
Afghanistan in terrorist attacks in Pakistan," Khan told his
biographer Frank Huzur in an interview.

Over the past few weeks, top Pakistani leaders have claimed that India
is fomenting unrest in different parts of the country.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has said evidence about India's
alleged role in such activities will be made public at the appropriate
time.

India has dismissed these allegations as baseless. The chief of the
Pakistan Tekrik-e-Insaf party, who recently offered to media between
the government and militants, said he did not care if his opponents
labelled him as "pro-Taliban" or "anti-terrorist."

"I pity the understanding of my opponents and political adversaries.
It doesn't make any difference whatever opponents think.

My vision is clear, I want to see a sovereign Pakistan. The government
is fighting an American war for a fistful of dollars. We are earning
blood money," he said.

"If my party comes to power, I will make sure these people are
punished so that nobody ever repeats these offences.

The military operations produce militants," Khan told Huzur, whose
"Imran Versus Imran - An Untold Story" is scheduled to be published
next year.

Khan also dismissed media reports about the security of Pakistan's
nuclear arsenal.

"New Delhi should stop worrying about such eventualities and repose
faith in the gallantry of Pakistan Army to defend its precious
assets.

There is no threat to our nukes, either from within as touted in
certain quarters as from extremist elements or sympathisers of the
Taliban in rank and file of the army.

The Pakistan Army is not only moderate, it is also secular in its
outlook," he said.

He claimed there is a growing perception in the Pakistani public that
the "Indian government is fuelling militancy and encouraging
terrorists - a lot of suicide attacks, whereas our army and police
believes Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan are carrying out these attacks.

But civilians believe Indians (are behind the attacks). It is
unfortunate such sentiments have set in.

However, India is more popular on Pakistani streets than America
today."

Asked if India-Pakistan relations will improve in the next five to 10
years, Khan replied, "I can't say, but first the war on terror should
be resolved.

There will be no movement forward without resolving some core
disputes. First, the Kashmir issue must be resolved.

And, it must be resolved through dialogue with India, Pakistan and the
Kashmiri leadership on the table.

I don't believe in military solutions." He added: "India today feels
Pakistan is at the weakest, so they are pushing hard. They think this
is the time to corner Pakistan and get maximum concessions out of
Islamabad. The basis of all terrorism is all political.

There will be another Hafiz Saeed unless we resolve political
issues."

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Politics/Nation/India-a-strategic-ally-Pak-a-hired-gun-for-the-US-Imran/articleshow/5337010.cms

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 15, 2009, 3:24:39 AM12/15/09

Farewell video led parents of American 'jihadis' to raise alarm
AP 11 December 2009, 01:06am IST

WASHINGTON: When five young American Muslims were arrested in Pakistan
over possible links to terrorism, a key break in the case came not
from federal agents or spies, but parents worried their sons may have
made a terrible decision.

The families, based in northern Virginia and Washington, were worried
after watching what is described as a disturbing farewell video from
the young men, showing scenes of war and casualties and saying Muslims
must be defended.

"One person appeared in that video and they made references to the
ongoing conflict in the world and that young Muslims have to do
something," said Nihad Awad, of the Council on American-Islamic
Relations, or CAIR.

After the disappearance of the five men in late November, their
families, members of the local Muslim community, sought help from
CAIR, which put them in touch with the FBI and got them a lawyer. The
missing men range in age from 19 to 25. One, Ramy Zamzam, is a dental
student at Howard University.

They were arrested on Wednesday in Sargodha and linked to the banned
militant group Jaish-e-Mohammed. Three are of Pakistani descent, one
is of Egyptian descent and the other has Yemeni heritage, Pakistani
cops said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Farewell-video-led-parents-of-American-jihadis-to-raise-alarm/articleshow/5324686.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 15, 2009, 8:13:40 AM12/15/09

Taliban 'targeting' Pakistan spies

Watch Video

Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, has
said that extremist groups involved in attacks on US and Nato forces
in Afghanistan "have been taking refuge across the border in
Pakistan".

To fight that, Washington has been cultivating a relationship with the
Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's spy agency.

But as Imran Khan reports, the ISI are now facing their own struggle,
as the Taliban turn on them.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/12/200912159562324745.html

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 15, 2009, 8:38:02 AM12/15/09

Official: Explosion kills 10 in central Pakistan
By ASIF SHAHZAD (AP) – 2 hours ago

ISLAMABAD — A government official says at least 10 people have been
killed and 25 wounded in an explosion in central Pakistan.

The blast ripped through a market near the home of a politician in the
town of Dera Ghazi Khan on Tuesday.

It was the latest in a series of suicide and other explosions that
have killed more than 500 people in Pakistan since October. The
bloodshed has been blamed on Islamist militants retaliating for an
army offensive against the Taliban in the country's northwest.

Punjab province Law Minister Rana Sanaullah gave the casualty tolls.

Local commissioner Hasan Iqbal said Tuesday's explosion appeared to be
a car bomb.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further
information. AP's earlier story is below.

ISLAMABAD (AP) — An explosion ripped through a market near the home of
a politician in central Pakistan on Tuesday, wounding at least a dozen
people and leaving many trapped under rubble. Several were feared
dead.

The blast in Dera Ghazi Khan was the latest in a series of suicide and
other explosions that have killed more than 500 people in Pakistan
since October. The bloodshed has been blamed on Islamist militants
retaliating for an army offensive against the Taliban in the country's
northwest.

Local commissioner Hasan Iqbal said Tuesday's explosion appeared to be
a car bomb.

It left a massive crater and was heard from a half-a-mile (kilometer)
away, he said. The home of Zulfikhar Khosa, senior adviser to the
chief minister of Punjab province, was badly damaged in the blast, as
were several shops in the market.

"It is terrorist activity," said Iqbal, who said a dozen wounded
people were shifted to hospitals.

Khosa was not believed to be at the house at the time of the
explosion.

Raza Khan, a local resident at the scene, said people were panicking.

"The whole market has collapsed," he told The Associated Press by
phone. "There is smoke and people running here and there."

Islamist militants have staged several attacks in the eastern Punjab
province to illustrate their reach across the country, far beyond the
northwest tribal regions bordering Afghanistan.

Several hard-line religious schools operate in Dera Ghazi Khan area.
The town also has experienced sectarian attacks pitting Sunni and
Shiite Muslims against each other.

FILE - A man is seen at the spot of an explosion in Peshawar,
Pakistan, in this Oct. 28, 2009 file photo. A car bomb had torn
through a market place in northwestern Pakistan, hours after U.S.
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton arrived in the country. (AP
Photo/Mohammad Iqbal, File)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hkiMxbHNH0BqgpWA2ZG6VD6wVTmAD9CJMNAO0

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 16, 2009, 3:37:20 AM12/16/09

Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Mullen concerned over collusion between Pak-Afghan militants

KABUL: The chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff expressed concern
on Monday about the “growing level of collusion” between the Afghan
Taliban and Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups taking refuge across
the border in Pakistan. Visiting Kabul to discuss the upcoming build
up and training of Afghanistan’s security forces, Admiral Mike Mullen
told reporters he would discuss the issue with Pakistani authorities
during talks in Islamabad later this week. Painting a grim picture,
Mullen said Afghan Taliban dominated a third of Afghanistan’s 34
provinces and “the insurgency has grown more violent, more pervasive
and more sophisticated”. ap

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C12%5C15%5Cstory_15-12-2009_pg1_3

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 16, 2009, 8:12:44 AM12/16/09

Holbrooke says not working on Kashmir issue

STAFF WRITER 14:47 HRS IST
Lalit K Jha

Washington, Dec 16 (PTI) Making it clear that he is not working on the
Kashmir problem, US special envoy for Af-Pak Richard Holbrooke has
insisted that his mandate does not cover the issue, though he keeps
India closely informed about his effort in the region where the
country is a "hugely important factor."

The Kashmir issue is neither his mandate, nor the countries in the
region expect him to do, Holbrooke said at a meeting at the Council on
Foreign Relations, a Washington- based think tank, in response to a
question.

"Let me be very clear. I am not working on that (Kashmir) problem,"
Holbrooke said when asked about the issue and the need for US to
mediate on it.

"I don't even mention the problem I am not working on.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/426168_Holbrooke-says-not-working-on-Kashmir-issue

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 16, 2009, 4:21:58 PM12/16/09

How to believe in the truth
Hindustan Times
December 16, 2009

First Published: 23:12 IST(16/12/2009)
Last Updated: 23:14 IST(16/12/2009)

There is more than a little reticence on the part of Kashmir-watchers
to analyse the storm that has the Shopian deaths at its epicentre.
This has to do more with the fact that rational discussions on the
tragedy have been overwhelmed by knee-jerk reactions and politics than
about being in denial. Conclusions were drawn by those who saw Asiya
and Neelofar Jan’s deaths on May 29 as a case of rape and murder by
security forces much before the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI)
report was made public last week. No matter that footnotes in the
report that has booked six doctors and seven others for falsifying and
destroying forensic and post-mortem evidence will change the positions
of the nay-sayers. Essentially, what is happening in Srinagar is a
full-blown battle of credibility. A sizeable section of Kashmiris,
naturally inclined towards distrusting anything that has a whiff of
New Delhi, smells a cover-up.

But there is no reason why the CBI report cannot be believed. Going by
the point-by-point case made by the CBI, biases and blatant
irregularities were made by the initial investigators. The fact that
evidence was destroyed may or may not prove that a plot was made to
nail security forces. Such cases of mishandling or destroying forensic
evidence are tragically all too common in the rest of India. But a
suspected rape and murder in Kashmir has very different connotations
from the same crime being committed elsewhere in the country. Like
moths to a flame, politicians have milled around the issue to
disregard the CBI report and cry ‘cover-up!’. Chief Minister Omar
Abdullah himself had to back down after initially making comments
about the deaths being ‘drownings’ when he was pounced on by the
opposition People’s Democratic Party (PDP).

So how does one settle matters and present the truth behind the
Shopian deaths? For one, the truth has to be accepted. For another, if
the findings of the CBI report does point to the truth, those opposing
its ‘validity’ should be made to change their mind as quietly as
possible. This can be done if, and only if, the points of reference of
an inquiry are agreed upon by both an all-inclusive commission. Such a
commission should include members from the government, the opposition,
the Hurriyat and independent bodies — in other words, people from both
sides of the Shopian divide. The Shopian deaths can, if left at this,
latch on to something bigger, unconnected and dangerous. For the sake
of building trust — both within civil society and the political class
— let the truth be discovered from scratch and for all parties to
agree upon.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial-views-on/edits/How-to-believe-in-the-truth/Article1-487406.aspx

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 16, 2009, 4:47:54 PM12/16/09

Will Pakistan relieve burden of U.S. forces in Afghanistan?

www.chinaview.cn 2009-12-16 17:42:23

By Li Jingchen

ISLAMABAD, Dec. 16 (Xinhua) -- Urged by the United States,
Pakistan launched two major military operations against Taliban
militants in the country's northwest this year. Will Pakistan relieve
the burden of the United States in fighting Taliban in neighboring
Afghanistan?

In March, Obama announced his new strategy for Afghanistan and
Pakistan "to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al Qaida in Pakistan and
Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the
future."

In Pakistan, the new government under Zardari put forward its 3D
Strategy -- Dialogue, Development, Deterrence -- to deal with the
situation in the country's tribal and northwestern areas with the view
of maintaining peace and security in the region.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/16/content_12657433.htm

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 16, 2009, 4:57:33 PM12/16/09

As wife's arrest looms, Kerala fronts shun Madani

16 Dec 2009, 1658 hrs IST, ET Bureau

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: At Anwarssery in Kerala's Kollam district,
People's Democratic Party leader Abdul Nasser Madani and his wife
Sufiya Madani are cooped up in a virtual fortress fashioned by scores
of PDP supporters, who fear that the arrest of Sufiya is imminent,
following her listing as an accused in the four-year-old case of
burning a Tamil Nadu bus at Kalamassery.

To lend moral support to the couple, the PDP state leadership is
holding a relay satyagraha, and Madani himself has warned the
authorities to be responsible for any eventualities if Sufiya is
arrested.

In contrast, the ruling Left Democratic Front and the Congress-led
United Democratic Front, both having courted PDP at different times in
the past, have strained to distance themselves from Madani and his
party, as the state police seem to be readying themselves to arrest
Sufiya, following leads from the interrogation of LeT-suspect
Thadiyantavida Nazir.

It is suspected that Sufiya had been part of the bus-burning incident,
which was intended to send a strong message to the Tamil Nadu
government which had kept Madani imprisoned in Coimbatore. Madani has
since been acquitted, but the leads given by T Nazir has opened a
series of conspiracy cases, including those pertaining to the bus-
burning incident.

Sufiya’s anticipatory bail plea comes up for hearing again before the
high court on Thursday, but ahead of that both the Left and Congress
have virtually shunned Madani and PDP.

Chief minister VS Achuthanandan said today that the Left would have
“no truck with such outfits”, adding that even in future his party was
of the opinion that there should be no links with parties like PDP.

However, the CPM’s coalition partner CPI, which got short-changed
during the seat allocation in the Lok Sabha polls owing to the PDP
factor, has embarrassed the CPM by pointing out that it had always
advocated against any alliance with outfits like PDP.

Madani has no friends in the Congress either. Perhaps sensing the
situation, Madani has accused Congress leaders too of being part of
the conspiracy against him. The ball is now in the Left government’s
court as it considers arresting one of the key leaders of PDP, which
had been its working partner only a few months ago.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Politics/Nation/As-wifes-arrest-looms-Kerala-fronts-shun-Madani/articleshow/5344040.cms

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 1:11:18 AM12/17/09

Pak, India must talk about Kashmir; everything, says Clinton

Published by: Noor Khan
Published: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 at 21:16 IST

Washington: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wants India and
Pakistan to resume their peace dialogue and discuss everything,
including Kashmir, since the security of both the countries is
threatened by terrorists.

But while the US would encourage India and Pakistan, problems between
the countries can be "solved by the two countries themselves having
that kind of ongoing dialogue," she said in an interview with
Pakistan's Samaa TV last week, according to a transcript released by
the State Department.

Asked about Pakistan's perceived concerns about India's engagement in
Afghanistan and its alleged support to militants in Balochistan
province, Clinton said it was in the interest of both countries to
address all issues in an open way.

"Well, we think, very strongly, that it is in both Pakistan's and
India's interest to get back to a dialogue and to try to address every
one of these issues in an open way. It is not in India's interest for
Pakistan to be destabilised," she said and "It is not in Pakistan's
interest for Afghanistan to be destabilised."

"This neighbourhood is now at risk because of the presence of
terrorists who wish to destabilise India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan,"
Clinton said suggesting that Pakistan based terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-
Taeba had staged the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attacks to provoke war
between the two neighbours.

"So the historical issues that, certainly are very significant between
India and Pakistan, have to be addressed by the two countries, because
otherwise you will think the worst of each other, and terrorists will
try to create war between India and Pakistan, because that would
further their gain as they did with Mumbai," she said.

Asked if the US will encourage Pakistan and India to solve old
problems, like Kashmir, Clinton said: "Yes, absolutely." But "we know
that no one on the outside can solve these problems. It can only be
solved by the two countries themselves having that kind of ongoing
dialogue."

"So we've encouraged both Pakistan and India to resume that dialogue
and to talk about everything, including Kashmir, because now the
security of both countries is threatened by these forces of
extremism."

"And I believe that a lot of these terrorist groups are funded,
directed, equipped, and trained by outside forces, not people from
Pakistan, not people from India, but people who wish to see the two
countries at - in conflict, and I think that is so critical to avoid.
And the only way to avoid it is by getting back into a dialogue,"
Clinton said.

In another interview with Watandost.com, she said an international
effort by US, China and European Union could at best be a guarantor
but an impetus for a dialogue must come from the two countries
themselves.

"I think it could be a guarantor or it could be a positive force for
implementation. "But I think that the impetus must come from the two
countries themselves," she said.

"And at some point, both countries might say we've gotten as far as we
can get; therefore we need some support, we need some new energy. But
we have to start with the two countries and with their commitment to
pursuing this dialogue first."

http://www.samaylive.com/news/pak-india-must-talk-about-kashmir-everything-says-clinton/670706.html

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 1:13:06 AM12/17/09

I am not working on Kashmir, says Holbrooke

Published by: Noor Khan
Published: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 at 20:27 IST

Washington: Richard Holbrooke, US Special representative to
Afghanistan and Pakistan, says he is not working on the Kashmir issue
even as he keeps India closely informed of his effort in the region
where "India is hugely important factor."

"Let me be very clear. I am not working on that problem," he said at
an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations, a Washington
think tank, when asked by a Pakistani journalist if the Obama
administration was serious about appointing an adviser to resolve the
Kashmir issue.

"I don't even mention the problem I am not working on. That's a game
when I go to India - and I go to India frequently and I look forward
to going back soon because we keep the Indians very closely informed
of our effort because India is hugely important factor here."

"But, whenever that question comes up, your Indian journalistic
colleagues try to get me to mention the K word and I won't do it
because everybody keeps saying that either I am secretly working on
it, or I ought to be working on it," Holbrooke said.

"Well, they are wrong on both counts. I am not working on that
problem," he reiterated.

"The President (Barack Obama) addressed it very clearly as did the
Secretary of State (Hillary Clinton) in recent interviews and my job
is to work on the civilian side of Afghanistan and Pakistan."

Holbrooke said, "we all know how important that issue is - everyone
knows it. And, it's a long tortured history. But, it's not what I do
and it's not what the countries in the region expect me to do.'

"And, I understand why you ask it, but that's the simple fact," he
added.

http://www.samaylive.com/news/i-am-not-working-on-kashmir-says-holbrooke/670773.html

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 6:58:36 AM12/17/09

Page last updated at 10:23 GMT, Thursday, 17 December 2009

Pakistan drone attack kills two

Hundreds have been killed in drone attacks in the past year

A suspected US missile strike has killed at least two people in an
attack on a Taliban stronghold in north-western Pakistan, officials
say.

The missile is though to have been fired from an unmanned drone
aircraft.

It destroyed the house of a local tribesman in the North Waziristan
tribal region.

The identities of those killed are not immediately known. There have
been numerous attacks by American unmanned aircraft in the area in
recent months.

The areas of North and South Waziristan are a major sanctuary for al-
Qaeda and Taliban militants.

Hundreds of people, many of them civilians, have been killed in drone
attacks in the past year. Top Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud was
among them.

Pakistan has publicly criticised drone attacks, saying they fuel
support for the militants.

The US military does not routinely confirm drone attacks, but the US
armed forces and CIA in Afghanistan are the only forces capable of
deploying drones in the region, analysts say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8417756.stm

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 7:35:32 AM12/17/09

Under U.S. Pressure, Pakistan Balks at Helping on Afghan Taliban
By Tony Karon and Omar Waraich / Islamabad Thursday, Dec. 17, 2009

ENLARGE PHOTO+
U.S. Gen. David Petraeus, left, chairman of the U.S. Central Command,
meets Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani at
General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, Monday, Dec. 14, 2009.

Ministry of Defence / AP

The U.S. troop surge in Afghanistan is unlikely to work unless the
Taliban and its allies are denied the sanctuary they enjoy across the
border in Pakistan. That's why two top U.S. military commanders,
General David Petraeus, the head of U.S. Central Command, and Admiral
Mike Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, visited
Islamabad this week to press their Pakistani counterparts for action
on Afghan Taliban networks based in Pakistani North Waziristan and
around the city of Quetta. But even as the Pakistani military fights a
full-scale counterinsurgency war against the Tehrik i-Taliban Pakistan
(TTP, also known as the Pakistani Taliban), it remains reluctant to
extend its targets to include the groups that most concern the U.S.

(Read "Pakistan: Behind the Waziristan Offensive.")

The argument most often used by Pakistani officials to rebuff
Washington's demands for action against the Afghan-Taliban allied
Haqqani network and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hizb-e-Islami, as well as
the Afghan Taliban leadership core in Quetta, is about resources and
priorities. Pakistan has committed 30,000 troops to its offensive
against the TTP in Swat and South Waziristan, they argue, and it
simply doesn't have the resources to open a second front against the
Haqqani network in North Waziristan (which is also where al-Qaeda's
leaders are believed to be hiding). General Ashfaq Kiyani reportedly
told Petraeus that Pakistan's priority, given its limited resources,
was on the TTP insurgency, which directly challenges the Pakistani
state.

(See pictures of the battle against the Taliban.)

"Don't overstretch us," says Talat Masood, a retired lieutenant
general turned analyst, explaining the army's reaction Washington's
plans for Afghanistan. "If that happens then even the current
operation [against the Afghan Taliban] will be directly affected.
Please understand our predicament. You don't want our current
operations to fail."

Pakistani officials advancing this argument often imply that once the
domestic insurgency has been suppressed, the Army can move on to
tackling the groups that most concern the U.S. But many analysts
believe that Pakistan's reluctance to go after Haqqani, Hekmatyar and
the Afghan Taliban leadership in Quetta is based not only on resources
and priorities, but on the Pakistani military's assessment of its long-
term interests in Afghanistan after the U.S. leaves.

(See pictures of an attack on a Pakistani police academy.)

The fearsome North Waziristan-based network led by ailing former
Afghan mujahedeen commander Jalaluddin Haqqani and run by his son,
Sirajuddin, controls three key Afghan provinces that border Pakistan —
Khost, Paktia, and Paktika provinces. The network has a longstanding
relationship with Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence organization,
and is viewed by many in the Pakistani military as an important
strategic asset in the regional struggle for influence in Afghanistan.
(Some reports suggest that this has become a matter of some debate
within the Pakistani military.) Those who share this view believe that
the group can be separated from al-Qaeda and could form part of a
compromise political solution in Afghanistan which Pakistan hopes to
play a key role in brokering. A similar logic is likely to be at work
with respect to Hekmatyar, and even the Afghan Taliban leadership.
It's a view based on seeing the Afghan Taliban as a Pashtun
nationalist movement challenging the new Tajik-dominated political
order in Kabul — which is also deemed by many in Pakistan to be a
proxy for India. There's also concern that mounting an offensive
against Taliban groups that confine their attacks to Afghanistan will
rouse Pashtun fury on both sides of the border, imperiling Pakistan's
domestic counterinsurgency effort.

A version of that thinking in Pakistani circles was expressed this
week by Munir Akram, Pakistan's former Ambassador to the U.N., writing
in The News: "To eliminate al-Qaeda in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border
region, it must be separated and isolated from the Taliban 'sea' in
which it is currently hiding," argued Akram. "But the U.S. troop surge
will be mainly directed against the Taliban insurgency. It will push
al-Qaeda and the insurgents closer together, making it more difficult
to isolate and target al-Qaeda." He also argued that going after the
Afghan Taliban, which is seen as America's enemy rather than
Pakistan's, will weaken Pakistan's national consensus supporting the
offensive against the TTP.

The immediate focus of discussion between the U.S. and Pakistan is
North Waziristan. While the Pakistan army has cleared swaths of
territory once controlled by the TTP in South Waziristan and claims to
have killed over 600 militants, it has not managed to kill or capture
any of the leadership, who have largely fled north along with many
fighters. That certainly gives Pakistan's army a pretext for pushing
into North Waziristan — as the U.S. is urging — although any such
operation would likely be a limited one, focused on TTP groups and
concentrated in areas where they would avoid clashing with the Haqqani
fighters.

If the Pakistani military declines to go after the Afghan Taliban, the
U.S. faces limited options for turning up the heat. Unable,
politically, to commit ground forces to Pakistani territory, it would
be forced to rely on the remote-controlled drone strikes that have
been effective in killing al-Qaeda leaders in the area. Conflicting
reports in the U.S. media suggest that either President Obama plans to
expand those operations precisely to target the Afghan insurgent
groupings that remain largely unmolested in Pakistan, or that he's
reluctant to authorize strikes that go beyond the targets agreed by
Pakistan, for fear of jeopardizing cooperation and triggering a
political crisis. But if the goal is to reverse the Taliban's momentum
in Afghanistan, the U.S. may feel it has no choice. And that's
certainly the message it wants Pakistan — and the Taliban — to take
from the current conversation.

Read "Why Pakistan Won't Fight the Afghan Taliban."

See pictures of Pakistan's vulnerable north-west passage.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1948207,00.html

Sid Harth

unread,

Dec 17, 2009, 12:56:05 PM12/17/09

Pakistani court verdict not to affect President Zardari: spokesman

www.chinaview.cn 2009-12-17 03:09:07

·Court revoked a law which had granted amnesty to President Zardari,
other officials.
·Presidential spokesman said the court verdict will not affect the
president.
·He added the president of Pakistan enjoys immunity under the
constitution.

ISLAMABAD, Dec. 16 (Xinhua) -- Pakistan's Supreme Court verdict to
revive corruption cases against President Asif Ali Zardari will not
affect the president, presidential spokesman said Wednesday.

Farhatullah Babar, a spokesman for Pakistani President Asif Ali
Zardari talks with media outside the supreme court in Islamabad.
Pakistan's Supreme Court invalidated an amnesty Wednesday shielding
senior government figures from prosecution, opening the door for
corruption cases to be brought against the president's allies.(Xinhua/
AFP Photo)
Photo Gallery>>>

Supreme Court Wednesday revoked a controversial law which had
granted amnesty to President Zardari, several sitting ministers and
thousands of politicians and bureaucrats, who were accused of
corruption, embezzlement, money-laundering, murder and terrorism.

A 17-member judges bench ruled that all corruption cases are
revived against those who were given amnesty under the National
Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO), which was issued by the former
President Pervez Musharraf on Oct. 5, 2007 as part of a political deal
to allow Zardari's wife, former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, to
return from years of exile to Pakistan.

The president of Pakistan enjoys immunity under the constitution
and no criminal proceedings whatsoever shall be initiated against the
president in any court, Presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar told
reporters after the verdict was announced.

Babar said that the ruling Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) respects
the courts and the Supreme Court's verdict.

"The Peoples Party in the past faced challenges and will face in
future," the spokesman said. He said PPP and its leaders are not
afraid of any verdict.

When asked as to why President Zardari does not quit morally, the
spokesman said that 12 years ago no case was proved against Zardari
and the conviction was also overturned by the Supreme Court.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari smiles during his meeting with
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi at Chigi palace in Rome
September 30, 2009.(Xinhua/Reuters File Photo)
Photo Gallery>>>

The NRO, termed as most notorious act of constitution, was
challenged in the Supreme Court and a 17-member bench of the apex
court in a unanimous short verdict revoked the NRO and described as
contrary to the constitution.

In November 2009, the government of Pakistan released the list of
the beneficiaries of the National Reconciliation Ordinance on the
directives of Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani.

State Minister for Law Afzal Sindhu said at a news conference that
a total of 8,041 people including 34 politicians, bureaucrats and
three ambassadors took benefit from the ordinance.

Pakistan's Supreme Court revokes amnesty law

ISLAMABAD, Dec. 16 (Xinhua) -- Pakistan's Supreme Court Wednesday
revoked a controversial law which had granted amnesty to President
Asif Ali Zardari, several sitting ministers and thousands of
politicians and bureaucrats.

The NRO, termed as most notorious act of Constitution, was
challenged in the Supreme Court and a 17-member bench of the apex
court in a late night verdict declared it as null and void and
described it as contrary to the constitution. Full story

No breakthrough in Zardari-Sharif talks: Pakistan media

ISLAMABAD, Oct. 27 (Xinhua) -- A much-awaited meeting between
President Asif Ali Zardari and the opposition Pakistan Muslim League-
Nawaz (PML-N) chief Nawaz Sharif concluded without any breakthrough,
Pakistani media reports said Tuesday.

The Monday meeting was held at an invitation by Zardari but the
two sides were no closer than before to resolving key issues
confronting the nation, the newspaper Dawn said. Full story

Profile: Asif Ali Zardari, winner of Pakistan's presidential election

ISLAMABAD, Sept. 6 (Xinhua) -- Pakistan People's Party (PPP) Co-
chairman Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday won a clear majority in the
presidential election.

Zardari, widower of slain former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto,
secured 479 votes from the total number of 702 votes of the electoral
college consisting of two houses of the parliament and four provincial
assemblies. Full story

Editor: Yan

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/17/content_12658632.htm

Sid Harth

unread,

Dec 17, 2009, 1:05:03 PM12/17/09

Pakistan reborn?
William Dalrymple

Published 21 February 2008

19 commentsPrint versionEmail a friendListenRSSConfounding all
predictions, the Pakistani people have clearly demonstrated that they
want to choose their own rulers and decide their own future. There is
a consensus from Lahore to Karachi

It has not been a good year for Pakistan. President Musharraf's
sacking of the chief justice last spring, the lawyers' protests that
rumbled on throughout the summer and the bloody storming of the Red
Mosque in June, followed by a wave of hideous suicide bombings, all
gave the impression of a country stumbling from bloody crisis to
bloody crisis. By the autumn it had grown even worse. The military
defeats suffered by the Pakistani army at the hands of pro-Taliban
rebels in Waziristan, the declaration of a state of emergency and,
finally, the assassination of Benazir Bhutto led many to predict that
Pakistan was stumbling towards full-scale civil war and possibly even
disintegration.

All this has of course been grist for the mill for the Pakistan-
bashers. Martin Amis, typical of the current rash of instant experts
on Islam, wrote recently: "We may wonder how the Islamists feel when
they compare India to Pakistan, one a burgeoning democratic
superpower, the other barely distinguishable from a failed state." In
the run-up to the elections, the Washington Post, among many other
commentators, was predicting that the poll would lead to a major
international crisis.

That the election went ahead with no more violence and ballot-rigging
than is considered customary in south Asian polls, and that a new
government will apparently come to power peacefully, unopposed by
Musharraf or the army, should now give pause for thought and a calmer
reassessment of the country that many have long written off as a
basket case.

Certainly, there is no question that during the past few years, and
more pressingly since the death of Benazir Bhutto on 27 December last
year, Pakistan has been struggling with an existential crisis. At the
heart of this lay the central question: what sort of country did
Pakistanis want? Did they want a western-style liberal democracy, as
envisaged by Pakistan's founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah? An Islamic
republic like Mullah Omar's Afghanistan? Or a military-ruled junta of
the sort created by Generals Ayub Khan, Zia and Musharraf, and which
has ruled Pakistan for 34 of its 60 years of existence?

That question now seems to have been resolved, at least temporarily.
Like most other people given the option, Pakistanis clearly want the
ability to choose their own rulers, and to determine their own future.
The country I saw over the past few days on a long road trip from
Lahore in the Punjab down through rural Sindh to Karachi was not a
failed state, nor anything even approaching the "most dangerous
country in the world".

It is true that frequent shortages of electricity made the country
feel a bit like Britain during the winter of discontent, and I was
told at one point that I should not continue along certain roads near
the Bhutto stronghold of Larkana as there were dacoits (highwaymen)
ambushing people after dark. But by and large, the countryside I
passed through was calm, and not obviously less prosperous-looking
than its subcontinental neighbour. It was certainly a far cry from the
terminal lawlessness and instability of post-occupation Iraq or
Afghanistan.

The infrastructure of the country is still in many ways better than
that of India, and Pakistan still has the best airports and road
network in the region. As for the economy, it may be in difficulties,
with fast-rising inflation and shortages of gas, electricity and
flour; but over the past few years the Pakistani economy has been
growing almost as strongly as that of India. You can see the effects
everywhere: in 2003 the country had fewer than three million cellphone
users; today there are almost 50 million. Car ownership has been
increasing at roughly 40 per cent a year since 2001; foreign direct
investment has risen from $322m in 2001 to $3.5bn in 2006.

Pakistan is clearly not a country on the verge of civil war. Certainly
it is a country at the crossroads, with huge economic and educational
problems, hideous inequalities and serious unresolved questions about
its future. There is much confusion and disillusion. There is also
serious civil unrest, suicide bombings and an insurgency spilling out
of the tribal areas on the Afghan border. But judging by the
conversations I had, it is also a resilient country that now appears
to recognise democracy as its best hope. On my recent travels I found
an almost unanimous consensus that the mullahs should keep to their
mosques and the military should return to their barracks, like their
Indian counterpart. Much violence and unrest no doubt lie ahead. But
Pakistan is not about to fall apart.

* * *

Elections in south Asia are treated by the people of the region as
operating on a quite different basis from those in the west. In
Pakistan, as in India, elections are not primarily about ideology or
manifesto promises; instead, they are really about power and
patronage.

For most voters, elections are about choosing candidates who can
outbid their rivals by making a string of local promises that the
electors hope they will honour once they get into office. Typically, a
parliamentary candidate will go to a village and make promises or give
money to one of the village elders, who will then distribute it among
his bradari, or clan, which will then vote for the candidate en bloc.
To win an election, the most important thing is to win over the elder
of the most powerful clan in each village. As well as money, the elder
might ask for various favours: a new tarmac road to the village or gas
connections for his cousins. All this costs the candidate a
considerable sum of money, which it is understood he must then recoup
through corruption when he gets into office; this is why corruption is
rarely an important election issue in Pakistan: instead, it is
believed to be be an indispensable part of the system.

According to the conventional wisdom in Pakistan, only one thing can
overrule loyalty to a clan, and that is loyalty to a zamindar (feudal
landowner). Democracy has never thrived in Pakistan in part because
landowning has historically been the social base from which
politicians emerge, especially in rural areas. Benazir Bhutto was from
a feudal family in Sindh; so is Asif Zardari, her husband and current
co-chairman of the Pakistan People's Party (PPP), as also is Makhdoom
Amin Fahim, the most likely candidate for prime minister. The educated
middle class - which in India gained control in 1947 - and even more
so the rural peasantry, are still largely excluded from Pakistan's
political process. There are no Pakistani equivalents of Indian
peasant leaders such as Laloo Prasad Yadav, the village cowherd-turned-
former chief minister of Bihar, or Mayawati, the Dalit (untouchable)
leader and current chief minister of Uttar Pradesh.

Instead, in many of the more backward parts of Pakistan, the local
feudal landowner could usually expect his people to vote for his
chosen candidate. As the writer Ahmed Rashid put it, "In some
constituencies if the feudals put up their dog as a candidate, that
dog would get elected with 99 per cent of the vote."

Such loyalty could be enforced. Many of the biggest zamindars are said
to have private prisons, and most of them have private armies. In the
more remote and lawless areas there is also the possibility that the
zamindars and their thugs will bribe or threaten polling agents, then
simply stuff the ballot boxes with thousands of votes for themselves.

Yet this is now clearly beginning to change, and this change has been
give huge impetus by the national polls. The election results show
that the old stranglehold on Pakistani politics that used to reduce
national polls to a kind of elective feudalism may finally be
beginning to break down. In Jhang district of the rural Punjab, for
example, as many as ten of the 11 winning candidates are from middle-
class backgrounds: sons of revenue officers, senior policemen,
functionaries in the civil bureaucracy and so on, rather than the
usual zamindars.

The Punjab is the richest and most developed part of rural Pakistan;
but even in backward Sindh there are signs of change, too. Khairpur,
on the banks of the Indus, is the heartland of exactly the sort of
unreformed local landowners who epitomise the stereotype painted by
metropolitan Pakistani sophisticates when they roll their eyes and
talk about "the feudals". Yet even here, members of the local middle
class have just stood successfully for election against the local
zamindars.

Nafisa Shah is the impeccably middle-class daughter of a local lawyer
promoted in the PPP by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in the 1970s; she is
currently at Oxford doing a PhD in honour killings. She was standing
in the same constituency as Sadruddin Shah, who is often held up as
the epitome of feudal excess, and who went electioneering with five
pick-up trucks full of his private militia, armed with pump-action
shotguns.

As you drive along the bypass his face, complete with Dick Dastardly
moustache, sneers down from hoardings placed every 50 yards along the
road. In the past week the local press had been full of stories of his
men shooting at crowds of little boys shouting pro-Benazir slogans.
Shah was standing, as usual, for no fewer than three different seats;
this time, however, to the amazement of locals, the PhD student and
her PPP allies have all but wiped out Shah and his fellow candidates
of the PML-Functional, so that Shah himself won only in his own home
town.

Even the most benign feudal lords suffered astonishing reverses. Mian
Najibuddin Owaisi was not just the popular feudal lord of the village
of Khanqah Sharif in the southern Punjab, he was also the sajjada
nasheen, the descendant of the local Sufi saint, and so regarded as a
holy man as well as the local landowner. But recently Najibuddin made
the ill-timed switch from supporting Nawaz Sharif's PML-N to the pro-
Musharraf Q-league. Talking to the people in the bazaar before the
election, his followers announced that they did not like Musharraf,
but they would still vote for their landlord:

"Prices are rising," said Haji Sadiq, the cloth salesman, sitting amid
bolts of textiles. "There is less and less electricity and gas."

"And what was done to Benazir was quite wrong," agreed his friend
Salman.

"But Najib Sahib is our protector," said the haji. "Whatever party he
chooses, we will vote for him. Even the Q-league."

"Why?" I asked.

"Because with him in power we have someone we can call if we are in
trouble with the police, or need someone to speak to the
adminstration," he said.

"When we really need him he looks after us."

"We vote according to local issues only. Who cares about parties?"

Because of Najibuddin's personal popularity, his vote stood up better
than many other pro-Musharraf feudals and he polled 38,000 votes. But
he still lost, to an independent candidate from a non-feudal, middle-
class background named Amir Waran, who took 59,000 votes and ousted
the Owaisi family from control of the constituency for the first time
since they entered politics in the elections of 1975.

* * *

If the power of Pakistan's feudals is beginning to be whittled away,
in the aftermath of these unexpectedly peaceful elections there remain
two armed forces that can still affect the future of democracy in the
country.

Though the religious parties were routed in the election, especially
in the North-West Frontier where the ruling religious MMA alliance was
wiped out by the secular ANP, their gun-wielding brothers in
Waziristan are not in retreat. In recent months these militants have
won a series of notable military victories over the Pakistani army,
and spread their revolt within the settled areas of Pakistan proper.

The two assassination attempts on Benazir - the second one horribly
successful - and the three recent attacks on Musharraf are just the
tip of the iceberg. Every bit as alarming is the degree to which the
jihadis now control much of the north-west of Pakistan, and the Swat
Valley is still smouldering as government troops and jihadis loyal to
the insurgent leader Maulana Fazllullah - aka "Mullah Radio" vie for
control. At the moment, the government seems to have won back the
area, but the insurgent leaders have all escaped and it remains to be
seen how far the new government can stem this growing rebellion.

The second force that has shown a remarkable ability to ignore, or
even reverse, the democratic decisions of the Pakistani people is of
course the army. Even though Musharraf's political ally the PML-Q has
been heavily defeated, leaving him vulnerable to impeachment by the
new parliament, the Pakistani army is still formidably powerful.
Normally countries have an army; in Pakistan, as in Burma, the army
has a country. In her recent book Military, Inc, the political
scientist Ayesha Siddiqa attempted to put figures on the degree to
which the army controls Pakistan irrespective of who is in power.

Siddiqa estimated, for example, that the army now controls business
assets of roughly $20bn and a third of all heavy manufacturing in the
country; it also owns 12 million acres of public land and up to 7 per
cent of Pakistan's private assets. Five giant conglomerates, known as
"welfare foundations", run thousands of businesses, ranging from
street-corner petrol pumps and sprawling industrial plants to cement
and dredging to the manufacture of cornflakes.

As one human rights activist put it to me, "The army is into every
business in this country. Except hairdressing." The army has
administrative assets, too. According to Siddiqa, military personnel
have "taken over all and every department in the bureaucracy - even
the civil service academy is now headed by a major general, while the
National School of Public Policy is run by a lieutenant general. The
military have completely taken over not just the bureaucracy but every
arm of the executive."

But, for all this power, Musharraf has now comprehensively lost the
support of his people - a dramatic change from the situation even
three years ago when a surprisingly wide cross-section of the country
seemed prepared to tolerate military rule. The new army chief, General
Ashfaq Kayani, who took over when Musharraf stepped down from his
military role last year, seems to recognise this and has issued
statements about his wish to pull the army back from civilian life,
ordering his soldiers to stay out of politics and give up jobs in the
bureaucracy.

Though turnout in the election was low, partly due to fear of suicide
bombings, almost everyone I talked to was sure that democracy was the
best answer to Pakistan's problems, and believed that neither an
Islamic state nor a military junta would serve their needs so well.
The disintegration of the country, something being discussed widely
only a week ago, now seems a distant prospect. Rumours of Pakistan's
demise, it seems, have been much exaggerated.

William Dalrymple's latest book, "The Last Mughal: the Fall of a
Dynasty (Delhi, 1857)", published by Bloomsbury, won the 2007 Duff
Cooper Prize for History

Timeline to the vote

6 October 2007 General Musharraf wins most votes in presidential
election. The Supreme Court says no winner can be announced formally
until it rules whether the general was eligible to stand while he was
still army chief

18 October Exiled former premier Benazir Bhutto returns to Pakistan

3 November Musharraf declares emergency rule - caretaker government is
sworn in

9 November Bhutto placed briefly under house arrest

28 November Musharraf resigns as army chief. Sworn in as president for
second term

29 November Chief election commissioner announces elections are to be
held on 8 January

15 December State of emergency lifted

27 December Benazir Bhutto is assassinated at rally near Rawalpindi

2 January 2008 Elections postponed till 18 February

18 February Parliamentary elections. Low turnout amid fears of
violence

19 February Musharraf's party concedes defeat

This article was originally published on 21 February 2008 in the issue
Pakistan reborn

More related to Pakistan
Missing you already
By Fatima Bhutto
12 March

Pilgrimage to nowhere
By Fatima Bhutto
08 January

Musharraf's departure will not bring peace
By Ziauddin Sardar
21 August

Nurturing democracy in Pakistan
By Alex Bigham
14 January

See all in Pakistan

19 comments from readers

viren naik
21 February 2008 at 10:55
Well! No sooner the Democracy started winning in pakistan ..the ants
started walking up George Bush's pants...what does this man
want? ..First he propogates Democracy in pakistan and now he wants the
dictator to stay very much in power at the cost of democracy...

It is becoming clearly evident now that the Bush regime and his
countries policies have turned out to be the most evil on both sides
of the 20th Century..but he must be reminded that the civilisation of
the sub continent is much much older than him ..looks we will now have
to ask another Gandhi to arise and take this western antagonist by the
horns ..and may be Mush can prove to be the nemesis of USA..well you
have been warned ..now watch this space

viren naik

S. hussain
21 February 2008 at 19:02
So lengthy was the article that I found it relatively difficult to go
through it comprehensively. But its gist, as I have comprehended, is
that the president must keep running his office no matter how
tremendous the pressure is. Polls published recently showed something
that was known to every single Pakistani, but not officially in
knowledge of President's allies in the West and to some extent to
himself. That only 16 per cent of the 170 million Pakistanis want him
to stay must make it precisely clear that he should gracefully quit.
Another word that could only be understood by having a look at the
behaviour of Musharaf's aides in Pakistans and allies in outside world
is hypocrisy. We ordinary Pakistanis want the sanctamonious souls,
totally unaware of Pakistan's politics, must review their loathsome
policy that only promotes hatred. We no more want to be deluded by
likes of those at the helm in West.

S. Hussain

Riaz Ahmad
22 February 2008 at 01:28
Indeed an accurate and objective assessment of reality in Pakistan.
William forgot to point out that for decades, it was USA that choked
the economy of Pakistan through sanctions. Also William forgot to
point out that democarcy would have taken route in Pakistan, had USA
left Pakistan alone to rule itself. Famous saying in Pakistan, 'three
A's rule Pakistan', America, Army and Allah.

nawawimohamad
22 February 2008 at 04:01
With no clear majority for any of the politcal parties, Pakistan
politics will never reach a stable phase. The army has to make another
coup. It is the nature of the Pakistanis that they are never satisfied
and contented in their lives because the country is so poor thus there
are a lot of frustrations and the political turmoil is infact the
safety valve for the country. Moreover they don't have Britney Spears
or Lindsay Lohan thus the politicians become their idols.

sami
23 February 2008 at 04:46
i was a member of (FFEN) observed in NA 45 tribe area in khyber agecy.
the security situation was so tuff .our team also noted some challenge
votes which contain 5 were men and one case of woman. but far beyond
area the government had showed their unfairness and full the boxes of
votes in maragoro area part of khyber agency. and when finally the
process of counting came so abrahim a candidate of afridi area. and
opposite of him the former MNA noor ul haq before total counting of
vote the government declared the victory of former MNA , and a bad
kind of situation from government side to produced clashes between
afridi and shinware area, the press conference from abrhim candidat of
NA 45and so much struggle but no step was taken against this,

accordind to a source the (PA) of khyber agency told that secret
agencies of pakistan is like the former MNA and so thats the last
announceing from the government , our team have a alot of arguments
from this point of view . we have also send a report to elelction
commission but there was no action from that side , please contact
with me for furher details.,

hanna
25 February 2008 at 10:25
I am closely monitoring every headlines that happened in Pakistan, and
i noticed that the man possessing the presidential sit is tyrant. He
should uphold the rule of law and the equilibrium between power and
human rights... thus, he should resign and hand over the authority to
those who are capable of discharging the office in such a way that
life and liberty is protected.

Serosch
25 February 2008 at 12:54
Mr Benazzir Bhutto is a crook, Mr Sharif is also a crook, President
Mushy is a traitor who colluded with a foreign Government (USA) to
murder and torture Pakistani nationals.

The US military and secret service continue to operate in Pakistan,
Pakistan foreign policy is decided at the US Embassy, Saudi Arabia
continues to channel funding to the religious nutters, Israeli and
Indian secret services continue to ferment sectarian violence in
Pakistan.

In order to combat the actions of those mentioned above, Pakistan
needs to forge even closer ties with China, it needs closer
cooperation with Iran and Turkey as well as other non-Arab Muslim
states.

Pakistan must say NO to Arab and US money and influence, it needs to
remove the restraints placed upon its security services so that they
can tackle the terrorism imported to Pakistan by the Afghans, Zionists
and Indians.

Ed Cherlin
25 February 2008 at 21:31
Democracy in the US is also unfinished business. Americans tend to
forget (or in many cases never knew) that the US went through its own
long period of patronage politics, stealing of elections, and several
episodes of virulent government repression (from the Alien & Sedition
laws through the Japanese internment camps and the McCarthy witch
hunts to the present Patriot Act, repeal of Habeas Corpus, official
torture, and so on), though never of outright military rule. And
slavery and civil war, of course.

We, the people, need to cut Pakistan some slack, and get our
government to do the same.

"Those who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary
security deserve neither liberty nor security." --Benjamin Franklin

"Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." --Thomas Jefferson

ikb714
28 February 2008 at 01:37
Dear Sir/Madam,

Democracy as a system of governance and interest representation
demands respect for dissent and opposition. It recognizes the
principle of majority rule and guarantees protection of minorities.
Democracy also builds faith in electoral contestation to gain public
office and gives legitimacy to political parties as primary
instruments for acquisition and transfer of power from one set of
individuals to another.

Unfortunately, despite the significance of the above elements only the
power full elite are fitted in power and Pakistani are always left at
the mercy of circumstances. As this policy is denial of right of
Pakistani people to rule their country according to their aspiration
and desire to built this country, which can provide equal opportunity
to all without any discrimination for the establishment of welfare
society.

Only the society based on tolerance, equality and justice can be the
real guarantee for the prosperous and strong Pakistan there for your
intention is invited to the crucial movement which could be the point
of distraction or disaster. Change of socio-political system is
inevitable to empower the Pakistani at grass route level for rapid
development.

See www.idp.org.pk

Ilyas khan Baloch

sky.heart4u
28 February 2008 at 12:53
hi its masood!

Infact , i was really admire the opinion of William .More or less he
has given an accurate assessment .One thing i would like to add that
people of Pakistan now want to get rid of the bruttle rule of the so
called president Musharaff's .

May this wish become true very soon!

richardwilsonma
28 February 2008 at 20:25
In a front page subsidiary headline the NY Times called the election
"a blow to the US". Yet US leaders and their mainstream press
constantly tell the American peoiple that their role is to bring
democracy to the world. If this is true, how can the vote by a
friendly people in a dmocratic election to change an unpopular
government possibly be a blow to US? Indeed the result should be
welcomes as showing that democracy is more deeply rooted in APkistan
than we had feared.

Richard Wilson wil...@fas.harvard.edu

bkt
02 March 2008 at 02:14
Sorry Riaz Ahmad, I didn't quite get "it was USA that choked the
economy of Pakistan through sanctions" We had economic sanctions after
the 1998 nuclear blast which were gone 3 years later, and we had
military but not economic sanctions after the 1965 war.

I agree with William D that democracy has come through the land owning
classes. If only the PPP had carried out the land reforms in Sindh
among the PPP, we might have grass roots democracy today and probably
no Bhuttos, no Zardaris and no PhD students from Oxford. Some of the
biggest landowners in Sindh are from the PPP itself. Have a land
reform and you'll get real democracy.

irfanqadri
04 March 2008 at 15:55
Now at least American leaders should stop supporting dictatorship in
Pakistan anymore and stop calling " our close friends" to all in power
dictators if they are real supporters to democracy, otherwise their
multi-faced attitude is pretty obvious to the civilized and awared
world. They should start wiping the blood of thousands of innocent
muslims on their hands in the name of so called war on terror.

nazir pitafi
05 March 2008 at 15:44
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY CONGRATULATIONS TO MR BILAWAL BHUTTO ZARDARI, ASIF
ALI ZARDARI AND ALL OTHER WORKERS OF PPP . I HOHE THAT THE INSHAULLAH
MR BILAWAL WILL CONTINUE PROGRAMME OF SHAHEED BE NAZIR BHUTTO.

nazli
08 March 2008 at 22:02
Nazir Pitafi: Some some never cease to amaze, and you must be among
them. Congratulations to Mr. Bilawal Butto Zardari for what? For being
a Mr. Nobody for Pakistan? And congratulations to Mr. Asif Ali Zardari
for what? For looting and plundering Pakistan at every opportunity,
and in a very blatant fashion? And what was the "prgramme" of shaheed
Benazir Bhutto, expect for "secure my kursi?"

For a change, think about the land Pakistan, and not about the selfish
landlords.

suhail nasir
10 March 2008 at 11:14
I have a word of advise for the people of United States,"please do not
support Military rulers".In Pakistan it is about time that you stop
supporting Mushraf who has been rejected by the people of
Pakistan.Actually he was never accepted by People of Pakistan.He was
only serving the interest of Bush government to prolong his ILLEGAL
rule.

inamhaque
10 March 2008 at 18:16
Involvement of USA in Pakistan affairs is a worry to me. Pakistan
Politician, who are now in Power, have a history of corruption and
have been indicted in Pakistan and other nations are the second worry.
Have they been bought out by the US politicians. The other worry is
that voting public can be bought (by money from the the landowners and
Party leaders). Now the time will tell, if Pakistan will move in the
right direction (It need not be a western style democracy) then it has
a good chance to succeed in rapid time. If the present civilian
leadership follow the road previously taken, then the cycle will
repeat and it will then be a "failed state". The last thing: Pakistan
should aim for Secular government and invest heavily in its education
and infrastucture, even if has to print money.

Inam Haque

Wajid Hasan
11 March 2008 at 01:06
Musharraf -- 'Mr 70 per cent'

Well done, William Dalrymple, for exposing the institutionalized graft
that has become the military’s business empire in Pakistan. Both the
Guardian and The Economist also recently reported that up to 70% of US
aid to Pakistan had gone 'missing'.

This may come as a shock to many readers - and to Westerners
generally. But it is, alas, no surprise in Pakistani political
circles. We know too well how national and foreign funds have been
pilfered -- individually and institutionally -- to fill the coffers of
the dictator and his friends. It is high time it was mentioned that
corruption under Musharraf has reached endemic proportions. He so
enjoys giving interviews where he takes credit for the economic
growth, as he calls it, and financial probity during his time in
office. One can only wonder at gall of the man who revels in launching
trumped-up court cases against his political opponents alleging
‘corruption’, when his own team are going for Olympic Gold doing
exactly what their opponents are accused of doing! It was Goebbels,
wasn’t it, who said: “Tell a big lie, or they won’t believe you”?

Various Pakistani media and academics have been exposing this high
Praetorian corruption by senior military ranks as well as the
institutional bid to expand their enormous corporate sector holdings
and investments. For the full story read Ayesha Siddiqua's book,
‘Military Inc.’.

Perhaps the most high-profile thefts have been the massive graft from
the US$11.5 billion worth of aid received by Pakistan since 9/11; and
the swindling of the aid the world had rushed to Pakistan for the 2005
earthquake victims.

But there is a bigger picture. Millions have been added to their haul
since Lord Patten wrote this in the Wall Street Journal of 10 May
2006, under the headline, "What ails Afghanistan", (I quote): “So much
has been grabbed by the military that it will take years just to
catalogue it.

He goes on, “The military has acquired vast tracts of state-owned land
at nominal rates; its leaders dominate businesses and industries,
ranging from banking to cereal factories. Their control of the economy
has grown so great, it will present an enormous challenge to any
future democratically-elected government."

What will it take for Washington to wake up to where all its money has
gone? While Musharraf is no doubt one of the main beneficiaries, it is
time questions were asked and fingers pointed at his gang of looters,
to probe their 'non-army assets. For squeaky-clean they are not. His
prodigious lifestyle and assets certainly didn't come from salaries as
President and army chief. The logical nickname for Musharraf' and his
henchmen must, in fact, be 'Mr 70% per cent'. No-one can possibly say
he doesn’t think big.

Despite his Kings Party, the PML-Q, being roundly defeated at the
polls on 18th February, and many of his most senior ministers losing
their seats in a massive verdict against him, Musharraf still cannot
bring himself to relinquish power. He has held control of Pakistan's
fortunes for nearly a decade, yet somehow he feels his services are
still wanted. To do what, exactly? Opinion polls show that some 80% of
the population want him to go; and 60% of Pakistanis feel his regime
was involved in the assassination of his arch political rival former
Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. Everyone can see, except he himself,
that this SAS-trained solider is well past his sell-by date. Pakistan
and the world have moved on – and left him behind.

His very presidency is ultra vires, that is, constitutionally
illegitimate, and he may yet face impeachment proceedings and possible
capital punishment. As The Economist put it recently: 'Musharraf's
legitimacy is in shreds. It would be better for all if he were to quit
now, and were allowed to do so with dignity, and some honour'.

Amen to that, for the sake of Pakistan and for the overwhelming
majority of her population.

Yours faithfully,

WAJID SHAMSUL HASAN

Former Pakistan High Commissioner to London

London NW3

Serosch
20 March 2008 at 08:54
Nazli, well said. The whole Bhutto/Zardari clan are a bunch of theives
and traitors.

It is time the people were awakened and stopped following this sort.
Also the US does control Pakistan, most of Pakistan's policies are
made at the US embassy.

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2008/02/pakistan-army-musharraf#reader-comments

Sid Harth

unread,

Dec 17, 2009, 1:09:35 PM12/17/09

The last Mughal and a clash of civilisations
William Dalrymple

Published 16 October 2006

East and west face each other across a divide that some call a
religious war. Suicide jihadis take what they see as defensive action
and innocent people are killed. But this is 1857. William Dalrymple on
lessons from the Raj for the neo-cons

At 4pm on a hazy, warm, sticky winter's day in Rangoon in November
1862, soon after the end of the monsoon, a shrouded corpse was
escorted by a small group of British soldiers to an anonymous grave at
the back of a walled prison enclosure. The enclosure lay overlooking
the muddy brown waters of the Rangoon River, a little downhill from
the great gilt spire of the Shwedagon Pagoda. Around it lay the newly
built cantonment area of the port - a pilgrimage town that had been
seized, burned and occupied by the British only ten years earlier.

The bier of the State Prisoner - as the deceased was referred to - was
accompanied by his two sons and an elderly mullah. The ceremony was
brief. The British authorities had made sure not only that the grave
was already dug, but that quantities of lime were on hand to guarantee
the rapid decay of both bier and body. When the shortened funeral
prayers had been recited, the earth was thrown over the lime, and the
turf carefully replaced to disguise the place of burial. A week later
the British Commissioner, Captain H N Davis, wrote to London to report
what had passed, adding:

Have since visited the remaining State Prisoners - the very scum of
the reduced Asiatic harem; found all correct . . . The death of the ex-
King may be said to have had no effect on the Mahomedan part of the
populace of Rangoon, except perhaps for a few fanatics who watch and
pray for the final triumph of Islam. A bamboo fence surrounds the
grave, and by the time the fence is worn out, the grass will again
have properly covered the spot, and no vestige will remain to
distinguish where the last of the Great Moghuls rests.

The state prisoner Davis referred to was Bahadur Shah II, known from
his pen-name as Zafar (meaning, paradoxically, "victory"). Zafar was
the last Mughal emperor, and a direct descendant of Genghis Khan. He
was born in 1775, when the British were still a modest coastal power
in India, and in his lifetime his dynasty had been reduced to
insignificance, while the British transformed themselves from
vulnerable traders into an aggressively expansionist military force.

Zafar came late to the throne, succeeding his father only in his mid-
sixties, when it was already impossible to reverse the political
decline of the Mughals. Despite this he created around him in Delhi a
court of great brilliance. He was one of the most talented, tolerant
and likeable of his dynasty: a skilled calligrapher, a profound writer
on Sufism and an inspired creator of gardens. He was also a serious
mystical poet, and through his patronage there took place one of the
greatest literary renaissances in Indian history.

Then, on a May morning in 1857, 300 mutinous sepoys from Meerut rode
into Delhi, massacred every Christian man, woman and child they could
find, and declared Zafar to be their emperor. Zafar was no friend of
the British; but he was not a natural insurgent, either. He suspected
from the start that the uprising - a chaotic and officerless army of
unpaid peasant soldiers set against the forces of the world's greatest
military power - was doomed.

The great Mughal capital, in the middle of a remarkable cultural
flowering, was turned overnight into a battleground.

The Siege of Delhi was a fight to the death between two powers,
neither of whom could retreat. Finally, on 14 September 1857, the
British assaulted and took the city, sacking the Mughal capital and
massacring swathes of the population. "The orders went out to shoot
every soul," recorded Edward Vibart, a 19-year-old British officer.
"It was literally murder . . . The women were all spared but their
screams, on seeing their husbands and sons butchered, were most
painful . . . I feel no pity, but when some old grey bearded man is
brought and shot before your very eyes, hard must be that man's heart
I think who can look on with indifference . . ."

Delhi was left an empty ruin. Those city-dwellers who survived were
driven out into the countryside to fend for themselves. Though the
royal family had surrendered peacefully, most of the emperor's 16 sons
were tried and hanged, while three were shot in cold blood, having
first freely given up their arms, then been told to strip naked. "In
24 hours I disposed of the principal members of the house of Timur the
Tartar," Captain William Hodson wrote to his sister the following day.
"I am not cruel, but I confess I did enjoy the opportunity of ridding
the earth of these wretches."

A fascinating relationship

In 2002, researching in the National Archive in Delhi for a book on
the life of Zafar, I found a remarkable collection of 20,000
previously untranslated Urdu and Persian documents that enabled me to
resurrect in some detail the life of the city before and during the
siege. Cumulatively, the stories contained in these Mutiny papers
allowed the great uprising of 1857 to be seen not in terms of
nationalism, imperialism, orientalism or other such abstractions, but
as a tragic human event for ordinary individuals whose fate it was to
be caught up accidentally in one of the great upheavals of history.
Public, political and national disasters, after all, consist of a
multitude of private, domestic and individual tragedies.

The Last Mughal, published this month, continues the story I began in
White Mughals - the story of the fast-changing relationship between
the British and the Indians, and especially Muslim Indians - in the
late 18th and the mid-19th century.

During the 18th century it was almost as common for westerners to take
on the customs, and even the religions, of India, as the reverse.
These white Mughals had responded to their travels in India by
shedding their Britishness like an unwanted skin, adopting Indian
dress, studying Indian philo sophy, taking harems and copying the ways
of the Mughal governing class they came to replace - what Salman
Rushdie, talking of modern multiculturalism, has called
"chutnification". By the end of the 18th century one-third of the
British men in India were leaving their possessions to Indian wives.

In Delhi, the period was symbolised by Sir David Ochterlony, the
British Resident, who arrived in the city in 1803: every evening, all
13 of his Indian wives went around Delhi in a procession behind their
husband, each on the back of her own elephant. For all the humour of
this image, in such mixed households, Islamic customs and
sensitivities were clearly understood and respected. One letter, for
example, recorded that "Lady Ochterlony has applied for leave to make
the Hadge to Mecca". Indeed, Ochterlony strongly considered bringing
up his children as Muslims, and when his children by his chief wife,
Mubarak Begum, had grown up, he adopted a child from one of the
leading Delhi Muslim families.

This was not an era when notions of clashing civilisations would have
made sense. The world that Ochterlony inhabited was more hybrid, and
had far less clearly defined ethnic, national and religious borders,
than we have been conditioned to expect. It is certainly unfamiliar to
anyone who accepts the usual caricature of the Englishman in India,
presented repeatedly in films and television dramas, of the narrow-
minded sahib dressing for dinner in the jungle.

Some 200 years before Zadie Smith, Monica Ali and Hari Kunzru all made
it into the bestseller lists, and multiculturalism became a buzzword
capable of waking Norman Tebbit and the Tory undead from their coffins
at party conferences, the India of the East India Company was an
infinitely more culturally, racially and religiously chutnified place
than the most mixed areas of London today.

Imperial arrogance

Why did the relatively easy interracial and inter-religious
relationships so evident during the time of Ochterlony give way to the
hatred and racism of the 19th-century Raj? How did the close clasp of
two civilisations turn into a bitter clash?

Two things put paid to the easy coexistence. One was the rise of
British power: in a few years the British had defeated not only the
French, but all their other Indian rivals; and, in a manner not unlike
the Americans after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the changed balance
of power quickly led to undisguised imperial arrogance. No longer was
the west prepared to study and learn from the subcontinent; instead,
Thomas Macaulay came to speak for a whole generation of Englishmen
when he declared that "a single shelf of a good European library was
worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia".

The other factor was the ascendancy of evangelical Christianity, and
the profound change in social, sexual and racial attitudes that this
brought about. The wills written by dying East India Company servants
show that the practice of cohabiting with Indian bibis quickly
declined: they turn up in one in three wills between 1780 and 1785,
but are present in only one in four between 1805 and 1810. By the
middle of the century, they have all but disappeared. In half a
century, a vibrantly multicultural world refracted back into its
component parts; children of mixed race were corralled into what
became in effect a new Indian caste - the Anglo-Indians - who were
left to run the railways, posts and mines.

Like our 19th-century forebears, today we have sometimes assumed that
liberalism and progress are unstoppable forces in society, and that
the longer the nations and religions of the world all live together,
the more prejudices will cease to exist and we shall come instead to
respect each other's faiths and ways of living. The world since 11
September 2001 has shaken our confidence in this, and led to a
reassessment (at least in some quarters) of assumptions about the
melting pot of British multiculturalism. Likewise, Company India moved
from a huge measure of racial intermixing in the late 18th century to
a position of complete racial apartheid by the 1850s.

Pre-emptive action

Just like it is today, this process of pulling apart - of failing to
talk, listen or trust each other - took place against the background
of an increasingly aggressive and self-righteous west, facing ever
stiffer Islamic resistance to western interference. For, as anyone who
has ever studied the story of the rise of the British in India will
know well, there is nothing new about the neo-cons. The old game of
regime change - of installing puppet regimes, propped up by the west
for its own political and economic ends - is one that the British had
well mastered by the late 18th century.

By the 1850s, the British had progressed from aggressively removing
independent-minded Muslim rulers, such as Tipu Sultan, who refused to
bow before the will of the hyperpower, to destabilising and then
annexing even the most pliant Muslim states. In February 1856, the
British unilaterally annexed the prosperous kingdom of Avadh (or
Oudh), using the excuse that the nawab, Wajid Ali Shah, a far-from-
belligerent dancer and epicure, was "debauched".

By this time, other British officials who believed in a "forward"
policy of pre-emptive action were nursing plans to abolish Zafar's
Mughal court in Delhi, and to impose not just British laws and
technology on India, but also British values, in the form of
Christianity. The missionaries reinforced Muslim fears, increasing
opposition to British rule and creating a constituency for the rapidly
multiplying jihadis. And, in turn, "Wahhabi conspiracies" strengthened
the conviction of the evangelical Christians that a "strong attack"
was needed to take on the "Muslim fanatics".

The eventual result of this clash of rival fundamentalisms came in
1857 with the cataclysm of the Great Mutiny. Of the 139,000 sepoys of
the Bengal army, all but 7,796 turned against their British masters,
and the great majority headed straight to Zafar's court in Delhi, the
centre of the storm. Although it had many causes and reflected many
deeply held political and economic grievances - particularly the
feeling that the heathen foreigners were interfering in the most
intimate way with a part of the world to which they were entirely
alien - the uprising was articulated as a war of religion, and
especially as a defensive action against the rapid inroads that
missionaries, Christian schools and Christian ideas were making in
India, combined with a more generalised fight for freedom from
occupation and western interference.

Although the great majority of the sepoys were Hindus, in Delhi a flag
of jihad was raised in the principal mosque, and many of the
insurgents described themselves as mujahedin or jihadis. Indeed, by
the end of the siege, after a significant proportion of the sepoys had
melted away, hungry and dis pirited, the proportion of jihadis in
Delhi grew to be about half of the total rebel force, and included a
regiment of "suicide ghazis" from Gwalior who had vowed never to eat
again and to fight until they met death at the hands of the kafirs,
"for those who have come to die have no need for food".

One of the causes of unrest, according to a Delhi source, was that
"the British had closed the madrasas". These words had no resonance to
the Marxist historians of the 1960s who looked for secular and
economic grievances to explain the uprising. Now, in the aftermath of
the attacks of 11 September 2001 and 7 July 2005, they are phrases we
understand all too well. Words such as jihad scream out of the dusty
pages of the Urdu manuscripts, demanding attention.

There is a direct link between the jihadis of 1857 and those we face
today. The reaction of the educated Delhi Muslims after 1857 was to
reject both the west and the gentle Sufi traditions of the late Mughal
emperors, whom they tended to regard as semi-apostate puppets of the
British; instead, they attempted to return to what they regarded as
pure Islamic roots.

With this in mind, disillusioned refugees from Delhi founded a mad
rasa in the Wahhabi style at Deoband, in Delhi, that went back to
Koranic basics and rigorously stripped out anything European from the
curriculum. One hundred and forty years later, it was out of Deobandi
madrasas in Pakistan that the Taliban emerged to create the most
retrograde Islamic regime in modern history, a regime that in turn
provided the crucible from which emerged al-Qaeda, and the most
radical Islamist counter-attack the modern west has yet had to face.

Today, west and east again face each other uneasily across a divide
that many see as a religious war. Suicide jihadis fight what they see
as a defensive action against their Christian enemies, and again
innocent civilians are slaughtered. As before, western evangelical
Christian politicians are apt to cast their opponents and enemies in
the role of "incarnate fiends" and simplistically conflate any armed
resistance to invasion and occupation with "pure evil". Again, western
countries, blind to the effect their foreign policies have on the
wider world, feel aggrieved and surprised to be attacked, as they see
it, by mindless fanatics.

And yet, as we have seen in our own time, nothing so easily
radicalises a people against us, or undermines the moderate aspect of
Islam, as aggressive western intrusion in the east: the histories of
Islamic fundamentalism and western imperialism have often been
closely, and dangerously, intertwined. In a curious but very concrete
way, the extremists and fundamentalists of both faiths have needed
each other to reinforce each other's prejudices and hatreds. The venom
of one provides the lifeblood of the other.

There are clear lessons here. For, in the celebrated words of Edmund
Burke - himself a fierce critic of British aggression in India - those
who fail to learn from history are destined for ever to repeat it.

William Dalrymple is the India correspondent of the New Statesman. His
book "The Last Mughal: the fall of a dynasty (Delhi 1857)" is
published by Bloomsbury (£25)

6 comments from readers

sarfaraz
07 December 2006 at 12:19
Excellent book.

British were unlike other conquerers.The conquest was exploitative.Not
much was expected from traders turned administrators.

Yet one feels bad that the king of the land was banished,his palace
razed ,city was levelled ,citizens killed and a civilization
anhilated.All this was done while quoting scriptures.

But i feel that the product cycle of england is in 'cash cow'
phase.The decline will start sooner than later.

They are the masters of the art of living and thriving.

'After life' is not much of concern to them.

If Catholicism was hinderence then take out a variant.

Protestanism.And now Anglican Church has gay bishops.He also quotes
the scriptures.

Thus Diana,an adultress becomes a star in the heaven and the Bible
teachers are banished for speaking out what was written in Bible.

Very wordly wise smart people.

m
19 January 2007 at 22:51
The Madrassas prior to the rebellion of 1857 had a Hinda and Muslim
student body. Persian which was the language of the Moghul court was
taught in Madrassas along with mathematics, history, literature, and
religion. Many a renounced scholar both Hindu and Muslim taught here.
Many if not most of the adminstrators of the Moghul courts who were
mostly Hindu studied in these Madrassas. These were boys from elite
Hindu families who studied at these madrassas in preparation for the
Moghul court. The Madrassas (Persian word for school) thus taught
Duniya (the world) and deen (religion).These madrassas were also the
place which the British zeroed in on afer the rebellion of 1857 as the
places where the rebellion/mutiny had been fomented. After the
rebellion had been crushed the British crushed the madrassas by
cutting of their resouces and curtailing their curriculum to simply
religious teachings. By doing so the British in their endless meddling
and molesting gave birth to the madrassa of today in south asia--which
were emaciated of resources and relegated to teaching religion since
they were not permitted to teach anything else. And without the
benefit of educated teachers even for religion these institutions
morphed into present day madrassas in south asia--of interest only to
those who had and have no way to access any other form of schooling
for their children.

By distorting historical facts--and using the lexicon of hate
developed from 9-11 forward to inform and reconstruct 19th century
history--lexicon such as "Al Qaeda"; suicide bombing; and the loaded
language of Jihad--Mr. Dalrymple inspite of all his professing of
defending the misuderstood muslims and the moghuls---joins the gang of
writers busily building up a body of propaganda required for a global
pogram and to justify Empire and Colonialism.

23 January 2007 at 23:47
Mr. Dalrymple dangerously distorts history to fit the present lexicon
of terrorism. The Madrassas prior to the rebellion of 1857 had a Hindu
and Muslim student body. Persian which was the language of the Moghul
court was taught in Madrassas along with mathematics, history,
literature, and religion. Hindu and Muslim scholars taught here. Many
if not most of the adminstrators of the Moghul courts who wereHindu
studied in these Madrassas. These were boys from elite Hindu families
who studied at these madrassas in preparation for the Moghul court.
The Madrassas (Persian word for school) thus taught Duniya (the world)
and deen (religion).These madrassas were also the place which the
British zeroed in on afer the rebellion of 1857 as the places where
the rebellion/mutiny against the British occupation had been fomented.
After the rebellion had been crushed the British crushed the madrassas
by cutting of their resources and curtailing their curriculum and
relegating it to religious teachings. By doing so the British in their
endless meddling and molesting gave birth to the madrassa of today in
south asia-- emaciated and starved for resources and relegated to
teaching religion since they were not permitted to teach anything
else. And without the benefit of educated teachers --ther religion
taught in these institutions morphed into present day madrassas in
south asia--of interest only to those who had and have no way to
access any other form of schooling for their children.

bahu virupaksha
15 October 2007 at 12:11
In 1857, exactly 150 years ago, soldiers of the then Bengal Army rose
in rebellion against the English rukers of India. Historians have been
debating the outbreak of 1857 ever since. However on the occasion of
the 150 anniversary of the Mutiny several tourists from England,
particularly the great great grand son of General Havelock and other
members of the familires of the descendents of the Engish officers who
faught against the Indian troops, wanted to pay homage to their
ancesors at their graves strewn all over the Northern part of the
country, especilly near Lucknow, Azamhgar, Kanpur and Delhi. We can
expect that after 150 years the embers from the past would not create
a blinding flame of resentmernt.

However the British tourists have been prevented from paying homage at
the Mutiny graves on the ground that any floral tibute to the fallen
British soldiers will be an insult to the Sepoys who faught and died
in the Movement. I find this line of reasoning extremely
disconcerting. The descendents of the fallen English soldiers have the
right to connect with their past. And by honoring the memory of those
who died in the 1857 War in not an insult to the Sepoys wh were
killed.

The reason why this divergence in perception is because India has not
ever bothered to memoralise the Sepoys who were killed in 1857. What
was done on the ocassion of the Centenary celebration in 1957 was
merely the appropriation of memorials already constructed by the
English by the placement of a plaque stating that Indians were also
killed inm the event. By denying an appropriate "site of memory" for
the Indians who faught and died in the Uprising of 1857,the country
has not got a closure of the terrible events of 1857.

For example, the march of General James Neill from Allahabad to
Lucknow in June of 1857 was accompanied by the deliberate large scale
killing of civillian on a scale that is still remembered with horror
till this day. Contemporary observers stated that the British soldiers
like Neill amd Havelock were early pioneers in the dubious art of
"shock and awe". Entire villages were wiped out with grape shot and
lunch mobs of English Indigo planteers ans Irish soldiers relentlessly
killed innocent civillians in the name of counter insurgency. Such
horrors need to be remembered and because India has neglected to
memoralise such terrible deeds there is resort to the crude device of
blocking access to the Mutiny era graves.

One hopes that on the ocassion of the 150 anniversary the victims of
1857 will also be remembered.

bahu virupaksha
15 October 2007 at 12:15
Darlymple is not quite convincing when he uses the term Jehadi to
describe the insurgents of 1857. The language within which they sought
to apprehend their situation both political and cultural was tinged
with the Islamic notion of a struggle against an unrighteous rule.
Jehad only means a struggle against an evil unjust oppressive order,
and that sums up the East India Company rule in India.

chomsky
21 October 2007 at 22:20
Dalrymple wrote this book for the English speaking world as if trying
to show his sympathy for the mutiny. The atrocities of these barbarian
savage "firangis" (race of pirates, as the British were always
referred to in South Asia) were well documented by South Asian
historians. Lets look ate the savagery of these pagans vandals/vikings
hordes who converted to christians committed in the last millenium;

1. Crusades- Thousands of innocent people killed by these fanatics in
the name of their religion. Yet Saladin allowed them to leave
unharmed !!!

2. Inquisition- For 800 years entire Iberia(Spain, Portugal and part
of France) were under Arab rule. People of all religoin leived in
peace. The moment Muslim rule ended , all Muslim and Jews were
expelled and forcibly converted to the dispicable Jesus filth !!!

3. Slavery - 20 million people shipped form Africe to the Americas as
slave. Roughly 20% died in sea !!

4. Aparthield- Millions of people were subjected to institutional
subjugation with full backing from the religion(filth of Isa/Mary) of
these hordes.

5. From Hitler to Stalin to Musolini to Truman(The thug who dropped
atomic bomb on innocent civilians) to Milosovich, the greatest murders
in human history were all born to this race.

It is time Dalrymple should write books on atrocities of his race, and
take up his pen against the teachings of the fanatic, extremist ,
saddistic garbage that is christianity !

http://www.newstatesman.com/200610160035

Sid Harth

unread,

Dec 17, 2009, 1:14:53 PM12/17/09

India - Introduction
William Dalrymple

Published 30 January 2006

When I moved back to India three years ago, I took a lease on a
farmhouse five kilometres from the boom town of Gurgaon on the western
edge of Delhi. From the end of my road you could just see the rings of
new housing estates springing up, full of call-centres, software
companies and fancy apartment blocks, all rapidly rising on land that
only two years earlier was still billowing winter wheat. These new
neighbourhoods, most of them still half-built, were invariably given
unrealistically enticing names - Beverly Hills, Windsor Court - an
indication, perhaps, of where their increasingly wealthy Punjabi
middle-class owners would prefer to be, and where, in time, they may
eventually migrate. Now, three years later, Gurgaon abuts the edge of
our estate, and the largest mall in Asia is coming up a quarter of a
mile from my house. The speed of the development is breathtaking. As
Edward Luce points out in his brilliant and thought-provoking piece on
the Indian economy in this issue, India is already on the verge of
overtaking Japan to become the third-largest economy in the world.

So extraordinary is all this that it is easy to overlook the fragility
and unevenness of the boom. As you leave Gurgaon, it is like heading
back in time to a slower, premodern world. Within 20 minutes cars and
trucks are beginning to give way to camel and bullock carts, denim and
baseball caps to dusty cotton dhotis and turbans. The colour begins to
drain away from the landscape but for the odd flash of a red sari: a
woman winding her way to the village well. The truth is that much of
India remains completely untouched by this astonishing boom. The
grandchildren of Brahmin temple priests may be designing space
rockets, but the grandchildren of untouchables are still untouchables,
and the grandchildren of the two-thirds of Indians who derive their
income from agriculture remain, by and large, farmers. Because of the
caste system, the hyperdevelopment of India is being driven by a tiny
elite section of the population. The tensions that this growing
inequality will produce can only be guessed at. At the same time as
Hyderabad geeks have seized great chunks of the US software writing
market, farmers 50 miles to the north have been poisoning themselves
in waves of debt-related mass suicides. The militantly Maoist Naxalite
movement is spreading out from Bengal and Bihar into the Gangetic
heartland of India. India is changing with a speed that is
astonishing; but, as this special issue makes clear, much still
remains uncertain, and the country remains as fascinatingly
unpredictable as ever.

William Dalrymple is the New Statesman's south Asia correspondent. His
NS piece on madrasas won Print Article of the Year at the 2005 Foreign
Press Association awards

1 comment from readers

mrin75
31 January 2007 at 19:34
This article once again brings forth the 'West's perception of India'
and what the West perceives as growth. Why 'denim caps' giving way to
'dusty dhotis' should be a sign of 'lack of growth' I fail to
understand. And yes of course the bullockcarts! When I was travelling
through Salzburg a couple of years back, I found the city perfect but
lacking 'something'. And then I met this lady from Salzburg who told
me that the government actually 'paid' the poor to stay off the
streets so that the tourist would never have to face them !

I have seen beggars on busy Oxford Street, London on a freezing
January night.

I've lived in America for the past 6 years and I see homeless and
destitute people in every city I have visited.

The writer proclaims that India has a long way to go and there he is
right. However, at least we run our bullock carts with our own
bullocks---that's better than waging wars to fill up your gas tanks!!

http://www.newstatesman.com/200601300014

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 11:06:49 PM12/17/09

Washington, December 18, 2009
There are tensions between U.S. and Pak: Pentagon
PTI

AP A damaged section of the Pentagon in this Sept. 13, 2001 file
photo. Photo: AP

The 18th Defense Consultative Group Session -- the first since 2006 --
was led by Undersecretary of Defence for Policy, Michele Flournoy, and
Pakistani Defence Secretary Lt Gen (rtd) Syed Athar Ali. The first
such meeting was held in 2002

The relationship between the US and Pakistan is complex, the Pentagon
said on Friday, acknowledging that there were tensions on both sides.

“Our relationship with Pakistan is complex,” the Deputy Assistant
Secretary of Defence for Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia, David
Sedney, told reporters after a meeting between the defence delegations
of the two countries.

“There have been a lot of ups and downs over the years, and there are
a lot of areas where we still have a lot of open questions and where
there are, for lack of a better word, issues that continue to fester
from the past. While it’s unfortunate, that’s also understandable,”
Sedney said.

“There are tensions on both sides... There’re things that Pakistan
wants that we’re not able to do, things that we want Pakistan is not
able to do,” he said in response to a query.

He said sometimes the discussions between both sides got “very, very
difficult” while at times they are “very, very positive“.

For Pentagon, he said, focus now is on supporting Pakistan in its
internal struggle against extremism and helping build a long-term
strategic partnership that looks beyond the current light to a
Pakistan that plays an important regional role in security.

“It was a frank and open discussion,” Sedney said.

The Pentagon is helping Pakistan improve its intelligence,
surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, both through cooperative
efforts that include border-cooperation centres, sharing of
intelligence information, and also in the provision of additional
equipment that the Pakistani government has asked for, he said.

Sydney said the US was confident that Pakistan has the ability to
maintain security of their nuclear weapons.

“This is an area of course that’s very sensitive, important to the
government and to the people of Pakistan. We are saying that we have
confidence in the government, the people and the military of
Pakistan,” he said.

During the meeting, Pentagon told Pakistani officials that the US role
in Afghanistan is going to continue.

“That was a message that was very important to the Pakistanis, because
they don’t want us to leave Afghanistan, as we did in 1989... We made
that point,” Sydney said.

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article66751.ece?homepage=true

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 11:12:25 PM12/17/09

POONCH, December 18, 2009
Son of PoK spiritual guru in jail for militant 'nexus'
Shujaat Bukhari

Last year, Peer Habib Shah, a highly respected spiritual leader from
the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, returned home with lakhs of rupees as
'nazrana' (gift) given by his followers in Poonch. But this year, he
was not so lucky; he was forced to leave behind his young son, who
landed in jail for alleged nexus with militants.

The caretaker of the Panag Sharief shrine in Kotli on the other side
of the Line of Control, the Peer has a tremendous following in Poonch
district. He routinely visits Poonch, coming normally through Wagah on
a proper visa. This year too, he came along with his wife and son Peer
Munawar Shah alias Babu (35). But the visit this time proved
distasteful for the whole family. His father's shrine is located at
Chagla in Mendhar tehsil here.

Munawar Shah married a woman, whose Pakistani militant husband is in
jail. He was taken into custody on December 1, during a routine police
search of the belongings of passengers crossing the Line of Control.
Security men at Chakan da Bagh detected a satellite phone in a
suitcase carried by one Tufail Hussain from Islamgarh Mirpur. He was
arrested and interrogated, but he feigned ignorance about the phone.

According to Poonch SSP Manmohan Singh, the suitcase was given to him
by Akram Shah, an ISI operative, for being handed over to Munawar
Shah. "He told us that he was not aware of the phone as it was tucked
inside the flap," Mr. Singh told The Hindu.

Akram Shah, according to the interrogation report, told him that
Munawar Shah would meet him at the Poonch bus Sstand. "And this was
corroborated, as Munawar Shah was travelling to the destination when
the passengers were disembarking," Mr. Singh said. However, he got an
inkling of what was happening and changed his route. But, Mr. Singh
said, Tufail Hussain was just a courier, and prima facie it was
established that he did not know that the phone was in the suitcase.

Akram Shah is a clerk in the SDM office at Kotli, but is in close
association with Amjad Hussain, a Subedar Major of the Inter-Services
Intelligence. Interestingly, Akram Shah visited Poonch last year
through this LoC point and stayed here for a month. The police and
Intelligence agencies are now trying find out who sponsored his trip
and whom he met in Poonch. Most probably, officials say, he set up a
network and wanted to further it through the influential Munawar
Shah.

Munawar Shah came along with his father from Wagah on August 6, and
their visa was extended thrice. It was to expire on December 17, but
given the turmoil his son's involvement created, Peer Habib Shah was
forced to leave with his wife.

Last year, he took Rs.55 lakh with him, but this year he left sobbing.
He was seen off by hundreds of his followers.

Soon after Munawar Shah's arrest, protests erupted in Poonch. All
mainstream political parties joined the agitation, as the arrest was
seen as a setback to peace initiatives. But Mr. Singh believes he had
some strong connection here, so the satellite phone with two SIM cards
was meant for him.

Suspicion

What makes the story more suspicious is that he "quietly" married
Sobia of Surankot. She was earlier married to Mukhtar, a Pakistani
militant who is in the Kot Bhalwal jail. Mukhtar was arrested, along
with Sobia's mother Shamima, who was later released. The Nikah was
facilitated by a local contractor. A 'Mehr' of Rs.1,000 was fixed.

Munawar Shah was kept in the joint interrogation centre for two weeks
and questioned by the police, the Intelligence Bureau and other
agencies.

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article66713.ece

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 17, 2009, 11:15:13 PM12/17/09

December 18, 2009
A weaker Zardari

The Pakistan Supreme Court verdict striking down the National
Reconciliation Ordinance as unconstitutional and void ab initio did
not come as a surprise. The NRO that was promulgated on October 2007
by former President Pervez Musharraf, a day before the presidential
election, had been widely perceived as a “deal” struck by him with the
former Pakistan People’s Party leader, Benazir Bhutto, to provide her
relief from the corruption charges she faced. The “deal” was that the
NRO would enable Bhutto to get back to Pakistan and actively
participate in its politics and that, in return, her party would not
oppose the General’s election. The NRO benefited, in all, over 8,000
people, most of them low-ranking officials. The list of politicians
who benefited is short, but President Asif Ali Zardari is among them.
Earlier this year, while declaring Gen. Musharraf’s November 3, 2007
emergency unconstitutional and illegal, the Supreme Court had asked
parliament to take a decision on the NRO and a clutch of other
ordinances that he had promulgated. But in the National Assembly,
where the PPP does not have a majority of its own, even its allies
baulked at legislating an ordinance seen as “legitimising corruption.”
The ordinance lapsed and the ball was back in the Supreme Court where
petitions against the NRO were pending. Mindful of the inherent
indefensibility of the NRO, the government decided not to defend it in
the court. The only remaining issue was how far the court would go in
confronting the beneficiaries, especially Mr. Zardari.

The full court comprising 17 judges that heard the case made no person-
specific ruling. But its directive, contained in a short judgment,
that all cases and investigations cancelled under the NRO would stand
revived, as the steps taken under the scrapped law are deemed never to
have occurred, is trouble enough for Mr. Zardari. Although as
President he is protected from prosecution in criminal cases, the
judgment now opens the way for petitions both challenging his
eligibility as a candidate in the election to the office, and his
constitutional immunity. Also, the Supreme Court has made it clear
that the government must revive the cases against Mr. Zardari in Swiss
courts, where he and his late wife were accused of laundering and
stashing millions of dollars. In the coming days, as a result of the
Supreme Court verdict, Mr. Zardari will come under tremendous pressure
to resign. He is the least popular of the country’s political leaders,
already weakened by several controversies. It is unfortunate that Mr.
Zardari is also the only Pakistani leader today who has articulated a
bold new vision for ties with India and has had the courage to stand
up to jihadist militancy.

http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/article66653.ece

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 5:47:26 AM12/18/09

War report

12:00 AM CST on Friday, December 18, 2009

Two U.S. missile strikes hit targets Thursday inside Pakistan's
territory of North Waziristan, the main sanctuary used by al-Qaeda and
Taliban militants along the border with Afghanistan, killing 17
people, intelligence officials said. The second attack, which killed
15 people, involved five drones and 10 missiles, an unusually intense
bombardment. It was not clear who was the target of the strikes.

From wire reports

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/DN-warreport_18int.ART.State.Edition1.4be2cda.html

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 5:51:22 AM12/18/09

Pakistan, US at odds on enemies in terror war
By KATHY GANNON (AP) – 14 hours ago

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan — Bristling at criticism from Washington,
Pakistan's army dismissed U.S. pressure to open a front against Afghan
militants operating on its territory, saying Thursday it was stretched
to the limit in a bloody war against its own Taliban.

The disagreement is an early sign of the problems ahead in Pakistan
for the Obama administration, which desperately needs the country's
help against militants sheltering along its northwestern border if its
new strategy to turn around the Afghan war is going to succeed.

Also a concern is the growing weakness of the democratically elected
leader, President Asif Ali Zardari, an unpopular U.S. ally in a
country that has spent about half its history under military rule. A
court ruling Wednesday struck down a graft amnesty, raising the
possibility of legal challenges to his rule.

In an interview in Rawalpindi, headquarters of the Pakistani army and
scene of several recent attacks by the Pakistani Taliban, army
spokesman Brig. Syed Azmat Ali denied allegations it was sheltering
Afghan Taliban fighters.

He said the army — which still deploys most of its troops along the
eastern border facing the country's traditional enemy, India — had to
go "step by step" while clearing militants from the northwestern
tribal regions, which have never been under government control.

"We can't start fighting in North Waziristan while we are in every
agency in the tribal area fighting the Taliban there," he said.

Ali repeated frequently aired complaints among Pakistani leaders that
U.S. and NATO forces were not doing enough to stop militants and
weapons crossing from over the porous Afghan border into Pakistan — an
echo of American claims that Pakistan does not do enough to stop
infiltration the other way.

He said Pakistan recovered "tons and tons" of weapons and ammunition
from Taliban chased from their headquarters in South Waziristan. He
said the weapons, the majority of which were Russian-made, came from
Afghanistan.

"We're tired of this mistrust and this questioning of our commitment
and of our sincerity," Ali said, adding that 2,000 Pakistani soldiers
have been killed fighting the Taliban since 2001.

Local militants grouped under the Pakistani Taliban banner have
launched an onslaught of attacks against Pakistani security forces and
other targets since October, when the army moved into their South
Waziristan stronghold with some 30,000 troops.

But in the neighboring North Waziristan region, Taliban militants who
are fighting against U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan have been
largely untouched by the army since 2001, when they fled to the region
to escape the American-led invasion.

Critics say Pakistan's reluctance to go after the Afghan Taliban and
particularly the so-called Haqqani network, led by longtime resistance
fighter and former U.S. ally Jalaluddin Haqqani, is part of a longer-
term strategy to keep them as potential allies when U.S. and NATO
troops pull out of Afghanistan.

Some analysts say Obama's deadline of 2011 for the start of the U.S.
troop withdrawal from Afghanistan will further discourage Pakistan
from waging war against the Afghan Taliban.

"The Pakistanis don't see the Afghan Taliban and allied Haqqani
network as a clear and present danger," said Brian Glyn Williams, a
terrorism expert at University of Massachusetts.

"For this reason the Pakistanis are unwilling to take on the Afghan
Taliban in a proxy war for their fickle U.S. allies," he said. "They
have already lost some 2,000 of their own troops fighting the
Pakistani Taliban in what many Pakistanis see as a surrogate war
against fellow Pakistanis on behalf of the U.S. And should the U.S.
withdraw troops one day and the Taliban sweep into power, the
Pakistanis don't want to have a record of having antagonized them."

In his speech announcing the deployment of 30,000 new troops in
Afghanistan, President Barack Obama said Taliban sanctuaries based in
Pakistan "cannot be tolerated." Since then, several U.S military
leaders have visited Pakistan to press for more action.

Although anti-American sentiment runs deep here, in recent months
public opinion has swung behind the military in its battle against
insurgents. That could change if the army brass is seen to be fighting
on the basis of U.S. orders.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jWslmYa5hDUq7-qFEFM_ZE5kVZegD9CL9EP02

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 9:35:01 AM12/18/09

Kerala Court remands Soofiya to 14 days judicial custody
December 18th, 2009 SindhToday

Kochi, Dec 18 (ANI): The first class judicial Magistrate in Aluva on
Friday sent Soofiya Madani for a 14-day judicial custody.

On Thursday evening, the Kerala Police arrested Soofiya wife of
People’s Democratic Party (PDP) president Abdul Naseer Maudany after
the rejection of her anticipatory bail plea by the Kerala High Court.

Soofiya was produced in the Aluva court after a day of thorough
interrogation by various security agencies.

Soofiya was named as the tenth accused in the bus-burning case, where
a Tamil Nadu State Transport Corporation bus was set afire in
September 2005 allegedly to pressure the government to release Madani
who was imprisoned in the Coimbatore Central Jail in connection with
the 1998 serial bomb blasts and attempt to assassinate former Deputy
Prime Minister L K Advani.

Dismissing her bail petition, Justice K.T. Sankaran had observed that
serious allegations, including waging of war against the government,
were levelled against the petitioner.

“There is prima facie evidence to indicate that terrorist activities
took place and the incident in the present case was the result of such
terrorist activities,” the court had observed.

Earlier, Kerala police had traced a link between Soofiya and T Nazir.

In first week of December, Nazeer was arrested along with his
associate by the Indian security agencies on the India – Bangladesh
border.

Nazeer is now being questioned by Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka
police in connection with different terror-related cases, including
the 2008 Bangalore serial bomb blast.

Based on the statement of T Nazir, Soofiya has been named by Kerala
police as an accused in the burning of a Tamil Nadu corporation bus.
(ANI)

http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/1/83291.htm

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 10:19:10 AM12/18/09

Suspected Suicide Bomber Kills Four In NW Pakistan

By REUTERS
Published: December 18, 2009
Filed at 4:12 a.m. ET

MINGORA, Pakistan (Reuters) - A suspected suicide bomber killed at
least four people on Friday outside the office of a top official in
Pakistan's northwestern district of Lower Dir, police and intelligence
agency officials said.

The blast occurred outside the office of the chief administrator of
the district, where the army carried out an offensive against
Pakistani Taliban militants this year. (Writing by Augustine Anthony;
Editing by Robert Birsel

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/12/18/world/international-uk-pakistan-violence.html?_r=1

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 10:37:26 AM12/18/09

Pakistan responds
American policy fuels backlash
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2009

Pakistani authorities are engaging in an anti-American campaign in
retaliation for U.S. policies in the region.

Pakistani police are subjecting diplomatic vehicles to searches at
roadblocks, and approvals of visas for U.S. officials have been
delayed, the New York Times reported.

At least 135 U.S. Embassy workers have been denied extensions of
visas, requiring them to leave the country and slowing down U.S.
operations. The loss of visas for 14 American mechanics means the loss
of service on U.S. helicopters that can no longer participate in joint
missions against Pakistani troops fighting the Taliban in the tribal
northwest provinces.

The loss of accountants has slowed processing reimbursements of nearly
$1 billion annually to Pakistan for its counterterrorism operations.
It may also impede expansion of the U.S Embassy from 500 to 800 staff
members. One U.S. official said aid programs are "grinding to a halt."

The drive by military and intelligence officials is indicative of the
ambivalence of Pakistanis who willingly take billions of dollars in
U.S. aid but resent the U.S. military campaign against Pakistani-based
militants attacking troops and allied forces in Afghanistan.
Pakistanis are also irritated about stepped-up U.S. pressure to do
more against militants in their country, seeing that as an internal
matter. Some of the anti-Americanism stems from rumors or misleading
reports on American conduct.

Pakistani actions, though, are counterproductive and jeopardize the
cooperation necessary in pursuit of the Taliban and al-Qaida.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20091218/OPINION01/312189975/-1/opinion

Sid Harth

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Dec 18, 2009, 4:28:38 PM12/18/09

Damage control: Zardari calls for crisis meeting
Amir Mir / DNA
Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:45 IST

Islamabad: Pakistan president Asif Zardari on Friday called an
emergency meeting of a core group of the Pakistan People's Party's
ministers to discuss the country's political situation.

The meeting, attended by prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Qamar
Zaman Kaira, Rehman Malik, and others, plans to evolve a strategy to
cope with the situation arising out of a supreme court (SC) verdict on
the controversial national reconciliation ordinance, the sources said.

The defence minister has been barred from travelling abroad on the
supreme court's orders and the interior minister faces arrest warrants
which have been issued by a lower court, but a presidential spokesman
dismissed speculation that the army was planning a coup against the
government.

Zardari'sspokesman Farhatullah Babar refuted reports that the army was
planning to topple the Pakistan People's Party government in the wake
of the recent apex court ruling, which has revived criminal
proceedings against over 200 top politicians, including defence
minister Ahmed Mukhtar and interior minister Malik. The National
Accountability Bureau, an anti-corruption agency, revived charges
against officials and politicians after the SC's ruling two days back.

It had protected Zardari, Malik, Mukhtar and about 8,000 others from
graft and criminal charges. The SC scrapped an amnesty protecting
Mukhtar and Malik and hundreds others from corruption charges.

Babar said the country's top military leaders had made it clear that
they were committed to civilian rule and that they wanted to
depoliticise the army.

Rumours of a coup started when Pakistan's ambassador to the United
States, Husain Haqqani, said, in response to a question on the defence
minister being denied the right to leave, that he hoped there would
not be a coup.

A spokesman for the state anti-graft agency said on Thursday that
after the amnesty had been lifted, the names of about 248 people had
been placed on a list of people barred from leaving the country. The
tainted ministers are facing calls to resign. --With Inputs from
Agencies

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_damage-control-zardari-calls-for-crisis-meeting_1325160

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 10:05:20 PM12/18/09

Pakistan moves forward with Taliban negotiations
By Bill Roggio
December 18, 2009 2:20 PM

The News provides further evidence that the Pakistani government is
seeking a negotiated settlement with the Taliban in South Waziristan.

The Mehsud tribal elders from South Waziristan are in a fix as they
are wondering how they would be able to get hold of the 378 militants
wanted by the government.

The list of 378 militants and their supporters was delivered to the
Mehsud elders by the political agent of South Waziristan, Syed Shahab
Ali Shah, in a meeting here Tuesday. The list reportedly contains the
names of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) head Hakeemullah Mehsud and
other 18 top wanted militants for whose capture the government has
announced head money. They included Waliur Rahman, Qari Hussain and
Azam Tariq.

In fact, the political administration handed over a list of four
demands to the Mehsud elders during a jirga. The political agent asked
the elders to extend full support to the government initiative for the
restoration of peace and tranquility in the region.

Explaining the four points, he said the jirga had to hand over 378
wanted militants and their supporters to the administration without
any further delay. Second, he said the use of heavy weapons would be
strictly prohibited and if anyone committed violation, the elders of
the respective area would hand over that person to the administration.

Establishing a parallel administrative or judicial system by anyone
anywhere in the tribal agency will not be allowed, the political agent
said, adding that only those tribesmen having personal enmities and
disputes would be provided shelter.

Shahab Ali said the elders would not harbour anti-state elements and
residents of settled areas hiding in the tribal agency. The Mehsud
elders sought time until December 30 for consultations. However, they
know that it would be difficult if not impossible for them to force or
persuade the TTP militants to lay down arms and surrender to the
administration.

Having closely followed the Pakistan military and government's past
negotiations with the Taliban closely, I can say the current process
The News reported above as well as signals by the government last week
mirrors the negotiating process for past peace agreements. The
government brings in tribal leaders and/or religious groups to serve
as intermediaries, then hammers out an agreement that includes several
or all of the following points:

• The tribes cannot shelter "foreigners" [code for al Qaeda].
• The tribes cannot shelter Taliban leaders or fighters.
• The tribes must turn over Taliban leaders and fighters.
• The Taliban must turn in their weapons.
• No parallel government can be established.

Each time, the agreement is signed, the military and government hail
the 'peace agreement' as the political solution to end military
operations, and the military quickly or slowly withdraws. The tribes
do not fulfill their end of the bargain in the 'peace agreement,' the
Taliban return to reassert control, and al Qaeda keep their camps and
safe houses.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2009/12/pakistan_moves_forward_with_ta.php

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 18, 2009, 10:07:10 PM12/18/09

16 Taliban killed in Orakzai

HANGU/ISLAMABAD: Security forces backed by fighter jets killed 16
terrorists and injured another 22 when they targeted terrorists’
hideouts in various areas of Orakzai Agency on Friday, sources said.

Sources said the jets destroyed four hideouts in Dabori, Ghalju,
Mamuzai and Malpati areas of Upper Orakzai.

Meanwhile in South Waziristan, the security forces cleared 30 bunkers
and compounds, which were previously being used by the Taliban.

According to an update issued on Friday, the forces carried out
clearance operations around Serwakai and recovered a large cache of
arms from the Shakai sector.

The forces conducted a search operation in Song Khula near Asman Manza
and destroyed a watchtower that was used by the Taliban. The Taliban
fired with small arms at a security forces checkpost near Razmak,
injuring a soldier. However, the attack was effectively responded to.
In Swat, troops conducted search operations in Bala Sur near Chuprial,
as well as Hamwarai, Roria, Kontangat, Kotkai, Kamargai and
apprehended 30 suspects. A terrorist surrendered at Kharary near
Matta. saboor khan/app

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C12%5C19%5Cstory_19-12-2009_pg7_4

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 4:09:00 AM12/19/09

Death toll from Pakistan mosque attack rises to 15
(AFP) – 3 hours ago

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — The death toll from a suicide attack on a
Pakistan mosque rose to 15 on Saturday after bodies were plucked from
the rubble and people succumbed to their injuries, officials said.

The bomber rammed a vehicle rigged with explosives into a mosque next
to a police headquarters in Lower Dir, a northwest district that
Pakistan claims to have cleared of Taliban fighters after a major
offensive this year.

"The death toll has reached 15 in the suicide blast. Two people died
in hospital and two people were taken out from under the rubble,"
Doctor Wakeel Mohammad Khan, head of main hospital in Lower Dir, told
AFP.

Muhammad Idrees Khan, deputy inspector general of police in the
district, confirmed the same death toll from the attack in Taimergara
town.

Islamist extremists are stepping up attacks in Pakistan to avenge
military operations trying to crush Taliban sanctuaries in parts of
the northwest, targeting security forces and increasingly civilians.

Militant attacks have killed more than 2,700 people since July 2007
and Washington is pressuring Pakistan to do more to crack down on Al-
Qaeda and stop militants crossing the border to attack Western troops
in Afghanistan.

Pakistan says at least 2,150 militants were killed during a major
offensive against homegrown Taliban in Lower Dir, and neighbouring
districts Swat and Buner earlier this year but attacks still plague
the region.

Pakistani policemen gather at the site of a suicide car bomb blast in
Taimergara town in Lower Dir district

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iaAnPr8ccPra0cXkEZzDiwnWHhbQ

bademiyansubhanallah

unread,

Dec 19, 2009, 4:10:54 AM12/19/09

Pakistan’s Army Expands Taliban War to Target Bombers’ Bases
By Anwar Shakir

Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan’s army has expanded its war against
Taliban militants to dismantle bases they use to launch suicide
bombings in major cities, its spokesman said.

“Those suicide bombers who are in the training pipeline will come out
but our only option is to destroy their strongholds and hideouts,”
Major General Athar Abbas said in a telephone interview from his
office in Rawalpindi.

Terrorist attacks surged after the military launched an offensive in
October against the Tehrik-e-Taliban group in the tribal region of
South Waziristan. Peshawar, the capital of North-West Frontier
Province, has been hit by 11 attacks killing about 200 people.
Pakistan fears that a U.S. troop surge in Afghanistan will push more
Taliban fighters across the border.

“Peshawar is under siege by militants pouring in from the nearby
Afghan border,” Jordan Sekulow, director at the Washington-based
American Center for Law and Justice said in an e-mail interview.
“These terrorists are flexing their muscles and communicating to the
public that the government cannot protect them.”

Pakistani security forces have used fighter jets and ground troops to
root out terrorists from the tribal areas of Kurram, Khyber and
Orakzai beginning last month.

“We conducted the operation in Khyber to secure Peshawar, which is now
safe, to a great extent,” Abbas said. “We will take action against
them in any part of the tribal areas that’s needed.” A bombing in
Peshawar killed 10 people on Dec. 7.

Taliban Leader

Hakimullah Mehsud was the Pakistani Taliban’s operational head of the
Khyber, Orakzai and Kurram agencies before he was appointed as overall
commander to replace Baitullah Mehsud who was killed in a U.S. drone
attack in August.

Hakimullah Mehsud “could be” somewhere between North and South
Waziristan, Abbas said in the interview. “He is definitely alive.”

Troops have killed 635 militants and 79 soldiers have died since the
operation began in South Waziristan, according to the army.
Paramilitary forces have killed 85 militants since Nov. 14 in Khyber,
the main supply route for U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan,
according to the Frontier Corp.

Terrorists have targeted Peshawar’s markets this year. At least 130
people were killed and 200 were wounded in a bomb attack in the Meena
Bazaar on Oct. 28. Saddar Bazaar, Peshawar’s biggest, is largely
deserted. Shopkeepers close their stores at 6 p.m., at least three
hours earlier than normal.

‘Looking for Bombs’

“Instead of being on the lookout for customers, our habit has changed
to keep watch for another bomb and how to escape it,” said blanket
merchant Gul Zar Khan.

By bombing Peshawar repeatedly, “the Taliban want to put a lot of
pressure on us,” said Mian Iftikhar Hussain, information minister for
the province. “People are suffering with economic losses and a lot of
tension.”

As paramilitary forces step up the operation in Khyber, 50 kilometers
(31 miles) west of Peshawar, the main market in Bara, Khyber’s major
town, is a ruin of rubble and gutted shops. The Frontier Corp., a
paramilitary unit, showed Bloomberg News on a Dec. 12 visit arms,
ammunition, detonators, computers, militant literature and passports
seized from guerrillas.

Further signs of war are south in the Taliban headquarters of South
Waziristan. Cellular phone towers, schools and houses are destroyed
and the sound of gunfire is almost constant.

Suicide Bomber Hostel

At the village of Nawazkot, a 20-room building seized by the army was
used as a hostel for trainee suicide bombers, officers told reporters
flown in by military helicopter. Walls are covered with a series of
images representing the bombers’ reward in the afterlife -- rolling
green hills, rivers of milk, cottages with red-tiled sloping roofs and
female angels.

Next to each painting, the name of the bomber is written in his own
blood, Major Saleem, the area’s commanding officer, told reporters.
“The suicide bombers under training were between 12 and 16 and these
paintings were used to show them where they would go after blowing
themselves up.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Anwar Shakir in Dera Ismail
Khan, Pakistan at pak...@bloomberg.net.

Last Updated: December 17, 2009 18:30 EST

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=asqlWOZqq6Bs

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 4:12:46 AM12/19/09

12 killed, 30 injured in suicide attack in NWFP
STAFF WRITER 18:22 HRS IST
A Muhammad and Rezaul H Laskar

Peshawar/Islamabad, Dec 18 (PTI) Taliban militants today hit
Pakistan's lawless NWFP as a suicide bomber detonated his explosive-
laden car outside a mosque after Friday prayers at Timergarah in Dir
district, killing 12 people, mostly policemen.

The bomber struck as the people were leaving the mosque near the
police lines after prayers and most of the victims were policemen from
the nearby station, police officials said.

Witnesses said the victims included a woman and two children. The toll
could rise as the condition of some of the 28 people injured in the
attack was critical.

Some senior police officers of the Dir district, from where the army
claimed to have cleared the Taliban militants in a almost three-month
long operation, were present in the mosque but escaped unhurt.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/430402_12-killed--30-injured-in-suicide-attack-in-NWFP

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 4:39:09 AM12/19/09

Rangnath Commission recommends 10% quota for Muslims
Agencies

Posted: Friday , Dec 18, 2009 at 1749 hrs

New Delhi:

A government-appointed Commission has recommended 10 per cent
reservation for Muslims and five per cent for other minorities in
government jobs and favoured Scheduled Caste status for Dalits in all
religions.

The report of the National Commission for Religious and Linguistic
Minorities, headed by former Chief Justice of India Rangnath Mishra,
was tabled by Minority Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid in the Lok
Sabha on Friday.

Among a host of recommendations, the Commission recommends delinking
of Scheduled Caste status from religion and abrogation of the 1950
Scheduled Caste Order which "still excludes Muslims, Christians, Jains
and Parsis from the SC net."

The Order originally restricted the SC status to Hindus only but was
later opened it to Buddhists and Sikhs.

With regard to quota, the Commission says that 10 per cent should be
reserved for Muslims and five per cent for other minorities in central
and state government jobs in all cadre and grades.

It added that in case of non-availability of Muslims to fill the 10
per cent earmarked seats, these may be made available to other
minorities but in "no case" shall any seat within the recommended 15
per cent shall be given to anybody from the majority community.

Member Secretary of the Commission Asha Das has, however, given a note
of dissent on the the Commission's recommendation for conferment of SC
status on Dalit converts to Christianity and Islam saying there was
"no justification" for it.

Besides, she has said that as Dalit converts to Christianity/Islam do
not qualify for inclusion as SCs, they should continue to form part of
OBCs and avail facilities and reservations given to the OBCs until a
comprehensive list of Socially and Educationally Backward (SEB) is
prepared.

The Commission has, however, rejected the contentions made by Das in
the dissent note and said "(we) firmly stand by every word of the
recommendations, we have made under this term of reference."

The Commission also suggested an alternative route for reservation to
minorities if there is "insurmountable difficulty" in implementing the
recommendation for 15 reservation.

In this regard it said since minorities constitute 8.4 percent of the
total OBC population according to the Mandal Commission report so in
the 27 percent OBC quota, an 8.4 percent sub quota should be earmarked
for minorities.

The internal break-up should be 6 percent for the Muslims,
commensurate with their 73 percent share in the total minority
population at the national level and 2.4 percent for other minorities.

Comments |

POVERTY OF FAMILY SHOULD BE THE CRITERION AND NOT RELIGION
By: B S GANESH BANGALORE | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 14:06:22 PM

In my humble opinion reservation based on caste, creed religion is a
fraud only. In fact poor people can be found in all communities.
Religion followed by people are only personal and can change if they
wish also. religion is to be followed within four walls of houses and
place of worship only and should not be used in politics and goverance
as religion is an inanimatec thing, but poverty can be felt easiliy
and poverty of family should be the criterion for any benefits for
uplifting the family by subsidiy, educational facility and healthcare.
Persons suffering from poverty can be found in all religions and hence
poverty of family should recive attention. Ranganathan's commission is
not correct. Bringing religion and caste for favours only creates
disputes and affects unity of the country. B S GANESH
gan...@dataone.in, BANGALORE

Resrvations for the Monorities
By: Basheer | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 13:22:23 PM

SO NOW the reason for granting the reservations which was ostensibly
to counter the thousands of years of discrimination suffered by the so
called lower castes has now changed to improving the condition of back
ward ness in society. Our neighbours in the name of Islam give clairon
calls for inflicting a thousand cuts on the Hindus in India to change
this country to Dar Ul Islam from DaR Ul Hab and the Hindus decide to
give them resrvation in govt jobs. STRANGE.

Vote Bank Politics
By: RAJENDRA | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 13:04:03 PM

It was the policy of Congress Government 1)Develop a vote bank 2)
Create a fear in mind of Muslims and make them to vote in block to
congress. 3)Create a hatered in mind of common Hindus who feels that
Pakistan was created on demand of muslims so if they want anything
special they must go to Pakistan . Also Hindus feel that purposely
they are multiplying So that on one day they will be Majority. See the
population growth in Mallpuram District of Kerala with in span of 80
years they have increased from 21% to 67%. 4)Now what will happen ,The
BJP,Shivsena ,Viswa Hidu parishad etc. will oppose and Congress will
say that we want to give but these people are opposing please vote us
Please pray god and demand a Good Ruler who will uplift all sections
of society without any discreaimanation

plz spare some time and read this so may be you can open your
mind.......
By: aziz shaikh | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 12:46:16 PM

hi ms udita agrawal I read your comments but was surprised by your
comments. i would like to remind you about the topic "The report of
the National Commission for Religious and Linguistic Minorities". but
your comments are more about being phobic about religious conversion
in slums and jungle . The people in jungle and slums have more
problems in there hands . THESE ARE the same vote banks used by
politicians to win on then forget them . i guess for you its more
important that they stay in a particular caste rather being devolped .
i studied in an convent ,all my friends are from diffrent castes . but
i think it will be good for all the indians that if we dont support
those leaders who want to devide indians as hindus and muslims and
etc . forget about devlopment and burn christian masnories and bring
down mosques . by doing so they are diverting indians from the bigger
picture . well never mind i think you know religion is a personal and
a constitutional right of a citizen .

Dangerous Proposals to Plunge India Into Chaos
By: Bharat | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 12:38:08 PM

Govt. concessions & reservations must be restricted to SC/ST and
backward communities of Hindu only. Daliths converted to other
religions are not converted by govt. instruction, but of their choice
only; and so never eligible for any govt. concessions in job and
education. 85% of govt. jobs must be reserved for Hindus, and the
remaining 15% to include for Christians, Budhists, Parsis, Jains,
Muslims - in order to keep India as it is for all the time to come, so
that percentage of Hindu population will remain as at present. Any
action from govt. should not plunge India into chaos on vote bank
policy of political parties. Any Hindu converting to other religion
should never be given any concession in job & education. SC/ST &
backward communities of Hindu have ample opportunities for
advancement; why then the stupidity of converting; or is there a
conspiracy from some quarters?

Rangnath Commission recommends 10% quota for Muslims,think why did
he ?......
By: azeez shaikh | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 12:24:03 PM

The report submitted by mr rangnath was a study conducted by National
Commission for Religious and Linguistic Minorities. which is a body
which take in account all the minorities in the country which is not
only muslims but sikhs , jains ,christains ,buddist ,etc . i will not
write all the names as there will be no space to write .the reason
people have got agitated is that it recommended a reservation for
muslims . THE commission found when muslims compaired with other
minorities where the most backward . if the commission would have
recommended reservation for jains or sikhs ?...would there be so much
oppostion ?....this show the mind set of people who what to call this
country secular on the international platform. THE muslim coummunity
is anilated when it comes to its wellfare .i personally dont belive in
reservation . i am also aware how reservations are openly abused in
india ...lol....so all the people with sallow hearts and narrow
mind ...its time for you to stop hogging

Reservation for buddhist
By: Krishna | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 12:04:02 PM

The reason why Buddhists and Sikhs have reservation, bcz they follow
Hindu family law. So they have to be included in the same reservation
laws. Muslims and Christians were the rulers for centuries, and if
they are poor, then don't blame others. It tells that there is a flaw
in their system.
Reservations on the basis of religion

By: S.Sistla | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 11:09:32 AM

It is strange that we are unable to make proper considerations when
dealing with reservations. 1. Reservations have definitely helped in
improving the status of backward communities even at the political
level. 2. This has helped in developing common consciousness in the
society at large through participation and contribution by the left
out masses. 3. It is important that the present status of Muslims in
general needs to be elevated. Therefore one can always look at the
successful model through which change was brought in the status of
Dalits. Even though some religions do not allow distinction in caste
terms one can find a practical way to identify Dalit like status among
these communities.

Good story
By: Misra | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 10:48:33 AM

It may be recalled that the OBC quota of 27 per cent also covers the
Muslim backwards besides Hindus. Therefore, there is no case for
laying down a separate quota out of it for backward Muslims or
Christians. If these religious communities are backward the reason for
it lies in their religion which is regressive and fundamentalist and
needs to be countered in other ways. The beneficiaries of the
inclusive quota of 27 per cent thus needs to be identified on the
basis of their economic criteria regardless of their religion.
Secondly, for Hindu Dalits converted to Islam and Christianity there
is no justification for treating them as eligible for Dalit quota as
these religions are basically egalitarian which do not recognize any
section as untouchable or Dalit. In any case, on no account the total
reservation should be allowed to exceed 50 per cent as per the ruling
of the Supreme Court.

Divide and rule: and get rid of meritorious of all castes and
religions from India- jai Soniya
By: Pervertosecular | Saturday , 19 Dec '09 9:54:04 AM

What else can you expect when a catholic woman is ruling India? The
only way a bar bar waitress from Sicily, who was probably abused by
the priests of her Catholic church, can rule is by getting the
meritorious to escape India and divide the remaining. Rangila Mishra,
a converted stooge of no character, is the perfect tool to get such
perverse reports written.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/rangnath-commission-recommends-10-quota-for-muslims/556065/0

bademiyansubhanallah

unread,

Dec 19, 2009, 4:43:37 AM12/19/09

Nanavati panel gets one more extension
Express News Service
Posted: Saturday , Dec 19, 2009 at 0142 hrs

Ahmedabad:

Will submit the second part of its report by June 30, 2010

The Gujarat government has granted yet another extension to the
Justices (retired) G T Nanavati and Akshay Mehta Commission which was
formed to investigate into the Godhra train carnage incident and
subsequent communal riots in the state.

The term of the Commission, which was formed in March 2002, was to
expire on December 31. The Commission has been granted the extension
of six months to complete its report. The Commission has already given
its first report pertaining to the incident of burning the S-6 coach
of the Sabarmati Express in which 59 Kar Sevaks were charred to death.
The Commission had termed the incident a pre-planned conspiracy
involving “some individuals”.

In its first report, the Commission said that “there is absolutely no
evidence to show that either the Chief Minister and/or any other
Minister(s) in his Council of Ministers or police officers had played
any role in the Godhra incident…” It also gave a clean chit to the
state government on what followed.

While submitting its first report in September last year, the
Commission had said that it would submit the second part of the report
by December 31. However, following a proposal from the Commission
demanding extension to complete its second part report, the state
granted it another extension a couple of days back. Talking to The
Indian Express, Law Secretary M H Shah said, “The Commission had asked
for extension to complete the report and it has been accordingly
granted by the state government for six months.”

Time Line

March 6, 2002 - One-man commission headed by Justice (retired) K G
Shah was appointed to probe into the Godhra train burning incident and
the subsequent riots in the state

May 21, 2002 - Following opposition by certain groups, the Commission
was made two-member commission and Justice (retired) G T Nanavati was
appointed its chairman

June 2004 - Terms of Reference of the Commission were amended and the
Commission was enabled to probe into the role of Chief Minister
Narendra Modi and other ministers and bureaucrats in connection with
the Godhra train burning incident and the subsequent communal riots in
Gujarat

March 2008 - Justice (retired) K G Shah died

April 2008 - Justice (retired) Akshay Mehta appointed as member of the
Commission

September 2008 - The Commission submitted its first report pertaining
to the train burning incident dated February 27, 2002. The Commission
called the incident a pre-planned conspiracy and not an accident and
gave clean chit to Narendra Modi and the state government

December 2009 - The state government granted another extension to the
Commission for six months, till

June 30, 2010. The term was ending on December 31, 2009.

Comments (1) |

nanawati commission extension
By: sushil verma | 19-Dec-2009

Why is it that inquiry commissions set up in our country dp not
complete their report on time. Thet always ask for extension and are
always given extension. Liberhan Commission on Babri Masjid took 17
years and was given countless extension. The same for other
commissions. In contrast, in America the inquiry commission set up to
report on 9/11 World Trade Center completed the job in six months and
submitted it to the government. Also, in India many inquiey commission
reports are kept secret, not made public whereas in America all
inquiry commission reports are public documents available to every
one. So much so that even almost 65 years after the death of Netaji
Subhash Chandra Bose, many inquiry commission findings have not been
made public. Why our government is afraid to face the truth? So why do
we set up inquiry commissions any way? It is waste of money and time.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nanavati-panel-gets-one-more-extension/556249/0

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 5:19:57 AM12/19/09

Mainstream politicians welcome Kashmir troop cut, separatists cynical
Indo-Asian News Service
Srinagar, December 19, 2009

First Published: 15:05 IST(19/12/2009)
Last Updated: 15:09 IST(19/12/2009)

Mainstream political leaders in Jammu and Kashmir have welcomed the
announcement of union Defence Minister A.K. Antony that 30,000
soldiers have been withdrawn from the state, but separatist leaders
are cynical, saying the troop cut was not visible.

Antony had Friday said in New Delhi that 30,000 troops had been
withdrawn from Jammu and Kashmir over the last one year, but he said
the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) would not be repealed as
it was still needed keeping in view the security situation.

State Minister for Rural Development Ali Muhammad Sagar welcomed the
announcement about troop reduction and said the move was in line with
Chief Minister Omar Abdullah's stand.

"The chief minister has been making efforts for troop reduction and
this is a result of his efforts," Sagar said.

The ruling National Conference (NC) minister said more troops would be
withdrawn as and when the situation improved.

The opposition People's Democratic Party (PDP) spokesman Naeem Akhtar
said the reduction in the number of troops should not be "cosmetic".

"It should not be cosmetic where one battalion is replaced with the
other. The most significant development in this regard would be the
withdrawal of the AFSPA, which the defence minister has ruled out for
the present," Akhtar told IANS here.

Senior vice president of the Congress party Muzaffar Parray was happy
with Antony's announcement and said the AFSPA would be repealed by the
central government only after the overall security situation improved.

Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, chairman of the moderate Hurriyat group, said:
"If 30,000 troops had been withdrawn from Kashmir then it should have
been visible to the people here.

"The defence minister must tell us where and when has such reduction
taken place," Mirwaiz told reporters here.

The pro-independence Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) was
also cynical about the troop cut announcement.

"Where has such a reduction taken place? The people have not seen any
such reduction," said JKLF vice chairman Bashir Ahmad Bhat.

Senior hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Geelani, presently in Delhi
for an eye surgery, said over telephone: "We cannot say such a
reduction has taken place. Even if it has, how much difference would
reducing 30,000 troops make as 8 lakh Indian troops are deployed in
Kashmir," Geelani said.

The common man too feels withdrawing troops is a welcome step, but it
must be matched with the repeal of the AFSPA.

"As long as AFSPA remains in force, the deployed troopers enjoy
unbridled powers. The difference in the lives of the common people
would become visible only after AFSPA is withdrawn", said Mehraj-u-
Din, a 36-year-old fruit seller here.

Another resident said the continuation of AFSPA in Kashmir indicated
that the government felt that the situation in the state is still far
from normal.

"Normalcy means the troops must go back to their barracks and the
powers they have at present are withdrawn. As long as AFSPA continues,
the situation cannot be said to have improved for the better," said
Shabir Ahmad, an engineer.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/srinagar/Mainstream-politicians-welcome-Kashmir-troop-cut-separatists-cynical/Article1-488348.aspx

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:30:45 AM12/19/09

Zardari chairs crisis meeting; law minister's warrants withdrawn
PTI 19 December 2009, 06:40pm IST

ISLAMABAD: Political turmoil continued to grip Pakistan as a top
federal minister was forced to appear before a court on Saturday
following an arrest warrant issued against him in revived graft cases
and to tackle the crisis President Asif Ali Zardari chaired a meeting
of ruling PPP.

The court withdrew the non-bailable arrest warrant for federal law
minister Babar Awan, a beneficiary of an amnesty scrapped by the
Supreme Court, after he appeared before the judge and said he would
attend future hearings of a case against him.

Awan is among several ministers who have been affected by the striking
down of the NRO by the apex court.

An anti-corruption court in Karachi has directed interior minister
Rehman Malik to appear before it on January 8 while authorities barred
defence minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar from travelling to China on an
official visit on Thursday after the reopening of a graft probe
against him.

In a bid to head-off what could be worst political crisis of his 15-
month in power, Zardari summoned a meeting of the executive committee
of his ruling Pakistan People's Party to contemplate measures to save
his government.

The crisis meeting took place as Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani
suspended the interior secretary and three other officials after
authorities barred defence minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar from
travelling to China.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Zardari-chairs-crisis-meeting-law-ministers-warrants-withdrawn/articleshow/5356539.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:32:45 AM12/19/09

Investigate Zardari's 'Surrey Mahal': SC
ANI 19 December 2009, 01:17am IST

LONDON: Troubles for Pakistan president Asif Ali Zardari are getting
bigger by the day, as the supreme court has now asked the concerned
authorities to investigate as to how he purchased the 365-acre home
counties estate in the UK worth £4 million.

It is worth mentioning here that Zardari had purchased the mock Tudor
Rockwood Park in the 1990s , which was soon termed as “Surrey Mahal”
by the then opposition leaders.

Zardari is alleged to have spent more than £300,000 on renovations of
the 20-room mansion, including building his own private polo field and
an exact copy of the local village pub, the Telegraph reported on
Friday.

The apex court has ordered officials to ask the Swiss government to
reopen an investigation into whether the property was bought with
laundered money.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Investigate-Zardaris-Surrey-Mahal-SC/articleshow/5353835.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:34:33 AM12/19/09

Pakistan court orders arrest of interior minister
PTI 18 December 2009, 05:09pm IST

ISLAMABAD: A Pakistani anti-corruption court on Friday issued arrest
warrants for Interior Minister Rehman Malik, who is among 8,000
beneficiaries of a controversial graft amnesty struck down by the
Supreme Court.

Judge Mir Muhammad Shaikh of the accountability or anti-corruption
court in Karachi issued the arrest warrants against Malik in
connection with two graft cases that were closed under the National
Reconciliation Ordinance.

The cases relate to alleged misuse of authority and receipt of two
cars for ordering a contract to a firm.

The apex court declared the NRO void on Wednesday and directed
authorities to reopen corruption and criminal cases against over 8,000
people that were quashed under the law.

Authorities have already placed Malik's name on the interior
ministry's Exit Control List, a move that bars him from travelling
abroad.

The National Accountability Bureau, Pakistan's main anti-corruption
agency, has filed a petition in an anti-corruption court in Rawalpindi
for reviving cases against 19 people, including the Interior Minister,
that were withdrawn under NRO.

Another anti-corruption court in Lahore today issued notices to three
NRO beneficiaries, including ruling Pakistan People's Party secretary
general Jahangir Badr, who is a close aide of party chief and
President Asif Ali Zardari.

The notices directed the three persons to appear in the court on
December 23.

The notices were served after the National Accountability Bureau filed
a petition in the court in Lahore against 32 beneficiaries of the NRO,
including Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar and Zardari's mother-
in-law Nusrat Bhutto.

The court is expected to serve notices to the 29 others named in the
petition soon. Offices of NAB across Pakistan have taken steps to
revive cases that were quashed under NRO following the apex court's
verdict.

Defence Minister Mukhtar was yesterday barred from travelling to China
on an official visit because his name has been included in the Exit
Control List.

Meanwhile, Geo News channel reported that the Attorney General's
office has sought advice from the federal law ministry on implementing
the apex court's order to revive cases in Swiss courts against
Zardari.

The cases, relating to allegations that Zardari and his slain wife,
former premier Benazir Bhutto, stashed millions of dollars in
kickbacks in Swiss bank accounts, were closed under NRO on the
directions of former military ruler Pervez Musharraf.

Geo News channel quoted its sources as saying that the Attorney
General's office had written to the Law Secretary seeking advice on
the steps to be taken to implement the Supreme Court's verdict.

Authorities have so far not taken any step to revive cases against
Zardari, who enjoys immunity from prosecution by virtue of holding the
post of President.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pakistan-court-orders-arrest-of-interior-minister/articleshow/5352025.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:36:15 AM12/19/09

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:38:06 AM12/19/09

Post court blow, calls for Zardari to go
Omer Farooq Khan, TNN 18 December 2009, 01:04am IST

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan supreme court’s decision to strike down an
amnesty, that protected the increasingly unpopular president, Asif Ali
Zardari, from graft charges has further weakened his shaky hold and
sharpened political tensions.

The court ruling on Wednesday would allow his opponents to challenge
his eligibility to hold office, despite the immunity he enjoys from
prosecution. Graft cases were pending against him when the amnesty was
adopted and the court ruled that it was unconstitutional, paving the
way for the criminal cases to be revived. Zardari benefited from the
amnesty along with several of his aides, including interior minister
Rehman Malik. Experts say Malik’s arrest is imminent.

The court singled out an investigation in a Swiss court into
allegations of money laundering against Zardari in 2006 and ordered
the government to ask authorities there to reopen the case. The Swiss
authorities had unblocked $60 million that were frozen after Pakistani
authorities said they weren’t pursuing the case.

The upheaval comes as Pakistan is embroiled in a surge in retaliatory
attacks in the aftermath of an offensive against the Taliban in their
stronghold of South Waziristan.

In a sign of what was in store, Pakistan’s anti-graft agency issued
arrest warrants against some of the amnesty beneficiaries and also got
their assets frozen. “About 248 people had also been barred from
leaving the country,” said agency spokesman Ghazni Khan. Former
president Pervez Musharraf introduced the amnesty as part of a power-
sharing deal with Benazir Bhutto. Zardari’s spokesperson rejected
calls for his ouster and maintained that charges against him were
motivated. “He was never convicted and there’s no reason for him to
step down,” the spokesperson said.

PM Yousaf Raza Gilani said the government was awaiting a detailed
judgment, but would respect the order. “The government has started
consulting the legal experts for its implementation,” he said.

Zardari’s archrival Nawaz Sharif-led Pakistan Muslim League was quick
to call for his resignation, saying that he was morally obligated to
do so, at least while the court heard any challenges to his rule.

The PML (N) has also called on Zardari to give up wide-reaching powers
inherited from Musharraf to sack the prime minister and dissolve
parliament. The opposition party is likely to mount pressure on
Zardari and launch a campaign against his government.

Experts say Zardari may be able to take some sting out of the attack
and survive if he gives up his powers. Amid mounting pressure, Zardari
had relinquished Pakistan’s nuclear command and said he would soon
give up more powers.

Constitutional expert justice (retd) Fakhruddin Ibrahim said Zardari
wasn’t out of the woods yet as the immunity wouldn’t cover the cases
abroad. “His lawyers can argue that no proceedings could be initiated
against Zardari in Pakistan, but the cases will be revived in other
countries like Switzerland,” he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Post-court-blow-calls-for-Zardari-to-go/articleshow/5349636.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:39:54 AM12/19/09

‘Pak is harassing US diplomats’
Jane Perlez & Eric Schmitt, NYT News Service

18 December 2009, 01:04am IST

ISLAMABAD: Parts of the Pakistani military and intelligence services
are mounting what American officials here describe as a campaign to
harass American diplomats, fraying relations at a critical moment when
the Obama administration is demanding more help to fight the Taliban
and al-Qaida.

The campaign includes the refusal to extend or approve visas for more
than 100 American officials and the frequent searches of US diplomatic
vehicles in major cities, said an American official briefed on the
cases.

The problems affected military attaches, CIA officers, development
experts, junior level diplomats and others, a senior American diplomat
said. As a result, some American aid programs to Pakistan, which
President Barack Obama has called a critical ally, are “grinding to a
halt”, the diplomat said.

Pakistani officials acknowledged the situation but said the menacing
atmosphere resulted from American arrogance and provocations, like
taking photographs in sensitive areas.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pak-is-harassing-US-diplomats-/articleshow/5349647.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 9:41:56 AM12/19/09

Coup denied as Pak minister blocked from leaving
REUTERS 18 December 2009, 01:18pm IST

ISLAMABAD: Rumours of a Pakistan coup sparked by a government minister
being barred from leaving the country were dismissed on Friday after
briefly causing flutters in financial markets.

Political tension has risen in Pakistan since the Supreme Court on
Wednesday struck down an amnesty that protected President Asif Ali
Zardari, several of his ministers and thousands of others from
corruption charges.

Zardari can still not be prosecuted because he is protected by
presidential immunity, but some opposition politicians have
nevertheless called on him to step down. His spokesman said he
wouldn't.

The prospect of political turmoil comes as the United States is
stepping up calls on Pakistan to tackle Afghan Taliban in lawless
border enclaves, where suspected U.S. drones on Thursday killed 12
fighters, Pakistani security agents said.

Rumours of a coup started, apparently, when Pakistan's ambassador to
the United States, Husain Haqqani, told CNN in response to questioning
about the defence minister being denied the right to leave that he

hoped there would not be a coup.

A spokesman for the state anti-graft agency said on Thursday that
after the amnesty had been lifted, the names of about 248 people had
been placed on a list of people barred from leaving the country.

The spokesman did not identify any of those on the list but the
president's spokesman, Farhatullah Babar, said Defence Minister
Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar, was one of them.

"Of course there is no coup," said Babar, in Islamabad, where life was
normal with no sign of any unusual activity in the chilly pre-dawn
hours.

"The name of the defence minister happens to be on the list and he was
not allowed to go," said Babar, adding he believed Mukhtar had been on
his way to China late on Thursday when stopped.

The coup rumours swirled briefly in forex markets.

The euro hit its lowest since March against the Swiss franc, often
considered a safe-haven currency, and the yen surged against the
dollar, euro and higher yielding Australian dollar as thin liquidity
set a chain reaction in motion.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Coup-denied-as-Pak-minister-blocked-from-leaving/articleshow/5351250.cms

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 19, 2009, 6:14:15 PM12/19/09

Graft-hit leaders to stay, says PPP

Malik: Party support

Islamabad, Dec. 19 (AP): Pakistan’s ruling party leaders insisted
today that they supported the President and would not oust other top
government officials after the Supreme Court struck down an amnesty
shielding them from corruption charges.

The Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) dismissed talk of any confrontation
with the judiciary, but defiant moves by party leaders since
Wednesday’s sweeping — and popular — court ruling has so deepened the
political turmoil that some analysts gave the government only months
to survive in its current form.

During a critical meeting of the PPP leadership tonight, party
officials told the media that they respected the courts and that
accused members were prepared to face any charges.

The leaders said they had full confidence in President Asif Ali
Zardari, who is constitutionally immune from prosecution in the graft
cases against him. “Mere accusations don’t mean a person is proven
guilty and on such a basis talk of resignations is not right,” said
Jahangir Badar, PPP secretary-general.

The leaders insisted that no cabinet minister affected by the loss of
the amnesty would be asked to quit — even to improve the party image.

Aside from resisting calls for the ouster of cabinet ministers, the
government has in recent days suspended officials who were carrying
out court orders and elevated one party member named in a graft case
to law minister. The moves came as anti-corruption courts issued
summons to more than 100 suspects, while the interior ministry issued
travel bans on 250.

“It’s not looking good for stability,” said Cyril Almeida, an opinion
writer for Dawn, a leading English-language newspaper. He ruled out a
military coup — something Pakistan is prone to — but said the events
have pitted “the political leadership that currently controls the
executive against the judiciary”.

Among the suspects summoned by anti-corruption courts are interior
minister Rehman Malik — a figure seen as close to the US — and
presidential secretary Salman Farooqi, court officials said.

Malik and defence minister Ahmed Mukhtar were among the 250 barred
from leaving the country following the supreme court’s decision.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1091220/jsp/foreign/story_11888380.jsp

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 20, 2009, 1:53:34 AM12/20/09

Zardari vows to 'fight back' SC verdict
PTI 20 December 2009, 11:20am IST

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s President Asif Ali Zardari on Sunday pledged to
fight back following the annulment of a graft amnesty by the Supreme
Court even as the ruling Pakistan People's Party said it had "complete
confidence" in his leadership.

The beleaguered President made a vow "to fight back" while chairing a
meeting of the PPP's central executive committee to review the fallout
of the apex court's decision to strike down the National
Reconciliation Ordinance.

The PPP "reposed full confidence" in Zardari's leadership and "vowed
to rally around him at a time when he is the target of criticism and
political attacks from all around and to put up a fierce fight in his
defence", Presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar said.

The party also decided that federal ministers facing graft charges
following the scrapping of the NRO by the apex court on Wednesday
would defend themselves in court instead of resigning.

Zardari said the PPP "will not be blackmailed into asking its
ministers to resign merely on the basis of accusations against them".

None of the accusations had been proved and there is no reason for
anyone to resign "until proved guilty of wrong doing", he said.

The PPP decided on its strategy to tackle the political crisis
confronting the government during the marathon meeting of its top
leadership, which began in the afternoon and continued till late in
the night.

Briefing the media on the meeting, senior party leader Jahangir Badr,
a close aide of Zardari, said: "The PPP is united on co-chairman
Zardari's leadership and reposes complete confidence in him.

"We respect the (apex) court's verdict but the cases (that are being
reopened) were filed as part of political revenge during (former
military ruler Pervez) Musharraf's regime because the PPP did not
accept him. We faced these cases in the past and will face them
again," Badr said.

Responding to questions on demands from the opposition for Zardari to
resign and the possible removal of the PPP-led federal government,
Badr said: "The geo-political situation in Pakistan makes it very
clear that anything other than democracy will lead to anarchy and
chaos."

Zardari said the PPP would "use democracy and constitutionalism as its
weapons to fight it adversaries and foil all conspiracies" against the
party.

Despite the hurdles put in its way, the PPP will continue "to
strengthen democracy... and will not be deterred by conspiracies
against it", he said.

He said he "foresaw many more conspiracies and onslaughts against the
PPP and added that none of the conspiracies will be allowed to
succeed".

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and senior party leaders like Aitzaz
Ahsan, Raza Rabbani, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar and
Safdar Abbasi attended the meeting.

Ahsan, one of Pakistan's leading lawyers, briefed the PPP leaders on
the fallout of the apex court's verdict.

Zardari and the PPP-led government are facing their worst political
crisis since coming to power last year due to the Supreme Court's
annulment of the NRO, which scrapped graft cases against over 8,000
people.

The President and several close allies, including Defence Minister
Mukhtar and Interior Minister Rehman Malik, benefited from the NRO.

The apex court's ruling came at a time when Zardari's popularity
ratings have hit rock bottom.

An anti-corruption court in Karachi has summoned Malik to appear
before it next month while the Defence Minister was barred from on an
official visit to China due to the reopening of a corruption probe
against him.

Zardari's aides have said the constitution grants him immunity from

prosecution by virtue of holding the post of President.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Zardari-vows-to-fight-back-SC-verdict/articleshow/5358152.cms

bademiyansubhanallah

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Dec 20, 2009, 1:59:31 AM12/20/09

TOP ARTICLE
Call Pakistan's Bluff
G D Bakshi18 December 2009, 12:00am IST

There are renewed intelligence inputs about the possibility of India
being the target of further terrorist attacks. The fencing of India's
land borders has had a major and palpable impact on the Pakistani
ISI's methodology for exporting terror and destabilising this country.
Fencing had helped curtail terrorism in Punjab and the same access
denial solution has worked well in J&K. With the extension of the
fence to Rajasthan, the degree of difficulty in infiltrating
personnel, arms and ammunition into India has increased
exponentially.

This clearly has prompted the ISI to revamp its terror offensive
strategy against India. This tactical shift was effected in 2007 and
its consequences became painfully visible in 2008, through a series of
high profile and mass casualty strikes in Jaipur, Ahmedabad, New
Delhi, Guwahati and Mumbai. The Mumbai mayhem unleashed an
unprecedented wave of public anger and indignation at the embarrassing
failure of the Indian state to protect the lives of its citizens.

The ISI's strategy is fairly explicit in hindsight. It has two clear
strands. The reduced porosity of land borders impelled the ISI to
place heavy reliance on the local Tanzeems with localised narratives.
These were trained not in PoK or Pakistan but in various jungle
locations within India. The emphasis was on greater deniability, which
would enable the Pakistani establishment to distance itself from these
actions. Salient characteristics of these Indian Mujahideen-initiated
strikes were using locally available explosive materials like ammonium
nitrate, hydrogen peroxide and slurry etc. The deliberate design was
to spread the terror war from J&K to the rest of India.

Local Tanzeems, however, could be easily penetrated and tracked down
by the Indian police and intelligence agencies. Most of the IM
operatives were swiftly rounded up after the terror strikes. This
seems to have compelled the ISI to exploit the sea flank to launch
meticulously planned sea-borne assaults using highly motivated and
well-trained west Punjabi operatives of the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

One year down the line we are again deluged with intelligence warnings
of another strike. What then are our response options? One would have
thought that with so much on its plate, the Pakistani establishment
would not be keen to open other fronts. India would be equally happy
to let Pakistan focus its energies on draining the terrorist swamp it
has created. What then could be the Pakistani motivations for a
resumption of its terrorist assault on India?

The military-ISI duo that calls the shots in Pakistan appears to be
under severe pressure due to the ongoing global offensive against
terrorism. Twenty-eight per cent of its rank and file are ethnic
Pathans who are seriously affected by the ongoing operations in Swat
and Federally Administered Tribal Areas. Is Pakistan seeking an
eastern diversion that can repair the fast deepening Punjabi-Pashtun
faultline and enable it to call off the global offensive? Whatever be
the motivations, a renewed Pakistani terrorist assault in India
translates into mass casualties.

ISI's asymmetric assault against India started in 1983. For almost
three decades India has surrendered the strategic and tactical
initiative to Pakistan. We have waged a purely defensive battle on our
own territory. Such a reactive and passive stance was understandable
in the era of the 1990s when we were trying to revive and liberalise
our failing economy. But that stance is unsustainable beyond a point.
It calls into question the Indian state's will to safeguard its vital
national interests and the life of its citizens.

How do we transit to a proactive phase to deter further Indian
casualties? First, the state needs to send out a clear communication
that such terrorist attacks and resulting Indian casualties are no
longer acceptable. Second, we must rapidly deploy dominant war
fighting capabilities that can deter Pakistan's asymmetric
adventurism. India must also hasten its defence acquisition process.
Finally, we must remember that the primary flaw of Operation Parakram
was it's all-or-nothing mission. India needs to evolve and enunciate a
declaratory doctrine for limited wars against a nuclear backdrop. This
must aim at raising costs for Pakistan's sponsorship of terrorism.

The initial response to Pakistan-sponsored terror attacks could be air
power and naval power or special forces centric. These should be just,
focused, precise and proportionate responses that serve as warning
shots and place the onus of further escalation squarely on Pakistan.

It is time India called Pakistan's nuclear bluff. Kargil clearly
highlighted that there is no one-step nuclear escalation ladder in
South Asia. The weight of deterrence in Pakistani military thinking is
premised on its perceived parity in conventional military force with
that of India's. This must be addressed on an urgent basis. Frankly it
would be far better for India to deter such an attack than deal with
its consequences. Deterrence, however, mandates a clear communication
of resolve to respond. It is here that well-intentioned declarations
of peaceful intent and abhorrence for war from our leadership could
unfortunately have the opposite effect of inviting more such attacks.

The writer is a retired major general of the Indian army.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Call-Pakistans-Bluff/articleshow/5348555.cms

Alex

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Dec 20, 2009, 2:10:46 AM12/20/09

To solve problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan, first amend their
constitutions to a Westminster system with appointed president who has
to do self cultivation. That is to meditate and on vegetarian diet.

If you read Saul, David and the kings in the Bible, the message is
very clear. The head-of-state pure, the country will be well run. If
head-of-state evil, the country will suffer. So the Westminster system
with appointed president is the best.

> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Call-Pakist...

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 22, 2009, 5:17:04 PM12/22/09

5th ceasefire violation as Pak troops fire at two border posts
Agencies

Posted: Tuesday , Dec 22, 2009 at 0956 hrs
Jammu:

Pak troops opened firing at around 2240 hrs at Kandral border outpost,
drawing retaliation from Indian side.

BSF foiled major infiltration bids by militants to cross into Indian
territory as Pakistani troops fired at two forward posts in the Samba
sector in the wee hours on Tuesday, in the fifth case of ceasefire
violation within a week.

A BSF patrol party noticed some movement of militants at two posts - S
M Pur and S M Pur-one - in Ramgarh subsector of Samba and challenged
the militants, police officials said.

Pakistani troops then opened fire and the BSF retaliated and the
exchange between the two sides continued intermittently for half-an-
hour.The militants later fled.

Inspector General of BSF, Jammu frontier, A K Sarolia said a red alert
has been sounded in the entire border line with Pakistan and
patrolling intensified.

The militants, he said, did not succeed in infiltrating into Jammu and
Kashmir.

Pakistani troops had also opened fire at around 2240 hrs last night at
Kandral border outpost along the international border, drawing
retaliation from BSF personnel.

In a pre-dawn attack on Sunday, border outposts at Londi and Bobiya
were targeted and at a flag meeting held. India had lodged its protest
against ceasefire violation.

On Saturday, a BSF jawan was killed and two others were injured in
cross border firing at Kranti post near LOC in Poonch.

There have been 28 incidents of such ceasefire violations till
November 25 by Pakistan along the Line of Control.

During the last four years there have been 129 incidents of ground
ceasefire and 43 air space violations by Pakistan.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/5th-ceasefire-violation-as-pak-troops-fire-at-two-border-posts/557696/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 23, 2009, 5:40:55 PM12/23/09

Pakistan Taliban ‘helping’ beef up Afghan fight

Thousands cross border to counter U.S. troop surge, commander claims

Top Pakistani Taliban commander Waliur Rehman, left, gives an
interview to the Associated Press in the Shaktoi area of South
Waziristan, Pakistan on Monday.

updated 6:30 a.m. ET, Wed., Dec . 23, 2009

SHAKTOI, Pakistan - Thousands of Pakistani Taliban fighters have been
sent to neighboring Afghanistan to rebuff incoming U.S. troops, a top
Pakistani Taliban commander said. The claim comes as a Pakistani army
offensive is believed to have pushed many of his men to flee their
main redoubt.

Waliur Rehman told The Associated Press in an exclusive interview
Monday night that the Pakistani Taliban remain committed to battling
the army in South Waziristan tribal region, but that they are
essentially waging a guerrilla war.

Rehman is a deputy to Pakistani Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud, and
the man in charge of the group's operations in South Waziristan.

"Since (President Barack) Obama is also sending additional forces to
Afghanistan, we sent thousands of our men there to fight NATO and
American forces," Rehman said. The Afghan "Taliban needed our help at
this stage, and we are helping them."

Col. Wayne Shanks, a U.S. military spokesman in Afghanistan, called
Rehman's comments "rhetoric" that were not to be believed.

"We have not noticed any significant movement of insurgents in the
border area," he said.

Either stance is nearly impossible to independently verify. Access to
the tribal belt, especially conflict zones, is severely restricted.
Pakistani army spokesmen could not immediately be reached for comment.

First interview

Rehman spoke in a large mud-brick compound in the Shaktoi area of
South Waziristan.

He looked relaxed as a he sat on a carpet surrounded by seven rifle-
toting guards and Azam Tariq, a Taliban spokesman. It was apparently
the first time either he or Hakimullah Mehsud had given an in-person
interview to a journalist since the Pakistani military launched the
ground offensive on Oct. 17.

To meet Rehman, the AP reporter traveled to North Waziristan's town of
Mir Ali and from there was taken by Taliban militants on a six-hour
ride to South Waziristan in a vehicle with tinted windows.

The army sent some 30,000 troops to battle as many as 10,000 militants
in South Waziristan, including hundreds of Uzbek fighters. The
military estimates it has killed around 600 Taliban fighters. Rehman
claimed he'd lost fewer than 20 fighters.

But many of the Pakistani Taliban militants are believed to have fled
to other parts of the tribal belt, a semiautonomous stretch of rugged
territory that runs along the Afghan border. Most were believed to
have gone to North Waziristan, Orakzai and Kurram tribal areas.

The military has launched airstrikes in the latter two regions in
recent weeks, and a full offensive might be in the works there.

Rehman, considered to be the strategic brains behind the Pakistani
Taliban, said most of his fighters had reached Afghanistan and that he
didn't need that many insurgents to take on the military in South
Waziristan.

He said Hakimullah Mehsud was "not far away" and safe. Hakimullah
Mehsud took over the extremist network in August after a U.S. missile
strike killed former commander Baitullah Mehsud.

Claim that bin Laden lives

Earlier this week, fliers signed by Mehsud appeared in North
Waziristan warning Taliban fighters taking refuge there not to cause
problems. It appeared to be an attempt to keep peace with other
militants in that region — some of whom have truces with the
government.

Rehman also said his group would stop attacking Pakistani forces if
Pakistan would sever its ties to the United States.

Since October, militants have launched numerous attacks throughout
Pakistan in a wave of violence that has killed more than 500 people,
many of them civilians.

"We would again become Pakistan's brother if Pakistan ends its support
for America," he said. He claimed that the Taliban only attacked
security forces and disavowed any strikes on civilian targets.

Rehman urged President Barack Obama to focus on shoring up the
beleaguered U.S. economy. "He should know that Americans don't want
war," Rehman said. "He should use this money for the welfare of his
own people."

He further claimed that Osama bin Laden was safe and alive, but that
he had never met the al-Qaida chief in person. Pakistani officials
have long cast doubt on suggestions that bin Laden is hiding in the
tribal belt.

"I know he is in touch with his people and he is communicating with
them to convey his instructions," Rehman said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34570470/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 23, 2009, 6:27:39 PM12/23/09

Kashmir autonomy ball in PM court
MUZAFFAR RAINA

Srinagar, Dec. 23: A working group appointed by Prime Minister
Manmohan Singh has recommended “autonomy to the extent possible” for
Jammu and Kashmir.

“The question of autonomy and its demand can be examined in the light
of the Kashmir accord or in some other manner or on the basis of some
other formula as the present Prime Minister may deem fit and
appropriate so as to restore the autonomy to the extent possible,” the
group headed by former Supreme Court judge Saghir Ahmad has said in
response to a demand from, the National Conference (NC).

Autonomy is the principal demand of the NC, the state’s biggest
mainstream political party that in 2000 passed a resolution in the
Assembly in its favour. The demand was summarily rejected by the NDA
government, saying it was “anti-national”.

State law minister and NC leader Ali Mohammad Sagar said his
department was examining the recommendations. “They have used the term
Kashmir accord and it needs to be ascertained which the pact the group
is referring to,” he said.

The autonomy resolution provided for complete autonomy and only four
segments -- defence, foreign policy, currency and communications –
were to be kept with the Centre. It also sought changing the
nomenclature of chief minister and governor to Prime Minister and
Sadar-e-Riyasat (President), respectively.

Jammu and Kashmir enjoyed these powers and privileges during the early
1950s but there was considerable erosion in the years that followed.

In 2006, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had set up five working groups
to resolve the issues confronting the state on the eve of the second
round table conference on Kashmir. It was then decided to take up
these reports in the third -- yet to be organised -- round table.

The separatists had refused to participate in the conference,
insisting that mainstream parties had no role to play in a Kashmir
solution.

Four working groups had already submitted their reports but the fifth,
which had the most important job of determining New Delhi ’s relations
with Srinagar, was submitted to chief minister Omar Abdullah today
after a long delay because of differences among the political
parties.

The group, in another significant recommendation, has given the people
of Jammu and Kashmir the right to determine the fate of Article 370,
which grants a special status.

“It is for the people of J&K to decide how long to continue Article
370 in its present form and when to make it permanent or abrogate. The
matter being 60 years old, should be settled once an for all,” the
report said, rejecting the demand of the BJP to scrap the provision.

The report, though accepting the demand of autonomy, has left the
options open on the People’s Democratic Party’s self-rule proposal.

“It (self-rule) appears to relate to autonomy in a wider context,
which requires to be considered by the central government if and when
approached with documents containing specific proposals of the self
rule,” the report says, arguing the PDP had not presented the document
containing its various aspects during the course of the proceedings.

PDP’s Muzaffar Baig said they had an impression that more meetings
with the working group were due, the reason they couldn’t submit the
self-rule proposal.

The report has come as a disappointment for several political
organisations in Jammu and Ladakh.

The working group has rejected the demand for Union territory status
for Ladakh. “It is not recommended that the unity and integrity of the
state of Jammu and Kashmir be compromised and the Union territory
status for Ladakh is not recommended,” he said.

The demand for delimitation of Assembly seats raised by Jammu-based
parties, which could have allowed more seats for Jammu has not been
accepted.

“Since there is a constitutional constraint to make any changes till
the year 2026, as a new Delimitation Commission can be set up only
thereafter, the present position may continue,” Justice Saghir has
said.

On the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, which gives unbridled powers
to forces in arresting or killing people, the working group has said
that a group of central and state officials and people’s
representatives may be constituted which will review the application
of the act to various parts of the state regularly to explore the
possibility whether the act can be withdrawn from any part of the
State.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1091224/jsp/nation/story_11903574.jsp

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 24, 2009, 6:18:18 AM12/24/09

Deaths in Peshawar suicide blast

Police said at least three civilians were among those killed in the
attack on Thursday [AFP]

A suicide bomber has killed at least five people and injured many more
in Pakistan's northwestern city of Peshawar, after detonating
explosives near an army and police checkpoint, police say.

The blast occurred on Thursday on the city's busy Mall Road, home to
government offices, banks and private companies, an all-girls school,
and a military residential district.

The bomber was targeting the military residences and approached the
checkpoint by foot, Al Jazeera's Imran Khan reported quoting Pakistani
police.

"To get into that area, you have to go through three layers of
security. The bomber got to the first layer of security, where he blew
himself up," he said.

Initial reports said three civilians were among those killed in the
blast, while around 26 people were injured.

"It's very typical of the attacks that we've seen the Pakistani
Taliban claim responsibility for," our correspondent said.

The bomb site is close to a church, where Pakistan's Christian
minority were preparing to celebrate Christmas.

Possible targets

Pakistan has stepped up security during the holy Muslim month of
Muharram, in the run-up to the Shia mourning period of Ashura, and one
of Peshawar's largest Shia mosques is also located nearby.

"There were several targets," Sahibzada Mohammad Anis, the highest-
level Peshawar administration official, said.

"It could have been a Pakistan International Airlines building or a
Shia mosque. There are also several shopping malls in this area."

Hukam Dad Khan, a bomb-disposal expert, said the attacker was wearing
a vest packed with explosives, nails and steel pellets.

"The suicide bomber was trying to cross the checkpoint," Mohammad
Karim Khan, a police officer, told AFP.

"He was on foot. Police stopped him and he blew himself up."

The attack comes two days after a teenage suicide bomber attacked a
journalists' club in the city, killing three people.

Recent attacks

A suicide bomber struck outside a court in Peshawar, killing 11
people, on December 7.

On October 28, a huge car bombing destroyed a market killing 125
people.

Eighteen bomb blasts have struck the city in the last three months,
most of them blamed on Taliban fighters.

A wave of attacks have occurred in Pakistan since October, as fighters
apparently retaliate for an army offensive against the Taliban.

The attacks have killed more than 500 people.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/12/200912246252196392.html

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 24, 2009, 6:22:42 AM12/24/09

Justice Sagir report ignores Jammu and Ladakh: BJP
STAFF WRITER 14:58 HRS IST

Jammu, Dec 24 (PTI) Criticising Justice (Retd) Sagir Ahmed's report on
Centre-state relations, Jammu and Kashmir BJP today said it has
ignored the sentiments of people of Jammu and Ladakh.

"The report submitted by the Secretary of the commission to Chief
Minister Omar Abdullah has totally ignored the demand of Jammu-based
MLAs seeking an increase in number of Assembly seats, setting up of
delimitation commission and reducing term of assembly to five years to
bring it at par with other assemblies of the country," president Ashok
Khajuria told PTI.

Instead the report says that the Constitutional provision did not
allow any change in number of assembly seats upto 2026, he said adding
this recommendation directly affects the imbalance between Kashmir and
Jammu in terms of representation in the assembly.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/438775_Justice-Sagir-report-ignores-Jammu-and-Ladakh--BJP

Sid Harth

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Dec 24, 2009, 9:39:55 AM12/24/09

Pak court rejects asylum petition for 5 American Muslims
PTI 24 December 2009, 06:42pm IST

LAHORE: A Pakistani court today dismissed a petition seeking asylum in
the name of 'holy war' for five American Muslim youths recently
arrested in the country for allegedly planning terror attacks, saying
that it was not the duty of the judiciary to define 'jihad'.

The Lahore High Court dismissed the petition filed by Khalid Khwaja, a
former Inter-Services Intelligence official now associated with a
rights organisation.

In his petition, Khwaja had contended that the youths came to Pakistan
for 'jihad' (holy war) and since this was not a crime, their detention
is illegal.

Lahore High Court Chief Justice Khwaja Mohammad Sharif, who heard the
petition, observed that it was not the duty of the court to define
'jihad'. The judge did not comment further and dismissed the
petition.

Khwaja also asked the court to direct authorities to grant the youths
asylum in Pakistan as the US administration might "not spare them".

He claimed the accused are innocent of any wrongdoing, either through
their actions or intentions.

"They are being suspected of a crime they never committed nor ever
intended to commit. In such a case, the US constitution protects all
its citizens of wrongful accusations and wrongful imprisonment.

We must have faith in our system of laws that they will seek out truth
and deliver justice," Khwaja said in his petition.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pak-court-rejects-asylum-petition-for-5-American-Muslims-/articleshow/5374781.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 25, 2009, 10:05:39 AM12/25/09

Pakistani security forces kill 14 Taliban militants
STAFF WRITER 18:46 HRS IST

Islamabad, Dec 25 (PTI) Pakistani security forces backed by fighter
jets today pounded Taliban hideouts in Orakzai and Swat regions in the
restive north-west killing 14 militants and injuring eight others,
officials said.

Fighter jets bombed militant hideouts in the Orakzai tribal region and
killed 10 militants. Eight others were injured when the jets dropped
bombs, officials said.

Two hideouts and four vehicles were destroyed.

Officials said the aircraft targeted militant hideouts but local
residents claimed women and children were among the dead and injured.

Four militants were killed in fierce clashes with security forces in
the northwestern Swat valley this morning, officials said.

Troops launched an operation in the area after getting intelligence
reports about the presence of militants.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said earlier this month that
security forces could launch an operation in Orakzai Agency.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/440582_Pakistani-security-forces-kill-14-Taliban-militants

Sid Harth

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Dec 25, 2009, 2:22:49 PM12/25/09

NEW DELHI, December 26, 2009
BJP rejects J&K autonomy panel report
Vinay Kumar

The Hindu A file photo of BJP leader Arun Jaitley

The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Friday rejected the report of the
Prime Minister’s Working Group, which has recommended autonomy for
Jammu and Kashmir, saying it was an “improperly prepared” document
intended to convey the government’s willingness to “dilute” its
position on the State.

In a letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, senior BJP leader and
Leader of Opposition in the Rajya Sabha Arun Jaitley, who was a member
of the Working Group, said the Centre should not act on the report on
the “sensitive political issue” having bearing on national sovereignty
as it was not based on consensus but “unilaterally authored.”

He said the last meeting of the 21-member Working Group, headed by
former Supreme Court Judge Justice Saghir Ahmed and including leaders
of political parties, was held on September 3, 2007 and the Group was
virtually abandoned since then.

“What was the compulsion to bypass the Working Group and produce the
report? It is surprising that this Group has come out with the report
on various important and sensitive issues,” Mr. Jaitley said.

He contended that it was “improper for a retired judge to have drafted
a report on sensitive political subjects impinging on national
sovereignty, that too two years after the last meeting of the Group
without bothering to discuss it with any member” of the committee.

“I have an uneasy feeling that the government wants to show to some
sections of the international community that it is willing to dilute
the Indian position on Jammu and Kashmir. Is this report showcased for
that purpose?”

Arguing that a “judge by training is not competent” to comment on
sensitive political issues, he said a judge “can only adjudicate
issues that are judicially determinable” and that “it is an improper
practice to drag judges into the political thicket.”

In the Group comprising representatives of the Congress, the BJP, the
National Conference, the PDP, the Panthers Party and groups of various
Kashmiri Pandits, “no consensus could ever be possible,” Mr. Jaitley
said.

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article70649.ece

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 25, 2009, 6:15:31 PM12/25/09

Bihar cops thrash Jamia professor, brand him 'Naxal'
Pranava K Chaudhary, TNN 26 December 2009, 12:40am IST

PATNA: Associate professor at Jamia Millia Islamia, Rahul Ramagundam,
was assaulted, abused and branded a Naxalite by Bihar police for
daring to ask the cops why the hutments belonging to Musahars -- among
the most backward of Scheduled Castes -- were being demolished.

Ramagundam, who teaches at Dr K R Narayanan Centre for Dalit and
Minorities Studies at JMI, was thrashed and abused and called a
Naxalite by Khagaria police at Amausi village. His local companion was
also manhandled and beaten up by lathi-wielding police constables and
officers. The incident took place on December 22.

"How could asking just one question lead to such physical violence?
How can one be called a Naxalite and assaulted and humiliated like
this," asked Ramagundam.

Amausi had hit headlines on October 1 when 16 villagers, mostly OBCs
(Kurmi), were killed allegedly by Musahars. The village has some 300
Musahar families who live in thatched huts.

"On December 22, I rode pillion on the motorbike of Varun Choudhry, a
grassroots activist with Khagaria-based NGO Samta, to go to Amausi.
When we reached, the village was in turmoil. The cops were breaking
thatched houses of people who were said to be absconding. Shankar
Sada, whom Varun met in the village, took us to the place where the
police party had camped before taking up the rip-and-strip job,"
Ramagundam said.

"Just as we spoke, a police party arrived and pulled down the thatched
roof and walls of a hut. I couldn't control myself. I asked the cops
if they had any written orders to pull down the houses of the
absconding accused.

"A tall uniformed man stared at me. Instead of answering, he asked me
my identity. I teach in Delhi, I told him. 'Name?' I told him.
'Father's name?' I told him. But even before I could take out my
identity card, he turned hostile. By then, I was surrounded by the
rest of the cops. They roughed me up and thrashed my colleague, Varun,
who suffered a fracture," said Ramagundam.

"They had guns. A constable in green fatigues called me a Naxalite and
moved menacingly to break the cordon around me," he said.

After meeting Khagaria SP Anusya Rannsingh Sodhi, Ramagundam lodged a
complaint asking whether people had the right to ask police for
written orders before dismantling houses of the "poorest of the
poor".

The Khagaria SP said she would conduct an inquiry and take appropriate
action. She added that she would not take action against anyone merely
on the basis of Ramagundam's statement. Ramagundam is author of two
books, 'Defeated Innocence' on the Adivasi struggle for land rights in
Madhya Pradesh in 2001 and 'Gandhi's Khadi: A History of Contention
and Conciliation'.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Bihar-cops-thrash-Jamia-professor-brand-him-Naxal/articleshow/5379196.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 26, 2009, 12:31:48 AM12/26/09

Home / News / World / Asia 5 Va. men may face terror charge
Pakistani officials say group wanted to join Al Qaeda
By Shaiq Hussain
Washington Post / December 26, 2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Authorities said yesterday that they plan to
recommend criminal charges against the five Virginia men recently
arrested in this country, a development that could delay or prevent
the men’s handover to the United States.

The five have been in detention since their arrest two weeks ago, but
they have not yet been criminally charged. A senior police official in
the city of Sargodha, where the men were arrested, said investigators
had concluded the five intended to join extremist organizations and
“get involved in terrorist acts.’’

Police plan to recommend terrorism charges to the court once their
investigation has concluded, said the official, Tahir Gujar. The
decision on whether to prosecute ultimately will be made by the court.

Terrorism charges, if proven, could lead to lifetime prison sentences.
A US Embassy spokesman in Islamabad declined to comment on the
developments and referred questions to the Justice Department.

US officials have said in the past that the men are likely to be
deported to the United States, where they also could face criminal
prosecution.

The men, who range in age from 18 to 24, left the United States
shortly after Thanksgiving without the knowledge of their parents, who
later alerted authorities that they were missing.

Pakistani police and intelligence officials have said the men - Ramy
Zamzam, 22; Ahmad A. Minni, 20; Umar Chaudhry, 24; Waqar Khan, 22; and
Aman Hassan Yemer, 18 - were in contact for months with a Taliban
recruiter.

Yesterday, a local court in Sargodha granted police 10 more days to
hold the men for additional questioning. A police official, Amir
Abbas, told the judge that the students had mentioned a Pakistani
nuclear power plant in northwest Punjab Province in a saved message in
their joint e-mail account, but said more evidence needed to be
collected.

Officials say the men hoped to join Al Qaeda and work with jihadist
groups to battle US-led forces across the border in Afghanistan, an
aspiration that their D.C.-area friends and religious advisers have
said they never detected.

The detainees are accused of using Facebook and YouTube to try to
connect with extremist groups in Pakistan.

“We have seized maps of a Pakistan air force base in Sargodha and some
sensitive installations at Chashma Barrage outside the town,’’ police
official Nazir Ahmad said yesterday, according to the Associated
Press. The Chashma Barrage includes a major water reservoir and large
power plants that were installed by China.

Ahmad said police are trying to track down a Taliban recruiter called
Saifullah whom they allege was in touch with the five suspects, AP
reported.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2009/12/26/5_virginia_men_may_face_terror_charge_in_pakistan/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 26, 2009, 4:58:10 AM12/26/09

Rajasthan Govt dithers on action against officers involved in
gunrunning racket
Satya Prakash, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, December 25, 2009

First Published: 21:24 IST(25/12/2009)
Last Updated: 21:28 IST(25/12/2009)

Even as the Defence Ministry acts against senior Army officers in
illegal sale of prohibited weapons and imported arms to criminals,
several Rajasthan government officers allegedly involved in the
gunrunning scandal are roaming free for over two years for want of
sanction to prosecute them.

According to an affidavit filed in the Supreme Court by Sriganganagar
Additional Superintendent of Police Rajan Dushyant, sanction for
prosecution was yet to be obtained against as many as 23 officials,
including former Additional District Magistrates of Sriganganagar
Rajendra Makkar and Lalchand Okha. Dushyant is the officer-in-charge
appointed by the state government in the case.

These officials allegedly connived with gun dealers and criminals and
by taking improper advantage of their official position did the
illegal works pertaining to bore alteration, change of address,
permission for additional weapon without police report and
verification of address.

The affidavit has been filed in response to a public-interest petition
filed in 2007 by advocate Arvind Kumar Sharma seeking a CBI probe into
the gunrunning scandal, allegedly involving army and Rajasthan
Government officials. Sharma alleged that ‘prohibited/Non Service
Pattern (NSP)bore weapons obtained from army personnel through the
Central Ordnance Depot, Jabalpur were being sold to the general public
and criminals in violation of the Arms Act, 1959.

Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the Rajya Sabha on December 3 that
action had been initiated against retired and serving Army officers,
including two Major Generals and two Brigadiers for selling NSP
weapons illegally in grey market. Antony said administrative/
disciplinary action had been initiated against 41 Army officers, a
junior commissioned officer and four retired Army officers for selling
NSP weapons in violation of rules.

Earlier, the Defence Ministry had admitted before the SC that senior
Army officers were involved in the scandal. The headquarters, South
Western Command had ordered the court of inquiry three days after the
Hindustan Times first reported on September 5, 2007 that Indian Army
officers had been selling their personal weapons illegally in the grey
market with the help of a cartel of ammunition dealers in border
districts of Rajasthan.

The Army’s action against its officers was based on a list (of those
involved in the scandal) provided by Sriganganagar District Collector.
Interestingly, the state government has yet to grant sanction to
prosecute its own officers allegedly involved in the scandal.

According to the affidavit, in one of the seven cases (FIR No. 237/07,
P.S. Kotgate, Bikaner), “the original record of Harisharan Vyaparik
Pratisthan, Bikaner has not been available yet and due to want of
same, the records of other gun dealers could not be matched with stock
register and sale register.

The various gun-dealers relating to the…case are yet to be summoned
and investigated/interrogated.” This happened after the file of the
case was handed over to Special and Economic Offence, CID, C.B.,
Rajasthan, Jaipur “as per the directions of higher officials.”

The Rajasthan government has already admitted before the court that
hundreds of illegal arms licences were issued to criminal elements,
including those from Punjab, in the border district of Sriganganagar
in connivance with state officials. In March 2009, the state
government had admitted before SC that irregularities had been found
in 325 cases, out of which 227 licences had been cancelled and 98
cases were under consideration.

In at least 41 cases, arms licences were illegally issued to persons
with a criminal background from Punjab after Ferozepur authorities
refused to issue/renew their licences, the state had admitted.

The Sriganganagar police had registered seven cases in this regard,
wherein two additional district magistrates and employees of the
district collector’s office were made accused and the matter was
probed by the CID (CB). But chargesheets had not been filed in three
of these cases either the investigations were on or for want of
sanction to prosecute the accused.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/newdelhi/Rajasthan-Govt-dithers-on-action-against-officers-involved-in-gunrunning-racket/Article1-490568.aspx

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 26, 2009, 5:26:23 AM12/26/09

'True patriot' Imran Khan turns 'messiah' for Pakistan's Taliban
ANI Saturday, December 26, 2009 14:34 IST

Lahore: The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan's (TTP) Swat chapter has said
that it is ready to accept the Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf (PTI) chairman
Imran Khan as a mediator for talks with the government in order to
restore peace in the region.

In his taped message, Swat Taliban commander Nooruddin Muhammad alias
Abu Akash described Imran as a 'true patriot'. Muhammad said Imran is
a 'pro-Muslim politician', whom the Taliban can trust as an
intermediary.

"Unlike other politicians, Imran hasn't sold out his soul. His Qibla
is still the holy Ka'aba," the commander said in his Pashto language
message. Muhammed said the Taliban's main policy is to stop the
Pakistan government from toeing the US' line.

"We are Pakistanis and we don't want to harm our country. Our
objection is to the government's policy of toeing the US line and
fighting its own people at the behest of America," The News quoted
Muhammed, as saying.

"They (political leaders) should learn a lesson from the fate of
Musharraf who too followed the American agenda. Unfortunately,
Pakistan is ruled by politicians who live in Washington and London
before coming to power and go back to these places after losing
power," he added.

He blamed the Central Investigation Agency (CIA) and the Indian
intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) for the recent
terror strikes in shopping markets and other public places, and said
that the militants only attacked security forces and law-enforcement
agencies in retaliation after their homes were bombed and their family
members were killed in military operations.

Muhammed also rejected reports about Swat Taliban chief Mullah
Fazlullah's death and said is safe and has taken refuge in a secure
place.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_true-patriot-imran-khan-turns-messiah-for-pakistan-s-taliban_1327708

Jiten

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Dec 27, 2009, 7:17:14 AM12/27/09

FAO: Sid Harth the One

My campaign in U.K has been going on for over thirty-years, 30+saal.
All are welcome to let the British High & Low commissions know that
our kith & kin (including both my elder brothers, deceased, who held
the King's Commission), put our lives on the line in their World Wars;
but NOT for the host of Jewish/Xtian culprits named:

Below is a copy of what I distribute to the public here in U.K :
Ex-zionist Indian father's 30+years campaign in UK: Jews
prove Hitler right

Let loose dogs of the just COPS Gazette
Editor/publisher (40yrs): Jiten Bardwaj

For all but forty years I have been naming the culprits, mostly Jewish
aka wadjua – white as death juden uber alles – and distributing CG
whether contesting elections to parliament or not. Jews ‘legally’ tore
apart my young family and usurped our house, followed by their leak-
proof cover-up of perverting the course of justice.

Miracles have saved me from legal brutalities: from being certified
insane, ‘life’ in Pentonville prison etc. The court clerks, Tunstall
in Luton, a nameless young fogey in St Albans and Paul Fellingham in
Herts (Stevenage), all excelled each other in colluding with police
and Jews to keep on slapping trumped-up charges on me. [Paul Felli’m
is still going-on].

My last two forays in the parliamentary by-elections were: Brent East
in 2003, Leicester South in 2004.

Gerry Silver was the sole ‘expert finance witness’ in the usurpation
of our house, (otherwise not one witness was on the other side, not
even my wife in the divorce proceedings, I had three witnesses, all
English-born and bred). The nazified legalese was engineered by
lawyers Nathan Miller (apartheid-born and trained South African Jew)
of Miller & Co, then by David Young of Williams & Co of Ampthill Beds,
their counsels were Francis Phillimore and Ms C Miskin -versus- me.

Fast forward to 30+years, I was hauled-up to the Stevenage court (Paul
Fellingham perverts the course of justice as do the magistrates). I
was charged with the alleged offence of doing more than 30mph on the
A505, Letchworth. I appeared at the court on 24 Nov 06. But no police
there, nor any excuse. Magistrates adjourned the hearing despite my
objections. I am no danger to the public, with more than fifty years
of blameless driving.

The next hearing was set for 15 Feb 2007. Again no police in court!
The magistrates postpone the case yet again, the police and they
themselves are above the law. The third go was on 4 June 2007, the
magistrates were threatening me with warnings. A person was already in
the witness box, no name was given and there were no papers or photos
to show, nothing except the continuing warnings to me.

What brand of British justice is this, for I was found guilty. Is it
for such racist nonsense that millions of my kith & kin put their
lives on the line to help Britain win both world wars? I had turned-
out for the Six-day war.
Next stop Crown Court Luton on 19 Oct 07, what a carry-on. No evidence
was taken, nor was there any note from Felli'ham about the 4-June-
fantomime in his court.

I had hired a lawyer who hired a barrister PeHoofer? who advised me to
withdraw the appeal which I did for I could not follow the legalese.
If this was my disqualification for a year, why did the police not
arrest me any day in the next Ten Months? For suddenly am arrested
twice in a few weeks after ten months had gone.
On 29 August 08 I was arrested and hand-cuffed by PC Clawson of
Stevenage, why? Because of driving while disqualified! No court had
sent me a letter to say I was disqualified to drive for a year, nor
the DVLA told me to return my driving license, for I still had it on
me and showed it to the PC, nor did any court inform the motor
insurance world that my car insurance is cancelled forthwith.
I was released later that night and rescued my car after the weekend,
upon paying close to £150. A court hearing date was set.
On 26 Sept 08 I was arrested in Cambridge by PC Kinsey and his
sidekick. I showed them the driving license. Here no hand-cuffs but
Kinsey was chuffed-up, having got a coloured locked-up in police cell.
My car was sent miles away northwards. Kinsey had imposed a special
condition of his own making before I could get my car back, if ever.
That put paid to my car, hope he got a grand-cut from the sale of it.
He is destined to fill the London police top post that is vacant. [No
more]

Verdict of guilty against me in Cambridge court on 10 Nov, Ms C Blower
the clerk was in her element, I was given another year’s
disqualification and fines. This time the DVLA was prompt in demanding
the return of my driving license which I did.

Amazing how lies upon nazi Jews/Xtian British lies can make a small
fortune for liars in the courts, police and the civilian keepers of
the cars seized by the police. It keeps the (skin) colourful in their
place except yours truly, its safer to shout from roof-top.

Here be names of some more strip-, oop, cover-up artistes, of crimes
against me: QCs Leon Britain, Michael Howard & Lord Janner, Rt Hons
Jack Straw, David Blunket, Jackie Smith; MPs Marion Roe, O Heald, P
Lilley, David Howarth,* et al. (Why don’t they haul me up in court to
'clear their names'?)
All the wadjua have given full support to their Semitic kith & kin
like Miller, Miskin, Silver & Co, who perverted the course of justice
so as to satisfy the paedophile among them and having the child's
divorced English mother too. Not to mention the proceeds from the
usurped house and car.
Arrested by PC GR Gasby on 9 Jan 2009 in Stevenage for distributing
CG. Anyone help me sue police for wrongful arrest & detention?

Ex-zionist Jiten Bardwaj, editor COPS Gazette - just an arresting
name- also doer of Yoga & Meditation. The wadjua prove Hitler right.
PS/NB:Beware of lawyers Peter Chong LL.B of Woodhouse-Smith & Co,
Chalfont St Peter, Bucks and Gouri Gupta of HS&A,Wealdstone Harrow,
Middx, both corrupt & liars. Aug 2009, minor amendments: Oct /Nov
2009.

* & beware of Ms Esther Rantzen in Luton, Denis MacShane MP, the
Brothers Miliband (Moribund?) MPs. 'Cover-up' is their motto.

On Dec 25, 7:22 pm, Sid Harth <sharth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> NEW DELHI, December 26, 2009
> BJP rejects J&K autonomy panel report
> Vinay Kumar
>
> The Hindu A file photo of BJP leader Arun Jaitley
>
> The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Friday rejected the report of the
> Prime Minister’s Working Group, which has recommended autonomy for
> Jammu and Kashmir, saying it was an “improperly prepared” document
> intended to convey the government’s willingness to “dilute” its
> position on the State.

> on various important and sensitive issues,” Mr. Jaitley said.

>
> He contended that it was “improper for a retired judge to have drafted
> a report on sensitive political subjects impinging on national
> sovereignty, that too two years after the last meeting of the Group
> without bothering to discuss it with any member” of the committee.

Sid Harth

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Dec 27, 2009, 9:31:23 AM12/27/09

Page last updated at 13:24 GMT, Sunday, 27 December 2009

Pakistan 'militants' kill official and family members

Militants in Pakistan have blown up the house of a local official,
killing him and five members of his family.

Sarbraz Saddiqi, a government official in Kurram district, his wife
and four children were killed in the attack, a police official said.

Sunday morning's attack came as the family were asleep.

No-one has admitted planting the bomb. But the police spokesman said
it could be linked to a Pakistan army offensive against the Taliban in
the area.

The army has captured territory in South Waziristan, a hotbed of
Islamic militancy, but many insurgents are believed to have fled to
nearby regions, including Kurram.

Small children killed

The attack occurred in Mosu Zai village, about 200km (125 miles) from
the north-western city of Peshawar.

"Unknown miscreants planted dynamite around the house and exploded it
between 0200 (2100 GMT) and 0300 and the house was destroyed," Abab
Ali, a local official told AFP news agency.

"Those killed were aged five to 11," he said.

"We don't know whether the Taliban, terrorists or Shias were
responsible," Mr Ali said.

But police officer Naeemullah Khan said the attack appeared to be
linked to the army's efforts against the Taliban militants in the
area.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8431677.stm

Sid Harth

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Dec 27, 2009, 9:54:39 AM12/27/09

Plans of five U.S. nationals arrested in Pakistan revealed
December 27, 7:25 AM

The five men, U.S. nationals, arrested in Pakistan on December 9, 2009
on charges of planning terrorist attacks in both Pakistan and
Afghanistan, allegedly revealed their intentions to police on Friday.
Reports of the interrogation said that the intended target was the
Chashma Nuclear Power Plant, and that the act would be on the behest
of the Taliban.

The use of the internet in the recruitment of these five suspects
raises the fear that this method of of bringing potential members from
around the world into the fold by terrorist groups has been honed and
perfected. In order to further interrogate the five, the police in
Pakistan won a court order to extend the stay until January 5, 2010.

http://www.examiner.com/x-25304-NY-Homeland-Security-Examiner~y2009m12d27-Plans-of-five-US-nationals-arrested-in-Pakistan-revealed

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 12:44:25 PM12/27/09

Eagle's Eye: Time to strike
Posted On Thursday, December 24, 2009

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Pakistan is not inclined to
oblige New Delhi by handing over more than forty terrorists whose
involvement has already been established in many heinous crimes in
India. The way Pakistan is changing its tone and tune each passing
day one is reminded of a game played by children in both the
countries- catch me if you can? More than else it has become a
routine with the Pakistan leadership to first commit on an important
issue and later backtrack on the same. Ironically, instead of taking
steps as desired by India, Government of Pakistan summoned the
Indian deputy high commissioner the other day to its foreign office
and conveyed concerns over last week's violation of Pakistani airspace
by Indian Air Force jets. Pakistan's defiance and changing tactics
is leaving India with no choice except war.

Suggestively, Pakistan is not at all serious about combating terrorism
as the actions taken by it have been no more than an eyewash. The fact
remains that the so called banned or sealed sites are functioning
normally. Besides the Pakistani government is in a defiant mood.
Evidently, the world community cannot expect political action from
it, given the precarious situation it is in.

Zardari's touching narrative on the threat posed by the religious
fanatics gave rise to speculations that Pakistan will dismantle well-
established terrorist groups on its soil. But now, it appears that
his government is not strong or bold enough to go beyond a point. This
fact has been corroborated by Nawaz Sharief former Pakistan
President and an important ally in the government. Pakistan presents
the picture of a failed and ungovernable state and the problems
facing the country can be overcome if the government abides by the
Murree Declaration in letter and spirit, Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz
(PML-N) chief Nawaz Sharif said recently.

Whether Pakistan takes any action against terrorists or not yet the
chill has started costing dearly for both the countries. Cricket- the
game which has been uniting the people on the two sides of LoC has
become its first causualty. The Government of India has called off
cricket tour of Pakistan scheduled next month, formally sealing the
fate of the series in protest against the terror attacks in Mumbai.
The next casualty is likely to be peace and bilateral talks between
the two sides.

It is alive in the eyes of the world that after every attack Pakistan
is playing the game of hide and seek. In 1999, when Masood Azhar
walked away from the hijacked IC-814 Air India plane towards the
wilderness of Kandahar desert, Pakistan was asserting that they never
knew him and assured India that if he reached Pakistani soil he would
be arrested and tried. Where is he now and should we believe that the
democratically-elected government in Pakistan will do justice to
India?

As the current policy is not working, what is the point in displaying
goodwill gestures to a country that fails to respond despite all
evidence? If Pakistan has to act only after being warned by the US,
there is no point wasting time in drafting bilateral treaties that
remain only on paper. A country kneeling before the US for funds and
arms needs to be attacked militarily. Moreover, enormous international
pressure is needed for Pakistan to discover that there are higher
priority issues than protecting Masood Azhar and Dawood Ibrahim.

Undoubtedly, India is soft on terror. While the 9/11 attacks led the
US to completely revamp its security systems- internal and external-
despite repeated attacks, we are still pondering over the ifs and
buts with no concrete measures taken. There seems to be only one
option left for India and it is to destroy the terror camps and bases
established in Pakistan. India has deployed naval ships and put
fighter planes on standby across the country. The fighters are fully
armed with different varieties of missiles. All squanders have been
looked into and are now on a high alert. Bangalore, Delhi, Jammu and
Kashmir and Chennai air force have also been on high alert. The
Indian navy has deployed 18 ships capable of playing combat roles in
the western part.

Rightly, it is high time India should start the air strikes in
Pakistan, which is the main station of the terrorists and thereby
destroy the camps and bases where they are being trained.

http://www.centralchronicle.com/viewnews.asp?articleID=22605

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 12:49:14 PM12/27/09

Is battle with Pakistan key to peace in India?
Posted On Saturday, November 07, 2009

We are aware of the fact that many Indian soldiers have lost their
lives in the conflict between the two countries. Battle never becomes
a permanent solution for any problem because it not only involves the
people who are directly participating in the war but also others who
are away from it. The post-war consequences are desperately harmful
making the existence of the people difficult. People never wish to
have wars. Instead they prefer to have silent treaties which leads to
happy lives without any life threatening disturbances. Hence for the
sake of fast development of our country, India we should avoid any war
with Pakistan or in fact any other country. Rather we should opt for
dialogue for resolution of the problems. This is in the interest of
the people of all countries.
Prathyusha P

We have our strong culture which has strong faith in peace and harmony
'Shanti' [Om dyau shanti, antariksha gvan shantih, prithvih shanti,
aaph shanti, aushadhayh shanti vanaspatayh shanti, vishvedeva shanti,
brahma shanti, sarva-a-shanti shantirev shanti sama shantiredhi'].

So these lines indicate that peace should be everywhere. But today we
are suffering from terrorism. Pakistan is promoting terrorism in
India.

In manpower (Army) we are second in the world. But our Army's name is
defense, not attack. It indicates that we love peace. But when any
one tries to destroy our peaceful culture we should fight against it,
and there is nothing harm in it.
`Gita says that if we die in the battle, we will go to heaven and if
we win, we will enjoy the power on earth'. Battle is also necessary to
maintain peace. Battle should be fought to make every body happy and
prosperous.
'Sarve bhavantu sukhinah
Sarve santu niraamayaah'
Mayank Mishra

No. That is not the solution. A war with Pakistan would kill lakhs of
innocent people who had nothing to do with country politics. Because
of the whims of the political leaders' of Pakistan, enmity between the
two countries has been going on since the day united India was
divided. Instead of trying to keep peace and order and find out ways
and means for economic development Pakistan attacked India in the year
1948 to merge Kashmir with that country. India was taken unawares but
drove the Pakistan Army out within few days. The biggest mistake
committed by India at that time was to allow Pakistan to occupy the
attacked portion of Kashmir until the dispute was settled later and
since then it is called Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK). Since then
Pakistan has been prodding India off and on. They have been funding
the separatist forces in Kashmir since a long time. We got another
chance to teach Pakistan a 'Lesson' when they tried to destroy the
democratic movement in East Pakistan in the year 1972. India
intervened and around a lakh military personnel including senior
officers were made prisoner in East Pakistan. Ignoring international
pressure Indian Prime Minister Mrs. Indira Gandhi could have bargained
with Pakistan President and got back the POK to India. Now POK has
become training centre and hideout of all Muslim terrorists. Just
because of the Muslim terrorists image of Indian Muslims is tarnished.
Even American President Barak Obama is aware that whatever money is
given to Pakistan to maintain that country's poor economy is used for
keeping terrorists who attack India as and when they desire. Mumbai
terrorist attack last November is the latest example. If destroying
Pakistan by force would have solved the problem of Muslim terrorism,
America would have done so long ago, immediately after twin towers in
New York was destroyed, killing more than 6000. Initiating peace talks
with Pakistan is of no use. They have only one agenda for any meeting
- hand over Kashmir. Pressurizing the international community to
desist Pakistan from terrorist activities may help to some extent. At
the same time our country should progress on all fronts and our
defense forces strengthened to the envy of even the developed
countries. Pakistan, China or any other country should think ten times
before making a plan to attack India.
Jyoti Rai

Today our country is facing trouble from almost all of its neighbours,
be it China for its infiltration bids or Bangladesh for its terrorist
activities. But in the eyes of most Indians, Pakistan is the prominent
one among all the trouble makers. May be such a perspective or
thinking may be a result of years of distrust between the two
neighbours. But, battle with Pakistan is in no way key to peace in
India.

Battle and peace are like two opposite poles of a magnet. Battle with
Pakistan can help us in acquiring more land or to impose our
superiority over our neighbours but can never lead to peace.

I think that it is wrong on our part to brand Pakistan as a terrorist
nation. Yes, even if Pakistan is involved in terrorist activities, it
is unjust to brand it as a terrorist nation because the whole of
Pakistan is not responsible for it and neither the whole of Pakistan
is in support of terrorism. That's why I strongly feel that battle
against terrorism is more appropriate and justified than battle
against Pakistan.

Also, one cannot just turn a blind eye on various problems, strifes,
rebellions etc arising in India itself. The threat of Naxalism and
Maoists has become bigger than ever. People are being abducted, cops
beheaded, trains taken control of by the so-called Maoists or
Naxalites. What such people are doing is venting out their
dissatisfaction against the way they have been treated by the society.

For peace to return, the government has to take some very sincere
steps like the ensuring of foolproof security at the borders and at
all entry points to our nation. The government's inability to ensure
this was cruelly exposed in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. In case of
internal problems like Naxalism, the government should find out the
reasons for dissatisfaction among the people and should try to remove
these causes at the earliest. In case of external problems like
terrorism, arising out of foreign lands, the government should firstly
hold diplomatic talks with their counterparts. If the talks fail, then
wage a battle- battle against terrorism and not battle against
Pakistan or for that matter any other country. There lies the key!
Alby Joseph

No. That would trigger off the Third World War and we will be blamed
for the same. History teaches us that at any rate battle is not the
ultimate solution. Remember what happened in Vietnam. After 25 years
of war with that country America had to withdraw from there without
gaining anything, except losing face. America tried in Afghanistan to
destroy the Taliban and could not. The most difficult problems we face
are both Muslim Countries in our neighbourhood could not be trusted.
We helped to create Bangladesh. Now that country harbours terrorists
who attack India. Pakistanis can never be trusted. They would talk of
peace today and about Kashmir tomorrow. Whether it is military
government or democratically elected, they always harp on Kashmir as
if they cannot live without it. Most of the educated new generation in
Pakistan hates India because they were taught that way. A national
newspaper correspondent based in Bhopal was posted to Islamabad some
two decades ago. Once when he went to meet a Pakistan official in his
residence a five-year old granddaughter of the official came into the
room. The elderly man told her that this is his Hindustani friend.
Immediately the girl reacted to the embarrassment of the official:
"Hindustani kutte" (Indians are dogs). The children are taught that
way at that time. This would never happen in our country. At this rate
how can relationship between the neighbours improve? But, then, who
want to improve the relationships? During Bangladesh War the then
Pakistan Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had said 'We will continue
our war with Hindustan for a thousand years.' Within a few days Bhutto
had to touch feet of Indira Gandhi at the time of Simla Agreement to
save his own skin. Even if India wants to live in peace with every
country, particularly with her neighbours, Pakistan, Bangladesh and
now China have other things in mind. Now that the terrorists have
turned against Pakistan, they are having taste of their own dish. I am
sure the terrorists will teach a 'Lesson' to Pakistan Government who
was their godfather till date. I will be surprised if some disgruntled
elements in Pakistan Government are not supporting the terrorists
through the back door. We cannot expect peace in our country with such
sort of neighbours like Pakistan, China and Bangladesh. Peace in the
sub continent can be brought only if all countries are willing. But
that would never happen.
Rajiv Nair

This is a very delicate and sensitive subject. It's span is very vast
and wide, because, it involves the security of persons more than 100
crores. The decision to wage war against any country can only be taken
by government and any individual cannot take any appropriate decision.
The government has many agencies like Intelligence Bureau, Research
and Analysis Wing, Military Intelligence & other various secret and
international sources. Therefore, the real situation is only known to
government. Hence, it would be better to trust government in the
interest of the nation. No doubt at present position of India is very
critical as the activities of neighbouring countries are very hostile.

India's wise policy is Gandhian policy of non-violence. Recently, our
prime-minister had acted very wisely to diffuse tensions by gaining a
very supportive statement from American President who said 'Manmohan
is part of my family.' The Chinese Prime Minister also gave a very
favourable statement on October 24, 2009, when they met Mr. Manmohan
Singh recently in Thailand. On October 27, 2009 there was a meeting of
Foreign Minister of Russia, China and India at Bangalore and they took
decision to fight terrorism and diffuse tensions.

Hon'ble President and Hon'ble Sonia Gandhi's role is also very
significant and crucial to have cordial relations with U.S.A., China
and Russia. Hence, politicians have succeeded in diffusing tension
considerably.

Pakistan is already at war with terrorists of their own country and
suffering very heavy losses. In the present circumstances, a battle
with Pakistan is not at all feasible and advisable. The politician of
all parties should combine and honestly assist the government to curb
and control anti-social elements and specially terrorists who are very
active in our country. This internal growth of violence is a burning
problem which needs to be curved with an iron hand and so strength of
army and police needs to be raised to an effective level to meet the
current law and order problem. Wiping out corruption and control of
prices is the need of the day to enhance economy and relief to the
poor people.
BB Dubey

Wars and battles never usher in peace. Battles, unless imposed, should
as far as possible be avoided. There is no issue under the sky,
however, contentious it may be, which cannot be sorted out or mutually
agreed upon if there is a will and determination to do so. This logic
applies to India and Pakistan as well as any other country all over
the world.

As we are discussing peace with Pak in this column, Pakistan is
burning of its own creation Taliban and other terrorist outfits were
groomed by Pakistani establishment sometimes clandestinely and
sometimes openly as warring counter-weight against India in Kashmir
and Punjab and against Russia in Afghanistan . Lately it is JEHAD on
all the non-muslim world. Surprisingly even the staunch Islamic
countries of the world are not supporting Pak-sponsored religious
battles with neighbours, as such an ideology is archaic and barbaric.
Yet the democle's sword of a war with Pakistan has always been hanging
over India .

When Pak President Asif Ali Zardari, in one of his speeches, exuded
warmth by saying that Indians and Pakistanis are historical cousins,
it was felt that both the countries would now come closer to each
other emotionally and the cries of war and battle would be deleted
from the dictionaries of the ruling class. But it didn't happen. On
the other hand, the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attacks further diluted the
bond of relations and since then both the countries are virtually on a
diplomatic battleground which may draw them close to war any moment.

Having said so, to conclude battle or war with nuclear powered
countries like India and Pakistan can never be a key to peace. It
would only end up in a total disaster. There can be no peace between
these nations unless they resume dialogue and sort out gradually all
outstanding issues in an atmosphere of mutual trust and warmth. Would
it ever happen?
Krishna Chander Mouli

The conflict between India and Pakistan started after independence
when India was divided into two as a strategy of the Britishers. Since
then there had been war between both the countries. The main reason
behind the Indo-Pak conflict is the issue of Jammu & Kashmir. As we
all know that after India got independence the Britishers divided the
country into two ie India and Pakistan. When most of the states
started joining either of the two countries but Jammu & Kashmir
decided to be an individual state. But Pakistan later attacked Jammu &
Kashmir.

At this time J&K sought the help of India and India decided to help
J&K on the condition that it would come under the jurisdiction of
India. After J&K agreed, India sent there army and defeated Pakistan.
This led to the breakdown in the relationship of both the countries.
But later the officials of both the countries agreed to talk, but till
now there has been no result.

Saying about the situation in India due to the continuous attack of
Pakistan based terrorist group, it has been a great headache to India.
These groups are causing a great fluctuation to peace in India. The
latest example was the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. In my opinion battle with
Pakistan is not a key to peace in India, because it will only result
in more tension among the countries. Through battle we cannot derive
any result but only waste our money and human resource. Mainly we
don't have to battle but have to take steps and come together and
battle terrorism. At last it would be better to say that betel between
India and Pakistan is not the key to peace but battling with terrorism
is the only key for peace not only in India but to the rest of the
world too.
Priyesh Jhawar

A war or battle is never a good thing. It takes away hundreds of
lives, leaving behind thousands of widows and orphans. The financial
burden due to war affects the economy of the country.

Since independence Kashmir has been a bone of contention between India
and Pakistan . The latter has desired to grab Kashmir, an integral
part of India , fought many wars against India but always lost them
due to excellent bravery of our soldiers. On the other hand, India has
always tried to reconsider and wanted normalcy in the region. The
Indian government has declared, time and again, for maintaining
friendly relations with her neighboring countries. It has no intention
of interfering in the internal affairs of any country. But, after
Pakistan lost every war with India , it started terrorism by sending
intruders into India specially in Punjab and Kashmir , to achieve its
goal.

Father of the Nation Mahatma Gandhi laid great emphasis for the need
to live in peace with neighbours. Similarly, Pt Jawahar Lal Nehru laid
down five principles for peace called `Panchsheel'.
No war in history has ever brought peace to any of its people. The
victor or the vanquished of war, brings in its trail, untold
sufferings.

Our life on this planet is short. Let us learn to live in peace
together because we are all children of the one supreme God Almighty.
PS Pawar

Pakistant is not conducive for talks as its present political leaders
do not have the faith of their people. There is no leadership or
governance and the country is bleeding almost everyday. Pakistan 's
peace is under trouble by Taliban and other terrorist organisations.
Their leaders unable to find solutions show their ire on India through
various irrelevant allegations. While Pak wage a war against Taliban
due to pressure from US they do not want to act against them for
Taliban's activities against India.

But since the time is not for talk with Pak - it does not mean we have
a solution in war with Pakistan . Our war with Pakistan will see raise
of Taliban, LeT and other terrorists organisations, in the name of
helping Pak army to fight us the terrorism activities will be let
loose across our borders. We have to wait and watch the developments
in Pak and at the same time ensure that our borders and internal
security are safe.
KR Anandagopalan

Due to Pakistan indulgence in terrorism, in India we have inexorable
rise in terrorist activities and throughout our nation we notice a
taut
atmosphere. Terrorism has gone to such an extent that in the opinion
of
layman, battle with Pakistan is the only solution for peace and
tranquility
in India.

But, according to Benjamin Franklin "There never was a good war or
bad
peace". So in my opinion it is neck and crop a moth-eaten idea that
battle
with Pakistan is key to peace in India. Successfully we have already
fought
three battles with Pakistan. In spite of defeating Pakistan three
times we
don't have peace in our country. So it is absolutely wrong to say
battle with
Pakistan key to peace.

War is nothing but horror, destruction, pain and suffering. War is
something
that no right thinking person will approve it. War is devastating to
countries and public equally. In war men, women, children suffer
physically, mentally and socially for the rest of their lives. Wars
ruin the
economy and stop the progress of both the countries. After battles in
the
battle fields the scene is very pathetic because of charred bodies,
the
bloodied and deformed corpses there.

If we hark back in the ancient history, Ashoka the great fought a
battle with
Kalinga in which thousands of people were killed in the battle. When
he saw
the bloodshed, Ashoka the great was extremely sorry. He said, for all
these
killings he was responsible. After this battle, he decided not to
battle again
& he adopted Buddhism.

In spite of winning in the battle, Ashoka the Great was not having
peace of
mind. So, we can say firmly that war cannot bring peace by war. For
the
purpose of peace we should try at the international level & try to
have
public opinion throughout the world in our favour so that we can
compel
Pakistan to stop terrorism. All the issues we should resolve on the
table
instead of on the battlefield. We are living in a civilized society we
are not in the barbarian age. So, we should solve all issues by a
negotiations.
S Zia-ul-Hasan Naqvi

Absolutely not! One should realize that the issues between India and
Pakistan can never be settled even with a series of battles,
adorations with candles or processions taken out to settle the
differences.

Even without a battle, we are experiencing the battle situation every
now and then. In this utter chaos battle will be like adding fuel to
the fire causing further devastation and massacre on either side of
the country.

Earlier, people had a misconception that war as the only means for
peace, without giving a second thought for the neighbours' lives. But,
today trends have changed and perspectives different. We need to view
everything in a very meticulous way. At this juncture, we need peace
and harmony in our country and not war. Peace can never be achieved
through violence.

Mahatma Gandhi used non-violence to win-over the people, but in our
contemporary society non-violence is not possible but, negotiations
will do. India is already sodden with darkness of various kinds. Let
us not add one more. Once PM Dr Mammohan Singh made a keen observation
that shutting the door of peace-talk on Pakistan will be counter-
productive. Also, closing the direct conversation and having the third
party as a mediator to settle the matter will look foolish.
Due to the faulty diplomacy of Pakistan, India has suffered a lot of
betrayals and still suffering physically and mentally. By experiencing
betrayals, one becomes aware and cautious in taking a prudent step.

Since these issues won't be settled, we can't be blind to the
atrocities happening to our country. Enough of wars we can't any more
lose lives, each person's life is important for us, and war is not a
feasible means to arrive at peace. Due to the absence of dialogue,
peace-talks and negotiations, religions in the past suffered carnage,
massacre, polarization, domination etc but today, to a certain extent
peace prevails due to the inter-religious dialogue and peace-talks in
our country. Even after many setbacks, Vajpayee government kept up the
dialogue process for a better cause. Hence, we need to realize the
significance of dialogue and promote dialogue to tackle any issue or
crisis and not war. And government should realize that war is not a
feasible step to solve any problems, and a prudent step would be
opting for a peace-talk and having a good and matured dialogue.
H Infant Vinoth

If anyone thinks that war is the only solution for peace, then that
person is wrong in his perception. Peace is possible only when one is
in peace with himself/herself. The problem with this world is that
nobody wants to understand this simple truth. Basically, mankind is in
conflict from within. Every man, without God, the Creator, is in
conflict within. So, peace must start in each individual being first
that then percolate in home, neighbourhood, and the society as a
whole. Leo Tolstoy, the author of "War and Peace" was basically a man
in conflict within his own household. He was never in peace with his
family. There were several nights he had to remain aloof, unbearable
of the domestic troublesome situation. Yes, it is a fact. Mankind will
never find peace unless he/she finds the spring of life, the source
from where the life originates. Every human being has lost sight of
this eternal truth. There are hundreds of thousands of testimonies
where people, after spending all their wealth and resources in search
of peace, couldn't find it anywhere, till they found that well-spring
of peace.

Sadhu Sunder Singh was one in contemporary Indian scenario that
despite being born and brought up in a wealthy family and was boastful
of his own religion's pride, when took cudgels with the Truth of Life,
lost all the peace in his life. He wandered in search of peace that he
lost once and was at the point of taking his own life unless and until
the true living God reveal Himself. Since the Lord loved that servant,
He revealed His pristine light that when called him by name, Sadhu
Sunder Singh removed his foot-wear and walked bare-foot to spread the
Gospel of Christ unto the uttermost parts in Tibet . He is still known
to many faithful as an 'apostle with bleeding feet'. Peace demands a
price and that is the abject surrender of oneself to the Creator God.

India and Pakistan had three major conflicts and in all these Pakistan
failed or rather surrendered miserably. The last one was fought at
Kargil. The picture of abject surrender of Lt. General AAK Niazi in
the 1971 Bangladesh operation is still fresh in many Indians minds.
This time round, perhaps Pakistan is aligning close with another
neighbour of India , which too played a nasty misadventure with India
in 1962. They are perhaps teaming up to open two different fronts -
Eastern and Western, to defeat India, as they know India is right on
the track of development and prosperity, despite the onslaught of
recession that has upset many western developing economies. But, the
resilience in India to unite in diverse circumstances is time-tested
and even if a decisive battle is forced on us, India would surely
emerge victorious, as we are generally a peace-loving community and do
not engage ourselves in interfering/meddling with others' internal
affairs.
RK Kutty
Battle and peace? No, No battle, no war. How can we restore peace
after having war with Pakistan or with any neighbour?
I think our foreign policy is acting in right direction. Our think
tank is moving and acting precisely. There is no doubt that Pakistan
has become the epicentre of terrorism. We will have to handle the
situation diplomatically and carefully. Pakistan will die its own
death sooner or later.

Please remember that before any war, our own internal security is
required to be strengthened. We have Meer Jafars like Madhu Koda in
our own country. Our priority is to have war with our own corrupt
politicians. We need battle to win over poverty. We need battle to win
over inflation. We need battle to bring another green revolution
within 3-4 years. We must win over floods in states like UP and Bihar.
Naxal problem needs to be handled carefully. Let us not give any
chance to the ISI to infiltrate their agents in India.

Yes. Pakistan needs a lesson. I remember Mushaira `Chor ko na maro'
Chori ki ma ko maro. We will have to convince the global society that
whatever help Pakistan is getting from the US as well as from other
countries must be stopped with immediate effect, because Pakistan is
in the hands of ISI and corrupt politicians.
SK Dogra

Is enhanced price of vegetables going to benefit farmers?

The winners of the forum on:
Do people live their lives without considering harmful effects are:
First-SK Dogra
Second: Arunima Rajesh
Third: AB Mehta.

http://www.centralchronicle.com/viewnews.asp?articleID=18675

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 12:55:43 PM12/27/09

Should politics involve religion?
Posted On Saturday, September 19, 2009

"When politics and religion are intermingled, a people is suffused
with a sense of invulnerability, and gathering speed in their forward
charge, they fail to see the cliff ahead of them" - Frank Herbert,
American author. Politics aims at maintaining justice in the society
while Religion offers a path of communicating with the Almighty. But
when these unite, it often results in anarchy. Indeed politics and
religion should be as far removed from one another as possible
otherwise such heinous historical bloodbaths as the aftermath of Babri
Masjid Demolition, the Holocaust etc will continue to plague mankind
forever!
Rageshri

No. But you cannot rule the country without involving religion in
politics. Religion never allowed government to work independently and
politics never gave religion a free hand. They need each other's
support. Ours is a democratic country. Here too political leaders
require assistance from the religious leaders so that people vote in
their favour.

Doing politics on the name of religion has also become part of our
governance. Now, people are doing politics in the name of caste, creed
etc. Political parties while giving ticket to contest elections
consider overall population and which caste or community is dominated
in that particular area before fielding their candidates. When it
comes to voting, people are divided on caste and religion basis.

It is generally demanded that a Muslim candidate should be fielded
from Old Bhopal City for Assembly elections because that area is
dominated by Muslim community. People generally think that a person
belonging to their own caste, creed or religion is bound to do good
for the community even though the candidate may be a criminal in
nature. The case is different in foreign countries, particularly in
Muslim countries where religion has an upper hand. In ancient age the
Christian religious heads had a say in the rule of the country in
European countries. Even our own country is no different.
A story from Ramayana shows that religion had an upper hand over the
king. When man from a lower caste started penance, Sage Vashisht, Guru
of Raja Ram ordered him to kill him. Because, such a thing was not
allowed in that age. Reluctantly Raja Ram had to obey his Guru and
religious head. In the modern age the Muslim religious heads issue
orders to their community members what to do on several matters. The
rulers (political leaders) stand helplessly in front of such 'Fatwa'
even though these are against the law of the country.
Jyoti Rai

Politics and religion are basic elements of a county or society. No
country can run without both of them. In a multireligious country like
India, where each state has people following different religions, if
each political party supports any specific religion, then it will be
very hard to count the number of political parties in our country.

As far as I believe each person whether he is a politician or a common
man, has his own religion and family value in his personal life. But
at the time of carrying out political duties, they should think
broadly and think above religious sentiments.

A political party is mean to work for public and not for the
improvement of any religious group. Thus according to me, religion and
politics both have their own areas of operation. Hence we should not
try to combine them together.
Preety Chouhan

To answer yes or no this question, it's very important to understand
what politics and religion actually are? Well, politics to my
knowledge means trying to influence others by using some kind of power
and to do something for satisfying some interests. Every human being,
when he does something for his own benefit or others, he plays
politics. So politics is so important for us that it can't be
separated from our life.

Now, let's understand what religion is. Religion is the system of
belief that suggests the existence of Gods and worship to them. And
hence it restricts people to commit any sin or crime or anything that
harms others. Religion has become an integral part of our culture
today. Therefore I believe every religion plays the role of an
enlightened torch-bearer for human beings to take them to the right
direction and reach enlightenment.

When we see the politics & religion on wide level, we notice that some
narrow-minded so called politicians have misutilised both the things
in a way that most of the people have negative approach towards
involving religion with politics which almost is next to impossible.
We certainly should involve religion with politics but in a healthier
manner. We should study, know and practice the good ideologies of all
the religions in our personal, family, social, professional and
political life so that we lead a happy, peaceful and prosperous life.

The major issue of concern in present context is some politicians are
using religion to misguide innocent people an create rift among
different communities for their personal or party's interest. And we
have seen some consequences of such politics in the form of incidents
that took place at Babri Masjid, Godhra etc.
Ram Awatar Yadav

In the 42nd amendment of our Constitution, a new Article 25(2) was
added for secularism of politics involves religion, then its
consequences will always be negative for our society. This way India
would be divided into various groups or parties depending on their
religions. Some parties and politicians might consider involving
religion with politics for their own benefits. A few months ago we saw
Varun Gandhi trying to take undue advantage through his speech and
created problem for the society. It resulted in clash between
different communities.

India is a multi-cultural nation where we learn to live in love,
respect and appreciate all the religions and cultures. So we should
ensure that religion is not involved in politics; otherwise all the
religions will start fighting with each other an there will be total
chaos.
Sushant Kumar

Politics and religion are two integral part of human life. They can't
be distinct. Politics is done by every individual right from his or
her childhood and religion is an important part of human culture.
Nowadays some narrow minded politicians present consequences of
religion in politics negatively, but as far as my view is concerned, I
believe the positive aspect of every religion should be included in
politics so that the future of the country becomes bright.

Religion as we all know is a man-made institution. Religion was
created by human beings for their own convenience. For a country like
India, it's not possible to practice politics without including
religion into it. Religion is in our blood. So, separating religion
from politics would be like body without blood.

Therefore, they should go hand-in-hand in our society in a
constructive way for the overall development and a brighter future.
Nidhi Modi

India is a land where we find so many diverse cultures and different
religions. Each and every religion has its own customs and rituals.
Every religion has its aesthetic value and a number of followers.
Religion is something that entrusts upon us to have the faith and
believe in the super power Almighty. It is religion which guides us to
the right path. A great many saints took birth on this soil and
preached us to lead a noble life and to be a good Samaritan.

No religion did ever preach evil practices and deeds. Both religion
and politics had their commencement during the earlier vedic period.
But it did not get blend during those times. The people followed their
religions and customs and politics never interfered in it. The king
was the supreme and he took all the decisions regarding the political
issues.

But when we perceive at the modern world and the present scenario, we
get a completely different perspective. The politicians know the best
how and when to use the weapon of religion. A number of riots have
taken place resulting in immense bloodshed and destruction to
property. History is the evidence that when politics and religion have
intervened or mingled together, we have seen nothing but devastating
sights and bloodshed.

So, in my view, these are the two different aspects of society which
should never amalgamate. They should remain parallel like a railway
line because these are the two most indispensable elements in making a
prosperous nation.
Anshu Agarwal

I would say, leave alone the religion. Because our country is a
secular one. And no would feel at home, not to mention minority, to
intertwine religion with politics. The involvement of religion with
politics would impact disastrous consequences in the public and
private life. Religion is a matter of one's private life. Whereas
politics is concerned with public life. Let us not mess up these two.

Religious fundamentalism has led to corruptions in high places,
including the judiciary. In the name of religion, anti-social elements
are advancing. These anti-social elements create evils of various
kinds both to politics and religion. Religion and politics cannot go
hand in hand because, the policies of religion is service to the
humanity and religion of politics is to do with power and influence
the latter deals with shrewdness and diplomacy and not simplicity of
service.

Religion is a private and personal affair of an individual, which
deals with sentiments of faith. While politics is a public affair,
dealing with pragmaticism and reason. If religion involves in
politics, it will loose its meaning. Today foreign tourists and
visitors are attracted to Indian spirituality. When religion indulges
in politics, religion will be exposed to all kinds of nuisance and
corruptions. For this very reason, foreign tourists and visitors will
turn their backs to Indian spirituality and find other means to
satisfy their spiritual hunger.

To sum up, unless the involvement of religion should purify politics,
it should keep itself away from the latter.
H Infant Vinoth

Religion and politics are inextricably interlinked. It was due to this
reason that Gandhiji viewed politics without religion, a dirty game.
Swami Vivekananda had also considered religion as the core of
politics. Papalism pulled the strings in the medieval European
politics.

Islam has been influencing political forces in many countries. But
politicisation of religion is not only an obstacle for national
integration but also harmful to the genuine values of all religions.
Politicisation makes all religions a tool of destruction setting the
followers of one religion in confrontation with another. And so
religion becomes a threat to the secular, democratic and socialist
character of a nation. Religion is a personal affair that should not
have anything to do with public matters, including politics.

Human beings created religions in order to develop regulations in
society and to satisfy their spiritual needs. The origin of democracy,
human rights, civil liberties, science, and everything which we take
for granted can be traced, either in large part or entirely, to the
conception of personal human freedom. Because of our freedom as
individuals, we have the authority to choose our own leaders.

Because of our freedom as individuals, we have basic rights and
liberties in our communities which our leaders either cannot touch or
can only infringe upon in extreme situations. It is awfully heart-
wrenching to see that even though we, as Indians, call ourselves a
rapidly developing country, we are still unable to segregate religion
from politics. Our decisions regarding elections and political parties
still revolve around religious differences and vested interests. What
is the cure for eradicating the ill effects of such involvement? It
still remains a Herculean task. It requires statesmanship, unbending
moral stand, dynamic leadership and above all, unconquerable will to
take up all the communal bulls by their horns.
The articulation of faith in technological age, the quest for life in
the midst of threats of death, and the longing for peace within the
human heart, are the problems of immense dimensions need to be
addressed by the religion not the matters of politics. Religions of
the contemporary society necessitate only committing to their world in
transforming it into a better world, and more humans, marked by love,
fellowship, peace, and harmony.
Robin Joseph

Politics is defined as the profession devoted to governing and to
political affairs the activities and affairs involved in managing a
state or a government. Politics is a process by which groups of people
make decisions

A very comprehensive definition of religion is "A set of beliefs
concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp when
considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually
involving devotional and ritual observances and often containing a
moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Unfortunately in our country a large number of people are involved in
politics primarily 'to have a powerful position so that one can take
advantage of it'. If they belong to the ruling party it is to become
minister or at least a chairman of some Federation. If they are in
opposition, they must find fault with all that the ruling party does
and create as much disturbance as possible.

Coming to religion, it is for most a 'tag' to belong to. The fear of
God and not Love of God is the basis. Religion is practised in rituals
and not in seriously pursuing a pious and ethical life. Those in power
or positions of authority tend to misuse religion for personal
advantage. The faithful, again due to fear of God and to condone acts
of sin, visit temples, churches, masjids, gurudwaras and so on and
offer cash or items. Only a few do it for getting peace of mind and
actually serve the needy who are the real replicas of God.

The problem becomes worse when the two are combined not for the good
of the humanity but for showing who is more powerful and who should
decide what is right for everyone. In the current scenario it is
almost impossible to change this and more so in future when the
resources keep on reducing and users keep on increasing. So far, in
our country, we have kept a semblance of non-interference of religion
in politics and vice versa. How long even this will last no one can
say.
AB Mehta

As way back as in Mahabharata era, Lord Krishna in his deliverance of
sermon to Arjuna said that whenever anarchy prevailed in the world, He
would come on the earth in the form of an incarnation to demolish all
the evils and restore virtuous order of Dharma. That was His vision of
Dharma but not religion at all in its real sense. Today however dharma
which really means righteousness has been usurped by the crude and
fundamentalist religious bigotry which attaches importance to the
beliefs, rituals, ceremonies gaudy display of identities, fanaticism
etc. Our politics is now full to the brim in high potions with this
type of Dharma (fanatic religious fundamentalism) or equally fanatic
secularism to the extent that both these ideologies are pursued to
their extreme ends.

It is a fact that no society exists and survives without a thought,
ideology and this can be religion too. But these things are
essentially to keep such society intact and united but not necessarily
to govern. Religion and politics should therefore not be mixed up
because governance is for the whole Nation which is a unit of
diversified people whereas religion only takes care of a particular
segment of the whole society unless such a society is exclusive.

There are any number of examples in our epics, history and modern day
politics that whenever politics was mixed with governance that society
always deteriorated and sometimes extinguished. In the modern day
politics the Khalistan dream in Punjab and the Modi style post-Godhra
Gujarat riots and fake encounters and a few other such instances. Even
the staunch secularists also played up religions sentiments hideously
wherever such governance suited them and the net result was always
disastrous. It therefore seems logical to argue against the
involvement of religion with politics. Politics should strictly limit
itself to the service of the people and governance of a State /Nation.
Similarly religion should also restrict itself to promote, restore
strengthen virtues and righteousness.
Krishna Chander Mouli

India is a country of vast diversities and inhabited by people of
different castes, religions, languages, customs, festivals and food
habits. Sometimes politicians are using religion for their own
selfish interest and political gains which may lead to major
internal problems. They revert to disruptionist tactics to suit
themselves and in turn arouse the people's religious sentiments.
Every rational citizen of India will readily concede that communal
harmony is the urgent need of the hour. Even today British policy of
divide and rule policy still prevails in Indian politics. Such kinds
of tactics should keep away from religion and should work for the
betterment and upliftment of the society. Every politician and
public should be aware that basis of Indian culture is peace.
Brotherhood, amity and its distinctive sign is based on tolerance
has earmarked in every religious books.

Promotion of harmony should be their most important duty as the
country's salvation depends upon it. Politicians should encourage a
continues syntheses even when confronted with contrary philosophies.
If the nation has to make sound progress and consolidate its gains is
the social, economic political and politicians should be in the
spheres of good citizen and ensure harmony and peace in the way of
permanent feature. In India, for the gain of politicians, they are
involving religions and exploiting the weakness of the public.
C Rajendran

No, politics should not involve religion. Religion and politics are
two inseparable institutions in the human social psyche and structure.
Religions, all religions, have no place in modern politics. In fact,
religion should stay the hell out of politics. However, politics and
religion can never be separated.

People of many faiths make up the nation and freedom of religion is
one of the cornerstones of Indian democracy.
Religion is a unified system of beliefs and practices which unite into
one moral community. Politics is about the acquisition of power and
the use of such power.

As far as politics is considered, it is completely ridiculous that
people are willing to choose a leader simply because they believe in
the same religion. People vote for candidates based on their own
personal belief system. The candidate that fits best gets the votes.
However, political leaders often rely on both their own personal
values and of their religion.
The election, religion and politics have continued to intersect in
many ways. Politicians, in their quest to acquire power, should
refrain from using religion as a tool of oppression.

At the same time, when religion and politics become entwined the
result is always problematic because over-zealous people will tend to
invoke their religion as a way of governing instead of using their
knowledge and common sense. But the question is how much religion does
influence politics and law-making.

Religious groups also risk distraction from their spiritual mission
when they become deeply involved in politics. Hence, religious groups
should be wary of becoming too involved in politics.

Many people may feel that religion and politics do not or should not
mix, but the reality of the situation is that they usually do become
mixed. Religion influences politics while politics in turn influences
religion. If the two cannot be wholly disentangled, the question
becomes just what sort of relationship they do have and how that
relationship can be prevented from becoming dangerous.

In fact, religion has no place in politics and politics has no place
in religion. In my opinion, in many ways religion is safer at home and
politics in the public domain. Hence, religion and politics should be
allowed to operate separately without one interfering with the other.

Religion mixed politics is mostly likely to imbibe various vices
associated with politics. Also that politics may not be properly and
dispassionately played if mixed with religion. I have generally tended
to conclude that religion should not become too directly involved with
politics. The sacred and secular realms need to be kept separate.
PS Prakasa Rao

Yes. Politics should involve religion.
India is a religious country. It has people following different
religions like Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism,
Jainism, Arya Samaj etc.

Man is a social being. Our life is made possible by forming of
governments. For this we vote people of our liking and of
qualification to high offices of the government. Thus we have the
Congress party, the BJP, the SP, BSP etc. Every party has its
president; also election symbols are allotted to the parties.

Generally politics is not involved in religion. Religion means
religious programmes. It means being sympathetic to human and nature,
going to the temples to call on their maker and to seek His blessings
and His way of life for becoming successful persons.

Whereas politics generally involves big fights- both verbal and duel
at times. There is feeling of enmity. An ordinary man does not know
much about politics as unless he reads the daily newspapers or sees
the television, his knowledge will remain dull. Hence if all believe
in God and follow the same faith, then they would vote for a better
party.
Ramkumar Khare

Politics and religion two different things. Politics involves ruling
the nation whereas religion is following a certain faith like
Hinduism, Islam or Christianity.

Religion should be kept away from politics. The seers, saints who
preach religion should not involve themselves in politics. Religion
helps man lead a better life. It brings peace of mind.

Politics is means for the country's administration and for the
people's welfare and public facilities like housing problems, food,
education, employment.

At present our leaders are taking benefit of religion for winning
elections.

The leaders these days are digging out dead issues. At present there
is no need and necessity for it. What benefits it will give to the
people? At present the nation is facing severe problem of water
shortage, food, shelter. People are suffering various diseases due to
unhygienic conditions. These need to be tackled.

Religion covers each and every aspect of life. Moreover culture is
also through religion only. Religion is main key of politics. It
supports politics also. Selection of politicians for ruling the
country is from religion only.
PS Pawar

The worst tragedy in Indian politics is the involvement of religion in
politics, particularly from the '90s onwards. In fact, the same
involvement of religion was the real cause of the very partition of
this country and that is the reason articles like 'partition, Jinnah
and Jaswant' are hitting in our print media. What Karl Marx had said
about religion 'as the opium of masses' is literally proved when
religion was actively involved in politics. Religion and politics are
the two extremes - while the former deals with the spiritual aspect
that is wholly personal of an individual, the latter deals with the
physical needs and aspirations of people of a whole State/country.
Religion and philosophies are creation of mankind, so is creation of
multifarious political parties. There is a wonderful verse in the Holy
Bible - Ecclesiasts 7:29 "God made man upright, but they have sought
out many schemes". It is literally being proved, day in and day out,
in these days. Ever since the mixing of religion with politics, it
became the killer cocktail and most of the tragic pogroms and riots
occurred afterwards. The fire is still raging and a small spark
anywhere and everywhere can turn into a big catastrophe.

Of course, there was time when the Kings sought for advises from the
Prophets/Priests (in the Indian context Raj Purohit) on stately
matters. When one studies the scriptures, whenever the Israelite Kings
obeyed advice of the Prophets/Priests, it bode well for them. There is
a wonderful story occurred during King David's time. In fact, it was
the greatest fall from grace of King David. His eyes deceived him when
he saw a beautiful woman (Bathsheba), wife of a sincere soldier,
fighting the King's war in the battle field, taking bath. David
couldn't resist the lust of his body passion and he slept with her.
When the woman later informed the King that she was pregnant, David
plotted first to call her husband from the battlefield and to take
some rest with his wife. But the man proved so sincere that even after
much cajoling by David; he didn't visit his wife but remained loyal
and dutiful. Then David had to plot for getting him killed by sending
a letter of his plan to his Army chief through the very same man.
Ultimately, when the plan was executed, the all watching and all
knowing Almighty God sent the Prophet of David's time - Nathan who,
through a parable of a rich man feasting one of his guests not by
taking one amongst his thousands of sheep but by mercilessly taking
the one and only sheep of a poor neighbour- and when David got angry
and said 'definitely that man must die', Prophet Nathan said 'You are
that man'. Later, David understood his folly and he had to undergo
severe penance and agony. Most of the Psalms (particularly Psalms 32 &
51) are written by David after this tragic episode. So, definitely,
involvement of Godly men/ Spiritual people and relying on their valid
advice from time to time is good in the over-all interest/betterment
of the subjects. God has not created any religion. Religion is the
creation of man. While God given edicts, laws and Commandments remain,
all the Man-made religion and philosophies will vanish one day. None
of these can stand the scrutiny of Godly prism. Ultimately, truth only
prevails and that is what we mean by our mono - Sathyameva Jayate.
RK Kutty

http://www.centralchronicle.com/viewnews.asp?articleID=14880

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 5:15:23 PM12/27/09

Abuse Of Power
28 December 2009, 12:00am IST

The way a university professor was branded a 'Naxalite' and assaulted
by policemen in Bihar is most disturbing. According to Jamia Millia
Islamia professor Rahul Ramagundam, he and a companion were beaten up
by the police for asking why homes of Dalits in Amausi village were
being demolished. While we still await the police version of events,
why is it that prima facie we don't find anything surprising about the
events? That's because the police far too often abuse their authority,
and more so in the poorly governed states.

Instances of human rights abuse by the police are too many to recount.
In the past few days, the way former Haryana inspector-general of
police S P S Rathore tried to subvert justice after being accused of
molesting a teen has come to light. This is partly due to the media
having taken up the molestation case as a wrong that needs to be
redressed. But there are many more instances where the police
routinely abuse their authority that go unrecorded and unreported.
Those at the receiving end are more often than not unlettered and poor
people who don't have the means to raise their voices against the
state. It's only when the violations assume shocking proportions such
as the Bhagalpur blindings of nearly three decades ago where several
undertrials were blinded by the police that we sit up and take
notice.

There is a different kind of abuse of power in Naxalite-affected
areas. Here in the name of maintaining law and order, the police often
overstep the line. The incident at Amausi falls in this category.
Anyone who is seen to be sympathetic to tribals or the oppressed is in
the danger of being branded a Naxalite. This is an absurd policy on
the part of the administration. There are so many people who believe
that tribals or Dalits have legitimate grievances against the state
but at the same time are critical of Naxalites and their strategy. If
the police and the administration cannot make this distinction, it
would only prove to be counterproductive to their strategy of
containing Naxalites and other militants.

We need to rethink the way the police function as an institution. The
police haven't yet shed many of their colonial-era trappings and still
have an adversarial relationship with citizens. They haven't been able
to win the trust of the people, something that is reflected in popular
culture. Incidents such as the one involving the Jamia professor who
is ironically a respected Gandhian scholar and activist only help in
reinforcing the poor image of the police.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Abuse-Of-Power/articleshow/5385074.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 5:17:59 PM12/27/09

Q&A
'Government must commit to investigations into mass graves in J&K'

28 December 2009, 12:00am IST

The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in
Kashmir, a human rights group, released a report 'Buried Evidence:
Unknown,

Unmarked, and Mass Graves' recently to highlight the issue of unmarked
mass graves in the Valley. Angana Chatterji , a co-convenor of the
tribunal and professor of anthropology at the California Institute of
Integral Studies, San Francisco, spoke to Humra Quraishi about the
report:

Where are these graves?

These graves are located across the Valley. We documented the
existence of 2,700 unknown, unmarked and mass graves, containing 2,943-
plus bodies, across 55 villages in Bandipora, Baramulla and Kupwara
districts of Kashmir. Of these, 87.9 per cent were unnamed, 154
contained two bodies each and 23 contained between three and 17
bodies. Exhumation and identification have not occurred in sizeable
cases. We examined 50 alleged "encounter" killings by Indian security
forces in numerous districts in Kashmir. Of these, 49 were labelled
militants/foreign insurgents by security forces and there was one case
of drowning. Following investigations, 47 were found killed in fake
encounters and one was identified as a local militant. None were
foreign insurgents.

Why are they unmarked? Is there a pattern and purpose about the
anonymity?

They are unmarked as their identities (of the dead) are unknown. The
armed forces and the Jammu and Kashmir police routinely claim the dead
buried in unknown and unmarked graves to be "foreign militants/
terrorists". If independent investigations were to be undertaken in
all 10 districts, it is reasonable to assume that more than the 8,000
enforced disappearances since 1989 would correlate with the number of
bodies in unknown, unmarked and mass graves.

What explanations did you get from community leaders and from the
local administration?

Gravediggers and community members tell us that the bodies buried in
the 2,700 graves were routinely delivered at night, some bearing marks
of torture and burns. In certain instances of fake encounter killings,
where the bodies of victims have been identified, it was found that
civilians resident in one geographic area in Kashmir were killed in
another area. At times, these bodies were transferred to yet another
area and, then, buried. Some local security forces personnel and state
employees testified to us in confidence. We also attempted to formally
contact senior government and security forces officials, requesting
explanations. Our requests were declined.

We were able to identify graves within selected districts and inquire
into instances where photographic verifications and/or exhumations had
taken place. The graves, we were able to ascertain, hold bodies of men
with few exceptions. Violence against civilian men has expanded spaces
for enacting violence against women in Kashmir. The graveyards have
been placed next to fields, schools and homes, largely on community
land, and their affect on the local community is daunting. The
government of India and the government of Jammu and Kashmir must
commit to transparent investigations into the graves, drawing upon
credible and international expertise, and institute an independent
commission of inquiry.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Government-must-commit-to-investigations-into-mass-graves-in-JK/articleshow/5385075.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 5:25:37 PM12/27/09

'Taliban killed Benazir with Musharraf's consent'
AGENCIES 28 December 2009, 12:52am IST

LAHORE: Holding former President General Pervez Musharraf responsible
for former prime minister Benazir Bhutto's assassination, Pakistan's
high commissioner to Britain Wajid Shamsul Hassan has said that
Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) chief Baitullah Mehsud could not have
proceeded with his plans of assassinating Bhutto without Musharraf's
nod.

A private television channel reported Hassan, as saying that if
Benazir would have been alive, trouble for Musharraf would have
doubled.

"Had Benazir been alive, Musharraf would have been facing legal action
for murdering former Balochistan governor Nawab Akbar Bugti, and
removing the chief justice of Pakistan," The Daily Times quoted
Hassan, as saying.

Hassan said Musharraf had offered a much 'bigger' amnesty under the
National Reconciliation Ordinance to the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz
(PML-N) chief Nawaz Sharif, which allowed him to leave the country
easily following the military coup in 1998.

People across Pakistan paid tributes to slain former premier Benazir
Bhutto and offered special prayers on the second anniversary of her
assassination even as her close aides called on the government to
identify and bring her killers to justice.

The Pakistan People's Party organised special meetings and prayers in
cities and towns all over the country, including Bhutto's ancestral
town of Naudero in Sindh province, to commemorate her death
anniversary. Bhutto's widower President Asif Ali Zardari travelled to
Naudero to participate in meetings there.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Taliban-killed-Benazir-with-Musharrafs-consent/articleshow/5385933.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 5:28:15 PM12/27/09

10 killed, 100 injured in two simultaneous blasts in Pakistan
PTI 27 December 2009, 10:40pm IST

ISLAMABAD: Two near-simultaneous terror strikes on Sunday targeted
Shia religious gatherings in the southern port city of Karachi and the
capital of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, killing at least 10 people and
injuring nearly 100.

A suicide bomber detonated his explosives when police guards prevented
him from entering the Pir Alam Shah Bukhari 'imambargah' or Shia
prayer hall in PoK capital Muzaffarabad.

Provincial minister Ghulam Murtaza Gillani said 10 people were killed
in the attack and eighty people, including some policemen, were
injured.

The 'imambargah' is located in a high-security area near a military
hospital, where the injured were taken.

Witnesses said they had seen the body parts of the bomber at the site.
Scores of people were present in the imambargah, one of the largest
Shia prayer halls in Muzaffarabad, for a gathering organised to mark
the Islamic month of Muharram.

The army cordoned off the area soon after the attack. In Karachi, 20
people were injured when a bomb went off near a Shia procession in
Qasba Colony area. Police described the blast as a low intensity
explosion.

Ambulances rushed the injured to nearby hospitals. Police and
paramilitary Pakistan Rangers cordoned off the area.

The explosion was followed by firing in the area, TV news channels
reported. However, it was not clear who had opened fire.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/10-killed-100-injured-in-two-simultaneous-blasts-in-Pakistan/articleshow/5385576.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 5:30:57 PM12/27/09

US drone strike kills at least five in NW Pakistan: Officials
AFP 27 December 2009, 02:39am IST

MIRANSHAH (PAKISTAN): At least five people were killed on Saturday
when missiles from an unmanned US aircraft hit a suspected militant
compound in Pakistan's northwest tribal belt, security officials
said.

The missiles struck a house in Saidgi village of North Waziristan
tribal district, which borders Afghanistan, officials said.

"Two missiles hit a house, five militants were killed," an
intelligence official said.

Another security official confirmed the drone attack and the toll,
adding that the house belonged to a local tribesman named Asmatullah,
who, he said, had links with Taliban militants.

The two officials refused to be named because of the sensitivity of US
drone attacks in Pakistan, which have inflamed anti-American
sentiment.

Neither official's statements could be confirmed independently.

Residents said that tribesmen had cordoned off the compound
surrounding the house and were searching the rubble.

Today's drone strike is at least the third since December 17 in North
Waziristan, where Islamabad is under growing US pressure to dismantle
Islamist extremist networks along the lawless and porous border with
Afghanistan.

North Waziristan rife with Taliban militants, al-Qaida fighters and
members of the Haqqani network, a powerful group known for staging
attacks on foreign troops in Afghanistan.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/US-drone-strike-kills-at-least-five-in-NW-Pakistan-Officials/articleshow/5383029.cms

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 27, 2009, 5:38:25 PM12/27/09

Bomber kills 5 at Shiite gathering in Pakistan
By ASIF SHAHZAD Associated Press Writer © 2009 The Associated Press
Dec. 27, 2009, 12:45PM

ISLAMABAD — A suicide bomber targeted a large gathering of Shiite
Muslims in the capital of Pakistan-controlled Kashmir on Sunday,
killing five people and wounding 80 — a rare sectarian attack in an
area police said has little history of militant violence.

Muslim militants have fought for decades to free Kashmir, which is
split between India and Pakistan and claimed by both, from New Delhi's
rule. But while Muzaffarabad has served as a base for anti-India
insurgents to train and launch attacks, the capital — and most of the
Pakistani side — has largely been spared any violence, as militants
have focused their firepower across the frontier in the Indian-
controlled portion, police officer Sardar Ilyas said.

The suicide bomber detonated his explosives as police tried to search
him at a checkpoint outside a commemoration of the seventh century
death of the Prophet Muhammad's grandson. The gathering attracted
about 1,000 people, said police officer Tahir Qayum. The five killed
included two police, he said.

Most of the 80 injured were Shiites participating in the tribute, held
every year during the Islamic holy month of Muharram, said Ilyas. Ten
of the wounded are in critical condition, he said. Minority Shiites in
Pakistan are often targeted by radical Sunnis.

During another Shiite gathering in the southern port city of Karachi,
an explosion wounded 30 people, but authorities determined the blast
was caused by gas that had accumulated in a sewer line, said police
chief Waseem Ahmad. Shiites later held a protest on the road and
torched three vehicles, he said.

The bombing in Muzaffarabad highlights the growing extremism of
militants in Pakistani Kashmir. Many of the armed groups in the region
were started with support from Islamabad. But some of them have turned
against their former patrons and joined forces with the Taliban
because the government has reduced its support under U.S. pressure.

The partnership is a dangerous development for Pakistan because it
could enable the Taliban to carry out attacks more easily outside its
sanctuary in the country's tribal areas in the northwest. More than
500 people have been killed in retaliatory attacks since the military
launched a major anti-Taliban offensive in mid-October in the militant
stronghold of South Waziristan near the Afghan border.

In one such revenge attack, three bombs planted in the house of a
government official in Kurram tribal region exploded Sunday, killing
him and his six family members, said police officer Naeemullah Khan.

Police are investigating how the bombs, which were timed to explode,
were planted in the home of a government official in Kurram, Sarbraz
Saddiqi, said police officer Naeemullah Khan. Saddiqi's wife and five
children were also killed in the bombing and three others were
wounded, he said.

The Pakistani government has pledged to persevere in its battle
against the militants despite rising violence, but political turmoil
threatens to distract the government as calls have multiplied for
President Asif Ali Zardari and other senior ruling party officials to
resign following a recent Supreme Court decision to strike down an
amnesty protecting them from corruption charges.

Zardari lashed out at his opponents Sunday during his first public
appearance since the court ruling a week and a half ago, accusing them
of threatening Pakistan's democratic system and "colluding" with
extremists attacking the state.

"It is a conspiracy to weaken Pakistan," said Zardari in a speech
marking the second anniversary of the bombing death of his wife,
former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto.

The amnesty was issued by former President Pervez Musharraf as part of
a U.S.-backed deal to allow Bhutto to return from self-imposed exile
in 2007. After her death, Zardari led the ruling Pakistan People's
Party to victory in 2008.

Zardari enjoys legal immunity while president, but analysts have said
he could be vulnerable if opponents challenge his original eligibility
to run for office.

Opposition leader Nawaz Sharif on Saturday demanded that all those who
benefited from the amnesty, including the interior and defense
ministers, should resign, a tougher stance than he has taken since the
verdict was first issued.

But analysts have said Sharif is wary about provoking too much
conflict to avoid giving the country's powerful military an excuse to
step in and take over.

The military's leadership has indicated it has no interest in toppling
the civilian-led government, but fears persist in a country where the
army has ruled for the majority of Pakistan's 62-year history. The
president alluded to those concerns in his speech.

"We know what will happen when there is a war among institutions,"
said Zardari, standing in front of a few thousand people near Bhutto's
tomb in her ancestral village in southern Pakistan.

He promised a vigorous defense if threatened, saying "if anybody casts
a bad eye on democracy, we will pull out their eyeballs."

Political turmoil is the last thing Washington wants to see as it
presses Pakistan to target militants launching cross-border attacks
against U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan. Pakistan has resisted the
call, saying it has its hands full battling Taliban extremists waging
war against the state.

___

Associated Press writer Hussain Afzal in Parachinar, Ashraf Khan in
Garhi Khuda Bakhsh and Rasool Dawar in Mir Ali contributed to this
report.

BrentRules wrote:
Same Shiite. Different day. 12/27/2009 9:34:10 AM
Recommend: (2) (1)

(98)
Kokey wrote:
So what!! 5 down and 2.5 billion to go. Muslims are killing more
muslims than the US military.
Keep up the good work! 12/27/2009 2:18:59 PM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6788385.html

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 30, 2009, 3:06:22 AM12/30/09

Omar discusses autonomy with PM
By IANS December 30th, 2009

NEW DELHI - Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah Wednesday
morning discussed the Justice Sageer Ahmad’s report on centre-state
relations vis-a-vis Jammu and Kashmir at a meeting here with Prime
Minister Manmohan Singh, official sources said.

Abdullah thanked the prime minister for getting the reports of all the
five working groups - announced and constituted after the second round
table conference on Kashmir in May 2006 - and urged him that a process
to implement the reports should be undertaken.

He is reported to have told Singh that the implementation of the
recommendations of the working groups would help connect the people of
Jammu and Kashmir with the rest of the country in a big way. This, he
feels, would bolster the confidence level and decimate the trust
deficit that exists at the moment.

Abdullah also raised the subject of quiet talks with separatists.

http://blog.taragana.com/politics/2009/12/30/omar-discusses-autonomy-with-pm-10864/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:12:58 AM12/30/09

Imran says Taliban contacted him for peace talks with govt
Agencies
Posted: Dec 30, 2009 at 1451 hrs IST

Lahore Amid authorities' assertion that there would be no talks with
the Taliban until they surrender, Pakistan's cricketer-turned-
politician Imran Khan has said the militant commanders have contacted
him for peace negotiations with the government following his offer to
act as a mediator.

"The Taliban have contacted me for peace negotiations with the
government. But I will only play a mediator's role if the government
gives its consent," Khan said, but did not mention which faction of
the local Taliban had contacted him.

Khan, who heads the Tehrik-e-Insaaf party, has opposed military
operations against the Taliban and other militant groups.

There has been no response from the government to his offer to mediate
with the Taliban.

Some leaders of the ruling Pakistan People's Party and sections of the
media have criticised Khan for what they describe as his "pro-Taliban"
stance.

However, the Taliban in the northwestern Swat valley had welcomed
Khan's offer to broker peace talks.

Khan has called on the PPP-led government to convene a meeting of all
political parties to discuss challenges confronting the country.

"The government first launched military operations (in Swat and
Waziristan) and then took all political parties on board. It must shun
this policy," he said.

A military operation in the Taliban hub of South Waziristan would not
lead to a lasting solution, Khan claimed.

"Ultimately the government will have to come to the table to ensure
peace in the country. If the US is interested in holding talks with
the Taliban in Afghanistan, why is Pakistan holding back?" he asked.

Khan is also critical of US drone attacks in Pakistan's tribal belt
and of the PPP-led government for toeing the American line in the war
on terror.

He accused President Asif Ali Zardari of continuing the policies of
former military ruler Pervez Musharraf.

Significantly, the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI), which allegedly
provided manpower from its seminaries to install the former Taliban
regime in Afghanistan, believes that peace talks cannot be held with
the Pakistani Taliban.

"Negotiations with the Taliban leadership were possible in the past.
It is not the appropriate time for such an exercise now," JUI chief
Maulana Fazlur Rehman said.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik too has made it clear that the federal
government has no intention of holding talks with the Taliban or other
terrorists.

"They must surrender before any peace talks can be initiated," he
said.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Imran-says-Taliban-contacted-him-for-peace-talks-with-govt/561481/

chhotemianinshallah

unread,

Dec 30, 2009, 6:21:38 AM12/30/09

Govt monitoring China's arms sales to Pak: Krishna
Agencies
Posted: Dec 30, 2009 at 1551 hrs IST

New Delhi The government is "closely" monitoring the sale of arms to
Pakistan by China, External Affairs Minister S M Krishna said on
Wednesday.
Along with the statement, also came the assurance that there was peace
and tranquillity at India China border.

"All these developments are closely monitored by the External Affairs
Ministry, by the Defence Ministry and various other ministries and the
Prime Minister. So, let us not get into yet another speculative area,"
he said.

He was replying to a query on China selling arms to Pakistan and if
this would lead to an arms race in the region. China had recently
sought to defend its sale of submarines and warships to Pakistan,
contending that even India was seeking military equipment from US and
Russia.

Maintaining that India desires to maintain peace and tranquillity
along the Sino-India border, Krishna said "I have said and I would
like to repeat again in the dying days of 2009 that India China border
is peaceful, they are tranquil. It is India's desire to maintain peace
and tranquillity at our borders and we will continue to do that".

Chief of Pakistan's naval staff Noman Bashir, who was on a visit to
China recently had talks with Chinese officials for the purchase of
more JF-17 fighter planes and bigger ships than the F22P frigates,
currently ordered by Pakistan.

Since 2005, Pakistan has ordered eight F22P frigates from China. "The
F22P frigate is about 3,000 tons, and now we are talking about 4,000-
ton ships," Bashir had said.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Govt-monitoring-Chinas-arms-sales-to-Pak-Krishna/561495/

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:30:42 AM12/30/09

Taliban threaten further Pakistan attacks
Wednesday, 30 December 2009 10:53

Pakistan's Taliban have claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing
that killed 43 people in the commercial capital Karachi on Monday, and
threatened more attacks.

'My group claims responsibility for the Karachi attack and we will
carry out more such attacks, within 10 days,' said a spokesman.

Asmatullah Shaheen, one of the commanders of Tehrik-Taliban Pakistan
(TTP), or Taliban Movement of Pakistan, told Reuters of the threatened
attacks.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1230/pakistan.html

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:35:40 AM12/30/09

Pakistan Taliban says carried out Karachi bombing
Faisal Aziz
KARACHI
Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:19am EST

KARACHI (Reuters) - Pakistan's Taliban on Wednesday claimed

responsibility for a suicide bombing that killed 43 people in the

commercial capital Karachi, and threatened more attacks on the U.S.
ally.

World

"My group claims responsibility for the Karachi attack and we will

carry out more such attacks, within 10 days," Asmatullah Shaheen, one
of the commanders of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), or Taliban
Movement of Pakistan, who spoke by telephone to a Reuters reporter in
Peshawar.

The prospect of more violence comes at a tough time for embattled
Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari. He already faces political
pressure because corruption charges against some of his aides may be
revived.

And Zardari has yet to formulate a more effective strategy against the
Pakistani Taliban, despite relentless pressure from Washington, which
wants his government to root out militants who cross over to attack
U.S. and NATO-led forces in Afghanistan and then return to their
Pakistan strongholds.

The scale of his challenges was clear on Monday, when a suicide bomber
defied heavy security around a Shi'ite procession, killing 43 people
and triggering riots.

In a sign of mounting frustrations, Pakistani religious and political
leaders called for a strike for Friday to condemn that attack, one of
the worst in Karachi since 2007.

The bloodshed illustrated how the Taliban, whose strongholds are in
the lawless northwest, have extended their reach to major cities in
their drive to topple the government.

"The bombing itself was bad enough, but the violence that immediately
erupted was also very well planned," said Sunni scholar Mufti Muneeb-
ur-Rehman, who blamed Pakistani authorities for the chaos.

"We want the government not only to compensate those killed in the
attacks, but also those who lost their livelihoods, and so we are
calling for a complete strike on Friday," he said.

The Taliban campaign and their hardline brand of Islam -- which
involves public hangings and whippings of anyone who disobeys them -
angered many Pakistanis.

But the Karachi bomb suggested growing violence has raised suspicions
of Pakistan's government.

"The government is using the Taliban as an excuse for everything that
is happening anywhere in the country," said Noman Ahmed, who works for
a Karachi clearing agency.

"The organized way that all this is being done clearly shows that the
terrorists are being sponsored either by the government itself or some
other state that wants to destabilize Pakistan."

SECURITY POLICY

Pakistan's all-powerful military sets security policy. So the key
gauge of public confidence may be how the army's performance is
viewed. In the 1980s, Pakistan's army nurtured militant groups who
fought Soviet occupation troops in Afghanistan. The Taliban emerged in
the 1990's after a civil war in Afghanistan.

Now Pakistan's army faces homegrown militants.

"I don't buy that foreign hands are involved (in the Karachi attack).
They're domestic elements. They're those who were nurtured, trained
and protected in late 1990s," said Sajid Ali Naqvi, head of the
influential Shi'ites' Islami Tehrik movement.

The bombing was one of the bloodiest in Karachi since an October 2007
attack on former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto on her return to the
country that killed at least 139 people.

Shi'ite leaders, as well as Karachi's dominant Muttahida Qaumi
Movement (MQM) political party, backed the strike call, which could
bring the teeming city of 18 million to a standstill.

The high-profile bloodshed had all the hallmarks of the Taliban, who
often bomb crowded areas to inflict maximum casualties. The blast lead
some Pakistanis to conclude that several hands must have been
involved.

"The Taliban, or whoever is behind this, cannot do it without the
support of a government," said Shahid Mahmood, whose perfume and watch
shops were torched in the riots.

"They know that Karachi is the heart of Pakistan and if it goes down,
the country will go down."

(Additional reporting by Kamran Haider, Augustine Anthony and Alamgir
Bitani; Writing by Michael Georgy; Editing by Alex Richardson)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BM15820091230

chhotemianinshallah

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Dec 30, 2009, 6:40:16 AM12/30/09

BSF foils arms smuggling bid along Indo-Pak border
STAFF WRITER 16:52 HRS IST

Jammu, Dec 30 (PTI) BSF has foiled a bid to smuggle explosives and
arms along Indo-Pak border near here, officials said today.

According to BSF officials, in a new strategy adopted by cross-border
militants, a consignment of arms, ammunition, explosive and cash was
thrown from across the border over a fencing of an agriculture field
near Bakarpur-Gharana forward area, about 40 km from here, in the
district yesterday.

The consignment, which was supposed to be collected by persons on this
side of the border, was recovered by BSF jawans during patrolling,
they said.

Fearing that it was IED trap laid by the cross-border militants, BSF
rushed a bomb disposal squad to the site and after several hours of
scanning, they recovered 3.5 kg RDX, three Chinese pistols, 211 rounds
of 9mm pistol, three detonators, three batteries and Rs 3.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/446198_BSF-foils-arms-smuggling-bid-along-Indo-Pak-border

Sid Harth

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Dec 30, 2009, 10:16:06 AM12/30/09

Bangladesh: is the tide turning?

2009-12-03 19:52:29

Bhaskar Roy, who retired recently as a senior government official with
decades of national and international experience, is an expert on
international relations and Indian strategic interests. The views
expressed here are his own, and do not necessarily reflect those of
sify.com

The Awami League government in Bangladesh led by Prime Minister Sheikh
Hasina has succeeded in turning the table on terrorism, sabotage and
extremism in just under 10 months of rule.

One of her promises when she took over in January was the rooting out
of terrorism. Sheikh Hasina has pursued this objective with
determination, yielding significant success, even though there is a
lot more to do. Till about two years ago, Bangladesh had become a
paradise for terrorists from around the world. In fact, the center of
international terrorism was beginning to shift base from Pakistan-
Afghanistan to Bangladesh. Home-grown terrorist groups, the Lashkar-e-
Toiba (LET) and the Harkat-ul-Jehad Al Islami (HUJI) from Pakistan,
and the Harkat-ul-Mujahiddin (HUM) from Kashmir established their
centers in the country. Separatists and terrorists from North East
India like the ULFA, NSCN (I/M), the Bodo, Tripuri and Manipuri groups
were given assistance and support to set up their headquarters and
camps in Bangladesh by the ruling government, intelligence and
security agencies. ULFA was the jewel in the crown among the Indian
Insurgent Groups (IIGs).

Pro-Taliban and Al Qaeda NGOs from the Gulf and Middle East pumped in
money and indoctrination literature. The Al Qaeda shadow begun looming
over Bangladesh along with that of their South East Asian acolytes
like the Abu Sayyat group. During 2002-2004, even the Pakistani-based
and protected international crime lord Dawood Ibrahim was invited in
by Bangladeshi Minsters and intelligence chiefs. Other underworld
criminal dons from India too began to find refuge there.

It was a very troubling scenario for international experts on
terrorism. India, which was bearing the brunt of terrorist attacks
from the Bangladesh platform, followed the Gujral Doctrine of
accommodating smaller neighbours as far as possible. It was
understandable to an extent if the BNP-Jamaat-e-Islami (JEI) coalition
government (2001-2006) co-operated with Pakistan against India. The
JEI is Pakistan’s child, and the post liberation born BNP, currently
headed by Begum Khaleda Zia, became the adopted child of Pakistan.

But why did Khaleda Zia’s powerful sons and other BNP ministers start
leading the country into a whirlpool which would also suck them in
eventually ? That is a difficult question to answer.

But clearly the roots of it came from greed, arrogance and moral
debauchery, some things which ultimately destroyed the Mafia in the
US. Many actions by BNP ministers and law makers and their business
financers had actually begun to resemble the Mafia - extortion,
murders including political killings, drug running by some of their
business associates. Absolute power corrupted absolutely.

Safe under the cover of the overwhelming BNP, the JEI and its Islamist
agenda grew. It remained relatively untouched till recently, but its
far reaching machinations are beginning to come out. The high point of
Sheikh Hasina's anti-terrorism campaign, at least for India, is the
recent arrest of ULFA Chairman Arabinda Rajkhowa in Dhaka. A fortnight
ago, two top ULFA leaders, Foreign Affairs Secretary Shashadar
Choudhury, and Finance Secretary Chitrabon Hazarika, were quietly
handed over to the Indian Border Security Force (BSF) by the
Bangladesh Rifles (BDR).

But the ULFA Commander-in-Chief, Paresh Barua, who was living in the
capital city of Dhaka with his family quite openly for years, has
vanished. Earlier reports said that Rajkhowa was in Bangladesh and
Barua had relocated to China's Yunan province with some followers and
was in the process of setting up a base there. Shashadar Choudhury and
Hazarika have given Indian agencies some details of their connections
with China including arms assistance. Till now China, which has been
in denial of any contact with the ULFA or any other IIGs, has been
silent on this allegation. Indian agencies have enough evidence of
visits of ULFA and NSCN(I/M) leaders to China from Bangladesh, using
Bangladeshi passports on different names. Confessions by Choudhury and
Hazarika will further indict China as a covert supporter of anti-India
terrorism, insurgency and separatism, the "three Evils" that China
itself is fighting against.

There are two other questions. Why did it take so long for the
Bangladeshi agencies to apprehend Aurobindo Rajkhowa, who was hiding
in Dhaka? And how did Paresh Barua who was living in Dhaka under the
protection of intelligence agencies, slip away?

When Sheikh Hasina became Prime Minister the first time in 1996, she
and her party had come to power with people’s support. Her government
(1996-2001), however, inherited a bureaucracy, army and intelligence
apparatus which was BNP made. So while she could not move forward on
most issues, she scored a point with the 1997 Chittagong Hill Tracts
agreement with the tribals of the region giving them greater say in
their affairs. The establishment, however, had the Awami League routed
in 2001 elections.

The current Awami League again has the people's mandate. But sections
of the bureaucracy, the army and especially the intelligence apparatus
are yet to be cleansed fully. BNP-JEI die-hards are still sprinkled
around in the state apparatus. This would answer the two questions
posed earlier.

Sheikh Hasina also floated the idea of a South Asian Counter-terrorism
Task Force. While it is still on the drawing board, it has what the
region needs urgently. Of course, it is not practical to include all
the countries in the first instance. It requires a India-Bangladesh
bilateral beginning with some cautious optimism. This rider is
mentioned because the Bangladesh intelligence apparatus is yet to be
transformed into a constitution abiding civilian controlled agencies.
Among other things, this counter-terrorism proposal will be on top of
the agenda for discussions when she comes to India for a three-day
official visit starting December 19.

Sheikh Hasina obviously wants to improve relations with India. But
will the BNP and its radical allies let her?

http://sify.com/news/bangladesh-is-the-tide-turning-news-columns-jmdtQ3hgeae.html

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