Why Hinduism is a false religion
Samata Ullah
that Hindu-scriptural based casteism is the most virulently anti-Human
ideology the world has even seen.
See here for the Hindu scriptural justification:
http://hindudharma.t35.com/discrimination.htm
http://hindudharma.t35.com/casteism.htm
http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/discrimination.htm
http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/casteism.htm
http://infidels.org/library/modern/ramendra_nath/hindu.html
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/
"When we are working, they ask us not to come near them. At tea
canteens, they have separate tea tumblers and they make us clean them
ourselves and make us put the dishes away ourselves. We cannot enter
temples. We cannot use upper-caste water taps. We have to go one
kilometer away to get water... When we ask for our rights from the
government, the municipality officials threaten to fire us. So we
don't say anything. This is what happens to people who demand their
rights."
"Thevars [caste Hindus] treat Sikkaliars [Dalits] as slaves so they
can utilize them as they wish. They exploit them sexually and make
them dig graveyards for high-caste people's burials. They have to take
the death message to Thevars. These are all unpaid services."
Of course, even the "holy" Bhagavad Gita was responsible for cementing
casteism, as these shall show. The demon Krishna was also a casteist
who tried to be good but could not go that bit further and do the
right thing and abandon casteism, he was trapped by cultural norms. He
was not a "god":
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/General/geeta.html
Here is a quote from Encyclopedia Britannica:
"Yet, by emphasizing that all humans have not only different
propensities for each of the three disciplines of release but also
different responsibilities arising out of their births in different
castes, the Bhagavadgita also provided a powerful justification for
the caste system."
Paul
"Samata Ullah" <sama...@digitalscream.net> wrote in message
news:3681d63c.0204...@posting.google.com...
Shite snipped....
When I see Hindus committing the level of atrocities that Muslims do
worldwide, I'll worry about them...
I see no evidence in the UK that they're anything other than people who mind
their own business...
The only religious group in the UK shouting to set up an "Islamic" state is
the usual suspects... As is the only religion demanding special legal
status...
The only religiously motivated terrorism we have in the UK (unless you
insist on counting in the Irish), is ...... You guessed it... Muslims
again...
Muslims are well over represented in the prison system compared to other
ethnic minorities as well...
Any Hindus hijacking planes and committing suicide bombings in *non-Hindu*
countries? Haven't seen any myself.... Only Muslims do that....
Go to Speakers Corner... Who are the religious fuckwits shouting about
their rights and causes? Mostly Muslims... Haven't seen any Hindus... OK
a few socialists and weirdo xtians from time to time. Still mostly
*Muslims*......
Harinam Acharya
Bhagavad-gita As It Is: www.asitis.com
Marcus
worry, but I can't see anything in any of them that indicates that that day
will ever come.
In the meantime, I'll quite happily get on with them, as I do now.
"Paul" <n...@na.net> wrote in message
news:a94lv0$aooc$1...@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de...
Arif M.
call as "urban myth" ... :-)
sama...@digitalscream.net (Samata Ullah) wrote in message news:<3681d63c.0204...@posting.google.com>...
Samata Ullah
> sama...@digitalscream.net (Samata Ullah) wrote ...
> > Please read all of the shocking things on all the links. You will see
> > ideology the world has even seen.
>
> Human Rights.
Yet we see that casteism was not put up by the Indian government in
the UN conference on racism.
>
> > See here for the Hindu scriptural justification:
>
> Numerous quotes from the Manusmriti, apparently. Whose scripture is
> the Manusmriti?
What Ranjit Mathews is attempting here is a subtle attempt to show
that this book and Hinduism have nothing in common. Regardless, the
Manu Smriti is a book which claims to have been divinely revealed to
God's son, Manu. So not only is it Smriti (law), but Shruti (divinely
revealed) as well. As such, it was implemented by the munerous Hindu
societies throughout the ages, untill British Indian times when
Westernised Hindus could not stand the abhorent teachings of this
ancient Mein Kampf so they declared it null and void for this Yuga
(age), but that was not the case with any unashamed Hindu from ancient
times to british India times. As this is also viewed as a codification
of Vedic laws, it was used as the laws of state, hence the
perpetuation of casteism from ancient times to modern, this book's
teachings survive in Hindu cultural practises. The modern view is
simply apologia not supported by the Manu smriti nor any other
scripture.
>
> > http://hindudharma.t35.com/discrimination.htm
> > http://hindudharma.t35.com/casteism.htm
> > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/discrimination.htm
> > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/casteism.htm
> > http://infidels.org/library/modern/ramendra_nath/hindu.html
> > http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/
> >
> > "When we are working, they ask us not to come near them. At tea
> > canteens, they have separate tea tumblers and they make us clean them
> > ourselves and make us put the dishes away ourselves. We cannot enter
> > temples. We cannot use upper-caste water taps. We have to go one
> > kilometer away to get water... When we ask for our rights from the
> > government, the municipality officials threaten to fire us. So we
> > don't say anything. This is what happens to people who demand their
> > rights."
> >
> > "Thevars [caste Hindus] treat Sikkaliars [Dalits] as slaves so they
> > can utilize them as they wish. They exploit them sexually and make
> > them dig graveyards for high-caste people's burials. They have to take
> > the death message to Thevars. These are all unpaid services."
>
> What can be done* to contain "Sudra" Thevars who treat Dalits as lower
> class to such a degree?
> * given that "Sudras" have the most votes
But again Ranjit Mathews attempts to cloud over the simple fact of
caste violence, attempting to show that in this particular case it was
low-caste on outcaste that it somehow exonerrates casteism or
something. Though there are more reports on all kinds of casteism,
especially high on low or non-caste, we see mathews attempting
obfuscate this.
>
> > Of course, even the "holy" Bhagavad Gita was responsible for cementing
> > casteism, as these shall show. The demon Krishna was also a casteist
> > who tried to be good but could not go that bit further and do the
> > right thing and abandon casteism, he was trapped by cultural norms. He
> > was not a "god":
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/General/geeta.html
> >
> > Here is a quote from Encyclopedia Britannica:
> >
> > "Yet, by emphasizing that all humans have not only different
> > propensities for each of the three disciplines of release but also
> > different responsibilities arising out of their births in different
> > castes, the Bhagavadgita also provided a powerful justification for
> > the caste system."
>
> Very good, but did it provide a powerful justification for casteism
> too?
Yes, as naturally casteism follows from caste system. Krishna cemented
this as he stated that it is a sin to leave ones caste and occupation,
he therefore condoned earlier behaviour (and later) which is recorded
have cemented casteism.
http://www.harekrsna.com/science/hearing/manu/manu.htm
http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam/
http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/
Anil
> [some confusion deleted]
Manu Smriti is not "scripture" but an ancient law book. Also it is no
rocket science to deduce from its name that it is Smriti, not Shruti.
-Anil Trivedi
Seeker
news:a94lv0$aooc$1...@ID-43686.news.dfncis.de...
> The only religiously motivated terrorism we have in the UK (unless you
> insist on counting in the Irish),
Why are the Irish not involved in religious terrorism? They invented it.
Ever heard of Michael Collins?
Seeker
news:zNlt8.36700$VQ2.17...@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Samanta Ullah is nothing but a false propagandist. Here is the real
> Bhagavad-gita As It Is: www.asitis.com
Yes, that the site I read some of it from. It has a very clear definition of
everything and even has some lessons on Sanskrit (sort of like Valmiki's
Ramayana). However, don't you think this is a rather chastised version of
the Geeta? Is it really how it was originally written or did someone adopt
it to modern politically correct environment.
Prabhu Srinivas
news:3681d63c.0204...@posting.google.com...
<wrote lots of crap>
samata, hinduism is a false religion not because of all the crap which
you write, but because you SAY so!!!
haha,
prabhu.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Paul
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
news:a9b2jn$qe3$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Ever hear of Irish nationalism?
RamauKaka
> In the meantime, I'll quite happily get on with them, as I do now.
ofcourse you will, how else will it be acceptable to suck on a hindu's
pussy unless it was religious (yoni worship)
and
dick worship , ( shiva lingum worship ), baboon penis worship
(hanuman god)
hey marcus, why dont you openly admit that you are pervert and
hinduism is the cradle of perversion. thats why you get along so fine
with hindusim.
"if its perverted its bound to be holy hinduism"
Mohandas Karamchand
Gandhi
Paul
"RamauKaka" <jasbir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:db33cfa3.02041...@posting.google.com...
Why *do* you islamic fanatics hate Hindus so much? Is it because you failed
to *completely* destroy their culture?
Also, I would submit that a follower of a religion whose founder was an
admitted paedophile, probably should drop any accusations of perversion.
M. Ranjit Mathews
It can be read in Sanskrit (which presumably hasn't changed in modern
times).
Sanskrit:
vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
English translation:
The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a
learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater
[outcaste].
Given the following meanings, what is the most "politically incorrect"
translation of the verse that you can come up with?
vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped;
brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant;
suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater
(the outcaste); ca--respectively; panditah--those who are so wise;
sama-darsinah--do see with equal vision.
http://www.asitis.com/5/18.html
Seeker
Ever heard of Palestinian nationalism? Irish conflict is about religion.
Seeker
news:7b22a46dcc62c10eb03...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> "Samata Ullah" <sama...@digitalscream.net> wrote in message
> news:3681d63c.0204...@posting.google.com...
>
> <wrote lots of crap>
>
> samata, hinduism is a false religion not because of all the crap which
> you write, but because you SAY so!!!
>
> haha,
> prabhu.
Haha, Prab is taking it personally.
Paul
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
It divides along religious lines... However, the IRA did not target
Protestants specifically... It targeted English specifically, and Northern
Unionists (Who are essentially all protestant)... The English however have
a *large* Catholic population...
The IRA never did anything of significance in Scotland which is
predominantly protestant.. Nor did it do much if anything in Wales...
If the Protestants in NA voted for union with the Irish Republic, they
wouldn't have been targeted either.
So, I submit to you that this is *mostly* a political fight not a religious
one. Although the politics do also tend to divide along religious lines
both in Ireland and in the west of Scotland. I have never met a protestant
Republican for example... And, I've only met maybe one or two Catholic
neutrals/unionists...
Prabhu Srinivas
> "Prabhu Srinivas" <g_prabhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7b22a46dcc62c10eb03...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> > samata, hinduism is a false religion not because of all the crap which
> > you write, but because you SAY so!!!
> >
> > haha,
> > prabhu.
>
> Haha, Prab is taking it personally.
yup. i'm as stauch as they come and any attack is personal...
my room is filled with pictures of ganesha and kali... i use a small
trident as my pen and goat's blood as ink. just as you do namaz 5 times
a day, i suppose.
hinduism
love,
Seeker
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
>
> yup. i'm as stauch as they come and any attack is personal...
>
> my room is filled with pictures of ganesha and kali... i use a small
> trident as my pen and goat's blood as ink.
Very funny. Does the trident pen help you write triplicate copies of
everything you pen? Do you have a platter of Laddoo in your room? Kali Ma,
Ladoo dey.
>just as you do namaz 5 times
> a day, i suppose.
I don't.
>
> hinduism
>
> love,
> prabhu.
Prem,
Seeker
Mike Lamb
"Paul" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:Wdeu8.13585$51.460963@wards...
>
> Why *do* you islamic fanatics hate Hindus so much? Is it because you
failed
> to *completely* destroy their culture?
That's pretty simple, since they would like to take over India and add that
territory
to what they already have, they gotta attack their opisition in everyway
possible.
It's not that they hate hindus worse than say christians or catholics or
whoever,
it's just a matter of whoever they are fighting at the time, trying to
conquer.
---------------------------------
> Also, I would submit that a follower of a religion whose founder was an
> admitted paedophile, probably should drop any accusations of perversion.
Well he as all muslims has to accuse to justify their actions, their hate
against the hindus in this case. As far as they are concerned moe-ham
(aka mohammand) can do no wrong and will justify whatever wrongs
he may have done, regardless to their merit and what we think.
Mike
Prabhu Srinivas
> "Prabhu Srinivas" <g_prabhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:788dd358407c9b0205b...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> > "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > > Haha, Prab is taking it personally.
> >
> > yup. i'm as stauch as they come and any attack is personal...
> >
> > my room is filled with pictures of ganesha and kali... i use a small
> > trident as my pen and goat's blood as ink.
>
> Very funny. Does the trident pen help you write triplicate copies of
> everything you pen? Do you have a platter of Laddoo in your room? Kali Ma,
> Ladoo dey.
kali and laddoo? what a connection! its kali and a morsel of goat meat,
i guess... the proverbial sacrificial lamb. unlike the attic greeks
hindus don't sacrifice bullocks - only goats.
the trident pen is not used on paper... it will tear it. its used on
goatskin.
> >just as you do namaz 5 times
> > a day, i suppose.
>
> I don't.
i am surprised.
hawas,
atanu...@are.berkeley.edu
There you go again, Ranjit, confusing the poor chap with facts. I
suppose in your spare time, you engage in throwing pearls before swine.
Atanu
PS: How does one chastise (sic) the Gita? By warning it of dire
consequences if it does not behave at the next gathering? By reading it
the riot act? By threatening to have its mouth washed with soap?
Shivkumar Singh
Nobody believes lies.
Visit http://www.islamexposed.com.
Islam sucks.
Islam is no religon. Islam the satanic ideology insults God by making
terror merchants and morons like you carry out evil activities in the
name of allah.
Prabhu Srinivas
while?
love,
M. Ranjit Mathews
ranjit_...@yahoo.com (M. Ranjit Mathews) wrote ...
> sama...@digitalscream.net (Samata Ullah) wrote ...
> > ranjit_...@yahoo.com (M. Ranjit Mathews) wrote ...
> > > sama...@digitalscream.net (Samata Ullah) wrote ...
> > > > Please read all of the shocking things on all the links. You will see
> > > > that Hindu-scriptural based casteism is the most virurently anti-Human
> > > > ideology the world has even seen.
> > >
> > > Yet, only Islamic states have opposed the Universal Declaration of
> > > Human Rights.
> >
> > Yet we see that casteism was not put up by the Indian government in
> > the UN conference on racism.
>
> True. Is caste race or is casteism racism? For example, a century back
> when Roman Catholics faced discrimination in the US and they were
> overrepresented in Sing Sing prison by a factor of 3 relative to their
> concentration in the general population, was prejudice against Roman
> Catholics racism; i.e., were Roman Catholics a race?
>
> > > > See here for the Hindu scriptural justification:
> > >
> > > Numerous quotes from the Manusmriti, apparently. Whose scripture is
> > > the Manusmriti?
> >
> > What Ranjit Mathews is attempting here is a subtle attempt to show
> > that this book and Hinduism have nothing in common. Regardless, the
> > Manu Smriti is a book which claims to have been divinely revealed to
> > God's son, Manu. So not only is it Smriti (law), but Shruti (divinely
> > revealed) as well.
>
> Who are the people who currently consider the Manusmriti divinely
> revealed and who consider it (rather than the Indian constitution and
> penal code) the law?
>
> > As such, it was implemented by the munerous Hindu
> > societies throughout the ages, untill British Indian times when
> > Westernised Hindus could not stand the abhorent teachings of this
> > ancient Mein Kampf so they declared it null and void for this Yuga
> > (age), but that was not the case with any unashamed Hindu from ancient
> > times to british India times.
>
> The Manusmriti had long been obsolete when the British showed up. It
> was Mitakshara law that was in vogue in British times, which is why
> the British based their codification of Hindu law* on the Mitakshara
> and not on the Manusmriti.
> * that applied to certain sections of Hindu society
>
> > As this is also viewed as a codification of Vedic laws,
>
> By whom is it viewed as a codification of Vedic laws? Is it viewed
> thus by any legislators that you can name?
>
> > it was used as the laws of state,
>
> It has been used as a basis for civil law; hence the saying, "he ruled
> by the laws of Manu" implying that he was "a just king", although it
> is hardly clear that all his subjects would have agreed that such rule
> was just.
>
> > hence the perpetuation of casteism from ancient times to modern, this
> > book's teachings survive in Hindu cultural practises.
>
> Quite possibly. Likewise, the practice of kissing the black stone at
> the Kabah might date back to cultural practices of pagan Arabs.
>
> > The modern view is
> > simply apologia not supported by the Manu smriti
>
> Why would the modern view need to be supported by the Manu smriti? It
> is not supported by the Panchatantra or the tales of the Arabian
> nights either! So what?
>
> > nor any other scripture.
>
> The Bhagavad Gita seems to be quoted with reasonable frequency in
> support of what some might call "the modern view".
>
> > > > http://hindudharma.t35.com/discrimination.htm
> > > > http://hindudharma.t35.com/casteism.htm
> > > > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/discrimination.htm
> > > > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/casteism.htm
> > > > http://infidels.org/library/modern/ramendra_nath/hindu.html
> > > > http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/
> > > >
> > > > "When we are working, they ask us not to come near them. At tea
> > > > canteens, they have separate tea tumblers and they make us clean them
> > > > ourselves and make us put the dishes away ourselves. We cannot enter
> > > > temples. We cannot use upper-caste water taps. We have to go one
> > > > kilometer away to get water... When we ask for our rights from the
> > > > government, the municipality officials threaten to fire us. So we
> > > > don't say anything. This is what happens to people who demand their
> > > > rights."
> > > >
> > > > "Thevars [caste Hindus] treat Sikkaliars [Dalits] as slaves so they
> > > > can utilize them as they wish. They exploit them sexually and make
> > > > them dig graveyards for high-caste people's burials. They have to take
> > > > the death message to Thevars. These are all unpaid services."
> > >
> > > What can be done* to contain "Sudra" Thevars who treat Dalits as lower
> > > class to such a degree?
> > > * given that "Sudras" have the most votes
> >
> > But again Ranjit Mathews attempts to cloud over the simple fact of
> > caste violence,
>
> There is very little caste violence. Violence tends to be between
> classes; for example, between landed gentry and serfs.
>
> > attempting to show that in this particular case it was
> > low-caste on outcaste
>
> I didn't say that Thevars were low-caste*; I only said that they were
> "Sudras" and hence numerically strong and thus not as easily pushed
> around as (say) Brahmins. The political landscape of Tamilnadu is
> dominated by "Sudra" castes like Thevars, who exert dominance over
> both Dalits and over Brahmins.
> * Does Thevars being "Sudras" necessarily make them low-caste?
>
> > that it somehow exonerrates casteism or something.
>
> If castesim were to be exonerated, then we wouldn't need to find ways
> to contain casteism, would we? As I noted, the perpetrators have more
> votes, so by what means would a democracy contain casteism, given that
> their numerical strength would seem to rule out populist means.
>
> > Though there are more reports on all kinds of casteism,
> > especially high on low or non-caste, we see mathews attempting
> > obfuscate this.
> >
> > > > Of course, even the "holy" Bhagavad Gita was responsible for cementing
> > > > casteism, as these shall show. The demon Krishna was also a casteist
> > > > who tried to be good but could not go that bit further and do the
> > > > right thing and abandon casteism, he was trapped by cultural norms. He
> > > > was not a "god":
> > > >
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/General/geeta.html
> > > >
> > > > Here is a quote from Encyclopedia Britannica:
> > > >
> > > > "Yet, by emphasizing that all humans have not only different
> > > > propensities for each of the three disciplines of release but also
> > > > different responsibilities arising out of their births in different
> > > > castes, the Bhagavadgita also provided a powerful justification for
> > > > the caste system."
> > >
> > > Very good, but did it provide a powerful justification for casteism
> > > too?
> >
> > Yes, as naturally casteism follows from caste system.
>
> Not necessarily; at any rate, the forms of casteism you allude to
> don't necessarily follow. Tamilnadu had numerous castes in ancient
> times, but Tolkappiyar noted (about 2000 years back) that any man
> could become a king. Likewise, it has been observed in recent postings
> that the Bengal, Kerala and Sindh of today have castes but little
> casteism. Ergo, whether 2000 years back or today, casteism doesn't
> necessarily follow from a caste system.
>
> > Krishna cemented
> > this as he stated that it is a sin to leave ones caste and occupation,
> > he therefore condoned earlier behaviour (and later) which is recorded
> > to have cemented casteism.
> >
> > http://www.harekrsna.com/science/hearing/manu/manu.htm
>
> I'll let someone else comment on this.
>
> > http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam/
> > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/
M. Ranjit Mathews
> M. Ranjit Mathews <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Yes, that the site I read some of it from. It has a very clear definition
> >> of everything and even has some lessons on Sanskrit (sort of like
> >> Valmiki's Ramayana). However, don't you think this is a rather chastised
> >> version of the Geeta? Is it really how it was originally written or did
> >> someone adopt it to modern politically correct environment.
>
> > times).
>
> > Sanskrit:
> > vidya-vinaya-sampanne
> > brahmane gavi hastini
> > suni caiva sva-pake ca
> > panditah sama-darsinah
>
> > English translation:
> > The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a
> > learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater
> > [outcaste].
>
> > Given the following meanings, what is the most "politically incorrect"
> > translation of the verse that you can come up with?
>
> > vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped;
> > brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant;
> > suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater
> > (the outcaste); ca--respectively; panditah--those who are so wise;
> > sama-darsinah--do see with equal vision.
> > http://www.asitis.com/5/18.html
>
> There you go again, Ranjit, confusing the poor chap with facts. I
> suppose in your spare time, you engage in throwing pearls before swine.
Swine might not be an entirely fair characterization of Seeker with
respect to this particular discussion (ignoring other threads). He
might not know very much about the Gita and might not have had an
opportunity to peruse it in the light of information of the kind I
have provided.
> Atanu
> PS: How does one chastise (sic) the Gita? By warning it of dire
> consequences if it does not behave at the next gathering? By reading it
> the riot act? By threatening to have its mouth washed with soap?
By threatening that the next time, it will be croaked rather than
sung:-)
atanu...@are.berkeley.edu
>>
>> There you go again, Ranjit, confusing the poor chap with facts. I
>> suppose in your spare time, you engage in throwing pearls before swine.
> Swine might not be an entirely fair characterization of Seeker with
> respect to this particular discussion (ignoring other threads). He
> might not know very much about the Gita and might not have had an
> opportunity to peruse it in the light of information of the kind I
> have provided.
Sorry, I was just using the expression. I had no intention of mixing up
Seeker with swine.
>> PS: How does one chastise (sic) the Gita? By warning it of dire
>> consequences if it does not behave at the next gathering? By reading it
>> the riot act? By threatening to have its mouth washed with soap?
> By threatening that the next time, it will be croaked rather than
> sung:-)
Heh, heh. Or maybe having the Gita set to rap.
Atanu
Seeker
news:1d4c67e3.02041...@posting.google.com...
> atanu...@are.berkeley.edu wrote ...
> > There you go again, Ranjit, confusing the poor chap with facts. I
> > suppose in your spare time, you engage in throwing pearls before swine.
>
> Swine might not be an entirely fair characterization of Seeker with
> respect to this particular discussion (ignoring other threads). He
> might not know very much about the Gita and might not have had an
> opportunity to peruse it in the light of information of the kind I
> have provided.
The information you provided is from the that asitis website. I had already
mentioned that I had some of material from that site. Now, I didn't read the
entire Geeta since, I wasn't required to, and frankly religious texts are
boring.
Seeker
news:a9ccrs$2sal$4...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> PS: How does one chastise (sic) the Gita? By warning it of dire
> consequences if it does not behave at the next gathering? By reading it
> the riot act? By threatening to have its mouth washed with soap?
I am not going to stoop to your level and indulge in third rate name
calling, but I will educate you on something that you probably didn't know.
Firstly, this Geeta hides the fact that Arjuna was a homosexual and a
cross-dresser who did not show any feelings towards women. Secondly, there
are too many passages altered where Arjuna's guru teaches him archery and to
test his skill, the guru had Arjuna shoot arrows at birds and other small
animals (mice etc). Some times, the animals are killed to settle bets and
prove points that are moot. These passages now stand diametrically opposite
to the Hinduism du-jour, so they have been altered.
Mice and birds now form gods in the Hindu religion, but Arjuna and his pious
guru were out there killing them without any regard for life and the hindu
concept of reincarnation.
Habshi
<4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote:
>Firstly, this Geeta hides the fact that Arjuna was a homosexual and a
cross-dresser who did not show any feelings towards women. <
!!! What nonsense . Arjuna dressed as a woman and became
employed as a dancer at a King's court because he was supposed to hide
his identity according to the term of the 14 year exile . He fell in
love with the King's daughter and she married him later . He had sons
, one of them was killed in the Mahabharta battle .
Seeker
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > Very funny. Does the trident pen help you write triplicate copies of
> > everything you pen? Do you have a platter of Laddoo in your room? Kali
Ma,
> > Ladoo dey.
>
> kali and laddoo? what a connection!
The connection is between Ganesh and Laddoo since you said you have pictures
of Ganesh in your room. Besides Ganesh is the son of Siva who hold the
trishul, and what is Siva's relation to Durga, Kali? Do you see the Laddoo
connection. Besides, I like Laddoo (moti-choor laddoo especially).
> its kali and a morsel of goat meat,
> i guess... the proverbial sacrificial lamb. unlike the attic greeks
> hindus don't sacrifice bullocks - only goats.
You don't want to sacrifice a bull after Ninda gave Siva a ride. besides too
many Moslems in India are killed for slaughtering bulls. Bajrang Dal has
made it their mission to attack, kill or destroy anyone sacrificing a bovine
holiness.
>
> the trident pen is not used on paper... it will tear it. its used on
> goatskin.
What is it used to.
>
> > >just as you do namaz 5 times
> > > a day, i suppose.
> >
> > I don't.
>
> i am surprised.
Why?
>
> hawas,
> prabhu.
Not sure what hawas means.
adios,
Guruswamy Seeker.
Seeker
decided to indulge in some chandra gazing to become a total lunatic.
"Prabhu Srinivas" <g_prabhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a28641cb245778d5eaf...@mygate.mailgate.org...
SubirK
>
> http://hindudharma.t35.com/discrimination.htm
providing proof from one's own web-site is symptomatic of the ususal
mussulmanic tautology, e.g., the truth is in quoran, quooran is da
truth.
> http://infidels.org/library/modern/ramendra_nath/hindu.html
these mussulmanics are so used to their brain-dead followers clicking
on the url, that they don't realize that infidels.org has plenty of
material ripping apart the mussulmanic religion, too.
>
> Here is a quote from Encyclopedia Britannica:
>
> "Yet, by emphasizing that all humans have not only different
> propensities for each of the three disciplines of release but also
> different responsibilities arising out of their births in different
> castes, the Bhagavadgita also provided a powerful justification for
> the caste system."
here's simple quote from the quran(the Cow chapter,2:190)
"Kill them wherever you find them".
In one case, it is acceptable to quote one sentence from a book as
"proof" while in the mussulmanic case, it is "out of quontext".
knaray6684
uttara and this son was killed in the war.
...kt
"Habshi" <hab...@anony.com> wrote in message
news:pb4kbu8plbr9bf6i8...@4ax.com...
Seeker
> Also, I would submit that a follower of a religion whose founder was an
> admitted paedophile, probably should drop any accusations of perversion.
Did you read this "fact" on this newsgroup? Get a life, liar.
Seeker
news:a9c8a2$bvt$1...@iac5.navix.net...
> Well he as all muslims has to accuse to justify their actions, their hate
> against the hindus in this case.
Moslems don't hate Hindus. Hindus, however, hate Moslems and feel justified
in doing so. That's the difference.
Seeker
>
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> >
> >
>
> It divides along religious lines... However, the IRA did not target
> Protestants specifically... It targeted English specifically, and
Northern
> Unionists (Who are essentially all protestant)... The English however
have
> a *large* Catholic population...
How large? Is it limited to the Irish labors imported to do menial jobs?
>
> The IRA never did anything of significance in Scotland which is
> predominantly protestant.. Nor did it do much if anything in Wales...
Because they view them as being subjugated by the English just the same.
> So, I submit to you that this is *mostly* a political fight not a
religious
> one.
Sorry, but I think you are presenting a hygienic view of the conflict. Many
Irish have told me themselves that the conflict is about religion.
The Palestinian conflict is not about religion, it is about land.
Seeker
news:a9d13j$70d$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> In soc.culture.indian M. Ranjit Mathews <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Heh, heh. Or maybe having the Gita set to rap.
>
> Atanu
I have heard Indian rap at one Indian restaurant that I go to. Frankly, it
sounds pretty bad. You can't ragas and ghazals etc.
Seeker
You prove my point of Geeta being chastized.
Kamala Subramaniam, in Mahabharata, p. 260-261 describes how Arjuna became
one of gay while hiding during his last year of exile, according to the
Krisna's plan. There, dressed as a woman, he wore his hair in braids,
behaved in a feminine manner, and taught dancing and singing to young girls
with no attraction for them.
Mike Lamb
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
All that, both instances, would depend on how one would define hate.
knaray6684
court he was in the disguise of a woman.
...kt
"knaray6684" <knara...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Rbqu8.37591$CH1.31658@sccrnsc02...
Sauron
"RamauKaka" <jasbir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:db33cfa3.02041...@posting.google.com...
> "Marcus" <idon...@it.ok> wrote in message
news:<U%nt8.2004$Ut3.1...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
>
> > In the meantime, I'll quite happily get on with them, as I do now.
>
> ofcourse you will, how else will it be acceptable to suck on a hindu's
> pussy unless it was religious (yoni worship)
Don't mix up your daily traditions with others religion
>
> and
>
> dick worship , ( shiva lingum worship ), baboon penis worship
> (hanuman god)
Wow so that is your time honored traditions huh
>
> hey marcus, why dont you openly admit that you are pervert and
> hinduism is the cradle of perversion. thats why you get along so fine
> with hindusim.
It's amazing you can type and suck dick at the same time.
>
> "if its perverted its bound to be holy hinduism"
> Mohandas Karamchand
> Gandhi
Sauron
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
Yah and Mohammed slept with a 8 year old kid.
>
>
Sauron
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
I agree with you on that one
>
>
Sauron
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
>
>
knaray6684
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
Your quote is out of context. Some of us have Kamala Subramanyam's book with
us. That he was cross-dressing is not the issue. He was doing so in Virata
king's court in order to hide himself and not being recognized by others. He
was able to conveniently do so because he had a curse imposed on him by
Rambha in Heaven when he showed disinclination to her flirting. Get a few
facts right before blabbering. Hindu mythological are extremely intertwined
in their story content and in providing excellent consistency to the story
and the plot. That is why they are great epics and adorn the literature of
the world. No human being upon this Earth was able to construct epics of
that dimension and that consistency of thought.
...kt
Seeker
>
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > Moslems don't hate Hindus. Hindus, however, hate Moslems and feel
> justified
> > in doing so. That's the difference.
>
> All that, both instances, would depend on how one would define hate.
Let's stick with the dictionary definition "to feel hostility or animosity
toward." Most Moslems have no reason to hate Hindus. Hindus hate Moslems
because of the Moslem military campaign in India.
Seeker
news:LPru8.3553$ef2.167...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
True, Pakistan has an issue of Kashmir to hate India, but I don't think most
Pakistanis really hate Indians, they are just weary of them. Not trusting is
more like it. Do you think they are wrong?
Seeker
>
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> news:a9dd84$lio$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> > <atanu...@are.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> > news:a9d13j$70d$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
> > > In soc.culture.indian M. Ranjit Mathews <ranjit_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > Heh, heh. Or maybe having the Gita set to rap.
> > >
> > > Atanu
> >
> > I have heard Indian rap at one Indian restaurant that I go to. Frankly,
it
>
> I agree with you on that one
Wow! For once we agree on something.
Seeker
He did not. Besides I quoted a reference.
Seeker
>
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> became
> > one of gay while hiding during his last year of exile, according to the
> > Krisna's plan. There, dressed as a woman, he wore his hair in braids,
> > behaved in a feminine manner, and taught dancing and singing to young
> girls
> > with no attraction for them.
> >
> >
>
> Your quote is out of context. Some of us have Kamala Subramanyam's book
with
> us. That he was cross-dressing is not the issue. He was doing so in Virata
> king's court in order to hide himself and not being recognized by others.
He
> was able to conveniently do so because he had a curse imposed on him by
> Rambha in Heaven when he showed disinclination to her flirting. Get a few
> facts right before blabbering.
I did my best to get the facts right. Why won't you consider the possiblity
that this curse is what made him gay?
> Hindu mythological are extremely intertwined
> in their story content and in providing excellent consistency to the story
> and the plot.
True.
Mike Lamb
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
Then I suggest that you also look up the dictionary's
meanings of hostiliy and animostiy.
But more than even that, people ultimately defines words
according to their own understanding and thought.
Therefore it is very possible and practical for muslims to
hate just as much as the hindus. In this the definitions of
hostility and animosity applies just as much as people
just hating them for who they are. But remember there
is a reason for everything and there is a reason to hate!
In this case, it is up to you to figure why hindus or anyone
would hate muslims. Not just in Pakistan, but anywhere.
Prabhu Srinivas
> "Prabhu Srinivas" <g_prabhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ce6933d2d35d54d152...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> > "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
>
> > > Very funny. Does the trident pen help you write triplicate copies of
> > > everything you pen? Do you have a platter of Laddoo in your room? Kali
> > > Ma, Ladoo dey.
well you said - "kali ma laddoo dey"... is moti-choor = moti pak? (i
don't mean pakistan or anything like that)
> > its kali and a morsel of goat meat,
> > i guess... the proverbial sacrificial lamb. unlike the attic greeks
> > hindus don't sacrifice bullocks - only goats.
>
> You don't want to sacrifice a bull after Ninda gave Siva a ride. besides too
> many Moslems in India are killed for slaughtering bulls. Bajrang Dal has
> made it their mission to attack, kill or destroy anyone sacrificing a bovine
> holiness.
slaughtering bulls? no man, only sick ones are slaughtered... since
hindus won't do it, the muslims do. bajrang dal is actually not very
wrong as it is indeed the duty of the govt. to stop cow slaughter simply
because its outlawed in most states in india. or, it could remove these
laws and make the shadiness public.
> > the trident pen is not used on paper... it will tear it. its used on
> > goatskin.
>
> What is it used to.
its used to write.
> > hawas,
> > prabhu.
>
> Not sure what hawas means.
lust.
> Guruswamy Seeker.
guruswamy? what's that supposed to mean?
Seeker
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> news:a9d45i$uhl$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> > "Prabhu Srinivas" <g_prabhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ce6933d2d35d54d152...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> > > "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> >
> > > > Very funny. Does the trident pen help you write triplicate copies of
> > > > everything you pen? Do you have a platter of Laddoo in your room?
Kali
> > > > Ma, Ladoo dey.
>
> well you said - "kali ma laddoo dey"... is moti-choor = moti pak? (i
> don't mean pakistan or anything like that)
I am not sure what moti-pak is, but I suspect it is the same thing. The
ladoo is made of tiny round beads of sweat dough stuck togather to make a
ladoo. It's really good. The other type of laddoo is made of a powedered
base stuck togather in a round ball.
> > You don't want to sacrifice a bull after Ninda gave Siva a ride. besides
too
> > many Moslems in India are killed for slaughtering bulls. Bajrang Dal has
> > made it their mission to attack, kill or destroy anyone sacrificing a
bovine
> > holiness.
>
> slaughtering bulls? no man, only sick ones are slaughtered... since
> hindus won't do it, the muslims do. bajrang dal is actually not very
> wrong as it is indeed the duty of the govt. to stop cow slaughter simply
> because its outlawed in most states in india. or, it could remove these
> laws and make the shadiness public.
I don't know. I think passing laws like these, gets a govt into something
that's not it's job in the first place. In this sense, Moslems, Christians,
Parsees etc are prevented from doing something they don't have a problem
with. BTW, it has been two weeks since I ate any beef after posting an
article here on the American beef industry. Sorry, didn't mean to gross you
out.
I know in northern India this one thing has caused more riots than probably
anything else.
>
> > > the trident pen is not used on paper... it will tear it. its used on
> > > goatskin.
> >
> > What is it used to.
>
> its used to write.
What do you write with it? Is it used for some religious ceremony involving
Kali? If I remember right Durga is the consort of Shiva, and Shiva holds a
trushal (sp ?). That's what I have been trying to understand.
>
> > > hawas,
> > > prabhu.
> >
> > Not sure what hawas means.
>
> lust.
Thanks, I learned a new Hindi word.
>
> > Guruswamy Seeker.
>
> guruswamy? what's that supposed to mean?
Guru + Swamy. Just trying to be funny. After learning about all these new
things like Hindus' slaughtering goats, and the trident pen, etc., I feel
like a Hindu scholar. Overall, though, I feel I have picked up a lot of
knowledge regarding Hinduism.
Paul
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
Suggest you go to any *civilised* country and shag a girl the same age Aisha
was at the time Mohammed took her..
Let us know how you get on with the police. Also we'll see what the press
refer to you as...
Paul
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> "Paul" <no...@none.net> wrote in message
news:thgu8.13598$51.461557@wards...
> >
> > "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > > Ever heard of Palestinian nationalism? Irish conflict is about
religion.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It divides along religious lines... However, the IRA did not target
> > Protestants specifically... It targeted English specifically, and
> Northern
> > Unionists (Who are essentially all protestant)... The English however
> have
> > a *large* Catholic population...
>
> How large? Is it limited to the Irish labors imported to do menial jobs?
What planet are you on? England has *always* had a large Catholic
minority... Its the 2nd largest religious group after Anglican in England.
The ones I know are not Irish or of Irish ancestry...
Your question is clearly rhetorical..
> >
> > The IRA never did anything of significance in Scotland which is
> > predominantly protestant.. Nor did it do much if anything in Wales...
>
> Because they view them as being subjugated by the English just the same.
They also view them as Celtic countries... And, they *do* view the English
as being at fault for the NA mess.
>
> > So, I submit to you that this is *mostly* a political fight not a
> religious
> > one.
>
> Sorry, but I think you are presenting a hygienic view of the conflict.
Many
> Irish have told me themselves that the conflict is about religion.
Do you *live* here? Some may view it as religious... Its actually all
about political control.... Not to mention rival protection rackets and
drug dealers on both sides of the conflict...
The most sectarian people I know haven't been in a church in 10 or more
years... Its a "racial/political" thing...
Prabhu Srinivas
> I am not sure what moti-pak is, but I suspect it is the same thing. The
> ladoo is made of tiny round beads of sweat dough stuck togather to make a
> ladoo. It's really good. The other type of laddoo is made of a powedered
> base stuck togather in a round ball.
yeah that's the one... its very delicious! i think the granular one is
made in north india... the other in south india.
> I don't know. I think passing laws like these, gets a govt into something
> that's not it's job in the first place. In this sense, Moslems, Christians,
> Parsees etc are prevented from doing something they don't have a problem
> with. BTW, it has been two weeks since I ate any beef after posting an
> article here on the American beef industry. Sorry, didn't mean to gross you
> out.
i really don't care what kind of meat people eat... its just meat
according to me. besides, cow slaughter does take place and to revolt
against it is being stupid. where will we get the leather from? of
course, boycotting leather (animal skin) itself is noble...
but what do you mean by muslims etc. being "prevented from doing
something they don't've a problem with"!!! it sounds contradictory. its
better that such things are under govt. control (esp. in a country like
india) where anarchy reigns.
> I know in northern India this one thing has caused more riots than probably
> anything else.
oh yes... the 1857 sepoy mutiny falsely glorified as "a war of
independence".
> What do you write with it? Is it used for some religious ceremony involving
> Kali? If I remember right Durga is the consort of Shiva, and Shiva holds a
> trushal (sp ?). That's what I have been trying to understand.
oh forget it... i hate these instruments anyway... a pity that hindu
militancy is so reactionary. whereas the islamic militants have
graduated to the AK-47 being the symbol of their struggle, hindus remain
rooted in the past and brandish swords and tridents!
> Thanks, I learned a new Hindi word.
don't you know hindi?
> Guru + Swamy. Just trying to be funny. After learning about all these new
> things like Hindus' slaughtering goats, and the trident pen, etc., I feel
> like a Hindu scholar. Overall, though, I feel I have picked up a lot of
> knowledge regarding Hinduism.
the trident pen again... maybe i might be credited with its invention
one day!
hindus do slaughter goats... happens at the kali temples. thoku123 might
say that its a dalit tradition as some "scholars" seem to indicate that
kali is a dravidian goddess.
p.
Shakil Sarwar
<4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote:
>> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
>
>> > Moslems don't hate Hindus. Hindus, however, hate Moslems and feel
>> justified
>> > in doing so. That's the difference.
>>
>> All that, both instances, would depend on how one would define hate.
>
>Let's stick with the dictionary definition "to feel hostility or animosity
>toward." Most Moslems have no reason to hate Hindus. Hindus hate Moslems
>because of the Moslem military campaign in India.
Following is just a sampling of hindu hatred towards Muslims. Enjoy!
The communal Hindu leaders of India indulge, often, in calling the
Muslims of India intruders; nay, the BJP leader L.K. Advani and the
Shiva Sena leader Bal Thackeray ask the Muslims, every now and then,
to leave India for Arabia or any other Muslim country. They take pride
in declaring themselves as the original inhabitants of India and
claiming that country as exclusively theirs.
It seems they have totally forgotten that their ancestors entered
India from the north-western direction before Christ, tortured,
killed, oppressed, drove many away and subjugated the few remaining
original inhabitants of the then India called Dravidans.
The recorded History reveals it decisively that the Muslims from
Arabia and the neighboring region came to the south-western coast of
India and Chittagong port area and settled there about from the time
of the prime and last Prophet of Allah Muhammad (PBUH) i.e. the 6th
century AD.
If we go as back as to the inception of human habitation on earth, we
find that the first man 'Adam' being cast down from Heaven settled
with his consort 'Hawa' at 'Arafat'- the hilly tract of land in
Arabia. Their progeny multiplied there and moved to all directions
with the advance of time. Every region they inhabited was new and
every where they were new-settlers. And thus, none ofthe human race
i.e. the progeny of 'Adam' and 'Hawa' can claim to be original
anywhere and no place can be his own.
Before the discovery of America done by Columbus, there lived the
aboriginals; the Britishers and others settled there and subjugated
the aboriginals. But, the aboriginals did neither regard the settlers
as intruders nor did they behave with the settlers in the hostile way.
The Christians from Europe began coming to India from the time of the
emperor Jahangir, they increased in number during the British rule in
India and multiplied to the tune of crores till now. But, the Hindus
do not call them intruders or ask them to leave India for Europe or
elsewhere.
To the surprise and regret of all, the communally frenzied Hindus of
India call only the Muslims intruders and ask them to leave India.
They cannot tolerate the Muslims and so, torture them, kill them and
oppress them in a hundred and one ways.
Now, if the Hindus cannot bear with the Muslims, behave inimically
with them all the time, they need to segregate the Muslims by allowing
them a separate area of land compatible to the number of them, in
order that the Muslims can live in peace and tranquility. Or, the
communal unrest will haunt over India ever and anon to the woe and
weep of not only the Muslims but the Hindus also.
Source: "None is Intruder and None is Original" by Kazi Abdul Matin,
Al Islam, Jan 1998, pp.34-35.
____________________________________________________
There are some surprising similarity between the pre-WWII Germany and
the BJP-run India. The then German slogan was - 'One Germany, one
nation, and one leader (Hitler)'. BJP's 1998 pre-election slogan was -
'One country, one nation, one culture'. Using this smokescreen, they
are now denying their long-held spirit of nationalism. For the last
fifty years, it was constantly stated, 'In India, unity is in
diversity.' But the new slogan ('One country …') gained ample momentum
with the explosion of atomic bomb.
On the occasion of centennial birthday celebration Nirod Chandra
Chowdhuri acknowledged, 'The present-day Hindus cherish Muslim
bashing' [The Desh, Calcutta, Nov 1, 1997]. It can be easily observed
that the structure of the Hindu society lends itself to widespread
discrimination and societal gradation known as caste system. Religious
and therefore, societal rights, privileges and treatments are not
equally applied to the four classes (castes) of Hindu society. On the
contrary, Islam has the same set of rules for every Muslim. Aswin
Dasgupta wrote, "The innermost nature of Hindu society is ugly. The
society of Manu-Sanghita is founded on the premise of
birth-differences. Human rights are denied in this society… In the
society of Manu-Sanghita the Brahmins are not to be killed. For a
particular crime whereas the upper caste will receive lighter
punishment, the lower caste will pick up the brunt of it. In this
society, an individual is identified by his caste. Similarly, an
individual's rights are inherited from whatever rights his caste
grants him. A man's duties are ascertained from the duties the caste
has bestowed upon him. Hindu society looses all its historic existence
if caste system is not taken into consideration... The last two
thousand years of Hindu society had been running under the umbrella of
Manu-Sanghita. As long as the political power was at the grips of
Hindu kings they used to protect the caste-based society of Manu
Sanghita. They used to look after the Brahmins and the cows and keep
the lower caste suppressed… Basically this is how the Hindu religion
was represented throughout the ages. This fact should be specially
borne in mind while discussing anything about the Hindu religion and
politics." [Independence And Other Topics, Ananda Publishers,
Calcutta, August 1992, p. 126].
In 1948 poet Jasimuddin wrote in his book 'Choley Musafir' (There Goes
The Traveller) that one of his Indian friends got very irritated for
branding India as 'Hindustan' (Land of the Hindus). Now compare that
reaction with the mentality of today's Indians in the words of noted
Indian Journalist Kuldip Nair "In the past, the Hindus, as the
majority community, used to be quite careful while talking about the
minorities. They were generally concerned not to hurt the sentiments
of the minority. Now-a-days, many Hindus can be heard saying -- it is
high time that non-Hindus get to learn how to live in a
Hindu-dominated social structure." [The Daily Bhorer Kagoj, March 3,
1998].
Language is one of the elements that may help foster nationalism, but
the fact that only language can't build up nationalism, rather it
culminates in communalism, can be evidenced from the history of
undivided Bengal. Many famous Hindu writers remained 'bhadralok'
throughout their lives. Names of Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Michael
Madhusudan Dutta, Bankimchandra Chatterjee, Bhudeb Mukherjee,
Vivekanda, Iswarchandra Biddayasagar, Rameshchandra Dutta, Aksaykumar
Mitra, Dijendralal Roy, Girishchandra Gosh and above all, Rabindranath
Tagore readily come in mind in this context. "Only the Muslims can't
be blamed for creating communalism in Bengal; Hindu communalism was
born under the leadership of bhadralok in parallel. This is due to the
fact that these backward-looking bhadraloks became eager to belittle
the Muslim rule in Bengal by glorifying the conditions in pre-Muslim
era. Arbind Gosh equated 'kalimata' with the motherland through the
use of politicized theory of Veda. Bipinchandra Pal and Sarola Devi
instructed to celebrate 'kali puja' and 'shivaji festival' with much
pomp and grandeur. In the third decade, 'shakti' philosophy was
followed by the party henchmen involved in political extortionism.
Even Chittaranjan Das, the most liberal political leader, received
inspiration from Vivekananda and Ramakrishna Parom Hongsa. Even to the
story-writers like Saratchandra 'Hindustan [Bharat] is the homeland
for the Hindus.' " [Bengal Divided by Joya Chatterjee, 1995].
Hindu writers never considered Muslims as Bengalees. That's why we
hear Saratchandra Chatterjee say "Football game was in progress
between the Bengalees and the Muslims." in his widely-read novel
'Srikanta' .
Owing to the partisan policy adopted by the British in the Indian
subcontinent, Muslims were the hardest hit. British historian William
Hunter aptly wrote in 1871 [i.e. after the first armed insurgency by
the natives against the British Raj] -- 'A hundred and seventy years
ago it was almost impossible for a well-born Musalman in Bengal to
become poor; at present it is almost impossible for him to continue
rich.' [The Indians Musalmans by W. W. Hunter, Khoshroz Publications
Ltd (Bangladesh Edition), p.141]. The defeated [at the hands of Muslim
conquerors] Hindus of this subcontinent never accepted the Muslims
rulers cordially. But they didn't have the audacity to say or write
about it at that time. There goes the saying that when an elephant
gets herself trapped in a ravine then even the bats dare to kick on
her. Likewise when the losing Muslims were in dire condition in the
arena of politics, economy and education then the Hindus, specially
the Hindu writers, took revenge on the Muslims by hurling derogatory
word-bombs.
Shahittyo Samrat (meaning 'Great Emperor of Literature') Bankimchandra
Chatterjee spewed out his venom against the Muslims in his novels like
Anandamoth, Durgesnandini, Kopalkundola, Devi Choudhurani,
Bishbrikhkha, etc. by attributing vulgar expletives like mlechcha,
jobon, nerey (clean-shaven), pashondo (rogue), pamor (vile), monkey,
beef-eater, bearded men, etc. He also identified them as dacoits,
pirates (harmad), adulterers, betomij (naughty), barbarians, zalem
(oppressor), beyrahom (of low origin), etc. That is to say, Bankim did
not find any good quality in the Muslims. Muslims were never
bhadderlok (belonging to the civil society) in his eyes. After
visiting Dhaka, he once wrote that he did not find anything other than
clean-shaven dogs on the street, and clean-shaven Muslim culprits in
the courts. Many Hindu writers and politicians treaded the footsteps
of Bankim in their writings.
A dialogue from a drama of noted dramatist Girish Gosh reads like this
-- "The duty of a hero is to uphold the sovereignty of his motherland
whereas that of a Hindu is to kill the Muslims." Not only did the
Hindus killed numerous Muslims in the recent past during riots to
carry out this sacred duty, they continue to do so in modern times in
Kashmir, Assam and Bihar. In many states specially in Maharashtra,
West Bengal and Assam they continue to discriminate and/or harass
Muslims. Philosopher-cum-poet Rishi Arbind wrote in a magazine called
'Sandhya' (Evening, edited by himself) -- 'Hindus want to drive away
not only the English but also the Muslims from the Indian
subcontinent.' This type of extradition continues to-date.
Bengali-speaking Muslim Indians are still being 'pushed back' into
Bangladesh. Proboth Kumar Sanyal wrote in his novel 'Hashu-Banu' --
'These Muslims know to spread their population by robbing [implying --
converting & marrying] [Hindu] women only.'
"All the Muslims in Bombay city are basically robbers, dacoits,
hooligans and wretched" -- commented Bal Thachery, chieftain of Shiva
Sena, during the occurring of a bloody riot at Meerut in 1987. 'When
Hussain Shahed Suhrawardy joined the prayer congregation arranged by
Mahatma Gandhi in Calcutta, Hindus firstly murmured and later started
to yell out at Suhrawardy with these words -- 'Muslims are pigs,
murderers, robbers, beef-eaters -- hang this degenerated race with
lasso.' [The Last Days of British Raj by Mosley Leonard].
Comrade Muzaffer Ahmad, founder of the Indian Communist Party, wrote
-- "Muslims were not allowed to take tea at any Hindu-owned
restaurants or hotels in the city of Calcutta." [Kazi Nazrul Islam:
Shritikotha (Memoirs of Kazi Nazrul Islam)]. Late Nazir Hossain,
author of Dhakar Kingbodonti, wrote about his unpleasant student-life
experience at a Hindu-owned sweet shop in Narayanganj during the
pre-partition era. The shop owner drove him away from the shop. Pundit
Nehru traced the origin of this type of mentality of the Hindus in his
book 'Discovery of India' -- "Ninety eight percent of the Bengali
Muslims are converts from the lower rung of the Hindu society." [my
translation from Bengali]. In the caste-based society, scheduled caste
is already looked down upon and is considered 'untouchable'. As such,
as per Nehru, the converted Muslims are worthy of more hatred. This,
in fact, had been the reality.
Once upon a time, a saint by the name of Suddhananda Swami wanted to
cleanse the Indian society of the Muslims. His disciples asked, 'Since
a person becomes Hindu by birth only, not by conversion, how will the
caste of a converted Muslim be determined?' Swami replied that he
would create a new caste for the converted Muslims so that their
status would be lower than sudras.
While trying to explore the origion of Two Nation Theory, Nirad
Chandra Choudhuri acknowledged, "A cold dislike for the Muslim settled
down in our hearts, putting an end to all real intimacy of
relationship. Curiously enough, with us, the boys of Kishorganj, it
found visible expression in the division of our class into two
sections, one composed purely of Hindus and the other of Muslims. We
never came to know all the circumstances of this division. Whether or
not the Muslim boys had also expressed unwillingness to sit with us,
for some time past we, the Hindu boys, had been clamouring that we did
not want to sit with the Muslims boys because they smelt of onions.
The authorities of the school may have heard of this. It is also
possible that they acted on their own initiative. A third possibility
is that they received instructions from the Inspector of Schools. In
any case, they carried out a change of deep significance." [The
Autobiography of an Unknown Indian, p.232].
Journalist-cum-litteratuer-cum-politician Abul Mansoor Ahmad and Abul
Kalam Shamsuddim described their bitter experiences of attending
classes with their Hindu colleagues.
In the book "Inside Bangladesh Today", published after the
independence of Bangladesh, Indian journalist Basant Chatterjee wrote,
"There are only two classes in the Bengal -- one is of lower caste
comprising of the Muslims and the other is of higher caste comprising
of the Hindus." [my translation from Bengali].
Hindus couldn't get rid of their hatred and malice toward the Muslims
even after living side by side for hundreds of years. In this regard,
M.N. Roy, the noted Indian thinker, wrote in his book "Historical Role
of Islam" -- "No other civilized nation in the world is as ignorant as
the Indian Hindus regarding their knowledge of Islamic history. They
harbor such hatred against Islam. … Highly educated and
highly-cultured Muslims hailing from good families are considered to
be Mlechcha, uncivilized and barbarians." [my translation].
In the novel Gora, Rabindranath Tagore subtly expressed his hatred
toward Muslims through a statement of his hero Gora who addressed his
oppressed Muslims subjects in these words -- "Your Mohammad did not
preach the religion in a good manner."
Litteratuer Motahar Hossain Choudhury once asked Rabindranath on the
premises of Shanti Niketon, "How come there is no mention of Islam or
the prophet in your writings?" Replied the poet, "I started to read
Quran but could not advance much. Besides, I did not like the
character of rasul." [Culled from an essay 'Islami Shangskritir
Ruprekha' (Outlines of Islamic Culture) by Dr. Mustafizur Rahman].
Being invited to attend a felicitation programme on Nov 21, 1998 at
the Dhaka Cantonment on the occasion of Armed Forces Day, noted poet
Nirmalendu Goon went there to hang out for some time. Later he wrote
his experience in Bangla Bazar newspaper in a series of articles. In
the first installation of his essay, Goon wrote, "All on a sudden I
got an opportunity to meet a sister of mine after a long time. Her
name is Papri. She married a solder from the Navy. His name is
Commander AFM Azim, psc. After retiring from the Navy recently, he is
now running his own business. My sister Papri whispered into my ears,
'Although my husband is a Muslim I am lucky to have a man like him.'
Commodor Azim is a fan of Bangabandhu. He hails from Munshiganj. It
was a nice experience to discuss with him." [Shenakunjey Kichukhkon
(Some Moments at the Cantonment) by Nirmalendu Goo, Bangla Bazar, Nov
24, 1998]. It is clear from the above writing as to how the Muslims
are looked down by the modern-day Hindus. Muslims are not usually
known to be nice guys! However, Mr. Azim, the Muslim Navy Officer, was
spared from such stereotyping owing to his high regard for
Bangabandhu.
During the British period, Hindus used to scold the Muslims through
their books or newspapers owned by the Hindu publishers. Writers like
Ismail Hossain Siraji used to protest those humiliating writings
through their rebuttals (refer to the introduction of his novel
Rainandini). Now on the soil of Muslim-majority Bangladesh (and
specially during the rule of Awami League), people like Nirmolendu
Goon are scoring field goals by writing communalistic essays in
Muslim-owned newspapers!
Hundred years after Bankim Chatterjee made derogatory comments about
Bengalee Muslims, Basant Chatterjee came to Bangladesh to write an
eye-witness account. Upon observation of Dhaka city he commented, "Any
newcomer will be surprised to think -- whatever happened to those
nicely-dressed bhadralok people hailing from upper class who are known
for their educated minds and respectabilities. Where are those
bhadraloks?" In fact, it wasn't a bit surprising that a modern day
disciple of Bankim could not locate a Bengalee or bhadralok in the
period of 1972-73. In his words, "During my entire 16-day stay in
Dacca, I noticed only one 'Hindu' on the street. … Oh, yes. I
remember: I saw another 'Hindu' in the Ministerial office of Mr.
Dhar." [Inside Bangladesh Today by Basant Chatterjee, p.118].
To classify Bengaleeism, he said, "The definition of Bangladeshi
nationalism as presented by Sheikh Mujib does not apply to his high
caste Hindu citizens." Basant Babu then offered his clarification --
"The 'Bengalee' of Sheikh Mujib and that of ours [Bengalees in West
Bengal] are entirely two different things. Mujib's Bengalee is a
political entity with Muslim religion. On the other hand, our Bengalee
is a cultural identity with Hindu religion." [Ibid, p.8]. In order to
classify someone as Bengalee, Basant Chatterjee maintained the same
stand as that of Bankim Chatterjee i.e. s/he must be a Hindu to be
eligible to be called a Bengalee. Bankim's definition of Bengalee can
be observed in the essays of many Hindu writers who appeared after
Bankim. Bengalee Muslims were not looked up as Bengalees in the eyes
of Saratchandra Chatterjee.
As per Basant, the Bengalee bhadralok society is composed of Brahmin
and Kayastha. Whereas some of the educated and wealthy sudras may be
identified as Bengalees, "But the crucial point is that all people
must necessairly be Aryan Hindus to be considered in the Bengalee
bhadralok class." [Ibid, p.147].
Ever since Awami League grabbed power it started to complain that
Bengalee culture remained stifled for the last 21 years. They should
clarify to the public as to what they actually mean by Bengalee
culture. From what we can deduce from the writings of West Bengal
writers is that we, the citizens of Bangladesh, are not considered
Bengalees by them.
Bankim is highly regarded by the Hindus for indulging in heinous acts
like scolding/ridiculing Muslims in the most vile language. They
attributed to him the accolade of 'Greart Emperor of Literaure'. It
becomes apparent from his writing that what he understood by Bengalee
nationalism is basically Hindu nationalism. Muslims don't have any
place in that Bengali nationalism. In 1973, the very same concept was
propounded by Basant Chatterjee in his book 'Inside Bangladesh Today'
published from New Delhi.
Bankim wrote, "Three things will catch the attention of visitors while
staying in Dacca for 2/4 days. They are cows, dogs, and Muslims. These
three are equally quarrellsome, very indomitable and invincible.
Whereas cows and dogs can be spotted in the ktichen room, Muslims can
be spotted in the court room." [Culled from Bangladesher Agrashon,
1227 (Bengali Year), p.401].
Towards the end of 1800 Bengal was still a province and the Hindus
were having their hey days. At the backdrop of this development,
"Chaitra Mela [Festival] was given the name of Hindu Mela instead of a
National Mela; And Rajnarayan Bose, a Brahmin who led a hedonistic
life in his youth, started to preach about the superiority of Hindu
religion in 1872. Attempt to establish Hindu religion and Hindu rajya
[kingdom] started to blossom." [Bankim Manosh (Thoughts of Bankim) by
Sri Arbind Poddar, p.68].
"Divide & Rule principle adopted by the [British] ruling coterie as
well as the antagonistic attitude of the Hindu community toward the
Muslims forced the Muslims to seek a separate identity for themselves.
The neo-resurgent Hindu community kept the ostracized unfit Muslims at
bay to keep themselves involved in enjoying all the benefits and
previleges from their English masters. So, not only the Hindus can be
held responsible for becoming self-sufficient while isolating the
Muslims but also for contributing much to aggravate the situation of
the Muslims." [Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujib by Dr. Mazharul Islam, p.48].
Hindu mercenary groups exploited their Muslim subjects to their last
drop of the blood. Zamindar Nirad Chandra Choudhuri admitted, "I can
throw a collateral beam on the character of our nationalism by
describing what we felt about the Muslims. When I see the gigantic
catastrophe of Hindu-Muslim discord of these days I am not surprised,
because we as children held the tiny mustard seed in our hands and
sowed it very diligently. In fact, this conflict was implicit in the
very unfolding of our history, and could hardly be avolded. … When we
were very young, that is to say when the Swadeshi movement had not
coloured our attitude to the Muslims, we presented four distinct
aspects in our attitude towards them as it was shaped by tradition. In
the first place, we felt a retrospective hostility towards the Muslims
for their one-time domination of us, the Hindus; secondly, on the
plane of thought we were utterly indifferent to the Muslims as an
element in contemporary society; thirdly, we had friendliness for the
Muslims of our own economic and social status with whom we came into
personal contact; our fourth feeling was mixed concern and contempt
for the Muslim peasant, whom we saw in the same light as we saw our
low-caste Hindu tenants, or, in other words, as our livestock." [The
Autobiography of an Unknown Indian, p.232].
Paul
"Shakil Sarwar" <shakil...@email.com> wrote in message
news:3cbaca7c...@203.15.243.3...
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:36:37 -0700, "Seeker"
> <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote:
> >> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> >
> >> > Moslems don't hate Hindus. Hindus, however, hate Moslems and feel
> >> justified
> >> > in doing so. That's the difference.
> >>
> >> All that, both instances, would depend on how one would define hate.
> >
> >Let's stick with the dictionary definition "to feel hostility or
animosity
> >toward." Most Moslems have no reason to hate Hindus. Hindus hate Moslems
> >because of the Moslem military campaign in India.
>
> Following is just a sampling of hindu hatred towards Muslims. Enjoy!
>
At the end of the day, the Islamic empire invaded them, and oppressed
them... More recently, Pakistan has ethnically cleansed itself of Hindus
and the same thing is going on in Bangladesh...
India has been remarkably tolerant IMO... Which is why there is *still* 12%
of the population that is Muslim... In the Muslim parts of the subcontinent
the population of Hindus has declined to a fraction of what it once was.
And in fact it is still dropping...
The same trend is true in every Muslim dominated state. The non-Muslims are
forced out by one means or another.... Hindus, typically get even worse
treatment than Jews or Xtians because they're polytheists....
Given that history, I'm surprised quite frankly that Hindus don't react more
strongly than they have done....
habshi
habshi
dont have the courage to blame the aggressors .
M. Ranjit Mathews
> "Prabhu Srinivas" <g_prabhu...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
> > slaughtering bulls? no man, only sick ones are slaughtered... since
> > hindus won't do it, the muslims do. bajrang dal is actually not very
> > wrong as it is indeed the duty of the govt. to stop cow slaughter simply
> > because its outlawed in most states in india. or, it could remove these
> > laws and make the shadiness public.
>
> I don't know. I think passing laws like these, gets a govt into something
> that's not it's job in the first place. In this sense, Moslems, Christians,
> Parsees etc are prevented from doing something they don't have a problem
> with.
True. Likewise, laws in the US to prevent slaughter of dogs gets a
govt. into something that's not its job and prevents Vietnamese,
Koreans and Chinese from doing something they don't have a problem
with.
Paul
"habshi" <ha...@anony.com> wrote in message
news:3cbaed7...@news.clara.net...
> Because they are governed by blind stupid secular liberals who
> dont have the courage to blame the aggressors .
A true secularist would not do that... I suspect that what you have are
appeasers. Its not the same thing...
If India were truly secular it would *not* give muslims assistance for their
haj. Nor would it support religious schools for either muslims or hindus.
This temple issue could be settled quite easily... If a strong secular govt
were in charge. IE nationalise the ground and offer it to the highest
bidder. Alternatively build a post office on the site and tell both sides
to fuck off.
My last statement is a bit rhetorical, but I'm sure you'll understand what
I'm getting at.....
Habshi
the other two ,. out of tens of thousands of mosques built on Hindu
temples . The Shias who own the mosque accepted but hardline Sunni
Muslims came in .
Seeker
>
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> news:a9dcqu$qj0$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> > "Paul" <no...@none.net> wrote in message
> news:Wdeu8.13585$51.460963@wards...
> >
> > > Also, I would submit that a follower of a religion whose founder was
an
> > > admitted paedophile, probably should drop any accusations of
perversion.
> >
> > Did you read this "fact" on this newsgroup? Get a life, liar.
> >
> >
>
> Suggest you go to any *civilised* country and shag a girl the same age
Aisha
> was at the time Mohammed took her..
Suppose you look into your own ancestry. You will find plenty of child
brides going back only two hundred years. This applies either you are a
Hindu or a Eurotrash.
>
> Let us know how you get on with the police. Also we'll see what the press
> refer to you as...
Are you sure you are capable of seeing anything.
Seeker
news:1d4c67e3.02041...@posting.google.com...
Good example, but no cigar. There is no element of one group imposing its
religion on others. Why does India not impose laws prohibiting chickens and
goats from getting slaughtered. Why just cow? The fact is India's state
religion is Hinduism, and as a theocracy it enforces this dogma on those who
are not part of it.
Paul
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> "Paul" <no...@none.net> wrote in message
news:kIwu8.15979$OP.581678@stones...
> >
> > "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > news:a9dcqu$qj0$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> > > "Paul" <no...@none.net> wrote in message
> > news:Wdeu8.13585$51.460963@wards...
> > >
> > > > Also, I would submit that a follower of a religion whose founder was
> an
> > > > admitted paedophile, probably should drop any accusations of
> perversion.
> > >
> > > Did you read this "fact" on this newsgroup? Get a life, liar.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Suggest you go to any *civilised* country and shag a girl the same age
> Aisha
> > was at the time Mohammed took her..
>
> Suppose you look into your own ancestry. You will find plenty of child
> brides going back only two hundred years. This applies either you are a
> Hindu or a Eurotrash.
LOL Nice try...
>
> >
> > Let us know how you get on with the police. Also we'll see what the
press
> > refer to you as...
>
> Are you sure you are capable of seeing anything.
Are you sure you are capable of thinking? Sorry, Muslim<>Think.....
>
>
Seeker
>
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > > Suggest you go to any *civilised* country and shag a girl the same age
> > Aisha
> > > was at the time Mohammed took her..
> >
> > Suppose you look into your own ancestry. You will find plenty of child
> > brides going back only two hundred years. This applies either you are a
> > Hindu or a Eurotrash.
>
> LOL Nice try...
Paul T., I wasn't trying anything. I am not sure if you have ever researched
your genealogy, but the notion of marrying at 18 years of age is a pretty
recent concept. In Victorian England it was pretty much the norm to have a
30+ year old man marry a 12 year old girl. Rest of world was no exception
either. In some Hindu books I have read that it was advised that a man marry
a "women" one third his age. No disrespect to Hinduism, I am only quoting
historical facts.
> > > Let us know how you get on with the police. Also we'll see what the
> press
> > > refer to you as...
> >
> > Are you sure you are capable of seeing anything.
>
> Are you sure you are capable of thinking?
I think so.
> Sorry, Muslim<>Think.....
What does jalpiaza mean?
Mike Lamb
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
>
> Paul T., I wasn't trying anything. I am not sure if you have ever
researched
> your genealogy, but the notion of marrying at 18 years of age is a pretty
> recent concept. In Victorian England it was pretty much the norm to have a
> 30+ year old man marry a 12 year old girl. Rest of world was no exception
> either. In some Hindu books I have read that it was advised that a man
marry
> a "women" one third his age. No disrespect to Hinduism, I am only quoting
> historical facts.
Paul, unfortuantly he is right.
I wrote a lot on this subject a year or so ago concerning another subject.
In the united states for example, it was not uncommon for 12 year old girls
to marry 100 years ago. (If a girl wasn't married by the age of 18, she was
considered an old maid. I'm sure you've heard that; haven't you?)
And actually, even as late as the 1970's a few states
even allowed 13 year olds to marry. And there are examples of 10 year old
girls marrying. Do the research and you will see for yourself.
As much as I despise islam, this thing about mo-ham, er mohommand
marrying a 9 or 10 year girl is a NON-ISSUE! There are better things to
attack islam over.
Cheers,
Mike lamb
Paul
was by nature "deviant", "perverted" by a Muslims standard...
I stand by the original statement in that Mohammed would indeed be
considered a paedophile in any *civilised* part of the world today... I
would not necessarily include some of the "deliverance" areas of the US in
that grouping....
If someone wishes to assert perversion on the part of Hindus based on their
religious conditioning, I can see no reason why I shouldn't do so to
Mohammedans based on my social conditioning... That is the point...
IE Muslims have no moral standing to assert that Hindus are perverts.
Mike Lamb
"Paul" <no...@none.net> wrote in message news:GTTu8.13762$51.468968@wards...
> What I actually disputed was the original posters allegation that Hinduism
> was by nature "deviant", "perverted" by a Muslims standard...
>
> I stand by the original statement in that Mohammed would indeed be
> considered a paedophile in any *civilised* part of the world today... I
> would not necessarily include some of the "deliverance" areas of the US in
> that grouping....
>
> If someone wishes to assert perversion on the part of Hindus based on
their
> religious conditioning, I can see no reason why I shouldn't do so to
> Mohammedans based on my social conditioning... That is the point...
>
> IE Muslims have no moral standing to assert that Hindus are perverts.
Well you have your point! :-)
Come to think of it, muslims shouldn't be criticizing the hindus on this
issue since they really aren't any different or better, and since the
*muslims* are also considering this point from the *civilized* world
today.
I would submit however, that just because *we* think the world is
more civilized today, that doesn't necessarily make it true in all
regards. I tend to think the world is less civilized today, but we
are led to believe differently because of the *feel good* mentality
that comes with thinking we are bettering ourselves over our ancestors.
Couple of tidbits:
Our governments used to not interfer with marriages. Anyone
could marry as they pleased, age not counting.
However it was with Catholicism that marraige records were first
kept from a government standpoint, as one had to attain and
sign a form proving both partners to be Catholic and eligible.
These forms/records were then held by the Catholic Church,
which at that time was the governoring power in Italy. Around 850AD.
This was eventually instituted in all Catholic dominated countries
over time. The twist being that governments saw the benefit in
controlling such records for all people, not just Catholics. Over time
governments took over this repsonsibility as a means for recording
and keeping records of its' citizens for various purposes and taxes.
Cheers,
Mike Lamb
M. Krishna
> Samata Ullah <sama...@digitalscream.net> wrote:
>
> > [some confusion deleted]
>
> Manu Smriti is not "scripture" but an ancient law book. Also it is no
> rocket science to deduce from its name that it is Smriti, not Shruti.
Manu Smriti is emphatically no "law book." It is a Dharma Shastra, and
thus fit to be called a scripture. There does exist some confusion
regarding its interpretation, but certainly this is not that.
Regards,
M. Krishna
>
> -Anil Trivedi
Biswajit Maharana
"M. Krishna" <m_kri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:14c0b8c5.0204...@posting.google.com...
Dharma Sahstra means 'Law Study'. Thus by saying Manu Smriti is a Dharma
Shastra, you agree that Manu Smriti is ancient book on 'Law Study'.
BM
Seeker
>
> Well you have your point! :-)
No, Paul Ticer is an ass. The only point he knows is the tip of his tail.
>
> Come to think of it, muslims shouldn't be criticizing the hindus on this
> issue since they really aren't any different or better, and since the
> *muslims* are also considering this point from the *civilized* world
> today.
True. Hinduism has several very "enlightening" concepts.
>
> I would submit however, that just because *we* think the world is
> more civilized today, that doesn't necessarily make it true in all
> regards. I tend to think the world is less civilized today, but we
> are led to believe differently because of the *feel good* mentality
> that comes with thinking we are bettering ourselves over our ancestors.
True again.
M. Ranjit Mathews
> "M. Ranjit Mathews" <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> > > I don't know. I think passing laws like these, gets a govt into
> > > something that's not it's job in the first place. In this sense,
> > > Moslems, Christians, Parsees etc are prevented from doing something
> > > they don't have a problem with.
> >
> > True. Likewise, laws in the US to prevent slaughter of dogs gets a
> > govt. into something that's not its job and prevents Vietnamese,
> > Koreans and Chinese from doing something they don't have a problem
> > with.
>
> Good example, but no cigar. There is no element of one group imposing its
> religion on others. Why does India not impose laws prohibiting chickens and
> goats from getting slaughtered. Why just cow?
What are you talking about? The Republic of India has never had laws
on the permissibility of chicken, goat OR cow slaughter.
As for why some states banned the slaughter of cows, the reason is
bias in favor of the cow on the part of a sufficiently large number of
people in those states, of course, just like the ban on dog slaughter
(but not cow slaughter) in Los Angeles was a result of bias in favor
of the dog on the part of a sufficiently large number of people.
> The fact is India's state religion is Hinduism,
Not quite yet, although it's conceivable that if psecularists continue
their valiant efforts to make Hindutvadis more popular, it might
become so, although it is also conversely possible that Hindutvadis'
skill at making themselves unpopular will exceed psecularists' skill
at making them popular. What laws does the Republic of India have that
make Hinduism the state religion?
> and as a theocracy it enforces this dogma on those who
> are not part of it.
If anything, by India's laws and/or courts' typical reading of them,
Hindus are dhimmis in India.
Habshi
On 16 Apr 2002 20:33:37 -0700, ranjit_...@yahoo.com (M. Ranjit
Habshi
<pos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics does not accept the theological
> definition of Hinduism: "Hinduism has never prepared a body of canonical
> scriptures or a common prayer book; it has never held a general council or
> convocation; never defined the relation between laity and clergy; never
> regulated the canonization of saints or their worship; never established a
> single center of religious life; never prescribed a course of training for
> its priests." -- [ERE. 6:712]
What bull shit! Body of common prayers is in the Vedas. The brahmin
priests were the people who were supposed to memorize the actual
rituals and
scriptures. Hindu laity performed the most complex prayers at HOME!
The
Himalayas and Ganges is the center of religious life. Gurukul was the
course for training for all Hindus. STOP LYING IDIOT!
Seeker
>
> "habshi" <ha...@anony.com> wrote in message
> news:3cbaed7...@news.clara.net...
> > Because they are governed by blind stupid secular liberals who
> > dont have the courage to blame the aggressors .
>
> I'm getting at.....
Bhenchod Harami Hindu, what makes you think anyone wants to understand your
nonsense. What is your connection with Jalpiaza?
Paul
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
opinion....
I have no idea what your statement even means...
I have been now accused of being Hindu, Jewish, Gay, Christian Fundie and
Atheist...
The last bit is true.. I am an atheist... So what... I was merely
commenting on the proper way for a state to deal with the likes of *you*..
IE a muslim paedophile following fanatic idiot that wishes to go on Jihad
over stupid things...
People like yourself, should simply be put down... Better for the planet...
As for people who wish to worship whatever, I don't care...
IE if a Hindu wishes to worship rats as most of you Muslims like to dwell on
and ridicule, I couldn't care less. One thing in their favour is that at
least they can prove that rats exist... That is a major improvement over
what you do....
End of comment....
M. Krishna
[...]
> Dharma Sahstra means 'Law Study'.
Hardly. Dharma doesn't come even close to mean Law. And
Shastra is a teaching for the student who is eligible for
certain gain from a study (Dharma in this case).
Regards,
M. Krishna
Biswajit Maharana
What is law and what is dharma? What is study and what is teaching?
Manusmriti is what it is. Call it ancient law book or scripture on dharma.
Pick your choice.
BM
Habshi
Seeker
I was going to point out this as well. Even I know what Dharma Shastra mean,
and I am not a Hindu.
Denis Wright
> Then I suggest that you also look up the dictionary's
> meanings of hostiliy and animostiy.
Neither of the above is in the dictionary. And that's a fact.
D. ;)
Shivkumar Singh
> sama...@digitalscream.net (Samata Ullah) wrote in message news:<3681d63c.0204...@posting.google.com>...
Well said Subir - You have put the facts on proper perspective.
M. Krishna
[...]
> > Hardly. Dharma doesn't come even close to mean Law. And
> > Shastra is a teaching for the student who is eligible for
> > certain gain from a study (Dharma in this case).
>
> What is law and what is dharma?
Law is a semitic concept to protect a faith (Taliban, Inquisition,
blasphemy laws) from being destroyed by heretics or rationals.
In the modern athiestic world, it is there to protect a state's interests.
It needs *enforcement*. It has its root in Ten Commandments.
Dharma is what an individual takes up for his own benefit in here and/or
hereafter. It cannot and should not be enforced. Modern State has nothing to
do with it.
Regards,
M. Krishna
> What is study and what is teaching?
Hunt
ha ha ha.
Mr Samata you can keep bitching about the castism of Himdusim.. because you
dont have any other thing to say.. and we all know that..
And you say Krishna was a deamon.., now instead of being angry.. I am
laughing at you.. really.. its a pity .. to see .. till what level you
people have degraded and I hope and pray that you people will keep degrading
untils every one else will unite to erase Islam.
To be very Frank Mr Samata.. either Islam will eradicate every other
religion .. or Every other religion will erase Islam from earth.. and I pray
that, that day come soon.. !!!
I am, what THOU art.
"Samata Ullah" <sama...@digitalscream.net> wrote in message
news:3681d63c.02041...@posting.google.com...
> ranjit_...@yahoo.com (M. Ranjit Mathews) wrote in message
news:<1d4c67e3.02041...@posting.google.com>...
> > sama...@digitalscream.net (Samata Ullah) wrote ...
> > > Please read all of the shocking things on all the links. You will see
> > > that Hindu-scriptural based casteism is the most virurently anti-Human
> > > ideology the world has even seen.
> >
> > Yet, only Islamic states have opposed the Universal Declaration of
> > Human Rights.
>
> Yet we see that casteism was not put up by the Indian government in
> the UN conference on racism.
>
> >
> > > See here for the Hindu scriptural justification:
> >
> > Numerous quotes from the Manusmriti, apparently. Whose scripture is
> > the Manusmriti?
>
> What Ranjit Mathews is attempting here is a subtle attempt to show
> that this book and Hinduism have nothing in common. Regardless, the
> Manu Smriti is a book which claims to have been divinely revealed to
> God's son, Manu. So not only is it Smriti (law), but Shruti (divinely
> revealed) as well. As such, it was implemented by the munerous Hindu
> societies throughout the ages, untill British Indian times when
> Westernised Hindus could not stand the abhorent teachings of this
> ancient Mein Kampf so they declared it null and void for this Yuga
> (age), but that was not the case with any unashamed Hindu from ancient
> times to british India times. As this is also viewed as a codification
> of Vedic laws, it was used as the laws of state, hence the
> perpetuation of casteism from ancient times to modern, this book's
> teachings survive in Hindu cultural practises. The modern view is
> simply apologia not supported by the Manu smriti nor any other
> scripture.
>
> >
> > > http://hindudharma.t35.com/discrimination.htm
> > > http://hindudharma.t35.com/casteism.htm
> > > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/discrimination.htm
> > > http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/casteism.htm
> > > http://infidels.org/library/modern/ramendra_nath/hindu.html
> > > http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/
> > >
> > > "When we are working, they ask us not to come near them. At tea
> > > canteens, they have separate tea tumblers and they make us clean them
> > > ourselves and make us put the dishes away ourselves. We cannot enter
> > > temples. We cannot use upper-caste water taps. We have to go one
> > > kilometer away to get water... When we ask for our rights from the
> > > government, the municipality officials threaten to fire us. So we
> > > don't say anything. This is what happens to people who demand their
> > > rights."
> > >
> > > "Thevars [caste Hindus] treat Sikkaliars [Dalits] as slaves so they
> > > can utilize them as they wish. They exploit them sexually and make
> > > them dig graveyards for high-caste people's burials. They have to take
> > > the death message to Thevars. These are all unpaid services."
> >
> > What can be done* to contain "Sudra" Thevars who treat Dalits as lower
> > class to such a degree?
> > * given that "Sudras" have the most votes
>
> But again Ranjit Mathews attempts to cloud over the simple fact of
> caste violence, attempting to show that in this particular case it was
> low-caste on outcaste that it somehow exonerrates casteism or
> something. Though there are more reports on all kinds of casteism,
> especially high on low or non-caste, we see mathews attempting
> obfuscate this.
>
> >
> > > Of course, even the "holy" Bhagavad Gita was responsible for cementing
> > > casteism, as these shall show. The demon Krishna was also a casteist
> > > who tried to be good but could not go that bit further and do the
> > > right thing and abandon casteism, he was trapped by cultural norms. He
> > > was not a "god":
> > >
> > >
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Articles/General/geeta.html
> > >
> > > Here is a quote from Encyclopedia Britannica:
> > >
> > > "Yet, by emphasizing that all humans have not only different
> > > propensities for each of the three disciplines of release but also
> > > different responsibilities arising out of their births in different
> > > castes, the Bhagavadgita also provided a powerful justification for
> > > the caste system."
> >
> > Very good, but did it provide a powerful justification for casteism
> > too?
>
> Yes, as naturally casteism follows from caste system. Krishna cemented
> this as he stated that it is a sin to leave ones caste and occupation,
> he therefore condoned earlier behaviour (and later) which is recorded
> have cemented casteism.
>
> http://www.harekrsna.com/science/hearing/manu/manu.htm
>
>
> http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam/
> http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/
Seeker
news:1fau1m9.cj...@5200modem-24.une.edu.au...
Hahahahahahaha. Good one. I suggest that Mike Lamb (or whatever his real
name is) better start using a dictionary before throwing it in other's face.
LOL
SubirK
> Well said Subir - You have put the facts on proper perspective.
I try my best, Mr.Singh.
Thank you.
Subir.
Seeker
news:b7f70c13.02041...@posting.google.com...
Another Haramioid Blow job in progress.
Mike Lamb
I can't make you understand anything, nor would I if I could.
It is so that every person has a reason to be in this life;
Some good, some bad. If that is all you're capable of
understanding, go my friend, I won't argue with you.
Michael Lamb
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
news:a9np9l$i5q$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Seeker
you'd suggested that it was something cannot be defined. We have
dictionaries to resolve such bets.
"Mike Lamb" <Mike...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:a9o5da$f0s$1...@iac5.navix.net...
Shivkumar Singh
Truth appears as Blow jobs to those whose minds have unfortunately
been contaminated by mohummadean filth.
I sympathise with you.
Shiv
Shiv represents Voice of Liberty against Islamic Terror a non profit
organisation that seeks to expose totalitarian ideologies like Islam
that afflict and enslave mankind.
koolfire_ro
then in that case we can use your puckered 1/4 inch mouth, as a
template, for checking thoti chura 123 and madherchod pimp gulshan
khans dick size...which you keep constantly sucking.
Seeker
news:292f4994.02041...@posting.google.com...
> "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
news:<a9o3oe$iup$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...
> > "SubirK" <subi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:b7f70c13.02041...@posting.google.com...
> > > kshat...@onebox.com (Shivkumar Singh) wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Well said Subir - You have put the facts on proper perspective.
> > >
> > > I try my best, Mr.Singh.
> > > Thank you.
> > > Subir.
> >
> > Another Haramioid Blow job in progress.
>
> Truth appears as Blow jobs to those whose minds have unfortunately
> been contaminated by mohummadean filth.
Not true. Hinduism sanctions blow jobs. There are saruthis written about it.
This is why Hindu women give good head.
>
> I sympathise with you.
Then send me some of your good looking Hindu women.
Seeker
news:d53283dc.02041...@posting.google.com...
Hahaha ... but you have been sucking my dick.
Sauron
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
Muslims pick up lost children on the streets and molests them. It is
written in thier Koran. That is why Moslem women always feel ashamed when
with a man.
>
> >
> > I sympathise with you.
>
> Then send me some of your good looking Hindu women.
First you take back your mother and sister the Hindu's don't want them
anymore
>
>
Sauron
"Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
Solicitating for sex is not going to help you.
>
>
Chacha Chaudri
Watching Al-Jazeera again ????
What else would you expect from fundi-muslims....Just a lot of
licky-sucky each other....
Chacha Chaudri
> "Sauron" <Sau...@Prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:MOru8.3551$Mc2.167...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Seeker" <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote in message
> > > "Habshi" <hab...@anony.com> wrote in message
> > > news:pb4kbu8plbr9bf6i8...@4ax.com...
> > > > On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:19:20 -0700, "Seeker"
> > > > <4not_listed_due_to_spam_bots_121101> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Firstly, this Geeta hides the fact that Arjuna was a homosexual and a
> > > > cross-dresser who did not show any feelings towards women. <
> > > >
> > > > !!! What nonsense . Arjuna dressed as a woman and became
> > > > employed as a dancer at a King's court because he was supposed to hide
> > > > his identity according to the term of the 14 year exile . He fell in
> > > > love with the King's daughter and she married him later . He had sons
> > > > , one of them was killed in the Mahabharta battle .
> > > >
> > >
> > > You prove my point of Geeta being chastized.
> > >
> > > Kamala Subramaniam, in Mahabharata, p. 260-261 describes how Arjuna
> became
> > > one of gay while hiding during his last year of exile, according to the
> > > Krisna's plan. There, dressed as a woman, he wore his hair in braids,
> > > behaved in a feminine manner, and taught dancing and singing to young
> girls
> > > with no attraction for them.
> >
> > Yah and Mohammed slept with a 8 year old kid.
>
> He did not. Besides I quoted a reference.
OK, 9 year old kid ....that make you happy, you faggot ???
We all know kids mature early in arabian cultures because they get
sodomized and abused from 3....just like all pakistanis