Attention Mr. Jamil Rahaman
sh...@unicomp.net
I am fed up with these Rizvis and Naqvis.
Help me please JR. This guy Naqvi thinks that I am posting under your
name. Where did he get that from? Only god knows.
Watch out he is loony.
Jamil Rahman
Hassan Haider Naqvi a few months back made a big deal accusing me of
posting anti-Muhajir slurs and racist postings. Despite my repeated
denials, he refused to let facts get in the way of his lunatic need
to blame someone....Anyway, the best you can hope for is to post a
rebuttal and flatly deny his allegations, and not get into an argument
on this subject. He will then go away.
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5itsal$7...@cnn.exu.ericsson.se> ex...@exu.ericsson.se (Jamil
This HHN person is a fruit cake of the highest order. I hate to admit
but in the upstairs dept. any paindoo have him beat.
This moron loves to repost articles of others with the addendum stating
only the origins, as to why anyone should care where the article came
from is known only to this imbecile.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Nusrat Rizvi
December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man that
ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
historical date.
I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Ameer Hassan
Ghalib was a piece of shit in his life. All his life he lived on
welfare, wealth stolen from the poor and downtrodden and doled out
to likes of Ghalib. The best way to organize this `occasion' would
be to have a `mujra' of `lakh or more' `navi prostitutes' who are
`well educated' in their carnal behavior.
P.S. All the supposed `non-supporters' of NR were warned about this
out come.
Hassan Naqvi
ex...@exu.ericsson.se (Jamil Rahman) wrote:
>............ He will then go away.
>
You wish......!!!
--
Hassan Haider Naqvi
Hassan Naqvi
-------------------------------
Subject: Re: the HHN idiot
Date: 15 Apr 1997 14:40:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Message-ID: <5j0407$9...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
***
Dallas-FortWorth,TX
gailani
On 16 Apr 1997 00:25:59 GMT, Hassan Naqvi
<H-...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
=>
>=>This HHN person is a fruit cake of the highest order. I hate to admit
>=>but in the upstairs dept. any paindoo have him beat.
>=>This moron loves to repost articles of others with the addendum stating
>=>only the origins, as to why anyone should care where the article came
>=>from is known only to this imbecile.
>=>Nusrat Rizvi
>=>Rowayton, Conn
>=>
>=Header for above post:
>=-------------------------------
>=Subject: Re: the HHN idiot
>=Date: 15 Apr 1997 14:40:07 GMT
>=Organization: Netcom
>=Message-ID: <5j0407$9...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
>= ***
>= Dallas-FortWorth,TX
>=
This is funny,
gailani
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man that
> ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
> historical date.
> I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
> preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
> occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
> Nusrat Rizvi
> Rowayton, Conn
You sir are a great fan of the harami hindus to the extent that I
thought that you are one of them till ameer bhai corrected me
my brother visited india from uk he saw Ghalib house the house he used
to live he was very upset at the condition in which this house was kept
it was in a bad shape these hindus did not do any thing to perserve a
place of a great poet.Had galib be in Pakistan let me assure you sir the
people you call paindoos would have taken care of that
I hope you would raise your voice on this issue
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Digger
--
Pervert....Chup Kar...Read this :
UPn 04/09 0648 Pakistan has lowest human indicators
Copyright 1997 United Press International. The following news report may
not be republished or redistributed, in whole or in part, without the
prior
written consent of United Press International.
ISLAMABAD, Apr. 9 (UPI) -- A new report says Pakistan's human
development indicators are among the lowest in South Asia
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5j16an$d...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> Hassan Naqvi
<H-...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>>In <5itsal$7...@cnn.exu.ericsson.se> ex...@exu.ericsson.se (Jamil
>>Rahman) writes:
>>>
>>>In article 4321...@news.dfwmm.net, sh...@unicomp.net writes:
>>>>I am fed up with these Rizvis and Naqvis.
>>>>Help me please JR. This guy Naqvi thinks that I am posting under
your name. Where did he get that from? Only god knows.
>>>>Watch out he is loony.
>>>
>>>Hassan Haider Naqvi a few months back made a big deal accusing me of
>>>posting anti-Muhajir slurs and racist postings. Despite my repeated
>>>denials, he refused to let facts get in the way of his lunatic need
>>>to blame someone....Anyway, the best you can hope for is to post a
>>>rebuttal and flatly deny his allegations, and not get into an
argument on this subject. He will then go away.
>>
article came from is known only to this imbecile.
>>Nusrat Rizvi
>>Rowayton, Conn
>>
>Header for above post:
>-------------------------------
>Subject: Re: the HHN idiot
1997 14:40:07 GMT
>Message-ID: <5j0407$9...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
> ***
> Dallas-FortWorth,TX
>
article as he was expected to.
Too many beatings to the head during moharram.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
pgg...@computer.net
It was Srinivasa Ramanujam one of the greatest mathematicians of the 20th
century and now it is Ghalib, who would have won the Nobel hands down if
he were writing in the 20th: one can unerringly look for greatness based
on the dislikes and hatreds of some people.
Peace, Gopal
Ameer Hassan wrote:
>
> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man that
> > ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
> > historical date.
> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
> > preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
> > occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
> > Nusrat Rizvi
> > Rowayton, Conn
> >
> >
>
Zafaryab Khan
I am very impressed by Ramanujan(or what I got from browing through "Man
who knew infinity"). Why is he a part of this discussion?
Mirza Ghalib on the other hand would have been an out of work
"intellectual"
if he were alive today. He is not the nobel prize winning kind of person.
For one thing he did not have the "drive"(unlike Ramanujan who was
brilliant AND hardworking). I am also not too inspired by his poetry. He
has a few new "twists" in his work, but its focus is very narrow.
I read his "letters" and out comes a picture of a self indulgent
dissipator.
He is arguably intellectual and seems to have a following. He is not "one
of a
kind" by any means(imho). I prefer the works of Iqbal as its inspiring(I
think
Indian national anthem is based on it). Please don't bother to repost
Iqbal's murder of a prostitute story if you write a rebuttal. Its not
an issue right now(and in any case I am not interested).
Nusrat Rizvi
>Ameer Hassan wrote:
>>
>> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>>
>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man
that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>> > historical date. I invite all people of taste and culture (this
should automatically preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to
>> >organise the occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>> >
>>
>> Ghalib was a piece of shit in his life. All his life he lived on
>> welfare, wealth stolen from the poor and downtrodden and doled out
>> to likes of Ghalib. The best way to organize this `occasion' would
>> be to have a `mujra' of `lakh or more' `navi prostitutes' who are
>> `well educated' in their carnal behavior.
My dear Ameer,
No whore can hold a candle to the expertise ability and accomplishments
of your mother in matters of carnal desire and behavior. Indeed if your
mummy were to be the lead dancer and performer no one can ever easily
forget a sencious evening like this anytime soon.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
cSingh
Ameer Hassan wrote:
>
> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man that
> > ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
> > historical date.
> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
> > preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
> > occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
> > Nusrat Rizvi
> >
> >
>
> Ghalib was a piece of shit in his life. All his life he lived on
> welfare, wealth stolen from the poor and downtrodden and doled out
> to likes of Ghalib. The best way to organize this `occasion' would
> be to have a `mujra' of `lakh or more' `navi prostitutes' who are
> `well educated' in their carnal behavior.
>
> out come.
One of the gretest poets to live in the Indian subc., his
memory must be preserved like a national treasure.
To all lovers of ghalib or those wanting to know about his life,
should see the "Ghalib" TV serial by gulzar.
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5j88iq$ht6$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu
(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>
>>>>> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>>>>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest
man that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate
this historical date.
>>>>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should
>>automatically preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to
>>organise the occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>>>>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>>>I am very impressed by Ramanujan(or what I got from browing through
>>"Man who knew infinity"). Why is he a part of this discussion?
>>>Mirza Ghalib on the other hand would have been an out of work
>>>"intellectual" if he were alive today. He is not the nobel prize
>>winning kind of person.
>>>For one thing he did not have the "drive"(unlike Ramanujan who was
>>>brilliant AND hardworking). I am also not too inspired by his
poetry.He has a few new "twists" in his work, but its focus is very
narrow.I read his "letters" and out comes a picture of a self indulgent
>>>dissipator. He is arguably intellectual and seems to have a
following. He is not "one of a kind" by any means(imho). I prefer the
works of Iqbal as its inspiring(I think Indian national anthem is based
on it).
The Indian National anthem, Jana Ghana Man was written by Taigore,
proving once again that most of the info in your head is half baked
idiotic nonsense.
Ghalib lived an examplery life which devotees of Iqbal can never
comprehend. The worst they can say about him was that he drank and
on occasion gambled.
>>Please don't bother to repost
>>>Iqbal's murder of a prostitute story if you write a rebuttal. Its
not an issue right now(and in any case I am not interested).
Yes ofcourse, how can your Gods have clay feet.!!!!
>>In order to understand and appreciate Ghalib one has to know and
>>understand Urdu. I have never met a Punjabi who had complete command
>>of our language. Therefore your critique above of the great man is
>
>I know. Its impossible for a punjabi to have complete command of "our
>language". The "our language" or the lucknavi urdu is too baroque
>for others(euphemism inefficient). Punjabis do just fine with plain
>vanilla urdu. This urdu is spoken and understood by the majority of
Indians and Pakistanis. Language is just a medium of communication and
the benchmark of its success is the number of people that use it. So,
using such a measure, "Punjabi urdu" is more successful. As a case in
point the national anthems of both India and Pakistan is penned by
punjabis(Iqbal and Hafeez Jalundri).
Let me try a different approach, how many people in London or New York
will understand Shakespeare, How many Germans can understand or relate
to Goethe. Conversely what Mirza Ghalib wrote is not for all but only
those who understand his era and environment.
>Above is not meant to show the "superiority" of Punjabis(which is
>not true since all people are equal in the eyes of Allah), but
>to show that one flavor of language is not any better than
another(they all have their merits).
Having heard enough Punjabi to last me a life time, I will most
violently react to your assertions.
>>quite understandable, just as your devotion to Iqbal. While Ghalib
>>preached love brotherhood, understanding and appreciation of finer
>>things in life, Iqbal saw only Islam and everything through Islamic
>>prism.
>
>I have to disagree. Ghalib focuses on "appreciation of finer things"
and not much else(I said as much in my original post). Iqbal does not
see everything through Islamic prism(or else his work would not have
been chosen as the national anthem of India(a "secular" country)).
There you go again with your ignorant idiotic remarks defending Iqbal
when you have been shown it is not true.
It is a statement of ignorence to say that Mirza Sahib wrote nothing
else but finer things in life.
One of the reason of his immense popularity with Urdu speakers was
his ability to write of common sufferings, something they could all
relate to in a language they could understand.
>>It is not surprising that while Ghalib's mastery of urdu and his
>>creation of new Ideas based on old Indo-Persian parables would be
>>beyond comprehension of most Punjabis, who would rather prefer a
>>simpleton like Iqbal.
>
>I don't think Iqbal was quite such a simpleton. Anyway simplicity is
>preferable to complexity(since life is complex enough as it is).
>A person who could write "Shikwah"(in such simple terms) is truly a
>genius.
>
>>If those we hold sacred have no meaning to you, its just as well we
>
>That's funny. Ghalib's poetry is sacred?
>
To me and others like me, yes.
>>start thinking in terms of two different cultures and languages and
>>societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we free
>>ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the Paindoos
>>now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis before.
>
>:) So there is a "political agenda" behind Ghalib worship. Even though
>there are many (erstwhile) muhajirs and Punjabis who like Ghalib,
>they certainly wont support your conclusion above. I am afraid you
>are very lonely(in your stance).
This is in your genes and you can not help yourself but here you speak
like a true dumb Punjabi. For example who gave you authority to speak
on behalf of other people. And as long as we are on the subject, do you
speak for everyone on scp or is your opinion limited to others of your
ilk, namely Punjabis. I can not imagine any UP wala letting you speak
for them, can you?
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
cSingh
Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> In <3357B9...@cc.com> cSingh <c...@cc.com> writes:
>
>
> >He may have lived on welfare, but he was not piece of shit.
> >One of the gretest poets to live in the Indian subc., his
> >memory must be preserved like a national treasure.
> > To all lovers of ghalib or those wanting to know about his life,
> >should see the "Ghalib" TV serial by gulzar.
>
> I am not familier with any documentry on Ghalib by Gulzar. I have seen
> other dramas dealing with his life, some were good and others very bad.
> Do you know where I can find this particular one by Gulzar in NYC.
> Nusrat Rizvi
> Rowayton, Conn
This is not a documentary but a TV serial. I think the director
is Gulzar. Naseeruddin Shah plays the role of Ghalib. It a is very well
made serial.
It portrays the life of Ghalib. The backdrop is the historic
happennings of 1857, mutiny, the fall of Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last
moghul, and the eventual takeover of the British of Delhi.
It is a must see for those interested in Ghalib and the history
of that time.
Any good Indian video library should have this. I think
the name is "Mirza Ghalib". I realy enjoyed it.
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5j6nfc$a4k$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu
(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>>> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>>>
>>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man
that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>>> > historical date.
>>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should
automatically preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to
organise the occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>>>
>>> Ghalib was a piece of shit in his life. All his life he lived on
>>> welfare, wealth stolen from the poor and downtrodden and doled out
>>> to likes of Ghalib. The best way to organize this `occasion' would
>>> be to have a `mujra' of `lakh or more' `navi prostitutes' who are
>>> `well educated' in their carnal behavior.
>>>
>>> P.S. All the supposed `non-supporters' of NR were warned about this
>>> out come.
>>
>
>I am very impressed by Ramanujan(or what I got from browing through
"Man who knew infinity"). Why is he a part of this discussion?
>Mirza Ghalib on the other hand would have been an out of work
>"intellectual" if he were alive today. He is not the nobel prize
winning kind of person.
>For one thing he did not have the "drive"(unlike Ramanujan who was
>brilliant AND hardworking). I am also not too inspired by his poetry.
He has a few new "twists" in his work, but its focus is very narrow.
>I read his "letters" and out comes a picture of a self indulgent
>dissipator. He is arguably intellectual and seems to have a following.
He is not "one of a kind" by any means(imho). I prefer the works of
Iqbal as its inspiring(I think Indian national anthem is based on it).
Please don't bother to repost
>Iqbal's murder of a prostitute story if you write a rebuttal. Its not
>an issue right now(and in any case I am not interested).
In order to understand and appreciate Ghalib one has to know and
understand Urdu. I have never met a Punjabi who had complete command
of our language. Therefore your critique above of the great man is
quite understandable, just as your devotion to Iqbal. While Ghalib
preached love brotherhood, understanding and appreciation of finer
things in life, Iqbal saw only Islam and everything through Islamic
prism.
It is not surprising that while Ghalib's mastery of urdu and his
creation of new Ideas based on old Indo-Persian parables would be
beyond comprehension of most Punjabis, who would rather prefer a
simpleton like Iqbal.
If those we hold sacred have no meaning to you, its just as well we
start thinking in terms of two different cultures and languages and
societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we free
ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the Paindoos
now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis before.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Nusrat Rizvi
>PERVAIZ RIZVI wrote:
>>
>> Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>> >
>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man that
>> > ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>> > historical date.
>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
>> > preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
>> > occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>> You sir are a great fan of the harami hindus to the extent that I
>> thought that you are one of them till ameer bhai corrected me
>> my brother visited india from uk he saw Ghalib house the house he used
>> to live he was very upset at the condition in which this house was kept
>> it was in a bad shape these hindus did not do any thing to perserve a
>> place of a great poet.Had galib be in Pakistan let me assure you sir the
>> people you call paindoos would have taken care of that
>> I hope you would raise your voice on this issue
>> PERVAIZ RIZVI
The GOI can with some justifiaction say, that Ghalib was a poet of
Urdu language of which they have thousands. If Govt. of Pakistan where
Urdu is the only official language, wants to bestow some special
honours on this great literary figure of their language no body is
stopping them from doing so. We know this will never come to pass as
the ruling thugs would rather spend our money on buying planes and
tanks than fix Mirza sahibs mausleum.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Zafaryab Khan
In article <5j80ec$5...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <5j6nfc$a4k$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu
>(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>
>>>> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man
>that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>>>> > historical date.
>>>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should
>automatically preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to
>organise the occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>>>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>
>>>>
I know. Its impossible for a punjabi to have complete command of "our
language". The "our language" or the lucknavi urdu is too baroque
for others(euphemism inefficient). Punjabis do just fine with plain
vanilla
urdu. This urdu is spoken and understood by the majority of Indians
and Pakistanis. Language is just a medium of communication and the
benchmark
of its success is the number of people that use it. So, using such a
measure, "Punjabi urdu" is more successful. As a case in point the
national anthems of both India and Pakistan is penned by punjabis(Iqbal
and Hafeez Jalundri).
Above is not meant to show the "superiority" of Punjabis(which is
not true since all people are equal in the eyes of Allah), but
to show that one flavor of language is not any better than another(they
all have their merits).
>quite understandable, just as your devotion to Iqbal. While Ghalib
>preached love brotherhood, understanding and appreciation of finer
>things in life, Iqbal saw only Islam and everything through Islamic
>prism.
I have to disagree. Ghalib focuses on "appreciation of finer things" and
not much else(I said as much in my original post). Iqbal does not see
everything
through Islamic prism(or else his work would not have been chosen as
the national anthem of India(a "secular" country)).
>It is not surprising that while Ghalib's mastery of urdu and his
>creation of new Ideas based on old Indo-Persian parables would be
>beyond comprehension of most Punjabis, who would rather prefer a
>simpleton like Iqbal.
I don't think Iqbal was quite such a simpleton. Anyway simplicity is
preferable to complexity(since life is complex enough as it is).
A person who could write "Shikwah"(in such simple terms) is truly a
genius.
>If those we hold sacred have no meaning to you, its just as well we
That's funny. Ghalib's poetry is sacred?
>start thinking in terms of two different cultures and languages and
>societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we free
>ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the Paindoos
>now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis before.
:) So there is a "political agenda" behind Ghalib worship. Even though
there are many (erstwhile) muhajirs and Punjabis who like Ghalib,
they certainly wont support your conclusion above. I am afraid you
are very lonely(in your stance).
>Nusrat Rizvi
>Rowayton, Conn
>
Baaj2
In article <5j6mqf$n...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) writes:
>>> Ghalib was a piece of shit in his life. All his life he lived on
>>> welfare, wealth stolen from the poor and downtrodden and doled out
>>> to likes of Ghalib. The best way to organize this `occasion' would
>>> be to have a `mujra' of `lakh or more' `navi prostitutes' who are
>>> `well educated' in their carnal behavior.
>
>
The person who wrote this has manners of a BJP-ite. They
have no respect for others.
Hassan Naqvi
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>In <3357B9...@cc.com> cSingh <c...@cc.com> writes:
>
>>> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man
>that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>>> > historical date. I invite all people of taste and culture (this
>should automatically preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to
>organise the occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>
>>One of the gretest poets to live in the Indian subc., his
>>memory must be preserved like a national treasure.
>> To all lovers of ghalib or those wanting to know about his life,
>>should see the "Ghalib" TV serial by gulzar.
>c.Singh
>
>I am not familier with any documentry on Ghalib by Gulzar. I have seen
>other dramas dealing with his life, some were good and others very bad.
>Do you know where I can find this particular one by Gulzar in NYC.
>Nusrat Rizvi
>Rowayton, Conn
Header for above post:
==============================
Subject: Re: Mirza Ghalib's Bi-centennial
Date: 18 Apr 1997 19:11:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Message-ID: <5j8h16$k...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
***
San Jose,CA
Zafaryab Khan
In article <5j8k9g$e...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>,
Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <5j88iq$ht6$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu
>(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>Let me try a different approach, how many people in London or New York
>will understand Shakespeare, How many Germans can understand or relate
>to Goethe. Conversely what Mirza Ghalib wrote is not for all but only
>those who understand his era and environment.
>
OK. It is possible that Ghalib's intellect is above and beyond my
comprehension. That I am unable to enjoy the nuances etc. My
point is that I do not find it inspiring(others may have a different
opinion). I would be more interested in a poet with a mass appeal instead
of the ivory tower bound intellectual. The reason I wrote this in the
first place was that someone made a comparison between Ramanujan and
Ghalib.
Ramanujan was a brilliant and hardworking man, while Ghalib lived
off of welfare. Do you have respect for able bodied people accepting the
dole. I am not trying to assasinate Ghalib's character. My point is that
such people are not worthy of my respect(since their consumption >>
production).
snip snip.
( You are right about Indian anthem. I apologize for the
misinformation(not disinformation since I didn't know better). I read
bang-e-dara when I was a kid and the "saray jahan seh acha hindustan
hamara" somehow stuck in my mind. )
>>
>>I don't think Iqbal was quite such a simpleton. Anyway simplicity is
>>preferable to complexity(since life is complex enough as it is).
>>A person who could write "Shikwah"(in such simple terms) is truly a
>>genius.
>>
>>>If those we hold sacred have no meaning to you, its just as well we
>>
>>That's funny. Ghalib's poetry is sacred?
>>
>To me and others like me, yes.
>
>>>start thinking in terms of two different cultures and languages and
>>>societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we free
>>>ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the Paindoos
>>>now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis before.
>>
>>:) So there is a "political agenda" behind Ghalib worship. Even though
>>there are many (erstwhile) muhajirs and Punjabis who like Ghalib,
>>they certainly wont support your conclusion above. I am afraid you
>>are very lonely(in your stance).
>
>
>This is in your genes and you can not help yourself but here you speak
>like a true dumb Punjabi. For example who gave you authority to speak
>on behalf of other people. And as long as we are on the subject, do you
>speak for everyone on scp or is your opinion limited to others of your
>ilk, namely Punjabis. I can not imagine any UP wala letting you speak
>for them, can you?
>Nusrat Rizvi
>Rowayton, Conn
I am not speaking on behalf of others. I don't see people supporting you
very often(i.e. 95% of the time people have a major disagreement with
you).
Hence I am just presenting empirical evidence.
Ameer Hassan
On 18 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> My dear Ameer,
First, I have no relationship with you, other than that of
utmost contempt.
> No whore can hold a candle to the expertise ability and accomplishments
> of your mother in matters of carnal desire and behavior.
We all know very well that a bundar like you can not recognize
himself or his mother. You ancestors carnal behavior is
very well portrayed in the movie `carnal knowledge'.
> Indeed if your
> mummy were to be the lead dancer and performer no one can ever easily
> forget a sencious evening like this anytime soon.
> Nusrat Rizvi
Once again, how do you charge for you daughters `naak kaa chida'?
Hassan Naqvi
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>In <5j6nfc$a4k$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu
>(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>
>>>>
>>>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man
>that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>>>> > historical date.
>>>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should
>automatically preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to
>organise the occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>>>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>
>>>>
>>>> welfare, wealth stolen from the poor and downtrodden and doled out
>>>> to likes of Ghalib. The best way to organize this `occasion' would
>>>> be to have a `mujra' of `lakh or more' `navi prostitutes' who are
>>>> `well educated' in their carnal behavior.
>>>>
>>>> out come.
>>>
>>
>>I am very impressed by Ramanujan(or what I got from browing through
>"Man who knew infinity"). Why is he a part of this discussion?
>>Mirza Ghalib on the other hand would have been an out of work
>>"intellectual" if he were alive today. He is not the nobel prize
>winning kind of person.
>>For one thing he did not have the "drive"(unlike Ramanujan who was
>>brilliant AND hardworking). I am also not too inspired by his poetry.
>He has a few new "twists" in his work, but its focus is very narrow.
>>I read his "letters" and out comes a picture of a self indulgent
>>dissipator. He is arguably intellectual and seems to have a following.
>He is not "one of a kind" by any means(imho). I prefer the works of
>Iqbal as its inspiring(I think Indian national anthem is based on it).
>Please don't bother to repost
>>Iqbal's murder of a prostitute story if you write a rebuttal. Its not
>>an issue right now(and in any case I am not interested).
>
>In order to understand and appreciate Ghalib one has to know and
>understand Urdu. I have never met a Punjabi who had complete command
>of our language. Therefore your critique above of the great man is
>preached love brotherhood, understanding and appreciation of finer
>things in life, Iqbal saw only Islam and everything through Islamic
>prism.
>creation of new Ideas based on old Indo-Persian parables would be
>beyond comprehension of most Punjabis, who would rather prefer a
>simpleton like Iqbal.
>societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we free
>ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the Paindoos
>now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis before.
>Rowayton, Conn
>
Header for above post:
Subject: Re: Mirza Ghalib's Bi-centennial
Organization: Netcom
Message-ID: <5j80ec$5...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
***
Dallas-FortWorth,TX
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5j9dgi$pt3$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login3.fas.harvard.edu
(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>
>Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Let me try a different approach, how many people in London or New
York will understand Shakespeare, How many Germans can understand or
relate to Goethe. Conversely what Mirza Ghalib wrote is not for all but
>>only those who understand his era and environment.
>OK. It is possible that Ghalib's intellect is above and beyond my
>comprehension. That I am unable to enjoy the nuances etc. My
>point is that I do not find it inspiring(others may have a different
>opinion). I would be more interested in a poet with a mass appeal
instead of the ivory tower bound intellectual. The reason I wrote this
in the first place was that someone made a comparison between Ramanujan
and Ghalib.
>Ramanujan was a brilliant and hardworking man, while Ghalib lived
>off of welfare. Do you have respect for able bodied people accepting
the dole. I am not trying to assasinate Ghalib's character. My point is
that such people are not worthy of my respect(since their consumption
>production).
It is blasphemy to state that Mirza Sahib lived on welfare. He came
from a well to do family which lost its estate to the British in lieu
of lifelong pension. This was the usual British commitment which was
never honoured and caused his family grief beyond words.
Since he was not qualified to perform brain surgery or dig ditches, he
did what came naturally to him. His genius was soon recognized as was
his character. Because he preached universal love his admirers included
people of different faith and list of his devotees and his
correspondence with them now form a new style of Urdu writing. It is
said by many that all the Muslims have to show for their thousand year
rule of India are Taj Mahal and Diwane Ghalib.
>snip snip.
>( You are right about Indian anthem. I apologize for the
>misinformation(not disinformation since I didn't know better). I read
>bang-e-dara when I was a kid and the "saray jahan seh acha hindustan
>hamara" somehow stuck in my mind. )
>>>
>>>I don't think Iqbal was quite such a simpleton. Anyway simplicity is
>>>preferable to complexity(since life is complex enough as it is).
>>>A person who could write "Shikwah"(in such simple terms) is truly a
>>>genius.
Does this mean everybody in Sialkot or Multan understands Shikwah?
>>>>If those we hold sacred have no meaning to you, its just as well we
>>>
>>>That's funny. Ghalib's poetry is sacred?
>>>
>>To me and others like me, yes.
>>
>>>>start thinking in terms of two different cultures and languages and
>>>>societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we
free
>>>>ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the
Paindoos
>>>>now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis
before.
>>>
>>>:) So there is a "political agenda" behind Ghalib worship. Even
though
>>>there are many (erstwhile) muhajirs and Punjabis who like Ghalib,
>>>they certainly wont support your conclusion above. I am afraid you
>>>are very lonely(in your stance).
>>
>>
>>This is in your genes and you can not help yourself but here you
speak like a true dumb Punjabi. For example who gave you authority to
speak on behalf of other people. And as long as we are on the subject,
do you speak for everyone on scp or is your opinion limited to others
of your ilk, namely Punjabis. I can not imagine any UP wala letting you
speak for them, can you?
>>Nusrat Rizvi
>
>I am not speaking on behalf of others. I don't see people supporting
you very often(i.e. 95% of the time people have a major disagreement
with you).
>Hence I am just presenting empirical evidence.
My role on scp is that of a teacher, I do not post to be popular. When
people state things I take exception to, I am not bashful about letting
them have it.
I have accumulated some knowledge living all these years in the West in
the company of good and wise people which I think I must share with my
young friends. Yes my own kids call me an old pedantic fool but I am
willing to belabour for a good cause which is to advance the principle
of humanity.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Zafaryab Khan
In article <5jae6v$9...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>,
Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <5j9dgi$pt3$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login3.fas.harvard.edu
>(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>>
>
>>Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>It is blasphemy to state that Mirza Sahib lived on welfare. He came
>from a well to do family which lost its estate to the British in lieu
>of lifelong pension. This was the usual British commitment which was
>never honoured and caused his family grief beyond words.
>Since he was not qualified to perform brain surgery or dig ditches, he
>did what came naturally to him. His genius was soon recognized as was
>his character. Because he preached universal love his admirers included
>people of different faith and list of his devotees and his
>correspondence with them now form a new style of Urdu writing. It is
>said by many that all the Muslims have to show for their thousand year
>rule of India are Taj Mahal and Diwane Ghalib.
>
I believe in eating what I earn. Eating a pension while I am young and
able
bodied is disgusting in my books. I don't want to judge him to harshly for
living on the dole, but I can't think of attributing any greatness on
him as a person(same goes for the opium addict who wrote the poem on
Kubai Khan and Xanadu).
>>>>I don't think Iqbal was quite such a simpleton. Anyway simplicity is
>>>>preferable to complexity(since life is complex enough as it is).
>>>>A person who could write "Shikwah"(in such simple terms) is truly a
>>>>genius.
>
>Does this mean everybody in Sialkot or Multan understands Shikwah?
>
No. But in my opinion the rewards of taking the time to understand is
worth it. It would lead to introspection and self improvement and self
criticism. I can't attribute such things to Ghalib's poetry.
>>I am not speaking on behalf of others. I don't see people supporting
>you very often(i.e. 95% of the time people have a major disagreement
>with you).
>>Hence I am just presenting empirical evidence.
>
>My role on scp is that of a teacher, I do not post to be popular. When
>people state things I take exception to, I am not bashful about letting
>them have it.
>I have accumulated some knowledge living all these years in the West in
>the company of good and wise people which I think I must share with my
>young friends. Yes my own kids call me an old pedantic fool but I am
>willing to belabour for a good cause which is to advance the principle
>of humanity.
>Nusrat Rizvi
>Rowayton, Conn
I have a hard time believing that you are advancing the "principle of
humanity". I find many of your posts steeped in racism and hatred.
I have learnt something from you in this thread(however) and I thank you
for it.
regards
Zafar
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
On Apr 18, 1997 16:47:22 in article <Re: Mirza Ghalib's Bi-centennial>,
'zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu (Zafaryab Khan)' wrote:
. As a case in point the
>national anthems of both India and Pakistan is penned by punjabis(Iqbal
>through Islamic prism(or else his work would not have been chosen as
>the national anthem of India(a "secular" country)).
>
Indian National anthem "Jana Gana Mana " was composed by Rabindranath
Tagore, who also composed the anthem of Bangladesh
gailani
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:22:09 GMT, rizv...@pipeline.com
(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>=
>=
>=>PERVAIZ RIZVI wrote:
>=>>
>=>> Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>=>> >
>=>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest man that
>=>> > ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate this
>=>> > historical date.
>=>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
>=>> > preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
>=>> > occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>=>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>=
>=>> You sir are a great fan of the harami hindus to the extent that I
>=>> thought that you are one of them till ameer bhai corrected me
>=>> my brother visited india from uk he saw Ghalib house the house he used
>=>> to live he was very upset at the condition in which this house was kept
>=>> it was in a bad shape these hindus did not do any thing to perserve a
>=>> place of a great poet.Had galib be in Pakistan let me assure you sir the
>=>> people you call paindoos would have taken care of that
>=>> I hope you would raise your voice on this issue
>=>> PERVAIZ RIZVI
>=
>=The GOI can with some justifiaction say, that Ghalib was a poet of
>=Urdu language of which they have thousands. If Govt. of Pakistan where
>=Urdu is the only official language, wants to bestow some special
>=honours on this great literary figure of their language no body is
>=stopping them from doing so. We know this will never come to pass as
>=the ruling thugs would rather spend our money on buying planes and
>=tanks than fix Mirza sahibs mausleum.
>=Nusrat Rizvi
>=Rowayton, Conn
@@@@@ Being a very sucessful man, you have gathered
enough wealth. Reading your great love for Mirza Ghalib
would you like to offer some for this cause?? Or just
boasting your empty love for Mirza jee.
gailani
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu
Zafaryab Khan wrote:
> Ramanujan was a brilliant and hardworking man, while Ghalib lived
> off of welfare. Do you have respect for able bodied people accepting
> the dole. I am not trying to assasinate Ghalib's character. My point
> is that such people are not worthy of my respect (since their
> consumption production).
Many distinguished people were able to their work by virtue of support
from the public or a wealthy patron. Lord Kelvin was able to be a
scientist because he had an inheritance to live on. Britian has/had
a civil list system where Parliament decrees a small stipend for a
person who's valuable to society but has no earning capacity.
Hassan Naqvi
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>In <5j9dgi$pt3$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login3.fas.harvard.edu
>(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
>>
>
>>Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>York will understand Shakespeare, How many Germans can understand or
>relate to Goethe. Conversely what Mirza Ghalib wrote is not for all but
>>>only those who understand his era and environment.
>
>>comprehension. That I am unable to enjoy the nuances etc. My
>>point is that I do not find it inspiring(others may have a different
>>opinion). I would be more interested in a poet with a mass appeal
>instead of the ivory tower bound intellectual. The reason I wrote this
>in the first place was that someone made a comparison between Ramanujan
>and Ghalib.
>>off of welfare. Do you have respect for able bodied people accepting
>the dole. I am not trying to assasinate Ghalib's character. My point is
>that such people are not worthy of my respect(since their consumption
>>production).
>
>from a well to do family which lost its estate to the British in lieu
>of lifelong pension. This was the usual British commitment which was
>never honoured and caused his family grief beyond words.
>Since he was not qualified to perform brain surgery or dig ditches, he
>did what came naturally to him. His genius was soon recognized as was
>his character. Because he preached universal love his admirers included
>people of different faith and list of his devotees and his
>correspondence with them now form a new style of Urdu writing. It is
>said by many that all the Muslims have to show for their thousand year
>rule of India are Taj Mahal and Diwane Ghalib.
>
>>( You are right about Indian anthem. I apologize for the
>>misinformation(not disinformation since I didn't know better). I read
>>bang-e-dara when I was a kid and the "saray jahan seh acha hindustan
>>hamara" somehow stuck in my mind. )
>>>>
>>>>preferable to complexity(since life is complex enough as it is).
>>>>A person who could write "Shikwah"(in such simple terms) is truly a
>>>>genius.
>
>
>>>>
>>>>That's funny. Ghalib's poetry is sacred?
>>>>
>>>To me and others like me, yes.
>>>
>>>>>start thinking in terms of two different cultures and languages and
>>>>>societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we
>free
>>>>>ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the
>Paindoos
>>>>>now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis
>before.
>>>>
>>>>:) So there is a "political agenda" behind Ghalib worship. Even
>though
>>>>there are many (erstwhile) muhajirs and Punjabis who like Ghalib,
>>>>they certainly wont support your conclusion above. I am afraid you
>>>>are very lonely(in your stance).
>>>
>>>
>>>This is in your genes and you can not help yourself but here you
>speak like a true dumb Punjabi. For example who gave you authority to
>speak on behalf of other people. And as long as we are on the subject,
>do you speak for everyone on scp or is your opinion limited to others
>of your ilk, namely Punjabis. I can not imagine any UP wala letting you
>speak for them, can you?
>>>Nusrat Rizvi
>>
>you very often(i.e. 95% of the time people have a major disagreement
>with you).
>>Hence I am just presenting empirical evidence.
>
>My role on scp is that of a teacher, I do not post to be popular. When
>people state things I take exception to, I am not bashful about letting
>them have it.
>I have accumulated some knowledge living all these years in the West in
>the company of good and wise people which I think I must share with my
>young friends. Yes my own kids call me an old pedantic fool but I am
>willing to belabour for a good cause which is to advance the principle
>of humanity.
>Nusrat Rizvi
>Rowayton, Conn
>
>
Header for above post:
======================================
Subject: Re: Mirza Ghalib's Bi-centennial
Date: 19 Apr 1997 12:35:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Message-ID: <5jae6v$9...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>
***
San Jose, CA
mis...@pha.jhu.edu
In article <5jaqpm$8t$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>,
zk...@login1.fas.harvard.edu (Zafaryab Khan) wrote:
> I believe in eating what I earn. Eating a pension while I am young and
> able
> bodied is disgusting in my books. I don't want to judge him to harshly for
> living on the dole, but I can't think of attributing any greatness on
> him as a person(same goes for the opium addict who wrote the poem on
> Kubai Khan and Xanadu).
It's easy to say that you like to eat what you earn when you don't
have a choice. If Mr.Rizvi's assertion (that the pension was given
in lieu of the wealth confiscated by the Brits) is correct, then
I really don't think it was some kind of charity. It was his rightful
money.
You say you don't have an appreciation of Ghalib's poetry. Good for
you. But many of us feel that what he was given was little compared
to the great gift he left for us i.e. his diwan. Michael Jackson has
made heaven knows how much money from the sales of his album and
thanks to the copyright laws, his progeny (if he's capable of having
any) will keep reaping the benefits even after he dies. What did
Ghalib get for his work? Hundreds of thousands of people buy his
diwan more than a hundred years after his death. The sales are now
probably in crores of rupees. Is one percent of Divan e Ghalib's
total sales to date more or less than the money he took as
pension?
> No. But in my opinion the rewards of taking the time to understand is
> worth it. It would lead to introspection and self improvement and self
> criticism. I can't attribute such things to Ghalib's poetry.
I consider "shikwah" good poetry. I wouldn't have had it memorized
otherwise. For the firebrand ideologue Shikwah has great inspirational
power. But "shikwah" (together with most of Iqbal's excellent poetry)
has limited ideological appeal. If you are a Hindu, you'll be disgusted
by "shikwah". (Remember the "muNh ke bal gir kay hua Allah aHad kehtay
thay" part.) In a larger context I see this as a conflict between
the classic ghazal and what they call "maqsadi sha'iri". Iqbal
was one of the trend-setters of the latter. While ideological poetry
has it's own charm and beauty, ghazal (as that of Ghalib and Mir)
resonates with very human emotions that transcend ideology. It
might not be inspiring (as propaganda usually is), but it appeals
to the heart. Ghalib's genius was not only in saying old things
in the most novel way, but incorporating profound philosophical
thought in this genre yet retaining the richness of the classic
romantic ghazal.
> >I have accumulated some knowledge living all these years in the West in
> >the company of good and wise people which I think I must share with my
> >young friends. Yes my own kids call me an old pedantic fool but I am
Hahahahahaha
Mohammad Noorul Islam
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Zafaryab Khan
In article <8615521...@dejanews.com>, <mis...@pha.jhu.edu> wrote:
>In article <5jaqpm$8t$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>,
> zk...@login1.fas.harvard.edu (Zafaryab Khan) wrote:
>
>It's easy to say that you like to eat what you earn when you don't
I would like to think that there's more to it. For instance Aurangzeb
(the grand king of India) paid for his personal expenses by selling his
calligraphy. I am talking about dignity of labor (which I(personally) came
to
appreciate in the west). My comment was in response to Mr Rizvi's
assertion
that Ghalib was not "qualified to dig ditches" etc...
>
>> No. But in my opinion the rewards of taking the time to understand is
>> worth it. It would lead to introspection and self improvement and self
>> criticism. I can't attribute such things to Ghalib's poetry.
>
>I consider "shikwah" good poetry. I wouldn't have had it memorized
>otherwise. For the firebrand ideologue Shikwah has great inspirational
>power. But "shikwah" (together with most of Iqbal's excellent poetry)
>has limited ideological appeal. If you are a Hindu, you'll be disgusted
>by "shikwah". (Remember the "muNh ke bal gir kay hua Allah aHad kehtay
>thay" part.) In a larger context I see this as a conflict between
>the classic ghazal and what they call "maqsadi sha'iri". Iqbal
>was one of the trend-setters of the latter. While ideological poetry
>has it's own charm and beauty, ghazal (as that of Ghalib and Mir)
>resonates with very human emotions that transcend ideology. It
>might not be inspiring (as propaganda usually is), but it appeals
>to the heart. Ghalib's genius was not only in saying old things
>in the most novel way, but incorporating profound philosophical
>thought in this genre yet retaining the richness of the classic
>romantic ghazal.
>
That's balanced and I can go along with it.
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Hassan Naqvi wrote:
>
> rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
> >In <5j6nfc$a4k$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu> zk...@login2.fas.harvard.edu
> >(Zafaryab Khan) writes:
> >
> >>>> On 15 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > historical date.
> >>>> > I invite all people of taste and culture (this should
> >societies. There will be no free country for Mohajirs unless we free
> >ourselves from the evils of Islam first, whose idealogy the Paindoos
> >now uses to occupy and loots us just as they did to Bengalis before.
> >Rowayton, Conn
> >
> Header for above post:
> Subject: Re: Mirza Ghalib's Bi-centennial
> Organization: Netcom
> Message-ID: <5j80ec$5...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
> ***
> Dallas-FortWorth,TX
yar Naqvi sahib you dont seem to have any other post except this it
doesnt matters who the real nusrat rizvi is both their post are against
punjabis and islam they are both hindu key chellay
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Zafaryab Khan
In article <335B662B...@swdc.stratus.com>,
Ranjit Mathews Piravonu <ran...@swdc.stratus.com> wrote:
>Zafaryab Khan wrote:
> > I think the charity/welfare/dole for able bodied people is inherently
> > evil.
>Is zakat evil ?
>
Zakat is given to widows, orphans and people who are facing some
exceptional
difficulty in life. Accepting Zakat as a way of life(i.e. like living
year in/year out on food stamps) is "haram". In addition, many poor
people in Pakistan *refuse* to accept *Zakat* since they think they might
be taking away the rights of people poorer than them(or it affects their
self image/respect etc.)
> > An intellectual who lives off an inheritance and does not earn his
> > keep has an unfair advantage over others.
>These days, they earn their living as professors.
Ameer Hassan
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997 mis...@pha.jhu.edu wrote:
> In article <5jaqpm$8t$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>,
> zk...@login1.fas.harvard.edu (Zafaryab Khan) wrote:
>
> > I believe in eating what I earn. Eating a pension while I am young and
> > able
> > bodied is disgusting in my books. I don't want to judge him to harshly for
> > living on the dole, but I can't think of attributing any greatness on
> > him as a person(same goes for the opium addict who wrote the poem on
> > Kubai Khan and Xanadu).
>
> It's easy to say that you like to eat what you earn when you don't
> have a choice. If Mr.Rizvi's assertion (that the pension was given
> in lieu of the wealth confiscated by the Brits) is correct,i
It is a false assumption. The Brits confiscated govt owned properties
not any personal property from Ghalib. He lived off the handouts
(wazeefa) doled out by the blood suckers. Galib applied for
pension claiming to be a govt servant in the previous govt of
blood suckers, which was rightfully denied by the Brits. Then he
was offered several jobs, which he refused on one pretext or other.
> then
> I really don't think it was some kind of charity. It was his rightful
> money.
False, as it is not based on facts.
> You say you don't have an appreciation of Ghalib's poetry. Good for
> you. But many of us feel that what he was given was little compared
> to the great gift he left for us i.e. his divan. Michael Jackson has
> made heaven knows how much money from the sales of his album and
> thanks to the copyright laws, his progeny (if he's capable of having
> any) will keep reaping the benefits even after he dies. What did
> Ghalib get for his work? Hundreds of thousands of people buy his
> divan more than a hundred years after his death. The sales are now
> probably in crores of rupees. Is one percent of Divan e Ghalib's
> total sales to date more or less than the money he took as
> pension?
>
>
The Paindoo govt should flush this language out, just as
Indians, Bengalis, and Sindhis have done. Then the hijras
can keep on reading Ghalibs `gift'.
P.S. I doubt that MNI knows any thing about copy right laws
(by the way established by the Goras) other wise he would not
bark about `hundred years after death' when the copy rights
have lapsed for a long long time.
> > No. But in my opinion the rewards of taking the time to understand is
> > worth it. It would lead to introspection and self improvement and self
> > criticism. I can't attribute such things to Ghalib's poetry.
>
> I consider "shikwah" good poetry. I wouldn't have had it memorized
> otherwise. For the firebrand ideologue Shikwah has great inspirational
> power. But "shikwah" (together with most of Iqbal's excellent poetry)
> has limited ideological appeal. If you are a Hindu, you'll be disgusted
> by "shikwah". (Remember the "muNh ke bal gir kay hua Allah aHad kehtay
> thay" part.) In a larger context I see this as a conflict between
> the classic ghazal and what they call "maqsadi sha'iri".i
In other words, it is `the conflict between bay-maqsad Sha'iri'' and
the `ba-maqsad Sha'iri'.
Here is what `Hali' had to say about these `bay-maqsad Sha'irs'.
`Soona hay kay dilli main ulo kay pathay,
rage gul say bulbul kay par bandtay hain'.
> Iqbal
> was one of the trend-setters of the latter. While ideological poetry
> has it's own charm and beauty, ghazal (as that of Ghalib and Mir)
> resonates with very human emotions that transcend ideology. It
> might not be inspiring (as propaganda usually is), but it appeals
> to the heart. Ghalib's genius was not only in saying old things
> in the most novel way, but incorporating profound philosophical
> thought in this genre yet retaining the richness of the classic
> romantic ghazal.
>
>
While MNI jumped in to lecture about Ghalib, did he ever care to
say anything to his apostle NR who has been throwing all kind of
Galis on Iqbal? No how could he.
Nusrat Rizvi
In <33585873...@snews2.zippo.com> gailani writes:
>
>>=>> Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>>=>> > December 27th 1997 will be 200th anniversary of the greatest
man that ever lived. I will gladly undertake a function to commemorate
this historical date.
> I invite all people of taste and culture (this should automatically
>>=>> > preclude any fans of Iqbal) to suggest how best to organise the
>>=>> > occasion. Kindly email your suggestions.
>>=>> > Nusrat Rizvi
>>=
>>=>> You sir are a great fan of the harami hindus to the extent that I
>>=>> thought that you are one of them till ameer bhai corrected me
>>=>> my brother visited india from uk he saw Ghalib house the house
he used to live he was very upset at the condition in which this house
was kept it was in a bad shape these hindus did not do any thing to
perserve a place of a great poet.Had galib be in Pakistan let me assure
you sir the people you call paindoos would have taken care of that
>>=>> I hope you would raise your voice on this issue
>>=>> PERVAIZ RIZVI
>>=
>>=The GOI can with some justifiaction say, that Ghalib was a poet of
>>=Urdu language of which they have thousands. If Govt. of Pakistan
where Urdu is the only official language, wants to bestow some special
>>=honours on this great literary figure of their language no body is
>>=stopping them from doing so. We know this will never come to pass as
>>=the ruling thugs would rather spend our money on buying planes and
>>=tanks than fix Mirza sahibs mausleum.
>>=Nusrat Rizvi
>>=Rowayton, Conn
>
>
>@@@@@ Being a very sucessful man, you have gathered
>enough wealth. Reading your great love for Mirza Ghalib
>would you like to offer some for this cause?? Or just
>boasting your empty love for Mirza jee.
>gailani
But you still insist being a good paindoo that you are, that the ruling
thugs should be free to take foreign exchage, earned by Urdu speakers
of Karachi, should go to buy weapons which will after the next war end
up in the Indian inventory.
PS, Sahib is proper form of respect in Urdu.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
PERVAIZ RIZVI
not unserstood by all he was not the type of jalib .Iqbal was far
versitile than ghalib .besides ghalib was a rundibaz a drunk never
prayed it is said that after much persuation he did go to a mosque but
one of his hindu student showed him two bottles of wine ghalib came out
wo praying saying the thing he wanted to pray for he has already got
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Nusrat Rizvi
nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Naufal A. Khan) wrote:
>Zafaryab Khan <zk...@login3.fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>:
>:OK. It is possible that Ghalib's intellect is above and beyond my
>:comprehension. That I am unable to enjoy the nuances etc. My
>
>No offense, but it is highly probable as well. Ghalib was a mushkil-pasand
>poet - initially on the vocab. and later on the ideas. I would go
>as far as declaring that our self-proclaimed Ghalib expert NR would
>probably not get most of the ash'ar unless he replaced the words
>with paindoo or whores - another theory is that he (NR) uses Mirza Ghalib
>to refer to .... - well Omar Alavi has done more research on this
>theory.
>Naufal.
Nobody who has spoken to me would question my grasp of Urdu, your
suggestion therefore is flawed like most of your other ideas one is
forced to read on scp. Lets hope you do better detective work
elsewhere than testing my sanity when your own is in great doubt.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >Ghalib was an intelligent man and a great poet although his poetry is
> >not unserstood by all he was not the type of jalib .Iqbal was far
> >versitile than ghalib .besides ghalib was a rundibaz a drunk never
> >prayed it is said that after much persuation he did go to a mosque but
> >one of his hindu student showed him two bottles of wine ghalib came out
> >wo praying saying the thing he wanted to pray for he has already got
> >PERVAIZ RIZVI
>
Sir Ghalib was the biggest patron of the rundis
hile it is a
> matter of public record that the poet laureate of Paindooland Iqbal
> absconded after murdering a poor prostitute. Small wonder he opted not
> to be a public figure. With such baggage, who would want to draw
> attention to oneself.
> Nusrat Rizvi
> Rowayton, Conn
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5jmeei$j...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Naufal A. Khan) writes:
>
>
>Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@pipeline.com> wrote:
>:nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Naufal A. Khan) wrote:
>:
>::poet - initially on the vocab. and later on the ideas. I would go
>::as far as declaring that our self-proclaimed Ghalib expert NR would
>::probably not get most of the ash'ar unless he replaced the words
>::with paindoo or whores -
>
>
>:Nobody who has spoken to me would question my grasp of Urdu, your
>
>LOL !!! Apparently, you're confusing Ghalib's poetry with Ismail
>Merthi's 'BachchoN kay naghmay' - IMHO, the above stmt. pretty
>much diffuses all the rahay-sahay claims that you profess regarding
>poetry. There is a LOT more to poetry (especially that by Ghalib,
>Mir, Dard etc.) than the language literal knowhow. Infact, the entire
>beauty of Ghalib's poetry is in the little 'tarakeeb' while using
>the simplest language. Any fool (even Mariam) can succeed in
>understanding Urdu ... that just ain't enough. Oh, and I do
>sympathize for the insecurities that your stmt above reeks of.
Unlike you I will gladly confess that Mirza Sahib's poetry has become
a challenge for me as I do my utmost to decipher other than obvious
in his words and philosophy. What on earth is Tarakeeb, is it some word
in common usage around Madras which has not made its way to Lucknow
just yet.
I have sat down and have had the pleasure of speaking with Mariam, and
based on my evaluation, you can rest assured she is anything but fool.
Your oft stated claim of wisdom on the other hand remains
unsubstantiated.
As regards my insecurities, I bow my head in thanks every time I look
at your postings and say to myself, and there for the grace of God go
I.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
>:suggestion therefore is flawed like most of your other ideas one is
>:forced to read on scp. Lets hope you do better detective work
>
>I guess this is one prime difference ... regardless of what I
>write, people feel compelled/forced to read it. In your case, most of
>the posts start with 'paindoo' and end with pornographic concoctions
>about the other person's mother ... which is why a whole bunch of
>your gems of wisdom get the 'n' treatment.
What makes you so sure you are really such sought after intellect.
Are you hanging around dumb paindoos again whose childish sense of
self-importance is rubbing off on you.
>:elsewhere than testing my sanity when your own is in great doubt.
>
>I never tested your sanity ... its a waste of time for we all are
>reminded of the results daily. Infact, I wasn't even addressing you.
>Naufal.
Again with the royal we, boy you sure are taking on paindoo habits.
Zahra_...@msn.com
In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.97042...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>,
------------------------------------------ Dear Sir: While reading this
chain made me recollect my teachings about the lives of different poets.
What struck me was the use of very fine language by you.
It is such a nice discussion going on amongst the learned ones til there
was an unnecessary attack on MNI, which was quite useless.
Try to give him an opportunity to speak his mind as well as share his
knowledge at least it is better than "The case of the lost cassettes and
un/non recoverable items".
OK, I think I need to say a word or two over here. ...:-) This stmnt
should be taken as an idiomatic expression and not a literal one.
Iqbal , as most of you have mentioned was an inspirational poet. His
poetry held a lot of meaning to the Muslims in the times of partition.
And though his verses accentuated the meaning of unity, faith and
discipline(which we are still learning ....) but they were from religion
point of view and not from Urdu Speaking or Punjabi's perspective. Now
the way you guys are throwing underlying hints, in order to create this
Punjabi and UPites rift is quite inappropriate. (:
Kindly do not tell me who said what previously?
Coming back to the point..
There is a concept of Khudi, there are rubayaat's about Muslims getting
astray and not following the doctrines of Islam "Yeh Sub Baqi hai too
baqi NAHEEN hai", and a lot more. It has to be kept in mind the audience
was different in Iqbal's times than it was in Ghalib's.
I do not remember Ghalib's life history though I was quite well versed in
my Urdu lessons, it would hurt(my Urdu prof) a alot as well as the BISE,
where my final papers were submitted explaining why .... Duniyaa was a
Bazeecha-e -Atfaal for Ghalib and why Ghalib preferred Roaen gai hum
hazar bar koi humain satae kyoon. Then the dilemma he was going
through...... "Eeman Mujhe Roake HAI , Jo Kheenchai Hai Mujhe Kufr
Kaa'ba M-rae Peechai Hai, To Kalesa M-rae Aagae"
He had his own way of expression which was beautiful with a fine sense to
select the shustaa words. One can learn a lot about Urdu by reading
poetry. As one enhances ones vocabulary by seeing how the rhythm goes. It
is the same for any other langauge.
Now sitting on my papasan chair on a beautiful day, when the sun is about
to set(Evening is about to start) and I happen to open soc.pak and see
the battle of the P and US going on, I would read, contemplate, read ,
contemplate, read and then smile thinking .... * Na ho naumeed naumeedi
zawalae ilm-o-irfan hai Umeed-e mard-e-momin hai khuda kai razdanoan mai
and when i read the patriotic stuff , i will question myself ....
* Jala Sakti Hai Shamaa'e Kushta Ko Maujae Nafas Inkee
Ilahee Kya Chupaa Hota hai Ahlae Dil Kai seenon' maen
then when secularism comes.....(: I start pondering a little deeply ,
kind of leaving the world .....and finally telling myself..... (I would
reserve my comments, some other time)
Besides all my love and respect for Iqbal, I am assuming he always meant
men as well as women when he mentioned "Marde-e-Momin". And always
referred to men when he said "MARD-E-NADAN".....:-) I like taking serious
discussions to nonserious directions, but it should not be interpreted as
if I am biased. It is just I was pointing out the need....:-)
But in another scenario, when I am kind of down and am also looking at
Duniyaa kee Baisabati and want saqeel verses to leave a never ending
impact on the listener, I would always open the first page of the deewan
with equal respect and an urge to keep the lughat in hand though a couple
of years back things were quite different.) And recite Ba-Awaz-e Buland
*Naqsh faryadi hai kis kee shokhiyae tahreer kaa...... Kaghazi hai
pairhun hur paikare tasweer ka
In a nutshell,
rather than taking pride on the basis of the origin(Of the poets'), I
would take it quite seriously to my heart , the message that was left by
the Bad-e Saba while i was in the meditation mode:
Saying
Kal Paon Ik Kasae Sar Par Jo Aa Gaya
Yaksar wo Istakhwan' shikastoan sae choor thaa
Khainai Laga Kae Dekh Kai Chal Raah Baekhabar
Mein Bhee Khabee kisee ka Sar-e Pur Gharoor Thaa.
(I think it was filbadeeh ......?)
Good Night,
ZJ
mis...@pha.jhu.edu
In article <8618674...@dejanews.com>,
Zahra_...@msn.com wrote:
> Dear Sir: While reading this
> chain made me recollect my teachings about the lives of different poets.
> What struck me was the use of very fine language by you.
Quite right. Professor sahib is most shusta-go person. If you
ever visit Seattle, you should certainly visit his gaoN which
is close by.
> rather than taking pride on the basis of the origin(Of the poets'), I
> would take it quite seriously to my heart , the message that was left by
> the Bad-e Saba while i was in the meditation mode:
>
> Saying
>
> Kal Paon Ik Kasae Sar Par Jo Aa Gaya
> Yaksar wo Istakhwan' shikastoan sae choor thaa
> Khainai Laga Kae Dekh Kai Chal Raah Baekhabar
> Mein Bhee Khabee kisee ka Sar-e Pur Gharoor Thaa.
Zahra sahiba I am overwhelmed by awe and admiration. It is pretty
amazing that the morning breeze brings you such profound messages.
But I think the baad-e-saba has a limited stock of verses as it's
known to have said something darn close to someone else.
Warmest regards
Mohammad Noorul Islam
Ameer Hassan
On 24 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> Unlike you I will gladly confess that Mirza Sahib's poetry has become
> a challenge for me as I do my utmost to decipher other than obvious
> in his words and philosophy. What on earth is Tarakeeb, is it some word
> in common usage around Madras which has not made its way to Lucknow
> just yet.
Only a piece of shit like NR will claim to know `Urdu'
(pushtinee style) and Urdu poetry (including Ghalib) and yet not
know what a `Tarkeeb' is.
>
> Again with the royal we, boy you sure are taking on paindoo habits.
>
The bloody piece of shit forgot that this `we' business belongs to
his pushtinee taweef culture.
MoinA
>besides ghalib was a rundibaz a drunk
Similar stories are around of Iqbal too. He was involved in the murder of
a prostitute...\
The poetry of Iqbal was very heavily "INFLUENCED" from Neitszhe...in fact
many of the concepts are verbatem copies of the SUPERMAN (momin)and SELF
(Khudi) from the German philosopher.........just like Tagore, Iqbal was
influenced by his Europen counterparts.
Ghalibs peotry was PROFOUND and original and the subcontinent has NOT
produced a poet of his stature.
*************************************************************************
My home page:ftp://usman.imran.com/pub/articles/moin/)
Faisal's Education Mailing Lists-Taleemi Jamaat www Home Page: http://www.tuns.ca/~fkharadi/taleem/TaleemiJ.html
Help us provide education for Pakistanis. Join the EML
Ameer Hassan
On 24 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> > He lived off the handouts
> >(wazeefa) doled out by the blood suckers.
>
> A similar discussion is being played out on Soc.culture.usa on "handouts"
> to the National Endowmnets to the Arts. The Republicans believe that no
> money should be granted to the liberal institutions, while most Democats
> believe that the sponsorship of the NEA supports liberal arts genius.
>
If this MA, would have some brains he would realize that while US is
well off, India of that time was dirt poor, and the these blood
suckers were living off the hard-working, yet dirt poor masses.
> If we compare the "blood suckers" to the current rulers of the
> Subcontinent and compare the support the new states have given to arts and
> culture one will find our current government lacking.
Yup. There is no reason to dole out to people who will sit around,
drink, play `juwa', and burp.
>
> The REAL blood suckers THEN and now were the feudals...a die breed that
> maintians private prisons and enslaves men and disenfranchises women and
> treats them like chattel EVEN TODAY.
>
And the major feudals being the then govt, which was responsible for all
this. They are the ones who used these feudals to suck blood from the
masses.
> These folks who supported Ghalib are the very folks that created one of
> the finest civilizations on the planet.
These folks can keep this `finest civilization' to themselves.
No one else gives a damn.
> EXPLAIN the rhetorical "blood
> sucking" as defined by Karl Marx. While Marxism and Leninism has been sent
> to the dustbin of history,
Only after sending such blood suckers to their rightful place.
> the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
> Gardens, the paintings, the translation of the Gita, the trasnlation of
> the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism that
> spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
> nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
> subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their leagacy..................
>
You can keep that legacy, along with the legacy of hirams,
tawaeef-khanas and what not.
> Art and literaature created in the past four centuries is culminated in
> the writings of Ghalib....and the South Asian Subcontinent is so much
> richer that it created the pain and and ecstacy that created the eulogies
> and the ghazalls during that time............
>
> Listening to Jagjit Singh song sonnets in Atlanta Symphony hall last month
> gave us one more reason to be proud of our culture. Americans, Indians,
> Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis all enjoyed the culture that spawned poets
> like Ghalib and Iqbal
The Bengalis enjoyed this culture so much that they flushed this
language down the toilet.
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
>chain made me recollect my teachings about the lives of different poets.
>What struck me was the use of very fine language by you.
>
>It is such a nice discussion going on amongst the learned ones til there
>was an unnecessary attack on MNI, which was quite useless.
[deleted for brevity]
>(I think it was filbadeeh ......?)
>Good Night,
MASHA ALLAH!!
Good stuff.
Ahmer
Nusrat Rizvi
How many times have I asked you not to go near the keyboard
when your Sikh genes are jumping, will you please take it easy
and keep your mothers indiscretion a secret by staying quiet.
Your elegant style of writing coupled with your vocab and
eloquence should have you earmarked for a distinguished
position as an ambassador to Washington or the UN from
paindooland. I am surprised why have they not noticed you yet.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
PERVAIZ RIZVI
madan lal wrote:
>
> On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:50:07 GMT, Ameer Hassan <aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >On 24 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Unlike you I will gladly confess that Mirza Sahib's poetry has become
> >> a challenge for me as I do my utmost to decipher other than obvious
> >> in his words and philosophy. What on earth is Tarakeeb, is it some word
> >> in common usage around Madras which has not made its way to Lucknow
> >> just yet.
> >
> >Only a piece of shit like NR will claim to know `Urdu'
> >(pushtinee style) and Urdu poetry (including Ghalib) and yet not
> >know what a `Tarkeeb' is.
> >
>
>
> >>
> >> Again with the royal we, boy you sure are taking on paindoo habits.
> >>
> >
> >The bloody piece of shit forgot that this `we' business belongs to
> >his pushtinee taweef culture.
> >
> madan lal
OYAE HINDU KHUT O MAL TO BAZ NAHEE AYEGA
Nusrat Rizvi
In <Pine.OSF.3.96.97042...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> Ameer
Hassan <aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> writes:
>Only after sending such blood suckers to their rightful place.
>> the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
>> Gardens, the paintings, the translation of the Gita, the trasnlation
of the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism
that spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
>> nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
>> subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their
leagacy..................
>
>You can keep that legacy, along with the legacy of hirams,
>tawaeef-khanas and what not.
Ameer Hassan
Please Ameer do not denigrate the tawaeef Khanas. For all we know you
may well have been conceived and reared in one as most here suspect.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Hassan Naqvi
Header for above post:
------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Ghalib, Iqbal and Welfare
Date: 26 Apr 1997 00:37:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Message-ID: <5jrip3$6...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
***
Dallas-FortWorth,TX
Shehnaz Bano
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:05:55 GMT, Ameer Hassan <aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
spoke:
>It is understandable that any thing against the whore houses of lakh-navi-
>taweefs introduced every month will be taken as `blasphemy' by NR and his
>kind. But the facts remain. British took away the brothels of these blood
>suckers who were living in luxury by stealing from the populace,
>in the name of taxation. The self deceiving Ghalib, used every excuse in
>and out side the book so that he does not have to work. Not a single
>day in his life.
Ameer Bhai,
To be fair to Ghalib, you can't say he didn't do any work in his life, when
the 'Deewan-e-Ghalib' is living proof of his talent. Whatever the man did in
his personal life should not detract us from his work. It would be like
looking for flaws in Newtons character to deny his wirk in science.
Shehnaz
Baaj2
In article <33621179...@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>, sheh...@yorku.ca
(Shehnaz Bano) writes:
> Ameer Bhai,
>To be fair to Ghalib, you can't say he didn't do any work in his life,
when
>the 'Deewan-e-Ghalib' is living proof of his talent. Whatever the man did
in
>his personal life should not detract us from his work. It would be like
>looking for flaws in Newtons character to deny his wirk in science.
>
>Shehnaz
>
>
Most of the great poets and philosphers appear to have what
appears like accentric side of their personality to normal people.
Sometimes their genius is realized much after they die.
Mirza Ghalib was one of the greatest poets to live. His
greatness was in his poetry not how he made a living.
If he was born in a different time or today, he perhaps would
have made millions selling his art commercially.
madan lal
oye, fittay munh tera, khotay da puttar. if you want to support nusrat rizvi
then go friend with gang. i am supporting ammeer hassan to fight mahajirs.
MoinA
COMPLETE DISCUSSION POSTED ON SOC.CULTURE.PAKISTAN.HISTORY
I am not too sure about the bedroom antics of Gahlib....the Quran clearly
asks us not to judge other Muslims and marhoom Muslims at that. Who will
go to hell or heaven is ONLY known to Allah and will find out about this
on Qiamat day. According to the Quran ...Gheebat of course is like eating
your dead brothers body. If one has not seen the adultery (as in the
actual genitals)...the witness does not stand in Islamic court. One needs
three. Who is to say how much of Ghalibs persona was fantsy and how much
was fact?
If you wish to stand in judgement, please do. I am in no position to
judge.
I know Ghalib was involved with a female on a permannent basis and this
was the love of his life.
Ghalib too has written a lot of profund peotry about God. In fact some
people do interpret his ISHQ to be written for the highest authority of
God. Ghalib was not a mullah, neither was Iqbal.
Like Gahlib, Iqbal was proclaimed a KAFIR by the mullahs of his time (JUST
LIKE YOU PROCLAIMED Ghalib as a bad Muslim). Iqbal too was involved in the
murder of a prostitute, and was absolved of the crime because someone gave
him an alibii.
Copying European ideas is NOT "normal"...it is plagarism. Iqbal's poetry
was european influenced and copied. Even the thinking pose of Iqbal is a
verbatem copy of Neitsche. If you look up any book on Neitsche you will be
shocked at the similarities. Ghalibs peotry was profound and original. In
terms of vocabulary and Urdu, Ghalib is an aouthority on Urdu, while Iqbal
is a novice.
To enjoy Urdu/Punjabi peotry which is a rich part of our heritage, we must
learn to enjoy our literature...and we for sure cannot judge everyone on
someones yardstick of Islamic Muslimness. If we are to enjoy Faiz and Josh
Malaihabadi and Jagjit Singh we have to look at their works not their
MUSLIMNESS or lack thereof.
MoinA
> Mirza Ghalib was one of the greatest poets to live. His
>greatness was in his poetry not how he made a living.
> If he was born in a different time or today, he perhaps would
>have made millions selling his art commercially.
He in fact refused to write QASEEDAS (eulogies for the monarch and other
royalty) at will which is equivalent to todays endorsement of a Nike
products or writing eulogies for hire. He was proud of his penury and
worked at keeping his dignity, though it was hard to do during the time of
the "ghaddar".
His poetry rose above an beyond race, religion and bigotry. Ghalib was
poet for ALL races and ALL religions...
To focus in to the creeeks and crannies of the personal life of poets is
to try to find fault with diamonds
His life is but a testament to the history of his time. His literature is
a commentary on the art and culture of Northern India (Punjab, Kashmir and
the many provinces that constituted what is now called UP).
His poems have several levels. Those not familiar with Urdu may enjoy the
surface. Those who know the language can dechiper the true and profound
meanings of his words. He is immensly popular in the Hindi and Punjabi
belts of India and is held in very high esteem by those who understand
Urdu
His definition of love and of God are indeed unparalleled and a source of
inspiration for generations of poets. His dialogue with God is
fascinating. His poems are not replicas of famous European poets....rather
they are original works that not only provided life to the darbars but
also provided vivaciousness to the common man on the streets. Like the
Daffodils of Wordsworth the words of Ghalib are a JOY FOREVER.
His service to the languages of the subcontinent have indeed made many of
our languages so much richer. His letters are but classics, very enjoyable
indeed.
The ignorant and the bigoted cannot understand his works....bandar kiya
jannay adrak ka mazaa?
MoinA
> These folks who supported Ghalib are the very folks that created one of
> the finest civilizations on the planet.
>>These folks can keep this `finest civilization' to themselves.
>>No one else gives a damn.
WELL no one is a slight exaggeration...AH will surely be
disappointed......this is a big year for Ghalib......THE INTERNATIONAL
BICENNTENNIAL IS BEING CELEBRATED in many nations.....both Pakistan and
India plan to have postage stamps, mushairas, and many many poets have
already written poems on Ghalib, and ALMOST all singers in South Asia
(irregardless of race, religion and caste) will be singing Ghalib poems
and ghazalls... PTV, Radio Pakistan BBC-Urdu service, VOA, Doordarshan and
Z-TV etc. will be arranging big bashes.
To enjoy Urdu/Punjabi peotry which is a rich part of our heritage, we must
learn to enjoy our literature...and we for sure cannot judge everyone on
someones yardstick of Islamic Muslimness. If we are to enjoy Faiz and Josh
Malaihabadi and Jagjit Singh we have to look at their works not their
MUSLIMNESS or lack thereof.
He in fact refused to write QASEEDAS (eulogies for the monarch and other
Denial of our Mughal heritage....when "INDIA" was the richest place on
earth...denial of the the birthplace of Sufism...and ignorance of FACE
evidence of great arts, architecture and learning is but a CLEAR SIGN of
bigotry ...perhpas ignorance IS BLISS
......................as always, this person cannot even enjoy poetry or
literature.....let him stew in his bigoted juices as I always say!!!
MoinA
> the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
> Gardens, the paintings, the translation of the Gita, the trasnlation of
> the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism that
> spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
> nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
> subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their
leagacy..................
>
>>You can keep that legacy,
What can I say...repudiation of everything that good in Pakistan and India
is but a feat that only AH can do.............. ................ ignorance
is bliss for some! Anyone reading this knows the value AH puts on arts,
literature, architecture, Sufisim (The highest form of Islamic learning),
religion, tolerance, and in general what we in a civilized society call
CULTURE.......................
MoinA
> legacy of hirams,
>tawaeef-khanas and what not.
I am sure the OLDEST profession on the planet has existed for as long as
man and woman have been around
.......................................................................the
Mughal era (THE CULTURAL APOGEE OF OUR CIVILIZATION) did create the
profession...though I could be wrong, and the term "oldest profession" is
a misnomer....though I do remember that "they" wer around the time of
Sindbad, and BEFORE Clumbus invaded America etc etc (BEFORE THE MUGHALS
ever made India their own home).....in fact prostitutions is mentioned in
the Quran, Torah, Bible and Hindu scritptures...well before the Mughals
gailani
On 26 Apr 1997 14:52:35 -0700,
nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Naufal A. Khan) wrote:
>=In article <335D80...@ibm.net>, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
>=:
>=:Sir Ghalib was the biggest patron of the rundis
>=
>=Is that why you call him 'Sir' (pun whole-heartedly intended) ?
>=Naufal.
you son of a gun Naufal, you made me laugh,
gailani
J Raza
MoinA wrote:
>
> > These folks who supported Ghalib are the very folks that created one of
> > the finest civilizations on the planet.
>
> >>These folks can keep this `finest civilization' to themselves.
> >>No one else gives a damn.
>
> WELL no one is a slight exaggeration...AH will surely be
> disappointed......this is a big year for Ghalib......THE INTERNATIONAL
> BICENNTENNIAL IS BEING CELEBRATED in many nations.....both Pakistan and
> India plan to have postage stamps, mushairas, and many many poets have
> already written poems on Ghalib, and ALMOST all singers in South Asia
> (irregardless of race, religion and caste) will be singing Ghalib poems
> and ghazalls... PTV, Radio Pakistan BBC-Urdu service, VOA, Doordarshan and
> Z-TV etc. will be arranging big bashes.
>
> To enjoy Urdu/Punjabi peotry which is a rich part of our heritage, we must
> learn to enjoy our literature...and we for sure cannot judge everyone on
> someones yardstick of Islamic Muslimness. If we are to enjoy Faiz and Josh
> Malaihabadi and Jagjit Singh we have to look at their works not their
> MUSLIMNESS or lack thereof.
>
What exactly is an "Urdu/Punjabi" song? And whose heritage is
Urdu/Hindi?
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how a Kashmiri, Pakhtun or
Punjabi
can claim the literature of the decadent Turkish aristocray of Hindustan
(UP/CP)
as his own.
> He in fact refused to write QASEEDAS (eulogies for the monarch and other
> royalty) at will which is equivalent to todays endorsement of a Nike
> products or writing eulogies for hire. He was proud of his penury and
> worked at keeping his dignity, though it was hard to do during the time of
> the "ghaddar".
>
> His poetry rose above an beyond race, religion and bigotry. Ghalib was
> poet for ALL races and ALL religions...
>
> To focus in to the creeeks and crannies of the personal life of poets is
> to try to find fault with diamonds
>
> His life is but a testament to the history of his time. His literature is
> a commentary on the art and culture of Northern India (Punjab, Kashmir and
> the many provinces that constituted what is now called UP).
>
What a ridiclous claim!! Kashmir and Punjab have their own poets who
lived in a totally independent cultural millieu from the perverts of
Lucknow.
Ghalibs work is as relevent to Kashmir as Keats!
> His poems have several levels. Those not familiar with Urdu may enjoy the
> surface. Those who know the language can dechiper the true and profound
> meanings of his words. He is immensly popular in the Hindi and Punjabi
> belts of India and is held in very high esteem by those who understand
> Urdu
>
> His definition of love and of God are indeed unparalleled and a source of
> inspiration for generations of poets. His dialogue with God is
> fascinating. His poems are not replicas of famous European poets....rather
> they are original works that not only provided life to the darbars but
> also provided vivaciousness to the common man on the streets. Like the
> Daffodils of Wordsworth the words of Ghalib are a JOY FOREVER.
>
> His service to the languages of the subcontinent have indeed made many of
> our languages so much richer. His letters are but classics, very enjoyable
> indeed.
>
> Denial of our Mughal heritage....when "INDIA" was the richest place on
> earth...denial of the the birthplace of Sufism...and ignorance of FACE
> evidence of great arts, architecture and learning is but a CLEAR SIGN of
> bigotry ...perhpas ignorance IS BLISS
>
It seems that cultural hegemony is a characteristic of all Gangoos,
whether Hindu
or Muslim.
> ......................as always, this person cannot even enjoy poetry or
> literature.....let him stew in his bigoted juices as I always say!!!
>
Nusrat Rizvi
In <3362e232...@news.pathcom.com> ma...@agniPath.com (madan lal)
writes:
rizvi then go friend with gang. i am supporting ammeer hassan to fight
mahajirs.
Listen Madan Lal, Dumb Dugga, only person Ameer Hassan wants in his
camp are fellow Punjabis who are Muslims.
May be you qualify for the first but are you circumcised too.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
PERVAIZ RIZVI
madan lal wrote:
>
> On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:16 +0500, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >madan lal wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:50:07 GMT, Ameer Hassan <aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> >Only a piece of shit like NR will claim to know `Urdu'
> >> >(pushtinee style) and Urdu poetry (including Ghalib) and yet not
> >> >know what a `Tarkeeb' is.
> >> >
> >>
> >> you tell him brother.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Again with the royal we, boy you sure are taking on paindoo habits.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >The bloody piece of shit forgot that this `we' business belongs to
> >> >his pushtinee taweef culture.
> >> >
> >> yes.
> >> madan lal
> >
> >OYAE HINDU KHUT O MAL TO BAZ NAHEE AYEGA
>
> oye, fittay munh tera, khotay da puttar. if you want to support nusrat rizvi
> then go friend with gang. i am supporting ammeer hassan to fight mahajirs.
yOU you havent read my post I a supporter of nr that old foggy
but yar if at all you had to disguise your self for reason you know
yourself
than were you left with only a hindu identity only
Zahra_...@msn.com
In article <3362ac78...@snews.zippo.com>,
Sir(Mr. Gailani):
Please do not pamper His Excellence! If you have not noticed then please
do so as he has to put in brackets every time he thinks he is being
humorous. That is so silly. Why cannot he let people judge and then
question, if thay have any doubts.
I am quiet shocked at his Pun Intended, Pun Not Intended definitions.
Senor SR, please help your fellow Maritian! The rest are too busy in
themselves, you are the one speaketh for the chauvinists...:-) You
should find a solution for their mental health...:-)
Regards,
ZJ
Asim Malik
============================================================================
Don't mean to interrupt the facinating exchange of gaali-galoach,
but I thought I should post the following as it seems appropriate
under this subject. I saved this a few years ago from this newsgroup.
Please keep all the credits.
- Asim
============================================================================
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From: hwh...@umiami.ir.miami.edu
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Subject: Collection of Ghalib' Ghazals
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From: PRAKASH%ANLPHY...@ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV
Subject: Ghalib's ghazals - Complete document.
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Hello fellow netters,
Here is a excellent work of Ghalib's Ghazals compiled by Mr. Prakash.
I am posting the same for the benefit of the netters.
Let's congratulate Mr. Prakash on the completion of this work which has taken
considerable effort and time of his. I sincerely hope that many people will
like it and I wish to congratulate and thank Mr. Prakash for his effort.
Thanx,
Waheed.
..............................................................................
Dear Waheed,
Following is the completed compilation of Ghalib's ghazals. It took
me a lot longer than I anticipated to complete the work. I will very
much appreciate if you can post it on the nets on my behalf so that
other ghazals lovers can enjoy it. I must thank you for your coopera-
tion during the preparation of this document.
With Regards,
-Prakash
.............................................................................
Dear Friends,
Here is a compilation of about 35 famous ghazals of Ghalib,
along with the meanings of difficult urdu words. I have also
included a short version of Ghalib's life story, provided to
me by Rajiv Chakravarti of University of Texas. I would like
to thank Rajiv for his suggestions and comments during the
transliteration of the ghazals.
haiN aur bhee duniya meiN suKHanwar bohot achche
kehte haiN ki GHalib ka hai andaaz-e-bayaaN aur
Enjoy !
-Prakash
...................................................................
P.N.Prakash e-mail : Pra...@anlphy.phy.anl.gov
Physics Division,
Argonne National Lab,
Argonne, IL 60439
...................................................................
GHALIB - INTRODUCTION
Mirza Asadullah Beg Khan -- known to posterity as Ghalib, a
`nom de plume' he adopted in the tradition of all clasical Urdu poets,
was born in the city of Agra, of parents with Turkish aristocratic
ancestry, probably on December 27th, 1797. As to the precise date,
Imtiyaz Ali Arshi has conjectured, on the basis of Ghalib's horoscope,
that the poet might have been born a month later, in January 1798.
Both his father and uncle died while he was still young, and
he spent a good part of his early boyhood with his mother's family.
This, of course, began a psychology of ambivalences for him. On the
one hand, he grew up relatively free of any oppressive dominance by
adult, male-dominant figures. This, it seems to me, accounts for at
least some of the independent spirit he showed from very early child-
hood. On the other hand, this placed him in the humiliating situation
of being socially and economically dependent on maternal grandparents,
giving him, one can surmise, a sense that whatever worldly goods he
received were a matter of charity and not legitimately his. His pre-
occupation in later life with finding secure, legitimate, and
comfortable means of livelihood can be perhaps at least partially
understood in terms of this early uncertainity.
The question of Ghalib's early education has often confused
Urdu scholars. Although any record of his formal education that might
exist is extremely scanty, it is also true that Ghalib's circle of
friends in Delhi included some of the most eminent minds of his time.
There is, finally, irrevocably, the evidence of his writings, in verse
as well as in prose, which are distinguished not only by creative
excellence but also by the great knowledge of philosophy, ethics,
theology, classical literature, grammar, and history that they reflect.
I think it is reasonable to believe that Mulla Abdussamad Harmuzd
-- the man who was supposedly Ghalib's tutor, whom Ghalib mentions at
times with great affection and respect, but whose very existence he
denies -- was, in fact, a real person and an actual tutor of Ghalib
when Ghalib was a young boy in Agra. Harmuzd was a Zoroastrian from
Iran, converted to Islam, and a devoted scholar of literature,
language, and religions. He lived in anonymity in Agra while tutoring
Ghalib, among others.
In or around 1810, two events of great importance occured in
Ghalib's life: he was married to a well-to-do, educated family of
nobles, and he left for Delhi. One must remember that Ghalib was only
thirteen at the time. It is impossible to say when Ghalib started
writing poetry. Perhaps it was as early as his seventh or eight years.
On the other hand, there is evidence that most of what we know as his
complete works were substantially completed by 1816, when he was 19
years old, and six years after he first came to Delhi. We are obviously
dealing with a man whose maturation was both early and rapid. We can
safely conjecture that the migration from Agra, which had once been a
capital but was now one of the many important but declining cities, to
Delhi, its grandeur kept intact by the existence of the moghul court,
was an important event in the life of this thirteen year old, newly
married poet who desparately needed material security, who was
beginning to take his career in letters seriously, and who was soon to
be recognized as a genius, if not by the court, at least some of his
most important comtemporaries. As for the marriage, in the predomin-
antly male-oriented society of Muslim India no one could expect Ghalib
to take that event terribly seriously, and he didn't. The period did,
however mark the beginnings of concern with material advancement that
was to obsess him for the rest of his life.
In Delhi Ghalib lived a life of comfort, though he did not
find immediate or great success. He wrote first in a style at once
detached, obscure , and pedantic, but soon thereafter he adopted the
fastidious, personal, complexly moral idiom which we now know as his
mature style. It is astonishing that he should have gone from sheer
precocity to the extremes of verbal ingenuity and obscurity, to a
style which, next to Meer's, is the most important and comprehensive
styles of the ghazal in the Urdu language before he was even twenty.
The course of his life from 1821 onward is easier to trace.
His interest began to shift decisively away from Urdu poetry to Persian
during the 1820's, and he soon abandoned writing in Urdu almost
altogether, except whenever a new edition of his works was forthcoming
and he was inclined to make changes, deletions, or additions to his
already existing opus. This remained the pattern of his work until
1847, the year in which he gained direct access to the Moghul court.
I think it is safe to say that throughout these years Ghalib was mainly
occupied with the composition of the Persian verse, with the
preparation of occasional editions of his Urdu works which remained
essentially the same in content, and with various intricate and
exhausting proceedings undertaken with a view to improving his financial
situation, these last consisting mainly of petitions to patrons and
government, including the British. Although very different in style
and procedure, Ghalib's obsession with material means, and the
accompanying sense of personal insecurity which seems to threaten the
very basis of selfhood, reminds one of Bauldeaire. There is, through
the years, the same self-absorption, the same overpowering sense of
terror which comes from the necessities of one's own creativity and
intelligence, the same illusion -- never really believed viscerrally
-- that if one could be released from need one could perhaps become
a better artist. There is same flood of complaints, and finally the
same triumph of a self which is at once morbid, elegant, highly
creative, and almost doomed to realize the terms not only of its
desperation but also its distinction.
Ghalib was never really a part of the court except in its very
last years, and even then with ambivalence on both sides . There was
no love lost between Ghalib himself and Zauq, the king's tutor in the
writing of poetry; and if their mutual dislike was not often openly
expressed, it was a matter of prudence only. There is reason to believe
that Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last Moghul king, and himself a poet of
considerable merit, did not much care for Ghalib's style of poetry or
life. There is also reason to believe that Ghalib not only regarded
his own necessary subservient conduct in relation to the king as
humiliating but he also considered the Moghul court as a redundant
institution. Nor was he well-known for admiring the king's verses.
However, after Zauq's death Ghalib did gain an appiontment as the
king's advisor on matters of versifiaction. He was also appointed,
by royal order, to write the official history of the Moghul dynasty, a
project which was to be titled "Partavistan" and to fill two volumes.
The one volume "Mehr-e-NeemRoz", which Ghalib completed is an
indifferent work, and the second volume was never completed, supposedly
because of the great disturbances caused by the Revolt of 1857 and the
consequent termination of the Moghul rule. Possibly Ghalib's own lack
of interest in the later Moghul kings had something to do with it.
The only favouarble result of his connection with the court
between 1847 and 1857 was that he resumed writing in Urdu with a
frequency not experienced since the early 1820's. Many of these new
poems are not panegyrics, or occasional verses to celebrate this or
that. He did, however, write many ghazals which are of the same
excellence and temper as his early great work. Infact, it is astonis-
hing that a man who had more or less given up writing in Urdu thirty
years before should, in a totally different time and circumstance,
produce work that is, on the whole, neither worse nor better than his
earlier work. One wonders just how many great poems were permanently
lost to Urdu when Ghalib chose to turn to Persian instead.
In its material dimensions, Ghalib's life never really took
root and remained always curiously unfinished. In a society where
almost everybody seems to have a house of his own, Ghalib never had
one and always rented one or accepted the use of one from a patron.
He never had books of his own, usually reading borrowed ones. He had
no children; the ones he had, died in infancy, and he later adopted
the two children of Arif, his wife's nephew who died young in 1852.
Ghalib's one wish, perhaps as strong as the wish to be a great poet,
that he should have a regular, secure income, never materialized. His
brother Yusuf, went mad in 1826, and died, still mad, in that year of
all misfortunes, 1857. His relations with his wife were, at best,
tentative, obscure and indifferent. Given the social structure of
mid-nineteenth-century Muslim India, it is, of course, inconceivable
that *any* marriage could have even begun to satisfy the moral and
intellectual intensities that Ghalib required from his relationships;
given that social order, however, he could not conceive that his
marriage could serve that function. And one has to confront the fact
that the child never died who, deprived of the security of having a
father in a male-oriented society, had had looked for material but
also moral certainities -- not certitudes, but certainities, something
that he can stake his life on. So, when reading his poetry it must be
remembered that it is the poetry of more than usually vulnerable
existence.
It is difficult to say precisely what Ghalib's attitude was
toward the British conquest of India. The evidence is not only
contradictory but also incomplete. First of all, one has to realize
that nationalism as we know it today was simply non-existent in
nineteenth-century India. Second --one has to remember -- no matter
how offensive it is to some -- that even prior to the British, India
had a long history of invaders who created empires which were eventu-
ally considered legitimate. The Moghuls themselves were such invaders.
Given these two facts, it would be unreasonable to expect Ghalib to
have a clear ideological response to the British invasion. There is
also evidence, quite clearly deducible from his letters, that Ghalib
was aware, on the one hand, of the redundancy, the intrigues, the
sheer poverty of sophistication and intellectual potential, and the
lack of humane responses from the Moghul court, and, on the other, of
the powers of rationalism and scientific progress of the West.
Ghalib had many attitudes toward the British, most of them
complicated and quite contradictory. His diary of 1857, the
"Dast-Ambooh" is a pro-British document, criticizing the British here
and there for excessively harsh rule but expressing, on the whole,
horror at the tactics of the resistance forces. His letters, however,
are some of the most graphic and vivid accounts of British violence
that we possess. We also know that "Dast-Ambooh" was always meant to
be a document that Ghalib would make public, not only to the Indian
Press but specifically to the British authorities. And he even wanted
to send a copy of it to Queen Victoria. His letters, are to the contr-
ary, written to people he trusted very much, people who were his
friends and would not divulge their contents to the British authori-
ties. As Imtiyaz Ali Arshi has shown (at least to my satisfaction),
whenever Ghalib feared the intimate, anti-British contents of his
letters might not remain private, he requested their destruction, as
he did in th case of the Nawab of Rampur. I think it is reasonable to
conjecture that the diary, the "Dast-Ambooh", is a document put
together by a frightened man who was looking for avenues of safety and
forging versions of his own experience in order to please his oppr-
essors, whereas the letters, those private documents of one-to-one
intimacy, are more real in the expression of what Ghalib was in fact
feeling at the time. And what he was feeling, according to the letters,
was horror at the wholesale violence practised by the British.
Yet, matters are not so simple as that either. We cannot explain
things away in terms of altogether honest letters and an altogether
dishonest diary. Human and intellectual responses are more complex. The
fact that Ghalib, like many other Indians at the time, admired British,
and therfore Western, rationalism as expressed in constitutional law,
city planning and more. His trip to Calcutta (1828-29) had done much
to convince him of the immediate values of Western pragmatism. This
immensely curious and human man from the narrow streets of a decaying
Delhi, had suddenly been flung into the broad, well-planned avenues of
1828 Calcutta -- from the aging Moghul capital to the new, prosperous
and clean capital of the rising British power, and , given the preco-
ciousness of his mind, he had not only walked on clean streets, but
had also asked the fundamental questions about the sort of mind that
planned that sort of city. In short, he was impressed by much that was
British.
In Calcutta he saw cleanliness, good city planning, prosperity.
He was fascinated by the quality of the Western mind which was rational
and could conceive of constitutional government, republicanism,
skepticism. The Western mind was attractive particularly to one who,
although fully imbued with his feudal and Muslim background, was also
attracted by wider intelligence like the one that Western scientific
thought offered: good rationalism promised to be good government. The
sense that this very rationalism, the very mind that had planned the
first modern city in India, was also in the service of a brutral and
brutalizing mercantile ethic which was to produce not a humane society
but an empire, began to come to Ghalib only when the onslaught of 1857
caught up with the Delhi of his own friends. Whatever admiration he
had ever felt for the British was seriously brought into question by
the events of that year, more particularly by the merciless-ness of
the British in their dealings with those who participated in or
sympathized with the Revolt. This is no place to go into the details
of the massacre; I will refer here only to the recent researches of
Dr. Ashraf (Ashraf, K.M., "Ghalib & The Revolt of 1857", in Rebellion
1857, ed., P.C. Joshi, 1957), in India, which prove that at least
27,000 persons were hanged during the summer of that one year, and
Ghalib witnessed it all. It was obviously impossible for him to
reconcile this conduct with whatever humanity and progressive ideals
he had ever expected the Briish to have possessed. His letters tell
of his terrible dissatisfaction.
Ghalib's ambivalence toward the British possibly represents a
characteristic dilemma of the Indian --- indeed, the Asian -- people.
Whereas they are fascinated by the liberalism of the Western mind and
virtually seduced by the possibility that Western science and technology
might be the answer to poverty and other problems of their material
existence, they feel a very deep repugnance for forms and intensities of
violence which are also peculiarly Western. Ghalib was probably not as
fully aware of his dilemma as the intellectuals of today might be; to
assign such awareness to a mid-nineteenth-century mind would be to
violate it by denying the very terms -- which means limitations --, as
well -- of its existence. His bewilderment at the extent of the
destruction caused by the very people of whose humanity he had been
convinced can , however, be understood in terms of this basic
ambivalence.
The years between 1857 and 1869 were neither happy nor very
eventful ones for Ghalib. During the revolt itself, Ghalib remained
pretty much confined to his house, undoubtedly frightened by the
wholesale masacres in the city. Many of his friends were hanged,
deprived of their fortunes, exiled from the city, or detained in jails.
By October 1858, he had completed his diary of the Revolt, the
"Dast-Ambooh", published it, and presented copies of it to the British
authorities, mainly with the purpose of proving that he had not
supported the insurrections. Although his life and immediate possesions
were spared, little value was attached to his writings; he was flatly
told that he was still suspected of having had loyalties toward the
Moghul king. During the ensuing years, his main source of income
continued to be the stipend he got from the Nawab of Rampur.
"Ud-i-Hindi", the first collection of his letters, was published in
October 1868. Ghalib died a few months later, on February 15th, 1869.
............................................................................
GHALIB - GHAZALS
............................................................................
A note on pronunciation
-----------------------
(a) Vowel pronunciation key.
'a' as 'u' in cut
'aa' as 'a' in car
'i' as 'i' in fit
'ee' as 'ee' in feel
'u' as 'u' in put
'oo' as 'oo' in pool
'e' as 'e' in bed
'ai' as 'ei' in neighbour
'o' as 'o' in mode
'au' as 'ow' in how
(b) Words ending with an 'a' should be pronounced as 'a' in 'car'.
Examples : 'kya' = what
'nateeja' = result
(c) Guttural sounds (capital letters) :
Examples : 'GH' as in 'GHam' = sorrow
'KH' as in 'KHayaal' = thought
(d) Use of 'N' for nasal sounds :
Examples : 'maiN' = me
'meiN' = in
'aasmaaN' = sky
(e) Note the distinction in usage between :
(i) 'i' and 'ee'
Examples : 'nigaah' = sight
'nishaan' = mark/sign
'teer' = arrow
'hakeem' = physician/doctor
(ii) 'k' and 'q'
Examples : 'shauq' = fondness/desire
'qaabil' = worthy
'kamar' = waist
'KHaak' = dust/ashes
(iii) small and capital letters
Examples : 't' as 't' in with
'T' as 't' in metal
...........................................................................
1. har ek baat pe kehte ho tum ke 'too kya hai' ?
tumheeN kaho ke yeh andaaz-e-guftgoo kya hai ?
[ guftgoo = conversation ]
2. na shole meiN yeh karishma na barq meiN yeh ada
koee batao ki woh shoKH-e-tund_KHoo kya hai ?
[ barq = lightning, tund = sharp/angry, KHoo = behavior ]
3. yeh rashk hai ki wo hota hai ham_suKHan tumse
wagarna KHauf-e-bad_aamozi-e-adoo kya hai ?
[ rashk = jealousy, ham_suKHan = to speak together/to agree,
KHauf = fear, bad = bad/wicked, aamozee = education/teaching,
adoo = enemy ]
4. chipak raha hai badan par lahoo se pairaahan
hamaaree jeb ko ab haajat-e-rafoo kya hai ?
[ pairaahan = shirt/robe/cloth, haajat = need/necessity,
rafoo = mending/darning ]
5. jalaa hai jicm jahaaN dil bhee jal gaya hoga
kuredate ho jo ab raakh, justjoo kya hai ?
[ justjoo = desire ]
6. ragoN meiN dauDte firne ke ham naheeN qaayal
jab aaNkh hee se na Tapka to fir lahoo kya hai ?
7. woh cheez jiske liye hamko ho bahisht azeez
siwaay baada-e-gul_faam-e-mushkaboo kya hai ?
[ bahisht (or bihisht, both are correct) = heaven, baada = wine,
gul_faam = delicate and fragrant like flowers, mushkaboo = like
the smell of musk ]
8. piyooN sharaab agar KHum bhee dekh looN do chaar
yeh sheesha-o-qadah-o-kooza-o-suboo kya hai ?
[ KHum = wine barrel, qadah = goblet, kooza/suboo = wine pitcher ]
9. rahee na taaqat-e-guftaar, aur agar ho bhee
to kis ummeed pe kahiye ke aarzoo kya hai ?
[ guftaar = speech/discourse ]
10. huaa hai shaah ka musaahib, fire hai itaraata
wagarna shehar meiN 'GHalib' kee aabroo kya hai ?
[ musaahib = comrade/associate ]
............................................................................
1. husn-e-mah, garche ba_haNgaam-e-kamaal achcha hai
us'se mera mah-e-KHursheed-e-jamaal achcha hai
[ mah = moon, KHursheed = sun, jamaal = beauty ]
2. bosa dete naheeN aur dil pe hai har lahja nigaah
jee meiN kehte haiN, muft aaye to maal achcha hai
[ bosa = kiss ]
3. aur baazaar se le aaye agar TooT gaya
saaGHar-e-jam se mera jaam-e-sifaal achcha hai
[ saaGHar-e-jam = Badshah Jamshed's cup, jaam-e-sifaal = clay cup ]
4. be_talab daiN to maza usme siwa milta hai
woh gada jisko na ho KHoo-e-sawaal achcha hai
[ be_talab = without any enquiry, gada = beggar, KHoo = habit ]
5. unke dekhe se jo aa jaatee hai muNh par raunaq
woh samajhte haiN ke beemaar ka haal achcha hai
6. dekhiye paate haiN ushshaaq butoN se kya faiz ?
ik birahaman ne kaha hai, ke yeh saal achcha hai
[ ushshaaq = lovers, faiz = profit ]
7. ham_suKHan teshe ne farhaad ko sheereeN se kiya
jis tarah ka bhee kisee meiN ho kamaal achcha hai
[ ham_suKHan = together, tesha = axe ]
8. qatra dariya meiN jo mil jaaye to dariya ho jaaye
kaam achchaa hai woh, jiska ma'aal achcha hai
[ ma'aal = result ]
9. KHijr SultaaN ko rakhe KHaaliq-e-akbar sar_sabz
shaah ke baaGH meiN yeh taaza nihaal achcha hai
[ KHijr SultaaN = one of Badshah Zafar's son, KHaaliq = The Creator/
God, akbar = greatest, sar_sabz = fertile, nihaal = tree ]
10. hamko ma'aloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin
dil ke KHush rakhne ko, 'GHalib' yeh KHayaal achcha hai
...........................................................................
1. GHair leiN mehfil meiN bose jaam ke
ham rahaiN yooN tishna_lab paiGHaam ke
[ bosa = kiss, tishna = thirsty ]
2. KHastagee ka tumse kya shikwa ki ye
hathkanDe haiN charKH-e-neelee_faam ke
[ KHastagee = injury/sickness, shikawa = complaint,
hathkanDe = tactics, charKH = sky, neelee_faam = blue colour/
complexion ]
3. KHat likhenge garche matlab kuchch na ho
ham to aashiq haiN tumhaare naam ke
4. raat pee zamzam pe mai aur subh_dam
dhoye dhab'be jaam-e-'eharaam ke
[ zamzam = a well in Kaba whose water is considered holy,
mai = wine, subh_dam = at dawn, 'eharaam = dress for 'haj' ]
5. dil ko aaNkhoN ne fasaaya kya magar
ye bhee halqe haiN tumhaare daam ke
[ halqa = ring/circle, daam = net/trap ]
6. shaah ke haiN GHusl-e-sehat ko KHabar
dekhiye kab din fireiN hammaam ke
[ GHusl = bath, sehat = health, hammaam = a hot bath where a masseur
gives massage and bath ]
7. ishq ne 'GHalib' nikamma kar diya
warna ham bhee aadmee the; kaam ke
.............................................................................
1. naqsh fariyaadee hai kiskee shoKHee-e-tehreer ka
kaaGHazee hai pairhan har paikar-e-tasweer ka
[ naqsh = copy/print, fariyaad = complaint, tehreer = hand
writing, kaaGHazee = delicate, pairhan = dress,
paikar = appearance ]
2. kaave-kaave saKHt_jaanee haay tanhaaee na pooch
subah karna shaam ka laana hai joo-e-sheer ka
[ kaave-kaave = hard work, saKHt_jaanee = tough life,
joo = canal/stream, sheer = milk, joo-e-sheer = to create a
canal of milk, here means to perform an impossible task ]
3. jazba-e-be_iKHtiyaar-e-shauq dekha chaahiye
seena-e-shamsheer se baahar hai dam shamsheer ka
[ iKHtiyaar = authority/power, shamsheer = sword ]
4. aagahee daam-e-shuneedan jis qadar chaahe bichaaye
mudda'a 'anqa hai apne aalam-e-taqreer ka
[ aagahee = knowledge/intution, daam = net/trap,
shuneed = conversation, 'anqa = rare, aalam = world/universe,
taqreer = speech/discourse ]
5. bus ke hooN 'GHalib' aseeree meiN bhee aatish zer-e-pa
moo-e-aatish_deeda hai halqa meree zanjeer ka
[ aseeree = imprisonment/captivity, zer-e-pa = under the feet,
moo = hair, aatish_deeda = roasted on fire, halqa = ring/circle ]
............................................................................
1. kabhee nekee bhee uske jee meiN gar aa jaaye hai mujhse
jafaayeN karke apnee yaad sharma jaaye hai mujhse
[ jafaayeN = opression/tyranny of a beloved ]
2. KHudaaya ! jazbaa-e-dil kee magar taaseer ulTee hai
ki jitna khiNtchataa hooN aur khiNtchtaa jaaye hai mujhse
[ jazbaa-e-dil = emotions, taaseer = impression ]
3. woh bad_KHoo aur meree daastan-e-ishq tulaanee
ibaarat muKHtasar, qaasid bhee ghabra jaaye hai mujhse
[ bad_KHoo = bad habits, tulaanee = long, ibaarat = diction/
admonishing, muKHtasar = concise, qaasid = messenger ]
4. udhar woh bad_GHumaanee hai, idhar yeh naatavaanee hai
na poocha jaaye hai us'se, na bola jaaye hai mujhse
[ badGHumaanee = suspicion, naatavaanee = weakness ]
5. sambhalne de mujhe 'ei na_ummidee kya qayaamat hai
ki daamaan-e-KHayaal-e-yaar chooTa jaaye hai mujhse
6. takalluf bartaraf nazzaaragee meiN bhee sahi, lekin
woh dekha jaaye, kab ye zulm dekha jaaye hai mujhse
[ taqalluf = hesitation/formality, bartaraf = suspend ]
7. hue haiN paaNv hee pehle nabard-e-ishq meiN zaKHmee
na bhaaga jaaye hai mujhse, na Thehra jaaye hai mujhse
[ nabard-e-ishaq = struggle in love ]
8. qayaamat hai ke howe muddaee ka ham_safar 'GHalib'
woh kaafir, jo KHuda ko bhee na sauNpa jaaye hai mujhse
.......................................................................
1. dil se teree nigaah jigar tak utar gayee
donoN ko ik adaa meiN razaamand kar gayee
2. shaq ho gaya hai seena, KHushee lazzat-e-firaaq
takleef-e-pardaadaari-e-zaKHm-e-jigar gayee
[ shaq = crack/split, firaaq = separation,
pardaadaaree = to hide, esp. fault ]
3. woh baada-e-shabaana kee sar mastiyaaN kahaaN ?
uThiye bas ab ki lazzat-e-KHwaab-e-sahar gayee
[ baada = wine, shabaana = night, sahar = morning ]
4. uDtee fire hai KHaak meree koo-e-yaar se
baare ab 'ei hawa, hawas-e- baal-o-par gayee
[ baare = at last, koo-e-yaar = lover's street ]
5. dekhooN to dil_farebi-e-andaaz-e-naqsh-e-pa
mauj-e-KHiraam-e-yaar bhee kya gul katar gayee
[ dil_fareb = heart alluring, naqsh = copy/print, pa = leg,
mauj = wave/enjoyment, KHiraam = speed ]
6. har bulhawas ne husn_parastee shiaar kee
ab aabru-e-sheva-e-'ehl-e-nazar gayee
[ bulhawas = greedy, husn_parastee = to appreciate beauty,
shiaar = habit, aabru = respect/honour, sheva = manner/habit ]
7. nazzaare ne bhee kaam kiya waaN naqaab ka
mastee se har nigaah tere ruKH par bikhar gayee
8. farda-o-dee ka tafarqa yak baar mit gaya
kal tum gaye ke ham pe qayaamat guzar gayee
[ farda = yesterday, dee = tomorrow, tafarqa = difference ]
9. maara zamaane ne 'Asadullah KHaaN' tumhe
woh walwale kahaaN, woh jawaanee kidhar gayee ?
[ walwale = enthusiasm ]
......................................................................
1. miltee hai KHoo-e-yaar se naar iltihaab meiN
kaafir hooN gar na miltee ho raahat 'azaab meiN
[ KHoo-e-yaar = lover's nature/behavior/habit, naar = fire,
iltihaab = flame, 'azaab = sorrow ]
2. kab se hooN, kya bataaooN jahaan-e-KHaraab meiN ?
shab haaye hijr ko bhee rakhooN gar hisaab meiN
[ jahaan-e-KHaraab = world of problems, shab = night,
hijr = separation ]
3. taa fir na intezaar meiN neeNd aaye 'umr bhar
aane ka 'ahad kar gaye aaye jo KHwaab meiN
[ taa = so that, 'ahad = promise ]
4. qaasid ke aate-aate KHat ik aur likh rakhooN
maiN jaanta hooN jo woh likhenge jawaab meiN
[ qaasid = messenger ]
5. mujh tak kab unkee bazm meiN aata tha daur-e-jaam
saaqee ne kuchch mila na diya ho sharaab meiN
[ bazm = meeting/"mehafil", saaqee = bar tender ]
6. jo munkir-e-wafa ho fareb us pe kya chale ?
kyooN badGHumaaN hooN dost se dushman ke baab meiN ?
[ munkir-e-wafa = one who denies loyalty, fareb = illusion/fraud
badGHumaaN = suspicious, baab = company ]
7. maiN muztarib hooN wasl meiN KHauf-e-raqeeb se
Daala hai tumko weham ne kis pech-o-taab meiN
[ muztarib = anxious/disturbed, wasl = meeting with the lover,
KHauf = fear, raqeeb = opponent, pech-o-taab = predicament ]
8. mai aur haz'z-e-wasl, KHudaa_saaz baat hai
jaaN nazr denee bhool gaya iztiraab meiN
[ mai = bar, haz'z-e-wasl = joy of meeting, KHudaa_saaz = god's gift,
iztiraab = anxiety ]
9. hai tevaree chaDee huee andar naqaab ke
hai ik shikan paDee huee tarf-e-naqaab meiN
[ shikan = wrinkle, tarf = eyelid ]
10. laakhauN lagaav, ik churaana nigaah ka
laakhauN banaav, ik bigaaDna itaab meiN
[ itaab = anger ]
11. woh naala_dil meiN KHas ke baraabar jagah na paaye
jis naale se shigaaf paDe aaftaab meiN
[ naala_dil = crying heart, KHas = hay/grass, shigaaf = crack,
aaftaab = sun/face ]
12. woh sehar muddaa talbee meiN na kaam aaye
jis sehar se safina ravaaN ho saraab meiN
[ sehar = magic, muddaa talbee = fulfillment of a desire,
safina = boat, ravaaN = move, saraab = mirage ]
13. 'GHalib' chutee sharaab, par ab bhee kabhee-kabhee
peeta hooN roz-e-abr -o- shab-e-maahtaab meiN
[ abr = clouds, roz-e-abr = cloudy day, maahtaab = moon ]
.......................................................................
1. daayam paDa huaa tere dar par naheeN hooN maiN
KHaak 'eisee zindagee pe ke patthar naheeN hooN maiN
[ daayam = always ]
2. kyooN gardish-e-mudaam se ghabra na jaaye dil ?
insaan hooN, pyaala-o-saaGHar naheeN hooN maiN
[ gardish = bad time/luck, mudaam = always ]
3. yaarab ! zamaana mujhko miTaata hai kis liye ?
loh-e-jahaaN pe harf-e-muqarrar naheeN hooN maiN
[ harf = alphabet, muqarrar = again ]
4. had chaahiye saza meiN uqoobat ke waaste
aaKHir gunaahagaar hooN, kaafir naheeN hooN maiN
[ uqoobat = pain ]
5. kis waaste 'azeez naheeN jaante mujhe ?
laal-o-zumarrud-o-zar-o-gauhar naheeN hooN maiN
[ laal = a kind of gem, zumurrud = green colored gem,
zar = gold, gauhar = gem ]
6. rakhte ho tum qadam meree aaNkhoN se kya dareGH
rutbe meiN mehar-o-maah se kamtar naheeN hooN maiN
[ dareGH = regret/grief, mehar = sun, maah = moon ]
7. karte ho mujhko man'a-e-qadam_bos kis liye ?
kya aasmaan ke bhee baraabar naheeN hooN maiN ?
[ bosa = kiss ]
8. 'GHalib' wazifaa_KHwaar ho, do shaah ko duaa
woh din gaye ki kehte the;, "naukar naheeN hooN maiN"
[ wazifaa_KHawaar = pensioner ]
......................................................................
1. dil-e-naadaaN tujhe huaa kya hai ?
aaKHir is dard kee dawa kya hai
2. ham haiN mushtaaq aur woh bezaar
ya ilaahee ! yeh maajra kya hai ?
[ mushtaaq = interested, bezaar = displeased/sick of ]
3. maiN bhee muNh meiN zabaan rakhta hooN
kaash ! poocho ki "muddaa kya hai" ?
4. jab ki tujh bin naheeN koee maujood
fir ye hangaama, 'ei KHuda ! kya hai
5. ye paree chehara log kaise haiN ?
GHamza-o-ishwa-o-'adaa kya hai ?
[ paree chehara = angel faced, GHamza = amorous glance,
ishwa = coquetry ]
6. shikan-e-zulf-e-ambaree kyoN hai ?
nigah-e-chashm-e-soorma sa kya hai ?
[ shikan = wrinkel/fold, ambaree = fragrance, chashm = eye ]
7. sabja-o-gul kahaaN se aaye haiN ?
abr kya cheez hai, hawa kya hai ?
[ abr = clouds ]
8. hamko unse wafa ki hai ummeed
jo naheeN jaante wafa kya hai
9. "haaN bhala kar tera bhala hoga"
aur darvesh kee sada kya hai ?
[ darvesh = beggar, sada = voice ]
10. jaan tum par nisaar karta hooN
maiN naheeN jaanata duaa kya hai
11. maiNe maana ki kuchch naheeN 'GHalib'
muft haath aaye to bura kya hai ?
..........................................................................
1. woh aake KHwaab meiN taskeen-e-iztiraab to de
wale mujhe tapish-e-dil, mazaal-e-KHwaab to de
[ taskeen = satisfaction, iztiraab = anxiety, tapish = burn/passion,
mazaal = strength ]
2. kare hai qatl lagaawat meiN tera ro dena
teree tarah koee teGH-e-nigah ko aab to de
[ lagaawat = affection, tegh = sword, aab = cool ]
3. dikhaake jumbish-e-lab hee tamaam kar hamko
na de jo bosa, to muNh se kaheeN jawaab to de
[ jumbish = motion/vibration, bosa = kiss ]
4. pila de oak se saaqee jo hamse nafrat hai
pyaala gar naheeN deta na de, sharaab to de
[ oak = palm of the hand contracted so as to hold water ]
5. 'Asad' KHushee se mere haath paaNv phool gaye
kaha jo usne zara mere paaNv daab to de
..........................................................................
1. ghar jab bana liya hai tere dar par kahe baGHair
jaanega ab bhee too na mera ghar kahe baGHair
2. kehte haiN, jab rahee na mujhe taaqat-e-suKHan
jaanooN kisee ke dil ki maiN kyoNkar kahe baGHair
[ taaqat-e-suKHan = strength to speak ]
3. kaam us'se aa paDa hai ki jiska jahaan meiN
lewe na koee naam 'sitamgar' kahe baGHair
[ sitamgar = oppressor ]
4. jee meiN hee kuchch naheeN hai hamaare, wagarna ham
sar jaaye ya rahe, na rahaiN par kahe baGHair
5. choDooNga maiN na us but-e-kaafir ka poojna
choDe na KHalq go mujhe kaafir kahe baGHair
[ but = idol/lover, KHalq = world ]
6. maqsad hai naaz-o-GHamza, wale guftagoo meiN kaam
chalta naheeN hai, dashna-o-KHanjar kahe baGHair
[ GHamza = amorous glance, dashna = dagger ]
7. har chand ho mushaahit-e-haq ki guftagoo
bantee naheeN hai baada-o-saaGHar kahe baGHair
[ mushaahit = God, baada = wine ]
8. behra hooN maiN to chaahiye doona ho iltafaat
sunta naheeN hooN baat muqarrar kahe baGHair
[ iltafaat = mercy, muqarrar = again ]
9. 'GHalib' na kar huzoor meiN too baar-baar 'arz
zaahir hai tera haal sab un par kahe baGHair
...........................................................................
1. shauq har rang raqeeb-e-sar-o-saamaaN niklaa
qais tasveer ke parde meiN bhee uriyaaN niklaa
[ raqeeb = opponent, sar-o-saamaaN = with belongings,
qais = 'majanooN', uriyaaN = nude ]
2. zaKHm ne daad na dee, tangee-e-dil ki yaarab !
teer bhee seena-e-bismil se par_afshaaN niklaa
[ daad = justice, seena-e-bismil = wounded heart, par = wings,
afshaaN = rattle ]
3. boo-e-gul, naala-e-dil, dood-e-charaaGH-e-mehfil
jo teree bazm se nikla, so parishaaN niklaa
[ boo = fragrance, gul = flower, naalaa = cry, dood = smoke, esp.
from a lamp that's been extinguished ]
4. thee nau_aamoz_fana'a himmat-e-dushwaar_pasand
saKHt mushkil hai ki yah kaam bhee aasaaN nikla
[ nau_aamoz = beginner, dushwaar = difficult ]
5. dil meiN fir giryaaN ne ik shor uThaaya 'GHalib'
aah jo qatra na nikla tha, so toofaaN nikla
[ giryaaN = weeping, qatra = drop ]
...........................................................................
1. 'arz-e-niyaaz-e-ishq ke qaabil naheeN raha
jis dil pe naaz tha mujhe wo dil naheeN raha
[ niyaaz = desire/an offering ]
2. jaata hooN daaGH-e-hasarat-e-hastee liye hue
hooN shamma'a_kushta darKHur-e-mehfil naheeN raha
[ hastee = life/existence, shamma'a_kushta = extinguished lamp,
darKHur = worthy ]
3. marne ki 'ei dil aur hee tadabeer kar ki maiN
shaayaan-e-dast-o-baazu-e-qaatil naheeN rahaa
[ tadabeer = solution/remedy, shaayaan = worthy, dast = hand,
baazoo = shoulder ]
4. bararoo-e-shash jihat dar-e-aaina_baaz hai
yaaN imtiaz-e-naakis-o-qaamil naheeN rahaa
[ bararoo = in front, shash = six, jihat = direction,
imtiaz = distinction, naakis = cunning, qaamil = intelligent ]
5. waa kar diye haiN shauq ne band-e-naqaab-e-husn
GHair_az nigaah ab koee haayal naheeN raha
[ waa = open, GHair_az = other than, haayal = obstacle ]
6. go maiN raha, rahee na sitam haaye rozgaar
lekin tere KHayaal se GHaafil naheeN raha
[ sitam = oppression, GHaafil = unaware/careless ]
7. dil se hawa-e-kisht-e-wafa miT gayee ki waaN
haasil siwaay hasrat-e-haasil naheeN raha
8. bedaad-e-ishq se naheeN Darta magar 'Asad'
jis dil pe naaz tha mujhe wo dil naheeN raha
[ bedaad = injustice ]
............................................................................
1. na tha kuchch to KHuda tha, kuchch na hota to KHuda hota
duboya mujhko hone ne, na hota maiN to kya hota ?
2. huaa jab GHam se yooN behis to GHam kya sar ke kaTne ka
na hota gar juda tan se to zaanooN par dhaRa hota
[ behis = shocked/stunned, zaanooN = knee ]
3. huee muddat ke 'GHalib' mar gaya par yaad aata hai
wo har ek baat pe kehana, ke yooN hota to kya hota ?
[ muddat = duration/period ]
............................................................................
1. hazaaroN KHwahishaiN 'eisee ke har KHwahish pe dam nikle
bohot nikle mere armaaN lekin fir bhee kam nikle
2. Dare kyooN mera qaatil kya rahega uskee gardan par
wo KHooN, jo chashm-e-tar se 'umr bhar yooN dam_ba_dam nikle
[ KHooN = blood, chashm = eye, tar = wet, dam_ba_dam = continously ]
3. nikalna KHuld se aadam ka sunte aayaiN haiN lekin
bohot be_aabru hokar tere kooche se ham nikle
[ KHuld = heaven, be_aabaru = disgrace, koocha = street ]
4. bharam khul jaaye zaalim tere qaamat ki daraazee ka
agar is turra-e-pur_pech-o-KHam ka pech-o-KHam nikle
[ daraazee = length/delay, qaamat = stature, turra = an ornamental
tassel worn in the turban, pech-o-KHam = curls in the
hair/complexity ]
5. magar likhwaaye koee usko KHat, to hamse likhawaaye
huee subah aur ghar se kaan par rakhkar qalam nikle
6. huee is daur meiN mansoob mujhse baada_aashaamee
fir aaya wo zamaana, jo jahaaN se jaam-e-jam nikle
[ mansoob = association, baada_aashaamee = association with
drinking ]
7. huee jinse tavaqqo KHastagee kee daad paane kee
wo hamse bhee ziyaada KHasta-e-teGH-e-sitam nikle
[ tavaqqo = expectation, KHastagee = weakness, daad = justice,
KHasta = broken/sick/injured, teGH = sword, sitam = cruelity ]
8. mohabbat meiN naheeN hai farq jeene aur marne kaa
usee ko dekh kar jeete haiN jis kaafir pe dam nikle
9. zara kar jor seene par ki teer-e-pursitam nikle
jo wo nikle to dil nikle, jo dil nikle to dam nikle
10. KHuda ke waaste parda na kaabe se uThaa zaalim
kaheeN 'eisa na ho yaaN bhee wohee kaafir sanam nikle
11. kahaaN maiKHaane ka darwaaza 'GHalib' aur kahaaN waaiz
par itana jaante haiN kal wo jaata tha ke ham nikle
[ waaiz = preacher/advisor ]
.........................................................................
1. ye jo ham hijr meiN deewaar-o-dar ko dekhte haiN
kabhee saba ko kabhee naamaabar ko dekhte haiN
[ hijr = separation, dar = door, saba = wind,
naamaabar = messanger ]
2. woh aaye ghar meiN hamaare KHuda ki kudrat hai
kabhee ham unko, kabhee apane ghar ko dekhte haiN
3. nazar lage na kaheeN uske dast-o-baazoo ko
ye log kyoN mere zaKHm-e-jigar ko dekhtaiN haiN ?
[ dast-o-baazoo = hands & shoulders ]
4. tere jawaahir-e-tarf-e-kulah ko kya dekhaiN ?
ham auj-e-taal'a-e-laal-o-guhar ko dekhte haiN
[ jawaahir = jewels, tarf = golden belt, kulah = crown,
auj = height/position, taal'a = luck, laal-o-guhar = diamonds
& pearls ]
..........................................................................
1. koee din gar zindagaanee aur hai
apne jee meiN hamne THaanee aur hai
2. aatish-e-dozaKH meiN ye garmee kahaaN
soz-e-GHam haay nihaanee aur hai
[ dozaKH = hell, soz = passion/heat, nihaanee = internal/hidden ]
3. baarha dekhee haiN unkee ranjishaiN
par kuchch ab ke sar_giraanee aur hai
[ sar_giraanee = pride ]
4. deke KHat muNh dekhta hai naamabar
kuchch to paiGHaam-e-zabaanee aur hai
[ naamabar = messenger ]
5. qaata-e-'amaar hai aksar nujoom
woh balaa-e-aasmaanee aur hai
[ qaata-e-'amaar = killers, nujoom = stars,
balaa-e-aasmaanee = natural calamity ]
6. ho chukeeN 'GHalib' balaayeN sab tamaam
ek marg-e-naagahaanee aur hai
[ balaayeN = calamities, marg = death, naagahaanee = sudden/
accidental ]
.............................................................................
1. aah ko chaahiye ik 'umr asar hone tak
kaun jeeta hai teree zulf ke sar hone tak ?
2. daam har mauj meiN hai halqa-e-sad_kaam-e-nahaNg
dekhaiN kya guzre hai qatre pe guhar hone tak
[ daam = net/trap, mauj = wave, halqa = ring/circle, sad = hundred,
nahaNg = crocadile, sad_kaam-e-nahaNg = crocadile with a hundred
jaws, guhar = pearl ]
3. aashiqee sabr talab aur tamanna betaab
dil ka kya rang karooN KHoon-e-jigar hone tak ?
[ sabr = patience, talab = search ]
4. ham ne maana ke taGHaful na karoge, lekin
KHaak ho jaayeNge ham tumko KHabar hone tak
[ taGHaful = neglect/ignore ]
5. partav-e-khur se hai shabnam ko fana'a ki taaleem
maiN bhee hooN ik inaayat ki nazar hone tak
[ partav-e-khur = sun's reflection/light/image, shabnam = dew,
fana'a = mortality, inaayat = favour ]
6. yak_nazar besh naheeN fursat-e-hastee GHaafil
garmi-e-bazm hai ik raqs-e-sharar hone tak
[ besh = too much/lots, fursat-e-hastee = duration of life,
GHaafil = careless, raqs = dance, sharar = flash/fire ]
7. GHam-e-hastee ka 'Asad' kis'se ho juz marg ilaaz
shamma'a har rang meiN jaltee hai sahar hone tak
[ hastee = life/existence, juz = other than, marg = death,
sahar = morning ]
............................................................................
1. meherabaaN hoke bula lo mujhe chaaho jis waqt
maiN gaya waqt naheeN hooN ke fir aa bhee na sakooN
2. zauf meiN taana-e-aGHayaar ka shikawa kya hai ?
baat kuchch sar to naheeN hai ke uTha bhee na sakooN
[ zauf = weakness, taana = taunt, aGHayaar = enemy,
shikawa = complaint ]
3. zehar milta hee naheeN mujhko sitamgar, warana
kya qasam hai tere milne kee, ke kha bhee na sakooN
[ sitamgar = oppressor ]
.........................................................................
1. baazeechaa-e-atfaal hai duniya mere aage
hota hai shab-o-roz tamaasha mere aage
[ baazeechaa = play/sport, atfaal = children ]
2. ik khel hai auraNg-e-sulemaaN mere nazdeek
ik baat hai 'eijaz-e-maseeha mere aage
[ auraNg = throne, 'eijaz = miracle ]
3. juz naam naheeN soorat-e-aalam mujhe manzoor
juz waham naheeN hastee-e-ashiya mere aage
[ juz = other than, aalam = world, hastee = existence,
ashiya = things/items ]
4. hota hai nihaaN gard meiN sehara mere hote
ghisata hai jabeeN KHaak pe dariya mere aage
[ nihaaN = hidden, gard = dust, sehara = desert, jabeeN = forehead ]
5. mat pooch ke kya haal hai mera tere peeche ?
too dekh ke kya rang tera mere aage
6. sach kahte ho, KHudbeen-o-KHud_aaraa na kyoN hooN ?
baiTha hai but-e-aainaa_seemaa mere aage
[ KHudbeen = proud/arrogant, KHud_aaraa = self adorer,
but = beloved, aainaa_seemaa = like the face of a mirror ]
7. fir dekhiye andaaz-e-gul_afshaani-e-guftaar
rakh de koee paimaanaa-o-sahba mere aage
[ gul_afshaanee = to scatter flowers, guftaar = speech/discourse,
sahaba = wine, esp. red wine ]
8. nafrat ka gumaaN guzare hai, maiN rashk se guzaraa
kyoN kar kahooN, lo naam na uska mere aage
[ gumaaN = doubt, rashk = envy ]
9. imaaN mujhe roke hai jo khiNche hai mujhe kufr
ka'aba mere peeche hai kaleesa mere aage
[ kufr = impiety, kaleesa = church/cathedral ]
10. aashiq hooN, pe maashooq_farebee hai mera kaam
majnooN ko bura kehti hai laila mere aage
[ farebee = a fraud/cheat ]
11. KHush hote haiN par wasl meiN yoN mar naheeN jaate
aayee shab-e-hijaraaN ki tamanna mere aage
[ hijr = separation ]
12. hai mauj_zan ik qulzum-e-KHooN, kaash, yahee ho
aata hai abhee dekhiye kya-kya mere aage
[ mauj_zan = exciting, qulzum = sea, KHooN = blood ]
13. go haath ko jumbish naheeN aaNhoN meiN to dam hai
rehne do abhee saaGHar-o-meena mere aage
[ jumbish = movement/vibration, saaGHar-o-meena = goblet ]
14. ham_pesha-o-ham_masharb-o-ham_raaz hai mera
'GHalib' ko bura kyoN kaho achchaa mere aage !
[ ham_pesha = of the same profession, ham_masharb = of the
same habits/a fellow boozer, ham_raaz = confidant ]
..........................................................................
1. fir kuchch is dil ko beqaraaree hai
seena zoya-e-zaKHm-e-kaaree hai
[ zoya = searcher, zaKHm-e-kaaree = deep wound ]
2. fir jigar khodane laga naaKHun
aamad-e-fasl-e-laala_qaaree hai
[ aamad = arrival, fasl = season/harvest ]
3. qibla-e-maqsad-e-nigaah-e-niyaaz
fir wahee parda-e-'amaaree hai
[ niyaaz = desire, 'amaaree = rider's seat with a canopy on an
elephant or camel ]
4. chashm-e-dallaal -e- jins-e-ruswaaee
dil KHareedaar-e-zauq-e-KHwaaree hai
[ chashm = eye, jins = things/items, zauq = taste ]
5. wohee sad_rang naala farsaayee
wohee sad_goona ashq_baaree hai
[ sad = hundred, naala farsaayee = lamenter, sad_goona = hundred
times, ashq_baaree = lamentation ]
6. dil hawa-e-KHiraam-e-naaz se fir
mahshristaan-e-beqaraaree hai
[ KHiraam = speed, mahshar = the last day/"qayaamat ka din",
mahshristaan = place of the last day ]
7. jalwa fir arz-e-naaz karta hai
roz-e-baazaar-e-jaaN_sipaaree hai
[ jalwa = splendour, jaaN_sipaaree = resigning one's life into
the hands of another ]
8. fir usee bewafa pe marte haiN
fir wohee zindagee hamaaree hai
9. fir khula hai dar-e-adaalat-e-naaz
garm baazaar-e-fauj_daaree hai
[ dar = abode, fauj_daaree = military court ]
10. ho raha hai jahaan meiN andher
zulf kee fir sarishta_daaree hai
[ sarishta_daaree = a regulator's position ]
11. fir kiya paara-e-jigar ne sawaal
ek fariyaad-o-aah-o-zaaree hai
[ paara = fragment ]
12. fir hue haiN gawaah-e-ishq talab
ashq_baaree ka hukm_zaaree hai
[ talab = search/desire/request, ashq_baaree = lamentation ]
13. dil-o-mizhgaaN ka jo muqadamaa tha
aaj fir uskee roob_qaaree hai
[ mizhgaaN = eyelids, roob_qaaree = to put the mind into work ]
14. be_KHudee be_sabab naheeN 'GHalib'
kuchch to hai jiskee pardaadaaree hai
[ be_KHudee = rapture, be_sabab = without any reason,
pardaadaaree = to hide, esp. fault ]
..........................................................................
1. rone se aur ishq meiN be_baak ho gaye
dhoye gaye ham 'eise ki bas paak ho gaye
[ be_baak = outspoken/bold, paak = pure/clean/holy ]
2. sarf-e-baha-e-mai hue aalaat-e-maikashee
the; ye hee do hisaab, so yoN paak ho gaye
[ sarf = expenditure, baha = value/price, mai = bar,
aalaat = instruments/apparatus, maikashee = boozing ]
3. ruswa-e-dahar go hue aawaargee se tum
baare tabeeyatoN ke to chaalaak ho gaye
[ dahar = world, baare = atlast ]
4. kehta hai kaun naala-e-bulbul ko be_asar
parde meiN gul ke laakh jigar chaak ho gaye
[ chaak = slit/torn ]
5. pooche hai kya wujood-o-adam 'ehl-e-shauq ka
aap apnee aag se KHas-o-KHaashaak ho gaye
[ wujood = existence, adam = non existence,
KHas-o-Khaashaak = destroyed ]
6. karne gaye the; usse taGHaaful ka ham gila
kee ek hee nigaah ki bas KHaak ho gaye
[ taGHaaful = negligence, gila = complaint, KHaak = dust/ashes ]
7. is DHang se uTHaayee kal usne 'Asad' ki laash
dushman bhee jisko dekhke GHamnaak ho gaye
[ GHamnaak = grief stricken ]
..........................................................................
1. woh firaaq aur woh wisaal kahaaN ?
woh shab-o-roz-o-maah-o-saal kahaaN ?
[ firaaq = separation, wisaal = meeting, shab = night,
roz = day, maah = month, saal = year ]
2. fursat-e-kaarobaar-e-shauq kise ?
zauq-e-nazzaraa-e-jamaal kahaaN ?
[ zauq = delight/joy, jamaal = beauty ]
3. dil to dil wo dimaaGH bhee na rahaa
shor-e-sauda-e-KHatt-o-KHaal kahaaN ?
4. thee woh ik shaKHs ke tasavvur se
ab woh raanaai-e-KHayaal kahaaN ?
[ tasavvur = imagination, raanaai-e-KHayaal = tender thoughts ]
5. 'eisa aasaaN naheeN lahoo rona
dil meiN taaqat jigar meiN haal kahaaN ?
[ haal = spiritual ecstasy ]
6. hamse chooTa qamaar_KHaana-e-ishq
waaN jo jawaiN, girah meiN maal kahaaN ?
[ qamaar_khaana = casino, girah = knot/joint ]
7. fikr-e-duniyaaN meiN sar khapaata hooN
maiN kahaaN aur ye wabaal kahaaN ?
[ wabaal = calamity ]
8. muzmahil ho gaye quwa'a 'GHalib'
wo anaasir meiN 'eitdaal kahaaN ?
[ muzmahil = exhausted/idle, quwa'a = limbs, anaasir = elements,
'eitdaal = moderation ]
........................................................................
1. ye na thee hamaaree qismat ke wisaal-e-yaar hota
agar aur jeete rehte yahee intezaar hota
[ wisaal-e-yaar = meeting with lover ]
2. tere waade par jiye ham to ye jaan jhooT jaanaa
ke KHushee se mar na jaate agar 'eitabaar hota
[ 'eitabaar = trust/confidence ]
3. teree naazukee se jaana ki bandha tha 'ehed_booda
kabhee too na toD sakta agar oostuwaar hota
[ 'ehed = oath, oostuwaar = firm/determined ]
4. koee mere dil se pooche tere teer-e-neemkash ko
ye KHalish kahaaN se hotee jo jigar ke paar hota
[ teer-e-neemkash = half drawn arrow, KHalish = pain ]
5. ye kahaaN ki dostee hai ke bane haiN dost naaseh
koee chaarasaaz hota, koee GHamgusaar hota
[ naaseh = councellor, chaarasaaz = healer,
GHamgusaar = sympathizer ]
6. rag-e-sang se Tapakta wo lahoo ki fir na thamta
jise GHam samajh rahe ho, ye agar sharaar hota
[ rag = nerve, sang = stone, sharaar = flash/gleam ]
7. GHam agarche jaaN_gulis hai, pe kahaaN bachaiN ke dil hai
GHam-e-ishq gar na hota, GHam-e-rozgaar hota
[ jaaN_gulis = life threatning ]
8. kahooN kis se maiN ke kya hai, shab-e-GHam buree bala hai
mujhe kya bura tha marna ? agar ek baar hota
9. hue mar ke ham jo ruswa, hue kyoN na GHarq-e-dariya
na kabhee janaaza uThata, na kaheeN mazaar hota
[ GHarq = drown/sink ]
10. use; kauN dekh sakta ki yagaana hai wo yaktaa
jo dooee ki boo bhee hotee to kaheeN do chaar hota
[ yagaana = kinsman, yaktaa = matchless/incomparable, dooee = duality ]
11. ye masaail-e-tasawwuf, ye tera bayaaN 'GHalib' !
tujhe ham walee samajhate, jo na baada_KHwaar hota
[ masaail = topics, tasawwuf = mysticism, walee = prince/friend,
baada_KHwaar = boozer ]
............................................................................
1. dhota hooN jab maiN peene ko us seem_tan ke paaNv
rakhata hai zid se kheeNch ke baahar lagan ke paaNv
[ seem_tan = silver bodied, lagan = a basin ]
2. dee saadgee se jaan paDooN kohakan ke paaNv
haihaat ! kyoN na TooT gaye peerzan ke paaNv
[ kohakan = a mountain digger, haihaat = alas !, peerzan = old woman ]
3. bhaage the; ham bahut see uskee saza hai ye
hokar aseer daabte haiN raahzan ke paaNv
[ aseer = prisoner, raahzan = robber ]
4. marham ki justjoo meiN ghira hooN jo door-door
tan se siwa figaar hai is KHastaa_tan ke paaNv
[ justjoo = desire, figaar = wounded ]
5. allaah re zauq-e-dasht-e-nawrdee ki baad-e-marg
hilte haiN Khud-ba-KHud mere andar qafan ke paaNv
[ zauq = taste, dasht-e-nawrdee = to roam around in wilderness,
marg = death ]
6. hai josh-e-gul bahaar meiN yaaN tak ki har taraf
uDate hue ulajhte haiN murGH-e-chaman ke paaNv
[ murGH = bird ]
7. shab ko kisee ke KHwaab meiN aaya na ho kaheeN
dukhte haiN aaj oos but-e-naazuk_badan ke paaNv
[ but = idol/beloved ]
8. 'GHalib' mere kalaam meiN kyoNkar maza na ho ?
peeta hooN dhoke KHusrau-e-sheereeN_suKHan ke paaNv
[ kalaam = writing/speech, sheereeN = sweet, suKHan = speech/words,
KHusrau-e-sheereeN_suKHan = this is pointed at Badshah Zafar ]
............................................................................
1. hairaaN hooN dil ko ro'ooN ki peetooN jigar ko maiN ?
maqdoor hooN to saath rakhooN nauhaagar ko maiN
[ maqdoor = capable, nauhaagar = mourner/lamenter ]
2. choDa na rashk ne ki tere ghar ka naam looN ?
har ek se poochta hooN ki jaaooN kidhar ko maiN ?
[ rashk = jealousy ]
3. jaana paDa raqeeb ke dar par hazaar baar
'ei kaash jaanta na teree rahguzar ko maiN
[ raqeeb = opponent, rahguzar = road/path ]
4. hai kya jo kas ke baaNdhiye meree bala dar'e
kya jaanta naheeN hooN tumhaaree kamar ko maiN ?
5. lo woh bhee kahate haiN ki yeh be_nang-o-naam hai
yeh jaanta agar to luTaata na ghar ko maiN
6. chalta hooN thoDee door har ik tez rau ke saath
pehchaanta naheeN hooN abhee raahabar ko maiN
[ rau = currents, raahabar = guide ]
7. KHwaahish ko 'ahamqoN ne parastish diya qaraar
kya poojta hooN us but-e-bedaadgar ko maiN ?
[ 'ahmaq = fool/idiot, parastish = worship, but = idol/lover,
bedaadgar = cruel ]
8. fir be_KHudee meiN bhool gaya raah-e-koo-e-yaar
jaata wagarna ek din apnee KHabar ko maiN
[ be_KHudee = rapture, koo-e-yaar = lover's street ]
9. apne pe kar raha hooN qiyaas 'ahl-e-dahar ka
samjha hooN dil_pazeer mata'a-e-hunar ko maiN
[ qiyaas = supposition, 'ahl = people, dahar = period/era,
pazeer = receiving, mata'a = wealth, hunar = skill ]
10. 'GHalib' KHuda kare ki sawaar-e-samand-e-naaz
dekhooN 'alee_bahaadur-e-aalee_guhar ko maiN
[ sawaar = ride, samand = horse, aalee_guhar = belonging to a
high caste or a rich family ]
.............................................................................
1. dard minnat_kash-e-dawa na huaa
maiN na achchaa huaa, bura na huaa
[ minnat_kash-e-dawa = obliged to medicine ]
2. jama'a karate ho kyoN raqeeboN ka ?
ik tamaasha huaa gila na huaa
[ raqeeb = opponent, gila = complaint ]
3. ham kahaaN qismat aazmaane jaayaiN ?
too hee jab KHanjar aazma na huaa
4. kitne sheereeN haiN tere lab ! ki raqeeb
gaaliyaaN khaake be_maza na huaa
[ sheereeN = sweet ]
5. hai KHabar garm unke aane kee
aaj hee ghar meiN boriya na huaa !
[ boriya = mat, here it refers to groceries ]
6. kya woh namrood kee KHudaaee thee
bandagee meiN tera bhala na huaa
[ namrood = an old king who used to say that he was god ]
7. jaan dee, dee huee usee ki thee
haq to ye hai ke haq adaa na huaa
8. zaKHm gar dab gaya, lahoo na thama
kaam gar ruk gaya rawa na huaa
[ rawa = right/lawful ]
9. rahzanee hai ki dil_sitaanee hai ?
leke dil, dil_sitaaN rawa na huaa
[ dil_sitaaN = lover, rawa = agree/admissible ]
10. kuchch to paDhiye ki log kehte haiN
"aaj 'GHalib' GHazalsara na huaa"
........................................................................
1. koee ummeed bar naheeN aatee
koee soorat nazar naheeN aatee
2. maut ka ek din mu'ayyan hai
neeNd kyoN raat bhar naheeN aatee ?
[ mu'ayyan = definite ]
3. aage aatee thee haal-e-dil pe haNsee
ab kisee baat par naheeN aatee
4. jaanta hooN sawaab-e-taa'at-o-zahad
par tabeeyat idhar naheeN aatee
[ sawaab = reward of good deeds in next life, taa'at = devotion,
zahad = religious deeds or duties ]
5. hai kuchch 'eisee hee baat jo chup hooN
warna kya baat kar naheeN aatee ?
6. kyoN na cheeKHooN ki yaad karate haiN
meree aawaaz gar naheeN aatee
7. daaGH-e-dil gar nazar naheeN aata
boo bhee 'ei chaaraagar ! naheeN aatee
[ chaaraagar = healer/doctor ]
8. ham wahaaN haiN jahaaN se hamko bhee
kuchch hamaaree KHabar naheeN aatee
9. marte haiN aarzoo meiN marne ki
maut aatee hai par naheeN aatee
10. kaaba'a kis muNh se jaaoge 'GHalib'
sharm tumko magar naheeN aatee
........................................................................
1. nuktaacheeN hai GHam-e-dil usko sunaaye na bane
kya bane baat jahaaN baat banaaye na bane
[ nuktaacheeN = critic/sweetheart ]
2. maiN bulaata to hooN usko magar 'ei jazba-e-dil
uspe ban jaaye kuchch 'eisee ki bin aaye na bane
3. khel samjha hai kaheeN choD na de, bhool na jaay
kaash ! yooN bhee ho ki bin mere sataaye na bane
4. GHair firta hai liye yooN tere KHat ko ki agar
koee pooche ki yeh kya hai ? to chipaaye na bane
5. is nazaakat ka bura ho, woh bhale haiN to kya
haaNth aaye to unhaiN haaNth lagaaye na bane
[ nazaakat = elegance ]
6. keh sake kaun ki yeh jalwaa_garee kiskee hai
parda choDa hai woh usne ki uTHaaye na bane
[ jalwaa_garee = manifestation ]
7. maut kee raah na dekhooN ki bin aaye na rahe
tumko chaahooN ki na aao, to bulaaye na bane
8. bojh woh sar pe gira hai ki uTHaaye na uTHe
kaam woh aan paDa hai, ki banaaye na bane
9. ishq par zor naheeN, hai ye woh aatish 'GHalib'
ki lagaaye na lage aur bujhaaye na bane
[ aatish = fire ]
..........................................................................
1. ishq mujhko naheeN, wehshat hee sahee
meree wehshat, teree shohrat hee sahee
[ wehshat = solitude, shohrat = fame ]
2. qata`a keeje na ta`alluq ham se
kuchch naheeN hai to `adaavat hee sahee
[ qata'a = break/intercept, ta'alluq = relation/connection,
'adaavat = hatred/animosity ]
3. mere hone meiN hai kya ruswaaee ?
'ei woh majlis naheeN KHalwat hee sahee
[ majlis = assembly, KHalwat = isolation ]
4. ham bhee dushman to naheeN haiN apne
GHair ko tujh se mohabbat hee sahee
5. apnee hastee hee se ho, jo kuchch ho !
aagahee gar naheeN GHaflat hee sahee
[ hastee = existence, aagahee = knowledge/information,
GHaflat = negligence ]
6. 'umr harchand ke hai barq-e-KHiraam
dil ke KHooN karne ki fursat hee sahee
[ barq = lightning, KHiraam = manner of walking ]
7. ham koee tarq-e-wafa karte haiN
na sahee ishq, museebat hee sahee
[ tarq = relinquishment ]
8. kuchch to de 'ei falak-e-na_insaaf
aah-o-fariyaad ki ruKHasat hee sahee
[ falak = sky ]
9. ham bhee tasleem kee KHoo Daalenge
be_niyaazee teree `aadat hee sahee
[ tasleem = greeting/saluting, KHoo = habit,
be_niyaazee = independence ]
10. yaar se cheDa chalee jaay, 'Asad'
gar nahee wasl to hasrat hee sahee
[ wasl = meeting, hasrat = desire ]
......................................................................
1. dil hee to hai na sang-o-KHisht dard se bhar na aaye kyoN ?
royeNge ham hazaar baar, koee hameiN sataaye kyoN ?
[ sang = stone, KHisht = brick ]
2. dair naheeN, haram naheeN, dar naheeN, aastaaN naheeN
baiTHe haiN rehguzar pe ham, GHair hameiN uTHaaye kyoN ?
[ dair = temple, haram = mosque, dar = gate, aastaaN = abode,
rehguzar = path/way ]
3. jab woh jamaal-e-dil_faroz, soorat-e-meher-e-neem_roz
aap hee ho nazzaara_soz, parde meiN muNh chupaaye kyoN ?
[ jamaal = beauty, faroz = shining/luminous, meher = sun,
neem_roz = mid day, nazzaara_soz = beautiful/worth seeing ]
4. dashna-e-GHamza jaaN_sitaaN, naawak-e-naaz be_panaah
tera hee aks-e-ruKH sahee, saamne tere aaye kyoN ?
[ dashna = dagger, GHamza = amorous glance, jaaN_sitaaN = distroying
life, naawak = a kind of arrow, aks = image ]
5. qaid-e-hayaat-o-band-e-GHam asl meiN dono ek haiN
maut se pehle aadmee GHam se nijaat paaye kyoN ?
[ hayaat = life, band-e-Gham = conceled sorrows,
nijaat = release/liberation ]
6. husn aur uspe husn_zan rah gayee bulhawas ki sharm
apne pe 'eitmaad hai, GHair ko aazmaaye kyoN ?
[ husn_zan = favourable view, bulhawas = slave of passions/very
greedy, 'eitmaad = reliance/dependance ]
7. waaN wo GHuroor-e-iz'z-o-naaz yaaN yeh hijaab-e-paas-e-waz'a
raah meiN ham mile kahaaN, bazm meiN wo bulaaye kyoN ?
[ GHuroor = pride, iz'z-o-naaz = respect and beauty,
hijaab = veil/modesty, paas = regard, waz'a = behaviour ]
8. haaN wo naheeN KHuda_parast, jaao wo be_wafa sahee
jisko ho deen-o-dil 'azeez, uskee galee meiN jaaye kyoN ?
[ parast = worshipper, deen = religion/faith ]
9. 'GHalib'-e-KHasta ke baGHair kaun se kaam band haiN ?
roiye zaar-zaar kya, keejiye haay-haay kyoN ?
[ KHasta = sick/injured, zaar-zaar = bitterly ]
..........................................................................
1. muddat huee hai yaar ko mehmaaN kiye hue
josh-e-qadah se bazm chiraaGHaaN kiye hue
[ qadah = goblet ]
2. karta hooN jama'a fir jigar-e-laKHt-laKHt ko
arsa hua hai daawat-e-mizhgaaN kiye hue
[ laKHt = piece, mizhgaaN = eyelid ]
3. fir waz'a-e-'ehtiyaat se rukane laga hai dam
barsoN hue haiN chaak girebaaN kiye hue
[ waz'a = conduct/behaviour, 'ehtiyaat = care, chaak = torn,
girebaaN = collar ]
4. fir garm_naala haay sharar_baar hai nafas
muddat huee hai sair-e-chiraaGHaaN kiye hue
[ sharar_baar = raining sparks of fire, nafas = breath ]
5. fir pursish-e-jaraahat-e-dil ko chala hai ishq
saamaan-e-sad_hazaar namakdaaN kiye hue
[ pursish = enquiry, jaraahat (or jiraahat) = surgery, sad = hundred,
namakdaaN = container to keep salt ]
6. fir bhar raha hai KHaama-e-mizhgaaN ba_KHoon-e-dil
saaz-e-chaman_taraazee-e-daamaaN kiye hue
[ KHaama = pen, mizhgaaN = eyelid, saaz = disposition,
taraazee = consenting ]
7. baa_ham_digar hue haiN dil-o-deeda fir raqeeb
nazzaara-o-KHayaal ka saamaaN kiye hue
[ ham_digar = mutual/in between, saamaaN = confront ]
8. dil fir tawaaf-e-koo-e-malaamat ko jaai hai
pindaar ka saman_kada weeraaN kiye hue
[ tawaaf = circuit, koo = lane/street, malaamat = rebuke/blame,
pindaar = pride/arrogance, saman_kada = house of jasmine flowers,
here it means temple ]
9. fir shauq kar raha hai KHareedaar kee talab
arz-e-mata'a-e-'aql-o-dil-o-jaaN kiye hue
[ talab = search, mata'a = valuables ]
10. dauDe hai fir harek gul-o-laala par KHayaal
sad_gul_sitaaN nigaah ka saamaaN kiye hue
11. fir chaahta hooN naama-e-dildaar kholna
jaaN nazr-e-dil_farebee-e-unwaaN kiye hue
[ naama-e-dildaar = love letter, unwaaN = title/preface ]
12. maange hai fir kisee ko lab-e-baam par hawas
zulf-e-siyaah ruKH pe pareshaaN kiye hue
[ lab-e-baam = the corner of a terrace, siyaah = black/dark ]
13. chaahe fir kisee ko muqaabil meiN aarzoo
soorme se tez dashna-e-mizhgaaN kiye hue
[ muqaabil = confronting, dashna = dagger, mizhgaaN = eyelids ]
14. ik nau_bahaar-e-naaz ko taaqe hai fir nigaah
chehra furoGH-e-mai se gulistaaN kiye hue
[ nau_bahaar-e-naaz = lover, furoGH = light/bright ]
15. fir jee meiN hai ki dar pe kisee ke paDe rahaiN
sar zar-e-baar-e-minnat-e-darbaaN kiye hue
[ zar = money/wealth, baar = burden/load, minnat = supplicate ]
16. jee DhoonDta hai fir wohee fursat ke raat din
baiTHe rahaiN tasavvur-e-jaanaaN kiye hue
[ tasavvur = imagination ]
17. 'GHalib' hameiN na cheD ki fir josh-e-ashq se
baiTHe haiN ham tahayya-e-toofaaN kiay hue
[ tahayya = determined ]
........................................................................
1. bus ki dushwaar hai har kaam ka aasaaN hona
aadmee ko bhee muyassar naheeN insaaN hona
[ dushwaar = difficult, muyassar = possible ]
2. giriya chaahe hai KHaraabee mere kaashaane ki
dar-o-deevaar se Tapke hai bayaabaaN hona
[ giriyaaN = weeping, kaashaana = house, bayaabaaN = wilderness ]
3. waa-e-deewaangee-e-shauq, ke har dam mujhko
aap jaana udhar aur aap hee hairaaN hona
4. jalva az_bas ki taqaaza-e-nigah karta hai
jauhar-e-aaina bhee chaahe hai mizhgaaN hona
[ az = from/then/by, jauhar = skill/knowledge, mizhgaaN = eyelid ]
5. ishrat-e-qatl_gah-e-'ehl-e-tamanna mat pooch
id-e-nazzaara hai shamsheer ka uriyaaN hona
[ ishrat = joy/delight, shamsheer = sword, uriyaaN = naked/bare ]
6. le gaye KHaak meiN ham daaGH-e-tamanna-e-nishaat
too ho aur aap ba_sad_rang-e-gulistaaN hona
[ nishaat (or nashaat) = enthusiasm/happiness, sad_rang = hundred
colours ]
7. ishrat-e-paara-e-dil, zaKHm-e-tamanna_KHaana
lazzat-e-reesh-e-jigar GHarq-e-namakdaaN hona
[ ishrat = joy/delight, paara = fragment/piece, lazzat = taste,
reesh = wound, GHarq = drown/sink, namakdaaN = container to
keep salt ]
8. kee mere qatl ke baad usne jafa se tauba
haay us zood_pashemaaN ka pashemaaN hona
[ jafa = oppression, zood = quickly, pashemaaN = ashamed/
embarrassed ]
9. haif us chaar girah kapDe ki qismat 'GHalib'
jis ki qismat meiN ho aashiq ka girebaaN hona
[ haif = alas!, girah = one sixteenth of a yard, girebaaN = collar ]
............................................................................
1. fir mujhe deeda-e-tar yaad aaya
dil jigar tashna-e-fariyaad aaya
[ deeda-e-tar = wet eyes, tashna (or tishna ) = thirsty ]
2. dam liya tha na qayaamat ne hanoz
fir tera waqt-e-safar yaad aaya
[ hanoz = yet/still ]
3. saadgee haay tamanna, yaanee
fir wo nai_rang-e-nazar yaad aaya
[ nai_rang = fascinating ]
4. uzr-e-waamaaNdagee 'ei hasarat-e-dil
naala karta tha jigar yaad aaya
[ uzr = excuse, waamaaNdagee = tiredness ]
5. zindgee yoN bhee guzar hi jaatee
kyoN tera raahguzar yaad aaya ?
6. kya hee rizwaaN se laDaayee hogee
ghar tera KHuld meiN gar yaad aaya
[ rizwaaN = doorkeeper of paradise, KHuld = heaven/paradise ]
7. aah woh jurat-e-fariyaad kahaaN
dil se tang aake jigar yaad aaya
[ jurat = courage/valour ]
8. fir tere kooche ko jaata hai KHayaal
dil-e-gumgashta magar yaad aaya
[ koocha = a narrow street/lane, gumgashta = missing ]
9. koee weeraanee-see-weeraanee hai
dasht ko dekh ke ghar yaad aaya
[ dasht = desert ]
10. maiNne majnooN pe laDakpan meiN 'Asad'
sang uTHaaya tha ki sar yaad aaya
[ sang = stone ]
.........................................................................
1. kisee ko de ke dil koee nawaa_sanj-e-fuGHaaN kyoN ho ?
na ho jab dil hee seene meiN to fir muNh meiN zubaaN kyoN ho ?
[ nawaa_sanj = singer, fuGHaaN = clamour ]
2. woh apnee KHoo na choDenge, ham apnee waz'a kyoN badleiN ?
subak_sar banke kya poocheiN ki ham se sar_giraaN kyoN ho ?
[ KHoo = habit, waz'a = conduct/behaviour, subak_sar = light headed/
unsteady, sar_giraaN = arrogant/proud ]
3. kiya GHam_KHwaar ne ruswa, lage aag is muhabbat ko
na laaye taab jo GHam ki, woh mera raazdaaN kyoN ho ?
[ GHam_Khawaar = comforter, taab = courage/patience,
raazdaaN = friend ]
4. wafa kaisee ? kahaaN ka ishq ? jab sar phoDna THehra
to fir 'ei sang_dil tera hee sang-e-aastaaN kyoN ho ?
[ sang_dil = hard hearted/merciless, sang-e-aastaaN = threshold ]
5. qafas meiN mujh se roodaad-e-chaman kehte na Dar hamdam
giree hai jis pe kal bijlee woh mera aashiyaaN kyoN ho ?
[ qafas = cage/prison, roodaad = report/statement ]
6. ye kah sakte ho "ham dil meiN naheeN haiN" par ye batlaao
ki jab dil meiN tumhee-tum ho to aaNkho se nihaaN kyoN ho ?
[ nihaaN = hidden ]
7. GHalat hai jazba-e-dil ka shikwa, dekho juRm kiska hai
na khiNcho gar tum apne ko kashaakash darmiyaaN kyoN ho ?
[ jazba = desire/feeling, shikwa = complaint,
kashaakash = struggle/dilemma, darmiyaaN = betwwen ]
8. ye fitna aadmee ki KHaana_weeraanee ko kya kam hai ?
hue tum dost jiske, dushman uska aasmaaN kyoN ho ?
[ fitna = quarrel, KHaanaa_weeraanee = ruinning of home ]
9. yahee hai aazmaana to sataana kis ko kehte haiN ?
`adoo ke ho liye jab tum to mera imtihaaN kyoN ho ?
[ 'adoo = enemy, imtihaaN = examination ]
10. kaha tumne ki "kyoN ho GHair ke milne meiN ruswaaee ?"
baja kehte ho, sach kehte ho, fir kahiyo ki "haaN kyoN ho ?"
[ ruswaaee = disgrace, baja = right/correct ]
11. nikaala chaahata hai kaam kya taa'anoN se too 'GHalib'
tere be_mehar kehne se wo tujh par meharabaaN kyoN ho ?
[ taa'an = taunter, be_mehar = unkind/repulsive ]
............................................................................
1. zulmat_kade meiN mere shab-e-GHam ka josh hai
ik shamma'a hai daleel-e-sahar, so KHamosh hai
[ zulmat = darkness, daleele = proof, sahar = morning ]
2. nai muzda-e-wisaal na nazzaara-e-jamaal
muddat huee ki aashtee-e-chashm-o-gosh hai
[ muzda = good news, wisaal = meeting, nazzaara-e-jamaal = seeing
a beautiful face, aashtee = harmony/friendship/peace, chashm = eye,
gosh = ear ]
3. mai ne kiya hai, husn-e-KHud_aara ko be_hijaab
'ai shauq, yaaN ijaazat-e-tasleem-e-hosh hai
[ mai = bar, KHud_aara = self adorer, hijaab = veil,
tasleem = greeting ]
4. gauhar ko ikd-e-gardan-e-KHubaaN meiN dekhna
kya auj par sitaara-e-gauhar_farosh hai
[ gauhar = pearl/gem, ikd-e-gardan = necklace, KHubaaN = a beautiful
person/sweetheart, auj = highest point/summit, farosh = merchant ]
5. deedaar, waada, hausla, saaqee, nigaah-e-mast
bazm-e-KHayaal maikada-e-be_KHarosh hai
[ deedaar = appearance, be_KHarosh = quite/dead ]
6. 'ei taaza waaridan-e-bisaat-e-hawa-e-dil
zinhaar gar tumhaiN hawas-e-na-o-nosh hai
[ waaridan = arrivals, bisaat = chess, hawa = desire/greed,
zinhaar = be warned !, hawas = lust/greed, na-o-nosh = feasting/
drinking ]
7. dekho mujhe jo deeda-e-ibrat_nigaah ho
meree suno jo gosh-e-naseehat_niyosh hai
[ deedaa= sight, ibrat = admonition, gosh = ear, naseehat = advice,
niyosh = listener ]
8. saaqee ba_jalwa dushman-e-imaan-o-aagahee
mutrib ba_naGHma rahzan-e-tamkeen-o-hosh hai
[ aagahee = wisdom, mutrib = singer, rahazan = robber,
tamkeen = authority/power ]
9. ya shab ko dekhte the; ki har gosha-e-bisaat
daamaan-e-baaGHbaan-o-kaf-e-gul_farosh hai
[ gosha = corner, baaGHbaan = gradener, kaf = sleeve,
gul_farosh = florist ]
10. lutf-e-KHiraam-e-saaqee-o-zauq-e-sada-e-chang
yeh jannat-e-nigaah woh firdaus-e-gosh hai
[ KHiraam = speed, zauq = taste, sada = sound, chang = lute,
firdaus = paradise, gosh = ear ]
11. ya subh dam jo dekhiye aakar to bazm meiN
nai woh suroor-o-soz na josh-o-KHarosh hai
[ suroor = pleasure, soz = passion/heat ]
12. daaGH-e-firaaq-e-sohabat-e-shab kee jalee hooee
ik shamma`a reh gaee hai so wo bhee KHamosh hai
[ firaaq = separation, sohabat = company ]
13. aate haiN GHaib se ye mazaameeN KHayaal meiN
'GHalib', sareer-e-KHaama nawa-e-sarosh hai
[ GHaib = hidden/mysterious, mazaameeN = topics, sareer = scratching
sound made by a pen, KHaama = pen, nawa = sound, sarosh = angel ]
............................................................................
1. hai bas ki har ik unke ishaare meiN nishaaN aur
karte haiN muhobbat to guzarata hai gumaaN aur
[ gumaaN = doubt/suspicion ]
2. yaarab ! wo na samjhe haiN na samjheNge meree baat
de aur dil unko, jo na de mujhko zubaaN aur
3. abroo se hai kya us nigah-e-naaz ko paiwand
hai teer muqarrar magar uskee hai kamaaN aur
[ abroo = eyebrow, paiband = patch ]
4. tum shahar meiN ho to hameiN kya GHam ? jab uTHeNge
le aayenge baazaar se jaakar dil-o-jaaN aur
5. harchand subak_dast hue but_shikanee meiN
ham haiN, to abhee raah meiN hai sang-e-giraaN aur
[ subak_dast (or sabuk_dast both are correct) = expert,
but_shikanee = iconoclast, sang = stone, giraaN = heavy ]
6. hai KHoon-e-jigar josh meiN dil khol ke rota
hote kaee jo deeda-e-KHooNnaaba_fishaaN aur
[ deeda = eye, KHooNnaaba = mixture of blood and water,
{KHooNnaaba = KHooN (= blood) + aab (= water)}, fishaaN = shed
/spread, KHooNnaaba_fishaaN = to sheds tears of blood ]
7. marta hooN is aawaaz pe harchand sar uD jaay
jallaad ko lekin wo kahe jaayaiN ki 'haaN aur'
[ jallaad = executioner ]
8. logoN ko hai KHursheed-e-jahaaN taab ka dhoka
har roz dikhaata hooN maiN ik daaGH-e-nihaaN aur
[ Khursheed = sun, taab = power/courage, nihaaN = hidden ]
9. leta, na agar dil tumhe deta, koee dam cheiNn
karta, jo na marta koee din, aah-o-fuGHaaN aur
[ fuGHaaN = clamour ]
10. paate naheeN jab raah, to chaD jaate haiN naale
ruktee hai meree tab'a to hotee hai ravaaN aur
[ naale = lamentation, tab'a = temperament ]
11. haiN aur bhee duniya meiN suKHanwar bohot achche
kehte haiN ki 'GHalib' ka hai andaaz-e-bayaaN aur
[ suKHanwar = poet ]
...........................................................................
Ameer Hassan
On 26 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> Please Ameer do not denigrate the tawaeef Khanas. For all we know you
> may well have been conceived and reared in one as most here suspect.
> Nusrat Rizvi
> Rowayton, Conn
>
Abay Kamathi pura kay pushtinee pimp, I understand that it is your
pusthinee heritage, but as every one here knows, you love that place and
I love to kick your pompous arse.
P.S. so apnee bitya kee naak kay chiday kay kyaya dam mangat ho?
Nusrat Rizvi
In <8621893...@dejanews.com> Zahra_...@msn.com writes:
>> >=:Sir Ghalib was the biggest patron of the rundis
>> >=
>> >=Is that why you call him 'Sir' (pun whole-heartedly intended) ?
>> >=Naufal.
>> you son of a gun Naufal, you made me laugh,
>> gailani
>Sir(Mr. Gailani):
>Please do not pamper His Excellence! If you have not noticed then
please do so as he has to put in brackets every time he thinks he is
being humorous. That is so silly. Why cannot he let people judge and
then question, if thay have any doubts.
>
>I am quiet shocked at his Pun Intended, Pun Not Intended definitions.
>Senor SR, please help your fellow Maritian! The rest are too busy in
>themselves, you are the one speaketh for the chauvinists...:-) You
>should find a solution for their mental health...:-)
>Regards,
>ZJ
Dear ZJ, you would be sadly mistaken if you think Naufal is the only
case of severe retardation on scp, the damn place is jumping with all
kinds of loony brained morons all in desperate need of help.
In all honesty Naufal's case while limited to ego, male chauvinism and
sundry attempt at humor is not so bad, considering we have out and out
sociopaths by the dozens.
What I find most scary is an attempt by a sizable numbers on scp who
would like nothing better but to turn this world around to 6th century
Arabia where all men would become Momins and women will be elevated to
the high rank of Momin producers.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Ameer Hassan
On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> How many times have I asked you not to go near the keyboard
> when your Sikh genes are jumping, will you please take it easy
> and keep your mothers indiscretion a secret by staying quiet.
> Your elegant style of writing coupled with your vocab and
> eloquence should have you earmarked for a distinguished
> position as an ambassador to Washington or the UN from
> paindooland. I am surprised why have they not noticed you yet.
>
Yet again the pusthinee pimp of Khamthi pura shows his true heritage.
How many times do I have to remind you that your barfing while
chasing your own tail shows your genetic make up? But, well, you have
no control when your pushtinee prostitute mothers and some Sikh halwaldars
genes show up.
P.S. so apnee bitay kay nak kay chiday kay kaya daam mangat ho?
P.P.S Dusht kay sath dusht kaaa seva vay wahar karo.
Ameer Hassan
On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> > Mirza Ghalib was one of the greatest poets to live. His
> >greatness was in his poetry not how he made a living.
>
> > If he was born in a different time or today, he perhaps would
> >have made millions selling his art commercially.
>
> He in fact refused to write QASEEDAS (eulogies for the monarch and other
> royalty) at will which is equivalent to todays endorsement of a Nike
> products or writing eulogies for hire. He was proud of his penury and
> worked at keeping his dignity, though it was hard to do during the time of
> the "ghaddar".
>
huh: he did write qaeedas of his masters. And as needed, he did slap
himself to save his own neck. His remarks about what he will write as
history `depends on how well he will be paid' show his true nature.
The TV serial do show truth about him.
Ameer Hassan
On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, madan lal wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:16 +0500, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >madan lal wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:50:07 GMT, Ameer Hassan <aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> >Only a piece of shit like NR will claim to know `Urdu'
> >> >(pushtinee style) and Urdu poetry (including Ghalib) and yet not
> >> >know what a `Tarkeeb' is.
> >> >
> >>
> >> you tell him brother.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Again with the royal we, boy you sure are taking on paindoo habits.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >The bloody piece of shit forgot that this `we' business belongs to
> >> >his pushtinee taweef culture.
> >> >
> >> yes.
> >> madan lal
> >
> >OYAE HINDU KHUT O MAL TO BAZ NAHEE AYEGA
>
> oye, fittay munh tera, khotay da puttar. if you want to support nusrat rizvi
> then go friend with gang. i am supporting ammeer hassan to fight mahajirs.
>
>
Pervaiz Sahib: There is no point arguing with madan lal, aka moinA.
Ameer Hassan
On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> > These folks who supported Ghalib are the very folks that created one of
> > the finest civilizations on the planet.
>
> >>These folks can keep this `finest civilization' to themselves.
> >>No one else gives a damn.
>
> WELL no one is a slight exaggeration...AH will surely be
> disappointed......this is a big year for Ghalib......THE INTERNATIONAL
> BICENNTENNIAL IS BEING CELEBRATED in many nations.....both Pakistan and
> India plan to have postage stamps, mushairas, and many many poets have
> already written poems on Ghalib, and ALMOST all singers in South Asia
> (irregardless of race, religion and caste) will be singing Ghalib poems
> and ghazalls... PTV, Radio Pakistan BBC-Urdu service, VOA, Doordarshan and
> Z-TV etc. will be arranging big bashes.
>
> To enjoy Urdu/Punjabi peotry which is a rich part of our heritage, we must
> learn to enjoy our literature...and we for sure cannot judge everyone on
> someones yardstick of Islamic Muslimness. If we are to enjoy Faiz and Josh
> Malaihabadi and Jagjit Singh we have to look at their works not their
> MUSLIMNESS or lack thereof.
>
Did you ask permission from your apostle NR before starting this pimping
of Punjabi poetry? Are you still advertising that I should call NR
to find out what kind of a person he is?
Let me ask you once again. When was the last time you condemned the
filthy NR? Repost your article for all of us to read.
Bengalis, Indians, and Sindhis have flushed it out. The survival
of Urdu hangs in the hands of gullible paindoos.
Pushtinee pimps of NR kind, who are ignorant about what a `tarkeeb' is,
can beat the drum about Ghalib as much as they want to.
Ameer Hassan
On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> > the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
> > Gardens, the paintings, the translation of the Gita, the trasnlation of
> > the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism that
> > spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
> > nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
> > subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their
> leagacy..................
> >
>
> >>You can keep that legacy,
>
> What can I say...repudiation of everything that good in Pakistan and India
> is but a feat that only AH can do.............. ................ ignorance
> is bliss for some! Anyone reading this knows the value AH puts on arts,
> literature, architecture, Sufisim (The highest form of Islamic learning),
> religion, tolerance, and in general what we in a civilized society call
> CULTURE.......................
>
Mr MA, aka Madan lal, what happened to your preachings that I should
call NR to find out what kind of person he is?
Everyone reading your preaching of tolerance to NR knows you very well.
Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
Ameer Hassan
On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> > legacy of hirams,
> >tawaeef-khanas and what not.
>
> I am sure the OLDEST profession on the planet has existed for as long as
> man and woman have been around
There is a mijor difference. Most societies condemned it. But these
pusthinee pimps made it into the `height of their culture'. They sent
their daughters to learn `manners' from these prostitutes.
Now, just like NR, be proud of your heritage. And dont forget to
tell us how good NR, and his and your heritage are.
Ameer Hassan
On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
>
> COMPLETE DISCUSSION POSTED ON SOC.CULTURE.PAKISTAN.HISTORY
>
> I am not too sure about the bedroom antics of Gahlib....the Quran clearly
> asks us not to judge other Muslims and marhoom Muslims at that. Who will
> go to hell or heaven is ONLY known to Allah and will find out about this
> on Qiamat day. According to the Quran ...Gheebat of course is like eating
> your dead brothers body. If one has not seen the adultery (as in the
> actual genitals)...the witness does not stand in Islamic court. One needs
> three. Who is to say how much of Ghalibs persona was fantsy and how much
> was fact?
>
Wah! Now would you teach this to NR? I understand that you have talked to
NR, and what did you find out?
Ameer Hassan
On 27 Apr 1997, Nusrat Rizvi wrote:
>
> Listen Madan Lal, Dumb Dugga, only person Ameer Hassan wants in his
> camp are fellow Punjabis who are Muslims.
> May be you qualify for the first but are you circumcised too.
> Nusrat Rizvi
> Rowayton, Conn
It is clear that Madan lal paid a visit to NRs family. How else would NR
know. Mr Madan lal, tell us about what you did with NR and his family?
Did you find them as `civilized as the pustinee prostitutes of lakh-navi-
taweefs introduced every month'?
Nusrat Rizvi
>> If writing the truth makes me a harami Hindu so be it, and if you
wish to believe the childish propaganda of Radio Pakiand announcing
victory after victory over Indian army in Bengal and in Punjab both,
you are also free to do so. The only conspiracy here was to let the
Paindoo take charge, and as expected he wasted little time in making a
mess of everything.
>> It is a historical fact that the dreaded Sikh Danda is the only
force which keeps the Paindoo savagery in check.
>> Nusrat Rizvi
>
>Nusrat,
> The word paindoo is a racist word. Please try to abstain from
using it.I like your open defiance of normal pakistani understanding of
history. But I would like it if you did not totally demolish and
humiliate your opponent in the process. You see they must be given a
chance to accept that they are wrong.
>Or to atleast think about the fact that they are wrong. If you
humiliate them, despite knowing they are wrong their ego will
immediately kick into effect; and the only purpose of your enlightening
post will be reduced to
: " I criticized callously and proved their worthlessness, so they
should be humbled ".
>
>Often people are humbled not by insults but by praising their good
qualities.If you tell them how brave , and truthfull they are . Despite
themselves they will try to live upto your expectations.
>I think that the urdu speaking folks in pak. have got a huge
>superiority complex thing going. They consider their punjabi brethren
as some dangerous jatt etc. and openly make fun of a people I find
truly beautiful in spirit. In my experiences with punjabis, i found
them as straigh
tforwad , simple and loving people. These people should not be hurt
just because they lack that superficial artificiality / of the urdu
speaking folks.
>A. Shiraz Siddiqui assi...@uiuc.edu
Whole lot of issues here and I will try to answer them as best as i
can.
I have no superiority complex but I do know I have strong aversion to
raping of women or killing of other humans which the Paindoos have had
no problems with todate. If killing and raping in Bengal was not bad
enough we had the next generation of these pigs do the same to mohajirs
in Karachi. If you want to treat them as humans that is your affair,
but please kindly refrain from advising Mohajirs or Bengalis
that we should forget what these animals have done and should go back
to being good Muslim brothers.
To keep on thinking in terms of a united Pakistan in light of what has
happened in Karachi is typical of Paindoo head in the sand mentality.
Far too many of us have died and we want Paindoo blood in revenge. To
attain this nobel goal every possible avenue will be explored and no
help refused.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Shahbaz Raza
Zahra_...@msn.com wrote:
> Senor SR, please help your fellow Maritian! The rest are too busy in
> themselves, you are the one speaketh for the chauvinists...:-) You
> should find a solution for their mental health...:-)
>
> Regards,
>
> ZJ
Senorita, have you ever heard that saying "when the cat is away,mice
will play".Thats the situation we face now.As you know I am very busy
with my studies right now.Not to mention that I will be graduating
pretty soon.Needless to say that I have no free time.So now bunch of
retard,insignificant,vulgar and filthy mice have decided to try their
luck in my absence.I can only pity them.
Shahbaz Raza
Shahbaz Raza
Naufal A. Khan wrote:
> for starters, you're much better off batting eyelids for Noor or
> Ayaz (or writin cutesy-wusty little notes to Shazloin) ... flaming
> me is something you may wanna stay away from ... but do read on
> cuz I answered most of your questions. continue reading ....
It is amazing that this resident vulgar monkey of SCP Naulious has
the audacity to tell others not to flame him when thats what ALL he has
done in the past 7 YEARS.He has been vulgar,obscene,offensive and lewd
towards people throughout those 7 YEARS.And NOW, this shameless freak of
nature is reprimanding others about flames.Didn't I say that he is
nothing but a disgusting banana craving chimpanzee? I say, lets all spit
on him and offer bananas.
Shahbaz Raza
Ameer Hassan
On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Naeem Siddiqi wrote:
>
> In article <336410...@ibm.net>, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
> >madan lal wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:16 +0500, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >madan lal wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:50:07 GMT, Ameer Hassan
> <aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >Only a piece of shit like NR will claim to know `Urdu'
> >> >> >(pushtinee style) and Urdu poetry (including Ghalib) and yet not
> >> >> >know what a `Tarkeeb' is.
> >> >> >The bloody piece of shit forgot that this `we' business belongs to
> >> >> >his pushtinee taweef culture.
> >> >> >
> >> >> yes.
> >> >> madan lal
> >> >
> >> >OYAE HINDU KHUT O MAL TO BAZ NAHEE AYEGA
> >>
> >> oye, fittay munh tera, khotay da puttar. if you want to support nusrat
> rizvi
> >> then go friend with gang. i am supporting ammeer hassan to fight mahajirs.
> >
> >
> >yOU you havent read my post I a supporter of nr that old foggy
> >but yar if at all you had to disguise your self for reason you know
> >yourself
> >than were you left with only a hindu identity only
>
> -- excuse me Pervaiz, are you talking to Ameer .. or do you think madan lal is
> actually ameer hassan ?
>
>
> -- naeem --
>
>
Naeem: do you always talk from your butt?
Ameer Hassan
That is what he learned from NR! These guys are good at chasing their
own tails. It is a lot of fun to watch them do it. Next one of
these super-idiots will claim that Nauflious flames only when
flamed, he does not use vulgar language etc! They do provide a lot
of fun.
ayaz
Ameer Hassan (aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu) wrote:
: On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
:
: > > the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
Az.
ayaz
But you said you didn't like Ghalib and the TV Serial... since it was
just a waste of your precious time!!
Az.
mis...@pha.jhu.edu
In article <5k85e2$k2c$1...@spasmolytic.openix.com>,
ay...@openix.com (ayaz) wrote:
> : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> ******************
> pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
Mr.Az what's your problem with A**H*** MME's choice of words?
Who knows what trails he would have blazed in this distinguished
profession had it not been for the airport handicap? At least
give him the satisfaction of reminiscing.
Mohammad Noorul Islam
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <336583...@earthlink.net>,
Shahbaz Raza <shaz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>towards people throughout those 7 YEARS.And NOW, this shameless freak of
>nature is reprimanding others about flames.Didn't I say that he is
>nothing but a disgusting banana craving chimpanzee? I say, lets all spit
>on him and offer bananas.
Yaar, if you dont mind my saying, you appear transfixeed on bananas.
Wonder what Freud would say about that...
Ahmer
ayaz
mis...@pha.jhu.edu wrote:
: In article <5k85e2$k2c$1...@spasmolytic.openix.com>,
: ay...@openix.com (ayaz) wrote:
:
: > : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
: > ******************
: > pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
:
: Mr.Az what's your problem with A**H*** MME's choice of words?
Being a Kafir you are... I know you are supporting these kind of
words from AH... BTW how much did you have to spend?
: Who knows what trails he would have blazed in this distinguished
: profession had it not been for the airport handicap? At least
Has has always used the bunkers to overcome his handicap!!
so don't make fun of it...
: give him the satisfaction of reminiscing.
Az. [... sho'qeen? ...]
Ameer Hassan
On 30 Apr 1997, ayaz wrote:
> Ameer Hassan (aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu) wrote:
> : On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> :
> : > > the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
> : > > Gardens, the paintings, the translation of the Gita, the trasnlation of
> : > > the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism that
> : > > spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
> : > > nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
> : > > subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their
> : > leagacy..................
> : > >
> : >
> : > >>You can keep that legacy,
> : >
> : > What can I say...repudiation of everything that good in Pakistan and India
> : > is but a feat that only AH can do.............. ................ ignorance
> : > is bliss for some! Anyone reading this knows the value AH puts on arts,
> : > literature, architecture, Sufisim (The highest form of Islamic learning),
> : > religion, tolerance, and in general what we in a civilized society call
> : > CULTURE.......................
> : >
> : Mr MA, aka Madan lal, what happened to your preaching that I should
> : call NR to find out what kind of person he is?
> : Everyone reading your preaching of tolerance to NR knows you very well.
> : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> ******************
>
> pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
>
> Az.
>
>
When people use Islam (or any other morality) to remind others of
their `duties' and always forget to perform their obligations
then they are doing nothing but `pimping'.
One good example was provided by NR, who never hesitates to slander
Islam, when he used `Islam' in his pathetic attempt to convince
about the `right' of `biharis in Begnaladesh' to migrate to
Pakistan.
Ameer Hassan
On 30 Apr 1997, ayaz wrote:
> Ameer Hassan (aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu) wrote:
> : On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> :
Memory loss? I did not like Ghalib. And it was a waste of time (for me).
The serial is quite factual.
Ameer Hassan
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 mis...@pha.jhu.edu wrote:
> In article <5k85e2$k2c$1...@spasmolytic.openix.com>,
> ay...@openix.com (ayaz) wrote:
>
> > : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> > ******************
> > pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
>
> Mr.Az what's your problem with A**H*** MME's choice of words?
>
> Who knows what trails he would have blazed in this distinguished
> profession had it not been for the airport handicap? At least
> give him the satisfaction of reminiscing.
>
> Mohammad Noorul Islam
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
>
>
As usual, s**tslam has been eating Nrs dropings.
Ameer Hassan
On 1 May 1997, ayaz wrote:
> mis...@pha.jhu.edu wrote:
> : In article <5k85e2$k2c$1...@spasmolytic.openix.com>,
> : ay...@openix.com (ayaz) wrote:
> :
> : > : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> : > ******************
> : > pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
> :
> : Mr.Az what's your problem with A**H*** MME's choice of words?
>
> Being a Kafir you are... I know you are supporting these kind of
> words from AH... BTW how much did you have to spend?
>
> : Who knows what trails he would have blazed in this distinguished
> : profession had it not been for the airport handicap? At least
>
> Has has always used the bunkers to overcome his handicap!!
> so don't make fun of it...
>
> : give him the satisfaction of reminiscing.
>
> Az. [... sho'qeen? ...]
>
>
Dont worry: The only thing he never condemns is NR, his apostle.
Zahra_...@msn.com
In article <5k2ep4$1...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>
> In <8621893...@dejanews.com> Zahra_...@msn.com writes:
> >> >=:Sir Ghalib was the biggest patron of the rundis
> >> >=
> >> >=Is that why you call him 'Sir' (pun whole-heartedly intended) ?
> >> >=Naufal.
>
> >> you son of a gun Naufal, you made me laugh,
> >> gailani
>
> >Sir(Mr. Gailani):
> >Please do not pamper His Excellence! If you have not noticed then
> please do so as he has to put in brackets every time he thinks he is
> being humorous. That is so silly. Why cannot he let people judge and
> then question, if thay have any doubts.
> >
> >I am quiet shocked at his Pun Intended, Pun Not Intended definitions.
> >themselves, you are the one speaketh for the chauvinists...:-) You
> >should find a solution for their mental health...:-)
> >Regards,
> >ZJ
>
> case of severe retardation on scp, the damn place is jumping with all
> kinds of loony brained morons all in desperate need of help.
> In all honesty Naufal's case while limited to ego, male chauvinism and
> sundry attempt at humor is not so bad, considering we have out and out
> sociopaths by the dozens.
> What I find most scary is an attempt by a sizable numbers on scp who
> would like nothing better but to turn this world around to 6th century
> Arabia where all men would become Momins and women will be elevated to
> the high rank of Momin producers.
> Nusrat Rizvi
> Rowayton, Conn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Rizvi:
Assalam-O-Alaikum! Hope you are doing well. It was a great honor that you
cared to participate in this thread. It has been ages that we have not
exchanged views regarding SCP of course. In fact, I have some points
swimming in my head and I wanted to jot them down and open a chapter for
new discussion and of course no foul words.
If that sounds like forming a world revolving around 6th century then we
better try that as well. Life has to be a mixture of trials and errors
otherwise what would be there to look forward to? Anyway, from your
argument I was reminded of a quote that I have read somewhere:
"Behind every great man there is a woman and behind every great woman
there is a man to stop her(And says, do not progress).
It has been a fact that majority of the asian women who reached heights
were either divorcees, separated or widows. When I say height , it should
mean as the ones who held a post in the government.
Can you throw some light on the male mentality over here? Please , do not
come back with a response belittling religion. Give me an unbiased
opinion.:)
Question number two, how were the days of the 6th century? Did they
represent harmony and unity like we have right now on SCP? Or things were
better? Being in my twenties I certainly do not have any clue about those
days. Please share the information.
From the words Momin and Momina I would conclude that people were quite
pious. Hm.....:)
Sorry for the abrupt end, but have to leave. Duty calls!
ZJ
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Ameer Hassan wrote:
>
> On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
>
Can mr nusrat refute this that devlopment of urdu was done by the
"paindoos"
Moin Ansari
VERY VERY strange, you have outdone yourself in your lake
ayaz (ay...@openix.com) wrote:
: Ameer Hassan (aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu) wrote:
: : On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
: :
: : > > the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
: : > > Gardens, the paintings, the translation of the Gita, the
translation of
: : > > the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism that
: : > > spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
: : > > nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
: : > > subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their
: : > leagacy..................
: : > >
: : >
: : > >>You can keep that legacy,
: : >
: : > What can I say...repudiation of everything that good in Pakistan and India
: : > is but a feat that only AH can do.............. ................ ignorance
: : > is bliss for some! Anyone reading this knows the value AH puts on arts,
: : > literature, architecture, Sufisim (The highest form of Islamic learning),
: : > religion, tolerance, and in general what we in a civilized society call
: : > CULTURE.......................
: : >
: : Mr MA, aka Madan lal, what happened to your preachings that I should
: : call NR to find out what kind of person he is?
: : Everyone reading your preaching of tolerance to NR knows you very well.
: : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
: ******************
: pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
: Az.
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Ameer Hassan wrote:
>
> On 30 Apr 1997, ayaz wrote:
>
> > Ameer Hassan (aha...@beta.tricity.wsu.edu) wrote:
> > : On 27 Apr 1997, MoinA wrote:
> > :
> > : > > the Taj, the Badshahi Mosque, the Shalimar
> > : > > the Quran from Arabic to South Asian Languages, the birth of Sufism that
> > : > > spread Islam to the nook and corners of South Asia and beyond, the
> > : > > nurseries that created freedom in Sough Asia are but a short list of
> > : > > subject that Mr. AHs blood suckers left as their
> > : > leagacy..................
> > : > >
> > : >
> > : > >>You can keep that legacy,
> > : >
> > : > What can I say...repudiation of everything that good in Pakistan and India
> > : > is but a feat that only AH can do.............. ................ ignorance
> > : > is bliss for some! Anyone reading this knows the value AH puts on arts,
> > : > literature, architecture, Sufisim (The highest form of Islamic learning),
> > : > religion, tolerance, and in general what we in a civilized society call
> > : > CULTURE.......................
> > : >
> > : call NR to find out what kind of person he is?
> > : Everyone reading your preaching of tolerance to NR knows you very well.
> > : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> > ******************
> >
> > pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
> >
> > Az.
> >
> >
> their `duties' and always forget to perform their obligations
> then they are doing nothing but `pimping'.
> One good example was provided by NR, who never hesitates to slander
> Islam, when he used `Islam' in his pathetic attempt to convince
> about the `right' of `biharis in Begnaladesh' to migrate to
> Pakistan.
Ameer sahib i agree with what you say but kindly refrain from using
such word with islam
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Ameer Hassan wrote:
>
> On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 mis...@pha.jhu.edu wrote:
>
> > In article <5k85e2$k2c$1...@spasmolytic.openix.com>,
> > ay...@openix.com (ayaz) wrote:
> >
> > > : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> > > ******************
> > > pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
> >
> > Mr.Az what's your problem with A**H*** MME's choice of words?
> >
> > Who knows what trails he would have blazed in this distinguished
> > profession had it not been for the airport handicap? At least
> > give him the satisfaction of reminiscing.
> >
> > Mohammad Noorul Islam
> >
> > -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
> >
> >
> As usual, s**tslam has been eating Nrs dropings.
This badmash never gives up
Nusrat Rizvi
In <8625448...@dejanews.com> Zahra_...@msn.com writes:
>
>
>In article <5k2ep4$1...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
> rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>> >Sir(Mr. Gailani):
>> >Please do not pamper His Excellence! If you have not noticed then
>> please do so as he has to put in brackets every time he thinks he is
>> being humorous. That is so silly. Why cannot he let people judge and
>> then question, if thay have any doubts.
>> >
I am quiet shocked at his Pun Intended, Pun Not Intended
definitions.Senor SR, please help your fellow Maritian! The rest are
too busy in themselves, you are the one speaketh for the
chauvinists...:-) You should find a solution for their mental
health...:-)
>> >Regards,
>> >ZJ
>> Dear ZJ, you would be sadly mistaken if you think Naufal is the only
>> case of severe retardation on scp, the damn place is jumping with
all kinds of loony brained morons all in desperate need of help.
>> In all honesty Naufal's case while limited to ego, male chauvinism
and sundry attempt at humor is not so bad, considering we have out and
out sociopaths by the dozens.
>> What I find most scary is an attempt by a sizable numbers on scp who
>> would like nothing better but to turn this world around to 6th
century Arabia where all men would become Momins and women will be
elevated to the high rank of Momin producers.
>> Nusrat Rizvi
>> Rowayton, Conn
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dear Mr. Rizvi:
>
>Assalam-O-Alaikum! Hope you are doing well. It was a great honor that
you cared to participate in this thread. It has been ages that we have
not exchanged views regarding SCP of course. In fact, I have some
points swimming in my head and I wanted to jot them down and open a
chapter for new discussion and of course no foul words.
And when pray tell have I used foul language with you?
>If that sounds like forming a world revolving around 6th century then
we better try that as well. Life has to be a mixture of trials and
errors otherwise what would be there to look forward to? Anyway, from
your argument I was reminded of a quote that I have read somewhere:
>"Behind every great man there is a woman and behind every great woman
>there is a man to stop her(And says, do not progress).
>It has been a fact that majority of the asian women who reached
heights were either divorcees, separated or widows. When I say height ,
it should mean as the ones who held a post in the government.
It only goes to show how male dominated a society we come from.
>Can you throw some light on the male mentality over here? Please , do
not come back with a response belittling religion. Give me an unbiased
opinion.:)
Coming from that culture as you do, I am hardly in a position to advise
you on the workings of Muslim minds. One certainly sees enough examples
of it right here on scp.
>Question number two, how were the days of the 6th century? Did they
>represent harmony and unity like we have right now on SCP? Or things
were better? Being in my twenties I certainly do not have any clue
about those days. Please share the information.
6th century Arabis was a peaceful environment much like any other of
its time. That is up until our prophet rose up with a new doctrin of
Islam as the chosen faith and either convert or die.
To answer your question, it was very good for Mohammed and his
followers, everbody else on the other hand suffered. The victims
included non Muslims, Slaves and Females.
>From the words Momin and Momina I would conclude that people were
quite pious. Hm.....:)
>ZJ
Piousness is a difficult concept to judge, I was only being cute.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Hassan Naqvi
header for above post:
---------------------------------
Subject: Re: Ghalib, Iqbal and Welfare
Date: 2 May 1997 14:12:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Message-ID: <5kcso6$r...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>
***
San Jose,CA
Ameer Hassan
On Fri, 2 May 1997, PERVAIZ RIZVI wrote:
>
> Ameer Hassan wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 mis...@pha.jhu.edu wrote:
> >
> > > In article <5k85e2$k2c$1...@spasmolytic.openix.com>,
> > > ay...@openix.com (ayaz) wrote:
> > >
> > > > : Your pimping of Islam, Pakistan etc is nothing but to save your own skin.
> > > > ******************
> > > > pimping of Islam??? Your choice of words always amazes me AH!!
> > >
> > > Mr.Az what's your problem with A**H*** MME's choice of words?
> > >
> > > Who knows what trails he would have blazed in this distinguished
> > > profession had it not been for the airport handicap? At least
> > > give him the satisfaction of reminiscing.
> > >
> > > Mohammad Noorul Islam
> > >
> > >
> > As usual, s**tslam has been eating Nrs dropings.
>
> This badmash never gives up
>
He loves it! He enjoys NRs dropings so much! Then he comes up with
what he found in them.
Moin Ansari
Subj: Re: Ghalib, Iqbal and Welfare
Date: 97-04-28 23:48:12 EDT
From: MoinA
To: ee...@sun.leeds.ac.uk
CC: mo...@netcom.com
This is very interesting, ANY discussion of poetry, politics or pundits
is immediately converted into a pissing contest between Ps and non-Ps.
THis is indeed a sad state of affairs for our culture and our well being.
Just a few folks are responsible for this state of affairs, and the rest
of us just sit back and watch them hijack EACH and every discussion into
parochial and provincial galee galauch.
SCPians and Pakistanian and Indians need to use our power to IGNORE the
culprits who have made a mockery of of the SCP
PLEASE look at a map of India. If you do not have one, buy one. You will
find that Delhi is in the Punajab...this takes out WIND out of the rest
of your argument argument
In a message dated 97-04-28 10:50:25 EDT, you write:
> > Maybe I'm missing something
>
> Sure you ARE missing a lot....bigotry will never get anyone
anywhere.....the
> culture of Nothern India DID INCLUDE Delhi which was a part of the
province
> of Punjab.....
>
>
> ################
> Delhi was a city of Hindustanis ie Uttar Pradeshis etc. I bet Ghalib
hardly
> saw a Kashmiri, Punjabi or Pakhtun in his life.
ALL cities of the subcontinent were inhabited by Hindustanis..since there
WAS NOT Pakistan. I can take your senctence is use it for Lahore....Your
terminology "Hindustani" is obviously flawed, because it works in a
limited bigoted sense in your mind , BUT does not work in ANY historical
perspective. All citizens of Hindustan were Hindustanis......(Hindustan
stemming from those who lived in the land of the Indus). Citizens of
Pakistan can obviously NOT BE Hidnustani.
> There is no such thing as a unified culture of Northern "India".
> ###############
YOUR personal opinion to be respected but a tad bit removed from FACT
Please see the works of Stanley Wolpert and Barbra Metcalf for DETAILS on
the MUGHLEA CULTURE that flourished in NORHTERN INDIA for about three
centuries
>
> Gurdaspur a Muslim Punjabi city was center of Urdu learning and
> literature...Lahore too with Shams Ul Ulema Mohammad Hussain, and
Azad was
> part of the Northern Indian culture that included Kashmiris (who since
> independence have opted to make Urdu their stae language).
>
> ###########
> Kashmiris have never formed a part of the culture of Northern India.
The very fact that Kashmiris speak and learn Urdu contradicts your
assertion. In fact Kashmir is the ONLY Indian state with Urdu as the
state langugage. Sheikh Abdullah and even Nehru moved in and out of
Kashmir at will.....please read Nehru:Tyrst with Destiny, and you will
find many Muslims and Hindus who shared the common culture with Kashmir
The intercourse between kashmir and the Muslim areas of Northern India is
proverbial. Many many Muslim families had cottages in Kashmir....in fact
the entire Mughal government and the British government used to move to
the hills of Kashmir, Deradun and/or Simla during the hot summer months
>Only
> the
> Hindu and Buddhist religion were adopted by Kashmiris during a phase
in
> their
> history. Malaysia and Indonesia were once Hindu, China and Japan are
> Buddhist now.
So...what does this have to do with the MUGHLEA culture of Northern India?
> All the major figures of Urdu literature during the Mughal times were
> foriegners
> employed by the Mughal King. Urdu moved to Punjab after the mutiny.
WRONG again....The great Punjabi Urdu dan...Shams ul Ulema Mohammad
Hussain Azad liven Punjab BEFORE The mutiny
> And then
> in
> a very small way. Most Punjabis have only become aware of Urdu in the
last
> 20 or so
> years.
> ############
Your knowledge of the history of Urdu needs to be refreshed....please in
your spare time read the HISTORY OF URDU on
soc.culture.pakistan.history...I will post it again....there...Urdu
flourished in the Punjab LONG before the Punjabi nomadic tribes settled
down..I will refer you to another book EMPRE and ISLAM: The role of the
Punjab in the making of Pakistanby David Gilmaritin...and you will see
the facts.
> Iqbal never wrote in Punjabi, and Faiz wrote in Urdu, as have ALMOST ALL
> great Punjabi poets of our time. Any attempts to seperate Urdu and
Punajabi
> literature at this point in time is difficuilt to do.
>
> ###############
> There was no Punjabi literature at this point! Iqbal and Faiz wrote
verse in
> a
> FORIEGN language.
> #################
AMAZING...who was Iqbal born in Sialkit wiriting for....there must have
been an audience for him...WHERE did he go to school.....have you EVER
read where Iqbal learned his Urdu....in SIALKOT...
Faiz ofcourse loved Urdu too and wrote for Punajbis who love Urdu
> For three centuries, Northern India (along with Kashmir, and Punjab)
formed
> the cultural heritage that we refer to as Mughlea....it was Hindu,
Muslim
> and
> Sikhs....we are all proud of this heritage...and cannot just focus in
on the
> tail end of a glorious civilization...if you refute the civilization
and due
> not give it its due, then ALL provinces and states are to blamed for not
> keeping it alive.....UP was a conlomeration of many cultures...Pathan,
> Panjabi, Awadhi etc...
>
>
> ###################
> Mughlea civilisation was essently one of foriegners. Persion was the
court
> language
> and most of the Mansadars were Turks and Persions.
You are sadly mistaken. The Mughal court was full of Kashmiri
Muslims...and the courts of Awadh and Haydrabad had Kashmiri
Muslims....please see HISTORY OF KASHMIR posted on
soc.culture.pakistan.history with appropriate refrences...a book by Marin
Sugarman on Kashmir also lists prominent Kashmiris in the Mughal courts.
>No Kashmiri, to my
> knowledge,
> made it to high office during Mughal times. And only one Punjabi;
Saadullah
> Khan
> Shah Jehans Prime minister. He succeeded only because of his superior
> intellect.
Are you saying that the other Punjabis had inferior intellect? Obvously
not....you need to look at your history books again...not the ones
written by BOGOTS
> The Turanis and Iranis of the court did not accept him.
There always interclan rivalry in the courts.
> UP culture is Hindustani ( In the strictist definition of the word)
The term Hindustani does not signigy anything...it simply signifies a
nationality....we could use the SAME sentence for ANY Indian city...say
Calcutta or Goa...
UP culture is a conglomeration of MANY MANY cultures. The UNITED
PROVINCES were a diverse and different groups of amny diffeerent states.
Please see Francis Robinson in his book SEPARATISM AMONG INDIAN MUSLIMS.
Those UP states that bordered Punjab were influenced by the Punjab etc.
etc. etc.
> The classical era of Punjabi literature with poets such as Bulleh Shah
and
> Waris
> Shah ran parallel to and independently of Hindustani/Urdu culture.
Please see barbara Metcalf...Sufism sprang from the Deobandis and the
Farangi Mahallis to other coreners of the Subcontinent.....even the
curriculms of the Deobandis and other Sufi schools were written by the
Farangi Mahallis (for a detialed discussion please see Enclyclopedia of
Islam)
> Most Kashmiris of the time probably didn't even know where India was.
They
> still
> don't!!
Your presonal opinion.....with 600,000 soldiers raping and pillaging
Kashmir, they surely do not want or like India...that is for sure.
> Many Punjabis i know here in England teach their children Urdu: it has
quite
> a bit
> of snob value. But ask a rural origin Punjabi what moves him, the
verse of
> Bulleh Shah or Ghalib. Ghalib is admired, Bulleh Shah almost worshipped.
I am not too sure of the snob value....I am sure that MORE Punjabis love
Urdu than any other province of the Subcontinent (save perhaps Kashmir).
Even Sikhs Punajbis love Urdu, and its poets.....a recent Jagjit Singh
concert was filled with Punajbis and we enjoyed Urdu and Punajabi ghazalls
> ####################
>
> The "Turkish" perversion you refer to is actually the tail end of the
Mughal
> Empire (Persian, Turkish, Arab, Sanskrit), and all major cities of the
> Subcontinent suffered from it....Lahore for example had one of the largest
> red light areas of South Asia (see Collins: Freedom at Midnight),
delhi had
> similar areas as did Calcutta and other areas....
>
> #############################
>
> .... Jahangirs harem of 5000 boys for his alternate pleasures. Right
in the
> middle
> of the "glorious" Mughal era.
I have seen no historical basis for your claim. Please provide
references...this is a CHALLENGE!
WE can throw barbs at each other for decades.....and talk about what
Ranjit Singh did too, and what th Tiwanas DO EVEN now...but let us
discuss HISTORICAL issues. The very fact that Jehangir was the richest
man on earth, who built mosques and roads for all
Hindustanis/Indians/Subcontinentals goes to show that was a glorious time
for India and Pakistan and Bangladesh.
> All towns and cities of all countries have redlight districts or
prostitutes.
> However,the Mughals and their cohorts made it into an Art Form
> #################################
The OLDEST profession has been around for a while....prositutes have been
aroudn for thousands of years....Taxila temples used to have prositutes
WAY befoer Islam came to the shores of the Subcontinent.
It was an art form in Lahore and Peshawar and Quetta and Goa and Calcutta
and Hydrabad LONG before the Mughals arrived in the Subcontinent.
madan lal
On 27 Apr 1997 11:20:31 GMT, rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>In <3362e232...@news.pathcom.com> ma...@agniPath.com (madan lal)
>writes:
>>
>>On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:16 +0500, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net>
>wrote:
>>
>>>madan lal wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >The bloody piece of shit forgot that this `we' business belongs to
>>>> >his pushtinee taweef culture.
>
>>>> yes.
>>>> madan lal
>>>
>>>OYAE HINDU KHUT O MAL TO BAZ NAHEE AYEGA
>>
>>oye, fittay munh tera, khotay da puttar. if you want to support nusrat
>rizvi then go friend with gang. i am supporting ammeer hassan to fight
>mahajirs.
>
>Listen Madan Lal, Dumb Dugga, only person Ameer Hassan wants in his
>camp are fellow Punjabis who are Muslims.
>May be you qualify for the first but are you circumcised too.
you old basturd only intelliegnt people are suport ammeer becasue he always
talk sense not like you. he only swear at you as you deserved it. he is good
muslim.
madan lal
On Fri, 02 May 1997 07:23:14 +0500, PERVAIZ RIZVI <sho...@ibm.net> wrote:
>Ameer Hassan wrote:
>>
>> When people use Islam (or any other morality) to remind others of
>> their `duties' and always forget to perform their obligations
>> then they are doing nothing but `pimping'.
>> One good example was provided by NR, who never hesitates to slander
>> Islam, when he used `Islam' in his pathetic attempt to convince
>> about the `right' of `biharis in Begnaladesh' to migrate to
>> Pakistan.
>
>Ameer sahib i agree with what you say but kindly refrain from using
>such word with islam
khotay da puttar who are you. ammeer can say what he like.