Caste, what do you think?

[Samapadhki]

Come read the write-up on the Caste System at Sampadhki:

http://www.anand.to/sampadhki/edit2.html

Or go straight to the discussion at:

http://www.anand.to/sampadhki/boards/2/index.html

[Kunal Singh]

I think that this article was originally written by a person belonging to the "bhangi" caste, thus the emphasis on the four varnas, instead of lineage as the lineage of most "bhangis" is largely unknown and unrecorded.  For the "bhangi" Brahmins life in India revolves around one of the four varnas, the Brahmins, the Kshatriyas, the Vaishyas and the Shudras.  This is because the "bhangis" do not know their lineage and thus relish their "Brahmin" classification repeatedly emphasizing that this varna is the highest amongst the four varnas.  I think it is illustrative to note the thinking of at least one person from a non-"bhangi"caste on this net not dependent on his caste status or "varna!"  This person seems quite convinced that everybody in India is highly conscious of his "varna!"

 

I am a Awadhiya Kurmi by caste from Bihar, known prior to independence as Awadhvanshi Kshatriya prior to the caste classification for the reservations.  Under the classification most of the agrarians listed themselves under the Kurmi caste.  No we did not go around every day telling everybody we were Kshatriya like is quite common amongst the Rajput caste and nor did anybody else that I knew from my caste.  As a matter of fact very few people ever found out that they were of Kshatriya caste in my caste and fewer still have emphasized that they were Kshatriya. Only those interested in reading religious texts knew it, but most people knew from the term "Awadhiya" that they were somehow associated with Ayodhya. 

 

When one of my younger female relatives was accosted by a Rajput woman who of course declared her Rajput status to her, and asked her what caste she was from, she was quite confused.  She went home to ask her great grandmother her caste.  My great grandmother's reply was that she was from a very "niman" (in Magghi "good") caste.  Her reason was not that she belonged to a caste of Kshatriya "varna".  She was quite the devout woman from a village and she had toured all the religious sites in her region.  She told her that they were the same people as of the King Harischandra of Ayodhya.   Thus the emphasis on the lineage and the association with a famous figure, rather than the "varna!"  She took great pride in the fact that she was ethnically related to the king famous for telling the truth always.

 

That was on my mother's side who were quite devout and religious.  Then of course there was my father's side of the family who were just known to be terrors in their region.  They were some of the best martial artists of their region.  But nobody knew of them as Kshatriyas.  They just knew of them as mean and hardened swordsmen.  My grandfather was a Ramayana toting individual who had the text memorized in Sanskrit and spent a good number of years having a Brahmin from UP recite the Ramayana to him, correcting his Sanskrit and his omissions in reading.  The Brahmin was quite taken by him, in my opinion partly because he was classically handsome by Indian standards.  So he asked him who he was, hoping to find out his caste.  My grandfather's response was that the family's basic sustenance came from agriculture and he was thus an agriculturalist   In this case, the emphasis was on the primary source of income, again not the "varna." 

 

My father's side of the family was involved in many fights, and many outright killings due to being angered or insulted by others, and being quite temperamental they felt that every such insult had to be avenged.  This was not because they considered themselves Kshatriyas.  They said many things about many people, every evening concluding with some male entering the courtyard growling "khun pee jabayee, okar khuun" (I will drink his blood, drink his blood!).  But never was their any mention of being Kshatriya.  

 

Actually they were attacked by many people of various castes, as the forces organized by their opponents contained people from all walks of life, from blacksmiths, to the Yadavs, to the tribal but militant Dusadhs.  But not once did the Brahmins intercede and tell all the attacking populace, that they were not of the requisite "varna" to carry out their physical attacks!  As a matter of fact, whenever their was a fight, Mr. Brahmin of superior Brahmin "varna" was not there to enforce the "varna" structure with the power of his "devtas!"  When the house with thick walls was typically attacked, even the women of the house fought back throwing everything from pepper to hot water from the rooftops.  But no Brahmin with his "varna" textbook anywhere!

 

So why do the Brahmins like to emphasize their "varna?"  Because they don't know their lineage.  There is no generic Kshatriya in India, only lineages.  But if you were a Brahmin what could you say ?  You cannot read the Puranas and determine your lineage, because your lineage is not recorded.  The Kings paid the Brahmins to record their lineage, not the Brahmins' own.  Thus the emphasis in their caste on the "varna" rather than anything else and they keep harping on their varna and dream about how being Aryan Brahmins they once conquered all of India while wrapping their threads around their ears before relieving themselves in the mornings!

Samapadhki wrote in message <37F3AECE...@yahoo.com>...

[ganipan...@my-deja.com]

Hi.

> Brahmins like=20
> to emphasize their &quot;varna?&quot;&nbsp; Because they don't know =
> their=20
> lineage.&nbsp;

I think the gotra for a brahmin basically denotes his lineage. Just like
Kshatriyas trace their lineage to famous kings of the past, brahmins
trace their lineage to famous Rishis of the past. For example a brahmin
of the Atri gotra traces his lineage back to the Rshi Atri. Similarly
there are other lineages of famous Rshis (Vasishtha, Vishvaamitra,
Kashyapa, etc.). All brahmins are taught their gotra at their upanayanam
(sacred thread) ceremony.

Regards
Ganesh.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[room...@my-deja.com]

Gotra, yes. But gotra, 9 or 10 for the brahmins --( 2 major categories:
panch gauda(saraswat(punjab),kanyakubja(UP),maithili(Bihar),gaur(bengal)
as well konkanstha ones AND panch dravida (includes maharashtra and
gujarat ) brahmins -- also applies to non-brahmins upper castes (not
sure about BC/Dalits etc). But this gotras have been expanded for these
castes, as far as i know.

Kashyapa gotra is one example where a dravidian connection may be
established. This gotra normally is looked down upon.

Such were the dynamics of the indian society that if we come across a
decidedly dravidian/munda brahmin and an aryanish kurmi !! we should not
be very surprised....

In article <7tdv8o$mf8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

ganipan...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi.
>
> > Brahmins like=20

> > to emphasize their &quot;varna?&quot;&nbsp; Because they don't know

[room...@my-deja.com]

Gotra, yes. But gotra, 9 or 10 for the brahmins --( 2 major categories:
panch gauda(saraswat(punjab),kanyakubja(UP),maithili(Bihar),gaur(bengal)
as well konkanstha ones AND panch dravida (includes maharashtra and
gujarat ) brahmins -- also applies to non-brahmins upper castes (not
sure about BC/Dalits etc). But this gotras have been expanded for these
castes, as far as i know.

Kashyapa gotra is one example where a dravidian connection may be
established. This gotra normally is looked down upon.

Such were the dynamics of the indian society that today if we come

across a decidedly dravidian/munda brahmin and an aryanish kurmi !! we

should not be so surprised....