Pakistan's national language should be Arabic or Farsi
PAK BALOCH
Jinnah made the big mistake by making the language of north Indian Muslims
(from UP, Delhi, etc) which is Urdu, the national language of Pakistan. I am
sure Jinnah made the decision thinking that none of the native language of
Pakistan will dominate the others, but he was not aware that those north Indian
Muslim migrants to Pakistan were not going to get absorbed into the native
people and culture, and now are called "Muhajirs" a distinct ethnic minority
who make up about 9% of Pakistan's population. The Muhajir superiority complex
(of being so called descendents of north Indian based Muslim rulers, language,
culture, etc) has only resulted in resentment among native Pakistanis against
their domination of language and culture in Pakistan. This language issue
instead of promoting unity is dividing Pakistanis. If the national language of
Pakistan be changed to Arabic or Farsi, the problem will be solved. Arabic is a
multi-racial/cultural/regional language spoken from the Atlantic coast of
Africa to Oman. Arabic is one of the major spoken languages in the world
(accepted in the UN). Islam's holy book of Quran was revealed in Arabic and
thus is read in Arabic by Muslims all around the world. Most of the region of
Pakistan was part of the Arab empire for more than two centuries. Then, Farsi
is spoken in Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan ...... the lands where the region
and people of Pakistan share most of the history, culture and race. The
language of the Muslim rulers in South Asia was always Farsi.
HRUSA1
Pakistan's official language is English not Urdu. English should continue as
official language forever as it is the international and Internet language.
Nobody forced Urdu on anybody. In fact it is wrong to say that Urdu is the
language of Urdu speaking people. Urdu is the language of most of Pakistan
where it is used for reading and writing like in Punjab, Baluchistan, NWFP. It
is their language. They have a regional language for speaking. This situation
is in many countries and nations , not unique in Pakistan. Major development of
Urdu took place in Punjab . All regional languages in Pakistan must be
promoted. However, in Pakistan there is no money for general education and
Pakistan is one of the most illeterate country in the world. Therefore
regional languages also received no support from government.
Arabic or Persian if made national language will not be workabale. Nobody
speaks or understands these languages anymore. Islamization has hurt Pakistan
too much. See all this religious fanaticism, Shia sunni warfare. Mullahs
intolerance against minorities. Harsh laws such as hadood Ordinance, blasphemy
laws have pushed Pakistan into dark ages. More Islamization will hurt Islam and
Arabic language than create solidarity. People of Pakistan now hate Iran ,
being Shia,k under the growing influence of fanatic mullah of Sipah-E-sahaba.
If Persian is made the official language then these Mullahs will start new
fitnas.
Mutahir Kazmi
Pakistan Human Rights Watch
Mo
PAK BALOCH
Official language and National language are two different things. To some
extent the Official language of Pakistan is English, spoken in "some" govt
institutions, businesses, schools, etc. But the National language of Pakistan
is Urdu!!! Replacing Urdu with Arabic or Farsi does not mean "Islamization", it
is just one of the logical solutions to the problem of national language in
Pakistan. Leaving the religious color out of the language issue you will find
that there are plenty of historical, cultural and racial similarities between
the two to support the idea of replacing Urdu with Arabic or Farsi. Let's face
the reality, except for major cities in Pakistan, the majority of Pakistanis
dont know Urdu. Even most of the educated non-Muhajir Pakistanis prefer not to
speak Urdu. Urdu as a National language has only created resentment among most
native Pakistanis. And English is fine as some sort of Official language
specially for foreign students, international businesses/services, intl. govt
depts, etc ..... but definitely not as a National language. English, the
language of our Colonial British past, can only be accepted as our National
language who are slave-minded and have no pride in their cultural and racial
roots.
Subject: Pakistan's national language should be Arabic or Farsi
From: pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH)
Date: 9/19/98 5:52 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <19980919185224...@ng102.aol.com>
and people of Pakistan share most of the history, culture and race. Also, the
Mo
PakRajput
Hey PakBaloch:
Bhen chod kuttay kay bacchay tell me how many people in Pakistan understand
Arabic or Farsi and then tell me how many understand Urdu. If native
Pakistanis resent Urdu as the national language it is only because of their
racist attitude. Muhajirs have always been open minded people and have treated
others with respect but you asshole junglees send your army and police to kill
us and show us your superiority attiude. You nigger ki aulad, bhosri kay.
Pinki, Guy Pathak
You make sense on many an issue - but English as a national lingo !
Come on!
Try selling this idea to a peasent in Baluchistan.
Umesh
Mo <11305...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
<6u1lvm$36q$1...@eros.clara.net>...
> First become proficient in baby talk !..
>
>hru...@aol.com (HRUSA1) wrote:
>
>
>
who...@my-dejanews.com
By reading Mo's postings :-)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
PAK BALOCH
PakRajput wrote:
>Bhen chod kuttay kay bacchay
>You nigger ki aulad, bhosri kay.
Wow, very intellectual! I suppose this is 'Muhajir' culture at it's best.
Though I hope I am wrong. ;)
>tell me how many people in Pakistan understand
>Arabic or Farsi and then tell me how many understand Urdu.
After 51 years of Pakistan's creation, an overwhelming majority of Pakistanis
still dont understand Urdu. Except for major cities, go to interior Sindh,
Baluchistan, NWFP and Punjab.... and then tell me how many people know Urdu. On
an overall statistics only 35% of Pakistanis know Urdu. Most of whom are forced
to learn unwillingly with resentment, in order to survive to communicate with
others in major cities. As far as Arabic or Farsi, yes not too many people
understand it, but once it is made the National language of Pakistan, people
will slowly learn it with proper reforms by govt, and it will be openly and
willingly accepted by all peoples.
> If native
>Pakistanis resent Urdu as the national language it is only because of their
>racist attitude.
Native Pakistanis resent Urdu because it is seen as domination and imposition
of language and culture of a people who constitute 9% of an ethnic minority
('Muhajirs') in Pakistan. It is discriminating and unfair to other native
languages of Pakistan. Also, it is because of Muhajirs strong sense of cultural
superiority and arrogance; and I have experienced that first handedly.
>Muhajirs have always been open minded people and have treated
>others with respect but you asshole junglees send your army and police to
>kill
>us and show us your superiority attiude.
Yeah right, you Muhajirs are a very racist and selfish people. Are you
comparing the killing of Muhajirs (most of Muhajirs are killed by Muhajirs
themselves) with the killing of Baluchis in the 70's. I am a Baluch and I know
what the Baluchis went through. You Muhajirs are the most prosperous people in
Pakistan and still complain. You have no idea of Baluchi miseries.
Azam Khan
You are still breathing......I wonder how many RAW agents are in your
staff these days??? Take care.
Azam.
P.S. I have no idea how you got through my kill file....once again I
ask you to stop spamming SCP.
Mo wrote:
> First become proficient in baby talk !..
--
Azam Khan's Web Page: http://www.erols.com/sap1
Overlord
All this just to ape arab culture? Pakistanis have no
pride in themselves, that's why they have to try and
mimic others. Much like that guy Louis Farakkhan
who is not proud of his african identity and goes
around with his islam nonsense.
HRUSA1
Pakrajput has been very racist. May be he is Mohajir enemy in disguise. No
Mohajir would ever support this kind of hate laguage as MR. Pakrajput has used
it.
PakBaluch in his original posting made a lot of sense. Which Urdu speaking will
oppose Persian or Arabic from becoming national language of Pakistan.
All Pakistanis are equal and nobody should be tolerated for using offensive
remarks against any Pakistani nationality. This is immoral , against Islam and
will not work.
Mutahir Kazmi
Pakistan Human Rights Watch
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Pakistan's national language should be Arabic or
>Farsi
>From: pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH)
>Date: Sun, Sep 20, 1998 11:55 EDT
>Message-id: <19980920115545...@ng16.aol.com>
></PRE></HTML>
who...@my-dejanews.com
Overlord <o...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> All this just to follow Islam? Pakistanis have no
> pride in themselves, that's why they have to try and
> mimic others. Much like that guy Louis Farakkhan
> who is not proud of his african identity and goes
Note the corrections.
Laulak Siddique
>
> All this just to ape arab culture? Pakistanis have no
> pride in themselves, that's why they have to try and
> mimic others. Much like that guy Louis Farakkhan
> who is not proud of his african identity and goes
And hindus use names like Overlord, a code named used by their masters
for the invasion of Europe
ls
PakRajput
<<
Yeah right, you Muhajirs are a very racist and selfish people. Are you
comparing the killing of Muhajirs (most of Muhajirs are killed by Muhajirs
themselves) with the killing of Baluchis in the 70's. I am a Baluch and I know
what the Baluchis went through. You Muhajirs are the most prosperous people in
Pakistan and still complain. You have no idea of Baluchi miseries.
>>
Who killed baluchis in the 7os. Wasn't it punjabi army and sindhi prime
minister bhutto.
who killed bengalis in the 70s. wasn't it punjabi army again and sindhi prime
minister bhutto. Tell me nigger ki aulad, how can you call muhajirs arrogant
and racist when your people have been the victims of punjabis. Gandoo make
some sense. We muhajirs are most prosperous. Yeah right. Show me your
source. punjabis are the most prosperous and our success is due to our hard
work. Even in America muhajirs are ahead of other pakistanis and that is due
to our hard work and education while punjabis are always thinking of illegal
ways of making money and ripping someone of and you balochs are dumb fucks
because of the nigger blood in your veins. If you are stupid dumbass, it is
not my fault.
Gul Agha
pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
> After 51 years of Pakistan's creation, an overwhelming majority of
> Pakistanis still dont understand Urdu. Except for major cities, go
> to interior Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP and Punjab.... and then tell me
> how many people know Urdu. On an overall statistics only 35% of
> Pakistanis know Urdu.
This is true. In many Sindhi rural areas, no one understands Urdu.
In many Balochi ones close to Sindh, it is easier to find people who
understand Sindhi than Urdu.
> Most of whom are forced to learn unwillingly
> with resentment, in order to survive to communicate with others in
> major cities. As far as Arabic or Farsi, yes not too many people
> understand it, but once it is made the National language of
> Pakistan, people will slowly learn it with proper reforms by govt,
> and it will be openly and willingly accepted by all peoples.
This is silly. If a small country like Switzerland can have four
official languages, so can Pakistan. Let each province decide what
they want. In any event, Sindhis want the Sindhi language to be on
par with any other in Pakistan.
--
Peace,
Gul Agha
nda...@aol.com
HINDU
Wednesday, September 16, 1998
SECTION: National
Panel on languages soon, says PM
Date: 16-09-1998 :: Pg: 13 :: Col: c
CHENNAI, Sept. 15
The Prime Minister, Mr. Atal Behari Vajpayeem, today said his Government would
soon set up a committee to study the feasibility of treating all 19 languages,
including Tamil, mentioned in the Constitution as official languages, and
asserted that the coming together of the BJP and Dravidian parties was a
testimony to the strength of Indian democracy and ethos.
In a statement on arrival in Chennai, Mr. Vajpayee recalled that the DMK
founder, C.N. Annadurai, wanted all Indian languages to be constitutionally
treated as national languages.
``My view on this issue has been consistent,'' Mr. Vajpayee said recalling
one of the debates in the Rajya Sabha in the late sixties where he had
endorsed Annadurai's views when he pressed for amendment of the Constitution
to name all Indian languages as national languages.``It was I who then
quickly rose to endorse his view and say they are national languages. There
is no doubt about it,'' the Prime Minister said.
He said the national agenda for governance, which was the policy blueprint for
his Government, had given an assurance on setting up of a committee for
considering the feasibility of treating all 19 languages included in Schedule
Eight of the Constitution as official languages.
>
> --
> Peace,
>
> Gul Agha
naeem s.
>
>pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
>
>> After 51 years of Pakistan's creation, an overwhelming majority of
>> Pakistanis still dont understand Urdu. Except for major cities, go
>> to interior Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP and Punjab.... and then tell me
>> how many people know Urdu. On an overall statistics only 35% of
>> Pakistanis know Urdu.
>
>This is true. In many Sindhi rural areas, no one understands Urdu.
>In many Balochi ones close to Sindh, it is easier to find people who
>understand Sindhi than Urdu.
>
-- The urban population has a greater proportion of Urdu speakers because Urdu
is a second language for most of the population, and the urban population
learns it in school. In the rural areas, the literacy rate is pitiful and
therefore whether you have urdu or english or whatever as the official
language, no one will learn it (other than the local language).
--Naeem--
Malcolm X Jihad
The official langauge of any islamic state should be Arabic.
OTher languages are of course welcomed and should be preserved.
Islam does not want to make the world into "arabs".
80% of Muslims aren't ARabs. They're mostly Asians.
--
Peace.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One Man's Freedom Fighter, Another Man's Terrorist"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
saad khan
>
> The official langauge of any islamic state should be Arabic.
> OTher languages are of course welcomed and should be preserved.
> Islam does not want to make the world into "arabs".
>
> 80% of Muslims aren't ARabs. They're mostly Asians.
>
> --
> Peace.....
Great! let's make Urdu the offical language of Islam,
and make the religious language Arabic.
Saad
Malcolm X Jihad
>Great! let's make Urdu the offical language of Islam,
>and make the religious language Arabic.
>Saad
ARabic is the official and religious language of Islam and (should be)
of Muslims. It's obvious. Quran is in Arabic. Arabic
is the sine qua non of Islamic studies.
Urdu, is an Islamicized language. Urdu vocabulary is filled with
words borrowed from Arabic langauge. If you know Urdu and
Arabic (both) you'll see so much in common in the 2 langauges.
Farsi, another Islamicized langauge, also has a lot of
ARabic words. Similary, turkish is like this I think.
saad khan
Geez, It was a joke. You need to relax a bit.
Saad
saad khan
>
>
> ARabic is the official and religious language of Islam and (should be)
> of Muslims. It's obvious. Quran is in Arabic. Arabic
> is the sine qua non of Islamic studies.
>
> Urdu, is an Islamicized language. Urdu vocabulary is filled with
> words borrowed from Arabic langauge. If you know Urdu and
> Arabic (both) you'll see so much in common in the 2 langauges.
> Farsi, another Islamicized langauge, also has a lot of
> ARabic words. Similary, turkish is like this I think.
>
> --
> Peace.....
>
Actually I thought that Abraham was the first muslim in this world.
Shouldn't the language he spoke then be the official language?
Saad
PAK BALOCH
>Who killed baluchis in the 7os.
It was the SOB Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, may his soul burn in hell. Ameen
>who killed bengalis in the 70s.
Besides the Army on the orders of those SOB Khan, it was you Muhajirs,
specially your Biharis brothers. Go ask a Bengladeshi and see how much hatred
they have for those Muhajirs (Biharis). It was you Muhajirs who oppressed the
Bengalis since Pakistan was created. It was you racist and arrogant Muhajirs
that forced the Bengalis to accept Urdu, which resulted in breakup of Pakistan.
Just like Bengalis,...... Baluchis, Sindis and Pakhtuns dont want the
imposition of Urdu. You Muhajirs have only given trouble since Pakistan was
created.
>We muhajirs are most prosperous. Yeah right. Show me your
>source.
You lier. You Muhajirs came from Gangastan with nothing and took over the
properties of the fleeing Hindus. Until the seventies all govt posts were
dominated by Muhajirs. Even now most of the businesses in Pakistan are
dominated by Muhajirs. The per capita income and the standard of living is the
highest among Muhajirs in Pakistan. Many of the top ten richest Pakistanis are
Muhajirs. You Muhajirs are the most selfish, greedy and racist people.
>you balochs are dumb fucks
>because of the nigger blood in your veins.
This is proof that you Muhajirs are a racist people. Balochs in the Makran
coast have some Negro blood, but an overwhelming majority of Balochs are pure
Iranian people. It is most of you Muhajirs that are darkies of Hindu origin
(low castes) but falsely claim to be Arab, Iranian, Afghan and Turk origin. You
people are full of BS.
PakRajput
You are accusing muhajirs of being racist but you are indulging in racism
yourself so you are a typical munafiq. For your information, before the
formation of Pakistan, muslims in UP and Hyderabad Deccan were very prosperous
and your accusation that muhajirs had noting in india is baseless. If we took
hindu property, hindus also took the property we left in India. As for
biharis, they fought Indian army and bengali nationalists in 1971. They did
not participate in the mass killing and raping of civilians like punjabi army.
90000 punjabi soldiers surrendered even though they had weapons and training
and the biharis who were poorly trained and lightly armed kept fighting the
indian army and bengali nationalists even after the pak army surrendered for 3
weeks. If bengalis hate us that is because biharis did not support bengali
separatists. It was sindhi Jinnah that made Urdu the national language since
Urdu was used by the Muslims of the subcontinent to communicate with eachother
before Pakistan was created. Even Educated and religious bengali families used
to speak urdu. If gov't posts were dominated by muhajirs that is because of
our educational level. When Pakistan was created, muhajirs had a literacy rate
of 45% while the rest of pakistan had a literacy rate of only 7% so Pakistan
needed muhajirs. Pakistan could not have been run without muhajirs. When the
literacy rate among other ethnic groups started rising, they did not need
muhajirs any more so they started throwing them out of work. If you balochis
and jaahil and don't go to school, it is not muhajirs' fault. If you worship
your sardars who are the biggest obstacle in the way of the development of your
province, I can't be held responsible for that. SO again I stand by my
statement that balochs are dumb fuck racist motherfuckers who will always be
behind everyone.
Hallaj
>Malcolm X Jihad wrote:
>>
>> The official langauge of any islamic state should be Arabic.
>> OTher languages are of course welcomed and should be preserved.
>> Islam does not want to make the world into "arabs".
>>
>> 80% of Muslims aren't ARabs. They're mostly Asians.
>>
>> --
>> Peace.....
>
>Great! let's make Urdu the offical language of Islam,
>and make the religious language Arabic.
Good Idea! And let's wash Persian out of Islamic shit1
Hallaj
>
>Saad
remove 98 to reply!
Wilson Samraj
for nothing. Nothing new.
Bash Pakistan up into pieces.
Malcolm X Jihad <ad...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<adam3Ez...@netcom.com>...
In article <3606A8...@cisco.com> saad khan <sk...@cisco.com> writes:
>Great! let's make Urdu the offical language of Islam,
>and make the religious language Arabic.
>Saad
ARabic is the official and religious language of Islam and (should be)
of Muslims. It's obvious. Quran is in Arabic. Arabic
is the sine qua non of Islamic studies.
Urdu, is an Islamicized language. Urdu vocabulary is filled with
words borrowed from Arabic langauge. If you know Urdu and
Arabic (both) you'll see so much in common in the 2 langauges.
Farsi, another Islamicized langauge, also has a lot of
ARabic words. Similary, turkish is like this I think.
--
Peace.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Malcolm X Jihad
Oh :)
hehehe :)
Malcolm X Jihad
>
>Actually I thought that Abraham was the first muslim in this world.
>Shouldn't the language he spoke then be the official language?
>
>Saad
Well, the first Muslim would be Adam. What langauge he spoke
I'm not sure, but I think it may very well be Arabic because
we're told in a tradition that ARabic is the language of
paradise. That's my guess. Anyway, the langauge should
be the language of the Quran, not necessarily the language
of first muslim. That's the key point.
I'm in the process of learning ARabic, and every day I see
things in it that amaze me, and I wonder why all muslims
aren't learning it? It's beautiful and unique.
No other language like it. Really.
Pradip Parekh
Pradip
Malcolm X Jihad wrote in message ...
PAK BALOCH
>You are accusing muhajirs of being racist but you are indulging in racism
>yourself so you are a typical munafiq.
You Muhajirs are habitual liers. Where did I call Muhajirs as dumb fucks or
niggers or motherfuckers like you did to Baluchs. You are a lowlife with no
izzat or ghairat.
>For your information, before the
>formation of Pakistan, muslims in UP and Hyderabad Deccan were very
>prosperous
>and your accusation that muhajirs had noting in india is baseless.
Very prosperous when? Maybe under Muslim rule about 200-300 years ago. Face the
truth moron, when the British took over in the 18th century, you guys were
nothing but 3rd class citizens. The British preferred a Hindu over a Muslim,
thereby making Hindus dominant in everything. If you claim that Muslims are
doing very good in India, then why dont you get the hell out of Pakistan and go
back to your prosperous Gangastan. I am sure you will be happy in India with
oppression of Indian Muslims, destruction of mosques and Muslim properties,
killings, rapes, poverty, discrimination, Hindu-Muslims riots, RSS, BJP, etc
> If we took
>hindu property, hindus also took the property we left in India.
Most of you Muhajirs had nothing in India, were poor and miserable, and when
you Muhajirs took over the fleeing Hindus properties in Pakistan, you people
became rich overnight by looting. You Muhajirs have no shame of greed and
selfishness, not to mention liers (about leaving jagirs in India).
> As for
>biharis, they fought Indian army and bengali nationalists in 1971. They did
>not participate in the mass killing and raping of civilians like punjabi
>army. > If bengalis hate us that is because biharis did not support bengali
>separatists.
You lier, stop giving pathetic excuses for the rapes, killings, lootings done
by your fellow Muhajirs (Biharis) in Bangladesh. Ask any Bangladeshi and he
will tell you how much hatred Bengalis have forMuhajirs for the crimes they
committed on them.
>It was sindhi Jinnah that made Urdu the national language since
First you Muhajirs claimed that Jinnah was a Gujrati Muhajir and since he
imposed Urdu now he is a Sindhi? Wow, you Muhajirs are pathetic. It was nobody
but the ruling Muhajir establishment of Pakistan that imposed Urdu on everyone.
And it was only you Muhajirs that are responsible for Bengali sufferings
leading to their separation.
>Urdu was used by the Muslims of the subcontinent to communicate with
>eachother
>before Pakistan was created.
That's a lie. Muslims of the sub-continent used to speak Farsi until the
arrival of British (for eight centuries). Urdu came into being only a couple of
centuries ago, promoted by the College of Fort William. Urdu became the
language of north Indian Muslims (UP, Delhi, etc) who dominated among all
Muslims of British India and extended their influence over them. But Urdu was
never accepted and is still not accepted among the majority of native
Pakistanis! Even the original Urdu which used to be very Persianised is
becoming Hindiized due to your Muhajir favourite cheap Indian movies
popularity.
PAK BALOCH
>If a small country like Switzerland can have four
>official languages, so can Pakistan. Let each province decide what
>they want.
Ok, now please explain what language would be used to communicate between the
people of all provinces and what language would be the unifying "national"
language?
PAK BALOCH
>
>-- The urban population has a greater proportion of Urdu speakers because
>Urdu
>is a second language for most of the population, and the urban population
>learns it in school. In the rural areas, the literacy rate is pitiful and
>therefore whether you have urdu or english or whatever as the official
>language, no one will learn it (other than the local language).
>
Agreed, but even most of the educated non-Muhajir native Pakistanis (who
learned Urdu) prefer not to speak Urdu. They are forced to learn and speak Urdu
unwillingly with resentment, only for communication in major cities. Native
Pakistanis resent Urdu because it is seen as domination and imposition of
language and culture of a people who constitute 9% of an ethnic minority
('Muhajirs') in Pakistan. It is discriminating and unfair to other native
languages of Pakistan. Also, it is because of Muhajir's racist cultural
superiority complex and arrogance.
PakRajput
You did not call muhajirs dumb fucks and niggers but you did call them racist
and arrogant and stereotyping does constitute racism you dumb fuck baloch. I
am a racist and I won't deny that. Why don't you accept that you are a racist
too.
Hey moron go and do some research. muslims of UP and Deccan were the most
educated and prosperous Muslims in the subcontinent. Before the partition,
Muslims in UP had 80% of high level jobs in UP. That is because of great
leadership of people like Sir Syed Ahmad Khan and Maulana Muhammad Ali Johar.
Muslims of other parts did not have good leaders that is why they stayed behind
in education. Muhajirs from Bihar and Rajasthan were poor. Gujrati Muslims
were rich. So we had rich and poor both. Muslims from UP, Deccan and Gujrat
were rich and Muslims from Bihar and Rajasthan were poor. Go do some research
you dumb fuck baloch. Again for bengali issue, I think I answered that
question last time. Biharis did fight against bengali nationalists because of
their love for Islam and Pakistan but biharis did not take part in massacring
and raping civilians. Army did that. I never claimed Jinnah was a Muhajir. I
don't what you talking about. Some muhajirs might say that since Khoja
community uses Gujrati language to communicate. Go to Karachi and see for
yourself. Even sindhi khojas talk in Gujrati with Gujrati businessmen. What
do you mean by ruling muhajir establishment? Liaqat Ali khan was the first and
last muhajir ruler. Are you saying that Ayub khan, yahya khan, bhutto and army
generals like niazi and tikka khan were muhajirs. You are one dumb jahil
baloch. As for urdu, read my message again jaahil. I said muslims of the
subcontinent used urdu before pakistan came into being and you say it is a lie.
They used farsi up till the arrival of Brits. Well tell me did not brits
arrive before pakistan came into being. Urud is a mixture of farsi and hindi.
Muslims of UP were hindi speaking but when urdu spread they became urdu
speaking. So they also gave up their language. My grand parents were from
Rajasthan and they spoke Rajasthani but in Pakistan we speak Urdu.
Gul Agha
pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
You don't unify a multi-ethnic society by imposing a single language.
You unify by developing mutual respect, cultural understanding and
tolerance. A few extra translators and interpreters are cheap by
comparison..
Pay Switzerland a visit and see how they did it. For centuries, the
Swiss -- with four languages -- have been more unifed than Pakistan
can ever dream to be. The French Swiss resisted Napolean, the German
Swiss resisted Germany.
All Swiss learn at least three languages besides English. It helps
broaden their perspectives.
--
Peace,
Gul Agha
naeem s.
>
>pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
>
>> >If a small country like Switzerland can have four
>> >official languages, so can Pakistan. Let each province decide what
>> >they want.
>
>> Ok, now please explain what language would be used to communicate
>> between the people of all provinces and what language would be the
>> unifying "national" language?
>
>You don't unify a multi-ethnic society by imposing a single language.
>You unify by developing mutual respect, cultural understanding and
>tolerance. A few extra translators and interpreters are cheap by
>comparison..
>
-- having a common language helps greatly in promoting that mutual respect and
understanding. If you can't talk to the person next to you what will you know
abt them ? The language barrier is one reason why even when they come out of
pakistan, Pakistanis of the different ethnic groups don't intermingle unless
they all speak urdu. I think the language barriers within Pakistan is a major
reason for the inter ethnic strife,
>Pay Switzerland a visit and see how they did it. For centuries, the
>Swiss -- with four languages -- have been more unifed than Pakistan
>can ever dream to be. The French Swiss resisted Napolean, the German
>Swiss resisted Germany.
>
>All Swiss learn at least three languages besides English. It helps
>broaden their perspectives.
-- But then again, the US has only 1 language and a few hundred ethnic
communities in it all communicating in the same way. Canada has both English
and French. Pakistan and India are not ethnically or linguistically
homogeneous societies, and the number of languages in use are far too many (if
you count minor ones too).
--Naeem--
naeem s.
>
>>
>>-- The urban population has a greater proportion of Urdu speakers because
>>Urdu
>>is a second language for most of the population, and the urban population
>>learns it in school. In the rural areas, the literacy rate is pitiful and
>>therefore whether you have urdu or english or whatever as the official
>>language, no one will learn it (other than the local language).
>>
>Agreed, but even most of the educated non-Muhajir native Pakistanis (who
>learned Urdu) prefer not to speak Urdu.
-- people are always more comfortable speaking in their own language at home.
latinos in the US speak Spanish and Balochis in the US speak Balochi at home,
right ?
>They are forced to learn and speak Urdu
>unwillingly with resentment, only for communication in major cities.
-- Urdu and English are the languages of commerce in Pakistan, much as English
is the lingua franca in the US/Canada. Whether you like it or not, you learn
it. If Quetta was the commercial hub of Pakistan, I'm sure more Balochi would
be spoken by everyone else.
>Native
>Pakistanis resent Urdu because it is seen as domination and imposition of
>language and culture of a people who constitute 9% of an ethnic minority
>('Muhajirs') in Pakistan. It is discriminating and unfair to other native
>languages of Pakistan.
-- I am of the opinion that Sindhi, Balochi, PUnjabi, Saraiki and Pushto
should be taught in schools of the respective provinces, and Urdu in areas
with majority Urdu speakers. Then we can all talk to each other.
> Also, it is because of Muhajir's racist cultural
>superiority complex and arrogance.
-- if you think we are superior, then that is ytour perogative. I personally
don't have any such complexes.
--Naeem--
Ek Pakistani
>
> All this just to ape arab culture? Pakistanis have no
> pride in themselves, that's why they have to try and
> mimic others. Much like that guy Louis Farakkhan
> who is not proud of his african identity and goes
> around with his islam nonsense.
>
>
HAHAHA....Says who pakistanis don't have pride dear? We are the cradle
of civilization...(indus valley culture) and the "aryans" you keep
refering to themselves are actually us sweetheart..(arya is hindu sanskrit
word, the same root from which we derive the word "sir)...you people are
referred to in the vedas as the "enemies of the vedic people" who were
eventually conquered and sanskritized( your language farsi comes from
sanskrit..the same language from which Panjabi, sindhi and Pakistan's
national language urdu are directly derived...) so next time you wanna
make tall claims about pakistanis...think again..you insecure little man.
Ek Pakistani
> As usual the Pakistanis know nothing except to copy. Pakistanis are good
> for nothing. Nothing new.
> > Bash Pakistan up into pieces.
With Pakistan's nuclear technology, looks like it could smash your
country up into pieces....you indo vermin
>
> Malcolm X Jihad <ad...@netcom.com> wrote in article
> <adam3Ez...@netcom.com>...
> In article <3606A8...@cisco.com> saad khan <sk...@cisco.com> writes:
> >Great! let's make Urdu the offical language of Islam,
> >and make the religious language Arabic.
> >Saad
>
> ARabic is the official and religious language of Islam and (should be)
> of Muslims. It's obvious. Quran is in Arabic. Arabic
> is the sine qua non of Islamic studies.
>
> Urdu, is an Islamicized language. Urdu vocabulary is filled with
> words borrowed from Arabic langauge. If you know Urdu and
> Arabic (both) you'll see so much in common in the 2 langauges.
> Farsi, another Islamicized langauge, also has a lot of
> ARabic words. Similary, turkish is like this I think.
>
>
>
MrMojoMan
To avoid unnecessary and unintentional cross-posting please delete all the
other news groups from the header before replying.
Regards;
---
--- MrMojoMan
---
Ek Pakistani wrote in message ...
MrMojoMan
To avoid unnecessary and unintentional cross posting please delete all the
other news groups from the header before replying.
Regards;
---
--- MrMojoMan
---
Ek Pakistani wrote in message ...
wt0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
> HAHAHA....Says who pakistanis don't have pride dear? We are the cradle
>of civilization...(indus valley culture) and the "aryans" you keep
>refering to themselves are actually us sweetheart..(arya is hindu sanskrit
>word, the same root from which we derive the word "sir)...you people are
>referred to in the vedas as the "enemies of the vedic people" who were
>eventually conquered and sanskritized( your language farsi comes from
>sanskrit..the same language from which Panjabi, sindhi and Pakistan's
>national language urdu are directly derived...) so next time you wanna
>make tall claims about pakistanis...think again..you insecure little man.
>
Actually that is incorrect. The Aryan people come from modern day Iran and
Iraq, they migrated thousands of years ago to India and Europe. They
conquered the darker people of Indai and put them into what we call a caste
system based on color of skin. The aryan's were much lighter hence the word
Aryan meaning blond hair and blue eyes. They controled this area with a
caste system insuring that the real Natives would never control this area
again. They actually made slaves out of the indo-pak area which was pretty
much dominated by the dravidian type looking people. They pressed most of
these people into the southern region of India. The darker you were the
more likely you were to be untouchable. The only reason people in these
areas look anything towards white is that the aryans did mix with some of
these people and lightened them up. The aryans are historically from Iran
and you can easily witness this by there color as compared to the rest of
the middle east and Indo-pak area. They are white in general. They also
bear more similarity in language to german than the other semetic languages
in the region. It may infact be that sanskrit is to the original aryan
language, that is OK, African American speak English the language given to
them by their masters, they do not speak Bantu, hausa, oIndians have some
aryan blood in them but they are not in general aryan, they have
language which was imposed on them.
MNaqvi
>Pakrajput has been very racist. May be he is Mohajir enemy in disguise. No
>Mohajir would ever support this kind of hate laguage as MR. Pakrajput has
>used
>it.
THE PAKRAJPUT TYPE OF URDU-SPEAKING PAKIS ARE FROM BIHAR, RAJASTHAN, ETC WHO
WERE HINDUS WITH NO DECENT BACKGROUND, THESE LOWLIFES ARE GENETICALLY
UNCIVILIZED RACIST TROUBLEMAKERS. URDU SPEAKING PAKIS FROM DELHI AND U.P. ARE
CIVILIZED EDUCATED PEOPLE WITH A DECENT BACKGROUND. NOTE THAT MANY DECENT URDU
SPEAKING PAKIS REFUSE TO BE CALLED MOHAJIRS. IT IS THESE SAVAGE URDU SPEAKING
PAKIS FROM BIHAR, RAJASTHAN, THAT GIVE A BAD NAME TO THE DECENT URDU SPEAKING
PAKIS FROM UP, DELHI.
PERVAIZ RIZVI
Mohagir it seems from your post are all alike they consider themselves
superior than others is this the sprit of Islam which they seem to keep
very dear to their heart this concept of superiority of one group over
the other is a harami hindoo concept
PakRajput
Abbay bhen kay loray naqvi, what were the people of UP and Dehli before they
converted to Islam. BTW Muslims of Rajasthan embraced Islam 900 years ago much
earlies then you upiads and dehlvis did.
Ranjit Mathews
> pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
>
> > >If a small country like Switzerland can have four
> > >official languages, so can Pakistan. Let each province decide what
> > >they want.
>
> > Ok, now please explain what language would be used to communicate
> > between the people of all provinces and what language would be the
> > unifying "national" language?
>
> You don't unify a multi-ethnic society by imposing a single language.
> You unify by developing mutual respect, cultural understanding and
> tolerance. A few extra translators and interpreters are cheap by
> comparison..
>
> Pay Switzerland a visit and see how they did it. For centuries, the
> Swiss -- with four languages -- have been more unifed than Pakistan
> can ever dream to be.
There's more to it that linguistic rights. They had a civil war in the
last century after which they devolved most functions to the Cantons and
limited the role of the Federal Government.
> The French Swiss resisted Napolean, the German
> Swiss resisted Germany.
There was no Germany till 1870 or so. The treaty of Wesphalia made
Switzerland independent of the Holy Roman Empire in the mid 17th century.
> All Swiss learn at least three languages besides English. It helps
> broaden their perspectives.
Three including English; English is optional in many schools but many /
most students (voluntarily) take it as an elective because they know that
it is to their advantage to do so and because it's a prerequisite for
many academic tracks at higher levels.
Gul Agha
Interestingly the Swiss German were the one's voting down joining the
EU -- apparently, fear of being swallowed up by Germany next door.
--
Peace,
Gul Agha
HRUSA1
Mr. Naqvi you are as rscit as Pakrajput. What's going on here. Is somebody
trying to paint a bad picture of Mohajirs. Is Pakrajput and naqvi the work on
one person?
All Human being no matter from where they are , are generally good people. Only
few individual sow the seeds of hatred. Bihar has been the seat of learning
since centuries. Biharis proved to be great and dependable sons of Pakistan.
Gujrati are great people too. The two persons who made India and Pakistan free
are from Gujrat. I mean Qaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah and Mahatma Gandhi.
Mutahir Kazmi
Pakistan Human Rights Watch
MNaqvi
MOST OF THE URDU SPEAKING PAKIS FROM UP AND DELHI ARE TRUE DESCENDENTS OF THE
MUSLIM RULING ELITE OF THE SUBCONTINENT WHO ORIGINALY CAME FROM AFGHANISTAN,
IRAN, CENTRAL ASIA AND ARABIA. YOU RAJASTHANI AND BIHARI URDU SPEAKING MUSLIMS
WERE NOTHING BUT HINDUS. BIHARIS WERE LOWCASTES AND RAJASTHANIS WERE RAJPUTS
LIKE YOU. RAJPUTS ARE DESCENDANTS OF THE BARBARIAN AND UNCIVILIZED HUNS. YOU
RAJPUTS WERE NOTHING BUT SLAVES OF BRAHMANS. WHEN MUSLIMS TRIED TO INVADE INDIA
IT WAS YOU LOWLIFE RAJPUTS THAT FOUGHT AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. AND AFTER THE
MUSLIMS COMPLETELY WHIPPED AND FUCKED YOUR ASS, YOU RAJPUTS WERE ONLY GOOD IN
SELLING YOUR WOMAN. RAJPUTS WERE FAMOUS FOR GIVING THEIR SISTERS AND MOTHERS
AWAY AS SEXUAL GIFTS TO THEIR MUSLIM MASTERS. SO WHERE IS YOUR SISTER PAKCHOOT?
MNaqvi
MR. I DONT HATE PAKISTANIS OR MUSLIMS. I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR DECENT
PUNJABIS, SINDHIS, PATANS, BALCHIS, GUJRATIS, UPITES (MYSELF), DELHVIS,
BIHARIS, HYDERABADIS, RAJASTHANIS, AND OTHERS. I AM JUST SICK AND TIRED OF URDU
SPEAKING PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES MOHAJIRS (I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT THEY
CALL THEMSELVES) WHO ARE MOSTLY FROM BIHAR AND RAJASTHAN AND ARE A VERY RACIST
AND HATEMONGERING TROUBLEMAKERS WHO GIVE A BAD NAME TO URDU SPEAKING PEOPLE
FROM UP AND DELHI. UPIITES AND DELHVIS HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THESE SAVAGE
BIHARIS AND RAJASTHANIS EXCEPT FOR THEIR ADOPTION OF URDU LANGUAGE.
PakRajput
<<
MOST OF THE URDU SPEAKING PAKIS FROM UP AND DELHI ARE TRUE DESCENDENTS OF THE
MUSLIM RULING ELITE OF THE SUBCONTINENT WHO ORIGINALY CAME FROM AFGHANISTAN,
IRAN, CENTRAL ASIA AND ARABIA. YOU RAJASTHANI AND BIHARI URDU SPEAKING MUSLIMS
WERE NOTHING BUT HINDUS. BIHARIS WERE LOWCASTES AND RAJASTHANIS WERE RAJPUTS
LIKE YOU. RAJPUTS ARE DESCENDANTS OF THE BARBARIAN AND UNCIVILIZED HUNS. YOU
RAJPUTS WERE NOTHING BUT SLAVES OF BRAHMANS. WHEN MUSLIMS TRIED TO INVADE INDIA
IT WAS YOU LOWLIFE RAJPUTS THAT FOUGHT AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. AND AFTER THE
MUSLIMS COMPLETELY WHIPPED AND FUCKED YOUR ASS, YOU RAJPUTS WERE ONLY GOOD IN
SELLING YOUR WOMAN. RAJPUTS WERE FAMOUS FOR GIVING THEIR SISTERS AND MOTHERS
AWAY AS SEXUAL GIFTS TO THEIR MUSLIM MASTERS. SO WHERE IS YOUR SISTER PAKCHOOT?
>>
So Rajputs were savage hindus but so were Arabs before they became Muslims.
Pre-Islamic Arabs used to bury their daughters alive. When Muslims from Middle
East invaded South Asia, only the Rajputs had the guts to fight them. All
other ethnic groups such as punjabis, hindis, gujratis were shaking with fear.
Have you ever heard of Chanda Rani who defeated emperor Akbar and Akbar had so
much respect for her that he made her his sister. She was a Muslim Rajput.
Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri chose Rajasthan to spread Islam and he
converted more people to Islam than any other sufi saint. As for giving the
women away, Mughals took pride in marrying Rajput women. Mughals only married
Rajput and persian women. Your UP is full of brothels where your women sell
their bodies. Lucknow is famous for whores. Lucknow and Lahore have
historically supplied whores to the rulers. Rajput women married rulers, they
were not whores like your upiad and punjabi women. As far as MQM is concerned,
Altaf hussein is a upiad. His family is from Agra. Go do some research
maderchod. And one more thing, how much do you sell your sister for, you cheap
upiad shia bastard.
Mo
P.G.Gopal
appear
to have contributed naught to the discussion, as the one's positive was negated by
the other's huge negative. Gandhi wanted very dearly to stand for the concept of he
one-ness of human spirit and in fact gave his life for Hindu Muslim amity and
Jinnah.........
HRUSA1 wrote:
> Mr. Naqvi you are as rscit as Pakrajput. What's going on here. Is somebody
> trying to paint a bad picture of Mohajirs. Is Pakrajput and naqvi the work on
> one person?
> All Human being no matter from where they are , are generally good people. Only
> few individual sow the seeds of hatred. Bihar has been the seat of learning
> since centuries. Biharis proved to be great and dependable sons of Pakistan.
> Gujrati are great people too. The two persons who made India and Pakistan free
J Raza
>
> Mr. HRUSA if the Mahatma and Jinnah were the representatives of Gujaratis, they
> appear
> to have contributed naught to the discussion, as the one's positive was negated by
> the other's huge negative. Gandhi wanted very dearly to stand for the concept of he
> one-ness of human spirit and in fact gave his life for Hindu Muslim amity and
> Jinnah.........
Standing for "one-ness of human sprit"? That's a very interesting way of
describing Gandhi's attempt to subject us all to Brahminist rule.
Gopi-lal, why don't you get lost from our newgroup?
Jamil
MNaqvi
>So Rajputs were savage hindus but so were Arabs before they became Muslims.
YES BUT YOU RAJPUTS ARE STILL SAVAGES EVEN AFTER CONVERTING TO ISLAM. AND YOU
ARE PROOF TO IT.
>Have you ever heard of Chanda Rani who defeated emperor Akbar and Akbar had
>so
>much respect for her that he made her his sister.
WHO CARES ABOUT THAT JAAHIL AKBAR WHO INVENTED ANOTHER RELIGION DEEN E ELAHI.
MAY BE YOU FOLLOW HIS RELIGION YOU KAFIR.
> As for giving the
>women away, Mughals took pride in marrying Rajput women. Mughals only
>married
>Rajput and persian women.
IT IS A KNOWN FACT THAT AFTER DEFEATS IN THE BATTLES THE RAJPUTS WILL GIVE AWAY
THEIR SISTERS AND DAUGHTERS AS SEXUAL TRIBUTE GIFTS TO THE VICTORIOUS MUGHALS.
YOU RAJPUTS ARE BEGHARAT AND SHAMELESS PEOPLE WHO WILL KISS YOUR MASTERS ASS BY
SELLING YOUR SISTERS AND DAUGHTERS. DURING THE MUSLIM RULE IN INDIA, DELHI AND
UP WHICH WERE THE BASE OF MUSLIM RULING ELITE, RAJPUT AND HINDU PROSTITUTES
WERE THE ONLY WOMEN IN THE HERAMS OF UP AND DELHI FOR MUSLIM PLEASURES.
NOT TO MENTION SATI WAS ALSO A FAVOURITE CUSTOM AMONG DUMBASS RAJPUTS, YOU
DUMB FUCK RAJPUTS DID WHATEVER THE BRAHMINS TOLD YOU, YOU BRAINLESS RAJPUTS
SHOULD BE CALLED BRAHMINPUTS.
>Your UP is full of brothels where your women sell
>their bodies. Lucknow is famous for whores. Lucknow and Lahore have
>historically supplied whores to the rulers.
YES, LUCKNOW WAS FAMOUS FOR BROTHELS, BUT ALL THE PROSTITUTES IN UP ARE ONLY
HINDU AND RAJPUT WOMEN. RAJPUT PROSTITUTES ARE A FAVOURITE IN UP.
>And one more thing, how much do you sell your sister for, you cheap
>upiad shia bastard.
FIRST I DONT HAVE A SISTER, SECOND UPIADS ARE NOT SHAMELESS PEOPLE LIKE RAJPUTS
WHO WILL SELL THEIR SISTERS AND DAUGHTERS, THIRD I AM NOT SHIA. SO LONG
PAKCHOOT.
gailani
wrote:
>On 23 Sep 1998 08:40:19 -0500, Gul Agha <ag...@yangtze.cs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>>pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
>>
>>> >If a small country like Switzerland can have four
>>> >official languages, so can Pakistan. Let each province decide what
>>> >they want.
>>
>>> Ok, now please explain what language would be used to communicate
>>> between the people of all provinces and what language would be the
>>> unifying "national" language?
>>
>>You don't unify a multi-ethnic society by imposing a single language.
>>You unify by developing mutual respect, cultural understanding and
>>tolerance. A few extra translators and interpreters are cheap by
>>comparison..
>>
>-- having a common language helps greatly in promoting that mutual respect and
>understanding.
####
Naeem , I have to differ here with you, 50 years of Urdu could not
unify Pakistanis of different ethnicities, even more hatred and
polarization is emerging. I have to agree with Gul Agha here that
language alone could not bring people together. it is the equal
trament, justice, mutual respect, tolerance and basic human decency
which will unify people.
>If you can't talk to the person next to you what will you know
>abt them ?
####
Even learning Urdu did not gave Pathans, Punjabis , Baluchis any
respect in Karachi. Altaf Bhai tried to ethnically cleanse all of
them. Speaking the same language could not save a punjabi from a
punjabi police man's brutality. Speaking the same langugae could not
bring any respect to a Sindhi hari from animalistic Wadera. Same goes
for Baluchistan and NWFP.
>The language barrier is one reason why even when they come out of
>pakistan, Pakistanis of the different ethnic groups don't intermingle unless
>they all speak urdu.
#### they still could not intermingle even with the common
language, religion and culture. IMHO the reason is greed. No one
thinks of
> I think the language barriers with in Pakistan is a major
>reason for the inter ethnic strife,
####
Again I will reiterate it is not the language but the vision
and repsct for other's beliefs and general tolerance and commitment to
the basic laws of humanity which unite people. Same language, culture,
religion alone are not a unifying glue. Few examples, Kuwait & Iraq.
Ireland, Korea etc etc
>-- But then again, the US has only 1 language and a few hundred ethnic
>communities in it all communicating in the same way. Canada has both English
>and French.
#####
general supremacy of law for all is the key. Give you an example,
years back when i just came in USA , I got involved in an accident
where the light was malfunctioning and i had the yellow blinking light
on my side and red was on the other side . i stopped and then
proceeded but an idiot came in front of me from the middle lane which
i could not see when I stopped before moving. Anyway i got hit by a
late model mercedez and this diiot who looked like some executives,
started yelling at me. When I argued back that it was my right to
proceed first, he said my ass you right, you aliens have no rights
here. Anyway police-man came and after hearing both side stories, gave
him ticket and asked me to leave after making sure i am not hurt. few
months later after this incident i visited Yemen. During a gathering
of Pakistani community there(mostly very well to do bankers,
engineers, doctors) , I was told if you get in an accident with some
local yemeni involved, try to get out of it with paying some money to
the yemeni even if it was his fault. Because the Qazi will always
favour a Yemeni over you if case goes to him. My point of narrating
all this is that even same religion will not bring people together
unless they stick to basics of humanity and equality of law for all.
How our Arab brothers treat us, I guess is no secret to you and me.
> Pakistan and India are not ethnically or linguistically
>homogeneous societies, and the number of languages in use are far too many (if
>you count minor ones too).
####
It is good if all factions involved , to agree on one language to
communicate but should never be forced . Plus the people whome native
language is given this honor, should make sure all other languages are
also promoted at their level and respected.
regards,
gailani
>--Naeem--
HRUSA1
I fuuly agree with Syed Gailani as far as his views on the language are
concerned. The basic thing is rule of law not, language or religion. If
discrimination in any shape or from is practiced then no matter what arguments
you bring to cover it, there can never be any unity in a community or nation.
The problem of Pakistan has been that arrogant rulers have been playing with
the respect of people. Once they riducled people and got away with it they
though they are mighty and would crush ant one that came their way. They forgot
one thing. The one that got injustice may be defeated but would never forget
and forgive. Will hit back in his own time.
Those who are engaged in Bhaya-Pindoo talk simply are unaware of their own
respect. They are the breed that do not know how divinely and how spirit
rousing is to treat and be treated with respect. These people get garbage
thrown back on them , even on their mothers and sisters. They do notknow that
these are heavenly relationship and if the use obscene language for somebody
elses mother
they infact are puting their own innocent mother in that position.
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Pakistan's national language should be Arabic or
>Farsi
>From: sy...@bellsouth.net (gailani)
>Date: Sat, Sep 26, 1998 14:58 EDT
>Message-id: <360d3889...@news.mia.bellsouth.net>
PakRajput
<<
YES BUT YOU RAJPUTS ARE STILL SAVAGES EVEN AFTER CONVERTING TO ISLAM. AND YOU
ARE PROOF TO IT.
>>
So you are saying that Arabs are not still savages. Who is killing who in Iraq
and syria etc. BTW if I am a savage then you are a bigger savage than me
since you started this arguments.
<<
WHO CARES ABOUT THAT JAAHIL AKBAR WHO INVENTED ANOTHER RELIGION DEEN E ELAHI.
MAY BE YOU FOLLOW HIS RELIGION YOU KAFIR.
>>
Hey you dumb bhosri kay did I say I follow his religion. Maderchod learn to
read. And you have called a Muslim a Kafir which makes you a kafir according
to the fatwa of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
<<
YES, LUCKNOW WAS FAMOUS FOR BROTHELS, BUT ALL THE PROSTITUTES IN UP ARE ONLY
HINDU AND RAJPUT WOMEN. RAJPUT PROSTITUTES ARE A FAVOURITE IN UP.>>
That is a lie. Everyone knows that in Lucknow most prostitutes were upiad
shias and you won't find any shias among Rajputs. It is your women that sell
their bodies in those brothels. And you consider yourself a middle eastern,
well go to Middle East and see if those Arabs and persians will accept you as
one of them. Truth is that you are illegitimate descendant of middle
easterners.
<<
FIRST I DONT HAVE A SISTER, SECOND UPIADS ARE NOT SHAMELESS PEOPLE LIKE RAJPUTS
WHO WILL SELL THEIR SISTERS AND DAUGHTERS, THIRD I AM NOT SHIA. SO LONG
PAKCHOOT.
>>
Well if they are not shameless then why are there upiad shia women in Lucknow
brothels. Your screenname shows your shia idenitity. Naqvis are shia. You are
an illegitimate descendant of Iranian invaders. You shias have always tried to
divide Muslims. When crusaders invaded Muslim lands, you helped crusaders and
Salahuddin kicked your butts real good. Now talibans will kick your butts.
What more can be a proof of your shamefulness. You call a Muslim person Kafir
just because his ancestors were kafir. Your jahalat is unbelieveable. Who
were the ancestors of Sahabas?
MNaqvi
>So you are saying that Arabs are not still savages.
DUMBASS MORON YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID THAT ARABS USED TO BE SAVAGES UNTIL THEY
CONVERTED TO ISLAM.
>BTW if I am a savage then you are a bigger savage than me
>since you started this arguments.
NO, ACTUALLY YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS SHIT. YOU HAVE BEEN CURSING OUT
SHIAS, PATHANS, BALUCHIS, PUNJABIS, SINDHIS FOR A LONG TIME AND GIVING A BAD
NAME TO ALL URDU-SPEAKERS.
>Hey you dumb bhosri kay did I say I follow his religion. Maderchod learn to
>read.
ABAY RAJPUT RUNDEE KAY NAJAIZ AULAD THEN WHY THE FUCK YOU WERE GIVING EXAMPLES
OF AKBAR AND SHOWING YOUR LOVE TO HIM.
> And you have called a Muslim a Kafir which makes you a kafir according
>to the fatwa of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
YOU HYPOCRITE HARAMI BHENCHOD, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN CALLING SHIAS,
PUNJABIS, PATHANS, AND OTHERS AS KAFIRS FOR A LONG TIME. BY THAT YOU HAVE
PROVEN TO BE A KAFIR THATS WHY I CALLED YOU A KAFIR.
>That is a lie. Everyone knows that in Lucknow most prostitutes were upiad
>shias and you won't find any shias among Rajputs.
YOU LIER. YOU RAJPUTS ARE SHAMELESS PEOPLE FOR NOT ONLY SELLING YOUR
SISTERS/DAUGTERS BUT ALSO FOR LYING. I HAVE VISITED UP (LUCKNOW) A FEW TIMES
AND I HAVE RELATIVES THERE. THERE ARE NO MUSLIM PROSTITUTES THERE INCLUDING
SHIAS. THE ONLY PROSTITUTES THERE ARE HINDUS WHICH MOST OF WHOM ARE RAJPUTS.
THESE RAJPUT WOMEN HAVE MADE PROSTITUTION THEIR PROFESSION SINCE THE TIME THE
MUSLIMS INVADED INDIA. WHEN THE MUSLIMS DEFEATED THE RAJPUTS, THE BEGHARAT
RAJPUTS GAVE THEIR SISTERS AND DAUGHTERS AS TRIBUTARY GIFTS OF SEXUAL PLEASURES
TO THER NEW VICTORIOUS MUSLIM MASTERS. THESE RAJPUT RUNDEES ARE REALLY CHEAP IN
UP, MY COUSIN TOLD ME THEY SELL THEIR BODIES FOR 10 RUPEES EACH.
>And you consider yourself a middle eastern,
>well go to Middle East
HEY JAHIL MORON, I AM NOT SAYING THAT I AM MIDDLEEASTERN, BUT MY ROOTS ARE
MIDDLEEASTERN (FROM IRAN). OUR FAMILY LOOKS ARE LIGHT SKIN WITH GREEN EYES. WE
HAVE A COMPLETE FAMILY TREE RECORD PROVING THE ORIGIN OF OUR ANCESTORS.
>Your screenname shows your shia idenitity. Naqvis are shia.
HEY YOU RETARD, NOT ALL NAQVIS ARE SHIAS. MANY NAQVIS HAD BECOME SUNNIS. JUST
LIKE NOT ALL HUSSEINS ARE SHIAS. YOU ARE THE MOST IGNORANT PERSON I HAVE EVER
SEEN.
Shailendra Goswami
As we all understand know, it's all Chinese or Korean.
You retarded Paki!!!
MNaqvi
ABAY PAKRATCHOOT:
SALAY BHOSRI KAY, WHY THE FUCK YOU LOWLIFE RAJASTHANI RAJPUT CLAIM ON AOL BOARD
TO BE DESCENDENT OF GREAT LEADERS LIKE U.P.'S SYED BARELVI OR DECCAN'S TIPU
SULTAN. YOU RAJASTHANI SHITHEADS NEVER HAD ANY MUSLIM LEADERS. STOP TRYING TO
BE A UPITE YOU DUMB FUCK LOWLIFE RAJASTHANI RAJPUT BARBARIAN. ALL RESPECTFUL
MUSLIM LEADERS IN INDIA WERE UPITES AND PAKISTAN MOVEMENT WAS STARTED BY
UPITES, WHILE YOU RAJASTHANI RAJPUTS WERE SELLING THEIR SISTERS/DAUGHTERS AND
LIVING LIKE BARBARIANS.
PERVAIZ RIZVI
> P.G.Gopal wrote:
> >
> > Mr. HRUSA if the Mahatma and Jinnah were the representatives of
> Gujaratis, they
> > appear
> > to have contributed naught to the discussion, as the one's positive
> was negated by
> > the other's huge negative. Gandhi wanted very dearly to stand for
> the concept of he
> > one-ness of human spirit and in fact gave his life for Hindu Muslim
> amity and
> > Jinnah.........
>
> Standing for "one-ness of human sprit"? That's a very interesting way
> of
> describing Gandhi's attempt to subject us all to Brahminist rule.
>
> Gopi-lal, why don't you get lost from our newgroup?
>
BEING A HARAMI HINDOO HE WOULD DO SO ONLY WHEN WE MAKE HIM DHOTI LAL
PakRajput
Abbay bhen kay loray, those people were my spiritual ancestors. Tipu Sultan
was South Indian not a upiad you jaahil ganwar gandu. You are a low life
shudar who ancestors were raped by muslim invaders so you now claim middle
eastern roots. Main teri maa chodoon bhan kay loray. You can't say whatever
you are saying now if you were standing in front of me. You would be peeing in
your pants if I was 2 feet from you.
PakRajput
<<
DUMBASS MORON YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID THAT ARABS USED TO BE SAVAGES UNTIL THEY
CONVERTED TO ISLAM.>>
That is because you accused rajputs of being savages. So if arabs are savages
and were savages, then that makes them no different than rajputs in your
opinion.
<<
NO, ACTUALLY YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS SHIT. YOU HAVE BEEN CURSING OUT
SHIAS, PATHANS, BALUCHIS, PUNJABIS, SINDHIS FOR A LONG TIME AND GIVING A BAD
NAME TO ALL URDU-SPEAKERS.
>>
Hey bhenchod, go and read my messages were responses to PakBaloch and Azam
Khan's racist posts. I cursed them because they cursed muhajirs.
sha
I wrote to you personally, because I knew you would certainly read it.
Further,
I know Pakistanis are not all dumb like yourself and I didn't want to
upset them
with the same language that you seem to understand (i.e.Profanity).
That's why I
didn't write to the Newsgroups, but if that's what you want, well here
goes.....
For your information, the father of the Indian Nuclear Program is Dr.
Abul Kalam.
India developed it's own nuclear program and space program. Yes, it
asked for
help from many countrys, but non came forward to help. Oh, they'll
blowup the
world. You don't need it they said. You have other more serious problems
to think
of they said. True. But India was not deterred and developed it's own,
and it is for
this reason, that they were very proud to explode the first nuclear
device in 1973!!
Unlike you Pakis, we didn't get weapons handed to us from Chinky friends
as a
result of GIVING AWAY parts of Kashmir or bending our asses for
them!!!!!!!!!!
Furthermore, India had already exploded it's first Nuclear weapon in
1973, and recently
when it exploded 5 it put your Paki assess in shits. The whole of
Pakiland was in disarray,
burning the Indian and American flags. The country held an emergency
meeting as to what
steps should be taken and then it was decided to explode 5 weapons in
retaliation at the great
expense of the country's economy!!!!!! Now your economy is fucked up. So
whose shalwar
is now FULL OF SHIT you sad uneducated, ill-informed, inbreeding
Paki!!!!!!!!!!
On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Shailendra Goswami wrote:
HAHAHA The very technology thats making your pujari ugly ass BJp piss
in
its nylon lungis....Chinease or korean? hahaha wel we all know India is
dependant on russia and has been since before the cold war era....Now
don't send me personal emails boy...if you want everyone to see your
comments...post them as followup...
typical indooo
Ranjit Mathews
> HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Yourself Paki.
> I wrote to you personally, because I knew you would certainly read it.
> Further,
> I know Pakistanis are not all dumb like yourself and I didn't want to
> upset them
> with the same language that you seem to understand (i.e.Profanity).
> That's why I
> didn't write to the Newsgroups, but if that's what you want, well here
> goes.....
> For your information, the father of the Indian Nuclear Program is Dr.
> Abul Kalam.
If you go back far enough, it's Homi Bhaba.
Turkish, Persian and Arabic.
ank...@my-dejanews.com
people speak Punjabi and rest speak Sindhi,Baloch etc.? National language or
mother language is the language that people speak in their normal life and
learn it from their elders(mothers and fathers) not a language that they
learn in school from a language teacher. Make all the languages(Punjabi,
Sindhi, English..) spoken in Pakistan as your national languages and then see
how fast the literacy rate of Pakistan goes up. Teaching illiterate people
foreign languages is really not a great way to imprive literacy.
All the languages are beatiful to its speakers. There should not be a
contest of who is better or worse. Point is Pakistanis should look inside
Pakistan for their roots as for their culture and language goes not outside
of Pakistan.
I like Urdu in its own way. It is a beatuful language. In fact ,I am learning
it as a hobby although I love my mother language Punjabi. English was my
eduactional need. I learned English for the same reason I learned Math and
Physics. I was taught Hindi though I never learned it and as result I kind
of ended up avoiding it but on the other hand no one ever mentioned Urdu in
my life and I still like to learn it. Idea is to let people learn a language
that they think is theirs and not let the politicians and rulers to tell you
what is your language. You know it is better. I got to run more later on...
------Shukria--------------
Ankhila - A Real Punjabi Gabroo
--------------------------------
In article <360684af...@nntp.uunet.ca>,
na...@interlog.com.nospam (naeem s.) wrote:
> On 21 Sep 1998 08:42:23 -0500, Gul Agha <ag...@yangtze.cs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >pakb...@aol.com (PAK BALOCH) writes:
> >
> >> After 51 years of Pakistan's creation, an overwhelming majority of
> >> Pakistanis still dont understand Urdu. Except for major cities, go
> >> to interior Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP and Punjab.... and then tell me
> >> how many people know Urdu. On an overall statistics only 35% of
> >> Pakistanis know Urdu.
> >
> >This is true. In many Sindhi rural areas, no one understands Urdu.
> >In many Balochi ones close to Sindh, it is easier to find people who
> >understand Sindhi than Urdu.
> >
>
> -- The urban population has a greater proportion of Urdu speakers because Urdu
> is a second language for most of the population, and the urban population
> learns it in school. In the rural areas, the literacy rate is pitiful and
> therefore whether you have urdu or english or whatever as the official
> language, no one will learn it (other than the local language).
>
> --Naeem--
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
P.G.Gopal
to reach the dizzy heights that he ascends with such effortless ease, but
Mr. Raza, I wonder if you possess the deed of ownership that you claim to
the news group which specifically excludes persons like me. Firstly you will
have to define me as belonging to a proscribed group: I belong to many
groups. Firstly, I am a human being, though , you and people of your ilk
might not entirely believe it. Secondly I also am a US citizen who
previously happened to be a citizen of India. Prior to being a citizen of
India I was a subject of the King Emperor, George VI, as all the older folk
in the sub continent, now extant,were. And speaking for the erudite, "other"
Mr. Rizvi, I am also a Harami Hindu and if he is much exercised and wishes
in addition to exercise his inimitable poetic license, Harami Hindoooo, the
number of o's signifying the extent and depth of his contempt and disdain
both for the religion and the presumably cowering victim.
I would look forward to hearing from you chapter and verse( if I had the
time and I wish to tarry on SCP) on how I do not qualify to contribute to
ANY group that is not moderated. I do not write overt nonsense.( covert
nonsense properly disguised is I presume the universal language of the net.)
I do not use bad language. I just state my opinions in hopefully no
uncertain terms. However, I in future will treat all messages( unless I find
something specially prurient, either literally or metaphorically, that I
cannot and will not avoid) SOLELY on SCP as the private preserve of the
holders of the perfect faith, like the noble and erudite "other" Mr. Rizvi
and the noble Khan, the one literally thrives on calling ,alternatively,
Indians and Hindus, scum bags if not worse and and you Mr. Raza , whom I
cannot really fathom. How a person who sometimes writes sensible things gets
into hateful speech. What are the buttons Mr.Raza that if pressed, turn your
Dr. Jekyll personality into the Mr. Hyde that is so commonplace in SCP and
SCI ? By the way, treat my last question as purely a rhetorical one, as I am
signing off from the group.
About the merits Gandhi Vs Jinnah, I will take the word of people like
Albert Einstein, Romain Rolland, Albert Schweitzer, Eric
Ericsson,Rabindranath Tagore, Clement Atlee, Gaffar Khan, Franklin Delano
Roosevelt etc. speak for me, on the relative merits of the two deceased
gentlemen. Also the relative success of the two commemorating movies,
Attenborough's and Ben Kingsley's Gandhi with a bushel load of academy
awards and the recent release on Jinnah should do the speaking. Are Chris
Lee and his fellow ghouls, so appropriately cast for the Jinnah movie,
slated for similar accolades ?.
Sayonara, Namaste, Khuda Hafiz, Ciao, Auf
Wiedersehen, unzoweiter with the slight proviso given above. And despite
your dislike for the word, Peace.
Gopal
naeem s.
>>>You don't unify a multi-ethnic society by imposing a single language.
>>>You unify by developing mutual respect, cultural understanding and
>>>tolerance. A few extra translators and interpreters are cheap by
>>>comparison..
>>>
>>-- having a common language helps greatly in promoting that mutual respect and
>>understanding.
>####
>Naeem , I have to differ here with you, 50 years of Urdu could not
>unify Pakistanis of different ethnicities, even more hatred and
>polarization is emerging. I have to agree with Gul Agha here that
>language alone could not bring people together. it is the equal
>trament, justice, mutual respect, tolerance and basic human decency
>which will unify people.
>
-- I didn't imply that language was the ONLY factor. It is one of the factors.
And as far as law and order, justice, mutual respect etc. are concerned, they
are a given. But if we had all of that, we wouldn't be arguing. But exactly
how are we going to get all of this ? linguistic isolation is only going to
create even more ghettoisation of the different ethnicities in pakistan.
>>If you can't talk to the person next to you what will you know
>>abt them ?
>####
>Even learning Urdu did not gave Pathans, Punjabis , Baluchis any
>respect in Karachi. Altaf Bhai tried to ethnically cleanse all of
>them.
-- Gailani saheb, I hate the MQM as much as anyone else, but accusing them of
ethnic cleansing is a bit far fetched. And if some people do not respect
Punjabis or Pathans in karachi, that is their problem, much as fluent Punjabi
speaking Muhajirs in Lahore are treated badly by some Lahorites. I don't think
the general population is like that. My family is intermarried into Punjabis
and I cannot accept such generalisations.
>Speaking the same language could not save a punjabi from a
>punjabi police man's brutality. Speaking the same langugae could not
>bring any respect to a Sindhi hari from animalistic Wadera. Same goes
>for Baluchistan and NWFP.
>
-- You are intertwining language with social problems. They are not related.
My point is : how can we practically bring the Sindhi and the Muhajoir and the
Punjabi closer ? A high level, 'justice for all' is not sufficient.
>> Pakistan and India are not ethnically or linguistically
>>homogeneous societies, and the number of languages in use are far too many (if
>>you count minor ones too).
>####
> It is good if all factions involved , to agree on one language to
>communicate but should never be forced . Plus the people whome native
>language is given this honor, should make sure all other languages are
>also promoted at their level and respected.
-- agreed.
--Naeem--
MNaqvi
>That is because you accused rajputs of being savages. So if arabs are
>savages
>and were savages, then that makes them no different than rajputs in your
>opinion.
>
ABAY BEWAQOOF PAKRATCHOOT, WHY ARE YOU LOWLIFE UNCIVILIZED RAJPUTS COMPARING
YOURSELF WITH ARABS. WHAT A JOKE. ARABS WERE CIVILIZED PEOPLE AND FAMOUS FOR
THEIR INCREDIBLE WORK ON SCIENCE, ASTRONMY, MEDICINE, MATHEMATICS, PHILOSOPHY,
TRADE, ETC BUT YOU SAVAGE RAJPUTS HAVE DONE NOTHING EXCEPT FOR SELLING YOUR
DAUGHTERS/SISTERS AND BEING BARBARIAN WARRIORS, EVEN AFTER CONVERTING TO ISLAM.
OYE JAHIL GANDOO BTW EVEN IF SOME PEOPLE WERE SAVAGE LIKE RAJPUTS, SO WHAT?
SEEMS LIKE IF SOME PEOPLE WILL EAT SHIT YOU BRAINLESS RAJPUTS WILL ALSO EAT
SHIT. YOU RAJPUTS ARE DUMB FUCK MORONS NO WONDER SATI (WIDOW BURNING) WAS A
FAVOURITE CUSTOM AMONG RAJPUTS.
>I cursed them because they cursed muhajirs.
>
HEY MADARKOOS, YOU NOT ONLY CURSED THEM OUT, BUT YOU CURSED THEIR WHOLE RACE.
MNaqvi
>Abbay bhen kay loray, those people were my spiritual ancestors.
SPIRITUAL ANCESTORS? HAHAHA. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SUPPOSE TO BE MORON? STOP
TRYING TO CLAIM YOUR ANCESTORY FROM UPITES. UPITES HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH
YOU SAVAGE RAJASTHANI RAJPUTS.
>Tipu Sultan
>was South Indian not a upiad you jaahil ganwar gandu.
ABAY JAHIL RUNDEE KI AULAD TRY TO LEARN HOW TO READ. I DID SAY HE WAS FROM
DECCAN/SOUTH INDIA.
>You are a low life
>shudar who ancestors were raped by muslim invaders so you now claim middle
>eastern roots.
NO, UPIDES AND DELHVIS ARE TRUE DECENDANTS OF THE MUSLIM INVADERS THEMSELVES.
IT IS YOU RAJPUTS WHO WERE RAPED BY OUR ANCESTORS (MUSLIM INVADERS). NOT TO
MENTION YOU BEGHAIRAT RAJPUTS WOULD GIVE AWAY THEIR SISTERS/DAUGHTERS AS
TRIBUTARY GIFTS OF SEXUAL PLEASURES (RUNDIS) TO THE MUSLIM RULERS.
>Main teri maa chodoon bhan kay loray. You can't say whatever
>you are saying now if you were standing in front of me. You would be peeing
>in
>your pants if I was 2 feet from you.
>
HAHAHA, DREAMON FAGGOT. I AM 6'4" WITH MUSCULAR BUILT. YOU LITTLE RAJASTHANI
WHUS WILL CRY YOUR ASS OFF ONCE I BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF YOU. YOU WHINNING PUNK.
PakRajput
<<
SPIRITUAL ANCESTORS? HAHAHA. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SUPPOSE TO BE MORON? STOP
TRYING TO CLAIM YOUR ANCESTORY FROM UPITES. UPITES HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH
YOU SAVAGE RAJASTHANI RAJPUTS.
>>
You stop claiming middle eastern ancestory, you dark skinned upiads are not
Arabs, persians and turks. You were low caste hindu shoodars who were
converted to Islam and adopted middle eastern surnames. If you were truly
middle easterner then you would look like people of middle east which
apparently you don't. It is not so hard changing your last name in that
part of the world. I have seen many kunjras and kasais becoming Syeds.
According to historians, many Muslim immigrants became syed when they came to
Pakistan. At least my family did not change their last name. But I do know one
family from UP who were Kunjras(vegetable sellers) who became Chohan all of a
sudden. SO harami ki aulad you are also one of those shudar low lifes who were
ashamed of their origins that is why you change your last name.
PakRajput
Hey munafiq so what if I cursed their whole race. You have been cursing my
whole race and also biharis. What makes you any different than me. Gandu you
have no right to lecture me. I admit I am a racist and prejudiced person. Why
don't you admit that you are a racist and prejudiced person too. You have this
superiority complex that people of UP are superior. You also have this notion
that you somehow are Iranian. If you are iranian go back to Iran. We don't
your likes in the Indian subcontinet you harami iranian. LOOK AFGHAN ARE
COMING TO KICK YOUR ASS.
Mo
dividing force..
Mo
born again fool..
from pakistanlink.com
MANSEHRA: Defying neighboring Iran's reported withdrawal of
a religious decree calling for death of blasphemous "Satanic
Versus" author Salman Rushdi, a leading Pakistani clergy
Monday fixed $ 5 million as Rushdi's head money.
Central Secretary General of Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI),
Maulana Ghafoor Haideri addressing a gathering of Ulema said
the decree against Rushdi could not be withdrawn by Iran.
"The decree did not relate to Khomeini or Khatami, as it is
the fundamental belief of all the Muslims that whosoever
commits blasphemy deserves to be put to death." He said that
the Muslims cannot tolerate disrespect being shown to their
beloved Prophet (PBUH).
A pro-Taliban JUI leader warned that Iran-Afghanistan war
was likely to spread to whole of the region. He advised Iran
to use commonsense and avoid war.
Maulana Ghafoor appealed to the Ulema to come forward and
"wage a Taliban-like movement" inside Pakistan. --NNI
Mo
KARACHI: Pakistan's coastal province of Sindh, the richest
of country's four provinces -- Punjab, Balochistan and NWFP,
is today at the verge of bankruptcy.
Sindh is second to Punjab as it contributes more than 70
percent in the federal taxes and its contribution to the
national income is estimated at 40 percent compared to its
population of around 26 percent, according to a
comprehensive report published by English daily The Muslim
on Monday.
The paper prodded into the cause and effects of province's
economic woes. It said blessed with the assets like two
seaports and largest international airport accommodating
over 95 % of country's foreign trade worth $ 20 billion the
government of Sindh today, ironically, looks to the federal
government for financial help. The province has serious
reservations about the monetary share it has been allocated
under the latest National Finance Commission Award.
With 90 % of the head offices of banks, financial
institutions, multinational companies and the largest stock
exchange of the country, the province is ironically the
financial and commercial hub of the country.
The commercial and industrial wealth of the province
includes industrial estate of Korangi, Kandhi, North Karachi
Industrial Areas, Karachi Export Processing Zone, Port Qasim
and the largest complex of Steel Mills and most of the
automobile industry of trading houses, wholesale markets,
retailers, distributors and commission agents.
Also rich in natural resources, the province has been the
largest producer of oil since many years and now its
production of natural gas has surpassed that of Balochistan.
It's local resources, with more than 95 percent of the
country's known deposits in Thar and Ikhra have not been
explored due to the apathy of the decision makers and will
remain unutilized in the foreseeable future in agriculture.
But the root cause of Sindh's financial collapse remains the
inequitable revenue sharing arrangement thrust on the
province in the shape of the 1996 National Finance
Commission (NFC) Award.
The demand of the Sindh province that revenue sharing should
not be based on population alone, but should follow other
factors such as, specific needs, poverty and extent of
existing economic developments in devising the distributions
formula were set aside in the 1990 NFC award.
Sindh's financial difficulties started in 1991-92 during
that Jam Sadiq era on account of the adverse 1990 NFC Award
coupled with over extravagant and lavish expenditure of the
then government officials.
Culminating in an overdraft balance of nearly Rs. 6.5
billion when the second PPP government took charge in
October 1993, all his sins were either ignored or forgotten
as he had pursued the policy of vicious persecution of anti
PPP people during his tenure and the downfall continued.
Even the State Bank kept mum and allowed the province to
overdraw such a huge amount, which was against financing
limit of less than Rs. 100 million at that time.
The overwhelming domination of one province in the Pakistani
politics is reflected in almost everything and everywhere as
the rights of the smaller provinces continuously usurped.
The largest province having a population over 57 percent (as
per 1981 census) demonates all organs of the state including
the parliament, judiciary, bureaucracy and the army, both at
the federal level as well at the provincial levels.
The problem is further exacerbated due to the nature of our
constitution, which provides minimal real power and autonomy
to the provinces, with most of the legislative power
remaining in the domain of the federation.
In addition, almost all types of major taxes are provided to
the federal government. This includes taxes such as the
sales tax, which is universally considered as provincial.
In this scenario, the provinces are dependent on the
federation for the bulk of their resources, which invariably
come from the federal divisible pool under the formula
determined by the National Finance Commission, under Article
160 of the Constitution.
This has caused Sindh's current NFC arrangement persists;
there is no possibility of any meaningful development
programs being executed in this province during the five
years period of the award.
During this periled, the province will constantly remain
under the threat of default of the extent that at some stage
it may not even be able to pay salaries to its 450,000
national finance commission (NFC) award.
When the founders of the 1996 NFC award proposed to revise
the formula for distribution of revenues between the
federation and the provinces from 20:80 to 62.5, 37.5, all
the provinces expressed serious objections. Because, this
drastic change in favour of the federation was expected to
reduce the share of the provinces from 80 percent to 37.5
percent in the federal divisible pool.
None of the provinces realized it at that time that the
projections of revenue made by the federal government were
only hypothetical using the revenue sharing formula adopted
in the NFC Award.
The extent of which the figures of the revenue were inflated
in the 1996 award, can be gauged from the comparison between
the actual revenue receipts in 1996-97 (the bench mark year)
and 1997-98 (first year of the five year NFC period), with
the revenue projections as per the NFC Award.
Even assuming that the tax revenues, which did not grow at
all in the last two years, would grow at the rate of 18
percent annum in the remaining four years of the NFC period
(a most optimistic forecast), would not be able to meet the
shortfall in revenues in the five years period which will be
a staggering Rs.839 billion.
It is obvious that such shortfalls cannot be accidental,
rather, they were part of a cleverly designed scheme to fool
the provinces.
Consistent with previous awards, all the important demands
of Sindh were rejected. The revenues were decided to be
shared again on the bases of population alone ignoring all
other facts.
Again disregarding the actual current population, it was
decided that the 15 years old figures of 1981 census will
continue to be used till the next census.
Receipts projects in the NFC Award actual estimated 1996-97
(337), 1997-98 (498), revenue receipts (divisible pool)
1996-97 (286), 1997-98 (290), shortfall compared to NFC
projection 1996-97 (51), 1997-98 (108) {Rs in billion}.
In most blatant injustice to Sindh is that its projected
figures of expenditure were rejected forcing it to reduce
its current expenditure for 1996-97 by Rs.5 billion, which
was taken as a bench mark year, reducing the sum from Rs.41
billion to Rs.36 billion.
Consequently, Sindh, the most financially distressed
province, did not quality for the special annual grants of
Rs.3.3 billion and Rs. 4 billion given to NWFP and
Balochistan basin on their projected expenditure.
This has been unfair to Sindh as its current expenditure of
that year. Despite unprecedented resources crunch, it has
turned out to be Rs.39.8 billion reported in the accounts
prepared by the Accountant General of Sindh (who is a
federal government employee).
The actual expenditure is in fact much larger than what has
been reported because a large amount of expenses and
liabilities have been deferred due to the province's
inability to pay.
Therefore, even if this amount of Rs.39.8 billion was kept
as a benchmark, Sindh should have received an annual
inflation adjustable grant of Rs.4.4 billion like
Balochistan and NWFP, reaching a total of around Rs.28
billion in a five year period.
A cursory reviews of this award highlight the following
particulars for the provinces. On an overall basis, the
share of provinces in the divisible pool has been reduced
from 80 percent to 37.5 percent.
Although the money in the divisible pool has been increased
by the inclusion of the custom duty, yet the net impact of
this divisible pool has been reduced from 80 percent to
37.5f percent.
Although the money in the divisible pool has been increased
by the inclusion of the custom duty, the net impact of this
award is that the provinces are expected to get Rs. 295
billion less during the current NFC period compared to the
1990 NFRC award.
Sindh will get Rs. 68 billion less in the five-year period
of 1996 award compared to the 1990 award distribution
formula.
Even if 10 percent weight assigned to collection factor with
90 percent weight given to the population factor formula has
been used according to the current population studies.
A federal government owned organization. Sindh should have
gotten nearly Rs.60.9 billion more than what it is expected
to get during the five-year period of the current award.
To mislead the provinces, the projections of federal tax
revenue were highly inflated based on the current trend of
tax collection. It is estimated that there will be a
shortfall of nearly Rs. 839 billion compared to the amount
of tax revenues proposed to be collected.
This will result in a shortfall in the provincial share
(receipts) from the divisible pool of around Rs. 290 billion
compared to the amount reflected in the 1996 NFC award. The
loss to Sindh will be Rs. 67.5 billion.
While all the provinces will face the financial crunch in
the case of Sindh the problem is aggravated because of the
additional loss resulting from the sue of incorrect
benchmark figures as explained above.
In the case of provinces other than Sindh, the financial
effects of the above mentioned shortfall will be compensated
by additional annual grants of around Rs. 3.3 billion and
Rs. 4 billion for NWFP and Balochistan respectively, while
Punjab will continue to benefit from larger resource
transfers based on the 1981 population census.
This will be at the expense of increased considerably but it
will continue to receive its share on the basis of the 1981
census.-NNI
Mo
Muhajirs) and Bangladesh refuse to accept their own citizens
?
By Our Correspondent
DHAKA, Sept 28: The Bangladesh Rifles have foiled several
Indian attempts to push 22 so-called Bengali speaking
Bangladeshis into Bangladesh. The BDR officials said the
Indian Border Security Forces (BSF) had twice tried to push
people into Bangladesh through Darshana border on Tuesday
last.
In their first attempt, the BSF pushed 16 people into
Bangladesh. But the BDR arrested these people immediately
and sent them back to India. They made a second attempt
several hours later but the BDR foiled the attempt in the
same way.
The BDR have also foiled another BSF attempt when they tried
to push a small group of five to six people into Bangladesh
through Lalmonirhat border on Friday.
The BDR officials said the BSF had made several attempts to
push people into Bangladesh in the past two months but all
these attempts have been foiled.
Government officials in Dhaka said Bangladesh will resist
all Indian attempts to push people into its territory.
J Raza
>
> naeem sahib, why not Pakistan make a honest admission that about 60% of its
> people speak Punjabi and rest speak Sindhi,Baloch etc.? National language or
> mother language is the language that people speak in their normal life and
> learn it from their elders(mothers and fathers) not a language that they
> learn in school from a language teacher. Make all the languages(Punjabi,
> Sindhi, English..) spoken in Pakistan as your national languages and then see
> how fast the literacy rate of Pakistan goes up. Teaching illiterate people
> foreign languages is really not a great way to imprive literacy.
Exactly. Instruction in the mother tongue is the easiest, cheapest and
quickest way to increase literacy in Pakistan. But the great (pseudo)
patriots are in denial.
> All the languages are beatiful to its speakers. There should not be a
> contest of who is better or worse. Point is Pakistanis should look inside
> Pakistan for their roots as for their culture and language goes not outside
> of Pakistan.
Once again, you're spot on. Pakistan must look for an identity within
its own land. not in the bazaars of 19th century UP-Hindustan. We do
need one language for inter-provinicial communication, but why does that
have to be Hindi-Urdu? Sindhi, for example, could do that job admirably.
As long as the provinces are allowed to develop there own languages they
won't have any object to learning a "national" language. And that
national language *must* be one of Pakistan's native languages.
> I like Urdu in its own way. It is a beatuful language. In fact ,I am learning
> it as a hobby although I love my mother language Punjabi. English was my
> eduactional need. I learned English for the same reason I learned Math and
> Physics. I was taught Hindi though I never learned it and as result I kind
> of ended up avoiding it but on the other hand no one ever mentioned Urdu in
> my life and I still like to learn it. Idea is to let people learn a language
> that they think is theirs and not let the politicians and rulers to tell you
> what is your language. You know it is better. I got to run more later on...
I'll look forward to that. You've made some good points, friend.
Jamil
J Raza
>
> I will ignore what the erudite the "other" Mr. Rizvi said, as I cannot hope
> to reach the dizzy heights that he ascends with such effortless ease, but
> Mr. Raza, I wonder if you possess the deed of ownership that you claim to
> the news group which specifically excludes persons like me.
Actually, it's only people like Sunil Chicken-shitty and OLDMACDONALD
that I want to exclude. You're over reacting.
> Firstly you will
> have to define me as belonging to a proscribed group: I belong to many
> groups. Firstly, I am a human being, though , you and people of your ilk
> might not entirely believe it. Secondly I also am a US citizen who
> previously happened to be a citizen of India. Prior to being a citizen of
> India I was a subject of the King Emperor, George VI, as all the older folk
> in the sub continent, now extant,were. And speaking for the erudite, "other"
> Mr. Rizvi, I am also a Harami Hindu and if he is much exercised and wishes
> in addition to exercise his inimitable poetic license, Harami Hindoooo, the
> number of o's signifying the extent and depth of his contempt and disdain
> both for the religion and the presumably cowering victim.
I personally am not in favour of hating people on the basis of their
religious beliefs.
> I would look forward to hearing from you chapter and verse( if I had the
> time and I wish to tarry on SCP) on how I do not qualify to contribute to
> ANY group that is not moderated. I do not write overt nonsense.( covert
> nonsense properly disguised is I presume the universal language of the net.)
> I do not use bad language. I just state my opinions in hopefully no
> uncertain terms.
OK, point taken. There are a lot of Indians posting garbage on
soc.culture.pakistan and it's somtimes difficult to distinguish between
hate-mongering idiots and well-meaning people with which one simply has
a difference of opinion.
Though, you have made some very provocative statements in your time.
Such as you regarding the land between the Indus and some place in
India, as one. That kind of thing will make any Pakistani's blood boil.
>However, I in future will treat all messages( unless I find
> something specially prurient, either literally or metaphorically, that I
> cannot and will not avoid) SOLELY on SCP as the private preserve of the
> holders of the perfect faith,
Don't be so sensitive, P.G.! Its easy to say things to people on a
newgroup, most of it isn't meant to be taken seriously.
[snip]
> About the merits Gandhi Vs Jinnah, I will take the word of people like
> Albert Einstein, Romain Rolland, Albert Schweitzer, Eric
> Ericsson,Rabindranath Tagore, Clement Atlee, Gaffar Khan, Franklin Delano
> Roosevelt etc. speak for me, on the relative merits of the two deceased
> gentlemen.
Gandhi was one of the biggest conmen of the 20th century. We don't need
to rely on the opinions of any of the people you mention above, the
facts of his life a speak for themselves. He was an agent of Brahminist
fascism, and nothing more.
> Also the relative success of the two commemorating movies,
> Attenborough's and Ben Kingsley's Gandhi with a bushel load of academy
> awards and the recent release on Jinnah should do the speaking.
Attenbourough's Gandhi is the biggest pile of crap I have ever seen.
Your using it to justify your high opinion of Gandhi is evidence of the
poverty of your case.
> Are Chris
> Lee and his fellow ghouls, so appropriately cast for the Jinnah movie,
> slated for similar accolades ?.
> Sayonara, Namaste, Khuda Hafiz, Ciao, Auf
> Wiedersehen, unzoweiter with the slight proviso given above. And despite
> your dislike for the word, Peace.
> Gopal
Come on now, P.G., stop sulking and come back to SCP! Usenet is no
place for the faint hearted under any circumstances. But if you're going
to make negative statements about the founder of Pakistan on
soc.culture.pakistan you really must expect some flak. That isn't any
sort of a reason to pack your bags and leave!
regards,
Jamil
naeem s.
>naeem sahib, why not Pakistan make a honest admission that about 60% of its
>people speak Punjabi and rest speak Sindhi,Baloch etc.? National language or
>mother language is the language that people speak in their normal life and
>learn it from their elders(mothers and fathers) not a language that they
>learn in school from a language teacher.
-- I would differentiate national language from mother language. My mother
language is Urdu, but in Canada, the national language is English/French.
SImilarly, in Pakistan, the mother language would be anything spoken at home,
but it may not necessarily be the nationla one. A national language has to be
one that bridges all mother tongues - and in Pakistans case, may have to be
taught in school.
>Make all the languages(Punjabi,
>Sindhi, English..) spoken in Pakistan as your national languages and then see
>how fast the literacy rate of Pakistan goes up. Teaching illiterate people
>foreign languages is really not a great way to imprive literacy.
>
-- I agree that if all 5 or 6 main languages in Pakistan are taught in school,
it would be much better. however, introducing Punjabi as a medium of
instructions is unlikely to increase literacy in the rural population .. ditto
for sindh or baluchistan. There are social and economic factors that keep the
literacy rates in the rural areas very low, regardless of what language is
taught in schools. Lahore, ISB, Pindi, Karachi etc. have high literacy rates
because they have higher school enrolments and less of the socioeconomic
impediments in place .. and BTW most of the upper echelons go to English
medium schools.
>All the languages are beatiful to its speakers. There should not be a
>contest of who is better or worse. Point is Pakistanis should look inside
>Pakistan for their roots as for their culture and language goes not outside
>of Pakistan.
>
-- I agree .. but Pakistan is not just Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP.
The provincial govts should ensure that the provincial languages are taught in
schools and made 'lazmi' rather than electives.
>I like Urdu in its own way. It is a beatuful language. In fact ,I am learning
>it as a hobby although I love my mother language Punjabi. English was my
>eduactional need. I learned English for the same reason I learned Math and
>Physics. I was taught Hindi though I never learned it and as result I kind
>of ended up avoiding it but on the other hand no one ever mentioned Urdu in
>my life and I still like to learn it. Idea is to let people learn a language
>that they think is theirs and not let the politicians and rulers to tell you
>what is your language. You know it is better. I got to run more later on...
-- Imposition of languages is wrong .. but for a modern state to function,
there must be a standard for communication. Be it Punjabi, English, Sindhi or
urdu in pakistan.
--Naeem--
naeem s.
wrote:
>ank...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> naeem sahib, why not Pakistan make a honest admission that about 60% of its
>> people speak Punjabi and rest speak Sindhi,Baloch etc.? National language or
>> mother language is the language that people speak in their normal life and
>> learn it from their elders(mothers and fathers) not a language that they
>> learn in school from a language teacher. Make all the languages(Punjabi,
>> Sindhi, English..) spoken in Pakistan as your national languages and then see
>> how fast the literacy rate of Pakistan goes up. Teaching illiterate people
>> foreign languages is really not a great way to imprive literacy.
>
>Exactly. Instruction in the mother tongue is the easiest, cheapest and
>quickest way to increase literacy in Pakistan.
-- that can be implemented, according to whatever the main local language is
. and perhaps English as a national language.
>> All the languages are beatiful to its speakers. There should not be a
>> contest of who is better or worse. Point is Pakistanis should look inside
>> Pakistan for their roots as for their culture and language goes not outside
>> of Pakistan.
>
>Once again, you're spot on. Pakistan must look for an identity within
>its own land. not in the bazaars of 19th century UP-Hindustan. We do
>need one language for inter-provinicial communication, but why does that
>have to be Hindi-Urdu? Sindhi, for example, could do that job admirably.
>As long as the provinces are allowed to develop there own languages they
>won't have any object to learning a "national" language. And that
>national language *must* be one of Pakistan's native languages.
>
-- The makeup of Pakistan is such that if you make ANY of the native languages
as a national language, you will have the same problem as you do with Urdu
today. It'll be imposition of a non-native language. Punjabi will be as
foreign to the Sindhi as Urdu is, and Sindhi will not go down well in Punjab
will it ? Pakistan is linguistically divided and there is no language that
trancends all 4 provinces .. the national language will always be alien to
one province or another. Its not as simple, but I think its better discussed
and understood.
--Naeem--
Azam Khan
Come on now.....we love you here in SCP.....I know we call you Harami
Hindu/Indian scumbags but the truth is that your brethren (from your old home
world) call us all kinds of name....but don't give up on us yet. We love to hear
the tall tales of how big and bad India is from you and that Sunil Shitty and
Mo. Come back Gopi.....please come back. Take care.
Azam.
--
Azam Khan's Web Page: http://www.erols.com/sap1
************************************
Site Updated September 23, 1998
Please participate in the new poll
WHO IS THE BIGGEST PAKISTANI CROOK ?
************************************
P.G.Gopal wrote:
> I will ignore what the erudite the "other" Mr. Rizvi said, as I cannot hope
> to reach the dizzy heights that he ascends with such effortless ease, but
> Mr. Raza, I wonder if you possess the deed of ownership that you claim to
> the news group which specifically excludes persons like me. Firstly you will
> have to define me as belonging to a proscribed group: I belong to many
> groups. Firstly, I am a human being, though , you and people of your ilk
> might not entirely believe it. Secondly I also am a US citizen who
> previously happened to be a citizen of India. Prior to being a citizen of
> India I was a subject of the King Emperor, George VI, as all the older folk
> in the sub continent, now extant,were. And speaking for the erudite, "other"
> Mr. Rizvi, I am also a Harami Hindu and if he is much exercised and wishes
> in addition to exercise his inimitable poetic license, Harami Hindoooo, the
> number of o's signifying the extent and depth of his contempt and disdain
> both for the religion and the presumably cowering victim.
>
> I would look forward to hearing from you chapter and verse( if I had the
> time and I wish to tarry on SCP) on how I do not qualify to contribute to
> ANY group that is not moderated. I do not write overt nonsense.( covert
> nonsense properly disguised is I presume the universal language of the net.)
> I do not use bad language. I just state my opinions in hopefully no
> uncertain terms. However, I in future will treat all messages( unless I find
> something specially prurient, either literally or metaphorically, that I
> cannot and will not avoid) SOLELY on SCP as the private preserve of the
> holders of the perfect faith, like the noble and erudite "other" Mr. Rizvi
> and the noble Khan, the one literally thrives on calling ,alternatively,
> Indians and Hindus, scum bags if not worse and and you Mr. Raza , whom I
> cannot really fathom. How a person who sometimes writes sensible things gets
> into hateful speech. What are the buttons Mr.Raza that if pressed, turn your
> Dr. Jekyll personality into the Mr. Hyde that is so commonplace in SCP and
> SCI ? By the way, treat my last question as purely a rhetorical one, as I am
> signing off from the group.
> About the merits Gandhi Vs Jinnah, I will take the word of people like
> Albert Einstein, Romain Rolland, Albert Schweitzer, Eric
> Ericsson,Rabindranath Tagore, Clement Atlee, Gaffar Khan, Franklin Delano
> Roosevelt etc. speak for me, on the relative merits of the two deceased
> gentlemen. Also the relative success of the two commemorating movies,
> Attenborough's and Ben Kingsley's Gandhi with a bushel load of academy
> awards and the recent release on Jinnah should do the speaking. Are Chris
> Lee and his fellow ghouls, so appropriately cast for the Jinnah movie,
> slated for similar accolades ?.
> Sayonara, Namaste, Khuda Hafiz, Ciao, Auf
> Wiedersehen, unzoweiter with the slight proviso given above. And despite
> your dislike for the word, Peace.
> Gopal
>
MNaqvi
>You stop claiming middle eastern ancestory, you dark skinned upiads are not
>Arabs, persians and turks. You were low caste hindu shoodars who were
>converted to Islam and adopted middle eastern surnames.
YOU MUST BE TALKING ABOUT BIHARIS AND RAJASTHANIS. ABAY RUNDEE KI NAJAIZ AULAD,
MOST UPIADS/DELHVIS ARE TRUE DESCENDENTS OF THE MUSLIM INVADERS. LIKE MY
FAMILY, THEY ARE FAIR SKINNED WITH GREEN/GREY EYES. WE EVEN HAVE THE FAMILY
TREE RECORD PROVING OUR ORIGINS FROM IRAN. I KNOW MANY OTHER UPIDES/DELHVIS WHO
ARE SYEDS, QURESHIS, BUKHARIS, SHIRAZIS, ETC WHO COME FROM THE MIDDLE EAST AND
THEIR LOOKS PROVES THAT. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK HAPPENED TO HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF MUSLIM INVADERS AND SCHOLARS THAT CAME FROM MIDDLE EAST TO
DELHI/UP WHICH WAS THEN THE BASE OF THE MUSLIM SULTANATE IN INDIA? YOU THINK
THEY JUST DISAPPEARED? ABAY GANDOO, THINK WITH YOU BRAIN, NOT WITH YOUR CHOOT.
AS FOR YOU RAJASTHANIS, WHEN THE MUSLIMS (THE FOREFATHERS OF UPIDES/DELHVIS)
INVADED INDIA THEY BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF YOU SAVAGE RAJASTHANI RAJPUTS (AND
OTHER HINDUS) AND AFTER THAT YOUR RAJPUT WOMEN WERE SEX SLAVES FOR THE MUSLIMS.
YOU RAJPUTS WERE SO BEGHAIRAT AND CHEAP THAT YOU CONVERTED TO ISLAM AND SOLD
YOUR DAUGHTERS/SISTERS JUST TO KISS YOUR MUSLIM MASTERS ASS.
MNaqvi
>Why
>don't you admit that you are a racist and prejudiced person too.
YES I AM A RACIST ONLY TO A RACIST LIKE YOU. IF YOU STOP YOUR RACISM I WILL
STOP MINE.
>You have this
>superiority complex that people of UP are superior.
THEY ARE. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. UPIADS ARE EDUCATED PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOOD
BACKGROUNDS, UNLIKE YOU RAJASTHANIS WHO ARE IGNORANT DUMB FUCKS WITH A SAVAGE
BACKGROUND.
> You also have this notion
>that you somehow are Iranian. If you are iranian go back to Iran. We don't
>your likes in the Indian subcontinet you harami iranian.
ABAY MADARKOOS, I NEVER SAID THAT I AM IRANIAN, I AM PAKISTANI, WITH ROOTS FROM
UP, BUT ORIGINS FROM IRAN. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU DONT LIKE IRANIANS, YET MUCH OF
YOUR CULTURE AND LANGUAGE IS COPIED FROM IRAN. LIKE I SAID BEFORE YOU RAJPOOTS
ARE GENETICALLY DUMB FUCK JAHILS.
>LOOK AFGHAN ARE
>COMING TO KICK YOUR ASS.
THAT MIGHT BACKFIRE. IRAN HAS ALWAYS HELPED PAKISTAN. BY HELPING THE FUCKING
JAHIL TALIBAN MORONS, PAKISTAN IS BURYING ITSELF IN GRAVE. WAIT TILL TALIBAN
BRING UP THE TICKING TIME BOMB ISSUE OF PAKHTUNISTAN. BUT THEN DUMB FUCK
RAJPUTS LIKE YOU WOULDNT KNOW JACK ABOUT WHAT IS GOOD OR BAD.
SATTIAN
Because MahJurs are smuggling all that money to India. You get richer and
Pakistan gets poorer. We need to send these expatriates back to their foxholes.
></PRE></HTML>
MNaqvi
>Because MahJurs are smuggling all that money to India. You get richer and
>Pakistan gets poorer. We need to send these expatriates back to their
>foxholes.
ABAY JAHIL SHATAN PAINDOO, CAN YOU BACKUP YOUR FUCKING LIES WITH FACTS. THE
FACT IS SIND IS EXPLOITED BY YOUR FELLOW PAINDOOS, PUNJAB IS PROSPERING AT THE
COST OF SIND. SINDIS AND NEW SINDIS (MUHAJIRS) ARE UNITING TO KICK PUNJABI
IMPERIALISM OUT. GO TO INTERIOR SIND AND FIND OUT HOW MUCH SINDIS RESENT THE
PUNJABI DOMINATION AND EXPLOITATION. IT IS YOU LOWLIFE PAINDOOS (CHAUDRIS,
WADERAS, SARDARS, ETC) THAT ARE ROBBING EVERY PENNY FROM THE COUNTRY AND
PUTTING IT IN SWISS, USA, ETC ACCOUNTS. BALUCHIS, SINDIS, PATHANS AND SERAIKIS
ARE GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF PAINDOOS CORRUPTION, LOOTING AND INJUSTICE. IF
PAKISTAN BREAKS UP IT WILL BE BECAUSE OF YOU LOWLIFE PAINDOOS WHO WANT TO MAKE
PAKISTAN INTO PUNJABISTAN.
WHEN I SAY PAINDOO I MEAN THE FEUDAL ELITE. NO HARM INTENDED TO DECENT
PUNJABIS.
PakRajput
<<
YES I AM A RACIST ONLY TO A RACIST LIKE YOU. IF YOU STOP YOUR RACISM I WILL
STOP MINE.>>
As I have stated my racist message were a response to the racist messages by
PakBaloch and Azam Khan. I did not initiate the racism on this newsgroup.
<<THEY ARE. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. UPIADS ARE EDUCATED PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOOD
BACKGROUNDS, UNLIKE YOU RAJASTHANIS WHO ARE IGNORANT DUMB FUCKS WITH A SAVAGE
BACKGROUND.>>
So these whites who have a higher educational standard than you upiads are
superior to you. The Japanese are also superior to you since they are usually
more educated than you. BTW most people in my family are doctors, engineers
and other professionals and i know a lot of upiads especially most upiads in
Hyderabad(my city) are koonjray(vegetable seller) and Kasai(butchers) and they
don't know how to read and write and they are what you call savage. As far as
good backgroud is concerned, you are iranian who were fucked by Arabs and
Greeks. What good backgroud are you talking about.
<<ABAY MADARKOOS, I NEVER SAID THAT I AM IRANIAN, I AM PAKISTANI, WITH ROOTS
FROM
UP, BUT ORIGINS FROM IRAN. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU DONT LIKE IRANIANS, YET MUCH OF
YOUR CULTURE AND LANGUAGE IS COPIED FROM IRAN. LIKE I SAID BEFORE YOU RAJPOOTS
ARE GENETICALLY DUMB FUCK JAHILS. >>
Yeah right. Most languages in Pakistan and North India belong to the
indo-aryan group. Aryan doesn't necessarily mean Iranian. Pathans and balochs
are also aryans so are people from former soviet states such as Tajikistan,
uzbekistan etc. Most people in indian subcontinent converted to Islam because
of afghans not because of iranians. Datta gunj bakhsh and lal shabaz qalandar
were both afghan muslim missionaries. All iranians did was to weaken muslim
rule over india. Do you remember nadir shah. An iranian savage who
slaughtered 200,000 sunnis in Dehli and weakened muslim rule over india. Now
Iran is doing the same to Pakistan.
<<
THAT MIGHT BACKFIRE. IRAN HAS ALWAYS HELPED PAKISTAN. BY HELPING THE FUCKING
JAHIL TALIBAN MORONS, PAKISTAN IS BURYING ITSELF IN GRAVE. WAIT TILL TALIBAN
BRING UP THE TICKING TIME BOMB ISSUE OF PAKHTUNISTAN. BUT THEN DUMB FUCK
RAJPUTS LIKE YOU WOULDNT KNOW JACK ABOUT WHAT IS GOOD OR BAD.
</PRE></HTML>>>
When has iranian haramis ever helped pakistan. During the iran-iraq war,
Pakistan was the only muslim country in the region which was trading with iran
despite the fact arab countries had told pakistan not to. In iran sunni
muslims are not allowed to build their own mosques. they have to pray in a
shia mosque behind a shia imam. Khomeini killed 100,000 sunni muslims.
Talibans would never bring up the issue of pakhtunistan instead they want to
make Pakistan and Afghanistan one country. They don't believe in any
nationalism. You shia asshole should stop conspiring against pakistan
otherwise we will beat the crap out of your iran. Iran rundis still miss our
hot lunds.
PakRajput
Abbay bhen kay loray it was your women that were the source of amusement for
middle eastern invaders that is why you have their last names. they fucked
your mamas and you the mixed breed were born and now you claim to be middle
easterners. Sure whatever. As for your claim about those middle easterners
that settled in UP/dehli, abbay bhenchod they settled in large numbers all over
india. Even in punjab and sindh you will find a lot of people with middle
eastern last names. As i have stated earlier, the most successful missionary
khwaja moinuddin chishti ajmeri chose rajasthan as his home and the chishti
khandaan still lives in rajasthan. I have said earlier that not all
rajasthanis are rajpoots. You will also find a lot of syeds, siddiqis,
qureshis, chishtis, and qadris etc among rajasthanis. You are such a beghairat
person that you proudly claim that your mamas were fucked by iranians so now
your origins are from iran. Yeah green eyes and light skin my eyes. You can
say whatever you want since I can't see you. Most likely you are a very
darkskinned upiad with an iranian last name.
J Raza
> >Exactly. Instruction in the mother tongue is the easiest, cheapest and
> >quickest way to increase literacy in Pakistan.
>
> -- that can be implemented, according to whatever the main local language is
> . and perhaps English as a national language.
English is one possible choice. I personally would like to see a
Pakistani language as the national language, though, of course, English
being the most important language in the world it will have to have some
sort of a status as well.
> >Once again, you're spot on. Pakistan must look for an identity within
> >its own land. not in the bazaars of 19th century UP-Hindustan. We do
> >need one language for inter-provinicial communication, but why does that
> >have to be Hindi-Urdu? Sindhi, for example, could do that job admirably.
> >As long as the provinces are allowed to develop there own languages they
> >won't have any object to learning a "national" language. And that
> >national language *must* be one of Pakistan's native languages.
> >
> -- The makeup of Pakistan is such that if you make ANY of the native languages
> as a national language, you will have the same problem as you do with Urdu
> today.
I don't quite agree. In today's Pakistan Urdu isn't just a medium for
inter-provincial communication, its supporters present it as the only
truly "Islamic" language and as a language that is somehow "superior"
to Pakistan's native language. Quite how Urdu is more Islamic or
superior to Punjabi, Baluchi, Pashto or Sindhi the great (pseudo)
patriots are at a loss to explain.
> It'll be imposition of a non-native language. Punjabi will be as
> foreign to the Sindhi as Urdu is, and Sindhi will not go down well in Punjab
> will it ?
As long as people are allowed cultural (and political) freedom by the
centre, they won't object to learning an additional language in the
interest of national unity. It is only when they are expected to
sacrifice their own language for Urdu, as they are in today's Pakistan,
that there is resentment. Once we recognize and accept that Pakistan is
and will always remain a multi-linguistic society and once all the
cultures of Pakistan are given due respect, there will be no problem.
>Pakistan is linguistically divided and there is no language that
> trancends all 4 provinces .. the national language will always be alien to
> one province or another.
True. But the national language need not be resented as much as Urdu is.
Until recent times Punjab was the greatest supporter of Urdu, but even
there some people are now turning against it.
Jamil
Nadeem Jamali
> .... A national language has to be
> one that bridges all mother tongues - and in Pakistans case, may have to be
> taught in school.
...
> -- Imposition of languages is wrong .. but for a modern state to function,
> there must be a standard for communication. Be it Punjabi, English, Sindhi or
> urdu in pakistan.
Do you mean people should be taught Urdu just so they can use it to
communicate?
Then why did classical Urdu literature, musical traditions, historical
perspective have to replace native literature, musical traditions,
historical perspective on state run media and in other state funded
initiatives?
We don't just have a language being imposed in Sindh, Punjab,
Balochistan and Pakhtunkhwa; it's a full scale cultural invasion!
Nadeem
Sandeep Cariapa
J Raza <ee...@sun.leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
>P.G.Gopal wrote:
>> I do not use bad language. I just state my opinions in hopefully no
>> uncertain terms.
>
>soc.culture.pakistan and it's somtimes difficult to distinguish between
>hate-mongering idiots and well-meaning people with which one simply has
>a difference of opinion.
>
>> Albert Einstein, Romain Rolland, Albert Schweitzer, Eric
>> Ericsson,Rabindranath Tagore, Clement Atlee, Gaffar Khan, Franklin Delano
>> Roosevelt etc. speak for me, on the relative merits of the two deceased
>> gentlemen.
>
>to rely on the opinions of any of the people you mention above, the
>facts of his life a speak for themselves. He was an agent of Brahminist
>fascism, and nothing more.
This is curious. What facts of his life make you believe that he was a
conman and a Brahminist fascist? BTW, he was not a Brahmin. I'll agree that
some of his ideas were quite nutty though.
I'm not exactly a great admirer of Gandhi, but you have to admit that
he did manage to marshal a very diverse people and kick out the Brits.
Several of his followers were Muslims as well. I don't think its possible
to con everyone at the same time for any prolonged period of time is it?
Then again, I have no idea what they teach you guys about this in your
country.
>Come on now, P.G., stop sulking and come back to SCP! Usenet is no
>place for the faint hearted under any circumstances. But if you're going
>to make negative statements about the founder of Pakistan on
>soc.culture.pakistan you really must expect some flak. That isn't any
>sort of a reason to pack your bags and leave!
@:-)
Regards,
Sandeep Cariapa
naeem s.
wrote:
>naeem s. wrote:
>> -- that can be implemented, according to whatever the main local language is
>> . and perhaps English as a national language.
>
>English is one possible choice. I personally would like to see a
>Pakistani language as the national language, though, of course, English
>being the most important language in the world it will have to have some
>sort of a status as well.
-- Pakistani languages are Punjabi, Urdu, Sindhi, Balochi, Saraiki, Pashto
etc.. Urdu may be alien to NWFP or Balochistan, but in this entity called
Pakistan, it is one of the 'pakistani' languages.
>> >
>> -- The makeup of Pakistan is such that if you make ANY of the native languages
>> as a national language, you will have the same problem as you do with Urdu
>> today.
>
>I don't quite agree. In today's Pakistan Urdu isn't just a medium for
>inter-provincial communication, its supporters present it as the only
>truly "Islamic" language and as a language that is somehow "superior"
>to Pakistan's native language. Quite how Urdu is more Islamic or
>superior to Punjabi, Baluchi, Pashto or Sindhi the great (pseudo)
>patriots are at a loss to explain.
>
-- I haven't come across anyone that suggests that Urdu is more islamic than
any other. Anyone who says that is obviously deranged and doesn't know Islam
from a hole in the ground. Urdu is as Islamic as English is or Norwegian. The
excuses I have seen are more to do with Urdu being the language of the
pre-1947 Indian civil service and therefore the language of the bureaucracy
(perhaps Urdu was the only feasible bureacracy language in 1947 in Pakistan),
and of course that more cultural material existed in Urdu. I don't believe in
the superiority theory .. Urdu was the de facto civil service language and it
stayed so.
>
>> It'll be imposition of a non-native language. Punjabi will be as
>> foreign to the Sindhi as Urdu is, and Sindhi will not go down well in Punjab
>> will it ?
>
>As long as people are allowed cultural (and political) freedom by the
>centre, they won't object to learning an additional language in the
>interest of national unity.
-- That can be true with Urdu or English as well. Now why would a Lahori or a
Saraiki person suddenly agree to learn Sindhi in the interest of national
unity when it is as alien to him as Urdu is ? Pakistan, lets remember, only
came to existence in 1947 .. Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan etc. have been around
a lot longer.
> It is only when they are expected to
>sacrifice their own language for Urdu, as they are in today's Pakistan,
>that there is resentment.
-- so you are now asking them to sacrifice their own language for something
other than Urdu ? If the conditions of cultural and political freedom are met
and local lnguageges are taught. would Urdu not be as good as any other
pakistani language as the national one ?
>Once we recognize and accept that Pakistan is
>and will always remain a multi-linguistic society and once all the
>cultures of Pakistan are given due respect, there will be no problem.
>
-- i agree. but even after recognising that, we still have to either make a
non-local language as a national one to equally impose on everyone, or decide
to pick one local language and impose it on everybody. Sindhis, Punjabis,
Pathans and Muhajirs aren't going to magically start loving each other and
learning e.g. punjabi or balochi as their national language once urdu is done
away with.
>>Pakistan is linguistically divided and there is no language that
>> trancends all 4 provinces .. the national language will always be alien to
>> one province or another.
>
>True. But the national language need not be resented as much as Urdu is.
>Until recent times Punjab was the greatest supporter of Urdu, but even
>there some people are now turning against it.
-- I would like to clear one point. Pakistan is an artificially created entity
comprising of 5 distinct ethnic groups. people whose elders migrated in 1947
are as much Pakistanis as those who happened to be inside the drawn borders,
so when we discuss the national language we have to see Urdu as one of the now
native languages of pakistan, equal to Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Saraiki, and
Baluchi. I don't believe anyt of them is better than the other .. which is why
I think English would be the best national language for Pakistan.
--Naeem--
Ras H. Siddiqui
Allah is merciful. And in your case you need all the mercy that
you can get.
Ras
SATTIAN wrote:
>
> You haramy katmal,
>
> I got your address. You live in CA. I do not give threats. Just I will appear
> one evening at your door and I believe you will wet you pants. I hope it will
> be soon because you may change your place.
>
> You satan ask me to back up my statement. Paksitan was prosperous before you
> magets arrive. How come India is richer and Pakistan is poorer. You take Bhatta
> and Ghunda tax and smuggle it across the border. This is what my fellow
> Pakistanis want to listen and I am the one who will show them the truth to
> fight MahJur Fascism. You need to go back.
> If an Indian guy screws his own sister and US law deports him then how come you
> eat in Pakistan, sing Iranian song, burn Pakistani flag and work for India. No
> way you gotaa go back baby.
>
> Maulana
Mo
Iran. What happened to Islamic brotherhood ? Did it ever
exist ? Should one God theory be banned?..
MNaqvi
>So these whites who have a higher educational standard than you upiads are
>superior to you. The Japanese are also superior to you since they are
>usually
>more educated than you.
DITTO, WE ARE TALKING EDUCATIONALLY/INTELLECTUALLY.
>most people in my family are doctors, engineers
>and other professionals
HAHAHA, YEAH RIGHT. YOU RAJASTHANIS ARE USUALLY JAMADARS AND BHUNGEES. YOU AND
YOUR FAMILY PROBABLY DOES THE SAME IN THE USA, CLEANING THE GUTTERS/SEWERAGE OF
BROOKLYN. NOT TO MENTION RAJASTHANI WOMEN'S FAVOURITE PROFESSION OF RUNDIBAZI
WHERE YOUR MOM AND SISTERS SELL THEIR BODIES ON 42ND STREET FOR $10 EACH.
>most upiads in
>Hyderabad(my city) are koonjray(vegetable seller) and Kasai(butchers) and
>they
>don't know how to read and write and they are what you call savage
THERE ARE SOME BIHARI AND RAJASTHANI LOWLIFE SAVAGES WHO ARE ASHAMED OF THEIR
BACKGROUND, SO THEY LIE BY CLAIMING TO BE UPIADS, AS UPIADS ARE FAMOUS FOR
BEING EDUCATED PEOPLE. JUST LIKE YOU SAVAGE PAKCHOOT WHO CLAIMED THAT SYED
BARELVI WAS YOUR ANCESTOR. YOU LOWLIFE MORON STOP CLAIMING UPIADS AS YOUR
PEOPLE. UPIADS ARE EDUCATED AND CIVILIZED PEOPLE, UNLIKE YOU SAVAGE DUMB FUCK
RAJASTHANI JAHILS.
> Most people in indian subcontinent converted to Islam because
>of afghans not because of iranians.
ABAY BHOSRI KAY, LEAVING RELIGION ASIDE TELL ME WHY DID MUSLIM RULERS OF INDIA
ALWAYS SPEAK IN FARSI? WHY IS MUSLIM CULTURE IN SUBCONTINENT INFLUENCED BY
PERSIAN CULTURE?
>Do you remember nadir shah. An iranian savage who
>slaughtered 200,000 sunnis in Dehli and weakened muslim rule over india.
ABAY MADARKOOS, NADER SHAH WAS A TURK WHO PLUNDERED IRAN (MAKING IRAN HIS
BASE), AFGHANISTAN AND INDIA. YOUR JIHALAT IS UNBELIVABLE.
>When has iranian haramis ever helped pakistan.
DURING THE 65 AND 71 WAR IRANIAN TROOPS IN LARGE NOS WERE WAITING ON THE BORDER
FOR PAKISTAN'S HELP. IRAN HAD CONTACTS WITH PAKISTAN THAT INCASE IF INDIA TRIES
TO INVADE PAKISTAN, IRANIAN TROOPS WILL BE THERE TO HELP PAKISTAN KICK HINDU
BUTTS OUT. THAT IS A FACT.
>Khomeini killed 100,000 sunni muslims.
THAT IS NOTHING BUT A ZIONIST LIE.
>Talibans would never bring up the issue of pakhtunistan instead they want to
>make Pakistan and Afghanistan one country. They don't believe in any
>nationalism.
THE FANATIC TALIBAN WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO MAKE THEIR OWN AFGAHNSITAN AS ONE
COUNTRY, LESS LIKELY PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN TOGETHER. THE FACT IS TALIBAN ARE
PATHANS, AND PATHANS WANT NWFP AND BALUCHISTAN TO REUNITE WITH AFGHANISTAN.
MNaqvi
>Abbay bhen kay loray it was your women that were the source of amusement for
>middle eastern invaders
ABAY JAHIL BEWAQOOF, MY ANCESTORS WERE MIDDLE EASTERN INVADERS AND SCHOLARS
THEMSELVES. IT WAS RAJPUT WOMEN THAT WERE THE SOURCE OF AMUSEMENT FOR MY
ANCESTORS. THAT IS A FACT. AFTER THE MUSLIMS DEFEATED THE RAJPUTS, THE RAJPUTS
GAVE AWAY THEIR SISTERS/DAUGHTERS AS WHORES TO SATISFY THEIR MUSLIM MASTERS.
>As for your claim about those middle easterners
>that settled in UP/dehli, abbay bhenchod they settled in large numbers all
>over
>india.
ABAY BHISRI KAY, AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF MIDDLE EASTERNERS SETTLED IN DELHI
AND UP WHICH WERE THE CENTRES OF MUSLIM POWER AND EDUCATION IN INDIA. THAT IS A
SIMPLE FACT.
MrMojoMan
To avoid unnecessary and unintentional cross-posting, please delete all the
other news groups from the header before replying.
Regards;
---
--- MrMojoMan
---
Mo <11305...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
<6utqo8$6g$6...@eros.clara.net>...
> Is this true that Sunnis are not allowed to build mosques in
>Iran. What happened to Islamic brotherhood ? Did it ever
>exist ? Should one God theory be banned?..
>
>
>pakr...@aol.com (PakRajput) wrote:
>
>
><<
>YES I AM A RACIST ONLY TO A RACIST LIKE YOU. IF YOU STOP
>YOUR RACISM I WILL
>STOP MINE.>>
>
>As I have stated my racist message were a response to the
>racist messages by
>PakBaloch and Azam Khan. I did not initiate the racism on
>this newsgroup.
>
><<THEY ARE. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. UPIADS ARE EDUCATED PEOPLE
>WHO HAVE GOOD
>BACKGROUNDS, UNLIKE YOU RAJASTHANIS WHO ARE IGNORANT DUMB
>FUCKS WITH A SAVAGE
>BACKGROUND.>>
>
>So these whites who have a higher educational standard than
>you upiads are
>superior to you. The Japanese are also superior to you
>since they are usually
>more educated than you. BTW most people in my family are
>doctors, engineers
>and other professionals and i know a lot of upiads
>especially most upiads in
>Hyderabad(my city) are koonjray(vegetable seller) and
>Kasai(butchers) and they
>don't know how to read and write and they are what you call
>savage. As far as
>good backgroud is concerned, you are iranian who were fucked
>by Arabs and
>Greeks. What good backgroud are you talking about.
>
><<ABAY MADARKOOS, I NEVER SAID THAT I AM IRANIAN, I AM
>PAKISTANI, WITH ROOTS
>FROM
>UP, BUT ORIGINS FROM IRAN. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU DONT LIKE
>IRANIANS, YET MUCH OF
>YOUR CULTURE AND LANGUAGE IS COPIED FROM IRAN. LIKE I SAID
>BEFORE YOU RAJPOOTS
>ARE GENETICALLY DUMB FUCK JAHILS. >>
>
>Yeah right. Most languages in Pakistan and North India
>belong to the
>indo-aryan group. Aryan doesn't necessarily mean Iranian.
>Pathans and balochs
>are also aryans so are people from former soviet states such
>as Tajikistan,
>uzbekistan etc. Most people in indian subcontinent
>converted to Islam because
>of afghans not because of iranians. Datta gunj bakhsh and
>lal shabaz qalandar
>were both afghan muslim missionaries. All iranians did was
>to weaken muslim
>rule over india. Do you remember nadir shah. An iranian
>savage who
>slaughtered 200,000 sunnis in Dehli and weakened muslim rule
>over india. Now
>Iran is doing the same to Pakistan.
>
>
>
><<
>
>THAT MIGHT BACKFIRE. IRAN HAS ALWAYS HELPED PAKISTAN. BY
>HELPING THE FUCKING
>JAHIL TALIBAN MORONS, PAKISTAN IS BURYING ITSELF IN GRAVE.
>WAIT TILL TALIBAN
>BRING UP THE TICKING TIME BOMB ISSUE OF PAKHTUNISTAN. BUT
>THEN DUMB FUCK
>RAJPUTS LIKE YOU WOULDNT KNOW JACK ABOUT WHAT IS GOOD OR
>BAD.
></PRE></HTML>>>
>
>When has iranian haramis ever helped pakistan. During the
>iran-iraq war,
>Pakistan was the only muslim country in the region which was
>trading with iran
>despite the fact arab countries had told pakistan not to.
>In iran sunni
>muslims are not allowed to build their own mosques. they
>have to pray in a
>shia mosque behind a shia imam. Khomeini killed 100,000
>sunni muslims.
>Talibans would never bring up the issue of pakhtunistan
>instead they want to
>make Pakistan and Afghanistan one country. They don't
>believe in any
SATTIAN
PERVAIZ RIZVI
hindooThey don't teach us any of this these are hard fact which have
been reported by several indian and western writer who spend time with
that fake naked faqir he was the biggest fraud of this century
he was trying to fool the muslims but luckily our great farsighted
leader Quaid I Azam knew and understood his diabolical plan. He claimed
to be a secular minded person but the fake Bapoo was a harami hindoo
at heart if you want i can post some abstract from Bose (who wrote about
him)
PERVAIZ RIZVI
BOY!!remineds me of DJ college canteen(i hear that they have lodged
rangers there)