JINNAH AND PORK???
Waqar Ali Shah
Jinnah could NEVER have eaten pork.
Such claims are lies propagated by India and the West to eliminate the
justified patriotism of Pakistanis.
The truth is, Jinnah was far greater a man than Gandhi or Nehru. An
Indian Congresswoman once said
"If Congress had one Jinnah, and the Muslim League had a thousand Gandhis
and Nehrus, Pakistan would never have come to exist."
Such was the greatness of the man, to whose ability and dynamism testified
even the worst of enemies.
Jinnah was a man of principle, of utmost faith in his cause, and of an
unbendable character. A western historian said about Jinnah "He was so
strong, no-one could convince him, he was so honest no one could buy him,
he was so intelligent no one could outwit him"
This says it all. Gandhi and Nehru, on the other hand, were busy testing
their measly libidos on their granddaughters, while Jinnah changed the
history of the world.
--
Saif Al-Shirawi
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
> Of course millions perished and uprooted themselves because our man
> Jinnah desired to change History!
Jinnah's desire to change history was approved by an
overwhelming majority of Indian Muslims. 'Tis
entirely irrelevant whether he ate pork, drank
whiskey, or avoided prayer. That particular
observation in 'Freedom at Midnight' is a bit
facetious, since it serves no purpose. By the
way, what were the references given by the
authors for their characterization of Jinnah?
Saif Al-Shirawi.
P.S. One can eat pork, drink alcohol, avoid prayer,
and still remain a Muslim. The only requirement
for being a Muslim is acceptance of the validity of
the Shahada.
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Saif Al-Shirawi (incorr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Jinnah's desire to change history was approved by an
: overwhelming majority of Indian Muslims. 'Tis
There was no universal franchise at that time (i,.e at the time of 1946
elections). Nobody in fact asked the opinion of the vast majority of
Indians on the matter of partition. Also remember that NWFP was put into
Pakistan on the basis of a "referendum" where the vote was limited to a
certain segment of people. The fate of NWFP was decided on the yes vote
of approximately 9% of the population [Ref:Modern India by Sumit Sarkar,
Mcmillan, India]
Also refer to "India Wins freedom" by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. After
partition Muslim League leaders of UP came to see him. They were very
bitter for having been duped by Jinnah, who advised them that now that
Pakistan was achieved, they should be loyal to India and with those
famous words went away to Pakistan.
Maybe you can also refer to Lahore Resolution of 1940. It calls for
'Independent States'. Jinnah slipped in the demand for a SINGLE country
after the election victory of 1946.
: entirely irrelevant whether he ate pork, drank
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: whiskey, or avoided prayer. That particular
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, it is not irrelevant because Jinnah claimed to be motivated by the
possible plight of Muslims. He even called a devout Muslim like Maulana
Azad-"a show boy". His failure to observe Islamic injunctions in his
personal life has one name-hypocricy.
: observation in 'Freedom at Midnight' is a bit
: facetious, since it serves no purpose. By the
: way, what were the references given by the
: authors for their characterization of Jinnah?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read the book, Saif and find out. I cannot do your reading for you.
: P.S. One can eat pork, drink alcohol, avoid prayer,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: and still remain a Muslim. The only requirement
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe other Muslims should speak on this. My understanding of Islam says
that pork is absolute taboo. So is alcohol. Prayer (Namaz) along with
Kalima,Haj,Roza and Zakat is one of the five pillers of Islam. For the
record, I am not a Muslim-I am an agnostic. However, Saif, I think you
would not repeat your above statement in the company of your favourite
Taliban:))
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Waqar Ali Shah (u391...@au.ac.th) wrote:
: Jinnah could NEVER have eaten pork.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[From, Freedom at Midnight,Simon&Schuster Edition,1975].
[Page116]
"A more improbable leader of India's Moslem masses could hardly be
imagined. The only thing Moslem about Mohammed Ali Jinnah was the fact
that his parents happened to be Moslem. He drank, ate pork, religiously
shaved his beard each morning, and just as religiously avoided the mosque
each Friday. God and the Koran had no place in Jinnah's vision of the
world. His political foe Gandhi knew more verses of the Moslem holy book
than he did....
Jinnah despised India's masses. He detested the dirt, the heat, the
crowds of India. Gandhi travelled India in filthy third class railway
cars to be with the people. Jinnah rode first class to avoid them."
: Such claims are lies propagated by India and the West to eliminate the
: justified patriotism of Pakistanis.
: The truth is, Jinnah was far greater a man than Gandhi or Nehru. An
: Indian Congresswoman once said
: "If Congress had one Jinnah, and the Muslim League had a thousand Gandhis
: and Nehrus, Pakistan would never have come to exist."
Reference? who said it? When? where was it published?
: Such was the greatness of the man, to whose ability and dynamism testified
: even the worst of enemies.
Post references from "enemies" please!
: Jinnah was a man of principle, of utmost faith in his cause, and of an
: unbendable character. A western historian said about Jinnah "He was so
: strong, no-one could convince him, he was so honest no one could buy him,
: he was so intelligent no one could outwit him"
Again, references please!
: This says it all. Gandhi and Nehru, on the other hand, were busy testing
: their measly libidos on their granddaughters, while Jinnah changed the
: history of the world.
Of course millions perished and uprooted themselves because our man
Jinnah desired to change History!
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5akpqm$gdc$2...@home.au.ac.th> u391...@au.ac.th (Waqar Ali Shah)
writes:
>Jinnah could NEVER have eaten pork.
>
>justified patriotism of Pakistanis.
>
>The truth is, Jinnah was far greater a man than Gandhi or Nehru. An
>Indian Congresswoman once said
>"If Congress had one Jinnah, and the Muslim League had a thousand
Gandhis and Nehrus, Pakistan would never have come to exist."
testified even the worst of enemies.
>unbendable character. A western historian said about Jinnah "He was
so strong, no-one could convince him, he was so honest no one could buy
him, he was so intelligent no one could outwit him"
>
testing their measly libidos on their granddaughters, while Jinnah
changed the history of the world.
Only a dumb Paindoo would sing praises of a known faggot like Jinnah.
The Paindoos were in point of fact were the only beneficiaries of his
dumb concoction. With in a few short months he transferred a nation of
Pimps
(which most Pandoos then were, Hira Mandi being the biggest and only
enterprise in than Punjab) into an imperialistic power. Which soon went
on to plunder Bengal, Sindh, Baluchistan and Karachi.
Pakiland has spent a fortune in trying to convert these Pimps into
soldiers, but found that when fired upon these cowards revert back to
their origins which is to become Pimps again.
The paindoo pimps do not fool anyone by showing their excessive
patriotic zeal for we all know it to be a fraud and a subterfuge to
hide their real national character, and we all know what that is?
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Saif Al-Shirawi
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
> There was no universal franchise at that time (i,.e at the time of 1946
> elections). Nobody in fact asked the opinion of the vast majority of
> Indians on the matter of partition. Also remember that NWFP was put into
> Pakistan on the basis of a "referendum" where the vote was limited to a
> certain segment of people. The fate of NWFP was decided on the yes vote
> of approximately 9% of the population [Ref:Modern India by Sumit Sarkar,
> Mcmillan, India]
> Also refer to "India Wins freedom" by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. After
> partition Muslim League leaders of UP came to see him. They were very
> bitter for having been duped by Jinnah, who advised them that now that
> Pakistan was achieved, they should be loyal to India and with those
> famous words went away to Pakistan.
> Maybe you can also refer to Lahore Resolution of 1940. It calls for
> 'Independent States'. Jinnah slipped in the demand for a SINGLE country
> after the election victory of 1946.
You're trying to obfuscate the issue. I'm not talking of 1940
or 1946 or the views of the UP leaders of the Muslim League. By
1947, at Partition, a majority of Muslims in India supported
the creation of Pakistan.
> : entirely irrelevant whether he ate pork, drank
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : whiskey, or avoided prayer. That particular
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> No, it is not irrelevant because Jinnah claimed to be motivated by the
> possible plight of Muslims. He even called a devout Muslim like Maulana
> Azad-"a show boy". His failure to observe Islamic injunctions in his
> personal life has one name-hypocricy.
According to the precepts of Islam, a Muslim is one who has borne
witness to the Shahada. Eating pork or drinking alcohol or even
calling Maulana Azad a "show-boy" does not reverse that act. Your
basis for calling his actions hypocritical are ridiculous. Jinnah
was a Muslim who supported the idea of an independent country
for the Muslims of India. The issue of eating pork, etc. is
between him and God . . . despite your efforts to use it as
a tool for your argument. As a matter of fact, I would maintain
that these very actions prove that he was not interested in
maintaining a religious facade to dupe the world into thinking
that he was a devout Muslim.
> : observation in 'Freedom at Midnight' is a bit
> : facetious, since it serves no purpose. By the
> : way, what were the references given by the
> : authors for their characterization of Jinnah?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Read the book, Saif and find out. I cannot do your reading for you.
You seem to do it willingly enough when it serves your purpose.
A history book is only as good as its references. Your
curious unwillingness to post these references (as you
obviously have a copy of "Freedom at Midnight") is inexplicable.
> : P.S. One can eat pork, drink alcohol, avoid prayer,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : and still remain a Muslim. The only requirement
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Maybe other Muslims should speak on this. My understanding of Islam says
> that pork is absolute taboo. So is alcohol. Prayer (Namaz) along with
> Kalima,Haj,Roza and Zakat is one of the five pillers of Islam. For the
> record, I am not a Muslim-I am an agnostic. However, Saif, I think you
> would not repeat your above statement in the company of your favourite
> Taliban:))
Tch, tch, Nalinaksha. You're on shaky ground here. While it is
incumbent upon Muslims to follow Islamic precepts, the only
requirement for one to be a Muslim is the Shahada . . . nothing
else. You are correct that pork is taboo, as is alcohol. And
prayer is also a duty of every Muslim. However, failure to adhere
to these precepts does not make an individual a non-Muslim. This
is clearly specified in the Hadith. Therefore the Taliban would
have to agree with me on this issue :)
Saif Al-Shirawi.
Shah
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>In 1947 Jinnah did take part in the open Eid prayers in Karachi. This
>was the only time he was ever observed to have taken part in anything
>Islamic. He never did see the inside of a mosque in all his life.
>He also flaunt his homosexuality which his attendents did their utmost
>to hide, and thanks to thier efforts not much is known about his
he was a homo? who was his partner? you or your dad
R always comes up with something new and intresting.
A dumb bahyea I guess.
>personel lifestyle in Pakistan.
>Nusrat Rizvi
>Rowayton, Conn
Nusrat Rizvi
In <32CDCD...@hotmail.com> Saif Al-Shirawi
<incorr...@hotmail.com> writes:
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
>> Of course millions perished and uprooted themselves because our man
>> Jinnah desired to change History!
>
>overwhelming majority of Indian Muslims. 'Tis
>facetious, since it serves no purpose. By the
>way, what were the references given by the
>authors for their characterization of Jinnah?
>
>
>P.S. One can eat pork, drink alcohol, avoid prayer,
>the Shahada.
In 1947 Jinnah did take part in the open Eid prayers in Karachi. This
was the only time he was ever observed to have taken part in anything
Islamic. He never did see the inside of a mosque in all his life.
He also flaunt his homosexuality which his attendents did their utmost
to hide, and thanks to thier efforts not much is known about his
Vishvendra
******Jinnah could NEVER have eaten pork.
Such claims are lies propagated by India and the West to eliminate the
justified patriotism of Pakistanis.*********
@@@@@@ Source of the claims comes from Jinnah's political aide Justice
Chagla ( Ex- Indian foreign minister)
Mr Mohammed Ali Karim Chagla was respected Chief Justice of Bombay High
Court andf was a secularist. He was a political aide of Jinnah and parted
his company when he started being sectarian and advocate of Pakistan. He
published a book called Roses in December.
In his book Mr chagla gives two specific instances of pork eating by Mr
Jinnah. One is when Jinnah's wife Ruthie brings ham sandwhiches to Jinnah
publically causing Jinnah embrassment and causing him to remonstrate
Ruthie for doing it in public and jeopardising his election from Bombay
reserved constituency
In another instance Chagla mentions that Muslim boy from prominent family
joins them and eating delicious pork sandwich without knowledge and Jinnah
from failing to dissuade the boy
The above instances were also quoted in Biography Jinnah of Pakistan By Mr
Wolpert( Who is by no menas a critic of Jinnah)
By the way Mr Wolpert also wrote modern biography of Zulfikar Bhutto 2
years ago. He mentions that Zulfis mother (Benazir Bhutto's grand mother)
was a Hindu Maharastrian dancing girl -Lakhi Bai from Poona converted to
Islam under name Iqbal begum.
Mr Wolpert attributes Mr Bhutto's moods for his difficult dual heritage
of being born to low class junior wife of Shahnawaz Bhutto despised in
Bhutto household by the other begums
******
The truth is, Jinnah was far greater a man than Gandhi or Nehru. An
Indian Congresswoman once said
"If Congress had one Jinnah, and the Muslim League had a thousand Gandhis
and Nehrus, Pakistan would never have come to exist."*******
@@@@@@There are lot of quotations
Allama Iqbal has commented to Nehru" There is a big difference between
Jinnah and you. You are a patriot and statesman while Jinnah is just a
politician" Source Discovery of India, and Iqbal by R. Zakaria@@@@@
Nusrat Rizvi
In <32cedd29...@news.dfwmm.net> Shah writes:
>rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>
>>In 1947 Jinnah did take part in the open Eid prayers in Karachi. This
>>was the only time he was ever observed to have taken part in anything
>>Islamic. He never did see the inside of a mosque in all his life.
>>He also flaunt his homosexuality which his attendents did their
utmost to hide, and thanks to thier efforts not much is known about his
>he was a homo? who was his partner? you or your dad
We know it could not have been your Mom as I am sure she was all
tied up with her Sikh Boyfriends.
>R always comes up with something new and intresting.
>A dumb bahyea I guess.
>>personel lifestyle in Pakistan.
It was another Paindoo writer Sadat Hassn Minto who brought it in the
open. Far be it for you a dumb Dugga to notice, considering you have
your ass in Quran 24 hours a day.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Shah
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>We know it could not have been your Mom as I am sure she was all
>tied up with her Sikh Boyfriends.
Rizvi you are not only an idiot but also a moron of the first
magnitude. My mom is out of the question because Jinnah was a homo, so
it has to be you or your dad, are you that old?????????????? uncle!
And as for my aunt R we all know about her. last I heard about your
mum was that she was a lead tawieef in lucknow. I guess entertainment
is your family business.
>
>>R always comes up with something new and intresting.
>>A dumb bahyea I guess.
>>>personel lifestyle in Pakistan.
>>It was another Paindoo writer Sadat Hassn Minto who brought it in the
>open. Far be it for you a dumb Dugga to notice, considering you have
>your ass in Quran 24 hours a day.
Sure he did and it was only you who heard that. Get that hindu dick
out of your mouth/ass and let a paki pump some sence inyou from your
rear.
O BTW I have seen quran I have not read one. So think before you make
any moronic claims you nitwit. Now I know why muhajirs are so much
fucked up in India and in Pak.
Nusrat Rizvi
In <32cff187...@news.dfwmm.net> Shah writes:
>rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) wrote:
>
>>We know it could not have been your Mom as I am sure she was all
>>tied up with her Sikh Boyfriends.
>Rizvi you are not only an idiot but also a moron of the first
>magnitude. My mom is out of the question because Jinnah was a homo, so
>it has to be you or your dad, are you that old?????????????? uncle!
>And as for my aunt R we all know about her. last I heard about your
>mum was that she was a lead tawieef in lucknow. I guess entertainment
>is your family business.
>>
>>>R always comes up with something new and intresting.
>>>A dumb bahyea I guess.
>>>>personel lifestyle in Pakistan.
>
>>>It was another Paindoo writer Sadat Hassn Minto who brought it in
the open. Far be it for you a dumb Dugga to notice, considering you
have your ass in Quran 24 hours a day.
>
>Sure he did and it was only you who heard that. Get that hindu dick
>out of your mouth/ass and let a paki pump some sence inyou from your
make any moronic claims you nitwit. Now I know why muhajirs are so much
>fucked up in India and in Pak.
Listen Mr. Shah, It is not unusual in Paindooland to do their utmost to
hide the family trade. By your name one would think you are the scion
of kings and not that of a whore. OK I am fooled, but others reading
your nonsense may have serious doubt about your true heritage.
And another thing, I have stated before as I do again that if you ever
find any inaccuracy in my post, I will reward $100. You can therefore
rest assured that whatever I write contains more truth than you are
ever likely to find in your shitty Quran.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Javed A Khan
In article <32CE81...@hotmail.com> Saif Al-Shirawi <incorr...@hotmail.com> writes:
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
>> Kalima,Haj,Roza and Zakat is one of the five pillers of Islam. For the
>> record, I am not a Muslim-I am an agnostic. However, Saif, I think you
>> would not repeat your above statement in the company of your favourite
>> Taliban:))
>
>Tch, tch, Nalinaksha. You're on shaky ground here. While it is
>incumbent upon Muslims to follow Islamic precepts, the only
>requirement for one to be a Muslim is the Shahada . . . nothing
>else. You are correct that pork is taboo, as is alcohol. And
>prayer is also a duty of every Muslim. However, failure to adhere
>to these precepts does not make an individual a non-Muslim. This
>is clearly specified in the Hadith. Therefore the Taliban would
>have to agree with me on this issue :)
But would they ;)
--Javed.
>
>Saif Al-Shirawi.
--
mis...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <5amadg$9...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) writes:
Saif al Shirawi wrote earlier:
>>and still remain a Muslim. The only requirement
>>for being a Muslim is acceptance of the validity of
>>the Shahada.
Personal opinion: I don't think Jinnah gave two hoots about
the Shahadah either.
>He also flaunt his homosexuality which his attendents did their utmost
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Talking from first hand experience I suppose?
Mohammad Noorul Islam
Anonymous
In article <32CE81...@hotmail.com>, incorr...@hotmail.com says...
>
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
There was no universal franchise at that time (i,.e at the time of 1946
elections). Nobody in fact asked the opinion of the vast majority of
Indians on the matter of partition. Also remember that NWFP was put
into
Pakistan on the basis of a "referendum" where the vote was limited to a
certain segment of people. The fate of NWFP was decided on the yes
vote
of approximately 9% of the population [Ref:Modern India by Sumit
Sarkar,
Mcmillan, India]
Also refer to "India Wins freedom" by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. After
partition Muslim League leaders of UP came to see him. They were very
bitter for having been duped by Jinnah, who advised them that now that
Pakistan was achieved, they should be loyal to India and with those
famous words went away to Pakistan.
Maybe you can also refer to Lahore Resolution of 1940. It calls for
'Independent States'. Jinnah slipped in the demand for a SINGLE country
after the election victory of 1946.
You're trying to obfuscate the issue. I'm not talking of 1940
or 1946 or the views of the UP leaders of the Muslim League. By
1947, at Partition, a majority of Muslims in India supported
the creation of Pakistan.
P.S. One can eat pork, drink alcohol, avoid prayer,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: and still remain a Muslim. The only requirement
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe other Muslims should speak on this. My understanding of Islam
says
that pork is absolute taboo. So is alcohol. Prayer (Namaz) along with
Kalima,Haj,Roza and Zakat is one of the five pillers of Islam. For the
record, I am not a Muslim-I am an agnostic. However, Saif, I think you
would not repeat your above statement in the company of your favourite
Taliban:))
Tch, tch, Nalinaksha. You're on shaky ground here. While it is
incumbent upon Muslims to follow Islamic precepts, the only
requirement for one to be a Muslim is the Shahada . . . nothing
else. You are correct that pork is taboo, as is alcohol. And
prayer is also a duty of every Muslim. However, failure to adhere
to these precepts does not make an individual a non-Muslim. This
is clearly specified in the Hadith. Therefore the Taliban would
have to agree with me on this issue :)
Saif Al-Shirawi.
Jinnah never claimed to a devout muslim. He wore Western clothes, ate pork
and drank and married a Parsi lady. However in his later days i.r. after
1940 when the Pakistan resolution was passed and especially after Pakistan
was made he gave up his earlier habits. He believed in Pakistan with all
sincerity and wanted it to a sort of secular country where the identity of
the people was by Pakistan and not caste, ethnic origin or religion. If he
would have lived longer today Pakistan would have been a much prosperous
country. He was an honest,sincere and good leader. And that was important
not his religious practices. Above all he always identified himself as a
muslim. What his actions were, are between God and himself alone.
ST
Nusrat Rizvi
In <5ar7jl$c...@news.jhu.edu> mis...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu () writes:
>
>In article <5amadg$9...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
rizv...@ix.netcom.com(Nusrat Rizvi) writes:
>
>Saif al Shirawi wrote earlier:
>>>the Shahada.
>
>Personal opinion: I don't think Jinnah gave two hoots about
>the Shahadah either.
>
>
>>He also flaunt his homosexuality which his attendents did their
utmost
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Talking from first hand experience I suppose?
>
>Mohammad Noorul Islam
Being a bhooka Bengali one would have thought you would be a little
more original or creative. Obviously you have been hanging around the
dumb Paindoos far too long and beginning to sound like one as the above
sentence, lacking wit or sharpness of the brain proves.
What you fail to see here Mohammed is that this NG is not limited to
the likes of Ass Hole or Pygmy or other assorted morons who either read
Quran, look at Victoria's Secret catalogue or hang around on the net
because no
decent woman, (scratch that) any woman would go out with them.
You are of course free to banter but please try to make it interesting.
As I am sure we both agree we certainly have more than our fair share
of dim wits around here.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Saif Al-Shirawi (incorr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: You're trying to obfuscate the issue. I'm not talking of 1940
: or 1946 or the views of the UP leaders of the Muslim League. By
: 1947, at Partition, a majority of Muslims in India supported
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: the creation of Pakistan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do you know? Was a referendum ever taken? The last election before
1947 was in 1946 which had a limited electorate. Muslim league fought it
on the basis of Lahore Resolution which called for 'Independent States'.
: According to the precepts of Islam, a Muslim is one who has borne
: witness to the Shahada. Eating pork or drinking alcohol or even
: calling Maulana Azad a "show-boy" does not reverse that act. Your
: basis for calling his actions hypocritical are ridiculous. Jinnah
: was a Muslim who supported the idea of an independent country
: for the Muslims of India. The issue of eating pork, etc. is
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: between him and God . . . despite your efforts to use it as
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Similarly,whether one is a Muslim or not is between oneself and God. If
you are arguing that religion is a personal matter, then how come you do
not see the absurdity of the idea of a nation based upon a common
religion?[In your reply, please do not give reference to Israel-Jews are
relatively unique in their being persecuted by European nations for ages.
Indian Muslims on the other hand are a diverse bunch and belong to the
different cutural groups that inhabit the Indian sub-continent.
: a tool for your argument. As a matter of fact, I would maintain
: that these very actions prove that he was not interested in
: maintaining a religious facade to dupe the world into thinking
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: that he was a devout Muslim.
Another netter has already posted quotes from M.C Chagla showing Jinnah
to be just like a politician-with a false facade.
: > : observation in 'Freedom at Midnight' is a bit
: > : facetious, since it serves no purpose. By the
: > : way, what were the references given by the
: > : authors for their characterization of Jinnah?
: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: > Read the book, Saif and find out. I cannot do your reading for you.
: You seem to do it willingly enough when it serves your purpose.
: A history book is only as good as its references. Your
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: curious unwillingness to post these references (as you
: obviously have a copy of "Freedom at Midnight") is inexplicable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No Saif, I don't have the book. In 1995, I had occassions to post
something from "Freedom at Midnight". At that time I had borrowed the
book from the library. The present quote on Jinnah was culled at that
time. I also don't feel obliged to borrow the book again to do your
reading for you. Why can you not borrow the book?
: Tch, tch, Nalinaksha. You're on shaky ground here. While it is
: incumbent upon Muslims to follow Islamic precepts, the only
: requirement for one to be a Muslim is the Shahada . . . nothing
: else. You are correct that pork is taboo, as is alcohol. And
: prayer is also a duty of every Muslim. However, failure to adhere
: to these precepts does not make an individual a non-Muslim. This
: is clearly specified in the Hadith. Therefore the Taliban would
: have to agree with me on this issue :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Considering that prayer has been made compulsory by Taliban I doubt that
you will ever repeat your statement to Taliban.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Anonymous (star...@btinternet.com) wrote:
: Jinnah never claimed to a devout muslim. He wore Western clothes, ate pork
: 1940 when the Pakistan resolution was passed and especially after Pakistan
: was made he gave up his earlier habits. He believed in Pakistan with all
References?
: sincerity and wanted it to a sort of secular country where the identity of
: the people was by Pakistan and not caste, ethnic origin or religion. If he
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Which is very nice and fine, but then why did he need a state for the
Muslims of India if the people of that country was not to be defined by
religion?
: would have lived longer today Pakistan would have been a much prosperous
: country. He was an honest,sincere and good leader. And that was important
: not his religious practices. Above all he always identified himself as a
: muslim. What his actions were, are between God and himself alone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since religion is the relation between God and man, then why should he
define Muslims to be a separate nation while breaking all the Islamic
injunctions in his private life. By the by are Parsis also people of the
book? I thought the Islamic law allows males to marry only women of the
book. Also it has been reported in the net that Jinnah was possibly gay.
In that case would that not take him out of Islam? [I have nothing
against gays, but my understanding of Islam tells me that homosexuality
is prohibited]
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Saif Al-Shirawi
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
> How do you know? Was a referendum ever taken? The last election before
> 1947 was in 1946 which had a limited electorate. Muslim league fought it
> on the basis of Lahore Resolution which called for 'Independent States'.
Pakistan is an independent state isn't it?
> Similarly,whether one is a Muslim or not is between oneself and God. If
> you are arguing that religion is a personal matter, then how come you do
> not see the absurdity of the idea of a nation based upon a common
> religion?[In your reply, please do not give reference to Israel-Jews are
> relatively unique in their being persecuted by European nations for ages.
> Indian Muslims on the other hand are a diverse bunch and belong to the
> different cutural groups that inhabit the Indian sub-continent.
Think of it as a place where Muslims can establish their own
laws, rather than as a nation based upon religion. In my
view, the entire Muslim ummah is one nation and Pakistan can
be seen as an extension of the Islamic belt stretching from
North Africa to South Asia.
> Considering that prayer has been made compulsory by Taliban I doubt that
> you will ever repeat your statement to Taliban.
Considering that the precepts of Islam aren't derived from the
Taliban, I don't think I will ever have to argue the issue with
them.
HRUSA1
Those who started this discussion are out to start outrage of the the
founding father of a great nation . People who show disrespect to the
recognized leaders of others are responsible for spreading hatred between
human beings . They commit a very serious crime of human rights violation
. I hope this kind of disrespect to Qaid-E-Azam will be condemned by all
sane people .
Kazmi
uha...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
: HRUSA1 (hru...@aol.com) wrote:
: Those who started this discussion are out to start outrage of the the
: Apart rfom whether Jinnah is good or bad Pakistan is not greatfounding
father of a great nation . People who show disrespect to the
: recognized leaders of others are responsible for spreading hatred between
: human beings . They commit a very serious crime of human rights violation
: . I hope this kind of disrespect to Qaid-E-Azam will be condemned by all
: sane people .
: Kazmi
:
Nusrat Rizvi
In <19970114131...@ladder01.news.aol.com> hru...@aol.com
(HRUSA1) writes:
>
>Those who started this discussion are out to start outrage of the the
>recognized leaders of others are responsible for spreading hatred
between human beings . They commit a very serious crime of human rights
condemned by all sane people .
>
>Kazmi
Dear Kazmi Sahib, it is obvious you are being carried away. Jinnah was
not a leader but an opportunist. He was singlehandedly responsible for
the bloodshed on the Indian subcontinent where millions lost their
lives and even more were made homeless. I can understand Paindoos
worshiping him cause he gave them a country, something they never could
have before. But please explain to me you as a Mohajir, how has your
lot improved since inception of Pakistan, ie, if you do not mind being
a Punjabi slave.
Nusrat Riavi
Rowayton, Conn
uha...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Nusrat Rizvi (rizv...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: In <19970114131...@ladder01.news.aol.com> hru...@aol.com
No body has ever advanced a convincing argument why Muslims are forbidden
pork. People who do eat pork are quite healthy.
Gailani
rafay <ra...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>>-uha...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>>->
>>->
>>-> No body has ever advanced a convincing argument why Muslims are forbidden
>>-> pork. People who do eat pork are quite healthy.
>>-the half belivers continously seek re-confirmation
>>-torn between two worlds, forever questioning
>>-and never resting their souls
>>-so belive in allah and or even belive in shaitan
>>-and you shall be at peace.
>>- Dr. Abid Kemal
Vuhayat believs in pork and he is at peace , so
be quiet Rafay.
rafay
do you think so ...ugh! how disgusting .... they are such dirty animals
.. ugh! as bad as eating octupuss.
sahibzada rafay khan
ps. gailani ... glad to have me back .........
shan
rafay <ra...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>>>-uha...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>>>->
>>>->
>>>-> No body has ever advanced a convincing argument why Muslims are forbidden
>>>-> pork. People who do eat pork are quite healthy.
Sorry to jumpin from nowhere but I just couldn't resist./
Pork is the filthiest animal on this Earth and so Allah has commanded it
Haram. And the people who do eat it; I can assure you; go sluttish.
asi...@atrmail2.attmail.com
In article <5cefph$8...@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk>,
sh...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Sorry to jumpin from nowhere but I just couldn't resist./
> Pork is the filthiest animal on this Earth and so Allah has commanded it
Need some lessons in the English Language, son?
Since when is Pork an animal ????
> Haram. And the people who do eat it; I can assure you; go sluttish.
>
If properly farm-raised , pigs are quite hygenic and their meat ( Pork ) is
equally nutitious.
Any meat-based diet increases the libidinal urges, but there is no evidence that
Pork makes you a slut ( what is sluttish BTW ??),despite all your ignorant
assertions and assurances.
Allah commanded Pork Haram just because pigs are ( are they ?? ) filthy !!! So,
did your Allah also command that poor Muslims in Somalia/South Asia are also
Haram(i) because thay are also filthy and unhygenic ?? Nice theory son ...
Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a progressive Muslim, not debilitated by the primitive
directives of the Sharia, but emancipated by liberal Western education. His
compatriots testify his fondness for the delicate wines and other alcoholic
beverages , so strictly forbidden by the Sharia. His stint at becoming a
Barrister , and consequent sojourn in England , is not so well documented. But ,
just as most progressive Muslims do in the US at these present times, he must
have had Pork in some form ( Sausage,Ham,Spare Ribs ...) in order to live the
lavish lifestyle that he was used to ( He wouldn't cook himself , would he ??).
So, don't turn in your grave when such irrelevant questions about redoubtable
facts are raised. Accept them with open minds,- Truth is mostly unpleasant.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
saa
There are a few things muslims are plainly expected to follow. There cannot
always be logical reasons for all religious believes be it muslim or not.
It is a test of muslims faith in what is expected of them.
shan <sh...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<5cefph$8...@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk>...
> rafay <ra...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
> >>>-uha...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
> >>>->
> >>>->
> >>>-> No body has ever advanced a convincing argument why Muslims are
forbidden
> >>>-> pork. People who do eat pork are quite healthy.
>
> Pork is the filthiest animal on this Earth and so Allah has commanded it
>
PRO786
I think you are too much away from your religon,anewer me why jew does not
work on saturdays,why christan goes to church sundays,everybody follows
his or her religon and its rules and regulations and no religon is without
rules and regulations.Why you do not eat dogs people eat in china and they
are very healthy and long living.
Any way you are free to eat pork and I hope you do.
Talking about Jinnah,If you are too much Americanise tell us why American
say
G.Washington father of nation,there was blood shed in American Civil War.
Nobody can gain freedom without bloodshed.
You must not call yourself Pakistani,If you do not like Jinnah You should
leave
Pakistan because ANY WAY MOHAMMED ALI JINNAH IS FOUNDER OF THIS
COUNTRY P A K I S T A N Z I N D A B A D
robin
asi...@atrmail2.attmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <5cefph$8...@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk>,
> If properly farm-raised , pigs are quite hygenic and their meat ( Pork ) is
> equally nutitious.
You wouldn't be a hog farmer by any chance, would you? "the
other white meat" remember!
Despite the hog industry's campaign red meat - beef or pork
seem to be best consumed in moderation.
>
> Any meat-based diet increases the libidinal urges, but there is no evidence that
> Pork makes you a slut ( what is sluttish BTW ??),despite all your ignorant
> assertions and assurances.
There is no evidence that " Any meat based diet increases libidinal
urges"!
> Allah commanded Pork Haram just because pigs are ( are they ?? ) filthy !!! So,
> did your Allah also command that poor Muslims in Somalia/South Asia are also
> Haram(i) because thay are also filthy and unhygenic ?? Nice theory son ...
It is NOT only Allah, but even I would strongly discourage you from
eating S Asians, Somalis etc
Robin