Are Pakistani-American Women Whores ??
Rkhan
Hi Everyone,
I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
the things have changed.
Sleepless in NewYork
Mark Karim
In <31a7b8d5...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com> Rk...@columbia.edu
I think Pakistani men are beginning to change their attitude towards
women now...but whether they think a non-virgin is a "whore" or not
depends on that individual. You can't generalize.
Omar F. Lari
Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) writes:
>I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
>and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
>conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
>men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
>not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
>more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
>a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
>the things have changed.
>Sleepless in NewYork
Dear Sleepless in New York,
(I hope this doesn't sound like a Dear Abby response! : ) )
You asked for advice/opinions, and I'm sure that includes frankness.
This is certainly a dilemma, without a painless solution.
First, don't get married unwillingly -- it will probably lead to
a miserable marriage. If you don't want to marry the Pakistani man that
your parents have suggested, tell them. Marriage can wait until you've sorted
things out.
Regarding the "whore" issue, your mileage will vary. For many of us
(especially me!) chastity is very important -- it's like a gauge of moral
integrity. For others, maybe they don't care so much. Times have changed
quite a bit -- don't think that every single person in Pakistan is necessarily
'pure' either. However, if you fall short of your spouse's expectations in
such a major aspect, it has the potential to create a huge problem. Honesty,
difficult as it may be, is the best approach before marrying anyone.
It's downright unfortunate that you're facing this chastity & boyfriend issue.
If you seek support in the form of "marry the American boyfriend", sorry, I
can't help you there. I will say, keep in mind a balance between the
respect for and happiness of your parents and your own.
And bear in mind all religious, family, social, etc. implications of your
decision.
Then again, this advice is sooo general... : )
Take it as you will. Best of luck.
Peace,
Omar Lari
PS This has little relation with being a Pakistani born and raised in America.
The implication from the subject header is that all such women are "whores",
which is naturally false.
sohail malik
Do what you please.... cause you only live once...If people can't accept
who you are then tell em to kiss your rear...As to the "whore" issue I
know a lot of girls who claim to be virgin marry back in Pakistan and have
been with multiple partners. The fact that you are here in Amreica and
have no desire to go back go ahead and marry the guy if you wnat....good
luck
Mark Karim
Fatima Ibrahim Al-Shirawi
A whore isn't someone who's not a virgin. A whore's someone
who sleeps around with a number of men. Actually, many
women are still virgins but have been up to no good with
a substantial number of men . . . I would classify these
as whores, despite the fact that they're still virgins.
It's quite prevalent among women in Pakistan, Iran, the
Arab countries and their expatriates living in the U.S.
and Europe.
It's not what you do . . . it's how many people you've
done it with.
Saif Al-Shirawi.
Bilal A. Bhutta
In article <31a7b8d5...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>, Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) writes:
|>
|> Hi Everyone,
|>
|> and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
|> conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
|> men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
|> not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
|> more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
|> a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
|> the things have changed.
|>
|> Sleepless in NewYork
Dear Sleepless in New York,
Though I can't say that experience with women goes beyond simple social
contact, what you are asking are more ethical questions than simple social
concerns. Obviously you parents wanted you to have convervative ethics, which
by your admission you don't. Nothing wrong with that since mankind after all
has been endowed with free will.
As for your question on whore, depends on your concept of who a whore is. If
you think its a whore is one who only takes money in return for her service,
then the definition doesn't apply to you. But if a whore renders her services
for favours (gifts, dinners, movies etc.) is the title still jusified? What I
describe here is basically the dating scene prevelent in the Western World. So
take your pick. Obviously you have choosen your path based on what you think,
so why not choose the title dependent on what you think. Also, you'll be
surprised to know that many prostitutes out there don't think of themselves
as prostitutes, but rather 'self employed.' This suits their conscience fine.
Also, since you have not heeded your parent's advice and teaching so far,
why the sudden change of heart in considering their wishes? All these questions
are deceptly way deeper then one might thing. Also think of what the Pakistani
dude would think of (and do) if he were to know of your past. I'm not implying
that you don't have the capacity to change, but it won't be a trivial change.
Again it comes down on what ethincs (if any) you believe in. Sin is obviously
much harder to give up once you know pleasures of it, but doable nonetheless.
If you don't decide to or won't change your opionions than what difference does
it make if you ignore your parent's on yet another thing. Conscience is all
good and fine but it should NOT be used as a excuse to excercise selective
morality, i.e. 'yes I can sleep around and its okey' and 'oh I can't disobey my
parents, that would be bad.'
One thing that does go against you if you decide to marry you current boy
friend (assuming that he is non-muslim) is that if you do, in all probability
your family will cut off all relations with you seeing that your family is
conservative. Are you willing to pay such a heavy price for your freedom and
for your future family? It wasn't a fool who said that the rights of the many
outweigh the rights of the few. You are not just making the decision for yourself
but also for your future offsprings. Hopefully that'll sober you up.
The "me me" culture has apparently brought down to Western civilization's
structure by ripping apart the very social fabric and the family unit. You
either believe in it or don't. If you do, then I would suggest that you do
regard your current practices as prostitute like; if you don't then more power
to you. I just hope that you'll be able to sleep during night knowing that your
(future) daughter might one day follow her mother's foot steps.
Just my two cents worth. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Bilal A. Bhutta
---
phe...@athena.mit.edu
Maina Saggers
Not true. It's mostly the reason why you do it.
Mark Karim
In <4oai08$i...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> phe...@athena.mit.edu (Bilal
A long but excellent post. Really excellent. Couldn't have said it
better myself. I especially agree with you that the "me me" generation
has destroyed Western civilization.
soh...@netcom.com
Rkhan (Rk...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: Hi Everyone,
: I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
: and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
: conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
: men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
: not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
: more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
: a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
: the things have changed.
: Sleepless in NewYork
Now lets just look at the header of this post .
Path:
newsbf01.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com!howland.reston
.ans.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!usenet
From: Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Are Pakistani-American Women Whores ??
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 01:56:47 GMT
Organization: PSINet/Pipeline USA
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31a7b8d5...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.8.150.7
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
the post comes from a Uknet Psinntp server but carries a address of
get this columbia . and a org of Pipeline Usa . Now if this is not a
flame bait what is ?
--
Ahmad Waheed Malik
Rkhan (Rk...@columbia.edu) wrote:
[Deleted stuff]
Well Ms Khan since you have been born and raised here it shouldn't be a
problem for you to have a relationship with a "non-Pakistani"...just make
sure this guy is "IT" for you...for the rest of the shpeel about...culture
and morals...don't worry about it too much...happiness is where heart is!
we unfortunately have a very deep sense of hypocracy when it comes to the
sexes...without going into frivilous details...men in our culture are
free to do things [anything] and women are not...calling someone a whore
[generally but not exclusively] maybe sometimes is the "sour grapes"
phenomenon...and besides whore and non-whore is irrelevant its a state of
mind!...who are we to judge?....
But marrying in another culture could be quite challenging!...along with
going against the norm and a conservative culture...but like I said,
since you are an american...you shouldn't have any problems...
******************************************************************************
I don't want to be the member of a club,
which would have me as a member.
[Groucho Marx]
Ahmad Waheed Malik, MBA(Econ)
Georgia State University
e-mail: gs0...@panther.gsu.edu
phone: (770) 938-6978
******************************************************************************
SYED W. HUSSAIN
In <Omar_Lari.1...@bunter.dartmouth.edu>
Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu (Omar F. Lari) writes:
>Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) writes:
>>I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here
went to school
>>and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My
family is a
>>conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the
fact is I had
>>men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back
home. I do
>>not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are
dating for
>>more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life
think that if
>>a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it
still true or
>>the things have changed.
>>Sleepless in NewYork
>
America.
>The implication from the subject header is that all such women are
"whores",
>which is naturally false.
Dear sleepless:
Unfortunately, the idea that any woman who sleeps with a number of men
is a whore is more iconic than a stigma. The fact is we as human beings
move from threshold to threshhold so to speak. It is like moving from a
room to another room. The rules are, once you cross a threshold and
take that step into the new room. 1. you cannot go back. 2. the rule of
the game of life change.
It is a general belief that we all have the tendency to have multiple
partners in life. It is only the fear of crossing the threshold that
keeps us from excercising the desire.
The reason why even if you return to the previous room the occupants do
not accept you is, you have now aqcuired a new capability. IT is a
general belief that a person who has acqured the ability to cross the
threshold will do so at a drop of a hat. By running off to he next room
beyond you will leave too much thrash for others to clean up. YOU would
have left pain and dismay in your wake.
The only recourse is to have a discussion with your parents on this
aspect. IF it is difficult to face the parent and the family directly
please have the courage to get help from a reliable elder who is
willing to undertake the task of being an arbitrator.
As for your future, you ahve 2 choices. By yourself find a partner in
marriage and for your sake stick with him come hell or high water.
If that is impossible, take on the challange of being a singles life
style. Keep yourself open for any possibilties and pray a lot. Prayer
helps a person maintain a focus and maintain a balance in life.
You also have a third choice, become very good at your business and
acquire much wealth. Then you are in a postion to dictate your terms to
the world.
Syed W. Hussain
Aftab Karim
Maina Saggers wrote:
>
> Fatima Ibrahim Al-Shirawi wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > It's not what you do . . . it's how many people you've
> > done it with.
>
> Not true. It's mostly the reason why you do it.
Which brings me to the natural question, Maina: why DO you do it? ;)
Love,
Affable Affectionate Affie Aftab
Maina Saggers
Ahmad Waheed Malik wrote:
>
> Rkhan (Rk...@columbia.edu) wrote:
>
> [Deleted stuff]
>
> Well Ms Khan since you have been born and raised here it shouldn't be a
> problem for you to have a relationship with a "non-Pakistani"...just make
> sure this guy is "IT" for you...for the rest of the shpeel about...culture
> and morals...don't worry about it too much...happiness is where heart is!
> we unfortunately have a very deep sense of hypocracy when it comes to the
> sexes...without going into frivilous details...men in our culture are
> free to do things [anything] and women are not...calling someone a whore
> [generally but not exclusively] maybe sometimes is the "sour grapes"
> phenomenon...and besides whore and non-whore is irrelevant its a state of
> mind!...who are we to judge?....
>
> But marrying in another culture could be quite challenging!...along with
> going against the norm and a conservative culture...but like I said,
> since you are an american...you shouldn't have any problems...
The only sensible post I've seen on this thread.
Maina Saggers
No sweetie, the real question is why do YOU do it, ie. stalk me from one thread to another?
Having a hard time dealing with rejection?
AYAZ SOMJEE
Rkhan (Rk...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: Hi Everyone,
: I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
: and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
: conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
: men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
: not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
: more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
: a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or ***********************
: the things have changed.
Would you change your decision based on the advice you get from SCP???
Az.
Omar F. Lari
sye...@ix.netcom.com(SYED W. HUSSAIN) writes:
>The only recourse is to have a discussion with your parents on this
>aspect. IF it is difficult to face the parent and the family directly
>please have the courage to get help from a reliable elder who is
>willing to undertake the task of being an arbitrator.
Yes, good point. It's extremely important to maintain a healthy relationship
with one's family, as long as the demands are reasonable. One's overall
happiness is not just dependent on who one marries, but also their relationship
with their own family. "Discussion" is the name of the game.
As Syed indicates, this is might not be easy..
>(first two choices Snipped)
>You also have a third choice, become very good at your business and
>acquire much wealth. Then you are in a postion to dictate your terms to
>the world.
Well, this I would disagree with. Striving for success in one's career is
very good, but I don't think that it will solve this dilemma at all.
That is, money is no good here.
"Dictat(ing) your terms to the world" sounds somewhat self-centered.
After all, the focus here is on others sentiments (ie. family).
If the original poster didn't care about these, she would simply stay with her
current boyfriend and close her ears to all voices of disapproval, no?
Apparently, she does care, and wants to work things out so no one is hurt,
but she is better off. In a sense, striving for pareto efficiency? ; )
Peace,
Omar
Omar F. Lari
gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU (Ahmad Waheed Malik) writes:
>(snip)
>we unfortunately have a very deep sense of hypocracy when it comes to the
>sexes...without going into frivilous details...men in our culture are
>free to do things [anything] and women are not...
Men are not completely free to do *anything*, but, yes, there is often a
cultural double-standard, where men get away with things that women cannot.
Peace,
Omar Lari
Aftab Karim
Maina Saggers <ma...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>> Which brings me to the natural question, Maina: why DO you do it? ;)
>
>No sweetie, the real question is why do YOU do it, ie. stalk me from one thread to another?
>
>Having a hard time dealing with rejection?
Not really, dove. Think of it as my genuine appreciation of your good work.
Besides, you certainly don't lack real 'stalkers' from thread to thread on SCP,
for you to be attacking poor ol' moir!
Sonia V Lathia
The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
"expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
backs and respected for NOT being virgins! And the pity of the whole
situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
game...black, white, asian...but when it comes time for them to get
married they want an innocent shy girl who knows nothing about sex other
than what they are taught by their husbands.
Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
committment!
I hope everything works out for you.
Regards,
Sonia
PS...please note that I don't think that ALL guys are as I've described.
I am talking about those that I have come in contact with who act in
this manner.
Ali Zaidi
Sonia V Lathia <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> wrote:
>The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
>Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
>"expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
>backs and respected for NOT being virgins! And the pity of the whole
>situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
Stuff deleted....
>Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
>relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
>committment!
>
>I hope everything works out for you.
>Regards,
>Sonia
>
You are correct. Pakistani guys are almost all pigs, or atleast the ones
I have had the pleasure of knowing here in the States as well as in
Karachi.
Most of us have only one thing on our minds and that is SEX. And those
of us who do like/want to have a relationship, consider sex as an
integral part of it.
There is nothing wrong with two people who like each other and feel
close/comfortable enough to have sex. But this rule should be applicable
to everyone and not just us males...
regards,
Ali
zahira islam
On Sun, 26 May 1996, Rkhan wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
> and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
> conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
> men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
> not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
> more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
> a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
> the things have changed.
>
> Sleepless in NewYork
Why don't you talk to your parents and ask them about the opinions of
people from Pakistan? I am sure they'll help you understand the culture
and religion in more depth!
Zahira Islam
Asim Malik
>
>You also have a third choice, become very good at your business and
>acquire much wealth. Then you are in a postion to dictate your terms to
>the world.
>
Hmmm...I read the subject, and I read these lines...maybe it's just
that I have a sick mind? ;-)
- Asim
Hasan
Dear Sleepless,
I am not giving you any advise, but what I will tell you here may help you
decide what to do. I came to US from Pakistan when I was 25. My family in
Pakistan is very educated and somewhat Westernized too. I use to think that I
was an open minded guy who had couple to drinks here and there even in Pakista
That atleast what I THOUGHT I was. Well, I came to NewYork finished my studies
got a graet job, good apartment and fell in love with a very pretty Pakistani
girl. I really loved her. Before her, I did date some girls here and there but
nothing seroius. I went out with her for about 2 years. Looking back, I can say
that I used to think NOTHING can seperate us. Then I found out something
that changed everything. I found out that this girl got pregnant when she was
in Pakistan. ( That was more than 14 years ago) and also she had sexual
relationship with her boss here in New York.
Its been five years now, I didnot marry her. I still love her. I still go out
with women, mostly american, but I just can not think that my daughter will be
raised by a women who had no virtues. Remember this is coming from a person who
is neither religious nor a forerunner in purity. We Middle Eastern are all the
same I guess ( Guys I need you comments here ) We date anyone but marry only
one who can raise our children like back home.
Hasan
NYC
Naeem Siddiqi
fa...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Fatima Ibrahim Al-Shirawi) wrote:
>A whore isn't someone who's not a virgin. A whore's someone
>who sleeps around with a number of men. Actually, many
>women are still virgins but have been up to no good with
++ how do you define 'no good' ? flirting ? there is such a double
standard when it comes to women. no one shows this kind of concern
with asian boys going around strip clubs and bars. but when women
start doing the same they're 'whores' !!
>a substantial number of men . . . I would classify these
>as whores, despite the fact that they're still virgins.
++ is this classification as prescribed by Linneaus ?
>It's not what you do . . . it's how many people you've
>done it with.
++ I would add 'where you've done it' to that.
as the man said to his friend 'a woman who sleeps with everybody is a
slut, a woman who sleeps with everybody except me is a bitch'.
** Naeem Siddiqi **
Omar F. Lari
Sonia V Lathia <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> writes:
>The shame of it all is that though girls are
>"expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
>backs and respected for NOT being virgins!
This alludes to the double-standard that often
occurs. These guys might be "patted on their backs" by some of their peers
(who are similarly lost) and respect each other as 'studs'.
A downright shame.
However, that's only in their own clique. They are certainly NOT respected
for this moral depravity in Pakistani communities. Thank God for that.
Peace,
Omar Lari
(Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu)
Omar F. Lari
Ali Zaidi <sza...@lynx.neu.edu> writes:
>>You are correct. Pakistani guys are almost all pigs, or atleast the ones
>>I have had the pleasure of knowing here in the States as well as in
>>Karachi.
Well then, Ali, you've met all the wrong ones!
Don't portray our culture in such a bad light, please.
For every so-called "pig", I can find you an angel.
(Okay, maybe not find an angel, but a decent Pakistani fellow)
: )
>>Most of us have only one thing on our minds and that is SEX. And those
>>of us who do like/want to have a relationship, consider sex as an
>>integral part of it.
>>There is nothing wrong with two people who like each other and feel
>>close/comfortable enough to have sex. But this rule should be applicable
>>to everyone and not just us males...
No way. This "rule" (above) would only serve to expedite the destruction of
the moral fabric of our society. Conjugal relations are just that -- for
married partners only. All else leads to hurt, problems, (and yes, even
disease).
Perhaps times are changing... Then just call me old-fashioned.
Salaam,
Omar Lari
(Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu)
Omar F. Lari
nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Naufal A. Khan) writes:
>(snip)
>(Omar L., Maina S. etc. - you disappoint me ... you've been
>here long enough to identify a flame-bait when you see it ... even without
>looking at the paths etc.).
>Naufal.
*grin*
I recognized it as possible flame-bait upon reading the message, because
the header showed conflicting information and also email bounced,
So, giving it the benefit of the doubt, I still chose to post a reply.
However, flamebait or not, it doesn't really matter -- it spurred an
interesting discourse, and not a frenzy of flames.
If the original poster's intentions in posting the message were insincere or
malicious, well, their scheme has failed.
: )
Peace,
Omar Lari
(Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu)
PS You won't be able to identify flame-bait all the time (Without looking at
the paths. Even then, you might encounter difficulty.) It never hurts to give
the poster the benefit of the doubt.
Sincerely asking for such advice/discussion on this forum is not very common,
but it's also not unheard of.
Ali Zaidi
Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu (Omar F. Lari) wrote:
>
>Well then, Ali, you've met all the wrong ones!
>Don't portray our culture in such a bad light, please.
It has nothing to do with our culture...Its human nature. We our
young, healthy, and overflowing with hormones which creates a
need(physical) and desire to have sex...In our so-called culture,
we are only being told to suppress such needs, and this leads to
some really sick sexual practices among teenagers.
I can't recall the exact date of the Karachi's Herald issue(couple
of years ago), in which this issue was discussed. And one of the
astonishing things that the author discovererd was that,
since it is difficult to indulge in extra-marital sexual
activities, young people(both man and woman) were using "exotic"
methods to satisfy their needs.
Intercourse with animals, was found not to be so uncommon among
the people of rural Sindh and Punjab! People from NWFP, where the
tradition of marriage puts all the financial burden on the male,
were found to indulge in homosexuality, since some men just
couldn't afford to get married, at the right age.
Similar practices were found among young people in Baluchiston.
As far as Karachi is concerned, young people are getting more
sexually active then ever, as far as my experience is concerned...
>For every so-called "pig", I can find you an angel.
>(Okay, maybe not find an angel, but a decent Pakistani fellow)
>: )
Yes, there are exceptions....
>No way. This "rule" (above) would only serve to expedite the destruction of
>the moral fabric of our society. Conjugal relations are just that -- for
>married partners only. All else leads to hurt, problems, (and yes, even
>disease).
Yatty yatty yatta...What is morality? Define morality to me first.
Morality has nothing to do with sex.
>Perhaps times are changing... Then just call me old-fashioned.
I only have deep respect for you and stand, but a need is a need..
>Salaam,
>Omar Lari
>(Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu)
regards,
Ali Zaidi
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition
from mediocre minds.."
Albert Einstein
an62...@anon.penet.fi
> From: soh...@netcom.com
> Subject: Re: Are Pakistani-American Women Whores ??
> Message-ID: <sohailDs...@netcom.com>
> Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
>
> Rkhan (Rk...@columbia.edu) wrote:
>
> : Hi Everyone,
>
> : I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
> : and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
> : conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
> : men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
> : not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
> : more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
> : a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
> : the things have changed.
>
> : Sleepless in NewYork
>
>
> Now lets just look at the header of this post .
>
> Path:
> newsbf01.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com!howland.reston
> .ans.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!usenet
> From: Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan)
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
> Subject: Are Pakistani-American Women Whores ??
> Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 01:56:47 GMT
> Organization: PSINet/Pipeline USA
> Lines: 13
> Message-ID: <31a7b8d5...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.8.150.7
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
>
>
> the post comes from a Uknet Psinntp server but carries a address of
> get this columbia . and a org of Pipeline Usa . Now if this is not a
> flame bait what is ?
> --
Subject line gives it away.
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Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
Please, report inappropriate use to ab...@anon.penet.fi
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Nusrat Rizvi
On May 28, 1996 22:24:19 in article <Re: Are Pakistani-American Women
>irl. I really loved her. Before her, I did date some girls here and there
but
>nothing seroius. I went out with her for about 2 years. Looking back, I
can
>say
>that I used to think NOTHING can seperate us. Then I found out something
>that changed everything. I found out that this girl got pregnant when she
was
>in Pakistan. ( That was more than 14 years ago) and also she had sexual
>relationship with her boss here in New York.
>
>Its been five years now, I didnot marry her. I still love her. I still go
out
>with women, mostly american, but I just can not think that my daughter
will be
will be able
to overlook all her flaws. If you can not do that, then the love is
obviously not there.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
defender of the meek, attacker of the pompous
Maina Saggers
Naufal A. Khan wrote:
>
> (Omar L., Maina S. etc. - you disappoint me ... you've been
> here long enough to identify a flame-bait when you see it ... even without
> looking at the paths etc.).
True, but why discriminate? I've responded to plenty of other baits: yours, Rafay's, Altaf's,
Vik's (Oops!! Sorry Vik, I won't say that again!), etc.
Shahid Karim
In past whole year, I saw first time a very nice reply from you. I
apprecaite your thoughts about Love.
Regards
Shahid
Maina Saggers
ok, ok, before someone tries to crucify me, i meant affable, affectionate, arrogant affie, and
not altaf.
a...@priceles.demon.co.uk
On Sun, 26 May 1996 01:56:47 GMT, Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) wrote:
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
>and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
>conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
>men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
>not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
>more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
>a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
>the things have changed.
>
>Sleepless in NewYork
STUPID BITCH
kick the fucking bastard and marry a real man, not a KHUSRA from the
states.
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <4ohnso$e...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>,
Nusrat Rizvi <rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com> wrote:
>
>You know what they say, "Love conquers all". If you truly love her, you
>will be able
>to overlook all her flaws. If you can not do that, then the love is
>obviously not there.
There is love, and then there is real life. There is a differnce, and I
think that is what the poster was referring to.
Ahmer
Omar F. Lari
Ha...@Interacess.com (Hasan) writes:
>(snip)
>Its been five years now, I didnot marry her. I still love her. I still go out
>with women, mostly american, but I just can not think that my daughter will be
>is neither religious nor a forerunner in purity. We Middle Eastern are all the
>same I guess ( Guys I need you comments here ) We date anyone but marry only
>one who can raise our children like back home.
"Middle Eastern"? Okay, it's a stretch, but, hey, why not... : )
But we're definitely not all the same.
Hasan, does this (ie. "date anyone") mean that the dating is just for your
fun, or is the intention, in your dating, to find a wife?
I think it's important to understand that we expect certain attributes in our
wives to be, and it's only fair and right that they expect the same out of us.
What I'm questioning is the validity of the practice (in the last sentence
quoted above).
But, yes, it's important to marry the right person so together you can raise
your family in the best way (as you said, "like back home").
Problem is, how one goes about finding that right someone.
I might contend that this random dating is not the best way.
Salaam,
Omar Lari
(Omar...@bunter.dartmouth.edu)
Maina Saggers
Rafay Khan wrote:
>
> ms. maina saggers, what is the probelm with you dartmutt people. always making wild
> accussations. i have never baited you ... let alone flame-bait you.
Quite true, you never did manage to bait me. Though you did cast the line a couple of times.
Admit it, you ruffian you, the hunkmania pix were your fat (or fit?) worm.
nusrat rizvi
On May 29, 1996 21:07:23 in article <Re: Are Pakistani-American Women
<<Its been five years now, I didnot marry her. I still love her. I still go
<<out with women, mostly american, but I just can not think that my
daughter
<<will be
>>
>>You know what they say, "Love conquers all". If you truly love her, you
>>will be able
>>to overlook all her flaws. If you can not do that, then the love is
>>obviously not there.
>>Nusrat Rizvi
> In past whole year, I saw first time a very nice reply from you. I
> apprecaite your thoughts about Love.
>
>Regards
>Shahid
There is nothing unusual about my post. This like all other contain words
of truth for
all to see, learn and benefit by. Like my Sainted Grandmother used to say,
"Naiky kar
darya meiN me dal."
nusrat rizvi
rowayton, conn
nusrat rizvi
On May 29, 1996 21:13:45 in article <Re: Are Pakistani-American Women
>ms. maina saggers, what is the probelm with you dartmutt people. always
making
>wild
>accussations. i have never baited you ... let alone flame-bait you.
>
In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has embarked
on a policy
of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this idiotic
policy that brought
dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning.
Believe you me, their
SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy
schools.
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <31acea5a...@news.demon.co.uk>,
<a...@priceles.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>STUPID BITCH
>kick the fucking bastard and marry a real man, not a KHUSRA from the
>states.
As I have stated previously, on repeated occasions, eloquence know sno
bounds on SCP.
Ahmer
Saboohi Husain
Sonia V Lathia <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> wrote:
> The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
> Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
> "expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
> backs and respected for NOT being virgins! And the pity of the whole
> situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
> game...black, white, asian...but when it comes time for them to get
> married they want an innocent shy girl who knows nothing about sex other
> than what they are taught by their husbands.
> Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
> relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
> committment!
I don't know about India but I am pretty much sure you are generalizing
when it comes to Pakistan. Noone, either a man or a woman, is applause
for this kind of moral deficiency. May be there will be some people in some
social circle (Who have forgotten their relegion and culture on there
way to getting rich) who are proud of such behavior but the big part of
Pakistani society is not like that.
Some people says this is your life or you have only one life to live. Some
people ask what is morality? Well, to me it's not really that hard question.
In this society to justify things we twist a simple question like this.
IMO, self control is the most important thing. You have to make few rules
for yourself, you can't just go round and round doing what makes you happy.
We live in a society and we have to care about the people around us. Most
importantly if you don't have some good values to pass on to next generation
imagine what next generation would be. If you keep up this me me selfish
attitude then may be not today maybe not tomorrow but one day you will
find yourself all alone.
There is another important point we are forgetting...Those of us who left
our country and now living in different culture, will never be excepted as
American or whatever. We will always be PAkistani American. African American
have been living here for centuries but still they are blacks or African
american. If we forget where we are coming from, what is our culture,
relegion then one day we will lose our identity. We will not be American
and we will not be Pakistani...Who we will be? I don't know but even the
thought of such time is scary.
Saboohi
Raju Malik
Maina Saggers wrote:
>
> Ahmad Waheed Malik wrote:
> >
> > Rkhan (Rk...@columbia.edu) wrote:
> >
> > [Deleted stuff]
> >
> > But marrying in another culture could be quite challenging!...along with
> > going against the norm and a conservative culture...but like I said,
> > since you are an american...you shouldn't have any problems...
>
> The only sensible post I've seen on this thread.
"Sensible"? because it suits you ?
Isn't this a typical "American-born" or "American-raised"'s response?
C'mon Miss Saggers you can do better than this.
Why do you make such excuses to hide your own inferiority complex?
The fact is Miss RKhan is a stereotype. She thinks desis are inferior
and by marrying an American, she will be elevating herself.
Inspite of numerous good-looking and caring Desis living here, she
couldn't find one for herself?
C'MON MISS RKHAN STOP MAKING EXCUSES.
Shahid Karim
AQAY1
ra...@altair.com (Rafay Khan) wrote:
>Naufal A. Khan (nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
>: In article <31ACAC...@dartmouth.edu>,
>: Maina Saggers <ma...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>: ..>Naufal A. Khan wrote:
>: ..>.>
>: ..>.> (Omar L., Maina S. etc. - you disappoint me ... you've been
>: ..>.> here long enough to identify a flame-bait when you see it ... even without
>: ..>.> looking at the paths etc.).
>: ..>
>: ..>
>: ..>True, but why discriminate? I've responded to plenty of other baits:
>: ..>yours, Rafay's, Altaf's, Vik's (Oops!! Sorry Vik, I won't say that
>: ..>again!), etc.
>
>: You're probably right about this guy Rafay but I never baited you - I may
>: have charmed you but ( given my irresistably charming personality ) that
>: can't be helped.
>
>: Please keep Vik's name out of this - you just continue replaying the
>: trauma.
>
>i must state again, i never bait or even flame-bait for i am an honourable man.
>
>sahibzada rafay khan
i am sorry but i couldnt resist this one ...
" and they are honourable men " -- Julius Ceaser -- shakespear
with due respect Sahebzada saheb would u mind stating what and who are "
honurable men " ...
"it is I O 'Ceaser .. Brutus..... "
U know me well
Omar F. Lari
rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com(nusrat rizvi) spewed:
>In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has embarked
>on a policy
>of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this idiotic
>policy that brought
>dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning.
>Believe you me, their
>SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy
>schools.
Dear Mr. Pompous Rizvi,
These personal attacks are uncalled for. If you'd like to check on my SAT
score, you can call Dartmouth or the ETS, but you can rest assured that it
is certainly above and beyond what you could ever dream of achieving.
Along the same note, I know Maina, and have no doubt about her high level of
achievement. You have nothing on her.
About the visa business, I was born here in the U.S.
If you want to play this game of making up fictitious stories, everyone could
do that. About how you married your American wife both to get American
citizenship and to get her wealth. The previous statement is false, of
course, but keep in mind that that is the exact game you are playing -- making
up lies for the sake of offending others. Remember, two can play that game.
However, some of us are above that immoral level.
Sincerely,
Omar F. Lari
I hope it's not the "sour grapes" syndrome, Mr. Rizvi.
Rest assured, no one has said anything about your kids' colleges.
Nor do I hope they will.
Maina Saggers
nusrat rizvi wrote:
>
> In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has embarked
> on a policy
> of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this idiotic
> policy that brought
> dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning.
> Believe you me, their
> SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy
> schools.
You're foaming at the mouth darling. Get a grip.
Maina Saggers
rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com(nusrat rizvi) spewed:
>
> Dear Mr. Pompous Rizvi,
> These personal attacks are uncalled for. If you'd like to check on my SAT
> score, you can call Dartmouth or the ETS, but you can rest assured that it
> is certainly above and beyond what you could ever dream of achieving.
> Along the same note, I know Maina, and have no doubt about her high level of
> achievement. You have nothing on her.
Hey Omeo, thanks for the vote of confidence! :-)
Farrukh Naqvi
In article <4olbk7$s...@frankensun.altair.com>, ra...@altair.com (Rafay Khan) writes:
|> Naufal A. Khan (nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
|> : In article <31ACAC...@dartmouth.edu>,
|> : Maina Saggers <ma...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
|> : ..>Naufal A. Khan wrote:
|> : ..>.>
|> : ..>.> (Omar L., Maina S. etc. - you disappoint me ... you've been
|> : ..>.> here long enough to identify a flame-bait when you see it ... even without
|> : ..>.> looking at the paths etc.).
|> : ..>
|> : ..>True, but why discriminate? I've responded to plenty of other baits:
|> : ..>yours, Rafay's, Altaf's, Vik's (Oops!! Sorry Vik, I won't say that
|> : ..>again!), etc.
|> : You're probably right about this guy Rafay but I never baited you - I may
|> : have charmed you but ( given my irresistably charming personality ) that
|> : can't be helped.
|> : Please keep Vik's name out of this - you just continue replaying the
|> : trauma.
|> i must state again, i never bait or even flame-bait for i am an honourable man.
|> sahibzada rafay khan
Your "name" and "honour" in the same sentence...I was hoping that god would
strike me dead before that day....
Farrukh Naqvi.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______
\____ | Farrukh Naqvi email:farruk...@amd.com
/| | | Sr. Product Development Engineer Phone:(512)-602-2579
| |___| | Advanced Architectural Development Fax :(512)-602-1448
|____/ \| Advanced Micro Devices, Austin, TX
__________________________________________________________________________
Farrukh Naqvi
In article <4ok0ua$j...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>, rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com(nusrat rizvi) writes:
|> On May 29, 1996 21:13:45 in article <Re: Are Pakistani-American Women
|> Whores ??>, 'ra...@altair.com (Rafay Khan)' wrote:
|>
|>
|> >ms. maina saggers, what is the probelm with you dartmutt people. always making wild
|> >accussations. i have never baited you ... let alone flame-bait you.
|> >
|> >sahibzada rafay khan
|>
|> of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this idiotic policy that brought
|> dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning. Believe you me, their
|> SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy schools.
|>
|> rowayton, conn
|> defender of the meek, attacker of the pompous
Alas too late for you to get in...Mr. Rizvi...how can you pass judgement on them...maybe
they have very high SAT scores...you never know...if a dimwit like you is allowed to
stay in this country, so what is your problem.
Farrukh Naqvi.
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <4ok0ua$j...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>,
>In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has
>embarked on a policy of paying back to miniority for years of
>mistreatment. It is this idiotic policy that brought dimwits like Saggar
>and Omar to these institution of higher learning. Believe you me, their
>SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy
>schools.
Ahmer
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <31ADF3...@dartmouth.edu>,
Maina Saggers <ma...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>Quite true, you never did manage to bait me. Though you did cast the
>line a couple of times. Admit it, you ruffian you, the hunkmania pix were
>your fat (or fit?) worm.
Against popular opinion, let me say that all of us on SCP are not
ruffians. Take Naufal for example, for is he not a nice charming
fellow. Same can be said for Mr. Naeem Siddiqui, but alas Rafay.....
Ahmer
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <4omvb8$9...@frankensun.altair.com>,
Rafay Khan <ra...@altair.com> wrote:
>Maina Saggers (ma...@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
>i thought you would have understood when i gave you that URL ..... alas
>the humour evaded you. next time think twice, it takes more than snappy
>quips to interest the sahibzada.
That is why Sahibzada never like Charlie Brown. No understanding of
humor. That is what has lead SRK to a life long admiration of Murphy Brown.
Ahmer
AYAZ SOMJEE
rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com wrote:
: On May 29, 1996 21:13:45 in article <Re: Are Pakistani-American Women
:
:
: >ms. maina saggers, what is the probelm with you dartmutt people. always
: making
: >wild
: >accussations. i have never baited you ... let alone flame-bait you.
: >
: >sahibzada rafay khan
: on a policy
: of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this idiotic
: policy that brought
: dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning.
: Believe you me, their
: SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy
: schools.
Rizvi Sahib; this is called _aa bail mujhey maar_ (number of legs can
be changed from four to two). Have fun...
Az. [... chances are she will take the bait ...]
Maina Saggers
Rafay Khan wrote:
>
> i thought you would have understood when i gave you that URL ..... alas the humour evaded you.
actually no it didn't. but obviously mine left you reeling. too bad.
> next time think twice, it takes more than snappy quips to interest the sahibzada.
next time? sorry kid, next time hit on somebody your own size.
Shahbaz Khalid
Get a life you all.
Gailani
ra...@altair.com (Rafay Khan) wrote:
>>-Sonia V Lathia (gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU) wrote:
>>-: The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
>>-: Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
>>-: "expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
>>-: backs and respected for NOT being virgins! And the pity of the whole
>>-: situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
>>-: game...black, white, asian...but when it comes time for them to get
>>-: married they want an innocent shy girl who knows nothing about sex other
>>-: than what they are taught by their husbands.
>>-: Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
>>-: relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
>>-: committment!
>>-: I hope everything works out for you.
>>-: Regards,
>>-: Sonia
>>-: PS...please note that I don't think that ALL guys are as I've described.
>>-: I am talking about those that I have come in contact with who act in
>>-: this manner.
>>-sonia, i agree. but this is not pakistani culture but world wide. men want
>>-sow their seeds and women want commitment. an evolutionary thang ........
>>-regardless ... if a guy has never jogged in his life and is a virgin, shouldn't
>>-he expect the same from his partner.
Is the jogging champ of SCP looking for a virgin
to settle down ??? .
or will be satisfied with "like a virgin" thang.
>>-srk
Gailani
nusrat rizvi
On Jun 01, 1996 00:52:54 in article <Re: Are Pakistani-American Women
>: In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has
embarked
>: on a policy of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is
this idiotic
>: policy that brought dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of
higher learning.
>: Believe you me, their SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone
a scholarship at fancy
>: schools.
>
>Rizvi Sahib; this is called _aa bail mujhey maar_ (number of legs can
>be changed from four to two). Have fun...
>Az. [... chances are she will take the bait ...]
soh...@netcom.com
Saboohi Husain (hus...@alum01.its.rpi.edu) wrote:
: Some people says this is your life or you have only one life to live. Some
: people ask what is morality? Well, to me it's not really that hard question.
: In this society to justify things we twist a simple question like this.
: IMO, self control is the most important thing. You have to make few rules
: for yourself, you can't just go round and round doing what makes you happy.
: We live in a society and we have to care about the people around us. Most
: importantly if you don't have some good values to pass on to next generation
: imagine what next generation would be. If you keep up this me me selfish
: attitude then may be not today maybe not tomorrow but one day you will
: find yourself all alone.
: There is another important point we are forgetting...Those of us who left
: our country and now living in different culture, will never be excepted as
: American or whatever. We will always be PAkistani American. African American
: have been living here for centuries but still they are blacks or African
: american. If we forget where we are coming from, what is our culture,
: relegion then one day we will lose our identity. We will not be American
: and we will not be Pakistani...Who we will be? I don't know but even the
: thought of such time is scary.
: Saboohi
In other words "You got to know Where you came from in order to know
where you are going ".
--
MEHDI
On 28 May 1996, Ali Zaidi wrote:
> Sonia V Lathia <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> wrote:
> >The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
> >Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
> >"expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
> >backs and respected for NOT being virgins! And the pity of the whole
> >situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
>
> Stuff deleted....
>
> >Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
> >relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
> >committment!
> >
> >I hope everything works out for you.
> >Regards,
> >Sonia
> >
>
> You are correct. Pakistani guys are almost all pigs, or atleast the ones
> I have had the pleasure of knowing here in the States as well as in
> Karachi.
> Most of us have only one thing on our minds and that is SEX. And those
> of us who do like/want to have a relationship, consider sex as an
> integral part of it.
> There is nothing wrong with two people who like each other and feel
> close/comfortable enough to have sex. But this rule should be applicable
> to everyone and not just us males...
> regards,
> Ali
>
Mr. Ali,
I am sorry, but I think it is not justice to conclude with such a
statememnt regarding Pakistani male community and to utmost surprise you
mentioned only Karachi and not the entire Pakistani, which indicates that
you have also some problems with karachi as well. To my understanding,
good and bad people exist in each community, social environment, country,
sect, religion or whatever grouping you can think of. I have seen
very nice Punjabis, Sindhis, Baluchs, Pathans and Mohajirs, and on
the other hand I have seen worst possible humans in Punjabis,
Sindhis, Baluchs, Pathans and Mohajirs. REthinking with a
cool mind may cause you to change your statement.
As far as this problem
regarding the american lady (with Pakistani background) is considered,
since she has spend her entire life in America, it will be very difficult
for her to adjust with the Pakistani culture and with husband who even
before the marriage thinks of her as "whore". The best solution of this
girl along with all such "desi" girls is to look for good educated
Pakistani males in America who are either working, or doing business or
even students, and in this way they can satisfy to some extent their
parents and can protect their ancestral culture to some extent. They can
also protect their religion as well.
Mr. Ali, I hope there is no hard feeling. But i think you understand my
viewpoint, which I believe make sence.
Syed Yawar Mehdi> >
Naeem Siddiqi
Maina boli:
>Rafay Khan wrote:
>>
>> ms. maina saggers, what is the probelm with you dartmutt people. always making wild
>> accussations. i have never baited you ... let alone flame-bait you.
>Quite true, you never did manage to bait me. Though you did cast the line a couple of times.
>Admit it, you ruffian you, the hunkmania pix were your fat (or fit?) worm.
++ thats telling him, bulbul. ppl like rafay only understand that kind
of language and you just can't give then any 'Dheel' at all.
** Naeem Siddiqi **
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <31B068...@dartmouth.edu>,
Maina Saggers <ma...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>next time? sorry kid, next time hit on somebody your own size.
This is too much, Rafay assaults no one. And are you saying you are
smaller than Rafay?
Ahmer
AYAZ SOMJEE
nusrat rizvi (rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com) wrote:
... deleted ...
: >: Believe you me, their SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone
: a scholarship at fancy
: >: schools.
: >
: >Rizvi Sahib; this is called _aa bail mujhey maar_ (number of legs can
: >be changed from four to two). Have fun...
: >Az. [... chances are she will take the bait ...]
:
: I take it Master Ayaz, that you agree with my position.
The _bail_ in question attacks only when [s]he has _no answer_.
Az.
Jamal Sadick
a...@priceles.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> On Sun, 26 May 1996 01:56:47 GMT, Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) wrote:
>
> >
> >Hi Everyone,
> >
> >I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
> >and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
> >conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
> >men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
> >not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
> >more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
> >a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
> >the things have changed.
> >
> >Sleepless in NewYork
> Well unfortunatley it is true that many guys back home think the way you
have described, however there are many exceptions. I myself am half
Pakistani half swiss and had the great chance to grow up both in europe
and Pakistan. I guess in trying to bring you up in the Pakistani
tradition or sense, is a way your parents deal with their identity
problem and makes them feel closer to home. While attending a American
high school in Karachi (KAS) many of my pakistani female classmates had
the similar problem that you describe. unfortunatly that is a sideeffect
of being from two cultures. But nevertheless pakistani women such as you
are probably not considered the way you think. I have been back in
Karachi 3 times already this spring and my sister who dates a pakistani
(spare me the sister remarks guys!!!!) lives there since 1990. things
have changed as they do everywhere, and yes there are plenty of nice guys
with a blend of eastern and western mentality. Best thing to do is to go
there for awhile but remember that it really should be your decision as
to who you should marry. Send me an email if you need to talk or need
advice.
Jamal
PS ignore that chute called a...@prieles.demon.uk
Saad Khan
In article <31acea5a...@news.demon.co.uk>, a...@priceles.demon.co.uk writes:
>On Sun, 26 May 1996 01:56:47 GMT, Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>
>>I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
>>and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
>>conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
>>men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
>>not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
>>more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
>>a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
>>the things have changed.
>>
>>Sleepless in NewYork
>
>
>kick the fucking bastard and marry a real man, not a KHUSRA from the
>states.
Wow with a response like that, It's a wonder why Pakistani women and women from all over the world are running to marry Pakistani men. Damn, If I knew that this type of language would attract women to me , I would use it all the time. Nice image you give off about Pakistani men. If Buttmunch's like you are real men....I rather not be called a real man. BTW what is your definition of a real man?In article <31acea5a...@news.demon.co.uk>, a...@priceles.demon.co.uk writes:
>On Sun, 26 May 1996 01:56:47 GMT, Rk...@columbia.edu (Rkhan) wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>
>>I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to school
>>and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
>>conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I had
>>men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I do
>>not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating for
>>more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that if
>>a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true or
>>the things have changed.
>>
>>Sleepless in NewYork
>
>
Rick
On 30 May 1996 15:29:59 GMT, hus...@alum01.its.rpi.edu (Saboohi Husain) wrote:
Sonia V Lathia <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> wrote:
> The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
> Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
> "expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
> backs and respected for NOT being virgins! And the pity of the whole
> situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
> game...black, white, asian...but when it comes time for them to get
> married they want an innocent shy girl who knows nothing about sex other
> than what they are taught by their husbands.
> Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
> relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
> committment!
I don't know about India but I am pretty much sure you are generalizing
when it comes to Pakistan. Noone, either a man or a woman, is applause
for this kind of moral deficiency. May be there will be some people in some
social circle (Who have forgotten their relegion and culture on there
way to getting rich) who are proud of such behavior but the big part of
Pakistani society is not like that.
Some people says this is your life or you have only one life to live. Some
saleena begum saleem
Maina Saggers (ma...@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: nusrat rizvi wrote:
: >
: > In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has embarked
: > on a policy
: > of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this idiotic
: > policy that brought
: > dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning.
: > SAT score would never allow them US visa let alone a scholarship at fancy
: > schools.
: You're foaming at the mouth darling. Get a grip.
I think U shd get a grip!! I have just spent some time reading all the
previous posts n am wondering where I was when u hit SCP....Goodness, and ppl
here call *me* frivolous......
But this is besides the pt.....This is abt Mr Rizvi n what I see is that most
here give him a raw deal. Yes, I will NEVER agree with Mr Rizvi on his view on
Islam but as to whether that constitutes not giving him respect as a person, I
will state opnely...NOT. For his views, many of them political, I tend to
agree with. Mabye the truth is what most of u can't stomach, n that's why u
give him such a hard time.........The key word is tolerance n as far as I can
see, not many here have this attribute.
And as for u maina, better stay off from too much bird seeds.......
sal.
Omar Alavi
Is this what you call 2 cats fighting, in jive ofcourse, eh Zafar Akbar?
Omar
>sal.
J0E9O
The answer to your question, on whether Pakistani men's
attitude on dating girls who like sex and marrying virgins, has changed
any, no it hasn't.
Although there will always be a few amongst us men who
beleive other wise, the majority will still hold onto this attitude.
In all honestly deep in your heart, you wish that your son
and especially your daughter avoid the temptations of sex, in the west
that is the best you can hope for, but back in Pakistan you can take it a
step further with enforcing restiction on your children, it may or may not
stop them, but atleast you are satisfied in your own ignorance.
That which you don't know want hurt you.
I went against my parents wishes and restrictions and
managed to enjoy the pleasure of sex before marriage, although i have
vowed that now being a parent myself i must make sure my children dont end
up doing what i always wanted to do.
Some people call this hypocracy, i look at it a different
way i call becoming wise to the ways of the world.
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <4p9q85$r...@news.bu.edu>,
saleena begum saleem <fox...@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>And as for u maina, better stay off from too much bird seeds.......
Maina, I have some left over eagle feed. Can I send it to you?
Ahmer
nusrat rizvi
On Jun 07, 1996 17:52:05 in article <SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
'fox...@bu.edu (saleena begum saleem)' wrote:
>Maina Saggers (ma...@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
>: nusrat rizvi wrote:
>: >
>: > In the last few years Dartmouth unlike most other Ivy leaguers has
: >embarked on a policy
>: > of paying back to miniority for years of mistreatment. It is this
idiotic policy that brought
>: > dimwits like Saggar and Omar to these institution of higher learning.
>: > Believe you me, their SAT score would never allow them US visa let
alone a scholarship at fancy
>: > schools.
>
>: You're foaming at the mouth darling. Get a grip.
say more.&&&&
>I think U shd get a grip!! I have just spent some time reading all the
>previous posts n am wondering where I was when u hit SCP....Goodness, and
ppl
>here call *me* frivolous......
>
>But this is besides the pt.....This is abt Mr Rizvi n what I see is that
most
>here give him a raw deal. Yes, I will NEVER agree with Mr Rizvi on his
view on
>Islam but as to whether that constitutes not giving him respect as a
person, I
>will state opnely...NOT. For his views, many of them political, I tend to
>agree with. Mabye the truth is what most of u can't stomach, n that's why
u
>give him such a hard time.........The key word is tolerance n as far as I
can
>see, not many here have this attribute.
fondys, whose
collective end has as of recent become my one and only goal in life. I
regret to see that you
find my position on Islam unacceptable. I thought I had offered ample prove
that your prophet
was the biggest women hater in the history of mankind. I even offered
reward for one to offer
or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people who
live there. It burns
me up when I see kids from rich family try to defend the philosophy behind
the creation and
existence of this garbage nation which has now become a paradise for few
and living hell
for most.
>sal.
marcy
On 26 May 1996 21:21:12 GMT, phe...@athena.mit.edu (Bilal A. Bhutta) wrote:
In article <31a7b8d5...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>, Rk...@columbia.edu
(Rkhan) writes:
|>
|> Hi Everyone,
|>
|> I am a Pakistani women born and raised in America. I grew up here went to
school
|> and have the same experiences as any other American woman do. My family is a
|> conservative Family who try to raise me like a pure girl. But the fact is I
had
|> men in my life. They want me to gey married to a Pakistani dude back home. I
do
|> not know what to do now. My current boy friend is an American. We are dating
for
|> more than 2 years. I like him. All Pakistani men I knew in my life think that
if
|> a women is not virgin she is a whore. I need your adice now. Is it still true
or
|> the things have changed.
|>
|> Sleepless in NewYork
Dear Sleepless in New York,
Though I can't say that experience with women goes beyond simple social
contact, what you are asking are more ethical questions than simple social
concerns. Obviously you parents wanted you to have convervative ethics, which
by your admission you don't. Nothing wrong with that since mankind after all
has been endowed with free will.
As for your question on whore, depends on your concept of who a whore is. If
you think its a whore is one who only takes money in return for her service,
then the definition doesn't apply to you. But if a whore renders her services
for favours (gifts, dinners, movies etc.) is the title still jusified? What I
describe here is basically the dating scene prevelent in the Western World. So
take your pick. Obviously you have choosen your path based on what you think,
so why not choose the title dependent on what you think. Also, you'll be
surprised to know that many prostitutes out there don't think of themselves
as prostitutes, but rather 'self employed.' This suits their conscience fine.
Also, since you have not heeded your parent's advice and teaching so far,
why the sudden change of heart in considering their wishes? All these questions
are deceptly way deeper then one might thing. Also think of what the Pakistani
dude would think of (and do) if he were to know of your past. I'm not implying
that you don't have the capacity to change, but it won't be a trivial change.
Again it comes down on what ethincs (if any) you believe in. Sin is obviously
much harder to give up once you know pleasures of it, but doable nonetheless.
If you don't decide to or won't change your opionions than what difference does
it make if you ignore your parent's on yet another thing. Conscience is all
good and fine but it should NOT be used as a excuse to excercise selective
morality, i.e. 'yes I can sleep around and its okey' and 'oh I can't disobey my
parents, that would be bad.'
One thing that does go against you if you decide to marry you current boy
friend (assuming that he is non-muslim) is that if you do, in all probability
your family will cut off all relations with you seeing that your family is
conservative. Are you willing to pay such a heavy price for your freedom and
for your future family? It wasn't a fool who said that the rights of the many
outweigh the rights of the few. You are not just making the decision for
yourself
but also for your future offsprings. Hopefully that'll sober you up.
The "me me" culture has apparently brought down to Western civilization's
structure by ripping apart the very social fabric and the family unit. You
either believe in it or don't. If you do, then I would suggest that you do
regard your current practices as prostitute like; if you don't then more power
to you. I just hope that you'll be able to sleep during night knowing that your
(future) daughter might one day follow her mother's foot steps.
Just my two cents worth. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Bilal A. Bhutta
---
phe...@athena.mit.edu
Samee Zafar
after many months and he is still there talking exactly the same things.
Sick minds are even more sick when they are stagnated!
Sonia V Lathia
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Rick wrote:
> On 30 May 1996 15:29:59 GMT, hus...@alum01.its.rpi.edu (Saboohi Husain) wrote:
>
> I don't know about India but I am pretty much sure you are generalizing
> when it comes to Pakistan. Noone, either a man or a woman, is applause
> for this kind of moral deficiency. May be there will be some people in some
> social circle (Who have forgotten their relegion and culture on there
> way to getting rich) who are proud of such behavior but the big part of
> Pakistani society is not like that.
>>>>>Some of what you say is true...women in our society are NOT
applauded for promiscuity...but on the other hand, I know many Indian and
Pakistani guys here, and hearing these people talk would give anyone the
impression that they have some sort of point to prove by sleeping with as
many women as they can...and they will use any means available including
lying to the girls and getting them drunk.
The "funny" thing is that most of these guys are not brought up in
America...do they seem to think that their actions here will make up for
time lost in their native countries??? I don't know. The one thing that I
do know is that promiscuity is rampant among the Indo/Pakistani community
where I am.
I am not biased against these guys...they would not be having sex if
there was not someone for them to have sex with, and this is where the
problem with Indo/Pakistani women arises. The sad thing here is that they
WANT to have sex, but they delude themselves into thinking that the
person they are having sex with will then marry them, which is hardly
ever the case. They don't seem to learn from others' experiences,
thinking that "the guy I'm going out with is 'different' from the
others". No doubt there are those guys who are different, but they are
not in an abundant a quantity as the women seem to think.
No one group is at fault here, but the attitudes and expectations of both
groups are in conflict with each other.
My pop analysis of this situation has come to an end:-)
Regards,
Sonia
Gailani
Ri...@Interacess.com (Rick) wrote:
>>-On 30 May 1996 15:29:59 GMT, hus...@alum01.its.rpi.edu (Saboohi Husain) wrote:
>>-Sonia V Lathia <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> wrote:
>>-> The dilemma that you face is one that is universal within the
>>-> Indo/Pakistani culture. The shame of it all is that though girls are
>>-> "expected" to be virgins, guys for the most part are patted on their
>>-> backs and respected for NOT being virgins!
@@@ Sonia Sahiba, I have problem accepting that
as we perents expect same from our boys as from
girls. Believe it , girls being raised in this
culrure are very vocal to claim their rights, like
why can't i sleep over at my friend 's house if he
can(brother), or why can't i go on a field trip if
he can. So we as parents are also adjusting to the
new cultural parity and try to judge them with
same stick although stick keeps bending with local
cultural climate every day.
>> And the pity of the whole
>>-> situation is that while these guys are single, they think anyone is fair
>>-> game...black, white, asian...but when it comes time for them to get
>>-> married they want an innocent shy girl who knows nothing about sex other
>>-> than what they are taught by their husbands.
>>-> Don't even ask whether you are a whore or not...having a 2 year
>>-> relationship does NOT define whore to anyone that I know...it describes
>>-> committment!
>>-I don't know about India but I am pretty much sure you are generalizing
>>-when it comes to Pakistan. Noone, either a man or a woman, is applause
>>-for this kind of moral deficiency. May be there will be some people in some
>>-social circle (Who have forgotten their relegion and culture on there
>>-way to getting rich) who are proud of such behavior but the big part of
>>-Pakistani society is not like that.
agreed
>>-Some people says this is your life or you have only one life to live. Some
>>-people ask what is morality? Well, to me it's not really that hard question.
>>-In this society to justify things we twist a simple question like this.
>>-IMO, self control is the most important thing. You have to make few rules
>>-for yourself, you can't just go round and round doing what makes you happy.
>>-We live in a society and we have to care about the people around us.
True but without compromising our values and
without over stepping or objecting to theirs.
freedom means to select our own tracks without
destroying any ones.
>>Most
>>-importantly if you don't have some good values to pass on to next generation
>>-imagine what next generation would be. If you keep up this me me selfish
>>-attitude then may be not today maybe not tomorrow but one day you will
>>-find yourself all alone.
>>-There is another important point we are forgetting...Those of us who left
>>-our country and now living in different culture,
will never be excepted as -American or whatever.
We will always be PAkistani American. African
American
>>-have been living here for centuries but still they are blacks or African
>>-american. If we forget where we are coming from, what is our culture,
>>-relegion then one day we will lose our identity. We will not be American
>>-and we will not be Pakistani...Who we will be? I don't know but even the
>>-thought of such time is scary.
@@@ irony is slowly dominent culture, values
seeps in,creeps in specially when we are already
weak in these areas and are very flexible in
adopting western values(specially bad ones). Evils
like Jahaiz, cast and family system are now an
integral part of our culture(where did we get
it???) wasn't it a dominent culture ???
>>-Saboohi
Gailani
e0fk...@erin.utoronto.ca (KARIMUDDIN AHMER
AZHAR) wrote:
>>-In article <4p9q85$r...@news.bu.edu>,
>>-saleena begum saleem <fox...@bu.edu> wrote:
>>->
>>->And as for u maina, better stay off from too much bird seeds.......
>>-Maina, I have some left over eagle feed. Can I send it to you?
>>-Ahmer
Ahmer tried eagle seeds but you know "salaa pait
khraab ho giaa" . How come parrot can eat what
eagles do. GERBER FOOD for the time being.
Gailani
( never ever think I don't love you, kiddo)
Zafar Ansari
Rick wrote:
> I don't know about India but I am pretty much sure you are generalizing
Hi Rick
ZAA
Dapper Chap
> >sal.
Nusrat, did anyone ever tell you that you have a ONE TRACK mind?
Nusrat Rizvi
In <31BA75...@dial.pipex.com> Samee Zafar <ad...@dial.pipex.com>
writes:
I regret to see that you
>> find my position on Islam unacceptable. I thought I had offered
ample prove that your prophet was the biggest women hater in the
history of mankind. I even offered reward for one to offer
>> or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
>> Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people
>>who live there. It burns me up when I see kids from rich family try
to >>defend the philosophy behind the creation and
>> existence of this garbage nation which has now become a paradise for
>>few and living hell for most.
Nusrat Rizvi
What a pathetic life this man Rizvi leads. I have visited this forum
>after many months and he is still there talking exactly the same
things. Sick minds are even more sick when they are stagnated!
My life style is nothing short of a dream for you worthless paindoo
pigs. Your months long absence no doubt spent looking for your real
father was not missed by many and is not likely to, if the above post
is a reflection of your future input.
Nusrat Rizvi
Defender of the meek, attacker of the pompous.
Gailani
j0...@aol.com (J0E9O) wrote:
Some stuff deleted
>>- That which you don't know want hurt you.
>>- I went against my parents wishes and restrictions
and managed to enjoy the pleasure of sex before
marriage, although i have
>>-vowed that now being a parent myself i must make sure
my children dont end up doing what i always wanted
to do.
>>- Some people call this hypocracy, i look at it a different
>>-way i call becoming wise to the ways of the world.
@@@ A lot of people like you when came to States
at a young and tender age did that but now are
very srtict and adamant about their kids doing
that. I don't know what should we call it if not
"Hypocrisy". But for kids how it is turning out
as they are western in their day to day dealings
with a different religious and cultural touch. I
know one thing though, this sure is keeping them
away from local social ills which even in Pakistan
are spreading like a disease in the race to becom
westernized.
Gailani
nusrat rizvi
On Jun 09, 1996 14:00:29 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
'Dapper Chap <mpar...@gmi.edu>' wrote:
>>or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
>> Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people who
>> live there. It burns me up when I see kids from rich family try to
defend the philosophy behind
>> the creation and existence of this garbage nation which has now become
a paradise for few
>> and living hell for most.
>>
>Nusrat, did anyone ever tell you that you have a ONE TRACK mind?
Yes only idiots like you.
nusrat rizvi
rowayton, conn
defender of the meek, attacker of the pompous
Ameer Hassan - MME
In article <4pa8uq$g...@news.aimnet.com>, oal...@frost.com (Omar Alavi) writes:
|> fox...@bu.edu (saleena begum saleem) wrote:
|> >Maina Saggers (ma...@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
|> >: nusrat rizvi wrote:
|> >: >
|> >
|> >I think U shd get a grip!! I have just spent some time reading all the
|> >previous posts n am wondering where I was when u hit SCP....Goodness, and ppl
|> >here call *me* frivolous......
|> >
|> >But this is besides the pt.....This is abt Mr Rizvi n what I see is that most
|> >here give him a raw deal. Yes, I will NEVER agree with Mr Rizvi on his view on
|> >Islam but as to whether that constitutes not giving him respect as a person, I
|>
|>
|>
|> Omar
|>
|> >sal.
|>
No this is called birds of same flock.
saleena begum saleem
nusrat rizvi (rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com) wrote:
: >
: >: You're foaming at the mouth darling. Get a grip.
:
: &&&& This is the kind of inapt one liners paindoos are renowned for, need I
: say more.&&&&
that is the kind of retort *she* is capable of....i wouldn't go as far as to
caterogise everyone based on their ethinicity.
:
: Only persons who give me what you call a raw deal are the brainless paindoo
: fondys, whose
: collective end has as of recent become my one and only goal in life. I
: regret to see that you
: find my position on Islam unacceptable. I thought I had offered ample prove
: that your prophet
: was the biggest women hater in the history of mankind. I even offered
: reward for one to offer
My faith in Allah remains unshaken even when faced with the hypocrisy of
Islam's fellowers. Our Prophet was as far perfect a human man can get n yes, I
maintain that I do not subscribe to your beliefs on Islam.
: or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
For some the light never appears....no point in debating when the other party
has already formed an unshakable view. In all things, one shd have an open
mind. As far as your discussions on Islam go, I find that u do not concede, n
only harp on the same issues on Prophet Muhammad n his wife Aisha....child
molester etc. When I was new here, I used to retort to your posts on Islam, I
no longer do that.....
U r already closed on this issue, do u blame many for not even trying to
enter in debates on Islam......
As for me, I am willing to concede that there r things in Islam that I cannot
agree with, that I keep at the back of my mind, till at a time when I se fit.
But I also realsie that answers r there, we all know them, but when will we
accpet them.......
: Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people who
: live there. It burns
: me up when I see kids from rich family try to defend the philosophy behind
: the creation and
: existence of this garbage nation which has now become a paradise for few
: and living hell
: for most.
isn't it time to stop the defensive front......
: >sal.
:
: nusrat rizvi
Dapper Chap
On 9 Jun 1996, nusrat rizvi wrote:
> On Jun 09, 1996 14:00:29 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
> 'Dapper Chap <mpar...@gmi.edu>' wrote:
>
>
> >>or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
> >> Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people who
>
> >> live there. It burns me up when I see kids from rich family try to
> defend the philosophy behind
> >> the creation and existence of this garbage nation which has now become
> a paradise for few
> >> and living hell for most.
> >>
> >Nusrat, did anyone ever tell you that you have a ONE TRACK mind?
>
> Yes only idiots like you.
Mr. Paindoo Hater, I must let you sit and rot in your pit of sh**!
You'll be ignored in the future.
>
> nusrat rizvi
> rowayton, conn
> defender of the meek, attacker of the pompous
>
>
Hanif
**** The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to
prepare to win. -Robert M. Knight-
Nusrat Rizvi
On Jun 10, 1996 01:33:27 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
'Dapper Chap <mpar...@gmi.edu>' wrote:
>On 9 Jun 1996, nusrat rizvi wrote:
>
>> On Jun 09, 1996 14:00:29 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
>> 'Dapper Chap <mpar...@gmi.edu>' wrote:
>>
>>
>> >>or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
>> >> Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people
who
>> >> live there. It burns me up when I see kids from rich family try to
>> defend the philosophy behind the creation and existence of this
garbage nation which has now >> >>become a paradise for few and living
hell for most.
>> >>
>> >Nusrat, did anyone ever tell you that you have a ONE TRACK mind?
>>
>> Yes only idiots like you.
>
>Mr. Paindoo Hater, I must let you sit and rot in your pit of sh**!
>You'll be ignored in the future.
>
Lets see how popular the paindoos really are. I have never met a Bengali
who has
anything nice to say about you pigs. The number of Paindoo haters amongst
the
Mohajirs is growing by leaps and bounds. This also hold true of Sindhis and
Pathans.
Of-course none of you morons would ever sit down and discuss why you guys
are so
universally despised. Who knows my presence on scp may at least serve the
purpose
of you idiots opening your eyes to this simple reality of life. Are you
likely to undertake
measures to correct the situation, I seriously doubt it.
Nusrat Rizvi
Rowayton, Conn
Asim Siddiqi
Nusrat Rizvi (rizv...@nyc.pipeline.com) writes:
> On Jun 10, 1996 01:33:27 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
> 'Dapper Chap <mpar...@gmi.edu>' wrote:
>
>>On 9 Jun 1996, nusrat rizvi wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 09, 1996 14:00:29 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
>>> 'Dapper Chap <mpar...@gmi.edu>' wrote:
>>>
>>
>
>>Mr. Paindoo Hater, I must let you sit and rot in your pit of sh**!
>>You'll be ignored in the future.
>>
>>Hanif
>
> Lets see how popular the paindoos really are. I have never met a Bengali
> who has
> anything nice to say about you
Bengalis don't have anything nice to say about Urdu speaking people
either. Infact the first language riots (in 1948) happened because
Bengalis didn't want to accept Urdu as the official language.
Nusrat Rizvi
On Jun 10, 1996 21:20:11 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
'cm...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Asim Siddiqi)' wrote:
>> Lets see how popular the paindoos really are. I have never met a Bengali
>> who has
>> anything nice to say about you
>
>Bengalis don't have anything nice to say about Urdu speaking people
>either. Infact the first language riots (in 1948) happened because
>Bengalis didn't want to accept Urdu as the official language.
>
This is not exactly true, the Bengali hatrid was reserved for Punjabis and
Bengalis
soon realised that the Mohajirs were playing along with Punjabis who were
in a hurry
to take all that they could back to the paindooland. Most Mohajirs/Beharis
were given
the option to become Bengladeshi citizens an offer they have foolishly
spurrned todate.
Maurice Uddel
you can't quit can you....................I have never seen a bigger
loser than you Rizvi.....get a life.........how is my Yasmeen darling
doing if she is still around..........Say Hi to her
Nusrat Rizvi
On Jun 12, 1996 04:00:44 in article <Re: SCP's Prob with Mr Rizvi.>,
Maurice. Now you
may well ask, how do I know this idiot is a paindoo? Well after years of
experience
in dealing with these brainless morons you notice a pattern of stupidity,
absurdity and
other activity generally associated with people of this dreaded race. In
the above idiots case
you may have notice his 3 line of posting which only served to advertise
his lack of brains.
Need I say more.
ash...@milliken-mills.markham.on.ca
RI>In <31BA75...@dial.pipex.com> Samee Zafar <ad...@dial.pipex.com>
RI>writes:
RI> I regret to see that you
RI>>> find my position on Islam unacceptable. I thought I had offered
RI>ample prove that your prophet was the biggest women hater in the
RI>history of mankind. I even offered reward for one to offer
RI>>> or otherwise challenge my position, no takers yet.
RI>>> Pakistan and its ideology have taken a grotesque turn for the people
RI>>>who live there. It burns me up when I see kids from rich family try
RI>to >>defend the philosophy behind the creation and
RI>>> existence of this garbage nation which has now become a paradise for
RI>>>few and living hell for most.
RI>Nusrat Rizvi
RI>What a pathetic life this man Rizvi leads. I have visited this forum
RI>>after many months and he is still there talking exactly the same
RI>things. Sick minds are even more sick when they are stagnated!
RI>My life style is nothing short of a dream for you worthless paindoo
RI>pigs. Your months long absence no doubt spent looking for your real
RI>father was not missed by many and is not likely to, if the above post
RI>is a reflection of your future input.
RI>Nusrat Rizvi
RI>Defender of the meek, attacker of the pompous.
Rizvi, anyone who has half a brain could use the dirty language,
political jargon and disgusting half-witted and exxagerated sarcasm you
exhibit on this forum. Please, keep your idiotic theories to yourself.
You are not converting any Muslims to Hinduism or Sikkhism...obviously,
YOUR existence as whatever you claim to be doesn't bother us, but the
existence of Muslims bothers you!! I have news for you: THOUSANDS of
people a day convert to ISLAM, thousands of us LOVE OUR PROPHET
MUHAMMED,(P.B.U.H.). No matter what you will say, WE WILL ALWAYS LOVE
HIM, and every time you bad mouth him, AS A FEMALE, MY RESOLVE TO LOVE
HIM GROWS EVEN MORE!!
SOOOOOO, you're dirty language, obscene ideology and grossly exxagerated
veiws don't hurt us one bit, although they may help you adddress your
anger.
Not all of us have to use disgusting language and downright rudeness to
get our point across...we don't have to be anti-hindu or anti-sikh
either.
Your badmouthing just made me want to laugh and thank- ALLAH that I was
born a decent minded individual...and that I was a Muslim!! Thank-you!
Ishfaq Ahmed
> Some stuff deleted
> Gailani
Instead of "hypocracy" I would like to say "double standard" a typical of
middle-class attitude. And this is not only you, the baby-boomers, the
first of the middle-class, in 60s started this movement and now they don't
like their kids (the generation X) to behave the same way as they did when
they were young and horney. What would you think about Imran Khan who
preaches against westernization and marries a western girl?
Ishfaq
Ishfaq Ahmed
Sonia V Lathia (gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU) wrote:
> I am not biased against these guys...they would not be having sex if
> there was not someone for them to have sex with, and this is where the
> problem with Indo/Pakistani women arises. The sad thing here is that they
> WANT to have sex, but they delude themselves into thinking that the
> person they are having sex with will then marry them, which is hardly
> ever the case. They don't seem to learn from others' experiences,
> Sonia
Having sex with is a coplicated phenomenon. The delusion of thinking
marriage for trading sex is only one part of the whole complexity. And it
is not only Indian or Pakistani or Western ( so to speak) problem, it is a
middle class attitude. It will go everywhere in the world wherever the
middle-class culture (wrongly known as western culture) goes.
Ishfaq
Samir Munir
>Having sex with is a coplicated phenomenon. The delusion of thinking
>marriage for trading sex is only one part of the whole complexity. And it
>is not only Indian or Pakistani or Western ( so to speak) problem, it is a
>middle class attitude.
hmmmm. I don't agrre with you in that. You may say, that the
phenomenon is primarily in the middle class.
But, Isn't it the parents responsibilty to raise their children with
islamic values ?????? or at least learn them to differ between right
and wrong.
Regards / Med Venlig Hilsen
Samir Munir (Stud.Med)
Denmark
Sa...@post1.tele.dk
P.S: Please, also reply by personal E-mail.
Ishfaq Ahmed
Rafay Khan (ra...@altair.com) wrote:
> Interesting view point. Societies have struggled over the year s to create
> a large middle class and do away with poverty. Is a large middle class
> detrimental to the development of a society as is the case in america?
> sahibzada rafay khan
Poverty is the product of class. No class no poverty. Middle class is a
transitinal phase and societies do not try to create middle class.
Actually middle class is the result of industrial revolution.
Industrialists want a broader market for their products. They
systematically created a class of people with purchasing power for their
products. Industrial age is now ending, a new era is coming. It is called
post-industrial age or information age. It would be more communitarian
type of society and middle class will be disappeared. Because there would
be no need of middle class. This age will bring a kind of culture, values,
customs and norms which we now a days consider a backward or paindu
culture.
"dhore peechhay ki taraf ay gardish-e-ayyaam tu"
Ishfaq