Artist M.F.Husain's House Ransacked
nda...@aol.com
The Asian Age
ist May, 1998
Bajrang Dal attacks Husain residence
By Mohammed Wajehuddin
Mumbai: Members of the Bajrang Dal ransacked the house of artist
M.F. Husain on Friday morning, destroying a painting and damaging
furniture. Twenty-six of them were arrested and charged with
trespass and unlawful activity; a handful managed to escape.
The activists said they were provoked by a report in the afternoon
tabloid Mid-Day mentioning a recent exhibition in New Delhi of
Husain's paintings of Hanuman and Sita, entitled Rescued Sita. It
was reported that Sita had been portrayed in the nude in the
painting.
Friday's incident occurred around 11 am when about 30 Bajrang Dal
activists from Goregaon reached Husain's residence at Cuffe Parade
and started shouting slogans against him. Witnesses said a group of
seven or eight men entered his house through the main door, which
was ajar. The slogan-shouting activists broke bulbs, tube-lights
and the glass pane of a cupboard as they reached the passage
leading into the house. They also punched holes in one blank and a
half-complete canvas. Husain was not home at the time of the
attack. The activists were holding aloft saffron flags with the
slogan Seva, Suraksha, Sanskar, Bajrang Dal, Goregaon Zilla. One
flag had Om inscribed on it. The police said property worth Rs
15,000 was destroyed.
Before the attack, Bharatiya Janata Party MLA from Malabar Hill
Mangal Prabhat Lodha sent a letter to police commissioner Ronnie
Mendonca requesting him to register a case against Husain for
drawing Hindu goddesses in the nude.
Talking to The Asian Age, Mr Lodha said that Bajrang Dal workers
had gone to Husain's house to protest against the controversial
painting. "I knew about the attack only through some reporters. I
don't know what exactly happened," he said. He accused Husain of
hurting Hindus' sentiments.
Cuffe Parade policemen said an unidentified caller, claiming to be
from Husain's household, informed them of the attack and they
rushed to the spot. As the Bajrang Dal members saw the police
coming, they tried to flee, but 26 of them were caught. The police
said no one was hurt in the incident. A posse of policemen has been
stationed outside the artist's house.
Some activists had destroyed Husain's paintings at an art gallery
in Ahmedabad last year after his paintings of goddess Saraswati in
the nude earned him the ire of the Shiv Sena. The Mumbai police had
then registered a case against him and the artist had extended a
stay in London, where he was holding an exhibition, while the
controversy had raged. The agitation calmed down only after Husain
tendered an apology.
Husain could not be contacted for comment. When asked whether the
artist's family had been shifted to another place, the police said
it had no information on the family.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <6iiibg$pql$1...@winter.news.erols.com>,
"S.L." <alo...@erols.com> wrote:
> . . . Why not send Mr. Hussain to Pakistan?
> There he can use his much valued talent painting Mohammed
> or say the Virgin Mary in the nude!
> Then lets see how much protest we get! hehe..............
I doubt if he has the courage to do so. It seems that he
intends to use art as a weapon. Perhaps he can attract
neither price nor attention to his art otherwise.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
A. Sheraz
You are right Islam is very prohibitive in nature - but does that mean
you have to act the same way ?
What sort of attitude is this : they are doing this horrible thing so we
are also entitled to do the same.
We should denounce it , be it Islamic fundamentalism or Hindu
fundamentalism. Dont try to put a sinister twist to a painting. [ "perhaps
he wants to use it as a weapon"]
When will stupid people stop breeding ?
I am just an engineering student but someday I will do something even more
outrageous than painting Mohammad in the nude. I have to become something
first though.
On Sun, 3 May 1998, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
:In article <6iiibg$pql$1...@winter.news.erols.com>,
Muna123
Hindus should not have any problem with MF Husain paintings since hindus
already have status in numarous places in India. Hindu religion allows people
to errect GODDESS in NUDE.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <Pine.HPP.3.96.980503172516.11392A-
100...@ehhpx14.ews.uiuc.edu>,
> nature . . . I am just an engineering student
> outrageous than painting Mohammad in the nude.
There is no need to lower oneself by writing
"I am just an engineering student" above. Hundreds
of millions of people would be thrilled to receive
an engineering education. Here is an elementary
problem for the engineering student to solve: A
cylindrical pressure vessel having an average radius
of 21 in. is subjected to an internal pressure of
12 psi. A longitudinal seam in this tank has rivets
spaced at 3/4 in. Calculate the shear load per rivet.
Jai Maharaj
jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Pointing out Muslim "stupidity" is
not Hindu "stupidity", it is an education.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
In article <354CF888...@vossnet.co.uk>,
"V.C.Vijayaraghavan" <vi...@vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
> You are right. Muslim stupidity is no excuse for hindu stupidity.
>
> A. Sheraz wrote:
>
> > You are right Islam is very prohibitive in nature - but does that
> > mean
> > you have to act the same way ?
> >
> > What sort of attitude is this : they are doing this horrible thing so
> > we
> > are also entitled to do the same.
> >
> > We should denounce it , be it Islamic fundamentalism or Hindu
> > fundamentalism. Dont try to put a sinister twist to a painting. [
> > "perhaps
> > he wants to use it as a weapon"]
> >
> > When will stupid people stop breeding ?
> >
> > I am just an engineering student but someday I will do something even
> > more
> > outrageous than painting Mohammad in the nude. I have to become
> > something
> > first though.
> >
slowmo
i think if you wanna degrade any other country or culture u might wanna stop
comparing your own to them unless you have no respect for you own either...
secondly try getting out more often and meet some women or something...
that shit you spew everyday here is starting to stink like you and if you
think u r a smart guy who can change things around..remember what krishna
says"he who thinks can kill and he who thinks can be killed are both
wrong..as i have defeated them all"
so go wipe your ass and cry in your moms lap.. or u might just end up having
life pass you buy while you stroke ur ego writing this nonsense
SM
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message ...
slowmo
you intend to try that on ur ass mr.maharaj?
SM
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message ...
>In article <Pine.HPP.3.96.980503172516.11392A-
> 100...@ehhpx14.ews.uiuc.edu>,
> "A. Sheraz" <assi...@ews.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> You are right Islam is very prohibitive in
>> nature . . . I am just an engineering student
>> but someday I will do something even more
>> outrageous than painting Mohammad in the nude.
>> I have to become something first though.... - A. Sheraz
>
>There is no need to lower oneself by writing
>"I am just an engineering student" above. Hundreds
>of millions of people would be thrilled to receive
>an engineering education. Here is an elementary
>problem for the engineering student to solve: A
>cylindrical pressure vessel having an average radius
>of 21 in. is subjected to an internal pressure of
>12 psi. A longitudinal seam in this tank has rivets
>spaced at 3/4 in. Calculate the shear load per rivet.
>
>Jai Maharaj
>jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
>http://www.flex.com/~jai
>Om Shanti
>
>> On Sun, 3 May 1998, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>>
>> :In article <6iiibg$pql$1...@winter.news.erols.com>,
Sridhar
A. Sheraz wrote:
>
> You are right Islam is very prohibitive in nature - but does that mean
> you have to act the same way ?
>
> What sort of attitude is this : they are doing this horrible thing so we
> are also entitled to do the same.
>
> We should denounce it , be it Islamic fundamentalism or Hindu
> fundamentalism. Dont try to put a sinister twist to a painting. [ "perhaps
> he wants to use it as a weapon"]
>
> When will stupid people stop breeding ?
>
> outrageous than painting Mohammad in the nude. I have to become something
> first though.
what the fundie does is idiotic, but make no mistake, what hussein
did is not profoundly intellectual either. i have not seen that
latest painting but from what one heard about his earlier rendering in
the nude of a hindu goddess, it was quite an eyesore. you can't put
it beyond him to have used "art as a weapon". sadly, he can, because
it hurts these fundies like billy-o. smart people would merely
shudder and move on, but not these fundies - they simply don't realize
that mcbull is frying their minds in oil colours.
V.C.Vijayaraghavan
You are right. Muslim stupidity is no excuse for hindu stupidity.
A. Sheraz wrote:
> You are right Islam is very prohibitive in nature - but does that
> mean
> you have to act the same way ?
>
> What sort of attitude is this : they are doing this horrible thing so
> we
> are also entitled to do the same.
>
> We should denounce it , be it Islamic fundamentalism or Hindu
> fundamentalism. Dont try to put a sinister twist to a painting. [
> "perhaps
> he wants to use it as a weapon"]
>
> When will stupid people stop breeding ?
>
> I am just an engineering student but someday I will do something even
> more
> outrageous than painting Mohammad in the nude. I have to become
> something
> first though.
>
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <3575717f...@news.clara.net>,
11305...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
> I wonder if he would be brave enough to paint
> the Virigin Mary nude and if the Pope and
> other Chrisitans would object :)
No, the Canvas Coward likely
would not. I am sure that the
brush jockey's initials -- M. F. --
do not stand for "Muslim Fearless".
irgun1943
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message ...
>In article <3575717f...@news.clara.net>,
> 11305...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
>> I wonder if he would be brave enough to paint
>> the Virigin Mary nude and if the Pope and
>> other Chrisitans would object :)
Dear Indians,
This is an interesting idea.
Indian temple carvings can be very graphic. If a Hindu artist paints
one of the highest Gods or goddesses in the nude, is that a problem? Or do
you fear that the Moslem artist is simply making fun of you?
irgun43
Gul Agha
There you go, you've got an idea for a controversial hit on your hand.
Call it "The First Temptation" (A 'sequel' to The Last Temptation).
As usual, the controversy will be more publicity at the box office.
--
Peace,
Gul Agha
A. Sheraz
Well said Mo- these fanatics are disappointing. Instead of respecting
artistic license and recognising freedom of expression these people are
being quite disconcerting. If I did not know better they are acting
exactly like the poor and small minded Muslims of India.
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Mo wrote:
:Sikhivahan <sig...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:>Since, in painting Sita and Saraswati - mother-figures foran overwhelming majority
:of Hindus - MF Hussain showed us that he had scant regard for Hindu
:beliefs, I can only conclude that he does not respect Hinduism.<
: I think the opposite is true. He is very respectful of Hindu
:dietes when he is interviewed. Being an artist he is accustomed to the
:nude figure and does not think it 'dirty' and if that is his way of
:showing his appreciation,then fine.
: Hindus should be proud that they have a country where
:a Muslim can do this without getting lynched. I would guess that 99%
:of Hindus deplore the Bajrang Dal and want Hussain to continue with
:his artistic paintings.
M. Ranjit Mathews
irgun1943 wrote:
> Dear Indians,
> This is an interesting idea.
> Indian temple carvings can be very graphic. If a Hindu artist paints
> one of the highest Gods or goddesses in the nude, is that a problem? Or do
> you fear that the Moslem artist is simply making fun of you ?
> irgun43
This was my analogy, asking a Canadian how Canadians would react if:
A museum in Ottowa displays an artwork of the Virgin Mary mounting God the
father,
their likenesses being modeled after the Pieta and the depiction of the
creator on the
ceiling of the Sistine chapel, respectively. Christians protesting outside
the museum
are dismissed as fundamentalists. Another museum has had a nude of Mary
Magdelene on
display for 20 years. Another crowd of protesters ask for it to be taken off
display
and when refused, charge the museum destroying this and a few other
paintings. A famous
columnist Aaron Showrie writes an article asking why the Muslim author of the
artwork
doesn't paint such a depiction of Ayesha (and Mohammed) and why far more
innocuous
works on Islamic themes are banned in Canada at the same time that depictions
egregiously offensive to some Christians are permitted.
Sikhivahan
Mo wrote:
> On Mon, 04 May 1998 11:26:24 -0500, Sikhivahan <sig...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Since, in painting Sita and Saraswati - mother-figures foran overwhelming majority
> of Hindus - MF Hussain showed
> us that he had scant regard for Hindu beliefs, I can only
> conclude that he does not respect Hinduism.<
> I think the opposite is true. He is very respectful of Hindu
> dietes when he is interviewed. Being an artist he is accustomed to the
> nude figure and does not think it 'dirty' and if that is his way of
> showing his appreciation,then fine.
Mo, I do not think the nude figure is dirty. I do not think that
nude goddesses (or non-goddesses) are a bad idea. But
Saraswati/Sita is not an appropriate model for realizing that idea.
> Hindus should be proud that they have a country where
> a Muslim can do this without getting lynched.
Aha. Therefore you agree that Hindus have a reason to beoffended!
> I would guess that 99%
> of Hindus deplore the Bajrang Dal and want Hussain to continue with
> his artistic paintings.
I hope so. But know who to blame if the reality is different.
Sikhivahan
Sikhivahan
A. Sheraz wrote:
> Well said Mo- these fanatics are disappointing. Instead of respecting
> artistic license and recognising freedom of expression these people are
> being quite disconcerting. If I did not know better they are acting
> exactly like the poor and small minded Muslims of India.
>
>
There's no fanaticism in being offended. Taking it out on the
artist is a different matter.
Sikhivahan
Saurabh Jang
irgun1943 (irg...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message ...
: >In article <3575717f...@news.clara.net>,
: > 11305...@compuserve.com (Mo) wrote:
: >> I wonder if he would be brave enough to paint
: >> the Virigin Mary nude and if the Pope and
: >> other Chrisitans would object :)
: Dear Indians,
: This is an interesting idea.
: Indian temple carvings can be very graphic. If a Hindu artist paints
: one of the highest Gods or goddesses in the nude, is that a problem? Or do
: you fear that the Moslem artist is simply making fun of you?
: irgun43
Look Irgun,
The Hebrew Bible has more than its share of scandalous sexual stories.
If an Arab artist started taking "artistic licence" and drew
all kinds of blasphemous paintings, all the while talking of the
marvellous "Jewish heritage" which every Arab shared with Jews, would the
average Jew be amused? What offends most people is the double standard
here. M.F. Hussain is taking advantage of Hindu tolerance. He apparently
has not been sufficiently motivated to paint nude Mohammeds or Ayeshas,
because he knows that he will be mince meat before his hand leaves the
canvas. The British government might save Rushdie's life, I doubt that
the Indian Government will give two hoots about Mr. Hussain's "artisitc
rights".
Further hypocrisy on Mr. Hussains part is that he has painted nude
Saraswatis and Sitas, two Goddesses who have never been depicted
in a remotely erotic fashion in Hindu scripture, sculpture or painting.
Saurabh
PERVAIZ RIZVI
goddess in nude the harami hindoo worship the penis the erect penis is
placed in the mundir in the centre
Mo
Mo
On Mon, 04 May 1998 11:26:24 -0500, Sikhivahan <sig...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Since, in painting Sita and Saraswati - mother-figures foran overwhelming majority
of Hindus - MF Hussain showed
us that he had scant regard for Hindu beliefs, I can only
conclude that he does not respect Hinduism.<
I think the opposite is true. He is very respectful of Hindu
dietes when he is interviewed. Being an artist he is accustomed to the
nude figure and does not think it 'dirty' and if that is his way of
showing his appreciation,then fine.
Mo
On Mon, 04 May 1998 15:32:30 -0600, jay19...@hotmail.com wrote:
>You misundearstnd the post.
The topic refers to the fate of non-muslim artists making painting of
islamic
saints and how Islam will deal with that.<,
Who wants an islamic state with its blapshemy laws and
killings for drawing of the Prophet or Hindu dieties
in India ? It would be in spirit be an Islamic state with a Hindu
name. So what would be the difference between Hinduism and Islam ?
If Hussain drew obscene pictures he would be prosecuted under
the obscenity laws anyway. So these nudes are tastefully done and
artistic and Hindus should stop being narrow minded and encourage him
in his profession.
I am sure he will paint Madhuri nude one of these days and I
am sure she is broadminded enough to be pleased about it.
HRUSA1
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Artist M.F.Husain's House Ransacked
>From: 11305...@compuserve.com (Mo)
>Date: Tue, May 5, 1998 02:59 EDT
>Message-id: <354fb7d...@news.clara.net>
Subj: Hindu Fundamentalist Mob Attack on Muslim Artist Condemned
Date: 98-05-05 01:20:37 EDT
From: HRUSA1
To: edi...@paknews.org
CC: ad...@erols.com, ash...@paknet2.ptc.pk
PRESS RELEASE
In a hurriedly called meeting, Chicago based human rights and cultural
organizations condemned vicious attack on a famous Muslim artist of bambay ,
India by Hindu fundamentalists. A Hindu fundamentalist mob of Bajrang Dal
instigated by Shiv Sena Chief, Bal Thackeray launched an attack to hurt Mr.
Husain and to destroy his belongings in Mumbai on May 4. Ball Thackeray,
earlier aroused sectarian feelings against the Muslim artist Mr Husain saying,
" If Husain can enter Hindustan (India), why can't we enter his house".
The Chicago meeting of human right activists appreciated the fact that a large
number of Indian thinkers , artists, poets from all walks of life have strongly
denounced the cowardly attack on Mr M.F Husain, famous Bombay painter.
The meeting demanded Indian Government to safeguard the lives and honor of all
citizens irrespective of their religious affiliations, to punish the
perpetrators of crimes against innocent citizens and to provide adequate
compensation to the victims of sectarian violence.
Participating organizations included:
Pakistan Human Rights Watch, Chicago
Reform Movement
Pakistani American Forum
World Council of Pakistani Associations
Alghazali Islamic Research Association
Aligarh Alumnai Association
Asian Arts Foundation
Issued by:
Mutahir Kazmi
Illinois Director Reform Movement
nda...@aol.com
Times Of India Editorial
Tuesday 5 May 1998
Leave the Gods to Defend Themselves
By JYOTIRMAYA SHARMA
IN the past, galleries and museums exhibiting the work of M F Husain
have been vandalised, and the life of the artist threatened by zealots
of the VHP and the Bajrang Dal. Last week activists of the Bajrang Dal
invaded Husain's private space by entering his Mumbai residence and
vandalising it. These incidents bring to the fore questions of
secularism, religious fundamentalism, artistic freedom and aesthetic
judgment. Behind the clash of contesting ideologies and the increasing
fragility of the liberal space in Indian society lies the fact that the
Indian state has abdicated its responsibility to protect the life and
liberties of its citizens.
Liberalism promises certain freedoms such as free speech, freedom of
expression, a space for civilised dissent, avoidance of cruelty, and
promotion of a modicum of decency. Democracy, on the other hand,
provides for representation. The demands made on the state for
representation take the form of the very stuff politics is all about,
namely, quest for power, deal-making, and horse-trading. What often
resolves the tension between liberal freedoms and the practice of
democracy is a strict adherence to the rule of law.
Sheer Apathy
Some may argue that the state can use the rule of law to promote ends
that are neither liberal nor democratic. This, of course, may be true.
But why does this situation arise? This is because large areas of public
and private life have come under the jurisdiction of the state,
sometimes due to historical factors, sometimes by default, and at other
times due to sheer apathy on the part of citizens. Nowhere is this trend
as glaringly evident as in India. Therefore, to recognise the importance
of the rule of law is to recognise the crucial role of forms in liberal
democracies. Forms serve as a barrier between the weak and the strong,
the government and the governed.
Not many on the extreme fringes of the sangh parivar will understand or
sympathise with this argument. Any talk of forms upsets their short-term
agendas. There is, however, an equally compelling religious argument
that merits consideration. By appointing themselves as the guardians and
protectors of the gods, they have usurped the role that was once the
sole prerogative of the gods. It is one thing to give the gods an
anthropomorphic dimension; it is another for man to try and play god. By
taking matters into their own hands and trying to ``redeem'' the
allegedly sullied honour of Sita, are the Bajrang Dal activists
suggesting that the gods can no longer look after themselves?
Popular tradition tells us that the gods had mysterious ways in which
they rectified any slight to their honour or their power. The most
obvious way in which humans read the signs of divine displeasure was the
wrath of nature, never human nature. Dreams, revelations and voices were
an equally adequate way of discerning the will of the gods. Swami
Vivekananda's vision in which Ksheera Bhavani reprimands him for being
so presumptuous as to worry about her shrine being destroyed belongs to
this tradition.
Indian Mysticism
The actions of the Bajrang Dal in Mumbai have little to do with religion
in the true sense, and even less with spirituality. A very important
component of Indian spirituality is mysticism. When an individual has a
mystical experience, he is in direct communion with a force that is
perceptible only to himself. A mystical experience may transform that
individual's life, but the content of this experience cannot be
communicated to anyone else. Hence, true spirituality can breed fierce
individualism, even misanthropy, but can never become the foundation for
a mob indulging in violence and vandalism. The events in Mumbai last
week, and on several occasions in the past, represent street politics at
its lowest. Above all, they are a mockery of religion by those who have
no adhikara, either to be citizens of a modern state, or followers of a
faith.
© Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd. 1997.
Mo
On 04 May 1998 00:42:20 GMT, mun...@aol.com (Muna123) wrote:
>
Hindus are ashamed of the acts of Hindu terrorists and they are trying
toredirect the subject to somewhere else, where else communal
comments.<
Interestingly Hindu artists have uniformly come out in favour
of Hussain ( asianage.com May 5) while the Muslim Tahir Mahmmod
-chairman of the Minorities group has said that 'art should not hurt
religious sentiment'.
This is the big danger. The whole point of escaping from the
clutches of the Mullahs is to highlight the inconsistencies of
religion and try and 'hurt the wrong beliefs' and if Hindus make a law
against that , then they will be the victims of it when Muslims take
over India due to their very high birth rate.
If Hussain has breached obscenity laws then the govt will
prosecute him anyway but a few nudes will not harm Hinduism..
Hari Tadepalli
nda...@aol.com wrote in message <6im7il$vp5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>The actions of the Bajrang Dal in Mumbai have little to do with religion
>in the true sense, and even less with spirituality. A very important
>component of Indian spirituality is mysticism. When an individual has a
>mystical experience, he is in direct communion with a force that is
>perceptible only to himself. A mystical experience may transform that
>individual's life, but the content of this experience cannot be
>communicated to anyone else.
Hmm..., very interesting that Indian mysticism has chosen to reveal
itself through the eyes of a person with no better credentials than some
one who touted Indira Gandhi as "The Durga" or a tinsel goddess as
the most revered art form or one who makes 6 figure rumenerations
from the alchoholic clubs in the big cities, ...
Just for the info' of this Sharma or whoever: the true mystic does not
care to even let his existence be known to others. He is right though
on the civil rights of MFH.
T. Hari Krishna
ramk...@imap3.asu.edu
I wonder about the intentions behind such questions...
The sculptures of the deities in the temples can be viewed as nude art but
are usually covered/adorned with clothes/ornaments. The erotic sculpture
on the walls of temple walls is something else. While a lot of people ask such
silly questions(it is ok to provoke)... they don't seem to think how it
would offend people of other faiths if it was done to the Gods/Goddessed
of their faiths, like you(Ranjit) illustrated below and why NOT Hindus
also. So... it is NOT protesting nude art per se but definitely Hussein
or whoever can choose anybody else but say Saraswati or Sita. That is
being sensible IMHO.
Regards, --Ramakrishna.
M. Ranjit Mathews (ran...@austin.ibm.com)
wrote: : irgun1943 wrote:
: > Dear Indians,
: > This is an interesting idea.
: > Indian temple carvings can be very graphic. If a Hindu artist paints
: > one of the highest Gods or goddesses in the nude, is that a problem? Or do
: > you fear that the Moslem artist is simply making fun of you ?
Mr.G...@iname.com
I'm glad that fucker drew Hinduan women naked! He should have also drawn
Michelle, saleena begum, and Zahra Jamshed naked! YEA FUCK!
In article <354E6B...@ibm.net>#1/1,
JU...@mimimimi.demon.co.uk
In article <Islam-22...@news.mantra.com>, "Dr. Jai Maharaj"
<address....@web.site> writes
>In article <6iiibg$pql$1...@winter.news.erols.com>,
> "S.L." <alo...@erols.com> wrote:
>> . . . Why not send Mr. Hussain to Pakistan?
>> or say the INDIRA GANDHI in the nude!
>> Then lets see how much protest we get! THAT SHOULD BE GOOD FOR
INDIANS .YOU GUYS CAN PUT THE NUDE PAINTINGS ON THE WALL AND START
WORSHIPPING THEM AFTER ALL YOU ONLY WORSHIP MAN MADE PICTURES YOU
BRAINLESS COW SHITS!!!!REGARDS JUHI CHAWLA PLEASE WATCH MY NEXT FILM
WITH THE MUSLIM SHAHRUKH KHAN SOMEONE ELSE YOU HINDUS WORSHIP IS HE
ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR GODS???.............
>
>I doubt if he has the courage to do so. It seems that he
>intends to use art as a weapon. Perhaps he can attract
>neither price nor attention to his art otherwise.
>
>http://www.flex.com/~jai
>Om ShantiHOME YOU FUCKIN GNOME!!!
--
Mo
26 rampaging Bajrang Dal activists released
The men, who were arrested on Friday by the Cuffe Parade
police station in south Bombay for allegedly ransacking painter
M F Husain's house, have been released on a surety of Rs 1,000 each.
http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/may/04husain.htm
Mo
On 02 May 1998 02:12:09 GMT, mun...@aol.com (Muna123) wrote:
>his incident should be denouced by the world artists and all civilized people
in the world. If Hussain does not seek shelter behind the world law
enforcement agencies, he would be killed by these HINDU TERRORISTS.<
Lets see how much of a hypocrite you are . Do you favour in
India , Hussain being allowed to paint the Prophet and Aisha nude ? Or
that Satanic Verses be banned ?
Mo
On Thu, 07 May 1998 01:38:21 GMT, j...@unforgettable.com (jit) wrote:
>I agree with Husain's right as an artist. However, I'd expect a little
more responsiblity on his part as a matured individual. Given the
already disturbed communal atmosphere in the country Husain should
have known better that a Muslim drawing a Hindu goddess naked would
add fuel to the already explosive fire. <
Couldnt disagree more. These artistes by always pushing the
boundaries give us the rest of humans more freedom.
Although Monty Python's Life of Brian - in my view the best
English movie of all time -was banned in backward states like Texas
and is still not availaible in Islamic countries , it did poke fun at
religion and gave Westerners more freedom.
Had the team not made such a film in order 'not to offend the
sensitivities of the Christians ' the world would be a less free
place.
Once again there are laws of obscenity which I am sure Hussain
has not exceeded , so I would guess the Sita and Sarswati paintings
are not obscene. I hope the Asian Age has the courage to show them .
Hindus must not go down the path of Islam and spend all day
trying to find things that might offend them. With Muslims even Nike
written on training shoes resembles Islamic calligraphy !
The more Hindus welcome Muslims into their fold -most of the
writers of the epics on TV -are Muslim -the quicker they will give up
monotheism ...
Gurupdesh Singh
Saurabh Jang wrote:
>
> sayan bhattacharyya (bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
> : They are no more and no less decent than the sculptures on Khajuraho
> : and Konarak temple walls. I hope that you are not planning to break
> : these temples down. (Well, perhaps you are; your friends, after all,
> : have already had considerable experience in breaking down places of
> : worship, starting with one in Ayodhya).
>
> I challenge you and like minded communist fascists to show me a single
> nude sculpture or painting of Sarasvati and Sita that was made by
> Hindus in times past.
>
Visit the Ajanta caves and other old temples in Bihar/Kashmir
(dated to 9-10th century AD). In these Brahmin temples/shrines you
find statues/figurines of Brahmin Gods/godesses/humans engaging in
intercourse, other sex acts, and orgies. Brahmins ran very
prosperous prostitution centers in these and other temples after
the demise of Buddhism (8-9th century AD) and prior to the arrival
of Islam in these parts (11-12th century AD).
The current-day "Victorian" moral and traditional values of
Brahmanists and their Hindu flock are due to the colonial period.
Earlier Brahmins were remarkably "liberal" and archeological
and historical manuscripts, written by Brahmins themselves,
confirms this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Despite the monotheistic Euro-Christian reformation of Brahmanism
(Hinduism) in the 19th century, remnants of the earlier Brahmanism
still remain. For example, the main diety of many present-day Hindu
temples is Shiv Lingam - a black cylindrical rock shaped as a phallus
of Lord Siva, tipped with red paint. In pre-British times, newly
married Hindu brides were required by Brahmins to FIRST come to these
temples to receive the "blessing and seed of Lord Shiva". As part of
the sacred cerimony, the young girls were made to sit naked and rub
on the Shiv-lingam.
Anglo-Christian Victorian ("foreign") moralistic values
acquired by western-educated Brahmanists and reformers in the
19th century made these traditional sacred rituals and practices
taboo, but devout Hindus still follow them.
Gurupdesh
Sikhivahan
Gurupdesh Singh wrote:
> Visit the Ajanta caves and other old temples in Bihar/Kashmir
> (dated to 9-10th century AD). In these Brahmin temples/shrines you
> find statues/figurines of Brahmin Gods/godesses/humans engaging in
> intercourse, other sex acts, and orgies. Brahmins ran very
> prosperous prostitution centers in these and other temples after
> the demise of Buddhism (8-9th century AD) and prior to the arrival
> of Islam in these parts (11-12th century AD).
>
<snipped>
I think HP Unix servers are quite good. HPUX 11.0 is out for
sometime now, I believe. Save a lot of bother. Put one of
those machines on the network. You can write some sort of
script, or (if you think that's too slow), you may choose
to deploy a suitably-altered innd daemon.
Neither the script nor the daemon need to be too intelligent.
(It doesn't really matter if the topic under discussion is
"how to grow Broccoli in tropical Banashankari", right?)
The server will spew out Brahmanist-kirar-mithya-foodoosthani-
scythian-aryan-go-dasya-shudra-sapta-sindhva-blah-blah
stuff at a speed only constrained by the path MTU to any
destination. That'll be a terriffic hi-tech response to
a centuries-old problem. An auto-responder on an ATM LANE.
What do you think?
Sikhivahan
irgun1943
>Look Irgun,
>
>The Hebrew Bible has more than its share of scandalous sexual stories.
>If an Arab artist started taking "artistic licence" and drew
>all kinds of blasphemous paintings, all the while talking of the
>marvellous "Jewish heritage" which every Arab shared with Jews, would the
>average Jew be amused? What offends most people is the double standard
>here. M.F. Hussain is taking advantage of Hindu tolerance"
Thanks. You answered my question. In reality, what people are angry
about is the privileged position of Moslems in Indian society and the poor
position of hindus in Moslem states. What those guys should have done is
really pressure a change in Indian law to take away privileges and
subsidies.
irgun43
Supratik Das
On Thu, 7 May 1998, Gurupdesh Singh wrote:
> Visit the Ajanta caves and other old temples in Bihar/Kashmir
> (dated to 9-10th century AD). In these Brahmin temples/shrines you
Ain't the Ajanta caves of Buddhist origin??
> find statues/figurines of Brahmin Gods/godesses/humans engaging in
> intercourse, other sex acts, and orgies. Brahmins ran very
What are 'Brahmin Gods'??
> prosperous prostitution centers in these and other temples after
> the demise of Buddhism (8-9th century AD) and prior to the arrival
Reference??
> The current-day "Victorian" moral and traditional values of
> Brahmanists and their Hindu flock are due to the colonial period.
Nope. It started with the Islamic period.
> Earlier Brahmins were remarkably "liberal" and archeological
> and historical manuscripts, written by Brahmins themselves,
> confirms this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
This is correct. Not only Brahmins but Hindus in general were more liberal
as they were in pre-Islamic and pre-Christian Middle East and Europe.
> still remain. For example, the main diety of many present-day Hindu
> temples is Shiv Lingam - a black cylindrical rock shaped as a phallus
> of Lord Siva, tipped with red paint. In pre-British times, newly
This is true. The Shiva Linga represents a phallus and is one of the
ancient icons of fertility.
> married Hindu brides were required by Brahmins to FIRST come to these
> temples to receive the "blessing and seed of Lord Shiva". As part of
> the sacred cerimony, the young girls were made to sit naked and rub
> on the Shiv-lingam.
Reference?? May be some Scythisthanic scholars, eh??
> Anglo-Christian Victorian ("foreign") moralistic values
> acquired by western-educated Brahmanists and reformers in the
> 19th century made these traditional sacred rituals and practices
> taboo, but devout Hindus still follow them.
Follow what?? Sitting naked and rubbing lingam. May be in your village.
Laulak Siddique
The "privileges" that muslims have in India are the rapes pogroms and
massacres initiated against them by the hindus.
Gurupdesh Singh
Sikhivahan wrote:
>
> Gurupdesh Singh wrote:
>
> > Visit the Ajanta caves and other old temples in Bihar/Kashmir
> > (dated to 9-10th century AD). In these Brahmin temples/shrines you
> > intercourse, other sex acts, and orgies. Brahmins ran very
> > the demise of Buddhism (8-9th century AD) and prior to the arrival
> >
>
> <snipped>
>
> I think HP Unix servers are quite good. HPUX 11.0 is out for
> sometime now, I believe. Save a lot of bother. Put one of
> those machines on the network. You can write some sort of
> script, or (if you think that's too slow), you may choose
> to deploy a suitably-altered innd daemon.
Can it also post "nude sculptures/paintings . . . made by
Hindus in past times"? There are many Hindus who deny that
they exist.
>
> Neither the script nor the daemon need to be too intelligent.
> (It doesn't really matter if the topic under discussion is
> "how to grow Broccoli in tropical Banashankari", right?)
> The server will spew out Brahmanist-kirar-mithya-foodoosthani-
> scythian-aryan-go-dasya-shudra-sapta-sindhva-blah-blah
> stuff at a speed only constrained by the path MTU to any
> destination. That'll be a terriffic hi-tech response to
> a centuries-old problem. An auto-responder on an ATM LANE.
> What do you think?
Sorry, I am not intelligent enough to understand you.
Gurupdesh
chatterjee avik prasun
: There is no need to lower oneself by writing
: "I am just an engineering student" above. Hundreds
: of millions of people would be thrilled to receive
: an engineering education. Here is an elementary
: problem for the engineering student to solve: A
: cylindrical pressure vessel having an average radius
: of 21 in. is subjected to an internal pressure of
: 12 psi. A longitudinal seam in this tank has rivets
: spaced at 3/4 in. Calculate the shear load per rivet.
A related problem. Calculate the shear force sustained
by a single rivet assigned the task of keeping Jai's mouth
shut, his fingers from the keyboard, or his cloaca from
ejecting filth. In all cases, it will be found that no known
material has the strength to withstand the forces necessary
to perform said functions.
-avik.
: Jai Maharaj
: jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
: http://www.flex.com/~jai
: Om Shanti
: > On Sun, 3 May 1998, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
: >
: > :In article <6iiibg$pql$1...@winter.news.erols.com>,
: > : "S.L." <alo...@erols.com> wrote:
: > :> . . . Why not send Mr. Hussain to Pakistan?
: > :> There he can use his much valued talent painting Mohammed
: > :> or say the Virgin Mary in the nude!
: > :> Then lets see how much protest we get! hehe..............
: > :
: > :I doubt if he has the courage to do so. It seems that he
: > :intends to use art as a weapon. Perhaps he can attract
: > :neither price nor attention to his art otherwise.
: > :
: > :Jai Maharaj
: > :http://www.flex.com/~jai
: > :Om Shanti
: >
at...@are.berkeley.eud
The pseudo-secularists have come crawling out of the
woodwork in defense of MFHussain. And in good time too
since good ol' Hussain does need defending against the
actions of vandals of the Bajrang Dal or whatever dumb
organisation ransacked his house.
Ah, thank god for the pseudo-secularists! They had
crawled INTO the woodwork, if you recall, the last time
when the oh-so-secular Govt of India had banned a book
by Rushdie with such indecent haste that the Ayatollahs
were green with envy that a secular organization like
the Govt of the Republic of India had beaten them in
banning the book. In fact, they were moved to put the
fatwa on our Salman's scary head only because they wanted
to show that Ayatollahs were more secular that the Govt
of India. The secular Govt of India would have put the
fatwa had they thought of it earlier. So they were just
content in banning the book.
Freedom of expression is a right, the pseudo-secs cry. Too
bad they are busy boring into the woodwork when books
are banned. Or is it that they don't have the balls to
actually protest the banning of a book that has the
potential of offending a group that does not hesitate to
go chop-chop parts of people who do the offending? I have
a sneaky suspicion that that could account for the strange
disappearance of the p-secularists when the offended party
is of the take-no-nonsense from writers/artists/authors
school and just put a fatwa on the head of whoever had the
guts to write unpleasant things.
You may say that I am needlessly stating the obvious when
I say that the p-secularists who cry freedom of expression
now are gutless, emasculated, lobotomized, morally
bankcrupt, ethically handicapped, spineless, bottom-
dwelling worthless crap. And you'd be right. But it still
is worth marvelling over that India is probably unique
in the world in that its enemies are competely home-
grown. India does not need a Pakistan or a Bangladesh
or China to keep it hobbled and backward. The p-secs
would do much better at it than Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Come to think of it, the recognized enemies are also in
a broad sense 'homegrown.' But for partition, it would
have been one big happy secular country. Shudder. Major
shudder. Now if only the pseudoseculars move out of
India. Ah, would we not shatter it to bits and remould
it nearer to our hearts' desire? as good old Khayyam
asked.
Atanu
____________
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle unless the
testimony be of such a kind that its falsehood would be more
miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish.
___________ David Hume
Please change the domain name to edu in my address when replying.
sayan bhattacharyya
In article <6j3brc$3d8$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>, <at...@are.berkeley.eud> wrote:
>
>Ah, thank god for the pseudo-secularists! They had
>crawled INTO the woodwork, if you recall, the last time
>when the oh-so-secular Govt of India had banned a book
>by Rushdie with such indecent haste that the Ayatollahs
>were green with envy that a secular organization like
>the Govt of the Republic of India had beaten them in
>banning the book. In fact, they were moved to put the
>fatwa on our Salman's scary head only because they wanted
>to show that Ayatollahs were more secular that the Govt
>of India. The secular Govt of India would have put the
>fatwa had they thought of it earlier. So they were just
>content in banning the book.
As someone who defends Hussein's (or anyone else's)
right to paint whatever he wants on the ground of
freedom-of-speech, I would like to point out that
I have repeatedly made clear that I also condemn
the ban on Rushdie's book (and the Bangladeshi
government's persecution of Taslima Nasrin for
similar reasons).
I feel that *everyone* irrespective of religious
affiliation should have the right to express their
opinions without fear and favor and without facing
harrassment. Hussein, Rushdie, Nasrin. You, me, Atanu.
Everyone.
I don't know who are the people whom Atanu refers to as
`pseudo-seculars'. If they defended Hussein and not
Rushdie, they are obviously hypocrites. I am a
secularist and damned proud of it, and I would defend
*both* Rushdie and Hussein.
at...@are.berkeley.eud
In soc.culture.bengali sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
: I don't know who are the people whom Atanu refers to as
: `pseudo-seculars'. If they defended Hussein and not
: Rushdie, they are obviously hypocrites. I am a
: secularist and damned proud of it, and I would defend
: *both* Rushdie and Hussein.
I do believe you have answered your own question. The
p-seculars are those who come out shouting freedom of
expression when Hussain paints his nudes but are quick
to get into the woodwork when the holier-than-the-
ayatollah govt of india trips over itself in its haste
to ban a stupid book.
So how many posts did you post when you heard about
the banning of the book? Any letters to the holy govt of
India protesting the action? Or do you reserve your
righteous indignation for cases that are meant to show
that you are more Catholic than the Pope in that you will
only defend the rights of people to offend Hindus and not
when it comes to the rights of people to offend non-Hindus?
Claiming secularism and being blind to a person's religion
when dealing with the person are two entirely different
things. I believe that if India were truly secular, we
would not be in the business of constantly pitching Ram
against Rehman. May the Congress bastards roast in hell
(just a wish; I know there is no hell) who learnt the
trick from the British bastards and used it unscrupulously
against the poor ignorant Indians.
I was in Calcutta visiting an aunt for a couple of weeks
in December. Every morning I was woken up at an ungodly
hour because of a loudspeaker blaring away in arabic.
The secular govt of Bengal, I learnt, was powerless to
have the noise and nuisance ordinances implemented if the
case involved a mosque. So, what does freedom of expression
say about this sort of case?
Hypocrisy is the least of the sins of the so-called
psecularists. I am mostly a reasonable person and somewhat
educated and somewhat informed. Slowly it became evident
to me that there was a blatant bias against a particular
section of people. If I hold less than moderate view, it is
because I have realized the imbalance. And I realize the
immense danger in the way that things are going. If a moderate
person like me finally throws up his hands, what of the less
peacefully inclined or the less fortunate? Would they not
take to the streets and go on a rampage? Do we not learn
from the Babri masjid episode that people provoked can be
dangerous? That playing the religion card is dangerous?
That if divisions are made along religious lines, then
there is no way in hell that Hindus would lose in India.
Don't the people who constantly hold up religion as their
trump card realise that it is best to downplay any differences
among the religions if the minorities are not to meet the
same fate as that in Pakistan and Bangladesh or any other
Islamic country?
I am sure that Hindus are basically people who mostly say
live and let live. In fact, I would go so far as to say that
Hindus are basically spineless as evidenced by the fact that
India has been repeatedly invaded by barbarians who have
plundered and pillaged the land with impunity. Hindus have
had their temples destroyed by the thousands and had their
land put under the sword too many times for anyone to ever
seriously entertain the idea that Indians are anything but
cowards. At the height of the British rule of India, less
than a vanishingly small percentage of the people in India
were British. Yet like cattle India was ruled by the British.
No sir, if the Indians lack anything, it is guts. Not money,
not pride, not religion, not brains--just good old fashioned
guts is lacking.
Yet even a rat when cornered will turn and fight knowing
that it has nowhere else to run to and nothing more to lose
in the end. That is what is happening. The BJP is just a
symptom of that final being pushed into a corner and being
unable to retreat any further, the spineless Indian has
got a pseudo-backbone. If I were a minority in India, I would
be very afraid of the anger of the majority. I would see the
development with a great deal of apprehension.
I don't know how to express the fear that I feel in my guts
about the situation in India. The closest I can do is point
to a movie I saw last year. It left me very uneasy and I could
not quite figure it out. Then it struck me that the movie is
to me an allegorical tale in one respect. See 'Sling Blade'.
muna...@hotmail.com
In article <6j3cqt$qqg$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
> As someone who defends Hussein's (or anyone else's)
> right to paint whatever he wants on the ground of
> freedom-of-speech, I would like to point out that
> I have repeatedly made clear that I also condemn
> the ban on Rushdie's book (and the Bangladeshi
> government's persecution of Taslima Nasrin for
> similar reasons).
People of bangladesh should demand for abolishing such laws that infringe on
the rights of people to express their views by books, painting, etc. It is
these rights make people to think beyond.
> I feel that *everyone* irrespective of religious
> affiliation should have the right to express their
> opinions without fear and favor and without facing
> harrassment. Hussein, Rushdie, Nasrin. You, me, Atanu.
> Everyone.
>
Just to point out here that having laws is not enough, govts should protect it
too. Look at the Bajrang Dal activities arrested and immediatly released for
ransacking the 'house'. This is good time for govt officail to show to
general public that people indulge in anti-social activities dealt seviourly.
> I don't know who are the people whom Atanu refers to as
> `pseudo-seculars'. If they defended Hussein and not
> Rushdie, they are obviously hypocrites. I am a
> secularist and damned proud of it, and I would defend
> *both* Rushdie and Hussein.
>
>
Supratik Das
Bishop is buried as Faisalabad remains tense
FAISALABAD: Thousands of Christians turned out for the
burial on Sunday of
Roman Catholic bishop John Joseph who killed himself in
protest at Pakistan's
blasphemy law, witnesses said.
A burial service was attended by more than 10,000
people inside and outside the
cathedral of St Peter and Paul in this industrial city.
Joseph, 62, the bishop of
Faisalabad, in Punjab province, shot himself in the
head on Wednesday in the town
of Sahiwal outside a court which condemned a fellow
Christian, Ayub Masih 25,
to death under the blasphemy law last month.
Arriving in small processions, emotional Christians
gathered here from various
parts of predominantly Islamic Pakistan. Carrying
banners and placards, youths
chanted slogans demanding the repeal of the law which
they claim is
discriminatory.
Speakers at a special mass for the dead bishop appealed
to the crowd to remain
peaceful and vowed to continue their struggle against
the blasphemy law, witnesses
said. The police said the funeral went ahead
peacefully.
Earlier, a stream of people filed past the body of
Joseph, placed in a glass coffin
and lying in state at the church since its arrival here
from Sahiwal on Friday. Soon
after the burial ceremony, the police erected
barricades to prevent the crowd from
heading towards the city's main clock tower area where
several thousand Muslims
had gathered for a rally to oppose changes to the
blasphemy law.
A separate contingent of police and paramilitary troops
cordoned off the Muslim
crowd to prevent their march towards the bishop's
burial site, witnesses said. The
rally, arranged by influential religious and political
parties condemned the tearing
down of a hoarding bearing a fundamental Islamic tenet
by Christian youths here
on Friday.
The police also fired tear gas to disperse Muslim
youths who torched two shops on
Sunday. Sources in the minority community said a group
of Muslim militants
entered the Christian town in the suburbs of Faislabad
and set fire to the
Christian-owned shops, a video rental outlet and a
grocery store.
The fire spread to a nearby house but firemen
intervened in time to save the
property, the police said. They said the situation was
now ``under control'' after
youths gathered amid rumours that a Christian crowd
might attack Muslim houses.
Thousands of Muslims who had earlier assembled in the
city's main clock tower
area also dispersed after leaders of Pakistan's Islamic
parties vowed to oppose
changes to the blasphemy law.
Earlier, the bishop's body was buried in the sprawling
compound outside the
church amid the sounds of weeping and wailing from
thousands of people. The
gates of the church were manned by armed Christian
volunteers.
``The blood of bishop Joseph will pave the way for a
revolution,'' read a banner.
Joseph, 65, was the chairman of a human rights
commission established by the
Catholic Bishops Conference of Pakistan. Some Christian
leaders accused the
administration of stopping the mourners from coming to
the church.
A Christian law-maker, Johnson Michael, accused
Pakistan's government of
bowing to Islamic extremists and demanded the blasphemy
law, which provides
for the death penalty for anyone who insults Islam or
Islam's Prophet,
Mohammed.
``Religious fundamentalist elements in Pakistan have
become more active and
involved in the government and in the society as a
whole,'' he said. ``They have
brought in laws that are against religious
minorities.''
The local administration has called for reinforcement
of police and paramilitary
troops as officials fear a clash between Christians and
radical Muslim groups.
In New Delhi the Samata Party expressed ``deep regret''
at the repercussions of the
blasphemy law in Pakistan. The party said in a
statement here on Sunday that
whatever may be protestations of Pakistani prime
minister Nawaz Sharief about the
rights of minorities in Pakistan, the extreme reactions
and sense of insecurity it has
caused among the Christian community is ``most
unfortunate.''
The struggle to establish a secular order cannot be
confined to the boundaries of
our own nation, particularly when it involves the right
to life of an individual.
When such rabid sentiments are roused against a
minority community in one
country, it is bound to have repercussions in the
neighbouring countries, the
statement warned.(Agencies)
BUSHCUTTER
Watch out Wild West, new campaign of 'giving the Muslims a bad name'
has been initiated by the Hindus.
And one of them is Supratik Das (not forgetting his mates, Mo and
so-called 'divine sex doctor' Dr. J Maharaj, too!)
Bushcutter