soc.culture.occitan - FAQ
giannieanna
________________General________________
Q: What does 'Occitan' mean?
A: Occitan is the name of a Romance language (like French, Italian, Spanish,
Portuguese, etc.) spoken mostly in Southern France.
Because of the tragic history of Occitania and of its language, the latter
came to be known under various denominations -- Provençal and Lemozí in the
Middle Ages, Langue d'Oc later on.
*Occitan* is the form preferred by both linguists and Occitanists (q.v.)
today, but everyday speakers of the language are most likely to employ
another name for it (a regional name like Gascon, Auvernhat or Niçard) or
even the derogatory name 'patois' imposed by the French.
Q: Are 'Occitan' and 'Provençal' synonymous, then?
A: Provençal, as said above, is the most common name for the mediaeval
literary language. Today, however, Provençal refers properly only to the
local dialect of Provence.
Q: What is an Occitanist?
A: An Occitanist is a militant for the recognition and the use of the
Occitan language in the administration and the media. It is a word referring
to a cultural activity, not a political one. Most Occitanists are
anti-nationalist and anti-regionalist.
Q: Is there anything at all about Occitania on the internet?
A: You may be amazed by the amount of web sites devoted to Occitania. A good
starting point for browsing the Occitan web is the OccitaNet at
http://occitanet.free.fr/
Q: Why is there so little traffic on soc.culture.occitan?
A: Because most people interested in Occitan culture, history and language
are already subscribers to the list-oc mailing list, which has been around
for a much longer time than this newsgroup.
To become a member of the list-oc send a SUBSCRIBE list-oc message to
list...@cco.asso.fr.
________________The Land________________
Q: What is Occitania?
A: Occitania is the territory where Occitan is spoken.
Occitania has never been an independent political entity, but neither have
Germany or Italy before the end of the 19th century, when one thinks about
it.
Before the French conquest (1271-1481), Occitania was divided in several
middle-sized political entities either independent (e.g. Tolosa/Toulouse) or
allied with major European powers (England, Aragon, and the Holy Roman
Empire).
After the French conquest, French was imposed as the official language of
administration (1539), and it slowly replaced Occitan in all aspects of a
written language. Occitan became an oral language, after having been a major
literary language of mediaeval Europe.
Q: Why 'French conquest'? Wasn't the land already French?
A: Let us quote Linda Paterson, Senior Lecturer in French (University of
Warwick), from her fundamental work "The World of the Troubadours - Medieval
Occitan society, c.1100-c.1300"
page 12
"Historians agree that in France, Occitania and Catalonia public powers
became fragmented and privatized after the break-up of the Carolingian
empire, being taken over progressively by counts, viscounts and petty
lords."
page 13
"Gascony and the Pyrenees seem to have been independent of the French king
in practice if not in law. (...) Later, great Gascon lords pay homage, but
only as lip service, either to the king of France or the king of England (as
duke of Aquitaine), or the count of Toulouse, with an uncertain sense of
which is the appropriate lord."
page 15
"Historians have traditionally stressed the weakness of vassalic ties in the
Languedoc. Magnou-Nortier [of the CNRS] claimed that vassalic ties were
unknown in the county of Toulouse until the Capetian conquest in the
thirteenth century. Cheyette [of Princeton] agreed with her that it is very
difficult to assimilate southern convenientiae to oaths of homage and fealty
on the northern French model. 'Mentions of homage are late and extremely
rare. The fief remains totally foreign to them.'"
Q: Where is Occitania?
A: Occitania roughly covers the most southern third of France (the
linguistic boundary can be drawn north of a line Bordèu/Bordeaux,
Peiriguers/Périgueux, Lemòtges/Limoges, Clarmont/Clermont-Ferrand, Lo
Puèi/Le Puy, Dia/Die, Briançon), several Alpine valleys in Italy, in the
provinces of Turin, Coni/Cuneo and Imperia (the linguistic boundary can be
drawn east of a line Ols/Oulx, Fenestrella/Fenestrelle, La Tor/Torre
Pellice, Entraiga/Entracque, Triora) collectively simply known as 'las
Valadas', and the Val d'Aran in Northern Spain (Catalonia).
Q: Can I find any maps on the web?
A: Sure. You may check, for instance,
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7156/occ.html
________________Symbols________________
Q: Why is the Languedoc cross the symbol of Occitania, when it only relates
to a single province?
A: Because this cross is not 'the Languedoc cross'. It originated in the
Provence. The first written reference to it is in a 1173 paper written by a
Provençal notary.
When the Count of Tolosa/Toulouse Ramon VI acquired the Provence, he added
the cross to his arms. It eventually became the symbol of Languedoc because
it stood against the French-led Albigensian Crusade.
Q: Why is the symbol of the Felibrige a seven-branch star?
A: Because the Felibrige was founded by seven poets on a 21 May, day of the
Santa Estela (Holy Star).
Q: Why are 'sang e aur' (gules and gold, i.e. red and yellow) the
traditional colours of Occitania?
A: Because many Occitan provinces were long allies of the Kingdom of Aragon
whose arms were gules and gold.
Q: If Occitania has never been a full-fledged political entity, how come it
has a flag?
A: The flag was drawn up by the independentist PNO (Partit Nacionalista
Occitan). It features the Occitan cross and the Felibrige star, yellow on a
red background.
________________Language________________
Q: What is the official status of Occitan?
A: Occitan is the official language (along with Spanish and Catalan) of the
Val d'Aran in Spain.
Occitan has been declared a protected minorised language by the Italian
Law 482/99 passed in December 1999. Occitan is the co-official language
(along with Italian) of any municipality whose council declares its being
part of the 'Occitan-Speaking Territory'. Most councils of the relevant
municipalities have already passed the resolution (more than 100 as of
today).
In France, within whose borders lies most of Occitania, Occitan has no
official status whatsoever.
Q: Is there really a clear-cut border between the Oïl dialects of Northern
France and the Oc dialects of Southern France?
A: Not only is the border between the Oïl and Oc domains extremely clear and
well described by linguists (and quite unanimously) -- refer to "l'Atlas des
Peuples d'Europe Occidentale" by Jean and André Sellier (p. 96), to
"Einführung in die okzitanische Sprache" by Peter Cichon (p. 17), to "Que
Sais-Je ? n°1059, la Langue occitane" by Pierre Bec 6th ed. (p. 7), or to
"des Langues romanes" by Jean-Marie Klinkenberg 2nd ed. (p. 226), all of
these works are very recent -- but the small area north of Limousin called
the "Croissant" (because of its shape) that linguists used to consider until
recently as an "interferential" area between the Oïl and Oc domains, is
today fully considered as being part of the latter. The border between
French and Occitan is hence clear-cut.
Q: Is Occitan really a single language? One can read on the Ethnologue
web-site, for instance, that it is but a collection of loosely related
languages.
A: The 1951 French law dubbed 'Loi Deixonne', which established the
conditions in which so-called 'regional' languages could be taught, the 1999
government-sponsored Péry-Poignant report about minorised languages in
France, and the subsequent study by Pr. Cerquiglini about its scientific
quality -- all recognise the unity of Occitan as being one and only one
language divided in several dialects. This is the juridic aspect.
Also all linguists above recognise the unity of Occitan (Cichon page 18, Bec
page 5, Klinkenberg pages 223 and 227, the latter making a distinction for
Gascon and its peculiarities).
Bec page 67
"Du point de vue linguistique, ce qui frappe dans l'occitan des troubadours,
c'est qu'il présente, dès ses premières manifestations, c'est-à-dire dès le
XIme siècle, une assez grande unité : les différences dialectales y sont en
effet minimes et sans aucun rapport avec la provenance dialectale du
troubadour ; l'idiome est sensiblement le même du Limousin jusqu'à la
Méditerranée."
By the way -- the Ethnologue web-site is not maintained by linguists, but by
missionaries.
Q: So what are these dialects?
A: They can be divided in three main groups: Northern (Lemosin, Auvernhat,
Vivaro-Alpine), Southern (Lengadocian, Provençal), and Gascon.
Q: Isn't 'Occitan' a recent invention? This word has no historical tradition
to back it.
A: Let us quote Linda Paterson's work "The World of the Troubadours -
Medieval Occitan society, c.1100-c.1300" again
page 3
"The term 'occitan' was used by the official administration in the
fourteenth century, in such terms as 'lingua occitana', 'respublica
occitana', 'patria linguae occitanae' and 'Occitania'."
The fourteenth century is not exactly 'recent'.
Q: Isn't the Occitan literature but little more than 100 years old with the
Nobel Prize Frederic Mistral? Before Mistral, wasn't Occitan a 'patois', a
mere oral language?
A: In the Middle Ages, Occitan was, much like English today, the
international language of the 'pop stars' of the time, the Troubadours. But
it was also an administrative and juridic language, in a time when most
other Romance countries used only Latin for written documents.
Let us quote Peter Cichon, page 9
"Doch nicht nur als Sprache der Dichtung, sondern auch als Amts- und
Wissenschaftssprache findet das Okzitanische bereits im 12. Jahrhundert
Verwendung und dringt damit deutlich früher als etwa das Französische in
Verwendungsbereiche vor, die bis dahin ausschließliche Domäne des Lateins
waren. Und schließlich ist das Okzitanische die erste romanische
Volkssprache überhaupt, in der eine Grammatik geschrieben wird: die Razós de
trobar von Raimon Vidal de Besalú, entstanden Ende des 12./Anfang des 13.
Jh."
Let us quote Jean-Marie Klinkenberg, page 228
"L'occitan fut au moyen âge langue de haute civilisation, connaissant même
une remarquable expansion. (...) L'occitan fait sentir son influence dans le
nord de l'Italie et dans le nord de la France. Ce fut donc une langue
littéraire de rayonnement international, mais aussi une langue juridique et
administrative solide."
Klinkenberg, page 229
"C'est l'occitan qui, parmi les langues romanes, donne la première vraie
littérature."
Q: Isn't Occitan today a dead language?
A: Occitan is dying out, especially in the countryside where it used to be
the only spoken language but sixty years ago, but is nowhere close to being
wiped out, despite all the efforts of the French administration.
Also, Occitan is alive and kicking in the Val d'Aran and in the Valadas.
Klinkenberg, page 228
"Le nombre de locuteurs de l'occitan est estimé tantôt à 10 tantôt à 12
millions. Le comptage est certes malaisé, (...) mais en tout cas aucun
chiffre avancé ne descend jamais plus bas que 6 millions."
Pr. Klinkenberg's work was published in 1999.
Q: If there are so many speakers of Occitan, how come one can't never hear
any Occitan word in Southern France?
A: Because of an alienating process known as 'la vergonha' (i.e. shame). The
French administration managed to make the Occitans think of their own
language as a patois, i.e. as a corrupted form of language. The use of
Occitan hence came to be regarded as rude outside of the family circle.
Q: How come there are so many different orthographies if there is only one
language.
A: There are only two standard orthographies.
Max W. Wheeler, in "The Romance Languages", ed. by M. Harris and N. Vincent,
page 246
"The Felibrige standard (...) is based on the Rhone variety of Provençal
(...); its orthography is largely phonemic (...). Occitan as promoted by the
Institut d'Estudis Occitans returns approximately to the medieval
orthography, which is morphophonemic and avowedly pan-Occitan in scope."
Any other orthography can only be the whim of an isolated writer.
Q: Where may I learn Occitan?
A: You may check with
Collègi d'Occitània
19 carrièra de la Fondariá
31000 Tolosa/Toulouse
France
CNED
Alèia Antonio Machado
Lo Miralh
31000 Toulouse
France
Escòla Occitana d'Estiu
Centre Cultural de Picapol
47340 Nautafaja la Tor
France
Fédération pour l'Enseignement de la Langue et de la Culture d'Oc
CRDP
Place de la Citadelle
34064 Montpellier cedex
France
________________Culture________________
Q: Who are the major Occitan writers?
A: The Troubadours of the Middle Ages; the 1904 Nobel Prize Frederic
Mistral; and amongst the writers of the twentieth century, Joan Bodon,
Marcèla Delpastre and Bernat Manciet.
Q: Whence can I buy Occitan books?
A: You may check with
Espaci Occitan
21, charrièra de l'Estampariá/rue de l'Imprimerie
05000 Gap
France
IDECO
BP 6
81700 Puèglaurenç/Puylaurens
France
Librariá Occitana
1, place du Millénaire
34000 Montpellier
France
Ousitanio Vivo (www.cnnet.it/occitania/ousitanio)
Casella Postale
12020 Venasca
Italy
Pam de Nas
30, rue des Grands Augustins
75006 Paris
France
Princi Néguer
14 rue Saint-Louis
64000 Pau
France
Q: What are the most representative contemporary Occitan bands?
A: Nadau from Bearn mix traditional songs with blues; Lou Dalfin from
Piedmont play folk rock with a punk touch; Dupain from Marseilles play
traditional songs with an electronic touch; Massilia Sound System from
Marseilles, Mauresca Fracà Dub from Montpellier and Nux Vomica from Nice
play 'trobamuffin' (Occitan raggamuffin); the Fabulous Trobadors from
Toulouse and La Talvera from Cordes have tackled a wide array of different
styles.
Q: Where can I find out about contemporary Occitan music (rock, raggamuffin,
pop)?
A: You may check with
Associacion Cordae/La Talvera (www.talvera.org)
tal...@talvera.org
BP 40
81170 Cordes
France
Linha Imaginòt
40, rue de la Banque
82000 Montauban
France
Massilia Chourmo (www.massilia-soundsystem.com)
massilia...@wanadoo.fr
15, rue Jean Roque
13001 Marseille
France
Q : What are the main Occitan cultural bodies?
A : Institut d'Estudis Occitans
BP 6
81700 Puèglaurenç/Puylaurens
France
Centre International de l'Écrit en Langue d'Oc
3, place Joffre
13130 Berre-l'Étang
France
CIRDOC
Place du 14-Juillet
Espace Du Guesclin
BP 180
34503 Béziers cedex
France
Ostau dau País Marselhés
2, rue des Rois Mages
13001 Marseilles
France
________________Miscellanea________________
Q: What are the main Occitan media?
A: There are two Occitan weeklies: *La Setmana*, published in Pau, which is
Pan-Occitan, and *Aué*, published as a weekly supplement of the Catalan
Daily Avui (www.avui.com), which is centred on Aranese news.
There are several monthlies, most notably *Prouvènço Aro*, centred on
Provençal life and culture, and *Ousitanio Vivo*, from the Occitan-speaking
valleys of Italy.
There are several local radio stations, the largest one being the Gascon
network Ràdio País.
There are an Occitan TV on the internet, at www.oc-tv.net, and two Occitan
radios at www.radiolengadoc.com and www.radio-occitania.com
France 3 Méditerranée (Marseilles and Nice) broadcasts two weekly magazines
on Saturdays at 17:57 and on Sundays at 11:48, and a daily bulletin at
13:20.
France 3 Sud (Toulouse and Montpellier) broadcasts a weekly magazine on
Sundays at 11:48.
Q: What are the main Occitan political parties?
A: In France:
- Corrent Revolucionari Occitan (CRÒC), left-wing, independentist: not
really a political party, more of a loose activists' network
- Partit Nacionalista Occitan (PNO), rather at the centre of the political
spectrum, the emphasis being on independentism and democracy
- Partit Occitan (PÒC), left-of-centre, autonomist. Member of Régions &
Peuples Solidaires, the French regionalist party.
- Unitat d'Òc: Aquitaine-based autonomist alliance, no particular political
colour. The PNO takes part in it.
- País Nòstre: alliance similar to Unitat d'Òc, in Languedoc-Roussillon. The
PNO, the CRÒC and the PÒC take part in it.
- Région Provence: very moderate regionalist alliance in Provence. Close to
the Green party. The PÒC takes part in it.
In Italy:
- Movement Autonomista Occitan (MAO): close to the PNO
In Spain:
- Unitat d'Aran, left-of-centre, autonomist
Q: Where can I buy an 'OC' automobile oval?
A: Send a EUR 2.60 cheque to IEO s.d. Amistats, 12 r du faubourg Bonnefoy F
31500 Toulouse.
Last modified 7 December 2001
Much of the information above was retrieved from "l'Armanac de Mesclum
2002", which can be ordered by sending a EUR 10.29 cheque for "Leis Amics de
Mesclum" to Mrs Joanina Dugas, 52 allée de la Grande-Bastide Cazaulx F 13012
Marseilles.
Sylvie Vilas
> The soc.culture.occitan FAQ
Consí va que tot siague escrit en ingles ?
(ieu m'agradaria plan de legir, tamben...)
Gianni quand Infonia marcha pas
news:9uuf66$m3q$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> Consí va que tot siague escrit en ingles ?
> (ieu m'agradaria plan de legir, tamben...)
A una epòca, lo 99 del cent dels messatges sus s.c.o. èran en anglés, de monde
que s'interessavan a Occitània mès que legissián pas la lenga nòstra.
Lavetz escriguèri aquela FAQ. Cada 6 meses meti en linha una version a jorn.
Dins las darrièras setmanas i aguèc fòrça mai messatges en occitan. Bensai que
me caldriá botar en linha una version bilingüe.
--
Gianni [fr,it,en,oc,hu,de,ca(,es,ru,ro)]
nassuu a Milan (IT-MI)
crescut a Tolosa (FR-31)
habitant le Vexin (FR-95)
_______________________________________________________________________
Lu francés per amics, mas non per vesins, se pòdes.
(provèrbi niçard)
--
Posted from [212.73.232.46]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Sylvie Vilas
> Dins las darrièras setmanas i aguèc fòrça mai messatges en occitan. Bensai
que
> me caldriá botar en linha una version bilingüe.
:-)
Me semblava que l'occitan se parlava mai que mai sus la terra de Francia. Me
trompi ? Benleu, ne caldriá escriure una revirada en francès...
D'aquel biais, los Occitans qu'an paur de parlar lor lengua perqué penson
qu'es un patoes gausarian maí, o parlarian de lor cultura en francès ?
Maí a causir, aimariá mai legir la faq en òc qu'en engles...