French is 61 separate languages
Bob
languages. In fact, it is at least 61 languages, with another 8
possible languages. Of those 7 are extinct or possibly extinct.
The criterion used was mutual intelligibility. >90% intelligibility =
dialect of French. <90% intelligibility = separate language.
This is not yet formally written up as it is still in notes.
Hopefully, it will be written up soon.
*Langue d'oil*
*Overseas French*
*Canadian French*
Quebecois French (General Canadian French)
Rural Quebecois French
Saguenay Quebecois French
Gaspésie Quebecois French
Metis French
Brayon French
Acadian French (Cajun French)
Hutterite French
SE Asian French
*Creole French*
Haitian French Creole French
St Lucia Creole French
Guyanese Creole French
Guadeloupe Creole French
St. Barts Creole French
Karipúna Creole French
San Miguel Creole French
Morisyen Creole French
Réunion Creole French
Seselwa Creole French
Tayo Creole French
*Continental French*
*Belgian French*
Belgian French
Walloon (Walloon Namur)
West Walloon (Picardian Walloon)
East Walloon (Liégeois)
South Walloon (Lorrainian Walloon)
*Langues d'oil of France*
Standard French
Picard
Walloonian Picard
Lorrain
Sarregueminois Lorraine
Bressaud Lorrain
Welche
Champenois
Franc-Comptois
Burgundian
Bressan Burgundian (more than one language?)
Brionno-Charolais?
Nivernais? (extinct?)
Bourbonnais
Berrichon
Tourangeau
Orléanais
Gâtinais?
Peurcheron
Blaisois? (extinct?)
Vendômois? (extinct?)
Beauceron? (extinct)
Etampois? (extinct)
Briard? (extinct)
Solognot? (extinct?)
Mainland Norman
Southern Norman
Cotentinais (some monolinguals!)
Jèrriais
Serquiais
North Guernésiais
South Guernésiais
Gallo
Angevin
Poitevin (some monolinguals!)
Gallo Poitevin
Maraîchin
Low Bocain
High Bocain
Southwest Bocain
Marais
Aunisois
Insular Poitevin
Saintongeais
Meridional French
GB
all local slang.
nadagami
>
> *Canadian French*
Dans ma langue à moi, Canadien French, ça s'écrit « canayen », et
c'est attesté.
nadagami
Eudémonix
YOu are ignorant. You're talking about something you clearly dont
understand.
leopold lafeuille
don't understand (fifty per cent) the french canadians when they
talk !
And they talk french of paris and not the "joual" (i understand 0%) !
The canadian picture in France have under-title !
Joual is the origin of french in canada, and is normand mixed with
west french dialects very diferent of standard french (original
dialects of paris and orleans)
Bob
> It is September 7, 1:59, Eudémonix <Kanra...@ Gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 6, 5:12 pm, Bob <lindsay.rob...@ Gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> IS French Thought to Be one language, purpose Actually It Is Many
> >> Languages. In Fact, It Is at least 61 languages, with Another 8
> >> Languages as possible. Of Those seven are extinct or extinct Possibly.
>
> >> The Criterion Used INTELLIGIBILITY WAS mutual. > = 90% INTELLIGIBILITY
> >> Dialect of French. <90% = INTELLIGIBILITY Separate language.
>
> >> This is not up yet Formally Written As It Is still in notes.
> >> Hopefully, It Will Be Written up soon.
>
> >> * Language of oil *
>
> >> * * French Overseas
>
> >> * French Canadian *
>
> >> Quebecois us (General French Canadian)
> >> Saguenay Quebecois French
> >> Gaspésie Quebecois French
>
>
> >> French Brayon
>
> >> Acadian us (Cajun French)
>
> >> French Hutterite
>
> >> SE Asian French
>
> >> * * French Creole
> >> Haitian French Creole French
>
> >> St Lucia Creole French
>
> >> Guyanese Creole French
>
> >> Guadeloupe Creole French
> >> St. Barts Creole French
>
> >> Karipúna Creole French
>
> >> San Miguel Creole French
>
> >> Morisyen Creole French
>
> >> Seselwa Creole French
>
> >> Tayo Creole French
>
>
> >> * Belgian * French
> >> Belgian French
>
> >> Walloon (Walloon Namur)
> >> East Walloon (Liège)
> >> South Walloon (Walloon Lorrainian)
>
> >> * Language of oil of France *
> >> Standard French
>
> >> Picard
> >> Walloonian Picard
>
> >> Lorraine Sarregueminois
> >> Bressaud Lorrain
>
> >> Welche
>
> >> Champagne
>
> >> Franc-Comptois
>
> >> Burgundian
> >> Burgundian Bressan (More than one language?)
>
> >> Brionno-Charolais?
>
> >> Nivernais? (Extinct?)
>
> >> Bourbonnais
>
> >> Berrichon
>
> >> Tourangeau
>
> >> Orleans
>
> >> Gâtinais?
>
> >> Peurcheron
>
> >> Blaisois? (Extinct?)
>
> >> Vendômois? (Extinct?)
>
> >> Beauceron? (Extinct)
>
> >> Etampois? (Extinct)
>
> >> Briard? (Extinct)
>
> >> Solognot? (Extinct?)
>
> >> Norman Mainland
> >> Southern Norman
> >> Cotentin (some monolingual!)
> >> Jersey people
> >> Serquiais
> >> North Guernsey
> >> South Guernsey
>
> >> Gallo
>
> >> Angevin
>
> >> Poitevin (some monolingual!)
> >> Maraîchin
> >> Low Bocain
> >> High Bocain
> >> Southwest Bocain
> >> Marais
> >> Aunisois
> >> Insular Poitevin
>
> >> Saintongeais
>
> >> Meridional French
>
> > Understand.
>
> I live in France, i am French, and i can say to you That: i really
> do not understand (fifty per cent) the French canadians When They
> talk!
> THEY talk of French and Paris and not the "slang" (I Understand 0%)!
> The Canadian picture in France under-Have title!
> Is the slang of French origin in Canada, and Norman IS mixed with
> west of French dialects very diferente standard French (original
> dialects of Paris and Orleans)
Thank you for this. Yes, Canadian French is another language
altogether.
leopold lafeuille
for me undersanding canadian french, more than in the past !
nadagami
> Now less with the Tv,university, who talk like in france ,is easier
> for me undersanding canadian french, more than in the past.
Il faut savoir qu'au Canada la langue française a évolué dans un
contexte fort différent de celui de la France.
Plus particulièrement au Québec, on y parle une langue française dite
populaire, une langue française qui émane du peuple alors qu'en
France, on y est plutôt confronté à une langue française issue de
l'élite.
Enfin, il y est vrai que pour un Français qui débarque au Canada la
langue française qui est en usage ici est difficile de « comprenure ».
nadagami
RVG
Le joual, comme Kerouac ?
--
"Berge ruhn, von Sternen überprächtigt;
aber auch in ihnen flimmert Zeit.
Ach, in meinem wilden Herzen nächtigt
obdachlos die Unvergänglichkeit."
Rainer Maria Rilke
http://rvgmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://www.jamendo.com/fr/user/RVG95
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bestio del Giboudon
>
> Il faut savoir qu'au Canada la langue française a évolué dans un
> contexte fort différent de celui de la France.
>
> Plus particulièrement au Québec, on y parle une langue française dite
> populaire, une langue française qui émane du peuple alors qu'en
> France, on y est plutôt confronté à une langue française issue de
> l'élite.
Ce qui la rend beaucoup plus intéressante que "notre" français
("notre" entre guillemets piei que ma lengo es l'aubernhat del
Giboudan e pas lou frances)
et mieux capable de créer des néologismes alors que nous, nous
reprenons les mots anglais tels quels.
>
> Enfin, il y est vrai que pour un Français qui débarque au Canada la
> langue française qui est en usage ici est difficile de « comprenure ».
>
> nadagami
Maintenant je me suis habitué à l'accent mais au début je n'y
comprenais rien
RVG
> French is thought to be one language, but actually it is many
> languages. In fact, it is at least 61 languages, with another 8
> possible languages.
They're not languages but dialects, like in any other linguistic group.
No language is fully unified, even in small countries. English, Russian,
German, Dutch, etc. have plenty of local variants (think of Bavarian and
Alemanic Swiss for example, or the two variants of Flemish - in France
and Belgium - and Afrikaaner, etc.).
As for Contentin Norman, I doubt that there are still monolingual
speakers today because every French child goes to school up to 16yo
minimum. They may have an accent and speak the patois locally, but the
last monolingual generation were the people born around 1910 who fought
during WW2 - and felt comfortable talking with the Acadian soldiers of
the Canadian army on D-Day. My grand-father for example actually learned
French in his Stalag were he'd been a POW between 1940 and 1945, thanks
to a fellow prisoner who was a teacher and fancied teaching French to
his blue collar comrades to spend their hard times with a positive note.
I always remember my grandpa speaking a mix of French and patois with a
strong Scandinavian accent typical of this area.
RVG
Ca marche dans les deux sens. Un soir sur une terrasse à Québec, que je
prenais un verre avec des amis locaux, j'aperçois un gars qui était dans
le même avion que moi et venait de la même ville de banlieue parisienne.
Évidemment on s'est mis spontanément à parler notre jargon avec cet
accent particulier du Nord-Ouest de Paris (où on ne prononce pas le "v"
par exemple. "Je vais voir ça" devient "J'ais'arsa".), et mes amis
québécois sont restés comme deux ronds de flan: ils ne comprenaient
*rien* à la conversation! Ce n'était pas du "djeunz" d'aujourd'hui, mais
une gouaille des années 70-80 que je parle toujours que je me lâche.
Bob
> Bob wrote:
>
> > French IS Thought to Be one language, purpose Actually It Is Many
> > Languages as possible.
>
> No Language is fully unified, Even in Small Countries. English, Russian,
> German, Dutch in etc.. Have plenty of local variants (think of Bavarian and
> Swiss Alemanic for example, or The Two variants of Flemish - in France
> and Belgium - and Afrikaans, etc.)..
>
> As for Norman Contentin, I Doubt That There are still monolingual
> French speakers today Because Every child goes to school up to 16yo
> minimum. Theys May Have year and speak the patois accent Locally, the goal
> Were the last generation monolingual people born around 1910 Who Fought
> DURING WW2 - and felt comfortable talking with the soldiers of Acadian
> The Canadian Army on D-Day. My grand-father for example Actually Learned
> French history in Stalag Were he'd Been A POW Between 1940 and 1945, thanks
> to a fellow prisoner Who Was a teacher teaching French and fancied to
> His blue collar Comrades To Spend Their hard times with a positive note.
> Always I remember my grandpa speaking a mix of French and patois with a
It is said that in the far north of Cotentin near the coast, there are
older farmworkers on the rural farms who are more or less monolingual
in Cotentin. I mean, that's all they speak. Can they speak French? I
am not so sure. You know, there are old people like this in rural
Asturias. They went to school in Spanish, but then they forgot all of
it and spoke only Asturian. Now they are basically Asturian
monolinguals. Maybe these peasants went to school in French til age
16, then forgot all their French when they went back to the fields.
Éole
> It is said that in the far north of Cotentin near the coast, there are
> older farmworkers on the rural farms who are more or less monolingual
> in Cotentin. I mean, that's all they speak. Can they speak French? I
> am not so sure. You know, there are old people like this in rural
> Asturias. They went to school in Spanish, but then they forgot all of
> it and spoke only Asturian. Now they are basically Asturian
> monolinguals. Maybe these peasants went to school in French til age
> 16, then forgot all their French when they went back to the fields.
newspapers... This is highly improbable.
Un gascon
speakers which has been impossible for 2 centuries. Monolingual
Normand speakers in Cotentin is a fantasy.
Yhi
Definitely impossible nowadays in France.
Yhi
Only a few words of Saintongeais remain nowadays in local French.
Saintonge's French is far over 90 % understandable for speakers of
standard French (though who really speaks standard French except
scholars ?)
It would be a nonsense to call Saintongeais the local variant of
French.
Bob
> On 7 sep, 14:08, Un gascon <un.gas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You also must never have had any contact whatsoever with other French
> > speakers which has been impossible for 2 centuries. Monolingual
> > Normand speakers in Cotentin is a fantasy.
>
but that they didn't speak French well.
There are many older Italians who are more or less monolingual in
their dialects of this or that. They don't speak Standard Italian well
or not at all.
I can recall a few cases. A woman got lost in Venice on a tour. She
contacted police but no one could understand her. They brought
everyone around to listen to her and no one could figure her out. They
figured she must be a foreigner because of her language. Finally
someone figured out what language she was speaking. She was from a
small mountain village near Bergamo, speaking Western Lombard. She
really didn't speak Italian at all.
There was another case where an older woman was at the hospital in the
waiting room. She wanted something, but no one could understand her.
They kept speaking Standard Italian to her, and she couldn't
understand it. Finally, some young guy came in and figured out that
she was speaking some language of upper Molise near Abruzze. Some sort
of weird Neapolitan dialect. She was speaking like the people in his
village. He spoke to her in Standard Italian and her eyes just got
wide. Then he shifted to Molisano and she understood every word he
said.
Plus I have been told that there are a few Catalan monolinguals,
mostly old women.
So there's a few out there.
Fustigator
Sep 2011 03:17:57 -0700 (PDT), in littera
<82ac18d1-de7d-4beb...@k15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> in
foro soc.culture.belgium(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
la première fois où je mis le pied sur la terre québecoise, j'étais en
transit à Mirabelle entre Mexico et Madrid. Ayant une heure et demie à
perdre, j'ai fait quelques emplettes au tax-free. Les vendeuses
comprenaient parfaitement mon français, mais hélas l'inverse n'était
pas le cas, et j'ai dû passer - o horreur- à l'anglais pour recevoir
des réponses que je comprenais.
les fois suivantes , ayant passé plus de temps là-bas sur "ces arpents
de neige", je me suis habitué au parler joual et similaire.
>nadagami
--
Fusti
Eudémonix
Pourquoi alors t'adresses-tu à nous en anglais? NOus sommes sur un
forum francophone ici!
and i can say to you that : really i
> don't understand (fifty per cent) the french canadians when they
> talk !
Ce ne serait pas le cas en ce qui me concerne. Les franco-européens me
comprennent parfaitement lorsque je parle.
> And they talk french of paris and not the "joual" (i understand 0%) !
Il te faudra comprendre une chose importante : Le joual québécois
n'est pas plus abscon que l'argot des Français. La langue commune
demeure le français. Mais nous avons tous notre argot respectif.
> The canadian picture in France have under-title !
Et c'est d'une rare stupidité.
> Joual is the origin of french in canada,
Faux.
`and is normand mixed with
> west french dialects very diferent of standard french (original
> dialects of paris and orleans)
Le Québec a eu le français comme langue officielle bien avant la
France elle-même qui parlait différents dialectes. Ce N'est que sur le
tard que le roi de France (de Paris) imposa sa norme qui était
pourtant celle en vigueur au Québec. Ce n'est que vers le 19e siècle
que votre façon de parler a changé vers ce que vous parlez
aujourd'hui.
Yhi
RVG
Channel Islands, the only place where I've really had conversations in
Norman-French was in Jersey. Guernsey patois as almost dead, perhaps
because it's so different than the other variants that even the Jersians
don't understand it well.
> You know, there are old people like this in rural
> Asturias. They went to school in Spanish, but then they forgot all of
> it and spoke only Asturian. Now they are basically Asturian
> monolinguals. Maybe these peasants went to school in French til age
> 16, then forgot all their French when they went back to the fields.
spend centuries being undetected. The Basques for example were unknown
to the Romans and have only been accidentally discovered by the French
army during the XIth century.
That geographical situation explains how the Euskara language hasn't
changed in almost 20,000 years, making it the oldest language in the
world still spoken. For example the Basques have no words for the
metals. A knife is a meat-cutting stone; an axe is a wood-cutting stone,
etc. They have two verbs for "to be", which is unique in the world as
studied by the linguists.
Éole
tard le Pays Basque. Pampelune (Pompaelo) a été fondé par eux. Le
toponyme Orexa (Gipuzkoa) remonte à "Villa Aureliana", et il n'est pas
le seul à venir du latin.
> That geographical situation explains how the Euskara language hasn't
> changed in almost 20,000 years, making it the oldest language in the
> world still spoken.
Le proto-basque tel que reconstitué par les plus sérieux linguistes
comme Koldo Mitxelena différait sur beaucoup de points du basque
actuel, mais ce qu'il importe de souligner c'est le très grand nombre
d'emprunts du basque au latin: 50 % du vocabulaire, peut-être plus.
> For example the Basques have no words for the
> metals.
"urre".
> A knife is a meat-cutting stone; an axe is a wood-cutting stone,
> etc.
mot "viande". Et il y a un autre mot: "labana". De même, pas d'idée de
"bois" dans "aizkora", "hache".
> They have two verbs for "to be", which is unique in the world as
> studied by the linguists.
Fustigator
11:09:45 -0700 (PDT), in littera
<31f84c0a-0169-4270...@et6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> in
>> Bob a écrit :
>> > On 7 sep, 03:50, RVG<not.h...@themoment.org.invalid> wrote:
>> >> Bob wrote:
>>
>> >>> French IS Thought to Be one language, purpose Actually It Is Many
>> >>> Languages. In Fact, It Is at least 61 languages, with Another 8
>>
>> >> They're not intended languages ??dialects, like in Any Other linguistic group.
européenne.
Détail "somatique" sur les Basques. Chez les Basques de souche le
pourcentage d'individus au groupe sanguin Rhésus négatif est d'environ
30% ce qui est le double du pourcentage dans les autres populations
d'Europe occidentale. Et au plus on va vers l'est au plus petit
devient ce pourcentage. En Asie ce pourcentage est presque nul.
C'est un argument en faveur de la théorie selon laquelle les basques
seraient une des populations les plus anciennes d'Europe
>> For example the Basques have no words for the
>> metals.
>
>Ben si, pourtant. "Fer", par exemple, se dit "burdin", "or" se dit
>"urre".
>
>> A knife is a meat-cutting stone; an axe is a wood-cutting stone,
>> etc.
>
>"Aizto" (couteau) est bien formé sur "pierre", mais ne contient pas le
>mot "viande". Et il y a un autre mot: "labana". De même, pas d'idée de
>"bois" dans "aizkora", "hache".
>
>> They have two verbs for "to be", which is unique in the world as
>> studied by the linguists.
>
>Vous confondez avec l'espagnol.
--
Fusti