teach us to swear
Reykja Sigurdsson
Things are a little boring around here tonight and my co-workers and
I decided that it would be fun to learn how to swear in various forms of
Nordic.
Can you help? Teach us to swear in Danish, Swedish, Finnish, Islandic
and all else.
Thank you for this important cultural exchange! :-)
-rks, et. al.
valt...@kontu.cc.utu.fi
vittu (literally "cunt", in practice "fuck")
saatana (lit. Satan, ip. damn)
perkele (lit. Devil, ip. damn - has even been used by the President of F.)
helvetti (lit. & ip. Hell)
These are the words to use when simply expressing your feelings to inanimate
objects or the world at large. For meaningful communication between intelligent
species, try
painu vittuun (push yourself into a cunt - i.e., fuck off)
ved{ k{teen saatanan kusip{{ (go masturbate you Satan's pisshead - i.e., fuck
off you bloody asshole)
or, if you really want to impress, the wonderfully Finnish and nearly
untranslatable anatomical impossibility
ved{ vittu p{{h{s v{{rinp{in ja l{hde k{velem{{n (pull a (or your) cunt over
your head upside down and start walking - i.e., fuck off).
The last expression has not, to my knowledge, been used by any of our
presidents.
Always glad to further cultural exchange and understanding between different
peoples...
Valtaoja
"Accept the word of one who knows"
Jonne Henrikki Kolima
combinations:
Vittujen kev{t = Spring of cunts(it's unexplainable)
Hevon vitun helvetti = Hell of a horse's cunt(don't ask)
Vittulan v{ki = People of Cuntland
Vitun ikenet = gums of a cunt
Vittu perkele saatana jumalauta helvetti pillu paska perse homo huora
narttu kusiaivo kukkanen = the most common Finnish curse
You should add 'VOI' at the beginning of the curse ; it's like 'OH(like in
oh, hell)'Have fun.
--
-jhk-
Mauri Haikola
valt...@kontu.cc.utu.fi writes:
> vittu (literally "cunt", in practice "fuck")
> saatana (lit. Satan, ip. damn)
> perkele (lit. Devil, ip. damn - has even been used by the President of F.)
> helvetti (lit. & ip. Hell)
Well, when making these comparisons to English swearwords, one
should think about how "serious" the words are.. what I mean is, using
the word damn in English is not as "bad" as using saatana in Finnish.
Same goes for perkele - people who use it give a certain impression of
themselves and that impression is certainly different than the one you
get if you hear some English speaker saying "damn". I would say that
perkele is about as serious a swearword as shit is in English. (By the
way, there's also a Finnish word for shit: paska. That one's
seriousness is about the same.)
President Kekkonen used the expression "Saatanan tunarit" (tunari = a
person who messes things up) when speaking of some political subject
back in the 60s. I dont know of a case that a president would have
said "perkele" in public, but it would be no wonder, especially in
Kekkonen's case.
As for helvetti, people don't use it here as commonly as in English,
e.g. "What the hell is this?" would usually be more precisely
translated "Mita hemmettia tama on?" instead of "Mita helvettia tama
on?". Hemmetti is one of those "light" swearwords that we have quite
a lot - the English counterparts would be words like "blasted" or
"bloody".
> These are the words to use when simply expressing your feelings to inanimate
> objects or the world at large. For meaningful communication between intelligent
> species, try
> painu vittuun (push yourself into a cunt - i.e., fuck off)
> ved{ k{teen saatanan kusip{{ (go masturbate you Satan's pisshead - i.e., fuck
> off you bloody asshole)
These translations are about in the right category, if we think about
the "seriousness" I discussed above.
> or, if you really want to impress, the wonderfully Finnish and nearly
> untranslatable anatomical impossibility
> ved{ vittu p{{h{s v{{rinp{in ja l{hde k{velem{{n (pull a (or your) cunt over
> your head upside down and start walking - i.e., fuck off).
> The last expression has not, to my knowledge, been used by any of our
> presidents.
To my knowledge, not by any other people either. :-)
These long swearing sentences are generally not very common in
Finnish.
> Always glad to further cultural exchange and understanding between different
> peoples...
Right. Back when I was at school, our English teacher taught us three
English swearwords: bloody, blasted and damn. Somehow I had already at
that time a feeling that those were not the most outrageous words you
could say in that language...
Mauri
Bryn Owren
>In article <807...@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rey...@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson) writes:
>>Well, in addition to formerly mentioned examples, here's a few neat
> combinations:
>
> Vittujen kev{t = Spring of cunts(it's unexplainable)
> Hevon vitun helvetti = Hell of a horse's cunt(don't ask)
> Vittulan v{ki = People of Cuntland
> Vitun ikenet = gums of a cunt
> Vittu perkele saatana jumalauta helvetti pillu paska perse homo huora
> narttu kusiaivo kukkanen = the most common Finnish curse
>
How extraordinarily advanced! I wonder if these expressions tell us
something about Finns in general. Well, I guess we all have our
limitations :-).
>
>--
> -jhk-
Bryn
Heikki Suopanki
Wow, finally an interesting thread in this newsgroup! :)
> Vittujen kev{t = Spring of cunts(it's unexplainable)
> Hevon vitun helvetti = Hell of a horse's cunt(don't ask)
> Vittulan v{ki = People of Cuntland
> Vitun ikenet = gums of a cunt
There are many many variations...
Almost any word after "vitun" will do....like:
vitun posket = cheeks of a cunt
vitun vimpaimet = gadgets of a cunt
hevon vitun humppa = humppa of a horse's cunt (humppa is a music and
dance style, preferred
by older people )
has anybody mentioned:
jumalauta = (Jumala auta) god help!
All of these is normally used with "voi" as somebody already mentioned.
voi saatanan vittu
-Heikki
Torkel Franzen
(Heikki Suopanki) writes:
>Wow, finally an interesting thread in this newsgroup! :)
Are you by any chance kidding us? Is there any subject more pointless
or boring than that of Finnish swearng?
Juha Siltanen
Are you by any chance kidding us? Is there any subject more pointless
or boring than that of Finnish swearng?
Yep, Swedish swearing ;-)
Heikki Suopanki
>Wow, finally an interesting thread in this newsgroup! :)
Torkel> Are you by any chance kidding us? Is there any subject more pointless
Torkel> or boring than that of Finnish swearng?
Swedish swearing perhaps?
-Heikki
Ari Tapio Lampinen
>
> Vittujen kev{t = Spring of cunts(it's unexplainable)
> Hevon vitun helvetti = Hell of a horse's cunt(don't ask)
> Vittulan v{ki = People of Cuntland
> Vitun ikenet = gums of a cunt
> Vittu perkele saatana jumalauta helvetti pillu paska perse homo huora
> narttu kusiaivo kukkanen = the most common Finnish curse
>
>
> You should add 'VOI' at the beginning of the curse ; it's like 'OH(like in
> oh, hell)'Have fun.
>
How nice language flowers!
Bring nostalgic memories!
PS. kukka = flower in Finnish = cunt in Venezuelan Spanish
Antti Karttunen
I recently saw an article in Helsingin Sanomat about a new way to teach
adjectives, nouns and verbs for Swedish teenagers. Various swearing words
were used as a help. Like that you can add "skit-" only to certain class
of words, etc. If anybody remembers this one, could you elaborate?
(Maybe it was originally from some local paper, maybe near Malm|.
From "T{{ll{ Juutinrauma" article in Helsingin Sanomat.)
--
Antti Karttunen -- kar...@mits.mdata.fi -- !?
Antti Karttunen
>
Perkele comes from the Latvian-Lithuanian god (I don't remeber which one,
one of the big ones anyway), which in Lithuanian is called "Perkunas".
(In Latvian something similar). So I would guess that it has come via
Estonia to Finland. (Any Estonians there, could you elaborate?)
I don't know how the church managed to change its meaning to "Devil",
and whether "piru" (also "devil") is of the same origin.
Word "perkele" has something almost patriotic feeling in it, which is
hard to explain for the foreigners. (And it should be pronounced
with very strong R for greater effect, i.e. "peRRRkele!")
However, it's usual for priests to use words like "saatana",
"perkele" and "helvetti" when they are used for the religious concepts,
not as swearing words. (Sometimes it may sound weird, however ;-)
>
>
>Valtaoja
Jyrki Kimmel
Well, at least for a change, the discussion is about equal to my
intellectual capability. The funny part in this thread is that
these swearword barrages are actually in use. I used to live in an
apartment building, where we could hear the somewhat derelict
alcoholic downstairs shouting at his wife (late at night):
"Tuo t{nne se vittus saatanan huora perkele!", i.e. lit.:
"Bring your cunt over here, you satan's whore, devil!"
It must have been love at first sight...
--
Jyrki Kimmel, VTT Medical Engineering Laboratory kim...@cortex.sai.vtt.fi
signature in proposal in peer review phase (PPRP). Proposed motto:
"El{m{ on kivaa!" ("Life is fun!") -Kaisa-Maria, age 3
Torkel Franzen
>I recently saw an article in Helsingin Sanomat about a new way to teach
>adjectives, nouns and verbs for Swedish teenagers. Various swearing words
>were used as a help. Like that you can add "skit-" only to certain class
>of words, etc.
This was actually pretty funny. As I recall, nouns were defined as
words to which you can append "fan" or "javel" - thus, gubbfan, biljavel, etc.
Adjectives are words that you can prefix with "skit" - skitfin, skitdum,
and so on. I don't recall how verbs were defined.
Einar Indridason
Here in Iceland, we associate cursing mostly with the "Bad place below"
(i.e. hell) and we use word like:
Helviti, anskoti, djofull, bolvadur, ...
Then we add some "general" curses, like: idiot, thorskur, asni, faviti,
...
Some people add "nasty" or "bad" words from the acriculture or the
fisherman fields.
String that together and you might get something like:
"Anskotans, helvitis, djofulsins, marg-heilaskadadur og yfirvaltadur
fullkominn faviti."
(I won't attempt to translate that :-)
Torkel Franzen
>Swedish swearing perhaps?
You may well be right. However, there is in fact a funny Swedish
song consisting of nothing but curses and insults, sung barbershop
style - I am of course referring to... what's its name. Anyway,
much more fun than articles about swearing.
The topic of cursing in Swedish was discussed a couple of years ago.
I held then, and still do, that the attempt to introduce into Swedish
the sexually based swearing of English and other languages is pathetic,
a piece of idiocy on the order of "ha en trevlig dag".
Tor Lillqvist
The topic of cursing in Swedish was discussed a couple of years ago.
I held then, and still do, that the attempt to introduce into Swedish
the sexually based swearing of English and other languages is pathetic,
a piece of idiocy on the order of "ha en trevlig dag".
In the Swedish that is spoken in Finland, sexually based swearing is
more common. At least when I was young, it was normal to hear guys
swear over something or somebody saying "fittans xxx" for some object
or person xxx. This seems to be directly based on the Finnish way of
saying "vitun xxx", but I doubt those who used the saying were aware
of that. "Kyss fittan" or "kyss ro"ven" ("kiss (my/your?) cunt/ass")
was also common. I don't really know how the language has developed
since then...
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
Kent Sandvik
> valt...@kontu.cc.utu.fi writes:
> > vittu (literally "cunt", in practice "fuck")
> > saatana (lit. Satan, ip. damn)
> > perkele (lit. Devil, ip. damn - has even been used by the President of F.)
> > helvetti (lit. & ip. Hell)
[Disclaimer, I have Finnish blood in my veins and I'm not ashamed of my
cultural background].
Looking at all the various Finnish dirty words presented, I personally
believe that there are very few languages on this planet which have
more powerful swearwords than Finnish. If we had a possibility to
add sound to news entries each one would realize the powerfullness
behind a Finnish swearword - the effect is quite dramatic.
As a side note, I now and then demonstrate the use of these words for
my American colleges, and they are quite astounded and scared after
the presentation. No wonder.
--
Cheers, Kent
Tomas Eriksson
I take it that Herr Franzen hasn't been reading the postings of Lyle
Davis... :-) * 1/2
Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson tom...@physchem.kth.se
Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Anders Engwall
>In article <1992May21.0...@mits.mdata.fi> kar...@mits.mdata.fi
Neither do I. However, if we follow the above definitions, confusion may
arise when we encounter words like "skitst|vel", "skitgubbe", etc.
Btw, I think there was some way of distinguishing between adjectives
and adverbs too.
--
Anders Engwall Email: Anders....@eua.ericsson.se
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB Voice: +46 8 727 3893
"Alvsj"o, Sweden Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
Anders Engwall
>In article <SUOPANKI.92...@zombie.oulu.fi> suop...@zombie.oulu.fi
>(Heikki Suopanki) writes:
> >Swedish swearing perhaps?
> You may well be right. However, there is in fact a funny Swedish
>song consisting of nothing but curses and insults, sung barbershop
>style - I am of course referring to... what's its name.
Well, it's "Svordomsvisan" by Magnus & Brasse, of course! Off their LP
"Varning F|r Barn", I think. Heck, I used to know most of the lyrics,
but, alas, only fragments remain today:
"Slashas! Vidriga as! Skitst|vel och bandit!..."
> The topic of cursing in Swedish was discussed a couple of years ago.
>I held then, and still do, that the attempt to introduce into Swedish
>the sexually based swearing of English and other languages is pathetic,
>a piece of idiocy on the order of "ha en trevlig dag".
Attempt? You mean there's a Sexually Based Swearing Conspiracy out
there? And they're out get us!!?? KUKEN OCKS]! :-)
Btw, it's "ha en bra dag". And nothing sounds *that* stupid.
Bjorn Hell Larsen
In article <1992May21....@leland.Stanford.EDU> lamp...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ari Tapio Lampinen) writes:
>
> PS. kukka = flower in Finnish = cunt in Venezuelan Spanish
>
Interesting.
kukk = penis in (vulgar) Norwegian
bjorn
Jonne Henrikki Kolima
--
-jhk-
Antti Karttunen
>In the Swedish that is spoken in Finland, sexually based swearing is
>more common. At least when I was young, it was normal to hear guys
>swear over something or somebody saying "fittans xxx" for some object
>or person xxx. This seems to be directly based on the Finnish way of
>saying "vitun xxx", but I doubt those who used the saying were aware
>of that. "Kyss fittan" or "kyss ro"ven" ("kiss (my/your?) cunt/ass")
>was also common. I don't really know how the language has developed
>since then...
>--
>Tor Lillqvist,
>working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
BTW, where that word "vittu"/"fittan" comes originally? From
Scandinavian or Fenno-Ugrian languages? If it comes from latter
languages and is borrowed to Swedish from Finnish and not vice-versa,
then is it used in Riksvenska (Swedish spoken in Sweden) at all?
Some years ago one well known doctor publicly proposed here that
words "kulli" and "pillu" were adopted as official medical terms
instead of foreign "penis" and "vulva". Well, she got somewhat mixed
responses... ("Pillu" comes from Estonian "pilu" which means simply
"cleft" there, at least so I have heard).
And then a quote from Jari Halonen, who once was a member of the
notorious "Jumalan teatteri" (= "God's theatre"), a group of
four men which some years ago had some, eh, "extraordinary" acts.
(But their descriptions suit better to the alt.tasteless than here ;-)
(I remember that they visited Stockholm too, shocking some Swedes.)
Anyway, here's the quote:
"Euroopassa me tulemme olemaan kulttuurikansana eritt{in merkitt{v{.
Saksalaiset pit{v{t kiinni nahkahousuistaan, amerikkalaiset Scorsesestaan
ja englantilaiset teenjuonnistaan - meid{n on pidett{v{ kiinni omasta
jutustamme. Se on se ett{ kiroillaan perkeleesti ja ly|d{{n kuokkaa
suohon."
My translation:
"In Europe we will be very remarkable culture nation. Germans stick to
their leather trousers, Americans to their Scorsese, and Englishmen to
their tea - we have to keep our own thing. It is it that we swear
perkeleesti and strike the hoe into the bog."
(Note: "perkeleesti" is adverb form of the "perkele", and could be
translated "like hell". "Ly|d{ kuokkaa suohon" is the phrase which
is difficult to explain, but it's someway related to that mythical "sisu".)
;--)
Markku Kolkka
In article <1992May22.0...@mits.mdata.fi> kar...@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen) writes:
>"In Europe we will be very remarkable culture nation. Germans stick to
>their leather trousers, Americans to their Scorsese, and Englishmen to
>their tea - we have to keep our own thing. It is it that we swear
>perkeleesti and strike the hoe into the bog."
>
>(Note: "perkeleesti" is adverb form of the "perkele", and could be
>translated "like hell". "Ly|d{ kuokkaa suohon" is the phrase which
>is difficult to explain, but it's someway related to that mythical "sisu".)
Actually, it comes from the opening of the V{in| Linna's
novel "T{{ll{ Pohjant{hden alla}: "Alussa oli suo, kuokka - ja Jussi".
Translated: "In the beginning there was the bog, a hoe - and Jussi".
I think this was parodied in some old movie (by Spede Pasanen ?), with
"Jussi" up to his knees in a wet bog, swinging a hoe and swearing
continuously.
--
Markku Kolkka
mk5...@cc.tut.fi
Lyle Davis
I have been known to utter a curse word upon occasion. The simple
words of damn and hell, I suppose, creep in with some regularity. However,
"fuck," "cunt", "shit". . .some of the more esoterc swear words - neither I
nor my associates tend to use very much. The word "cunt" is particularly
offensive to me. Don't really know why.
I suspect the amount of swearing has something to do with the age of
the individuals involved. I notice that my sons and their colleagues tend to
swear more than people of my age (they are mid to late 20's; an age bracket I
suspect that we have much of here on the net.)
I suppose in polite society o tends to swear more when one gets
inebriated or angry. Or both.
One of the more comical incidences of swearing that I can recall goes
back to 1957 or 1958. Russia had just launched Sputnik. I was in the Army at
the time, serving at Ft. Sam Houston, Texas near San Antonio. I, like several
of my barracksmates, were outside of our barracks looking at the sky for the
little glimmering star known as Sputnick. Three black soldiers casually
walked down the main street, and called to me. . ."hey, man. . .you seen the
mutherfucking thing yet?"
(The black culture tends to use the term "motherfuckeras an adjective
for just about anything. It is said that one reason you don't find more
black women becoming nuns is that they have a very hard time saying "Mother
Superior".)
UUCP: {nosc, ucsd}!crash!ipars!pnet05!lyled
ARPA: ipars!pnet05!ly...@nosc.mil
INET: ly...@pnet05.cts.com
Steinar Bang
Ikkje faen! The way it is pronounced (long vowel sound) tells us that
it should be spelled "kuk", not "kukk". One example of the usage would
be my native nordlending dialect's favorite descriptive swearword:
"Haestkuk!"
- Steinar
"Donde esta' el cartucho de mi materna?"
Ari Tapio Lampinen
(premiere today). About every 10th word is "fuck". ;-}
-Ari
PS. Poor movie in other respects, too.
Reykja Sigurdsson
> "Tuo t{nne se vittus saatanan huora perkele!", i.e. lit.:
> "Bring your cunt over here, you satan's whore, devil!"
>
> It must have been love at first sight...
It seems to me to be a rather a morbid fascination with the female
anatomy. Is there a comparable phrase for males? How about a word for
"prick" or "dick". "Balls"?
-reykjavik
Kent Sandvik
> (premiere today). About every 10th word is "fuck". ;-}
Most current day American movies have billions of bad words, and
it's extremely annoying to watch the edited one on TV with billions
of 'beeps' :-).
--
Cheers, Kent
PS: Yes, didn't like Alien 3 either, too many chefs and no decent soup.
Kent Sandvik
writes:
> Actually, it comes from the opening of the V{in| Linna's
> novel "T{{ll{ Pohjant{hden alla}: "Alussa oli suo, kuokka - ja Jussi".
> Translated: "In the beginning there was the bog, a hoe - and Jussi".
>
> I think this was parodied in some old movie (by Spede Pasanen ?), with
> "Jussi" up to his knees in a wet bog, swinging a hoe and swearing
> continuously.
Yes, it's one of the really early Speded movies, the ones that actually
had substance and humor (before he started with these r($%#$%#$% beep
Turhapuro movies).
The only problem is that Spede Pasanen - as a very emotional artist -
destroyed most of his early day movies because he had to pay a lot
of taxes and didn't get any help from the state (an important issue
when making movies in Nordic countries).
I still miss those 'wild west' movies done in dirty sand mines...
--
Cheers, Kent
Heikki Suopanki
Kent> The only problem is that Spede Pasanen - as a very emotional artist -
Kent> destroyed most of his early day movies because he had to pay a lot
Kent> of taxes and didn't get any help from the state (an important issue
Kent> when making movies in Nordic countries).
He didn't really destroy those movies (he isn't stupid). He destroyed
some film material with his axe, but it was only some useless stuff,
not the copies of his early films. The pictures of him with his axe
were rather hilarious (I think he even did it on TV), but it was only
a marketing ploy.
Kent> I still miss those 'wild west' movies done in dirty sand mines...
Yeah, his first movies are really funny! Well, maybe we'll find the
value of the Turhapuro movies after he is dead.
-Heikki
Paul Olav Tvete stipendiat
|> Looking at all the various Finnish dirty words presented, I personally
|> believe that there are very few languages on this planet which have
|> more powerful swearwords than Finnish. If we had a possibility to
|> add sound to news entries each one would realize the powerfullness
|> behind a Finnish swearword - the effect is quite dramatic.
|>
|> As a side note, I now and then demonstrate the use of these words for
|> my American colleges, and they are quite astounded and scared after
|> the presentation. No wonder.
|> --
|> Cheers, Kent
Try it with the Finnish equivalent of "I love you." As far as I can
remember, it sounds rather hostile if you don't know what it means.
There's always the old joke about the Norwegian who won a swearing contest
in the US (where else) by saying: "Hardanger Sunnhordalandske Dampskipselskap"
(Of course it has to be told in a western dialect.)
--
Paul Olav Tvete; pa...@ii.uib.no ---- Ein # kan'kje vara evig, veit du. ----
Kent Sandvik
Tvete stipendiat) writes:
> In article <25...@goofy.Apple.COM>, ks...@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
> |> As a side note, I now and then demonstrate the use of these words for
> |> my American colleges, and they are quite astounded and scared after
> |> the presentation. No wonder.
> |> --
> |> Cheers, Kent
> Try it with the Finnish equivalent of "I love you." As far as I can
> remember, it sounds rather hostile if you don't know what it means.
You're right, it sounds like Klingon, "Mina RRRRAKASSSTAN SINUA".
..after which the male person rips off the lover lip of the poor
female... *)
--
Cheers, Kent
*)this is *NOT* a Finnish custom
Lee Choquette
I'm not sure of the spelling. It's an expression my finlandssvenska mother
uses on certain occasions. I've figured out the others, like ``permanto,''
evidently a euphemism for ``perkele.'' Might ``jummi jammi'' have something to
do with ``Jumala''?
Also, I have been told that ``haist kukkanen'' is short for ``go smell a flower
that a cow ate yesterday,'' but from articles in this newsgroup the past few
days it seems that ``kukkanen'' might refer to ``kukk.'' Plausible?
I apologize for any spelling mistakes. I am merely transcribing what I have
heard, and I don't speak Finnish.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . Lee Choquette . . . . . . . . Du tycker du {r vacker . . . . . .
. . u-lc...@peruvian.utah.edu. . . . men det tycker inte jag . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -- Swedish love song . . . . . .
Petri Ojala
> Could someone tell me what ``jummi jammi'' means?
It's quite new way impress that something is (lightly) "suprising".
It's not really a swear word. It's also used in one student song
quite frequently: "Jummi jammi jummi jammi vittu joo, jummi jammi
jummi jammi vittu joo, jummi jammi jummi jammi jummi jammi jummi
jammi, juumi jammi vittu joo-o-o." ;-)
> I've figured out the others, like ``permanto,'' evidently a euphemism
> for ``perkele.''
'Permanto' is floor (for example in cinemas). It can also be used as
a very light swear word, "Voi permanto!". Maybe quite equivalent
to polite "Damn it!". (It might have roots in 'Perkele')
Petri
Tom Kovar
> Perkele comes from the Latvian-Lithuanian god (I don't remeber which one,
> one of the big ones anyway), which in Lithuanian is called "Perkunas".
> (In Latvian something similar). So I would guess that it has come via
> Estonia to Finland. (Any Estonians there, could you elaborate?)
> I don't know how the church managed to change its meaning to "Devil",
> and whether "piru" (also "devil") is of the same origin.
Well, I find this extremely interesting. There are very few connections
btw. the ugrofinnish and indo-european languages, but anyhow: the highest
god of the Slavonic tribes, the King of the Gods and the God of the Thunder,
was called Perun (this is the Czech way of writing it, but in other slavonic
languages it is very similar; the pronunciation is sth. like [peroon]).
I am pretty sure there must be some connection here, which I find very
surprising...
Tom
Joni Jarvenkyla
>As for helvetti, people don't use it here as commonly as in English,
>e.g. "What the hell is this?" would usually be more precisely
>translated "Mita hemmettia tama on?" instead of "Mita helvettia tama
>on?". Hemmetti is one of those "light" swearwords that we have quite
>a lot - the English counterparts would be words like "blasted" or
>"bloody".
What the hell is this = mik{ vittu t{{ on?
at least in Helsinki.
Vittu is as multi-purpose as fuck in English. You can use it just about
anywhere!
Vitun hieno p{iv{ t{n{{n = what a wonderful day it is
or sarcastically said on a bad day
Mit{ vittuu teht{is? = what shall we do
Ihan vitullisen makee auto = a very fancy car indeed
And so on.
--
j...@mits.mdata.fi Mind Heart No Me
j...@niksula.hut.fi Difference Destruction Death You
Joni Jarvenkyla
Voi perse = my ass
Talking about fake swearing:
Voi nakki = (lit) oh sausage!
Emma Williams
Ireland "guys" refers to girls as well.It's just a colloquial expression
so no flames please :-)
I notice that all the swear words and expressions presently abounding are
mainly finnish. Here's a great one from the Jutland peninsula in
Denmark:-
"For Satan (da) i hede hule pestbefaengte syfilisinficerede svovl-
dampende aids ramte Helvede!"
You can, of course, like the other es we've seen, play around with it and
create longer or shorter expressions. I'd welcome any more "colourful"
locutions that anyone can come up with.Tak skal I ha'
~
Lars Peter Fischer
Emma> Here's a great one from the Jutland peninsula in
Emma> Denmark:-
Emma> "For Satan (da) i hede hule pestbefaengte syfilisinficerede svovl-
Emma> dampende aids ramte Helvede!"
Hmm, I'd make it even stronger, like "Saa sgu da I hele hule
Hellerup". That "Hellerup" thing about the worst thing I can imagine,
unless you'd completely over the top with "Hva'ba'?? Ja, man sku
krafaedemig tro du var amerikaner".
/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fis...@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things. -- Calvin
Antti Leino
> Perkele comes from the Latvian-Lithuanian god (I don't remeber which one,
> one of the big ones anyway), which in Lithuanian is called "Perkunas".
> (In Latvian something similar). So I would guess that it has come via
> Estonia to Finland. (Any Estonians there, could you elaborate?)
> I don't know how the church managed to change its meaning to "Devil",
Perkunas was the Baltic god of thunder. In Finnish, however, his name
seems to have been a swear word from the beginning. The current theory
is that this use is the reason why Michael Agricola began using Perkele
as a name for the Devil in his New Testament. Ironically, last winter
Perkele was cathegorically changed to Sielunvihollinen 'The Adversary'
(or something equally sterile) in the new translation of the Bible
because 'people have begun to use it as a swear word'.
--
Antti Leino "The notion of code-switching
University of Helsinki Computing Centre presupposes that there are
Antti...@Helsinki.FI codes to switch."
Antti Karttunen
>Hi there all you guys out on the network (I'm not being sexist...In
>Ireland "guys" refers to girls as well.It's just a colloquial expression
>so no flames please :-)
>I notice that all the swear words and expressions presently abounding are
Maybe that tells something from us, and maybe it tells something from
other people of Nordic countries (of course, I mean swedes ;-)
>Here's a great one from the Jutland peninsula in
>Denmark:-
>"For Satan (da) i hede hule pestbefaengte syfilisinficerede svovl-
>dampende aids ramte Helvede!" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There's a similar word in Finnish, "kuppanen" (= syfilitic), which I
find pleasurable one to use, because it's not so common and makes stronger
effect when used.
Michael Qvortrup
>[...]
>Actually, nothing. Only thing that message tells us
>is that I shouldn't post stupid articles at 4:12 am, Sunday morning,
>after drinking moderate amounts of some excessively taxed drinks.
>(BTW, I wonder how many percents of the articles of Usenet are written
>while author is intoxicated by one substance or another ;-)
Judged from the amount of Finnish swearing going on at the moment, I
would say that most of the Finns posting at the moment seem to be
severely intoxicated at the time of posting.
It is at least the only time when I will use such language :-)
Greetings,
--Mike
--
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup A Dane ETH, Zuerich
e-mail : qvor...@inf.ethz.ch abroad Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen / Inst. of Scientific Computation
Yngve Koehler Raustein
the word is spelled ``kukk'' -- I have no idea why...
Yngve
>
>"Donde esta' el cartucho de mi materna?"
No se...
--
Yngve K. Raustein | ``We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh
362 Memorial Drive | Cornish ram's bladder, emptied, steamed,
Cambridge, MA 02139 | flavoured with sesame seeds whipped into a
617-225-7343 | fondue and garnished with lark's vomit.''
mo...@polari.com
In article <1992May23.0...@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
lamp...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ari Tapio Lampinen) writes:
>
>> A good lesson for English swearing is the new Alien 3 movie
>> (premiere today). About every 10th word is "fuck". ;-}
>
If you can say 'fuck' in english you have learned more than the favorite
curse, you have learned half the language!
Just add some prepositions,nouns,and adjectives, and you are fluent!
No other verbs are necessary, as the trained english speaker can
deduce your meaning by context.
>Most current day American movies have billions of bad words, and
>it's extremely annoying to watch the edited one on TV with billions
>of 'beeps' :-).
Just shout 'fuck' at every beep to obtain the correct translation.
Translated:
Just fuck 'fuck' at every beep to fuck the correct translation.
See how easy it is?
>--
> Cheers, Kent
>
>PS: Yes, didn't like Alien 3 either, too many chefs and no decent soup.
Jim
>
>
Antti Karttunen
find the subject matter interesting.)
In article <1992May30....@klaava.Helsinki.FI> le...@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Antti Leino) writes:
>In <1992May21.0...@mits.mdata.fi> kar...@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen) writes:
>
>> Perkele comes from the Latvian-Lithuanian god (I don't remeber which one,
>> one of the big ones anyway), which in Lithuanian is called "Perkunas".
>> (In Latvian something similar). So I would guess that it has come via
>> Estonia to Finland. (Any Estonians there, could you elaborate?)
>> I don't know how the church managed to change its meaning to "Devil",
>> and whether "piru" (also "devil") is of the same origin.
>
>Perkunas was the Baltic god of thunder. In Finnish, however, his name
>seems to have been a swear word from the beginning. The current theory
>is that this use is the reason why Michael Agricola began using Perkele
>as a name for the Devil in his New Testament. Ironically, last winter
>Perkele was cathegorically changed to Sielunvihollinen 'The Adversary'
>(or something equally sterile) in the new translation of the Bible
>because 'people have begun to use it as a swear word'.
>
>--
>Antti Leino "The notion of code-switching
>University of Helsinki Computing Centre presupposes that there are
>Antti...@Helsinki.FI codes to switch."
t...@bim.itc.univie.ac.at (Tom Kovar) writes:
> Well, I find this extremely interesting. There are very few connections
>btw. the ugrofinnish and indo-european languages, but anyhow: the highest
>god of the Slavonic tribes, the King of the Gods and the God of the Thunder,
>was called Perun (this is the Czech way of writing it, but in other slavonic
>languages it is very similar; the pronunciation is sth. like [peroon]).
>I am pretty sure there must be some connection here, which I find very
>surprising...
> Tom
>
Okay, here is an article about the Baltic Pantheon, which I shamelessly
copied from the Encyclopedia Britannica:
Excerpt from the "Baltic Religion" article of the
Encyclopedia Britannica.
Transcription conventions.
I have used the following ascii characters _before_ the
corresponding letter to indicate various Baltic letters
not found from ascii:
_ before a vowel. Should be macron, and indicates the
_
long vowel. E.g. "m_ate" should be "mate".
. before an "e" is the Lithuanian e with dot above it.
^ before a letter, should be v above it. E.g. ^Zem.epatis
should be: v .
Zemepatis
, before a letter should be below it.
The gods. Dievs. The Baltic words Latvian dievs, Lithuanian
dievas, and Old Prussian deivas are etymologically related to
the Indo-European deiuos; among others, the Greek Zeus is
derived from the same root. It originally meant the physical
sky, but already in Old Indian and other religions the sky
became personified as an anthropomorphic deity. Dievs, the
pre-Christian Baltic name for god, was used by Christian
missionaries (and still is) to denote the Christian God.
The etymology of the word indicates that the Balts preserved
its oldest forms, which is also true of the functions and
attributes of the personified Baltic sky god Dievs, who lives
on his farmstead on the sky mountain but does not participate
in the work of the farm. Importantly, Dievs is a bridegroom
who rides together with the other gods to a sky wedding in
which his bride is Saule. Dievs' family is later development;
in the family, Dieva d_eli (God's Sons) play the primary role.
Thus Dievs is pictured as the father of a family of sky gods.
Besides such anthropomorphic characteristics, another
characteristic that gives Dievs a universal significance may
be observed: he appears as the creator of order in the world
on the one hand, and as the judge and guardian of moral law
on the other. From time to time he leaves the sky mountain and
actively takes part in the everyday life of the farmers below.
His participation in various yearly festivals is vividly
described. In spite of this, the Baltic Dievs is similar to the
Old Indian Dyaus, the Greek Zeus, and other personifications of
the sky. Such divinities have a tendency, in comparison with
other gods of their religions, to recede into a secondary role.
P_erkons. In Baltic, as in other Indo-European religions,
there is, in addition to Dievs, the Thunderer (Latvian P_erkons,
Lithuanian Perk_unas) with quite specific functions. P_erkons
is described in the oldest chronicles and in poetic and epic
folklore, but, though he is a primary divinity there is no
reason to believe that he is the main god. His abode is in the
sky, and, like Dievs, he sometimes descends from the sky
mountain. He has two main characteristics. First, he is a
mighty warrior, metaphorically described as the sky smith,
and the scourge of evil. His role as adversary of the devil
and other evil spirits is of secondary importance and has been
formed to a great extent under the influence of Christian
syncretism. Secondly, he is a fertility god, and he controls
the rain, an important event in the life of farmers. Various
sacrifices were made to him in periods of drought as well as
in times of sickness and plague. No other god occupied a place
of such importance at the farmer's table during festivals,
especially in the fall at harvest time. Like the other sky
gods, he also has a family. Even though his daughters are
mentioned occassionally, originally he had only sons, and
myths depicting sky weddings portray his role vividly, as a
bridegroom and as the father in his sons' weddings.
Saule. The sun, Saule, occupies the central place in the
pantheon of Baltic gods. The divinity of the sun has been
recognized all over the world, and the Balts were no exception.
The Baltic description of the sun as divinity is so complete
and specific that it was one of the first to be studied by
scholars. Of greatest importance is the similarity in both
functions and attributes of Saule and the ancient Indian god
S_urya. Similarities between the two gods are so great that,
were not the two peoples separated by several thousand miles
and several millennia, direct contact between them would be
indicated instead of only a common origin.
The representation of Saule is dualistic in that she is
depicted as a mother on one hand, and a daughter on the other.
Her attributes are described according to the role she plays.
As a daughter she is mentioned only when she is a bride to the
other sky gods. But as her daughters frequently are in the same
role, it is difficult to differentiate bteween them. As a mother,
however, she is depicted much more extensively and completely.
Her farmstead on the sky mountain borders that of Dievs, and
both Dieva d_eli and Saules meitas (Daughters of the Sun) play
and work together. Sometimes Dievs and Saule become enraged at
each other because of their respective children, as, for example,
when Dieva d_eli break the rings of Saules meitas or when Saules
meitas shatter the swords of Dieva d_eli. Their enmity lasts
three days, which some scholars explain through natural
phenomena; i.e., the three days before the new moon when Dievs,
a substitute for the moon, is not visible.
That Saule, richly described in mythology, also had a cult
devoted to her is suggested by many hymns in her honour. They
contain either expressions of thanks for her bounty or prayers
seeking her aid, not only in relation to agriculture but to life
in general. In agriculture Saule is a sanctifier of the fertility
of the fields; in the life of the individual she is a typical
sky goddess, interfering in her omniscience. She has human moral
characteristics and punishes the immoral and aids the suffering.
Though the question of where Saule's places of worship were
located is not solved, the occassions for rituals pertaining to
Saule have been definitely established, the most important of
which was the summer solstice. Besides song, recitative, and
dance, a central place in the ceremonies was occupied by a
ritual meal, at which cheese and a drink brewed with honey
(later beer) were consumed.
M_eness. M_eness, the moon, also belongs to the sky pantheon.
Detailed analysis only recently has shown that he has a role as
a war god in Baltic religion. Such a role is indicated not only
by his dress and accoutrements but especially by his weapons
and expressions used in times of war. The influence of
syncretism, however, has erased the outlines of his
characteristics so far as to make a description of his role and
any cult he may have had very difficult. The sky wedding myths
furnish a somewhat more complete picture in which he is
represented as a conflict-creating rival suitor of Auseklis
(the Morning Star).
Auseklis, his sons, Dieva d_eli, and Saules meitas form a
separate group of divinities. Although they are mentioned in
the sky myths, they have remained only as personifications of
natural phenomena, characterized by the most beautiful metaphors.
It is notable that a common characteristic of the sky gods,
and, in fact, of all Baltic divinites, is the express tendency
for each to have a family.
All the divinities mentioned above are closely associated with
horses: they either ride or are drawn in chariots across the sky
mountain and arrive on earth in the same fashion. The number of
horses is indeterminate but usually varies from two to five or
more. This trait also confirms the close ties between Baltic and
Indo-Iranian religions.
Although males form the majority of the sky gods, the chthonic
(underworld) divinities are mostly female. In both Latvian and
Lithuanian religions the earth is personified and called Earth
Mother (Latvian Zemes m_ate, Lithuanian ^Zemyna). But the
Lithuanians also have ^Zem.epatis, Earth Master. Latvians in
general refer to mothers, Lithuanians to masters. Zemes m_ate
is the only deity in addition to Dievs who is originally
responsible for human welfare. Based on the writings of the
Roman historian Tacitus, it has been asserted that she is the
mother of the other gods, but there is no support for this view
in other sources. Under the influence of Christian-pagan
syncretism, the Virgin Mary has assumed some of the functions
of Zemes m_ate. Furthermore, some of these functions have been
acquired and differentiated by various other later divinities,
who, however, have not lost their original chthonic character.
Thus, a deity of the dead has developed from Zemes m_ate, called
in Latvian Smil^su m_ate (Mother of the Sands), Kapu m_ate
(Mother of the Graves), and Ve,lu m_ate (Mother of the Ghosts).
Libations and sacrifices were offered to Zemes m_ate. Such
rituals were also performed in connection with the other
divinities at a later stage of development. The fertility of
the fields is also guaranteed by Jumis, who is symbolized by a
double head of grain, and by various mothers, such as Lauka m_ate
(Mother of the Fields), Linu m_ate (Mother of the Flax), and
Mie^za m_ate (Mother of the Barley).
Forest and agricultural deities. A forest divinity, common to
all Baltic peoples, is called in Latvian Me^za m_ate (Mother of
the Forest, Lithuanian Medein.e). She again has been further
differentiated into other divinities, or rather she was given
metaphorical appellations with no mythological significance,
such as Kr_umu m_ate (Mother of the Bushes), Lazdu m_ate
(Mother of the Hazels), Lapu m_ate (Mother of the Leaves),
Ziedu m_ate (Mother of the Blossoms), and even S_e,nu m_ate
(Mother of the Mushrooms). Forest animals are ruled by the
Lithuanian Zv.erin.e opposed to the Latvian Me^za m_ate.
The safety and welfare of the farmer's house is cared for
by the Latvian M_ajas gars (Spirit of the House; Lithuanian
Kaukas), which lives in the hearth. Similarly, other farm
buildings have their own patrons - Latvian Pirts m_ate (Mother
of the Bathhouse), Rijas m_ate (Mother of the Threshing House);
Lithuanian Gabjauja.
Because natural phenomena and processes have often been raised
to the level of divinities, there is a large number of
beautifully described lesser mythological beings whose functions
are either very limited or completely denoted by their names.
Water deities are Latvian J_uras m_ate (Mother of the Sea),
_Udens m_ate (Mother of the Waters), Upes m_ate (Mother of the
Rivers), and Bangu m_ate (Mother of the waves; Lithuanian
Bangp_ut_ys), while atmospheric deities are Latvian V_eja m_ate
(Mother of the Wind), Lithuanian V.ejopatis (Master of the Wind),
Latvian Lietus m_ate (Mother of the Rain), Miglas m_ate (Mother
of the Fog), and Sniega m_ate (Mother of the Snow). Even greater
is the number of those beings related to human activities, but
only their names are still to be found, for example Miega m_ate
(Mother of Sleep) and Tirgus m_ate (Mother of the Market).
Goddess of destiny. Because of peculiarities of the source
materials, it is difficult to determine whether the goddess of
destiny, Laima (from the root word laime, meaning "happiness"
and "luck"), originally had the same importance in Baltic
religion as later, or whether her eminence is due to specific
historical circumstances of each of the Baltic peoples. In any
case, a wide collection of material concerning Laima is
available. The real ruler of human fate, she is mentioned
frequently together with Dievs in connection with the process
of creation. Although Laima determines a man's unchangeable
destiny at the moment of his birth, he can still lead his life
well or badly within the limits prescribed by her. She also
determines the moment of a person's death, sometimes even
arguing about it with Dievs.
The devil. The devil, Velns, has a well-defined role, which
is rarely documented so well in the folklore of other peoples.
Besides the usual outer features, several characteristics are
especially emphasized. Velns, for instance, is a stupid devil.
In addition, the Balts are the only colonialized people in Europe
who have preserved a large amount of folklore that in different
variations and situations portray the devil as a German landlord.
Another evil being is the Latvian Vilkacis, Lithuanian Vilkatas,
who corresponds to the werewolf in the traditions of other
peoples. The belief that the dead do not leave this world
completely is the basis for both good and evil spirits. As good
spirits the dead return to the living as invisible beings
(Latvian velis, Lithuanian v.el.es), but as evil ones they
return as persecutors and misleaders (Latvian vad_at_ajs,
Lithuanian vaidilas).
--------------------------- END OF EXCERPT ---------------------------
--
Antti Karttunen -- kar...@mits.mdata.fi -- !?
"Tee mit{ ikin{ teetkin, mutta tee se kiilto silmiss{si!"
A Kashko
I missed the start of this thread, somehow.
It may be obvious, but has anyone else noted that the names
Perun, Perkunas, and the indian equivalent (original?) varuna, are all
mimicking the sound of thunder?
Jon Terje Voll
> >Most current day American movies have billions of bad words, and
> >it's extremely annoying to watch the edited one on TV with billions
> >of 'beeps' :-).
Holy <BEEP> Is this true? That's to <BEEP>in' crazy to be true, I mean
it's that land of the free enterprise,isn't it? Who'd PAY <BEEP>in' MONEY
to see (admittedly already crap) movies mutilated in this way?? Isn't there
a market for a channel where people can say <BEEP> as much as they want???!!
Bob Hammarberg
>In article <1992May31.0...@mits.mdata.fi>, kar...@mits.mdata.fi (Antti
>Karttunen) writes:
>> >Here's a great one from the Jutland peninsula in
>> >Denmark:-
>> >"For Satan (da) i hede hule pestbefaengte syfilisinficerede svovl-
>> >dampende aids ramte Helvede!" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> There's a similar word in Finnish, "kuppanen" (= syfilitic), which I
>> find pleasurable one to use, because it's not so common and makes stronger
>> effect when used.
>The most horrible, awful and in all ways disgusting Finnish swear-word
>that I know of is: TURUNMAA!!!
>The meaning behind this word is so terrible and non-moralistic so I will
>not utter it on this network.
>--
> Cheers, Kent
>
My favorite one is, of course, PLATTLAND!!!
(Are we getting too esoteric?)