Finnish Sauna vs Swedish Sauna
PockGockAmock
Hi everyone,
I was last night in the sauna, pouring water on the stones,
when someone started complaining, and pretended that there
are two "schools" of sauna.
The finnish school would say that a sauna must be a hot and
humid place, and the swedish school would oppose and say that
a sauna should be a hot and dry place.
What is the truth?
PGa
Kari Yli-Kuha
The truth is that average Swedes know nothing whatsoever about sauna.
The Swedes have traditionally had a place which they call "badstuga",
or "bastu" for short.
This can be seen in the difference between modern electrically heated
Swedish and Finnish sauna ovens ("kiuas"). The Swedish ovens have
only a thin layer of stones to throw the water on. The Finnish ovens
have more stones.
Otherwise, I don't know much about Swedish sauna habits, or whether
they like it wet or dry. The Original ® Finnish Sauna most certainly
is moist.
Both Finns and Swedes like it hot, I guess :)
--
/Kari (male, btw.)
--
I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake.
-Bob Hudson
yvind Seland
In article <m2pvlku...@beta.sqc.fi>, Kari Yli-Kuha <yli...@beta.sqc.fi> writes:
> PockGockAmock <P...@compansid.be> writes:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I was last night in the sauna, pouring water on the stones,
> > when someone started complaining, and pretended that there
> > are two "schools" of sauna.
>
> The Swedes have traditionally had a place which they call "badstuga",
> or "bastu" for short.
>
> This can be seen in the difference between modern electrically heated
> Swedish and Finnish sauna ovens ("kiuas"). The Swedish ovens have
> only a thin layer of stones to throw the water on. The Finnish ovens
> have more stones.
>
The Norwegian ovens are usually similar to the Swdish ovens.
Since the stone layer is so thin it is often not allowed to throw any
water on them to to electricity regulations.
About saunas, I do not know about Sweden , but in Norway the "sauna" or
"badstog" tradition was quite strong until around 17th century.
(The puritan period, Pontoppidan..) I do not know if it was as common
as in Finland, probably not :-), but each farm used to have their own.
A few comments on humidity in saunas. The relative humidity in both
Finnish and Swedish saunas are quite low, although the Finnish
have a slightly higher humidity. The dew point is usually measured to 37-43 C
Since sauna warmed skin is often near 43 C the air is thus almost saturated
in respect to the skin and vaporazation from the skin is stongly suppresed.
If the air humidity was slightly increased, vaporization would cease and
even condensation on the skin might occur.
The comments are taken from the lecture: Phase transitions in Finnish sauna
given by Timo Vesala at the Departments of Physics, University of Helsinki
during an international conference on nucleation and atmospheric
aerosols in Helsinki, 1996 before the participants went for the sauna.
The lecture was also printed in the conference proceedings. For more
details he made a reference to a work Teir, H., Collan, Y. and
Valtakari, P., (eds.) Sauna Studies, VI International Sauna Congress
Helsinki. August 15-17, 1974), Vammalan Kirjapaino Oy.
Oyvind Seland
Jorma Kypp|
PockGockAmock (P...@compansid.be) wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I was last night in the sauna, pouring water on the stones,
> when someone started complaining, and pretended that there
> are two "schools" of sauna.
> humid place, and the swedish school would oppose and say that
> a sauna should be a hot and dry place.
> What is the truth?
As the word "sauna" is Finnish language => the Finnish sauna is
the real sauna. Unlike people in other countries, Swedes have
a name of their own for their "hot room". It is called "bastu".
The word comes from "bad stuga", bath house.
Nowadays also Swedes have started to use more the Finnish
"sauna" word, because it is international.
However, also in Germany and other many other countries
they use to have saunas, where you must not throw water.
It is called "dry sauna". But a "dry sauna" can also be
very hot.
A real Finnish kind of sauna I have seen at least in
Scotland. Also Russians use to have saunas like that.
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
P.S. the way how people "dress up" in sauna
differs in a funny way.
In Germany, UK or Sweden, you are expected
to have swimming suit or at least a towel
on you.
In Finland it is simple: you are naked.
In Russia, you are naked, but having a cap
on your head!:) (because it is hot)
Johan Olofsson
Kari Yli-Kuha <yli...@beta.sqc.fi> writes:
> The truth is that average Swedes know nothing whatsoever about sauna.
> The Swedes have traditionally had a place which they call "badstuga",
> or "bastu" for short.
As a frequent bastu-visitor I feel a urge to defend us!
...but after a second thought, I can't find anything to say.
The custom in public saunas in the mainpart of Sweden (Gävle and
south!) is totally dry saunas.
A new habit is steam-saunas in adventure-water-palaces - not really
institutions for swimming any more :(
These steam-saunas are barely warm, sometimes 50°C :((
Truth is that when one discovers someone with normal sauna habits over
here, someone who uses water as a mean to chase all slackdicks out of
the sauna, then it in 9 cases of 10 turns out to be a Finn (or, ...you
know what I mean, a second generation immigrant, or a third generation
ditto...).
Johan
--
e-mail: j...@lysator.liu.se
s-mail: Majeldsvägen 8a, 587 31 LINKÖPING, Sweden
www: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~jmo/
Johan Olofsson
jo...@jytko.jyu.fi (Jorma Kypp|) writes:
[ a load of desinformation snipped ]
> In Germany, UK or Sweden, you are expected
> to have swimming suit or at least a towel
> on you.
Am I ???
Have I never experienced!
Jorma Kypp|
\yvind Seland (oyvi...@ulrik.uio.no) wrote:
> About saunas, I do not know about Sweden , but in Norway the "sauna" or
> "badstog" tradition was quite strong until around 17th century.
> (The puritan period, Pontoppidan..) I do not know if it was as common
> as in Finland, probably not :-), but each farm used to have their own.
Actually saunas (though not called by that name) were quite common
all over the Europe until 17t century. They disappeared - as I have heard -
mostly because of the sex diseases and immorality. In Finland saunas
survived and are again becoming common also in the other parts
of Europe.
Perhaps one reason why sauna, which for Finns is difficult to connect
with diseases, just the other way round, did survive in Finland, but
not eg. in Germany? Because Finland wasn't so crowded?
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
.. better than usenet discussion is discussion in general sauna
Jorma Kypp|
Johan Olofsson (j...@lysator.liu.se) wrote:
> jo...@jytko.jyu.fi (Jorma Kypp|) writes:
> [ a load of desinformation snipped ]
Could you inform me what is "desinformation"..?;)
> > In Germany, UK or Sweden, you are expected
> > to have swimming suit or at least a towel
> > on you.
> Am I ???
> Have I never experienced!
Ok, perhaps it is diffrent in Sweden. How it is
in general saunas in Stockholm, are you naked
or must you have a towel?
At least in ships between Sweden and Finland,
the towels in saunas are not demanded.
(but also throwing water on stones is allowed)
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
PockGockAmock
jo...@jytko.jyu.fi (Jorma Kypp|) writes:
> \yvind Seland (oyvi...@ulrik.uio.no) wrote:
> > About saunas, I do not know about Sweden , but in Norway the "sauna" or
> > "badstog" tradition was quite strong until around 17th century.
> > (The puritan period, Pontoppidan..) I do not know if it was as common
> > as in Finland, probably not :-), but each farm used to have their own.
>
> Actually saunas (though not called by that name) were quite common
> all over the Europe until 17t century. They disappeared - as I have heard -
> mostly because of the sex diseases and immorality. In Finland saunas
In what you would call "Central Europe", public baths (not sauna)
were common until, as you write, 17th century and some public
baths survived until today, actually. But I am not aware of any
sauna (or sauna-like) in France of Belgium or Holland, or Germany
in illo tempore.
PGa
Johan Olofsson
jo...@jytko.jyu.fi (Jorma Kypp|) writes:
> Could you inform me what is "desinformation"..?;)
Don't make yourself more foolish than you are!
The general towel requirement in Swedish saunas is something you made
up. As usual you fancy writing about things you don't know too well.
Fredrik :Ostman
+-----< Jorma Kypp| >
| Nowadays also Swedes have started to use more the Finnish
| "sauna" word, because it is international.
+-
We started to speak Finnish, English, German, French, Japanese,
Hungarian, Serbocroatian, Persian, Arabic and so on quite some time ago
now, in some cases before the language in question borrowed the word
in question from Finnish.
In the Swedish language, however, there is no other word for the
phenomenon in question than "bastu".
And contrary to popular belief, Swedish sauna stoves do have a spacious
compartment for rocks suitable to throw water on.
+-
| In Germany, UK or Sweden, you are expected
| to have swimming suit or at least a towel
| on you.
+-
Not generally true for Sweden. You are encouraged to *sit* on your own
towel in a public sauna.
In Austria and Hungary the saunas are often heated to temperatures
around 90C, which I find far too hot. Throwing water on the stove in
such a hot and dry sauna results in a tremendous heat shock as the water
condensates on your body.
--
______ _~
(_/_ _ _ _/) _ . /) / ) , _/) _
__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_ (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
PockGockAmock
mbd...@lappi.hai.siemens.co.at (Fredrik :Ostman) writes:
> In Austria and Hungary the saunas are often heated to temperatures
> around 90C, which I find far too hot.
90°C is about the normal temperature in a finnish sauna, isn't it?
PGa
filmi
On 22 Jan 1998 12:05:04 GMT, jo...@jytko.jyu.fi (Jorma Kypp|) wrote:
>Actually saunas (though not called by that name) were quite common
>all over the Europe until 17t century. They disappeared - as I have heard -
>mostly because of the sex diseases and immorality. In Finland saunas
>survived and are again becoming common also in the other parts
>of Europe.
>Perhaps one reason why sauna, which for Finns is difficult to connect
>with diseases, just the other way round, did survive in Finland, but
>not eg. in Germany? Because Finland wasn't so crowded?
>
>Jorma Kyppo
>Laukaa
>Finland
I believe that you are right in assuming that sparse population was
one reason why Finnish sauna survived. Another factor may be that the
European sauna wasn't a sauna in the Finnish sense of the word (this
is speculation on my part). I believe they were more public baths and
in the cities of central Europe in the middle ages public places
attracted prostitutes and the like and this was one of the reasons why
the authorities (The church?) banned them. But like I said this is my
speculation.
In Finland there were no big cities, the saunas were not public, each
family had their own sauna, which was used by one or two families
without sexual overtures.
My two cents,
Pekka
"Modern democracy ensures that the completely gullible are
ruled by the completely fucked-up"
MP Hanratty in BBC's Crossing the Floor
filmi
On 22 Jan 1998 13:39:50 GMT, PockGockAmock <P...@compansid.be> wrote:
>mbd...@lappi.hai.siemens.co.at (Fredrik :Ostman) writes:
>
>> In Austria and Hungary the saunas are often heated to temperatures
>> around 90C, which I find far too hot.
>
>90°C is about the normal temperature in a finnish sauna, isn't it?
The Finnish saunas I've been in have been heated to temperatures from
70 to 120 degrees centigrade. The "normal" (=most common and best
liked) temperature is around 80 and 90 degrees centigrade, so you are
correct (I find 100 and above too hot).
>PGa
>
>> Throwing water on the stove in
>> such a hot and dry sauna results in a tremendous heat shock as the water
>> condensates on your body.
The "shock" depends on two things 1) the distance you are from the
stove (kiuas) and 2) the amount of water you throw on the stove. Hence
sit a bit further away from the stove and find a suitable amount of
water to throw each time. You're supposed to enjoy the relaxing heat
of the sauna, not to adhere to some rigid rules. (This wasn't
necessarily directed to the poster of this message, but to people
interested in sauna in general)
Bo Bjulen
Jorma Kypp| <jo...@jytko.jyu.fi> wrote:
> In Germany, UK or Sweden, you are expected
> to have swimming suit or at least a towel
> on you.
I've never seen a sauna in Sweden where you are expected to wear any
clothing. A towel, yes, but to sit on.
--
Bo Bjulen <bb...@pobox.com>
Markku Hoglund
PockGockAmock <P...@compansid.be> wrote:
: I was last night in the sauna, pouring water on the stones,
: when someone started complaining, and pretended that there
: are two "schools" of sauna.
: The finnish school would say that a sauna must be a hot and
: humid place, and the swedish school would oppose and say that
: a sauna should be a hot and dry place.
: What is the truth?
Swedish sauna is not sauna. It is bastu.
--
*********************
* Markku I. Hoglund *
* miho...@ratol.fi *
*********************
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Hiski Haapoja
Kurt Swanson (k...@dna.lth.se) wrote:
: > Not generally true for Sweden. You are encouraged to *sit* on your own
: > towel in a public sauna.
: I recommend this in general, regardless of country, to keep from
: burning your ass.
This only happens if you sit on metal parts. Nowadays, women often use
towels to protect themselves from diseases, men much less.
: One needs conditioning in order to be able to stomach the higher
: temperatures (even above 100°C).
...and then jump to a hole in an icy lake. Heart attacks do occur.
Hiski
# Spede Pasanen, ole mies ja nai Maria. #
Osmo Ronkanen
In article <6a7env$r...@zwei.siemens.at>,
Fredrik :Ostman <mbd...@lappi.hai.siemens.co.at> wrote:
>
>In Austria and Hungary the saunas are often heated to temperatures
>such a hot and dry sauna results in a tremendous heat shock as the water
>condensates on your body.
That's the whole point.
Osmo
Jari Oksanen
> > when someone started complaining, and pretended that there
> > are two "schools" of sauna.
> >
> >
> > The finnish school would say that a sauna must be a hot and
> > humid place, and the swedish school would oppose and say that
> > a sauna should be a hot and dry place.
> >
> > What is the truth?
>
> The Swedes have traditionally had a place which they call "badstuga",
> or "bastu" for short.
>
> Swedish and Finnish sauna ovens ("kiuas"). The Swedish ovens have
> only a thin layer of stones to throw the water on. The Finnish ovens
> have more stones.
>
> they like it wet or dry. The Original ® Finnish Sauna most certainly
> is moist.
>
> Both Finns and Swedes like it hot, I guess :)
>
their student housing estate. They were pleased and went frequently to
bath in the sauna. However, they had somehow misunderstood the idea,
since one day the saw a notice in the sauna door: "IF YOU WANT TO
CONTINUE TO USE THE SAUNA, PLEASE DON'T THROW WATER ON THE STONES!".
That about Norwegian sauna.
--
Jari Oksanen -- Lahtis, Finland.
Jorma Kypp|
Johan Olofsson (j...@lysator.liu.se) wrote:
> jo...@jytko.jyu.fi (Jorma Kypp|) writes:
> > Could you inform me what is "desinformation"..?;)
> Don't make yourself more foolish than you are!
> The general towel requirement in Swedish saunas is something you made
> up. As usual you fancy writing about things you don't know too well.
You misunderstood me. I wanted you to explain what the word "desinformation"
means?
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
;)
Kevin Fillips
My Father, a second generation american of Finnish descent recently
completed his sauna.
He made it by hand out of logs. He imported the stove from Finland.
His mother remembers the saunas on the early Finn immigrant's farms and
frequenting them with my grandfather. I asked her once what they wore,
and I think she chose to not understand the question.
This is not entirely related to sauna vs bastu, but I wanted to pipe in
and say how much I enjoyed reading this thread.
I have just recently began researching my Finn ancestry and have labored
to translate the old language place names to the new language place
names. I have my work cut out for me.
--
Kevin Fillips
(originally the last name was Filppula)
also I am swedish, and norwegian
call me a Nordic Mutt.:-)
Tim Dudley
>
>Two Finnish NordPlus students in Tromso told me that they had a sauna in
>their student housing estate. They were pleased and went frequently to
>bath in the sauna. However, they had somehow misunderstood the idea,
>since one day the saw a notice in the sauna door: "IF YOU WANT TO
>CONTINUE TO USE THE SAUNA, PLEASE DON'T THROW WATER ON THE STONES!".
>That about Norwegian sauna.
>--
>Jari Oksanen -- Lahtis, Finland.
We ran into that problem with the sauna in our local health club.
There is only a thin layer of rocks on the stove, and there are
warnings about throwing water on the sauna; also, the regulator
on the stove will only allow the heat to go to about 85C.
The way around these problems is to get a plant spritzer bottle,
fill it full of cold water (and a little eucalyptus oil), and take
it into the sauna with you. To get the heat up, spray a stream
of cold water onto the temperature sensor, which is usually
in the ceiling just above the stove. To create scented steam,
spray a stream of cold water onto the rocks. The water evaporates
before it gets anywhere near the heating element, so poses
no danger to the stove. One can get the temperature well
over 95C by doing this, and get enough steam to make
it a functional wet sauna.
(This is what I hear, anyway...)
Tim
--
Tim Dudley
Nortel, Advanced Technology
dudle...@xerox.com
Markku Huttu-Hiltunen
Actually I'v learnt that in Germany strange men and women go to sauna
naked at the same time!
Well, this needs explanation:
I was travelling with my Canadian friend in Montana (or Wyoming) allmost
ten years ago, and we stayed in many motels around those states. Some
motels there have saunas, and we picked up allways the one with sauna.
(My Canadian colleque never went to sauna - he didn't understand the
meaning of it.)
In this particular motel there was a small pool and hot&small sauna with
electric oven. The whole place was empty as I went to that sauna, and
naturally I started to look for a water bucket and a ladle. There wasn't
any, instead there was a big plate above the oven: "Do not throw water
on this oven". The oven was made in Finland, so I though no way I'm
gonna stay in dry sauna. I took a trash box from the dressing room,
washed it, and went to sauna laughing that stupid note on the wall. I
though that it was a men's sauna.
Then a woman came into sauna, and she was completely naked. I was so
supricing as she walked in front of me as comfortable as she was at home
and sat down. After while as I was recovering from that suprice, I
started to talk about public saunas and how in Finland men and women
used separate saunas. She explained that in Germany all people, strange
men and women, went to same sauna all the time.
Well, I left quite soon that sauna puzzeled wether she had some
intention to act like she did, or was it really normal for a german
lady.
MHH
Markku Huttu-Hiltunen
Kurt Swanson wrote:
> > Not generally true for Sweden. You are encouraged to *sit* on your own
> > towel in a public sauna.
>
> I recommend this in general, regardless of country, to keep from
> burning your ass. (There was an old scn discussion about a Russian
> ship having copper benches in their sauna).
Hahh...this reminds me about a joke of Swedes - that they use metallic
sauna benches - wasn't that a joke at all? ;-)
(HOHOOO...burning your ass...hahahahahahahaa.)
MHH, who has never burned his ass during his 31 years of weekly bading,
because *wooden sauna beches do not burn you*, in case you did'nt know.
R. Pierrehumbert
>with diseases, just the other way round, did survive in Finland, but
>not eg. in Germany? Because Finland wasn't so crowded?
My guess would be it had more to do with the fact that Finland
went directly to Protestantism without a prominent period under
the thumb of the Catholic church. The Church worked to
stamp out saunas because of their supposed link to
licentiousness (which is purely imaginary). Perhaps
also (and more realistically) they realized that the
sauna ritual in fact has religious aspects of its own,
though not in any formal sense. This would have
smacked of paganism, and in any event, might foster
divided loyalties.
When you get out of the sauna on Sunday, you feel so
clean and pure, going to church would almost seem
anticlimactic. A better tactic would have been to have a
big sauna house (two, actually, for the two sexes) on
the church yard, and have the sauna in connection with
the service.
The church at Kautokeino seemed to me a particularly
holy place when I stepped in. I later realized that
this was partly because it had the clean birch
smell of a perfect sauna house.
Jarmo Ryyti
Kevin Fillips <fil...@pop.uky.edu> wrote:
: My Father, a second generation american of Finnish descent recen
: I have just recently began researching my Finn ancestry and have labored
: to translate the old language place names to the new language place
: names. I have my work cut out for me.
: Kevin Fillips
: (originally the last name was Filppula)
: also I am swedish, and norwegian
: call me a Nordic Mutt.:-)
Vilppula is a place in Central-Finland. It was not a suprise
if the original name was Vilppula, because when A Non-Finn
hear "Villpula" they write it "Filppula". Not seldom
the priests if talking about old times, did not master
Finnish very well, and they wrote the names wrong from
the viewpoint of Finnish lanuage in the Church records.
Vilppula itself may have been a name for a farm-house.
Just a little bet.
regards,
jami
--
#In 1958,The Swedish School Administration repealed directives banning#
# the speaking of Finnish language in Sweden's schools.However,some #
# municipalities maintained restrictions until 1968 #
Markku Grönroos
R. Pierrehumbert <rt...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in article
<34CAC3...@midway.uchicago.edu>...
> >with diseases, just the other way round, did survive in Finland, but
> >not eg. in Germany? Because Finland wasn't so crowded?
>
> My guess would be it had more to do with the fact that Finland
> went directly to Protestantism without a prominent period under
> the thumb of the Catholic church. The Church worked to
I believe this too.
> stamp out saunas because of their supposed link to
> licentiousness (which is purely imaginary). Perhaps
I have learned that wickedness around these institutions in the Middle Ages
in Central Europe really did occur. So there was room for impurity and it
was not all imaginary. I guess that in Central Europe saunas were mostly
public whereas they were private in Finland.
Markku Grönroos
Jorma Kypp| <jo...@jytko.jyu.fi> wrote in article
<6a7clg$rvm$1...@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>...
> \yvind Seland (oyvi...@ulrik.uio.no) wrote:
> Perhaps one reason why sauna, which for Finns is difficult to connect
> with diseases, just the other way round, did survive in Finland, but
> not eg. in Germany? Because Finland wasn't so crowded?
>
I believe this must be a minor reason. Public saunas were typical in
Central Europe and for some reason they often hosted prostitutes. In
Finland this has not been a case.
Jorma Kypp|
R. Pierrehumbert (rt...@midway.uchicago.edu) wrote:
> My guess would be it had more to do with the fact that Finland
> went directly to Protestantism without a prominent period under
> the thumb of the Catholic church. The Church worked to
> licentiousness (which is purely imaginary). Perhaps
> sauna ritual in fact has religious aspects of its own,
> though not in any formal sense. This would have
> smacked of paganism, and in any event, might foster
> divided loyalties.
> When you get out of the sauna on Sunday, you feel so
> clean and pure, going to church would almost seem
> anticlimactic. A better tactic would have been to have a
> big sauna house (two, actually, for the two sexes) on
> the church yard, and have the sauna in connection with
> the service.
> The church at Kautokeino seemed to me a particularly
> holy place when I stepped in. I later realized that
> this was partly because it had the clean birch
> smell of a perfect sauna house.
I think you have a big fragment of truth here. In Finland
we often use to say: "sauna is the church of Finns".
When I was a child, I was taught, that sauna is a holy
place. It was not correct to shout or quarrel in sauna.
In sauna enemies were friends and it was a place to
forget the ordinary problems, kind of mediation place.
When I was a child, I was livng in a place where was a general
sauna. There I heard my first political discussions,
but also these discussions had kind of "different spirit".
When people who had different social status or totally
opposite opinions met in sauna without clothers, they
became somehow "equal".
It was no wonder, that the former president of Finland,
Urho Kekkonen, used to take Soviet and other foreign
leaders in Finland to hot sauna .. as naked:)
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
Tim Dudley
What's the wisdom of taking a sauna when you're sick?
I've always thought that it was a good idea, especially
for colds, figuring that it would enable you to sweat
out many of the toxins that were wearing your body down.
However, I'm finding that when I have a cold, a day after
a sauna I almost always feel worse. (And, yes,
I always have a cold shower afterwards, and am
completely dry before going back outside into cold
weather...)
So. Is one better off staying out of the sauna while
one has a cold, or to take them?
Thanks -
Otto-Ville Ronkainen
>You misunderstood me. I wanted you to explain what the word "desinformation"
>means?
Oddly enough, it's spelled "dis-" in English and Finnish and
"des-" in the Scandinavian languages (and German and certainly
others).
R. Pierrehumbert
>I think you have a big fragment of truth here. In Finland
>we often use to say: "sauna is the church of Finns".
Yes, and I can think of no better sign of the decay
of North American culture (or at least the superiority
of Finnish culture) than the time I went into a sauna
at Nortwestern University and saw somebody in there
reading... reading The Wall Street Journal!
Jorma Kypp|
Ahaa? But I think, that disinformation is spelled in Finnish as
"virhetietoa" or "v{{r{{ tietoa" or "virheellist{ tietoa".
You obviously wanted to say: in English spoken by Finns.
In case "disinformaatio" would be a Finnish word, it most
probably would be like "tisinformaatio":)
Now, what is the truth? Is "desinformation" disinformation
in Scandinavian languages or was it just disinformation?
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
Jorma Kypp|
Tim Dudley (dudle...@xerox.com.xxx) wrote:
> What's the wisdom of taking a sauna when you're sick?
> I've always thought that it was a good idea, especially
> for colds, figuring that it would enable you to sweat
> out many of the toxins that were wearing your body down.
> However, I'm finding that when I have a cold, a day after
> a sauna I almost always feel worse. (And, yes,
> I always have a cold shower afterwards, and am
> completely dry before going back outside into cold
> weather...)
> So. Is one better off staying out of the sauna while
> one has a cold, or to take them?
To stay out, definitely.
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
Sauna is not recommended in case you have fever or
problems with you heart.
PockGockAmock
Kurt Swanson <k...@dna.lth.se> writes:
> ki...@sci.fi (Hiski Haapoja) writes:
> > Kurt Swanson (k...@dna.lth.se) wrote:
> > : > Not generally true for Sweden. You are encouraged to *sit* on your own
> > : > towel in a public sauna.
>
> > : I recommend this in general, regardless of country, to keep from
> > : burning your ass.
>
> > towels to protect themselves from diseases, men much less.
>
This one is coming from Calvin & Hobbes.
> No, you won't fry
> yourself on wood, but it will conduct heat much faster than if you
> place a dry towel inbetween. I grew up in the US where the saunas are
> most all of the Finnish variety (hot & wet), but the wood is almost
> always bare, untreated cedar (which also give the place a pleasant
> aroma, unless the sweat content is too high). Nordic saunas seem to
> always be made from varnished beech, and my theory is that the
> varnished wood conducts heat better than untreated wood.
It might be true, but who wants splinters on its buttocks.
PGa
> > : One needs conditioning in order to be able to stomach the higher
> > : temperatures (even above 100°C).
>
> > ...and then jump to a hole in an icy lake. Heart attacks do occur.
>
> I've gotten my pulse up to 150 this way...
> --
> Kurt Swanson, Department of Computer Science, Lund University.
> k...@dna.lth.se (© 1998 Kurt Swanson AB)
Fredrik :Ostman
+-----< Kurt Swanson >
| Nordic saunas seem to
| always be made from varnished beech
+-
Should be unvarnished abachi. Or copper. That's the best after all.
Lasts longer.
Hugh Watkins
dudle...@xerox.com.xxx,usenet writes:
> One can get the temperature well
>over 95C by doing this, and get enough steam to make
>it a functional wet sauna.
bath which was steamy and dry rooms of various temperatures and a cold
plunge long enough to swim in
little cubicles curtained off where one could sleep a little after a
night on the town
a wash and massage on a marble slab - that was the lost luxury
Hugh W
PockGockAmock
Kurt Swanson <k...@dna.lth.se> writes:
> PockGockAmock <P...@compansid.be> writes:
> > It might be true, but who wants splinters on its buttocks.
>
> Not I, but it is in fact allowable to sand wood without varnishing it.
But... that is CHEATING!
PGa
> --
> Kurt Swanson, Department of Computer Science, Lund University.
> k...@dna.lth.se (Š 1998 Kurt Swanson AB)
Timo Salo
Jarmo Ryyti wrote:
>
> Vilppula is a place in Central-Finland. It was not a suprise
> if the original name was Vilppula, because when A Non-Finn
> hear "Villpula" they write it "Filppula". Not seldom
> the priests if talking about old times, did not master
> Finnish very well, and they wrote the names wrong from
> the viewpoint of Finnish lanuage in the Church records.
>
but I think the explanation you presented does not apply to this case at
all.
> Vilppula itself may have been a name for a farm-house.
> Just a little bet.
That is probably true. Filppula is a Southern-Ostrobothnian name (there
are places outside Central Finland, you know :-), and I guess it is
formed from the person name "Filppu" or Filippus -- or whatever version
of the common Christian name "Philip".
The name Vilppula must have quite similar roots. The gist is that only
people in westernmost Finland have adopted the use of the sound "f" in
loan words (from Swedish, basically); people farther east tend to use
"v" or "hv" instead. Standard written Finnish favo(u)rs f-less forms,
except in international words such as "filosofia", "professori".
--
- Now, what's the .?
- Ah, that's another ?.
PockGockAmock
Kurt Swanson <k...@dna.lth.se> writes:
> mbd...@lappi.hai.siemens.co.at (Fredrik :Ostman) writes:
> > +-----< Kurt Swanson >
> > | Nordic saunas seem to
> > | always be made from varnished beech
> > +-
>
> > Should be unvarnished abachi. Or copper. That's the best after all.
> > Lasts longer.
>
> And you should spread out a nice layer of olive oil, little pressed
> garlic...
One can notice that Mr Swanson spent quite a while
in Central Africa.
PGa
Fredrik :Ostman
+-----< Markku Huttu-Hiltunen >
| Actually I'v learnt that in Germany strange men and women go to sauna
| naked at the same time!
+-
Often there are two saunas: not one for men and one for women, but one
for clothed and one for naked bathers, the latter often demarked as
FKK, Freie Körperkultur. Nudism is big in Germany.
PockGockAmock
Markku Huttu-Hiltunen <markku.hut...@pp.inet.fi> writes:
> Bo Bjulen wrote:
> >
> > Jorma Kypp| <jo...@jytko.jyu.fi> wrote:
> >
> > > In Germany, UK or Sweden, you are expected
> > > to have swimming suit or at least a towel
> > > on you.
> >
> > I've never seen a sauna in Sweden where you are expected to wear any
> > clothing. A towel, yes, but to sit on.
> >
> > --
> > Bo Bjulen
>
> Actually I'v learnt that in Germany strange men and women go to sauna
> naked at the same time!
>
> Well, this needs explanation:
>
> I was travelling with my Canadian friend in Montana (or Wyoming) allmost
> ten years ago, and we stayed in many motels around those states. Some
> motels there have saunas, and we picked up allways the one with sauna.
> (My Canadian colleque never went to sauna - he didn't understand the
> meaning of it.)
>
> In this particular motel there was a small pool and hot&small sauna with
> electric oven. The whole place was empty as I went to that sauna, and
> naturally I started to look for a water bucket and a ladle. There wasn't
> any, instead there was a big plate above the oven: "Do not throw water
> on this oven". The oven was made in Finland, so I though no way I'm
> gonna stay in dry sauna. I took a trash box from the dressing room,
> washed it, and went to sauna laughing that stupid note on the wall. I
> though that it was a men's sauna.
>
> Then a woman came into sauna, and she was completely naked. I was so
> supricing as she walked in front of me as comfortable as she was at home
> and sat down. After while as I was recovering from that suprice, I
> started to talk about public saunas and how in Finland men and women
> used separate saunas. She explained that in Germany all people, strange
> men and women, went to same sauna all the time.
>
> Well, I left quite soon that sauna puzzeled wether she had some
> intention to act like she did, or was it really normal for a german
> lady.
In Belgium (in my gym-club anyway), it is quite normal too. Men and women
share the same sauna (and are usually naked).
PGa
> MHH
Jorma Kypp|
Markku Huttu-Hiltunen (markku.hut...@pp.inet.fi) wrote:
> Actually I'v learnt that in Germany strange men and women go to sauna
> naked at the same time!
> used separate saunas. She explained that in Germany all people, strange
> men and women, went to same sauna all the time.
Nice story that was, just one question: what do you mean by "strange German
men"? Did the lady think, that also you were strange..?
;)
"Long time ago", when there were still 2 Germanys, I used to go by
boat (quite small) from Trelleborg, Sweden to Sassnitz, DDR. If
the boat was a Swedish one, there usually was a sauna. It was obviously
"dry" sauna as there was no possibilities to throw water.
I made it by plastic bag, and got good sauna (and it didn't get broken).
Sadly I wasn't so lucky as you, there never were any other people in
sauna than me ... perhaps I was "strange"..:)
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
Jorma Kypp|
Timo Salo (ts...@cc.hut.fi) wrote:
> Jarmo Ryyti wrote:
> > Vilppula itself may have been a name for a farm-house.
> > Just a little bet.
> That is probably true. Filppula is a Southern-Ostrobothnian name (there
> are places outside Central Finland, you know :-), and I guess it is
> formed from the person name "Filppu" or Filippus -- or whatever version
> of the common Christian name "Philip".
> The name Vilppula must have quite similar roots. The gist is that only
> people in westernmost Finland have adopted the use of the sound "f" in
> loan words (from Swedish, basically); people farther east tend to use
> "v" or "hv" instead. Standard written Finnish favo(u)rs f-less forms,
I think this is correct interpretation. There is also place Vilppula
(kind of small city) in Finland between Jyvaskyla and Tampere.
If I remember right, I did even live there some time..
> except in international words such as "filosofia", "professori".
Well.. yes. But as we Finns know, the spoken language in dialects
and countryside may sometimes delope faster.
We also have the forms "vilosohvia" and "rohvessori".....:)
Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland
In case we would not have "Suomi" we would have "Vinlanti".
As we already have:
France => "Ranska"
England => "Englanti"
Hiski Haapoja
Tim Dudley (dudle...@xerox.com.xxx) wrote:
: What's the wisdom of taking a sauna when you're sick?
: I've always thought that it was a good idea, especially
: for colds,
Yes.
: However, I'm finding that when I have a cold, a day after
: a sauna I almost always feel worse.
This would be weird, but your next sentence explains it.
: (And, yes, I always have a cold shower afterwards,
I rest my case. Taking cold showers when you have a cold
makes things worse.
Hiski, whose colds always feel better after sauna
# Pohjimmiltani olen pieni hoikka brunetti. #
osmo Joronen
Well,
Any Finn knows by way of folk knowledge, that colds penetrate deeper
when
you have a sauna. I have heard it from many Finns, that coughs
especially can
go down into the lungs. However, contradicting this folk knowledge is
the saying
that if tar, sauna, and booze can't cure it, the disease is fatal. So,
who knows?
I think the answer must be in catching the bug before it has a foothold
on the
body, raising the body temperature to an "artificial fever" which then
snuffs out
the virus or bacteria before it can get established.
Osmo Joronen
Well, if all the above don't work, try jumping into an avanto.
Johan Olofsson
"R. Pierrehumbert" <rt...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
> My guess would be it had more to do with the fact that Finland
> went directly to Protestantism without a prominent period under
> the thumb of the Catholic church.
A nice idea; however wrong. Finland was, so to say, conquered for
Catholicism in the 12th century. Before that Eastern Christianity
(what later would be called Russian Orthodox Faith) and Western
Christianity had struggled for dominance over the Finnish souls. The
magnates from Svealand, who had secured the conquest, were in the year
1164 rewarded with the arch-bishopric for Sweden situated to Uppsala.
(And hence Linköping, the town from where I write this message, had
lost _that_ power-struggle.)
best regards!
Johan Olofsson
--
e-mail: j...@lysator.liu.se
s-mail: Majeldsvägen 8a, 587 31 LINKÖPING, Sweden
www: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~jmo/
lucas.vikt...@gmail.com
> Hi everyone,
>
> I was last night in the sauna, pouring water on the stones,
> when someone started complaining, and pretended that there
> are two "schools" of sauna.
>
>
> The finnish school would say that a sauna must be a hot and
> humid place, and the swedish school would oppose and say that
> a sauna should be a hot and dry place.
>
> What is the truth?
>
> PGa
anyone who says sauna is too hot is gay swede