Starbucks Coffee Shops

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Mustacchia

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Jul 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/23/99
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Hello, I am enrolled in an International marketing class at the
University of Houston and we are working on a project. We have a class
project in which we are to supposedly export a product to another
country and write a report on it. We have selected Sweden as our
country and our product is Starbucks Coffee. My professor said he
would like to know if the people in Sweden would be receptive to this
type of specialty coffee retailers. Since I have never been to Sweden
I have been looking on the internet for related topics. Does anyone
have any feedback as to whether or not Starbucks could actually make it
in Sweden? Are there any specialty coffee shops in Sweden already?

Thanks for your help. I'd appreciate any feedback!

Patty
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).


Martha Hughes

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Jul 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/23/99
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Mustacchia wrote:
>
> Hello, I am enrolled in an International marketing class at the
> University of Houston and we are working on a project. We have a class
> project in which we are to supposedly export a product to another
> country and write a report on it. We have selected Sweden as our
> country and our product is Starbucks Coffee. My professor said he
> would like to know if the people in Sweden would be receptive to this
> type of specialty coffee retailers. Since I have never been to Sweden
> I have been looking on the internet for related topics. Does anyone
> have any feedback as to whether or not Starbucks could actually make it
> in Sweden? Are there any specialty coffee shops in Sweden already?
>
> Thanks for your help. I'd appreciate any feedback!
>
> Patty

Oh, the sheer evilness of this post Patty is beyond words. How DARE you
for even suggesting that you would have a hand at polluting an innocent
country like Sweden with Starf**ks!

Starbucks is the epitome of chain-store pollution. They move in,
destroying the local businesses. They take money away from the families
who have had their stores for decades. They take the money sometimes out
of the country, even. Every Starfucks looks the same, every starfucks
serve the same drinks. It's digusting! It may be just a fun little
project to you, but it could be the end of many Swedish businesses. I
say DIE STARBUCKS, DIE!!!!!!

Electric Avenue

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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stefan wrote:
>Sweden has the highest per capita coffee consumption in the world and I
>doubt many Swedes would be interested in most weak American coffee. >Some
specialties could catch on however.


*Specialties*!! You mean atomic powered rocket booster? Nothing
has the kick-in-the-ass like Gävalia (spelling?). Swedish coffee will not
only make a spoon stand up, it will flip it across the room! I don't
think Starbucks could handle it without special precautions and
training for its Nordic Operations Department. There's only one
thing that Starbucks could possibly put in its coffee that might tempt
a Swede, and that is.... well.... don't tell, now.... ((alcohol)). :)

«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Jon Tveten wrote:
>
> In article <7nbq71$k8c$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Electric_Y...@Privacy.NuXX says...
> > "Starfucks". star-fucks. StarFucks. I like that! That term has
> > a certain... je ne sais pas. A resonance! Yes!! It resonates! That
> > term has legs! We should share it with the Australians! :)
> >
>
> Too many syllables :)
>
> --
> Jon Tveten
> En Bæring i Australia

LOL!

Electric Avenue

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Martha Hughes wrote:
>Starf**ks!

>Every Starfucks looks the same, every starfucks
>serve the same drinks.

"Starfucks". star-fucks. StarFucks. I like that! That term has


a certain... je ne sais pas. A resonance! Yes!! It resonates! That
term has legs! We should share it with the Australians! :)


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»


Markku Huttu-Hiltunen

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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stefan wrote:
>
>
> Sweden has the highest per capita coffee consumption in the world and...

When did they pass Finland?

http://catalog.com/sovrana/chart.htm

MHH

Markku Huttu-Hiltunen

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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A note that I just recalled:

My parents visited Canada, and I took them to a bar which had - as usual
- a waiter filling up cups of coffee all the time. After a couple of
cups my father said (in Finnish, he does not speak English)"this tea
tastes strange, do they have coffee here?" I spilled my starbuck.

MHH

Jarkko H Tolvanen

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Mustacchia <musta...@slb.com> wrote:
: I have been looking on the internet for related topics. Does anyone

: have any feedback as to whether or not Starbucks could actually make it
: in Sweden? Are there any specialty coffee shops in Sweden already?

When I visited Canada once I saw lots of people walking along streets
with a starbucks coffee cup at one hand, many of them looked like
employees going to work. Some starbucks coffee shops at office areas
were so small, that it was obvious that big portion of their customers
take their cup with them and drink it somewhere else (at work?)

This is very unusual in nordic countries, at least where I live, the
whole idea of not making coffee at the work
place, but buying it at some point between home and work, or leaving the
office during coffee break in order to buy coffee at a coffee shop.
In fact some speciality coffee shops have been trying to itroduce these
mcdonalds-style disosable coffee cups, put people don't use them usually. They
don't buy the idea of take-away coffee, but drink it where they buy it.

I don't know about Sweden though, I have never really been there unless
day-trips to Stockholm count.

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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B. Thober wrote:

>
> On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:59:36 -0700, Martha Hughes
> <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >Starbucks is the epitome of chain-store pollution. They move in,
> >destroying the local businesses. They take money away from the families
> >who have had their stores for decades. They take the money sometimes out
> >of the country, even. Every Starfucks looks the same, every starfucks
> >serve the same drinks. It's digusting! It may be just a fun little
> >project to you, but it could be the end of many Swedish businesses. I
> >say DIE STARBUCKS, DIE!!!!!!
>
> Somebody here needs to seriously switch to decaf (me thinks). ;)
>
> Seriously though, I'd bet it wouldn't last very long if it did.
>
> Starbucks fills a void for people who wouldn't normally go to
> traditional coffee houses for socializing. They take your money
> and let you sit all day without pushing the guilt-trip looks, unlike
> some coffee houses that push everything from broom holders to mugs in
> the shapes of weird non-existant animals, bad poetry readings,
> dreadful sadistic folk music performances that make you want to off
> yourself, with the ever various scruffy-looking clientele that make
> you question your sanity with insane talk about couples who share what
> it's like in their crossdressing relationship with -lucky- you!!!
> All the while you just want your damn coffee, and guess what it comes
> out of!?!?? One of those 1960's thermos, push down and it pours out
> deally things. It isn't exactly coffee anymore.. More like mud! You
> immediately spill it all over yourself 'cause the lid isn't cool like
> starbuck's lids are. These lids were created with this purpose in mind
> though! You have to sit down with the rest of the weirdos there, and
> sip it very very slowly. They warp your fragile mind with talk of
> scientology, and aliens visitation from the pleadiaes star system!!
> Just choose your poison...
>
> No m'am. I will stick with Mcdonald/starbucks.. thanks.
>
> Bryan Thober
> <az...@lafn.org>
> Los Angeles, California U.S.A.
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bthober/

Yes, I do live off coffee! But NOT Starbucks! When they started invading
S.F., Starbucks had to make their coffee stronger for San Franciscans to
accept it. Seattle make have more coffee places, but SF likes it
stronger.

I do support local merchants, such as Peets. They have much, much better
coffee anyway.

Which reminds me...I'm OUT of the wonderful stuff this morning and have
to drink tea...ug!

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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HWM wrote:

>
> Mustacchia wrote:
> > Does anyone
> > have any feedback as to whether or not Starbucks could actually make it
> > in Sweden?
>
> If they started selling *coffee* they would. Then again knowing american
> coffee they'd save a lot of money because they could buy all the
> leftover soots from the other coffee shops and use that to acheive the
> excellent mudcolored tea you pass as 'coffee'. And believe me, if you
> tried to sell decaffeinated here they'd come back asking for refund.
> Maybe you could include a coctail bar selling non-alcoholic whisky and
> vodka as well? The most popular 'coffee shops' in Helsinki seem to be
> the gas stations, and these days even the R-Kioski newsstands serve
> 'Gevalia'. Which actually is not that bad, I get a cup almost every
> morning before I catch the 7:07 train to work.

>
> >Are there any specialty coffee shops in Sweden already?
>
> I think the speciality coffeeshop boom here in Helsinki came over from
> Stockholm a few years back so yes, though the Swedish coffee prices
> seemed abominably high (or then I just get my crowns mixed up). I still
> long for a Cuban coffee now and then.
>
> I think a Wal-mart could have been a better option.
>
> Cheers, | The conformity of purpose will be achieved |
> HWM | through the mutual satisfaction of requirements.|
> ==> hen...@GNWmail.com & http://www.softavenue.fi/u/henry.w

I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
>
> Mustacchia <musta...@slb.com> wrote:
> : I have been looking on the internet for related topics. Does anyone

> : have any feedback as to whether or not Starbucks could actually make it
> : in Sweden? Are there any specialty coffee shops in Sweden already?
>
> When I visited Canada once I saw lots of people walking along streets
> with a starbucks coffee cup at one hand, many of them looked like
> employees going to work. Some starbucks coffee shops at office areas
> were so small, that it was obvious that big portion of their customers
> take their cup with them and drink it somewhere else (at work?)
>
> This is very unusual in nordic countries, at least where I live, the
> whole idea of not making coffee at the work
> place, but buying it at some point between home and work, or leaving the
> office during coffee break in order to buy coffee at a coffee shop.
> In fact some speciality coffee shops have been trying to itroduce these
> mcdonalds-style disosable coffee cups, put people don't use them usually. They
> don't buy the idea of take-away coffee, but drink it where they buy it.
>
> I don't know about Sweden though, I have never really been there unless
> day-trips to Stockholm count.

The whole "throw away" lifestyle is very American, I'm afraid. I don't
like it one bit. I hate the waste and the idea that there is too much
work to do to slow down and enjoy a cup of coffee.

I work at a very large corporation where they don't supply us with
coffee, we have to buy our own. So, I bring in a coffee maker to save
some money.

One of the reasons why we Americans are always eating on the run,
drinking coffee of the run, etc., is that we work 8 hours + a day. Many
of us nowdays don't get much of a lunch break as well.

HWM

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Martha Hughes wrote:

> I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
> you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
> taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.

Stronger? American coffee? I was talking about the everyday stuff you
get, more or less industrial. Some of the stuff I got in the US that was
passed as coffee was dishwater they washed the pots in.

One morning at the hotel some yankee ladies were leaving early and had a
coffee at the reception where we had a big two-pot brewing machine and
hot coffee all the time. These old ladies complained about the coffee. I
told them I had just been complained that the coffee was not strong
enough and I'd make a second pot right away. Then the lady turned sort
of pale and said "stronger, no, no this coffee is too strong already". I
suppose grouchy ladies got the revenge of lalli on the plane.

Calling 'merkin coffee 'strong' is like calling buzzwater 'beer'.

Now then if we talk about a decent espresso or some blue mountain or
maybe some Cuban in Miami, that does not count. In Finland you go to a
gas station you get decent coffee.

--

Jarkko H Tolvanen

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
: I work at a very large corporation where they don't supply us with

: coffee, we have to buy our own. So, I bring in a coffee maker to save
: some money.

: One of the reasons why we Americans are always eating on the run,
: drinking coffee of the run, etc., is that we work 8 hours + a day. Many
: of us nowdays don't get much of a lunch break as well.

In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these
include 15min coffee break at afternoon. Because of this, work places
usually (if not allways) have a coffee maker provided by the company.
And some coffee of course, however companies may charge employees a small
sum of money for a cup of coffee.

They say that in "the good old days" during these daily coffee breaks
employees gathered together to drink coffee and discuss the hottest gossips.
However, at least among IT professionals it is very common these days
that evyrybody simply has too much work to do, and not enough time to
have a "real" coffee break. So it's more common to drink one's coffee at the
work desk. Of course it takes a while to walk to the coffee pot to get
coffee, but we have that 15min per day allowance :-).

Electric Avenue

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Martha Hughes wrote:
>I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
>you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
>taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.

Oy, oy, oy! *Stronger*? Little lady, do you jest? Pad on down
to your nearest nordic foodshop, you know the kind - where the
homesick Swedes and their brethren go. *Gently* grab some Gävalia
coffee. Pay the outlandish price for this outlandish explosive, and
*gently* carry it home in a well-padded container. Brew some of this
stuff in your friend's chemistry lab. Keep the windows closed or
Nordics will come running to get some from places miles downwind of
you. Use about, oh, 4 tablespoons per cup of water.
When the soup is ready, no part of a spoon dipped into it should
be visible. If it is not absolutely opaque, it is too weak. Try stirring
it.
If the spoon handle handle doesn't break, it's still probably too weak.
Put in more Gävalia.
When it's finally ready, you will already be shaking. House flies will
be doing supersonic kamikazi shots into the wall. Put on a motorcycle
crash helmet. Get a glob of this black stuff with your least favorite
finger, and put it into your mouth. That buzzing you hear is in your
head. Quickly drink some before you splash it all over the room.
Mmmmmm. Good, huh? Now you will know why I said to wear a
crash helmet! You will stop bouncing off the walls in about 4 hours.


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
HWM wrote:
>
> Martha Hughes wrote:
>
> > I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
> > you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
> > taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.
>
> Stronger? American coffee? I was talking about the everyday stuff you
> get, more or less industrial. Some of the stuff I got in the US that was
> passed as coffee was dishwater they washed the pots in.
>
> One morning at the hotel some yankee ladies were leaving early and had a
> coffee at the reception where we had a big two-pot brewing machine and
> hot coffee all the time. These old ladies complained about the coffee. I
> told them I had just been complained that the coffee was not strong
> enough and I'd make a second pot right away. Then the lady turned sort
> of pale and said "stronger, no, no this coffee is too strong already". I
> suppose grouchy ladies got the revenge of lalli on the plane.
>
> Calling 'merkin coffee 'strong' is like calling buzzwater 'beer'.
>
> Now then if we talk about a decent espresso or some blue mountain or
> maybe some Cuban in Miami, that does not count. In Finland you go to a
> gas station you get decent coffee.

San Francisco is known for its great strong coffee. I'm a fan of french
roast myself, but a good espresso now and then is definitely a pleasure.

Coffee may be the national beverage of Sweden, but it's a necessity to
us San Franciscans!

Older Americans are not as fussy as us younger ones when it comes to
coffee. There is not a block in any financial areas of S.F. where there
isn't a spcialty coffee stand. If they sold crappy coffee, they'd be out
of business really fast.

HWM

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:

> In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
> contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these
> include 15min coffee break at afternoon.

It used to be two ten-minute "smoking breaks" as I recall. In my company
we drink coffee at about 2 hour intervals. I mean after glaring at the
screen more than that your productivity decreases exponentially. I
usually get a print-out of my code with me and go through to see where
the bugs lie. And I do not get the coffee to my desk as I shall at some
point and time spill it all over my desk. Especially as the coffee-cup
holder has a hole in the middle. Actually we have 7.30 hours of work, a
30 minutes lunch in the middle, but as long as you do the 7.30 hours you
can have a 3-hour lunch if you insist. Then again some days you wait for
three hours to wait for the big machine to churn and get miscellaneous
zilch error messages for an answer. Or then the EDAserver goes dead or
then...

HWM

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Martha Hughes wrote:

> San Francisco is known for its great strong coffee. I'm a fan of french
> roast myself, but a good espresso now and then is definitely a pleasure.

Ok, next time I'll think of career moves SanFran gets a plus point.
My only experiences of California were small towns on the Nevada border,
such as Trona and then Death Valley. Of LA I've seen the airport... I
think I ought to visit, though all these flaky tv series as 90210 filmed
there make me want not to.

'oh when you go to san fransisco, remember to wear some vaseline in your
ass'

Erik A. Mattila

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
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Are you sure you're not confusing 'taste' with drug addiction? Maybe it
just takes more caffien to wake you up after hibernation.
But you're right, coffee in the US is preferred very weak. Much stonger in
Mexico though.

In the early 60s I worked in a 'genuine Beatnik Coffee house' that served a
lot of expresso. Part of my job was clearing the tables between the acts
of the Virgin Island Steel Band and Limbo Dancer (who could go under the
bar at 12 inches, believe it or not -- a skinny fellow). I had to move
quick, a lot of tables packed close together, and I had about ten minutes
to do my thing. I carried a big plastic tub on one shoulder, and I would
pick up cups and glasses and throw them in (breaking a lot of glass,
frequently). But the tiny little expresso cups always were still full of
expresso, and half of it ended in my face or dripping down my back, since
it would spill as I loaded then into the tub. I would guess about 10% of
the customers drank it - the rest tasted it and pushed it aside.

Erik Mattila

HWM wrote:

> Martha Hughes wrote:
>
> > I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
> > you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
> > taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.
>
> Stronger? American coffee? I was talking about the everyday stuff you
> get, more or less industrial. Some of the stuff I got in the US that was
> passed as coffee was dishwater they washed the pots in.
>
> One morning at the hotel some yankee ladies were leaving early and had a
> coffee at the reception where we had a big two-pot brewing machine and
> hot coffee all the time. These old ladies complained about the coffee. I
> told them I had just been complained that the coffee was not strong
> enough and I'd make a second pot right away. Then the lady turned sort
> of pale and said "stronger, no, no this coffee is too strong already". I
> suppose grouchy ladies got the revenge of lalli on the plane.
>
> Calling 'merkin coffee 'strong' is like calling buzzwater 'beer'.
>
> Now then if we talk about a decent espresso or some blue mountain or
> maybe some Cuban in Miami, that does not count. In Finland you go to a
> gas station you get decent coffee.
>

> --

Erik A. Mattila

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
California labor requires a morning and afternoon break, 15 minutes each (or it
could be 10, I can't remember) plus a 30 minute lunch. What Martha is
describing seems to be pretty common, but it is illegal (whose going to police
this?) If an employee complains, she/he is likely to lose the job. It seems
that most lawyers who specialize in Labor Law and employment discrimination are
those who will advise employers how to screw their workers and get away with
it. And the EEOC is so backlogged with cases, plus having their staff cut back
to about 35% of the 1995 level, that they will tell you 'get your own lawyer
(which is pretty hard to do since you are unemployed.) So people just work
instead of taking coffee breaks, and work out there hostilities in other ways,
like low productivity, day dreaming, etc.

Erik Mattila

Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:

> Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> : I work at a very large corporation where they don't supply us with
> : coffee, we have to buy our own. So, I bring in a coffee maker to save
> : some money.
>
> : One of the reasons why we Americans are always eating on the run,
> : drinking coffee of the run, etc., is that we work 8 hours + a day. Many
> : of us nowdays don't get much of a lunch break as well.
>

> In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
> contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
HWM wrote:
>
> Martha Hughes wrote:
>
> > San Francisco is known for its great strong coffee. I'm a fan of french
> > roast myself, but a good espresso now and then is definitely a pleasure.
>
> Ok, next time I'll think of career moves SanFran gets a plus point.
> My only experiences of California were small towns on the Nevada border,
> such as Trona and then Death Valley. Of LA I've seen the airport... I
> think I ought to visit, though all these flaky tv series as 90210 filmed
> there make me want not to.

90210 was filmed in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, as in LOS ANGELES, NOT San
Francisco!!! There is a HUGE difference. We Northern Californians detest
being in the same sentence as So Cal! There are no similarities. Now,
since you haven't been here, but I have been to Scandinavia, why are you
commenting on how strong our coffee is? Seems kinda silly, since you
don't know what the heck you're talking about!


>
> 'oh when you go to san fransisco, remember to wear some vaseline in your
> ass'

Oh, very funny......

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
Erik A. Mattila wrote:
>
> Are you sure you're not confusing 'taste' with drug addiction? Maybe it
> just takes more caffien to wake you up after hibernation.
> But you're right, coffee in the US is preferred very weak. Much stonger in
> Mexico though.

Yes, I've had Mexican coffee. Quite similar to the stuff my Uncle Slim
(yes that's what we called him) made, which he called "Mississippi Mud"
It was thicker than chilled maple syrup.


>
> In the early 60s I worked in a 'genuine Beatnik Coffee house' that served a
> lot of expresso. Part of my job was clearing the tables between the acts
> of the Virgin Island Steel Band and Limbo Dancer (who could go under the
> bar at 12 inches, believe it or not -- a skinny fellow). I had to move
> quick, a lot of tables packed close together, and I had about ten minutes
> to do my thing. I carried a big plastic tub on one shoulder, and I would
> pick up cups and glasses and throw them in (breaking a lot of glass,
> frequently). But the tiny little expresso cups always were still full of
> expresso, and half of it ended in my face or dripping down my back, since
> it would spill as I loaded then into the tub. I would guess about 10% of
> the customers drank it - the rest tasted it and pushed it aside.

In college I lived off double espressos....I had a lot of late night
studying. And yes, I always polished my cup off.
>
> Erik Mattila


>
> HWM wrote:
>
> > Martha Hughes wrote:
> >

> > > I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
> > > you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
> > > taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.
> >
> > Stronger? American coffee? I was talking about the everyday stuff you
> > get, more or less industrial. Some of the stuff I got in the US that was
> > passed as coffee was dishwater they washed the pots in.
> >
> > One morning at the hotel some yankee ladies were leaving early and had a
> > coffee at the reception where we had a big two-pot brewing machine and
> > hot coffee all the time. These old ladies complained about the coffee. I
> > told them I had just been complained that the coffee was not strong
> > enough and I'd make a second pot right away. Then the lady turned sort
> > of pale and said "stronger, no, no this coffee is too strong already". I
> > suppose grouchy ladies got the revenge of lalli on the plane.
> >
> > Calling 'merkin coffee 'strong' is like calling buzzwater 'beer'.
> >
> > Now then if we talk about a decent espresso or some blue mountain or
> > maybe some Cuban in Miami, that does not count. In Finland you go to a
> > gas station you get decent coffee.
> >
> > --

Martha Hughes

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Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
stefan wrote:
>
> In article <7nd4n1$rmp$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Electric Avenue"

> <互猾せカせ互� wrote:
>
> > Martha Hughes wrote:
> > >I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
> > >you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
> > >taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.
> >
> > Oy, oy, oy! *Stronger*? Little lady, do you jest? Pad on down
> > to your nearest nordic foodshop, you know the kind - where the
> > homesick Swedes and their brethren go. *Gently* grab some G鋠alia
> > coffee.
>
> Gevalia.

Well, that was my problem right there...no Gevalia....
>
> --
> stefan, valley of the sun
>
> "When government lies to you, it's for your own good."
> - Archie Bunker

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
>
> Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> : I work at a very large corporation where they don't supply us with
> : coffee, we have to buy our own. So, I bring in a coffee maker to save
> : some money.
>
> : One of the reasons why we Americans are always eating on the run,
> : drinking coffee of the run, etc., is that we work 8 hours + a day. Many
> : of us nowdays don't get much of a lunch break as well.
>
> In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
> contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these
> include 15min coffee break at afternoon. Because of this, work places
> usually (if not allways) have a coffee maker provided by the company.
> And some coffee of course, however companies may charge employees a small
> sum of money for a cup of coffee.
>
> They say that in "the good old days" during these daily coffee breaks
> employees gathered together to drink coffee and discuss the hottest gossips.
> However, at least among IT professionals it is very common these days
> that evyrybody simply has too much work to do, and not enough time to
> have a "real" coffee break. So it's more common to drink one's coffee at the
> work desk. Of course it takes a while to walk to the coffee pot to get
> coffee, but we have that 15min per day allowance :-).

None of my friends in Norway work as many hours as we Americans do.
Perhaps this is not the norm, but I seem to think it is. My friend who
is a computer programmer for the Norwegian government works 8 'til 3pm
in the summer, 8-4pm in the winter, with two 1/2 hour breaks during the
day. AND, he gets a starting vacation time of 4 weeks. No one in the
U.S. has that kind of deal, except for maybe the MUNI bus drivers.

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
HWM wrote:

>
> Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
>
> > In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
> > contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these
> > include 15min coffee break at afternoon.
>
> It used to be two ten-minute "smoking breaks" as I recall.

Studies (by whom, who knows?) show that smokers work less hours than
non-smokers in the U.S., because the smokers have to leave their desks
more often and go outside and smoke. Will this lead to discrimination
against smokers? I don't know.

In my company
> we drink coffee at about 2 hour intervals. I mean after glaring at the
> screen more than that your productivity decreases exponentially. I
> usually get a print-out of my code with me and go through to see where
> the bugs lie. And I do not get the coffee to my desk as I shall at some
> point and time spill it all over my desk. Especially as the coffee-cup
> holder has a hole in the middle. Actually we have 7.30 hours of work, a
> 30 minutes lunch in the middle, but as long as you do the 7.30 hours you
> can have a 3-hour lunch if you insist. Then again some days you wait for
> three hours to wait for the big machine to churn and get miscellaneous
> zilch error messages for an answer. Or then the EDAserver goes dead or
> then...
>

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
Erik A. Mattila wrote:
>
> California labor requires a morning and afternoon break, 15 minutes each (or it
> could be 10, I can't remember) plus a 30 minute lunch. What Martha is
> describing seems to be pretty common, but it is illegal (whose going to police
> this?) If an employee complains, she/he is likely to lose the job.
It's not even losing one's job. It is more common that one has a project
to get finished by a particularly unrealistic time and everyone is in
"fire drill" mode. This happens a lot where I work because it's a big
company. Here's now it happens: Some Higher Up takes forever to make the
decision that the project will happen (no doubt finding ways to cover
their own ass!), and then they're panicky to finally get it done,
because they've taken too long deciding whether to do it or not. So, the
load is on you. You won't lose your job if you don't finish it, you'll
just have to deal with some unpleasantness.

It seems
> that most lawyers who specialize in Labor Law and employment discrimination are
> those who will advise employers how to screw their workers and get away with
> it. And the EEOC is so backlogged with cases, plus having their staff cut back
> to about 35% of the 1995 level, that they will tell you 'get your own lawyer
> (which is pretty hard to do since you are unemployed.) So people just work
> instead of taking coffee breaks, and work out there hostilities in other ways,
> like low productivity, day dreaming, etc.

But you know, going to court over something is usually not a good course
of action because you'll have to take unpaid time off work, deal with
attorneys, and all sorts of ugliness.
>
> Erik Mattila


>
> Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
>
> > Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > : I work at a very large corporation where they don't supply us with
> > : coffee, we have to buy our own. So, I bring in a coffee maker to save
> > : some money.
> >
> > : One of the reasons why we Americans are always eating on the run,
> > : drinking coffee of the run, etc., is that we work 8 hours + a day. Many
> > : of us nowdays don't get much of a lunch break as well.
> >

> > In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
> > contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
stefan wrote:

>
> In article <379A8F...@pacbell.net>, bast...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> > Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
>
> > > They say that in "the good old days" during these daily coffee breaks
> > > employees gathered together to drink coffee and discuss the hottest gossips.
> > > However, at least among IT professionals it is very common these days
> > > that evyrybody simply has too much work to do, and not enough time to
> > > have a "real" coffee break. So it's more common to drink one's coffee at the
> > > work desk. Of course it takes a while to walk to the coffee pot to get
> > > coffee, but we have that 15min per day allowance :-).
> >
> > None of my friends in Norway work as many hours as we Americans do.
> > Perhaps this is not the norm, but I seem to think it is. My friend who
> > is a computer programmer for the Norwegian government works 8 'til 3pm
> > in the summer, 8-4pm in the winter, with two 1/2 hour breaks during the
> > day. AND, he gets a starting vacation time of 4 weeks. No one in the
> > U.S. has that kind of deal, except for maybe the MUNI bus drivers.
>
> My wife just got hired with 4 weeks paid vacation - and she definitely
> does not drive a bus (one of her aunts do in the Bay Area though)...

That is very, and I must reiterate, very unusual in the U.S.

Dave C

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:

Utter nonsense. Peets is nothing but a trying-to-be-Starbucks coffee house
that didn't make it. Their coffee sucks, too, Martha. Sorry.

To answer the original posters query, Starbucks will do just fine in Sweden;
it can cater to the horde of American tourists.

Dave C.

Electric Avenue

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to

B. Thober wrote about coffee-drinking:

>No m'am. I will stick with Mcdonald/starbucks.. thanks.


Aren't you at all afraid that our friends and family might find out?

«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Dave C

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:

> HWM wrote:
> >
> > Martha Hughes wrote:
> >

> > > San Francisco is known for its great strong coffee. I'm a fan of french
> > > roast myself, but a good espresso now and then is definitely a pleasure.
> >
> > Ok, next time I'll think of career moves SanFran gets a plus point.
> > My only experiences of California were small towns on the Nevada border,
> > such as Trona and then Death Valley. Of LA I've seen the airport... I
> > think I ought to visit, though all these flaky tv series as 90210 filmed
> > there make me want not to.
>
> 90210 was filmed in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, as in LOS ANGELES, NOT San
> Francisco!!! There is a HUGE difference. We Northern Californians detest
> being in the same sentence as So Cal! There are no similarities. Now,
> since you haven't been here, but I have been to Scandinavia, why are you
> commenting on how strong our coffee is? Seems kinda silly, since you
> don't know what the heck you're talking about!
> >
> > 'oh when you go to san fransisco, remember to wear some vaseline in your
> > ass'
>
> Oh, very funny......
>

> > Cheers, | The conformity of purpose will be achieved |
> > HWM | through the mutual satisfaction of requirements.|
> > ==> hen...@GNWmail.com & http://www.softavenue.fi/u/henry.w

Martha is just another snooty San Franciscan who thinks anything about or from
LA is beneath her. I grew up in her neck of the woods, across the Bay in
Berkeley, and I can tell you LA is the capitol of the state economically,
culturally, and politically. SF is little more than a tourist town now.
Without the tourists coming in to ogle the great views of the bay, SF would be
dead. The city has some good restaurants, and plenty of Starbuck's coffee shops
around town to get a decent cup of coffee, but that's about it.

Dave C.


Electric Avenue

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to

HWM wrote:
>The most popular 'coffee shops' in Helsinki seem to be
>the gas stations...

I hope you don't smoke while you drink!

>I still long for a Cuban coffee now and then.


If you have a chance, try Kona coffee. It's grown in the Kona
district, on the southwest side of the island of Hawaii, the largest and
southernmost island in the Hawaiian chain. The soil and climatic conditions
are probably similar to Cuba, and Kona coffee has an
excellent reputation among U.S. coffee drinkers. (But despite that,
it's still very good coffee. :) ) The luxury hotels and expensive
restaurants in Hawaii always feature Kona coffee for their guests.
Along with Maui onions, of course.


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Dave C

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:

> Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
> >
> > Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > : I work at a very large corporation where they don't supply us with
> > : coffee, we have to buy our own. So, I bring in a coffee maker to save
> > : some money.
> >
> > : One of the reasons why we Americans are always eating on the run,
> > : drinking coffee of the run, etc., is that we work 8 hours + a day. Many
> > : of us nowdays don't get much of a lunch break as well.
> >
> > In nordic countries there are workers unions that negotiate general
> > contracts with employers unions, and at least in Finland AFAIK these
> > include 15min coffee break at afternoon. Because of this, work places
> > usually (if not allways) have a coffee maker provided by the company.
> > And some coffee of course, however companies may charge employees a small
> > sum of money for a cup of coffee.
> >

> > They say that in "the good old days" during these daily coffee breaks
> > employees gathered together to drink coffee and discuss the hottest gossips.
> > However, at least among IT professionals it is very common these days
> > that evyrybody simply has too much work to do, and not enough time to
> > have a "real" coffee break. So it's more common to drink one's coffee at the
> > work desk. Of course it takes a while to walk to the coffee pot to get
> > coffee, but we have that 15min per day allowance :-).
>
> None of my friends in Norway work as many hours as we Americans do.
> Perhaps this is not the norm, but I seem to think it is. My friend who
> is a computer programmer for the Norwegian government works 8 'til 3pm
> in the summer, 8-4pm in the winter, with two 1/2 hour breaks during the
> day. AND, he gets a starting vacation time of 4 weeks. No one in the
> U.S. has that kind of deal, except for maybe the MUNI bus drivers.

Right, and every time I go to SF I read in the Chronicle about how bad the MUNI
is!

Dave C

Electric Avenue

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to

HWM wrote:
>Ok, next time I'll think of career moves SanFran gets a plus point.

But the cost of housing is a double negative!

>My only experiences of California were small towns on the Nevada
>border, such as Trona and then Death Valley.

Yes, those are typical California towns. :)

>Of LA I've seen the airport...

Yes, that's a typical California town, too. :)

>I think I ought to visit, though all these flaky tv series as 90210
>filmed there make me want not to.

On the other hand, there are a couple world class museums
in Los Angeles. (Which I never go to.) And a world class freeway
system. (Where I park my car every day.) And then there is
Electric Avenue in Venice... (Where I wouldn't go at night.)

>'oh when you go to san fransisco, remember to wear some
>vaseline in your ass'


You got *that* right!


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Electric Avenue

unread,
Jul 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/24/99
to

Martha Hughes wrote:
>90210 was filmed in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, as in LOS ANGELES,
>NOT San Francisco!!! There is a HUGE difference. We Northern
>Californians detest being in the same sentence as So Cal!
>There are no similarities.

Martha is right. "90210" is the postal zip code for Beverly
Hills, a city in L.A. County. And the TV series is not really about
students in Beverly Hills High School, but what the rest of the
country would believe about the students at Beverly Hills High.
Although many people say that San Francisco is "European" in
feeling in its tight quarters, good public transportation system and
chilly foggy weather, it seems to me that most Europeans coming
to California come to Southern California. That seems to be
especially true of Scandinavians. I'm not sure why, but I guess that
they like the weather better in L.A.


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

JPivenov

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
did someone say "merkin coffee" way back there? does merkin have some other
meaning i don't know about?

thanks

HWM

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:

> 90210 was filmed in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, as in LOS ANGELES, NOT San
> Francisco!!! There is a HUGE difference. We Northern Californians detest

> being in the same sentence as So Cal! There are no similarities. Now,
> since you haven't been here, but I have been to Scandinavia, why are you
> commenting on how strong our coffee is? Seems kinda silly, since you
> don't know what the heck you're talking about!

Well, as you 'merkins tend to add all the Nordic countries all together
I do not think it would make shit of a difference if a film was made in
Lapland or in Malmö. Then again point taken, I should not comment on the
coffee in _San Fransisco_ if I haven't been there to drink. On the other
hand I have been all the time, in case you have not noticed, talking of
the _U.S._ in general. Now even if I've gotten a shitty cup of coffee in
Stockholm a couple times I won't be hollering that Swedish coffee is
bad. Now as I've visited the US on a few occasions travelling all over I
have gotten a decent cup of coffee maybe... yup, once, in Miami Beach.
And that does make me hollering that 'merkins can't do coffee the same
way we holler 'merkins can't do beer although they even have started to
import these microbrewery beers here (and they are good).
Generalizations are generalizations, you need to differentiate such from
specific issues. As 'coffee' a general category from 'merkin coffee' a
subdivision of bad tea. ;-)

Actually I drink a lot of tea as well. Anyone UKoGBaNIans want to
comment on Finnish tea?

HWM

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Dave C wrote:

> To answer the original posters query, Starbucks will do just fine in Sweden;
> it can cater to the horde of American tourists.

But are they willing to pay 3x the price than in the states?

--

HWM

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Electric Avenue wrote:

> Martha is right. "90210" is the postal zip code for Beverly
> Hills, a city in L.A. County.

And the zip codes 90211 and 90212 as well if I remember correctly. Some
Beverlyhillsians who now live in 90210 area get peeved if someone does
not recognize that zip automatically, but then again those who live in
the off-tv-zip area are very keen to make sure the zip is _definitely
not_ 90210.

And should I then say that I have seen images of San Fransisco as well
on tv. First images were from the ancient cop series with the guy with
the humongous nose and his sidekick. (Streets of San Fransisco?) I
remember seeing Arnold in one of his first acting roles after his
bodybuilding title. And of course the seedier environs have been
familiarized in another set of my favourite movies... 'now you ask
yourself, punk, do I feel lucky?' But I suppose the public transport
system is so good because everybody with a car drives as in 'Bullit'?

What I was trying to convey is the image given by these tv series is a
bit...flaky. And you get a lot of series situated in California. Then
reading the news on the AC manufacturer getting sued because someone
farted in the car etc. -all situated in CA, somewhat adds up to the
'Granola State' image. Personally I noticed that the bureaucracy in
Nevada was much less uptight than in CA.

But alas, Silicone Valley is there next to Silicone Beach. And the
weather is desirable. Who in their right mind would move from one
snowzone to another ( eh, stefan? ).

Jarkko H Tolvanen

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
: Perhaps this is not the norm, but I seem to think it is. My friend who

: is a computer programmer for the Norwegian government works 8 'til 3pm
: in the summer, 8-4pm in the winter, with two 1/2 hour breaks during the
: day. AND, he gets a starting vacation time of 4 weeks. No one in the
: U.S. has that kind of deal, except for maybe the MUNI bus drivers.

This is true in govermental institutes, where they obey these negotiated
working times and contracts just as they are.

However many private corporates have "a company policy", that when a deadline
is approaching employees work longer in order to meet the deadline... for
programmes it can easily be 10 hours per day for a week or so, including
Saturday. Then when the project is finished it will be easier for a
while. For example my cousin worked for a company where it was not
unusual that a project meeting started at 6pm during these hectic weeks
before the deadline, and they still expected employees to start around 9am
at latest.

And again, I'm talking about Finland, as I haven't really been in Norway
either :-).

Erik A. Mattila

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Well, what hasn't been mentioned is "California Fascism." This is a
theoretical concept bantered about by social scientists in the university
system here. It's all about youth fashion cults, obsessive physical
fitness, young hardbodies on rollerblades, two thousand dollar bicycles,
healthclubs, and the list goes on and on. I read an interview with Cheech
and Chong were Tommy Cong's main critique of Kalifornia Kulture was that
nobody finished their meals at a restaurant, since it was the style to
always pretend that you are full after a couple of bites - conspicuouls
waste. The problem is that the 'beautiful people' who are exposed to the
phrase are always shocked and outraged, since they know nothing about the
history of übermenshen.

Erik Mattila

HWM

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:

> > It used to be two ten-minute "smoking breaks" as I recall.
>
> Studies (by whom, who knows?) show that smokers work less hours than
> non-smokers in the U.S., because the smokers have to leave their desks
> more often and go outside and smoke. Will this lead to discrimination
> against smokers? I don't know.

All the job interviews I have been to they ask always: "Do you smoke?".
This I am not sure if it means they are discriminating against smokers
because they have to run outside all the time (indoor smoking these days
is a luxury indeed) or due to possible health insurance risks (which do
not apply in Finland to that extent though).

I think I ought to add to my Demon&Soul interview:
DEMON: Do you smoke?
SOUL: No, I only use intervenous.

HWM

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
JPivenov wrote:
>
> did someone say "merkin coffee" way back there? does merkin have some other
> meaning i don't know about?

What meaning you don't know about? 'twas supposed to be 'merkin though.
Used as in 'merkin vs. yurpeen. [American vs. European] Something to do
with how AOLers spell and/or pronounce. Other meaning is ...not in
merriam-webster? Dang!

HWM

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Electric Avenue wrote:
> >The most popular 'coffee shops' in Helsinki seem to be
> >the gas stations...
>
> I hope you don't smoke while you drink!

No worries, employers must go outside to smoke anyhow. There's a bin by
the exit usually.And regarding exploding cell phones, the car wash works
as a vending machine you need to call a number to make it work. And I
saw this machine at the local Esso ... go figure.

Electric Avenue

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to

HWM wrote:
>What meaning you don't know about? 'twas supposed to be 'merkin
>though. Used as in 'merkin vs. yurpeen.

Sheesh! No wonder they kicked you out of sci.lang! ;-)


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Electric Avenue

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to

B. Thober wrote:
>Starbucks btw used to carry kona.. but it was found
>that they were really just passing off some blend of coffee
>that had only 10% actual kona coffee beans.

No wonder Martha calls it "StarFucks"!

BTW, Bryan, what are you doing up at this ungodly hour?
Are you tracking down the spammers like I am? Or has your
coffee given you insomnia?


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
> > > No m'am. I will stick with Mcdonald/starbucks.. thanks.
> > >
> > > Bryan Thober
> > > <az...@lafn.org>
> > > Los Angeles, California U.S.A.
> > > http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bthober/
> >
> > Yes, I do live off coffee! But NOT Starbucks! When they started invading
> > S.F., Starbucks had to make their coffee stronger for San Franciscans to
> > accept it. Seattle make have more coffee places, but SF likes it
> > stronger.
> >
> > I do support local merchants, such as Peets. They have much, much better
> > coffee anyway.
> >
> > Which reminds me...I'm OUT of the wonderful stuff this morning and have
> > to drink tea...ug!
>
> Utter nonsense. Peets is nothing but a trying-to-be-Starbucks coffee house
> that didn't make it. Their coffee sucks, too, Martha. Sorry.
>
> To answer the original posters query, Starbucks will do just fine in Sweden;
> it can cater to the horde of American tourists.
>
> Dave C.

We'll agree to disagree, I love Peets. Dave. Sorry.

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Dave C wrote:
>
> Martha Hughes wrote:
>
> > HWM wrote:
> > >
> > > Martha Hughes wrote:
> > >
> > > > San Francisco is known for its great strong coffee. I'm a fan of french
> > > > roast myself, but a good espresso now and then is definitely a pleasure.
> > >
> > > Ok, next time I'll think of career moves SanFran gets a plus point.
> > > My only experiences of California were small towns on the Nevada border,
> > > such as Trona and then Death Valley. Of LA I've seen the airport... I

> > > think I ought to visit, though all these flaky tv series as 90210 filmed
> > > there make me want not to.
> >
> > 90210 was filmed in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, as in LOS ANGELES, NOT San
> > Francisco!!! There is a HUGE difference. We Northern Californians detest
> > being in the same sentence as So Cal! There are no similarities. Now,
> > since you haven't been here, but I have been to Scandinavia, why are you
> > commenting on how strong our coffee is? Seems kinda silly, since you
> > don't know what the heck you're talking about!
> > >
> > > 'oh when you go to san fransisco, remember to wear some vaseline in your
> > > ass'
> >
> > Oh, very funny......

> >
> > > Cheers, | The conformity of purpose will be achieved |
> > > HWM | through the mutual satisfaction of requirements.|
> > > ==> hen...@GNWmail.com & http://www.softavenue.fi/u/henry.w
>
> Martha is just another snooty San Franciscan who thinks anything about or from
> LA is beneath her. I grew up in her neck of the woods, across the Bay in
> Berkeley, and I can tell you LA is the capitol of the state economically,
> culturally, and politically. SF is little more than a tourist town now.
> Without the tourists coming in to ogle the great views of the bay, SF would be
> dead. The city has some good restaurants, and plenty of Starbuck's coffee shops
> around town to get a decent cup of coffee, but that's about it.
>
> Dave C.

Dave, you know nothing about me. Don't think that you do.

Electric Avenue

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Electric Avenue is so funny that he has to explain his jokes:
HWM wrote in message <379ADFF0...@gnwmail.com>...

>Electric Avenue wrote:
>> >The most popular 'coffee shops' in Helsinki seem to be
>> >the gas stations...
>>
>> I hope you don't smoke while you drink!
>
>No worries, employers must go outside to smoke anyhow.

HWM is either very funny or very dense. :) I was referring to the
strength of the coffee - it can be both a beverage and an auto fuel.


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»

Martha Hughes

unread,
Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
stefan wrote:
>
> In article <7nec01$nic$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Electric Avenue"
> <互猾せカせ互� wrote:

>
> > Martha Hughes wrote:
> > >90210 was filmed in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, as in LOS ANGELES,
> > >NOT San Francisco!!! There is a HUGE difference. We Northern
> > >Californians detest being in the same sentence as So Cal!
> > >There are no similarities.
> >
> > Martha is right. "90210" is the postal zip code for Beverly
> > Hills, a city in L.A. County. And the TV series is not really about
> > students in Beverly Hills High School, but what the rest of the
> > country would believe about the students at Beverly Hills High.
> > Although many people say that San Francisco is "European" in
> > feeling in its tight quarters, good public transportation system and
> > chilly foggy weather, it seems to me that most Europeans coming
> > to California come to Southern California. That seems to be
> > especially true of Scandinavians. I'm not sure why, but I guess that
> > they like the weather better in L.A.
>
> Sometimes I think I would prefer the attitudes of SoCal to those of
> self-righteous, and "oh so sophisticated" uppity snot-noses in San
> Fran... The "we are just better than you" attitude is not very appealing.

>
> --
> stefan, valley of the sun

I don't like the San Franciscans who have that attitude either. If you
think I am like that, then you are 100% wrong. The people with the worst
attitudes up here weren't even born here!!!! They're the ones who have
moved here from Los Angeles or the East Coast usually.

Martha Hughes

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
stefan wrote:
>
> In article <7ne9mf$j7d$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Electric Avenue"
> <互猾せカせ互� wrote:

>
> > HWM wrote:
> > >Ok, next time I'll think of career moves SanFran gets a plus point.
> >
> > But the cost of housing is a double negative!
>
> We're just waiting for that junk to shatter and fall in the ocean when the
> big one hits and we'll have prime beachfront property here in AZ.

Us natives are waiting for the next "Big One" to scare folks away so
that housing costs will go down a little. It's outta control!


>
> --
> stefan, valley of the sun
>

HWM

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Electric Avenue wrote:

> HWM is either very funny or very dense. :) I was referring to the
> strength of the coffee - it can be both a beverage and an auto fuel.

Hmmm... you missed the exploding cell phone bit then as well? Exxon I
believe has these signs to turn off the cell phone. They now employ
zit-faced store clerks who drink only Pepsi to avoid further combustion
outdoors.

And yes, we call it 'diesel' here but it needs to have this oily slick
on top of it. Preferrably something that has been simmering on the hot
plate thru the night.

HWM

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
"B. Thober" wrote:

> If I could hit a gas-station like the one in Finland HWM is talking
> about

You can get everything else at a gas station these days except parts to
a car or service.

>I could work 3 jobs with no problem.

Yup, you'd need the third job to pay off the taxes of the two.

> It is just another conspiracy like why some Euro's have ozone therapy as an option
> and we do not because the FDA won't accept its proven results. ;)

And we get this hormone beef trouble because EU won't accept it before
FDA proves it has _no_ proven results. FDA says we need to prove it has
some results. Go figure.

> (very high sarcasm btw!!!)
Indeed.

BTW do you guys have this laughing gas and oxygen treatment at the
bettyford -clinics. Supposed to be top of the pops for boozers. Said to
prevent seeing little people after a binge.

Claes-Göran Lindqvist

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Reminds me of what we in Sweden call "Wild West" coffee.
Mix coffee and water, boil it and put a horse-shoe into the mix.
If it sinks then put in more coffee...
Regards
Claes-Göran Lindqvist
Electric Avenue <Electric_Y...@Privacy.NuXX> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:7nd4n1$rmp$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Martha Hughes wrote:
> >I've had coffee in Scandinavia and I've had coffee in the U.S. Maybe
> >you're talking about the crappy "Folger's" type, but our better brands
> >taste much better than what I had over there. Ours is much stronger.
>
> Oy, oy, oy! *Stronger*? Little lady, do you jest? Pad on down
> to your nearest nordic foodshop, you know the kind - where the
> homesick Swedes and their brethren go. *Gently* grab some Gävalia
> coffee. Pay the outlandish price for this outlandish explosive, and
> *gently* carry it home in a well-padded container. Brew some of this
> stuff in your friend's chemistry lab. Keep the windows closed or
> Nordics will come running to get some from places miles downwind of
> you. Use about, oh, 4 tablespoons per cup of water.
> When the soup is ready, no part of a spoon dipped into it should
> be visible. If it is not absolutely opaque, it is too weak. Try stirring
> it.
> If the spoon handle handle doesn't break, it's still probably too weak.
> Put in more Gävalia.
> When it's finally ready, you will already be shaking. House flies
will
> be doing supersonic kamikazi shots into the wall. Put on a motorcycle
> crash helmet. Get a glob of this black stuff with your least favorite
> finger, and put it into your mouth. That buzzing you hear is in your
> head. Quickly drink some before you splash it all over the room.
> Mmmmmm. Good, huh? Now you will know why I said to wear a
> crash helmet! You will stop bouncing off the walls in about 4 hours.
>
>
> «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
> .....Electric.....
> «¤»§«¤»¥«¤»
>
>
>
>

Electric Avenue

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to

HWM wrote:
>Hmmm... you missed the exploding cell phone bit then as well? Exxon I
>believe has these signs to turn off the cell phone

He's funny! I was afraid of that. :-(

But at least now I know how to rub out a Finnish business
competitor - call him on his cellular during his coffee break. Boom!


«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
.....Electric.....
«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»


Eric J

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:

>
> stefan wrote:
> >
> > Sometimes I think I would prefer the attitudes of SoCal to those of
> > self-righteous, and "oh so sophisticated" uppity snot-noses in San
> > Fran... The "we are just better than you" attitude is not very appealing.
>
> I don't like the San Franciscans who have that attitude either. If you
> think I am like that, then you are 100% wrong. The people with the worst
> attitudes up here weren't even born here!!!! They're the ones who have
> moved here from Los Angeles or the East Coast usually.

Of course...


Eric J.

Eric J

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to
Martha Hughes wrote:
>
> stefan wrote:
> >
> > bast...@pacbell.net wrote:
> >
> > > None of my friends in Norway work as many hours as we Americans do.
> > > Perhaps this is not the norm, but I seem to think it is. My friend who
> > > is a computer programmer for the Norwegian government works 8 'til 3pm
> > > in the summer, 8-4pm in the winter, with two 1/2 hour breaks during the
> > > day. AND, he gets a starting vacation time of 4 weeks. No one in the
> > > U.S. has that kind of deal, except for maybe the MUNI bus drivers.
> >
> > My wife just got hired with 4 weeks paid vacation - and she definitely
> > does not drive a bus (one of her aunts do in the Bay Area though)...
>
> That is very, and I must reiterate, very unusual in the U.S.

When I completed my 15th year at the Postal Service, I received *5*
weeks vacation. Just another "unuaual" example.


Eric J.

Thomson McFarlane

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
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HWM <henry.wEGGS_&_S...@gnwmail.com> wrote in message
news:379AB65D...@gnwmail.com...
[snip]

> Actually I drink a lot of tea as well. Anyone UKoGBaNIans
want to
> comment on Finnish tea?
>

Couple of comments. Tea doesn't taste the same all over the
UK as the type and quality
of water differs.

I am a Scot and found when I lived in the Netherlands, that
even when I pinched a
packet of tea from my mother's, I still couldn't get a
decent taste - again water.

In Finland it was quite a revelation to be able to get a
much better, close to home
taste. I think the tea sold is different and it needs more
time to get it strong enough,
when comparing to using tea I have brought back from
Scotland.

Another difference is that Finns, as most Europeans, tend to
drink tea black, and
much weaker than we would in Scotland. I also find Finns
have a greater liking for
teas with fruity tastes &c.. which I personally don't like.

Thomson


--
------------------------------------------------------------
----------
"Oh wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursel's as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
And foolish notion." Rabbie Burns

Thomson McFarlane

thomson....@valmet.com
tm...@sci.fi

All my opinions are my own, wholly my own and nothing but my
own.
------------------------------------------------------------
----------


Thomson McFarlane

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
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Jarkko H Tolvanen <jhto...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:7nei6u$bil$1...@oravannahka.Helsinki.FI...
> Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> : Perhaps this is not the norm, but I seem to think it is.

My friend who
> : is a computer programmer for the Norwegian government
works 8 'til 3pm
> : in the summer, 8-4pm in the winter, with two 1/2 hour
breaks during the
> : day. AND, he gets a starting vacation time of 4 weeks.
No one in the
> : U.S. has that kind of deal, except for maybe the MUNI
bus drivers.
>
> This is true in govermental institutes, where they obey
these negotiated
> working times and contracts just as they are.
>
> However many private corporates have "a company policy",
that when a deadline
> is approaching employees work longer in order to meet the
deadline... for
> programmes it can easily be 10 hours per day for a week or
so, including
> Saturday. Then when the project is finished it will be
easier for a
> while. For example my cousin worked for a company where it
was not
> unusual that a project meeting started at 6pm during these
hectic weeks
> before the deadline, and they still expected employees to
start around 9am
> at latest.
>
> And again, I'm talking about Finland, as I haven't really
been in Norway
> either :-).

The company I work for, quite often, has had to ask for
dispensations from the
authorities, because we go over the overtime limits, heavy
workload and
again project work, being the reasons.
Additionally, we work a flexi-system, and most people are
carrying plus hours,
not because they are forced to work them, people do to get a
job done or to
build up hours so that they can take them when they need
some extra free
hours.
Again, this is in Finland.

Thomson McFarlane

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Jul 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/25/99
to

Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:379A90...@pacbell.net...
> HWM wrote:
> >
> > Jarkko H Tolvanen wrote:
> >
> > > In nordic countries there are workers unions that
negotiate general
> > > contracts with employers unions, and at least in
Finland AFAIK these
> > > include 15min coffee break at afternoon.

> >
> > It used to be two ten-minute "smoking breaks" as I
recall.
>
> Studies (by whom, who knows?) show that smokers work less
hours than
> non-smokers in the U.S., because the smokers have to leave
their desks
> more often and go outside and smoke. Will this lead to
discrimination
> against smokers? I don't know.
>
I remember one female colleague who got quite pissed of on
hearing such.
She maintained that we covered quite a bit of work related
stuff during
such breaks, particularly getting to know what people on
other projects
were doing as that could provide help in solving problems in
our own
projects.

She further thought that why should smokers get it, when
many of our female
workers would spend quite a bit of time gossiping in the
toilets. Never having
visited the female toilets, I can only go on this hearsay.
Not trying to be sexist, but guys don't seem to spend any
appreciable time in
the toilet.

With e-mail and all the other modern conveniences, it seems
people speak
to each other less and less. Having coffee breaks and
nipping into the smoking
room at least maintains some semblance of human contact.

Erik A. Mattila

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
to
No, Martha'a right. What destroyed SF was the emigrant population that poured in
since 1945, primarily from the East Coast. When ever you hear someone griping
about 'The City" they are usually from Connecticut or Jersey. I grew up
commuting between LA and SF, since my mother lived in the south and my father in
the north. I was raised on the rivalry between the two -- which is quite
humorous, really.

SF was a wonderful place until about 1965, when it began to sour due to the
massive urbanization of the Bay Area. All sorts of suburbs sprang up where there
were salt marshes, apricot orchards and cattle ranches. The cold war drove a
massive defense industry that employed millions. LA did the same thing. The
farmlands in the south where I used to play in as a child are all city now. We
used to buy our milk at dairys -- you know, with real cows. The Los Angeles
River used to have a sandy bottom with frogs and fish in the water -- a great
place for kids. Now it is concrete. Today, there is little difference between
the two places. They both are wonderful in their way, and they both suck.

As for the snoots and snobs, they're everywhere. The ones in LA say SF is full
of pseudo-intellectuals, while the ones in SF say LA is full of plastic culture.
But if you look at the California economy and geographics, SF (with no real land
base) has always been an administrative center (a paperwork city) while LA, with
a huge land base, a manufacturing center. This means that SF has had in the past
a higher per capita education rate than LA. But none of this is true any
longer. Now it's all 'one' (Ohmmmmm).

Erik Mattila

stefan wrote:

> Yeah, blame it on someone else. "Real" SF people just can't be that way :)

Nick Smith

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
to
Why do you guys hate Starbucks so much? I mean MacDonalds would seem
to me to be far more hateable.

For example, the British franchise had their staff dressed in Tartan
in order to make them seem more "Scottish" in line with their name but
is wasn't even the MacDonalds tartan - I can't stand this sort of
bullshit and thus will never eat at McDonalds ever!!@!!!@@#!@##

Nik

Matz Bjurström

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
to
Well, not as if it's like Swedish coffee, but it _IS_ the best coffee americans can make, so it may be a salvation for them to teach up the other suckers over there.....:-)

--
Cheers
 
Matz Bjurström
Sweden
Martha Hughes <bast...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:379964...@pacbell.net...
Mustacchia wrote:
>
> Hello, I am enrolled in an International marketing class at the
> University of Houston and we are working on a project.  We have a class
> project in which we are to supposedly export a product to another
> country and write a report on it.  We have selected Sweden as our
> country and our product is Starbucks Coffee.  My professor said he
> would like to know if the people in Sweden would be receptive to this
> type of specialty coffee retailers.  Since I have never been to Sweden
> I have been looking on the internet for related topics.  Does anyone
> have any feedback as to whether or not Starbucks could actually make it
> in Sweden?  Are there any specialty coffee shops in Sweden already?
>
> Thanks for your help.  I'd appreciate any feedback!
>
> Patty

Oh, the sheer evilness of this post Patty is beyond words. How DARE you
for even suggesting that you would have a hand at polluting an innocent
country like Sweden with Starf**ks!

Starbucks is the epitome of chain-store pollution. They move in,
destroying the local businesses. They take money away from the families
who have had their stores for decades. They take the money sometimes out
of the country, even. Every Starfucks looks the same, every starfucks
serve the same drinks. It's digusting! It may be just a fun little
project to you, but it could be the end of many Swedish businesses. I
say DIE STARBUCKS, DIE!!!!!!

> --
> Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
> Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).