Danish doors are lethal
ElectricAvenue
soon after I got to Denmark for the first time. I was leaving a
bank, and I saw that the door was slightly ajar. I figured the
door swung both ways and I walked up to it and pushed it,
figuring it would open outward. Blam! Almost flattened my
face. Since then, I approach doors in Scandinavia with a high
degree of suspicion. I never know which way the door will
open.
Last month, while catching a quiet bite of Americana at the
Burger King across from Tivoli, I saw a 40-ish woman stride
toward the door and push on it. It wouldn't open. She tried
the one next to it. It, too, wouldn't budge. Then a Danish man
walked up to the door from the outside and gently pushed the
first door open, saying with a smile, "This is Denmark!" He knew
she wasn't Danish just by seeing that single act.
How does the Danish government allow this? Doesn't it
realize what a safetly hazard this is? I've only been in one town
in Scandinavia where it would be dangerous to have doors open
outward - Visby in Gotland - because the streets are so narrow.
Otherwise, I can't think of any reason why tradition should
overshadow the danger inherent in doors in public places opening
only inward. What happens during a fire in Denmark? Does
everyone step back so that someone can open the door? Is this
an attempt at population reduction?
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Osmo Ronkanen
ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXX> wrote:
> How come Danish doors open inward?
As I understand this is the general norm. I think it isa stupid. It
makes easy to break in and hard to break out. I think in some old doors
one could open the door from hinges if it opened outward.
Osmo
Otto-Ville Ronkainen
> In article <6nzv4.1498$Ab1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXX> wrote:
> > How come Danish doors open inward?
> As I understand this is the general norm.
Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
According to the legend, some king decreed that all outer doors
should open outwards after a considerable amount of people died
in a church fire because of insufficient door throughput.
> I think it isa stupid.
Yep.
Electric Avenue
"Otto-Ville Ronkainen" wrote:
> Osmo Ronkanen writes:
> > ElectricAvenue wrote:
> > > How come Danish doors open inward?
>
> > As I understand this is the general norm.
>
> Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
It sounds like the tradition is Danish, then, because I seem to
remember that the doors opened inward in Norway, too. Since
Scania is included, that makes it in the area of maximum Danish
influence. Danes! Forget the immigrants, your doors are the
biggest threat!
************
ElectricAvenue
************
HRH1962
>ronk...@cc.helsinki.fi (Osmo Ronkanen) writes:
>> In article <6nzv4.1498$Ab1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>> ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXX> wrote:
>> > How come Danish doors open inward?
>
>> As I understand this is the general norm.
>
>Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
>According to the legend, some king decreed that all outer doors
>should open outwards after a considerable amount of people died
>in a church fire because of insufficient door throughput.
There was a similar situation in the US in the 1940s - something like 400
people died in a fire at the Coconut Grove nightclub in Boston because the main
exits/entrances were revolving doors and people got caught inside, stopping
escape for everyone else. Since then, all revolving doors in the US have to
have regular (push out to exit) doors beside them. I can imagine some serious
trouble occurring because of inward-opening doors.
--
Heather Henderson
HRH...@aol.com / hea...@scc.net
http://scc.net/~heather
Jens Jensen
Electric Avenue wrote:
>
> "Otto-Ville Ronkainen" wrote:
> > Osmo Ronkanen writes:
> > > ElectricAvenue wrote:
> > > > How come Danish doors open inward?
> >
> > > As I understand this is the general norm.
> >
> > Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
>
> It sounds like the tradition is Danish, then, because I seem to
> remember that the doors opened inward in Norway, too. Since
> Scania is included, that makes it in the area of maximum Danish
> influence. Danes! Forget the immigrants, your doors are the
> biggest threat!
Ha ha ha! Can't these Danes do ANYTHING right? They truly are
backwards, even their doors.
Outsider
Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
and even then they may not. They still haven't figured out that
musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
see h7 and h#, but no b.
Neither have they discovered ventilation; in Denmark ventilation
consists of running a pipe with holes in it through several rooms
with an opening to the outside. Only within the last two years have
they discovered it is possible to install windows that open in
non-airconditioned busses (no busses here have air), and these are
still only installed in *some* busses, are very small and there are
usually only one or two. The Windows on the "S" trains barely open a
few centemeters and usually can't stay open even that amount without
stuffing something in the opening.
In Danmark you must be continuously punished, regardless of what you
do or don't do. People just go around complacently and say, "Sådan er
det bare". Danes are also totally incapable of understanding customer
service. They make absolutely no connection between the customer and
their salary. To them they are two completely unrelated things,
independent of each other. I often wonder how the country can function
at all. As long as you speak English you will be treated reasonably well,
because you will be considered a tourist who comes, spends money and
leaves -as long as there are no problems. As soon as you have any problems
with products or services, you will quickly become 'the enemy' and all
that nice treatment will vanish. If you start speaking Danish you will
receive worse treatment because then people will know you are not a
turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in some cases probably
will tell you to "go home".
Sådan er det bare.
--
Regards,
Outsider
"Don't overestimate the decency of the human race." -- H.L. Mencken
ElectricAvenue
"Jens Jensen" wrote:
>
> Electric Avenue wrote:
> >
> > "Otto-Ville Ronkainen" wrote:
> > > Osmo Ronkanen writes:
> > > > > How come Danish doors open inward?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
> >
> > It sounds like the tradition is Danish, then, because I seem to
> > remember that the doors opened inward in Norway, too. Since
> > Scania is included, that makes it in the area of maximum Danish
> > influence. Danes! Forget the immigrants, your doors are the
> > biggest threat!
>
>
> Ha ha ha! Can't these Danes do ANYTHING right? They truly are
> backwards, even their doors.
Jens -
You sound as if you didn't know about the doors.
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Colin Rosenthal
Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Danes are also totally incapable of understanding customer
>service. They make absolutely no connection between the customer and
>their salary.
I love Denmark, but that part is pretty accurate.
Incidentally the building where I work has doors which open
inwards. Is that the influence of centuries of Danish rule? You
also need a keycard to get out after hours. According to rumour,
they are designed to open automatically in the event of a fire. I
can imagine.
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
Mikko Silvonen
> According to the legend, some king decreed that all outer doors
> should open outwards after a considerable amount of people died
> in a church fire because of insufficient door throughput.
Replace "some king" with "the Emperor of Russia and Grand Duke of
Finland" and "a church fire" with "at least two cases of panic in
Finnish churches," and you have a true story of what happened in Finland
in the 19th century. At least that's what I have been told.
--
Mikko Silvonen <silv...@iki.fi> http://www.iki.fi/silvonen/
Jens Jensen
Outsider wrote:
>
> Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
> If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
> take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
> and even then they may not. They still haven't figured out that
> musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> see h7 and h#, but no b.
Hi...Yes this is true...When I saw some sheet music my wife had, I said
show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
> Neither have they discovered ventilation; in Denmark ventilation
> consists of running a pipe with holes in it through several rooms
> with an opening to the outside. Only within the last two years have
> they discovered it is possible to install windows that open in
> non-airconditioned busses (no busses here have air), and these are
> still only installed in *some* busses, are very small and there are
> usually only one or two. The Windows on the "S" trains barely open a
> few centemeters and usually can't stay open even that amount without
> stuffing something in the opening.
>
> In Danmark you must be continuously punished, regardless of what you
> do or don't do. People just go around complacently and say, "Sådan er
> det bare". Danes are also totally incapable of understanding customer
> service. They make absolutely no connection between the customer and
> their salary. To them they are two completely unrelated things,
> independent of each other. I often wonder how the country can function
> at all. As long as you speak English you will be treated reasonably well,
> because you will be considered a tourist who comes, spends money and
> leaves -as long as there are no problems. As soon as you have any problems
> with products or services, you will quickly become 'the enemy' and all
> that nice treatment will vanish. If you start speaking Danish you will
> receive worse treatment because then people will know you are not a
> turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in some cases probably
> will tell you to "go home".
>
> Sådan er det bare.
The word "courtesy" is not used in daily life...When my wife and I go to
a restaurant, we always have to "find" the waitress and ask to pay...I
feel like deducting the so called "tip" that's in the bill...The
waitresses here are as cold as the weather. Maybe if the TIP was not in
the bill, there would be more customer service...only maybe.
Jens Jensen
I know all about the doors...the bank doors open BOTH ways at the same
time...how bizarre....
Jens Jensen
Colin Rosenthal wrote:
>
> On Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:19:34 +0100,
> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Danes are also totally incapable of understanding customer
> >service. They make absolutely no connection between the customer and
> >their salary.
>
> I love Denmark, but that part is pretty accurate.
>
> Incidentally the building where I work has doors which open
> inwards. Is that the influence of centuries of Danish rule? You
> also need a keycard to get out after hours. According to rumour,
> they are designed to open automatically in the event of a fire. I
> can imagine.
Well I hope there's a fire extinguisher nearby so you can smash your way
out of the building when your keycard fails.
Ole Kreiberg
<nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Neither have they discovered ventilation; in Denmark ventilation
>consists of running a pipe with holes in it through several rooms
>with an opening to the outside. Only within the last two years have
>they discovered it is possible to install windows that open in
>non-airconditioned busses (no busses here have air), and these are
>still only installed in *some* busses, are very small and there are
>usually only one or two. The Windows on the "S" trains barely open a
>few centemeters and usually can't stay open even that amount without
>stuffing something in the opening.
Grunden til at vinduerne ikke kan åbnes mere i S-togene er, at
hærværksmænd plejede at tage sæderne af og smide dem ud af vinduet.
Før den tid kunne de åbnes helt. Du glemmer også, at det i Danmark
sjældent bliver så varmt som i USA om sommeren, så derfor er kraftig
ventilation i almindelighed ikke nødvendig. Til gengæld har jeg USA
lidt kraftigt under air-conditiondillen. Om vinteren er det derimod så
varmt indendørs, at det er for varmt at have sit vintertøj på, og om
sommeren er det for koldt på grund af den allestedsnærværende
aircondition at have sommertøj på indendørs. Hver gang man så skal ud
i de 30-35 graders varme udenfor får man et varmechok og skal påny til
at vende sig til varmen. Indedørtemperaturen og amerikanernes stive og
bureaukratiske"rules" er det, som jeg tænker tilbage på som den
dårligste oplevelse ved USA.
>. Danes are also totally incapable of understanding customer
>service. They make absolutely no connection between the customer and
>their salary.
Ha ha og det skulle komme fra en amerikaner. Ekspedienter i
amerikanske forretninger plejer som regel at være temmelige uvidende
om de produkter, som de sælger. Det er tydeligt, at der er kraftigt
gennemtræk af personale i amerikanske forretninger - sikkert på grund
af de lave lønninger. I New York er betjeningen som regel enten
direkte uforskammet eller meget uengageret.
> To them they are two completely unrelated things,
>independent of each other. I often wonder how the country can function
>at all. As long as you speak English you will be treated reasonably well,
>because you will be considered a tourist who comes, spends money and
>leaves -as long as there are no problems. As soon as you have any problems
>with products or services, you will quickly become 'the enemy' and all
>that nice treatment will vanish. If you start speaking Danish you will
>receive worse treatment because then people will know you are not a
>turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in some cases probably
>will tell you to "go home".
Skønt jeg taler flydende engelsk, har jeg stadigvæk en svag accent og
taler ihvertfald ikke amerikansk engelsk. Så snart en amerikansk
ekspedient opdager dette, regner vedkommende mig for en vanskelig
kunde, der sikkert og svær at kommunikere med, og som man helst skal
komme af med i en fart.
>Sådan er det bare.
Ole Kreiberg
http://www.patriot.dk
English edition http://www.patriot.dk/English.html
Matz Bjurström
ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXX> wrote in message
news:6nzv4.1498$Ab1....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
How come Danish doors open inward? I noticed this very
soon after I got to Denmark for the first time. I was leaving a
bank, and I saw that the door was slightly ajar. I figured the
door swung both ways and I walked up to it and pushed it,
figuring it would open outward. Blam! Almost flattened my
face. Since then, I approach doors in Scandinavia with a high
degree of suspicion. I never know which way the door will
open.
<snip>
The reason for this (don't know why, I think it's backwards reasoning)
is to make it easier for the Firefighters to crack in doors...
z
Matz Bjurström
Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38BF5976...@yahoo.com...
>
> Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
> If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
> take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
> and even then they may not. They still haven't figured out that
> musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> see h7 and h#, but no b.
>
Aparently your american. 'mericans use b and Europeans use h.
Besides, you have the notes wrong. The Octave starts with the c, thus
the notes are c, d, e, f, g, a, h, c.
z
marku...@hotmail.com
Denmark...the, land, of, ignorance, and, xenophobia! wrote:
>
>
> Outsider wrote:
> > =
>
> > Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
> > If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
> > take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
> > and even then they may not. They still haven't figured out that
> > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> > see h7 and h#, but no b.
>
said
> show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
* * *
Where was the point for laughter? Of course the notes are (in this
order): c,d,e,f,g,a,h. And the notation h7 is fully correct. Finland
has spoken. Ask Sibelius.
m_f
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Per Abrahamsen
> The word "courtesy" is not used in daily life...
Hvis du vil modtage høflighed er du nødt til selv at udvise det,
f.eks. ved at holde op med at krydsposte dine beskeder. Gruppen
soc.culture.nordic har udviklet sig til et lokum, hvor kooks og trolls
prøver at svine hinanden mest muligt til. Hvis du vil have en
tilsvarende gruppe i dk hierarkiet, så brug dk.snak.mudderkastning.
[ XFUT: dk.snak.mudderkastning ]
Niklas Tötterman
<ma...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> The reason for this (don't know why, I think it's backwards reasoning)
> is to make it easier for the Firefighters to crack in doors...
In Uppsala some of the students dorms have the doors opening inwards.
When I asked about this, I was explained that it is a lot easier to
enter the building if you are carrying a lot of stuff (such as
groceries etc.). Makes a kind of a sense. On the other hand, the point
is trivial compared to the firesecurity issues involved.
Anders Engwall
> > They still haven't figured out that
> > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> > see h7 and h#, but no b.
Matz Bjurström:
> Aparently your american. 'mericans use b and Europeans use h.
I believe also the Brits (who may count as Europeans) use b.
The "Danish" notation is German, actually, and it used to be
taught in Sweden as well. However, nowadays b is used in music
education here as well, something that can occasionally lead
to misunderstandings. While it's obvious what "Bb" (pronounced
"bess") and "h" means, the meaning of "b" depends on how old
you are. This is because in German notation, b means a lowered
h, i.e. it's what in English would be notated as Bb. Simple,
huh?
Btw, don't the French use do, re, mi etc?
Outsider
>
> In article <38BF8416...@danmark.dk>,
> Denmark...the, land, of, ignorance, and, xenophobia! wrote:
> >
> >
> > Outsider wrote:
> > > =
> >
> > > Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
> > > If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
> > > take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
> > > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> > > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> > > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> > > see h7 and h#, but no b.
> >
> said
> > show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
>
> * * *
> Where was the point for laughter? Of course the notes are (in this
> order): c,d,e,f,g,a,h. And the notation h7 is fully correct. Finland
> has spoken. Ask Sibelius.
>
> m_f
>
You mean fully incorrect!
The scale matters not. I could use a b c# d e f# g#
The scale consists of the first seven letters of the alphabet, which
are (a b c d e f g). No (h).
marku...@hotmail.com
* * *
The scale consists of c,d,e,f,g,a,h. You can put b up your ass.
http://www.cult.tpu.fi/sound/musa_1.htm
Colin Rosenthal
Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You mean fully incorrect!
>The scale matters not. I could use a b c# d e f# g#
>The scale consists of the first seven letters of the alphabet, which
>are (a b c d e f g). No (h).
What key do you imagine Bach used for his most famous Mass? Or are
you implying that one of the greatest products of human civilization
doesn't actually exist?
Herman Beun
38BFA0EF...@uab.ericsson.se...
> Matz Bjurström:
>
> > Aparently your american. 'mericans use b and Europeans use h.
Nope.
> I believe also the Brits (who may count as Europeans) use b.
So do the Dutch (AFAIK this has always been the case). I always thought
the Germans were the only ones who confused (;-)) b and b flat, now I
understand the Danes do the same thing. I do think this odd practice is
originally a German one, which apparently, due to the strong influence
Germany has always had on European musical life, spread to Denmark,
maybe even further up north.
> Btw, don't the French use do, re, mi etc?
Yes. As do the Italians.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Herman Beun http://www.bigfoot.com/~hermanb/
Her...@bigfoot.com Brussel, Vlaanderen
-------------------------------------------------------------
European Parliament, ELDR (NL-D66), http://www.vanderlaan.net
-------------------------------------------------------------
*representative democracy is a contradiction in 4 year terms*
-------------------------------------------------------------
Herman Beun
89ogo6$eom$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> The scale consists of c,d,e,f,g,a,h.
Sure. And the first four natural numbers are een, twee, drie, vier. Not
one, two, three, four or whatever else people try to make us believe.
> You can put b up your ass.
Hmm, does that mean Finnish music is endecaphonic?
Herman
Andreas Thomsen
IMHO the whole silly argument is a clash of "ethnocentrisms" -
look up the definition of that in a recent posting by Jens Jensen -
... good old Anglo-Saxon pragmatism would just admit that there is a
difference in #usage# in different countries and therefore the question
cannot be decided #on principle#.
BTW, if I'm well informed, Bach used "h". What did Haendel write,
back in the 18th century, being educated in Germany, but living in
England - anybody knows ?
Another question: at the time when those letters were associated
with keys - were "Major" and "minor" the only modes ? Weren't there
a couple of other modes like "Dorian", "Phrygian", "Lydian",
"Myxolydian", "Aeolian" (in German "Kirchentonarten") so that almost
any key could serve as a starting point of a scale using only the
first letters of the alphabet, except perhaps for the key associated
with the letter h ?
See e.g. <http://www.guitar.ch/home_de/theory/modes_text.html>
Maybe thus the German usage of
"a","b"(aka b_flat),"c","d","e","f","g", and finally "h" and
the English use of
"a", "b"(aka "h"),"c","d","e","f","g"
can be made plausible ?
Just a guess...
regards,
Andreas
Jens Jensen
marku...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <38BF8416...@danmark.dk>,
> Denmark...the, land, of, ignorance, and, xenophobia! wrote:
> >
> >
> > Outsider wrote:
> > > =
> >
> > > Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
> > > If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
> > > take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
> > > and even then they may not. They still haven't figured out that
> > > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> > > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> > > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> > > see h7 and h#, but no b.
> >
> > Hi...Yes this is true...When I saw some sheet music my wife had, I
> said
> > show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
>
> * * *
> Where was the point for laughter? Of course the notes are (in this
> order): c,d,e,f,g,a,h. And the notation h7 is fully correct. Finland
> has spoken. Ask Sibelius.
>
What the hell is H7? What notes make up an H7 chord?
Chuck Shipley
|> > You mean fully incorrect!
|> > The scale matters not. I could use a b c# d e f# g#
|> > The scale consists of the first seven letters of the alphabet, which
|> > are (a b c d e f g). No (h).
|>
|> The scale consists of c,d,e,f,g,a,h. You can put b up your ass.
Wouldn't that require a b#?
____________________________________________________________________________
Dr. Charles Shipley | Dictionary: A malevolent literary device
ch...@Armstrong.edu | for cramping the growth of a language
Department of CS | and making it hard and inelastic. This
Armstrong Atlantic St U | dictionary, however, is a most useful
work.
--Ambrose Bierce [The Devil's Dictionary]
Janne Rinta-Manty
CR> On Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:18:40 +0100,
CR> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The scale consists of the first seven letters of the alphabet, which
>> are (a b c d e f g). No (h).
CR> What key do you imagine Bach used for his most famous Mass?
You mean mr. Bbacb?
--
Janne Rinta-Mänty
Erik Engelbrecht Larsen
> receive worse treatment because then people will know you are not a
> turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in some cases probably
> will tell you to "go home".
Eller det værste der kan ske, du bliver sat i arbejde !!!
erik
>
> Sådan er det bare.
Ole Nielsby
> >If you start speaking Danish you will
> > receive worse treatment because then people will know you
> > are not a turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in
> > some cases probably will tell you to "go home".
>
> Eller det værste der kan ske, du bliver sat i arbejde !!!
Fear not, for this will not happen unless thou taketh a danish
name and spendeth 10 years rehearsing those subtle wowel
distinctions that make danish employers able to reject a foreigner
after 3 syllables of phone conversation.
(Well, if you have a proper training as a computer engineer or
a doctor, they might find you useful as a bus driver.)
ON
Ilse Hirvonen
On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Ole Nielsby wrote:
>
> (Well, if you have a proper training as a computer engineer or
> a doctor, they might find you useful as a bus driver.)
Sounds just like Sweden.
/Ilse
--
"Know thyself? Absurd direction!
Bubbles bear no introspection."
-- Khushal Khan Khatak
http://www.mds.mdh.se/~frv95ihn/
Martin Petersen
ElectricAvenue
> .......Here is a quote from the current
> Norwegian national fire code about fire exit doors
> in buildings:
>
> "Fire exit doors must be made so that they ensures
> quick evacuation and prevents people from piling up
> on the inside of the door. The door must be easy to
> open without a key, and it must open in the direction
> the escape will happen. An exception can be made about
> the direction the door will open if there is no danger
> of a pileup during evacuation".
Thanks, Stein. I was hoping that someone would get
the official word on the doors. I suspect that doors on older
buildings are "grandfathered" into conformity with the fire code.
I remember that in Tromsø the doors to all the shops and
restaurants and government offices that I entered had doors
that opened inward. Even the hotel where I stayed had doors
that opened inward. It would be relatively easy to reverse the
door direction, but custom is a hard thing to change. Since
a building can last a few hundred years in Europe, it looks like
the doors won't be changed anytime soon unless a major
tragedy occurs involving door opening direction. Here in the
U.S., the whole matter would be solved overnight after one
successful well-publicized lawsuit against a building owner.
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Outsider
>
> Erik Engelbrecht Larsen <eri...@larsen.dk> wrote:
> > >If you start speaking Danish you will
> > > receive worse treatment because then people will know you
> > > are not a turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in
> > > some cases probably will tell you to "go home".
> >
> > Eller det værste der kan ske, du bliver sat i arbejde !!!
> [= Or the worst that can happen: they'll give you a job!]
>
> Fear not, for this will not happen unless thou taketh a danish
> name and spendeth 10 years rehearsing those subtle wowel
> distinctions that make danish employers able to reject a foreigner
> after 3 syllables of phone conversation.
>
> a doctor, they might find you useful as a bus driver.)
>
Exactly!
Outsider
>
> In article <38BFBBB0...@yahoo.com>,
> ipros...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > You mean fully incorrect!
> > The scale matters not. I could use a b c# d e f# g#
> > are (a b c d e f g). No (h).
>
> The scale consists of c,d,e,f,g,a,h. You can put b up your ass.
>
>
All that means is Finns don't know the alphabet any better than Danes.
The letter (b) comes after the letter (a).
You had better go back to kindergarden. H is a mistake, regardless of
common convention in your country. Can't you admit that h is not a
part of the first 7 letters in the alphabet? And this is certainly
no way (h) could come after (a). Where's (b)? Oh, that's right, up
your ass of course!
Jens Jensen
Janne Rinta-Manty wrote:
>
> Colin Rosenthal 2000-03-03T15:22:24Z:
> CR> On Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:18:40 +0100,
> CR> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The scale consists of the first seven letters of the alphabet, which
> >> are (a b c d e f g). No (h).
>
> CR> What key do you imagine Bach used for his most famous Mass?
>
> You mean mr. Bbacb?
>
That's him! Jobann Sebastian Bbacb!
Jens Jensen
Ole Nielsby wrote:
>
> Erik Engelbrecht Larsen <eri...@larsen.dk> wrote:
> > >If you start speaking Danish you will
> > > receive worse treatment because then people will know you
> > > are not a turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in
> > > some cases probably will tell you to "go home".
> >
> > Eller det værste der kan ske, du bliver sat i arbejde !!!
> [= Or the worst that can happen: they'll give you a job!]
>
> Fear not, for this will not happen unless thou taketh a danish
> name and spendeth 10 years rehearsing those subtle wowel
> distinctions that make danish employers able to reject a foreigner
> after 3 syllables of phone conversation.
Oh yeah? Wowel? I have a friend in Wome name biggesth dicketh....
There are no jobs awailable for foreigners in Denmark...
Aldo
Ilse Hirvonen <frv9...@mds.mdh.se> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21L.00030...@legolas.mdh.se...
>
> On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Ole Nielsby wrote:
> >
> > a doctor, they might find you useful as a bus driver.)
>
>
Or Norway. When I first arrived here a few years ago, I remember reading
and article in Aftenposten about a young Vietnamese woman who'd lived in
Norway since age 7, spoke perfect Norwegian, had completed Business School
with top grades...sent out scores of resumes, couldn't get an interview, let
alone a job. Out of desperation or inspiration, she finally decided to open
her own business. And is now making a decent living.
Aldo
--
HRH1962
>Anders Engwall <Anders....@uab.ericsson.se> schreef in berichtnieuws
>38BFA0EF...@uab.ericsson.se...
>
>> Matz Bjurström:
>>
>> > Aparently your american. 'mericans use b and Europeans use h.
>
>Nope.
>
>> I believe also the Brits (who may count as Europeans) use b.
>
>So do the Dutch (AFAIK this has always been the case). I always thought
>the Germans were the only ones who confused (;-)) b and b flat, now I
>understand the Danes do the same thing. I do think this odd practice is
>originally a German one, which apparently, due to the strong influence
>Germany has always had on European musical life, spread to Denmark,
>maybe even further up north.
Finns do it too. I don't think it's so terribly odd.
--
Heather Henderson
HRH...@aol.com / hea...@scc.net
http://scc.net/~heather
Outsider
Hetter hegin to correct the hig error. People that drink wood alcohol
may not think it odd either.
--
Regards,
Outsider
MS-DOS 6.22, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Netscape Navigator 4.08
Per Erik Ronne
> Otto-Ville Ronkainen wrote:
> > According to the legend, some king decreed that all outer doors
> > should open outwards after a considerable amount of people died
> > in a church fire because of insufficient door throughput.
>
> Replace "some king" with "the Emperor of Russia and Grand Duke of
> Finland" and "a church fire" with "at least two cases of panic in
> Finnish churches," and you have a true story of what happened in Finland
> in the 19th century. At least that's what I have been told.
This doesn't explain the rule's present in Sweden proper - or the rule's
lack of present in Scania conquered from Denmark in the mid 1600s.
--
Per Erik Rønne
Vejlebrovej 40, 2. mf./DK-2635 Ishøj, DENMARK, EUROPEAN UNION
Tlf. + fax: +45 43 73 00 15, mobil +45 28 23 09 92.
Homepage http://www.diku.dk/students/xerxes
Per Erik Ronne
> How come Danish doors open inward? I noticed this very
> soon after I got to Denmark for the first time.
The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
Per Erik Ronne
> Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
> According to the legend, some king decreed that all outer doors
> should open outwards after a considerable amount of people died
> in a church fire because of insufficient door throughput.
Before the Swedish conquest of Sweden, it seems :-).
Per Erik Ronne
> It sounds like the tradition is Danish, then, because I seem to
> remember that the doors opened inward in Norway, too. Since
> Scania is included, that makes it in the area of maximum Danish
> influence. Danes! Forget the immigrants, your doors are the
> biggest threat!
How is the situation in Schleswig-Holstein ?
On Gotland ?
In Bohuslän, Herjedalen, Hjemtland ?
Per Erik Ronne
> Since a building can last a few hundred years in Europe
Actually, a few millenia ...
Per Erik Ronne
> They still haven't figured out that
> > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> > see h7 and h#, but no b.
> Hi...Yes this is true...When I saw some sheet music my wife had, I said
> show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
It's a Medieval error done by the Germans. The b was thought to be a h
and thus Bach wrote his h-moll Messe, not his b minor mass.
I think all Continental Germanic countries have inherited this error.
Probably also the Central European countries under centuries of German
cultural influence.
Outsider
>
> Jens Jensen <jens....@danmark.dk> wrote:
>
> > They still haven't figured out that
> > > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
> > > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
> > > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
> > > see h7 and h#, but no b.
>
> > Hi...Yes this is true...When I saw some sheet music my wife had, I said
> > show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
>
> It's a Medieval error done by the Germans. The b was thought to be a h
> and thus Bach wrote his h-moll Messe, not his b minor mass.
>
> I think all Continental Germanic countries have inherited this error.
> Probably also the Central European countries under centuries of German
> cultural influence.
> --
Considering the musical notes are based on the first seven letters of
the alphabet it is really incomprehensible that anyone could make
such an error. And that fact that the error has never been corrected
in all this time is inconceivable. Everyone can see the error; it's
so obvious that a first grader can see it, yet no one corrects it.
It is even taught wrong in schools and is wrong in published sheet
music. HOW CAN THIS BE????
--
Regards,
Outsider
ElectricAvenue
"Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
When was the present Ishøj Station built? Maybe it's
new enough to have been built to new safety standards.
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Per Erik Ronne
> And that fact that the error has never been corrected in all this time is
> inconceivable. Everyone can see the error; it's so obvious that a first
> grader can see it, yet no one corrects it. It is even taught wrong in
> schools and is wrong in published sheet music. HOW CAN THIS BE????
Simply because it is no longer an error. It's a cultural tradition that
is more than one millenium old.
BTW, why don't the English pronounce the great Danish King Knud the
Great correctly? Since they find it difficult to prounounce /kn/ they
either choose to ignore the 'k' - like in "knave" or "knight", or to
pronounce the k and n as two separate syllables. thus King Knud the
Great becomes Canute in England.
An error in the English language only half a millenium old ...
Per Erik Ronne
> "Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> > The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
> When was the present Ishøj Station built? Maybe it's
> new enough to have been built to new safety standards.
20 years ago. As the first station in Ishøj - a Copenhagen suburb.
Outsider
>
> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > And that fact that the error has never been corrected in all this time is
> > inconceivable. Everyone can see the error; it's so obvious that a first
> > grader can see it, yet no one corrects it. It is even taught wrong in
> > schools and is wrong in published sheet music. HOW CAN THIS BE????
>
> Simply because it is no longer an error. It's a cultural tradition that
> is more than one millenium old.
>
> BTW, why don't the English pronounce the great Danish King Knud the
> Great correctly? Since they find it difficult to prounounce /kn/ they
> either choose to ignore the 'k' - like in "knave" or "knight", or to
> pronounce the k and n as two separate syllables. thus King Knud the
> Great becomes Canute in England.
>
> An error in the English language only half a millenium old ...
> --
You are getting silly now. Pronounciation and changing of spellings
from language to language is one thing, but the first seven letters
are still a, b, c, d, e, f, and g.
Outsider
>
> ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXXX> wrote:
>
> > "Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> > > The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
>
> > When was the present Ishøj Station built? Maybe it's
> > new enough to have been built to new safety standards.
>
> 20 years ago. As the first station in Ishøj - a Copenhagen suburb.
> --
It may not neccessarily have been done on purpose or with conscious
intent.
Lars Jørgen Helbo
>You are getting silly now. Pronounciation and changing of spellings
>from language to language is one thing, but the first seven letters
>are still a, b, c, d, e, f, and g.
and the last 7 letters are: w, x, y, z, æ, ø, å
when are you going to learn?
--
Lars Jørgen Helbo <he...@bigfoot.com>
http://helbo.cjb.net
http://haurumsall.cjb.net
http://www.salldata.dk
Per Erik Ronne
> > An error in the English language only half a millenium old ...
> > --
>
> You are getting silly now. Pronounciation and changing of spellings
> from language to language is one thing, but the first seven letters
> are still a, b, c, d, e, f, and g.
Yes, but it is _not_ at matter of the seven first letters. It's a matter
of the seven first notes of music ...
INGER E. JOHANSSON
"2000-05-03"
Inger E
Stein Rypern <ste...@online.nospam> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:3910AB...@online.nospam...
> Electric Avenue wrote:
> >
> > "Otto-Ville Ronkainen" wrote:
> > > Osmo Ronkanen writes:
> > > > ElectricAvenue wrote:
> > > > > How come Danish doors open inward?
> > >
> > > > As I understand this is the general norm.
> > >
> > > Yep. Sweden (including Finland, excluding Scania) is the exception.
> >
> > It sounds like the tradition is Danish, then, because
> > I seem to remember that the doors opened inward in Norway,
> > too.
>
> Depends on what kind of building it is and when
> it was built. Here is a quote from the current
> Norwegian national fire code about fire exit doors
> in buildings:
>
> "Fire exit doors must be made so that they ensures
> quick evacuation and prevents people from piling up
> on the inside of the door. The door must be easy to
> open without a key, and it must open in the direction
> the escape will happen. An exception can be made about
> the direction the door will open if there is no danger
> of a pileup during evacuation".
>
> So for a private dwelling where it is expected that
> there will be few people in the building at any time,
> the doors may go inwards. For a place where a lot of
> people can be expected to be on the inside the doors
> must open out.
>
> Norwegian laws and regulations can be found at
> http://www.lovdata.no, btw. But it sure helps to
> speak Norwegian to browse that site :-)
>
> Smile
> Stein
Hugh Watkins
>In article <38BF8416...@danmark.dk>,
> Denmark...the, land, of, ignorance, and, xenophobia! wrote:
>>
>>
>> Outsider wrote:
>> > =
>>
>> > Danish people are not adept at figuring things out for themselves.
>> > If no one tells them it is dangerous, they will never know. It will
>> > take a catastrophic fire with many deaths before they figure it out
>> > and even then they may not. They still haven't figured out that
>> > musical notes are a, b, c, d, e, f, g. In Denmark the musical
>> > notes are a, h, c, d, e, f, g (!). I'm not joking, this is true!
>> > Go into any music store and pick up some sheet music. You will
>> > see h7 and h#, but no b.
>>
>> Hi...Yes this is true...When I saw some sheet music my wife had, I
>said
>> show me an "H" chord...Ha ha!
>
>Where was the point for laughter? Of course the notes are (in this
>order): c,d,e,f,g,a,h. And the notation h7 is fully correct. Finland
>has spoken. Ask Sibelius.
>
> m_f
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
There was a seriuos theatre fire in Copenhagen when the doors opend the
wrong way many died
when the fire spread and burnt down the palace that used to be near Sanct
Anne Plads
Sorry I am in Birmingham and my refence books are in CPH!
the CDEFGAHC scale is German not Danish and originates in a type of plain
song (monks music) that always used a flattened seventh which THEY called B
just a historical accident originating in two schools of church music
if you go up into modal music you will find thah you can start a scale on
any note
the modern major/ minor system is a sub-set of much wider musical
posibilities.
thescale ABCDEFGA is very beautiful in both systems!
bit illogical to star on C (always)
music is sound - written notes were only invented because there were too
many songs to remeber - just an aide memoire
Hugh W
Pentatonic music has a five note scale and leaves out B and H
Old Lang Syn can be played on the black notes of the piano - and all thos
milions chinese cannot be wrong (also pentatonic music!)
Hugh Watkins
>What key do you imagine Bach used for his most famous Mass? Or are
>you implying that one of the greatest products of human civilization
>doesn't actually exist?
>
>--
>Colin Rosenthal
>Astrophysics Institute
>University of Oslo
when an englishman plays B it sounds the same as a German playing H
of course Lizst wrote a fugue on the theme BACH
I wonder why?
Bflat A C B natural for dummies
natural sigh looks a bit like H
flat sign looks like a lower case b
think about it
both systems work and are valid
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins
>Erik Engelbrecht Larsen <eri...@larsen.dk> wrote:
>> >If you start speaking Danish you will
>> > receive worse treatment because then people will know you
>> > are not a turist and will resent you being in Denmark, and in
>> > some cases probably will tell you to "go home".
>>
>> Eller det værste der kan ske, du bliver sat i arbejde !!!
>[= Or the worst that can happen: they'll give you a job!]
>
>Fear not, for this will not happen unless thou taketh a danish
>name and spendeth 10 years rehearsing those subtle wowel
>distinctions that make danish employers able to reject a foreigner
>after 3 syllables of phone conversation.
>
>a doctor, they might find you useful as a bus driver.)
rubbish taxi driver or start your own business
after going through the seminarium sausage machine a Dutch friend and an
English friend are both teaching Danish to Danish kids at school
good money too
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins
>H (the English B) Eb F# A
>> What the hell is H7? What notes make up an H7 chord?
musically Eflat is a tiny bit lower then Dsharp
as played by a great violinist of a top singer
so the above is wrong both in sound and in musical logic
all pianos are inherently out of tune
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins
>What the hell is H7? What notes make up an H7 chord?
Dominant seventh of the keys of E major and E minor
Jazz people the world over (also Danish) call it B7
(H D sharp F sharp A)
B D sharp F sharp A
sounds the same only NON-musicians think this is interesting
just a historical accident
OK
Hughh W
Stein Rypern
> Stein, are you in May when all the rest of us
> still are living in March???
Ooops - one of my computers was a few months
off. Thanks for pointing it out.
Smile
Stein
Herman Beun
20000304064320...@ng-co1.aol.com...
> Finns do it too. I don't think it's so terribly odd.
Because the Finns do it too? ;)
Anyway, it _is_ odd in the sense that there seem to be only historical
reasons for it but no logical ones. "a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h" is not a
very obvious subset from the alphabet. It contains one element too many
for a tone scale, and the tone scales you could construct with
it (C and a) have the elements in a strange order.
So whatever the reasons for using this German system, it is just as odd
as the Danish way of counting or the anglo-american units system.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Herman Beun http://www.bigfoot.com/~hermanb/
Her...@bigfoot.com Brussel, Vlaanderen
-------------------------------------------------------------
European Parliament, ELDR (NL-D66), http://www.vanderlaan.net
-------------------------------------------------------------
*representative democracy is a contradiction in 4 year terms*
-------------------------------------------------------------
ElectricAvenue
"Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
It just occurred to me - the doors at the Ishøj Station
are busted! I'm sure of this. ?-)
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Per Erik Ronne
> "Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> > The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
>
> It just occurred to me - the doors at the Ishøj Station
> are busted! I'm sure of this. ?-)
Actually, half the doors open inward, half the doors open outward. Thus
giving rise to two lines: an in-line and an out-line :-).
Outsider
>
> ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXXX> wrote:
>
> > "Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> > > The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
> >
> > It just occurred to me - the doors at the Ishøj Station
> > are busted! I'm sure of this. ?-)
>
> Actually, half the doors open inward, half the doors open outward. Thus
> giving rise to two lines: an in-line and an out-line :-).
> --
Are you absolutely certain? This would almost make me believe
that they can do something right -on purpose ;-). Of course,
I would have to go there in person and check it out, take
pictures and so on, just to be sure.
Per Erik Ronne
> Per Erik Ronne wrote:
> >
> > ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXXX> wrote:
> >
> > > "Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> > > > The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
> > >
> > > It just occurred to me - the doors at the Ishøj Station
> > > are busted! I'm sure of this. ?-)
> >
> > Actually, half the doors open inward, half the doors open outward. Thus
> > giving rise to two lines: an in-line and an out-line :-).
> Are you absolutely certain? This would almost make me believe
> that they can do something right -on purpose ;-). Of course,
> I would have to go there in person and check it out, take
> pictures and so on, just to be sure.
I have been using this station on a daily basis for years. I live in
Ishøj and have been attending a school in Central Copenhagen -
University of Copenhagen.
Ole Nielsby
>
> So whatever the reasons for using this German system, it is just as odd
> as the Danish way of counting or the anglo-american units system.
Talking of Danish counting (which expresses the number 999 as
9 * 100 + 9 + (5 - 1/2) * 20), it seems this system is connected
with sea bathing: the base-20 reminiscent indicates bare feets,
and - this is the interesting part: children learn the system at the
age of 4 or so by tbe following ritual, which is thought of as pure
play, not a learning ritual, large children do it too, and adults can
take part. It is called 10-20-30.
The children stand in a circle in the water. They jump ten times
while they cry: 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 - 50 - 60 - 70 - 80 - 90 - 100.
On 100, all dive.
Is this ritual peculiar to Denmark - or does it occur elsewhere?
Outsider
>
> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Per Erik Ronne wrote:
> > >
> > > ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXXX> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> > > > > The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
> > > >
> > > > It just occurred to me - the doors at the Ishøj Station
> > > > are busted! I'm sure of this. ?-)
> > >
> > > Actually, half the doors open inward, half the doors open outward. Thus
> > > giving rise to two lines: an in-line and an out-line :-).
>
> > Are you absolutely certain? This would almost make me believe
> > that they can do something right -on purpose ;-). Of course,
> > I would have to go there in person and check it out, take
> > pictures and so on, just to be sure.
>
> I have been using this station on a daily basis for years. I live in
> Ishøj and have been attending a school in Central Copenhagen -
> University of Copenhagen.
> --
I don't doubt you, that's not what I meant. I just meant that based
on my observations when something is done right it is often by accident.
I used to work in Ishøj and also used the train and I'm sure I noticed
this myself but have just forgotten.
Per Erik Ronne
> the Danish way of counting
Actually, we have two ways of counting:
10 ti ti
20 tyve toti
30 tredive treti
35 femogtredive tretifem
40 fyrre firti
50 halvtreds halvtrediesindstyve femti
60 tres tresindstyve seksti
65 femogtres femogtresindstyve sekstifem
70 halvfjers halvfjerdesindstyve syvti
80 firs firsindstyve otteti
90 halvfems halvfemsindstyve niti
And of course the English equivalents are:
10 ti ten
20 tyve twenti
30 tredive thirty
35 femogtredive five and thirty
40 fyrre fourty
50 halvtreds halvtrediesindstyve three minus half score
60 tres tresindstyve three score
65 femogtres femogtresindstyve five and three score
70 halvfjers halvfjerdesindstyve five and four minus half score
80 firs firsindstyve four score
90 halvfems halvfemsindstyve five minus half score
According a History of the Danish Language I've read, the form "femti"
was prevalent in Scania and the form "halvtrediesindstyve" ["three minus
half score"] in Jutland. On Zealand, both forms were used.
Unfortunately, after the loss of Scania 1658, the score-form was the one
to win in ordinary speech.
But for sure, I _have_ met terms like "five and three score" in English
texts ...
ElectricAvenue
> I have been using this station on a daily basis for years. I live in
> Ishøj and have been attending a school in Central Copenhagen -
> University of Copenhagen.
By coincidence, I have used this station - to get to and from
Ishøj Strand. The beach is about a 15 minute walk from the
station. But I don't remember the doors. As a matter of fact,
there may have been no doors (it was summer time). All I really
remember were the nude women at the beach. What a nice
beach!
BTW, KU is not a school. It is two dozen schools in search
of a campus.
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Per Erik Ronne
> BTW, KU is not a school. It is two dozen schools in search
> of a campus.
A matter of definition.
The University of Copenhagen is divided into six faculties [science,
health, humanities, law, social sciences and theology]. Each faculty is
further divided into a different number of institutes [departments] like
Institute of Datalogy [or Computer Science].
Some Americans prefer to call these institutes "schools".
HWM
> Actually, we have two ways of counting:
OK, then y'all go tell the French they count funny! It is quite similar.
And in Belgium they also use this more decimal approach to counting so
there would be the parallell to Denmark.
Cheers, | De ore leonis libera me, Domine, et a |
HWM | cornibus unicornium humilitatem meam. |
hen...@iobox.fi & http://www.kuru.da.ru
Anetta Meriranta Pirinen
wrote:
> Otto-Ville Ronkainen wrote:
> > According to the legend, some king decreed that all outer doors
> > should open outwards after a considerable amount of people died
> > in a church fire because of insufficient door throughput.
>
> Replace "some king" with "the Emperor of Russia and Grand Duke of
> Finland" and "a church fire" with "at least two cases of panic in
> Finnish churches," and you have a true story of what happened in Finland
> in the 19th century. At least that's what I have been told.
Yes, it really happened at least twice, if not three times. But it was
earlier, during the Swedish rule. (17th century? Savolax?) The term
used was "ryty-joulu".
I took months to get used to the inward-opening doors here. And
sometimes they send shivers down my back -- I remember, not long after
the big fire in a Gothenburg disco, being in a 22-Pistepirkko concert
in a packed pub with a wooden floor and inward-opening exits, and the
British smoking happily around us in spite of "No Smoking" signs.
Anetta to reply drop NOSPAM
"If I have a bag of rocks to carry as I go
I just want to hold my head up high." -- R.E.M.
Jens Jensen
Per Erik Ronne wrote:
>
> Matz Bjurström <ma...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> > How come Danish doors open inward? I noticed this very
> > soon after I got to Denmark for the first time.
>
> The doors on Ishøj Station open - outward :-).
Must be a mistake. :)
markus_fin
Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C10A70...@yahoo.com>...
>HRH1962 wrote:
>>
>> >From: "Herman Beun" her...@bigfoot.com
>>
>> >Anders Engwall <Anders....@uab.ericsson.se> schreef in
berichtnieuws
>> >38BFA0EF...@uab.ericsson.se...
>> >
>> >> Matz Bjurström:
>> >>
>> >> > Aparently your american. 'mericans use b and Europeans use h.
>> >
>> >Nope.
>> >
>> >> I believe also the Brits (who may count as Europeans) use b.
>> >
>> >So do the Dutch (AFAIK this has always been the case). I always
thought
>> >the Germans were the only ones who confused (;-)) b and b flat, now
I
>> >understand the Danes do the same thing. I do think this odd practice
is
>> >originally a German one, which apparently, due to the strong
influence
>> >Germany has always had on European musical life, spread to Denmark,
>> >maybe even further up north.
>>
>> Finns do it too. I don't think it's so terribly odd.
>>
>
>Hetter hegin to correct the hig error. People that drink wood alcohol
>may not think it odd either.
>
* * *
Your stupidity apparently has no limits. May I ask your nationality? You
keep on lecturing what are the first 7 alphabets, when the topic is
musical notations. If we change to discussing alphabets, the 7 last of
them are w,x,y,z,å,ä,ö. I can argue about this in "your way" till the
fucking end. Tell your nationality so I can start saying "ha-ha-ha" to
things that I think are from arse. You're one of them of course, but I
would certainly find other things too.
m_f
Hans Christian Hoff
"Stein Rypern" <ste...@online.nospam> wrote in message
news:3910AB...@online.nospam...
> Norwegian laws and regulations can be found at
http://www.lovdata.no, btw. But it sure helps to
> speak Norwegian to browse that site :-)
But it is not always enough !
Regards
Hans
Jakob Raunsř
Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38C137C1...@yahoo.com...
> Considering the musical notes are based on the first seven letters of
> the alphabet it is really incomprehensible that anyone could make
> such an error. And that fact that the error has never been corrected
> in all this time is inconceivable. Everyone can see the error; it's
> so obvious that a first grader can see it, yet no one corrects it.
> It is even taught wrong in schools and is wrong in published sheet
> music. HOW CAN THIS BE????
Im probably underqualified to enter this discussion, but assuming you are
american, I take this "How can this be?" question as a sign of americans not
having the concept of "tradition". You are just too young a civilisation to
grasp the fact that certain ways in the arts are not logical but traditions
arising from great persons like JSB. And thats how it has got to be. It
makes the world a more exciting place to live in.
Best regards,
Jakob Jensen
Hugh Watkins
>
>Yes, but it is _not_ at matter of the seven first letters. It's a matter
>of the seven first notes of music ...
>--
Hugh W
ElectricAvenue
"Per Erik Ronne" wrote:
> ElectricAvenue <Electri...@Privacy.nuXXXX> wrote:
>
> > BTW, KU is not a school. It is two dozen schools in search
> > of a campus.
>
> A matter of definition.
>
> The University of Copenhagen is divided into six faculties [science,
> health, humanities, law, social sciences and theology]. Each faculty is
> further divided into a different number of institutes [departments] like
> Institute of Datalogy [or Computer Science].
>
> Some Americans prefer to call these institutes "schools".
I was trying to be funny. The joke was similar to the one
people here use to describe Los Angeles: "Four dozen towns and
neighborhoods in search of a city". It was a reference to the fact
that the University is spread out all over Copenhagen and beyond.
While I was there, I walked from the central administration building
in north central Copenhagen across town and out to Amager, across
the river, to see one of the humanities departments. It took me
about an hour. Then I learned that the biology and computer science
departments were back in another part of downtown. I kept thinking
to myself "How do students get from class to class without always
being late?".
************
ElectricAvenue
************
ElectricAvenue
"Anetta Meriranta Pirinen"
<seashor...@pirinen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I took months to get used to the inward-opening doors here.
> And sometimes they send shivers down my back -- I remember,
> not long after the big fire in a Gothenburg disco, being in a
> 22-Pistepirkko concert in a packed pub with a wooden floor
> and inward-opening exits, and the British smoking happily
> around us in spite of "No Smoking" signs.
Oh, no! Do the British have inward-opening doors, too?
************
ElectricAvenue
************
Outsider
> >may not think it odd either.
> >
>
> * * *
> Your stupidity apparently has no limits. May I ask your nationality? You
> keep on lecturing what are the first 7 alphabets, when the topic is
> musical notations. If we change to discussing alphabets, the 7 last of
> them are w,x,y,z,å,ä,ö. I can argue about this in "your way" till the
> fucking end. Tell your nationality so I can start saying "ha-ha-ha" to
> things that I think are from arse. You're one of them of course, but I
> would certainly find other things too.
Yes, I must be one of "them".
Just remember that "b" and not "h" comes after "a".
I know it's hard for you, but can you please try and remember?
Per Erik Ronne
> It was a reference to the fact that the University is spread out all over
> Copenhagen and beyond. While I was there, I walked from the central
> administration building in north central Copenhagen across town and out to
> Amager, across the river,
The "river"? The harbour, acutally a part of the sea separating the
island of Zealand from the island of Amager. We haven't got a river in
Copenhagen.
> to see one of the humanities departments. It took me about an hour. Then
> I learned that the biology and computer science departments were back in
> another part of downtown. I kept thinking to myself "How do students get
> from class to class without always being late?".
It is correctly that the University of Copenhagen is spread all over the
inner city. With around 30,000 students there simply isn't enough room
in the old Medieval Copenhagen where it was founded 1479.
But it is rare for students to take subjects from other faculties than
their own. In general, you are either all-science or all-humanities.
And if you are not [I have computer science as my major and English
language, literature and society as my minor subject] the curriculum
encourages you to take the subjects successively rather than
concurrently.
But I have remarked that American college kids are taking subjects like
"English", "German" and "History", even when studying biology. In
general, that we have finished in upper grammar school ...
Per Erik Ronne
> If we change to discussing alphabets, the 7 last of them are
> w,x,y,z,å,ä,ö.
Nope. W, x, y, z, æ, ø, å :-).
Colin Rosenthal
Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Considering the musical notes are based on the first seven letters of
>the alphabet it is really incomprehensible that anyone could make
>such an error. And that fact that the error has never been corrected
>in all this time is inconceivable. Everyone can see the error; it's
>so obvious that a first grader can see it, yet no one corrects it.
>It is even taught wrong in schools and is wrong in published sheet
>music. HOW CAN THIS BE????
A# isn't a letter of the alphabet either. Surely the twelve tones of
the Western music scale should be replaced by the first twelve letters
of the alphabet? Then we could get rid of all this # and b nonsense.
Alternatively, if we do keep the present system isn't it equally a
mistake to call the key with no sharps and flats "C". Obviously it
should be A. Transposing instruments - there's another stupid idea.
And while we're at it, wouldn't it be a good idea if
people as stupid as Outsider were forbidden to propagate their genes?
--
Colin Rosenthal
Outsider
>
>
> It is correctly that the University of Copenhagen is spread all over the
> inner city. With around 30,000 students there simply isn't enough room
> in the old Medieval Copenhagen where it was founded 1479.
>
> But it is rare for students to take subjects from other faculties than
> their own. In general, you are either all-science or all-humanities.
>
> And if you are not [I have computer science as my major and English
> language, literature and society as my minor subject] the curriculum
> encourages you to take the subjects successively rather than
> concurrently.
>
> But I have remarked that American college kids are taking subjects like
> "English", "German" and "History", even when studying biology. In
> general, that we have finished in upper grammar school ...
> --
At most American colleges the curriculum is much more broad and varied
than the curriculum at danish colleges. Just because someone had a subject
in grammar school does not mean it cannot be studied at college!
Outsider
>
> On Sat, 04 Mar 2000 17:20:17 +0100,
> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Considering the musical notes are based on the first seven letters of
> >the alphabet it is really incomprehensible that anyone could make
> >such an error. And that fact that the error has never been corrected
> >in all this time is inconceivable. Everyone can see the error; it's
> >so obvious that a first grader can see it, yet no one corrects it.
> >It is even taught wrong in schools and is wrong in published sheet
> >music. HOW CAN THIS BE????
>
> A# isn't a letter of the alphabet either.
What a moron.
> Surely the twelve tones of
> the Western music scale should be replaced by the first twelve letters
> of the alphabet? Then we could get rid of all this # and b nonsense.
You mean # and h don't you?
> Alternatively, if we do keep the present system isn't it equally a
> mistake to call the key with no sharps and flats "C". Obviously it
> should be A.
Arbitrary.
> Transposing instruments - there's another stupid idea.
> And while we're at it, wouldn't it be a good idea if
> people as stupid as Outsider were forbidden to propagate their genes?
You can get my old pair of Levis if you like.
markus_fin
Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C34455...@yahoo.com>...
>markus_fin wrote:
>>
>> Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C10A70...@yahoo.com>...
>> >
>> >Hetter hegin to correct the hig error. People that drink wood
alcohol
>> >may not think it odd either.
>> >
>>
>> * * *
>> Your stupidity apparently has no limits. May I ask your nationality?
You
>> keep on lecturing what are the first 7 alphabets, when the topic is
of
>> them are w,x,y,z,å,ä,ö. I can argue about this in "your way" till the
>> fucking end. Tell your nationality so I can start saying "ha-ha-ha"
to
>> things that I think are from arse. You're one of them of course, but
I
>> would certainly find other things too.
>
>Yes, I must be one of "them".
>
>Just remember that "b" and not "h" comes after "a".
>I know it's hard for you, but can you please try and remember?
>
* * *
Tell me your nationality so I can find out if it's true what I suspect.
You represent arrogance, in-a-bottle-grown-upness, cultural imperialism
and arseholeness so fucking well. Alphabets are out of topic. Nothing to
do with musical notations.
m_f
Kari Yli-Kuha
> What the hell is H7? What notes make up an H7 chord?
Here's one variation:
\
|---|-o-|---
|---|---|---
|---|-o-|---
|-o-|---|---
|---|-o-|---
|---|---|---
/
/Kari
Outsider
>
> * * *
> Tell me your nationality so I can find out if it's true what I suspect.
> You represent arrogance, in-a-bottle-grown-upness, cultural imperialism
> and arseholeness so fucking well. Alphabets are out of topic. Nothing to
> do with musical notations.
>
You are just a typical Scandinavian. Always the need to label people
and judge them by their nationality. Everything must be cut out in
squares. You must have an opinion on everything, even things you
know nothing about. You are the Jante law personified.
markus_fin
Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C38B21...@yahoo.com>...
>markus_fin wrote:
>>
>> * * *
>> Tell me your nationality so I can find out if it's true what I
suspect.
>> You represent arrogance, in-a-bottle-grown-upness, cultural
imperialism
>> and arseholeness so fucking well. Alphabets are out of topic. Nothing
to
>> do with musical notations.
>>
>
>You are just a typical Scandinavian. Always the need to label people
>and judge them by their nationality. Everything must be cut out in
>squares. You must have an opinion on everything, even things you
>know nothing about. You are the Jante law personified.
>
* * *
It's you who started saying "ha-ha-ha" about things that don't fit in
your little narrow-minded world. I'm a Finn, would you say your
nationality. Spell it out, since you have surprisingly learned the
alphabets, as you have kept on repeating.
m_f
Per Erik Ronne
> > But I have remarked that American college kids are taking subjects like
> > "English", "German" and "History", even when studying biology. In
> > general, that we have finished in upper grammar school ...
> At most American colleges the curriculum is much more broad and varied
> than the curriculum at danish colleges. Just because someone had a subject
> in grammar school does not mean it cannot be studied at college!
But much suggests that we end up with a higher level in grammar school
than Americans do in their highschools.
I've even met Danish college boys who have been at an American college.
They say that the subject "advanced math" in college equivalates 11th
grade math of a Danish grammar school ...
Outsider
> >and judge them by their nationality. Everything must be cut out in
> >squares. You must have an opinion on everything, even things you
> >know nothing about. You are the Jante law personified.
> >
>
> * * *
> It's you who started saying "ha-ha-ha" about things that don't fit in
> your little narrow-minded world. I'm a Finn, would you say your
> nationality. Spell it out, since you have surprisingly learned the
> alphabets, as you have kept on repeating.
>
In my world "h" does not fit in between "a" and "c". You are
wrong. Admit it.
Now how could that information possibly be of any use to you,
even if it was yours and everyone else's business?
Outsider
>
> Outsider <nonvali...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > But I have remarked that American college kids are taking subjects like
> > > "English", "German" and "History", even when studying biology. In
> > > general, that we have finished in upper grammar school ...
>
> > At most American colleges the curriculum is much more broad and varied
> > than the curriculum at danish colleges. Just because someone had a subject
> > in grammar school does not mean it cannot be studied at college!
>
> But much suggests that we end up with a higher level in grammar school
> than Americans do in their highschools.
>
> I've even met Danish college boys who have been at an American college.
> They say that the subject "advanced math" in college equivalates 11th
> grade math of a Danish grammar school ...
> --
I would not take very seriously what those boys said. If I were you,
I wouldn't base my whole evaluation of American math classes in
college on their statements.
Is there even a subject "advanced math"? I thought it was all broken
down into subjects like "plane geometry", "trigonometry", calculus
and so on. What is 11th grade in a Danish grammar school?
In America grammar school stops at 8th grade and high school
is from 9th through 12th. Unless you have a junior high school,
in which case grammer school stops with 6th grade, junior high
goes from 7th through 9th and high school goes from 10th through
12th. I've also heard about a middle school, but I don't know
about that. In America, you can got to a college or university
directly after high school.
markus_fin
Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C3B6F4...@yahoo.com>...
* * *
The question was not about what is the second alphabet. Read my lips:
the issue was the notation of the musical scale. You are wrong. You
can't admit that in certain countries the notation in question is
different from the notation that is used in your country/culture. By
laughing at this fact you show very much about yourself.
By the way, what's the unit you measure liquids in ?
m_f
Outsider
>
> Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C3B6F4...@yahoo.com>...
> >
> >In my world "h" does not fit in between "a" and "c". You are
> >wrong. Admit it.
> >
> >Now how could that information possibly be of any use to you,
> >even if it was yours and everyone else's business?
>
> * * *
> The question was not about what is the second alphabet. Read my lips:
> the issue was the notation of the musical scale. You are wrong. You
> can't admit that in certain countries the notation in question is
> different from the notation that is used in your country/culture. By
> laughing at this fact you show very much about yourself.
It matters not to me which set of letters are used. It could be
(r s t u v w x) or ( b c d e f g h), or even (1 2 3 4 5 6 7),
but it cannot be (a h c d e f g).
In the sense that you are following the tradition of your culture
and you way you were taught, you are not wrong. However, someone
obviously made a big mistake which everyone around you has just
complacently gone along with all these years.
The musical notes are the first seven letters in the alphabet
and (h) is not one of them. This has got to be obvious even to
YOU.
> By the way, what's the unit you measure liquids in ?
>
I use whatever happens to be available.
Per Erik Ronne
> What is 11th grade in a Danish grammar school?
The second grade of the "gymnasium". And the "gymnasium" is an upper
secondary school with three grades for the 16-19-year-olds. Actually,
only for one third af the 16-19-year-olds, namely the 1/3 brightest kids
of a birth cohort.
You may begin in the first grade of the "gymnasium" after having
finished grade 9 [or 10] of the basic school.
> In America grammar school stops at 8th grade and high school
> is from 9th through 12th. Unless you have a junior high school,
> in which case grammer school stops with 6th grade, junior high
> goes from 7th through 9th and high school goes from 10th through
> 12th. I've also heard about a middle school, but I don't know
> about that.
I happen to know that an American middle school is grades 5-9. Junior
high ?
> In America, you can got to a college or university directly after high
> school.
My Concise Oxford Dictionary says:
"grammar school 1 Brit. esp. hist. a selective State secondary school
with a mainly academic curriculum. 2 Brit. hist. a school founded in or
before the 16th c. for teaching Latin, later becoming a secondary school
teaching academic subjects. 3 US a school intermediate between primary
and high school."
My big Danish-English [Vinterberg & Bodelsen] dictionary says:
"Gymnasium [(Danish) upper secondary school];
in England: circa grammar school; (more precisely) the fifth and sixth
forms at grammar school;
in the US: circa high school."
But the central issue here is that a Danish "studentereksamen" [German:
"Arbitur"] is at a much higher level than is an American high school
exam. It has even been recognized by the American education authorities.
A "studentereksamen" places a Danish kid at the sophomore or junior
level of an American college.
markus_fin
Per Erik Ronne kirjoitti viestissä
<1e72act.1xp6ez61ylxhkhN%se...@diku.dk>...
>markus_fin <marku...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If we change to discussing alphabets, the 7 last of them are
>> w,x,y,z,å,ä,ö.
>
* * *
Right. Or some other string depending on your culture/language : ).
Something that Outsiders seem unable to understand.
m_f
markus_fin
Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C3C6D1...@yahoo.com>...
>markus_fin wrote:
>>
>> Outsider kirjoitti viestissä <38C3B6F4...@yahoo.com>...
>> >
>> >In my world "h" does not fit in between "a" and "c". You are
>> >wrong. Admit it.
>> >
>> >Now how could that information possibly be of any use to you,
>> >even if it was yours and everyone else's business?
>>
>> * * *
>> The question was not about what is the second alphabet. Read my lips:
>> the issue was the notation of the musical scale. You are wrong. You
>> can't admit that in certain countries the notation in question is
>> different from the notation that is used in your country/culture. By
>> laughing at this fact you show very much about yourself.
>
>It matters not to me which set of letters are used. It could be
>(r s t u v w x) or ( b c d e f g h), or even (1 2 3 4 5 6 7),
>but it cannot be (a h c d e f g).
* * *
It can. It is. It is c,d,e,f,g,a,h.
>In the sense that you are following the tradition of your culture
>and you way you were taught, you are not wrong. However, someone
>obviously made a big mistake which everyone around you has just
>complacently gone along with all these years.
* * *
So many things are "mistakes", if you want to use that word, for
historical reasons, in this world.
>The musical notes are the first seven letters in the alphabet
>and (h) is not one of them. This has got to be obvious even to
>YOU.
* * *
The musical notes are c,d,e,f,g,a,h.
You have bravely learned the alphabets, the notes are as easy to learn.
Try !
Try also to comprehend the difference between two separate concepts.
>> By the way, what's the unit you measure liquids in ?
>>
>
>I use whatever happens to be available.
* * *
Doesn't want to answer.
Let's make it easier for you: what liquid unit system was mainly in use
in the country you're are from ?
m_f
Outsider
That is incorrect. Primary and grammar schools are the same in USA.
It's real hard to find a great dictionary around here. A lot of
that British stuff is real kooky. Try looking up the word "snuck".
If you find it, you have a good dictionary.
> My big Danish-English [Vinterberg & Bodelsen] dictionary says:
>
> "Gymnasium [(Danish) upper secondary school];
> in England: circa grammar school; (more precisely) the fifth and sixth
> forms at grammar school;
> in the US: circa high school."
> But the central issue here is that a Danish "studentereksamen" [German:
> "Arbitur"] is at a much higher level than is an American high school
> exam. It has even been recognized by the American education authorities.
> A "studentereksamen" places a Danish kid at the sophomore or junior
> level of an American college.
> --
Perhaps, but I don't buy the sophomore/junior in college bit - freshman
maybe. In any case I have seen no evidence of this "extra" education in
the Danes I've met who have "studentereksamen". I've anyway always hated
school and thought it was a large waste of time.