Why Europeans dont understand the Internet.
verit...@my-deja.com
Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
The Internet is a culture, not a technology.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mkhan
verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
than in the USA?
Jaywant Malik
mkhan <nomail...@usa.net> wrote in article
<38E30166...@usa.net>...
Veritas meant Europe as a whole. I think you just illustrated his point.
Andreas Thomsen
> Internet: Open, Friendly, Interactive, Fair, Sociable.
>
> Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
>
> The Internet is a culture, not a technology.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Your statement is full of prejudice and bigotry - not exactly open
minded.
Maybe you're a European according to your description ?
regards,
Andreas
mkhan
Andreas Thomsen wrote:
>
> verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
[Nonsense snipped]
> Your statement is full of prejudice and bigotry - not exactly open
> minded.
> Maybe you're a European according to your description ?
He's using a Latin name. Perhaps a Latin American?
mkhan
Jaywant Malik wrote:
> Veritas meant Europe as a whole. I think you just illustrated his point.
I think I disproved him.
Jaywant Malik
point.
>
> I think I disproved him.
How so?
Thomas Petersen
> verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
>
> I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
> than in the USA?
More cows and pigs than human beings in Denmark who have their PC
Kørekort. Less population.....duh! More people in the USA are internet
users than in Scandinavia...the internet costs too much in
Scandinavia....per minute charges......what a ripoff! In the states,
you get charged per call!!!
:-)
mkhan
He said that Europe and the Internet are at odds. I replied that in
actual fact the countries with the highest connection density are in
Europe.
Other European countries are quickly catching up. In Germany, for
exampple, the number of internet users roughly doubled last year.
Why you see this as a reason for a personal attack on me, as you did in
an earlier post, remains your secret.
Thomas Petersen
Yeah there are many Latins in Latin America.... ha ha ha!
Andreas Thomsen
> mkhan <nomail...@usa.net> wrote in article
> <38E30166...@usa.net>...
> >
> >
> > verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
> >
> > I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
> > than in the USA?
>
> Veritas meant Europe as a whole. I think you just illustrated his point.
What _is_ "Europe as a whole" ?
Russia ? Ireland ? Turkey ? ENgland ? Germany ? Spain ? Rumunia ? .... Do
you think there's really a common denominator when comparing this diversity
to the USA ? I think the interior diversity of Europe is greater than the
average differences between Western Europe and the US
regards,
Andreas
Niklas Tötterman
Petersen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote:
> mkhan wrote:
>
> > verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
> >
> > I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
> > than in the USA?
>
> More cows and pigs than human beings in Denmark who have their PC
> Kørekort. Less population.....duh! More people in the USA are internet
> users than in Scandinavia...the internet costs too much in
> Scandinavia....per minute charges......what a ripoff! In the states,
> you get charged per call!!!
Hah. I have two internet accounts. One that costs less than 10$ month,
flat fee - and the other one is free, except for the one time 50$. The
account will be valid until 2003. OTOH, at that point I guess I've
already moved over to ADSL.
dbf
> > you get charged per call!!!
I never got charged for any calls, local calls are free. A flat monthly
flee and I could stay online all day. Email and the WWW were everyday
parts of life for me 5 years ago. When I came to Europe, I felt like I had
gone back in time and felt "disconnected" from the world. I'm happy to now
have cable internet, but back home, people have DSL lines at their homes!
Europe is behind because (in my opinion) because
a) the cost of local calls makes it prohibitely to incorporate it into
life as fully as you can in the US, plus computer gear is cheaper and
"disposable income" higher in the US (that's what we get for lack of health
care and social services)
b) Europeans (in general) seem more cautious and apprehensive of new
technologies..they wait, whereas Americans jump in (but then, costs are
cheaper in the US)
c) Americans are more materialistic (we like our toys)....look at DVD, the
internet, and the average American kitchen.
d) (FLAME WAR bait, sorry) Europeans, despite the EU unification, are very
nationalistic and hesitant to join a "global community"...the large amount
of American content/ideas probably alienates them a bit as well. The
internet is largely considered an American entity where English is the
accepted language.
Just my opinions, please don't take offense.....I'd love to read other ideas
--
Swirly Sound, sound mixing and design, Amsterdam The Netherlands
http://people.a2000.nl/fries/swirly
JMcG
"B. Thober" <az...@lafn.org> wrote in message
news:sva6essgc5top0obp...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:59:47 +0200, mkhan <nomail...@usa.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Andreas Thomsen wrote:
> >>
> >> verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> >[Nonsense snipped]
> >
> >
> >> Your statement is full of prejudice and bigotry - not exactly open
> >> minded.
> >> Maybe you're a European according to your description ?
> >
> >He's using a Latin name. Perhaps a Latin American?
>
> Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
>
>
His spelling of 'centralised' identifies him as probably a Brit or Canadian
(an American would spell it 'centralized'). However, I think his
observations are well-taken and not prejudicial. He is stating a real
difference between American and European approaches to many things.
Regards
John
mkhan
JMcG wrote:
> His spelling of 'centralised' identifies him as probably a Brit or Canadian
> (an American would spell it 'centralized'). However, I think his
> observations are well-taken and not prejudicial. He is stating a real
> difference between American and European approaches to many things.
The point is, there is no such thing as "A European approach" that you
could compare to the US approach (I assume that that is what you mean
with "American approach"). What does, to take but two examples, Greece
have to do with, say, Sweden, or Switzerland wirh Portugal? They happen
to be geographically located on the same continent, but to deduce any
similarity in thinking from that is a fallacy.
And fact is, Scandinavian countries do have the highest percentile of
the population surfing the web, and they definitely are in Europe, so to
state that Europe and the web are mutually incompatible is a statement
that simply has no basis in actual fact.
mkhan
dbf wrote:
> Europeans (in general) seem more cautious and apprehensive of new
> technologies..they wait, whereas Americans jump in (but then, costs are
> cheaper in the US)
New technologies..... Newsweek and Time, and the International Herald
Tribune, in different articles, state that the lead Europe has in mobile
telephony over the rest of the world is in the order of 2 years. Which
in high tech, is huge. The GSM wireless telephone standard is
omnipresent all over the EU and in many other countries, while the US
still has a variety of (sometimes mutually incompatible) standards,
around 75% of the cellphone services still being analog.
For digital television, the European DVB standard is far more flexible
and advanced than its US counterpart ATSC. In countries where direct
tests were performed to select one either DVB-T (terrestrial) and ATSC
(lately, Australia and India), DVB-T won out each time.
These two are examples of key technologies that will gain further
importance in the future.
For analog television, the US NTSC standard is far from the best
possible solutions. TV engineers' running joke: NTSC=Never The Same
Colors. Low resolution, color encoded in the phase and therefore highly
susceptible to external effects ... it just doesn't cut much ice.
Videotext and multichannel sound on NTSC TV? Nah. In fact, American
viewers would probably have to have lived with NTSC for another 50 years
if the government hadn't mandated the transition to ATSC and also
imposed a clear (and pretty tight) schedule.
And US radios? All those things that we take for granted in many
European countries (Radio Data System, Traffic Programs, Extended Online
Network)? Never seen those in the USA, at least on the car radios in
renbtal cars.
Certainly the US enjoys a considerable lead in many technologies. But to
assume that the technologies they have are always the best and the most
advanced does not always stand up to closer scrutiny.
> Americans are more materialistic (we like our toys)....look at DVD, the
> internet, and the average American kitchen.
DVD isn't a specifically US thing. The internet, having been spawned
from US defence-related reseach definitely used to be overwhelmingly
dominated by US companies and institutions. The web, although the basic
technology comes from Europe definitely was owes its public success to
US initiative.
As for the kitchen, I'd extend that statement to the average US
household. They tend to have (and want to have) more manual-labor-saving
devices for everything than Europeans.
That doesn't mean that what they have in the USA in the way of gadgets
and useful implements is always technologically very advanced. The
washing machines that I saw in the USA certainly were not.
Oh yes, but I do admit that the fridges can make ice cubes. :-)
> Europeans, despite the EU unification, are very
> nationalistic
*laugh* as opposed to US citizens, you mean? :-)))) I don't buy that,
sorry.
JMcG
"mkhan" <nomail...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:38E3601C...@usa.net...
>
>
>
>
> Certainly the US enjoys a considerable lead in many technologies. But to
> assume that the technologies they have are always the best and the most
> advanced does not always stand up to closer scrutiny.
>
>
question of who can produce a superior technology, but the manner in which a
technology is developed and applied. and the motivation for its application.
This is what (as I understand it) he claims distinguishes Americans and
Europeans, of any country. The Ford Model T comes to mind as a prime
example - it would never have been developed in any country in Europe at
that time.
Regards
John
mkhan
JMcG wrote:
> Aren't you straying from the point of the original post? It wasn't a
> question of who can produce a superior technology, but the manner in which a
> technology is developed and applied. and the motivation for its application.
The original opinion was that European attitudes prevent them from
embracing the internet, to which all kinds of positive characteristics
are ascribed (whether these characterstics are ascribed rightly or
wrongly would be the topic of a separate discussion). To that I replied
that not only is internet usage extremely high in many European
countries but growing at a breakneck pace.
To say that Europeans do not understand the internet, as the somewhat
trollish subject line suggests, is a statement that does not stand up to
reality. It also wasn't substantiated by anyone so far.
Furthermore I assumed that the self-same characteristics, if they are
ascribed to the internet and the web, should then also apply to other
new communication technologies, in which Europe in fact has taken a
lead. If by and large European attitudes were negative to these
technologies (logically, they should be, if the original poster's
statement were correct), then how could Europe have taken a lead there?
So, no, I don't think that I strayed off-topic.
> This is what (as I understand it) he claims distinguishes Americans and
> Europeans, of any country. The Ford Model T comes to mind as a prime
> example - it would never have been developed in any country in Europe at
> that time.
I can't argue with that because I don't have any data handy. I would
assume, without being able to back that up, that socio-economic factors
rather than national attitudes are the major factor determining why mass
production of automobiles first happened in the USA and not in any
European country.
Juergen Hubert
>
Since we ARE sterotyping here, let me add that you act like a
sterotypical American.
That being said, Europe is a whole continent with hundreds of millions
of people, and dozens of nations - and brushing over the whole thing as
"Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic" is just plain
dumb.
"Closed": In pretty much the entire European Union, there's only a sign
on the side of the highway to tell you that you've passed into another
country. Not much difference between that and the state borders in the
USA.
And if you pass into an EU country, your intelligence isn't insulted by
demands to sign a paper in which you have to state, among other things,
whether or not you intend to assassinate the president while you're
there...
"Hostile": Ever compared the size of former Yugoslavia to the rest of
Europe on a map?
"Disconnected": Tell that to European cell phone users...
"Dominating": Well, Europe ISN't the home of Microsoft. On the other
hand, have you ever heard of Linus Torvald? He is Finnish - and Finland
IS in Europe, in case you couldn't find it on a map and were
wondering...
"Antagonistic": Well, that feeling is mutual with the USA at trade
summits...
And whether the internet is a technology or a culture - well, it's both.
Duh. Was that so hard?
- Juergen Hubert
Juergen Hubert
>
> >
> His spelling of 'centralised' identifies him as probably a Brit or Canadian
> (an American would spell it 'centralized'). However, I think his
> observations are well-taken and not prejudicial. He is stating a real
> difference between American and European approaches to many things.
>
> Regards
> John
What "differences"? All he did was posting some stereotypes about
Europe. Even Newsweek does better than that...
- Juergen Hubert
mkhan
Juergen Hubert wrote:
> That being said, Europe is a whole continent with hundreds of millions
> of people, and dozens of nations - and brushing over the whole thing as
> "Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic" is just plain
> dumb.
My point exactly.
> "Antagonistic": Well, that feeling is mutual with the USA at trade
> summits...
Ah those. Well, I think they tend to serve the interest of a select few
European and US companies that have the clout to lobby pols to negotiate
settlements that suit them. What average European or US citizens think
or feel is of precious little importance at these trade summits.
Thomas Petersen
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:34:35 +0200, Thomas Petersen <"Thomas
> Petersen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote:
>
> > mkhan wrote:
> >
> > > verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
> > >
> > > I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
> > > than in the USA?
> >
> > More cows and pigs than human beings in Denmark who have their PC
> > Kørekort. Less population.....duh! More people in the USA are internet
> > users than in Scandinavia...the internet costs too much in
> > Scandinavia....per minute charges......what a ripoff! In the states,
> > you get charged per call!!!
>
> Hah. I have two internet accounts. One that costs less than 10$ month,
> flat fee - and the other one is free, except for the one time 50$. The
> account will be valid until 2003. OTOH, at that point I guess I've
> already moved over to ADSL.
A good deal!!
Juergen Hubert
>
> "mkhan" <nomail...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:38E3601C...@usa.net...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Certainly the US enjoys a considerable lead in many technologies. But to
> > assume that the technologies they have are always the best and the most
> > advanced does not always stand up to closer scrutiny.
> >
> >
> question of who can produce a superior technology, but the manner in which a
> technology is developed and applied. and the motivation for its application.
> Europeans, of any country.
Well, if he meant that, why didn't he say so? At least it wouldn't have
come over quite as insulting...
- Juergen Hubert
dbf
US has such a problem with keeping up in these areas is the sheer size of
the country. Europe's radio & TV markets are pretty small compared the
thousands of stations in the US, and upgrading a standard of broadcast
costs a fortune and is therefore more difficult to do. yes, NTSC
sux...hope HDTV (1080 lines) takes off in 2006.
It's funny how the cultures criticize each other. Whenever US friends
visit, they are amazed/critical at how many mobile phones are used here. I
was surprised when recently back in the US, that people still use pagers
there!
> DVD isn't a specifically US thing.
I know, but it took off in its market on schedule, unlike Europe and the
rest of the world, which is lagging behind projected guidelines...but
again, I think it's because it's just too damn expensive in Europe...
The internet, having been spawned
> from US defence-related reseach definitely used to be overwhelmingly
> dominated by US companies and institutions. The web, although the basic
> technology comes from Europe definitely was owes its public success to
> US initiative.
> As for the kitchen, I'd extend that statement to the average US
> household. They tend to have (and want to have) more manual-labor-saving
> devices for everything than Europeans.
Yes, Americans want a seperate gadget for every possible variation of a
chore :-)
> That doesn't mean that what they have in the USA in the way of gadgets
> and useful implements is always technologically very advanced. The
> washing machines that I saw in the USA certainly were not.
The gadgets aren't as advanced, just more affordable and basically, ties in
with the American ideal of materialism equalling success.
> Oh yes, but I do admit that the fridges can make ice cubes. :-)
>
> > Europeans, despite the EU unification, are very
> > nationalistic
>
> *laugh* as opposed to US citizens, you mean? :-)))) I don't buy that,
> sorry.
Well, yes Americans are nationalistic if not meglomaniacal too...but Europe
is unifying into ONE Europe (stupid sentence I know), which I see as
problematic given the nationalistic feelings of each country.
Lou Minatti™
>
> verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
>
> I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
> than in the USA?
There was an article on this in Red Herring. So let's cut the petty
bullshit and get down to the facts.
The U.S. leads Europe in Internet access for its citizens. There are
exceptions (i.e., Scandanavian countries), but as a whole, the U.S. is
far ahead. With that said, Europe leads the U.S. in wireless
communications. Wireless Web access via PDA or cell phone may very well
be the far larger market in the near future. Unless U.S. wireless phone
companies cease the absurd practice of charging for inbound phone calls,
European technology could regain the lead. OTOH, European phone
companies still have the stupid practice of charging their landline
users a per-minute fee. And both U.S. and European initiatives could be
slammed by new services coming out of Japan.
Regardless, this is all gonna shake out FAST. I can't wait.
--
ALL NEW HATEMAIL! LOTSA FUN STUFF!
http://www.watchingyou.com/hatemail.html
pran...@noeispammia.cc.hut.fi
: You have a point with the mobile phones/TV/radio....I think the reason the
: US has such a problem with keeping up in these areas is the sheer size of
: the country. Europe's radio & TV markets are pretty small compared the
: thousands of stations in the US, and upgrading a standard of broadcast
: costs a fortune and is therefore more difficult to do. yes, NTSC
: sux...hope HDTV (1080 lines) takes off in 2006.
The development of mobile communication (and any other forms of
telecommunications) is mainly an issue of standardization. The USA could not
(or would not) agree on a single standard to be used nationwide, and that
is why the markets are so fragmented. Maybe the reason was that they wanted
to force their own standard rather than adapt some European GSM-stuff... The
other reason is that the companies couldn't agree on roaming-agreements,
which is why the mobile phones are (were) so useless in USA.
The funny thing is that GSM is not even the best possible standard, but with
standards that is not even important... ;)
---
Pekka
TRITON
>The Ford Model T comes to mind as a prime
>example - it would never have been developed in any country in Europe at
The Ford Pinto comes to mind as a prime example - it too would never have
been developed in any country ( not even France ! and they`re not even
considered "gifted" when it comes to building cars ) in Europe.
--
U3509
"...Es ist besser, als ein Wolf zu sterben, denn als Hund zu leben..."
Mark Brooks
> technology comes from Europe definitely was owes its public success to
> US initiative.
>
Please explain. The "web", like e-mail, is only an internet application.
You cannot have a world wide web without something to ride on. The internet,
the basic underlying technology, is American.
Ethernet came from Xerox. Routers and TCP/IP came out of ARPA project.
Browser from Andreesen.
Berners Lee created some of the pieces like HTML, but beyond that Internet
was overwhelmingly an American creation. Most of it was created by mere
graduate students at Stanford and other US universities. Of course, that is
not to say that some of the people working on the various projects were not
from Europe.
President George Bush signed the legislation that moved the technology into
the public sector.
Why would George Bush have to sign to release European technology?
P.S. Originally companies like ATT and IBM wanted nothing to do with the
development...they saw no future in it.
gmoreau
écrivait:
>Other European countries are quickly catching up. In Germany, for
>exampple, the number of internet users roughly doubled last year.
>
Anyway who cares ? If Internet is a culture, I'd rather keep mine.
It is not because I buy some railroad tickets or check the movies thru
a computer that the cultures are going to change. I used to do that
with a minitel, long before the web came...
Gaëtan
-------
"Enfin, nous réaffirmons vouloir promouvoir un Usenet Fr coopératif et
solidaire. A contrario, nous ferons tout notre possible pour éviter un
Usenet Fr paternaliste et autoritaire." le Komité FUFA
gmoreau
écrivait:
>
>Andreas Thomsen <tho...@uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
>news:38E33CC4...@uni-bonn.de...
>> Jaywant Malik wrote:
>
>>
>> What _is_ "Europe as a whole" ?
>> Russia ? Ireland ? Turkey ? ENgland ? Germany ? Spain ? Rumunia ? ....
>
>could you please tell me what is this rumunia? LOL
>
A mispell ?
gmoreau
>Well, yes Americans are nationalistic if not meglomaniacal too...but Europe
>is unifying into ONE Europe (stupid sentence I know), which I see as
>problematic given the nationalistic feelings of each country.
But I am not sure that the use of a technology is as important as the
worshipers of the .Com stuff think it is.
I have no doubt that technology influences a culture, but at what
scale ? Difficult to answer.
A funny thing about the net is that for Americans it was brand new to
order stuff through computer. Like I have said, I used to do that
through what we called in France a minitel, which is now an outdated
technology (though it has a chipcard reader for Pin code creditcards
for many years).
So technologies change, and maybe the most laughing thing in ten years
will be the Americans surfing the net on their computer and not on
their cellular phones.
I remember that in 94, in Rome, half of the population had already a
mobilephone, and yet, I don't think Italians produce many
mobilephones, but they are certainely the ones who use them the most.
I still wondering how come everywhere I go outside France, there are
no chipcreditcards, still use the magnetic and have to SIGN credit
card receist (this sounds like neanderthal to me, I have a Visa for
almost 10 years, never had one without a chip). The funniest thing for
me is the ads on cable for some recording toy to enter the sums you
pay with you creditcard, so you can check for sure, and ad the sums,
etc. LOL.
To finish, a special souvenir. In Dallas, TX, in the summer '94, the
cashier at Hooters saw the chip on my credit card and was quite
puzzled, so we engage conversation, after knowing that I am French,
she asked me seriously if we had microwave ovens in France... I
answered that true cuisine is done on wood fire. :-0
Juergen Hubert
>
> You have a point with the mobile phones/TV/radio....I think the reason the
> US has such a problem with keeping up in these areas is the sheer size of
> the country. Europe's radio & TV markets are pretty small compared the
> thousands of stations in the US, and upgrading a standard of broadcast
> costs a fortune and is therefore more difficult to do. yes, NTSC
> sux...hope HDTV (1080 lines) takes off in 2006.
>
While it is true that certain attitudes are more common in Europe than
the USA, or vice versa, simply making blanket statements like the fisrt
poster is pretty daft. Unfortunately, he's not the only one - on either
side of the Big Pond - making all this into something like a "war of
cultures"...
> Whenever US friends
> visit, they are amazed/critical at how many mobile phones are used here. I
> was surprised when recently back in the US, that people still use pagers
> there!
What the first poster didn't seem to grasp is that which implementations
of technologies have staying power is often a matter of accidents and
blind chances. The Internet and World Wide Web are one example. The NTSC
vs PAL standards are another. And there are lots more examples...
> > DVD isn't a specifically US thing.
>
> I know, but it took off in its market on schedule, unlike Europe and the
> rest of the world, which is lagging behind projected guidelines...but
> again, I think it's because it's just too damn expensive in Europe...
I don't know about DVD all that much, but many of my friends are
believing that DVD has no staying power - even the one with the huge DVD
collection is starting to back off from it...
> The internet, having been spawned
> > from US defence-related reseach definitely used to be overwhelmingly
> > dominated by US companies and institutions. The web, although the basic
> > technology comes from Europe definitely was owes its public success to
> > US initiative.
>
> > As for the kitchen, I'd extend that statement to the average US
> > household. They tend to have (and want to have) more manual-labor-saving
> > devices for everything than Europeans.
>
> Yes, Americans want a seperate gadget for every possible variation of a
> chore :-)
Not to mention much bigger manuals for them ;-)
> > That doesn't mean that what they have in the USA in the way of gadgets
> > and useful implements is always technologically very advanced. The
> > washing machines that I saw in the USA certainly were not.
>
> The gadgets aren't as advanced, just more affordable and basically, ties in
> with the American ideal of materialism equalling success.
And "materialism equalling success" is, of course a large difference
between the USA and Europe. Not that money is unimportant in Europe,
mind you - far from it. But there are other things that are considered
to be as, or even more important.
Take Germany, for example. Here social status isn't dependent as much on
one's income, but on the kind of job you hold - the more impressive the
job title, the better. Academic titles count, too - a "Doktor" or
"Professor" gets a lot of respect. People are often adressed by their
titles, without using their actual names "Herr Professor" ("Mr
Professor"), "Frau Doktor" ("Mrs Doctor"), "Herr Direktor" ("Mr CEO"),
and so on...
Talking about one's income is considered bad taste in Germany. Of
course, people being people no matter the nationality, rich Germans find
other ways of using money to improve their percieved social status (for
social status is all about perception anyway). Buying titles is also
popular - especially the area around Stuttgart is plastered with
"Konsuls" (a kind of ambassador without any real privileges and duties -
in those cases)...
> > Oh yes, but I do admit that the fridges can make ice cubes. :-)
> >
> > > Europeans, despite the EU unification, are very
> > > nationalistic
> >
> > *laugh* as opposed to US citizens, you mean? :-)))) I don't buy that,
> > sorry.
>
> Well, yes Americans are nationalistic if not meglomaniacal too...but Europe
> is unifying into ONE Europe (stupid sentence I know), which I see as
> problematic given the nationalistic feelings of each country.
Well, at least among EU member states there aren't too many antagonistic
feelings against each other (the current business with Austria being the
major exception). Most members know that they profit far too much from
the EU to let nationalism get into the way of business...
- Juergen Hubert
Juergen Hubert
>
> In soc.culture.nordic dbf <rat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> : You have a point with the mobile phones/TV/radio....I think the reason the
> : US has such a problem with keeping up in these areas is the sheer size of
> : the country. Europe's radio & TV markets are pretty small compared the
> : thousands of stations in the US, and upgrading a standard of broadcast
> : costs a fortune and is therefore more difficult to do. yes, NTSC
> : sux...hope HDTV (1080 lines) takes off in 2006.
>
> telecommunications) is mainly an issue of standardization. The USA could not
> (or would not) agree on a single standard to be used nationwide, and that
> is why the markets are so fragmented. Maybe the reason was that they wanted
> to force their own standard rather than adapt some European GSM-stuff... The
> other reason is that the companies couldn't agree on roaming-agreements,
> which is why the mobile phones are (were) so useless in USA.
>
> The funny thing is that GSM is not even the best possible standard, but with
> standards that is not even important... ;)
Happens all the time. For example, the standard QWERTY keyboard (the one
you are likely using right now) was designed to slow the typists of
former times down - beacuse the first typewriters couldn't handle a
faster pace. Far more efficient keyboards could be designed today, but
what are the odds of them replacing the current standard?
- Juergen Hubert
mkhan
Juergen Hubert wrote:
> Happens all the time. For example, the standard QWERTY keyboard (the one
> you are likely using right now) was designed to slow the typists of
> former times down - beacuse the first typewriters couldn't handle a
> faster pace. Far more efficient keyboards could be designed today, but
> what are the odds of them replacing the current standard?
True. Other examples: VHS which pushed Betamax out of the market for VCR
tape standards. The Betamax derivative Betacam is still in widespread
use for professional applications.
And of course.... MS-DOS and its subsequent derivatives, including
Windoze. :-(
Andreas Thomsen
> Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:35:50 -0800, "nana" <gr...@nh.ultranet.com>
> écrivait:
>
> >
> >Andreas Thomsen <tho...@uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
> >news:38E33CC4...@uni-bonn.de...
> >> Jaywant Malik wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> What _is_ "Europe as a whole" ?
> >> Russia ? Ireland ? Turkey ? ENgland ? Germany ? Spain ? Rumunia ? ....
> >
> >could you please tell me what is this rumunia? LOL
> >
> A mispell ?
>
Rather a mistake - I think I confounded it with the Polish name of the
country of Romania.
Ricardo
<snju...@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> an engem Artikel vum Fri, 31 Mar
2000 09:24:10 +0200 an der Newsgroup soc.culture.nordic geschriwen:
>Well, at least among EU member states there aren't too many antagonistic
>feelings against each other (the current business with Austria being the
>major exception). Most members know that they profit far too much from
>the EU to let nationalism get into the way of business...
Of course: like Luxembourg, they're clever enough to make sure the
old nationalism does *not* "get in the way of business". Even to
this day, Lux refuses to recognize EU citizens' voting rights - some
"democracy" huh? And worse, it is getting away with it too. I think
even Germany is far more tolerant in this respect.
--
ricardo icq# 51047940 gsm# +352091511692
"Emol eng Keier sin ech op Skandinavien gefuer.
Do war et kal."
mkhan
Ricardo wrote:
> I think
> even Germany is far more tolerant in this respect.
"Even" Germany? More flame bait?
And yest, Germany does grant EU citizens voting rights, obviously for
the European elections, and for the communal elections, but not for
state and federal elections.
Dave Francis
online for free. There are a lot of free providers now.
Dave
--
DavidJ...@USA.net (Email Address)
http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/candyman (Web Page)
503/905-6832 (Fax Number)
"Thomas Petersen" <"Thomas Petersen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote in
message news:38E31FAB...@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com...
> mkhan wrote:
>
> > verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
> >
> > I see. So why is the percentage of internet users in Scandinavia higher
> > than in the USA?
>
> More cows and pigs than human beings in Denmark who have their PC
> Kørekort. Less population.....duh! More people in the USA are internet
> users than in Scandinavia...the internet costs too much in
> Scandinavia....per minute charges......what a ripoff! In the states,
> you get charged per call!!!
>
> :-)
Dave Francis
Dave
--
DavidJ...@USA.net (Email Address)
http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/candyman (Web Page)
503/905-6832 (Fax Number)
"dbf" <rat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ratkat-ya0230800...@News.ams.chello.nl...
> > In the states,
> > > you get charged per call!!!
>
> I never got charged for any calls, local calls are free. A flat monthly
> flee and I could stay online all day. Email and the WWW were everyday
> parts of life for me 5 years ago. When I came to Europe, I felt like I
had
> gone back in time and felt "disconnected" from the world. I'm happy to now
> have cable internet, but back home, people have DSL lines at their homes!
>
>
> Europe is behind because (in my opinion) because
>
> a) the cost of local calls makes it prohibitely to incorporate it into
> life as fully as you can in the US, plus computer gear is cheaper and
> "disposable income" higher in the US (that's what we get for lack of
health
> care and social services)
>
> b) Europeans (in general) seem more cautious and apprehensive of new
> technologies..they wait, whereas Americans jump in (but then, costs are
> cheaper in the US)
>
> c) Americans are more materialistic (we like our toys)....look at DVD, the
> internet, and the average American kitchen.
>
> d) (FLAME WAR bait, sorry) Europeans, despite the EU unification, are
very
> nationalistic and hesitant to join a "global community"...the large amount
> of American content/ideas probably alienates them a bit as well. The
> internet is largely considered an American entity where English is the
> accepted language.
>
>
> Just my opinions, please don't take offense.....I'd love to read other
ideas
Dave Francis
Europeans, it runs deep. I have never met an American who can hold a grudge
with you people....
Dave
--
DavidJ...@USA.net (Email Address)
http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/candyman (Web Page)
503/905-6832 (Fax Number)
"mkhan" <nomail...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:38E3601C...@usa.net...
>
>
> dbf wrote:
>
>
> > Europeans (in general) seem more cautious and apprehensive of new
> > technologies..they wait, whereas Americans jump in (but then, costs are
> > cheaper in the US)
>
> Certainly the US enjoys a considerable lead in many technologies. But to
> assume that the technologies they have are always the best and the most
> advanced does not always stand up to closer scrutiny.
>
> > Americans are more materialistic (we like our toys)....look at DVD, the
> > internet, and the average American kitchen.
>
> DVD isn't a specifically US thing. The internet, having been spawned
> from US defence-related reseach definitely used to be overwhelmingly
> dominated by US companies and institutions. The web, although the basic
> technology comes from Europe definitely was owes its public success to
> US initiative.
>
> As for the kitchen, I'd extend that statement to the average US
> household. They tend to have (and want to have) more manual-labor-saving
> devices for everything than Europeans.
>
> That doesn't mean that what they have in the USA in the way of gadgets
> and useful implements is always technologically very advanced. The
> washing machines that I saw in the USA certainly were not.
>
> Oh yes, but I do admit that the fridges can make ice cubes. :-)
>
> > Europeans, despite the EU unification, are very
> > nationalistic
>
Dave Francis
Thank God for Ford Pintos, New Coke, and the Challenger.
Dave
--
DavidJ...@USA.net (Email Address)
http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/candyman (Web Page)
503/905-6832 (Fax Number)
"TRITON" <enigma...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3KSE4.1837$pK3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Dave Francis
"Juergen Hubert" <snju...@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> wrote in message
news:38E4529A...@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de...
> Take Germany, for example. Here social status isn't dependent as much on
> one's income, but on the kind of job you hold - the more impressive the
> job title, the better. Academic titles count, too - a "Doktor" or
> "Professor" gets a lot of respect. People are often adressed by their
> titles, without using their actual names "Herr Professor" ("Mr
> Professor"), "Frau Doktor" ("Mrs Doctor"), "Herr Direktor" ("Mr CEO"),
> and so on...
>
> Talking about one's income is considered bad taste in Germany. Of
> course, people being people no matter the nationality, rich Germans find
> other ways of using money to improve their percieved social status (for
> social status is all about perception anyway). Buying titles is also
> popular - especially the area around Stuttgart is plastered with
> "Konsuls" (a kind of ambassador without any real privileges and duties -
> in those cases)...
I think that this is a product of hundreds of years of history. I think
America is too young a country to have those attitudes firmly ingrained yet.
Also, with no history of royalty, titles are a lot less impressive here.
Dave
Ricardo
vum Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:24:44 +0200 an der Newsgroup
soc.culture.nordic geschriwen:
>Ricardo wrote:
>> I think
>> even Germany is far more tolerant in this respect.
>
>"Even" Germany? More flame bait?
"Germany is such a shit country, VERY racist..." - this quote is the
stated personal opinion of someone I know, who is a white German
citizen. If I said that I openly agree with that statement 100% then
perhaps that would be flame bait, but afaik I have not.
>And yest, Germany does grant EU citizens voting rights, obviously for
>the European elections, and for the communal elections, but not for
>state and federal elections.
This is legal - however I heard a rumor that Bavaria denied certain
residents the right to vote in local elections without meeting
(illegal) residency quotas. Whether this is in fact true is another
matter entirely.
Lou Minatti™
>
> Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:39:49 +0200, mkhan <nomail...@usa.net>
> écrivait:
>
> >Other European countries are quickly catching up. In Germany, for
> >exampple, the number of internet users roughly doubled last year.
> >
> Anyway who cares ? If Internet is a culture, I'd rather keep mine.
I think it is a culture. It knocks down borders. You're either on it or
you're left behind. And industry better wake up fast to this fact: The
consumer will win and the middleman will lose in the years ahead. Bet on
Thor Thorsen
> Emol eng Keier huet mkhan <nomail...@usa.net> an engem Artikel
> vum Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:24:44 +0200 an der Newsgroup
> soc.culture.nordic geschriwen:
>
> >Ricardo wrote:
> >> I think
> >> even Germany is far more tolerant in this respect.
> >
> >"Even" Germany? More flame bait?
>
> "Germany is such a shit country, VERY racist..." - this quote is the
> stated personal opinion of someone I know, who is a white German
> citizen. If I said that I openly agree with that statement 100% then
> perhaps that would be flame bait, but afaik I have not.
>
Denmark is influenced by Germany and they're also very
xenophobic....maybe
it's a Germanic thing.
Thor Thorsen
> In article <3KSE4.1837$pK3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "TRITON" <enigma...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > JMcG wrote:
> > >The Ford Model T comes to mind as a prime
> > >example - it would never have been developed in any country in Europe
> > >at that time.
>
> > The Ford Pinto comes to mind as a prime example - it too would never
> > have
> > been developed in any country ( not even France ! and they`re not even
> > considered "gifted" when it comes to building cars ) in Europe.
> >
> > --
> > U3509
> >
> > "...Es ist besser, als ein Wolf zu sterben, denn als Hund zu leben..."
> >
>
> You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his simple
> statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
>
Plus the USA is the birthplace of the blues, jazz, gospel, folk, rock and
roll, r&b-soul, country music, rap, hip hop....and that covers a lot of
ground!!!
Thor Thorsen
> Internet: No borders, no top no bottom, ferment, diversity,
> "the stranger, the better"
>
> Europe: We love borders (sealed ones are the best), "who's on top,
> who's at the bottom", rigid order ("know your place"),
> homogeneity, kill everything strange especially strangers.
>
You're describing Denmark!! Danes love to REALLY stare at foreigners!
Cultural ignorance!!
dbf
Most "western" countries are racist, some are just better at hiding it than
others
In article <38E44F05...@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com>, Thor Thorsen
<"Thor Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote:
--
verit...@my-deja.com
"the stranger, the better"
Europe: We love borders (sealed ones are the best), "who's on top,
who's at the bottom", rigid order ("know your place"),
homogeneity, kill everything strange especially strangers.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
verit...@my-deja.com
"TRITON" <enigma...@gmx.de> wrote:
> JMcG wrote:
> >The Ford Model T comes to mind as a prime
> >example - it would never have been developed in any country in Europe
> >at that time.
> The Ford Pinto comes to mind as a prime example - it too would never
> have
> been developed in any country ( not even France ! and they`re not even
> considered "gifted" when it comes to building cars ) in Europe.
>
> --
> U3509
>
> "...Es ist besser, als ein Wolf zu sterben, denn als Hund zu leben..."
>
You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his simple
statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
verit...@my-deja.com
Juergen Hubert <snju...@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:
> While it is true that certain attitudes are more common in Europe than
> the USA, or vice versa, simply making blanket statements like the
> fisrt poster is pretty daft.
It is not a blanket statement. Europeans share some things in common.
Being culturally rigid and conservative is unfortunately one of them.
Europeans are paying a price for it and they should. There is something
wrong with Europe, and not even the Balkans and Russia will wake them
up.
In the Balkans, apparently everyone in Radovan Karadjic's home village
has the same surname as he does (really, really true)! If you have some
other surname, you are not welcome there. You could even be killed. This
metaphor can be used for all of Europe.
>
> What the first poster didn't seem to grasp is that which
> implementations
> of technologies have staying power is often a matter of accidents and
> blind chances.
More often the result of politics, manipulation and greed. The computer
as we know it and the software discipline is the AWFUL product of gredy
men who dont really know what they are doing.
The computer, PC and the Net was brought into being by the conscious
acts of men who knew what they sought and made technology serve them.
There is less accident here than you realise.
verit...@my-deja.com
Juergen Hubert <snju...@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:
> Take Germany, for example. Here social status isn't dependent as much
> on
> one's income, but on the kind of job you hold - the more impressive
> the
> job title, the better. Academic titles count, too - a "Doktor" or
> "Professor" gets a lot of respect. People are often adressed by their
> titles, without using their actual names "Herr Professor" ("Mr
> Professor"), "Frau Doktor" ("Mrs Doctor"), "Herr Direktor" ("Mr CEO"),
> and so on...
This is quite a serious problem. Most of the time the "Herrs" dont
REALLY know what they are talking about (I know quite a few of them).
The computer, Personal Computer, Internet came about because some people
realised that established views of Herrs were grossly erroneous. They
had great disrespect for authority and their established beliefs. This
is impossible to do in Germany and most of Europe. Which should explain
quite alot.
Maybe I should relate that I once met a Herr from Europe. We discussed a
subject which I had researched for many years and was quite familiar
with. He was a Professor who taught the subject as a speciality. I
demonstrated to him that his understanding was completely incorrect. He
admitted this but said he would not change his course to reflect this
because "it is natural" to think the way he did. In other words, he was
lying to his students and he knew it.
Well this problem is unfortunately rampant among Herrs who are often
frauds misguiding their students especially in disciplines which are not
in the realm of true science. They are manipulating their students and
blunting their intellect.
Ozan Ayyüce
> You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his simple
> statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
What the F...?!!? Boy, you´re talking bullshit!!
The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
has discovered the main principles of flying.
The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
this.
The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
German, invented it.
Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
beloved car were all invented in europe.
What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
with them.
Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
broken.
Ozan
PS: American cars are pieces of crap
indigo
--
<verit...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8c5eq9$q3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3KSE4.1837$pK3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "TRITON" <enigma...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > JMcG wrote:
> > >The Ford Model T comes to mind as a prime
> > >example - it would never have been developed in any country in Europe
> > >at that time.
>
>
> > The Ford Pinto comes to mind as a prime example - it too would never
> > have
> > been developed in any country ( not even France ! and they`re not even
> > considered "gifted" when it comes to building cars ) in Europe.
> >
> > --
> > U3509
> >
> > "...Es ist besser, als ein Wolf zu sterben, denn als Hund zu leben..."
> >
>
> You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his simple
> statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
>
The telephone was invented by a Canadian, Both Germany and UK had working
computers in WW2, original computer was English ~1800.
You could piss up a wall about who invented what and get nowhere. It's a
meaningless argument like saying who's dog is better. So the US had a
better car, other countries have better railroad systems, so what?
Indigo
Axel
> Except that in the USA there is free movement throughout the entire
> union, not the area minus two or three states. And in the USA the
> police do not stop people at random (especially those with a darker
> skin color?) and demand their id card, like they occasionally do
Well, yes it is done in the USA. And the police will confiscate property
at random (including cash) with little chance of it being returned.
I suspect that the only countries in Europem where ID is not required to
be produced are Scotland, Wales, England and Ireland.
T.Liljeberg
Ricardo <rica...@village.uunet.lu> wrote in message
news:c4tceskjhohnia4jf...@4ax.com...
>
> And in the USA the
> police do not stop people at random (especially those with a darker
> skin color?) and demand their id card, like they occasionally do
>
Never heard of DWB?
> So for now, USA are still a lot freer than the EU is.
Agree
> And while
> we're on the liberty front, many Americans are still permitted to
> own handguns whereas here, only Belgium really has liberal gun laws
> aiui.
And I say, good for the Europeans.
Tom
Harvey Louzon
is merely a small leap of faith to assume that we, personally, owe YOU a
debt of gratitude for this as well. Correct?
h
Ozan Ayyüce <oz...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:2hhdes0lrf92i75sn...@4ax.com...
Peter Alfke wrote:
> > The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> > has discovered the main principles of flying.
>
> Otto Lilienthal is generally considered the first man to make thousands of
> GLIDER flights ( and he got killed doing his last one ), but the Wright
> brothers were definitely the first ones to successfully fly with a motor
and
> propeller, and to do this for many years, demonstrating it even in Europe.
as I said, he developed the shape of the wings and techniques to steer
an aeroplane, which are used even in our days.
> > The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> > German, invented it.
> Conrad Zuse sure was a pioneer, and may even be the first, but you can
also
> say thatAlan Turing had done deep theortical work befor him ( in
England ),
> the British built a computer during the war ( to crack German codes,
Enugma
> and successors ) that was far more advanced than Zuse's, and today's
> computers really owe nothing to Conrad Zuse.
I think it depends on what computer is defined. He sure made the first
maschine on electrical base which used the binary system. All existing
computers in our days are based on this.
> > Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> > beloved car were all invented in europe.
> True, although the Chinese invented "the principles of rockets" a thousand
> years ago...
yes but they flew everywhere but not into the sky :-)
> > What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> > with them.
> Anything wrong with that?
of course not, but this is not inventing it.
> > Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> > please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> > broken.
> German history books emphasize Germans, Russian books prove that there
always
> was a Russioan first, and American book ara also blatantly nationalistic.
Yes but i dont think it is right to state that all inventions we are
talking about came from the US.
> Smart inventors exist everywhere, but the Americans have a knack for
> technology and its practical and economic use.
Sure and this is the problem europe has.
> Also, most American inventors
> are of European ancestry, many of them first generation or immigrants
like
> I am ).
> Nationalistic flag-waving may be fun, but proves nothing.
I don´t like "flag-waving" at all, but if some simple-minded americans
think we are living in the mid-age here I have to write something to
show them how wrong they are.
> > PS: American cars are pieces of crap
>
> Used to be, ten and twenty years ago. Not any more :-)
Well, in relation to what is on our streets they are crap :-)
Thor Thorsen
> verit...@my-deja.com schrieb:
>
> > You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his simple
> > statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> > airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
>
> What the F...?!!? Boy, you´re talking bullshit!!
>
> The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> has discovered the main principles of flying.
>
> The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
> this.
>
> The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> German, invented it.
>
> Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> beloved car were all invented in europe.
>
> What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> with them.
>
> Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> broken.
>
> Ozan
>
> PS: American cars are pieces of crap
You forgot that the Germans "invented" 2 World Wars too! Congratulations!
Thor Thorsen
> So since Germans, ostensibly, invented all of these things I suppose that it
> is merely a small leap of faith to assume that we, personally, owe YOU a
> debt of gratitude for this as well. Correct?
>
>
We flattened Dresden.
Thor Thorsen
> Unknown poster wrote:
> >If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> > airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
>
> Understand what ? That the "US" usually steals (esp. in the past ) European
> inventions and sells them as their own ? ( Such as that computer thing up
> there. Try ZUSE (Germany) Jun/July 1943, COLOSSUS (England) Dec. 1943, US
> only devised ENIAC in 1945 with British help.)
>
> The telephone was invented by a Brit, Alexander Graham Bell. The world's
> first powered flight ( powered by a steam engine) took place not in America
> in 1903, but at Chard in Somerset in 1848, and the man who made it happen
> was John Stringfellow, a Brit, again.
>
>
Yeah, so where is the birthplace of the blues, jazz, rock & roll, r&b,
country,
folk, rap, hip hop? Britain? Nope.
Thor Thorsen
> Emol eng Keier huet Thor Thorsen <"Thor
> Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> an engem Artikel vum Fri, 31 Mar
> 2000 20:59:46 +0200 an der Newsgroup soc.culture.nordic geschriwen:
>
> >You're describing Denmark!! Danes love to REALLY stare at foreigners!
> >Cultural ignorance!!
>
> Nice troll!
>
>
You can call it what you like...it is STILL cultural ignorance!
Ricardo
<snju...@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> an engem Artikel vum Thu, 30 Mar
2000 17:31:32 +0200 an der Newsgroup soc.culture.nordic geschriwen:
>"Closed": In pretty much the entire European Union, there's only a sign
>on the side of the highway to tell you that you've passed into another
>country. Not much difference between that and the state borders in the
>USA.
Except that in the USA there is free movement throughout the entire
union, not the area minus two or three states. And in the USA the
police do not stop people at random (especially those with a darker
skin color?) and demand their id card, like they occasionally do
here. And in the USA there is no "suspension of Schengen" which
means all of a sudden two armed and uniformed Bundesgrenzschutz
officers spontaneously appear coincidentally at the time and place
one is crossing an internal frontier... (all these based on my
personal experiences as well as concrete legal facts)
So for now, USA are still a lot freer than the EU is. And while
we're on the liberty front, many Americans are still permitted to
own handguns whereas here, only Belgium really has liberal gun laws
aiui.
>And if you pass into an EU country, your intelligence isn't insulted by
>demands to sign a paper in which you have to state, among other things,
>whether or not you intend to assassinate the president while you're
>there...
At least US citizens don't have to suffer this garbage coming here,
true. Another question on the US visa waiver immigration card which
always made me crack up was "Have you ever been involved with Hitler
or Nazi Germany?". Almost makes one wish to write "Goebbels" as the
surname and "yes" as the answer...
Ricardo
Sat, 01 Apr 2000 18:34:55 +0200 an der Newsgroup soc.culture.nordic
geschriwen:
>Most "western" countries are racist, some are just better at hiding it than
>others
Superbly put.
Ricardo
Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> an engem Artikel vum Fri, 31 Mar
2000 20:59:46 +0200 an der Newsgroup soc.culture.nordic geschriwen:
>You're describing Denmark!! Danes love to REALLY stare at foreigners!
>Cultural ignorance!!
Nice troll!
--
Peter Alfke
"Ozan Ayyüce" wrote:
> The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> has discovered the main principles of flying.
Otto Lilienthal is generally considered the first man to make thousands of
GLIDER flights ( and he got killed doing his last one ), but the Wright
brothers were definitely the first ones to successfully fly with a motor and
propeller, and to do this for many years, demonstrating it even in Europe.
>
>
> The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
> this.
Well, Philip Reis tried to do it, but his invention never really worked. He
could not get the microphone to work. Even Graham Bell, the generally
recognized inventor of the telephone, had trouble with the mike, and Edison
solved that problem.
>
>
> The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> German, invented it.
Conrad Zuse sure was a pioneer, and may even be the first, but you can also
say thatAlan Turing had done deep theortical work befor him ( in England ),
the British built a computer during the war ( to crack German codes, Enugma
and successors ) that was far more advanced than Zuse's, and today's
computers really owe nothing to Conrad Zuse.
>
>
> Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> beloved car were all invented in europe.
True, although the Chinese invented "the principles of rockets" a thousand
years ago...
>
>
> What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> with them.
Anything wrong with that?
>
>
> Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> broken.
German history books emphasize Germans, Russian books prove that there always
was a Russioan first, and American book ara also blatantly nationalistic.
Smart inventors exist everywhere, but the Americans have a knack for
technology and its practical and economic use. Also, most American inventors
are of European ancestry, many of them first generation or immigrants ( like
I am ).
Nationalistic flag-waving may be fun, but proves nothing.
Peter Alfke
>
>
> Ozan
>
> PS: American cars are pieces of crap
Used to be, ten and twenty years ago. Not any more :-)
Ozan Ayyüce
> > The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> > has discovered the main principles of flying.
>
> Otto Lilienthal is generally considered the first man to make thousands of
> GLIDER flights ( and he got killed doing his last one ), but the Wright
> brothers were definitely the first ones to successfully fly with a motor and
> propeller, and to do this for many years, demonstrating it even in Europe.
as I said, he developed the shape of the wings and techniques to steer
an aeroplane, which are used even in our days.
> > The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> > German, invented it.
> Conrad Zuse sure was a pioneer, and may even be the first, but you can also
> say thatAlan Turing had done deep theortical work befor him ( in England ),
> the British built a computer during the war ( to crack German codes, Enugma
> and successors ) that was far more advanced than Zuse's, and today's
> computers really owe nothing to Conrad Zuse.
I think it depends on what computer is defined. He sure made the first
maschine on electrical base which used the binary system. All existing
computers in our days are based on this.
> > Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> > beloved car were all invented in europe.
> True, although the Chinese invented "the principles of rockets" a thousand
> years ago...
yes but they flew everywhere but not into the sky :-)
> > What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> > with them.
> Anything wrong with that?
of course not, but this is not inventing it.
> > Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> > please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> > broken.
> German history books emphasize Germans, Russian books prove that there always
> was a Russioan first, and American book ara also blatantly nationalistic.
Yes but i dont think it is right to state that all inventions we are
talking about came from the US.
> Smart inventors exist everywhere, but the Americans have a knack for
> technology and its practical and economic use.
Sure and this is the problem europe has.
> Also, most American inventors
> are of European ancestry, many of them first generation or immigrants ( like
> I am ).
> Nationalistic flag-waving may be fun, but proves nothing.
I don´t like "flag-waving" at all, but if some simple-minded americans
think we are living in the mid-age here I have to write something to
show them how wrong they are.
> > PS: American cars are pieces of crap
>
> Used to be, ten and twenty years ago. Not any more :-)
Well, in relation to what is on our streets they are crap :-)
Lou Minatti™
> PS: American cars are pieces of crap
That's a blanket statement that's no longer really true. Sure, GM still
sucks, and they're paying for it in the marketplace. But Ford and
Chrysler are putting out decent products. Isn't this a stupid debate
since car companies are now multinational conglomerates? A German
company now owns Chrysler, American companies own many European
manufacturers, Ford owns Mazda, and Honda, a Japanese company, is now
supplying engines to competitors.
Personally, I drive a Toyota built in the U.S. Toyota's are far superior
to any other vehicle on the road today. You can easily run a Toyota for
100K miles with minimal problems. Is a Toyota engineered and built in
the U.S. an American car or a Japanese car? You tell me.
Lou Minatti™
> At least US citizens don't have to suffer this garbage coming here,
> true. Another question on the US visa waiver immigration card which
> always made me crack up was "Have you ever been involved with Hitler
> or Nazi Germany?". Almost makes one wish to write "Goebbels" as the
> surname and "yes" as the answer...
Flying back to the States I'm always struck by Customs. If you have an
American passport it's a breeze. They scan your passport and you're
done. If you don't have an American passport, it certainly looks like a
major hassle. I don't know since I've never had to go through it, and I
am curious as to what they ask. I will say that it takes me less than a
minute to get through Customs in Europe once I get to the counter. You
get to the counter, the burly guy looks at you, stamps your passport and
you're done.
Seems to be the same when driving back from Canada or Mexico. If you
have a U.S. license plate, it's pretty fast. Only one time did I have to
stop for an inspection, and that was for the Mexican Federales. They had
me pop my trunk. They looked in a cooler I had back there, saw a bunch
of Cokes and beer, and then let me through.
Lou Minatti™
>
> Ricardo <rica...@village.uunet.lu> wrote in message
> news:c4tceskjhohnia4jf...@4ax.com...
> >
> > police do not stop people at random (especially those with a darker
> > skin color?) and demand their id card, like they occasionally do
> > here.
> >
Driving While Black. Some people might not be familiar with that. It is
indeed a problem. OTOH, I question if it's really that widespread, or if
limited to certain locales. I have a black friend who frequently drives
back home to Louisiana from Houston. His car broke down one night in
deep east Texas, in a place even white-boy-me is not comfortable with.
We're talking redneck hell. Cops saw him broke down, then drove him into
town and deposited him at a local motel since no mechanics were
available at that time. Despite the fact that my friend's never had
problems, I'm not gonna say it's not a problem since I can't walk in a
black man's shoes.
Lou Minatti™
> geschriwen:
>
> >others
>
> Superbly put.
So are most "eastern" countries. Fact is, most people harbor racism.
Those who don't have to make a conscious effort to push that crap out of
their mind. It's ugly, but that's human nature.
TRITON
>If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
Understand what ? That the "US" usually steals (esp. in the past ) European
inventions and sells them as their own ? ( Such as that computer thing up
there. Try ZUSE (Germany) Jun/July 1943, COLOSSUS (England) Dec. 1943, US
only devised ENIAC in 1945 with British help.)
The telephone was invented by a Brit, Alexander Graham Bell. The world's
first powered flight ( powered by a steam engine) took place not in America
in 1903, but at Chard in Somerset in 1848, and the man who made it happen
was John Stringfellow, a Brit, again.
TRITON
>The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
>has discovered the main principles of flying.
>The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
>this.
>The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
>German, invented it.
>Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
>beloved car were all invented in europe.
>What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
>with them.
>Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
>please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
>broken.
Well, i guess about that flying thing, they didn`t do it anyway, no matter
how you twist it. Principles go back to Lilienthal, Bernoullie (sp) etc. The
first POWERED flight was made by Stringfellow in 1848 in England,
incoorperating these principles. The Smithsonian Institute has protected the
"phrase" "Inventors of the Plane" etc and what comes with it regarding the
Wright Brothers and their plane. Must be a reason, ehh ?
Telephone. See ? Typical...same as above, no matter how you twist it, it
comes down to the fact that the US had basically nothing to do with it. If
Reis or Bell, both Europeans.
Computer. ZUSE, COLOSSUS etc....same - Europeans. US was slow as usual and
needed European help.
Jet engines etc. Yup. US build their first jet at the end of 1944 i think,
and only with a LOT of help from the Brits, again.
TRITON
>> PS: American cars are pieces of crap
>Used to be, ten and twenty years ago. Not any more :-)
Still...
Axel
> Flying back to the States I'm always struck by Customs. If you have an
> American passport it's a breeze. They scan your passport and you're
> done. If you don't have an American passport, it certainly looks like a
> major hassle. I don't know since I've never had to go through it, and I
> am curious as to what they ask. I will say that it takes me less than a
> minute to get through Customs in Europe once I get to the counter. You
> get to the counter, the burly guy looks at you, stamps your passport and
> you're done.
It was only a problem for me on my first visit (presumably having seen
that I had entered and left the country established some sort of track
record). But on that first visit the immigration guard did not seem over
impressed that I was going to spend three months doing nothing more than
travelling around and drinking beer.
Lou Minatti™
>
> Peter Alfke wrote:
> >> PS: American cars are pieces of crap
>
> >Used to be, ten and twenty years ago. Not any more :-)
>
> Still...
Still... what?
JMcG
usually depends on the contributions of many. But the real significance of
any invention for society depends on its development, and Veritas provided a
provocative model of differences of cultural habits and attitudes that
could account for American success in this area. Rather than howl about how
insulting his charges were, it would be more profitable (for Europeans) to
examine their validity. Because SOMETHING accounts for this difference. As
Peter pointed out, these Americans are for the most part, transplanted
Europeans who apparently see things differently in another social milieu.
(BTW isn't the British Babbage credited with the invention of the computer?)
Regards
John
"Peter Alfke" <pal...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:38E6BF80...@earthlink.net...
>
>
> "Ozan Ayyüce" wrote:
>
> > The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> > has discovered the main principles of flying.
>
> Otto Lilienthal is generally considered the first man to make thousands of
> GLIDER flights ( and he got killed doing his last one ), but the Wright
> brothers were definitely the first ones to successfully fly with a motor
and
> propeller, and to do this for many years, demonstrating it even in Europe.
>
> >
> >
> > The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
> > this.
>
> Well, Philip Reis tried to do it, but his invention never really worked.
He
> could not get the microphone to work. Even Graham Bell, the generally
> recognized inventor of the telephone, had trouble with the mike, and
Edison
> solved that problem.
>
>
> >
> >
> > The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> > German, invented it.
>
> Conrad Zuse sure was a pioneer, and may even be the first, but you can
also
> say thatAlan Turing had done deep theortical work befor him ( in
England ),
> the British built a computer during the war ( to crack German codes,
Enugma
> and successors ) that was far more advanced than Zuse's, and today's
> computers really owe nothing to Conrad Zuse.
>
> >
> >
> > Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> > beloved car were all invented in europe.
>
> True, although the Chinese invented "the principles of rockets" a thousand
> years ago...
>
> >
> >
> > What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> > with them.
>
> Anything wrong with that?
>
> >
> >
> > Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> > please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> > broken.
>
> German history books emphasize Germans, Russian books prove that there
always
> was a Russioan first, and American book ara also blatantly nationalistic.
> Smart inventors exist everywhere, but the Americans have a knack for
> technology and its practical and economic use. Also, most American
inventors
> are of European ancestry, many of them first generation or immigrants
like
> I am ).
> Nationalistic flag-waving may be fun, but proves nothing.
>
> Peter Alfke
>
> >
> >
> > Ozan
Peter Lemken
>Internet: No borders, no top no bottom, ferment, diversity,
> "the stranger, the better"
>
>Europe: We love borders (sealed ones are the best), "who's on top,
> who's at the bottom", rigid order ("know your place"),
> homogeneity, kill everything strange especially strangers.
s/Europe/USA
Peter Lemken
Berlin
Peter Lemken
>At least US citizens don't have to suffer this garbage coming here,
>true. Another question on the US visa waiver immigration card which
>always made me crack up was "Have you ever been involved with Hitler
>or Nazi Germany?". Almost makes one wish to write "Goebbels" as the
>surname and "yes" as the answer...
That's a riot, isn't it. I love the last sentence on this green paper. It
goes something like: "If you answered any of the above questions with
'Yes' you should contact an official representative before you enter the
USA. Should I contact the pilot and ask him to turn back?
Peter Lemken
Berlin
Dave Blair
news:G5JF4.8616$TM.4...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Determining who invented what is always difficult since the end
> result usually depends on the contributions of many. But the
> real significance of any invention for society depends on its
> development, and Veritas provided a provocative model
iow, flamebait.
> of
> differences of cultural habits and attitudes that could account
> for American success in this area. Rather than howl about how
> insulting his charges were,
They were pretty insulting. And extremely ignorant and
exaggerated.
> it would be more profitable (for
> Europeans) to examine their validity.
Er, "the Europeans" are not children to heed the words of the
great Veritas. Veritas mouthed off. If he expects instant nodding
(oh veritably, Mr. Veritas, you are right, we are all
closed-minded anal rententives), he's a fool.
> Because SOMETHING
> accounts for this difference. As Peter pointed out, these
> Americans are for the most part, transplanted Europeans who
> apparently see things differently in another social milieu.
As has been mentioned before, a surprising number of inventions
have come from any immigrants to a any country; somehow, that
seems to have gone under in the general discussion.
I agree with Veritas that more economic and social freedoms are
conducive to more inventiveness *and* willingness to take the
risks to bring it onto the market (the latter is surely a
no-brainer). And yes, the US *as a whole* has the edge, but not
that much. The Europeans are (mostly) freeing up; maybe not at
the pace that Veritas would think suitable (like, tomorrow), but
as fast as can be reasonably expected for 350+ million
inhabitants of 15 distinctly different countries and cultures.
That's not because we're following the great USA, but because we
know we're stuffed in the long term if we don't get rid of our
precious state interventionism, protectionism etc. My general
impression (and it is only that, so don't bite my head off) is
that the US trend is in the opposite direction. So, I disagree
with his simplified view of "the Europeans" (or "the Americans"
for that matter).
Now, if Veritas writes flamebait, it is a tall order indeed to
expect anyone to take whatever else he says seriously, however
much truth may be buried deep inside.
Dave
--
Dave Blair
Halle/Saale, Germany
Anne Hildrum
Axel <ax...@white-eagle.co.uk> skrev i
meldingsnyheter:8c5v8b$e1$1...@weber.a2000.nl...
entire
> > police do not stop people at random (especially those with a
darker
> > skin color?) and demand their id card, like they occasionally do
>
property
> at random (including cash) with little chance of it being returned.
>
> I suspect that the only countries in Europem where ID is not
required to
> be produced are Scotland, Wales, England and Ireland.
Don't need an ID card in Norway.
Anne
indigo
--
Thor Thorsen <"Thor Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote in message
news:38E611D4...@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com...
> "Ozan Ayyüce" wrote:
>
> > verit...@my-deja.com schrieb:
> >
> > > You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his
simple
> > > statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> > > airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
> >
> > What the F...?!!? Boy, you´re talking bullshit!!
> >
> > The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> > has discovered the main principles of flying.
> >
> > The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
> > this.
> >
> > The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> > German, invented it.
> >
> > Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> > beloved car were all invented in europe.
> >
> > What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> > with them.
> >
> > Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> > please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> > broken.
> >
> > Ozan
> >
> > PS: American cars are pieces of crap
>
>
>
> You forgot that the Germans "invented" 2 World Wars too! Congratulations!
>
WW1 was an inevitable clash between rivals, hardly something that could be
blamed on one side or the other.
WW2 was created by Britain and France seeking repayment for WW1. Without
Versailes there never wouls have been a Hitler.
indigo
--
Thor Thorsen <"Thor Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote in message
news:38E63A0F...@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com...
You're proud of that?
Andre
Thor Thorsen from Denmark wrote:
> We flattened Dresden.
So you flattened Dresden? ROTFL A kind of adolescent wetdream.
Well I suposse, if you would have been old enough, you rather would have
licked Gestapo boots. Judging your preference in killing civilians.
TRITON
>Versailes there never wouls have been a Hitler.
Don`t forget the overproduction of goods in the US after WW2 throughout the
twenties and the missing export markets overseas because Europe was in
shambles, which led to the inevitable Black Friday and hence more
unemployment in Europe etcetcblablabla.....
TRITON
We flattened Coventry, whats your point here if any?
Dark Stalker
indigo <indi...@intergate.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:sefdf5...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> --
>
>
> Thor Thorsen <"Thor Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote in message
> > "Ozan Ayyüce" wrote:
> >
> > > verit...@my-deja.com schrieb:
> > >
> > > > You just dont get it. JMcG is saying something very deep with his
> simple
> > > > statement. If you understood, you will see why the US invented the
> > > > airplane, telephone, transistor, computer etc and NOT europe.
> > >
> > > What the F...?!!? Boy, you´re talking bullshit!!
> > >
> > > The Airplane was NOT invented in the US, Otto Lilienthal, a German,
> > > has discovered the main principles of flying.
alledgedly made man carrying kites.The inventor was
executed by his Emporor .(believing that enemys could fly over the great
wall and drop rocks on the chinese armies)
> > >
> > > The Telephone was NOT invented in the US, Phillip Reis, a German did
>..... Bell was a scot at the time of invention and the serb claim to
invent the telephone.
> > > this.
> > >
> > > The Computer was NOT invented in the US, Conrad Zuse, guess what: a
> > > German, invented it.
Bollocks .....Babbage invented it .The first modern computer was the enigma
cracker at camp zero.Funnily enougth it was stolen Yesterday.Even the
internet was built
on english research which was well ahead until the pentagon pumped defense
money into their own research
> > >
> > > Furthermore fax, the principles of rockets, jet engines, and your
> > > beloved car were all invented in europe.
> > >
> > > What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
> > > with them.
> > >
> > > Please take a history book and educate yourself a little bit, but
> > > please expect that your "Americans did it all"-Attitude will be
> > > broken.
> > >
> > > Ozan
> > >
> > > PS: American cars are pieces of crap
> >
> >
> >
> > You forgot that the Germans "invented" 2 World Wars too!
Congratulations!
> >
> WW1 was an inevitable clash between rivals, hardly something that could be
> blamed on one side or the other.
>
TRITON
>You forgot that the Germans "invented" 2 World Wars too! Congratulations!
WW1, if we engage in Haarspalterei, was started by Austria-Hungary / Serbia.
Serbia had Russian support, Russia had French support, France had British
support and they had the Italians too; Austria-Hungary had German support.
It might also interest you that Germany was the LAST country to mobilise its
forces when it was evident that an armed conflict was inevitable.
WW2 was the direct result of WW1. Even a French General said in 1919, after
the Treaty of Versailles was signed, that " this is a peace for twenty years
" due to the humiliating terms imposed on Germany alone for a war which was
NOT started by Germany in the first place.
WW2 started as a European conflict anyway (Germany - Poland 1:0 ). Germany
did not declare war on England or France, but vice versa. This european
conflict slowly evolved into a World War, the circumstances of why and how
it evolved are rather complex and due to the fact that you came up with that
BS up there to which im responding here, i don`t think that you`re mentally
capable of digesting this complex matter.
TRITON
After WW1 that is, typo
TRITON
>cracker at camp zero.
Bollocks, as you like to say.
That Enigma cracker was COLOSSUS, and England developed and built it
independently in Dec. 1943. ZUSE was finished by Jun/July 1943 and it was
programmable.
Or were you talking about these "Bombes" they used to crack ENIGMA codes
with ? How can they steal an "ancient" computer which fills a whole room ?
TRITON
>America's the most civilized country on earth. God Bless.
Is that based on actual-imagined facts or do you smoke grass ?
Marc Steinkoenig
verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Internet: Open, Friendly, Interactive, Fair, Sociable.
>
Bullshit.
Internet: Trolling, Flaming, Invented by Al Gore, bunch of loud mouths wasting
bandwidth by posting their marxist guerilla-rap lyric-crap from school
computers, pyramid schemes, ponzi crap, evil child molesters wading in
cybernetic kiddie pool, X-baiting Klansmen searching for victims of next high
tech lynching, etc.
> Europe: Closed, Hostile, Disconnected, Dominating, Antagonistic.
More Bullshit:
Europe, a continent comprised of over 300 million human beings, each with
his/her own opinion, more than willing to inflict it upon others on the Internet
(much like the rest of the human race, it seems).
>
> The Internet is a culture, not a technology.
>
The Internet is a multi-level marketing project which caters
to rabble-rousers. Kind of like a Nike commercial.
Marc Steinkoenig
Dave Francis wrote:
> You guys in Europe have a different sort of nationalism than we do. In
> Europeans, it runs deep. I have never met an American who can hold a grudge
> with you people....
I have...
Marc Steinkoenig
verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Internet: No borders, no top no bottom, ferment, diversity,
> "the stranger, the better"
That's not true at all, dude. If you're too strange, then you're probably
off-topic and they'll ignore your post...
Lou Minatti™
> WW2 started as a European conflict anyway (Germany - Poland 1:0 ). Germany
> did not declare war on England or France, but vice versa. This european
> conflict slowly evolved into a World War, the circumstances of why and how
> it evolved are rather complex and due to the fact that you came up with that
> BS up there to which im responding here, i don`t think that you`re mentally
> capable of digesting this complex matter.
You make it sound like Germany was just innocently sitting there in the
late 1930's and suddenly the French and British attacked for no reason.
Thor Thorsen
Yes we enjoyed it very much.
Thor Thorsen
> --
>
> Thor Thorsen <"Thor Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> wrote in message
> news:38E63A0F...@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com...
> > Harvey Louzon wrote:
> >
> > > So since Germans, ostensibly, invented all of these things I suppose
> that it
> > > is merely a small leap of faith to assume that we, personally, owe YOU a
> > > debt of gratitude for this as well. Correct?
> >
> > We flattened Dresden.
>
> You're proud of that?
Yep.
Hugh Watkins
>Happens all the time. For example, the standard QWERTY keyboard (the one
>you are likely using right now) was designed to slow the typists of
>former times down - beacuse the first typewriters couldn't handle a
>faster pace. Far more efficient keyboards could be designed today, but
>what are the odds of them replacing the current standard?
dvorak amd maltron can be purchased
but voice will soon replace keyboards
Hugh W
Hugh Watkins
>What the US did, was to take this inventions, develope and make money
>with them.
the www was made by an englishman working in Europe
Hugh W
Thor Thorsen
> verit...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > It is not a blanket statement. Europeans share some things in common.
> > Being culturally rigid and conservative is unfortunately one of them.
>
> [ More Nonsense snipped ]
>
> Hearing from US-Americans, of all people, that Europe is too closed and
> too nationalistic, is a joke.
>
> Open?
>
> Which US citizen, even if well-educated, can utter a meaningful sentence
> in any language other than English? Practically all educated Europeans
> can ... often they master more than one foreign language.
You do out of necessity...You have to learn English. How many people
speak
Danish outside of DK, or Finnish outside of Finland?
Fact: You Europeans have to learn English if you want to make it in the
international business world. Americans don't need to learn Danish,
Finnish, Swedish, etc. or any other European language other than
Spanish......because the US has a large Spanish population.
> Going to the
> trouble and effort of learning a foreign language is the prerequisite of
> learning about a foreign culture. Refusing to do so is the opposite of
> openness.
>
American high school students are required to learn a foreign language
but
it's usually the major European languages...Spanish, French, Italian,
German...certainly not Danish, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish, Flemish...if
some
Americans are really interested in learning a certain foreign language,
they
can do so in a university. They are available.
> Movies ... another sign of supposed US openness. The US market is
> practically closed to foreign movie productions. If a movie becomes a
> hit abroad, it's very rare that it will come to US movie theatres. More
> likely, an US studio will purchase the rights and produce a remake of
> it. Often the remake is exactly like the original in plot, including the
> gags, but with US actors and in a familiar (to US movie-goers) US
> setting. People in the USA don't seem to want to see or hear anything
> about foreign countries. That is not exactly a sign of openness either.
> Quite the contrary.
>
I've seen foreign films in the US...You have no idea what you are
talking
about.
>
> During the last summer Olympics, I happened to be in the USA and watched
> some of the reports on US TV. I've never seen such a limited coverage.
> Almost exclusively US athletes and teams were shown and talked about. If
> non-US athletes were on, even if they were runner-ups for the gold medal
> in their discipline, more likely than not they would get no media
> coverage at all, and certainly no live sportscast, in this supposedly so
> open country. Let's face it folks. Open, the USA ain't.
>
Well you did see it in the USA so I guess TV stations would spend more
air
time on American athletes.....In DK for example, during the Tour de
France,
they ALWAYS talk about the Danish bikers....it doesn't matter who
wins......If Bjørn Riis comes in 25th, they would spend more time on him
than the winner....it happens in every country....Swedish TV would spend
more time on Swedish bikers, etc. etc......nothing wrong with that.
>
> Which directly leads to the next topic ...
>
> Nationalistic?
>
> Any concert, sports event or other major affair in the USA begins with
> the singing of the national anthem. If some celebrity gets to do it,
> often it's really hyped up, warbled tearfully, with gooey histrionics.
> It begs ridicule.
>
Ah......concerts do not begin with the national anthem. sports yes...In
Canada as well...They also do it at the Olympics....they always play the
winner's national anthem....even if he/she is from YOUR country...Does
that
bother you?
>
> And those other songs. "America, the beautiful, God shed his grace on
> thee" or "I'm glad to be an American" (I never bothered to remember the
> exact words). Those are just too corny for words. Sure people wrote the
> same kind of songs in the past century in European countries, but we
> wouldn't dream of singing them.
>
Yes but you get even....you have that "European Song of the Year"
contest
every year where they scrape the bottom of the barrel for talent from
every
European country.
>
> And how about making school kids who are too young to understand just
> what this means pledge allegiance to the flag and to one nation,
> indivisble, under God? Where in Europe is such a thing done?
>
> The USA is just about as nationalistic as can be. Far more so than
> European countries.
You haven't been to Denmark.
Thor Thorsen
> Thor Thorsen <"Thor Thorsen"@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com> > heeft geschreven in bericht
> <38E6D5CF...@ItDoesNotReallyMatter.com>...
> Sick little puppy loves to suck american ass.
Can you please elaborate? :)