Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

How The Dutch Sold Their Souls To The Devil

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Sound of Trumpet

unread,
May 18, 2007, 2:40:52 PM5/18/07
to
http://fpb.livejournal.com/173966.html

Fabio Paolo Barbieri (fpb) wrote


2006-05-17 15:52:00

The temptation of politeness


A few days ago I wrote an entry about the problems that my tendency to
rage caused in my relationships with others. I have no doubt that a
lot of people will have read the last entry - about the abomination
that is Dutch law, especially on euthanasia, and about the atrocious
behaviour of the Dutch government in the matter of Ayaan Hirsi Ali -
and thought of that. Except that in this case, this does not apply.

Everything is right in proportion. It is wrong and silly to burst into
fury over some fandom quarrel - such as the Blaise Zabini affair a
while back - even though I may feel that I am in the right, or at
least that I have a good argument that other people insist on refusing
to understand. But when you are dealing with mass murder under the
most obscene conditions and for the most obscene reasons, then exactly
the opposite is the case. Then what is wrong is to yeld to the
temptation of politeness; and speak and act as though mass murder were
a reasonable, sensible, civilized alternative to be discussed in
courteous tones - instead of a foul abomination whose very mention
ought to make us shudder with disgust and wonder at a world where such
things do not bring down fire from the sky.

A few days ago we celebrated Mother's Day. I have been particularly
lucky in my mother - as beautiful as she is intelligent, as brave as
she is unselfish, and so full of good things that it took me some time
to realize that, like all other human beings, she had her flaws. To be
sure, not everyone has my good luck - I could mention my mother's own
sister, but I won't. There are indifferent or bad mothers. But having
said that, everyone knows this: that only the greatest saints perform,
in their lives, as many unselfish and helpful and loving things as a
quite ordinary mother does in the ordinary course of her work. She is
alwyas the one who takes the bad part of the chicken, who stays up
late if the baby cannot sleep, who carves out time in her scarce
timetable to take her child to school or to play - who is there a
million times, too often to mention, until you realize that you have
relied on her all your life and taken it quite for granted. After all,
what is the one thing that no man will let pass, what is the one thing
that nobody will ever allow to be said in his presence? We all know
it: "Don't you dare touch my mother. You can say what you want about
me, but, by God, don't you dare touch my mother." Thugs and criminals
revere one thing in their filthy lives - their mother - when they
revere nothing else. Sane men and women know it instinctively. It is
for this reason, for this background of unselfish love that lies like
a mountain wall all around the beginnings of our lives, the towering
protection and help that has made us born and fed us and kept and
helped us grow, that we Christians have come to see in the Blessed
Virgin the highest of all saints: if that is what is our mother means
to us, how much more - of the same, but how much more - must have been
in the mother of the Saviour, in the mother of God in man? It is for
this reason, just as any self-respecting man will fight for his
mother's good name, that Christians going to war to save their nations
and their people from oppression, have many, many times seen above the
terror of the battlefield, warm and loving and peaceful in her blue
mantle, Our Lady of Victories; and charged in Her name, through terror
and pain and death, to victory and salvation.

This is what I, what any person, owes to his or her mother. The
intensity of the love of the average person for his or her mother is
not commonly realized, for the same reason why we do not stop to think
that we look on the world from a walking six-foot tower; that it is
fundamental to us. And as for our mother, so for our father. Our
father is different - he is the person who comes in from outside, the
voice of a strange stern world of work and fatigue and contact with
little-known and unsympathetic beings, bosses, colleagues, clients.
But he is the one who feeds us and looks after us; the one we go to in
trouble or fear; the last bulwark in our need; and, on occasion, the
extravagantly generous source of largesse - if mother is the one who
will always give us a candy bar or a banana, father is the one who
from time to time will slip us, from the apparently infinite resources
of his labour and of his sometimes saturnine kindness, the unimagined
wonder of a twenty-pound note or of a new bicycle or of a TV. As a
rule, it will come as a surprise, and when you least expected it - and
you realize that he has heard you talk about god knows how far back,
and kept it in his mind. The average human's love for his/her father
may not be as intense, as flesh-warm, as passionate, as that for the
mother; but it is not less deep. He is the standard of value, the
authority whose views are deferred to and whose statements are quoted.
He is the first hero we look up to, and the first person in whom we
have absolute confidence, even - strange mystery of the human soul -
when we rebel against him.

Yes, there are men and women who fall short of this - even very far
short. But this is what being a father, being a mother, means. And
even those among fathers and mothers who fall far short of the ideal,
still can call on us for a debt that cannot be repaid: they made us.
Their will is the reason we are here. And in so far as they were
father and mother at all, however little that may have been, to that
extent they were those great and beloved figures. There is no other
fatherhood or motherhood. And there is no human being who does not
deserve one, or wish they had when they had not.

And in the course of normal, sane human life, the time comes when we
can, if not repay them for what they have done for us - which is quite
literally impossible - at least make manifest to them our gratitude
and our love. It is when they are old; when they are weak; when they
perhaps have regressed, and need - for the first time - our help. This
is a privilege that life gives us: that in a forest of unpaid and
unpayable obligations, of random events and people we meet once and
never again, there are two people in the world to whom we can do
something to repay what they have done for us. As a rule, we do not do
enough. By the standards of what the average mother has done
throughout her life, it would not be too much, when she is old and
weak, to carry her around on your back, or, like Solon's two young
men, pull her chariot like oxen. Luckily such shifts are rarely
needed; but it certainly is our function, once our parents can no
longer look after themselves, to look after them. What decent human
being would think otherwise?

A Dutchman. A Dutchman would think otherwise. A Dutchman would think
that the proper reward for the life his parents gave him is a bullet
through the head, or rather, since that is what we are talking about,
a lethal injection. A Dutchman would think that the proper reward is
not to look after your father after his fourth heart attack, or your
mother under advanced Parkinson's, but to let them die. Die with
dignity, they call it.

Let us not even speak the base and disgusting reason behind ninety per
cent of these displays of love - money; let us leave unmentioned the
expense and time that it takes to look after a fragile old person who
is never going to get better, because, truly, the only problem with
him or her is old age - the weariness of years many of which were
spent in your service. Let us assume that the Dutch really mean it,
and do not lie like Dutchmen, when they say that what they really
dread is the loss of dignity. Do you know what that means? Moral
cowardice. It means not to be able to look at the horror of human life
in the eye - the horror of illness, the horror of helplessness, the
horror of dependency and exhaustion and pain and loss of control. It
means taking death as an escape from these facts of life; and taking
it, not for oneself, but for others - removing the object of horror
from your sight, so that you do not have to be reminded that one day
you, too, will be like this - trembling, helpless, weak, dribbling,
blind, cold. It means killing people rather than be reminded that
people must die. This is the noble, the elevated, the lofty principle
of choice - that choice which begins when the doctor marks an old
person down for the exit lounge, and ends when the old person,
pestered and prodded by eager relatives and heartless medics, weary
and sick and tired of life, or perhaps too far gone to understand,
gives an extorted consent - and "dies with dignity."

As a Dutch citizen, dreamer_marie will, if her parents live long
enough, be eventually asked to consent to their murder; this is
certain. I hope that she has enough human left in her - to quote
Hagrid - to tell the first, second and third person who make such a
suggestion to go jump out the window; but what if she is so stuffed
with the fraud of euthanasia to see what it is that she is consenting
to? What if I am speaking with a person who, one day, will have her
parents killed - because that is the way things are done where she
comes from? Should I have been polite about it? Does anyone have such
a vile idea of me as to expect me, for a minute, to be polite about
it? Now that would be an insult.

And as for the horrendous cowardice of many Dutchmen in the matter of
Hirsi Ali, I think it is directly connected. This nation has sold its
soul. It has collectively signed its own death warrant, person by
person. Each Dutchman or Dutchwoman who lives long enough will be
eventually a candidate for the lethal injection. And it has done so on
one promise, for one reason: for the promise of having, until the day
it runs out, a "high quality of life" - life without stress, without
chronic illness, without fear or trouble or hate. And just as those
nations in which the relationship between parents and children is
still sane will in fact fight for principles and justice and to defend
the country, so, conversely, the intrusion of the violence and hatred
of the outside world must seem, to the Dutch, the ultimate violation
of their pact with the Devil. What, they have signed their own lives
away - they have handed themselves body and soul to the State to
decide how long they will live - and they cannot even be preserved
from the intrusion of Islamic violence and the need to resist
terrorism? No, no, no! Too horrible to contemplate. Drive out the
cause of contention; drive out the person who draws the hatred with
her; and let us hide away from other people's anger, and cradle the
only thing that our Devil's pact has given us - that precious, all too
precious quality of life.

This is what dreamer_marie defriended me rather than have to defend.
Can you blame her? And do you see a pattern there?

quibbler

unread,
May 18, 2007, 3:49:39 PM5/18/07
to
In article <1179513650....@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
soundof...@emailaccount.com says...

> I have been particularly
> lucky in my mother - as beautiful as she is intelligent,

So she must be pretty ugly then.

> as brave as
> she is unselfish

And not very courageous either.

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

pba...@worldonline.nl

unread,
May 18, 2007, 4:39:15 PM5/18/07
to
Nobody in the Netherlands earns a dime for passing the legislation
that allows people who are in insufferable pain, with no hope for
recovering, to chose to end their suffering.

I suppose you wish to prolong their suffering Sound of torture
you. . .
I suppose you do not have the stomach to defend you sadistic point of
view either.

we are a nation of merchants yes,
but for the devil to get our souls he would have to pay in advance.
Thusfar he didn't come forward.

Guess why . .

Peter van Velzen
May 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands

Message has been deleted

Martin

unread,
May 18, 2007, 9:18:21 PM5/18/07
to
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

> http://fpb.livejournal.com/173966.html

You need to change your name to "soundless of mind"

I really hope you *never* have to go through the hurt of seeing someone
you love die from a brain degenerating illness, somone who was smart,
thoughtfull, bright and intellegent.

This is the sickess post you have ever copied to my newsgroup, you have
not a shade of humanity or thought in your body.

This won't matter to you at all, because you never actually read what
you post or read peoples' responses, just hide your head in the fucking
sand and post whenever someone pulls your bloody string. There is no
debate to be had with you, you're just a sick fucker who lives for
posting about other persons hurt and pain.

Piss off out of my group wanker!

Fustigator

unread,
May 19, 2007, 2:51:05 AM5/19/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Sat, 19 May 2007 01:58:44 +0200, in littera
<qcfs43h5ssjln71bt...@4ax.com> in foro
soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On 18 May 2007 11:40:52 -0700, Sound of Trumpet
><soundof...@emailaccount.com> wrote:
>
>>http://fpb.livejournal.com/173966.html
>
>PLOINK

Je ploink prikkelde mijn nieuwsgierigheid en ik ben die tekst gaan
lezen.

Sommige "schoten in de roos " doen inderdaad zoveel pijn,
dat ze niet meer te verdragen zijn, daarom begrijp ik je "ploink".

Als je weet dat, volgens de Rapporten Remmelink (van het NL'se
ministerie van justitie) over de euthanasie, er <jaarlijks> tussen 800
en 1000 mensen door artsen gedood worden zonder enige vorm van
toestemming, noch van henzelf noch van de familie, dan kun je je wel
afvragen als het wel zo'n goed idee was om wettelijk toe te laten om
je zieke ouders "medisch" te laten afmaken.

Maar je pleegt er wel een daad van "goede burgerschap" mee, want zei
de toenmalige minister van volksgezondheid, de arts Els Borst niet
"het is het laatste jaar van het mensenleven dat het duurste aan de
sociale zekerheid kost" ? Dat laatste jaarn inkorten zal wel een
burgerplicht worden, want we moeten toch met z'n allen zoveel mogelijk
besparingen doen, nietwaar?
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 19, 2007, 5:38:09 PM5/19/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Sat, 19 May 2007 14:11:51 +0200, in littera
<oaqt439l4n9d3cu3m...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Sat, 19 May 2007 08:51:05 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:

>Ik heb op de subjectline geploinked.

Had Willem van derDecken kapitein van "De Vliegende Hollander" ook
niet zijn ziel aan de Duivel verkocht?


--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

James Henry Graf

unread,
May 20, 2007, 9:37:18 AM5/20/07
to
<pba...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:1179520755.3...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

I believe the poster was referring to those (relatives of the suffering
person, usually) who anticipate an inheritance. The issues of coercion and
exploitation are valid ones. It is important to assure that the decision to
end one's life is purely independent and autonomous.

By the way, the Netherlands has indeed sold its soul to the devil by
refusing to expose the crimes of the United Satanic States of America.

James Henry Graf

Please Make UN Treaty-Based Committees Do Their Jobs
(my personal appeal)
http://www.angelfire.com/nj/jhgraf/makeun.html


Fustigator

unread,
May 20, 2007, 11:13:06 AM5/20/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Sun, 20 May 2007 01:34:10 +0200, in littera
<n72v43ljvnm8ub6cg...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Sat, 19 May 2007 23:38:09 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Geen ide. dat was mijlen voor mijn tijd. 9 van de 10 keer is de
>schrijver een christelijke bedweter. Het leven is gewoon te kort om je
>daarmee in te laten.

"Wie de lessen van de geschiedenis niet kan trekken is gedomd diens
misstappen weer over te doen", zei Arnold Toynbee
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 21, 2007, 9:34:44 AM5/21/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Mon, 21 May 2007 09:07:49 +0200, in littera
<28h253pe2pojf4nu8...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Sun, 20 May 2007 17:13:06 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Kan wel wezen. Mijn leven is van mij en wat ik daarmee doe zou niet
>door een paar gelovige weirdos bepaald mogen worden.

Hoovaardigheid is de eerste hoofdzonde.
--
Fusti


biermartin

unread,
May 21, 2007, 1:05:39 PM5/21/07
to
Creationist Fustigator schreef:

> >Kan wel wezen. Mijn leven is van mij en wat ik daarmee doe zou niet
> >door een paar gelovige weirdos bepaald mogen worden.

> Hoovaardigheid is de eerste hoofdzonde.

Dat werd ook altijd gezegd door christen-fundamentalistische ouders
die weigerden hun kinderen te laten inenten tegen polio. Nou, ik moet
zeggen dat ik m'n gezin dan toch maar het liefst zondig & gezond houd!

"Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy."--
Revelation 16:6

Martin Bier


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 22, 2007, 3:48:38 AM5/22/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Tue, 22 May 2007 01:41:25 +0200, in littera
<kdb453hcklacchcnr...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 15:34:44 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Ik doe niet in zonde.
Dat is struisvogelpolitiek en verhindert een juistere inschatting te
krijgen over je eigen onvolkmaaktheden.

>Dat is een manier om mensen een schuldgevoel aan
>te praten.

Enkel als je al een minderwaardigheidscomplex hebt.

Een realistische complexloze blik op zichzelf, dat helpt om jezelf te
verbeteren en hoeft geen loze schuldgevoelens te fokken.
>
>V.G.
>Ratatosk,Jola
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 22, 2007, 3:28:47 PM5/22/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Tue, 22 May 2007 10:12:06 +0200, in littera
<689553dp9cfgvakqo...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Tue, 22 May 2007 09:48:38 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Dat is apenkool. Ik zie best wel mijn foutwn zonder dat ik een zonde/
>hoofdzond/ doodszonde op m'n dak krijg. Die lastste krijg je altijd
>door personen van buiten op je dak geschoven.

Zonde = onvolmaaktheid.

Hoofd- en bijzonden zijn details.


>>>Dat is een manier om mensen een schuldgevoel aan
>>>te praten.
>>
>>Enkel als je al een minderwaardigheidscomplex hebt.
>

>Onzin. Al die zonden zijn toch bedoeld om de massa onder controle te
>houden.

Dat beweer jij.
Welke controle? De eigen controle en dat is best: je controleer jezelf
door geen zonden (of zo weinig mogelijk) te plegen. Da's toch beter
dan de nor!

>>Een realistische complexloze blik op zichzelf, dat helpt om jezelf te
>>verbeteren en hoeft geen loze schuldgevoelens te fokken.
>

>En hier heb je dus geen wijsvingertjes voor nodig.


Natuurlijk heb je dat dan niet nodig.Maar niet iedereen blijkt helaas
echt volwassen te (willen) worden.>
>V.G.
>
>Ratatosk, Jola
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

biermartin

unread,
May 23, 2007, 1:40:34 PM5/23/07
to
Creationist Fustigator verlegt grenzen in de semantiek:

> Zonde = onvolmaaktheid.

Ondergetekende en het algemeen spraakgebruik gaan, zo vrees ik, niet
echt met je mee in deze voorgestelde equivalentie.

Ten eerste zijn er volmaaktheden die door jouw en je Vaticaan zeker
als "zondig" zouden worden omschreven. Denk aan het volmaakte
condoom, het volmaakte concubinaat, het volmaakte artikel over
evolutie, de volmaakte masturbatie etc.

Ten tweede zijn er onvolmaaktheden die ook door jouw kerk wellicht
niet als "zondig" worden omschreven. Horrelvoeten, blinden,
bultenaren, doven, spasten etc. zijn allemaal minder dan volmaakt.
Zijn het daarom zondaars? Is elke rolstoelganger ook automatisch een
zondaar? Is een onvolmaakte examenuitslag ook automatisch een zonde?

"Zonde" is een begrip dat door religieuze doctrines wordt gebruikt.
Gedrag dat niet mag krijgt van zo'n religieuze doctrine het etiket
"zonde" opgeplakt. Met je bovenstaande equivalentie suggereer je dat
het zondevrij zijn iets te maken zou hebben met een natuurlijke
volmaaktheid los van de mensenwereld en de godsdienst. Maar het gaat
bij nader inzien niet op. Het begrip "zonde" bestaat niet en betekent
niets zonder een, door mensen gemaakte, religieuze doctrine.

Martin Bier

Fustigator

unread,
May 23, 2007, 5:42:34 PM5/23/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Wed, 23 May 2007 18:11:19 +0200, in littera
<cnp853hf4qc12kftr...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Tue, 22 May 2007 21:28:47 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Dan is 'leven in zonde' ook niet zo'n probleem toch?

Maar wel op tijd biechten, hee!

>>>>>Dat is een manier om mensen een schuldgevoel aan
>>>>>te praten.
>>>>
>>>>Enkel als je al een minderwaardigheidscomplex hebt.
>>>
>>>Onzin. Al die zonden zijn toch bedoeld om de massa onder controle te
>>>houden.
>>
>>Dat beweer jij.
>>Welke controle? De eigen controle en dat is best: je controleer jezelf
>>door geen zonden (of zo weinig mogelijk) te plegen. Da's toch beter
>>dan de nor!
>

>Geloof heeft al eeuwen regels om de groep onder controle te houden.

Dat zeg jij...

>>>>Een realistische complexloze blik op zichzelf, dat helpt om jezelf te
>>>>verbeteren en hoeft geen loze schuldgevoelens te fokken.
>>>
>>>En hier heb je dus geen wijsvingertjes voor nodig.
>>
>>
>>Natuurlijk heb je dat dan niet nodig.Maar niet iedereen blijkt helaas
>>echt volwassen te (willen) worden.>
>

>Dat heeft niemand nodig.

Wil je geen volwassen worden?

>V.G.
>
>Ratatosk,Jola
--
Fusti


biermartin

unread,
May 23, 2007, 6:33:45 PM5/23/07
to
Creationist Fustigator schreef:

> ....je controleer jezelf


> door geen zonden (of zo weinig mogelijk) te plegen. Da's toch beter
> dan de nor!

Hier impliceer je dat "zondig" gedrag hetzelfde zou zijn als
strafrechtelijk vervolgbaar gedrag. Ook die equivalentie gaat niet
op. Er is "zondig" gedrag dat niet strafbaar is en er is strafbaar
gedrag dat niet "zondig" is.

Veel van wat jij en je kerk als "zondig" beschouwen is volkomen
wettig: homohuwelijk, condoomsex, vloeken, abortus, euthanasie,
solosex, etc. Je gaat er volgens de paus voor branden in de hel.
Maar brommen in de nor ga je er niet voor.

En dan zijn er nog zaken als het blokkeren van de ingang van een
abortuskliniek. Alles behalve "zondig" volgens jouw kliek, maar je
kunt er wel voor gearresteerd worden en ervoor de bak indraaien.

Martin Bier

Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 25, 2007, 2:31:24 AM5/25/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Fri, 25 May 2007 01:20:13 +0200, in littera
<797c53140h4jubosn...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Wed, 23 May 2007 23:42:34 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Waarom biechten over iets menselijks? niemand is volmaakt.

Om z'n eigen wil tot verbetering kracht bij te geven.

>>>>>>>Dat is een manier om mensen een schuldgevoel aan
>>>>>>>te praten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Enkel als je al een minderwaardigheidscomplex hebt.
>>>>>
>>>>>Onzin. Al die zonden zijn toch bedoeld om de massa onder controle te
>>>>>houden.
>>>>
>>>>Dat beweer jij.
>>>>Welke controle? De eigen controle en dat is best: je controleer jezelf
>>>>door geen zonden (of zo weinig mogelijk) te plegen. Da's toch beter
>>>>dan de nor!
>>>
>>>Geloof heeft al eeuwen regels om de groep onder controle te houden.
>>
>>Dat zeg jij...
>

>Ik dacht de sosiologen.

Die zij weinig tot niet geloofwaardig.


>
>>>>>>Een realistische complexloze blik op zichzelf, dat helpt om jezelf te
>>>>>>verbeteren en hoeft geen loze schuldgevoelens te fokken.
>>>>>
>>>>>En hier heb je dus geen wijsvingertjes voor nodig.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Natuurlijk heb je dat dan niet nodig.Maar niet iedereen blijkt helaas
>>>>echt volwassen te (willen) worden.>
>>>
>>>Dat heeft niemand nodig.
>>
>>Wil je geen volwassen worden?
>>
>

>O.K.
>Dat heeft geen enkele volwassene nodig.

:-)))

>V.G.
>
>Ratatosk,Jola
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 25, 2007, 6:53:20 PM5/25/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Fri, 25 May 2007 13:41:34 +0200, in littera
<9mid53t0a2c8o0mib...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Fri, 25 May 2007 08:31:24 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Alleen al de gedacht dat een paar 'wees-gegeroetjes' dat zouden doen
>is zooooo lachwekkend.

Tweemaal nee.
Ga zelf te biecht en luister.

>>>>>>>>>Dat is een manier om mensen een schuldgevoel aan
>>>>>>>>>te praten.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Enkel als je al een minderwaardigheidscomplex hebt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Onzin. Al die zonden zijn toch bedoeld om de massa onder controle te
>>>>>>>houden.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dat beweer jij.
>>>>>>Welke controle? De eigen controle en dat is best: je controleer jezelf
>>>>>>door geen zonden (of zo weinig mogelijk) te plegen. Da's toch beter
>>>>>>dan de nor!
>>>>>
>>>>>Geloof heeft al eeuwen regels om de groep onder controle te houden.
>>>>
>>>>Dat zeg jij...
>>>
>>>Ik dacht de sosiologen.
>
>>Die zij weinig tot niet geloofwaardig.
>

>Die staan dan in dit draadje in goed gezelschap... :-)

Hou je van hun gezelschap?
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 26, 2007, 2:56:24 PM5/26/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Sat, 26 May 2007 13:31:02 +0200, in littera
<pe6g53pra1bjcgbmt...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Sat, 26 May 2007 00:53:20 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>


>wrote:
>
>>Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die

>>Fri, 25 May 2007 13:41:34 +0200, in littera
>><9mid53t0a2c8o0mib...@4ax.com> in foro
>>soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>
>

>>>Alleen al de gedacht dat een paar 'wees-gegeroetjes' dat zouden doen
>>>is zooooo lachwekkend.
>>
>>Tweemaal nee.
>>Ga zelf te biecht en luister.
>>

>Mmmm, ik heb niet zo'n goede ervaring mee. schoonzusje is door de
>roverhoofdman van de lokale r.k.- kerk nogal onbeschoft ter zijde
>geschoven bij de begravenis van haar grootvader.

Waarom?

>>>Die staan dan in dit draadje in goed gezelschap... :-)
>>
>>Hou je van hun gezelschap?
>

>Nee, jij. :-))
>

Maar vergeet niet dat sedert Judas er altijd een minderheid aan
bandieten tussen de clerus zit.
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 28, 2007, 1:15:58 PM5/28/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Mon, 28 May 2007 10:44:04 +0200, in littera
<pf5l53dj7pkfurov7...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Sat, 26 May 2007 20:56:24 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>


>wrote:
>
>>Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
>>Sat, 26 May 2007 13:31:02 +0200, in littera
>><pe6g53pra1bjcgbmt...@4ax.com> in foro
>>soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>
>>>On Sat, 26 May 2007 00:53:20 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
>>>>Fri, 25 May 2007 13:41:34 +0200, in littera
>>>><9mid53t0a2c8o0mib...@4ax.com> in foro
>>>>soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>Alleen al de gedacht dat een paar 'wees-gegeroetjes' dat zouden doen
>>>>>is zooooo lachwekkend.
>>>>
>>>>Tweemaal nee.
>>>>Ga zelf te biecht en luister.
>>>>
>>>Mmmm, ik heb niet zo'n goede ervaring mee. schoonzusje is door de
>>>roverhoofdman van de lokale r.k.- kerk nogal onbeschoft ter zijde
>>>geschoven bij de begravenis van haar grootvader.
>>
>>Waarom?
>

>Geen idee waarom het zo nobeschofd moest. ws door de spanningen tussen
>de rk-kerk en de christelijke kerk.
>
Ik zou het nog minder weten .
Wat kon de aanleiding voor een dergelijk wangedrag zijn?
Omdat ze Protestant is?
Niemadn kijkt daar nog tegenaan. Er is daar toch nix abnormaal aan, en
ketters worden allang niet meer verbrand :-)
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted

Fustigator

unread,
May 29, 2007, 4:57:05 AM5/29/07
to
Vitae forma vocatur ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl>, die
Tue, 29 May 2007 01:07:37 +0200, in littera
<l3om53922map827ai...@4ax.com> in foro

soc.culture.netherlands(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:

>On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:15:58 +0200, Fustigator <Fusti...@xs4all.nl>

>Het maakt mij wat huiverig om zomaar iets van een geloof te proberen.
>Neus stoten in geen hoby van me.

Ik ben zelf R-K, en heb daar geen problemen mee, want ondanks bepaalde
atheïsten die je in deze groep soms tegenkomt, ben ik niet intolerant,
geen missionaris en nog minder een fundamentalist. Ik probeer me aan
de regels van de "club" te houden, maar kan me best voorstellen dat er
anderen zijn die ofwel een andere club opzoeken, of helemaal geen club
willen, al zijn er ook clubs van clublozen.
--
Fusti


Message has been deleted
0 new messages