"Europe is in a state of profound crisis,"
Heinrich
counter-proposals, bilaterals and tour de tables, a meeting of EU leaders
broke off in ill-tempered disarray with no agreement on the bloc's future
budget.
"Europe is in a state of profound crisis," said the main conductor of the
talks, the Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker.
Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Spain and Finland rejected the final
compromise package put on the table by the Luxembourg presidency.
According to Mr Juncker, the chief of the current EU presidency, the
differences in the final positions were very small, but in some states there
was not enough political will for an agreement.
French president Jacques Chirac was even more direct saying agreement was
not reached because of the "selfishness" of three countries.
The Luxembourg leader hinted that the idea of a total restructuring of the
EU budget at the final stage of the negotiations was not workable and those
countries suggesting such re-arrangements - as Britain had - knew it right
from the beginning.
"I'm not mocking the discussions we had but I'm sad and shamed by what I've
heard," he remarked, pointing to the fact that most of the new poorest EU
countries were willing to give up some of their own receipts from the budget
to try and forge a deal.
"My enthusiasm for Europe has suffered a serious blow tonight," said Mr
Juncker.
British prime minister Tony Blair defended his position on the country's
annual rebate and denied that he had been isolated at the summit.
"We weren't alone at the table resisting this", he said.
Negotiation marathon
Failure came despite several attempts to save the agreement.
Mr Juncker expressed his pessimism about the prospects of a deal after the
first round of talks, as all the countries merely repeated their positions.
But after the working lunch, the presidency announced it would prepare
another list of amendments and give the debate a last try.
The proposal on the table listed several measures allowing the poorer among
the old member states to keep their part from the structural funds.
Also, countries like Portugal and Spain got offers of extra sums for their
less well-off regions, while Austria and Sweden got extra for their
competitiveness programmes.
On top of that, the Netherlands and Sweden were offered a gross reduction in
their annual GNI contribution of 210 million euros and 105 million euros
respectively, plus a lower portion of VAT to be sent to the EU budget.
On the British rebate, the presidency suggested it should remain in place,
but be frozen. According to commission officials, the figure on the table
for the frozen rebate was an annual 5.5 billion euro per year.
Also, the EU chief suggested the whole system should be reviewed by the
commission in 2010 and take into consideration "the agricultural reforms
agreed in 2013".
Crisis or not?
With this failure will come the inevitable question of what weight it will
lend to the perception that Europe is in crisis.
Before the meeting, various politicians had been making predictions about
the dire consequences failure to agree would mean for the 25-nation bloc.
Politically, the deal was important to send a positive message about the EU’
s capability to bridge differences and national interests and find a
compromise.
Shortly after the two negative votes on the constitution by French and Dutch
citizens, Mr Juncker had insisted his European counterparts were "willing
more than ever" to back down on their particular issues and make a deal on
the budget.
The opponents of the Luxembourg package came to Brussels with a warning that
they would not back down from their stance, and the UK, Sweden and the
Netherlands played down the idea of a crisis due to the budgetary failure.
With no agreement on Friday, the budget question is set to be dropped from
the agenda for the next half year under the UK presidency to be dealt with
at the earliest under Austria’s watch in the first half of next year.
luctor et emergo !!!
jimmyr
compromise package put on the table by the Luxembourg presidency."
Of course because it was no compromise at all, compromise is where both
sides make concessions and that is not wghat was being offered.
"French president Jacques Chirac was even more direct saying agreement
was not reached because of the "selfishness" of three countries.""
When of course in reality it was the selfishness of the French
position.
"The Luxembourg leader hinted that the idea of a total restructuring of
the
EU budget at the final stage of the negotiations was not workable and
those
countries suggesting such re-arrangements - as Britain had - knew it
right
from the beginning."
The old Euro game of blame the British, it was workable, the issue of
the EU financial system was brought up by Chirac, but only the part he
wanted to reform. Totally unreasonable.
"lso, the EU chief suggested the whole system should be reviewed by the
commission in 2010 and take into consideration "the agricultural
reforms
agreed in 2013"."
Well of course the 2002 agreement was made easier by not bringing up
any other part of the EU finances, it changed very little anyway. 2010
is way too late, you want EU financial reform so do we! Let's do the
whole thing now. Luxembourg, France, Germany et al. knew that reform of
the rebate without reforming the entire EU financial system (or even
some other parts of it) would be untenable to the British, but you were
unwilling to budge from your position. We of course were right to
defend our position as it was the most reasonable.
Heinrich
"jimmyr" <jaymes...@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht
news:1119089147.1...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Spain and Finland rejected the final
> compromise package put on the table by the Luxembourg presidency."
>
> Of course because it was no compromise at all, compromise is where both
> sides make concessions and that is not wghat was being offered.
>
> "French president Jacques Chirac was even more direct saying agreement
> was not reached because of the "selfishness" of three countries.""
>
> When of course in reality it was the selfishness of the French
> position.
>
> "The Luxembourg leader hinted that the idea of a total restructuring of
> the
> EU budget at the final stage of the negotiations was not workable and
> those
> countries suggesting such re-arrangements - as Britain had - knew it
> right
> from the beginning."
>
> The old Euro game of blame the British, it was workable, the issue of
> the EU financial system was brought up by Chirac, but only the part he
> wanted to reform. Totally unreasonable.
plse stop sionce when are you british so pro european? you only joined the
eu to profit from it over the last years always special arrangements were
made for britain to keep you aboard, they should have said if you donot want
to join stay out
jimmyr
the
eu to profit from it over the last years always special arrangements
were
made for britain to keep you aboard, they should have said if you donot
want
to join stay out "
Your post makes no sense, basically you can put across your point of
view because I have shown it to be unreasonable. What special
arrangements have been made for us exclusively? Special arrangements
have to made all the time in the EU, it is the nature of the
organisation, such as watering down new legislation because one or two
countries find it unpalatable. lol
We ARE in the EU and we are NOT going anywhere. Get used to it. The EU
has changed adapt or leave yourselves.
Adrian Bailey
news:3hi8crF...@individual.net...
> BRUSSELS - Despite around 15 hours of negotiations, numerous proposals
> counter-proposals, bilaterals and tour de tables, a meeting of EU leaders
> broke off in ill-tempered disarray with no agreement on the bloc's future
> budget.
>
> "Europe is in a state of profound crisis," said the main conductor of the
> talks, the Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker.
Bullshit. If the French were massing their troops at the Channel, that would
be a crisis. In reality, the events of the last few days are just a lot of
political gas.
Adrian
Stephen Glynn
Let us sincerely hope the French don't mass their troops at the Channel.
In the light of the recent report on the Army is suffering from
'overstretch' we'd doubtless have difficulty coping with all the French
POWs when they surrendered.
Steve
Heinrich
"Adrian Bailey" <da...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:rrUse.1$y5...@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Heinrich
the emu, the rebate , entering the euro zone to name a few, why do you
always talk about "britain and europe"? in my opinion you should take it or
leave it and if you donot want to follow the rules feel free to leave.
DVH
Heinrich <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk> wrote in message
The French aren't stupid. They know we have a train with a reinforced spike
on the front - any time the army tries to come through the tunnel, Network
Rail will send it to defeat the enemy forces in a glorious maelstrom of
twisted rails and hot metal. Although the train might be late.
Heinrich
"DVH" <d...@dddvvvvhhhhh.com> schreef in bericht
news:d916ek$lqe$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
o dear o dear i noticed already that the americans donot like the french but
what do you british have against them?
Stephen Glynn
They're French, of course. What other reason do we need? Only someone
who wasn't British could ask such a question.
Steve
John of Aix
> The French aren't stupid. They know we have a train with a
> reinforced spike on the front - any time the army tries to come
> through the tunnel, Network Rail will send it to defeat the enemy
> forces in a glorious maelstrom of twisted rails and hot metal.
> Although the train might be late.
Dead Frogs on the line?
John of Aix
I agree. Both Chirac and Blair were playing to their internal politcal
markets. The budget needs to be set, and, I'd agree, looked at, but
things will tick over in the interim with the current rules, the same
applies to the Constitution. I am happy though that both these things
have brought the European debate to the fore, especially concerning the
UK. I still hear a load of balderdash from that quarter but in the last
few weeks it seems to me that the debate has gone up several levels,
which can only be a good thing, the UK citizens seemed to woefully
uninformed, or rather misinformed, on the EU.
Heinrich
"Stephen Glynn" <stephe...@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht
news:%bWse.23476$m4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
lol but why are there so many french made cars on the british roads ?
Stephen Glynn
We've got nothing against French cars, just Frenchmen. This, it would
seem, is something we have in common with most of our European
neighbours; see
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/17/wfran17.xml
The BBC, however, thinks (probably correctly) that it's a game only we
and the French can play with each other:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4088132.stm
Steve
DVH
John of Aix <j.mu...@libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
news:42b435ae$0$3149$8fcf...@news.wanadoo.fr...
Do you include yourself in this category? I mean, a few weeks ago, you were
claiming everyone in the eurozone was perfectly braced about their lovely
shiney currency. A few opinion polls later, have you revised your view?
Heinrich
would suggest germany in charge so you can go on playing with each other.
DVH
Heinrich <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk> wrote in message
Nothing. The French are a nation of geniuses and if they didn't exist I'd be
busy trying to invent them. But their president... a real deadweight.
Stephen Glynn
Dream on. British foreign policy, for the last 200 years at least, has
been to stop Continental Europe from becoming too united or too
factious, since both these states of affairs are inimical to our best
interests. I'd say we're doing pretty well at it at the moment.
Steve
Heinrich
for the time being you mhave no reasons to complain, i hope your master in
washington d.c. are of the same opinion
jimmyr
British and the French are very proud people, we just have a little
personality clash that's all
jimmyr
Do you really think that monkey cocaine-head imbecile currently in the
White House could be master of anything? ;-)
He has not even mastered the ability to eat a pretzel properly yet!
Heinrich
that kerry guy beat him on that because he has/had a mountain bike of
usdollars8.000,--
Eric Johnson
1119286634.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "jimmyr"
<jaymes...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> He has not even mastered the ability to eat a pretzel properly yet!
>
Ummm. You never coughed on something that went the wrong way down?
h
"Eric Johnson" <er...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:BEDDF75E.86F39%er...@xs4all.nl...
Typical greedy bastard trick is that one.
Unfortunately for everyone his secret service guard knew the himmelman(sp)
manoeuvre
jimmyr
my food before swallowing :-)
Eric Johnson
d99b9t$qqn$1...@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com, "h" <su...@msoft.com>
wrote:
Heimlich maneuver.
You did not answer the question, however.
ej
jimmyr
always talk about "britain and europe"? in my opinion you should take
it or
leave it and if you donot want to follow the rules feel free to leave.
"
I realise this is from a few days ago but I have just read this, I have
never talked about "britain and europe", Britain is a part of of europe
and always has been, even if Britain left the EU that would change that
fact. You might liken it though to such things as refering to the EU as
if was Europe, sure the countries that make the EU are a part of europe
but they are not all of europe, in that sense some Britons (and those
of other island nations for that matter) may talk of <insert island
nation here> and europe as <island nation> and mainland.
jimmyr
nation not to join the Eurozone, I believe that there is a nation that
requires much more special treatment, such as siting an unneccessary
second parliament building etc. or maybe simply ignoring the rules of
say the growth and stability pact (that the two nations I am thinking
insisted on these rules in the first place), you will see that it is
normal and not special treatment in anyway..
jimmyr
few weeks it seems to me that the debate has gone up several levels,
which can only be a good thing, the UK citizens seemed to woefully
uninformed, or rather misinformed, on the EU. "
you always hear a "a load of balderdash" from the anti-EUs of any
nation, some to think of it the pros can be full of "balderdash"
sometimes too
jimmyr
french but
what do you british have against them?"
it's nothing serious, just the usual nationlism coming from citizens
(the French do it to the British too), of two proud countries who have
historically been enemies for hundreds of years.
p.s. please don't bring out the nationalist in me, it is irrational and
I don't like it....lol
jimmyr
coughed maybe, nearly choked to death, never...
Heinrich
country over the centuries !! this guy blew the hell out of you at the time:
http://www.marine.nl/schepen/eskader/fregatten/lcf/deruyter/naam-embleem/
and donot forget this one:
http://www.deruyter.org/CHATHAM_Dutch_in_the_Medway.html
have a nice day lol
Heinrich
i was very surprised to see blair in brussels and to hear him speak. any
idead what has happened to him or what is happening in britain? because it
seems the whole nation was surprised by the way he acted and really was
asking that question. any idea what he is up too?
Heinrich
correct. see what is happening now portugal gets another official warning
and those two ? correct: nothing.
Don Ocean
Sounds kind of like a Pearl Harbor attack!
>
>
jimmyr
Anglo-Dutch War.... Atleast we got New Amsterdam (New York) from the
second much better than Guiana in view :-) Or the Amboyna Massacre when
you guys were not so easy going :-). Besides better not to talk about
imperial days of Europe, after all we had the largest empire the world
had even seen :-)
Heinrich
good afternoon, i sincerely hope you enjoyed your cup of tea !!
allow me to say that we were fully compensated by monty python's flying
circus,
fawlty towers and inspectore morse !!!(the best i have ever seen, on belgian
tv there is now a rerun of it and although i have seen them all for at least
3 times i will watch it again, i love it and last but not least keeping up
appearances with a lady called bucket but says it is to be pronounced as
Bouquet,