Europe divided by two opposing philosophies
Heinrich
EU, veteran politician and current head of the EU Jean-Claude Juncker has
concluded that Europe is divided into two opposing camps - a free trade camp
and a political Europe camp.
Sounding an extremely pessimistic note after a meeting of EU leaders that
left the constitution's future uncertain and no agreement on money, Mr
Juncker said that some member states want a free trade Europe and nothing
else while others want a "politically integrated Europe".
He added that only political integration would allow Europe to overcome the
challenges facing it.
Speaking of the "two philosophies" Mr Juncker said "I knew the time would
come when all of this would come out".
His words came as Britain held out on its annual rebate, the Netherlands
pushed to pay 1.5bn euro less into the coffers and Sweden criticised the
budget as not being modern enough.
But the opposing philosophies have been simmering for the last months -
particularly in the run up to the French referendum on the constitution.
A large part of the reason that the French voted No was fears of a
free-market Anglo-Saxon model of Europe, which they felt would cost jobs and
social security.
French and UK social models
President Chirac did little to quell these fears and directly after the
referendum pointedly said that the French social model was not the
Anglo-Saxon model.
British prime minister Tony Blair, on the other hand, was then heard to
stress how important it was to reform Europe and make it more pro-business
and less regulated.
By the time the summit came around, both sides were spoiling for a fight
with the British rebate and French farm subsidies taking the foreground but
an ideological divide providing the background.
Their positions were captured in their statements to press after the summit
ended. Mr Chirac defended the Common Agriculture Policy as being "modern"
and "dynamic" while Mr Blair asked "are we going to become the most
competitive economy in the world"?
The British prime minister summed up by saying that he had nothing personal
against Mr Chirac it was just that "these are different visions".
Keeping up appearances
Mr Juncker, who was plainly angry after the meeting, said that EU would be
damaged by its failure to reach an agreement on the budget.
He said the "people need to realise that we're being watch [from the
outside]".
The Luxembourg leader also said that he did not think the failure to reach
an agreement would have an "immediate effect" but that it would be a
"slower" and "almost unnoticeable" effect.
Those on the outside, however, will notice it quickly.
President Chirac also indicated he believed EU had been damaged saying a
"weakened vision" of Europe had emerged.
But those who blocked the final agreement on the budget - like the UK and
Spain - downplayed any talk of crisis in the 25-nation bloc
Heinrich
"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:35:48 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >BRUSSELS - Following a bitter and failed summit on the future funding of
the
> >EU, veteran politician and current head of the EU Jean-Claude Juncker has
> >concluded that Europe is divided into two opposing camps - a free trade
camp
> >and a political Europe camp.
>
>
> I believe in fact here is a third vision for Europe - the one held by
> many European citizens which differs from the two political visions.
correct most of the people are fed up with those arristocrats in brussels,
look at that portugese fishmonger, he is actually thinking he is king louis
14 himself.
>
> It surprises me not one jot that the political junkies can only see
> political visions; what the citizens want is irrelevant to them and
> getting two *no* votes doesn't seem to have woken them up.
>
> >Sounding an extremely pessimistic note after a meeting of EU leaders that
> >left the constitution's future uncertain and no agreement on money, Mr
> >Juncker said that some member states want a free trade Europe and nothing
> >else while others want a "politically integrated Europe".
> >
> >He added that only political integration would allow Europe to overcome
the
> >challenges facing it.
>
> Translation: only my vision will work.
> Scroeder also directly criticised Britain in his press conference.
>
> >Keeping up appearances
> >Mr Juncker, who was plainly angry after the meeting, said that EU would
be
> >damaged by its failure to reach an agreement on the budget.
> >
> >He said the "people need to realise that we're being watch [from the
> >outside]".
>
> WTF does this mean?
he means the european parliament which is keeping a (closed)eye on them,
but that parliament has not influence at all
>
> >The Luxembourg leader also said that he did not think the failure to
reach
> >an agreement would have an "immediate effect" but that it would be a
> >"slower" and "almost unnoticeable" effect.
> >
> >Those on the outside, however, will notice it quickly.
> >
> >President Chirac also indicated he believed EU had been damaged saying a
> >"weakened vision" of Europe had emerged.
> >
> >But those who blocked the final agreement on the budget - like the UK and
> >Spain - downplayed any talk of crisis in the 25-nation bloc
>
> --
> "I have a horrible feeling that we are sinking into a police state"
> George Churchill-Coleman, former head Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist
squad.
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:42:21 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
>
>
> >> many European citizens which differs from the two political visions.
> >
> >correct most of the people are fed up with those arristocrats in
brussels,
> >look at that portugese fishmonger, he is actually thinking he is king
louis
> >14 himself.
>
the portugese are experts on sardines it is their main export product.
>
>
>
> >> >He said the "people need to realise that we're being watch [from the
> >> >outside]".
> >>
> >> WTF does this mean?
> >
> >he means the european parliament which is keeping a (closed)eye on them,
> >but that parliament has not influence at all
>
> Sure, the Euro Parliament is like a castrated dog.
> I thought it was the Americans or the markets keeping an eye...
i regret to say it as an european but some americans are talking more sense
about the eu than some of my fellow europeans ( the higher echelons i mean)
DVH
hummingbird <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:c758b1lm46bo8sb6h...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:42:21 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
>
>
> >> many European citizens which differs from the two political visions.
> >
> >correct most of the people are fed up with those arristocrats in
brussels,
> >look at that portugese fishmonger, he is actually thinking he is king
louis
> >14 himself.
>
And when that runs out, he's got a freezer full of red herring.
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:52:16 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
> >> >news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
>
> >
> >the portugese are experts on sardines it is their main export product.
>
glad you told me, but we catch them ourselves lol
>
>
> >> >he means the european parliament which is keeping a (closed)eye on
them,
> >> >but that parliament has not influence at all
> >>
> >> Sure, the Euro Parliament is like a castrated dog.
> >> I thought it was the Americans or the markets keeping an eye...
> >
> >i regret to say it as an european but some americans are talking more
sense
> >about the eu than some of my fellow europeans ( the higher echelons i
mean)
>
> and otherwise influence it through the back door.
i sometimes think if it would not be better if the berlin wall was never
destroyed, i=even the former ddr citizens are longing back to the good old
days and the wessies are fed up with paying an extra tax on their anual
income for the costs of reunification and now the poles are buying real
estate in the former ddr much to the dislike of the ossies.
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:12:28 +0000 (UTC), "DVH" <d...@dddvvvvhhhhh.com>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >
> >hummingbird <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> wrote in message
> >news:c758b1lm46bo8sb6h...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:42:21 +0200, "Heinrich"
> >> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> >> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
> >>
> >> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
> >> >news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> >> I believe in fact here is a third vision for Europe - the one held
by
> >> >> many European citizens which differs from the two political visions.
> >> >
> >> >correct most of the people are fed up with those arristocrats in
> >brussels,
> >> >look at that portugese fishmonger, he is actually thinking he is king
> >louis
> >> >14 himself.
> >>
> >> lol. A Portuguese fishmonger? He must be selling bacalhau ;-)
> >
> >And when that runs out, he's got a freezer full of red herring.
>
that is their speciality
http://portugal-tchat.com/Achat-en-ligne-produits-portugais/administrer/images/221104_202459_PEEL.JPG
Chris X
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:52:16 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
>>> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
>>> >news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
>
>>
>>the portugese are experts on sardines it is their main export product.
>
>
>
>>> >them,
>>> >but that parliament has not influence at all
>>>
>>> Sure, the Euro Parliament is like a castrated dog.
>>> I thought it was the Americans or the markets keeping an eye...
>>
>>i regret to say it as an european but some americans are talking more
>>sense
>>about the eu than some of my fellow europeans ( the higher echelons i
>>mean)
>
> and otherwise influence it through the back door.
Very true.
DVH
Chris X <Chr...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:O8ydncVrmaS...@giganews.com...
How embarrassing to agree with the BNP on anything.
Chris X
"DVH" <d...@dddvvvvhhhhh.com> wrote in message
news:d91j92$6d$2...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Unfortunately, no one gives a toss what a washed-up writer of neo-con
Zionazi blogs like you thinks.
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:08:51 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
>
> >destroyed, i=even the former ddr citizens are longing back to the good
old
> >days and the wessies are fed up with paying an extra tax on their anual
> >income for the costs of reunification and now the poles are buying real
> >estate in the former ddr much to the dislike of the ossies.
>
> me in some detail about German feelings about reunification - and also
> how to spot an ossie in Berlin!!!
>
> It gets worse: soon after the Wall came down, my friend was visiting
> a major customer executive of his (Deutche Bank IIRC) who said
> something like...
>
> "OK, we can start lowering wages in the West now. We don't
> have to show the East that life is better here anymore."
>
> *That* is exactly what's been happening in the past 10 years across
> Western Europe. I concluded from that, that high wages and generous
> pension systems in the West were all part of the Western propaganda
> to win the Cold War and defeat socialism.
correct and the germans are very spoiled with their social benefits. we have
adapted them because it could no longer be afforded without going bankrupt.
germany has still to go through this stage but it is a very hot issue and
asking for political suicide
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:11:32 +0200, "Heinrich"
> Brasilians eat a lot of bacalhau but not these wretched things ;-)`
correct me if i am wrong but these small fish can only be found off the
coast of portugal as far as i can remember. if you fancy instant diarrhoea
buy one , try to open it without losing a finger and eat the contents.
but do note you are responsible for your own actions !!!
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:48:35 +0000 (UTC), "DVH" <d...@dddvvvvhhhhh.com>
> on - if only said people didn't suffer from cognitive dissonance.
let me tell you this. for 15 year there was a right wing party who said the
country was already overcrowded and the entry of more asylumseekers should
be forbidden. the situation here at that time was pamper them because they
have experienced a bad time and more of that talk.,they party was considered
a bunch of racist and completely ignored by the elite in the hague. a few
year later pim fortuyn appeared on the fron of dutch politics never
experienced such a fresh wind going through dutch politics of cours he was
called a racist etc but he was verbally very good so he beat the hell out of
his opponents but i can say you this, it is very pitty he was murdered by
some environmental idiot but since then we can at least say in public that
this country is full without being arrested or mollested for having a
different opinion as most of the political parties here who are spending
their time on a 5th runway for schiphol airport or asylum seekers
DVH
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:50:27 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
>
> >> I suspect there are issues that many people agree with the BNP
> >> on - if only said people didn't suffer from cognitive dissonance.
>
>
> >let me tell you this. for 15 year there was a right wing party who said
the
> >country was already overcrowded and the entry of more asylumseekers
should
> >be forbidden. the situation here at that time was pamper them because
they
> >have experienced a bad time and more of that talk.,they party was
considered
> >a bunch of racist and completely ignored by the elite in the hague. a few
> >year later pim fortuyn appeared on the fron of dutch politics never
> >experienced such a fresh wind going through dutch politics of cours he
was
> >called a racist etc but he was verbally very good so he beat the hell out
of
> >his opponents but i can say you this, it is very pitty he was murdered by
> >some environmental idiot but since then we can at least say in public
that
> >this country is full without being arrested or mollested for having a
> >different opinion as most of the political parties here who are spending
> >their time on a 5th runway for schiphol airport or asylum seekers
>
> issue that was hitherto politically incorrect to mention. And so it is
> in Britain with the BNP I believe. There are a number of things that
> the BNP will say openly which nobody else has the guts to speak about.
>
> Immigration is an example. The collusion between our political parties
> is another. The lies, spin and deception in Britain is so systematic
> that if somebody doesn't speak up we will all drift towards complete
> subservience to the almighty state and become surfs.
Feh. Some people are open to *any* temptation.
RaZe
Heinrich wrote:
>
> BRUSSELS - Following a bitter and failed summit on the future funding of the
> EU, veteran politician and current head of the EU Jean-Claude Juncker has
> concluded that Europe is divided into two opposing camps - a free trade camp
> and a political Europe camp.
I see no reason why we cannot have both operating in parallel
Let those cuntries that want political integration form themselves in a
federal state (or whatever)
and simultaneously create a European Free trade area (we could call it
EEC) allow both the Federal Europe and any Sovereign cuntries to join
it, what is the problem ?
RaZe
DVH
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 21:09:16 +0000 (UTC), "DVH" <d...@dddvvvvhhhhh.com>
You'll have to work that out for yourself.
Heinrich
"RaZe" <qwe...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:42B4A5D0...@hotmail.com...
we have or at least had countries with good economics and, the majority,
countries with poor economics, so let us say `fast`countries and
`slow`countries it has been discussed that the `fast`countries may continue
their seed in trying to make a united europe and that the `slower` countres
might follow at a later date
but since both germany, france,italy are facing serious financial troubles
and the small countries are very much afraid of being ignored completely in
a more expanding europe you better forget about it,
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:50:27 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
>
> >> I suspect there are issues that many people agree with the BNP
> >> on - if only said people didn't suffer from cognitive dissonance.
>
>
> >let me tell you this. for 15 year there was a right wing party who said
the
> >country was already overcrowded and the entry of more asylumseekers
should
> >be forbidden. the situation here at that time was pamper them because
they
> >have experienced a bad time and more of that talk.,they party was
considered
> >a bunch of racist and completely ignored by the elite in the hague. a few
> >year later pim fortuyn appeared on the fron of dutch politics never
> >experienced such a fresh wind going through dutch politics of cours he
was
> >called a racist etc but he was verbally very good so he beat the hell out
of
> >his opponents but i can say you this, it is very pitty he was murdered by
> >some environmental idiot but since then we can at least say in public
that
> >this country is full without being arrested or mollested for having a
> >different opinion as most of the political parties here who are spending
> >their time on a 5th runway for schiphol airport or asylum seekers
>
> issue that was hitherto politically incorrect to mention. And so it is
> in Britain with the BNP I believe. There are a number of things that
> the BNP will say openly which nobody else has the guts to speak about.
>
> Immigration is an example. The collusion between our political parties
> is another. The lies, spin and deception in Britain is so systematic
> that if somebody doesn't speak up we will all drift towards complete
> subservience to the almighty state and become surfs.
the same here but since fortuyn it is about to chance, at least some
political parties have adopted fortuyn´s ideas so we have made some
progress.
last week they expelled 4 radical imams, this would have been unthinkalbe 10
years ago. but by what i read about the situation in britain i think it is
about time draconic measures are taken to stop the flood
Heinrich
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:32:28 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
> >> >> >> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
> >> >> >> >news:nus7b1lg68roo6ttl...@4ax.com...
>
> >>
> >> >that is their speciality
> >>
>
>>http://portugal-tchat.com/Achat-en-ligne-produits-portugais/administrer/im
a
> >ges/221104_202459_PEEL.JPG
> >>
> >> LOL. It's odd how sardinhas have never really caught on in Brasil.
> >> Brasilians eat a lot of bacalhau but not these wretched things ;-)`
> >
> > correct me if i am wrong but these small fish can only be found off the
> >coast of portugal as far as i can remember.
>
> Atlantic which Brasil faces, maybe down south towards Santa Catarina.
>
> >if you fancy instant diarrhoea
> >buy one , try to open it without losing a finger and eat the contents.
> >but do note you are responsible for your own actions !!!
>
o dear the can is full of olive oil !!!!
Heinrich
> On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:05:40 +0200, "Heinrich"
> <Hein...@Eurocratsnet.tk>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
> >
> >"hummingbird" <VXWXCU...@spammotel.com> schreef in bericht
>
> >> The moral of that story is that Pym opened up public debate about an
> >> issue that was hitherto politically incorrect to mention. And so it is
> >> in Britain with the BNP I believe. There are a number of things that
> >> the BNP will say openly which nobody else has the guts to speak about.
> >>
> >> Immigration is an example. The collusion between our political parties
> >> is another. The lies, spin and deception in Britain is so systematic
> >> that if somebody doesn't speak up we will all drift towards complete
> >> subservience to the almighty state and become surfs.
> >
> >the same here but since fortuyn it is about to chance, at least some
> >political parties have adopted fortuyn´s ideas so we have made some
> >progress.
> >last week they expelled 4 radical imams, this would have been unthinkalbe
10
> >years ago. but by what i read about the situation in britain i think it
is
> >about time draconic measures are taken to stop the flood
>
> very different.
>
> Much of the risk in Britain from Islamic 'terrorists' is false and
> used deliberately by the Blair political elite to justify their police
> state new laws. Terror alerts always come just before an election
> or when some very controversial law is going through Parliament.
sounds very familiar
>
> Sure, general immigration is an issue which has to be dealt with
> but this is not much related to terror and says much more about
> the incompetence of Blair's government ministers than anything else.
a question. what really amazes me is that Blair does not look at all as a
labour leader. look at his predecessors quite different kind of people
compaired to blair. you would think he would be a member of the conservative
party. any idea why he is a memeber of labour?
Heinrich
> On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:07:07 +0200, "Heinrich"
in portugal it is : no sex before marriage so i think the same applies for
sardines.
jimmyr
as a
labour leader. look at his predecessors quite different kind of people
compaired to blair. you would think he would be a member of the
conservative
party. any idea why he is a memeber of labour? "
Labour had been stuck in the 70s throughout much of 80s, things began
to change in the party during the mid-90s. He has implemented many
policies that would never have been impletmented by the tories, I think
he is much more moderate politician, not 'left' enough for some of the
extreme labour supports, while at the same time some of his policies
have been too 'left' for the conservatives. I think that labour in the
early 90s started it transition towards a more centre-left, or even
more centre that the Liberal democrats who have moved markedly to the
left on some issues. Tony Blair is a product of that change.
Heinrich
"jimmyr" <jaymes...@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht
news:1119188451....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
so it is here with the social democrats. it has something to do with the
chance from a working class era into a computer era, i mean most of the jobs
the working class people did have gone and are replaced by computers and
robots. in rotterdam in the harbour all the containers are being moved by
cranes and cars who run fully automatic, only when they are put aboard a
ship manpower is used it is an strange view to watch it.
>