The West's Cowardice: Mohamed’s Best Friend?
Jon°
newspaper The Independent. I have only edited it by leaving some
paragraphs out, for the sake of brevity. The wording in the shown
paragraphs is exactly as printed in the Independent.
Read the whole article in the link shown below. This is pretty
startling stuff for it to be printed in a liberal bible, which is what
the Independent, along with the The Guardian, is. Does it mean that
the liberal establishment have seen the light and have finally come to
the conclusion that Islam is a very dangerous religion? A religion
that should not be over protected and allowed to flourish,
unchallanged, in western society to the detriment of western thought
and freedom?
-------oOo--------
We need to stop being such cowards about Islam
Thursday, 14 August 2008
This is a column condemning cowardice – including my own. It begins
with the story of a novel you cannot read. The Jewel of Medina was
written by a journalist called Sherry Jones. It recounts the life of
Aisha, a girl who was married off at the age of six to a 50-year-old
man called Mohamed ibn Abdallah. On her wedding day, Aisha was playing
on a see-saw outside her home. Inside, she was being betrothed. The
first she knew of it was when she was banned from playing out in the
street with the other children. When she was nine, she was taken to
live with her husband, now 53. He had sex with her. When she was 14,
she was accused of adultery with a man closer to her own age. Not long
after, Mohamed decreed that his wives must cover their faces and
bodies, even though no other women in Arabia did.
You cannot read this story today – except in the Koran and the Hadith.
The man Mohamed ibn Abdallah became known to Muslims as "the Prophet
Mohamed", so our ability to explore this story is stunted. The Jewel
of Medina was bought by Random House and primed to be a best-seller –
before a University of Texas teacher saw proofs and declared it "a
national security issue". Random House had visions of a re-run of the
Rushdie or the Danish cartoons affairs. Sherry Jones's publisher has
pulped the book. It's gone.
We need to acknowledge the double-standard – and that it will cost
Muslims in the end. Insulating a religion from criticism – surrounding
it with an electric fence called "respect" – keeps it stunted at its
most infantile and fundamentalist stage. The smart, questioning and
instinctively moral Muslims – the majority – learn to be silent, or
are shunned (at best). What would Christianity be like today if George
Eliot, Mark Twain and Bertrand Russell had all been pulped? Take the
most revolting rural Alabama church, and metastasise it.
But I live in the Muslim majority East End of London, and this isn't
Weimar Germany. Muslims are secure enough to deal with some tough
questions. It is condescending to treat Muslims like excitable
children who cannot cope with the probing, mocking treatment we hand
out to Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism. It is perfectly consistent
to protect Muslims from bigotry while challenging the bigotries and
absurdities within their holy texts.
There is now a pincer movement trying to silence critical discussion
of Islam. To one side, fanatics threaten to kill you; to the other,
critics call you "Islamophobic". But consistent atheism is not racism.
On the contrary: it treats all people as mature adults who can cope
with rational questions. When we pulp books out of fear of
fundamentalism, we are decapitating the most precious freedom we have.
Ördög
planet> has jumped on that same, old, tired and bloody boring
bandwagon:
> I show below an edited article appearing today in the British
> newspaper The Independent. I have only edited it by leaving some
> paragraphs out, for the sake of brevity. The wording in the shown
> paragraphs is exactly as printed in the Independent.
Hmmm. Edited? LOL!
So let me edit away all the bullshit and concentrate on your core
message.
> ..... a liberal bible...
> ......the liberal establishment...
> ......Islam is a very dangerous religion?
> ......A religion that should not be over protected...
>.......allowed to flourish unchallenged...
>...... in western society...
>...... to the detriment of western thought and freedom?
So what are you actually saying?
What is your favorite plan for dealing with that "nonAryan", "non-
Anglo-Celt", subhuman apelike trash scum?
Forced baptism, removal of children and shooting the men?
Mass deportations, waterboarding, nuking their homelands just for the
fun of it?
> We need to stop being such cowards about Islam
We need to stop being such cowards about openly examining the sad
state of our infallible capitalistic and fully plutocratic
"democracy".
As long as we tolerate injustice and inequality among ourselves we can
not chastise others for doing the same in their own culture.
> This is a column condemning cowardice – including my own.
LOL
> It begins
> with the story of a novel you cannot read
You mean yet an other version of the same old story???? BORING!
. The Jewel of Medina was
> written by a journalist called Sherry Jones.
Really! ROTFLOL
> It recounts the life of
> Aisha, a girl who was married off at the age of six to a 50-year-old
> man called Mohamed ibn Abdallah. On her wedding day, Aisha was playing
> on a see-saw outside her home. Inside, she was being betrothed. The
> first she knew of it was when she was banned from playing out in the
> street with the other children. When she was nine, she was taken to
> live with her husband, now 53. He had sex with her. When she was 14,
> she was accused of adultery with a man closer to her own age. Not long
> after, Mohamed decreed that his wives must cover their faces and
> bodies, even though no other women in Arabia did.
Shocking! Sadly there is one slight by somewhat important fact is
missing here:
What year are we talking about?
Do you have a fucking clue at what age were girls marrying during the
times of the old Roman Empire?
Do you have a clue why incest was quite acceptable during the times of
the Old Testament?
No? Of course not, it does not help to focus your xenophobia.
> You cannot read this story today – except in the Koran and the Hadith.
> The man Mohamed ibn Abdallah became known to Muslims as "the Prophet
> Mohamed", so our ability to explore this story is stunted.
Strange! I never had trouble learning about the dark chapters of human
history:
Old Testament, New Testament, The rise and fall of the Roman Empire,
Crusades, Inquisition,Pogroms, Thirty year war, WW1, WW2, Hitler,
Stalin, Pinochet, Ronald Reagan, Bush, neocons, Zionists, Iraq War 1,
Iraq War2, etc......
So why should I be suddenly so shocked about an other very similar
chapter in the history books?
> We need to acknowledge the double-standard
Are you really willing to go that far?
That would be quite brave adventure for a conservative whinger!
> and that it will cost Muslims in the end.
Yep. If it was up to the neocons those low life Muslims, all all 1.3 B
of them would be nuked sooner than later.
That would teach them the advantages of our democracy!
-------
Sorry I could not stomach the rest of that pathetic crap.
SNIP!
Ördög (The friendly Hungarian Devil in service of aus.politics and
Usenet)
Either the neocons go or civilisation does!
mosher...@hotmail.com
Gee Dog that really hit a nerve didn't it.
You know you and Michi Lauden have a lot in common. You both want war
between Islam and the Rest.
Why do I say this? Well by you coming out and calling any criticism of
islam as an affront to humanity while ignoring the rants of extremist
from one side of the debate, actually fuel the hate fomenting that you
and other faux centrists like David Moss constantly claim to want to
extinguish. You just look like shills for the extremists.
So by typing out you foaming barely coherent rant in response to a
fairly reasoned article just serves to shut down debate that can only
lead to one thing, UNDERSTANDING.
I think you actually like the idea of conflict between cultures it
seems to be all your interested in posting about.
simple.lan...@gmail.com
> Gee Dog that really hit a nerve didn't it.
Ördög is a Muslim. His favorite pastime is hacking Google's post
ratings.
Ördög
> On Aug 14, 8:03 pm, Ördög <tz81qm...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> > SNIP!
> Gee Dog that really hit a nerve didn't it.
Did it? You tell me!
> You know you and Michi Lauden have a lot in common. You both want war
> between Islam and the Rest.
You know, Mosh we live in strange times where the desperate political
rightwing extremist fringe really
goes so far as to implement doublethink in order to convince
themselves
and the rest of the public that white is black and up is down and in
is out.
When I've first read Orwell's 1984 I was really convinced that such
darkest view on the future of man kind was nothing more than some very
pessimistic fiction.
Now I am really not so sure about the validity of that assessment of
mine.
Reading such posts as yours speak volumes.
Do I wan't war? Based on everything I've ever posted on Usenet? Really
now Mosh! You are already perfect at newspeak!
> Why do I say this?
Why?
Because you are a right retarded idiot, I am sorry to say. You have
succeeded in believing in your political master's propaganda bullshit.
> Well by you coming out and calling any criticism of
> islam as an affront to humanity while ignoring the rants of extremist
> from one side of the debate, actually fuel the hate fomenting that you
> and other faux centrists like David Moss constantly claim to want to
> extinguish. You just look like shills for the extremists.
So:
1
You have not understood a single word of what I was stating in the
post above.
Never mind. I rephrase and do it very slowly so that even you might
understand the gist of it:
a) If someone sits in a glass house it is not a good idea to throw
bricks around unless one is dressed in a suit and a mask made of
Kevlar
b) One can't fault others for one's own inability to handle
significant changes in one's own life
c) One should not bother making criticisms if one is unwilling to
offer at the same time some sane solutions to that perceived problem.
i.e. nuking Muslims is no such solution
2
If you think that David, I or anyone else here ignore " the rants of
extremist
from one side of the debate" you are badly mistaken.
Your basic problem with such assertion is that for each of the very
few Muslim extremist posters in this NG
there are dozens and dozens of Islamophobic right retarded haters and
whingers who troll and spam Usenet endlessly.
I simply have no real need nor time left to deal with Kanga's posts.
In end effect from where I stand your lot are all the same, Muslims or
not...you worship extremist conservative ideals which results in hate,
bigotry and total irrationality.
> So by typing out you foaming barely coherent rant in response to a
> fairly reasoned article just serves to shut down debate that can only
> lead to one thing, UNDERSTANDING.
Missed again. The intent of the poster above was hard to miss.
There are many valid and strong criticisms one could level against
Islam in a very correct manner.
Playing out a trump card about "pedophilia" (a purely late twentieth
century concept) is a trick that can only confuse a full idiot.
That poster wants NO understanding. He obviously desires conflict with
Muslims and he is seeking followers towards achieving that end.
> I think you actually like the idea of conflict between cultures it
> seems to be all your interested in posting about.
I am interested in attacking the political right. Islamic, Xtian or
otherwise.
This here is not at all about the cultures, for me this is all about
the conflict of social classes.
Racists, rednecks, right-wingers and religious fundies not only hate
outsiders, they just as much hate the political left. Hence the
conflict.
Ördög
> Ördög is a Muslim.
Really?
So asserts a Polish, ex-Solidarnosc, now turned Zionist extremist
field propagandist
who trolls to date in 110 newsgroups with 1452 cut and paste spams,
all posted from his Warsaw sewers residence within just one month?
I must say you do have a slight credibility problem.
My my! Have you no imagination? Hence that pathetic, well debunked and
toothless attack?
Ördög
(The friendly Hungarian Devil in service of aus.politics and Usenet)
Either the neocons go or civilisation does!
FUP you
Jon°
"So what are you actually saying"?
---oOo----
Well in fact you have said it all for me in your unreasonable reply to
a reasoned question....…”shut up, you say”…….“We followers of Islam
cannot live with being questioned, if you do question us we shall
either behead you or scream Islamaphobia“.
Why not change the name of your creed to “Islamic-Murder-
Incorporated”. At least you will then be expressing your true
feelings, which are kill the infidel. You will then, at least , be
honest and admit your deep loathing for western society, a loathing
generated by old fashioned green jealousy. A jealousy, deeply
nurtured, in your sub-conscious inner beliefs that western thought
surpasses anything that Islam has brought forth. You are just like
thick school bullies who try to push kids cleverer then them around
in the playground, because they have no other reasoned means of
retaliation.
“ Lets kill and mutilate those who believe in the freedom of the
human spirit” you chant. Why do you do this? Because you have no real
reply to those who expose the evilness that lives within your
extremist dogma……..The only answers you have to those who would
question your right to subjugate woman, terrorise those of different
religions and generally behave like savages is. Kill, kill kill.
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> Ördög
said nothing of any use to anybody, as usual.
Ördög
planet> is desperately grabs for the the first best strawman he can
hurl into my direction:
> Ördög has upset yet an other rightwhinger propagandist:
> > Jon° <oh_no_Not_an_other_bullshit_artist........@live.on-an-other-
> > planet> has jumped on that same, old, tired and bloody boring
> > bandwagon:
>
> > > I show below an edited article appearing today in the British
> > > newspaper The Independent. I have only edited it by leaving some
> > > paragraphs out,
> > Hmmm. Edited? LOL!
> > So let me edit away all the bullshit and concentrate on your core
> > message.
> > > ..... a liberal bible...
> > > ......the liberal establishment...
> > > ......Islam is a very dangerous religion?
> > > ......A religion that should not be over protected...
> > >.......allowed to flourish unchallenged...
> > >...... in western society...
> > >...... to the detriment of western thought and freedom?
> > So what are you actually saying?
> > What is your favorite plan for dealing with that "nonAryan", "non-
> > Anglo-Celt", subhuman apelike trash scum?
> > Forced baptism, removal of children and shooting the men?
> > Mass deportations, waterboarding, nuking their homelands just for the
> > fun of it?
> > We need to stop being such cowards about openly examining the sad
> > state of our infallible capitalistic and fully plutocratic
> > "democracy".
> > As long as we tolerate injustice and inequality among ourselves we can
> > not chastise others for doing the same in their own culture.
> Sadly there is one slight by somewhat important fact is
> > missing here:
> > What year are we talking about?
> > Do you have a fucking clue at what age were girls marrying during the
> > times of the old Roman Empire?
> > Do you have a clue why incest was quite acceptable during the times of
> > the Old Testament?
> > No? Of course not, it does not help to focus your xenophobia.
> > Strange! I never had trouble learning about the dark chapters of human
> > history:
> > Old Testament, New Testament, The rise and fall of the Roman Empire,
> > Crusades, Inquisition,Pogroms, Thirty year war, WW1, WW2, Hitler,
> > Stalin, Pinochet, Ronald Reagan, Bush, neocons, Zionists, Iraq War 1,
> > Iraq War2, etc......
> > So why should I be suddenly so shocked about an other very similar
> > chapter in the history books?
> > > and that it will cost Muslims in the end.
> > Yep. If it was up to the neocons those low life Muslims, all 1.3 B
> > of them would be nuked sooner than later.
> > That would teach them the advantages of our democracy!
> > -------
> Well in fact you have said it all for me in your unreasonable reply to
> a reasoned question
Hate to disrupt your outrage before it really gets into a full swing
but I consider my reply to you very very reasonable in view of your
actual intent.
In fact, I was exercising extreme restraint in formulating it.
> ....…”shut up, you say”…….
Now where have I said such thing? You seem to read things which ain't
there!
Although I could have jumped on you on account of your trolling in
aus.politics.
> “We followers of Islam
> cannot live with being questioned, if you do question us we shall
> either behead you or scream Islamaphobia“.
ROTFLOL.
"We followers of Islam"???? Whom are you talking abut? Are you
Muslim?
So who is we???
Whoever these "WE" are they certainly do not include me since I
worship exclusively with great fervor the Invisible Pink Unicorn (also
known as IPU).
How do I know that it is pink if it is invisible?
That is easy, my cat told me the other day in a holy dream! That is
surely proof enough, don't you think so?
> Why not change the name of your creed to “Islamic-Murder-
> Incorporated”.
My creed, fuckwit?
How would you know what my "creed" is? In fact, you have no bloody
clue if I actually had a creed of any sort.
Hmmm. Your strawman lacks any legs to travel far...
> At least you will then be expressing your true
> feelings, which are kill the infidel.
That "projecting" of your own dark desires onto your debating opponent
must be some sort of rightard obsession.
> You will then, at least , be honest ...
Oh, but I am honest with you, really really honest. You give me the
shits.
Read moron the whole thread again to get the picture:
> and admit your deep loathing for western society, a loathing
> generated by old fashioned green jealousy.
"green jealousy" must be an emotion you can really relate to.
In spite of your badly limping strawman assertion I do not hate
"western" society.
But I do have issues with those minority rightwing extremists who seem
to claim birth right to hijack it
for the purposes of fulfilling their own private ambitions,
superstitions and phobias while shitting on the rest of society.
> A jealousy, deeply
> nurtured, in your sub-conscious inner beliefs that western thought
> surpasses anything that Islam has brought forth.
Western though, eastern though ....what the heck! The next you'll tell
me that it was an Aryan who invented gunpowder!
As to the religions..... pot...kettle...black.
Specially the big three "Religions of the Book".
There is nothing to be much proud of in any of them; just lots of
cupboards and lots of skeletons!
> You are just like
> thick school bullies who try to push kids cleverer then them around
> in the playground, because they have no other reasoned means of
> retaliation.
"cleverer then them"
Hugh! Here comes to surface that supremacist mindset......LOL
Bullying on the other hand must come naturally to you. If only you
could be just a little more clever than your posts indicate.
> “ Lets kill and mutilate those who believe in the freedom of the
> human spirit” you chant.
Now you have hurt my feelings . Atheists never ever
chant......although they do swear when annoyed.
> Why do you do this?
Why do I swear? Even atheist must let off some steam from time to
time.
> Because you have no real
> reply to those who expose the evilness that lives within your
> extremist dogma……..
Evil?
There is no such an animal, that is just a purely imaginary religious
conservative concept.
And that fact is no dogma of mine!
As to having a fitting reply...I certainly do have one as you are
unlucky enough to find out.
Read the bloody thread above.....if you can actually read, not just
write verbal crap.
> The only answers you have to those who would
> question your right to subjugate woman,
My right to subjugate women?
I'd wish! As it turns out each time I try to get uppity I get very
quickly put to my place in no uncertain terms by my wife and daughter.
Man, you seem to have swallowed that crap about me put out for general
consumption for gullible morons like yourself by your fellow hate
mates, Simple and Doughnut.
> Kill, kill kill.
Exactly. That is the common theme typical of right wing extremists
like Bin Laden and Shrub both, and all of their followers.
And you are certainly sitting on that very same bandwagon.
Jon°
>
> - Show quoted text -
Michi's Bane
nazis_unite.......@deadspam.com> said:
.....It's time for an other moronic "one-liner"
Ördög
(The friendly Hungarian Devil in service of aus.politics and Usenet)
Either the neocons go or civilisation does!
PS:
Fup you
ßDoüg±Ç
news:20080815153...@linux-k6os.site...
> Ördög
*********************
Exactly and then he uses the exceedingly mature ploy of changing follow-ups
to prevent any replies to his dogmatic diatribes in defense of islamonazism.
Kope
Be kind to fellow human being and animal, in return God will reward
us
glorious life in paradise.
How to achieves a happy life in this world and in the hereafter?
What is the purpose of life ?
What does God want from us?
What is the key to Heaven?
What kind of people will enter Heaven {Paradise / Kingdom of God }?
People who believes in God And do good to other human being.
People who will inter heaven those are whom the other human are safe,
safe from his/her tongue and hand.
People who will inter heaven those are respect and honors all human
beings irrespective of their religion,color, race, gender, language,
status, property, birth, profession/job and so on.
People who stand out firmly for justice even as against yourselves or
your parents or your kin and whether it be against rich or poor.
People who have patience, forbearance, generosity, bravery, justice,
truthfulness, modesty, fulfilling the promise, satisfaction with
having only a little .
People who makes peace among the people.
People who say with their mouth what is in their heart.
People who do not shout. speak politely keeping their voice low.
People who honor old people is showing respect to God.
People who suppressed his anger, when he had in his power to show it,
God will give him great reward.
People who feed the hungry and visit the sick, and free the innocent.
People who are patient in adversity and forgive wrongs.
People who are nearest to God, who pardoneth, when he had in his
power
him who would have injured him.
People who persistent in good actions.
People who speak only good words, otherwise remain silent.
People who feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the
sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the wrongs of the injured.
People who kind to God's creatures, God is kind to him; therefore be
kind to man on earth, whether good or bad; and being kind to the bad,
is to withold him from badness, thus in heaven you will be treated
kindly.
People who admonish his wives with kindness.
People who enjoin one another to do what is good and forbid one
another to do what is evil.
People who love the poor and bring them near you God will bring you
near Him on the Day of Resurrection.
People who has the most complete faith is he/she who has the best
manners.
People who show forgiveness, enjoin what is good and turn away from
the foolish.
People who pardon and forgive other. do you not love that God should
forgive you?
People who choose best words to speak and say in the best possible
way.
People who always speak the truth. shun words that are deceitful and
ostentatious.
People who nice to people who work under your care.
People who willing to compromise.
People who dress modestly.
People who avoid watching dirty movies/ magazine.
People who avoid substance abuse such as drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.
People who earn an honest living are the beloved of God.
People who believe that a white has no superiority over a black nor a
black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
You are not better than people (of other races) unless you excel them
in piety.
The best people are those who are most useful to others.
Whoever does not express his gratitude to people will never be
grateful to God
Power consists not in being able to strike another,
but in being able to control oneself when anger arises.
Honor your children and thus improve their manners.
God is merciful to those who show mercy to others.
Every son of Adam makes mistakes and the best of them are those who
repent.
Verily there are heavenly rewards for any act of kindness to a live
animal
Every good act is charity. A man's true wealth hereafter is the good
that he does in this world to his fellows.
the truthfulness lead to righteousness and righteousness lead to
paradise.
God enjoins you to treat women well, for they are your mothers,
daughters, aunts.
A sincere repenter of faults is like him who hath committed none.
How will God Almighty Judge us?
This life is a test for each individual for the life after death. and
the dead will be resurrected for judgment by God.
On the day of judgment God will judge each person on an individual
basis not our religious affiliation ie Islam, Christainty, Judaism,
Hinduism etc . God Almighty knows what's in the heart of man/woman
and
will judge us based on our deeds and the choices we make in life.
Remember, one day you will appear before God (The Creator) and you
will answer for your deeds. It is your own conduct which will lead
you
to reward or punishment, as if you had been destined therefor.
God says in the Holy Quran 67:2 “It is He who created death and life
for you that He may try you, as to which of you is best in works....
The Holy Quran, 21:47 "On the Day of Judgment, We shall set up scales
of justice so that no one will be dealt with unjustly in any way;
even
if someone has an act as small as a grain of a mustard seed, We will
bring it to account, and sufficient are We to settle the accounts."
The Holy Quran 16:111"The day will come when every soul will serve as
its own advocate, and every soul will be paid fully for whatever it
had done, without the least injustice."
The Holy Quran 4:124."As for those who lead a righteous life, male or
female, while believing, they enter Paradise; without the slightest
injustice."
The Holy Quran 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who
follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,-
any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,
shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear,
nor
shall they grieve.
===============
i am a radical muslim please read my blog, read how islam will win
the clash of civilization.