Israel Plans New Atrocity
Ivan Gowch
the pale of human decency.
Should it commit this further atrocity, the world
must take action to show these barbarians that
this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.
Boycott Israeli products, bar its citizens, cut off
aid, isolate it completely.
If Israelis want to continue living in a barricaded
criminal state, the world should co-operate and
ensure that they do.
===
Sunday, May 16, 2004
Israel Threatens to Destroy Hundreds of Gaza Homes
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's top general threatened Sunday to
destroy hundreds of Palestinian refugee homes after the Supreme Court
cleared the way for demolitions in a flashpoint Israeli-held corridor
on the Gaza-Egypt border.
Secretary of State Colin Powell said the United States opposed the
destruction of homes in Rafah, adjacent to the "Philadelphi" buffer
zone.
The United Nations says Israel has made more than 12,000 people
homeless in Rafah since the start of a Palestinian uprising when peace
talks failed in September 2000, and further demolitions would be in
"grave breach" of international law.
"Hundreds of houses have been marked for destruction," a senior
official quoted Israeli army chief Moshe Yaalon as telling the cabinet
at its weekly meeting, without giving any timeframe for their
demolition.
Israel's Channel One television reported Israeli troops were massing
again along the buffer zone Sunday following the Supreme Court
decision. The army had no comment.
The court, in refusing to block the demolitions, appeared to set broad
terms for bulldozing homes, saying the army could destroy houses for
operational purposes or to protect soldiers.
The demolitions are likely to make thousands of Palestinians homeless.
Dozens have already started to evacuate their homes in the camp after
learning of the decision.
"I don't know what to take. I will start with clothes or the
refrigerator or the television," said Abed al-Majid Abu Shamala, 52,
preparing to flee a four-story dwelling.
Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie accused the Israeli court
ruling of permitting "ethnic cleansing crimes and collective
punishment of innocent civilians." In a statement, he urged the
international community to intervene.
Nabil Abu Rdainah, an adviser to President Yasser Arafat, said the
Palestinians would seek a special U.N. Security Council session to
condemn the demolitions.
At least 29 Palestinians, including militants and civilians, and 13
Israel soldiers were killed in fierce fighting in the Gaza Strip in
the past week.
Seven soldiers died in or near the Rafah buffer area, which Israeli
officials said would be widened to make it safer to patrol and less
accessible to militants who smuggle weapons in by tunnels from Egypt.
Yaalon told the cabinet that houses picked for demolition were
believed to be concealing tunnels or to have been used by gunmen
attacking soldiers.
MORE THAN A THOUSAND HOMELESS
U.N. relief officials estimated that Israeli armored bulldozers
leveled more than 80 buildings in Rafah in recent days, leaving about
1,100 Palestinians homeless. The army said it demolished structures
that provided cover for armed men.
"We are extremely alarmed that even more demolitions are planned,"
said UNRWA chief Peter Hansen in a statement.
At a news conference in Jordan, Powell said Washington recognized an
Israeli right to self-defense but that "the wholesale bulldozing of
houses...is something that we must express our opposition to."
Powell also rebuked Arafat for urging Palestinians, in a speech
Saturday, to "terrorise the enemy."
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told his cabinet that Israel would not
permit militants to attain weapons capabilities "which would threaten
the heart of the nation even after our disengagement from Gaza."
Sharon also said Israel was in contact with Egypt to amend their peace
treaty to allow Egypt to deploy more forces in Sinai and help secure
its border with Gaza, an Israeli official said.
Some 120,000 Israelis rallied in Tel Aviv Saturday in support of
Sharon's stalled Gaza plan to evacuate all Jewish settlements in Gaza
and four in the West Bank, which senior officials said he would
resubmit with minor alterations.
===
--
The virtue most often rewarded is patience.
-Ivan Gowch
m II
> Israel is increasingly putting itself outside
> the pale of human decency.
>
> Should it commit this further atrocity, the world
> must take action to show these barbarians that
> this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.
>
> Boycott Israeli products, bar its citizens, cut off
> aid, isolate it completely.
>
> If Israelis want to continue living in a barricaded
> criminal state, the world should co-operate and
> ensure that they do.
> ===
>
> Sunday, May 16, 2004
> Israel Threatens to Destroy Hundreds of Gaza Homes
But they are so good at it. It may be the ONLY thing they are good at.
If it weren't for American money, they would have folded up the tents
and gone home years ago. zionist scum.
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm
mike
Michaelo
I've been talking with one of them.
I think they afraid to be killed.
Absolutely directly meaning killed.
And they have a ground for such fear.
By the way, do not idealize arabs.
As in France was no word for pervertion befor ~~15,
in Dania, it seams, still word "porno" not used,
In countries neibours of Israel word "corruption" do not used.
In Ukraine (where I inhabit) we say corruption sometimes,
but corruption here is turned into the cult.
It's just for instasnce.
> http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm
>
> mike
JGB
> Israel is increasingly putting itself outside
>the pale of human decency.<
Living next to terrorists for 80 years doesn't help promote decency.
>Should it commit this further atrocity, the world
>must take action to show these barbarians that
>this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.<
Jews are the barbarians? is this some kind of a joke?
>Boycott Israeli products, bar its citizens, cut off
>aid, isolate it completely.<
Do your worst.
> If Israelis want to continue living in a barricaded
> criminal state, the world should co-operate and
> ensure that they do.<
"The world?" The world cares what happens to Jews? Where was the world
in 1948, after the Holocaust, when the NEW, UN-authorized State of Israel
was attacked by 5 ARab armies? But they sent troops to South Korea a
year later when it was attacked by the SOviet-sponsered North. Now the
world doesn't do SQUAT to help Israel, but issues condemnation after
condemnation for ISraeli attempts to fight terror and defend themselves.
Why doesn't the UN condemn Russia for fighting Chechen terrorists or
the US for fighting Al Qaeda terrorists? Why are UN resolutions only
levelled against Israel? I'll give you two main reasons: (1) 57 Muslim
nations in the UN versus one JEwish nation, and (2) Israel has no oil
or petrodollars to spread around into the Swiss accounts of their
supporters. The Arabs should consider themselves lucky that the ISraelis
aren't doing to them what the Russians did to Chechnya.
Ivan Gowch
==>Ivan Gowch <go...@SPAMTHEENOThotmail.com> wrote in message news:<v7jfa01jeq6sn48gt...@4ax.com>...
==>> Israel is increasingly putting itself outside
==>>the pale of human decency.
==>Living next to terrorists for 80 years doesn't help promote decency.
Perhaps that's why there is so little decency
among the Palestinians.
That was glib. I apologize.
But then, your assertion that Palestinians, by
definition, are "terrorists" is absurd and a
perfect specimen of the incredibly dishonest
propaganda that Israel has been foisting off
on the world for decades.
You know as well as I do that Palestinians are
no more all terrorists than all Jews are usurers
or that they eat Christian babies.
IG:
==>>Should it commit this further atrocity, the world
==>>must take action to show these barbarians that
==>>this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.
==>Jews are the barbarians? is this some kind of a joke?
Where did I say that JEWS are barbarians?
I'm not talking about Jews as an ethnic or
religious group (as you, as a loyal propagandist
for Israel, are implying), I'm talking about the
government of the State of Israel that has,
indeed, proven itself to be composed of
barbarians, led by one rat-crazy, homicidal
psychopath, Ariel Sharon.
IG:
==>>Boycott Israeli products, bar its citizens, cut off
==>>aid, isolate it completely.
==>Do your worst.
If the world wakes up and finally compels Israel
to obey international law and the standards of
human decency, it will be doing its BEST, not
its worst.
IG:
==>> If Israelis want to continue living in a barricaded
==>> criminal state, the world should co-operate and
==>> ensure that they do.
==>"The world?" The world cares what happens to Jews?
Again, I'm not talking about Jews.
It's noted that every time someone dares to
criticize the policies of Israel as a state, you
propagandists rush to try to equate that *state*
with the Jewish people as a whole, raising, as
you always do, the false spectre of anti-Semitism
to try to discredit the criticism. Fuck that.
There are millions of Jews -- both in Israel and
in the world at large -- who are shamed and
sickened by the atrocities the Israeli regime
commits daily in their name. I expect you to
counter that any Jew who isn't delighted that
Israeli troops regularly kill children, old people
and non-combatants and bulldoze the homes of
their relatives is a "self-hating Jew," but that is,
of course, bullshit.
The terribly irony is that one of the abiding virtues
of Jews is that they have always been among the
most ardent promoters of civil rights and humane
treatment of people. The fascist, criminal cabal
that rules Israel today has nothing in common with
their fellow Jews, either in Israel or in the
Diaspora.
==> Where was the world
==>in 1948, after the Holocaust, when the NEW, UN-authorized State of Israel
==>was attacked by 5 ARab armies?
Irrelevant. The Israelis competently defended their
new country -- which they had a perfect right to
do. You must be insane if you think the lack of
active support Israelis received during their 1948
war of survival in the slightest way excuses the
human rights abuses and out-and-out atrocities
their security forces commit 56 years later, each
and every day.
[...]
==>Now the
==>world doesn't do SQUAT to help Israel
Give me a break. Israel's existence and survival
is guaranteed by none other than the world's greatest
military and economic power, the United Snakes
(today also ruled by fascists). As if that isn't
enough, Israel has a nuclear arsenal which no one
doubts it would use against any enemy that actually
seemed poised to strike a damaging military blow
against the country.
Those two factors make the protestations of apologists
for war crimes like you that Israel must be brutal
because it is fighting for its survival the basest of
lies. And transparent as hell.
==>Why doesn't the UN condemn Russia for fighting Chechen terrorists
Why should it? Russia isn't razing the homes
of innocent people in a campaign of collective
punishment. Israel suffers condemnation not
when its troops kill armed terrorists, but when
it attacks unarmed people, when it kills children
and old folks, when it destroys Palestinian
farmers' fields, when it imprisons people
without trial or apparent justification, when it
assassinates people (even in friendly countries)
on merely the suspicion that they may have links
to terrorists, when it conducts -- and its courts
condone -- torture of prisoners, when it seizes land
it has no right to seize.
But I'm wearying of repeating this litany
once again. Honest people will know I'm telling
the truth (better yet, they can do a little research
and discover it for themselves).
For three decades now, Israel's
leaders have proven themselves every bit as
murderous, brutal and pitiless as any of those
who in the past brutalized Jews.
History will record, and perhaps marvel, that
Israel -- born as a crucially needed haven for a
traumatized people who barely escaped extinction
-- morphed into an oppressor state that tragically
squandered the moral justification for its existence.
==>The Arabs should consider themselves lucky that the ISraelis
==>aren't doing to them what the Russians did to Chechnya.
Yes -- in the same way a rapist's victim should
consider herself lucky that her attacker left her
alive.
I guess that sentiment is what passes for compassion
and decency among Israel's supporters today.
Very sad.
Shalom.
--
All ambitions are lawful except those
which climb upward on the miseries or
cruelties of mankind.
-Joseph Conrad
JGB
> On 22 May 2004 19:36:13 -0700, jga...@netzero.com (JGB) wrote:
>
> ==>Ivan Gowch <go...@SPAMTHEENOThotmail.com> wrote in message news:<v7jfa01jeq6sn48gt...@4ax.com>...
> ==>> Israel is increasingly putting itself outside
> ==>>the pale of human decency.
>
> ==>Living next to terrorists for 80 years doesn't help promote decency.
>
> Perhaps that's why there is so little decency
> > But then, your assertion that Palestinians, by
> definition, are "terrorists" is absurd and a
> perfect specimen of the incredibly dishonest
> propaganda that Israel has been foisting off
> on the world for decades.<
The DISHONESTY is not telling the world that the League of Nations
declared the Jewish homeland to be in Palestine, and that the JEws had
the
RIGHT, under international law as defined the new League of Nations,
to]
resettle the land and recreate their homeland. But we don't hear much
about this. Nor do we hear much about the violent Arab resistance by
terrorists like Haj Amin El Husseini who started this 84 year old
illegal
war against Jewish national rights.
> You know as well as I do that Palestinians are
> no more all terrorists than all Jews are usurers
> or that they eat Christian babies.<
All people have the capacity for doing good and evil. That is a tenet
of Jewish theology.
> ==>Jews are the barbarians? is this some kind of a joke?
> Where did I say that JEWS are barbarians?
> I'm not talking about Jews as an ethnic or
> religious group<
You forgot to mention NATIONAL group, or nation-in-exile whose
national rights
in Palestine were recognized by the League of Nations in 1920.
> (as you, as a loyal propagandist
> for Israel, are implying), I'm talking about the
> government of the State of Israel that has,
> indeed, proven itself to be composed of
> barbarians, led by one rat-crazy, homicidal
> psychopath, Ariel Sharon.<
Ariel Sharon was defending his father's farm from Arab marauders since
he was 14 years old, knife-in-hand. I'm sorry that he's not the good,
wimpy
Jewish ghetto boy that the world had come to expect all Jews to be.
> IG:
> ==>>Boycott Israeli products, bar its citizens, cut off
> ==>>aid, isolate it completely.
>
> ==>Do your worst.
>
> If the world wakes up and finally compels Israel
> to obey international law and the standards of
> human decency, it will be doing its BEST, not
> its worst.<
If the world had any interest in international law, it would be
admonishing
the Arabs for violating Jewish national rights.
IG:
> ==>> If Israelis want to continue living in a barricaded
> ==>> criminal state, the world should co-operate and
> ==>> ensure that they do.
>
> ==>"The world?" The world cares what happens to Jews?
>
> Again, I'm not talking about Jews.
> It's noted that every time someone dares to
> criticize the policies of Israel as a state, you
> propagandists rush to try to equate that *state*
> with the Jewish people as a whole, raising, as
> you always do, the false spectre of anti-Semitism
> to try to discredit the criticism. Fuck that.<
> There are millions of Jews -- both in Israel and
> in the world at large -- who are shamed and
> sickened by the atrocities the Israeli regime
> commits daily in their name. I expect you to
> counter that any Jew who isn't delighted that
> Israeli troops regularly kill children, old people
> and non-combatants and bulldoze the homes of
> their relatives is a "self-hating Jew," but that is,
> of course, bullshit.<
I'm sorry that the JEwish state hasn't done some of the things that
the US,
England and other states did during WWII, and bomb innocent civilians
from the air to win a war. As with the survival of Britain in WWII, or
for that matter of America facing Japan and Germany, in an existential
war terrible things have to be done to win. Israel has not won because
it
has done what America did to win WWII. That is why Israel constantly
faces
the existential threat nearly six decades after its independence. In
Korea
and Vietnam, and even now in Iraq, the US did not face an existential
threat. It could always leave and go back home across the ocean.
Israel has
to live there, come what may. It cannot afford to lose.
>
> The terribly irony is that one of the abiding virtues
> of Jews is that they have always been among the
> most ardent promoters of civil rights and humane
> treatment of people. The fascist, criminal cabal
> that rules Israel today has nothing in common with
> their fellow Jews, either in Israel or in the
> Diaspora.<
Being a despised minority, and a nation-in-exile, Jews always
empathized
with others who faced injustices. Having periodically to emigrate from
country to country, it empathized with immigrants. It empathized with
enslaved people. Jews empathized with powerless people as Jews didn't
even
get the right to sit in Parliament till 1860 in liberal England. The
State
of Israel granted most rights to its Arab citizens immediately: the
right
to vote, the right to have representaves in the Knesset, the right to
own
private land, and Arabic is even an official language in Israel. But
Arabs
cannot stomache Jews being the majority, and their being a minority in
the
singular jewish homeland. In the 1830s they were used to beating up
Jews,
so how could they now be peaceable citizens of a predominantly Jewish
country?
Your mischaracterization does not accord with the realities of life
INSIDE
ISrael.
> ==> Where was the world
> ==>in 1948, after the Holocaust, when the NEW, UN-authorized State of Israel
> ==>was attacked by 5 ARab armies?
>
> Irrelevant. The Israelis competently defended their
> new country --<
Yeah, luckily, at a cost of 6,000 lives out of 600,000, or one percent
of
the population. That would be the equivalent of 2.8 million lives for
present
day America. But, the JEws did it all by themselves, and that is a
good thing
for a post-holocaust society to have managed. US Secy of State
Marshall had
warned the ISraelis that if they declared their state, they would "be
on their
own" and not to expect the Americans or anyone to come and save them.
The
Jews narrowly decided to take their chances, as no one had really come
in time
to save them during WWII either. So I think ISrael can be proud of not
having
needed any foreign troops to come to their rescue as we did for SOuth
Korea
or South Vietnam. They probably would have made a mess of it anyway,
and ISrael
would have been worse off, if it had even survived with "foreign"
help.
which they had a perfect right to do. <
Thanks. Hearing that Jews have a right to defend themselves is
refreshing.
> You must be insane if you think the lack of
active support Israelis received during their 1948
> war of survival in the slightest way excuses the
> human rights abuses and out-and-out atrocities
> their security forces commit 56 years later, each
> and every day.<
I'm only sorry that ARab propaganda has the upper hand, but then, when
you're
outnumbered by ARabs 50 to 1, it's to be expected.
>
> [...]
>
> ==>Now the
> ==>world doesn't do SQUAT to help Israel
>
> Give me a break. Israel's existence and survival
> is guaranteed by none other than the world's greatest
> military and economic power, the United Snakes<
SNAKES, huh? Well, that pretty much sums up where the Israel and
Jew-bashers
in general are "coming from." Well, the United Snakes let me into
America
in 1948 from the refugee camps in Bavaria three years after the end of
WWII,
and I will always be greatful to the United Snakes for THAT! I only
wish the
twenty two Arabs states had been even half-way as decent to the
refugees from
Palestine, because perhaps if they had let them come and have
citizenship
and a new place to rebuild their lives, maybe they wouldn't have
become so
horrifically hostile and terroristic! But they let them rot and stew
on UN
welfare checks in camps, with nothing to do but make zillions of
babies and
brainwash them into massive Jew-hatred and general hatred towards the
world,
particular America for their plight. But that's THEIR fault, not ours.
The ARabs
have a habit of not accepting much blame for their own condition. It's
so much
easier to blame it all on the JEws, America, etc.
> (today also ruled by fascists). As if that isn't
> enough, Israel has a nuclear arsenal which no one
> doubts it would use against any enemy that actually
> seemed poised to strike a damaging military blow
> against the country.<
Right. Jews helped America acquire such a capability against Japan and
Germany,
so why shouldn't they have helped themselves, especially when
Eisenhower
wouldn't give ISrael a treaty of alliance as we did for Germany and
Japan
during the 1950s!? But the rise in international terrorism and
proliferation
made it difficult for Israel to know who to strike if it were hit. And
so the
US had to come into the ME to put an end to both! Because if not,
eventually
Israel would have to hit everyone in the region if it were hit and
didn't know the actual source! It sure as hell wasn't going to wait
and die alone! It
might have been forced to hit Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and
who knows]
who else? Bush and SHaron decided that time had come to lay down the
law in
the ME before things REALLY got out of hand!
> Those two factors make the protestations of apologists
> for war crimes like you that Israel must be brutal
> because it is fighting for its survival the basest of
> lies. And transparent as hell.
>
> ==>Why doesn't the UN condemn Russia for fighting Chechen terrorists
>
> Why should it? Russia isn't razing the homes
> of innocent people in a campaign of collective
> punishment.<
You don't sound like you're a Chechen. Or is there a deficit of
pictures
coming out of that region on a daily basis? Doesn't CNN have embedded
reporters
in Chechnya with the RUssian troops?
> Israel suffers condemnation not
> when its troops kill armed terrorists, but when
> it attacks unarmed people, when it kills children
> and old folks, when it destroys Palestinian
> farmers' fields, when it imprisons people
> without trial or apparent justification, when it
> assassinates people (even in friendly countries)
> on merely the suspicion that they may have links
> to terrorists, when it conducts -- and its courts
> condone -- torture of prisoners, when it seizes land
> it has no right to seize.<
Exept that most of what you just said is propaganda and bullshit and
emotional
reaction to photo-sensitive emotionalism.
> But I'm wearying of repeating this litany
> once again. Honest people will know I'm telling
> the truth (better yet, they can do a little research
> and discover it for themselves).
> For three decades now, Israel's
> leaders have proven themselves every bit as
> murderous, brutal and pitiless as any of those
> who in the past brutalized Jews.<
Unfortunately, not! Had it been so, the war would have been over long
ago.
Decades ago, in fact.
> History will record, and perhaps marvel, that
> Israel -- born as a crucially needed haven for a
> traumatized people who barely escaped extinction
> -- morphed into an oppressor state that tragically
> squandered the moral justification for its existence.<
History will record that the Arabs with 99.8% of a territory roughly
the
size of the United States wouldn't let their battered cousins have a
little
place of their own without relentless, bitter, violent opposition. And
that
in the process, the peaceful Jews had to become spartanized and fight
back,
and sometimes do some bad things just to survive on a tiny strip of
desert
that they had revitalized and brought back to life in the midst of
darkness
and death.
> ==>The Arabs should consider themselves lucky that the ISraelis
> ==>aren't doing to them what the Russians did to Chechnya.
>
> Yes -- in the same way a rapist's victim should
> consider herself lucky that her attacker left her
> alive.
> I guess that sentiment is what passes for compassion
> and decency among Israel's supporters today.>
> Very sad.<
No, Israelis should all let their heads be cut off, like those of
Pearl or
Berg. Two good-hearted Jewish schmucks! Sorry. We don't want
platitudes or
crocadile tears. We want to be left in peace on a small piece of our
land.
Deborah Sharavi
>the pale of human decency.
>
>Should it commit this further atrocity, the world
>must take action to show these barbarians that
>this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.
So, threatening to demolish the houses of suspected terrorists is
intolerable.
>Israel Threatens to Destroy Hundreds of Gaza Homes
>JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's top general threatened Sunday to
>destroy hundreds of Palestinian refugee homes after the Supreme Court
>cleared the way for demolitions in a flashpoint Israeli-held corridor
>on the Gaza-Egypt border.
But expelling half a million people - like Kuwait did to their Pallies
- or massacring 20,000 people - like Jordan did to the Pallies - is
apparently acceptable.
Well, OK, I vote against Israel demolishing Pallie houses.
What Israel should do is massacre 20,000 Pallies in a week, like
Jordan did, then expel half a million, like Kuwait. That, apparently,
is acceptable behavior for the international community.
Deborah
JGB
> Ivan Gowch <go...@SPAMTHEENOThotmail.com> wrote in message news:<v7jfa01jeq6sn48gt...@4ax.com>...
> What Israel should do is massacre 20,000 Pallies in a week, like
> Jordan did, then expel half a million, like Kuwait. That, apparently,
> is acceptable behavior for the international community.<
Oh, let's not make the Jordanians and Kuwaits sound so bad! After all, they
are the moderate Arabs in the region. I believe King Hussein's Arab Legion
"only" killed 15,000 in about a week, and Kuwait "only" expelled about
300,000.
>
> Deborah
charles liu
I have no doubt you are correnct - but could you cite some sources
anyway? For my education of cours. Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Deborah
IlanAvraham
No Canadian scum. If it wasnt for American money Israel would have
expanded to three times its size thanks to what would have been
unconditional support from the Soviet Union or China to kick Arab ass
without limit and put an end to the Saudi ass kissing as they took the
Oil Fields and had the engineers from what could have been their ally,
Cuba to man the pumps. And all these Mullahs would be hanging from
the nearest tree.
American money? Big fuckin deal, big fuckin cancer to any nation
that takes it. I wish they would tilt towards China, with the money
coming into Hong Kong it will be easy to give Israel what they need to
fuck over the Arabs and send Beijing all the free oil they need and
invest in more medical and scientific technology then any of those
sand lice could ever or would ever do to contribute to general welfare
of people.
The only tent anyone is gonna fold is the one set up on a rainy day
after they toss your carcass into a lime pit.
JGB
Unfortunately, all the estimates are only guesstimates, because the
Jordanian
Army does not give out such information, and BBC reporters are usually
not
around when the Arabs commit large scale massacres. However, the PLFP
claims 3,000 were killed.
http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/orgdet.cfm?orgid=31
Others claim 4,000. Since web searches are not fruitful, I will look
up
the information in the library, and report back here. I was in Israel
in
1970 as a tourist when "Black September" happened and Palestinian
guerrillas
were crossing the Jordan river to try get to ISRAELI control to get
away from the Jordanian army. Perhaps the initial claims of 15-20,000
were just exaggerations but I will seek to track down the truth.
Similarly I will track down the number of Palestinians who were
expelled from
Kuwait after the Gulf War in 1991. The number I heard was 300,000, but
again
I will have to track down a definitive source. Alas, while Arab
sources are
good at inflating ISraeli "atrocities" they are not so good at
documenting
their own. So tracking down the truth is a bit of a chore.
Deborah Sharavi
>>Jordan did, then expel half a million, like Kuwait. That,
apparently,
>>is acceptable behavior for the international community.<
all, they
>are the moderate Arabs in the region.
Right, right, and the Saudis have been our "partners in peace" for 62
years.
>I believe King Hussein's Arab Legion "only" killed 15,000 in about a
week, and >Kuwait "only" expelled about 300,000.
The Jordanians killed closer to 20,000 Pallies in less than a week,
not including the 2,500 or so fedayun driven into Lebanon, and the
Kuwaitis expelled well over 300,000 if you include Pallies who were
abroad at the time and were prohibited reentry; but it doesn't include
the 6,000 or so who were jailed and tortured for supporting Saddam.
Funny how little things like that never make much of a splash in the
"international community". But let Israel kill 52 combatants in a
firefight, and it's UN Investigation time. Life's rough when you don't
have any oil to grease your way.
Deborah
charles liu
Any luck tracking down the truth? I looked but I can't find anything
that verify your claims.
JGB
I have not gotten to the main Brooklyn and/or Manhattan libraries where they
would have the news accounts of the time to track down where these figures
originally came from. But in all massacres, whether they bee in Rwanda
or Sabra/Shatilla, or the Holocaust, or Tiananman square, wherever,
figures are always floated and they must emanate from somewhere. I can't
spend my life on it, but I will do my utmost to find the source of the
15,000 figure of rumored number of Palestinians killed by the Jordanian
Legion in 1970-72, starting with Black September. ONe thing I am certain
of, is that the Arabs will never be of any help in tracking down any truth
regarding their atrocities. They are always bandying about figures from
Deir Yassin and Sabra and Shatilla and are vociferous in quoting each other.
charles liu
Hate to bug you on this. I don't expect you to spend your life for the
sake of my education, but if you can't back up your claim, maybe it's
time to reevaluate the source of your conviction.
Just wondering...
JGB
> > would have the news accounts of the time to track down where these figures
> > originally came from.
>
> Hate to bug you on this. I don't expect you to spend your life for the
> sake of my education, but if you can't back up your claim, maybe it's
> time to reevaluate the source of your conviction.
>
> Just wondering...<
Admittedly I've encountered a surprising paucity of information
regarding
Black September or the "Jordanian Civil War" of 1970, and NO
information
regarding numbers of casualties. However, in one book "Palestinian
Leadership
on the West Bank" by Moshe Maoz he has some references (p.101) to
"severe blows
of 'Black September' further reduced its (PLO) impact amongst West
Bank mayors"
and a few other passing reference. But no, regrettably I have not
found any
specific details regarding the events or casualties in the Jordanian
Civil war in "black september" of 1970. The numbers I heard, 15-20,000
casualties are rumors or hearsay. I cannot confirm those numbers but I
can
confirm that something very bad happened to the PLO in Jordan in
September
1970 when PLO guerrillas were shown even crossing into Israeli
occupied
territory to get away from the Jordanian Arab Legion troops. I wish I
had
more specific information. I won't give up searching.
Deborah Sharavi
> > would have the news accounts of the time to track down where these figures
> > originally came from.
> Hate to bug you on this. I don't expect you to spend your life for the
> sake of my education, but if you can't back up your claim, maybe it's
> time to reevaluate the source of your conviction.
Standard Reference Encyclopedia Yearbook 1969
Standard Reference Library, Inc., New York
JORDAN, HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF
pp 310-311
History, 1969
The main tasks of the government in 1969 were to limit the scope of
Arab guerrilla activity and to press for the return of the areas on
the West Bank of the Jordan River occupied by Israel in 1967; neither
of these goals were realized in 1969. On March 24 the cabinet
resigned, and King Hussein swore in a new government with Abd
al-Mu'nim Rifa'i as premier. Rifa'i announced his intention to
maintain contacts with the United States "at the highest level" while
working to strengthen solidarity with Arab states, especially Iraq and
the United Arab Republic....
Arab commandos (Al-Fatah launched a rocket attack [April 8] against
the Israeli port of Eilat, bringing Israeli air retaliation to 'Aqaba.
In response Hussein announced, while still in the U.S., the arrest of
those responsible for the attack, and the clevage between Jordan and
the commandos continued to widen...Both Great Britain and the U.S.
agreed to sell arms to Jordan.
During August, a hardening of Hussein's position toward Israel and the
U.S. could be discerned. After repeated visits to the U.A.R. and other
Arab states for political and financial support, King Hussein
attempted to form a coalition with the guerrilla organization in
mid-August. Meanwhile, he formed a new cabinet, headed by former Prime
Minister Bahjat Talhouni, who was known to be favorably disposed
toward the commandos. In August, Syrian troops were invited to enter
Jordan and be deployed against Israel. This action was seen as a
manifestationb of growing Arab coordination.
Standard Reference Encyclopedia Yearbook 1970
Standard Reference Library, Inc., New York
JORDAN, HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF
pp 303-304
History, 1970
Jordan experienced persistent turmoil throughout 1970. King Hussein
was unable to prevent raids on Israel by the Jordanian-based Arab
commandos (Al-Fatah) and subsequent Israeli retaliation, nor was he
able to engage effectively in attacking Israelis. The situation became
more tense as sporadic fighting occurred between the guerrillas and
Hussein's predominantly Bedouin army.
Heavy fighting erupted between Arab commandos and army troops on June
7 and continued until June 14, claiming about 200 lives. A cease-fire
was finally reached when King Hussein yielded to guerrilla leader
Yasir Arafat and dismissed two Bedouin army commanders. On June 27 a
new government, under Premier Abdel Moneim Rifai, took a more
conciliatory attitude toward the commandos. Hussein appeared to be
trying to avert a civil war by giving in to major Palestinian demands.
On July 26, Jordan announced acceptance of the U.S. formula for a
three-month Arab-Israeli cease-fire to allow time for peace
negotiations. Most commando groups rejected the U.S. plan, and
Hussein's army began to take precautionary military measures. On Sept.
16 Hussein appointed a military government to counter the growing
commando threat. In a retaliatory move, Arab commandos ordered their
men to resist any attempt by the Jordanian army to dislodge them from
Amman and other cities. A ten-day civil war ensued, during which an
estimated 20,000 persons were killed. During the fighting Syria sent
tanks to aid the commandos, but quickly withdrew them after the U.S.
hinted that it would intervene if Middle East countries took part in
the fighting.
It was reported that Hussein's decision to attack the commandos was
prompted by the triple hijackings engineered by the Popular Front for
the Liberation of Palestine. After forcing down the planes, the
commandos had held the passengers as hostages, and later released them
(see AVIATION, CIVIL). Late in September, peace was restored in Jordan
through the efforts of United Arab Republic President Gamal Abdel
Nasser just before his death on September 26.
Standard Reference Encyclopedia Yearbook 1971
Standard Reference Library, Inc., New York
JORDAN, HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF
pp 303-304
History, 1971
King Hussein solved the problem of the Palestinian guerrilla in 1971
by virtually eliminating them. But comparative internal peace was
bought at the price of alienating opinion in almost every Arab
country. Syria and Iraq closed their borders with Jordan, and demands
were made for its expulsion from the Arab League (q.v.). Accusations
of secret peace negotiations with Israel (q.v.) were made against the
Jordanian government.
A 13-point agreement signed by the government and the Palestinian
Liberation Organization (P.L.O.) in Amman on Jan. 14 lasted less than
a month. At the beginning of February fighting between Jordanian
troops and guerrillas went on in Amman for six days. On March 6
clashes in Irbid spread to Amman and western Jordan. Libya, Sudan, and
Syria denounced the ruthlessness of the army, and the guerrillas
claimed that Palestinians were being massacred in northern Jordan. The
P.L.O. was compelled to remove all heavy weapons from Amman.
Representatives of Arab countries meeting in Cairo demanded an end to
military operations against the guerrillas, but King Hussein declared
that Jordan needed security and stability and would not tolerate
outside interference. He banned all guerrilla-sponsored trade unions
and student bodies.
Guerrilla leader Yasir Arafat claimed that 20,000 Palestinians had
been killed or wounded in the fighting. But the government then
decided to eliminated the guerrilla presence in Jordan entirely. King
Hussein ordered Premier Wasfi Tal to take strong action against the
guerrilla positions north of Amman. In a few days, not a guerrilla
base was left. The movement was completely crushed, and many
guerrillas fled into Syria and even Israel. Those remaining gave up
their arms.
Arab reactions was swift. The United Arab Republic (U.A.R.) canceled
Hussein's planned visit to Cairo. Assurances that Jordan had not
abandoned the Cairo and Amman agreements concerning the guerrilla
movement did not prevent Iraq from closing its border nor Algeria and
Libya from suspending diplomatic relations. At a summit meeting in
Tripoli on July 30, Libya, Syria, the U.A.R., and the two Yemen
republics condemned Jordan's actions. On Aug. 12 Syria broke off
relations after armed clashes along the border. Saudi Arabia and the
U.A.R. tried to mediate between Jordan and Syria. In reprisal, on Nov.
28, while he was attending an Arab League meeting in Cairo, Premier
Tal was assassinated by four members of a guerrilla organization, the
Black September Group. He was succeeded by the finance minister, Ahmed
Louzi.
> Just wondering...
> > But in all massacres, whether they bee in Rwanda
> > or Sabra/Shatilla, or the Holocaust, or Tiananman square, wherever,
> > figures are always floated and they must emanate from somewhere. I can't
> > spend my life on it, but I will do my utmost to find the source of the
> > 15,000 figure of rumored number of Palestinians killed by the Jordanian
> > Legion in 1970-72, starting with Black September. ONe thing I am certain
> > of, is that the Arabs will never be of any help in tracking down any truth
> > regarding their atrocities. They are always bandying about figures from
> > Deir Yassin and Sabra and Shatilla and are vociferous in quoting each other.
Myth of Arab "unity" and "brotherhood".....
Deborah