<<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
F u s t i g a t o r
<<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
________________________________
I found this quite interesting to let you read this in spite of the
fact that it is quite long, so that you can make your opinion by
yourself concerning this fellow Abu Jajah
Fusti
====text===
Introduction
In this paper I will present a view of the current situation of Arabs
in Europe. My intention is not to elaborate on legal procedures or new
legislation by the European union on “combating terrorism” nor I will
be trying to define terrorism or propose strategies to deal with it,
as I am sure many of the other papers in this conference will be doing
that. Instead I will try to shed some light on the socio-political and
cultural interactions between Arabs and Europeans and the
socio-cultural context prior to the eleventh of September and what
changes occurred after it. This is not an academical paper and was not
meant to be one. My intention all through will be to reflect the
situation out of an Arab-European perspective. The eleventh of
September will not be the pivotal date in this paper nor its
leitmotiv. I will try to sketch a more comprehensive image of
the roots of Islamophobia and anti-Arab feeling in Europe with a
political and historical approach. As an illustration case, I will
examine closely the situation of the Arab community in the province of
Flanders in Belgium, because it is where I live and therefore I would
be more capable of giving a personal testimony on the situation there.
This paper is based upon the experience and day to day findings of the
Arab European League (AEL), a Belgian based organization that is
active in defending the civil rights of Arabs in Europe and a better
understanding for Arab causes in general. AEL is more a movement than
a lobby; it operates on the grassroots level and is widely represented
among the second generation Arabs in Belgium.
1-The burden of history
Not many people in Europe today are aware of the way their role in
history has been perceived and experienced by other peoples. Not many
Europeans would like to enter a debate on the repercussions of their
colonization on what they call the third world. Neither would they
like to admit that many of the world’s conflicts today are a direct
result of the mess Europe created wherever it passed. In Belgium for
instance the colonization of Congo is barely mentioned in public
debate, and the continuous interfering in the politics of that country
even after direct colonization had ended (see the Belgian implication
in the murder of Lumumba) is also not a favorite subject of
discussion. The same goes for Rwanda and Burundi, and
the relation between Belgian colonization of these countries and the
creation of the division between Hutu and Tutsi. And the direct and
indirect fueling of the conflict between the two groups that resulted
in the Rwandan genocide and the death of more than a million people,
all this is also a subject to avoid.
Europe suffers from selective amnesia, on the one hand it will never
forget the Holocaust, never forget even the eleventh of September, but
Algeria, Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq are all too often forgotten.
The new Europe is trying, however, to cut a new deal with the world.
It is trying to be the enlightened partner of the unique super power.
It is always looking for nuances, for that good middle way, and often
to the frustration of the American big brother and its loyal lackey in
London. Europe is playing an important role in what it calls
development cooperation, building partnerships with its southern
neighbors that are useful, even though they are far from being a
structural solution to any problem. That enlightened Europe that is
propagated mainly through the institutions of the European union is
supposed to bring a message of tolerance and broadmindedness to the
world and help healing the wounds of conflicts and war. Nevertheless,
one might wonder if this new message that Europe wants to bring to the
world and the role that Europe wants to claim are not a modern-day
version of the infamous “white man’s burden” of the past centuries. It
is legitimate to pose this question since ethnocentrism still stains
policies and minds in the old continent.
2-The apogee of fear
Europe has a problem with its own history, it is trying to forge an
identity out of a conflictual past with as only tools: common
interests and values.
By doing so, the process of European integration is shaking the
foundations of the old identities and making certain populations feel
insecure, easily threatened or easy to perceive insecurity in its
subjective form.
In a world globalizing and a Europe integrating, a peasant from the
Flemish country side or a worker from the port of Antwerp or even a
banker from Brussels will easily feel exposed to “external dangers”
regardless of their factual existence or the lack of it. These dangers
can take the form of economical competition like hostile takeovers by
multinationals or European mergers accompanied by what is cynically
called rationalization, which means sacking workers to cut down
expenses in a more competitive environment.
Sabena and Swiss air merged and then both went bankrupt short before
Belgium replaced its national currency with the Euro. Economical
mutations are being conceived not only as a source of instability on
the employment market or a financial adventure in an unknown realm,
but also as a loss of national symbols (national airline, national
currency). The danger ”that is coming from outside” can also be a
disease (mad cow or foot and mouth) and once again be expensive to
deal with. The threat can even take more modern and unfamiliar forms
like a computer virus (you all remember the I love you virus coming
also from outside, somewhere in cyber space). But the biggest threat
of them all, despite all innovation and mutation, is the most ancient
one of them all: fellow man.
People are more than ever afraid of other people, especially when that
other is coming from outside. When he is a stranger, a foreigner. With
a world losing its boundaries a foreigner has become more threatening
for many reasons. He is more likely to come from “outside” to “inside”
as borders are becoming vague and redundant in Europe and people can
travel almost as easy as goods. He is more likely to claim the same
rights as local, European citizens can now vote in municipal and
European elections in Belgium and discussions are ongoing to give even
non-EU residents that same right. He might be more skilled and more
capable of finding a job in the new economy that is based upon
communication skills and technological literacy. He is very likely to
take advantage of tax facilities while withdrawing money from the
national market and transferring it to his home country. He will bring
with him new ideas and new traditions that might not be consistent
with the nature of the country and its people.
Cocooning within the safe boundaries of ones own community and country
is no more a possible dream except in few cases.
These reasons make a Flemish individual from Antwerp mistrust and even
dislike a priori any Dutch person who moved to live and work in
Antwerp (thousands of Dutch people indeed took that step and are met
with similar attitudes).
So here we are talking about what this situation can do between two
white Europeans speaking the same language and very likely practicing
the same religion and sharing similar values. Let us now imagine that
this “other” is a bit more different than a Dutch man is. Let’s say he
is dark skinned, with black curly hair, that he comes originally from
Morocco, speaks Arabic and practices Islam. But also, that he is a
manual worker, not very skilled and struggling to survive and forced
often to use the welfare system and social security funds as finding a
job is already more difficult than ever, even for more skilled people.
It is needless to say that the fear and mistrust will be far greater.
3-Islam-phobia, racism or just xenophobia?
Xenophobia is not strange to human nature whether you are Arab,
European or Chinese. Actually it is a natural reflex that has deep
going roots in the human psyche since we first left our caves and took
to the fields and steppes and started encountering other human groups.
But in Europe it is accentuated by another more malice and less
general attitude: racism. Racism is an ideology and a state of mind
prescribing the supremacy of ones own race over all other races. A
racist person does not believe in productive coexistence and
interaction and can only conceive one relationship with people from
other races and that is exploitation. In other words, if one can
exploit or at least use another racial group than one can tolerate its
presence and in all other cases that racial group has to disappear,
because if it were useless than its mere existence would be harmful.
Making another racial group disappear can be achieved through ethnic
cleansing, deportation or even genocide.
No where in the world did racism flourish more than in Europe. Racist
paradigms evolved and mutated but never disappeared. From slavery, to
the “white man’s burden” and from “missionary evangelization” to the
“message of Europe”. From Hitler’s “final solution” to Le Pen’s
“repatriation of all non European strangers”.
Racism added to xenophobia is an explosive cocktail. If you want to
make the equation even more complicated than you have to bring Arabism
and Islam into the picture.
Europe has never digested its defeat in the crusades nor did the Arab
world forget the atrocities committed by these “savages coming from
the north” and their holy war to retrieve the tomb of what they see as
their god. Islam for Europeans is not only another average unknown
world; it is historically and psychologically a hostile one and a
dangerous one.
In the middle-ages, the fear of a superior Arab-Islamic empire and
civilization trying to expend its territory into the heart of Europe
was more than just a phobia, it was a geopolitical reality. Nowadays,
components of this same fear are still present in European popular
culture and are more and more infiltrating the political spectrum. The
only difference is that the image of the Arab-Islamic culture and
world is not that of a superior foe but rather a weakened and wounded
one. At the same time it is a foe contesting the status-quo and using
the dynamic and mobilizing nature of its religion to revitalize itself
and regain its ancient status.
This paper did not start with the buzz sentence “after the fall of the
Soviet Union” because we all know that it is when the communist danger
was defeated that Europe and the west started to be haunted by its old
demons of Islam-phobia. And unlike anti communism, Islam-phobia could
perfectly be combined with racism and xenophobia. The result was that
in the beginning of the nineties anti-Arab and anti-Muslim discourse
started to become trivial mainstream discourse in many milieus. And
this all coincided with theories about an unavoidable clash of
civilization that the west and Islam will be its main protagonists.
The polarization of the world was then reestablished, with the West
and its Judeo-Christian civilization on one side and the Arab and
Islamic worlds and Islam on the other. It is the Middle Ages
revisited.
Soon after, the west sent its first modern-day crusade to save a
friendly vassal prince from the evil and madness of a megalomaniac and
bloodthirsty Saracen dictator.
4. Paving the way of pain .
Even though the Gulf war of 1991 was clearly an American war and
that most European policy makers conceived it as such, and even
defined their implication in it and their strategies in function of
one goal: tempering the American outburst and ambitions. On the
popular level the Gulf war was lived and experienced differently. If
we put aside the traditional protest of pacifist and leftist Europe
that is by no means representative of the main stream, the average
European citizen bought the American version of the story and looked
at Iraq as an empire of evil governed by a mad man plotting
to control the world.
Reaganism is a very simplistic doctrine that can easily gain support
among masses. Its populism is the key to its popularity, and this is
true in Europe, as it is true in the U.S.
Bush senior, a loyal disciple of the third rank actor -who obviously
acted good enough to make it to the white house but never to
Hollywood- knew that very well and stayed loyal to the almost
religious polarization methods practiced by his predecessor. The
demonization of the enemy leader is an essential step in the process
of dehumanization of his people. Both processes have been thoroughly
executed during the gulf war in a way that allowed the murder of
thousands of Iraqi civilians while only speaking of collateral damage.
In the street of Brussels the polarization was strongly felt. On the
one hand the Belgian population was completely terrified by the
possibility of an Iraqi missile attack reaching to the heart of Europe
while the Arab immigrant community, that is strongly present, was
bitter about the war and did not hide its sympathy with Iraq and its
despise of the Americans.
The Arabs in Belgium were then looked at as the “fifth column” of the
evil enemy. These immigrants who were invited to come in the sixties
when Belgium experienced a shortage in cheap labor, and who worked
hard and helped building Belgium’s infrastructure and industry not to
mention working in mines under barely human conditions, have became
useless after the economical crisis of the seventies and early
eighties. But what the Belgian government did not anticipate is that
most of them decided to stay, especially since their children were
born in their new country. And as we already mentioned while talking
about racist mechanisms, a useless different ethnic group can not be
tolerated or accepted, it has to disappear. This was exactly how
Moroccans in Belgium were perceived, and unfortunately, this is
still the case today. One might argue that this has to do with the
racist white supremacy attitude of the average Belgian accentuated by
the economical crisis, and that is indeed true. The statistics of the
European Union (Euro barometer 1997) single Belgium out as the most
racist country in Europe. But it is also true that the islamophobic
reflex that was revitalized by the gulf war added extra fuel to the
whole explosive equation. After the defeat of Iraq the bitterness of
Arabs in Belgium turned into frustration and the fear of the fifth
column did not vanish.
It is by no means a coincidence that 1991 is the year that witnessed
the most violent clashes between the police and Arab youth in what
looked like intifada scenes in the street of Brussels and that was
only weeks after the gulf war ended. The reason of the clashes was
that the far right racist party “Vlaams Blok” was allowed to hold a
political rally in Molenbeek, a neighborhood of Brussels where
predominantly Arab immigrants live. Vlaams Blok was already
campaigning on a strong anti immigrant platform very similar to that
of Le Pen in France. Among its slogans one could read “Islam
out” or even “halt Islamic invasion”. To allow a party like this into
the streets of Molenbeek in the spring of 1991 is definitely asking
for troubles. The clashes were very violent and lasted for days and
they ended only when the minister of interior issued an official
apology to the Arab community and promised not to commit such mistakes
in the future. A couple of months later the same racist party scored a
sweeping victory in the national elections and even became the biggest
political party in the important city of Antwerp.
5. The other side of the medal
It is because Europe has to do the most with racism that Europe talks
the most about anti- racism. And it is there, in European anti-racist
strategies, that the most dangerous mistakes were committed and that
racism is building its most impressive shrines.
The electoral victory of Vlaams Blok shocked and surprised their
friends and foes alike. No one could imagine that a party with such an
archaic message “the immediate deportation of all non-white
immigrants” could gain so much support. The whole political
establishment felt the ground shaking under its feet, not only because
the Blok was racist but also because the Blok is openly an
anti-Belgian party and calls for the immediate independence of the
Flemish provinces. An urgent need was felt to deprive this party of
its main theme, namely the immigration issue. Solutions were supposed
to be worked out in order to solve the existing problems among the
various groups of the population.
Integration was all of a sudden prescribed as the magical remedy for
all the illnesses of racism and hatred in society. A whole strategy of
integration was prophetically revealed by two prominent individuals,
Johan Leman and Paula D’hondt. But instead of looking at integration
as a process involving the whole population, immigrant and indigenous
alike, and that must lead to a multicultural organization of society
and to the abolishing of discrimination, integration as understood by
Leman and D’hondt was a process that must lead to abolishing all
differences between the majority and the immigrant minority through
the way of total assimilation of the minority.
In other words, diversity was considered to be the problem and not the
incapacity of Belgian society to deal with it. So instead of making a
more diverse societal structure one must eliminate diversity and go
back to a mono-cultural situation. This logic is the other side of the
racist medal, it is also calling for the disappearance of the “other”
through eliminating all what it makes him an “other”, his culture, his
language, and even his religion. The only thing that it is willing to
accept is for him to have different physical characteristics, and even
on that level they were not ashamed to say that “marrying a Belgian”
was the “highest level of integration”.
Not having a problem with a person of another race as long as he
speaks your language, have your culture, and believe in your values is
maybe not completely racist, it is just three quarter racist and one
quarter hypocrite, and that was exactly what the integration policy of
the Belgian government was.
Another very important characteristic of that policy is that it just
doesn’t work.
Assimilation is now farther than ever, and let me be clear on the fact
that this is a positive fact because cultural diversity and the right
to preserve ones culture and language are sacred human rights. The
immigrant community experienced the integration policy of the
government often as an attack on its values and existence as a
minority group. As a reaction to that it started to organize itself in
self-organizations with as main task the promotion and preservation of
the culture and religion. Mosques flourished and Arabic classes
reached most of the young immigrants and gave them a necessary tool to
keep the link with their culture. On the political level, the failure
of the integration policies generated a false impression that no
solutions are possible for the genuine problems facing any
multicultural society, and that impression gave extra arguments to the
Vlaams Blok that the only solution was and still deportation. After
ten years, the immigrants are more Moroccan and Muslims than ever, the
Belgian public is more Islamophobic than ever and the Vlaams Blok is
stronger than ever with 15 percent of the national vote and 33 percent
in the city of Antwerp. The Leman- D’hondt strategies did not only
fail, they backfired.
In the neighborhoods where Arabs and Belgians live next to each
other, the tension is raising and a storm is looming on the horizon.
This time when the wind will blow, the 1991 riots will look like a
fresh breath on a sunny morning.
6. Towards a human rights approach
Almost two years ago in may 2000, the Arab European League published
two articles in one of the most respected newspapers in Belgium
calling for a halt to the integration policies and to approach the
whole issue of majority-minority relationship through a human rights
perspective. We said that the concept of integration as applied in
Belgium is undemocratic and racist, and that equal rights and
multiculturalism are the only way towards harmonious coexistence.
Putting integration as a precondition to basic rights is an outrage,
the only condition to enjoy human rights is being human.
Our position at the time came as a shock to many people who still
believed in the old paradigm and were unable to see that it is a
fiasco. We were accused of being fundamentalists because we were in
favor of preserving our identity, we were accused of being communists
because we appealed for equal rights and we were conceived as being a
danger because we declared that we are taking the matters into our own
hands. But our articles did start a debate and provoked Leman and his
disciples into admitting many shortcomings in their policy. They could
call us “The Arab Panthers” but they couldn’t deny that what we were
saying was true.
In Belgium, and especially in Flanders, an Arab can barely rent a
house, and even social habitat firms who are linked to the state are
operating with exclusion lists baring every Arab name. Arab children
are rejected at schools and quotas are being implemented to limit
their numbers. And the ones who do make it through the primary schools
are canalized by the administration into technical branches. The ones
who do succeed despite of all the obstacles to obtain a university
degree find it impossible to find a job. The only jobs that are
available are in the social sector, that is known to be more tolerant,
and for the rest in the interim circuit.
With no proper housing, no proper schooling and no access to work,
three of the most basic human rights are systematically violated.
Discrimination is not an occasional malfunction of the system but a
structural mechanism infesting a whole society. Second-generation
immigrants who are born in Belgium and know no other place as their
home mainly feel this situation. It has created a generation with no
future and nothing to lose. And instead of dealing with the main
problems that racism and discrimination are causing, government policy
is a combination of assimilation-oriented action and
police repression.
Professors Ludo Walgrave and Kris Kesteloot from the catholic
university of Leuven concluded in a four years study over youth and
urbanism that white Belgian youngsters have a ten time higher
percentage among all drug dealers.
Moroccan youngsters are, however, ten times more arrested than
Belgians for drug dealing. This means that the police are ten times
more likely to arrest a Moroccan than a Belgian for committing exactly
the same crime. In the city of Antwerp, where 33 percent voted Vlaams
Blok and a bigger percentage sympathize with that party, the police
commissioner Luc Lamin admitted that his police corps is heavily
infiltrated by far right militants. “One third of my policeman at
least are Vlaams Blok sympathizers” he said to the media.
Now please imagine how fair a police patrol would be when it comes
across a group of Arab kids in the streets of Antwerp.
The term that Belgians use to describe an Arab is “makkak” which means
“white ape”, would it be a crime to contest the authority of a police
officer calling you that? The answer is no. Contesting a
discriminatory authority is not only legitimate; it is a democratic
duty.
Two years after our first appeal to equal rights, we are still
receiving, daily, tens of complaints and registered cases of racial
abuse, mistreatment and discrimination. We try to use our good access
to the Flemish press to confront decision makers with this fact, our
lawyers try to pursue legal steps in some of the cases, but we are
limited financially to the strict minimum necessary. Next to the
complaint of a community looking more to us as its sole defender, we
are receiving the hate mail of a majority that is unable to conceive
that a makkak is just another human being. And of course the
occasional life threat is a familiar guest of our mailbox or answering
machine.
7. A day like any other
Let us put something straight, if there is something to conclude of
all the former paragraphs it will be that Europe did not need the
eleventh of September to be islamophobic or anti-Arab. Sure, right
after the events we registered a higher frequency of incidents and
racial abuse in most European countries. I was myself arrested on the
16th of September together with 50 other members of our organization.
We were told by police officers things like “together with the
Americans we will smash your brains”, but I was also interrogated
weeks before the events by an officer of state security who gave me
his card and I was amused to read on it “Islam and terrorism cell”.
What happened in New York made it less politically incorrect to use
terms as terrorist-Islam and allowed the far right parties to be more
assertive in their discourse but it did not create the syndrome
itself. The eleventh of September in Europe is an act of language more
than action. It has taken the debate into another level, maybe
sharpened an existing situation to a limited extent, but the situation
was already dramatic enough before. After the eleventh of September an
Arab has difficulties to find a job, to rent an apartment or to send
his children to school, but this was exactly the case on the 10th of
September.
For asylum seekers Europe was a fortress already and asylum policy was
already designed to expel as many as possible and accept as few as
possible.
Security was the hot-item on the 10th of September and even a small
gathering of Arab children on a sidewalk was considered a security
issue, it still is.
New European policing measures are not of a magnitude that can be
compared with what is going on in the United States itself. So does
that mean that the situation in Europe has been stabilized? Or that
the potential of islamophobia is exhausted? We don’t believe this is
the case. The fact of the matter is that Europeans are very aware of
why the U.S. have been targeted and not Brussels or Berlin, just like
every body else is aware of these reasons. Europe does not feel the
real urge to take similar measures as the Americans did, and will not
risk destabilization by pushing a very young, dynamic and numerous
Arab second-generation into a radical path. When in 1993 far-right
extremists tried to start intimidating Arabs in the city of Antwerp,
and burned a mosque and a tearoom the reaction was swift.
Several cafés known to be far right minded were flattened and their
headquarters in Antwerp a place called “the Lion of Flanders” was
invaded by masked Arab youth and totally destroyed.
The Arab community in Europe is to be compared with the black minority
in the US and not with the Arab community there. It is socially,
politically and economically excluded, aware of the fact of
discrimination and racism, feels exploited and used and has produced a
futureless generation with nothing to lose. That generation also
developed a sub-culture of rebellion and is ready to take its cause to
the streets at any moment. In Paris, in Marseille, just like in
Brussels and Rotterdam or London, Trying to oppress Arabs and Muslims
will mean a street war that nobody wants.
We have succeeded in keeping our community relatively calm through the
years, we are intending on continuing to canalize its legitimate
grievances into political and civil action, but Europe must be willing
to make our task easier, and till now we feel that they are aware of
that.
8. Conclusion
I am aware that this paper did not sketch a very positive image of the
interaction between Arabs and Europeans, but it is my deep conviction
that it has sketched a realistic image. If we ever want a solution to
these problems we have to start by naming things by their names.
Political correctness is not a valid reason to avoid the naked truth,
no matter how difficult and hard to bare that truth might be. Europe
can have better intentions than the United States, and can have a more
balanced stance on the middle-east conflict but this all will not
change the fact that it is oppressing and discriminating its Arab
minority. The situation I sketched is not exclusively Belgian, in
Denmark the situation is even worse, in Austria and in France similar
situations are lived by our youth. The latest outbursts of racial
violence against Moroccan immigrants in the south of Spain testify of
similar patterns. In Italy the government is in the hand of the
Islamophobic Berluscuni and his far-right allies. In Britain the
streets of Birmingham and Oldham witnessed recently very violent
racial riots between Muslim Asian youth and white far-right
extremists. In Germany racial attacks are registered daily especially
in the east of the country.
America might be bullying the world on the international level but it
had certainly a better approach to its own race relation problems. The
events of the eleventh of September changed that for the Arab
community there and forced them into a civil rights battle that they
were never willing to enter. Arab-Americans realized lately that they
need the support of other minorities when they never really gave these
minorities their support because their socio-economical position
allowed them to enjoy a better standard of living than them. In Europe
our community is among the poorest and the most oppressed, we have
always been in the thick of a civil rights battle and the eleventh of
September has nothing to do with it. Since 1991 we are stigmatized as
terrorists and a fifth column and screened and infiltrated by all kind
of security agencies. Our mosques are monitored and our offices are
bugged. The only difference is that Europeans know how to hide their
Iron fist with a silky glove while Americans just wave it naked in the
air. A question of more refinement one might argue.
But still, we believe in a solution and that is the respect of the
international declaration of human rights and its application in a
proactive and concrete way. We do not need our rights if we can not
exercise them; the abstract form of a right has no value if it is not
met with its practical fulfillment. Racism should no more be
considered as an opinion but as a crime, and discrimination should be
rooted out. The existing gap that is the result of years of
discriminating policies on many levels should be closed by affirmative
action policies, and this should not be mistaken for positive
discrimination, it is just correcting what discrimination caused.
Culture should be considered a private matter just like religion is,
law is the only set of rules and values that are binding to everybody
in a modern society, and all the rest is a matter of individual
choice. Multiculturalism should be the norm and all cultures should be
treated equally and given the space to be promoted and preserved.
Preserving ones culture is not limited to culinary art and music; it
is also reaching every other aspect of life.
Also all minority languages have the right to be taught and preserved
regardless of whether they are an official language of the state or
not. The existing of a lingua franca does not imply the disappearance
of every other language. Political representation should be
guaranteed to all residents, one could not have all the obligations
without having all the rights. The concept of a citizen should become
colorless and cultureless. Not only justice should be blind but also
the police and the administration and school directors and employers
and landlords.
At the same time, and on another level, Europe should exorcise its
demons and deal with Islam like it deals with any other religion.
Islam will make forever a part of European culture and it has
contributed enormously to the foundation of European civilization and
it still can contribute. Europeans from Arab and Muslim descent can
and should become a bridge for a better understanding between two of
the greatest civilizations in history. Europe needs our help to
dissociate itself from American hegemonic ambitions and to sail on its
own course. And we need Europe’s help to break the international
isolation of our rightful cause in Palestine and to ease the suffering
of the Iraqi people under the criminal and illegal embargo.
The academical community in Belgium is now reexamining the two
articles that the Arab European League has published in May 2000, and
that have caused a huge controversy. The University of Antwerp decided
after taking our permission to publish them together with the other
articles that came as a reaction to them in a special book in French
and Dutch. What was politically incorrect less than two years ago is
now becoming academical material, and even politicians are admitting
that they have missed the point on certain issues. This gives us hope
for the future and makes us continue to believe in dialogue. A
dialogue that can not take the form of a dictate, and it can
not be held while we keep on avoiding the facts whenever they are hard
to assume. Only an honest and frank dialogue can lead to results.
Only the truth can and will save us.
Dyab Abu Jahjah .
=="nd of text===
The writer is the president of the Arab European League, and a
researcher at the Catholic University of Louvain in Belgium,
specialised in international relations and security issues. He lives
in the city of Antwerp.
Hugo Maes
>
> <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
Wel, dat was nu eens *geen* ruis. Artikel gesaved om later te lezen.
mvg, HM
(als het goed is zeggen we het ook)
De Joker ©
>
> ________________________________
>
> I found this quite interesting to let you read this in spite of the
> fact that it is quite long,
Really? By the way, how long was it?
(J)
De Joker ©
>
> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>
> Wel, dat was nu eens *geen* ruis. Artikel gesaved om later te lezen.
Dus jij kunt ons ook niet zeggen wat erin stond?
(J)
Luc Van Braekel
"Hugo Maes" <hugo...@chello.be> wrote in message
news:3DF0CC92...@chello.be...
> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
> >
> > <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
>
> Wel, dat was nu eens *geen* ruis. Artikel gesaved om later te lezen.
Tiens, het oorspronkelijke artikel van Fust heb ik hier niet zijn voorbijkomen
(Telenet), maar met de referentie die ik terugvond in jouw headers, heb ik het
wel kunnen oproepen. Raar.
Luc
Willem-Jan Markerink
news:ea41vukc98n09p0g5...@4ax.com:
>
>
> <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
> ________________________________
>
> I found this quite interesting to let you read this in spite of the
> fact that it is quite long, so that you can make your opinion by
> yourself concerning this fellow Abu Jajah
>
> Fusti
> ====text===
> Introduction
>
> In this paper I will present a view of the current situation of Arabs
> in Europe.
Hee, grappig, er was toch nooit 1 soort arabier, en 1 soort islam?
Als het ze uitkomt wel weer?
--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink
The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand
<w.j.ma...@a1.nl>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]
Willem-Jan Markerink
> <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
Aha, hier klinkt een zeer zelf-kritische cultuur in door!
Allahmaal slechte dingen in andere culturen, nooit de eigen....
Omar Fathi
> Not many people in Europe today are aware of the way their role in
> history has been perceived and experienced by other peoples. Not many
> Europeans would like to enter a debate on the repercussions of their
> colonization on what they call the third world. Neither would they
> like to admit that many of the world's conflicts today are a direct
> result of the mess Europe created wherever it passed.
Vanuit een historisch perspectief kan men ongeacht welk volk opvoeren als dé
boosdoener, zowat alle misdaden hebben een negatief gevolg gehad... what's
the point? Persoonlijk vind ik het goed dat men de geschiedenis niet zomaar
achterwege laat, wat ik echter niet begrijp is waarom de kritiek van Dyab
éénzijdig is, alsof de hedendaags wantoestanden op globaal niveau
uitsluitend veroorzaakt zijn door 'europeanen'.
De verschillende commissies die er geweest zijn om tal van misdaden tegen de
menselijkheid én de omstandigheden of betrokkenheid van bepaalde instanties
te onderzoeken zijn er dankzij de 'openbaarheid' en vrije pers. Zulke
misdaden komen niet eens aan't licht in een dictatuur, God weet wat voor
zaken er allemaal aan het licht komen eens de Arabische wereld beseft dat
bepaalde vrijheden een conditio sine qua non zijn voor een gezonde
samenleving.
> Europe suffers from selective amnesia, on the one hand it will never
> forget the Holocaust, never forget even the eleventh of September, but
> Algeria, Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq are all too often forgotten.
Deze uitspraak en hersenkronkel lijkt me veeleer een gevolg van de
haatgevoelens ten aanzien van de joden en zionisten dan wel ééntje dat het
gevolg is van een eerlijke reflectie. De kritiek dat men bepaalde genocides
'niet' duidelijk genoeg naar voren brengt is trouwens een voorbeeld van
westers zelfkritiek, dat het in de Arabisch/Islamitische wereld ontbreekt
aan zelfkritiek is duidelijk aan de hand van de verschillende genocides waar
of Turken of Arabier of Moslims achter zaten... doch halen deze zaken
slechts zelden het nieuws in de Arabische wereld juist omdat de pers daar
veel minder vrij is.
> Europe has a problem with its own history, it is trying to forge an
> identity out of a conflictual past with as only tools: common
> interests and values.
Waar is het AEL mee bezig?
> No where in the world did racism flourish more than in Europe.
Als racisme eveneens discriminatie op religieus vlak inhoudt dan zijn alle
landen die in hun grondwet de sharia hebben opgenomen betreft personen-recht
door en door racistisch aangezien moslims-mannen genieten van alle rechten
terwijl andere religies of vrouwen steevast beperkt zijn in hun rechten...
dat is wat anders dan de aanwezigheid van racisme in landen waar 'racisme'
opzich strafbaar is!
> Racism added to xenophobia is an explosive cocktail.
??? begrijpt iemand deze stelling?
> Islam for Europeans is not only another average unknown
> world; it is historically and psychologically a hostile one and a
> dangerous one.
Men zou voor minder als men weet dat de Arabieren tot in Poitiers zijn
geraakt? Of kijken de moslims ook met veel ontzag en liefde naar de
Mongoolse invallen?!
> If we put aside the traditional protest of pacifist and leftist Europe
> that is by no means representative of the main stream, the average
> European citizen bought the American version of the story and looked
> at Iraq as an empire of evil governed by a mad man plotting
> to control the world.
Kan iemand mij dan vertellen wat de Iraaqse leider dan wel is als hij 'niet'
gestoord is of een machtswellusteling?
Trouwens dat fenomeen van "pacifist & leftist" is in de ogen van heel wat
moslims een bizar fenomeen, ik zou echter stellen: wees blij dat er nog
tolerante mensen zijn, echte 'links-georiënteerden' zijn een zeldzaamheid in
het midden-oosten.
Wel grappig dat Dyab uitvoerig over de begin jaren '90 praat terwijl hij op
dat moment België en waarschijnlijk ook Europa zo goed als niet kende...
Scathophaga Stercoraria
<Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl> wrote:
><<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
Klinkt als: Osama Bin Laden spreekt tot u ....
>I found this quite interesting to let you read this in spite of the
>fact that it is quite long, so that you can make your opinion by
>yourself concerning this fellow Abu Jajah
Don't worry , we will !!
<cut foreplay>
>1-The burden of history
A clear attempt to drive a wedge between Europe and the US, to divide and rule,
You are going to have to do better than phrases like: "Europe is trying to be
the enlightened partner of the unique super power" ....... !!!
Obviously the political Islam talking through your mouth ......Sorry, we won't
go for that .... nor will it ever work !!
>2-The apogee of fear
>Europe has a problem with its own history, it is trying to forge an
>identity out of a conflictual past with as only tools: common
>interests and values.
Which are more than enough, thank you ......more than enough to make an iron
fist against the common factors of Islamic countries such as: Intolerance,
oppression, dictatorship, no respect for human rights, in short, ignorant
religious and outdated beliefs
>By doing so, the process of European integration is shaking the
>foundations of the old identities and making certain populations feel
>insecure, easily threatened or easy to perceive insecurity in its
>subjective form.
You wish .......!!
>In a world globalizing and a Europe integrating, a peasant from the
>Flemish country side or a worker from the port of Antwerp or even a
>banker from Brussels will easily feel exposed to “external dangers”
>regardless of their factual existence or the lack of it. These dangers
>can take the form of economical competition like hostile takeovers by
>multinationals or .....[ ... ]
A farmer fears being taken over by a multinational ?????
>European mergers accompanied by what is cynically
>called rationalization, which means sacking workers to cut down
>expenses in a more competitive environment.
It's called capitalism, you guys should tried it .......!!
>Sabena and Swiss air merged and then both went bankrupt short before
>Belgium replaced its national currency with the Euro.
No relation whatsoever between the two airlines merging and the introduction of
the euro .....except maybe in your mind !?
And are you suggesting the two airlines went bankrupt because of the merger ?
Funny, we in the West tend to think that the airline-business as a whole took a
nose-dive because of the "brave" actions of your friend Osama Bin Laden !!?
But don't worry, we in the West tend to think that what goes down will eventualy
go up again !! It's called: market-fluctuation, neat huh ?
>Economical mutations are being conceived not only as a source of instability on
>the employment market or a financial adventure in an unknown realm,
>but also as a loss of national symbols (national airline, national
>currency). The danger ”that is coming from outside” can also be a
>disease (mad cow or foot and mouth) and once again be expensive to
>deal with. The threat can even take more modern and unfamiliar forms
>like a computer virus (you all remember the I love you virus coming
>also from outside, somewhere in cyber space). But the biggest threat
>of them all, despite all innovation and mutation, is the most ancient
>one of them all: fellow man.
Well, you sure are seeing a lot of dangers coming from the OUTSIDE.
We, on the other hand, as Europeans, are seeing a real danger from WITHIN, that
is, the growing numbers of Islamamic followers, especially the fundamentalist
variety like yourself, multiplying like a cancergrowth !! But hey, you know what
the cure for cancer is, don't you ?!?! Good, so do we !!
>People are more than ever afraid of other people, especially when that
>other is coming from outside. When he is a stranger, a foreigner. With
>a world losing its boundaries a foreigner has become more threatening
>for many reasons.
Not really, we as a travelling, trading, "ex-colonial" group of nations are used
to foreigners, don't worry ...... we do, however, like some more than others !!
>He is more likely to come from “outside” to “inside”
>as borders are becoming vague and redundant in Europe and people can
>travel almost as easy as goods.
Did you know that borders can easily be re-established ? Well, ok ...
>He is more likely to claim the same
>rights as local, European citizens can now vote in municipal and
>European elections in Belgium and discussions are ongoing to give even
>non-EU residents that same right.
You wish !!...... We may be somewhat crazy but we ain't dumb !!
>He might be more skilled and more capable of finding a job in the new
>economy that is based upon communication skills and technological literacy.
>He is very likely to take advantage of tax facilities while withdrawing money from the
>national market and transferring it to his home country.
You aren't talking about Arabs, are you ?? Funny man !!
>He will bring with him new ideas and new traditions that might not be consistent
>with the nature of the country and its people.
That's for sure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Cocooning within the safe boundaries of ones own community and country
>is no more a possible dream except in few cases.
Dreaming is for fools ....believe you me !! We prefer to be more "down to earth"
than that ....What ? No !! Not for praying !!
>These reasons make a Flemish individual from Antwerp mistrust and even
>dislike a priori any Dutch person who moved to live and work in
>Antwerp (thousands of Dutch people indeed took that step and are met
>with similar attitudes).
Not a chance .... they think we are cheap, economical, sober and a bit boring
but on the other hand good businessmen and we like to think that Belgians are
stupid (we joke a lot about that, haha) but also like "the good life", like the
gourmets they really are....and we love the way they pronounce "our" language !!
But mistrust ? No !! Where did you get your info ? Islamic school perhaps ?
>So here we are talking about what this situation can do between two
>white Europeans speaking the same language and very likely practicing
>the same religion and sharing similar values.
Right, tell you what, they already were very close and I really must thank you
for bringing the Dutch and the Belgiums even closer together than they ever
thought possible ....thanks a lot ........ "tot ziens" or as they say in
Belgium: "Tot Ziens" ........
>Let us now imagine that ......[ ... ]
Let's not, imagining and dreaming is for fools and other misguided people like
you so I regret to have to inform you that I have read quite enough of your
rubbish...ehm, I mean, your attempt to understand our society, you FAILED !!
Now let me end with a moment of prayer by reading to you a small part of the
bible and wishing you all the best to you and your family and friends .......
Insh'allah
-
Scathophaga Stercoraria (Strontvlieg, u weet wel)
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the
selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity
and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is
truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike
down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt
to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord
when I lay my VENGEANCE UPON THEE."
- Ezechiel 25:17 -
Luc Kumps
"Luc Van Braekel" <l...@flanders.info> wrote in message
news:HcaI9.38960$Ti2....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
Misschien houden de newsservers van Telenet maximaal slechts 1000 berichten
van een zelfde afzender per dag bij, en wordt wat daarboven gaat beschouwd
als spic & spam?
Luc K
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 21:28:24 GMT, in littera <3DF11AD8...@stop.it> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
Geef hem de tijd.
het spul is lang.
>
>(J)
(F)
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 16:11:10 GMT, in littera <3DF0CC92...@chello.be> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>>
>> <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
>
>Wel, dat was nu eens *geen* ruis.
Merdaloor!
Met dergelijke reacties zoals hierboven
verlies ik verdomme mijn reputatie;-)))))
>Artikel gesaved om later te lezen.
Allahu Akhbaru!
>
>mvg, HM
>(als het goed is zeggen we het ook)
Verdomme!;-)
Fusti
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 21:26:59 GMT, in littera <3DF11A83...@stop.it> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
597 lines
>
>(J)
(F)
F u s t i g a t o r
06 Dec 2002 23:15:51 GMT, in littera
<HcaI9.38960$Ti2....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be> in foro be.politics (et
aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>
Een kronkel van de usenetwegen, zeker?
Goede lectuur voor in het vliegtuig..
>Luc
>
Fusti
F u s t i g a t o r
7 Dec 2002 01:22:11 +0100, in littera
<10392205...@seven.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be> in foro be.politics
(et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>"F u s t i g a t o r" <Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl> wrote
>
>> Not many people in Europe today are aware of the way their role in
>> history has been perceived and experienced by other peoples. Not many
>> Europeans would like to enter a debate on the repercussions of their
>> colonization on what they call the third world. Neither would they
>> like to admit that many of the world's conflicts today are a direct
>> result of the mess Europe created wherever it passed.
>
>Vanuit een historisch perspectief kan men ongeacht welk volk opvoeren als dé
>boosdoener, zowat alle misdaden hebben een negatief gevolg gehad... what's
>the point?
Goed gezien.
>Persoonlijk vind ik het goed dat men de geschiedenis niet zomaar
>achterwege laat, wat ik echter niet begrijp is waarom de kritiek van Dyab
>éénzijdig is, alsof de hedendaags wantoestanden op globaal niveau
>uitsluitend veroorzaakt zijn door 'europeanen'.
Omdat ze nu, samen met de Amerrikanen de hegemonie in de wereld
bezitten. De islamieten zijn dus de underdog.
>De verschillende commissies die er geweest zijn om tal van misdaden tegen de
>menselijkheid én de omstandigheden of betrokkenheid van bepaalde instanties
>te onderzoeken zijn er dankzij de 'openbaarheid' en vrije pers. Zulke
>misdaden komen niet eens aan't licht in een dictatuur, God weet wat voor
>zaken er allemaal aan het licht komen eens de Arabische wereld beseft dat
>bepaalde vrijheden een conditio sine qua non zijn voor een gezonde
>samenleving.
They still have 500 year to go.
>
>> Europe suffers from selective amnesia, on the one hand it will never
>> forget the Holocaust, never forget even the eleventh of September, but
>> Algeria, Rwanda, Bosnia, Iraq are all too often forgotten.
>
>Deze uitspraak en hersenkronkel lijkt me veeleer een gevolg van de
>haatgevoelens ten aanzien van de joden en zionisten dan wel ééntje dat het
>gevolg is van een eerlijke reflectie. De kritiek dat men bepaalde genocides
>'niet' duidelijk genoeg naar voren brengt is trouwens een voorbeeld van
>westers zelfkritiek, dat het in de Arabisch/Islamitische wereld ontbreekt
>aan zelfkritiek is duidelijk aan de hand van de verschillende genocides waar
>of Turken of Arabier of Moslims achter zaten... doch halen deze zaken
>slechts zelden het nieuws in de Arabische wereld juist omdat de pers daar
>veel minder vrij is.
Inderdaad. Wij betalen soms het gelag van onze eerlijkheid.
>> Europe has a problem with its own history, it is trying to forge an
>> identity out of a conflictual past with as only tools: common
>> interests and values.
>
>Waar is het AEL mee bezig?
De "vijfde colonne" te organiseren?
>> No where in the world did racism flourish more than in Europe.
>
>Als racisme eveneens discriminatie op religieus vlak inhoudt dan zijn alle
>landen die in hun grondwet de sharia hebben opgenomen betreft personen-recht
>door en door racistisch aangezien moslims-mannen genieten van alle rechten
>terwijl andere religies of vrouwen steevast beperkt zijn in hun rechten...
>dat is wat anders dan de aanwezigheid van racisme in landen waar 'racisme'
>opzich strafbaar is!
>
>> Racism added to xenophobia is an explosive cocktail.
>
>??? begrijpt iemand deze stelling?
Lijkt me een tautologie eerlijk gezegd.
>> Islam for Europeans is not only another average unknown
>> world; it is historically and psychologically a hostile one and a
>> dangerous one.
>
>Men zou voor minder als men weet dat de Arabieren tot in Poitiers zijn
>geraakt? Of kijken de moslims ook met veel ontzag en liefde naar de
>Mongoolse invallen?!
;-))))))
>> If we put aside the traditional protest of pacifist and leftist Europe
>> that is by no means representative of the main stream, the average
>> European citizen bought the American version of the story and looked
>> at Iraq as an empire of evil governed by a mad man plotting
>> to control the world.
>
>Kan iemand mij dan vertellen wat de Iraaqse leider dan wel is als hij 'niet'
>gestoord is of een machtswellusteling?
Een verlicht despoot ?
>Trouwens dat fenomeen van "pacifist & leftist" is in de ogen van heel wat
>moslims een bizar fenomeen, ik zou echter stellen: wees blij dat er nog
>tolerante mensen zijn, echte 'links-georiënteerden' zijn een zeldzaamheid in
>het midden-oosten.
Te links denken is ook een monisme.
>
>Wel grappig dat Dyab uitvoerig over de begin jaren '90 praat terwijl hij op
>dat moment België en waarschijnlijk ook Europa zo goed als niet kende...
Historici doen niets anders dan over toestanden te praten die ze zelf
niet hebben meegemaakt.
Hij kan zaken opgezocht hebben in de leuvense bieb of elders.
Fusti
Hugo Maes
> Merdaloor!
> Met dergelijke reacties zoals hierboven
> verlies ik verdomme mijn reputatie;-)))))
Er is wel meer nodig om die stuk te maken.
mvg, HM
De Joker ©
>>> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Wel, dat was nu eens *geen* ruis. Artikel gesaved om later te lezen.
>>
>> Dus jij kunt ons ook niet zeggen wat erin stond?
>
> Geef hem de tijd.
> het spul is lang.
Onzin. Wat zijn nou 586 regels? Hugo Maes is gewoon lui!
(J)
De Joker ©
>>> I found this quite interesting to let you read this in spite of the
>>> fact that it is quite long,
>>
>> Really? By the way, how long was it?
>
> 597 lines
Dat valt nog mee. En de eigenlijke tekst telt zelfs maar 586 regels.
Ieder belangrijk werk begint natuurlijk met een voorwoord van Fusti
en een opdracht aan sir Benjamin Collins Brodie, maar dat kunt U
gewoon overslaan!
(J)
Hugo Maes
> Onzin. Wat zijn nou 586 regels? Hugo Maes is gewoon lui!
Shit, betrapt ;-)
mvg, HM
dIVUS
> voorbijkomen (Telenet), maar met de referentie die ik terugvond in
> jouw headers, heb ik het wel kunnen oproepen. Raar.
De standaard nieuws-server van Telenet filtert alle berichten van meer dan
16 kB weg, dus ook dat van Fust. (Dat zat zelfs over de 30 denk ik)
De binaries-server laat deze wel door. Misschien dat je Outlook Express 'by
default' daarop gaat kijken als je een MessageID opgeeft ?
--
dIVUS
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 11:56:35 GMT, in littera <3DF1E653...@stop.it> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
Misschien heeft ie leesproblemen?
>
>(J)
(F)
____
Zoals eerder al vermeld organiseert ondergetekende en bovenvermelde of
-genoemde een reünie voor alle posters van goede wil, inclusief de
azijnpissers (zie http://proto_col.tripod.com/azijn.html) en de
MKSlijders (zie: http://user.online.be/icone/scn/wttkuur/wtt.htm ) in
de historische stad Brugge. Dit onder het motto "Brugges schoonheid
en de historische feiten als zovele spiegels van de hedendaagse
maatschappij"... Datum: zaterdag 14 december. Programma: Gezellig
samenzijn in Bistro-Brasserie Breugelhof, Oostmeers 128 , (schuin
tegenover het station v/d Belgische spoorwegen. Als je uit het station
komt links voor je, over de autoweg, naast hotel de Watermolen)
vanaf ± 12.30 uur: men kan daar eten en drinken tegen zeer
democratische prijzen). Ondergetekende en bovenvermelde zal er vanaf
12.30 uur zijn. Vertrek van deze locatie rond 14.00 uur voor een
historische bezoek aan de stad Brugge onder het motto "Brugges
schoonheid en de historische feiten als zovele spiegels van de
hedendaagse maatschappij"...dit onder begeleiding van ondergetekende
en bovenvernoemde die met de nodige blablabla het gebeuren zal
animeren. Dit wordt gevolgd door een oergezellig samenzijn in Herberg
Vlissinghe http://home.tiscalinet.be/caramba2000/AFvlis.htm rond ±
16.30 uur Wie de weg bijster is, belle ondergetekende op
+32-476-460887 Geen kosten noch inschrijvingsgelden, wel zelf
gedronken pinten zelf betalen en entreegeld op een locatie
(groepstarief is 1.50 euro pp f 2.50 euro pp als we het quotum voor
een groep niet halen) ter plekke te betalen. Liefst inschrijven (om te
weten of we een zaaltje in Vlissinghe moeten reserveren) bij
fusti...@xs4all.nl
...
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 11:47:04 GMT, in littera <3DF1E02E...@chello.be> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
Zeer zwaar opgelucht.
>
>mvg, HM
Fusti
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 12:22:25 GMT, in littera <3DF1EC61...@stop.it> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
;-)))))))
>
>(J)
(F)
Fusti
____
Townkraayer
Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl says...
> Vitae forma vocatur, Hugo Maes <hugo...@chello.be>, die Sat, 07 Dec
> 2002 11:47:04 GMT, in littera <3DF1E02E...@chello.be> in foro
> be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>
> >F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
> >
> >> Merdaloor!
> >> Met dergelijke reacties zoals hierboven
> >> verlies ik verdomme mijn reputatie;-)))))
> >
> >Er is wel meer nodig om die stuk te maken.
>
> Zeer zwaar opgelucht.
Waarom zeg jij de ene dag tegen Maes dat hij een te
ontgroenen klooi is en nu dat je zijn mening op prijs
stelt ? Kies je kant en stop sitting on the fence,
fustigatoire...
> Fusti
--
Rob
Hugo Maes
> Misschien heeft ie leesproblemen?
Nee maar ik ben gisterenavond uitgeweest in Bxl, en ik had geen zin om
me nog eerst door zo'n turf te worstelen.
En vanavond ook al niet. Heb de DVD "Le Fabuleux destin d'Amélie
Poulain" bekeken, prachtige en grappige film. Stond in aanbieding in de
Fnac vanmiddag (groene prijs). Van harte aanbevolen
(http://us.imdb.com/Title?0211915).
mvg, HM
Townkraayer
> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>
> > Misschien heeft ie leesproblemen?
>
Like anyone gives a fuck...Het is mijn vaste voornemen
om jou op een dag op een dusdanig ontwapenende manier
te benaderen dat je alleen maar van me kunt houden..
Vandaaag ?<
Rob
Luc Van Braekel
news:i673vu81t5q1045sj...@4ax.com...
Telenet filtert blijkbaar artikels die te lang zijn, automatisch weg.
> Goede lectuur voor in het vliegtuig..
Inderdaad, ik heb de tekst daar gelezen. Waar heb je die tekst trouwens
vandaan gehaald?
Mijn eerste conclusies:
- Jahjah is zeker geen domme kerel, beschikt over een goed analytisch en
synthetisch denkvermogen, kan gestructureerd denken en zijn gedachten
goed verwoorden. In zijn tekst staan wel nog veel fouten tegen het
Engels.
- Vele elementen van kritiek die hij op de Europese en Belgische
samenleving geeft, geldt uiteraard in het kwadraat (of nog sterker) voor
de Arabische samenlevingen.
- Dat Europa de nederlaag van de kruistochten nog niet verwerkt heeft,
lijkt mij onzin. Wie denkt daar nog aan? Niet de westerlingen, wel de
arabieren.
- Met zijn eis voor een volledig multiculturele samenleving waarbij elke
cultuur gelijke rechten heeft (o.a. erkenning van de taal als officiële
taal) kan ik niet akkoord gaan.
Luc
Scathophaga Stercoraria
>"F u s t i g a t o r" <Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
>news:i673vu81t5q1045sj...@4ax.com...
>> Vitae forma vocatur, "Luc Van Braekel" <l...@flanders.info>, die Fri,
>> 06 Dec 2002 23:15:51 GMT, in littera <HcaI9.38960$Ti2....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
>> in foro be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>> >"Hugo Maes" <hugo...@chello.be> wrote in message
>> >news:3DF0CC92...@chello.be...
>> >> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>> >> > <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
<knip>
>Mijn eerste conclusies:
>- Jahjah is zeker geen domme kerel,
Er ligt nog een wereld tussen "is zeker geen domme kerel" en "is een hoog
intelligente kerel" .... je bedoelt toch niet het laatste, hoop ik ?!
>beschikt over een goed analytisch en synthetisch denkvermogen,
>kan gestructureerd denken
Lees mijn commentaar maar eens op zijn "paper" en probeer tussen de regels door,
van de bewust door mij gekozen humoristische vorm van mijn repliek, maar eens
het bedoelde te proeven.
>en zijn gedachten goed verwoorden.
ZIJN gedachten ? Of die van zijn "indoctrinatoren" ?
>In zijn tekst staan wel nog veel fouten tegen het Engels
Hetgeen al een indicatie is van zijn ontwikkelingsniveau
.
>- Vele elementen van kritiek die hij op de Europese en Belgische
>samenleving geeft, geldt uiteraard in het kwadraat (of nog sterker) voor
>de Arabische samenlevingen.
En zeggen dus helemaal niets ......
>- Dat Europa de nederlaag van de kruistochten nog niet verwerkt heeft,
>lijkt mij onzin.
Was dat wel een nederlaag ? Lijkt me meer een gelijkspel !
> Wie denkt daar nog aan? Niet de westerlingen, wel de
>arabieren.
Precies, dus wat zegt je dat dan ..... ?
>- Met zijn eis voor een volledig multiculturele samenleving waarbij elke
>cultuur gelijke rechten heeft (o.a. erkenning van de taal als officiële
>taal) kan ik niet akkoord gaan.
ACK
Resumerend stel ik dus dat Dhr. Jahjah een gemiddelde intelligentie heeft, iets
meer dan gemiddeld ontwikkeld is, niet goed analyseert, bepaald geen vrijdenker
is maar wel voor zich heeft spreken dat hij een redelijk knap uiterlijk heeft,
een charismatische uitstraling heeft, een zekere charme vertoont, tenzij
geprovoceert ..... dus ook nog eens geen zelfbeheersing heeft. (Met referte aan
zijn verbale uitval tegen de politechef in Antwerpen tijdens de rellen)
Waarom zijn er in deze ng's zo weinig mensen die inhoudelijk zijn betoog
onderuit halen ? Doodzwijgen is ineffectief en uit de mode .......wie zwijgt
stemt toe !!
Ik, ik zwijg pas op een moment en dat is als ik in mijn kist lig !!
-
Scathophaga Stercoraria (Strontvlieg, u weet wel)
"Opdat Allah de gelovigen moge louteren en de ongelovigen vernietigen !!"
(3.141)
F u s t i g a t o r
2002 01:44:01 GMT, in littera <3DF2A456...@chello.be> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>
>> Misschien heeft ie leesproblemen?
>
>Nee maar ik ben gisterenavond uitgeweest in Bxl, en ik had geen zin om
>me nog eerst door zo'n turf te worstelen.
Mej mon sjeir,
voe voe komeitee dan seit antre de perdiesjon?
Navee voe paa peur de peirdr votr beil aam de Flaman dan seit
iemondies deu la frankofonie?
Is een bezoek aan Brugge olv van een echte Vlaming zoals
ondergetekende geen geneesmiddel tegen dat Franstalige wuft gedoe in
Brussel om je Vlaam-Brabant zieltje toch nog van de klauwen van de
Frankofone duivels te redden?(*)
>En vanavond ook al niet. Heb de DVD "Le Fabuleux destin d'Amélie
>Poulain" bekeken, prachtige en grappige film. Stond in aanbieding in de
>Fnac vanmiddag (groene prijs). Van harte aanbevolen
>(http://us.imdb.com/Title?0211915).
Ach, beati possidentes... gelukzaligen zijn de bezitters....
>mvg, HM
mnvmvdvgr, F
______
(*) Zoals eerder al vermeld organiseert ondergetekende en
F u s t i g a t o r
<townk...@donteventry.hotmail.com>, die Sun, 8 Dec 2002 03:24:33
+0100, in littera <MPG.185ccbcfe...@news.wanadoo.nl> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>In article <3DF2A456...@chello.be>, hugo...@chello.be says...
Ga je het paringsritueel van de spinnen met hem overdoen?;-)))
>Rob
Fusti
F u s t i g a t o r
Dec 2002 06:56:47 +0100, in littera
<asun5e$u159v$1...@ID-127273.news.dfncis.de> in foro be.politics (et
aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>"F u s t i g a t o r" <Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
>news:i673vu81t5q1045sj...@4ax.com...
>> Vitae forma vocatur, "Luc Van Braekel" <l...@flanders.info>, die Fri,
>> 06 Dec 2002 23:15:51 GMT, in littera
>> <HcaI9.38960$Ti2....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be> in foro be.politics (et
>> aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>
>> >
>> >"Hugo Maes" <hugo...@chello.be> wrote in message
>> >news:3DF0CC92...@chello.be...
>> >> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > <<-- Dyab Abu Jahjah speaks to you -->>
>> >>
>> >> Wel, dat was nu eens *geen* ruis. Artikel gesaved om later te
>lezen.
>> >
>> >Tiens, het oorspronkelijke artikel van Fust heb ik hier niet zijn
>voorbijkomen
>> >(Telenet), maar met de referentie die ik terugvond in jouw headers,
>heb ik het
>> >wel kunnen oproepen. Raar.
>>
>> Een kronkel van de usenetwegen, zeker?
>
>Telenet filtert blijkbaar artikels die te lang zijn, automatisch weg.
>
>> Goede lectuur voor in het vliegtuig..
>
>Inderdaad, ik heb de tekst daar gelezen. Waar heb je die tekst trouwens
>vandaan gehaald?
Van iemand die in de KU-Leuven actief is.
>
>Mijn eerste conclusies:
>- Jahjah is zeker geen domme kerel, beschikt over een goed analytisch en
>synthetisch denkvermogen, kan gestructureerd denken en zijn gedachten
>goed verwoorden. In zijn tekst staan wel nog veel fouten tegen het
>Engels.
had ik ook gemerkt.
Tja plegen wij d'er geen?
>- Vele elementen van kritiek die hij op de Europese en Belgische
>samenleving geeft, geldt uiteraard in het kwadraat (of nog sterker) voor
>de Arabische samenlevingen.
>- Dat Europa de nederlaag van de kruistochten nog niet verwerkt heeft,
>lijkt mij onzin. Wie denkt daar nog aan? Niet de westerlingen, wel de
>arabieren.
Juist. Arabieren maar ook Spanjaarden leven veel meer "in de
Geschiedenis" dan wij. Vaak merk je dat een gebeurtenis die 50 jaar
geleden geschiedde in hun ogen dezelfde actualiteit behoudt als een
gebeurtenis die 500 jaar geleden gebeurde.
>- Met zijn eis voor een volledig multiculturele samenleving waarbij elke
>cultuur gelijke rechten heeft (o.a. erkenning van de taal als officiële
>taal) kan ik niet akkoord gaan.
Wie wel?
>
>Luc
>
Fusti
F u s t i g a t o r
<townk...@donteventry.hotmail.com>, die Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:27:36
+0100, in littera <MPG.185cbe735...@news.wanadoo.nl> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>In article <r5h4vuokvtv7uvopg...@4ax.com>,
>Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl says...
>> Vitae forma vocatur, Hugo Maes <hugo...@chello.be>, die Sat, 07 Dec
>> 2002 11:47:04 GMT, in littera <3DF1E02E...@chello.be> in foro
>> be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>
>> >F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>> >
>> >> Merdaloor!
>> >> Met dergelijke reacties zoals hierboven
>> >> verlies ik verdomme mijn reputatie;-)))))
>> >
>> >Er is wel meer nodig om die stuk te maken.
>>
>> Zeer zwaar opgelucht.
>
>Waarom zeg jij de ene dag tegen Maes dat hij een te
>ontgroenen klooi is en nu dat je zijn mening op prijs
>stelt ? Kies je kant en stop sitting on the fence,
>fustigatoire...
Geen enkel mens is totaal goed of totaal slecht.
De grens tussen het goede en het slechte loopt doorheen de ziel van
ieder mens.
Unlike you heb ik nooit echt mizeries gehad met deze poster. Hij heeft
zoals iedereen wel zijn streken, maar voor de rest klaag ik niet,
ondanks ik hem toch als laatste plaatsvervanger op de lijst van de
azijnpissers heb gezet:
http://proto_col.tripod.com/azijn.html
//proto_col.tripod.com/azijn.html
Dit wegens neiging tot lichte elitaire trekjes op Usenet
Fusti
Belgicus Reservus.
"F u s t i g a t o r" <Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl> schreef in bericht
news:rqv5vu4brf3mma9pr...@4ax.com...
The blackwidow .... :-))
--
Belgicus Reservus.
> >Rob
>
>
> Fusti
F u s t i g a t o r
<belgicus.reservus[no.spam]@xs4all.nl>, die Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:10:52
+0100, in littera <3df3b624$0$11756$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl> in foro
be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>
>"F u s t i g a t o r" <Fustigator@NOT_THAT.xs4all.nl> schreef in bericht
>news:rqv5vu4brf3mma9pr...@4ax.com...
>> Vitae forma vocatur, Townkraayer
>> <townk...@donteventry.hotmail.com>, die Sun, 8 Dec 2002 03:24:33
>> +0100, in littera <MPG.185ccbcfe...@news.wanadoo.nl> in foro
>> be.politics (et aliis) vere scripsit quod sequitur:
>>
>> >In article <3DF2A456...@chello.be>, hugo...@chello.be says...
>> >> F u s t i g a t o r wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Misschien heeft ie leesproblemen?
>> >>
>> >> Nee maar ik ben gisterenavond...
>> >
>> >Like anyone gives a fuck...Het is mijn vaste voornemen
>> >om jou op een dag op een dusdanig ontwapenende manier
>> >te benaderen dat je alleen maar van me kunt houden..
>> >
>> >
>> >Vandaaag ?<
>> >
>> Ga je het paringsritueel van de spinnen met hem overdoen?;-)))
>
>The blackwidow .... :-))
Spinnen eten wie hen neukt daarna op.
Ze kunnen dus wel geneukt maar nooit verneukt worden.
Fusti
Eric Luyten
Die het van de webstek van een Egyptische krant gehaald heeft.
Dat artikel is trouwens niet nieuw en de URL werd enkele weken
geleden al op be.politics gepost.
Eric.
F u s t i g a t o r
13:23:27 GMT, in littera <atcn0f$o9u$4...@snic.vub.ac.be> in foro
dat kan.
>Dat artikel is trouwens niet nieuw en de URL werd enkele weken
>geleden al op be.politics gepost.
Heb ik ook gezien.
>
Waar is het probleem?
>Eric.
Fusti