Mt.Everest belongs to Nepal?
Gopal Dongol
This is a very interesting topic to discuss. While in the
University I happened to talk to a friend about Mt.Everest. I told him it
belongs to Nepal. To my surprise my another friend from mainland China
interupted and told me that it belongs to China. Then we started
discussing about the border problems that existed before China took over
Tibet etc. etc. From the primary school we have been taught that Mt.
Everest belongs to Nepal. Similarly my chinese friend was also taught in
the school that it belongs to China. Now who is right?
Before China took over Tibet Nepal never had to worry about the
border problem. It was almost like a "no man's land" kind of hostile
territory with very few scattered settlements and pastureland in the
high altitudinale valleys. It was a open border between Tibet and
Nepal. The actual demarcation line never existed. Later on
after China took over Tibet, Nepal had a very hard time in
settling the border dispute and one of the area was Mt. Everest.
Later on I found out that the actual demarcation line now agreed upon by
Nepal and China passes through the top of Everest which means top of
Everest belongs to Nepal and China as it is the point of demarcation
line.This means China doesn't need nepalese permission to climb Mt.
Everest from Tibetside. Likewise Nepal doesn't need chinese permission to
climb Mt.Everest from Nepal side. Is this the fact? Does anybody have a
better idea how the demarcation line goes?
ckti...@erols.com
friend is wrong. The problem of Mt. Everest controversy was solved in
1960 during the Prime MInistership of B.P. Koirala in Nepal.
Mt. Everest was disputed by China during the state visit of Chinese
Premier Zhou En-Lai in 1960. B.P. disagreed. Zhou tried to outmanoever
B.P. by asking that if it belongs to Nepal it must have its own name
suggesting that in China it is called Chomolongma(in Tibetan). It was a
very shrewed question, indeed, because Nepal had no name of its own in
Nepali. Somehow, B.P. advisor's came up with the name "Sagarmatha" and
quieted the Chinese. Zhou En-Lai then proposed to settle this
controversy by going through the historical records of expeditions. The
records showed that the climbers had taken permission from Nepal while
climbing from the southern side and from Tibet while climbing from the
northern side. As the top of the Everest is bent towards Nepal it was
decided that southern slope and the top belonged to Nepal while the
northern slope belonged to China (Tibet).
I hope this helps to understand the controversy.
Chitra Tiwari
Johan Middendorp
>Later on I found out that the actual demarcation line now agreed upon by
>Nepal and China passes through the top of Everest which means top of
>Everest belongs to Nepal and China as it is the point of demarcation
>line.This means China doesn't need nepalese permission to climb Mt.
>Everest from Tibetside. Likewise Nepal doesn't need chinese permission to
>climb Mt.Everest from Nepal side. Is this the fact? Does anybody have a
>better idea how the demarcation line goes?
>.
These are all facts.......The borderline follows the highest points
Johan
***********************************************************************
* all...@xs4all.nl: the address of Johan Middendorp & Marianne Braun *
* joh...@dds.nl
* j.midd...@nia-tno.nl *
*=====================================================================*
* "Logic takes you from A to B but imagination takes *
* you anywhere" Albert Einstein *
***********************************************************************
Angtam
ckti...@erols.com wrote:
>Gopal Dongol wrote:
>>
>> This is a very interesting topic to discuss. While in the
>> University I happened to talk to a friend about Mt.Everest. I told him it
>> belongs to Nepal. To my surprise my another friend from mainland China
>> interupted and told me that it belongs to China. Then we started
>> discussing about the border problems that existed before China took over
>> Tibet etc. etc. From the primary school we have been taught that Mt.
>> Everest belongs to Nepal. Similarly my chinese friend was also taught in
>> the school that it belongs to China. Now who is right?
>>
>> Before China took over Tibet Nepal never had to worry about the
>> border problem. It was almost like a "no man's land" kind of hostile
>> territory with very few scattered settlements and pastureland in the
>> high altitudinale valleys. It was a open border between Tibet and
>> Nepal. The actual demarcation line never existed. Later on
>> after China took over Tibet, Nepal had a very hard time in
>> settling the border dispute and one of the area was Mt. Everest.
>> Nepal and China passes through the top of Everest which means top of
>> Everest belongs to Nepal and China as it is the point of demarcation
>> line.This means China doesn't need nepalese permission to climb Mt.
>> Everest from Tibetside. Likewise Nepal doesn't need chinese permission to
>> climb Mt.Everest from Nepal side. Is this the fact? Does anybody have a
>> better idea how the demarcation line goes?
>friend is wrong. The problem of Mt. Everest controversy was solved in
>1960 during the Prime MInistership of B.P. Koirala in Nepal.
>
>Mt. Everest was disputed by China during the state visit of Chinese
>Premier Zhou En-Lai in 1960. B.P. disagreed. Zhou tried to outmanoever
>B.P. by asking that if it belongs to Nepal it must have its own name
>suggesting that in China it is called Chomolongma(in Tibetan). It was a
>very shrewed question, indeed, because Nepal had no name of its own in
>Nepali. Somehow, B.P. advisor's came up with the name "Sagarmatha" and
>quieted the Chinese. Zhou En-Lai then proposed to settle this
>controversy by going through the historical records of expeditions. The
>records showed that the climbers had taken permission from Nepal while
>climbing from the southern side and from Tibet while climbing from the
>northern side. As the top of the Everest is bent towards Nepal it was
>decided that southern slope and the top belonged to Nepal while the
>northern slope belonged to China (Tibet).
>
>I hope this helps to understand the controversy.
>
>Chitra Tiwari
Very interesting.
First of all, you say to Gopal Dongol that "Your Chinese friend is wrong"
and then go on to say that the northern slope belonged to China (Tibet).
Clarify what he is wrong at. Does China still need a permissions from
Nepal to climb Chomolungma from the northern slope?
Indeed, it was very smart of Zhou to have asked this "shrewd question" as
you mentioned. However, in my reading, those advisers in the Nepali side
do not get high marks. It is not surprising that the advisers
accompanying BP did not know what the people living in the Himalayan
range actually called the Everest. It is called Chomolungma for years
perhaps since the time they saw the snow piled up on the top.
Your saying "because Nepal had no name of its own in Nepali" is not only
full of prejudices but also shows perciptible ignorance about the ethnic
groups living in and around the Chomolungma region. May I ask, sir, which
Nepal are you referring to when you say "Nepal had no name of its
own..."? Had there been anyone in the group of advisers belonging to an
ethnic group near and dear to the Chomolungma, or if the advisers had
cared to consult the locals, this situation would not have arisen.
We should not allow a situation where a politician or an armchair
diplomat/bureaucrat during a talk could not tell you a Nepali name (yet
to be defined) for a hilltop or a village, say in Mustang or Dolpo, which
he will take as a right to (re)name it to claim it. Ask the locals if you
are so damn ignorant about it.
FYI, Chomolungma, a beautiful name, indeed,which is very much embodied
into the daily life of people living in that range. It is in their daily
worship, happiness, hardship, aspirations and above all an eternal source
of inspirations.
Tashi delek!
Shaligram Pokharel
In article <5aerf8$9...@sun.cuug.ab.ca> you write:
>From: don...@cuug.ab.ca (Gopal Dongol)
>Subject: Mt.Everest belongs to Nepal?
>Date: 1 Jan 1997 16:20:08 -0700
Dear Mr. Dongol,
To make it short,
Yes, it belonged to Nepal. but not anymore.
I think this is the condition,
King Mahendra, as a condition of supporting the Panchayati regime, signed a
friendship treaty with China. That time Tibet was already in China. Then
we revised the boarder in late seventees. China gave 'generously' some part
of land which now falls mainly in Karnali and Dhaulagiri zone. And to
return this generosity, Nepal also gave some portion of land, 'which was not
accessible for administration from Nepalese side'. Most of the land were
given in the eastern sector. With this arragement, the teritorry was
increased to 147 thousand square kilometers from 141,000. But the point is,
when Nepal gave the land, it gave the other half of Mt. Everest. Now,
Chinese say, Chomolongma is in China and we say Sagarmatha is
in Nepal. Both are right, but Mount Everest is divided. I am sure you
will get my point here. China does not say Sagarmatha is in China. The
only good part on Nepal side is, since it was discovered from the Nepalese
side and is more accessible from Nepalese side, it is more popular
as the Nepalese peak in the whole world.
Never mind, our politicians have sold Kanchanjunga too, after Sikkim's
accession to India.
This is my understanding anyway.
Yours truly
shaligram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anil Shrestha
In article <SPOKHARE.2...@SYSTEMS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>,
SPOK...@SYSTEMS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca says...
>
Wasn't there a controversy in Kapilvastu or birthplace of Buddha too? Not to
mention Mechi and a host of other places. So the next question (if the current
political situation in Nepal continues) might soon be: Does Nepal belong to
India or China or even Bhutan?
Anil
Niraj Shrestha
ckti...@erols.com wrote:
> Mt. Everest belongs to Nepal. There is no doubt about it. Your Chinese
> friend is wrong. The problem of Mt. Everest controversy was solved in
> 1960 during the Prime MInistership of B.P. Koirala in Nepal.
>
> Mt. Everest was disputed by China during the state visit of Chinese
> Premier Zhou En-Lai in 1960. B.P. disagreed. Zhou tried to outmanoever
> B.P. by asking that if it belongs to Nepal it must have its own name
> suggesting that in China it is called Chomolongma(in Tibetan). It was a
> very shrewed question, indeed, because Nepal had no name of its own in
> Nepali. Somehow, B.P. advisor's came up with the name "Sagarmatha" and
> quieted the Chinese. Zhou En-Lai then proposed to settle this
> controversy by going through the historical records of expeditions. The
> records showed that the climbers had taken permission from Nepal while
> climbing from the southern side and from Tibet while climbing from the
> northern side. As the top of the Everest is bent towards Nepal it was
> decided that southern slope and the top belonged to Nepal while the
> northern slope belonged to China (Tibet).
>
> I hope this helps to understand the controversy.
>
> Chitra Tiwari
From what I understand, the name Sagarmatha, was given by historian
Baburam Bhattarai,
and not in a whim by one of the advisors of B. P. Koirala. In any case,
it is common
knowledge that northern half of Everest belongs to Tibet/China. Although
Mt. Everest
was first succesfully climbed from the Southern (Nepali) side, the first
attempts
were made from the northern (Tibetan)side with the permission of the
then Dalai Lama,
Nepal being a closed country then. As Tibet is now a part of China (at
least technically),
it is only logical that China would claim the northern part of Everest.
Niraj
ckti...@erols.com
The historian who coined "Sagarmatha" was not Baburam Bhattarai. He was
Bal Chandra Sharma whose opinion was entertained by Nepali authorities
during the Mt. Everest controversy with China.
ckti...@erols.com
> >friend is wrong. The problem of Mt. Everest controversy was solved in
> >1960 during the Prime MInistership of B.P. Koirala in Nepal.
> >
> >Mt. Everest was disputed by China during the state visit of Chinese
> >Premier Zhou En-Lai in 1960. B.P. disagreed. Zhou tried to outmanoever
> >B.P. by asking that if it belongs to Nepal it must have its own name
> >suggesting that in China it is called Chomolongma(in Tibetan). It was a
> >very shrewed question, indeed, because Nepal had no name of its own in
> >Nepali. Somehow, B.P. advisor's came up with the name "Sagarmatha" and
> >quieted the Chinese. Zhou En-Lai then proposed to settle this
> >controversy by going through the historical records of expeditions. The
> >records showed that the climbers had taken permission from Nepal while
> >climbing from the southern side and from Tibet while climbing from the
> >northern side. As the top of the Everest is bent towards Nepal it was
> >decided that southern slope and the top belonged to Nepal while the
> >northern slope belonged to China (Tibet).
> >
> >I hope this helps to understand the controversy.
> >
> >Chitra Tiwari
>
>
> First of all, you say to Gopal Dongol that "Your Chinese friend is wrong"
> Clarify what he is wrong at. Does China still need a permissions from
> Nepal to climb Chomolungma from the northern slope?
>
> Indeed, it was very smart of Zhou to have asked this "shrewd question" as
> you mentioned. However, in my reading, those advisers in the Nepali side
> do not get high marks. It is not surprising that the advisers
> accompanying BP did not know what the people living in the Himalayan
> range actually called the Everest. It is called Chomolungma for years
> perhaps since the time they saw the snow piled up on the top.
>
> Your saying "because Nepal had no name of its own in Nepali" is not only
> full of prejudices but also shows perciptible ignorance about the ethnic
> groups living in and around the Chomolungma region. May I ask, sir, which
> own..."? Had there been anyone in the group of advisers belonging to an
> ethnic group near and dear to the Chomolungma, or if the advisers had
> cared to consult the locals, this situation would not have arisen.
>
> We should not allow a situation where a politician or an armchair
> diplomat/bureaucrat during a talk could not tell you a Nepali name (yet
> to be defined) for a hilltop or a village, say in Mustang or Dolpo, which
> he will take as a right to (re)name it to claim it. Ask the locals if you
> are so damn ignorant about it.
>
> FYI, Chomolungma, a beautiful name, indeed,which is very much embodied
> into the daily life of people living in that range. It is in their daily
> worship, happiness, hardship, aspirations and above all an eternal source
> of inspirations.
>
> Tashi delek!
Dongol's Chinese friend is wrong in that he claimed Mt. Everest entirely
for China. I am not doing that. The 1960 Nepal-China border Treaty
clearly gives Northern slope to China while the top (the head) of the
Mt. Everest along with the southern slopes belongs to Nepal. I think, I
am not sure, the principle of "watershed" was applied while demarcating
the actual line of control.
When you have head and half of the body who has more share over it?
I do not have any prejudices against any ethnic groups nor do I have any
therapy for your ethnicity related emotions. I am just trying to put the
facts on the table.
Dig Tamang
>Dongol's Chinese friend is wrong in that he claimed Mt. Everest entirely
>for China. I am not doing that. The 1960 Nepal-China border Treaty
>clearly gives Northern slope to China while the top (the head) of the
>Mt. Everest along with the southern slopes belongs to Nepal. I think, I
>am not sure, the principle of "watershed" was applied while demarcating
>the actual line of control.
>
>When you have head and half of the body who has more share over it?
>
>I do not have any prejudices against any ethnic groups nor do I have any
>therapy for your ethnicity related emotions. I am just trying to put the
>facts on the table.
>
My dear respectful friends,
the problem had already been solved by late
King Mahendra and then chinese leader, if some inocent friend aks just
ignor it. I thought before sir George Everest sagarmatha was not
known by the local people, the simple thing they did not know the exatct
hieghts of Mount Everest. When Sir George Everes began surveyed from
1830 to 1843 who fist recoreded the location and hiehgt of the Mount
everest. I am prety sure so many expedition team treid to claimb the
mount Everest but they could not succeeed,when the Bristish Expedition
Team request the permission to then Nepal Sarkar and granted permission
from the Nepal Sarkar,On May 29,1953 sir edmond Hillary a New Zealande4r
and late Tnxing Norkay a Nepaliese Sherpa quide successfully blimbed
first time the Monut Everest. I heard that lokcal people wrote a sosng
"Hamro Tenzing Sherpale Chadyo Himal Chuchura" how great it was.
I am a Tamang, by born a Buddhist, learned how to worshipped and respect
to other frinds,knew some of the the local fact of Himalaya. In Tamang
language, Himals are called Joma,Lung is called Chuchura, whole Himalyay
region called Jyomalung, Earth is call Jampulling and Sky is called
Namkailing and I don't know how the Rai, Limbu called the himaly.
Dig Tamang
>Dongol's Chinese friend is wrong in that he claimed Mt. Everest entirely
>for China. I am not doing that. The 1960 Nepal-China border Treaty
>clearly gives Northern slope to China while the top (the head) of the
>Mt. Everest along with the southern slopes belongs to Nepal. I think, I
>am not sure, the principle of "watershed" was applied while demarcating
>the actual line of control.
>
>When you have head and half of the body who has more share over it?
>
>I do not have any prejudices against any ethnic groups nor do I have any
>therapy for your ethnicity related emotions. I am just trying to put the
>facts on the table.
>
Dig Tamang
Dig Tamang
Dig Tamang
Dig Tamang
Dig Tamang
Dig Tamang
Dig Tamang
>Dongol's Chinese friend is wrong in that he claimed Mt. Everest entirely
>for China. I am not doing that. The 1960 Nepal-China border Treaty
>clearly gives Northern slope to China while the top (the head) of the
>Mt. Everest along with the southern slopes belongs to Nepal. I think, I
>am not sure, the principle of "watershed" was applied while demarcating
>the actual line of control.
>
>When you have head and half of the body who has more share over it?
>
>I do not have any prejudices against any ethnic groups nor do I have any
>therapy for your ethnicity related emotions. I am just trying to put the
>facts on the table.
>
My dear respectful friends,
The border dispute of Mount Everest between China and Nepal was
solved by late king Mahendra and the then Chinese Leader.
Prior to Sir George Everest's survey of Sagarmatha from 1830 to 1843, not
many people were aware of Sagarmatha. Sir George Everest was the first
person who recorded the height and location of the mountain. He found that
the height was 8848meter (29028)feet and was located in Nepal. Thereafter
the mountain was called Mt. Everest in honor of Sir George Everest.
Since Everest's discovery many expedition teams tried to climb Mount
Everest but they were unsuccessful.
When the Bristish Expedition Team requested for the Neaplese government's
permission to climb Mount Everest,the Nepalese Government granted their
request. On May 29,1953, Sir Edmund Hillary, a New Zealander
and late Tenzing Norgay, a Nepaliese Sherpa guide became the first people
to successfully set their feet on top of Mount Everest.
I heard that the local people wrote a song
on behalf of Tenzing Sherpa.("Hamro Tenzing Sherpale Chadyo Himal
Chuchura").
Being a Tamang I am aware of some of the facts concerning the name of the
Mount Everest. In Tamang language, Himalayas are called Jyoma and the
"Chuchura" are called Lung, hence the name Jyomalung.
D.B. Tamang