Read RAZA! _Justice: A question of race_

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Msedano

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
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I invite you to join me in reading and discussing Roberto Rodriguez' _Justice :
A Question of Race_, Tempe AZ: Bilingual Press/Editorial Bilinuge, 1997.

Rodriguez presents what may be one of the more important works of chicano
nonfiction in this story of police brutality and the long, slow machinations of
US justice as he takes his case through the courts in a 270 page work that you
deserve to read, raza and fellow SCMAers.

Rodriguez, a journalist, witnesses LA County Sheriffs beating a chicano victim
on Whittier Blvd. Taking photos of this crime, the deputies turn on Rodriguez,
administering a taste of what they'd just given their first victim. After
beating his head and torso with billy clubs, the cops arrest Rodriguez for
assault on the deputies! The 1st Amendment my ass, they say!

The book traces Rodriguez' quest for justice, first fighting the spurious
charges, then his lawsuit against the Blockheads after the ridiculous charges
are thrown out.

How would you feel if you knew the cops were looking for you to avenge
themselves for having embarassed them in this fashion? Rodriguez is so paranoid
he drives with one eye out for the bubble gum lights, the other on the road
ahead, fearful of being pulled over, recognized , and paying for his contempt
of cop with another beating, more trumped up charges, or perhaps a bullet in
the forehead. This being shortly after the police riots in 1969, Rodriguez'
fears were well-grounded then.

Is justice still a matter of race?
Is "contempt of cop" still a capital crime?
Does the 1st Amendment really apply when you catch cops in the act?

Rodriguez, who with Patsy Gonzales, writes the only chicano column in US media
today, tells a story every reader of SCMA needs to read.

So hie thee to a local libreria and pick up a copy of _Justice: A question of
race_ by Roberto Rodriguez; if your bookstore doesn't sell Bilingual Press
books, they can order it readily for you.

Let's make this book our opportunity to take back our space here at SCMA with a
thoughtful, worthwhile discussion of one of today's most important topics, and
one of last year's most important chicano books.

Que te parece, raza?

atentamente, mvs
--
Michael Sedano
--
mse...@aol.com
c/s

LatinoBeat

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
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Msedano writes:

>Rodriguez, who with Patsy Gonzales, writes the only chicano column in US
>media
>today, tells a story every reader of SCMA needs to read.

This is incorrect, there are many Chicano columnist today.... including New
York Times syndicated Raoul Lowery Contreras, Raul Naverette, Roberto Rodriguez
of the the Dallas Morning News and Society of Professional Journalist's
award-winning Columnist/Journalist Isaac Cubillos of Pacifica News Online.


J. Manuel Urrutia

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Jan 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/19/98
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Msedano wrote:
>
> I invite you to join me in reading and discussing Roberto Rodriguez' _Justice :
> A Question of Race_, Tempe AZ: Bilingual Press/Editorial Bilinuge, 1997.
SNIP...

> Let's make this book our opportunity to take back our space here at SCMA with a
> thoughtful, worthwhile discussion of one of today's most important topics, and
> one of last year's most important chicano books.
>
> Que te parece, raza?

Alrigth, alright, I'll read it once I am done with "Underworld," by
Delillo.

Since you are the one who made the provocative post, I'll let you answer
whoever it is that is promoting my "former friend known as Isaac," whom
we haven't heard from in these parts lately. (On a related note, he was
supposed to publish an article chronicling the efforts of bilingual
education defenders, but when I looked for it, it was not at their site.
Wonder what happened?)

And yes, there are plenty of things to talk about (I suppose that my
last posts fell through the cracks at your friendly news server). Stay
tuned.

--
* J. Manuel Urrutia | En tierra de ciegos, *
* urrutia...@ucla.edu | el tuerto es rey *

Msedano

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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Ese Latinobeat, stand and be counted en propria persona, ie, who the heck is
this person who writes the contrary view below? Is "latinobeat" a person? a
chicano autoerotic? a chicano kerouac? Speak for yourself, vato / a (is there a
vata, if there is a vato? quien sabe) Dang, I don't care much for unsigned
anonymity, do I?

I believe the Dallas Roberto Rodriguez may be one in the same Roberto Rodriguez
whose work I extol in my initial post. Looks like the Dalls paper has the LA
Times beat all to Hell since the LA paper (sister rag to the dallas, no?)
prints the recommended RR irregularly.

My point is not that there aren't other latinas latinos writing today but that
Rodriguez and Gonzales' voices are, to me, the only authentically chicano
voices out there right now. Risk takers, focus on important and unpopular
issues and views that anglo editors disparage and krypto racistly refuse
publication.

Here's a nit or two to pick:
"Raoul"? now there's a fine chicano name. Now I've met many a Raul, where'd
that funny extra "o" come in? "Naverette" must be a misspelling, que no? as in
"Navarette", and I hope this isn't the Harvard chicano from Lemoore or some
little weed patch in the central valley who hasn't yet found a chicano voice
but the la times' editors love his voice Navarette, is it?

The point of my post is to invite your reading and discussion of Roberto
Rodriguez' book, _Justice: A question of race_ (1997: Bilingual Press /
Editorial Bilingue). So what have Raoul and Raul written? and this Roberto R.
if a different dude?

Isaac, readers of SCMA know well, takes a middle of the road, "I'm only being
fair" mealy-mouthed position most of the time. Well, Isaac may indeed be a
thoughtful journalist upholding the values of the Soc of Prof Journalists, but
is this anglo organization something to brag on, or does this mark the writer's
character as less chicano-style risk-taking and more an "establishment"
pleasing punch puller?

Latinobeat, whomever you be (how's that for good grammar, you prescriptivists),
and the rest of us, please let's do some reading and discussing. It's a fatuous
claim that the added names are chicano -- with no proof. Read _Justice_ and put
some substance into your claim or knock me on my pompous ass. Or, cite the
publications of these others candidates and let's delve deeply into the idea of
what make a writer "chicano".

Here, for instance, is evidence that Latino beat is no chicano of mine, from
aol's member directory:

Member Name: Latino Beat staff member
Location: San Diego
Personal Quote: This is Latino Beat at Digital City San Diego.
Providing Hispanic news content online.

Que chingao es "hispanic"?

atentamente, mvs

latin...@aol.com (LatinoBeat) writes:
****Msedano writes:

*******
I should mention, modestly, of course, that yours truly is an award-winning
photojournalist (circa 1974), award-winning academician (1990), and almost a
Nobel Piece Prize winner, but Debbie Nobel dumped me before I had the chance.

LatinoBeat

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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Responding to msSedano:

You view is well taken.... However it was not a contrarian view but to indicate
there are other Chicano writers out there... maybe you would prefer the
California Chicano Media Association and them giving their top award to a
Peruvian, and public service award to the Border Patrol...

You should send less time being hung up on labels "Hispanic" and read the pages
of Latino Beat ... we're puro chicano...

LatinoBeat

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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MSedano wrote:

>Ese Latinobeat, stand and be counted en propria persona, ie, who the heck is
>this person who writes the contrary view below? Is "latinobeat" a person? a
>chicano autoerotic? a chicano kerouac? Speak for yourself, vato / a (is there
>a
>vata, if there is a vato? quien sabe) Dang, I don't care much for unsigned
>anonymity, do I?

Just call us Hank Reyna

J. Manuel Urrutia

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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Just my two cents (and that is exactly what they are worth)...

LatinoBeat wrote:
>
> Responding to msSedano:
>
> You view is well taken.... However it was not a contrarian view but to indicate
> there are other Chicano writers out there... maybe you would prefer the
> California Chicano Media Association and them giving their top award to a
> Peruvian, and public service award to the Border Patrol...

There are vencidos en todas partes.

>
> You should send less time being hung up on labels "Hispanic" and read the pages
> of Latino Beat ... we're puro chicano...

You could have fooled me. You have given a very nice bully pulpit to
Douglas Lasken, one of the pushers of "Three Strikes for the Children."
If any of the lurkers here don't believe me, all they have to do is go
to the following URLs:

http://www.electriciti.com/pacifica/html/biling0119.html

And for Mr. Lasken's original thoughs, check out:

http://www.onenation.org/yslasken.html

http://www.onenation.org/yslasken2.html

Why wasn't he fully identified?

In fairness, though, thank you for having Mr. Martinez thoughts on this
issue (http://www.electriciti.com/pacifica/html/martinez0102.html).

BTW, the position of your predecessor (or is he still in your
organization?) is nicely quoted in the OneNation site (catchy title, uh?
what are Chicanos, a fifth column?) at:

http://www.onenation.org/ysmunoz.html

Ah, politics does make for strange bedfellows.

And I have heard about Hank Reyna. And you are no Hank Reyna...

LatinoBeat

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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MSedano writes:
>Well, Isaac may indeed be a
>thoughtful journalist upholding the values of the Soc of Prof Journalists, but
is this anglo organization something to brag on, or does this mark the
writer's...

We won't portend to defend Isaac, he can do that for himself, since he's a
regular reader to this NG.

However, his awards were for exposing racism against Chicanos by the public
defenders' office in San Diego. White power broker-lawyers would not hire
qualified Chicanos whose names had "too many vowels" or that their names ended
in "o, ez or a."

Another of his awards was for exposing the prison's abuses against Chicano
prisoners at Pelican Bay State prison. We give credit to Isaac who is the past
vice president of the Prisoners' Rights Union and is still their national
spokesperson.

He founded in San Diego a rehabilitation program (including offering housing)
for Chicano ex-cons so they could put their lives back together and
reintegrate back into society and with their families. Each year, He holds an
annual fund-raiser to entice 'gringo' money to help purchase food, clothing and
toys for children of Chicano prisoners. He started a scholarship for Chicano
youth who have been to the youth authority. Two of them are now graduating from
SDSU on these scholarships... they've only condition that Isaac places on the
graduates are to return to the barrios of San Diego for one year to work in
social programs benefiting Chicano children and the elderly.

As most of us are veterans, we are especially proud of his contribution for a
year-long series of stories on Chicano WWII veterans. He was honored by the
Chicano VFW, and the American Legion.

Last year he was recognized for formulating the idea and urging the San Diego
County Board of Education to start an arts academy for Chicano students The
arts academy opened with performing arts and this year will extend to fine arts
and music.. This year the board is working on another of his ideas to implement
a math and science academy for talented Chicano students ... he is on the
steering committee of the Latino Coalition for education.

Go ahead and scoff if you want on his "chicanismo" or "his middle-of-the road"
politics (which you have no idea what they are, for if you did, you'd know they
don't come anymore liberal than he). We think he's doing a lot on his own to
help the Chicano community both in his writing, and his deeds. Oh, and BTW, he
refused to enter the award ceremony by the Chicano Media Association because of
wanting to give an award to the Border Patrol.

nuff said.

Isaac Cubillos

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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J. Manuel Urrutia wrote:

> Since you are the one who made the provocative post, I'll let you answer
> whoever it is that is promoting my "former friend known as Isaac," whom
> we haven't heard from in these parts lately. (On a related note, he was
> supposed to publish an article chronicling the efforts of bilingual
> education defenders, but when I looked for it, it was not at their site.
> Wonder what happened?)

To My Everlasting Good Friend, Manuel.... I do recall a while back the
thread, but not the specifics.... I believe if you go to the
Education section of Latino Beat's site
(http://www.electriciti.com/pacifica) you'll find a myriad of authors
for and against the initiative...

Additionally, I just had incorporated into the education section the
website for the San Diego Latino Coalition on Education... there's some
material in the South Bay's page.

In the Editorial Section, you'll find commentaries as well, and I
heartedly welcome you to submit... it's important now that the intiative
has qualified for the June ballot.

I also humbly apologize for my overenthusiastic supporters at Latino
Beat for their recent flurry of postings.... I'm suprisingly embarrassed
for their comments on my other activities, but thank thank them for
plugging the rehab program and arts/math/science academies.... Those, I
believe are programs that should be recognized instead of myself...

Good seeing you Manuel, it's been a while.

J. Manuel Urrutia

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Jan 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/20/98
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LatinoBeat wrote:
>
> MSedano writes:
> >Well, Isaac may indeed be a
> >thoughtful journalist upholding the values of the Soc of Prof Journalists, but
> is this anglo organization something to brag on, or does this mark the
> writer's...
>
SNIP...

> Go ahead and scoff if you want on his "chicanismo" or "his middle-of-the road"
> politics (which you have no idea what they are, for if you did, you'd know they
> don't come anymore liberal than he). We think he's doing a lot on his own to
> help the Chicano community both in his writing, and his deeds. Oh, and BTW, he
> refused to enter the award ceremony by the Chicano Media Association because of
> wanting to give an award to the Border Patrol.

Well, I'll be ddip in...

If he is as good as you say he is, why was he always giving us the "I
just report them" line in here, where he is not supposed to be working
anyway? That is, if he is such a progressive, he must be known to be
one. So why did he used to basically refuse to present his viewpoint and
instead kept presenting the contrarian point of view? Is this a hobby of
his?

Mind you, you (or him) don't need to explain anything. But that is the
persona that he projected here.

Msedano

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Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
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I admire what Isaac does in his private time to benefit pintos and veterans,
and hope his dad is doing well after the illness that Isaac helped nurse and so
preoccupied his attention. I acknowledge the good Isaac does.

I apologize if you think my scoffing out of place, based upon the background
Hank presents. This doesn't, however, mitigate the stance Isaac adopts on the
SCMA airwaves, which is middle road let's acknowledge truth on both sides. If
that's what I'm looking for, I'll join the Rotary Club and subscribe to the
4-way test.

Ethnic politics is bias, you gotta draw a line and take a stand on one side or
the other. A chicano mugwump (mug on one side of the border, wump on the other)
is still a mugwump. However much good one privately does, one's words bespeak
the mind behind the person.

The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft enterr'd with their bones.

My complaint about Isaac's writing is his refusal to engage us. Instead he, or
perhaps it's Hank here, simply posts a referral to read his website (my abject
apologies to Isaac if I'm pissed at him for what LatinoBeat is doing!). Back a
few months ago, Isaac did engage the bilingual debate and contributed some
outstanding ideas and analysis. If I scoff, consider that a goad to draw his
words and thoughts to these pages here, these readers here, now. Ditto Hank
LatinoBeat Reyna.

I hereby award Isaac Cubillos the Sedano Award for Chicano Community Service,
Dago Chapter, and ask him now to put his words where his supporters "Call Us
Hank Reyna" claim for his heart.

Now, the original point was to invite readers to get hold of, read, analyze,
and discuss here Roberto Rodriguez' _Justice: A Question of Race (Tempe, AZ:
Bilngual Press, Editorial Bilngue, 1997)._ That Hank Reyna has chosen to
divagate by denying that RR and Patricia Gonzales are the most chicano of
columnists is a bit of subversion on Reyna/LatinoBeat's part. You suckered me,
Hank, but it's been diverting.

Ese , esa, esos, esas: get with the program. Read the darn book and prove your
point in discussion of the book and the writer's stance! Time to put your mind
to work.

Que te parece?

Hank Reyna, a corporate author / persona of LatinoBeat ("we") notes:


Go ahead and scoff if you want on his "chicanismo" or "his middle-of-the road"
politics (which you have no idea what they are, for if you did, you'd know they
don't come anymore liberal than he). We think he's doing a lot on his own to
help the Chicano community both in his writing, and his deeds. Oh, and BTW, he
refused to enter the award ceremony by the Chicano Media Association because of
wanting to give an award to the Border Patrol.

nuff said.

Msedano

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Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
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Why would anyone choose to define their accomplishments by dint of some pinche
award? Who gives a flying copula what the CaChicMediaASS does?

Be true to yourself, that's one Credo Chicano I subscribe to. I believe
anonymity denies this value. What's your name, vato?

What's wrong with Peruvians? Remember that gavacho in _Zoot Suit_? The pig,
pardon me, police officer asks, "what are you doing with these greasers, a good
looking white boy like you?" and the kid declares, "Fuck you, I'm Chicano,
too!" so he rotted with his brother beaners in San Quintin.

Hank Reya AKA LatinoBeat, the voice of hispanic amerika in LatinoBeat's own
words (bio on AOL) notes:


maybe you would prefer the
California Chicano Media Association and them giving their top award to a
Peruvian, and public service award to the Border Patrol...

LatinoBeat

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Jan 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/21/98
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MSedano wrote:

>What's wrong with Peruvians?

Absolutely nothing....

You're the one that raised the spector of the word "Hispanic" and you made your
point about "Chicano."

I mentioned that a Chicano group gave an award to a Peruvian, who does not meet
your parameters.... This is way off topic and need not be answered... the
conversation began with Chicano columnists... you mentioned two and we added to
the list.

Suffice it to say there are many more who are just as good as all those
mentioned, they just don't get the exposure because of where they work...
usually in small community newspapers.

They are really rocking the boats and their papers should be supported.

*La...@sizzling.com

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Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
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In article <19980121051...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mse...@aol.com (Msedano) wrote:


>The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft enterr'd with their bones.

A quote from my favorite Chicano, Memo Shakespeare!

Laura

*********************************************************************
Get rid of the asteriks in my name to send me e-mail.

http://www.sonic.net/~mayangrl/
http://www.northcoast.com/~gowing
*********************************************************************

J. Manuel Urrutia

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Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
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Isaac Cubillos wrote:
>
SNIP...

> To My Everlasting Good Friend, Manuel.... I do recall a while back the
> thread, but not the specifics.... I believe if you go to the
> Education section of Latino Beat's site
> (http://www.electriciti.com/pacifica) you'll find a myriad of authors
> for and against the initiative...

I have, from time to time, stopped by. The one I am referring to is the
one of which you sent me the rough draft. Then again, I can understand
that with so many projects, it fell through the cracks.

> Additionally, I just had incorporated into the education section the
> website for the San Diego Latino Coalition on Education... there's some
> material in the South Bay's page.
>
> In the Editorial Section, you'll find commentaries as well, and I
> heartedly welcome you to submit... it's important now that the intiative
> has qualified for the June ballot.

Thank you. I'll think about it and I'll pass the word around. Is the
submission info there, too?

> I also humbly apologize for my overenthusiastic supporters at Latino
> Beat for their recent flurry of postings.... I'm suprisingly embarrassed
> for their comments on my other activities, but thank thank them for
> plugging the rehab program and arts/math/science academies.... Those, I
> believe are programs that should be recognized instead of myself...

Indeed. Programs should not be tied to their originators. They should
become ther own creatures so that they can live on.

J. Manuel Urrutia

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Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
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*Laura*@sizzling.com wrote:
>
> In article <19980121051...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> mse...@aol.com (Msedano) wrote:
>
> >The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft enterr'd with their bones.
>
> A quote from my favorite Chicano, Memo Shakespeare!

I thought it was Memo Sacude-lanzas!

Que no? :-)

J. Manuel Urrutia

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Jan 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/22/98
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LatinoBeat wrote:
SNIP...

> Suffice it to say there are many more who are just as good as all those
> mentioned, they just don't get the exposure because of where they work...
> usually in small community newspapers.
>
> They are really rocking the boats and their papers should be supported.

Give them their personal Web pages. Have them participate in this
newsgroup and the Web chatboards. Include their Web addresses in their
signature file. If they are good, then their work will be known and
supported. So quit bellyaching and do something imaginative and
proactive. Gotta think ouside of the box...

And don't tell me that Isaac has done that. His participation could have
been more energetic, which would then have send readers to your Web
pages. But didn't. He can still do that, you know...

*La...@sizzling.com

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Jan 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/23/98
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In article <34C7C0...@ucla.edu>, "J. Manuel Urrutia"
<urrutia...@ucla.edu> wrote:

>*Laura*@sizzling.com wrote:
>>
>> In article <19980121051...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>> mse...@aol.com (Msedano) wrote:
>>
>> >The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft enterr'd with their bones.
>>
>> A quote from my favorite Chicano, Memo Shakespeare!
>
>I thought it was Memo Sacude-lanzas!
>
>Que no? :-)

Or Memo Xeksper. He was an indio.

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