Re: Malays are lazy, stupid and uncivilized
Pan
[snip]
What does it show about you that you wasted time trolling?
Michael
If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.
azura a.n.
> Lazy:
> -----
> Always hang around in shopping centres after school during schooldays
> or skip classes. Whistling at girls or playing football instead of
> studying.
Well, partially true. But I would not say it is exclusive to Malays.
And you really need to consider the origin of the problem not just the result.
Malay in majority comes from kampungs w/o much of cultural background like Chinese
or Indians. Our culture was incomparably simpler. More of a tribal life while
the other ethnic groups has been blooming in many aspects of life.
Architecture, food, social dynamic and over all development.
We can't escape the fact that civilization was introduce to us and we did not go
along the learning curve like Romans , Chinese and others went through.
I believe it's pretty obvious looking at our heritage, a Long House and a Kite ?
Well , there is some more but in general really not much.
The gov. supposed to educate us instead they made Bumiputra privileges so we feel
special and have this false impression like being taking care off but we never get
the real stuff like a decent education.
You think it's because we don't have the capacity to handle it ? No , because simple
minded person take all the shit government give w/o complaining as we don't know
any better.
Now , something obvious and natural to you might not be the very same for others.
If my father told that bombing was good ever since I was born , I would grow with it
and probably be by now on my way to join Hamas.
It's not that we are bad people you know. We just have not been told better.
> When they come out to work for the government, they work very slowly
> like a snail and without any stress. They like to work for government
> offices where the working hours are short.
Agree, gov. work is easy and convenient. But fact is that I'm less likely to get
job for Chinese who lead majority of the large companies in here.
Gov. made sure we won't be too united by making this full of shit Bumiputra laws.
Turn each to care of their own and we left with the lame gov. which again i repeat
has no interest make us too independent.
You really believe that we do all this by choice ?
By the way , working hours are not up to us you know :)
> Stupid:
> ------
> Their scores in secondary and university subjects are very low. They
> talk very slowly and know only one language (malay).
> They have trouble learning science, maths or other advanced topics.
> They cannot learn independently and must have a tutor to spoon-feed
> them.
I don't really want to comment on the above, i think you really have been
unfair and driven by some beef to Malays rather than try to make a solid
argument.
I never had problem with science, nor do I remember any of my friends.
And I soooo did not have a tutor.
> Uncivilized:
> -----------
> Whenever, their so-called rights are threatened, they would resort to
> violence. They want to become millionaire without working hard or
> displaying true intelligence.
> Most young malays like to go through red traffic lights and speed
> without regards to others safety.
I hardly find relation between 'uncivilized', 'intelligence' and
'red light'.
You sound like you try to make more points but run out of ideas.
Am I right ?
The 'Rights' thing, well not like we ask to be Bumis you know. Some moron decided
and if you had the balls to stand up against it , it would not end like that.
I blame you for not doing your part and just settle with what they decided.
Nice for a citizen of the country. Because of people like you I'm now
the damn Bumiputra. I'm a living sample of legal racism. You totally in fault and I blame
you for it along with the gov. Thank You !!!
> They would bomb people (americans, australians) who they think are
> being unjust to the muslims. But they themselves can be unjust to the
> non-malays in malaysia and indonesia.
Right , all the suicide bombers are Malay. You confused again. But that's ok,
Malay, Muslim, Terrorists. It's common for these who don't know much to generalize like that.
Let me go back to the first paragraph of your post. The education play major role
in shaping minds. Again I like to press that people who don't know better simply follow
what they hear. The propaganda does not help either. We don't publish much of the good pictures
from Afghanistan or Iraq. Usually blown children and suffering people. Never the happy women
who open their business, women which attend schools , going to doctor and stuff like that.
We also did not say much when Taliban was killing our brothers and none of us went
in front of the Afghan embassy to protest. Why ? Not because we did not care, or because
we so uncivilized , it's because the gov. choose what we suppose to know and they press on
subject they want us to hear about.
News is not coincident. It's a Public Relations manuals. When Anwar problems started and
demonstrations appeared, the first thing they did was to increase number of images showing
violence overseas. So we assumed it was pretty normal. Don't blame the ordinary mortal for the
country's head politics and dirty games. Instead of watching from the side and nagging , do
something to help make some difference.
> They cause racial riots in indonesia (1998) and malaysia (1969) when
> the economy is poor or when they cannot compete with others.
> Always blaming other races for their own laziness and incompetence.
> Never blame their own self, a typical uncivilized person.
You know, there is lots of stuff that happen around the world. Not just here.
In the very same year , violence in Northern Ireland, First 747 Flight,
Clashes on Soviet Chinese Border, War Fought Between Honduras and El Salvador,
Apollo 11, War of Attrition, US and Japan Agree on the Return of Okinawa
and lots and lots more.
When I take taxi because I don't want to drive short distance from office to another office
i'm never asked for more money from Malay drivers. Usually from Chinese.
Indians don't ask at all, they just try to cheat me (and i don't make stories).
7 our of 10 have tempered with meter. I take the same trip on regular bases and I know the
price yet most of the time it's get close to double. Talking more of uncivilized ,
isn't the majority of illegal trade lead by Chinese ? I mean like bookie , pirating goods which is
nothing but ordinary theft. Or Shark Loans ? Don't forget too look when you drive next time who
throw rubbish out the window while driving....
I can go on and on, on each of us but it's apparent that you only see as far as the
end of your shoes which means that even the donkey has more perspective on things than you.
Sorry
regards
Azura
One who did not have TUTOR
Pan
wrote:
>
>> Lazy:
>> -----
>> Always hang around in shopping centres after school during schooldays
>> or skip classes. Whistling at girls or playing football instead of
>> studying.
>
>Well, partially true. But I would not say it is exclusive to Malays.
>And you really need to consider the origin of the problem not just the result.
>Malay in majority comes from kampungs w/o much of cultural background like Chinese
>or Indians. Our culture was incomparably simpler. More of a tribal life while
>the other ethnic groups has been blooming in many aspects of life.
>Architecture, food, social dynamic and over all development.
>We can't escape the fact that civilization was introduce to us and we did not go
>along the learning curve like Romans , Chinese and others went through.
>I believe it's pretty obvious looking at our heritage, a Long House and a Kite ?
[snip]
Azura, I'm surprised you gave a thoughtful answer to this idiot. But
where did you come from where your heritage was a longhouse? I thought
that was mainly among the Iban in Sarawak.
Best,
Jack.
carelessly. He's lucky Azura was accomodating and had the great patience to
explain away his disgruntlement.
pluto
"
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:45:04 +0800, "azura a.n." <azuraan@streamyx>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>> Lazy:
>>> -----
>>> Always hang around in shopping centres after school during schooldays
>>> or skip classes. Whistling at girls or playing football instead of
>>> studying.
>>
>>Well, partially true. But I would not say it is exclusive to Malays.
>>And you really need to consider the origin of the problem not just the result.
>>Malay in majority comes from kampungs w/o much of cultural background like Chinese
>>or Indians. Our culture was incomparably simpler. More of a tribal life while
>>the other ethnic groups has been blooming in many aspects of life.
>>Architecture, food, social dynamic and over all development.
>>We can't escape the fact that civilization was introduce to us and we did not go
>>along the learning curve like Romans , Chinese and others went through.
>>I believe it's pretty obvious looking at our heritage, a Long House and a Kite ?
>[snip]
>
>Azura, I'm surprised you gave a thoughtful answer to this idiot.
yea, a fair balanced reverse thrust,
nok main chator , doh? ;-)))
> But
>where did you come from where your heritage was a longhouse?
i think she is giving an aliteration ;-)))
she could easily use
rumah rakit k treng ... doh LOL
> I thought
>that was mainly among the Iban in Sarawak.
i have a strange feeling that azura is marina M
Pan
[snip]
>i have a strange feeling that azura is marina M
No way! Why do you say that?
pluto
"
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:59:13 +0800, pluto <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>i have a strange feeling that azura is marina M
>
>No way! Why do you say that?
i said "strange feeling" '-))))
rumah rakit kau tengale ea?
nasi kerabu sor toko yoh!
Pan
>"On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:39:19 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>"
>>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:59:13 +0800, pluto <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>i have a strange feeling that azura is marina M
>>
>>No way! Why do you say that?
>
>i said "strange feeling" '-))))
>rumah rakit kau tengale ea?
>nasi kerabu sor toko yoh!
Man, your attempt at East Coast Malay sucks. LOL!
Yeah, I used to live in a house on stilts.
Right now, I'm afraid my old village may be under water. :(
pluto
"
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:51:17 +0800, pluto <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
>>"On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:39:19 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>>"
>>>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:59:13 +0800, pluto <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>i have a strange feeling that azura is marina M
>>>
>>>No way! Why do you say that?
>>
>>i said "strange feeling" '-))))
>>rumah rakit kau tengale ea?
>>nasi kerabu sor toko yoh!
>
>Man, your attempt at East Coast Malay sucks. LOL!
>
>Yeah, I used to live in a house on stilts.
rumah rakit on stilts????? !!!!!!!!!
ta gapor,
>
>Right now, I'm afraid my old village may be under water. :(
yea, yea, yea
i saw you shoe float by ;-)))
Pan
>"On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:15:09 GMT, Pan <panNO...@musician.org> wrote:
>>Yeah, I used to live in a house on stilts.
>rumah rakit on stilts????? !!!!!!!!!
>ta gapor,
Are you trying to say "nothing"? All or virtually all houses in the
mukim were on stilts!
>>Right now, I'm afraid my old village may be under water. :(
>yea, yea, yea
>i saw you shoe float by ;-)))
Hey, that's not so funny. Major flooding, some deaths (mostly in
Kelantan).
Pan
>i think she is giving an aliteration ;-)))
>she could easily use
>rumah rakit k treng ... doh LOL
Hey, what did you mean about rumah rakit, anyway? Who lives on a raft?
Titration
worthy race in the world. Learn some manners before disgracing yourself in
public again.
Go read about the good Samaritan, O Pharisee!
"xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103087922.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Malays are
>
> Lazy:
> -----
> Always hang around in shopping centres after school during schooldays
> or skip classes. Whistling at girls or playing football instead of
> studying.
>
> When they come out to work for the government, they work very slowly
> like a snail and without any stress. They like to work for government
> offices where the working hours are short.
>
> Stupid:
> ------
> Their scores in secondary and university subjects are very low. They
> talk very slowly and know only one language (malay).
>
> They have trouble learning science, maths or other advanced topics.
>
> They cannot learn independently and must have a tutor to spoon-feed
> them.
>
> Uncivilized:
> -----------
> Whenever, their so-called rights are threatened, they would resort to
> violence. They want to become millionaire without working hard or
> displaying true intelligence.
>
> Most young malays like to go through red traffic lights and speed
> without regards to others safety.
>
> They would bomb people (americans, australians) who they think are
> being unjust to the muslims. But they themselves can be unjust to the
> non-malays in malaysia and indonesia.
>
Titration
la J spice.
"pluto" <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote in message
news:ce90s0t2jjtk792mb...@4ax.com...
Titration
>
> I don't really want to comment on the above, i think you really have
> been
> unfair and driven by some beef to Malays rather than try to make a
> solid
> argument.
> I never had problem with science, nor do I remember any of my friends.
> And I soooo did not have a tutor.
>
> one of the top secondary school in malaysia. The first 2 science
> classes were dominated by the chinese and indians while the art classes
> or the lower science classes were dominated by the malays. If you are
> still doubtful or want to deny the truth, get the statistics from the
> education ministry in malaysian and singaporean government for the last
> 100 years. If you guys are so intelligent, why do you still need quotas
> or sit for an easier test to enter university ? I doubt you are good in
> science as you claim yourself to be judging by the way you argue.
>
Titration
> Agree, gov. work is easy and convenient. But fact is that I'm less
> likely to get
> job for Chinese who lead majority of the large companies in here.
> Gov. made sure we won't be too united by making this full of shit
> Bumiputra laws.
> Turn each to care of their own and we left with the lame gov. which
> again i repeat
> has no interest make us too independent.
> You really believe that we do all this by choice ?
>
> By the way , working hours are not up to us you know :)
>
>
> ? You can start your own business and compete with the other races and
> prove your worth without any help from the racist government.
It will probably happen in your children's generation. There already are
some.
>
> Working hours are not for you to decide ? Whenever I am in one of the
> government departments, they would start packing before 5 pm eager to
> go home. When they are working, they like to chat with each other even
> when their are customers around. Look at non-malay companies, they
> should pack only after 7 or 8 pm and work overtimes without overtime
> pay.
>
Try looking at it from your boss perspective, then yours and don't forget to
read up on Kiyosaki to get a better perspective.
Mr. Grosvenor
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> Malays are
>
> Lazy:
It seems you are correct, maggot!! I married Sario thinking she would care
for me for the rest of my life, only to discover she won't lift a finger!!
--
William Grosvenor
REDMONTON - Alberta
CANADA T5E 1Y5
1-780-475-5555 or 1-780-475-9668
Got a question about HIV/AIDS?
Do you have questions about HIV or AIDS? If so, chances are that others
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xman
Malays are
Lazy:
-----
Always hang around in shopping centres after school during schooldays
or skip classes. Whistling at girls or playing football instead of
studying.
When they come out to work for the government, they work very slowly
xman
The true idiot is the one who cannot argue in an intelligent manner and
call other people idiot. If you think that azura's answers are
intelligent, then you are as stupid as he/she is.
Some of it make sense, but some are just bullshit ! I will put forth my
arguments later.
An intelligent person argues well, not agree with people who argues
poorly just because he is of your own race !!!
xman
The true idiot is the one who cannot argue in an intelligent manner and
xman
Jack,
I am not speaking carelessly. What I said are all facts, denying the
truth doesn't mean it is not true. Even the british acknowledges it, go
and read the past articles by prominent british.
Even that racist mahathir acknowledges one fact, that the malays are
lazy. But of course, he dared not admit that they are stupid and
uncivilized too.
xman
I don't really want to comment on the above, i think you really have
been
unfair and driven by some beef to Malays rather than try to make a
solid
argument.
I never had problem with science, nor do I remember any of my friends.
And I soooo did not have a tutor.
I am making a solid argument here based on my own experience. I was in
xman
likely to get
job for Chinese who lead majority of the large companies in here.
Gov. made sure we won't be too united by making this full of shit
Bumiputra laws.
Turn each to care of their own and we left with the lame gov. which
again i repeat
has no interest make us too independent.
You really believe that we do all this by choice ?
By the way , working hours are not up to us you know :)
Does the government prevent the malays from having their own businesses
? You can start your own business and compete with the other races and
prove your worth without any help from the racist government.
Working hours are not for you to decide ? Whenever I am in one of the
azura a.n.
> [snip]
>
> Azura, I'm surprised you gave a thoughtful answer to this idiot. But
> where did you come from where your heritage was a longhouse? I thought
> that was mainly among the Iban in Sarawak.
>
Hi there
It suppose to be a joke. We have so little heritage that we need to borrow
from neighbors. Have you seen the tv advertisements which supposed to encourage travel in
Malaysia and it only shows KLCC, KL Tower , couple of shopping and than dude flying kites :)
You , have a nice day
and i'm out to do my work
take care
Azura
Pan
[snip]
>Even that racist mahathir acknowledges one fact, that the malays are
>lazy. But of course, he dared not admit that they are stupid and
>uncivilized too.
I thought he also claimed that they were inferior in innate
intelligence to the Chinese. He certainly claimed they were
genetically inferior in terms of business. But the most important
point is that all of his slanderous claims about Malays are not
despite his racism, but central to his racism. Some Malays are lazy
and some are stupid, but a hell of a lot of them are not, and if you
don't know that, that's your problem.
xman
Mr. Grosvenor wrote:
> Malays are
> >
> > Lazy:
>
> It seems you are correct, maggot!! I married Sario thinking she would
care
> for me for the rest of my life, only to discover she won't lift a
finger!!
You should have read the articles written by the british who were in
malaya/malaysia on what they wrote about the malays (for they are the
truth) before marrying the malays.
Pan
wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Azura, I'm surprised you gave a thoughtful answer to this idiot. But
>> where did you come from where your heritage was a longhouse? I thought
>> that was mainly among the Iban in Sarawak.
>>
>
>Hi there
>It suppose to be a joke. We have so little heritage that we need to borrow
>from neighbors. Have you seen the tv advertisements which supposed to encourage travel in
>Malaysia and it only shows KLCC, KL Tower , couple of shopping and than dude flying kites :)
Yes, I did. :-)
>You , have a nice day
>and i'm out to do my work
Enjoy the rest of your day.
All the best,
Pan
>Azura, I'm surprised you gave a thoughtful answer to this idiot.
>
>The true idiot is the one who cannot argue in an intelligent manner and
>call other people idiot.
[snip]
Prejudice is idiotic. So is trolling.
There's a huge difference between valid complaints and stereotypic
slanders.
Pan
<inter...@grosvenor.net> wrote:
>"xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> babbled in news:1103087922.800071.134950
>@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> Malays are
>>
>> Lazy:
>
>It seems you are correct, maggot!! I married Sario thinking she would care
>for me for the rest of my life, only to discover she won't lift a finger!!
And of course, that has nothing to do with you, does it?
xman
moron decided
and if you had the balls to stand up against it , it would not end like
that.
I blame you for not doing your part and just settle with what they
decided.
Nice for a citizen of the country. Because of people like you I'm now
the damn Bumiputra. I'm a living sample of legal racism. You totally in
fault and I blame
you for it along with the gov. Thank You !!!
--------------------------------------
A lot of non-malays stand up against it, example are lee kuan yew and
lim kit siang, what did it get them ? I
SA, kick out of country, threats of racial riots - all of them from
uncivilized people who are not civilized to understand what is right
and what is wrong !
The minority cannot out vote the majority, and especially since the
malays cut out the constituencies so that there are less non-malay
areas to ensure their own race decide the outcome of the election.
Your statement here shows how stupid you are. If you are really
sincere, go and persuade the majority malays to vote
out the racist government ! Whether you are UMNO, PAS, keadilan, I have
never seen any leader that who says the so-called
bumi rights should be abolished.
MCA and gerakan are all puppets of UMNO, cowards who cannot stand up
against injustices !
Anyway, why should you guys get any rights ? The real locals are the
"orang asli" who are very different people from you malays, they speak
different languages and have different culture. You guys are basically
immigrants from indonesia.
The first mass migration was to the malacca empire in 1400 from sumatra
!
xman
Pan
Very good, you're not only a racist but associate yourself with the
patronizing attitudes of colonialists.
Tom
engineered it to be so. It was done to counter their fear of Chinese
communism after the Second World War. So, don't waste your time Xman, by
venting your frustration on the Bumis. Why sell yourself short? If you have
talents or skills that are undervalued, offer them to other countries.
Thousands of people are doing that all the time. I did that forty years ago
and never regretted it.
Tom
"xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103087922.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Pan
>Politically, the situation is immutable because the western powers
>engineered it to be so. It was done to counter their fear of Chinese
>communism after the Second World War. So, don't waste your time Xman, by
>venting your frustration on the Bumis. Why sell yourself short? If you have
>talents or skills that are undervalued, offer them to other countries.
>Thousands of people are doing that all the time. I did that forty years ago
>and never regretted it.
>
>Tom
Where did you move, Tom?
There are also some Malays working abroad. I've known some, and the
ones I've known are people of great ability who resent bureaucratic
incompetence and nonfeasance as much as Xman does.
Michawel
pluto
>engineered it to be so. It was done to counter their fear of Chinese
>communism after the Second World War. So, don't waste your time Xman, by
>venting your frustration on the Bumis. Why sell yourself short? If you have
>talents or skills that are undervalued, offer them to other countries.
>Thousands of people are doing that all the time. I did that forty years ago
>and never regretted it.
>
>Tom
The best, concise summary and advice, Tom,
congratulations.
xman
Tom wrote:
> Politically, the situation is immutable because the western powers
> engineered it to be so. It was done to counter their fear of Chinese
> communism after the Second World War. So, don't waste your time Xman,
by
> venting your frustration on the Bumis. Why sell yourself short? If
you have
> talents or skills that are undervalued, offer them to other
countries.
> Thousands of people are doing that all the time. I did that forty
years ago
> and never regretted it.
>
Tom,
As you can see from the replies from the malays here, they said that
the present situation (racist laws) is due to the fact that we did not
object to it although I think he is an idiot in saying that. If you
also care to read about the malaysiakini letters, those malays would
also say that the non-malays don't complain much about that racist
malay rights and we only care about the chinese culture and education.
I think one of the reason is mainly due to the ISA shutting some of us
up. The malays are really uncivilized and unreasonable people.
Not all non-malays can vote with their feet, please remember that. Did
all your friends and relatives migrate to other countries? What about
those unfortunates who cannot afford a private university education
even though his grades was better than those who could enter public
university based on skin color ?
Laws are made by man, and I do believe they are mutable if enough
support comes from the citizens themselves.
xman
Pan,
I do not just read about everything I see and believe in it. Which
parts of the british statements about the malays are not true ?
All the statements can be verified by talking and observing the malays
working in both govt and banking sectors.
Cannot even speak basic english, does not basic product knowledge and
no analytical skills. We can ask any non-biased
foreigner (not just the british) to observe for themselves whether what
I said is true .
As for the definition of colonialist, aren't the malays colonialist
themselves ? Having taking the land from the orang asli ?
As for racist, go and read the so-called "bumi rights". Affirmative
actions is about helping all poor people regardless of race not making
more malays become millionaire !!
Yes, malaysia has a lot of stupid idiot like you who doesn't know how
to look into the mirror before accusing others !
azura a.n.
> As you can see from the replies from the malays here, they said that
> the present situation (racist laws) is due to the fact that we did not
> object to it although I think he is an idiot in saying that. If you
> also care to read about the malaysiakini letters, those malays would
> also say that the non-malays don't complain much about that racist
> malay rights and we only care about the chinese culture and education.
> I think one of the reason is mainly due to the ISA shutting some of us
> up. The malays are really uncivilized and unreasonable people.
Ok, that was funny...
But before I start let me ask please, what's with the nick name - an XMAN ?
I see we compensate for something here , aren't we :) ?
Back to the topic, I truly pity you ,really. You can't even read properly
what someone said. Plus the "he" is "she" , figure you should know, apparently
my name didn't give it away, but .. well...
> Laws are made by man, and I do believe they are mutable if enough
> support comes from the citizens themselves.
Poland was under Communism for 40 years. Leh Walensa , an ordinary electrician
brought up the system by standing up against it in early 80's, from there it went
to Check Republic , Hungary and Romania. Everything can be change by man if the
man really bother to bother.
Seem to me like you really nothing but the big mouth. That's all there is to you.
But not to worry, you not alone. I hear lots of people like you complaining , always
using the same old , stereotypy arguments and always turning to "racism" and "bumiputra"
for asylum. Get some balls, a pair of it will be better. I suggest the one from
China town , you know, the Stainless Steel one . Talk is cheap , you are cheap just like
your funny arguments.
Now, go to mommy and cry how the Malay gang against you.
> Not all non-malays can vote with their feet, please remember that. Did
> all your friends and relatives migrate to other countries? What about
> those unfortunates who cannot afford a private university education
> even though his grades was better than those who could enter public
> university based on skin color ?
That's pretty much tier problem. I cover cost of education myself.
My father open saving education programs along with insurance just when
i was 3 years old. I work all holidays part time and keep my money instead
of buying hand phones and all the stuff. I had enough to spend 4 years
in europe w/o making additional effort. Not shopping but to sustain.
Don't blame others for your incompetence in planing or because you mama
did not care enough to think in to the future for you.
Not all of us are connected, rock starts or born rich.
In fact there is a minority of the society that makes the elite.
We all deal with same sewage and i dare to say , even the bumis.
There are flaws , we all know, and I was willing to acknowledge
but you can't take argument w/o calling me an idiot , this is all I need to
know about you.
Let me guess, envy for something , some kind of underachiever
who need to bring others down to make yourself feel better ?
What is going on there X-man ? Be honest, what is that bothers you.
What have you been deprived of that you turn up to be such a bigot ?
"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will
contract."
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
Take care "x-man"
Azura
Pan
>
>Pan,
>
>I do not just read about everything I see and believe in it. Which
>parts of the british statements about the malays are not true ?
[snip]
When's the last time you visited a Malay kampung in Terengganu? Do you
know how many hours their kids spend in tuition schools after
finishing with their daily classes? Do you know how hard they worked
in sawmills back in the 70s? What do you know about the majority of
the Malay population that you don't meet every day?
>All the statements can be verified by talking and observing the malays
>working in both govt and banking sectors.
WRONG! Those are bureaucrats and clerical workers! Complaining about
the incompetence and lousy work ethic of bureaucrats and clerical
workers is commonplace in many countries and often inherent to the
particular conditions in that sector.
>Cannot even speak basic english, does not basic product knowledge and
>no analytical skills. We can ask any non-biased
>foreigner (not just the british) to observe for themselves whether what
>I said is true .
Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered to me whether they speak English,
because I speak Malay. Don't you?
>As for the definition of colonialist, aren't the malays colonialist
>themselves ? Having taking the land from the orang asli ?
Yes, that is neo-Colonialist, but non-Bumiputras are also involved in
exploiting the Orang Asli. Anyway, if you're wrong, does it
automatically follow that Malay bigots are right? How about settling
on non-bigotry as a good compromise?
>As for racist, go and read the so-called "bumi rights". Affirmative
>actions is about helping all poor people regardless of race not making
>more malays become millionaire !!
Did you get the idea somewhere that I support quotas for "Bumiputras"?
>Yes, malaysia has a lot of stupid idiot like you who doesn't know how
>to look into the mirror before accusing others !
Um, I look in the mirror every day, and I'm not a Malaysian nor living
in Malaysia.
Look, you're a complete idiot because on the one hand, you say that
when a majority opposes a law it can be changed, and on the other
hand, you've gotten it branded into your brain that Malays are all
lazy, stupid, and uncivilized. Since they're the majority, unless
people like you stop regarding them all as permanent, implacable
enemies and antagonizing them with undisguised bigotry, you'll never
get anywhere, except perhaps out of the country.
xman
> Back to the topic, I truly pity you ,really. You can't even read
properly
> what someone said. Plus the "he" is "she" , figure you should know,
apparently
> my name didn't give it away, but .. well...
I don't care whether you are a he or she. In english, a he can be used
as
a general term regardless of sex. As usual, you do not argue logically
but nit-pick on minor things
that is not to the topic. I am sure you are also able to differentiate
the sex of all the chinese and indian names 100% correctly.
> Poland was under Communism for 40 years. Leh Walensa , an ordinary
electrician
> brought up the system by standing up against it in early 80's, from
there it went
> to Check Republic , Hungary and Romania. Everything can be change by
man if the
> man really bother to bother.
> Seem to me like you really nothing but the big mouth. That's all
there is to you.
>
> But not to worry, you not alone. I hear lots of people like you
complaining , always
> using the same old , stereotypy arguments and always turning to
"racism" and "bumiputra"
> for asylum. Get some balls, a pair of it will be better. I suggest
the one from
> China town , you know, the Stainless Steel one . Talk is cheap , you
are cheap just like
> your funny arguments.
> Now, go to mommy and cry how the Malay gang against you.
>
First you accuse us of not complaining and that is why the racist
policies exist, then
you accuse of complaining and having a big mouth. Typical uncivilized
malay who doesn't talk
reason. Your statement here proved my 3 point - malays are uncivilized.
> That's pretty much tier problem. I cover cost of education myself.
> My father open saving education programs along with insurance just
when
> i was 3 years old. I work all holidays part time and keep my money
instead
> of buying hand phones and all the stuff. I had enough to spend 4
years
> in europe w/o making additional effort. Not shopping but to sustain.
> Don't blame others for your incompetence in planing or because you
mama
> did not care enough to think in to the future for you.
> Not all of us are connected, rock starts or born rich.
> In fact there is a minority of the society that makes the elite.
> We all deal with same sewage and i dare to say , even the bumis.
Hmmm. What is "tier" must be comeone who claims to be intelligent but
cannot spell properly.
Spend 4 years in europe ? Do you know how much it costs ? For the
average malaysian chinese/indian
they cannot even spend 1/2 year in europe. I guess your father must be
one of the cronies of the malay govt who reward people based on skin
color. Then there is the other aspect of corruption....
>
> There are flaws , we all know, and I was willing to acknowledge
> but you can't take argument w/o calling me an idiot , this is all I
need to
> know about you.
>
If you argue intelligently, i wouldn't call you an idiot. In fact,
there was one other guy
here who called me an idiot and didn't even give any convincing
arguments. I guess it proves
my point 3 again. I am glad you admit that there are flaws in the govt.
> Let me guess, envy for something , some kind of underachiever
> who need to bring others down to make yourself feel better ?
> What is going on there X-man ? Be honest, what is that bothers you.
> What have you been deprived of that you turn up to be such a bigot ?
Well, the true bigots are the malay govt and you, practizing legal
racism and
using force on other races if they protest to it.
Underachiever ? I was educated in the best school and universities
around the world.
Unlike a lot of my compatriots, I dare to bring this matter to the
international community
and speak against the racism in malaysia. This has nothing to do about
being deprived but
of justice !!!
Let me ask you a few questions, if you were born a non-malay in
malaysia, and you are smarter than somebody who can get into university
but you yourself cannot but your family is poor to send you overseas,
how would you feel ?
What about this 7% discounts for buying houses ? Why should the
non-malay pay more ? If you malays can
afford bungalows/double storey houses that cost >300k , i wouldn't call
you guys exactly poor.
I can go on and on about the injustices in malaysia. But how many
malays are civilized and listen to reason ???? A few handfuls like
ahmad nor of DAP, maybe.
Until you malays can argue logically, don't call yourself civilized !
pluto
>Take care "x-man"
>
>Azura
i told you, xman
i make my homes
be my gallows
--- hannibal lector
ardeedee
> Let me ask you a few questions, if you were born a non-malay in
> malaysia, and you are smarter than somebody who can get into university
> but you yourself cannot but your family is poor to send you overseas,
> how would you feel ?
First you have to be objective in arriving at the ranking of your abilities.
Secondly you are not native to the counry and your country of origin is
China where you may not even have had a chance to go to primary school
Thirdly yoiur community is rich with many leaders who should be organising
scholarships for such needy cases as yours.
Fourth this same situation exists also in Singaproe where needy children of
more brains that you Chinese cannoit get into U and they do not have the
money to go to overseas U and hence have to be at the bottom of the heap and
they are native to the country not immigrants that you are.
xman <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103267404.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
azura a.n.
> I don't care whether you are a he or she. In english, a he can be used
> as
> a general term regardless of sex. As usual, you do not argue logically
> but nit-pick on minor things
> that is not to the topic. I am sure you are also able to differentiate
> the sex of all the chinese and indian names 100% correctly.
New to me , but that's ok, I don't know english well enough to argue here.
You most likely right. So I can use SHE to refer to you ?
Thanks for the tip.
> First you accuse us of not complaining and that is why the racist
> policies exist, then
> you accuse of complaining and having a big mouth. Typical uncivilized
> malay who doesn't talk
> reason. Your statement here proved my 3 point - malays are uncivilized.
3 point or 3 words ?
"malays are uncivilized" - that's one .....
You losing it and confusing me , please try to stay in line with what you write.
> Hmmm. What is "tier" must be comeone who claims to be intelligent but
> cannot spell properly.
> Spend 4 years in europe ? Do you know how much it costs ? For the
> average malaysian chinese/indian
> they cannot even spend 1/2 year in europe. I guess your father must be
> one of the cronies of the malay govt who reward people based on skin
> color. Then there is the other aspect of corruption....
funny you said that and right after you spell "someone" with "comeone"
hi hi hi , you so cute ,I have so much fun with you , no kidding...
> If you argue intelligently, i wouldn't call you an idiot. In fact,
> there was one other guy
> here who called me an idiot and didn't even give any convincing
> arguments. I guess it proves
> my point 3 again. I am glad you admit that there are flaws in the govt.
I can't take resposiblity for others, what they call you is their problem
but you offending me so i refer to you.
> Let me ask you a few questions, if you were born a non-malay in
> malaysia, and you are smarter than somebody who can get into university
> but you yourself cannot but your family is poor to send you overseas,
> how would you feel ?
I was born in poor family. Did not I just say that I pay for my own education ?
My father just managed, barely, they keep all for me and my sister, than I make
them wealthy when my business turn out well and help them go on their own. Tho they
did not do well most of their adult life.
I was saving money for 20 years , you do it smart it's enough for 4 years.
Again , don't try to twist POOR into your poor arguments. I been there, you can't
talk you way out of with "how would I feel" becasue I did feel.
> What about this 7% discounts for buying houses ? Why should the
> non-malay pay more ? If you malays can
> afford bungalows/double storey houses that cost >300k , i wouldn't call
> you guys exactly poor.
Funny again . I live in a shop lot kind of place most my life.
Once I start doing business I bought my own house , few of them in fact.
Never get any discount tho. Housing gov. project or if you will gov. flat
perhaps but Bumi does not apply to 300 thousands bungalow.
> I can go on and on about the injustices in malaysia. But how many
> malays are civilized and listen to reason ???? A few handfuls like
> ahmad nor of DAP, maybe.
> Until you malays can argue logically, don't call yourself civilized !
Please do , I don't know about it from your perspective and would like to hear
of the injustice.
So far whatever you can't answer you call me "uncivilized"
Please do educate me to be as civilized as you.
azura a.n.
>
> First you accuse us of not complaining and that is why the racist
> policies exist, then
> you accuse of complaining and having a big mouth. Typical uncivilized
> malay who doesn't talk
> reason. Your statement here proved my 3 point - malays are uncivilized.
You did not interpreted me properly to start with, instead you exaggerated it according to you
preference and convenience. Second, I said you have big mouth
because for everything I say you coming back with "Uncivilized" and "Bumis"
Like a broken record.
for future posting , so it does not look like you repeat yourself , alternative
to "uncivilized"
barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, boorish, brutish, churlish, cluttered, coarse, crass, crude,
discourteous, disrespectful, gross, ill-bred, illiterate, impertinent, impolite, loutish,
mannerless, outrageous, philistine, primitive, rude, rugged, savage, unconscionable, uncontrolled,
uncouth, uncultivated, uneducated, ungodly, unholy, unmannered, unpolished, unrefined,
unsophisticated, vulgar, wicked
You Welcome :)
xman
> You did not interpreted me properly to start with, instead you
exaggerated it according to you
> preference and convenience. Second, I said you have big mouth
> because for everything I say you coming back with "Uncivilized" and
"Bumis"
> Like a broken record.
>
> for future posting , so it does not look like you repeat yourself ,
alternative
> to "uncivilized"
>
Well, a civilized person will argue logically and give justification
for their arguments or policies.
I don't see that quality in you. There are a few malays who do argue
logically but certainly not you !
Before I forget to say it, just because you are an example of
"self-independant", hard working, smart malay (which has yet to be
proven) does not mean the majority of malays are. I am talking about
the majority of malays here. While I must give you credit for the
ability to write in english which most malays nowadays cannot even
write/speak basic english.
Everytime I talk to them in english, they reply back in malay. I
remember this malay officer working in maybank who cannot even
understand what is called "Fixed Deposit".
I guess this is the result of too much protection from the government.
Becoming more lazy and without knowledge(better term than stupid?).
When I go to singapore, at least the malays there understand basic
english.
alex
xman wrote:
> Your statement here shows how stupid you are. If you are really
> sincere, go and persuade the majority malays to vote
> out the racist government ! Whether you are UMNO, PAS, keadilan, I have
> never seen any leader that who says the so-called
> bumi rights should be abolished.
Did Mahathir not call for bumi rights to be reduced and eventually
abolished? What about Pak Lah? Aren't they top and ex- top leaders of UMNO?
>
> MCA and gerakan are all puppets of UMNO, cowards who cannot stand up
> against injustices !
>
> Anyway, why should you guys get any rights ? The real locals are the
> "orang asli" who are very different people from you malays, they speak
> different languages and have different culture. You guys are basically
> immigrants from indonesia.
They are getting rights so that people like you and me can get to live
peacefully in Malaysia and continue living peacefully. If you were less
biased and racist [and a troll to boot] you might have realised that
without the NEP and other measures by Mahathir, we would have ended up
like Indonesia.
>
> The first mass migration was to the malacca empire in 1400 from sumatra
> !
If you really hate the system that much, you could always .....migrate
somewhere else :) . Let me guess..... not smart enough to get a decent
paying job and not enough money to migrate. Guess you're stuck here then
:P .
Pan
[snip]
>First you accuse us of not complaining and that is why the racist
>policies exist, then
>you accuse of complaining and having a big mouth. Typical uncivilized
>malay who doesn't talk
>reason. Your statement here proved my 3 point - malays are uncivilized.
[snip]
Azura, a vocal opponent of the Bumiputra privileges you want to get
rid of, is "uncivilized" to you. Imagine! You ought to rant and rave
to your psychologist instead of here, because you're doing harm here.
Unfortunately, you're apparently too irrational or/and stupid to
realize that.
alex
xman wrote:
>
>
> Well, a civilized person will argue logically and give justification
> for their arguments or policies.
> I don't see that quality in you. There are a few malays who do argue
> logically but certainly not you !
>
From what I've read here everyone, even ardedee, seems to be making
sense except you. You label the whole malay race as lazy, stupid and
uncivilised. Well China has been governed by Chinese leaders for a few
thousand years. Do you think the citizens there have a higher standard
of living? As a chinese, would you like to move back there and become a
citizen of China ? Do you have any idea how tough life is back there ???
It's only started to get better in the past few years. Most of them can
only speak one language...chinese, does that mean they are stupid???
Therefore your arguments and points are not logical, nor are they
justified. Does that mean you are uncivilised?
> Before I forget to say it, just because you are an example of
> "self-independant", hard working, smart malay (which has yet to be
> proven) does not mean the majority of malays are. I am talking about
> the majority of malays here. While I must give you credit for the
> ability to write in english which most malays nowadays cannot even
> write/speak basic english.
>
> Everytime I talk to them in english, they reply back in malay. I
> remember this malay officer working in maybank who cannot even
> understand what is called "Fixed Deposit".
>
I repeat my point, how many chinese in China will understand what 'Fixed
Deposit' means? And that's supposed to tell us how smart a race is ???
Where's the logic in that ??? No logic = uncivilised???? So what does
that make you ?
> I guess this is the result of too much protection from the government.
> Becoming more lazy and without knowledge(better term than stupid?).
> When I go to singapore, at least the malays there understand basic
> english.
Need I repeat again??? Every Filipino I know speaks English fluently.
That makes them smart and knowledgable???? If that's so, why do they
have such low standards of living??? Illogical isn't it? Oooops no logic
= uncivilised.
Look, I know you carry this really really big chip on your shoulder
about the bumiputra privileges. I would be lying if I said I didn't feel
anything when I watched all those Malay friends of mine buying 15,000
pounds mercedes whilst studying in the UK. And these guys were on
scholarship.
After spending time back here I realised something. These 'privileges'
are necessary. They are meant to help the Bumis narrow the financial gap
between the other races. When the majority race of a country has such a
low share of the financial cake, envy creeps in and serious problems
like racial riots occur. Look at Indonesia if you need more convincing.
What you and many others fail to realise is that if someone is poor and
starving...what is his thinking. Which do you think will be easier for
him to accept....you going up to him and telling him that he's poor
because he's stupid, lazy and uncivilised, or when some opportunist goes
up to him and saying it's because he was robbed, that he was
marginalised...tricked, cheated. What do you think he will do next to
'balance' out this supposed injustice? I don't need to spell out the rest.
Mahathir was brilliant because he forsaw the problems that would occur
if he did not reduce the financial disparity. What other method can you
think of and implement and still be continously elected as leader of
your party other than the system that we currently have???? Most people
criticise and paint Mahathir as a tyrant because they pick only on the
negatives and disadvantages of his methods.
I am not saying the system is perfect. Azura has also pointed this out
to you. The system has it's flaws like the cronies and those mercs
driving scholarship students :P and those that you have pointed
out...like those qualified academically being sidelined ..... but the
question is....are you willing to acknowledge the peace it has given you
and your family?
Pan
[snip]
>Before I forget to say it, just because you are an example of
>"self-independant", hard working, smart malay (which has yet to be
>proven) does not mean the majority of malays are. I am talking about
>the majority of malays here.
[snip]
No you're not. You came on here to make a bunch of statements about
Malays, not to give exceptions. Backing away slightly now won't fool
anyone. I know very well that my Malay friends in Terengganu are in
most cases very hardworking and got ahead not due to handouts but to
study and hard work. Yes, a certain number of fishermen were given
low-interest loans (IIRC) for motorboats, but they still have to do
the hard work of fishing themselves, and have the muscles to show for
it!
> While I must give you credit for the
>ability to write in english which most malays nowadays cannot even
>write/speak basic english.
>
>Everytime I talk to them in english, they reply back in malay. I
>remember this malay officer working in maybank who cannot even
>understand what is called "Fixed Deposit".
I hear you. Incompetent clerical worker. But did it occur to you that
many of them reply to you in Malay because they know you're not a
foreigner and think you should speak Malay?
>I guess this is the result of too much protection from the government.
>Becoming more lazy and without knowledge(better term than stupid?).
You're talking about clerical workers and bureaucrats. Understand
that. And yes, low standards for a profession result in problems. I've
sometimes had that experience with people like postal workers in the
US (though most postal workers are qualified and some here, like my
regular letter-carrier, are truly excellent). It's a sad fact that
when Americans come across a black postal worker who is incompetent,
some of us think of that worker as having gotten there through
affirmative action (I can't remember when I had that thought, but I
know others who do), whereas I personally never think of that in the
vast majority of cases, where US postal workers of all colors are
obviously qualified.
>When I go to singapore, at least the malays there understand basic
>english.
Right. So at least you realize this is not genetic.
So, how's your Malay? If you lived on the East Coast, you'd be fluent
in Malay and wouldn't complain about your fellow Malaysians not all
being able to speak English.
Roberts@yahoo.com Ben Roberts
they seem to have licence to do so.
"pluto" <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote in message
news:qo15s0t3trv612ci3...@4ax.com...
xman
>
> From what I've read here everyone, even ardedee, seems to be making
> sense except you. You label the whole malay race as lazy, stupid and
> uncivilised. Well China has been governed by Chinese leaders for a
few
> thousand years. Do you think the citizens there have a higher
standard
> of living? As a chinese, would you like to move back there and become
a
> citizen of China ? Do you have any idea how tough life is back there
???
> It's only started to get better in the past few years. Most of them
can
> only speak one language...chinese, does that mean they are stupid???
I didn't label the whole malay race as ..... , I am saying the majority
!
Just like there are stupid chinese/indians like you but they are the
minority !
Well, at least now there is somebody with a little bit of intelligence
writing here instead of some assholes who likes to berate but doesn't
put forth any valid arguments. Typical malays !
China was the world's largest economy before the UK and the US, and was
the
world most technological advanced country before then. The decline of
the china was due to many reasons, one of which was an incapable govt
who did not want to open up the country.
I think you yourself should get acquainted with their history in depth
before looking at it from a shallow view. And isn't china now catching
up, it is already one of the largest economy now in the world. Go and
ask prominent people who will be the dominant country (or 2nd) in years
to come.
Even president bush has to beg the chinese to revalue their yuan.
Remember, a so-called dialect is actually a language, most chinese know
2 languages, their own local dialect and putonghua. After the opening
up of china, people are learning english in droves or is that a fact ,
you don't know ?
Malaysia is a multi-racial country with large minorities, unlike china
and is an open country, so what is the reason for only proficiency in
only one language ? The rest of the races knows at most 2 languages.
China has a 90+ han people.
> I repeat my point, how many chinese in China will understand what
'Fixed
> Deposit' means? And that's supposed to tell us how smart a race is
???
> Where's the logic in that ??? No logic = uncivilised???? So what does
> that make you ?
>
I am just giving the people here an example here. A person working in a
bank does not know what is Fixed deposit ? I think it must be the
laughing stock in the world. It is just like going to a bakery, and the
person does not know what the word "bread" is in english in a
multiracial country that was governed by the british in the past .
There are a lot of examples besides this, go to maybank and see for
yourself. But then you will never admit, right ? To you, the malays
are all intelligent and knowledgeable.
It seems that you are trying to hate me instead of putting forth valid
arguments, so what does that make you ? If you go to one of those
savage tribes, do you think they will talk reason ? So where do you
belong ?
> Need I repeat again??? Every Filipino I know speaks English fluently.
> That makes them smart and knowledgable???? If that's so, why do they
> have such low standards of living??? Illogical isn't it? Oooops no
logic
> = uncivilised.
You are quite bad-tempered, aren't you?
They do not speak english fluently (not in the sense of the europeans),
they know only basic english. Besides, their basic english proficiency
has enabled them to migrate to western countries easier and enabled
them to obtain jobs like in singapore easier than the indonesian maids.
Their low standard of living is due to other factors.
Go and ask any multinational companies and see what is ONE of the
reasons that they picked malaysia ? Is english proficiency one of them
? Why did singapore pick english as the language of business ? Isn't
singapore one of the richest country in the world right now ?
Remember, malaysia is a multi-racial country born of a multi-racial
country since independence. There is a difference here which you didn't
see.
If other races can speak more than one language, and there is only race
who cannot speak it , what does it say about that race ?
But I guess you are not smart enough to understand this point ? Does it
sound logical to you now ?
As usual you are cheated by the propaganda by the racist govt. It is
just like saying, let us say, I am your poor neighbour (a malay) and
you are a rich chinese/indian, do I have the right to kill you just
because you are rich by legal means (not by stealing etc). Does that
mean that a poor person can have the right to rob a rich person, look
at all those snatch thiefs, almost all of them are exclusively malay,
and I think you must be applauding them right now for snatching from
the rich because they are poor!
If you still feel that the laws are justified, then I want to be your
neighbour so that I can plunder you.
Let me ask those stupid indonesian malays, if the chinese were not
there, do you think the economy would be even worse than it is right
now ? Look at what happened to vietnam after the chinese left ? It has
become one of the poorest country in SEA, who are they to blame then.
So if one of their own kind is rich, they can kill the rich ?
Poor and starving ? As usual, either you are living in a shell, or want
to twist facts. You mean you have NEVER seen a poor chinese/indian ?
So-called affirmative actions should be performed for all poor races of
all citizens not just one single race.
Poor and starving ? Go to those expensive KFC etc and see who the
majority of eaters there are ? When I was young, my parents couldn't
even afford me to eat at those places. Even now, my relatives cannot
even afford to go there.
You yourself have proven one fact in the indonesian case that the
malays are stupid, easily fooled and uncivilized by initiating racial
riots. Need I say more ?
> Mahathir was brilliant because he forsaw the problems that would
occur
> if he did not reduce the financial disparity. What other method can
you
> think of and implement and still be continously elected as leader of
> your party other than the system that we currently have???? Most
people
> criticise and paint Mahathir as a tyrant because they pick only on
the
> negatives and disadvantages of his methods.
>
Brilliant ? Or a racist and a tyrant?
How do you explain the declining standard of our university ranking.
How do you explain the declining value of the malaysian currency.
How do you explain the rising costs of all essential goods.
How do you explain the brain drain and migration of non-malays.
How do you explain the lousy english proficiency of the general
population as compared to 1957?
How do you explain the ... I can go on and on. But you do not want to
hear , right ?
Singapore and malaysia went out on the same footing, just compare the 2
countries and you will see the difference.
Mahathir was the PM when foreign investments poured into SEA during the
90s, the success of the country is not soley because of him. After
1997, is the position of the country much better even under his
leadership ? I must admit though that he is smarter than the average
malay but definitely not brilliant as you claim him to be. Look at how
korea recovered after 1997.
> I am not saying the system is perfect. Azura has also pointed this
out
> to you. The system has it's flaws like the cronies and those mercs
> driving scholarship students :P and those that you have pointed
> out...like those qualified academically being sidelined ..... but the
> question is....are you willing to acknowledge the peace it has given
you
> and your family?
As I have said, jealous race threatening other races to maintain peace
is what people would call a "bully". Just compare to those gangsters
who collect "protection money" from the hawkers there in china. Is this
legal in most countries ? But I gues you are supporting gangsterism too
by supporting these policies?
The way to eliminate is through proper public education and
understanding and helping out the poor from all races !!! Or is that
alien to you and the malays ? If it is , then go back to see the title
of this subject.
xman
>Did Mahathir not call for bumi rights to be reduced and eventually
>abolished? What about Pak Lah? Aren't they top and ex- top leaders of
UMNO?
I don't know whether it is just a show or not to please the non-malays.
But what matters is that the racist policies still exists.
I remember suqiu asked for the rights to be abolished and yet UMNo
threatened to burn down the building.
As UMNO president, if he was sincere, did he not protest ? Instead he
called them extremists.
So are you clever enough to see how double faced he is !
But I guess you would support this uncivilized behaviour right ?
>They are getting rights so that people like you and me can get to live
>peacefully in Malaysia and continue living peacefully. If you were
less
>biased and racist [and a troll to boot] you might have realised that
>without the NEP and other measures by Mahathir, we would have ended up
>like Indonesia.
Please see my arguments above as to the flaw in your logic. You do not
really
know what is the meaning of "racist" right ? Go and look up in the
dictionary and
compare the behaviour of our govt and see whether they are racist in
your definition.
If I was racist , I would say give special privileges to the
chinese/indian only regardless of
whether they are poor or rich. But what I am saying now is that give
affirmative action to poor people
regardless of their race. So does that make you a troll ?
>If you really hate the system that much, you could always .....migrate
>somewhere else :) . Let me guess..... not smart enough to get a decent
>paying job and not enough money to migrate. Guess you're stuck here
then
As usual, this is one of those uncivilized people who talk nonsense, if
you don't like a system whether it is justified or not,
just LEAVE.
Why don't I give an example, if I were to move into your neighbour's
house and I rear a fierce dog to snarl at you everytime you
enter your house and I blast my speakers out loud even after midnight
and if you don't like it, YOU CAN MOVE OUT.
Isn't that one of the behaviour of "uncivilized".
I think you forgot to read my credentials as to my earlier post or
couldn't bother to read.
Getting a decent paying job or rich in malaysia does not mean you are
smart, I can give you many examples of idiotic
managers who was promoted in malaysia mainly due to their skin color.
do you think they can even write a decent paragraph?
The next time you see a police inspector having many wifes and houses,
ask whether they practise corruption ?
Anyway, I am speaking out against the injustices of this country and
not for myself. I am not as selfish as MCA/Gerakan/MIC
who only cares for their relationship with UMNO to get rich.
So you are also saying that lee kuan yew and lim kit siang are not
smart or have decent pay to voice out against the injustices ?
Or you are too stupid enough to know what was the real circumstances
behind the eviction of singapore in 1965?
Did the blacks in south africa migrate because of apartheid there ? Did
the negros migrate because of racist policies in america in the past ?
Let me guess, you are one of the stupid chinese right ? A rich chinese
whose father could send you to one of the lousy university in UK but
doesn't know the sufferings of your own compatriots or couldn't care
less ?
xman
I also need to add that the filipinos are basically of the
malayo-polynesian race and basic english proficiency itself is not
enough for the success of a country. Intelligence is also one of the
other factor. Before you give examples of successful filipino and so
on, remember there are filipino chinese and filipino mixed race
(spanish/american).
xman
>know how many hours their kids spend in tuition schools after
>in sawmills back in the 70s? What do you know about the majority of
>the Malay population that you don't meet every day?
I must admit I have never been to terengganu. I must ask my non-malay
friends from kelantan, terengganu
as to how hard-working they are there.
I can only judge based on my years of observation of the malays in the
cities like klang valley and penang.
Go and see who is loitering around shopping centres when they should be
in school ?
So you are saying that the malays in kelantan, terengganu are hard
working and the malays in cities are
all a bunch of lazy people ? If you say the majority of the malays are
hard-working, I think I would have to vomit.
For that to invalidate the statements of the british people, the
non-malays and mahathir himself.
Go and read his umno speeches.
Never read the "malay dilemma" written by that guy himself whether he
mentioned malay are lazy. But I guess
mahathir won't lie about his own race if it was not true, right ?
Either that, or you are a bloody liar and a bigot who cannot admit the
truth.
>WRONG! Those are bureaucrats and clerical workers! Complaining about
>the incompetence and lousy work ethic of bureaucrats and clerical
>workers is commonplace in many countries and often inherent to the
>particular conditions in that sector.
Ha..ha.. Whenever I go to foreign countries, I find their govt workers
are much more capable.
If you need an example, go to singapore and observe yourself ! Don't
just give false justification.
I am not living in a shell as I have travelled in many countries.
>Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered to me whether they speak English,
>because I speak Malay. Don't you?
So i guess next time a foreigner comes to malaysia, you will be around
to translate for him?
I remembered once when I met this filipino and he told me, there is no
point of building the world's
tallest building when most of the population cannot even speak basic
english. He was being sarcastic
but it struck me like lightning , never mind the fact that I speak
fluent english but after all , I am a malaysian.
It is just that some foreigners don't differentiate between a malaysian
malay or malaysian chinese/indian.
>Yes, that is neo-Colonialist, but non-Bumiputras are also involved in
>exploiting the Orang Asli. Anyway, if you're wrong, does it
>automatically follow that Malay bigots are right? How about settling
>on non-bigotry as a good compromise?
So you are admitting yourself to be a colonist now , since you yourself
used colonist in such
a degrading manner in your previous post. But then when you are a
colonist, it sounds better right ?
Isn't that bigotry ?
Telling the truth is not bigotry but denying the truth is.
If I say that malays are intelligent, hard working and civilized, do
you think that those foreigners and majority of non-malays who
know malaysia well will laugh ?
While intelligence cannot be changed as it depends on genes but hard
workingness and civilized manner can be changed.
Do you think that those racist policies helps the malays to become more
hard working and civilized ?
Or are they going to help the malays in uttering "racial riots" all the
time ?
>Did you get the idea somewhere that I support quotas for "Bumiputras"?
if you do not support the quotas, then I salute you. But what i am
saying is most malays do support it
based on voting trends, or are you saying the voting trend is false ?
>Um, I look in the mirror every day, and I'm not a Malaysian nor living
>in Malaysia.
If you are not a malaysian or not even living here, are you qualified
to know what is the truth here ? Who is the complete idiot here?.
It is just like me saying that white australians are racist even though
I am not in australia or an australian citizen just by reading some
reports.
>Look, you're a complete idiot because on the one hand, you say that
>when a majority opposes a law it can be changed, and on the other
>hand, you've gotten it branded into your brain that Malays are all
l>azy, stupid, and uncivilized. Since they're the majority, unless
>people like you stop regarding them all as permanent, implacable
>enemies and antagonizing them with undisguised bigotry, you'll never
>get anywhere, except perhaps out of the country.
So remaining quiet will solve all the injustices.
did mahatma gandhi remain quiet ?
Did the negros in america remain quiet ?
Did lee kuan yew remain quiet?
I can go on and on.
You are the biggest bigot and idiot here. This is my last reply to
people who cannot look into the mirror.
I don't mind arguing with intelligent people who can reason properly
but that person is certainly not you !
Jack.
how come the very poor indians or chinese do not get any support?
i know xman may be quite emotional, but he made some salient points.
if support is given, support should be given to all the lowest 10% of the
income bracket regardless of race. i've read articles some months ago about
how there are extremely poor indians in malaysia who do not get any form of
support their malay counterparts get.
just a bit confused about this point. wonder if anyone could explain this.
cheers.
jack.
xman
Something smells fishy here. A non-malaysian who is not living in
malaysia can speak malay ?
You are not only a bigot, idiot but also a liar ! And know how to speak
satu, dua does not
mean you can speak malay !!
ignoramus
Pan is an American. He spent part of his childhood in Malaysia.
ignoramus
>well, sorry to butt in, but just to straighten this out:
>
>how come the very poor indians or chinese do not get any support?
>i know xman may be quite emotional, but he made some salient points.
<snipped>
Whatever salient points xman may have made has been obscured by his
approach in conveying them.
Just my RM0.02.
intruder
>
>Telling the truth is not bigotry but denying the truth is.'
That is rightly said, but how do one knows whether one is denying the
truth?
>
>If I say that malays are intelligent, hard working and civilized, do
>you think that those foreigners and majority of non-malays who
>know malaysia well will laugh ?
ask.
>
>While intelligence cannot be changed as it depends on genes but hard
>workingness and civilized manner can be changed.
You must be in denial yourself. Intelligence may not be changed, but
but the lack of intelligence cannot be attributed to the Malay race,
whatever that may be.
Using your reasoning you are a bigot/
>Do you think that those racist policies helps the malays to become more
>hard working and civilized ?
I truely think it is not the right one, but it was necessary after
1963/
>Or are they going to help the malays in uttering "racial riots" all the
>time ?
I hope not.
>
>
>
>If you are not a malaysian or not even living here, are you qualified
>to know what is the truth here ? Who is the complete idiot here?.
>It is just like me saying that white australians are racist even though
>I am not in australia or an australian citizen just by reading some
>reports.
That is a fact!
>
>
xman
> Whatever salient points xman may have made has been obscured by his
> approach in conveying them.
>
And I presume that all those nice words that the malays are
hardworking,
civilized and intelligent are going to change things ? What has changed
after 35 years of telling malay telling the malay themselves all those
nice but not true words ?
So you are saying that whatever truth I said is going to be invalidated
due to my frankness ?
xman
> Pan is an American. He spent part of his childhood in Malaysia.
Thank you for explaining. I don't care whether he is an american or
malaysian but his comments all point to bigotry and biasness. So I
won't
bother to reply to him again. It is really unfortunate, because
i have found a few americans are really very nice.
ignoramus
It was lost in transmission. Siaran tergendala. Get it?
intruder
So have many Westeners but that does not mean they really can claim
speak Malay. Maybe Pasar Malayu, but not Malay.
intruder
>
>I also need to add that the filipinos are basically of the
>malayo-polynesian race and basic english proficiency itself is not
>enough for the success of a country.
>Intelligence is also one of the
>other factor.
Are you implying that also those filipinos are stupid.
Why are Indians poor? Is that because they are stupid or have a wrong
religion or culture.
Or maybe, just maybe the answer is just to complex for you to grasp!
<Before you give examples of successful filipino and so
>on, remember there are filipino chinese and filipino mixed race
>(spanish/american).
Remember there are poor Albanians too without being mixed.
alex
xman wrote:
>
>
> I didn't label the whole malay race as ..... , I am saying the majority
> !
> Just like there are stupid chinese/indians like you but they are the
> minority !
>
You started this thread with a bunch of statements saying Malays are:
blah blah blah.
You didn't give any exceptions until somewhere along the line when
everyone dropped in and called you an idiot...then you started changing
and saying minority and stuff....but that's not really important.
Look...you've called every single person who replied to your post as
stupid whether they are Malay, Chinese, or European or Indian. But
everyone who replied to you thinks you are retarded and
stupid....doesn't that tell you something? Wait, let me guess...you are
the kind of person who thinks that if everyone's against you, the reason
can't *possibly* be that you're a asshole. There's obviously a
conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire net a favor by
exposing it.
> Well, at least now there is somebody with a little bit of intelligence
> writing here instead of some assholes who likes to berate but doesn't
> put forth any valid arguments. Typical malays !
>
> China was the world's largest economy before the UK and the US, and was
> the
> world most technological advanced country before then. The decline of
> the china was due to many reasons, one of which was an incapable govt
> who did not want to open up the country.
>
> I think you yourself should get acquainted with their history in depth
> before looking at it from a shallow view. And isn't china now catching
> up, it is already one of the largest economy now in the world. Go and
> ask prominent people who will be the dominant country (or 2nd) in years
> to come.
> Even president bush has to beg the chinese to revalue their yuan.
The fact is China was a shitty country for the last century or so. It's
only started getting better in the last few years. So for the last
century or so...the chinese were stupid, lazy and uncivilised?
>
>> [snip]
>
>
> I am just giving the people here an example here. A person working in a
> bank does not know what is Fixed deposit ? I think it must be the
> laughing stock in the world. It is just like going to a bakery, and the
> person does not know what the word "bread" is in english in a
> multiracial country that was governed by the british in the past .
> There are a lot of examples besides this, go to maybank and see for
> yourself. But then you will never admit, right ? To you, the malays
> are all intelligent and knowledgeable.
>
I was just telling you that the examples you are giving lack substance.
And no, I dont think Malays are all intelligent and knowlegeable, I
think they are just the same as the rest of the human race. All men are
created equal.
> It seems that you are trying to hate me instead of putting forth valid
> arguments, so what does that make you ? If you go to one of those
> savage tribes, do you think they will talk reason ? So where do you
> belong ?
>
Hate you? Umm... why?? You think too highly of yourself if you think
that I'll feel anything for some anonymous person writing stuff on the
internet. You're just an outlet for entertainment and boredom to me.
>
>
> You are quite bad-tempered, aren't you?
> They do not speak english fluently (not in the sense of the europeans),
> they know only basic english. Besides, their basic english proficiency
> has enabled them to migrate to western countries easier and enabled
> them to obtain jobs like in singapore easier than the indonesian maids.
> Their low standard of living is due to other factors.
>
They speak fluent english. You only think it isn't fluent cos it has a
different slang to what you're used to. Hmm...how many filipinos do you
know :) ? You keep attributing low standard of living to ambigous
factors but you are very quick to label the Malays as stupid, lazy and
uncivilised based on some superflous examples. Everyone's trying to tell
you that but you just won't listen. Look this is an internet forum where
people come for debates and exchanges of ideas. How highly you are rated
here is based on how you can get people to accept your point of view.
You're not having any luck at all there. Try harder.
> But I guess you are not smart enough to understand this point ? Does it
> sound logical to you now ?
>
I would have to say that I know just as many Chinese who can't speak
English as I do Malays who can't speak English so I just can't agree
with you. Though even if ALL the Malays I knew couldn't speak English I
still wouldn't use that single fact to judge their intelligence. Sorry I
don't judge people's intelligence based on how many languages they can
speak. Most of the Chinese genius [from china] in Math that I read about
in the papers probably can't speak English.
>
>
> As usual you are cheated by the propaganda by the racist govt. It is
> just like saying, let us say, I am your poor neighbour (a malay) and
> you are a rich chinese/indian, do I have the right to kill you just
> because you are rich by legal means (not by stealing etc).
Nope you have no right to kill me. Just like the Indonesian had no right
killing the Chinese living there just because they were poor and the
Chinese were rich. Since we all now know what is right and wrong....tell
me now....does it matter now to those dead Chinese that they were killed
wrongfully??? That the people who killed them were wrong ???? Maybe you
can send an email to their families telling them that the Indonesians
had no right killing their relatives.
Does that
> mean that a poor person can have the right to rob a rich person, look
> at all those snatch thiefs, almost all of them are exclusively malay,
> and I think you must be applauding them right now for snatching from
> the rich because they are poor!
>
> If you still feel that the laws are justified, then I want to be your
> neighbour so that I can plunder you.
That's the beauty of what Mahathir has done. If you were my neighbour
you wont want to plunder me....because Mahathir has ensured that the
Malays now have a full belly, nice houses...nice cars....good
clothes.....he created a large number of middle class....and middle
class people do not kill or plunder. That's why you and your family are
living in peace here in Malaysia. You cannot understand that because you
look only at one side of the equation. You only think about the
negatives but totally ignore the positives because you have lived to
comfortably in your small shell.
> Poor and starving ? As usual, either you are living in a shell, or want
> to twist facts. You mean you have NEVER seen a poor chinese/indian ?
> So-called affirmative actions should be performed for all poor races of
> all citizens not just one single race.
>
Yes I never said the affirmative actions were perfect. It has many many
flaws. Most of us know that. Did you not see people like Azura pointing
out it's flaws? But can you see what good it has done??? Or are you too
timid to look out of that little shell you're living in?
> Poor and starving ? Go to those expensive KFC etc and see who the
> majority of eaters there are ? When I was young, my parents couldn't
> even afford me to eat at those places. Even now, my relatives cannot
> even afford to go there.
>
> You yourself have proven one fact in the indonesian case that the
> malays are stupid, easily fooled and uncivilized by initiating racial
> riots. Need I say more ?
>
Umm...is there a point to this?
> [snip]
>
> Brilliant ? Or a racist and a tyrant?
>
> How do you explain the declining standard of our university ranking.
> How do you explain the declining value of the malaysian currency.
> How do you explain the rising costs of all essential goods.
> How do you explain the brain drain and migration of non-malays.
> How do you explain the lousy english proficiency of the general
> population as compared to 1957?
> How do you explain the ... I can go on and on. But you do not want to
> hear , right ?
>
You ask me many questions...I ask you one....is our standard of living
MUCH MUCH better than it was in 1957?
> Singapore and malaysia went out on the same footing, just compare the 2
> countries and you will see the difference.
Nope they are not on the same footing. Lee Kuan Yew only had to manage
2+ million people. Mahathir had to manage 20+ million people. That's the
difference.
>
> Mahathir was the PM when foreign investments poured into SEA during the
> 90s, the success of the country is not soley because of him. After
> 1997, is the position of the country much better even under his
> leadership ? I must admit though that he is smarter than the average
> malay but definitely not brilliant as you claim him to be. Look at how
> korea recovered after 1997.
I dont think you are able to appreciate what Mahathir has done so I rest
my case.
>
>
>>I am not saying the system is perfect. Azura has also pointed this
>
> out
>
>>to you. The system has it's flaws like the cronies and those mercs
>>driving scholarship students :P and those that you have pointed
>>out...like those qualified academically being sidelined ..... but the
>
>
>>question is....are you willing to acknowledge the peace it has given
>
> you
>
>>and your family?
>
Why do you never answer any of my questions :( I try my best to answer
all of yours :P.
>
>
> As I have said, jealous race threatening other races to maintain peace
> is what people would call a "bully". Just compare to those gangsters
> who collect "protection money" from the hawkers there in china. Is this
> legal in most countries ? But I gues you are supporting gangsterism too
> by supporting these policies?
Despite the many flaws in these policies, I am able to appreciate the
positive aspects from it. I enjoy living in Malaysia, these policies do
not hinder me much getting a comfortable and enjoyable life here. If it
was gangsterism :) i don't think I'll feel like that. You could always
try voting them out of of power if you can't migrate.
>
> The way to eliminate is through proper public education and
> understanding and helping out the poor from all races !!! Or is that
> alien to you and the malays ? If it is , then go back to see the title
> of this subject.
I agree we need to help the poor from all races. So what have you done
to help them besides opening your big mouth on this forum?
xman
>Are you implying that also those filipinos are stupid.
>Why are Indians poor? Is that because they are stupid or have a wrong
>religion or culture.
>Or maybe, just maybe the answer is just to complex for you to grasp!
If I say filipinos are very intelligent , would you be happy that I am
lying ?
Did I say that a rich country means the people are intelligent ?
Whether a country is rich or not depends on a lot of factor. Is that
something that is hard to grasp for you and the others here?
You can read about the past world histories for why certain empires
rise and fall, you will know the reasons then.
Basically, intelligence can be measured by school grades (among others)
and iq test. High IQ is not proportionate to higher wealth. Einstein
was not the richest man in the world.
Just ask the education ministry, which race performs the poorest in
malaysia and singapore ?
Of course, you can argue that they are lazy (finally admitting) but
just by testing their learning ability and response time, you will be
able to gauge their IQ.
Indians to my knowledge are quite intelligent people. I won't twist
facts like some of the bigots here.
I am not from india, so how do I know why that country is poor ? But I
guess (just guess) it must be because of disunity
and corruption. And isnt india growing very fast right now ?
I repeat here. Intelligence is not proportionate to wealth, unlike what
certain bigots here say.
And I did not back down from my earlier words unlike those what those
assholes say.
I have seen quite a lot of stupid people getting rich (especially in
malaysia) due to cronyism, racism, corruption.
>Remember there are poor Albanians too without being mixed.
What is your point here?
xman
Whether he can speak pasar melayu or malay is not my concern, he might
be a malay who migrated to america.
Not much respect for people like him, those who always twist facts. And
the feeling is mutual I am sure.
someone
We refer to your essay in
news:1103087922.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com with the title of
"Malays are lazy, stupid and uncivilized".
Your effort in coming up with a theory towards categorizing the whole Malay
lot - as to what your title implied - is highly noted and appreciated.
Academicians who can educate, foster relations, and work towards the
betterment of the society - like you - are what we wanted, are trying, and
strive for to produce. Well, it seems, that is what we are doing - trying to
produce - with you. At least the peers who are going through and validating
your theory are working towards that while you are going nowhere at the
moment.
We do have to comment that the grounds of your arguments are so shaky, it
does not even reflect the impressive years of research, observation, and
experience that you implied of having throughout your essay and arguments.
At best, your essay, arguments, and opponents have shown over and over again
how ignorant you are towards the impressive and cummulative years of
research, observation, and experience of your fellow peers through your
outright rejection of their participation.
Eventhough you don't have the mark of someone who can argue intelligibly, it
is hoped that you would stay and continue to contribute towards making this
theory accepted while staying out of embarassing arguments at it. And
please, do not transgress unnecessarily further from where you started:
leading your peers away from your original title is a surefire way of
getting your theory being disapproved and rejected much earlier than
anticipated.
signed
x
___________
someone.
proudly made of wholesome malay goodness, minus the bigotry.
"out of sheer stupidity and this rioting feeling inside, i forgot that i am
supposed to be lazy to respond to any uncivilized, gibberish writing on the
net."
"xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103087922.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Malays are
>
> Lazy:
> -----
>
> Stupid:
> ------
>
> Uncivilized:
> -----------
>
>
Pan
[snip]
>Basically, intelligence can be measured by school grades (among others)
>and iq test. High IQ is not proportionate to higher wealth. Einstein
>was not the richest man in the world.
[snip]
He also failed arithmetic.
A lot other than intelligence goes into one's grades, let alone the
results of IQ tests, which have been clearly shown to correlate with
being a member of certain ethnic groups and coming from a family with
a higher income and education level.
Pan
I don't see anyone in this thread arguing that poor "non-Bumiputras"
shouldn't be given help. What seems to be more important to xman is
that Azura is a Malay, and therefore "uncivilized." :-P
Best,
Pan
>>
>> Whatever salient points xman may have made has been obscured by his
>> approach in conveying them.
>>
>
>And I presume that all those nice words that the malays are
>hardworking,
>civilized and intelligent are going to change things ?
No, it would only be an acknowledgement of the truth that many Malays
are in fact hardworking, "civilized" (whatever that means), and
intelligent.
> What has changed
>after 35 years of telling malay telling the malay themselves all those
>nice but not true words ?
They've become rich enough to relegate hard labor to illegal
immigrants and so forth; they've become successful businesspeople in
large numbers (mostly in small business); many more of them have gone
into the professions; they're way more highly educated and connected
to the rest of the world; the kampung food is of incomparably higher
quality; they own cars or if not cars, motorcycles; they're part of a
society that while of course still problematic in various ways is very
highly developed compared to what it was, and they played a part in
that. Etc.
>So you are saying that whatever truth I said is going to be invalidated
>due to my frankness ?
That remark just provides further evidence of your stupidity,
regardless of what you may have scored on IQ tests. Reread the quoted
sentence above.
intruder
>
>Whether he can speak pasar melayu or malay is not my concern, he might
>be a malay who migrated to america.
He might be, but he is not.
He is an American Jew who has very good childhood memories amongst the
Malays who has treated him very well.
>Not much respect for people like him,
Why, just because he has an opossing view?
> those who always twist facts.
He is not twisting facts, has another view that is all. A view I do
not entirely agree with.
> And
>the feeling is mutual I am sure.
Never be so sure.
intruder
<traptinne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:17:46 +0100, intruder <mark_i...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>Pan is an American. He spent part of his childhood in Malaysia.
>>So have many Westeners but that does not mean they really can claim
>>speak Malay. Maybe Pasar Malayu, but not Malay.
>
>Which one do you think is the national language, sport?
>
>There was a deliberate decision to adopt Pasar Melayu in 1967, rather than
>formal Melayu.
Never knew that, I just thought the Bahasa Kebangsaan was the Formal
Malayu language. Guess I was wrong!
>
>cheers,
>
>Paul Saccani
>Perth West Australia
intruder
>
>>Are you implying that also those filipinos are stupid.
>>Why are Indians poor? Is that because they are stupid or have a wrong
>>religion or culture.
>>Or maybe, just maybe the answer is just to complex for you to grasp!
>
>If I say filipinos are very intelligent , would you be happy that I am
>lying ?
What you believe does not influence my emotions about hapiness and
sadness. I is just a discussion in a threat, which alas sometime does
get personal.
>Did I say that a rich country means the people are intelligent ?
No, but you may imply that given what you have written.
>
>Whether a country is rich or not depends on a lot of factor.
I sure believe so.
>Is that
>something that is hard to grasp for you and the others here?
No.
>You can read about the past world histories for why certain empires
>rise and fall, you will know the reasons then.
Give me a hint for there are many reasons. Ar
>Basically, intelligence can be measured by school grades (among others)
>and iq test.
Basically yes.
High IQ is not proportionate to higher wealth. Einstein
>was not the richest man in the world.
No, but if use properly as a society is just might do it.
>
>Just ask the education ministry, which race performs the poorest in
>malaysia and singapore ?
It is rather obvious, and as you claimed that race (I rather call it
an ethnic group) is the Malay.
But I do counter your claim that it is due to genetic intelligence.
>Of course, you can argue that they are lazy (finally admitting) but
>just by testing their learning ability and response time, you will be
>able to gauge their IQ.
>
>Indians to my knowledge are quite intelligent people. I won't twist
>facts like some of the bigots here.
So can be Malays.
>I am not from india, so how do I know why that country is poor ?
I suppose you read some literature about it, the Economist Fact Book
or whatever.
> But I
>guess (just guess) it must be because of disunity
>and corruption.
That is my guess to. How about saying the Malays are poor due to
their way of living and culture and even religion, without associating
it to intelligence inherited through genes?
And isnt india growing very fast right now ?
Yes, it is indeed growing very fast. Wasn't Malaysia growing very fast
since the 1980's?
>
>I repeat here. Intelligence is not proportionate to wealth, unlike what
>certain bigots here say.
Please do not call the name they use on you. It clouds you fair and
honest opinion.
>And I did not back down from my earlier words unlike those what those
>assholes say.
>I have seen quite a lot of stupid people getting rich (especially in
>malaysia) due to cronyism, racism, corruption.
In India that is exactly the case. Maybe the same about China.
>
>>Remember there are poor Albanians too without being mixed.
>What is your point here?
We strayed from the original point here.
You claimed the following:
------------------------------------------------------------
" basic english proficiency itself is not
enough for the success of a country. Intelligence is also one of the
other factor"
Before you give examples of successful filipino and so
on, remember there are filipino chinese and filipino mixed race
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I mixed up success with the wealth of a nation. However, you do
imply that intelligence has to do with race, by exerting that
successfull filiponos are not pure filipinos but of mixed blood.
This can be understood as if filipino's and malays (to some belonging
to the same race) are just less intelligent!
Is that what you claim?
Pan
>I must admit I have never been to terengganu. I must ask my non-malay
>friends from kelantan, terengganu
>as to how hard-working they are there.
Why don't you just go and visit? If you don't treat the locals as
uncivilized but respect them and their customs, they'll probably treat
you well.
>I can only judge based on my years of observation of the malays in the
>cities like klang valley and penang.
>Go and see who is loitering around shopping centres when they should be
>in school ?
Yeah, so some Malays are loitering. What gives you the right to
generalize? If you think that no Malays care about their studies,
that's just further proof of your idiocy.
>So you are saying that the malays in kelantan, terengganu are hard
>working and the malays in cities are
>all a bunch of lazy people ?
No, I do not say that Malays in cities are all lazy. That's what
stupid people like you say.
> If you say the majority of the malays are
>hard-working, I think I would have to vomit.
I haven't done some kind of statistical study measuring people on a
laziness-to-hardworking scale. But of course, neither have you.
>For that to invalidate the statements of the british people, the
>non-malays and mahathir himself.
>Go and read his umno speeches.
>Never read the "malay dilemma" written by that guy himself whether he
>mentioned malay are lazy. But I guess
>mahathir won't lie about his own race if it was not true, right ?
Wrong! I read the Malay Dilemma perhaps before you were born, and it's
one of the biggest pieces of racist garbage I've ever read, but it
told me a lot about Mahathir.
>Either that, or you are a bloody liar and a bigot who cannot admit the
>truth.
Just who am I bigoted against, you fool?
>>WRONG! Those are bureaucrats and clerical workers! Complaining about
>>the incompetence and lousy work ethic of bureaucrats and clerical
>>workers is commonplace in many countries and often inherent to the
>>particular conditions in that sector.
>
>Ha..ha.. Whenever I go to foreign countries, I find their govt workers
>are much more capable.
>If you need an example, go to singapore and observe yourself ! Don't
>just give false justification.
>I am not living in a shell as I have travelled in many countries.
Have you spoken with Italian and French people about their postal
services? How about talking to Americans about bureaucracy?
Singapore is an exceptional place in many ways. But I'm sure if you're
so highly qualified, they'd welcome you, so maybe you'd be happier
moving there.
>>Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered to me whether they speak English,
>>because I speak Malay. Don't you?
>
>So i guess next time a foreigner comes to malaysia, you will be around
>to translate for him?
Maybe they're more willing to speak English with foreigners. Besides,
as long as there's _someone_ in a bank (etc.) to speak English with
foreigners, that's fine. I think a lot of travellers understand that
not everyone will speak English in countries where that's not the
native language. It seems to me that some Malaysian citizens are a
little more upset about that, which strikes me as dubious. Just how
good, I repeat, is your Malay?
>I remembered once when I met this filipino and he told me, there is no
>point of building the world's
>tallest building when most of the population cannot even speak basic
>english.
[snip]
It's a good point, but is it really the case that most people in big
West-Coast cities like KL don't speak basic English? If he was talking
about the East Coast, I'd tend to agree.
>>Yes, that is neo-Colonialist, but non-Bumiputras are also involved in
>>exploiting the Orang Asli. Anyway, if you're wrong, does it
>>automatically follow that Malay bigots are right? How about settling
>>on non-bigotry as a good compromise?
>
>So you are admitting yourself to be a colonist now
Huh?
> , since you yourself
>used colonist in such
>a degrading manner in your previous post. But then when you are a
>colonist, it sounds better right ?
>Isn't that bigotry ?
What the hell are you talking about?
[snip]
>If I say that malays are intelligent, hard working and civilized, do
>you think that those foreigners and majority of non-malays who
>know malaysia well will laugh ?
No.
>While intelligence cannot be changed
I doubt the truth of that statement.
> as it depends on genes
Only partly, I'd argue:
Main Entry: in·tel·li·gence
Pronunciation: in-'te-l&-j&n(t)s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin
intelligentia, from intelligent-, intelligens intelligent
1 a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or
trying situations : REASON; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the
ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think
abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests) b Christian
Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind c : mental
acuteness : SHREWDNESS
2 a : an intelligent entity; especially : ANGEL b : intelligent minds
or mind <cosmic intelligence>
3 : the act of understanding : COMPREHENSION
4 a : INFORMATION, NEWS b : information concerning an enemy or
possible enemy or an area; also : an agency engaged in obtaining such
information
5 : the ability to perform computer functions
Do you think that the ability to learn or understand or deal with new
or trying situations cannot be taught to some extent?
> but hard
>workingness and civilized manner can be changed.
>Do you think that those racist policies helps the malays to become more
>hard working and civilized ?
I think that by necessity, Malays worked a lot harder in the 70s, when
they were poorer and had to do back-breaking labor. But now, they
study harder - excepting the loiterers you notice in malls, I suppose.
I don't know what you mean by "civilized" and don't know how to
measure "civilization." If you use psuedo-scientific
cultural-evolutionist categories developed by racist whites in the
19th century, no Asians are "civilized." Of course, that's utter
hogwash. If you're measuring degrees of "civilization" by how
connected a people is with the rest of the world, there's no question
that Malaysians generally, including Malays, are "more civilized." If
you're measuring this in terms of behavior or thinking, I consider you
rather uncivilized (~kurang ajar) but don't know how or why one would
apply such a yardstick to an entire large group of people.
>Or are they going to help the malays in uttering "racial riots" all the
>time ?
_That_ can reasonably be called uncivilized behavior. But to be fair,
haven't MCA politicians also raised that spectre? I guess that means
Chinese are also "uncivilized"? Or is it more true that BN politicians
are uncivilized?
>>Did you get the idea somewhere that I support quotas for "Bumiputras"?
>
>if you do not support the quotas, then I salute you. But what i am
>saying is most malays do support it
>based on voting trends, or are you saying the voting trend is false ?
What does that have to do with me? You think of everything in
stereotypes, instead of addressing each person as an individual.
That's a good definition of a racist.
>>Um, I look in the mirror every day, and I'm not a Malaysian nor living
>>in Malaysia.
>
>If you are not a malaysian or not even living here, are you qualified
>to know what is the truth here ?
You conceded that you have never once set foot in Terengganu or
Kelantan. So who among the two of us is more qualified to comment on
the hardworking, intelligent, civilized Malays there?
> Who is the complete idiot here?.
That would be you.
>It is just like me saying that white australians are racist even though
>I am not in australia or an australian citizen just by reading some
>reports.
No, it would be like your having spent two years of childhood as part
of an Australian village while your mother was doing extensive and
intensive anthropological studies that won numerous awards, and then
returning years later to visit the community and your old classmates
in the local public school.
>>Look, you're a complete idiot because on the one hand, you say that
>>when a majority opposes a law it can be changed, and on the other
>>hand, you've gotten it branded into your brain that Malays are all
>l>azy, stupid, and uncivilized. Since they're the majority, unless
>>people like you stop regarding them all as permanent, implacable
>>enemies and antagonizing them with undisguised bigotry, you'll never
>>get anywhere, except perhaps out of the country.
>
>So remaining quiet will solve all the injustices.
>did mahatma gandhi remain quiet ?
>Did the negros in america remain quiet ?
>Did lee kuan yew remain quiet?
>I can go on and on.
Did any of those people accuse all of the members of x ethnic group of
being lazy, stupid, and uncivilized? Did Gandhi appeal to the moral
consciences of Britons, or did he say that they were all idiots? Did
Martin Luther King, Jr. tell whites to fuck off because they had
benefited from racism, or did he welcome all who felt it in their
consciences to fight for justice and appeal to their common humanity?
You think to compare yourself to the prophets and moral leaders of the
20th century? Thanks for the laughs!
>You are the biggest bigot and idiot here. This is my last reply to
>people who cannot look into the mirror.
>I don't mind arguing with intelligent people who can reason properly
>but that person is certainly not you !
I love you, too. :-P
Pan
>
>Something smells fishy here. A non-malaysian who is not living in
>malaysia can speak malay ?
Unbelievable, huh?
>You are not only a bigot, idiot but also a liar ! And know how to speak
>satu, dua does not
>mean you can speak malay !!
You're showing a lot about your lack of intelligence here. You just
can't imagine any foreigner being able to speak Malay!
Mu orang bodoh macam lembu!
Pan
<mark_i...@hotmail.com> wrote:
How do _you_ define "Malay"?
I speak Terengganu-accented Malay and spoke Bahasa Terengganu as a
child.
alex
xman wrote:
>>Did Mahathir not call for bumi rights to be reduced and eventually
>>abolished? What about Pak Lah? Aren't they top and ex- top leaders of
>
> UMNO?
>
> I don't know whether it is just a show or not to please the non-malays.
>
You claimed : 'Whether you are UMNO, PAS, keadilan, I have
never seen any leader that who says the so-called
bumi rights should be abolished.'
I just gave you two examples and now you you try to beat around the
bush. But it just goes to show how clueless you are that you didn't even
know that two of the highest ranking UMNO members in Malaysia has spoken
about reducing dependance on govt. aid.
> But what matters is that the racist policies still exists.
> I remember suqiu asked for the rights to be abolished and yet UMNo
> threatened to burn down the building.
Whoa stop right there. Whenever did UMNO threaten to burn down the
buildings??? Just because some members of UMNO *might* have threatened
to doesn't mean that it was a threat from the whole organisation and
that it has the blessings of those in power.
> As UMNO president, if he was sincere, did he not protest ? Instead he
> called them extremists.
> So are you clever enough to see how double faced he is !
>
> But I guess you would support this uncivilized behaviour right ?
>
He wanted to win the upcoming elections. Mahathir has been known to play
his favourite race card prior to elections. However I do not doubt that
Mahathir is sincere in wanting to see his people compete with the rest
on an equal footing. What he wants ultimately and what he does to
achieve his aims are completely two different things. Do you think that
he'll get elected as UMNO president if he forces the abolishment of the
NEP down all the other members? He knows he has to *win the election*
first...then slowly get them to be less dependent.
Are you clever enough to see this?
>
> [snip]
>
> Please see my arguments above as to the flaw in your logic. You do not
> really
> know what is the meaning of "racist" right ? Go and look up in the
> dictionary and
What arguments have you given above?
> compare the behaviour of our govt and see whether they are racist in
> your definition.
>
> If I was racist , I would say give special privileges to the
> chinese/indian only regardless of
> whether they are poor or rich. But what I am saying now is that give
> affirmative action to poor people
> regardless of their race.
Hey I totally agree man. I think all the poor should be helped. MIC
should be doing more for the hardcore poor Indians.
>So does that make you a troll ?
Does what make me a troll?? Do you know what a troll means on internet
forums? Ok a troll is someone who purposely starts a stupid/
inflammatory thread to get a barrage of replies from lots of people.
After that he just keeps silent and laughs while people argue back and
forth about nothing.
I guess I was wrong then. Sorry you're not a troll. You don't post
stupid/ inflammatory comments to bait readers...you just post them cos
you're retarded.
>
>
>
>>If you really hate the system that much, you could always .....migrate
>
>
>>somewhere else :) . Let me guess..... not smart enough to get a decent
>
>
>>paying job and not enough money to migrate. Guess you're stuck here
>
> then
>
> As usual, this is one of those uncivilized people who talk nonsense, if
> you don't like a system whether it is justified or not,
> just LEAVE.
>
> Why don't I give an example, if I were to move into your neighbour's
> house and I rear a fierce dog to snarl at you everytime you
> enter your house and I blast my speakers out loud even after midnight
> and if you don't like it, YOU CAN MOVE OUT.
> Isn't that one of the behaviour of "uncivilized".
>
I would call the police to and get you charged for disturbing the peace.
After that I'd poison your dog. However if the building belonged you and
you only charged me RM1 to rent it a month, I'd be willing to bear it
and not call the police. I'd still secretly poison your dog though.
> I think you forgot to read my credentials as to my earlier post or
> couldn't bother to read.
> Getting a decent paying job or rich in malaysia does not mean you are
> smart, I can give you many examples of idiotic
> managers who was promoted in malaysia mainly due to their skin color.
> do you think they can even write a decent paragraph?
> The next time you see a police inspector having many wifes and houses,
> ask whether they practise corruption ?
>
Malaysia is ranked 39 on the Global Corruption Perception Index. China
ranks 71. Taiwan is slightly above Malaysia at 35. Lots of chinese
practicing corruption in these places too, probably inspectors with many
wives and houses. So what was the point you are trying to give with your
examples of corruption?
> Anyway, I am speaking out against the injustices of this country and
> not for myself. I am not as selfish as MCA/Gerakan/MIC
> who only cares for their relationship with UMNO to get rich.
>
> So you are also saying that lee kuan yew and lim kit siang are not
> smart or have decent pay to voice out against the injustices ?
Oh pleaseeeeee...you're not fooling anyone here comparing yourself with
LKY and LKS. You're probably just a spoilt little brat who got a chip on
his shoulder about the Malays. Voicing out injustice with an anonymous
handle like x-man, and you wanna be the saviour of the *oppressed*
chinese here.....don't make me laugh.
> Or you are too stupid enough to know what was the real circumstances
> behind the eviction of singapore in 1965?
>
What has that got to do with anything?
> Did the blacks in south africa migrate because of apartheid there ? Did
> the negros migrate because of racist policies in america in the past ?
Nope, the Black South Africans voted the Whites out of power. Funny you
should mention South Africa considering it's a good example about what
might have happened in Malaysia without the policies adopted by
Mahathir. South Africa was a nation where the minority controlled 90+%
of the nations wealth and did not want to share it. There was constant
hostilities between both parties and blood was shed for a long time and
finally now the majority are in power, thankfully in a relatively
peaceful way. The point you should note here is *BLOOD WAS SHED*. It's
similar to what happened in Indonesia. If only Suharto was smart enough
to enforce policies like Mahathir and narrowed the economic equity gap
between the Chinese indonesians and the locals....the thousands of
chinese killed/ raped/ murdered during the riots a few years ago could
have been avoided. IT doesnt matter that these Chinese never did
anything wrong....the DEAD and their relatives don't cares about right
or wrong when riots happen and innocents are killed. What's more
important is to ensure that these riots will never happen. And that's
the point you're always missing. These affirmative policies might
disadvantage the chinese...but it's not oppresive as they could have
been, thank god. At the end of the day, do you not think it's a very
very small price to pay for racial harmony and peace in Malaysia? Would
you have it like Indonesia?
You like giving examples right? Let me give you one. You are a Chinese
living in a foreign country of Purple men [imaginary race]. You are
rich, smart and business oriented. You have been granted citizenship.
You own 99% of the economic wealth in this country because no one is as
smart as u in business. The ruler is your best friend cos you always
shower him with gifts. He lets you do business without ANY restrictions.
You continue growing richer. The whole race of 5 million purple men live
in poverty except for a few hundred or so who work for you in high
positions. The rest starve or are close to starvation. The king doesn't
do anything to help them businesswise and let's them compete fairly
because he's afraid you might call him a racist. Of course none of the
purple men are able to compete with you, not because you are smarter,
but because you have more economic power to outprice competition and
because of your incredible head start, both in terms of education, money
and business knowledge.
One day, one of the smarter purple men decide to rouse his fellow
purplemen into a rioting frenzy by telling them the only reason you're
rich and they are poor is because you cheated them. Of course this is an
outright lie cos you are completely honest. However these purplemen
believe the leader who promised them that once you are gone they could
take over your business, your money and buy food. They are starving and
so they riot, burn your house, rape your wife and daughters, castrate
your sons and finally tear you into pieces. I'm sure you died in comfort
knowing you were right and they were wrong...that they were not
justified in killing you. I'm sure you died full of love for your best
friend the purple king, who did nothing for his purplemen and allowed
you to practice your business in a fair environment.
>
> Let me guess, you are one of the stupid chinese right ? A rich chinese
> whose father could send you to one of the lousy university in UK but
> doesn't know the sufferings of your own compatriots or couldn't care
> less ?
I know about their sufferings. I also know about their blessings because
I know they and their ancestors had a much better/ comfortable time here
than our compatriots in China.
Look, if it's any comfort to you, the affirmative policies won't last
forever. The govt. has already realised that these policies have helped
the Malays about as far as it can go. The next step requires them to
develop self dependency but this cannot be done overnight. Any UMNO
leader who strongly campaigns for it's abolishment will be voted out
because at the end of the day we're all human, and who doesn't like
freebies. But more and more of the upcoming new generation of Malays
have already realised that these *crutches* have to go if they want to
compete globablly. If you had paid more attention you would have noted
many saying so on this forum.
intruder
>On 18 Dec 2004 19:34:12 -0800, "xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>Basically, intelligence can be measured by school grades (among others)
>>and iq test. High IQ is not proportionate to higher wealth. Einstein
>>was not the richest man in the world.
>[snip]
>
>He also failed arithmetic.
Nope, that is a myth which has somehow survived so long.
>
>A lot other than intelligence goes into one's grades, let alone the
>results of IQ tests, which have been clearly shown to correlate with
>being a member of certain ethnic groups and coming from a family with
>a higher income and education level.
Indeed!
norazlan
"> >
> > Anyway, why should you guys get any rights ? The real locals are the
> > "orang asli" who are very different people from you malays, they speak
> > different languages and have different culture. You guys are basically
> > immigrants from indonesia.
>
Hello Stupid
Malay penisula is ruled and control by the various Malay empire streching
from Southern Thailand and Eastern Sumatra.The Sakai and other ethnic
minority have no control of these place.We will REMAIN in CONTROL
and i warn you do not try to REWRITE the HISTORY
You BASTRAD
jay
what a freaking buffoon. lmao. try to be intelligent and get bitch
slapped two ways to sundays. lmao.
have you passed your arithmetic yet. or is it a myth as you have
claimed?
stick to acch oohc and oh, monkey.
intruder
>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:29:59 +0100, intruder
><mark_i...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:09:29 +0800, Paul Saccani
>><traptinne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:17:46 +0100, intruder <mark_i...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Pan is an American. He spent part of his childhood in Malaysia.
>>>>So have many Westeners but that does not mean they really can claim
>>>>speak Malay. Maybe Pasar Malayu, but not Malay.
>>>
>>>Which one do you think is the national language, sport?
>>>
>>>There was a deliberate decision to adopt Pasar Melayu in 1967, rather than
>>>formal Melayu.
>>Never knew that, I just thought the Bahasa Kebangsaan was the Formal
>>Malayu language. Guess I was wrong!
>
>
>what a freaking buffoon. lmao. try to be intelligent and get bitch
>slapped two ways to sundays. lmao.
Hey, cannot stand you were called a faggot by someone other than me.
How many time you got slapped in the face, when you ask every women to
marry at first encounter?
LOL!
>
>have you passed your arithmetic yet. or is it a myth as you have
>claimed?
A myth as you have claimed?
Please lah, write sensible English, not gibberish!
What good does it do to answer an under achiever like you, who does
not even know the difference between arithmetic and maths.
>
>stick to acch oohc and oh, monkey.
Dunno what you utter here, but I suggest you better cool down,
strayed chink!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tom
>
<snip>
> As you can see from the replies from the malays here, they said that
> the present situation (racist laws) is due to the fact that we did not
> object to it although I think he is an idiot in saying that. If you
> also care to read about the malaysiakini letters, those malays would
> also say that the non-malays don't complain much about that racist
> malay rights and we only care about the chinese culture and education.
> I think one of the reason is mainly due to the ISA shutting some of us
> up. The malays are really uncivilized and unreasonable people.
>
1. A waste of time because politics are not founded on truths or logic.
2. Futile, because a newsgroup is an ineffectual venue to influence or
change public opinions. The opposite happens - insults and puerile
squabbles.
> Did all your friends and relatives migrate to other countries?
Yes, a large number.
> What about those unfortunates who cannot afford a private university
> education even though his grades was better than those who could enter
> public university based on skin color ?
Worse injustices than that are been suffered by people all around the world.
If it is too hot, get out of the kitchen.
> Laws are made by man, and I do believe they are mutable if enough
> support comes from the citizens themselves.
Believe is one thing. Reality or pragmatism is another.
Tom
xman
logic.
>2. Futile, because a newsgroup is an ineffectual venue to influence or
>change public opinions. The opposite happens - insults and puerile
>squabbles.
Yes, you are partially right, politics are not founded on truths in
reality especially in malaysia.
More so, if they are uncivilized.
But then, looking at history, south africa has changed, the blacks in
america has a better position now
since martin luther king spoke out. Malaya would not have gotten
independence if the malays themselves didn't
speak out.
In fact, if you were to read the post by azura saying that the current
situation is caused by the non-malays themselves in not speaking out to
the relevant parties.... What is your opinion on this ?
Where else can injustices be heard then ? If not in the internet ?
Surely you know of that uncivilized
ISA which has imprisoned quite a lot of people ? If enough people know
about it, hopefully one day
they will begin to realize... An impossible dream ????
> Did all your friends and relatives migrate to other countries?
Yes, a large number.
> Good for you, but in the past, it is easier to migrate to the west,
it is not that easy nowadays.
> Even getting an american visa just to visit is extremely difficult
right now, i am sure you are aware of that.
> Moreover, there are a lot of non-malays who could not migrate or
non-malays who wished to migrate
> but stayed back due to their aging parents or sibling relationships.
just because a large number of your family migrated does not mean a
large number can migrate.
Go to dengkil and see for yourselfs the substantial number of poor
indians, they dont even have enough
money to feed themselves , let alone migrate. This is from my own
experience as I was frequently asked
for donations to these poor indians/chinese, they do show photos too.
I am show that is NOT the only place
where there are poor non-malays.
So we must always think of the situation of the less fortunate.
>Worse injustices than that are been suffered by people all around the
world.
>If it is too hot, get out of the kitchen.
True, worse injustice has been suffered. But not everybody can get out
of the kitchen.
Aren't you sort of imply that since the israelis face a lot of suicide
bombings, they should also
leave that country ? Isn't that what the suicide bombers want in the
first place?
> Laws are made by man, and I do believe they are mutable if enough
> support comes from the citizens themselves.
>Believe is one thing. Reality or pragmatism is another.
You are partially right here. But then who would have guessed that
south africa laws would be changed ?
That is why the malaysian passport now allows citizens to visit that
country...
We need support from people like you, TOM.
xman
>Did I say that a rich country means the people are intelligent ?
>No, but you may imply that given what you have written.
First of all, I did not initially raise the issue of country versus
people, it was another writer here.
I only believe in genetics playing a part.
Some idiot here argued that china was poor so does that mean the
chinese are stupid?
>You can read about the past world histories for why certain empires
>rise and fall, you will know the reasons then.
>Give me a hint for there are many reasons. Ar
You can search the internet for the rise and fall of roman empire, the
various chinese dynasties etc.
> No, but if use properly as a society is just might do it.
Like I said, somebody was attacking me based on poverty , richness
alone without considering other factors.
>Just ask the education ministry, which race performs the poorest in
>malaysia and singapore ?
>It is rather obvious, and as you claimed that race (I rather call it
>an ethnic group) is the Malay
>But I do counter your claim that it is due to genetic intelligence.
It may be obvious to you and me and to a lot of reasonable people in
malaysia and singapore
but apparently not to a few bigots here. Then I suggest we have a
country wide mensa test
to see the distribution to prove beyond any doubt.
Genetics do play a certain role. The size and quality of the brain is
different for each of the main races.
>Of course, you can argue that they are lazy (finally admitting) but
>just by testing their learning ability and response time, you will be
>able to gauge their IQ.
>Indians to my knowledge are quite intelligent people. I won't twist
>facts like some of the bigots here.
>So can be Malays.
Like what I said, if education statistics from indonesia, singapore,
malaysia won't convince you,
then hold a country wide mensa test or any other IQ test that you think
is not biased .
>I am not from india, so how do I know why that country is poor ?
>I suppose you read some literature about it, the Economist Fact Book
>or whatever.
I would prefer not to judge something just by reading one fact alone. I
would have to know its history in depth
and go into india to actually see how the people there live and work.
My judgement is based
on the indians that I have met in this country and western countries.
Basically, a country's success/failure is determined by unity,
corruption, intelligence, open/closeness of the society
(china was closed which was one of the reason for its poverty, but
after joining wto, look what is happening), cronyism,
etc etc.
But I am not talking about a country here, somebody hijaked the main
topic here.
>That is my guess to. How about saying the Malays are poor due to
>their way of living and culture and even religion, without associating
>it to intelligence inherited through genes?
Did I equate poverty to intelligence ? I never did, it was some asshole
who twisted my words
in the first place.
Intelligence is measured by among other things - ability to learn fast,
ability to learn complex things,
ability to response fast and good analytical skills. I find all these
lacking in the malays.
It has nothing to do with way of living , culture, religion etc.
An intelligent person can be lazy, that I agree. But unfortunately,
laziness is not the reason for their poor grades.
>And isnt india growing very fast right now ?
>Yes, it is indeed growing very fast. Wasn't Malaysia growing very fast
>since the 1980's?
What does that prove, that the malays are intelligent ? I am sure you
know
who is driving the economy here ? Malaysia rapid wealth gain was mainly
due to foreign investment
in the 90s.
>I repeat here. Intelligence is not proportionate to wealth, unlike
what
>certain bigots here say.
>Please do not call the name they use on you. It clouds you fair and
>honest opinion.
Certain people here call me all sorts of names without arguing
logically like you do.
Dont' I have the right to call them back ? My opinions have always been
fair and honest,
but then if someone shoot a bullet at me, I think I have the right to
shoot a bullet back.
I must apologize if it offends you, as that bigot is truly not meant
for you.
>And I did not back down from my earlier words unlike those what those
>assholes say.
>I have seen quite a lot of stupid people getting rich (especially in
>malaysia) due to cronyism, racism, corruption.
>In India that is exactly the case. Maybe the same about China.
Corruption and intelligence are not mutually exclusive. You can have
both existing at the same time.
In india and china, some people get rich through corruption, and some
not.
In malaysia, i have yet to see the malays get rich through
non-corruption and non-racism by the govt.
Do I need to elaborate on the various projects such as the horrendous
LRT, frequent corruption by the police and govt?
The horrible road planning around klang valley.
>Ok I mixed up success with the wealth of a nation. However, you do
>imply that intelligence has to do with race, by exerting that
>successfull filiponos are not pure filipinos but of mixed blood.
>This can be understood as if filipino's and malays (to some belonging
>to the same race) are just less intelligent!
>Is that what you claim?
If you study some history of the migration of people, the pure
filipinos and the malays are originally from
the same set of genes. Their languages belong to the malayo-polynesian
group.
Just as the indo-european group of people can be traced to a common
origin.
As much as the truth is painful to swallow, genetics do play a part.
No offense here, but look at most of the negros in america and their
education statistics.
In fact, humans are just a kind of animal who are more intelligent,
compare a human and a monkey.
A monkey has everything that a human has, except a less developed
brain.
Can you deny that the caucasians can reach bigger body size than the
east asians by bodybuilding ?
Does not gene play a part in it. If you understand anthropology, you
will know that
there are differences in skull and brain structure among others between
several races.
someone
>
> We need support from people like you, TOM.
>
>
after calling everyone "stupid", now he tries to rally support...
xman
Hello "intelligent",
I am sure that the british was the original inhabitants of america by
your logic and that the red indians are not.
Where were you when your teacher was teaching the history of malacca ?
Loitering in the shopping centre ? Who was the founder of malacca ?
Where was he from ? I am sure the australoids (orang asli) came much
earlier than 1400 and even before the sri vijaya empire set foot on the
peninsular.
xman
I didn't call everyone stupid, did I call tom stupid ? Definitely not.
Only stupid people like you who twist facts !
norazlan
Hello There
Sri Vijaya empire control Malay penusular since 7 th century and rule for
600 years.Malaka was a shifting of capital from Palembang.due to the
conquest Majapahit at Palembang.The shifting of capital is within the
political boundry........and within the Malay world You are giving the
stupid example of the British in America..they are immigrant form different
continent,diffrent skin colour and different world.The Orang Asli and
other small ethnic as your thought the original inhabitant are nomad people
,who have no have no country and no political power in the past.This small
etnic group streching from Indo China to the whole Malay Archepalago and i
tell you that we will REMAIN in CONTROL.
alex
xman wrote:
>
> But then, looking at history, south africa has changed, the blacks in
> america has a better position now
> since martin luther king spoke out. Malaya would not have gotten
> independence if the malays themselves didn't
> speak out.
>
Blood was shed in both South Africa and the America to realise their
'better position'. These people were oppressed. Are you feeling
oppressed? How many Chinese can you call upon to sacrifice what the
Blacks suffered to gain a 'better position'. What they have gained from
their sacrifice is more or less what we have now anyway, and we got it
without bloodshed. The very fact that you have no balls to post under
your true email address and fact that you fear the ISA shows just how
much you are willing to sacrifice....so don't even compare yourself to
the Blacks .... You have NO BALLS and you're retarded to boot.
> In fact, if you were to read the post by azura saying that the current
> situation is caused by the non-malays themselves in not speaking out to
> the relevant parties.... What is your opinion on this ?
That's a very astute observation by Azura. But speaking out in the
manner you have just done borders on stupidity. Not only do you
antagonise the Malays, you piss off everyone else too. Based on the
replies to your thread, how much support have you gathered? If you were
really sincere in trying to help the Chinese you could have tried to
think of a better way to gather support. You have failed miserably to
convince anyone.
>
> Where else can injustices be heard then ? If not in the internet ?
> Surely you know of that uncivilized
> ISA which has imprisoned quite a lot of people ? If enough people know
> about it, hopefully one day
> they will begin to realize... An impossible dream ????
>
Everyone knows about it man. Everyone realises it's not a perfect world
but are wise enough to be thankful for the peace and harmony that they
have. Only little boys like you who haven't ventured out to the real
world wants a perfect world....but don't have the balls to fight for it.
You might think you are a hero voicing out your grievances here on the
internet, under an anonymous handle, but if it comes to blood being shed
I think you'll be one of the first ones to flee. You don't even have the
balls to post under your real name and you want to talk about fighting
against injustice.
azura a.n.
> You're showing a lot about your lack of intelligence here. You just
> can't imagine any foreigner being able to speak Malay!
Not just that
Can't imagine a foreigner being smarter and know better and more about
someone else's motherland.
I stop downloading his posts while ago, he lost it after 3rd reply. From there
on he just start repeating himself and I could not watch him gating humiliated
by the forum intellectual elite. Said case.
you tho , have a nice day :)
regards
azura
mn
"azura a.n." <azuraan@streamyx> wrote in message
news:41c64882$1...@news.tm.net.my...
...
> on he just start repeating himself and I could not watch him gating
humiliated
> by the forum intellectual elite. Said case.
hehehe...are there really 'intellectuals' hanging around scm? :)
+++
xman
> You started this thread with a bunch of statements saying Malays are:
> blah blah blah.
>
> You didn't give any exceptions until somewhere along the line when
> everyone dropped in and called you an idiot...then you started
changing
> and saying minority and stuff....but that's not really important.
>
Don't twist my words to satisfy your big ego. When did I say
"100%" malays are stupid, lazy, uncivilized etc. I gave some example
of ahmad nor of DAP, some singaporeans malays are the exception to be
lazy and uncivilized, didn't I ? Or you purposely did not want to read
it?
So next time I put up an imprecise statement I must qualify with
97.536%
are blah..blah.. and do you need an exact figure ?
> Look...you've called every single person who replied to your post as
> stupid whether they are Malay, Chinese, or European or Indian. But
> everyone who replied to you thinks you are retarded and
> stupid....doesn't that tell you something? Wait, let me guess...you
are
> the kind of person who thinks that if everyone's against you, the
reason
> can't *possibly* be that you're a asshole. There's obviously a
> conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire net a favor
by
> exposing it.
>
Again, you twist my words, did I call tom and intruder stupid ?
And i guess according to your reasoning, if a lot of malaysian smokes,
then it is right ? IF china/india/us were to bomb some poor country, it
would be right too based on their sheer number of people who say YES ?
I must say you are stupid and a selfish one at that for giving some
childish arguments and twisting my words.
Just because YOU are doing well, does not mean that the injustices
should
prevail. Apparently, you have not been around to places where there are
poor chinese/indians. Even in modern KL, there are places that you can
go.
One of them is pekeliling flats, go and have a look at their flats.
Don;t they deserve a 7% discount?
Next time, if somebody approach you for donation, see whether they 100%
malays? Or maybe you have NEVER done any donation before if I use
hated words like you. I remember this story of gautama buddha who was
raised inside the palace walls, until one day he went outside the walls
to see all the sufferings.
someone
me that's the root of the grudge against you in here.
where is the exception for singaporeans or that ahmad nor of yours in that
sentence? i don't see any, so quit justifying that by some sheer magnitude
the peers have mistaken in deciphering its meaning.
while others have taken some of your points, i don't see you doing them a
favour of even reflecting on the merit of their arguments. so whose the big
ego here? you want to blame the malays too on that? are you enjoying the
attention you are getting here with the long thread?
i repeat what another have called you: BASTARD. and BIGOT too. plain and
simple. or do someone have to elaborate on those words?
go figure.
"xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103527491.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
xman
> First you have to be objective in arriving at the ranking of your
abilities.
> Secondly you are not native to the counry and your country of origin
is
> China where you may not even have had a chance to go to primary
school
> Thirdly yoiur community is rich with many leaders who should be
organising
> scholarships for such needy cases as yours.
> Fourth this same situation exists also in Singaproe where needy
children of
> more brains that you Chinese cannoit get into U and they do not have
the
> money to go to overseas U and hence have to be at the bottom of the
heap and
> they are native to the country not immigrants that you are.
Firstly, your english is terrible but is typical of most malays in
malaysia.
Secondly, you guys are not native to the country itself, the orang asli
are the true natives, so don't come and claim nativity here. All
citizens of CIVILIZED countries enjoy the same benefits regardless of
their ancestors' country of origin. Look at america, the ancestors of
citizens there all come from different parts of the world but do they
have different privileges? The chinese/indians born in malaysia are not
from china/india, put that in your thick skull.
Thirdly, I didn't say I am needy, right ? I am saying this for the
whole non-malays in general, something that is very alien to you. So
does that mean, I am chinese/indian mix ? This may sound very alien to
racist like you.
I am also sure that the income tax which goes to govt are only
contributed by the malays only ? That is why they go to ONLY help
stupid malays like you ?
Fourth, can't even word the grammar properly "needy children of more
brains ?". Do you know what is the definition of immigrants?, look into
the dictionary ? I am sure those born in indonesia but migrated to
malaysia recently are not called immigrants by your racist definition ?
someone
bang on the other malays in here?
look at your own thread and judge whether your english is so heavenly
perfect.
what you gave were questions, excuses, questions, excuses, and more
questions - not to mention the "shoulds" that you envisioned. oh goodie
goodie, you forgot about how we are going to get there. so where's the
perfect solution of yours for us to improve upon? and would all of us enjoy
the prosperity and good state we are living in now, should we go your way?
i'm not the bright guy in here. i'm only a malay. why don't you impress all
of us in here with some bright ideas instead of lame questions and excuses.
oh please, educate us, sir "hardworking, bright and civilized" xman.
--
"the pot is calling the kettle as black."
"xman" <xma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103600882....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
sabeng
sufficient to conclude that malays are lazy, stupid and uncivillized, I have
seen many chinese too with many uncivillized behaviours like eating frogs,
snakes,
rats, killing their own babies, child, shark loans, prirated VCD, gambling,
raping their maids, torturing their maids, ass lickers (esp to white people
and to higher ranking people including higher ranking malays), dirty and filthy
like
those penangite dumping their shits into the sea..
but I would never say they are stupid, lazy and uncivilized. as a malay citizen
we shouls respect each other culture and religion, we should also help each
other and do not take advantage of other people weaknesses...
lc...@excite.com
behaviour?
You are a racist troll yourself!
Tom
> >1. A waste of time because politics are not founded on truths or
> logic.
> >2. Futile, because a newsgroup is an ineffectual venue to influence or
> >change public opinions. The opposite happens - insults and puerile
> >squabbles.
>
> Yes, you are partially right, politics are not founded on truths in
> reality especially in malaysia.
> More so, if they are uncivilized.
> But then, looking at history, south africa has changed, the blacks in
> america has a better position now
> since martin luther king spoke out. Malaya would not have gotten
> independence if the malays themselves didn't
> speak out.
Have you got the same vision, commitment and intellect as well as the
support of millions of people behind you, including a political system that
tolerates and champions democracy?
> In fact, if you were to read the post by azura saying that the current
> situation is caused by the non-malays themselves in not speaking out to
> the relevant parties.... What is your opinion on this ?
In the first place I have no inclination to read 99.9% of the posts here.
Except for Chin Peng and his crowd, the Chinese, Malays and Indians were
just babes in the political woods. Independence was thrust upon them without
their asking. They were given away like hot cakes by the colonial powers
after the War.
> Where else can injustices be heard then ? If not in the internet ?
I'm not against it but be cognizant of what one can achieve here.
> Surely you know of that uncivilized
> ISA which has imprisoned quite a lot of people ? If enough people
> know about it, hopefully one day they will begin to realize... An
> impossible dream ????
So, bring your supporters and let your voice be heard at one of the ASEAN
Conferences but just be careful to choose the right host.
> > Did all your friends and relatives migrate to other countries?
>
>
> Yes, a large number.
>
> > Good for you, but in the past, it is easier to migrate to the west,
> it is not that easy nowadays.
Just the opposite. Visit these countries and see for yourself.
> > Even getting an american visa just to visit is extremely difficult
> right now, i am sure you are aware of that.
It's because it was a loophole for "visitors" to sneak into the country.
Visits and migration fall under different categories. America and other
countries do have yearly quotas for the intake of foreign migrants but you
must have something worthwhile to contribute. Email me privately and let me
know what skills and qualifications you possess.
> > Moreover, there are a lot of non-malays who could not migrate or
> non-malays who wished to migrate
> > but stayed back due to their aging parents or sibling relationships.
>
> just because a large number of your family migrated does not mean a
> large number can migrate.
Just like your forefather did, his descendants have to judge for themselves
whether the kitchen is too hot and make their own decisions accordingly. Had
your forefather been able to foresee the situation, he might have gone
somewhere else.
> Go to dengkil and see for yourselfs the substantial number of poor
> indians, they dont even have enough
> money to feed themselves , let alone migrate. This is from my own
> experience as I was frequently asked
> for donations to these poor indians/chinese, they do show photos too.
> I am show that is NOT the only place
> where there are poor non-malays.
> So we must always think of the situation of the less fortunate.
No country with a sense of sanity will ever attempt to solve world poverty
by opening its doors.
> >Worse injustices than that are been suffered by people all around the
> world.
> >If it is too hot, get out of the kitchen.
>
> True, worse injustice has been suffered. But not everybody can get out
> of the kitchen.
Does it mean that no one therefore should try?
> Aren't you sort of imply that since the israelis face a lot of suicide
> bombings, they should also
> leave that country ? Isn't that what the suicide bombers want in the
> first place?
I'm not, nor do I wish to comment on the two vastly different situations or
equate the plight of the non-Blumis in Malaysia with that of the
Palestinians.
> > Laws are made by man, and I do believe they are mutable if enough
> > support comes from the citizens themselves.
>
>
> >Believe is one thing. Reality or pragmatism is another.
>
> You are partially right here. But then who would have guessed that
> south africa laws would be changed ?
Malaysia and South Africa are vastly two different kettle of fish.
> We need support from people like you, TOM.
You are getting our support. Imagine what will happen to the economy if all
the discriminated professionals leave the country. It may sway the
government to change its mindset.
Tom