Malagasy and Austronesian languages
Dominique Dumont
Hello everybody,
I would like to start a kind of "dictionnary" of the similarities
between the malagasy language (the language spoken in Madagascar) and
the other languages of the Austronesian family, such as Indonesian
(bahasa indonesia), Malay, Javanese, Sunda, Tagalog, Maanjan (from
Borneo-Kalimantan), Bugi (from Celebes-Sulawesi), etc. etc.
This is absolutely not a new subject, the relationship between Malagasy
and Malay was already mentionned since 16th century by travellers.
But I noticed that, surprisingly, very few people in the concerned
countries actually know what it is about. The malagasy people, for
example, know almost nothing on the other Austronesian languages, and
conversely.
I am French, I personally know Malagasy a little, and Indonesian a very
little... and I am not an expert, but I hope the people active on these
four newsgroups will help me in making improvements in this small
dictionnary.
My sources on the subject are Malzac (a French missionary), Dama Ntsoha
(a Malagasy linguist), O. Dahl (a Norvegian linguist who first noticed
in 1951 a strong similarity between Malagasy and Maanjan), and Adelaar
(University of Melbourne).
I shall use the following conventions : the first word is written
between "" and is given in official Malagasy, with the convention that
the sound "u" is written "u" (and not "o" as it should be in
Madagascar), the words following it are Malagasy dialects.
Then I put a bar / and I continue with similar austronesian words, with
eventually bahasa indonesia written between "" or/and variants
following.
At the end, I put the translation in english, so everybody should be
convinced that the word has approximately the same meaning in the
different languages.
Examples :
"rua" / "dua", rua (two)
"telu" / telu (Jawa) (three)
"efatra" / "empat" (four)
"dimy", limy / "lima" (five)
"fitu" / pitu (Jawa) (seven)
"valu" / wolu (Jawa) (eight)
"fulu" / "puluh" (ten)
"arivu" / "seribu", ribuh (thousand)
"vatu", batu / "batu", watu (stone)
"lava" / dawa (long)
"ranu" / ranu (water)
"uluna", ulu / ulum (person)
"lalana" / "jalan", dalan (street, way)
"lanitra", langitse / "langit" (sky)
"zanaka", anaka / "anak" (child)
"sulu" / sulih (Jawa), sulu (Sulawesi) (substitute)
"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
"vady", valy / vali (Sulawesi) (husband, wife)
"vuvuka" / "buruk", bubuk (dust)
As you can see :
- I do not include unnecessary words, such as
"tiga", "tujuh", "delapan" (too far, in my opinion, from telu, fitu,
valu). I am looking only for words close to the Malagasy.
- For the same reason, I do not include similarities between
austronesian languages in case when Malagasy is not concerned.
- I should write "roa", "telo", etc. in Malagasy, but in fact these
words are pronounced "rua", "telu" in Madagascar... and for the present
use I prefer this convention which seems more natural here.
The list should be quite long, at least 300 words, maybe even more than
500 words. Unless somebody helps me, I could feel tired after writing
and posting the first 100 examples...
I shall post more soon. Thank you for your attention.
So, please correct, complete, make proposals, give informations on local
variants if you some that you would like to see here.
Sincerely yours
Dominique Dumont
Bastos
>Hello everybody,
>
>I would like to start a kind of "dictionnary" of the similarities
>between the malagasy language (the language spoken in Madagascar) and
>the other languages of the Austronesian family, such as Indonesian
>(bahasa indonesia), Malay, Javanese, Sunda, Tagalog, Maanjan (from
>Borneo-Kalimantan), Bugi (from Celebes-Sulawesi), etc. etc.
>
>Examples :
>
I'm no expert but here goes my!
>"rua" / "dua", rua (two)
duha - cebuano , dalawa - tagalog
>"telu" / telu (Jawa) (three)
tulo - cebuano . tatlo - tagalog
>"efatra" / "empat" (four)
upat - cebuano, apat - tagalog
>"dimy", limy / "lima" (five)
lima - cebuano, tagalog
>"fitu" / pitu (Jawa) (seven)
pito - cebuano, tagalog
>"valu" / wolu (Jawa) (eight)
walo - cebuano, tagalog
>"fulu" / "puluh" (ten)
napulo - cebuano, sampu - tagalog
>"arivu" / "seribu", ribuh (thousand)
libo - visayan, tagalog
>"vatu", batu / "batu", watu (stone)
bato - visayan, tagalog
>"lava" / dawa (long)
haba (length), ma-haba (long) - tagalog
>"ranu" / ranu (water)
tubig - cebuano, tagalog
>"uluna", ulu / ulum (person)
tao (human, person), ulo (head)
>"lalana" / "jalan", dalan (street, way)
dalan - cebuano, da-an - tagalog
>"lanitra", langitse / "langit" (sky)
langit - cebuano, taglog
>"zanaka", anaka / "anak" (child)
anak - c, t
>"sulu" / sulih (Jawa), sulu (Sulawesi) (substitute)
>"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
buhok
>"vady", valy / vali (Sulawesi) (husband, wife)
asawa
>"vuvuka" / "buruk", bubuk (dust)
alikabok - tagalog
>
Dominique Dumont
Bastos wrote:
>
> I'm no expert but here goes my!
>
> >"rua" / "dua", rua (two)
> duha - cebuano , dalawa - tagalog
> >"telu" / telu (Jawa) (three)
> tulo - cebuano . tatlo - tagalog
> >"efatra" / "empat" (four)
> upat - cebuano, apat - tagalog
> >"dimy", limy / "lima" (five)
> lima - cebuano, tagalog
> >"fitu" / pitu (Jawa) (seven)
> pito - cebuano, tagalog
> >"valu" / wolu (Jawa) (eight)
> walo - cebuano, tagalog
> >"fulu" / "puluh" (ten)
> napulo - cebuano, sampu - tagalog
> >"arivu" / "seribu", ribuh (thousand)
> libo - visayan, tagalog
Thank you very much ! These languages are all from Philippines ?
Give us some details : classification, location, number of speakers,
status (frequently written or not, teaching languages or not, etc.)
> >"vatu", batu / "batu", watu (stone)
> bato - visayan, tagalog
> >"lava" / dawa (long)
> haba (length), ma-haba (long) - tagalog
> >"ranu" / ranu (water)
> tubig - cebuano, tagalog
> >"uluna", ulu / ulum (person)
> tao (human, person), ulo (head)
About the Malagasy prefix "ta-" (which means : "person coming from", in
words such as "tanusy" - from the island - "tanala" - from the forest -
"talautra" - from the sea - , "tatsimu" etc. etc.) :
Adelaar says that this prefix "ta-" comes from the old austronesian
"taw", person, and that in Southern Sulawesi (Bugi, Mandar, Toraja) it
has become "to", and "tu" in other languages (Macassar).
So your "tao" is the pure old word ! It is Tagalog ?
About "ulo" : "luha" (written "loha") is the Malagasy word for "head".
So I suppose it is an austronesian word.
Your "ulo" is in which language ?
"aluha" (written "aloha" in Malagasy) means : "ahead", or "go ahead".
I know that "aloha" exists in Hawaian, but with another meaning.
> >"lalana" / "jalan", dalan (street, way)
> dalan - cebuano, da-an - tagalog
> >"lanitra", langitse / "langit" (sky)
> langit - cebuano, taglog
> >"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
> buhok
Thanks a lot for these complements.
> >"vady", valy / vali (Sulawesi) (husband, wife)
> asawa
> >"vuvuka" / "buruk", bubuk (dust)
> alikabok - tagalog
You mean : "vady" and "vuvuka" have no equivalent in your country.
OK, so far I understand the experts, "vady" is not very common in the
autronesian languages, other words are used for "husband" and "wife".
Once more thank you. I give here a few more examples :
"ala" / alas (Jawa) (forest)
"maty" / "mati" (dead)
"masu" / "mata" (eye)
"masuandru" / "mata hari" (sun)
"nusy" / "nusa" (island)
"tànana", tangana / "tangan" (hand, arm)
"vua" / "buah" (fruit)
"vuha" / "buka" (open)
"vuruna" / "burung" (bird)
This is to be continued, of course.
Best regards.
Dominique Dumont
bastos
>
>Thank you very much ! These languages are all from Philippines ?
>Give us some details : classification, location, number of speakers,
>status (frequently written or not, teaching languages or not, etc.)
>
Pilipino, national language of the Philippines, is based upon
Tagalog, the native language spoken in the provinces surrounding
Manila and understood by about 80% of Filipinos. Again, I would like
to stress I am not a linguistics expert nor even a Tagalog expert.
Cebuano (the native tongue of my parents) is the native language
spoken in Central Philippines (i.e. Cebu island and surrounding
islands including Northern Mindanao (Southern Philippine island).
These two languages have the greatest number of speakers, although
Ilocano (northern Luzon) is also among them.
>
>About the Malagasy prefix "ta-" (which means : "person coming from", in
>words such as "tanusy" - from the island - "tanala" - from the forest -
>"talautra" - from the sea - , "tatsimu" etc. etc.) :
Taga (tagalog) - as in taga-ilog - person coming from the
river (a probable origin of word Tagalog). If this is prefixed to a
verb then it becomes "person who does" as in taga-sagot - Person who
answers.
>Adelaar says that this prefix "ta-" comes from the old austronesian
>"taw", person, and that in Southern Sulawesi (Bugi, Mandar, Toraja) it
>has become "to", and "tu" in other languages (Macassar).
>So your "tao" is the pure old word ! It is Tagalog ?
>
Tao is tagalog and cebuano.
>
>"ala" / alas (Jawa) (forest)
gubat - tagalog
>"maty" / "mati" (dead)
patay - dead, ma-matay - to die.
>"masu" / "mata" (eye)
mata - cebuano, tagalog
>"masuandru" / "mata hari" (sun)
araw - "sun" or "day" in tagalog
adlaw - "sun" in cebuano
hari - "king" - tagalog
bahag - "loin cloth" - tagalog
bahag-hari - "rainbow" - tagalog
>"nusy" / "nusa" (island)
pulo - tagalog
>"tànana", tangana / "tangan" (hand, arm)
kamot (cebuano), kamay (tagalog) - hand
>"vua" / "buah" (fruit)
>"vuha" / "buka" (open)
buka, bukas - open in tagalog.
>"vuruna" / "burung" (bird)
ibon - tagalog
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> I would like to start a kind of "dictionnary" of the similarities
> between the malagasy language (the language spoken in Madagascar) and
> the other languages of the Austronesian family, such as Indonesian
> (bahasa indonesia), Malay, Javanese, Sunda, Tagalog, Maanjan (from
> Borneo-Kalimantan), Bugi (from Celebes-Sulawesi), etc. etc.
>
> and Malay was already mentionned since 16th century by travellers.
> But I noticed that, surprisingly, very few people in the concerned
> countries actually know what it is about. The malagasy people, for
> example, know almost nothing on the other Austronesian languages, and
> conversely.
>
in Southeast Asia. Austronesian is the Latin name given by linguists
and it means "southern islands". The Austronesian language family is
also referred to as Malayo-Polynesian. There are two major subgroups
within the Austronesian language family: Formosan (the languages
spoken by the "aborigenes" of Taiwan), and Malay-Polynesian (the
languages spoken in the Malay archipelago, Madagascar, and the Pacific
islands, like Hawaii and Tahiti).
The Philippines have approximately 70 separate Austronesian
languages/dialects. The words for numbers are basically the same with
minor variations in spelling and pronounciation. Even the Hawaiian
words for numbers are very similar. The Austronesian languages in the
Philippines have incorporated a lot of foreign words from Indian,
Chinese, Arab, and Spanish. So, one has to be careful in
distinguishing the original Austronesian words.
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
> About the Malagasy prefix "ta-" (which means : "person coming from", in
> words such as "tanusy" - from the island - "tanala" - from the forest -
> "talautra" - from the sea - , "tatsimu" etc. etc.) :
> Adelaar says that this prefix "ta-" comes from the old austronesian
> "taw", person, and that in Southern Sulawesi (Bugi, Mandar, Toraja) it
> has become "to", and "tu" in other languages (Macassar).
> So your "tao" is the pure old word ! It is Tagalog ?
--------
The Malagasy prefix "ta" is probably similar to the Tagalog prefix
"taga" which signifies one's origin. Actually, the origin of the word
"tagalog" is "taga", which means "from", and "ilog" which means
"river".
Or, probably the "ta" is the same as the Tagalog "tao" or "too"
(another Phil. dialect), which mean person or people.
>
> About "ulo" : "luha" (written "loha") is the Malagasy word for "head".
> So I suppose it is an austronesian word.
> Your "ulo" is in which language ?
The Tagalog word for "head" is also "ulo". Other Philippine dialects
like Ilocano and Pangasinan have the same word.
> "aluha" (written "aloha" in Malagasy) means : "ahead", or "go ahead".
> I know that "aloha" exists in Hawaian, but with another meaning.
------
The Tagalog word for "ahead" is "una" which means "first". The
Tagalog word for leader (or president) is "pang-ulo" which retains the
root word "ulo". The closest Tagalog word that I can think of that
sounds like "aluha" or "aloha" is "luha" which means "tears". The
Tagalog word "ulunan" means "head of, top, or front of".
>
> > >"lalana" / "jalan", dalan (street, way)
> > dalan - cebuano, da-an - tagalog
"dalan" - Pangasinan (a Phil. dialect)
> > >"lanitra", langitse / "langit" (sky)
> > langit - cebuano, taglog
> > >"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
> > buhok
"buek" - Pangasinan
> Thanks a lot for these complements.
>
> > >"vady", valy / vali (Sulawesi) (husband, wife)
> > asawa
-------
"asawa" is not really an original Tagalog or Austronesian word. It is
borrowed from Indian Sanskrit.
> > >"vuvuka" / "buruk", bubuk (dust)
> > alikabok - tagalog
--------
"dabok" - Pangasinan
>
> You mean : "vady" and "vuvuka" have no equivalent in your country.
> OK, so far I understand the experts, "vady" is not very common in the
> autronesian languages, other words are used for "husband" and "wife".
>
> Once more thank you. I give here a few more examples :
>
> "ala" / alas (Jawa) (forest)
"gubat" - Tagalog
> "maty" / "mati" (dead)
"mati" - Ilocano (a Phil. dialect)
> "masu" / "mata" (eye)
"mata" - Tagalog and other Phil. dialects.
> "masuandru" / "mata hari" (sun)
"araw" or "arao" - Tagalog, "adlao" or "agew" - other Phil. dialects.
(I believe the Malagasy and Indonesian words you have for "sun" are
borrowed from Indian Sanskrit or Tamil). "mata" is the Tagalog word
for "eye". The Tagalog word for "king" is "hari" or "ari", which
probably originated from Indian Sanskrit.
> "nusy" / "nusa" (island)
"pulo" - Tagalog
> "tànana", tangana / "tangan" (hand, arm)
"tangan" - Pangasinan for "thumb"
The word for hand in Tagalog and other Phil. dialects is "lima"
> "vua" / "buah" (fruit)
"bunga" - Tagalog and other Phil. dialects
> "vuha" / "buka" (open)
"bukas" - Tagalog
> "vuruna" / "burung" (bird)
"ibon" - Tagalog, "manok" - other Phil. dialects.
John J. Cristobal
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, lahi wrote:
> Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> The Tagalog word for "ahead" is "una" which means "first". The
> Tagalog word for leader (or president) is "pang-ulo" which retains the
> root word "ulo". The closest Tagalog word that I can think of that
> sounds like "aluha" or "aloha" is "luha" which means "tears". The
> Tagalog word "ulunan" means "head of, top, or front of".
>
definitely Tagalog.
> "tangan" - Pangasinan for "thumb"
> The word for hand in Tagalog and other Phil. dialects is "lima"
"kamay" denotes 'hand.' "lima" is for 'five.'
"tangan" means 'held in hand.' (All in Tagalog.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John J. Cristobal e-mail: cris...@sundance.sjsu.edu
www.mathcs.sjsu.edu/student/cris1154 udu0...@email.sjsu.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clovis
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> Examples :
Kapangpangan
> "rua" / "dua", rua (two) adua
> "telu" / telu (Jawa) (three) atlu
> "efatra" / "empat" (four) apat
> "dimy", limy / "lima" (five) lima
> "fitu" / pitu (Jawa) (seven) pitu
> "valu" / wolu (Jawa) (eight) walu
> "fulu" / "puluh" (ten) apulu
> "arivu" / "seribu", ribuh (thousand) libu
> "vatu", batu / "batu", watu (stone) batu
> "lava" / dawa (long) makaba
> "ranu" / ranu (water) danum
> "uluna", ulu / ulum (person) tau
> "lalana" / "jalan", dalan (street, way) dalan
> "lanitra", langitse / "langit" (sky) banua
> "zanaka", anaka / "anak" (child) anak
> "sulu" / sulih (Jawa), sulu (Sulawesi) (substitute) kalibe
> "vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair) buak
> "vady", valy / vali (Sulawesi) (husband, wife) asawa
Clovis
Dominique Dumont
Thank you for your contributions, Lahi !
In Malagasy, your name, "lahi", written "lahy", means "man" or "male".
I think the Malay equivalent is "laki-laki".
Example :
Malagasy : "zanaku-lahy" / Malay : "anakku laki-laki" (my son)
(of course, the suffix "-ku" means hear "my" in both languages)
lahi wrote:
>
> > "maty" / "mati" (dead)
> "mati" - Ilocano (a Phil. dialect)
I have been told that "mati" is very frequent in Austronesian languages
and throughout the Pacific, for example in Vanuatu.
> > "masu" / "mata" (eye)
> "mata" - Tagalog and other Phil. dialects.
>
> > "masuandru" / "mata hari" (sun)
> "araw" or "arao" - Tagalog, "adlao" or "agew" - other Phil. dialects.
> (I believe the Malagasy and Indonesian words you have for "sun" are
> borrowed from Indian Sanskrit or Tamil).
> The Tagalog word for "king" is "hari" or "ari", which
> probably originated from Indian Sanskrit.
Sure ! In modern Malagasy, "hary" means "creature".
According to most experts (and, among them, Dama-Ntsoha),
the words "Yan" and "Hari" mean respectively "God" and "Sun" in
Sanskrit, "Hari" is a name for the God Vishnu.
In Malagasy, "Yan-Hari" has led to
"Zanahary", or "Nanahary", or "Andriananahary", which means
"God the Creator".
In old Malagasy, the sentence :
"Zanahary nahary tongotra (tungutra) aman-tànana" means
"God the Creator, who created feet and hands".
According to Dama-Ntsoha, "Zanahary" refers to the God-Sun, to Vishnu,
no the christian God, and it is not surprising that this word has been
forsaken, whereas the word commonly used by Christians for God is now
"Andriamanitra" (the perfumed Lord).
Dominique Dumont
lahi
John J. Cristobal wrote:
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, lahi wrote:
> > Dominique Dumont wrote:
> >
> > The Tagalog word for "ahead" is "una" which means "first". The
> Actually, "una" is from the Spanish "una" or "uno".
----
Yes, my mistake. As I wrote earlier, we should be careful that we
don't mistake words borrowed from other languages for Austronesian.
> > "tangan" - Pangasinan for "thumb"
> > The word for hand in Tagalog and other Phil. dialects is "lima"
> "kamay" denotes 'hand.' "lima" is for 'five.'
> "tangan" means 'held in hand.' (All in Tagalog.)
----------
The word "lima" means the number five or the hand, which makes sense
because the hand has five fingers. Tagalog has another word "kamay"
for hand, but many other Philippine dialects use "lima" to mean the
number five or the hand. In Pangasinan, "tangan" means "thumb". The
word "tanga" means "dumb".
John J. Cristobal
On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dominique Dumont wrote:
> In Malagasy, your name, "lahi", written "lahy", means "man" or "male".
> I think the Malay equivalent is "laki-laki".
> Example :
> Malagasy : "zanaku-lahy" / Malay : "anakku laki-laki" (my son)
> (of course, the suffix "-ku" means hear "my" in both languages)
"my" or "mine," and "anak" implies "child." To connect the modifier
with the word modified one would use "na" or "-ng." Hence:
"anak kong lalaki" (Tagalog)
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John J. Cristobal cris...@sundance.sjsu.edu
www.mathcs.sjsu.edu/student/cris1154 udu0...@email.sjsu.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
lahi
> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dominique Dumont wrote:
> > In Malagasy,
Is the name "Malagasy" the same as the Tagalog word "malakas"? The
word "malakas" means "strong/powerful" or literally, "with
strength/power". The root word is "lakas", which means strenth or
power.
How many Austronesian/Malay languages or dialects are in Madagascar?
Dominique Dumont
lahi wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dominique Dumont wrote:
> > > In Malagasy,
> ================
>
> Is the name "Malagasy" the same as the Tagalog word "malakas"? The
> word "malakas" means "strong/powerful" or literally, "with
> strength/power". The root word is "lakas", which means strenth or
> power.
I do not know the origin of the word "Malagasy" (maybe the experts
know). Just a few remarks :
- there exists a shorter version, which is a little familiar, sometimes
pejorative : "gasy". Examples :
"Ny teny gasy" = "the Malagasy language"
"Vita gasy" = "made in Madagascar"
"Gasy ambuny" = "the upper class" (among Malagasy)
"Gasy petaka", ili "Gasy petaka uruna" = "truly gasy" (with a "flat
nose") ("uruna"= udan, hujan etc. in austronesian)
"Ady gasy" = "Malagasy fight, or resource"
("ady"="adu", bahasa indonesia)
"Futuan-gasy" = "Malagasy time" (flexible, approximate)
- there is an old translation of the word "Malagasy", which is "madekas"
(in French, written "madécasse", in German, "madegassisch", still in use
in this language).
- the root which means approximately "power" is "zaka" (maybe related to
"lakas" ?), or "tanjaka" (energy), "manjaka" (to reign).
Example : "mpanjaka lahy" = king = "raja laki-laki" in Malay (according
to Malzac)
> How many Austronesian/Malay languages or dialects are in Madagascar?
There is only one language, divided in many dialects or local variants,
but all the Malagasy understand each other, so one can say there is in
fact only one Malagasy language.
Sometimes the local variants are more closely related to the other
Austronesian than the official language, as you can see with the
following examples :
five = "dimy" (official) = "limy" (sakalave dialect)
sky = "lanitra" (official) = "langitse" (betsileo or tandroy dialects).
The Malagasy language is Austronesian in its structure, but :
- it is not especially "Malay", it is more strongly related to other
Austronesian languages from Kalimantan, Sulawesi, etc. According to Otto
Dahl (1051), the origin would be "Maanjan" (South Kalimantan). This is
still a field of research to discover the influences on the Malagasy
language coming from the other languages, and this is related to the
historical problem of the migrations ;
- in the Malagasy vocabulary there are also many words from other
origins, bantu, arabic, european... The words from Austronesian origin
are not more than 60 % or 70 % of the whole.
Dominique Dumont
Dominique Dumont
Clovis wrote:
>
> Kapampangan
Thanks. Where is Kapampangan spoken ?
> > "masu" / "mata" (eye)
> mata
> > "masuandru" / "mata hari" (sun)
> aldo
According to Dama Ntsoha, there are melanesian influences in Malagasy,
he gives examples from the 'Mota' language (where is it spoken, I don't
know).
Malagasy "matury" / Mota "matur" / Austronesian "tidur" (to sleep)
Malagasy "masu" / Mota "masu" / Austronesian "masa" (eye)
Malagasy "maraina" / Mota "maran" (morning)
Example : Mota "masu-maran" = Morning star.
Dama Ntsoha also says that the prefix "Ra-" for the names is of
Melanesian origin :
"Ralahy", "Rasoa" (Rasua) etc.
Malagasy "matua" / Austronesian "matua" (elder, senior)
Malagasy "Ramatua" = Madam
Dominique Dumont
Iskandar
This is what God gave us the Internet for!
A beautiful thread, but alas the beginning has already scrolled off.
Last July I got excited over the idea of a coputerized multilingual
dictionary covering Rumpun Melayu, including Inedonesia, Malaysian,
Sunda, Jawa, Batak and Tagalog for starters. I was not at the time
aware of the links to Malagasy.
Spoken Malagasy certainly does not sound like spoken Melayu! But the
individual words do.
Pada waktu itu, beberapa dosen dari UNPAS, UNPAD dan UI pingin ikut,
tetapi karena suatu kejadian saya tidak meneruskannya.
However, I am worked up again.
Will the originator of the thread please post or email a message. I
would like to catch up from the beginning.
Are you bulding a database? Would you like some help?
Selamat bekerja.
Izzy
Tom Lawson
Now the entire thread has scrolled off in Soc.Culture.Indonesia.
Could you be running a bit too tight?
Izzy
Alexander B. Ilagan
Hello Mr Dominique Dumont,
I have known before that Tagalog is an Autronesian or
Malayo-Polynesian language, but I have never known that this family group
extended all the way to Madagascar! Glancing at your tentative number
lists I've observed that there is a great similarity between your
malagasy words and central/south Philippines dialects. You are of course
familiar with the fact that there are a lot of Philippine dialects that
are in fact entirely different languages by themselves. I only speak
Tagalog, which is a pity but I've heard the words spoken every now and then.
Tagalog is perhaps one of the most hispanized of the Philippine dialects
so I suspect you get more concordance as you go more southerly, kindly
contact persons who can speak the other dialects (cebuano, waray, ilongo).
Also much as I would like to respond to your survey the arrangement of
your medium is very cumbersome. Please try arranging the words in a much
more easily understood/linear fashion. If I can be of assistance I can
be reached at st4...@srv.cc.hit-u.ac.jp (alex ilagan).
Good luck in your research.
Alexander B. Ilagan
I'd like to participate in the discussions on the malagasy and
austronesian languages but the format is very topsy-turvy. Please
archive it or transcribe it in a comprehensible manner. Specifically
I cannot tell tell which was the original post and which is the response
(ie which is malagasy and which is the tagalog response/word)
-kindly alex ilagan
lahi
Alexander B. Ilagan wrote:
...I have known before that Tagalog is an Autronesian or
> Malayo-Polynesian language, but I have never known that this family group extended all the way to Madagascar! ...
---------------------
By the 15th century, Austronesian speakers certainly extended from as
far west as Madagascar and as far east as Easter Island. It was the
most widespread language family at the time. There's some
speculations that the Austronesian speaking peoples even reached
Africa and the Americas by that time. There are tribes in Mexico and
the Amazon who share identical cultures, like weaving patterns and use
of blowguns, to Austronesian/Malay tribes in Borneo. According to the
legends of the Malays who settled Madagascar, they initially landed in
a land north of Madagascar, perhaps the region that is now Kenya and
Somalia, but they fled the area after encountering some plague, which
is believed to be malaria.
Clovis
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> Thanks. Where is Kapampangan spoken ?
>
Kapampangan (Pampango in English) is spoken in the provinces of
Pampanga, Tarlac and some parts of Bataan, the Philippines, north of
Manila.
"pampang" means the banks of a river, lake, or sea.
"balen" means town, hence, "kabalen" means townmate
"mekeni" means come here
"abe" means companion, hence, "abayan mu ku" means accompany me
"mekeni abe" means come here my friend or compatriot and in slang
terms, this what we call a Kapampangan to bond, it is also
our favorite expression.
Visit http://www.balen.net
Follow the thread for Austronesian languages and you will get more
translations.
> Malagasy "matury" / Mota "matur" / Austronesian "tidur" (to sleep)
Kapampangan: matudtud
> Malagasy "maraina" / Mota "maran" (morning)
Kapampangan: abak
> Malagasy "matua" / Austronesian "matua" (elder, senior)
Kapampangan: matua
Regards,
Clovis
Dominique Dumont
Clovis wrote:
> Kapampangan (Pampango in English) is spoken in the provinces of
> Pampanga, Tarlac and some parts of Bataan, the Philippines, north of
> Manila.
> "abe" means companion,
In Malagasy "aby" is employed in a similar way, it means "all of you
(companions)".
Example :
"Akury aby !" is a salutation (betsileo dialect) : "How (are) you all !"
I think "aby" corresponds to the official Malagasy "avy", with several
meanings : "coming", "to come from", is its most frequent meaning.
Malagasy "Avia !" = "Come !"
> hence, "abayan mu ku" means accompany me
> "mekeni abe" means come here my friend or compatriot and in slang
> terms, this what we call a Kapampangan to bond, it is also
> our favorite expression.
>
> Visit http://www.balen.net
Malagasy "ahu" / Austronesian "aku" (I, me)
the prefix "-ku" is identical in many languages (including Malagasy) and
means "to me", "my".
Your "mu ku" seems to correspond to the Malagasy "amiku" (with me).
Dominique Dumont
Dominique Dumont
Alexander B. Ilagan wrote:
>
> I'd like to participate in the discussions on the malagasy and
> austronesian languages but the format is very topsy-turvy.
Excuse me, I try to do my best. Help me to improve the format.
> Please
> archive it or transcribe it in a comprehensible manner. Specifically
> I cannot tell tell which was the original post and which is the response
> (ie which is malagasy and which is the tagalog response/word)
>
> -kindly alex ilagan
The original post was mailed on December 2Oth and can be found on either
<soc.culture.malagasy> or <soc.culture.filipino>.
My purpose is to compare the Malagasy language with the mainstream of
the Austronesian family.
There are very few linguists in the world who have some knowledge on
this topic. I think this is a pity, when in fact millions of people
could be interested in knowing what they have in common with their
remote cousins.
In fact, the comparison is not so easy if we restrict ourselves to the
official languages, such as official Malagasy, bahasa Indonesia, Malay
and Tagalog. It is probably more interesting to take also in
consideration the Malagasy dialects and a selection of the many
languages from Indonesia or Philippines.
So let me recall my conventions, on two examples :
"dimy", limy / "lima" (five)
"enina" / "enam", enem, unum (six)
"dimy" and "enina" are official Malagasy, whereas limy is sakalave
dialect from Madagascar.
After the bar / I give a few Austronesian cognates : official indonesian
is between "", the other are variants from various languages.
I am thankful to everybody who has helped me in contributing.
This is just a start. We will try to do it in a comprehensible manner
for everybody.
Best regards,
Dominique Dumont
PS. Concerning myself :
I am French, a man (not a Miss or a Ms.), I have lived in Madagascar for
five years and there I studied Indonesian for a few weeks.
Dominique Dumont
Iskandar wrote:
>
> This is what God gave us the Internet for!
>
> A beautiful thread, but alas the beginning has already scrolled off.
Thank you for your complimentss, we are doing our best...
The thread beginned with a first message by myself on December 20th, and
a first answer by Bastos. The whole thread can still be found on
<soc.culture.malagasy> and <soc.culture.filipino>.
It seems that most of the participants originate from the Philippines,
but I guess you are from Indonesian origin, as it seems to me that you
use official "bahasa indonesia" in your message.
> Last July I got excited over the idea of a coputerized multilingual
> dictionary covering Rumpun Melayu, including Inedonesia, Malaysian,
> Sunda, Jawa, Batak and Tagalog for starters. I was not at the time
> aware of the links to Malagasy.
I am not surprised. The languages you are speaking of are in constant
contacts to one another. But Madagascar is an island pretty far from
South-Eastern Asia, and the contacts are loose (or "lost").
> Spoken Malagasy certainly does not sound like spoken Melayu! But the
> individual words do.
You would not understand spoken Malagasy (and reciprocally), except a
few words.
>
> Pada waktu itu, beberapa dosen dari UNPAS, UNPAD dan UI pingin ikut,
> tetapi karena suatu kejadian saya tidak meneruskannya.
In this sentence, "itu" corresponds to the Malagasy "ity" (this),
"karena" looks like Malagasy "harena" (but they don't have the same
meaning), that's all, excuse me if the sentence is not understood
(neither by me, nor by most of the Malagasy following this thread).
> Are you building a database? Would you like some help?
Not yet, but if we continue like that, we will have to !
Thank you in advance for your help.
> Selamat bekerja.
"Selamat" is the Malagasy "salama", of course both words come from
Arabian and mean "healthy, good".
I forgot the meaning of "bekerja" (and of most of the words you used in
the above sentence, but in fact I remember I did know the meaning of
several of them when I studied Indonesian).
Thank you in advance for your contributions.
Dominique Dumont
> Izzy
Dominique Dumont
Look at <soc.culture.malagasy> or <soc.culture.filipino>, the entire
thread is still there.
Thank you for your assistance. Are you an expert in the subject ?
Regards,
Dominique Dumont
Dominique Dumont
lahi wrote:
>
> Alexander B. Ilagan wrote:
>
> ...I have known before that Tagalog is an Autronesian or
> > Malayo-Polynesian language, but I have never known that this family group extended all the way to Madagascar! ...
> ---------------------
> By the 15th century, Austronesian speakers certainly extended from as
> far west as Madagascar and as far east as Easter Island. It was the
> most widespread language family at the time. There's some
> speculations that the Austronesian speaking peoples even reached
> Africa and the Americas by that time. There are tribes in Mexico and
> the Amazon who share identical cultures
Yes ?? Which tribes in Mexico and in the Amazon ??
> like weaving patterns and use
> of blowguns, to Austronesian/Malay tribes in Borneo.
> According to the
> legends of the Malays who settled Madagascar, they initially landed in
> a land north of Madagascar, perhaps the region that is now Kenya and
> Somalia,
More likely Tanzania. This is not a legend, I think that most historians
agree now on this fact.
Here follows a new list of words that are cognates :
Malagasy : "official", dialects / Austronesian : "Indonesian", others
"ady", aly / "adu" (fight)
"aferu" / "empedu", peru (bile)
"afu" / "api", "abu", awu (fire)
"ahu", iahu / "aku" (I, me)
"ala" / alas (forest)
"ampaly" / "ampelas" (kind of tree)
"ampinga" / ampingan, tameng (shield)
"anarana", angara / aran (name)
"arina", ary, aringa / "arang", areng (carbone, charcoal)
"aty" / "hati", ati (here)
"antuka", "miantuka"/ antuk, mantuk (caution, to guarantee)
"dinta" / "lintah" (leech)
"duka" / duku, dua (praise, boast)
"entina", ety, enty / enteng (carried)
"faitra", "mafaitra" / "pahit", pait (bitterness, bitter)
"fana", "mamana" / "panas" (heat, to heat)
"fenu", "mamenu" / "penuh" (full, to fill)
"fery" / "pedih", perih (pain, suffering)
"firy" "tsy firy" / pira, ora pira (how much, not much)
"futsy", futy, foty / "putih" (white)
"guka", "miguka" / "teguk", "meneguk" (to gulp down)
"guny", "mitafy guny"/ "guni" (jute, to wear jute (being very poor))
"hantuna", "mihantuna"/ "gantung", aggantung (suspend, suspended)
"haruna" / karung (1. basket, 2. to dig, to search)
"havana", hava / kawan (parent or allied person)
"helatra", helatse / "kilat" (to flash, to gleam)
"helika" / "ketiak", kelek (armpit)
"hetsy" / keti (100.000)
"hirana" / kirana (light, gleam)
"huraka", "manguraka" / surak (1. surprise 2. emotion, pity)
"hurakuraka" / surak-surak (leading to noise, rumor)
"huruna", "manguruna" / "gulung" (to roll, to wrap, to carry off)
"iny", "ity", "itu" / "itu", "ini" (that, this)
I finish with the following malagasy expressions :
"ity taun'ity" or "taun'itu" (!), which mean : "this year".
For the New Year :
"Arahaba tratry ny tauna !" : Greetings (to those) caught by the year.
Thank you to everybody for your complements (past and future).
Dominique Dumont
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> lahi wrote:
By the 15th century, Austronesian speakers certainly extended from as
> > far west as Madagascar and as far east as Easter Island. It was the
> > most widespread language family at the time. There's some
> > speculations that the Austronesian speaking peoples even reached
> > Africa and the Americas by that time. There are tribes in Mexico and
> > the Amazon who share identical cultures
>
> Yes ?? Which tribes in Mexico and in the Amazon ??
>
> > like weaving patterns and use
> > of blowguns, to Austronesian/Malay tribes in Borneo.
I read this from books dealing with Polynesian history. There are
speculations that Malayan sailors landed along the western coast of
the Americas, and intermingled with the native Indian tribes. There
are Indian tribes dating back before the Incas who built mountain
terraces similar to the Igorot rice terraces in the Philippines.
Also, the Olmec head statues which have flat and broad noses resemble
Malayan features.
> > According to the
> > legends of the Malays who settled Madagascar, they initially landed in
> > a land north of Madagascar, perhaps the region that is now Kenya and
> > Somalia,
>
> More likely Tanzania. This is not a legend, I think that most historians
> agree now on this fact.
-----------
I wonder how early the ancient Austronesians/Malayans arrived in
Africa? Do you have any sources indicating they were in contact with
the ancient Egyptians or the ancient Phoenicians who were also known
as maritime traders? It seems that the ancient Malayans were engaged
in trade, with at least, the people of southern India. Via India,
they probably made contacts with people from Africa and the Arabian
peninsula.
Clovis
Dominique Dumont wrote:
> Malagasy : "official", dialects / Austronesian : "Indonesian", others
> "ady", aly / "adu" (fight)
Kapampangan: laban
> "aferu" / "empedu", peru (bile)
> "afu" / "api", "abu", awu (fire)
Kapampangan: api
> "ahu", iahu / "aku" (I, me)
Kapampangan: aku
> "ala" / alas (forest)
Kapampangan: gubat
> "ampaly" / "ampelas" (kind of tree)
Kapampangan: tanaman (tree)
> "ampinga" / ampingan, tameng (shield)
Kapampangan: sagka
> "anarana", angara / aran (name)
Kapampangan: lagyu
> "arina", ary, aringa / "arang", areng (carbone, charcoal)
Kapampangan: uling
> "aty" / "hati", ati (here)
Kapampangan: keni,keti
> "antuka", "miantuka"/ antuk, mantuk (caution, to guarantee) Kapampangan: pakakalale
>
> "dinta" / "lintah" (leech)
Kapanpangan: linta
> "duka" / duku, dua (praise, boast)
Kapampangan: pag-maragul
>
> "entina", ety, enty / enteng (carried)
Kapampangan: dela (past ) dela ke - I carried it.
dadalan (present) dadalan ke - I'm carrying it.
dalan (imperative) dalan me - carry it.
dala (imperarive) dala me - carry it.
>
> "faitra", "mafaitra" / "pahit", pait (bitterness, bitter)
Kapampangan: mapait - bitter
kapaitan - bitterness
> "fana", "mamana" / "panas" (heat, to heat)
Kapampangan: ipali - to heat
pali - heat
> "fenu", "mamenu" / "penuh" (full, to fill)
Kapampangan: katmuan,sapakan - to fill
sapak - full
> "fery" / "pedih", perih (pain, suffering)
Kapampangan: sakit - pain
kasakitan - suffering
> "firy" "tsy firy" / pira, ora pira (how much, not much)
Kapampangan: magkanu - how much
dakal - many
e dakal - not much, not many
ditak - few
e ditak - not few
> "futsy", futy, foty / "putih" (white)
Kapampangan: maputi
>
> "guka", "miguka" / "teguk", "meneguk" (to gulp down)
Kapampangan: asmulan - to gulp down, to swallow
> "guny", "mitafy guny"/ "guni" (jute, to wear jute (being very poor))
Kapampangan: kalulu - poor
matipid - frugal, cheap
>
> "hantuna", "mihantuna"/ "gantung", aggantung (suspend, suspended)
Kapampangan: tuknang - suspend as in stop
ibitin - suspend as in hanging
makatuknang - suspended
mebitin - suspended
> "haruna" / karung (1. basket, 2. to dig, to search)
Kapampangan: paintunan - to search
kulkulan - to dig
> "havana", hava / kawan (parent or allied person)
Kapampangan: pengari - parents
kasabuat - allied person
> "helatra", helatse / "kilat" (to flash, to gleam)
Kapampangan: kintab - flash, gleam
kikintab - flashy
> "helika" / "ketiak", kelek (armpit)
Kapampangan: kili-kili
> "hetsy" / keti (100.000)
Kapampangan: dinalan
> "hirana" / kirana (light, gleam)
Kapampangan: sulu
> "huraka", "manguraka" / surak (1. surprise 2. emotion, pity)
Kapampangan: pakirut - surprise
lunus - pity
> "hurakuraka" / surak-surak (leading to noise, rumor)
Kapampangan: sigla - noise
sabi-sabi - rumor
> "huruna", "manguruna" / "gulung" (to roll, to wrap, to carry off)
Kapampangan: ibalut - to wrap
idala - to carry
>
> "iny", "ity", "itu" / "itu", "ini" (that, this)
Kapampangan: ini - this
ita - that
deta - those
deni - these
detangan - all of those, all of that
deningan - all of these
> "ity taun'ity" or "taun'itu" (!), which mean : "this year".
Kapampangan: Ngening banua iti.
>
> For the New Year :
> "Arahaba tratry ny tauna !" : Greetings (to those) caught by the year.
Kapampangan: may be you meant to say happy new year:
Mayap a banua!
mayap - good
Dominique Dumont
lahi wrote:
>
> I wonder how early the ancient Austronesians/Malayans arrived in
> Africa?
According to the specialists, not before the 4th century after J.C.
The first migrations may go back to the 4th-5th century, but they also
have continued during a very long period.
Some experts say that the percentage (pretty low) of sanskrit words in
Malagasy allow them to give an approximate date for the start of the
migrations.
> Do you have any sources indicating they were in contact with
> the ancient Egyptians or the ancient Phoenicians who were also known
> as maritime traders?
No, these civilisations were prominent before J.C., not after J.C.
> It seems that the ancient Malayans were engaged
> in trade, with at least, the people of southern India.
Yes, there were hinduist empires in West Indonesia from the 7th century
to the 12th century (Crivijaya, Cailendra, Maratam, Modjopahit? Jambi),
and the western indonesian languages have influenced the Malagasy
(probably originated in Kalimanatan).
> Via India,
> they probably made contacts with people from Africa and the Arabian
> peninsula.
Exactly so. The Persans and the Arabs knew the ancestors of the
Malagasy. They said that these people migrating towards Africa were
coming from a country called Qumr or Komr, or called as being "the
islands of Waqwaq" (one has made the assumption that the malagasy word
"vahuaka" (people) might come from that name). According to the Arabian
historian Ibn al Munjawir (13th century), these people settled in Aden
for a while, then they went along the African coast toward South (actual
Somalia and Tanzania), then to the Comores Islands.
During their stay in East Africa, they were put in strong contacts with
together the Arabs and the bantu-swahili cultures. This explains :
- the great number of arabian and bantu words in the Malagasy language
(at least 200 or 300, to be compared to at least 500 austronesian words)
- the old influence of the islamic and african cultures in the Malagasy
civilisation (even though only 5 % of the Malagasy are Muslims
presently)
- the simple fact that a large majority of the Malagasy population is
black (or metis - a crossbreed with blacks), but the origin of the black
population of Madagascar is still the object of a poisonning
controversy.
Dominique Dumont
Alexander B. Ilagan
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996, John J. Cristobal wrote:
> > The word for hand in Tagalog and other Phil. dialects is "lima"
> "kamay" denotes 'hand.' "lima" is for 'five.'
> "tangan" means 'held in hand.' (All in Tagalog.)
The standard word in tagalog for finger is daliri while thumb
is hinlalaki, which means "big" a reference to the fact that it was the
biggest "daliri".
-alex ilagan
Kristian Jensen
On 28/12/96 11:48, in message <32C4FA...@math.u-strasbg.fr>, Dominique
Dumont <dum...@math.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
I have asked my Ilocana mother for the corresponding Ilocano words. I hope this
might interest you, Dominique.
BTW, Ilocano is spoken in Northern part of Luzon Island.
> Here follows a new list of words that are cognates :
>
> Malagasy : "official", dialects / Austronesian : "Indonesian", others
>
> "ady", aly / "adu" (fight)
Ilocano: laban
> "aferu" / "empedu", peru (bile)
Ilocano: pungtut (if bile means anger or irritability)
> "afu" / "api", "abu", awu (fire)
Ilocano: apoy
> "ahu", iahu / "aku" (I, me)
Ilocano: siak
> "ala" / alas (forest)
Ilocano: bakir
> "ampaly" / "ampelas" (kind of tree)
There is a vine in the Philippines called "ampalaya", also known as the bitter
cucumber in English.
> "ampinga" / ampingan, tameng (shield)
Ilocano: sarapa
> "anarana", angara / aran (name)
Ilocano: nagan
> "arina", ary, aringa / "arang", areng (carbone, charcoal)
Ilocano: uging
> "aty" / "hati", ati (here)
Ilocano: ditoy
> "antuka", "miantuka"/ antuk, mantuk (caution, to guarantee)
Ilocano: garantiya (from Spanish)
> "dinta" / "lintah" (leech)
Ilocano: alimatek (earth worms are called "alinta")
> "duka" / duku, dua (praise, boast)
Ilocano: langsut
> "entina", ety, enty / enteng (carried)
Ilocano: bitbit (root verb)
binitbit (past tense)
> "faitra", "mafaitra" / "pahit", pait (bitterness, bitter)
Ilocono: nagpait, pait
> "fana", "mamana" / "panas" (heat, to heat)
Ilocano: pudot, ipapudot
> "fenu", "mamenu" / "penuh" (full, to fill)
Ilocano: napunno, punnuen
> "fery" / "pedih", perih (pain, suffering)
Ilocano: sakit
> "firy" "tsy firy" / pira, ora pira (how much, not much)
Ilocano: sagmamano (how much, how expensive/cheap -cost)
nalaka laeng (not much, cheap)
> "futsy", futy, foty / "putih" (white)
Ilocano: puraw
> "guka", "miguka" / "teguk", "meneguk" (to gulp down)
Ilocano: tilmun
> "guny", "mitafy guny"/ "guni" (jute, to wear jute (being very poor))
Ilocano: panglaw (poor)
> "hantuna", "mihantuna"/ "gantung", aggantung (suspend, suspended)
Ilocano: bitin (hanging)
> "haruna" / karung (1. basket, 2. to dig, to search)
Ilocano: 1. basket, 2. agkali (to dig), agbiruk (to search, find)
> "havana", hava / kawan (parent or allied person)
Ilocano: nagannak (parents), kasabwat (allied person)
> "helatra", helatse / "kilat" (to flash, to gleam)
Ilocano: kidlat
> "helika" / "ketiak", kelek (armpit)
Ilocano: kilikili
> "hetsy" / keti (100.000)
Ilocano: sangagusut nga ribu
> "hirana" / kirana (light, gleam)
Ilocano: silaw
> "huraka", "manguraka" / surak (1. surprise 2. emotion, pity)
Ilocano: 1. kigtut (surprise), 2. kaasi (pity)
> "hurakuraka" / surak-surak (leading to noise, rumor)
Ilocano: tsismis (rumor)
> "huruna", "manguruna" / "gulung" (to roll, to wrap, to carry off)
Ilocano: bungon (wrap), bungonen (to wrap)
> "iny", "ity", "itu" / "itu", "ini" (that, this)
Ilocano: dayta (that), daytoy (this)
>
> I finish with the following malagasy expressions :
>
> "ity taun'ity" or "taun'itu" (!), which mean : "this year".
Ilocano: "daytoy nga tawen"
>
> For the New Year :
> "Arahaba tratry ny tauna !" : Greetings (to those) caught by the year.
Ilocano: "Naimbag nga baro nga tawen" (best wishes for the new year)
Kristian Jensen
On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:26:34 +0100, Dominique Dumont
<dum...@math.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
>Hello everybody,
>
>I would like to start a kind of "dictionnary" of the similarities
>between the malagasy language (the language spoken in Madagascar) and
>the other languages of the Austronesian family, such as Indonesian
>(bahasa indonesia), Malay, Javanese, Sunda, Tagalog, Maanjan (from
>Borneo-Kalimantan), Bugi (from Celebes-Sulawesi), etc. etc.
>
>Examples :
>
I have asked my Ilocana mother to give the corresponding words in Ilocano. I
hope you can use these.
>"rua" / "dua", rua (two)
Ilocano: dua
>"telu" / telu (Jawa) (three)
Ilocano: tallo
>"efatra" / "empat" (four)
Ilocano: uppat
>"dimy", limy / "lima" (five)
Ilocano: lima
>"fitu" / pitu (Jawa) (seven)
Ilocano: pitu
>"valu" / wolu (Jawa) (eight)
Ilocano: walo
>"fulu" / "puluh" (ten)
Ilocano: sangapulo
>"arivu" / "seribu", ribuh (thousand)
Ilocano: ribo (thousand), sangaribu (one-thousand)
>"vatu", batu / "batu", watu (stone)
Ilocano: bato
>"lava" / dawa (long)
Ilocano: atiddog
>"ranu" / ranu (water)
Ilocano: danum
>"uluna", ulu / ulum (person)
Ilocano: tao
>"lalana" / "jalan", dalan (street, way)
Ilocano: kalsada (street), dalan (way)
>"lanitra", langitse / "langit" (sky)
Ilocano: langit
>"zanaka", anaka / "anak" (child)
Ilocano: anak
>"sulu" / sulih (Jawa), sulu (Sulawesi) (substitute)
Ilocano: isukat (1. substitute, 2. measure, 3. to fit/try)
>"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
Ilocano: buok
>"vady", valy / vali (Sulawesi) (husband, wife)
Ilocano: asawa
>"vuvuka" / "buruk", bubuk (dust)
Ilocano: tapuk
>
Hope this helps a little. Regards from me and my Mom.
Kristian Jensen
&
Leonora Ligsay Jensen
garisol
I'm not trying to be a linguis, I just want to add/point something to this
list.
Kristian Jensen (klje...@image.dk) wrote:
: On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:26:34 +0100, Dominique Dumont
: <dum...@math.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
: >Hello everybody,
: >I would like to start a kind of "dictionnary" of the similarities
: >between the malagasy language (the language spoken in Madagascar) and
: >the other languages of the Austronesian family, such as Indonesian
: >(bahasa indonesia), Malay, Javanese, Sunda, Tagalog, Maanjan (from
: >Borneo-Kalimantan), Bugi (from Celebes-Sulawesi), etc. etc.
: >
: >Examples :
: >
: I have asked my Ilocana mother to give the corresponding words in Ilocano. I
: hope you can use these.
: >"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
: Ilocano: buok
In Tagalog, "bulo" means the short hairs on leaves of plants, or
the fuzz(sp) on butterflies' wings. I don't know if it has been posted,
just my .02.
--
Fina (gar...@netcom.com)
Los Angeles,CA
Happy Holidays to All !!
Dominique Dumont
Thank you, Fina.
In Malagasy, the word "vulu", "bulu" has different meanings
- "hair"
- "colour"
- "bamboo"
The main colours are, in Malagasy
- "futsy", malandy (white)
- "mavu" (yellow)
- "maitsu" (green)
- "mena" (red)
- "manga" (blue)
- "manja" (grey)
- "mainty", juby (black)
- vulum-parasy (flea colour, violet)
- vulum-boasary (orange colour)
The word "manga" means also "beautiful".
I continue the list of cognates with other words starting by the letters
K and L, with the same conventions as before, as follows :
Malagasy "official", dialectal / Austronesian "Indonesian", others
"kambana" / "kembar" (twin, coupled, arranged)
"kasuka" / "gosok" (rub)
"kibu" / kebuk, "perut" (stomach, abdomen, tickle)
"kintana", kintanga / lintang, "bintang" (star)
"kitamby" / klambi (loincloth)
"kitikitika" / "kitik-kitik" (to touch, to tickle)
"lay" / lai, le (polynesian) (sail)
"lakana", laka / vaka, vaha (polynesian) (pirogue)
"lalana" / dalan, "jalan" (way, street)
"lanitra", langitsy, langitse / "langit", lagi (sky)
"laoka" / "lauk" (food, dish of food)
"lava" / dawa, "tangan" (long)
"lela" / "lidah", ilah, alelo (tongue)
"lua" / lua (polynesian) (vomit)
This list is to be continued, and commented by our friends.
Dominique Dumont
garisol
This is getting interesting....
Dominique Dumont (dum...@math.u-strasbg.fr) wrote:
: I continue the list of cognates with other words starting by the letters
: K and L, with the same conventions as before, as follows :
: Malagasy "official", dialectal / Austronesian "Indonesian", others
: "kambana" / "kembar" (twin, coupled, arranged)
The tTagalog term for 'twin' is 'kambal'.
: "kasuka" / "gosok" (rub)
: "kibu" / kebuk, "perut" (stomach, abdomen, tickle)
: "kintana", kintanga / lintang, "bintang" (star)
: "kitamby" / klambi (loincloth)
: "kitikitika" / "kitik-kitik" (to touch, to tickle)
Tagalog: kiliti-- "to tickle"
(at the same time, the person says "kiti-kiti")
: "lay" / lai, le (polynesian) (sail)
: "lakana", laka / vaka, vaha (polynesian) (pirogue)
: "lalana" / dalan, "jalan" (way, street)
: "lanitra", langitsy, langitse / "langit", lagi (sky)
Tagalog: langit - "sky"
: "laoka" / "lauk" (food, dish of food)
: "lava" / dawa, "tangan" (long)
Tagalog: haba--lenght, mahaba-- "long"
: "lela" / "lidah", ilah, alelo (tongue)
Tagalog: dila --"tongue"
: "lua" / lua (polynesian) (vomit)
Tagalog: luwa-- to spit (it)out
: This list is to be continued, and commented by our friends.
: Dominique Dumont
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> In Malagasy, the word "vulu", "bulu" has different meanings
>
> - "hair"
> - "colour"
> - "bamboo"
In Tagalog, the word for "hair" is "buhok" or "buek" in another Phil.
dialect; "color" is "kulay" (probably Spanish in origin); and "bamboo"
is "kawayan". One variety of bamboo is called "bolo". The interior
part of the province of Pangasinan in the northern Philippines was
once called "Kaboloan" which means "place of the bolo (bamboos)".
There are many varieties of bamboo which are called by different
names.
>
> The main colours are, in Malagasy
>
> - "futsy", malandy (white)
Tagalog: "puti"
> - "mavu" (yellow)
Tagalog: "dilaw"; Pangasinan: "duyaw"
> - "maitsu" (green)
Tagalog: "lunti" ("berde" is more common but of Spanish origin)
> - "mena" (red)
Tagalog: "pula";
> - "manga" (blue)
Tagalog: "bughaw" ("asul" is more common but of Spanish origin)
The word for "mango" is "manga".
> - "manja" (grey)
Tagalog: "kulay-abo"
> - "mainty", juby (black)
Tagalog: "itim"
> - vulum-parasy (flea colour, violet)
> - vulum-boasary (orange colour)
-------
What's the word for "brown" in Malagasy? In Tagalog, it's
"kayumanggi".
>
> The word "manga" means also "beautiful".
-------
In Tagalog: "beautiful" is "maganda" or "magana" in another Phil.
dialect.
>
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> "kitikitika" / "kitik-kitik" (to touch, to tickle)
"tickle". Just imagine, the word used by the ancient Malay people
when they tickle their babies is still the same.
>
> "lay" / lai, le (polynesian) (sail)
> "lakana", laka / vaka, vaha (polynesian) (pirogue)
> "lalana" / dalan, "jalan" (way, street)
> "lanitra", langitsy, langitse / "langit", lagi (sky)
Tagalog: "langit"
> "laoka" / "lauk" (food, dish of food)
> "lava" / dawa, "tangan" (long)
Tagalog: "haba" (long)
> "lela" / "lidah", ilah, alelo (tongue)
Tagalog: "dila"
A Philippine historian speculates that the origin of the word "Manila"
is "may-dila".
> "lua" / lua (polynesian) (vomit)
Tagalog: "lua" is the word for tears. The word for "vomit" is suka.
A northern Phil. dialect's word for "vomit" is also "lua".
Kristian Jensen
On 04/01/97 15:54, in message <32CE6F...@math.u-strasbg.fr>, Dominique
Dumont <dum...@math.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> In Malagasy, the word "vulu", "bulu" has different meanings
>
> - "hair"
Ilocano: "buok"
> - "colour"
Ilocano: "kulor"
> - "bamboo"
Ilocano: "kawayan"
>
> The main colours are, in Malagasy
>
> - "futsy", malandy (white)
Ilocano: "puraw"
> - "mavu" (yellow)
Ilocano: "kiyaw"
> - "maitsu" (green)
Ilocano: "berde"
> - "mena" (red)
Ilocano: "nalabaga"
> - "manga" (blue)
Ilocano: "asul"
> - "manja" (grey)
Ilocano: "kulor dapu"
> - "mainty", juby (black)
Ilocano: "nangisit"
> - vulum-parasy (flea colour, violet)
Ilocano: "bioleta" "lili"
> - vulum-boasary (orange colour)
Ilocano: "kulor orange" "kulor balitok" (balitok means golden)
> The word "manga" means also "beautiful".
Ilocano: "napintas"
>
> I continue the list of cognates with other words starting by the letters
> K and L, with the same conventions as before, as follows :
>
> Malagasy "official", dialectal / Austronesian "Indonesian", others
>
> "kambana" / "kembar" (twin, coupled, arranged)
Ilocano: "singin" (twin), "parehas" (coupled), "tinarimaan" (arranged)
> "kasuka" / "gosok" (rub)
Ilocano: "kuskos"
> "kibu" / kebuk, "perut" (stomach, abdomen, tickle)
Ilocano: "tiyan" (stomach, abdomen), kili-kili (tickle)
> "kintana", kintanga / lintang, "bintang" (star)
Ilocano: "bituen"
> "kitamby" / klambi (loincloth)
Ilocano: "baag"
> "kitikitika" / "kitik-kitik" (to touch, to tickle)
Ilocano: "sagiden" (to touch), kilye-kilyen (to tickle)
> "lay" / lai, le (polynesian) (sail)
Ilocano: "barangay" (sailboat), nagbarangay (someone sailed)
> "lakana", laka / vaka, vaha (polynesian) (pirogue)
Ilocano: "takuli"
> "lalana" / dalan, "jalan" (way, street)
Ilocano: "dalan" (way), "kalsada" (street)
> "lanitra", langitsy, langitse / "langit", lagi (sky)
Ilocano: "langit"
> "laoka" / "lauk" (food, dish of food)
Ilocano: "kanen"
> "lava" / dawa, "tangan" (long)
Ilocano: "atiddog"
> "lela" / "lidah", ilah, alelo (tongue)
Ilocano: "dila"
> "lua" / lua (polynesian) (vomit)
Ilocano: "sarwa"
> This list is to be continued, and commented by our friends.
>
> Dominique Dumont
Note: Ilocano (as with many other Filipino languages) has a lot of Spanish
influence. If you know Spanish, I'm sure you will be able to see this
influence. Eg.: "kalsada" (from the Spanish "calsada" meaning street, "kulor"
(from the Spanish "color" meaning colour, and "asul" (from the Spanish "azul"
meaning blue).
Regards,
Kristian Jensen
and
Leonora Ligsay Jensen
Rivo
Manao ahoana daholo,
Just a point about the words given by Dominique for comparison. The
letter u is absent in the Malagasy alphabet. Please, see a o for
each u in these words (pronounce like in book).
Juste une remarque : la lettre u est inconnue au bataillon. Chaque u des
divers mots donnnes par Dominique est un o (prononcer ou pour les franco-
phones comme dans coup).
Misaotra betsaka amin'ireny teny fanoharana rehetra ireny e.
Thanks for all of these words.
Merci pour tous ces mots.
Mandrapihaona daholo,
Rivo
Dominique Dumont
lahi wrote:
> What's the word for "brown" in Malagasy? In Tagalog, it's
> "kayumanggi".
I do not hink there is a word, I do not know in fact...
I think most of the people would say "vulun-tsokola" (chocolate colour)
or something like that.
> > The word "manga" means also "beautiful".
> -------
> In Tagalog: "beautiful" is "maganda" or "magana" in another Phil.
> dialect.
In Malagasy, the word "manga" has various meanings :
- the fruit (mango), but this is not surprising nor interesting, it is
an international word...
- the colour "blue" : most of the experts say that this word is from
african-bantu origin
- "beautiful" or "excellent". Examples : "manga feu" (beautiful voice)
"ulumanga" (elite, celebrated persons).
I have always been told that "manga" (blue) and "manga" (excellent) is
in fact the same word, not to be considered as two words coming from
distinct origins. But do the experts know about the existence of your
"magana" in Philippines ? This is a question to be raised.
There is a similar problem with the word "hazu" (tree, wood). It is
sometimes mentionned as bantu, sometimes as austronesian ("kaju").
From these two words are made two different derivations :
- "Mangahazu" is the "manioc"
- "Hazumanga" is a magical tree for some Malagasy ethnic groups
(especially in the South).
Dominique Dumont
Argabioso. Maria Juris A.
Regards to you ........
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, garisol wrote:
> I'm not trying to be a linguis, I just want to add/point something to this
> list.
>
> Kristian Jensen (klje...@image.dk) wrote:
> : On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:26:34 +0100, Dominique Dumont
> : <dum...@math.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
>
> : >Hello everybody,
> : >I would like to start a kind of "dictionnary" of the similarities
> : >between the malagasy language (the language spoken in Madagascar) and
> : >the other languages of the Austronesian family, such as Indonesian
> : >(bahasa indonesia), Malay, Javanese, Sunda, Tagalog, Maanjan (from
> : >Borneo-Kalimantan), Bugi (from Celebes-Sulawesi), etc. etc.
> : >
> : >Examples :
> : >
> : I have asked my Ilocana mother to give the corresponding words in Ilocano. I
> : hope you can use these.
>
>
> : >"vulu", bulu / "bulu", buluh, wulu (hair)
> : Ilocano: buok
>
> In Tagalog, "bulo" means the short hairs on leaves of plants, or
> the fuzz(sp) on butterflies' wings. I don't know if it has been posted,
> just my .02.
>
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
>
> There is a similar problem with the word "hazu" (tree, wood). It is
> sometimes mentionned as bantu, sometimes as austronesian ("kaju").
>
In Tagalog, the word for "tree" or "wood" is "kahoy". In other Phil.
dialects, like Ilocano, it's "kayu" (pronounced like kah-you) or
"kiew". Probably, "kaju" and "kayo" are the same austronesian words.
I believe the word "kayu", which means wood or wooden, is one of the
root words of the word "kayu-manggi", which literally means "wooden
hue" but is often translated as "brown" or "tan".
> From these two words are made two different derivations :
>
> - "Mangahazu" is the "manioc"
> - "Hazumanga" is a magical tree for some Malagasy ethnic groups
> (especially in the South).
>
> Dominique Dumont
-------------
Can you please write down the Malagasy alphabets and their
pronounciations? This would make it easier to compare Malagasy words
with Tagalog or other Austronesian languages. It seems that the
letter "y" in Tagalog is prounounced like the letter "j" in Malagasy.
Dominique Dumont
lahi wrote:
>
-------------
> Can you please write down the Malagasy alphabets and their
> pronounciations? This would make it easier to compare Malagasy words
> with Tagalog or other Austronesian languages. It seems that the
> letter "y" in Tagalog is prounounced like the letter "j" in Malagasy.
Well, your post and another recent by Rivo prove that I should have
started with that...
The alphabet is quite simple in Malagasy :
1) There are 4 wowels :
"a", "e", "i" or "y", "o" (written "o" but pronounced u)
In almost all the languages around the world, the sound "u" is written
"u", except
- in English where it is written sometimes "o" (in the english word
"to") or "oo" (in the english words "too" or "look")
- in French where it is written "ou"
- in Malagasy where it is written "o"
In addition, "i" and "y" are equivalent in Malagasy, the difference is
that when the sound "i" appears as the final letter of a word, it is
written "y", and only in this case.
Examples : "Gasikara" or "Madagasikara" (with "i" in the middle of the
word) means "Madagascar" ;
"Gasy" or "Malagasy" (with "y" at the end) means "Malagasy".
The proximity of the Malagasy vowels with the English vowels is due to
the fact that the Malagasy alphabet was invented by british protestant
missionaries around 1820.
2) The consouns are the same as in English, with a few particularities :
- the consouns "c", "q", "w" and "x" do not exist in Malagasy
- the consoun "s" is pronounced as intermediate between the english
sounds "s" and "sh" (in fact, the Malagasy consider these two sounds as
equivalent)
- the consoun "z" is the same as in english (example : "zero")
- the consoun "j" is pronounced "dz" (and not like "j" in english)
In my posts, I decided to make one and only one change :
to replace the Malagasy letter "o" by "u", because the letter "u" is
international and it makes the comparison more natural.
I would like here to point out that this convention is not new, this is
not "my" personal fantasy, all the linguists in the past who have
compared the Malagasy language with the Austronesian languages have made
this decision. They also have generally decided to replace "y" by "i",
so that they write for example "futsi" instead of "fotsy" (white).
Personally, I think that the change "y-i" is less important for the
clarity of the exposition than the change "o-u".
Dominique Dumont
Dominique Dumont
Dominique Dumont wrote:
>
> lahi wrote:
>
> > What's the word for "brown" in Malagasy? In Tagalog, it's
> > "kayumanggi".
>
> I do not hink there is a word, I do not know in fact...
> I think most of the people would say "vulun-tsokola" (chocolate colour)
> or something like that.
Another expression is "vulun-bitsika" (ant colour).
"vitsika" means "ant" in english ("fourmi" in french).
"manguruvitsika" means "to have pins and needles in one's legs".
I'll continue the list of cognates with the letter M in a few days.
Let me start here with some general considerations concerning verbs :
In Malagasy, the verbs have the prefix "mi-" or "man-".
There are many words with the prefix "ma-" or "man-" (in dialectal
Malagasy, it is often pronounced "mang-"),
this prefix corresponds to the austronesian "men-" or "meng-".
Examples :
Malagasy "mamana" (root : "fana") / Indonesian "memanas" (to heat)
Malagasy "manjaitra" (root : "zaitra") / "menjahit" (to sew)
Malagasy "manindry" (root : "tsindry") / "menindih" (to press)
On the other hand, there are two very commonly used verbs in Malagasy :
"manana" = to have
"manau" = to do ("atau" = to be done)
I have read somewhere that "Mana" is a very universal concept in the
austronesian civilisation, but I cannot tell much about that.
Any comment would be welcome.
More on the letter M soon.
Dominique Dumont
lahi
Dominique Dumont wrote:
> I'll continue the list of cognates with the letter M in a few days.
> Let me start here with some general considerations concerning verbs :
> In Malagasy, the verbs have the prefix "mi-" or "man-".
>
> There are many words with the prefix "ma-" or "man-" (in dialectal
> Malagasy, it is often pronounced "mang-"),
> this prefix corresponds to the austronesian "men-" or "meng-".
>
> Examples :
>
> Malagasy "mamana" (root : "fana") / Indonesian "memanas" (to heat)
> Malagasy "manjaitra" (root : "zaitra") / "menjahit" (to sew)
> Malagasy "manindry" (root : "tsindry") / "menindih" (to press)
---------------
In Tagalog, "manahi" (to sew). The prefix "ma" could mean "with" or
"to". I believe the root word is "tahi".
In Pangasinan, a northern Phil. dialect, it's "mandait" (to sew). The
prefix "man" means "to". The root word is "dait".
The presence of the words "menjahit", "manahi" or "mandait" in
present-day Austronesian languages indicates that the
Austronesian-speaking people already knew how to sew or weave before
they separated and migrated to different regions. This search for
common Austronesian words is very useful in re-creating the world of
those ancient Malay-Polynesians.
>
> On the other hand, there are two very commonly used verbs in Malagasy :
>
> "manana" = to have
> "manau" = to do ("atau" = to be done)
It seems that "ma", "men", or "man" in Malagasy are just prefixes as
in Tagalog which indicate some action or status of the word they
modify.
>
> I have read somewhere that "Mana" is a very universal concept in the
> austronesian civilisation, but I cannot tell much about that.
> Any comment would be welcome.
---------
The word "mana" can be found in the Polynesian languages as well as
the Malayan languages like Tagalog.
"Mana" is usually translated "spirit", "sacred power", "essence" or
"legacy". The word appears to have some religious or ritualistic
significance.
In the Philippines, the word "mana" appears to have lost its religious
significance. It is often used in the context of inheritance or to
mean an "inheritance".
>
> More on the letter M soon.
>
> Dominique Dumont
----------
Check out Paul Manansala's page about Austric/Austronesian language:
Dominique Dumont
lahi wrote:
>
> The presence of the words "menjahit", "manahi" or "mandait" in
> present-day Austronesian languages indicates that the
> Austronesian-speaking people already knew how to sew or weave before
> they separated and migrated to different regions. This search for
> common Austronesian words is very useful in re-creating the world of
> those ancient Malay-Polynesians.
Yes, it is obviously the same word, "manjaitra" is pronounced
"mandzaitra" in official Malagasy and "mandzaitse" in dialectal.
> The word "mana" can be found in the Polynesian languages as well as
> the Malayan languages like Tagalog.
>
> "Mana" is usually translated "spirit", "sacred power", "essence" or
> "legacy". The word appears to have some religious or ritualistic
> significance.
"Manana" means "to have" in official Malagasy. But in dialectal Malagasy
it is often "Mana". For example, the Bara (an ethnic group towards
South) have the following proverb :
"Aomby mana mila, anaky mana miteraky."
"Aomby" = zebu, humped ox, from african origin (the animal and the word)
"mila" = to need, to look for (I do not know the origin)
"anaky" = child, children (austronesian, of course...)
"miteraky" = to give birth ("terak" is maybe austronesian ? "tarika", to
draw, to lead, is from austronesian origin)
The sense of the proverb is
"The zebus have their shepherds (the people who need them), the children
have their parents."
> In the Philippines, the word "mana" appears to have lost its religious
> significance. It is often used in the context of inheritance or to
> mean an "inheritance".
Another Malagasy root for this concept of inheritance is "luva".
>
> Check out Paul Manansala's page about Austric/Austronesian language:
>
> http://www.he.net/~skyeagle/austric.htm
Thank you so much, this is a great site indeed ! I had a look at it,
there are a few references to Malagasy.
The question of the words of Sanskrit origin in Malagasy has given rise
to controversy in the past, Otto Dahl mentionning only 30-40 such words
and Dama-Ntsoha claiming that hundreds of words are of Sanskrit origin
in the Malagasy language.
Let us ask to contemporary experts, like Paul Manansala. I am mailing
the present message to him.
Dominique Dumont