Vaya silencio.
weste...@wums.wustl.edu
Si no fuese por lo del Mexican Almanac de jour estariamos aun peores.
Siento como si estuviese hablando al vacio; sera por la pantalla de
fondo negro y no por el volumen de trafico en este newsgroup...
No vayan por el grupo soc.culture.french, que les va a dar una envidia
horrible con lo tanto que hacen posts, siendo que son pocos los franco-
phones que quedan en la tierra hoy en dia... :-)
A ver, debo hacer que valga la pena este gasto de bandwidth; asi me
pongo a preguntar una cosa de los de la red...
Me graduare el anio que viene con titulo en espanol e informatica; me
gustaria poder trabajar o en espana o sudamerica en computacion. Cuales
ideas me pueden dar sobre en donde buscar trabajo y como conseguir uno
que me permita viajar un poco?
Tendre titulo de Washington University, experencia con todo tipo de
ordenador con hardware y software, alguna idea del frances, si eso les
ayuda con la pregunta...
Muchas gracias y a ver si no podemos meter un poco de vida por aqui,
tomar nuestro mate y bailar el flamenco por una vez!
--
/// William Westerman
OO Slightly Above Average Computer Consultant.
\
- Life's a beach. I got my towel.
victor.m.mendoza-grado
>Vaya, vaya, como estamos de callados, eh?
>Si no fuese por lo del Mexican Almanac de jour estariamos aun peores.
I guess everyone is busy or at least busy with their own
country's mailing list. The fact that the group is supposed to cover
aspects from more than one country or even one language makes people
to concentrate in their own cultural area of interest. Maybe we
should break down this group a bit further, by latitude, by country,
etc.
Some people would like to practice Spanish here but that idea
has inhibited some Brazilians. (By the way, can anybody mail me
or post the lyrics of the "Llorando se foi" [sic] in Portuguese?;-).
I'd suggest a mailing list or newsgroup to practice Spanish.
Perhaps sci.lang.spanish. (or Castilian for the purists).
Even the fact of posting the Mexican Almanac has created some
complaints from non-Mexican *Latin Americans*. I am beginning to
think that the frequency of the Almanac (daily!) leaves the
impression in other people that too much Mexican *publicity* is
invading the net, hence inhibiting them to contribute, discuss, etc.
(Perhaps nationalistic jelousy? Unfortunately, I've seenn some of
that a few times).
My intention is not that . I could unplug it right now since it
can be read also from the MEXICO-L (right out of Mexico, viva! :-)
but the feedback of other people has encouraged me to keep it
here (Doesn't take much effort anyway, just dealing with `hecklers`
from time to time, their problem!).
Also I commend Mr. Westerman for trying to start discussions and
give some life to this group. I hope he got good responses to his
postings. Related to one of his recent postings I'd like to
give it a shot to begin a discussion.
One of my favorite subjects and, I'm sure of many of you, is humor.
We as latinos always hear people saying how the "American" sense
of humor is not as good as ours. I can tell they are different
but not exactly being able to pinpoint the differences. I can see
sometimes Latin humor lacking subtlety but maybe it is just my
personal impression. Also, sometimes humor provides cross-cultural
clues. At times even if we make a good translation of a joke,
it doesn't quite cut it in the other language (not only because
of the linguistic aspects but because of other cultural factors).
Any funny anecdotes or thoughts on this topic? How the humor
in your country is different to that of the US or your neighbors?
What is the image of your nationality in the humor of others? (and
viceversa). (A dangerous subject?) I'll follow up later.
Salud!
Juan Carlos Guzman
(victor.m.mendoza-grado) writes:
> In article <3333.2...@wums.wustl.edu> weste...@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>
>
> country's mailing list. The fact that the group is supposed to cover
> aspects from more than one country or even one language makes people
> to concentrate in their own cultural area of interest. Maybe we
> should break down this group a bit further, by latitude, by country,
> etc.
> Some people would like to practice Spanish here but that idea
> has inhibited some Brazilians. (By the way, can anybody mail me
> or post the lyrics of the "Llorando se foi" [sic] in Portuguese?;-).
> I'd suggest a mailing list or newsgroup to practice Spanish.
> Perhaps sci.lang.spanish. (or Castilian for the purists).
> Even the fact of posting the Mexican Almanac has created some
> complaints from non-Mexican *Latin Americans*. I am beginning to
> think that the frequency of the Almanac (daily!) leaves the
> impression in other people that too much Mexican *publicity* is
> invading the net, hence inhibiting them to contribute, discuss, etc.
> (Perhaps nationalistic jelousy? Unfortunately, I've seenn some of
> that a few times).
Yo soy venezolano, y no me siento nada identificado con el almanaque
mejicano. Ni lo leo. Sencillamente lo tengo en mi `KILL' file.
Me pregunto si un calendario LATINOAMERICANO no es mejor? Por ejemplo,
cuantos saben que el 19 de Abril de 1810 (Jueves Santo) fue el dia en
que se proclamo la independencia venezolana en el cabildo de Caracas?
El calendario mejicano para ese dia (Mexican Almanac for Apr. 19, 1990)
dijo lo siguiente:
Day of the Indigenes
1572
Fr. Pedro de Gante (1486-1572) dies in Mexico. He was the
first teacher of Spanish for the native population.
Nuestros paises tienen muchas fechas *importantes* que pueden ir en
un almanaque comun. Asi, todos los latinoamericanos nos sentiriamos
motivados a leer dicho almanaque. Y los interesados en algun pais
latinoamericano tambien se van a sentir motivados, y se presentaran
fechas que son mas significativas en nuestra historia.
Juan Carlos Guzman.
Luigi Manna
>In article <14...@cbnewse.ATT.COM>, v...@cbnewse.ATT.COM
>(victor.m.mendoza-grado) writes:
>> In article <3333.2...@wums.wustl.edu> weste...@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>>
>> Even the fact of posting the Mexican Almanac has created some
>> complaints from non-Mexican *Latin Americans*. I am beginning to
>> think that the frequency of the Almanac (daily!) leaves the
>> impression in other people that too much Mexican *publicity* is
>> invading the net, hence inhibiting them to contribute, discuss, etc.
>> (Perhaps nationalistic jelousy? Unfortunately, I've seenn some of
>> that a few times).
>
>Yo soy venezolano, y no me siento nada identificado con el almanaque
>mejicano. Ni lo leo. Sencillamente lo tengo en mi `KILL' file.
Yo tambien soy venezolano y *SI* leo el almanaque mexicano. Yo en
realidad no entiendo como *tu* no te sientes *NADA* identificado con el
mismo ? Me vas perdonar Juan-Carlos pero el tipo de expresio'n que usas
se me hace muy localista y provinciana, y hasta cierto punto anti-mexicana.
El "ni lo leo" fue demasiado!!!
>Me pregunto si un calendario LATINOAMERICANO no es mejor? Por ejemplo,
>cuantos saben que el 19 de Abril de 1810 (Jueves Santo) fue el dia en
>que se proclamo la independencia venezolana en el cabildo de Caracas?
Por su puesto que es mejor sin embargo la persona que publica el bendito
almanaque mexicano tiene todo el derecho de publicar lo que le venga en
gana. Y creo ademas que la publicacio'n de un almanaque latinoamericano
seria una tarea lejos del alcance de quizas la mayoria de los lectores
de este grupo a menos que alguien posea un almanaque ya publicado del
cual nada mas habria que escojer los eventos mas relevantes.
>El calendario mejicano para ese dia (Mexican Almanac for Apr. 19, 1990)
>dijo lo siguiente:
>
> Day of the Indigenes
>
> 1572
> Fr. Pedro de Gante (1486-1572) dies in Mexico. He was the
> first teacher of Spanish for the native population.
>
Y como lo sabes ? No dices que tu sistema impunemente "ASESINA" los
pobres almanaques a penas son detectados para asi NUNCA leerlos ?!
( me disculpas el sarcasmo pero no me quedo' otra ).
Dejame sin embargo listarte algunos de los eventos publicados en el
almanaque que a mi entender tienen relevancia latino-americana o a
lo sumo te pueden llegar a interesar a titulo de cultura general.
1519
Hernan Cortes arrives on Mexican land for the first time.
1914
Military occupation of (four times heroic) Veracruz by the US marines
with the excuse of stopping British assistance to dictator Huerta.
1492
Christopher Columbus signs a treaty with the Kings of Spain to
search for a new route to the Indies.
1493
Christopher Columbus arrives in Barcelona, returned from his America
discovery trip.
1535
Hernan Cortes leaves Acapulco to explore the Pacific Ocean.
1790
Public illumination is established in Mexico City.
1930
Americas Day is established by the OAE.
1844
Texas is annexed to the USA.
1989
Government officials announce a tentative agreement with the IMF
for a loan to facilitate economical adjustment programs in Mexico.
1864
Miramar Treaty. A group of Mexican traitors arrive in Miramar (near
Trieste) to offer the crown of Mexico to Archduke Maximilian of Austria.
Emperor Napoleon III of France would support Maximilian with a treaty
conveying that the french troops (already in Mexico) would be
reduced to 25,000 including the Foreign Legion. Also, it specifies that
the expenses of the French armies would be paid by Mexico at a rate
of 270 millons of francs with 3% annual interest. Finally, Mexico would
pay France 66 millions of francs to include indemnification to French
residents in Mexico.
1919
Emiliano Zapata is murdered in Chinameca, Morelos.
Resulta obvio que la mayoria de los eventos son Mexicanos en su mas
pura expresion. Sin embargo algunos estan relacionados con sucesos de
orden global que afectaron o afectan a la mayoria de los paises latinos.
>Nuestros paises tienen muchas fechas *importantes* que pueden ir en
>un almanaque comun. Asi, todos los latinoamericanos nos sentiriamos
>motivados a leer dicho almanaque. Y los interesados en algun pais
>latinoamericano tambien se van a sentir motivados, y se presentaran
>fechas que son mas significativas en nuestra historia.
Totalmente de acuerdo pero el problema sigue presente. Quien se va a
hechar al lomo la tarea de publicar un almanaque latino-americano? Y en
fin si no te gustan los eventos mexicanos disfruta algunos de los
comentarios finales que alli' aparecen. Como por ejemplo:
"Not until the United States built its space-shuttle facilities at Cape
Canaveral, Florida, did America see any structures more massive than the
pyramids of Cholula and Teotihuacan" -- J. Weatherford _Indian Givers_
O si estas mal-humorado este quizas seria mas apropiado:
---------------------
"Pasaran mas de mil an~os, muchos mas,
yo nos se si tenga amor la eternidad,
pero alla, tal como aqui
en la boca llevaras sabor a mi"
-- Alvaro Carrillo ``Sabor a mi''
>Juan Carlos Guzman.
Un saludo,
Luigi Manna
victor.m.mendoza-grado
>In article <14...@cbnewse.ATT.COM> Victor.M.Mendoza Grado writes:
>> In article <3333.2...@wums.wustl.edu> weste...@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>>
>> >Si no fuese por lo del Mexican Almanac de jour estariamos aun peores.
>>
>> I guess everyone is busy or at least busy with their own
>> country's mailing list. The fact that the group is supposed to cover
>> aspects from more than one country or even one language makes people
>> to concentrate in their own cultural area of interest. Maybe we
>> should break down this group a bit further, by latitude, by country,
>> etc.
>> impression in other people that too much Mexican *publicity* is
>> invading the net, hence inhibiting them to contribute, discuss, etc.
>> (Perhaps nationalistic jelousy? Unfortunately, I've seenn some of
>> that a few times).
>
>Yo soy venezolano, y no me siento nada identificado con el almanaque
>mejicano. Ni lo leo. Sencillamente lo tengo en mi `KILL' file.
Fine and dandy with me, your own right.
>Me pregunto si un calendario LATINOAMERICANO no es mejor?
"mejor" for what? for you? I don't see anything wrong with all sorts
of almanacs coexisting with all types of postings about Latin America.
In fact, when I began posting the M. A. I was kind of expecting that
maybe similar or even better things (;-)would come out of the group with
the purpose of remembering the past to which L-A. is very much linked.
I would encourage anyone to post about his/her own country and I'm
sure many others, including from other countries, would like to
read about. However, I'd support the idea of creating a L-A. Almanac
and I'd be glad to contribute. I'd love to read from other countries,
even from other galaxies. :-)
>Por ejemplo,
>cuantos saben que el 19 de Abril de 1810 (Jueves Santo) fue el dia en
>que se proclamo la independencia venezolana en el cabildo de Caracas?
By *posting* it, you just increased the number of people who know it.
>El calendario mejicano para ese dia (Mexican Almanac for Apr. 19, 1990)
>dijo lo siguiente:
>
> Day of the Indigenes
>
> 1572
> Fr. Pedro de Gante (1486-1572) dies in Mexico. He was the
What's the point? Sorry to disappoint you if you expected something
else.
>Nuestros paises tienen muchas fechas *importantes* que pueden ir en
>un almanaque comun. Asi, todos los latinoamericanos nos sentiriamos
>motivados a leer dicho almanaque. Y los interesados en algun pais
>latinoamericano tambien se van a sentir motivados, y se presentaran
>fechas que son mas significativas en nuestra historia.
And who decides what's *important*? I know some people who will argue
that the Day of the Indigenes is really important and that the work
done by Fr. Pedro de Gante in Mexico shouldn't be forgotten. Likewise,
other people might not find important the official independence date of
a given country. It is a subjective matter, but fortunately we don't
have to worry about it. Anybody can post freely and others are free
to love it or leave it, with a fuzzy range in between.
Finally, I'd like to see an almanac for each country (it would be easier
for your 'KILL' file too:-) but I'd support the idea of a global almanac
for Latin America wholeheartedly. You won't create a traffic problem
in the net, believe me.
>Juan Carlos Guzman.
Victor
_______________________________________________________________________
Victor M. Mendoza Grado, AT&T Bell Laboratories
v...@ihlpy.att.com att!ihlpy!vmg
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> v...@ihlpy.att.com att!ihlpy!vmg
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