LAO SCRIPT: The Origin of Lao Writing System
James Bond
Arabic writing system. The Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans have their
own character writing system. But the Lao, Thai, Cambodian, Burmese,
and Indian have script writing stytem.
I think the Lao script is a sexy design. It has style and class. It's
pleasing to the eye. It looks good on paper and on television. It's
unique and different from other Asians.
So where did we get our fancy Lao script from? Did it come from
India?
legends1228
I am just speculating but Khmer empire exist before Lan Xang and those
Siamese. So we owed a lot to the Khmer. They gave us religion, Custom,
tradition, writing system. Khmer was heavily influence by Indian. So
we can somewhat make a conclusion.
pizone
the following text is the abstract of dr. keo inthavongsa paper he'll
present at the lao symposium at UC Berkeley on May 3rd. It's a very
interesting info on lao history, hope to see lots of lao people there
Abstract
Lao in Lao Shan, Lao Tian or in Laos (transformed from Laosu, Laotsu),
the people of 蘇ighland', 壮acred mountain' or 'noble mountain' is our
true racial name. Laosu or Laotsu signifying 全euar Lao' (Lao race) is
the Taoist philosopher name, Laotsu, meaning 創oble race' for 銑ao'
means 創oble', 壮acred' or 組reat'. Our ancestors were known as
occupiers of wide land south of Yangtse River to Yunnan and beyond
there in China to live on rice cultivation. Their most backward former
homeland is believed to be in Kiu-Lung or Lao Mountain range north of
Yunnan where they are known by another name as 禅ai' for 蘇ighland' or
蘇igh stage'. 禅hai' means 叢eople group', an unit to count human
tribes. From their feudalistic politeness, it is revealed that the
Laotians have had highly developed ruling system with ordered social
status as we can image from the Testament of Khun Borom. Nantchao
kingdom was a Laotian in Yunnan, and Lao language might be used
officially in the kingdom. It is believed that the Laotians intruded
into Indochina from Sip Song Phan Na to form the first 銑ao Royaume'
in the actual Laos leading to the rising of Lan Na kingdom and Xieng
Tong of Luang Prabang.
Key words: Lao = Noble, Shan = Mountain, Tai = Plateau, Thai = People
group or tribe, Laos = Seuar Lao (Lao race)
..............
for more info you can find at www.muanglao.com
hakpheng
pizone
legen...@yahoo.com (legends1228) wrote in message news:<cbf51980.03042...@posting.google.com>...
voraraj
Sanskrit origin. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Lao Tae Tae
derives from ancient Indian dialects namely Pali and Sanskrit.
vor...@hotmail.com (voraraj) wrote in message news:<4a317bca.03042...@posting.google.com>...
legends1228
words came from pali or sankrit but not the language.
Our writing system is based on pali and sankrit and so does thais and
Cambodians.
laot...@hotmail.com (Lao Tae Tae) wrote in message news:<cc6373f1.03042...@posting.google.com>...
T.Taylor
Lao Tae Tae
-Lao (or Laotian) belongs to the Tai language family which also
includes Thai, Shan, and languages spoken by smaller, related ethnic
groups in Laos, Thailand, Burma, southern China, and northern Vietnam.
The languages in the Tai family all share a common grammar and tone
structure.
-Lao is spoken not only in Laos but in Northeastern Thailand, an area
called "Isan", and the language itself is often called "Isan" (or
pha-sa Ee-san) in Thailand. The languages are basically the same but
have some differences between them which developed because of
historical differences between the Isan area and Laos.
-The Lao language has many regional varieties in both Laos and
Northeastern Thailand. This web site (and the phrasebook on the web
site) describe the language as it's spoken in Vientiane, the capital
of the Lao P.D.R. The main difference between these varieties is tonal
- different varieties will have some changes in tone from the
Vientiane Lao tone chart. There are also some differences in
vocabulary from region to region.
-Laos has many ethnic groups. Some of them belong to the Tai family
and speak languages related to Lao and Thai but many others speak
unrelated languages. The policy in the country is for these ethnic
groups to learn to speak and read Lao, and there is a program for Lao
as a Second Language in schools with students from non-Lao ethnic
groups.
-The Lao P.D.R. hasn't named one variety of Lao as the official
language of the country (as in Thailand where Central Thai is the
official language), however the Vientiane variety is becoming the
unofficial national language. This can be seen in the capital where
people from all over the country live. Many people there change their
pronunciation or at least recognize that they speak a "regional"
variety. The Vientiane variety is spoken on TV and radio and broadcast
over the whole country. Newspapers and books are published with
vocabulary as used in Vientiane, and if they contain "regional"
vocabulary or phrases it's obvious to the reader. Another indication
is that people from non-Lao or other Tai ethnic groups who study or
work at a high level often try to speak Lao with a Vientiane accent.
-Most of the basic words of Lao have only one syllable. Multi-syllable
words are generally higher level and used in religion, academics, and
government. They were taken mainly from Sanskrit, the classical
language of India, and are often the same as or similar to high-level
vocabulary in Thai.
-Lao is a concise language. Prefixes and combinations of basic words
are used to make more complex meanings. The sentence structure is also
quite simple and "grammar" refers mostly to word order.
-The Lao writing system evolved from Sanskrit. It was first taken by
the Khmers during the time of the Angkor Empire then adapted by the
Laotians, Northern Thais, and Central Thais into individual though
similar alphabets. These alphabets are composed of letters with their
own sounds, and are read from left to right like English.
-The Lao alphabet has been reformed several times over the past 50
years. The number of consonant letters was reduced so that words can
be read phonetically. This was done so that non-Lao ethnic groups
could read the language more easily. The result is that the Lao system
doesn't follow Sanskrit as closely as Thai in the spelling of
high-level (religious, academic) words, so the Sanskrit origin can't
be seen.
-Because Lao words are spelled phonetically there are more homonyms
than in Thai. An example is jan in the name of the capital Vientiane
(or Viang-jan). The word means "sandalwood" but when it's written in
Lao it has the same phonetic spelling as "moon". If you look at the
spelling of Vientiane in Thailand, though, it has the extra letters at
the end which show that it means "sandalwood" rather than "moon"
("sandalwood" has a thaw tha-han and naw-noo after the phonetic jan
while "moon" has a thaw tha-han and a raw reua). You can see the Thai
spelling of Vientiane on the signs in Nong Khai leading up to
Friendship Bridge. (Laotians also have a story about the origin of the
name Vieng-jan which concerns a man named Jan.)
Vocabulary differences (Lao in Laos/Lao in Thailand) - In general, Lao
in the Lao P.D.R. has been influenced by French while Lao in
Northeastern Thailand has been influenced by Thai and English. Some
major differences are as follows:
-Words borrowed from European languages have the French pronunciation
in Laos but the English pronunciation in Thailand. An example is
"wine" which is waeng in Laos and wai in Thailand. (Note that
nasalized French endings become "ng" in Laos.)
-Lao speakers in Thailand use Thai words for some common nouns rather
than the Lao word. Examples are "paper" (jia in Laos, gra-dat in
Thailand), "book" (peum in Laos, nang-seu in Thailand), and "bread"
(kao-jee in Laos and ka-nom pang in Thailand). Lao speakers in
Thailand may also use the Thai phrases for "hello" and "thank you".
-Words in Laos taken from Vietnamese and not used in Thailand are feuh
for "noodle soup" (called guay-tio in Thailand) and viak for "work".
("To work" is hayt-viak in Laos and hayt-ngan in Lao-speaking
Thailand.)
-Official words such as "province" and "district" follow the Thai
designation in Thailand. The systems for telling time are also
different in the two countries.
-Two common words are pronounced differently: the Mekong River is
called Mae-nam Kawng in Laos and Mae-nam Kong in Thailand, and the
word for the Laotian string-tying ceremony is ba-see in Laos and
bai-see in Thailand.
legen...@yahoo.com (legends1228) wrote in message news:<cbf51980.03042...@posting.google.com>...
pizone
i don't agree of most of this thai (siamese) source. it's too 'thai'
that anybody can see right aways.
lao language made up of solely monosyllable words, with a
sophisticated rules or grammar, while sanskrit and pali are
polysyllable languages like most european languages. therefore lao
language was not developed from sanskrit or pali. it's true that lao
language had some influences from pali (the thai from sanskrit), but
lao didn't definitely derive from these indian languages.
> -Lao (or Laotian) belongs to the Tai language family which also
> includes Thai, Shan, and languages spoken by smaller, related ethnic
> groups in Laos, Thailand, Burma, southern China, and northern Vietnam.
> The languages in the Tai family all share a common grammar and tone
> structure.
Man! What year the siamese became thai? thai language is a copy of lao
language, period.
> -Lao is spoken not only in Laos but in Northeastern Thailand, an area
> called "Isan", and the language itself is often called "Isan" (or
> pha-sa Ee-san) in Thailand. The languages are basically the same but
> have some differences between them which developed because of
> historical differences between the Isan area and Laos.
Lao language is spoken every where in the world where there are lao
people living.
> -The Lao language has many regional varieties in both Laos and
> Northeastern Thailand. This web site (and the phrasebook on the web
> site) describe the language as it's spoken in Vientiane, the capital
> of the Lao P.D.R. The main difference between these varieties is tonal
> - different varieties will have some changes in tone from the
> Vientiane Lao tone chart. There are also some differences in
> vocabulary from region to region.
there's only one lao language. there also are lots of ethnics
dialectics or spoken languages just like in most countries in the
world. for lao language, the variation of accents doesn't make it
another language. New York, Texas, California accents don't change
american english language.
> -Laos has many ethnic groups. Some of them belong to the Tai family
what this suppose to mean? the tai groups of people are lao.
> -The Lao P.D.R. hasn't named one variety of Lao as the official
> language of the country
what a stupid statement!
> -Most of the basic words of Lao have only one syllable.
yes,right!
> Multi-syllable
> words are generally higher level and used in religion, academics, and
> government. They were taken mainly from Sanskrit, the classical
> language of India, and are often the same as or similar to high-level
> vocabulary in Thai.
there's no one language higher or lower that the other.
> -The Lao writing system evolved from Sanskrit.
wrong! i think chinese language is also monosyllable language, the
same way as lao language, they might be closer to each other more than
sanskrit or pali.
> -The Lao alphabet has been reformed several times over the past 50
> years.
the stupid commu people headed by sahai phoumy vongvichith degraded
our lao language over the past 50 years more than 500 years or may be
5000 years of the existance of lao language.
> -Because Lao words are spelled phonetically there are more homonyms
> than in Thai. An example is jan in the name of the capital Vientiane
> (or Viang-jan). The word means "sandalwood" but when it's written in
> Lao it has the same phonetic spelling as "moon". If you look at the
> spelling of Vientiane in Thailand, though, it has the extra letters at
> the end which show that it means "sandalwood" rather than "moon"
> ("sandalwood" has a thaw tha-han and naw-noo after the phonetic jan
> while "moon" has a thaw tha-han and a raw reua). You can see the Thai
> spelling of Vientiane on the signs in Nong Khai leading up to
> Friendship Bridge. (Laotians also have a story about the origin of the
> name Vieng-jan which concerns a man named Jan.)
who care what the thai write vientiane in their language. it's the
same reason that, in lao language, we don't write a "Yor" at the end
of the word "thai" like the thai do. i don't know what the hak
'sandalwood' means and where this idea come from? lao used to write
'Thor Nor' at the end of vientian, they stand for 'thaanee' (pali
word) which means muang in lao or city in english.
vientiane means the "Moon City", the same way as Haad DonJan, whic was
the center of the former lao capital before the siamese ruined and
raped Lao Lanexang. the siam took haft of vientiane to become today
Nongkhai. before the siamese destroy Laos, vientian is on both sides
of the Mekong river, which is composed of today vientiane and today
Nongkhay (thailand).
hakpheng
pizone
KyleK
I thought the source about the Lao language was pretty informative
except the part regarding vocabulary differences between Lao and
"Standard Thai." The pronunciation of the word "wine" by Thai and Lao
speakers as an example is not relavent in the source because if both
Thai and Lao speakers have the nasalized "ng" final consonant then
there shouldn't be a difference in pronunciation. Perhaps, the source
needs to elaborate on this phonemena.
The Lao language is considered to be monosyllabic (mono=one syllable),
but "borrowed" extensively polysyllable words from Sanskrit and Pali
in a religious context. The Lao language itself did not descend from
Sanskrit or Pali, however, the Lao writing system derived from the
Indic Brahmi
(a Sanskrit writting system developed in Northern India).
Lao, Shan, Thai, PhuThai are varieties(dialects) of ONE language.
Yes, the Lao language is spoken in many parts of the world, but like
all languages, it is changing through the course of migration and
contacts. There are many groups of Tai speakers in Laos (e.g. White,
Red, Black Tais), for the sake of respect and consideration we
shouldn't say that they speak "Lao," instead they speak "Phutai" etc.
I don't think the Lao speakers wouldn't like it too if the "Standard
Thai" speakers say that we speak "Thai", just a matter of respect to
not impose on others.
Yes, I agree that the Lao PDR hasn't named one dialect of Lao as the
officially language of the country. In order for one variety to be
considered standard it has to be written down in school text books,
only one dialect should be spoken in radios and televisions, forbid
people to only speak in one dialect, etc. The government of Lao does
not have the power to do that.
thongvan
Vientiane means Muang Mai Jan or Sandalwood City.
This was the correct meaning that our ancestors wanted it to be meant.
Thanx.
thongvan.
Lao Tae Tae
Any reference or source to support your claim? I have always assumed
that Vientiane is the "City of the Moon".
LTT
nonsi...@aol.com (thongvan) wrote in message news:<f713ac35.03042...@posting.google.com>...
casalao
> that Vientiane is the "City of the Moon".
pizone
support what you said here? did you ever see Mak Jan? Mak Jan smell
very strong and smell good (Hom). the shape of Mak Jan is clean jellow
round, which can be compare to the full moon that why it has the name
Mak Jan.
vientiane, the "moon city" is named after its physical shape, the haft
moon (Deuan Haim) shape of the former vientiane city, capital of lao
lanexang, which standed on both sides of the Mekong river and at the
big turn (about 90 degree) of the Mekong river that form the most
beautiful haft moon shape Haad-Don-Jan and Don-Jan, the heart and
center of our former capital vientiane,as seen by looking from above
or looking at the map. that's how our ancestors named our capital as
the most beautiful name Vien-Jan, the "Moon City". in fact, most
ancient capitals and big cities are situated at both sides of a big
river, like Paris, London, Born, Kroung Theab (today Bangkok) etc...
the river provides the mean of transportation, communication, trading,
agricultures, sources of foods, etc. rivers were the center of ancient
civilization, that why most big cities and capitals were created on
both sides of the river.
how smart our ancestors named our capital, vien-jan. this's what i
learned, heard and read and believe about the name of our capital
vientiane. of course there are some other version of it, just don't
listen too much to the former siamese or today thai who burned down
and completely destroy our Vien-Jan city.
hakpheng
pizone
nonsi...@aol.com (thongvan) wrote in message news:<f713ac35.03042...@posting.google.com>...
pumakone
> Sanskrit origin. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
To Voraaj
So do I!
Pizone raised an interesting aspect where the script were invented >>>
but how was it look like.
It is interesting also, that few present scripts resemble a Pali or a
Sanskrit.
>>> a "thor" as in Thao X. perhaps?
haakpheng
Sri Sattanakarahut
This is not true. Why would you name the city after Sandalwood when there
was/is hardly any Sandalwood in the city. The city must have been full of
Sandalwood or at least have a historical tied to it in other for the city
to be named after. The only account I have came across so far in regards
to woods and or used to be lots of woods in the city is "Thonh Phai Nam"
or bamboo trees, which the city was once named after. If my brain is not
too rusty I believe it was Muen Chan whom the city [Viang Chan] is named
after. Muen Chan, I believe, was an army general who serves under Chao Fa
Ngum.
At any rates, even though Viang Chan is named after a man named "Chan" the
fact of the matter is "Chan" in Lao means "moon," thus the meaning of
Viang Chan is "city of the moon."
What about Hartt Don Chan and Don Chan? Are they named after Mai Chan,
too? And...,
Who was it, said, Viang Chan is actually a short name for Viang
ChanthaburySrisattanakanabut?
Btw, Sandalwood or Mai Chan in Lao means "moon tree." So it don't matter
how you look at it, the city is still a moon city where you can find lots
of beautifully moon-faced girls. :-)
Sri
Sothea
Lengend,
I'm Khmer or Cambodian. Thank you for crediting on behalf of our
Khmer people regarding our history regions. It's true, Khmer existed
and dominated the whole southeast regions, before, Siamese and Loas
exist. The religion and script came from sancrite or Indian, but
Khmer was the only first one that created their custom, writing
scripts, afterward, Thai, originally from China, and Loas, had copied
and adopted our custom, and writing script. Today, about 10 millions
our Khmer pepople are living in Thailand, about 10 million more of
Khmer living Southern Vietnam, and about Half a millions are livins
southern Loas. Also, our khmer people origin living in Burma, know as
Shan etc had similar dialogue we somewhat understand. History show it
all, in Text books in the Library. Research welcome.
Thank you,
Sothea
drsouk
lao script come from Birmans by the Shans (thay nhay); it also come from
khmer script.
"Sothea" <sothe...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
980cd11f.03042...@posting.google.com...
casalao
konla...@aol.com
khmers in Thailand, there is only like 900,000 and most live in Esan
tai(southern Esan), most in Surin and Buriram. There is though,
millions of Laotians who are of Lao blood and origin just like the
Khmers in Surin are of Khmer blood and origin. These Lao live in the
central provinces and the northern provinces of Esan. Also the Lao
constitutes a majority of Lanna.(northern Thailand) I dont know if you
are exaggerating or what not but there is no half a million khmers in
Laos. That number is not even close. There is not really that much
khmer at all in Laos. And about Lan Xang, our capital was Luang
Prabang and there was not really any Khmer influences until Chao Fa
Ngum who was exiled in Cambodia comes back to regain his throne. He
adopts Buddhism,scripts, and some traditions. Then he led a campaign
to gain land that was inhabited by tais in the central mekong valley
that was ruled by the Khmers and Chams. That was the only time the
Khmers really influenced Laos. In conclusion Khmer Empire did not
even touch the Northern Laos, (the center of Lao culture) and only
touch central and southern Laos.
Sothea
There are many, many Khmer people in Thailand that was influence by
the Thais and they hate our Khmer blood, so they dont considered that
they are khmer people, but Thais. They don't speak Khmer nor
Understand Khmer Language, but Thais. They don't want to mix blood
with us anymore. Same as I live in Laos, having Laos's friends
etc...I happen to like Laos better than Khmer, so I would have to
abolish my Khmer blood to mix in with Loas. I may be exaggerate
little bit about khmer figures, because I'm told per friends. but
900,000? which source was that? Have you been to Southern Loas near
Cambodian border? Their maybe no Khmer people in Northern or VienChan
city?
Regards,
Sothea
konla...@aol.com wrote in message news:<7c98d366.03042...@posting.google.com>...
lorklin
It seem like everybody is trying to point out what they learn or know.
There is nothing wrong with that and this is why we are here trying to
understand and learning from one another. I'm not saying that you all
wrong. By saying this I could be wrong too. So, Check this out.
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lao.htm
Love you all.
J.F.K.
a beautiful writing system.
konla...@aol.com
Like you said about Thailand and the Thais. I never heard of the
khmer surin hating Khmer. the Khmers in Thailand are Thai, they are
just of khmer origin. I never heard of them forgetting there language
but I heard of claiming thai. Like the laotians of esan, they are
considered thai but they know how to speak laotian. And about Laos,
my dad side is from the south and we have never seen a khmer. The
closest thing to a khmer are the Lao-theung( mon-khmer speakers)
thanks for reading