The Generals.
BABYFALL
There is an article today on AP about the Thai active military. It stated there
are currently 1,400 generals in Thailand's Armed Forces. It seems to me there
are a lot generals within the Thai Armed Forces. Does it neccessary to have
that many Army Generals (Nai Phonh) to run the armed forces in a peace time?
I would like to know if anyone of you out there could tell how many generals
were there in RLG armed Forces up to 1975?. And currently how many generals
are there in the LPDR armed Forces?
Just curious to know if anyone can provide the information.
BF.
VIZETH
Hello there,
With my reply to your question, there were many generals in the RLG up to
1975 but there were only 3 distinguised ones. Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this general
was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
most of Captain Kong Le's Pathet Lao forces. 2nd, there came Major General Vang
Pao, the first Hmong tribesmen general in the RLG, commanded the 2nd military
region in Laos.Vang Pao was credited for his many tactics for the well being
of his people, the Hmong, and the Lao King-Savang Vatthana during the late 60's
and early 70's. With this General came the 3rd, Thonglit Chekboukboun,
commander of the 6th military region. Thonglit was highly skilled in guerrila
combat, compared to his predecessors. He and Vang Pao would later flee Laos,
Thonglit residing in France and Vang Pao in CA(USA), due to the communist
takeover. Hope I helped some!!!!!!
-------------Viseth Lor, Reading, PA
CHOWIGAN
>From: viz...@aol.com (VIZETH)
> With my reply to your question, there were many generals in the RLG up to
1975 but there were only 3 distinguised ones. Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this general
was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
most of Captain Kong Le's Pathet Lao forces.
>
Great!!! I have been waiting to see someone who would know something about
Phoumi, not Phouma. Where was he born?
Chowigan
BABYFALL
>Hello there,
>
> With my reply to your question, there were many generals in the RLG up
>to
>1975 but there were only 3 distinguised ones. Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this
>general
>was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
>Vang
>Pao, the first Hmong tribesmen general in the RLG, commanded the 2nd military
>region in Laos.Vang Pao was credited for his many tactics for the well being
>of his people, the Hmong, and the Lao King-Savang Vatthana during the late
>60's
>and early 70's. With this General came the 3rd, Thonglit Chekboukboun,
>commander of the 6th military region. Thonglit was highly skilled in guerrila
>combat, compared to his predecessors. He and Vang Pao would later flee Laos,
>Thonglit residing in France and Vang Pao in CA(USA), due to the communist
>takeover. Hope I helped some!!!!!!
> -------------Viseth Lor, Reading, PA
>
Hi Viseth Lor,
Thank you very much for your response. Those generals you had referred to are
those were well known to the public and I have no problem to memorize their
names.
Now, I am trying my best to list those I have hurd about their name including
those you've already posted above. I do not want anything of their background
more than their names. If anyone is willing to add those whom I do not know,
feel free to do so and I hope I will learn from all of you. They are Vira
Boulout Lao and they are all in the Lao History book. Like them or not, they
were the Lao Generals anyway and they should be remembered forever.
Here they are:
1. General Phoumy Nosavanh
2. General Thonglith Chokbengboune
3. General Koupasith Aphay
4. General Ouane Rathikoune
5. General Houmphanh Sayasith
6. General Vang Pao
7. General Tiao Say (his last name ?) Commander 1st region (LP).
8. General Kong Le (his last name ?)
9. General Thao Ma (his last name ?)
10. General Amkha (his last name ?)
12. General Sing (his last name ?)
13. General Bounleuth Sanichanh
14. General Bounpone Makthephala (??)
15. General Soukchay (his last name ?)
16. General Syho (his last name ?)
17. General Oudone Sananikone
18. General Khamhou (last name ?)
I think there are still more, but I don't remember their names. The LPDR, I had
heard only General Douane (last name??) and General Cheng....(lat name??).
BF.
Soumaly1
Viseth Lor wrote............
>Hello there,
>
> With my reply to your question, there were many generals in the RLG up
>to
>1975 but there were only 3 distinguised ones. Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this
>general
>was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
>most of Captain Kong Le's Pathet Lao forces. 2nd, there came Major General
>Vang
>Pao, the first Hmong tribesmen general in the RLG, commanded the 2nd military
>region in Laos.Vang Pao was credited for his many tactics for the well being
>of his people, the Hmong, and the Lao King-Savang Vatthana during the late
>60's
>and early 70's. With this General came the 3rd, Thonglit Chekboukboun,
>commander of the 6th military region. Thonglit was highly skilled in guerrila
>combat, compared to his predecessors. He and Vang Pao would later flee Laos,
>Thonglit residing in France and Vang Pao in CA(USA), due to the communist
>takeover. Hope I helped some!!!!!!
> -------------Viseth Lor, Reading, PA
>
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Viseth,
I hope you don't mind if I correct your error, so all SCL readers can learn
together. During the RLG, Royla Lao Military devided into 5 region (there was
no such thing as 6th Region).
Region 1. was in Louangprabang
Region 2. was in Samthong & Longcheng
Region 3 Savannakhet
Region 4 Pakse
Region 5 Vientiane
Of all the 3 Generals that you name, you name them correctly, but there is one
Brig. Gen. that you should know. That is Buck Brig. Gen. Tham Sayasithsena
who worked to sabotage the RLG Army in all his military carreer while serving
in the RLG Army, and he is the only RLG General that did not have to go to
seminar camp and still live freely in Vientiane. In fact, he even came and met
his relatives in Virginia to ask his relatives to continue the propaganda of
the LPDR. You can do the research of what I said by yourself and look at the
background and activities of the "SAYASITHSENA" in Virgiania!! these
Sayasithsenas are just LPDR ass licker!!
Daopakay
>From: viz...@aol.com (VIZETH)
>Date: Thu, Mar 19, 1998 21:03 EST
> Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this general
>was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
>most of Captain Kong Le's Pathet Lao forces. 2
Sabaidee
Captain Kongle was not Pathed Lao forces. He was incharged of 2nd Battalion
and he was made Coup D'etat on August 9,1960 to clean up a corruption. I'm
wonder Why do you think that Capt. Kongle is Pathed Lao forces? Please give me
a reason and details.
Hak Phaeng
Daopakay
Chep
Sabaidee everyone,
VIZETH wrote:
>
> Hello there,
>
> With my reply to your question, there were many generals in the RLG up to
> 1975 but there were only 3 distinguised ones. Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this general
> was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
> most of Captain Kong Le's Pathet Lao forces.
Phoumi lost the coup and escaped to Thailand. Before leaving Laos, he
took almost all people's money from the Lao treasury with him. To
replace the stolen money, the Lao civil servants as well as my
grandfather must have their salary cut and I forgot exactly how long it
took to replace it.
2nd, there came Major General Vang
> Pao, the first Hmong tribesmen general in the RLG, commanded the 2nd military
> region in Laos.Vang Pao was credited for his many tactics for the well being
> of his people, the Hmong, and the Lao King-Savang Vatthana during the late 60's
> and early 70's.
Need I say more about this Laos' national thug and a crook?
With this General came the 3rd, Thonglit Chekboukboun,
> commander of the 6th military region. Thonglit was highly skilled in guerrila
> combat, compared to his predecessors. He and Vang Pao would later flee Laos,
> Thonglit residing in France and Vang Pao in CA(USA), due to the communist
> takeover. Hope I helped some!!!!!!
The last name is Chokbengboune (I think).
What about Kupasith Aphai? He too was influencial during the 70's.
Arunkhone
AKM 74
On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 22:47 EST, baby...@aol.com (BABYFALL), wrote:
>Here they are:
>
>1. General Phoumy Nosavanh
>2. General Thonglith Chokbengboune
>3. General Koupasith Aphay
>4. General Ouane Rathikoune
>5. General Houmphanh Sayasith
>6. General Vang Pao
>7. General Tiao Say (his last name ?) Commander 1st region (LP).
>8. General Kong Le (his last name ?)
>9. General Thao Ma (his last name ?)
>10. General Amkha (his last name ?)
>12. General Sing (his last name ?)
>13. General Bounleuth Sanichanh
>14. General Bounpone Makthephala (??)
>15. General Soukchay (his last name ?)
>16. General Syho (his last name ?)
>17. General Oudone Sananikone
>18. General Khamhou (last name ?)
Gen. Sounethone Pathammavong (spelling ??)
Gen. Ei tharm (spelling ??) Currently resides in Australia.
Gen. Boua Thong (RLAF) (spelling ??)
>I think there are still more, but I don't remember their names. The LPDR, I
>had
>heard only General Douane (last name??) and General Cheng....(lat name??).
Gen. Khamtay Siphandon
Gen. Sisavath Keobounphan (spelling ??)
Gen. Asang Laoly
Gen. Cheng Sayavong(spelling ??)
Hey, where's Soumaly? Soumaly's the man you wanna ask, BF!
>BF.
AKM 74
On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 23:33 EST, daop...@aol.com (Daopakay), wrote:
>Captain Kongle was not Pathed Lao forces. He was incharged of 2nd Battalion
>and he was made Coup D'etat on August 9,1960 to clean up a corruption. I'm
>wonder Why do you think that Capt. Kongle is Pathed Lao forces? Please give
>me
>a reason and details.
The Neutralist which led by Gen. Kong Le was forced to allied themselve with
the Pathet Lao force in the Plain of Jars when they were driven out of
Vientiane. While they were in Xieng Khoung the Neutralist forces was splitted
in two. Those who support Col. Douane was known as Patriotic Neutralist.
>Hak Phaeng
>Daopakay
Soumaly1
Chairman of the Joint Chief of staff:
Lt. Gen. Bounpone Markthepharack (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Deputy Chairman of the Joint Chief of staff:
Lt. Gen Koupasith Abphay (died in France few months ago)
Lt. Gen. Phasouk Sor Rasaphak (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Region 1:
Brig. Gen. Chao Sayavong (Living in France)
Region 2:
Maj. Gen. Vang Pao (Living in Fresno, Ca)
Region 3:
Maj. Gen. Thao Lee (Died in reeducation Camp)
Region 4:
Maj. Gen. Southchay Vongsavanh (Living in Virginia, and currently working for
the Pentagon)
Region 5:
Maj. Gen. Thonglith Chokbengboun (Living in France)
Royal Lao Air Force Chief of Staff:
Brig. Gen. Bouathong Phothivongsa (living in Texas)
Commannder of the Vientiane Metropolitan Area:
Brig. Gen. Athsaphangthong Pathammavong (Died in reeducation Camp)
Intelligent Chief of Royal Lao Army:
Brig. Gen. Aetam Singvongsa (living in Australia)
Information Chief of Royal Lao Army (Attach to the Prime Minister Office):
Brig. Gen. Khamhou Bouthsalath (living in Texas)
Chief of Special military operation:
Brig. Gen. Nouphet Daoheaung (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Chief of Military Spokeman:
Brig, General Thongphanh Kanoksy (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Here is other General that attach to different department on the Royal Lao
Ministry of Defense:
Brig. Gen. Chao Sinh Saysana (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Brig. Gen Bounma Vongphachanh (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Brig. Gen Tham Sayasithsena (Living in Vientiane, and working as spy for
LPDR)
Brig. Gen Pheuy Mixayphonh
Brig. Gen Bounchanh SavathpPhayphane
Brig. Gen Khamlom (living in Modesto, CA)
Brig. Gen Khamsy sananikone (Living in France)
Brig. Gen Bounthong Venevongsoth (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Brig. Gen Koth Venevongsoth (survive Reeducaton camp and currently living in
Laos)
Brig. Gen Oudone Sananikone (Died in Virginia)
Brig. Gen La Pathammavong (Living in Portland, Oregon)
Brig. Gen Amkha Soukhavong (living in France)
Brig. Gen Silack Pathammavong (living in San Diego, CA)
Brig. Gen Houmphanh Norasing
Brig. Gen Khamkhong Phouthavong (living in France)
Brig. Gen Khong Vongnarath (Living in France)
Out of the Military prior to the Communist took over in 1975:
Lt. Gen. Ouane Rathikoune (Died in Reeducation Camp)
Brig. Gen Sing Rattanasamay
Maj. Gen. Phoumi Norsavanh (Died in Thailand)
Brig. Gen Sounthone Pathammavong
Brig. Gen Bounleuth Sanichanh
Brig. Gen Sing Ratanasamay
Brig. Gen. Thao Ma (killed in Vientiane by Military Police Capt. Somsy and
ordered by Lt. Gen. Koupasith Abphay )
Neutralist Military Chief:
Brig. Gen. Chao Seng Sirivanh
Brig. Gen. Chao Vannaseng
Brig. Gen. Kong Le (Currentlly Living in America, last know address was at
Porteville, CA)
P.s. the one that I leave blank after their names, I don't know what are their
current situation.
BABYFALL
To Soumaly1,
Thank you very much from the bottom of my heart that you help to supply this
information. I have learned a lot from you. However, I hope this is not the
last and will not be the least either.
Hak Pheng,
BF.
Daopakay
>From: ak...@aol.com (AKM 74)
>Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 16:12 EST
>The Neutralist which led by Gen. Kong Le was forced to allied themselve with
>the Pathet Lao force in the Plain of Jars when they were driven out of
>Vientiane. While they were in Xieng Khoung the Neutralist forces was
>splitted
>in two. Those who support Col. Douane was known as Patriotic Neutralist.
>
Sabaidee
After the Coup D'etat , The Neutral forces declared to be Neutral Nation and
pressure from the right wing who was bribed from CIA took controll in Vientiane
(I don't want to mention the names). Mor eand more pressure from those actions
b/c Neutral did not want to see a bloodshade of Laotians. The main point is
Neutrality of Laos blocked the fighting with between NV and the U.S which could
cause more casualties on the field in our land of Laos. But both sides still
underground operation over our land and high official in Vientiane alomost all
bribed with a green bill ( the U.S dollars) and more and more pressure to the
Neutral forces included Gen. Phoummy forces which fighting in the city in
Vientiane with Neutral force. The neutral forces could not stay longer in
Vientiane b/c after Souvanna Phoumma became a prime Minister because Capt.
Kongle assigned him to be due to a promise to Capt. Kongle to control
corruption but since he became prime Minister he did more worse than other.
Capt. Kongle made an annoucement which he would take Luangprabang but he just
made a trick to let the Home town of his father in law (Gen. Ouane Rathikhoun)
to prepare then when he was Salaphoukhoune his force went straight to
Xiengkhouang to liberate for a Neutral base. Since Gen. Vang Pao was not
happy with the Neutrality of Laos b/c used to block to goal of CIA operation
over Laos. The first and heavy fight in Xiengkhouang is Ban Pang Pang with
Vang Pao forces before neutral forces reach plain of Jars.
When neutral slpited. Col. Douane Sounnarath ( Home town of ban Hom,
Vientiane) got bribed from NV and order to shoot an American C-130 down then
broke from Neutral forces fot into NV. During the fighting with Gen. Vang Pao
forces; Neutral force had to fight with NV at the same time. But I saw someone
claimed that Gen. Kongle was Pathed Laos Forces. that's not right and it's not
true. Look at the operation of Muang Fan. Neutral forces had to fight with NV
and cause lot of lives included NV and Neutral forces. Since Laos declared
official Neutral country in July 23, 1962 in Geneva which 14 counties sign that
treaty inclued the U.S but why did Gen. Vang Pao forces backed by up CIA still
fight with Neutral forces. I don't mean that all neutral forces were all right
but lot of them still got bribe from the 5th region. Gen. Koupasith and Gen.
Vang Pao who were not appreciated with the treaty. So until 1966 the right
wing deported Gen. Kongle out off the country and never be back since. NV
tried to use Col. Douane to be a nice curtain cover their face of NV and
Souphanouvong came to the treaty 1973 Neutrality of Laos as the third time.
(As the first in 1954, 2nd in 1962 and the 3rd in 1973). Look at the goal of
Laotians wanted to be neutral country but never been as such. The right and
the left always claimed the owner of the Neutrality of Laos. Can I ask all of
our Laotian. Where is the Neutrality of Laos which we are (Laotians)preserved
for a long time? Could we face the killing field as Cambodia again? MR.
Communist you should stop a revenge war. And Mr. right wing should stop your
revenge, those can cause our people lives. Nothing will be gain except the
casualties of Laotians. Neutrality and be friendly with our Laotians is better
than killing each other. We (Laotian) should focus on the Nation enemies
issues as Vietnamese and Sayamese is better than Laotians killing Laotians.
What do you think?
Hak Phaeng
Daopakay
Soumaly1
You are welcome. By the way, upon inpescting my list I found out that I missed
one Brigadier General.
Brig, Gen. Sang - he dissappeared and presumed death and killed by the Siam.
He dissappeared from Nong Khai Refugee Camp in 1980, the night that Nong Khai
Refugee Camp was set on Fire. Everyone, in the camp presumed that he was killed
by the Thai Authorities. At that time, he was the Chief of Nong Khai Refugee
camp as well.
CHOWIGAN
>From: soum...@aol.com (Soumaly1)
>You are welcome. By the way, upon inpescting my list I found out that I missed
one Brigadier General. Brig, Gen. Sang - he dissappeared and presumed death
and killed by the Siam.
>He dissappeared from Nong Khai Refugee Camp in 1980, the night that Nong Khai
Refugee Camp was set on Fire. Everyone, in the camp presumed that he was killed
by the Thai Authorities. At that time, he was the Chief of Nong Khai Refugee
camp as well.
>
No doubt!!! The Siam always loves to kill Lao people.
drbobb...@hotmail.com
In article <3512B2...@iastate.edu>,
Laotions during the war wanted neutrality Like Priminister Phouma Savana
and majority of the Laotion during the Vietnam War, Secret War of Laos. Not
many Laotion join General Vang Pao in an effort to stop the HoChi Ming Trial
in miliatary region Two in northern Laos. The bulk of that war rested on The
HMONG people. Don't disrespect Gen.Vang Pao for if it was not for him no
Laotion woul be welcomed into the USA nor would you be. Be Greatful, for the
only people recongized in US CONGRESS during the SECRET WAR OF LAOS are the
Hmongs and NOT LAOTION. Be most graceous to Gen. Vang Pao and his HMONG
fellows for you are not in communist LAOS today . Don't mock our leader ever.
It is okay to mock your own but never others.
Have a Nice Day.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
drbobb...@hotmail.com
NAntivirus
I just can't shut up with this message. No one is trying to mock General Vang
Pao. I appreciate for what he had done as a great leader. however, In my
point of view, Vang Pao can't gain any respect from me. He does not have
the right
personality to be a classic exmple leader for our youth to
follow his footsteps. Married with 32 wives at the same time
, it is an extraordinary case. If ones do for further resarch, the
pain was left to many Laotian families by his dirty mind.
I like to go on from here. If I were Vang Pao, I will fight harder. why? you
better know
CHOWIGAN
>From: drbobb...@hotmail.com
>Not many Laotion join General Vang Pao in an effort to stop the HoChi Ming
Trial in miliatary region Two in northern Laos.
>
Sorry for the interruption, since there are starting to be more Hmong with a
disproportionally bigger head than for their body. I might want to say a few
things there.
It shows that not many Laotian are stupid enough for follow Van Pao. I suppose
you must be talking about Hmong because the word Laotian apply to Hmong who
came from Laos too.
>The bulk of that war rested on The HMONG people.
Now, you people really have a bigger head than your body could support. You are
talking like the Hmong could fend off the Vietnamese invasion into Laos. The
fate and the agony of Laos and the Lao people were not decided by your Hmong
people.
How long have you people been fighting against the LPDR in Laos? What are your
status? SITUATION REPORT.
You Hmong people were not fighting for Laos, you people were fighting for the
Pathet Hmong and for your own people the Hmong, so don't come into SCL and brag
about it. You could go to SCHmong and brag about how great your people are. You
little Siamese.
>Don't disrespect Gen.Vang Pao for if it was not for him no
>Laotion woul be welcomed into the USA nor would you be.
I don't mean to disrespect about Gen. Van Pao. But you and your people just
make sure that you get it in your head that refugee people who came from Laos
and was able to be here, the situation was not due to your Back Van Pao
therefore nothing to be grateful about your Back Van Pao. You should be
grateful to the Lao people to let him become a General and accept him among the
Lao people. Just don't come in here in SCL and brag about how great is your
Back Van Pao and your Hmong people, you little Siamese.
>Be Greatful, for the only people recongized in US CONGRESS during the SECRET
WAR OF LAOS are the Hmongs and NOT LAOTION.
>
You and your Hmong or Meo people could kiss my ASS. You ASSHOLE.
> Be most graceous to Gen. Vang Pao and his HMONG
>fellows for you are not in communist LAOS today .
Again, you could kiss my ASS, you little Siamese.
> Don't mock our leader ever.
Just don't brag about it, Again, you and your Meo people could kiss my ASS.
>It is okay to mock your own but never others.
Yes, you got that right. And also just don't brag about your own either.
Chowigan <Ai Lao>
P.S.: How is the welfare status for your Meo people? Are the congree willing to
recognize your Meo people of their contribution in the Vietnam War.
drbobb...@hotmail.com
RE: Mr Chowigan: Welcome to the internet where all the fact can be
FOUND for Laotion and Hmong. The TRUTH Hurts More Than Any PROFANITY that
anyone could ever ditch. Hmong people are recognized for their valor and
bravery in The Secret War of Laos. That is written on website "US
Government about Hmong People" on record 103rd and 104th District
Congressional Records for ALL to SEE (Americans, Mexican, French, British,
Japan, Thais, Laos, Australian, Canadians, african....for all the world to
know of The Hmong's GOOD NAME . . We Hmong already GOT THE GOOD Name so your
opnion DON"T COUNT . No further comment........................ Have a nice
main...@students.wisc.edu
Chowigan? Is this the Chowigan I have come to know? Or is this a
Chowigan-wanna-be, an imposter? Would the real Chowigan who emailed me
personally a couple of times and have openly acknowledge that minority issues
has to be worked out in Laos, please stand up and respond? This does not sound
like the real Chowigan. The real Chowigan is mature and a bit more complex in
articulation and thinking. This "Chowigan" sounds like a 12 yr.-old kid
who had just hit puberty and hasn't gotten his hormones under control yet.
Mai Na
In article <199803240131...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> little Siamese....
> Chowigan <Ai Lao>
>
> P.S.: How is the welfare status for your Meo people? Are the congree willing
to
> recognize your Meo people of their contribution in the Vietnam War.
>
CHOWIGAN
>From: drbobb...@hotmail.com
> Welcome to the internet where all the fact can be FOUND for Laotion and
Hmong. The TRUTH Hurts More Than Any PROFANITY that anyone could ever ditch.
Hmong people are recognized for their valor and bravery in The Secret War of
Laos. That is written on website "US Government about Hmong People" on record
103rd and 104th District Congressional Records for ALL to SEE (Americans,
Mexican, French, British, Japan, Thais, Laos, Australian, Canadians,
african....for all the world to know of The Hmong's GOOD NAME . . We Hmong
already GOT THE GOOD Name so your opnion DON"T COUNT . No further
comment........................
>
Well, if you have no further comment why dont' you shut up.
You have obviously miss my point. I have never denied and dimish the
contribution of the Hmong people or any other ethnic members in Laos.
It is good for the Hmong people who have fought in Laos backed by the CIA to
have their Pathet Hmong within Laos being recognize for their contribution.
Just let me know when you have more news.
Chowigan
Lao Houn Mai
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:22:45 -0600, drbobb...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Laotions during the war wanted neutrality Like Priminister Phouma Savana
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Precisely! Neutrality was in the best interests of Laos. The war was a war between North and South
Vietnam. Of all the parties to the war (North Vietnamese, Pathet Lao, Neutralist, Rightist, USA and
French) the neutralists were the ONLY party who were fighting for the interests of the Lao people.
They were also the ONLY party who did not exploit the war to provide opportunities to trade in
narcotics.
>and majority of the Laotion during the Vietnam War, Secret War of Laos. Not
>many Laotion join General Vang Pao in an effort to stop the HoChi Ming Trial
>in miliatary region Two in northern Laos. The bulk of that war rested on The
>HMONG people. Don't disrespect Gen.Vang Pao for if it was not for him no
>Laotion woul be welcomed into the USA nor would you be. Be Greatful, for the
>only people recongized in US CONGRESS during the SECRET WAR OF LAOS are the
>Hmongs and NOT LAOTION. Be most graceous to Gen. Vang Pao and his HMONG
>fellows for you are not in communist LAOS today . Don't mock our leader ever.
>It is okay to mock your own but never others.
As you point out yourself, the Lao people did not want war they wanted neutrality. So when you use
this particular point to try to praise Vang Pao you are not presenting a very good argument! Can you
present a better argument than this against the claims that Vang Pao exploited the lives of his men
for his own power and financial gain? He became very rich and very powerful as a result of his role
in the CIA Secret War (especially from his trade in narcotics in conjunction with his CIA partners),
and after 1975 continued to become even more rich by exploiting the Hmong in the US who blindly put
their faith in him. I wonder, is there any connection between this latter fact and the lack of
progress of the resistance groups in 23 years?
It is true that the Hmong groups of Special Guerrilla Units played an important military role in the
conflict. However in reality they were simply pawns in a cynical game between the US and the North
Vietnamese. Throughout the war they went back and forth across Laos with the seasons (advance in the
wet season and retreat in the dry season) and diverted some attention of the North Vietnamese from
South Vietnam but had little practical effect on the outcome of the war in Laos. They were just
exploited by the CIA, on the promise of a Pathet Hmong if they did what the CIA wanted (did the CIA
keep its promises to look after them?). The only reason Laos was drawn deeper and deeper into the
war was because the US stoked the fire of corruption and manipulated politics to destroy the efforts
of Souvanna Phouma to develop understanding amongst the peoples of Laos and seek peace.
The conflict in Laos was not about communism - it started as a struggle against French colonial
interference, and the US turned it into a struggle against US corruption and US anti-democratic
political manipulation (which pushed the rural Lao into the propaganda of the North Vietnamese
communists). Finally the North Vietnamese had the last laugh and took advantage of the US's
stupidity and the rural Lao gullibility to take complete control of Laos by trickery and lies.
Lao Houn Mai
>Viseth Lor wrote............
>
>>Hello there,
>>
>> With my reply to your question, there were many generals in the RLG up to
>>1975 but there were only 3 distinguised ones. Ist-Phoumi Nosavan, this general
>>was the dominant commander during the early 60's and was the one who tackled
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Pao, the first Hmong tribesmen general in the RLG, commanded the 2nd military
>>region in Laos.Vang Pao was credited for his many tactics for the well being
>>of his people, the Hmong, and the Lao King-Savang Vatthana during the late 60's
>>commander of the 6th military region. Thonglit was highly skilled in guerrila
>>combat, compared to his predecessors. He and Vang Pao would later flee Laos,
>>Thonglit residing in France and Vang Pao in CA(USA), due to the communist
>>takeover. Hope I helped some!!!!!!
Phoumi Nosavan was "distinguished" for his military assault on Souvannaphouma's legitimate
neutralist government in Vientiane using heavy artillery supplied by the CIA and with US military
advisors and support. The US was allegedly supposed to be supporting the Royal Lao Government in
Vientiane, but instead it sent Phoumi Nosavan to destroy it (this speaks volumes for US so-called
"democracy"). As a result of this US-sponsored terrorism, Prince Souvannaphouma was forced to flee
to Cambodia and Captain Kongle retreated to Xieng Khuang at the end of 1960. Until this time Captain
Kongle led the only unit of the Royal Lao Army that was truly effective in fighting the North
Vietnamese Army. Because he was attacked and forced out of Vientiane by the US (through Siamese
puppet Phoumi Nosavan) he was temporarily forced to combine forces with the Pathet Lao forces.
No action in the entire Indochinese conflict was more critical in forcing Laos into the hands of the
Vietnamese than the US support of Phoumi Nosavan's act of piracy against the legitimate Vientiane
government which was officially the ally of the US. Without this act the Vietnamese would never have
been able to conquor Laos. From 1961 until 1977 the North Vietnamese forces were able to
progressively consolidate their power and influence and there was nothing that either the Americans
or the Neutralists could do to reverse the damage. By 1975 the North Vietnamese had won completely
over the US and Neutralists, and by 1977 they had completed the trap they had set to take total
control from the Pathet Lao.
CHOWIGAN
>From: main...@students.wisc.edu
>Chowigan? Is this the Chowigan I have come to know? Or is this a
Chowigan-wanna-be, an imposter? Would the real Chowigan who emailed me
personally a couple of times and have openly acknowledge that minority issues
has to be worked out in Laos, please stand up and respond? This does not sound
like the real Chowigan. The real Chowigan is mature and a bit more complex in
articulation and thinking. This "Chowigan" sounds like a 12 yr.-old kid who
had just hit puberty and hasn't gotten his hormones under control yet.
>Mai Na
Sorry if I wrote something that might have offended you. I just can't stand it
when I see someone brag about their ethnic and their leaders. How great they
are and the Lao people should be grateful to their leader. Without their great
leader, the Lao people wouldn't be able to come into the USA.
It is better for us to work together, there are many things could be
accomplish, we still have a long road ahead of us. We all want the best for our
people. There is no need to brag about and being childish that my leader is
better than your. The end result is that we have became refugee. While those
who are still back in Laos are living in miseries and still fighting for their
daily lives.
My Sananikone is better than your Van Pao!
Chowigan
P.S.: Don't you think it is childish?
Friley 2420 Lab User
Howdy Mr. Hmong,
Are you the one who wants to rumble with moi? If so, I'll be glad to
improvide and all you have to do is say "yes". You know, I have been
fishing for the abnormal Hmongs-with bigger head than normal-but found
Hawj Lauj who is too nice for me, Babefall who I have mildly shut him up
and hope he does not take it personally. Now, I found you and hope you
stick around-at least when the dezziness is gone from your head. If any
more Hmongs who do not have the chance to speak to moi, please line
yourself up in the orderly fashion and think about having a good shot at
me. This is my invitation and I hope you all accept mine with grace.
drbobb...@hotmail.com wrote:
> RE: Mr Arunkhone:
>
> Laotions during the war wanted neutrality Like Priminister Phouma Savana
> and majority of the Laotion during the Vietnam War, Secret War of Laos.
If you do really want to rumble with moi, you should at least know the
person's name. His name is Souvanna Phouma. Furthermore, what can I say
about anyone who does not get use to call himself Laotian but Hmong and
it shows in their spelling ability-Laotian not Laotion.
Not
> many Laotion join General Vang Pao in an effort to stop the HoChi Ming Trial
> in miliatary region Two in northern Laos. The bulk of that war rested on The
> HMONG people.
I am very happy to know that not too many Lao were moronic then as to
follow your godfather's footstep.
Don't disrespect Gen.Vang Pao for if it was not for him no
> Laotion woul be welcomed into the USA nor would you be.
Please show me the document to substantiate your claim. Here, all you
show is your stupidity and behaving like a Syamese as cited by Chowigan.
Be Greatful, for the
> only people recongized in US CONGRESS during the SECRET WAR OF LAOS are the
> Hmongs and NOT LAOTION.
Why should I be grateful to you all shorty goldteeth (Sam's word)? On
the contrary, you all should be grateful to the Lao people whom have not
really treated your people with any disrespect in the past.
As for the recognition of the Meo by Congress, that ain't absolutely
amaze me. Why? Well, typically one does brag about one's own dog as how
good he is. Here, the Hmongs were the CIA's dog and they brag about it.
And that's all there is to it...sit you shorty goldteeth sit...Oops I
mean...sit Ubu sit...you stupid dog.
Be most graceous to Gen. Vang Pao and his HMONG
> fellows for you are not in communist LAOS today . Don't mock our leader ever.
> It is okay to mock your own but never others.
I have the right to mock anyone who has been recognized by the RL army
and government and Vang Pao was in the RL army not the Hmong army, was
he? If he were the private citizen, I would not have said anything about
the thug. In fact, your godfather was condemned to death by our supreme
court and he'll remain so. Thus, there ain't nothing your shorty
goldteeth people can do about it, is there?
Chat with you later,
Chep
Lao Houn Mai
Subject: Re: The Generals.
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:12:02 EST
From: Daopakay <Daop...@aol.com>
Daopakay wrote:
> Sabaidee
>
> If you would like to post to response just fine with me. The story that I
> wrote is right and it's true. And you want to know how neutral was splited.
> I will give you a comments about those.
>
> Col. Daoune was bribed by the left because he thought he would gain better. At
> the first hand General Kongle did not know that Col. Douane was on the
> Vietnamese until Deuan order to shoot C-130 (American down) he took
> some forces fled with him.
In October 1962 after the formation of a coalition government the Pathet
Lao started blocking the resupply of the neutralist forces, and
therefore Souvannaphouma requested supplies from the US to avoid
upsetting the delicate political balance and forcing the neutralist
forces into the left wing camp again. On 27th November "a neutralist
antiaircraft artillery unit, acting on the orders of a procommunist
officer, shot down an Air America C-46 transport plane. Kongle was
outraged by the treachery, but was prevented by the Pathet Lao from
taking any action against the gunners. Shortly afterwards about 400
neutralists defected to the Pathet Lao." Presumably the procommunist
officer was Deuan? According to Stevenson, renegade neutralists shot
down another Air America aircraft on 6th January 1963. Which of these
two were you refering to above?
Why do you maintain that Deuan was bribed and do you have any evidence?
Was he offered more power if he defected?
> Many of Neutral forces got bribed from Vietnamese such as Quinin
> Pholsena. After Douane fled to Commie General Kongle assigned Col. Sing
> Chanthakouman to be in chief of Neutral Forces and right guard of General
> Kongle was Capt. Kethsana. Quinin who was neutral seat at Lao congress was
> bribed by NV and killed Kethsana. who is the right guard of General Kongle
Is there any evidence that it was Quinin who killed Kethsana, or ordered
the killing? Wasn't Quinin killed as a simple tit-for-tat response to
the killing of Kethsana by unknown communist agents? Or was Quinin known
to be responsible?
> (1993 the court in Vientiane still brought up the case of killing Quinin sued
> by daughter of Quinin in Vientiane against Col. Sing Chanthakouman who was in
> Chief of Neutral forces, lately NOT guilty because who killed Quinin is one
> Sgt."I don't want to mention the name" was not Col. Sing order).
Who was the Sgt?
> About the right wing bribed in neutral forces is Col. Somphet Sothsavanh
> (Living in France) stationed in Vang Vieng. This one was bribed by the 5th
What was Somphet bribed to do, and why? How do you know he was bribed?
Was he bribed, or was he persuaded?
> region just after General Kongle requested Indonesian Camouflage and just
> after CIA dropped some helps to neutral forces in Vang Vieng.
What was the Indonesian Camouflage? What did Somphet do?
> The last part of general Kongle deported was a trap by Souvanna Phouma ordered
> General Kongle official visit to Thailand when he arrived there and order to
> detain general Kongle for 27 days in Lopburi.
SURELY not Souvannaphouma? This must be wrong. Souvannaphouma and Kongle
were the only ones who genuinely wanted and tried to solve the problems
instead of just squabbling over power, opium and gold. Souvannaphouma
has been a target for a lot of criticism, but he tried his best to steer
a centrist course despite constantly being undermined and manipulated by
the US. Both the left and the right wanted to undermine Souvannaphouma
and Kongle. When was this incident?
> (Those were the actions of LRG
> did to Gen. Kongle who is honest to the people and who is deserved for the
> Laos in Neutrality such in United Nations recognized Laos is neutral country).
I absolutely agree.
> He escaped from the detention camp in Lopburi and secretly went to Vientiane
> and all the 5th region already ordered to kill Gen. Kongle if he present in
> VTN. (Those are lot of evidences from who received that ordered from Gen. Kou
> still living today). Lucky which General Kongle reached Indonesia Embassy in
> VTN. then he called President CIC as Mr. Hafstasing to active about LRG
> actions after all United Nations prepared the airplane to transport Gen.
> Kongle fled to Indonesia in late 1966 Which was last left Laos of Gen. Kongle.
> After Gen. Kongle deported many people form the left and the right claimed the
> owner of Neutrality of Laos and pulled back the neutrality to the table again
> in 1973 which Gen. Kongle did not know about and did not involve about.
>
> Lot of people claimed that Kongle is the leftist. Those're totally wrong
> because they thought only the time at Khang Khay because all three paties were
> there and monitored by CIC which Gen. Vang Pao, CIA and the rightist dislike
> about neutrality of Laos. Playing on the politics must be focus on minimum of
> casualty but the right and the left never focus on those. Who were death in
> that war? who was benifit?
Yes, Kongle's coup was not about left and right but about Laos and
foreign interference.
Who benefited? The extreme right and the most corrupt (but not the
idealist) elements of the left. Who lost? All the Lao people.
> Mr. Freelao I think. Have you ever read about Protocols on the treaty Junly
> 23, 1962 at Geneva? Those Protocols which all Laotians should be preserved
> and all of those were agreed by Untied Nations. The LRG doesn't want Laotians
> to know about our rights which they signed at United Nations all agreed on
> those terms. To recognize that treaty which signed by 14 countries are:
> 1. The United stated of America.
> 2. Canada
> 3. France
> 4. The United Kingdom
> 5. Poland
> 6. India
> 7. China
> 8. Soviet Union
> 9. Burma
> 10.Thailand
> 11. Cambodia
> 12. North Vietnam
> 13. South Vietnam
> 14. Laos signed by Quinin Pholsena.
>
> I have that treaty on my hands and if our SCL wants to read what we suppose to
> know and understand I will publish that. I will wait until if there are any
> interested on that. I'm not afraid to publish that because I'm entitled to
> that treaty and still active on those issued.
I've read that treaty. Please go ahead and publish it. The more people
know, the more they will understand.
> Right now, Commie in Laos is breaking the treaty, too because on that treaty
> which was stated very clear that " Not allow any country military stations in
> Laos otherwise those countries were against United Nations, (Geneva Accords)
> of this treaty." Mr. Freelao. At the moment, the Vietnamese who signed that
> treaty broke the Accords. What do you think?
> Hak Phaeng
> Daopakay
As far as the 1954 and 1962 treaties are concerned, yes the Vietnamese
are breaking those treaties now, but also every single party who signed
the treaties broke them. The most significant fact about these two
treaties is that the countries who claimed they were determined to
support democracy were just lying and did not care about the suffering
of the Lao people. Why did they sign a treaty guaranteeing the
neutrality of Laos if they did not intend to respect it?
As far as the 1973 treaty is concerned, the US just wanted to back out
and they did not care what happened to Laos, while Vietnam just intended
to break the treaty even more blatently than the previous two, and take
advantage of the US withdrawal.
The Vietnamese breaches of the 1973 agreement are most significant to
the legal status of the current Vientiane regime.
Daopakay
>From: Fre...@waw.pdi.net*** (Lao Houn Mai)
> From: Daopakay <Daop...@aol.com>
>
>Daopakay wrote:
>
>> Sabaidee
>>
>> If you would like to post to response just fine with me. The story that I
>> wrote is right and it's true. And you want to know how neutral was
>splited.
>> I will give you a comments about those.
>>
>> Col. Daoune was bribed by the left because he thought he would gain better.
>At
>> the first hand General Kongle did not know that Col. Douane was on the
>> Vietnamese until Deuan order to shoot C-130 (American down) he took
>> some forces fled with him
>In October 1962 after the formation of a coalition government the Pathet
>Lao started blocking the resupply of the neutralist forces, and
>therefore Souvannaphouma requested supplies from the US to avoid
>upsetting the delicate political balance and forcing the neutralist
>forces into the left wing camp again. On 27th November "a neutralist
>antiaircraft artillery unit, acting on the orders of a procommunist
>officer, shot down an Air America C-46 transport plane. Kongle was
>outraged by the treachery, but was prevented by the Pathet Lao from
>taking any action against the gunners. Shortly afterwards about 400
>neutralists defected to the Pathet Lao." Presumably the procommunist
>officer was Deuan? According to Stevenson, renegade neutralists shot
>down another Air America aircraft on 6th January 1963. Which of these
>two were you refering to above?
>
>Why do you maintain that Deuan was bribed and do you have any evidence?
>Was he offered more power if he defected?
It's hard to find the evidence when someone bribed someone during the war. And
who recieved a benifit hardly to mention how much they rerceived money!!!!
It's hard to find the evidence because the MP did not arrest them on that time
and bring to to court then we will get the evidences. In this case, I'm sorry I
don't have the evidences to present you and public. But Col. Douane was
recieved some benifits( money and power from the left). Col. Douane brought
with him was Fa Ngoum Battalion and about a week later The 4th Battalion in
charge of Col. Chieng and Col. Kao. And other battalion was the 1st battalion
in charge of Col. Theip. all fled to Pro-communist.
> Many of Neutral forces got bribed from Vietnamese such as Quinin
>> Pholsena. After Douane fled to Commie General Kongle assigned Col. Sing
>> Chanthakouman to be in chief of Neutral Forces and right guard of General
>> Kongle was Capt. Kethsana. Quinin who was neutral seat at Lao congress was
>> bribed by NV and killed Kethsana. who is the right guard of General Kongle
>Is there any evidence that it was Quinin who killed Kethsana, or ordered
>the killing? Wasn't Quinin killed as a simple tit-for-tat response to
>the killing of Kethsana by unknown communist agents? Or was Quinin known
>to be responsible?
Killing Kethsana was really ordered from Quinin and Col. Douane associated.
But I don't want to stated bring out to public because it will effected someone
already confessed to this matter and still active to those issues.
Killing Quinin was Sgt. Kong. and that Sgt. was killed in XiengKhouang on the
time he was killed is socond Lt. I'm sorry I can NOT pulled out everything to
public it might harm someone who still active in political issue.
>
>> (1993 the court in Vientiane still brought up the case of killing Quinin
>sued
>> by daughter of Quinin in Vientiane against Col. Sing Chanthakouman who was
>in
>> Chief of Neutral forces, lately NOT guilty because who killed Quinin is one
>> Sgt."I don't want to mention the name" was not Col. Sing order).
>
>Who was the Sgt?
I already reply at the above statements.
>> About the right wing bribed in neutral forces is Col. Somphet Sothsavanh
>> (Living in France) stationed in Vang Vieng. This one was bribed by the 5th
>
>
>What was Somphet bribed to do, and why? How do you know he was bribed?
>Was he bribed, or was he persuaded?
It's hard. Mr. Freelao to present evidence when those criminal did not bring
to court. The small piece that we saw the money he received to build a house
at Ban Phone Tong VTN. closed to Gen. Ath Tam' s house and all the rest of
money where did he spent. I think only God knows where the money go!
>> region just after General Kongle requested Indonesian Camouflage and just
All Indonesian Camouflage came at VTN and loaded and Neutral base Dongpa sack
which we call the old French Camp. All those Camouflage had shared with
LRA,too.
>> after CIA dropped some helps to neutral forces in Vang Vieng.
>
>
Those dropped was different from Indonesian. CIA dropped by Jack H. (I can not
mention his last name)
>
>> The last part of general Kongle deported was a trap by Souvanna Phouma
>ordered
>> General Kongle official visit to Thailand when he arrived there and order
>to
>> detain general Kongle for 27 days in Lopburi.
>SURELY not Souvannaphouma? This must be wrong. Souvannaphouma and Kongle
>were the only ones who genuinely wanted and tried to solve the problems
>instead of just squabbling over power, opium and gold. Souvannaphouma
>has been a target for a lot of criticism, but he tried his best to steer
>a centrist course despite constantly being undermined and manipulated by
>the US. Both the left and the right wanted to undermine Souvannaphouma
>and Kongle. When was this incident?
Before a Coup D'etat Souvanna Phoumma was the chief of Laos National Assembly
and promise to clean up the corruption that's why Gen. Kongle took Souvanna
Phoumma to be a Prime Minister but he could not keep his promise and he was
afraid Gen. Kongle would do the second Coup to Souvanna Phoumma That's why he
planned a trap in Thailand then deported Gen. Kongle out. Souvannaphouma is
the one who was big corrupted and broke the promise from Gen. Kongle
I will publish it to SCL soon but I will devide by part because it is very
long. >> Right now, Commie in Laos is breaking the treaty, too because on that
>treaty
>> which was stated very clear that " Not allow any country military stations
>in
>> Laos otherwise those countries were against United Nations, (Geneva
>Accords)
>> of this treaty." Mr. Freelao. At the moment, the Vietnamese who signed
>that
>> treaty broke the Accords. What do you think?
>
>> Hak Phaeng
>> Daopakay
>As far as the 1954 and 1962 treaties are concerned, yes the Vietnamese
>are breaking those treaties now, but also every single party who signed
>the treaties broke them. The most significant fact about these two
>treaties is that the countries who claimed they were determined to
>support democracy were just lying and did not care about the suffering
>of the Lao people. Why did they sign a treaty guaranteeing the
>neutrality of Laos if they did not intend to respect it?
I agree on you Why Vietnamese signed that treaty if they are not respect it.
>As far as the 1973 treaty is concerned, the US just wanted to back out
>and they did not care what happened to Laos, while Vietnam just intended
>to break the treaty even more blatently than the previous two, and take
>advantage of the US withdrawal.
>
>The Vietnamese breaches of the 1973 agreement are most significant to
>the legal status of the current Vientiane regime.
I'm sorry I can not write the all subjects in here.
Mr. Free lao I'm sorry I can not answer to the questions. Was I there? And
why I knew it so much about this issue.
Hak Phaeng
Daopakay